Expressions researched:
"Buddha"
|"Buddha's"
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī was introduced...
Chandobhai: By Buddha.
Prabhupāda: ...by Śaṅkara.
Chandobhai: Śaṅkara and Jains mostly.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvāda...
Dr. Patel: Jains are, they are... They don't believe in God. Jains are... Their soul is as long as their body. If that leg is cut, the soul's leg is cut.
Prabhupāda: No. Without, without going to other philosophies, best thing is to stick to your own philosophy and try to understand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, those who will eat meat, to bring them gradually to the platform of perfection. That is allowed.
Dr. Patel: We are a Vaiṣṇava..., as Vaiṣṇavas we are not allowed to do this.
Prabhupāda: You cannot stop that. Suppose you..., there are so many nonviolence philosophies, Buddha, Jains, but have they been able to stop this meat-eating?
Dr. Patel: The Vaiṣṇavas, they are to only perform those yajñas called...
Prabhupāda: Yajñas for satisfaction of Viṣṇu.
Indian man (3): And that, that is also... Viṣṇu-yajña is there, there is no sacrifice of animals.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you do not know, there is.
Indian man (4): Yajña is not necessary at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (4): Yajña is only for getting, to gain certain aims.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavatam you'll find the dākṣa-yajña, dākṣa-yajña. Dākṣa-yajña. There was a goat, and that goat was cut and it was added to the head of Dakṣa Mahārāja.
Indian man (4): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is described in the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you don't believe in meat-eating, can you stop?
Indian man (3): I don't want to stop. For your followers yes, you say don't eat meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): Like that he has told us, "Don't eat meat."
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Indian man (3): You don't want to eat, do yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): So don't call it Buddhist.
Prabhupāda: But that doesn't... No, this is Buddhist philosophy; you do not know it.
Indian man (3): I'm not talking about Vaiṣṇava philosophy and Buddhist...
Prabhupāda: This is Buddhist philosophy. That even if the Buddha, Lord Buddha said, "Even if it is recommended in the Vedas, I don't accept Vedas." That is Buddhist philosophy.
Indian man (4): He accepts Veda. He said the next moment. Now we read it, I've read it before you.
Prabhupāda: You'll see, it is stated, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam is the Vedas. There is recommendation of sacrifice, but you have decried them.
Indian man (4): He has not decried them. Devatam, devata te ta vi pranam sadvinam ca satam api, vedanam ca na kartavyam nindā svadya na ca tapi.(?)
Prabhupāda: Hm. So this is nindā. If you say, "Even if it is recommended in the Vedas," that is nindā. If you say, "Even if it is recommended by the Vedas," that means Vedas are mistaken. You are right. You do not know what is the purpose of Vedas.
Indian man (4): What is the purpose of Vedas?
Prabhupāda: The purpose is gradually to bring them...
Indian man (4): But he...
Prabhupāda: ...not that all of a sudden that you say "No, you cannot eat."
Prabhupāda: So the testing method is mentioned there, that the avatāra means, "This avatāra means his feature of body is this, his work is like this, he will come on such and such." Just like Kalki avatāra. Kalki avatāra, it is mentioned in the śāstra... Although He will come after four lakhs of years, it is stated in the śāstra that in Sambal... Sambal, in the house of Viṣṇu-josi, Kalki-avatāra will come.
Dr. Patel: In central provinces.
Prabhupāda: Not central provinces. Not mentioned there. Sambal it is.
Dr. Patel: In northern part of India.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also not mentioned. Simply Sambal. And Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago, and there is also mention of Lord Buddha's name. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati. This word is used, "in future." So this is śāstra, that even the incarnation will come four lakhs of years after or 2,500 years after, still, there is mention. His feature, his work—everything is there. Why should we accept a false imitation unless it is corroborated by the śāstra? You cannot say everyone is realized soul because he recommends something. No. We have to corroborate.
Acyutānanda: In the last part of Kṛṣṇa Book, Mahā-Viṣṇu says that Arjuna is of the capacity of Nara-nārāyaṇa. So they are avatāras also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Acyutānanda: But as Arjuna he acts as an ordinary jīva?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are different types of śaktyāveṣa avatāra. So when an ordinary jīva is specially empowered, he is called śaktya aveṣa avatāra, śatktyaveṣa avatāra, vibhūti. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam. He is living entity, but especially empowered. Just like for certain business I give sometimes somebody power of attorney, that "He will do this. He will sign for me." Like that. He is also one of the disciples, but for particular purpose, he is given the power of attorney. In this way when a living entity is empowered specifically to do something, that is called śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Aveṣa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra. That is explained in the... These are explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (break) ...śaktya. Mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. So śaktyāveṣa avatāra is not viṣṇu-tattva. He is jīva-tattva. So the Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha, they come within the jīva-tattva especial power.
Bhāgavata: They are śaktyāveṣa avatāras.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The question is the Old Testament, you say that there was the word "murder." Why you have changed? You accept Old Testament or reject?
Satsvarūpa: Accept the statement should be "murder."
Prabhupāda: But why it is "kill"?
Pañcadraviḍa: Wrong translation.
Prabhupāda: Wrong translation.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: :They are fools, all set of fools. Useless. See one thing and write one thing. Then you are not perfect. Bhrama pramāda. You commit mistake. Therefore your instruction is useless, useless. Because you commit mistake, therefore your instruction is useless. And that actually they are doing. As it is suitable, they are changing the words of Bible. They are useless. Things which are changeable, that cannot be accepted as scripture. Scriptural injunction means you cannot change. Just like we accept the Vedic scripture but don't change it. That example I have given many times. Because Lord Buddha wanted to change Vedic literature, therefore he is rejected. Although Lord Buddha is so... We worship him as incarnation of..., but he was rejected. You cannot change. Immediately you are rejected.
Prabhupāda: Well, Buddhists, they do not believe in God.
Cardinal and Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, Buddhist philosophy is atheistic philosophy.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Theoretically yes, but practically, do you think they are atheistic, practically? Because...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our... Yes. Theoretically atheistic, but because they believe in Lord Buddha, they are theistic. Because we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Also some of them, they believe in... They think Buddha is a god, and they are believers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddha is God. That is stated. You will find?
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Thank you. Now, I'm still concerned with two of the incarnation which have... Because for me this is the doctrine of personalism and personal highest form of God. Now, among two of the incarnations, there is Kapila and Buddha. And Kapila is practically, finally, the classical Sāṅkhya-ist atheist. How could it be?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is imitation Kapila, and there is... Original Kapila is Devahūti, son of Devahūti, Kapila.
Prof. Regamay: It's what we can't find in Bhagavad-gītā with...
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Kapila, this Kapila is atheist Kapila. He's a different Kapila. Original Kapila is the son of Devahūti, son of Kardama Muni and Devahūti. That is described in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, God. Kapila. And actually, he enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy. And this sāṅkhya philosophy which is known in Europe amongst the European scholars, that is the atheist Kapila. It is not the original Kapila.
Prof. Regamay: So that's not a true Kapila.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prof. Regamay: And Buddha?
Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra. Read, read that chapter.
Prof. Regamay: Yet I still think of this problem why Lord Kṛṣṇa had to have an incarnation like Buddha who was teaching atheist doctrine and no...
Prabhupāda: That is described. I have described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Find out, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, first part.
Prof. Regamay: I read it in your commentary to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that he was, he didn't need to preach the worship of God because He was Himself God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Regamay: But He doesn't say it in the text.
Prabhupāda: That is described in the SB.., sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Sammohāya, just to bewilder the atheist class of men. The atheist class of men, we're advocating "There is no God." So He appeared before them... And they were killing animals like anything. So Buddhadeva inaugurated the non-violence. So therefore He is God Himself, and He is teaching, "There is no God." This is rather cheating.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Not teaching, but cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.
Prof. Regamay: Now there are some schools of Buddhists who are worshiping Buddha like a God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is God. He is God. They don't accept Buddha as incarnation of God. But from Vedas we understand that He is incarnation of God.
Prof. Regamay: But he brought to the world the ahiṁsā, but I think ahiṁsā appears already in the Bhagavad-gītā. But there was ahiṁsā also by the Jains.
Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras.
Prabhupāda: So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning.
Prabhupāda: Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.
Prof. Regamay: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.
Prof. Regamay: I have been struck in Ceylon on seeing in Buddhist temples, Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu, yes. There are in Penang. Penang also I have seen. They admit that Buddha is the incarnation of Viṣṇu. That is admitted in the śāstra. That means these Ceylonese or Penangese, originally they knew that Buddha is incarnation of Viṣṇu. In Ceylon you have seen?
Prof. Regamay: I have seen.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, I have seen in Penang also, Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu-mūrti.
Prof. Regamay: And but he said also, the doctrine of Buddha, that man has not person, doesn't exist as person. He's only some moving elements, physical and psychical and nothing else.
Prabhupāda: Person. He is person. He is person. Lord Buddha is person.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, but Brahman is not person. Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: He says that Buddha's philosophy did not admit a spiritual personal identity to the living being, that Buddhist philosophy was that we are simply this combination of chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is all right.
Prof. Regamay: Chemical, psychical, but no continuous, no ātman.
Prabhupāda: That is śūnyavādī. We say also.
Prof. Regamay: So they are... I think it's... I must say that when comparing different religions, I see that for instance, what I find here...
Prabhupāda: There is no different religion. As soon as one tries to understand different religion, it is to be concluded that he does not know what is religion. That religion cannot be different. Religion is one. God is one. And the order given by God, that is religion. But "different" means according to time and circumstances... Just like Lord Buddha, he is giving the same religion. He is God, incarnation of God. He is asking, "Just obey Me." The same philosophy is being taught by Kṛṣṇa, "Surrender unto Me." That is religion. Buddha also says "Surrender unto Me. Obey Me." So that is religion. Yes. So the religion is... One who knows God and surrenders to Him, that is religion, and anything, that is all cheating. Anything else, that is all cheating. That is not religion. This is religion. God is one, and surrender to God, that is religion. That's all. You take any religion, it doesn't matter. If one has learned what is God and how to surrender to Him, that is religion.
Prof. Regamay: But I am struck that, for instance, for us in the West the idea of personal God is strongly rooted in our consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it. Therefore stop... (break) ...light, that's all. So much. Just like Lord Buddha. He did not explain anything about God. He said, "Just obey me and stop this animal killing." Therefore this much sufficient for him, that's all. The lower class students, one plus two equal to three, two plus two..., that much mathematics, not higher mathematics. Higher mathematics is not possible to understand.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.
Prabhupāda: That's it. But there is higher mathematics. Not one plus two or two plus three, no. There is still higher mathematics. So that is not meant for them. That will be explained, explained in the Bhagavad..., ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Those who are expert, or sufficient, insufficient knowledge, they cannot understand the Supreme Absolute. That is also confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vedas and scriptures are there, differently, according to different conditions. Now, what Jesus Christ was teaching the people? You can understand. The first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." So what class of men they were, just you can understand. Otherwise, why he is first of all telling "Thou shalt not kill"? The Mohammed also said, "From this day, there is no sex with your mother." So just see what class of men. So according to class of men, there should be teaching. Similarly, Buddha also, Lord Buddha said, "No, no, there is no God. Just try to understand me. You obey Me." "Yes, sir." It has to be done like that.
| Page Title: | Buddha (Conversations, 1974 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=45, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 45 |