Expressions researched:
"Buddha"
|"Buddha's"
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī was introduced...
Chandobhai: By Buddha.
Prabhupāda: ...by Śaṅkara.
Chandobhai: Śaṅkara and Jains mostly.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvāda...
Dr. Patel: Jains are, they are... They don't believe in God. Jains are... Their soul is as long as their body. If that leg is cut, the soul's leg is cut.
Prabhupāda: No. Without, without going to other philosophies, best thing is to stick to your own philosophy and try to understand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, those who will eat meat, to bring them gradually to the platform of perfection. That is allowed.
Dr. Patel: We are a Vaiṣṇava..., as Vaiṣṇavas we are not allowed to do this.
Prabhupāda: You cannot stop that. Suppose you..., there are so many nonviolence philosophies, Buddha, Jains, but have they been able to stop this meat-eating?
Dr. Patel: The Vaiṣṇavas, they are to only perform those yajñas called...
Prabhupāda: Yajñas for satisfaction of Viṣṇu.
Indian man (3): And that, that is also... Viṣṇu-yajña is there, there is no sacrifice of animals.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you do not know, there is.
Indian man (4): Yajña is not necessary at all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (4): Yajña is only for getting, to gain certain aims.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhāgavatam you'll find the dākṣa-yajña, dākṣa-yajña. Dākṣa-yajña. There was a goat, and that goat was cut and it was added to the head of Dakṣa Mahārāja.
Indian man (4): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is described in the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you don't believe in meat-eating, can you stop?
Indian man (3): I don't want to stop. For your followers yes, you say don't eat meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): Like that he has told us, "Don't eat meat."
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Indian man (3): You don't want to eat, do yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (3): So don't call it Buddhist.
Prabhupāda: But that doesn't... No, this is Buddhist philosophy; you do not know it.
Indian man (3): I'm not talking about Vaiṣṇava philosophy and Buddhist...
Prabhupāda: This is Buddhist philosophy. That even if the Buddha, Lord Buddha said, "Even if it is recommended in the Vedas, I don't accept Vedas." That is Buddhist philosophy.
Indian man (4): He accepts Veda. He said the next moment. Now we read it, I've read it before you.
Prabhupāda: You'll see, it is stated, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam is the Vedas. There is recommendation of sacrifice, but you have decried them.
Indian man (4): He has not decried them. Devatam, devata te ta vi pranam sadvinam ca satam api, vedanam ca na kartavyam nindā svadya na ca tapi.(?)
Prabhupāda: Hm. So this is nindā. If you say, "Even if it is recommended in the Vedas," that is nindā. If you say, "Even if it is recommended by the Vedas," that means Vedas are mistaken. You are right. You do not know what is the purpose of Vedas.
Indian man (4): What is the purpose of Vedas?
Prabhupāda: The purpose is gradually to bring them...
Indian man (4): But he...
Prabhupāda: ...not that all of a sudden that you say "No, you cannot eat."
Prabhupāda: So the testing method is mentioned there, that the avatāra means, "This avatāra means his feature of body is this, his work is like this, he will come on such and such." Just like Kalki avatāra. Kalki avatāra, it is mentioned in the śāstra... Although He will come after four lakhs of years, it is stated in the śāstra that in Sambal... Sambal, in the house of Viṣṇu-josi, Kalki-avatāra will come.
Dr. Patel: In central provinces.
Prabhupāda: Not central provinces. Not mentioned there. Sambal it is.
Dr. Patel: In northern part of India.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also not mentioned. Simply Sambal. And Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago, and there is also mention of Lord Buddha's name. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati. This word is used, "in future." So this is śāstra, that even the incarnation will come four lakhs of years after or 2,500 years after, still, there is mention. His feature, his work—everything is there. Why should we accept a false imitation unless it is corroborated by the śāstra? You cannot say everyone is realized soul because he recommends something. No. We have to corroborate.
Acyutānanda: In the last part of Kṛṣṇa Book, Mahā-Viṣṇu says that Arjuna is of the capacity of Nara-nārāyaṇa. So they are avatāras also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Acyutānanda: But as Arjuna he acts as an ordinary jīva?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are different types of śaktyāveṣa avatāra. So when an ordinary jīva is specially empowered, he is called śaktya aveṣa avatāra, śatktyaveṣa avatāra, vibhūti. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvam. He is living entity, but especially empowered. Just like for certain business I give sometimes somebody power of attorney, that "He will do this. He will sign for me." Like that. He is also one of the disciples, but for particular purpose, he is given the power of attorney. In this way when a living entity is empowered specifically to do something, that is called śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Aveṣa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nāhe nāma pracāra. That is explained in the... These are explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (break) ...śaktya. Mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam. So śaktyāveṣa avatāra is not viṣṇu-tattva. He is jīva-tattva. So the Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha, they come within the jīva-tattva especial power.
Bhāgavata: They are śaktyāveṣa avatāras.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The question is the Old Testament, you say that there was the word "murder." Why you have changed? You accept Old Testament or reject?
Satsvarūpa: Accept the statement should be "murder."
Prabhupāda: But why it is "kill"?
Pañcadraviḍa: Wrong translation.
Prabhupāda: Wrong translation.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: :They are fools, all set of fools. Useless. See one thing and write one thing. Then you are not perfect. Bhrama pramāda. You commit mistake. Therefore your instruction is useless, useless. Because you commit mistake, therefore your instruction is useless. And that actually they are doing. As it is suitable, they are changing the words of Bible. They are useless. Things which are changeable, that cannot be accepted as scripture. Scriptural injunction means you cannot change. Just like we accept the Vedic scripture but don't change it. That example I have given many times. Because Lord Buddha wanted to change Vedic literature, therefore he is rejected. Although Lord Buddha is so... We worship him as incarnation of..., but he was rejected. You cannot change. Immediately you are rejected.
Prabhupāda: Well, Buddhists, they do not believe in God.
Cardinal and Monsignor Verrozano: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, Buddhist philosophy is atheistic philosophy.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Theoretically yes, but practically, do you think they are atheistic, practically? Because...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our... Yes. Theoretically atheistic, but because they believe in Lord Buddha, they are theistic. Because we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God, Kṛṣṇa.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Also some of them, they believe in... They think Buddha is a god, and they are believers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Buddha is God. That is stated. You will find?
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Thank you. Now, I'm still concerned with two of the incarnation which have... Because for me this is the doctrine of personalism and personal highest form of God. Now, among two of the incarnations, there is Kapila and Buddha. And Kapila is practically, finally, the classical Sāṅkhya-ist atheist. How could it be?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is imitation Kapila, and there is... Original Kapila is Devahūti, son of Devahūti, Kapila.
Prof. Regamay: It's what we can't find in Bhagavad-gītā with...
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Kapila, this Kapila is atheist Kapila. He's a different Kapila. Original Kapila is the son of Devahūti, son of Kardama Muni and Devahūti. That is described in the Third Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, God. Kapila. And actually, he enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy. And this sāṅkhya philosophy which is known in Europe amongst the European scholars, that is the atheist Kapila. It is not the original Kapila.
Prof. Regamay: So that's not a true Kapila.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prof. Regamay: And Buddha?
Prabhupāda: Buddha is śaktyāveśa-avatāra. We accept Lord Jesus Christ also, śaktyāveśa-avatāra; Mohammed, śaktyāveśa-avatāra. Śaktyāveśa-avatāra means a living entity especially empowered and he preaches the philosophy on behalf... That is called śaktyāveśa-avatāra. There are different types of avatāras. Guṇāvatāra, manvantarāvatāra, yugāvatāra, līlāvatāra, śaktyāveśāvatāra, like that. They are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. About avatāras. You find out Teachings of Lord Caitanya, avatāras. Innumerable avatāras. Come here. Find out this chapter. Avatāra saṅkhyeyaḥ. It is compared, just like in the river, the waves are flowing. You cannot count, or in the... What is that? Avatāra. Read, read that chapter.
Prof. Regamay: Yet I still think of this problem why Lord Kṛṣṇa had to have an incarnation like Buddha who was teaching atheist doctrine and no...
Prabhupāda: That is described. I have described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Find out, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, first part.
Prof. Regamay: I read it in your commentary to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that he was, he didn't need to preach the worship of God because He was Himself God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Regamay: But He doesn't say it in the text.
Prabhupāda: That is described in the SB.., sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24). Sammohāya, just to bewilder the atheist class of men. The atheist class of men, we're advocating "There is no God." So He appeared before them... And they were killing animals like anything. So Buddhadeva inaugurated the non-violence. So therefore He is God Himself, and He is teaching, "There is no God." This is rather cheating.
Prof. Regamay: Yes. Not teaching, but cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.
Prof. Regamay: Now there are some schools of Buddhists who are worshiping Buddha like a God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is God. He is God. They don't accept Buddha as incarnation of God. But from Vedas we understand that He is incarnation of God.
Prof. Regamay: But he brought to the world the ahiṁsā, but I think ahiṁsā appears already in the Bhagavad-gītā. But there was ahiṁsā also by the Jains.
Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras.
Prabhupāda: So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning.
Prabhupāda: Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.
Prof. Regamay: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.
Prof. Regamay: I have been struck in Ceylon on seeing in Buddhist temples, Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu, yes. There are in Penang. Penang also I have seen. They admit that Buddha is the incarnation of Viṣṇu. That is admitted in the śāstra. That means these Ceylonese or Penangese, originally they knew that Buddha is incarnation of Viṣṇu. In Ceylon you have seen?
Prof. Regamay: I have seen.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, I have seen in Penang also, Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu-mūrti.
Prof. Regamay: And but he said also, the doctrine of Buddha, that man has not person, doesn't exist as person. He's only some moving elements, physical and psychical and nothing else.
Prabhupāda: Person. He is person. He is person. Lord Buddha is person.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, but Brahman is not person. Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yogeśvara: He says that Buddha's philosophy did not admit a spiritual personal identity to the living being, that Buddhist philosophy was that we are simply this combination of chemicals.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is all right.
Prof. Regamay: Chemical, psychical, but no continuous, no ātman.
Prabhupāda: That is śūnyavādī. We say also.
Prof. Regamay: So they are... I think it's... I must say that when comparing different religions, I see that for instance, what I find here...
Prabhupāda: There is no different religion. As soon as one tries to understand different religion, it is to be concluded that he does not know what is religion. That religion cannot be different. Religion is one. God is one. And the order given by God, that is religion. But "different" means according to time and circumstances... Just like Lord Buddha, he is giving the same religion. He is God, incarnation of God. He is asking, "Just obey Me." The same philosophy is being taught by Kṛṣṇa, "Surrender unto Me." That is religion. Buddha also says "Surrender unto Me. Obey Me." So that is religion. Yes. So the religion is... One who knows God and surrenders to Him, that is religion, and anything, that is all cheating. Anything else, that is all cheating. That is not religion. This is religion. God is one, and surrender to God, that is religion. That's all. You take any religion, it doesn't matter. If one has learned what is God and how to surrender to Him, that is religion.
Prof. Regamay: But I am struck that, for instance, for us in the West the idea of personal God is strongly rooted in our consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it. Therefore stop... (break) ...light, that's all. So much. Just like Lord Buddha. He did not explain anything about God. He said, "Just obey me and stop this animal killing." Therefore this much sufficient for him, that's all. The lower class students, one plus two equal to three, two plus two..., that much mathematics, not higher mathematics. Higher mathematics is not possible to understand.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.
Prabhupāda: That's it. But there is higher mathematics. Not one plus two or two plus three, no. There is still higher mathematics. So that is not meant for them. That will be explained, explained in the Bhagavad..., ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Those who are expert, or sufficient, insufficient knowledge, they cannot understand the Supreme Absolute. That is also confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vedas and scriptures are there, differently, according to different conditions. Now, what Jesus Christ was teaching the people? You can understand. The first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." So what class of men they were, just you can understand. Otherwise, why he is first of all telling "Thou shalt not kill"? The Mohammed also said, "From this day, there is no sex with your mother." So just see what class of men. So according to class of men, there should be teaching. Similarly, Buddha also, Lord Buddha said, "No, no, there is no God. Just try to understand me. You obey Me." "Yes, sir." It has to be done like that.
Prabhupāda: No, so far we know, Lord Buddha is considered as incarnation of God. He was sympathetic with the animal-killing. So he wanted to stop this animal-killing. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says he thinks that Buddha was just a man who was searching how to solve the problems of death and life, and when he got some experience he preached this message.
Karandhara: Yes, the Zen school don't accept the preeminence of the personality of Buddha. They say Buddha is just a state of mind, and various men in history have attained that state of mind, that no one particular man was the Buddha, set apart from everyone else.
Prabhupāda: At least, he set the example before others. That is not wonderful, but he set the example. Therefore he is original Buddha.
Pṛthu Putra: He says he doesn't give any special meaning to Buddha. Sometimes Buddha is with them, sometimes Buddha is a concept of God like the Christianity they call God, or Buddha is all this disciplic succession. He doesn't give any special meaning to the word Buddha.
Prabhupāda: No, no, buddha, actually buddha means knowledge, "one who knows," that is the meaning. So that is existing always. Now, we are talking your (sic:) Jain Buddha. Jain Buddha. No? What is the...?
Karandhara: Zen. Zen's a later development. The school of Zen started...
Prabhupāda: So we are trying to study this Zen Buddha. Buddha means, ordinarily, knowledge. Budhā bhāva-saman...
Prabhupāda: We pray Lord Buddha: Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. "My Lord, You, for the time being, You are decrying the Vedic authority."
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Prabhupāda: Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic rituals. Śruti means Vedas. It is learned by hearing. Why He decried the Vedic rituals? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. You are so much compassionate by seeing animals sacrificed. Animal Killing. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Ghātam means killing, so He wanted to stop this animal killing, sinful life. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. My Lord, You have appeared now as Lord Buddha, I offer my respectful obeisances unto you.
Lady (2): I want to ask you. What does it (indistinct) when you, when there's talk of this religion of Kṛṣṇa. Is it before Christ or more?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Yogeśvara: This, the question of religion, did it come before Christ or before Buddha?
Prabhupāda: Yes, 5,000 years ago.
Lady (2): Yes, before.
Prabhupāda: 5,000 years.
Pṛthu Putra: (translates into French)
Lady (2): 5,000 years, eh?
Prabhupāda: This is now. Before that, this was spoken some millions of years ago to the Sun-god.
Prabhupāda: In old age he'll be crippled like that. Then he said that "I am also going to be like that? No. What is the value?" Then he began meditation, how to stop old age. Then he gradually became very great, saintly person, and studied Veda, karma, and by bad karma, one becomes subjected with material tribulation, and the most of the bad karma, he thought, was killing of animals, so he wanted to stop this. That is Buddha's... "Stop animal killing." Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam.
Yogeśvara: He's viṣṇu-tattva?
Prabhupāda: No, he's not viṣṇu-tattva. He's jīva-tattva.
Yogeśvara: Śaktyāveśāvatāra.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Yogeśvara: Now, one thing is that we accept Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa on reference from Vedas, but Buddha denied the value of the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.
Prabhupāda: Buddhists, they, I think, they... Yes, you are right, impersonal. But their philosophy is to stop all kinds of realization, nirvāṇa. Realization they do not want. They want to stop realization, to become zero. Is it not that?
Professor Durckheim: To become? I didn't understand.
Prabhupāda: Zero.
Professor Durckheim: Zero, yes. Well, zero from the point of view of the alter ego, but this zero is everything from the outside. From the point of view of the natural ego it's zero, but once you touch it, it's the plenitude, everything. But it's beyond something and everything, as far as I understand it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is beyond. That beyond is realized, as I explained to you, in different angle of vision. Some, impersonal, without any variety, and some, localized Paramātmā, and some, the Supreme Being. As you are sitting, I am sitting, we are talking, so the Absolute Truth is a person, Supreme Person, Supreme Being, and we approach Him, talk with Him, sit with Him, play with Him. That is Kṛṣṇa realization. First of all, negation of the material varieties, then impersonal realization, then localized realization, then personal realization. Just like a diseased man. First of all cure, then healthy activities. A diseased man has got activities. He also eats, he also sleeps, he also evacuates, but all troublesome. Therefore, being disgusted, he wanted to make everything zero. But if he hears that again sleeping, again eating, again evacuating is healthy life, he thinks it is something like his diseased condition. But healthy life is different from diseased life. So some philosophers, they are trying to negate this diseased condition only, without any realization of healthy life. So I think Buddha philosophy is called nirvāṇa, negation of this diseased condition of life, pains and pleasure. Am I right or wrong?
Professor Durckheim: You are certainly right.
Prabhupāda: The animals, they are not coming to eat your foodstuff, your fruits. They are, rather, producing milk not for drinking themselves. They are giving you, and you have no obligation? The milk produced by the cows, it is taken by the human being. They do not drink it. So they are giving milk. And after death, you are taking their skin. So every way they are serving. The stool, cowdung, we have stacked here. I have seen. There also fertilizer. In so many ways they are giving you service, and you are killing the poor animal. What is the human civilization? Therefore Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal killing first. When there was too much animal killing, the incarnation of Lord Buddha was there to stop animal killing. In Buddhism there is no animal killing. Although they are now killing animals, but originally Buddha religion means non-violence. Also Lord Christ also said, "Thou shalt not kill." And Kṛṣṇa says, ahiṁsā. So in no religion unnecessary killing of animals is allowed. Even in Mohammedans, they are also... Kurvāni. Kurvāni means they can kill animals once in a year in the Mosque. So everywhere animal killing is restricted.
Prabhupāda: So that we say that God has no particular name. But according to His action His name is there. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not the name. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractiveness.
Professor Durckheim: Just as Buddha is not a name.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Because He's man of knowledge, therefore He's called Buddha.
Dr. P. J. Saher: The one who has reached...
Prabhupāda: Buddha. Buddha means one who has perfect knowledge.
Professor Durckheim: Buddha is not a name of somebody, yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like you say, "Hallowed be Thy name." President. President. Now the president has a name but you do not know. But the president must have a name.
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja had very great respect for Muhammad, Jesus Christ... We pray Lord Buddha. Although he preached atheistic philosophy, but we know that he's incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. So a Vaiṣṇava is godly. He is qualified with all good qualities. That is Vaiṣṇava. That is Vaiṣṇava. He knows the value of each and everything. Therefore he's godly. And therefore to offer respect to Vaiṣṇava is also a great qualification.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says he thinks you are right because the example is Buddha and Christ, and so many people follow them.
Prabhupāda: They are perfect, but the followers do not follow the instructions. That does not mean they are imperfect.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said that Buddha achieved perfection outside of joining any particular religion, and that after reading so many things and hearing all different philosophies that it was actually the practice.
Prabhupāda: He changed himself religion.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that... It's some story that when Buddha was about to leave his body, he said that... Anyway, the conclusion of the story is that he also considered himself imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the greatness of Buddha. Because his followers were imperfect, he could not say more than what they could understand. Therefore he said that "I am imperfect." His mission was to stop animal killing. But people are very much accustomed to animal killing, so he did not say higher things that they could not understand. For them, if they could stop animal killing, that was perfection. For primary student, if he understands the mathematics, two plus two equal to four, that is his perfection. That does not mean there is no higher mathematics.
Prabhupāda: So in the dictionary it is stated, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god." He is not a Hindu god; He is God. But He appeared in India. He remained in the Vedic culture. Lord Buddha was also Hindu. And he was in Vedic culture. Later on he spread his own mission. That is also Hindu culture, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. Lord Buddha... keśava dhṛta-buddha. The same Kṛṣṇa, His powerful avatāra, Lord Buddha. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We offer our prayers to Lord Buddha. Christ was also for twelve years in India. He... Christ, the word Christ and kristo, there is similarity. He also propagated love of God. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Just like the Buddhists. They have got their all pilgrimages in India. Because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India. Gaya Pradesh and other, Benares... So India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement.
Paramahaṁsa: But we have seen Lord Buddha, he conquered all of India with ahiṁsā, nonviolence, Lord Buddha.
Prabhupāda: Lord Buddha was not a politician.
Paramahaṁsa: But he conquered India. He became the most...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. He conquered India. If he con-quered India, why he is driven out of India? Nobody is Buddhist now in India. And in Japan, nearly also halfway, so that is (indistinct). Buddha's nonviolence and Gandhi's nonviolence is different.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi's nonviolence all rascaldom because he was dealing in politics. Buddha never entered in politics. So how you can compare with Buddha? His activities are different. His activity of false vibration(?), to stop all kinds of miseries of material world. That was his philosophy. He never dealt in politics. Although he was a king's son, he never dealt in politics. You cannot... This is foolishness. We do not know. We do not study what is Buddha's position, what is Gandhi's position.
Prabhupāda: Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities. And he doesn't care for sinful activities. He got the human form of body, he doesn't care. Saintly persons, they are coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Buddha or Christ. They are warning, "You do not do this." No, they will do it. So who is responsible for his sufferings? He is responsible. And so long he has got this short duration of life, fifty or sixty years or utmost hundred years, he is thinking, "I am free. Whatever I want, I can do," and making life risky. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He is not independent. He knows that. Still, he will declare independence and suffer. This is the position.
Prabhupāda: And that Burmese said, "We don't believe in God." And you don't believe in God. You don't... Why you believe Lord Buddha? He is God.
Amogha: Then he said, "But there is no God mentioned in Buddhism. There is nirvāṇa."
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you worship Buddha. Why?
Amogha: Because he spoke about nirvāṇa. In Burma many people are Buddhist. They say they are Buddhist.
Prabhupāda: Till now, 2,600 years past from the Buddhist community, from other groups and Arabia, very big religionist or philosophers has come. They are all in darkness. It was for the time being. The Buddhist religion was for the time.
Amogha: When Buddha came, did most people follow Him?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: And they stopped their (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes. In their religion animal-killing is strictly forbidden.
Amogha: Did Śaṅkara, did he physically force the Buddhists out of India, by force?
Prabhupāda: No.
Amogha: Or just teaching.
Prabhupāda: By argument, by teaching.
Prabhupāda: Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.
Journalist: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness connected with any other religion? Does it derive from Hinduism or Buddhism?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can call it Hinduism, but actually it does not belong to any "ism." It is a science of understanding God. But it appears like Hindu religion. In that sense Buddha religion is also Hindu religion, because Lord Buddha was a Hindu and he started Buddha religion.
Prabhupāda: ...stated that he came to cheat the atheists. They did not believe in God, but God came as Buddha.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: And he said, "Yes, you are right. There is no God."
Siddha-svarūpa: "Worship me." (laughs) Yes, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that. (break)
Prabhupāda: They were satisfied, "Yes, we shall worship you." (break)
Siddha-svarūpa: The so-called more advanced ones, the teachers, the leaders, the monks, they have a more difficult time because they are, have actually further studied the impersonalist philosophies, so they are more contaminated, whereas the congregation in general, they just, they don't take very seriously the philosophy. They don't get too deeply into it, I don't think. They just like to go to the temple and offer some incense to Lord Buddha and...
Harikeśa: Some of the scholars say that because Lord Buddha is predicted in the Bhāgavatam, that it proves that the Bhāgavatam was written after Lord Buddha appeared.
Prabhupāda: Buddha said like that?
Harikeśa: The scholars, they say...
Brahmānanda: They say it's not possible to predict a person's appearance.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Brahmānanda: They say because it's not possible by ordinary means to predict a person's birth, because Lord Buddha is mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgava...
Prabhupāda: Still there is a science, Bhṛgu-saṁhitā, which will give you prediction of your next birth. Still there is science, Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. He'll give you description of three lives: your past life, present life, and future life. Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. (break) ...Bhāgavata it is said bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati means "He will appear." Why it is not possible? You haven't got that knowledge, that is another thing. But it is possible.
Prabhupāda: There are, in every religion, there are principles. If you don't follow them, then how you become religious? Therefore this is my question. So nobody is following religious principles at the present moment. Therefore practically there is no religion. Everything is finished. We are trying to revive. If you follow religious principle, then it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Mohammedan or Hindu or Buddha. Then you are religious. But if you do not follow any religious principle, then how you become religious?
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say you cannot study Veda because Christ said that there is no other way than himself.
Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, "There is no God." "There is no God," but he is God himself.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of...
Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."
Guest: The reason why I asked was because other spiritual masters such as Jesus and the Buddha have required first that people give all of their possession to the poor rather than give them to a community fund such as the Self-Realization Fellowship, the Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, or any other...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right, because after all... Why to the poor? We say... I do not know whether Jesus Christ, Lord Buddha, said, but generally people are inclined to give to the poor. That, suppose you have got some money. I go: "Sir, give us some contribution for spending for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He will not like very much. And if I go, ask some money, that "I am going to open some hospital for the poor suffering humanity," he will give immediately. Is it not the general tendency? If I say a moneyed man, "Please give me some money. I will spend it for Kṛṣṇa," he will not give. (chuckles) But if I approach him that "I am going to open a charitable institution for the poor," he will give me. So these Jesus Christ and Lord Buddha has said like that just to try to this, make this man dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay for Kṛṣṇa; he will be inclined for the poor. The real purpose is to make him dispossess. Unless he is penniless, he will not take to God. So the real purpose is to make him dispossess. But he will not be inclined to pay his money for God. So let him pay to the poor, that's all. Otherwise, if anyone has got money, he should return it to God because it is God's money. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat (ISO 1).
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). I wanted a rājarṣi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rājarṣi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His movement became very successful when Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Aśoka, Mahārāja Aśoka took it. It requires. And Kṛṣṇa says, rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Harikeśa: This Māyāvādī philosophy, is this...?
Prabhupāda: They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as nāstika. But vedāśraya nāstikya vada. These rascals, they accept Vedas and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bauddha ke adhika: "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the Deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is māyā. And more advanced than these atheists.
Brahmānanda: The Māyāvādīs.
Prabhupāda: More... Not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...last night that they're starting a foundation, Mahatma Gandhi Foundation, here, to teach Indian culture, and he said, "Not just the Bhagavad-gītā, but Indian culture." You mentioned that we should take Indian culture directly from Bhagavad-gītā, not from here, not little from here, and little from there. (break) You give the example, Prabhupāda, that to fight with a declared enemy is very easy, but to fight with someone who is playing as a friend, although he is your enemy, is more difficult.
Prabhupāda: He is more dangerous than Buddha.
Dr. Patel: Extremely difficult, that even man like Gautama Buddha had several times come back to see his child and son when he left his house, more than half a dozen times, come and go, come and go. Finally he closed his eyes and ran away. A man of that type. And for ordinary human beings it is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. Therefore vānaprastha is recommended, that "Go out of home, remain in the tīrtha-sthana and again come. See your children. Again go. Then take sannyāsa.
Dr. Patel: Do you think, in your opinion, māyāvāda was a necessity to undo all the bad effect of the degenerated Buddhism? This followed some three, four or seven hundred years of after Gautama Buddha.
Prabhupāda: No, it... It might be necessity for the time being. Buddhism also was a necessity for the time being. They are not for all. Emergency. Just like it is going on, "emergency." It is not necessity, but sometimes we have to take emergency. Otherwise how Vaiṣṇavas are worshiping Lord Buddha? Eh? Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jatam: "You are always deriding the Vedic principles," śruti-jatam. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghāṭam. This is emergency, that "You have become so much compassionate upon the poor animals because they are unnecessarily being killed." Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa. He is glorifying, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, but showing that "You are deriding Vedic principles." So how is that, if one derides Vedic principle, at the same time, jaya jagadīśa hare?
Dr. Patel: Because the Vedic principles were not properly understood by those people at that time.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He directly said, "I don't care for the Vedas." Lord Buddha says. So who will worship a person who directly says, "I don't care for your Vedas"? Shall you go to worship a Buddhist or Mohammedan? No. This is emergency. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita paśu-ghāṭam. He cannot deride the Vedic principle, but it was necessary at the time. Otherwise these rascals will not stop.
| Page Title: | Buddha (Conversations, 1974 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, Mayapur |
| Created: | 25 of Aug, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=45, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 45 |