Hari-śauri: This is in connection with the churning of the ocean?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it actually possible for the demons to win?
Prabhupāda: Sometimes. When there is fighting, both the parties will have chance to win. What is this? (break)
Devotee (1): ...degraded activity in the public parks. Fighting and intoxications and all kinds of nonsense. Just like animals. (break)
Devotee (2): And there were so many people that we decided that next weekend we'll come and distribute magazines and incense.
Makhanlāl: In the Bhagavad-gītā, Eighteenth Chapter, 54th verse, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), it says that the person in brahma-bhūtaḥ realization at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. If the devotee is situated on the platform of the brahma-bhūtaḥ, but he may not necessarily see everything as Brahman, does that mean that his realization is by intelligence, and by his activity, or what does that mean?
Prabhupāda: Realization of spiritual identification.
Makhanlāl: Realization of spiritual life?
Prabhupāda: Identity.
Makhanlāl: Identity? (break) Brahman realization for the devotee in the beginning is just that he realizes his constitutional position as servant of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is next. First of all, that "I am not this body." That is Brahman realization.
Makhanlāl: So we may only be partially situated in that realization in our present level of devotional service.
Prabhupāda: You realize or not realize, if you remain on the platform, that is same. (break) ...in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. (break)
Makhanlāl: ...says that such a person never laments nor desires anything. So...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you realize that you are servant of Kṛṣṇa, where is lamentation?
Makhanlāl: Due to māyā's influence, a devotee may sometimes materially lament.
Prabhupāda: That you have to struggle. Tapasā brahmacāryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). That is called tapasya. But if you stick to devotional service, māyā will not be able to touch you.
Makhanlāl: The māyā that harasses the devotee is just mental concoction, then? He should concentrate on just serving?
Prabhupāda: Māyā's harassing, that means you are not in devotional service. It is not concoction; it is fact.