Harikeśa: Because it's beyond the material creation, and you have to use the material senses and mind to understand. It's not possible.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, our point is deductive. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfect.
Harikeśa: So first prove the existence of God and the existence of the spirit soul . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: . . . and then, they'll just have to explain . . .
Prabhupāda: And then it's creation.
Harikeśa: And then it's creation. They'll just have to accept they have desires.
Prabhupāda: Aham evāsam evāgre (SB 2.9.33). This is the Bhāgavata's first instruction to Brahmā. Aham evāsam agre. Agre means in the beginning. So in the beginning Kṛṣṇa was there, then creation took place. Similarly, in the beginning of this body, "I am spirit soul" was there. Then the body comes out. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore the whole cosmic manifestation has come about. Aham evāsam agre. And at the end of the creation, Kṛṣṇa is there. Similarly, at the end of this body, I am there. Again I'll create another body. This is going on.
Harikeśa: It's Kṛṣṇa's trick just to give us this facility.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: This is Kṛṣṇa's trick just to give us facility.
Prabhupāda: Because I wanted it. Kṛṣṇa doesn't want it. But because you are rascals we wanted it. Kṛṣṇa is, "All right, do it."