Prabhupāda: Because their folly is... They therefore do not take authority. Otherwise they'll be exposed. Yes. śāstra-cakṣusā. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). These are the injunctions. (dog barks) Yes, come on. We have got your punishment. So there is an argument: pala bonatu hoya (?). "I'm not afraid of you. Although I'm, I'm going away, I'm not afraid of you. (laughter) Don't think that I am afraid of you." This is dog business. They'll go, "gow!" and go away, go away. They'll not come forward. Come on. (laughter) (break) Well, our every day is a New Year. Nava-navayauvana. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, the more you advance, you see new year, new year. That's all. Nothing is old. People are seeing that they are simply chanting the old slogan, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Afraid (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: ...they are all running away.
Prabhupāda: They are so good Christian that at the time of danger, they're all going away to Canada. Just see-afraid of death, even though they are preaching themselves, priest, they are also the same common man, afraid of death. And if we people keep to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are not afraid of death. For going from one place to another, that's all. Going home, nobody becomes afraid going back to home. He becomes pleased. (break) You avoid death, there is no death. Viṣaya.(?) If we simply practice this, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... No more death. Finished death. This is a fact. (break) ...or do something for Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste time, single moment. Then your... No more death. Because this is deathless condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There has been case. Yes.
Umāpati: In Calcutta that way too?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh yes. I was in the examination hall, and in fact, people are very afraid to be caught there. But now I heard that the government of India is going to change the system of examination.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That they have introduced a grade system just like here in the United States, and then there will be open books, so that they will be not be afraid of copying things. Open book examination.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Viṣṇujana: We felt it was Nityānanda's grace.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Viṣṇujana: First we were afraid. Haridāsa Brahmacārī told me: "Oh, these are Mohammedans. They'll not help us in any way, nor will they accept prasādam." But then I said let us go...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone will help us. Maybe... In that way sometimes Hindus are also against. It is not the Mohammedans. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, even the Hindus were against His movement, the brāhmaṇas. They complained to the Kazi that "This is not Hindu movement." You see? The saṅkīrtana movement. Therefore Kazi had to take steps to stop the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi took step on the ground of complaint by the Hindus.
Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us. Here is a time bomb on my table." So police came. They also took it very carefully in the chemical laboratory. And in the chemical lab, they were also afraid. Then they saw it is glycerin.
Prabhupāda: No, there are more.... (break) (?) ...instruction of spiritual master, that is actually communicating.
Devotee: Hm. (break)
Harikeśa: ...which I've always been afraid to ask, because I don't know if it's proper, but you being the external manifestation of Supersoul, if we are having questions, doubts, when, in your absence, if we are receiving indications, is there any possible way that someone who is so conditioned can have any understanding of proper action in your absence? In other words, if I am in your absence and I am in great doubt, and I am praying to Supersoul to please save me somehow, if I receive some action which I must do or some course of action becomes obvious, should I trust that, considering that you're communicating with me, or...?
Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.
Dr. Patel: All Indians and all Gujarati baniyas who settled in Africa, one and all are multi-millionaires.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also.
Dr. Patel: But they have migrated to London now. They are very well... People from England, I mean, Africa, especially East Africa, Kenya and Uganda... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...their own house in London. Every Indian. (break) Englishmen, they haven't got their own house.
Dr. Patel: No, Englishmen are very much afraid of business with... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...former purchaser, they sell to the higher bidders.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Very cunning. Very cunning people.
Bhava-bhūti: I think there is some complaint also here in Maharastra, some plan not to give any more Gujaratis job. Just simply... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That body is there, and you are absorbed in body. Therefore there is suffering. You may say that "I am not this body, and I am not this body," but when the body's going to be killed, you become afraid. Because you are absorbed. Why go beyond this practical point?
Dr. Patel: Ācchā.
Prabhupāda: Just like everyone knows that you are not the motor car. Everyone knows it. But as soon as there is any breakage in the nice motor car, "Oh, I am gone." Why, where you gone? You are not motor car. But because you are absorbed in the sense that "It is my car, my car, my car," you have become absorbed. So any accident to the motor car, you become unhappy. But everyone knows you are not motor car. Why you become unhappy? This is called māyā. So you are not completely free. So so long we are in this body, so the sufferings of the body is there. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. "Just tolerate." Just tolerate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vacaṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. So this is sam... Unless you give engagement to the senses, proper, how you can control it? Your eyes want to see beautiful of man or woman. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But when you are captivated by seeing the Deity of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, then that eyes being engaged otherwise is stopped. That has been explained by Prabodānanda Sarasvatī. Durdantendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī-protkhāta-daṁstrāyate. Protkhāta-damstrāyate. Protkhāta means extracted, the poison teeth. The poison teeth of the tea, uh, teeth of the snake is dangerous. Now, here is a snake. Everyone is afraid, "Oh, snake! Snake! Snake!" But if everyone knows that his poison teeth have been taken away, then there is no more danger. Similarly, these indriyas have been compared with the kāla-sarpa-paṭalī. Kāla-sarpa-paṭalī.
Girirāja: "O Hṛṣīkeśa, the world becomes joyful upon hearing Your name, and thus everyone becomes attached to You. Although the perfected beings offer You their respectful homage, the demons are afraid, and they flee here and there. All this is rightly done." (break)
Prabhupāda: Siddha, there is a Siddha-loka. So they can fly from one planet to another without any machine, siddha-saṅgāḥ. Means the aṣṭa-siddhi yogas, they have got naturally.
Dr. Patel: All aṣṭa-siddhis, they have got.
Girirāja: (reads synonyms) "Translation: All the demigods are surrendering and entering into You. They are very much afraid, and with folded hands they are singing the Vedic hymns."
Prabhupāda: When the demigods... They have to offer prayers to the Lord, instead of... How they can be worshiped on the equal level of God? How can they be worshiped on the...? That is forbidden. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ deva. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (some people come) Yas tu nārāyaṇaṁ devaṁ brahma-rudrādi-daivataiḥ, samatvena vikṣeta sa pāṣāṇḍī bhaved dhruvam (CC Madhya 18.116). Nārāyaṇam devam, the Supreme Personality of God Nārāyaṇa, if one makes Him on the equal position with such big, big demigods like Brahmā, Rudra, so immediately he becomes a pāṣāṇḍī. And now they are comparing with the daridra. Just see.
Girirāja: So the doctors face a dilemma, that they keep the heart going by the machine, but they don't know whether the patient is actually living or dead. So they are afraid to stop the machine. They don't know how to decide when to stop the machine.
Prabhupāda: But when they stop it...?
Girirāja: Then the patient is dead. (laughter)
Yaśomatīnandana: That is the modern science, so imperfect. They don't even know whether a person is live or dead.
Prabhupāda: What do they know? They know something, but everyone knows. Even the birds and beasts, they also know something.
Italian Man (1): Because they don't like to identify themselves with animals. Because if they admit that animals have a soul, then they have to identity, means they are afraid of identifying with animals. They feel they are superior to animals. We are superior to animals, indeed, but...
Prabhupāda: That is by intelligence. We are superior to animals by superior intelligence, not by... Just like a human child. His father is superior than the child because the father has got superior intelligence, not that the child has no soul. The child talks so many nonsense things, but we take it, "After all, it is child." Nobody cares whether it is symmetrical or not, because his intelligence is not developed. So even the animals have no developed intelligence, that does not mean it has no soul. Yes. The evolution of different types of body means evolution of intelligence. Just like a flower, in the bud stage, the flower is there. But the fragrance or the beauty has not yet developed. So unless the things are there, how it can develop? Similarly, the soul is there in every living entity, but according to the development of the body, evolution of the body, the intelligence becomes manifest. Otherwise, what is the meaning of education? Education means to develop the intelligence. That is education.
Prabhupāda: In Indian villages—I have seen in Bengal—they keep cows, and they have got Viṣṇu śilā, especially in the house of a brāhmaṇa, all high caste (?). Yes. (break) Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father was a demon, but he was never afraid of Him. He was challenging, "Oh, my father..." He never said, "Father." He said, asura-varya: "the best of the demons." Tat sādhu manye asura-varya dehinām. When his father asked him, "My dear Prahlāda..." After all, he was child. "What you have learned best?" So he said, tat sādhu manye asura-varya. He is addressing his father, asura-varya, "the best of the demons." Tat sādhu manye: "I consider it very nice thing." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām.
Prabhupāda: No. (lots of laughter) Demons would not come daily to see Kṛṣṇa's ārati. That they'll not. That they'll not. No. I say that...
Dr. Patel: Tomorrow we are going to walk all the distance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I say that we devotees, we are not afraid even of demons. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). He asked the son, "What you have learned, the best thing, in school?" He said, "My dear asura-varya," not father, "My dear best of the demons, I think this is the best thing." "What is that?" "Now, these people," sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, "always anxious, full of anxiety..." Why? Asad-grahāt: "Because they accepted this material world as all in all." Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt: "On account of their accepting this material world as everything, therefore they are full of anxiety.
Prabhupāda: Even if you receive at home your enemy, you shall treat him in such a way that he is not afraid. Akuto 'bhayam. That "I have come to the house of enemy and he can do me harm at any time," no. He should be received in such a way that he will be completely free from these thoughts, that "I am his enemy."
Dr. Patel: These Arabs were well known about receiving these guests like that, but they have learned from India.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all Indians. All this land... Now just like they have become Pakistan. They were Indians, Hindu. Because we degraded in our culture, the divisions, the so many divisions... Otherwise whole world are under Vedic culture. As soon as the brāhmaṇas and the..., or kṣatriyas, they degenerated, the whole society disrupted.
Richard Webster: What civilization there is comes chiefly from the television, I'm afraid. I mean the public opinion is made by the television.
Atreya Ṛṣi: The television today is setting up the standard for the civilization, for today's civilization.
Richard Webster: But they talk about nothing but name war (?) and...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) pictures.
Richard Webster: It's much easier. They're producing more television sets (indistinct)
Yogeśvara: It's a great science. My mother is an executive in a public relations firm. Her business is to show products, goods, to people that otherwise they have no need for and to convince them that there is some value. It's a very big industry, especially in the United States, public relations, advertising. It's very psychological too. They use all kinds of psychological techniques for inducing people to take things they have no need for.
Prabhupāda: If there is no opposite elements, there is no need of weapons. If I am not your enemy, there is no fear. We are preaching this philosophy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: (BG 18.54) "As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become jubilant." So where is your enemy? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then where is your enemy? Formerly, a man might have become enemy of another man. But this demonic civilization has created nation to nation, country to country, community to community, all enemies. And on account of this communistic enemy, so many innocent people are killed. I have seen in Calcutta during the partition days. So many innocent Hindus and Muslims were killed. Any (indistinct), very quickly this Communistic feeling is aroused, and they fight, like cats and dogs. "Oh, here is another dog! Here is another dog, coming from another neighborhood." So this is demonic civilization. If you want to go to some country, you have to take visa, permission, this, that, so many. Why? Vedic civilization is "You come to my country. Welcome. You are my guest." Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam: "Even one is enemy, when he comes to my house, he is my honorable guest." And here, they are so much afraid that you keep dogs. The dog is kept here. (loud truck noise)
C. Hennis: That's true. They're servants of the membership and the membership is the international..., of the states, of the world. And if the governments of the states of the world, if Mr. Giscard d'Estaing, Mr. Nixon and Mr. Wilson and all the others don't have brain, then I'm afraid that the United Nations can do nothing to give them brains. There has to be... We are only the servants of these people. What we try and do is let them get together and help them understand their problems.
Prabhupāda: Let them understand. At least, let them understand what they should do, what they should not do. This much...
Yogeśvara: Every time a gentleman like that comes or a man like that comes and we get too close to the point about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they seem to become afraid.
Prabhupāda: No, as soon as we raise this question, killing, he became sorry. He has no answer. Therefore he wants to be out, evade. "Why Christians are killing?" Anyone I raise this question, immediately he becomes stopped, mum, dumb. That's all. Christian community, there are so many. Practically the majority of the human society, they are Christian. They are the persons who are indulging in killing. And where is Christian? Judging from the Ten Commandments, there is not a single Christian, not a single, and still, they are going, the Pope, the cardinal, the priest, the church. All simply show-bottles, that's all. There is no life. And therefore it is dwindling. Practically... Just like our Los Angeles was Christian Church. Nobody was coming. Therefore it was sold. And now there is no place to accommodate devotees. Life is lost in Christian religion. Nobody is interested, no more. And within a few years, it will be lost. It is lost in... I have seen in England. Nobody is going to church. All churches are being closed. How long you will cheat? What is that?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
M. Roost: It's to go through death by stop one from this sentence that people is afraid of death and is a fast program how to transcend human life, how to transcend la mort.
Guru-gaurāṅga: To transcend death.
M. Roost: How to transcend death. And technically, by practice, kumbha (?), the kumbha, fighting, two persons are fighting, master and disciple...
Prabhupāda: (coughing) Water, little.
Prabhupāda: Geneva lake. And a few steps forward, a French lake. So either to the French or Geneva, it does not belong. It belongs to God. He's a fool. Why don't you say, "God's lake"?
Yogeśvara: We could propose them that they change the name, but I think they might be afraid it would drive away the tourists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam... (CC Adi 17.21). (end)
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: He says, "But then Kṛṣṇa says, 'Why are you afraid to fight? After all, the soul is eternal, but the body is only temporary.' So isn't that a justification..."
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Therefore you open slaughterhouse and go on killing animals."
Yogeśvara: (translates)
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In the Vedic times also, just a few thousand years ago, there was one monarch also, one king.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they were subordinate to him.
Guru-gaurāṅga: But now, countries like Switzerland, they're afraid that if there is one kingdom, they will lose their standard of living.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.
Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.
Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking.
Bhagavān: Today the priests are afraid to speak too strongly or else they will be fired and get no salary.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: Today the priests, they are afraid to speak.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: Or like the politicians, they are afraid to speak because they are afraid that they will be voted out or get no more money to support their...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're after money. So they are less than śūdras. That is the cause that Christianity has fallen down, that they cannot speak straightly, or otherwise... It is straight commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And because people are killing, they're... Now they are give man-to-man marriage, what to speak of other things. The priests, they are sermonizing this man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become. Whether any conception... At least, outside America, nobody knows that a man can be married with another man. What is this? And they're supporting it. You know that?
Bhagavān: No. (more conversation with gas station attendant, etc.) (break) It is very known that the family is very strong, the family attachment is very strong. In America, people separate from the family very early. And in France, the family attachment is so strong. And many people, many families have come and asked us if we will be able to open school here for their children too. The interest is there. Everyone is afraid of this present system of schooling. Because they send their children there, and they come back so crazy.
Prabhupāda: Rogues. Rogues. After education, they are rogues only (pause) (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoying more than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You also sleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the difference between you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great? What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? God has given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God is everything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When you understand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is his intelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dissatisfaction. If you are not worried, that means you are animal. You are not human being.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is that like Prahlāda Mahārāja's prayer when he saw Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva and he said, "I am not afraid of Your ferocious form, but I am afraid of this material world of saṁsāra."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He has given nice reference. A devotee, although sees God in His lion feature, and very ferocious, he knows He is God. "He's my Lord." But this so-called advancement of material civilization is the greatest enemy. That is not... Material civilization is very, very backward position. Māyā-mohita. He'll be captivated by the so-called stones and bricks, and he'll forget God. That is the disease of the western world.
Prabhupāda: Therefore those who do not take risk, they do not remain within this material world. They go to the Himalaya, go to the forest. They are afraid of being contaminated. But more liberal devotees, they take the risk and "Never mind, I shall go to hell. Let me do something for Kṛṣṇa. Let others may understand something of Kṛṣṇa." That is their, mean magnanimity, taking the risk of going to hell, still, giving the information, "Just try to understand Kṛṣṇa." So such persons are exalted. Because they are taking their own risk to serve Kṛṣṇa. That at least one man may understand Kṛṣṇa. And others, they are flying, flying away, fleeing away, "No, no. We are not going to take risk."
Bhagavān: In ignorance, though, even though he's in ignorance, he is hurting people due to his ignorance by... He's claiming to be a teacher, and even though he may be innocent or ignorant, because he's in that position of leader, he's actually hurting people, wasting their life.
French Devotee: He left, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because he was very afraid that we were right.
Bhagavān: He said he had another engagement.
Paramahaṁsa: In the world today it seems as if, just like men take advantage of women and make them topless and bottomless, also they try and encourage people like this to be leaders of religion. That way the mass of people don't take any real interest. They do this in Russia too. They kill the sincere religious leaders, and they put their own men as religious leader, and it just sort of undermines the whole purity and the importance in the instruction, and then no one repeats it.
Karandhara: In the West also, in the past ten years there's been a resurgence of what's called fundamentalism. For so long the Christian liturgy, the Christian doctrine, got so hodge-podge and so wishy-washy that people were leaving because there was simply nothing there solid for them to grasp onto. Now fundamentalism, or the very basic principles that God is the Almighty and that we are sinners and if we don't repent, God's going to strike us down with wrath and anger, that basic principle of fear of God, that is receiving new support. Many people are coming back to that because even though it's a very vague thing, still it's something definite. "God is there, and if I do something wrong, He's going to cut me down," rather than, "Well, nothing's wrong, nothing's right," it's all hodge-podge, wish wash. People can't grasp onto that. There's nothing for them to...
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda, "nothing wrong, nothing right. Everything is all right," Vivekananda's philosophy.
Bhagavān: Yes. This is the Kṛṣṇa Book that Śrīla Prabhupāda has written. It is a summary of the Tenth Canto. And all these paintings, these are done by our artists in New York.
Professor La Combe: I'm afraid I should go now.
Jyotirmayī: Yes. Monsieur La Combe has a course.
Professor La Combe: Not a course, but a meeting. And as the traffic is rather thick now, it is better not to take a chance. I should not be late.
Prabhupāda: All right. Thank you very much.
Professor La Combe: Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Prabhupāda: Oh. We have got Kṛṣṇa. We are not afraid in challenging anyone. I believe on that formula. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). I believe that verse very strongly, that anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa or is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he must be within this list: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ. That's all. I have explained that verse little elaborately. Read it. It is very interesting. Where is Satsvarūpa?
Bhagavān: He is in the other room. Would you like him to come in?
Prabhupāda: Anywhere. In Calcutta it was dangerous to go out because the next... You do not know whether you'll come back. People are so afraid. He's going to work in the office. It will be God's grace if he returns back. It is such a city. Actually so happened. We were sitting, I was at that time in a... I was guest in our life member's. Sitting in morning, afternoon, o'clock (?). "Oh, that gentleman is killed." He was very important businessman. He went to the temple, a Marwari, and on his coming back, he was killed from the backside. Life is still so, but it is little diminished. (break) ...about so-called saintly persons, they are: tapasvino grāma-vāsāḥ. "The so-called yogis, they'll live in the town." Actually, the yogis have no business in the town. They should go to a secluded place. But they will live in... Just like the other... He's living in Paris City, and he's a yogi.
Prabhupāda: There is a verse. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). If one is God realized soul, he is not afraid of anything. Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ. So actually, if one is self-realized, he is no more fearful or concerned with the bodily necessities of life. That is liberation. Just like as you mentioned sleeping. Sleeping also, a bodily necessity. When you are tired, you sleep. That is bodily necessity. But it is not spiritually necessary. About the Gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau: ** "Conquered over sleeping, eating, mating." That is also one of the symptoms of self-realization. These things are necessities of the body. So the more one is advanced in self-realization, these things will be minimized: eating, sleeping, mating and defending. And gradually it will come to nil because this is bodily necessities. Self, the active principle, that is different. The active principle necessity is different. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. But these are bodily necessities: eating, sleeping, mating. So, so long this body is there, of course, we must eat, we must sleep.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they have problem. They are killing only. The human society, they should be advanced so much that even the birds, they have nothing to kill for their eating. They have got sufficient food. And we are advanced human being. We are killing for eating instead of God giving us so much food, enough food. And they are still puffed up with advanced civilization. They have not even human feeling. These poor cows, they are giving us milk, the most nutritious food, and we can prepare so many nice nutritious foodstuff. So let them live. And if I want to eat at all, let it die. Then we shall eat. Why kill it? So they have no common sense. And they are leading the sinful life; still, they are very much proud of their civilization. And they are suffering periodical wars, war number one, war number two, war number three. This number will increase. Not only... Without war, thousands of children are being killed within the womb. This is going on. If you kill, then you be killed. This is nature's reaction. You will be killed within the womb. You will never see the sunlight. Again you die, again enter another womb, and again be killed. This has increased in modern society. Even the father, mother does not want to see the child living: "Kill him." And a few days, few years after, we shall kill each other. So they are not afraid of any sinful life. You see? The nature will not tolerate. Kṛṣṇa will not tolerate.
Bishop Kelly: Well, of course, the difficulty as you rightly point out many times there, that man in the present day civilization, he is so often mesmerized, he is captivated by what he sees in front of him... It is the modern garden of Eden that he sees. He sees many delectable apple trees, so to speak, and he feels in the new vaunted value given to personalism and the expression of self, and the self-seeking, that he reaches out towards those things, and I'm afraid that in many cases the difficulty is to convince him that he is only getting poor substitutes until he has tasted and eaten and tried to digest and finds, you know, that there is no satisfaction, there is no wholesome food to be found there.
Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by... That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, this boy devotee. He says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These foolish people, they do not know, what is their actual self-interest." So he says, "They do not know the actual self-interest is approaching God. That is real self-interest. But they do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). "They have made their plan wrongly to become happy in this material world." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they are afraid of our troops. (laughter) They are afraid.
Madhudviṣa: One of those nose-pressers, he once was speaking, and he said, "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they like me very much. They always come to my lectures and they sell all the books, all their books, and then they go away before I start to talk."
Prabhupāda: "You go on pressing your nose. We make our business and go away." (laughter)
Madhudviṣa: He was speaking like that because our men go into the lecture dressed in disguise, plain clothes, and we are going in the audience selling books to everyone. They all get the book, and then, when he begins to speak, then we all turn around and go out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they did it in the Guru Maharaji's camp also. Hundreds of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is sold.
Bali Mardana: In New York also, we have to do negotiations very secretly because if they find out, they would not want to sell to us. They would be afraid.
Prabhupāda: Oh, New York, there was Ratha-yatra?
Bali Mardana: No, no. For purchasing the church.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Bali Mardana: They're also afraid that we will take over.
Prabhupāda: But that is not yet finished.
Bali Mardana: Well, it is going on now. The one building is finished. Other building is still... Until we are living there...
Prabhupāda: That, one Japanese gentleman wrote in a paper that "This Movement, as it growing fast, within ten years the whole world will become Hindu ."
Bali Mardana: Jaya. (laughter) (break)
Prabhupāda: No, not a single person. Actually he remains slave, artificially he thinks that "I am master." Just like Nixon was thinking. He was actually slave of the nation, but he was thinking, "I am master." When he was pressed too much, he had to admit, "Yes, I am your slave." He was pressed. Rather, oppressed. Nobody is thinking. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. Everyone is thinking, "I have got now so much money (indistinct) ...lot of money, so who is better than me?" (indistinct) She has become poet. Nonsense number one, and she is poet. Does not know the human psychology or animal psychology. The human psychology, animal psychology, that you have seen on the road, the sex. The animal does not require any education. The animal knows how to use sex; the man knows how to use sex. Where is the difference? Simply she is animal, she does the sex intercourse in a public street, animal (indistinct) an apartment, very nice apartment (indistinct). It is (indistinct), either you are dog or a human being, the fact is. He also sleeps. He sleeps on the street anywhere, and we sleep in a nice apartment. He also eats, and the human being also eats. He eats the stool and we eat very nice, palatable foodstuff. That sleeping propensity is there, sex life is there, and he is also afraid of enemies. Where is the difference? Difference is that dog cannot be taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness but a man can be taught. That is the difference. So if man does not take advantage of this human life, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is no better than a dog. He has no (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So if we study analytically, we can understand that how much we are in illusion. This most abominable thing, we are taking it is the center of happiness. (break) Therefore, Vaiṣṇava (indistinct). Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, they are enjoying a certain type of most abominable happiness. Tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me, I have no problem. All problems solved." Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyās tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ. "I am not afraid of this material world because I have learned how to enjoy life simply by thinking of Your pastimes. But I am unhappy." Soce. Soce means unhappy. Why? Tato vimukha-cetasa. "These rascals who have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have made huge arrangement simply for sex."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): It would be rather difficult, I'm afraid.
Prabhupāda: That you must know the, how it can be experiment. It is given. The example is given that... What is that? "As the child is passing"?
Hṛdayānanda: "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death."
Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, this is a fact. Everyone knows that body is changing. Now, how the last body's changed? That you make experiment, how it is passing. Yes. To make experiment means you have to know the science how to make experiment. That is knowledge. You take the basic principle of knowledge, and then you make your experiment and you will know this is perfect.
Guest (1): Is there any direct line of division between that which you would call knowledge and that what you call religion?
Prabhupāda: Ask this rascal that you stop the cause of fear and we have no... (to devotee who is walking too close:) Don't come so far. You may... We admit that we are afraid of death. You are also afraid of death. Are you bold enough? If I kill you immediately you shall stand. Ask the scientist, "Are you bold enough to die immediately? I shall kill you?" At that time he will be afraid: "Call police! Call police!" "Why you are afraid of death? You are great scientist. What is your answer?" The scientists are not afraid of death? They are not afraid of death?
Vīrabāhu: I really don't know what they will answer. They should be. Sure, they are, inside, but they are puffed up.
Hṛdayānanda: They are very much afraid.
Vīrabāhu: I really don't know what they will answer. They should be. Sure, they are, inside, but they are puffed up.
Hṛdayānanda: They are very much afraid.
Prabhupāda: Very much afraid, yes.
Hṛdayānanda: There is one great scientist when I was a student, and he was trying to prove how there was no God, and he was so nervous, sometimes he could hardly speak he was shaking so much. (laughter)
Vīrabāhu: Oh, yes, that is what happens. When one starts speaking of God, they just...
Prabhupāda: So long you have not solved the four prominent miserable condition of life, birth, death, old age and disease, you cannot say there is no God. There is controller who is forcing you to accept these conditions. Therefore there is authority. How you can avoid this?
Prajāpati: Practically all the theologians are aligned with one denomination or another, and they're like company men to the big churches, and they're afraid of admitting they do not know about God because they're afraid somebody will leave their camp and come to ours. We say we know about God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say frankly that we know God, His father's name, His address, everything. Let anyone come and challenge. He cannot say that "No, this is not God," because he has not approached God. He does not know what is God. How he can challenge us that "This is not God"? Suppose we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as God, so how anyone can challenge? Because he has not approached God. He is simply speculating.
Prabhupāda: That is all right. Anyone who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. It doesn't matter what he is.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Many of them are afraid to accept our movement or our philosophy because they feel that their personal religion is threatened, that they'll have to stop being a Christian. So when I earlier mentioned that to start some Christian group, the idea was to have some people who are professing to be Christians, but they are taking the word of Jesus to the deepest point where he says that "There are many things I have not revealed to you, and you will understand them by the grace of the Holy Spirit." So they could have a Christian group where people worshiped Lord Jesus as their spiritual master and simultaneously worshiped Kṛṣṇa. And they could introduce that to develop more knowledge of God one can read the Bhagavad-gītā, one can follow the instruction in the Bible by chanting the names of God, and they would have better access to Christians than those of us who are wearing robes or shaving our heads.
Prabhupāda: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, "After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?" That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.
Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.
Prabhupāda: Not renouncing, not renouncing. Just like our (?) think of future, that is also for present benefit. Future, future... The best intelligence is that just like one is afraid of suffering in old age, future. So there is. That is not ignorance. That is future life. So karmīs are thinking future life should be very comfortable. They want to go to the heavenly planets. They therefore act very piously, perform yajñas. That is all future. So real problem is that we are going to get another body in future. So what kind of body we shall get? That is intelligence. Body you have to get. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So one should be very intelligent—"What kind of body I am going to get?"
Prabhupāda: (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari (CC Adi 9.41). "First of all, you become perfect." If you are a devil, you cannot do it. The devil and divine. Divine means spiritually advanced, and devil means materially advanced. And because we are manufacturing divine, the devils are afraid of it. The devils do not like this movement. (Someone drives by:) Jaya. So just see, automatically they are offering respect. That means we are infecting them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was noticing that yesterday on the parade, everyone was offering respects.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vṛndāvana after all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that is a benefit spiritually.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: They can bring a dog if he's on a leash.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can. I have seen in Los Angeles. (pause) The water is not very clean. (ducks quacking) We are afraid of water; they're enjoying. (pause) Here we have got gold, copper, somewhere in the mines, but in the sky there are millions of miles land of copper, gold.
Amogha: Do you mean other planets, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big planets, millions of miles. (pause)
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When a spirit soul first falls from the spiritual sky into the material world, does he first go to the lowest of the 8,400,000 species of life, and then gradually come up, or can he fall to the middle or anywhere?
Prabhupāda: According to his desire. In the beginning it is not so fall down.
Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect. We allow everyone to eat. Not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts, they should live comfortably and without any disturbance, they must get their food. That is our Communism. But where is your Communism? You are thinking of your countrymen only, or in your country also only for the human being, and you are sending other poor animals, because they cannot protest, to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest to the capitalists when they send you to the slaughterhouse? You are sending these poor animals to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest? You protest that the capitalist are slaughtering you. So, if you slaughter others, why should you be afraid of being slaughtered yourself? Is it all right?
Gaṇeśa: Why don't the people revolt if they're so unhappy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are revolting, but they are now so much suppressed they cannot... Sometimes there is revolt. Sometimes there is upheaval.
Paramahaṁsa: Not a big upheaval because they are terrorized. They are afraid that if they revolt, then they...
Prabhupāda: They will be killed.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, the government will come out and just shoot them all.
Prabhupāda: Yes, all the Leninists and Stalinists, they kill. It is a country of terrorism. That's all. The government men, they are simply terrorists. That's all.
Paramahaṁsa: Just like in Cambodia they just, the new Communist government, they executed tens and thousands of people just recently.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Paramahaṁsa: People who were working for the old government. They just killed them all. So this what the people are afraid of.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Terrorism. This Communism means terrorism. (aside:) Thank you.
Amogha: I have a garland, but it's not finished. Almost...
Prabhupāda: Communism means terrorism. That I have seen. I have studied personally. By threat, by pressure, that's all. Nobody is communist in Russia.
Jayadharma: Is the whole world going to become Communist, Prabhupāda? Or is the whole world going to become Kṛṣṇa cons...
Prabhupāda: In Thailand?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. In Bangkok. That was about two years ago.
Prabhupāda: Oh, just see.
Paramahaṁsa: So the people are very afraid to cause any upheaval. They are afraid that immediately the government will just come and kill them. 'Cause the government has all the weapons. They have the tanks and the guns and everything. And the normal people, they don't have any weapons.
Prabhupāda: This is the age of Kali-yuga. Therefore the only shelter is Kṛṣṇa. There is no other way. In India it's practically dwindling. Now there is no reason they are not sanctioning our temple. They do not give any reason. "No!" Why "No"? "We don't give any reason." And "Kīrtana is nuisance, nuisance." They are doing that already.
Prabhupāda: You do your duty, that's all. (pause) What is this? Stone or something?
Amogha: Part of the street I think. I think it's sandstone from the beach. (pause) Many politicians are afraid that Australia may be attacked by the Communists. Everyone is very much afraid of what could happen in the future, because the United States is becoming weaker.
Prabhupāda: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.
Amogha: They all seem to think that spiritual life is something to think about, something...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a very important matter. If you do not spare time, that is your business, but... (laughs)
Justin Murphy: I'm afraid my life is one of these selfish lives. It's a life that's dominated by...
Prabhupāda: No, it is natural, just natural. Just like why first-class men required in society? Just like in your body there is first-class part, second-class part, third-class part, and fourth-class part. Just like your head is the first-class part of your body. If your head is cut off, then everything is finished.
Justin Murphy: True.
Devotee (1): And the losers will go to the heavenly planets.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who dies in such fight, he goes to heavenly planet.
Devotee (1): So they were not afraid of dying.
Prabhupāda: No, why? They knew. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "I am not going to die after the annihilation of this body." It was a common understanding. Not that such a man, big man, director, he says, "No, no, I don't believe in the soul." (chuckles) Therefore I said the fourth-class man. In India still, even a common man, uneducated farmer, he believes. He believes. He believes in God. He believes in transmigration. He believes in his karma. These things which will take thousands of years to be learned by the Westerners, even the common man knows still.
Prabhupāda: All of them (indistinct). Even our own scientist.
Amogha: (laughs) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is now writing books. He is afraid of writing these such books, because his brother scientists may not like it.
Devotee: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śrutakīrti: It is like the Russians and the Americans. He doesn't want to offend the other scientists. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: If the other scientists condemn him, then he will not get service.
Śrutakīrti: That's right.
Prabhupāda: Because they are less intelligent; therefore they don't care for death even. Neither they have got any idea what is going to happen after death. Formerly, people were afraid of committing sin. They knew that "After death, I will have to suffer." Now, at the present moment, the rascals are so daring, they do not care what is sin, what is going to happen next life. They do not care. That means less intelligent.
Dr. Copeland: What's going to happen to you in the next life?
Prabhupāda: My life? According to śāstra, if we have actually developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are going to Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Copeland: And you are...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is another poor fellow. If by bluffing like this, they can continue their office, that is another thing. In our childhood we were living in a quarter: there many thieves, pickpockets. So we... After all, they were neighborhood men, so they knew us. Although we had no connection, but we knew that "These are pickpockets, gundas." And they also knew us. So I remember, now, children, one pickpocket was taking, and as soon as he saw me... (laughter) He was afraid that "This boy may tell." We have seen it. He was doing... Similarly, these rascals are pickpockets, and they are asking us, "Don't expose us. Let us do."
Bali-mardana: On big island, the island that you visited where the farm is...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bali-mardana: On the island with the farm, the people are, now they are afraid that there will be a volcanic eruption and the whole island will be finished.
Prabhupāda: There is such sign?
Bali-mardana: Yes, because that volcano over there it is still active. It is smoking. It is always smoking.
Śrutakīrti: Siddha-svarūpa had said every twelve years it erupts, and I think it's been ten years since the last one or something. So it's expected that in two years...
Bali-mardana: Many Communist countries now, they are not making any more big cities. They are keeping the population very spread out so that after the war they will be able to take over. Because if one has a big city, then the people can be killed very easily in one bomb, finished. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they are afraid of death?
Bali-mardana: Well, the Chinese figure they have so many people that even if there is a war...
Prabhupāda: They are gainer.
Bali-mardana: There will still be so many of them left. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they will be left. (break) Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't bother. (break) (in car) Statistics of hitchhike. What is called, hitchhike?
Prabhupāda: Although the bhaktas are meant for going back to home, back to Godhead, but they don't care for it. "Whether I shall go back to home, back to Godhead, it doesn't matter. I must serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all." That is bhakta. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) no other desire. They want to see Kṛṣṇa happy. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa is happy, they are happy, bas. They remain in the hell, it doesn't matter. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). Those who are devotees, they are not afraid of going to hell. They are prepared going to hell, "All right, I shall go to hell and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finished. I want to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I can do it anywhere. I can do it in this corner. I can do in this building. I can do it in the airplane. I can do it in the hell. I can do it India. I can do it in Los Angeles, anywhere. It doesn't matter what I am or what is my position. I may simply go on chanting. That's all." This is devotee.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, you can pass resolution, the senators. When the senators come for vote, you tell them, "First of all dismiss all these things. Then we shall give you vote. Otherwise no more vote." Then they will be also. And vote has become cheap. Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That example I was giving, that small animals and big animal. The lion is a big animal, and he is afraid of by the small animals, jackals, cats and dogs. So out of fear, they are giving vote. But giving vote to whom? To an animal. So how they can be happy? A small animal is giving vote to the big animal. But suppose a big animal, a lion, he is very powerful. Does it mean he is human being? He is animal. So the small animals may be afraid of that big animal, but the human being knows that he is animal. That's all. He doesn't care for this animal. The animal may be very strong, but that does not mean he will be given any credit of human being. No. That is not possible. So in this animal civilization there are many strong, big animals.
Prabhupāda: ...freely.
Brahmānanda: Yes. Eating, sleeping, mating, and defending.
Jayatīrtha: Everyone is afraid now, of taking it. The crime rate has become very high.
Prabhupāda: Black and white?
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Negroes are envious of the white men.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. In Detroit every year one out of every five hundred people is murdered.
Prabhupāda: White man?
Prabhupāda: Firemen?
Brahmānanda: Yeah. So all the wives and girlfriends of the firemen, they have lodged a protest because they are afraid... Because the firemen, they, often they have nothing to do. So they are afraid that if there are women firemen that the women firemen will steal away the husbands. So they have made a protest. Because practically they have to remain together. They have to live together in the firehouse.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That is bondage.
Brahmānanda: Well, they're afraid that there will be illicit activity between the firemen and the firewomen. (laughter)
Brahmānanda: Yes. From Long Island, Rock of..., Far Rockaway, Jewish area? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...did not come? That student?
Brahmānanda: I think he was afraid to come and see his parents and come back to America.
Harikeśa: He told me in Vṛndāvana that sometimes Bon Mahārāja is "a little too far out." His disciple said this.
Prabhupāda: None of his disciples living with him.
Brahmānanda: Yeah, he also said that. He said "It is too difficult to live with my guru. I must live apart." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the Christian meeting, where it was?
Jayatīrtha: At the same time in that Time article it discussed that about fifty percent of the crime was done by children under eighteen and people are afraid even to go to the schools.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.
Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: Of the American Indians, the red Indians. Sometimes their chiefs are called Chief Thunderbird. It's a popular name for their chiefs.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh. We have got an idea of thunderbird. The bird flies in the, near the cloud in expectation of water, and they are not afraid of thunder. That is called cataka. That example is given by Rūpa Gosvāmī. The cataka does not take water from ground. They will take water when it falls from the cloud. So in the beginning of every cloud there is thunder. So this bird, because they expecting water from the cloud, the cloud is giving him thunder, but still he does not, will not take water from ground.
Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: In what connection do the Gosvāmīs use that example to illustrate?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact. (laughter) So what the man says?
Harikeśa: They are being quiet. They are too afraid to say.
Prabhupāda: That means they are accepting. When they are quiet... Quiet means... Maunaṁ śammati lakṣaṇam. If there is some argument and you remain quiet that means indirectly you accept.
Harikeśa: They are thinking that if the man were to speak out, then he would not be able to get his sex pleasure. The woman would withhold sex pleasure from the man if he were to speak out.
Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇitām: "The principles of religion is given by God." Just like the law. Law means the process of activities which is given by the government. You cannot make law at home. Is it clear?
Father: No, I'm having a language problem, I'm afraid.
Jayatīrtha: He says that law means that which is given by the government. You can't make your own law at home. So similarly, religion means that which is enunciated by the Lord. You can't make up your own process.
Father: Well, I guess I'm missing the point. My question was what does the Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness have to offer that other religions don't have to offer as far as...
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal.
Prabhupāda: Everyone now. India has also.
Paramahaṁsa: They're all afraid of using them.
Prabhupāda: They must use it. That is nature's arrangement.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, right. History.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's arrangement (chuckles) that you all die. That is nature's arrangement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When someone gets some power he wants to try it out. Just like there was that demon. Lord Śiva gave him power: whoever head he touched, the head would fall off.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Paramahaṁsa: The only difficulty is that if one person uses the atomic weapon, that means entire, it would be entire waste of mankind. So everyone's afraid of using the ultimate.
Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, they must be used. There is no doubt about it. Therefore we can say there will be war. It is no astrology. It is natural conclusion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Common sense.
Paramahaṁsa: That'd mean total destruction.
Paramahaṁsa: Under the threat of nuclear warfare wouldn't Kṛṣṇa consciousness be more easy to spread?
Prabhupāda: No, threat is already there. But they are so fool that they are not afraid of the threat. Threat is already there. Everyone will die. That is the problem. So who is caring for this? They are avoiding this. They cannot take any anti measures.
Yadubara: So it will take a war to bring them to their senses a bit?
Prabhupāda: No, war is going on. But they are so senseless that they will not come to this, so rascal. Therefore they are described as mūḍha, all rascals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very hard to preach to these fools, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bahulāśva: He says that... His name is Edgar Mitchell, and he was one of the men who went to the moon. But we talked, and he said... He thinks he has gone to the moon. But he said that when he was there, he had a religious experience, and he felt that there was a God. When he went to the moon, he had this experience. So when he came back, he was telling all his scientist friends what his experience was. So they became very afraid, and they kicked him out of the space project. They thought he had become a fanatic, religious sentimentalist, so they kicked him out. So now he has opened up an institute for noetic sciences or... It is some Greek word. It means like spiritual sciences. He wants to prove to the scientific world that there is God.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is good.
Paramahaṁsa: As far as these unidentified flying objects that Werner Von Braun was recently mentioning, he says that previously they've had many sightings. They've seen these and filmed these, but they're afraid to release them or the government is afraid to acknowledge them because they're afraid it would cause a panic amongst the world.
Prabhupāda: What is that panic?
Paramahaṁsa: A panic that everyone would be frightened with the fact that there is people from other planets.
Prabhupāda: ...sataḥ syāt. This frightfulness is due to unawareness of God. The more one is unaware of God, he is more frightened. One who is fully conscious of God, he is not frightened because he knows, "Everything is God. Why shall I afraid?"
Paramahaṁsa: Even death.
Prabhupāda: Death is already declared that "I am death." Kṛṣṇa says. So there is no question of.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a description in the Bhāgavatam of Dhruva Mahārāja when he's fighting all of those demons, that he wasn't frightened at all.
Hrdayananda: So the devotee sees Kṛṣṇa in death also.
Rādhā-vallabha: ...are very worried. They say the earth has a certain tilt, and every few million years the tilt is changing little, little, and by this changing eventually the ice on the North and South Poles will melt, they say. So they are very afraid because then their estimate is that the entire earth will be covered with water.
Prabhupāda: Why he is..? Why he is afraid?
Rādhā-vallabha: Well, they are afraid for future humanity. They will all be killed.
Prabhupāda: He is not careful about himself. He is thinking... He cannot take care of himself, he is thinking of others.
Brahmānanda: Oh. Anyway, he came to America, but President Ford refused to see him.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Brahmānanda: Because he was afraid. He was advised by Kissinger that "If you see him, then the Russian leaders, they will become angry upon you." So he refused to see him. So this received a great deal of criticism in America, that "We are for freedom and here he is coming, freedom fighter, and you refused to see him simply to pacify the Russian leaders." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...was a fault?
Satsvarūpa: His fault is that he spoke out against the whole Russian...
Brahmānanda: He speaks very strongly, condemns the Russian system.
Brahmānanda: Drinking and sex.
Prabhupāda: So why the Americans gave them freedom?
Ambarīṣa: They thought they were being humanitarian.
Prabhupāda: And now they are afraid of them.
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is a redundant house. (?)
Brahmānanda: I think it stopped raining now.
Prabhupāda: No, it is past seven. (end)
Prabhupāda: ...thinks of woman at the time of death, he becomes woman. And if a woman thinks of man at the time of death, she becomes man. (break) ...afraid of men?
Ambarīṣa: I don't think that they will let you go too close, but I don't know... Someone told me yesterday that people come out here and shoot them with bows and arrows and take them home and eat them. So they are not safe even here. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...interested to see us.
Prabhupāda: Hm? (break)
Brahmānanda: ...deer. They are just off the road.
Brahmānanda: Yes. There are certain pending investigations. So he is eligible for being called to give testimony for these investigations. But on the plea of his bad health, therefore he is not being called. He is afraid actually. Right now he does not go to any social gatherings, he does not make any public appearances. He is afraid that as soon as he makes public appearances, then he will be called to give testimony. So he is actually being forced to live a very lonely life.
Prabhupāda: Lonely life means drinking. What he will do? (break) ...this was made by Napoleon?
Bhagavān: Yes.
Brahmānanda: So the arch is still here. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lalitā: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Mahārāja has done.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am simply... This is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic, and what is called, miracles, they are..., where they are and where I am. That is their fear.
Lalitā: Fear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They understood that "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-melā all these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Kṛṣṇa śakti... It is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Have you got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Prabhupāda: That ask them. (laughter) You do not expect all answers from me, whether the flies like or not like. This is antiseptic. Nim is very, very antiseptic. Therefore it is natural, the flies and bugs, they are afraid of. Yes. (break)...here?
Harikeśa: He's the purchaser.
Akṣayānanda: He does shopping.
Prabhupāda: Namaskar. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Long Hindi conversation with someone) Dandhariya. Where is he? (Hindi) He knows how to capture. He is the... (Hindi) Guṇārṇava, he has not come?
Akṣayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: So he is going to Mathurā? You told him? Huh?
Prabhupāda: This is their scientific advancement.
Brahmānanda: They've made such a nice place that they're afraid the people will escape from it.
Prabhupāda: And they are thinking, "This system is for happiness."
Brahmānanda: If it's for happiness, then why prevent people from leaving?
Prabhupāda: "Why?"—that you are asking. They think it is happiness. That is called māyā. It is not happiness; still, if somebody is thinking happiness, that is called māyā.
Prabhupāda: He is more dangerous than Buddha. What is that big building?
Cyavana: They are building now a prison on the point there, a new prison. I tried to walk there one morning, and they stopped me because they are afraid someone may go in there and make some tunnel or some place where they can escape before they finish it.
Brahmānanda: It looks like a hotel.
Cyavana: Yes. It will be very luxurious.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they can use the argument that you're saying that human life is simply for Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, from his argument, why should you try to keep it? Let him die.
Cyavana: They are afraid of death. No one wants to die.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are afraid someone will take them off the machine, too.
Cyavana: We want to live as long as we can.
Prabhupāda: Then you have to accept that your killing child, abortion, that is sinful.
Prabhupāda: Enjoy. What is that enjoyment if you are going to die?
Harikeśa: It's so incredible how crazy everything is.
Brahmānanda: Well, at least before I die, I can get as much pleasure as I can.
Prabhupāda: Nobody can, if he is actually afraid of death. Suppose if you are given a beautiful woman—"Enjoy, and as soon as you come out I will shoot you." (laughter) Will you enjoy?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's a great example. That example would change the world.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference between a man of knowledge and a fool. Man of knowledge, that is that he knows he has to die. "But I don't wish to die. So what is the solution?" That is man of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa has given you independence. So you are.... By mentality, you have to suffer. Suppose if a child wants to do something, play, if you check it, check it, then he will go mad. Just like mother Yasoda was showing stick to Kṛṣṇa, and when Kṛṣṇa became so much afraid, he (she) became immediately anxious: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has too much anxiety. He may fall sick." So immediately throw away. So this is father-mother's affection.
Cyavana: So actually it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He allows us to come here, free ourselves from...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has given you little freedom. He doesn't want to take your freedom.
Devotee (4): Fish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The mind is so strong. Every fish in the water, although they are expert, they are always in danger. They are always afraid of being eaten by bigger fish. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra. The world is that the stronger is exploiting the weaker. Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Still, they are expert.
Indian man: Is it possible to visit other planets?
Prabhupāda: You have to be expert. Not by this machine.
Indian man: No. Astral traveling.
Prabhupāda: You have to prepare yourself.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death." Therefore the Ārya-samājī rascal was: "That is Hindu belief." Why Hindu belief? Does the Mohammedan do not grow old? That answer he could not give. He is such a rascal. And at last he said that "I am God."
Prabhupāda: Dangerous, huh? That is CIA? The CIA is maintained by government?
Harikeśa: Oh, yes. That's why everybody is very afraid.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they think that the government is maintained by the CIA. (laughing)
Harikeśa: The CIA even has laser beam guns where they can shoot somebody with this laser beam gun and they disintegrate completely, like they never existed. They shoot light out of a gun and it just goes-tssh-completely finished. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Photo?
Prabhupāda: Because the democracy. You will not get vote. As soon as you become honest man in the public office, nobody will be obedient to you, and it will be impossible for him to execute any... You see? The bank manager in Delhi—he was my friend—that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management." Bank manager said. "So I am afraid of the workers' union," he told me. So therefore good men, they do not go to this political post because they know they will not be able to do anything good. He will be surrounded by all rogues. Nobody will execute his order.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the future in Kali-yuga looks very bleak.
Prabhupāda: That means you are fool number one. That means you are fool number one. As soon as you say, "I am happy," it is immediately proved that you are a rascal, fool number one.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But everyone is afraid of death. They don't like the idea of dying. Put if off.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, you cure that first of all; then prolong life that there will be no death. Then you prolong life is... Make some understand. Can go this side?
Harikeśa: So it's not possible that anyone's happy? There is no possibility of anyone being happy.
Prabhupāda: No. One who thinks he is happy, he is number one fool.
Prabhupāda: No, then who is the scientist who is producing so many lives? You have not met him, but actually we see what you are trying to become successful in future, it is already there. Now, who is that big scientist? Why don't you find him out? Why don't you call him and give him Nobel Prize? Why you are taking? You are rascal. What is their answer? Already things are coming. There are so many lives, so that you are killing lives, being afraid of overpopulation. So he is creating so many lives that you think of it as overpopulation, overproduction. So what is your credit if you suppose in future you create one life? What credit you are going to give him? (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...experimentation, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: No, no. If you practice... Just like these boys. They are chanting "Hare Kṛṣṇa," so their mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. Man-mana. And they can do it without any being afraid by public criticism because they are mad-bhakta. They have become bhakta. Others, they will afraid: "I am such and such person. If I chant then what the others will speak?" (laughter) But a devotee is not afraid of anyone.
Indian (6): No, sir, but body is the temple of God. Vaiṣṇavas pray that...
Prabhupāda: That everyone... Dog is also worshiping the body.
Indian (6): (Hindi)
Saurabha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And then others things will be there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tīrtha Mahārāja, for the last fifty years, he did not do anything. Now he is afraid. You know Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī?
Bhāgavata: In Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He approached me that "You just have a big hall in the Yogapīṭha." I immediately accepted, that "Yes, if you give us the charge we can spend immediately ten lakhs." So Śrīdhara Mahārāja has said that "If it is gone to Swami Mahārāja, then there will be no trace of Tīrtha Mahārāja." Therefore he is trying for that. So I think we shall have, according to our original plan, the temple, and in that temple we shall display all these dolls: "Here is Vaikuṇṭhaloka, here is this loka, this loka, this loka." That will be... (break) ...we make some arrangement for exhibition of our books very nicely.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're going to have booths in Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That Tīrtha Mahārāja will not be able to show.
Prabhupāda: Well, they have no moral. They are killing so many persons. That is killing. That is not... They are expert in killing.
Saurabha: But they're afraid to take decision. They're very much confused.
Harikeśa: They're afraid to take a decision whether to kill them or not by pulling out the plug.
Prabhupāda: You take decision or not, he will be killed. That you cannot say. You are becoming very much moralist, whether to kill, but it will be killed. You cannot save him. That is not possible.
Harikeśa: So, they should just keep the machines going?
Prabhupāda: They understood from the Germans.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but it is said that the German scientist ran away to America because they were afraid of Hitler. If Hitler gets the secret of atom, he would bomb out the whole world.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hitler knew it.
Dr. Patel: No. They were not able to be successful to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. He knew it, everything, but he did not like to do it. He said. He said. He was gentleman. But these people are not gentlemen. He knew it perfectly well. He said that "I can smash the whole world, but I do not use that weapon." The Germans already discovered. But out of humanity they did not use it. And all the, your American, other countries, they have stolen from German ideas.
Devotee (1): His wife is very devoted. She has a small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. She is... (indistinct)
Tejās: He is a very dirty man. His wife sometimes likes to give even a little flower, and she is afraid he will beat her if she gives anything to the temple.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sign? Rāmacandra?
Tejās: Garuḍa and Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Tejās: Rāmacandra, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Garuḍa, and Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: (break) Unnecessarily there are so many parties, and they fight one another. This is democracy. Today is ekādaśī?
Prabhupāda: If he says, "No, none of my students are efficient," "Then why you are preaching? If you cannot make any one of your students as efficient, then why you are preaching, wasting your time?" No, no, these rascal, they, their face should not be seen even. They are so fallen.
Indian man: But now they all afraid from your stick.
Prabhupāda: Stick?
Indian man: Prabhupāda, they all thought many times that "Prabhupāda he criticize us." You know, they say. We said, "Yes, you are made to be criticized."
Devotee (3): Your stick is Bhagavad-gīta As It Is.
Prabhupāda: They say? They say?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is unhappy, America, India, god or beast everyone is unhappy. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya, bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7), with the mind and the senses he's trying for happiness, but there is no happiness. That is called illusion. That is called illusion. There is no happiness and he's trying to get happiness. Happiness is beyond the senses, material senses.
Dr. Patel: They are doing strategical fight. Strategically great. They should not repeat, but our army is doing strategical fight.
Prabhupāda: There is a Bengali saying-palabanata boineki(?): "Am I afraid of you, that I shall not go away?"
Dr. Patel: (laughing) I understand.
Prabhupāda: "I must go away. That is my independence!"
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says specifically, kṣatriya, yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam: "You must fight. Face."
Dr. Patel: That yuddhe must be also religious. Not...
| Page Title: | Afraid (Conversations 1974 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Apr, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=105, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 105 |