Rāmeśvara: He has another argument. He says that he's in the grip of māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: So even though he wants to go back to Godhead, he cannot be freed from the influence of māyā. Māyā is keeping him.
Prabhupāda: Unless you are fully surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), you cannot do it. Māyā will not leave you.
Rāmeśvara: But in order to fully surrender, you have to be free from māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā will keep you freed when you fully surrender. If you surrender to your wife and many women, māyā will not give you.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He's thinking freedom without Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: He says that māyā keeps making him full of material desires.
Prabhupāda: Yes, māyā must keep you, must keep you, must keep you because you are not surrendering fully.
Rāmeśvara: Then he says that "As long as I have all these material urges, I cannot control them. The māyā is insurmountable."
Prabhupāda: No. Māyā is not.... What māyā is? Punishing, that's all.
Hari-śauri: The desire is ours; it's simply either Kṛṣṇa or māyā.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to rectify your desires. That is bhakti.
Rāmeśvara: By chanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: How do you.... But then he says, "How do you develop the strength to keep chanting even when māyā is making you so attracted?"