Prabhupāda: So this is very important movement. Try to understand and broadcast it. It is not a sectarian, so-called religious movement. It is a scientific movement.
Reporter: You mean this movement in the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all our books, they are very nicely being accepted...
Reporter: Yeah, I have some of them.
Prabhupāda: ...by high-class professors, universities, libraries. They are all accepting. You will be surprised to know that we are selling books, according to our Indian currency, twenty lakhs of rupees per month. Out of that, we are spending eight to ten lakhs for all our centers.
Reporter: You have centers all over the world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, all over the world. In Europe we have got so many centers. Here in London we have got two centers. Similarly, Paris, Germany, four centers. Then Sweden, one?
Haṁsadūta: Sweden and Denmark.
Prabhupāda: Denmark, Holland, and Rome, then Switzerland, Geneva. So we have got several branches here.
Reporter: Are many people joining you?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just see, many people here. Each center we have got not less than fifty men, up to 250. Similarly, we have got in Australia and New Zealand, all over the world. In India we have got six. In India I have got six. In Vṛndāvana, Calcutta, Bombay, Navadvīpa, Hyderabad—in so many places.
Reporter: Is the work you recommend your followers to do purely spiritual, or do you...
Prabhupāda: This we simply say, that "God is great. You are servant. Don't be befooled that you are God. Don't be befooled like that." That is our program.
Reporter: Do they do anything like social work or other...
Prabhupāda: Yes, social work, this is the best social work. People are in ignorance, and we are giving them knowledge. Is it not the best social work? If you keep the man in ignorance and if you give him something... Just like your child. You simply give him to eat but no education. Then what is the benefit? Is that very good nice work, that you give your children nice food to become robust but no education? Is that very good nice work? People are, in this human form of life, especially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. So they are keeping them in darkness and teaching them technology, how to make cycle. That's all. The life is meant for understanding God, and they have been educated for making cycle and sewing machine. This is going on. Therefore there will be disaster. It is already there. Just like in America or any Western country, they have manufactured so many cars, and now they are flattering the Arabians, "Please give us oil." You see? Power crisis. And if they stop manufacturing, there is unemployment. And if they increase car, there is power shortage. So this dilemma, this modern civilization will have to meet this dilemma because they are going against the laws of God.
Reporter: You are not suggesting that all of that is just cut away completely, but that people...?
Prabhupāda: No, you require... First thing, you require to eat. So Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce sufficient grain, food grain, so that both the animal and the man, they will eat and become robust, stout, and strong. And they will be capable of working. So that is the first thing. But who is producing food grains? They are producing motor tires. When there is scarcity of food, will these motor tires help us? We shall eat motor tires? This is going on, so-called industrialization, producing unnecessary thing which is not required, and they are neglecting producing food grains. And I have estimated—I am traveling all over the world—that there are so much space even now that if you produce food grain, you can feed ten times of the population as it is. But they will not do that. They will create motorcars, and the whole street is congested. At any moment there can be accident, and if you have to go to consult a doctor, you have to go thirty miles off. Because the motorcar is there. I am diseased. I want to consult a doctor. So he must be in neighborhood. But I have to go thirty miles. And maybe, before going to the doctor, I may be finished, by accident. Anartha, it is called anartha. Anartha means unwanted things. So Bhāgavata says,
- anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
- bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
- lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
- cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
- (SB 1.7.6)
Because the rascals are simply creating unnecessary necessities of life, so their only remedy is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. But people do not know it. Therefore vidvān, Vyāsadeva, he has made the sātvata-saṁhitā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, anartha upaśamam, to stop them acting nonsensically, simply producing problem.
Reporter: So it's just a question of when.
Prabhupāda: The book is there. You learn, and you be learned. It is already there.
Reporter: Do you foresee a time coming when people will realize...
Prabhupāda: It has already come, disaster.
Reporter: No, I mean a time coming when disaster is averted and people realize...
Prabhupāda: No, unless you take the real instruction, how you can stop disaster? You must agree to take the real instruction. If you don't agree, then you suffer. That is your business. But the remedy is there. The instruction is there. Just like Bhagavad-gītā says, "Produce food grain." The remedy is there. But you will not produce food grain; you will produce motorcar. Then you must suffer.
Reporter: But do you foresee a time when many people will receive that remedy?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but the remedy is there. If you like, you can take it. If a man is suffering from some disease, the remedy is there, the physician is there, but if he does not take advantage, then that is his business. What can be done? This is very nice... Every Bhāgavata, every line is so important.
- anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād
- bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje
- lokasyājānato vidvāṁś
- cakre sātvata-saṁhitām
- (SB 1.7.6)
Those who are high-grade personalities, they are always thinking, "How these rascals will be happy?" Their only business is that. But their instruction is not being accepted. That is the difficulty. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha. This word, mūḍha, means rascals. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ (BG 7.15). The lowest of the mankind, miscreants and rascals, these class of men will not accept God as the supreme. But He is... Kṛṣṇa is speaking, "Rascal." One may protest that "There are so many educated men. They are all rascals?" But that is also confirmed: "Yes, they are rascals." Why? māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Their real knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy." māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Why it is done? Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have accepted this theory 'There is no God.' " That is the difficulty. Āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ. They are under the control. How you can say there is no God? Are you free? Are you independent? What do you think? Are you independent of God?
Reporter: I guess we're not independent of our death.
Prabhupāda: You want to be independent?
Haṁsadūta: He says that "I guess we are not independent of our death."
Prabhupāda: That's it. Very... Thank you. (laughter) That is intelligence. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not accepting God in lifetime, they will meet God, death. Death is another form of God. That they cannot deny. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He simply defied God, and Nṛsiṁha-deva came, finished everything within a second.
Reporter: Is this something where we can sort of experience death while we are still alive?
Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.
Reporter: A dog?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)
Reporter: Why a dog?
Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?
Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.
Reporter: If I...?
Prabhupāda: If you surrender.
Reporter: Surrender.
Prabhupāda: Then you can check.
Reporter: And the only way to surrender is to accept this...
Prabhupāda: Otherwise there is no certainty. You can become demigod also. You can become higher planetary... But you have to change your body. Either you become dog or you can become demigod, but change your body, that is fact.
Reporter: You mean it always comes back as some form of animal?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?
Haṁsadūta: Whether you always return as an animal?
Prabhupāda: No, not always. There are 8,400,000 forms of life.
Reporter: A hundred thousand.
Prabhupāda: Eight million.
Reporter: Oh.
Prabhupāda: You have to accept one of them. That is according to your quality.
Reporter: Qualities.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: The quality of my life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you infect a certain type of disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, there are three qualities of the material nature. So as you associate with that quality, you get a similar body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). How one is getting better life, one is getting worse life, the reason is associating, infecting the different types of modes of nature. That education we have no... There is no such education, what kind of association we should make so that we can better life or we can go back to home, back to God. There is no such education. They are living like cats and dogs and going to be cats and dogs.
Reporter: Do I understand that the children in your school in Texas, that they're brought up in what you consider spiritual consciousness...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Reporter: Will they be virtually living outside...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Just like we are training engineer, similarly, a class of men, those who are very intelligent, they should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. They should be trained up how to speak truth any circumstance. Even to the enemy he will speak truth. This requires training, not that foolishly, a cats' and dogs' life. What is the value of this life? The modern civilization, they do not know how to live. They are simply interested in eating, and that's also any nonsense eating. But according to Vedic civilization, "This eating is first class. This eating is second class. This eating is third class. This eating is fourth class." So many things required to correct the mistaken way of civilization. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporter: And is the correct way of living merely a way of doing, actually, a sort of higher state of consciousness where you're experiencing something different to...
Prabhupāda: Experience, why? If we live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why shall we experience differently? There is no question of.
Reporter: You're not experiencing differently.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like we are teaching these boys how to live, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then... (to devotees:) What is our program, just explain. What is our program in the temple from the early in the morning.
Haṁsadūta: Rising at 3:30, take bath, then go to the temple for kīrtana and lecture. Then chant our rounds, take breakfast, and then do duties.
Reporter: What time do you take breakfast?
Haṁsadūta: 8:00, 8:30. So before taking breakfast, we are already awake four hours. Most people sleep till eight.
Reporter: And then through the day?
Haṁsadūta: Through the day we're engaged. Some people are typing; some people are painting; some people are preaching; some people are printing books. We do everything, because this society is complete. As Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you do as work, whatever you eat, whatever you give away, everything should be done as an offering unto Me. By this principle of work you are freed from all sinful reaction and you come to Me." So the goal of life, or the goal of this society, or human society, should be to go back home, back to Godhead, back to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: We are going to have the next body. That's a fact. So Bhagavad-gītā says that how you can have the next body.
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
- mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
- (BG 9.25)
"So you can go to the higher planetary system. Prepare yourself in that way. You can go to the pitṛloka. You can remain within this world. And you can come to Me also." So if I have to prepare myself for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? Why unnecessarily go to the other planets or to the dogs and cats? Prepare in such a way that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). No more material body. You go back to home, back... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the best. After all, you have to prepare yourself for the next body. So why not prepare yourself for the next body as good as Kṛṣṇa's? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). It is very intelligent movement. Any intelligent man should take it very seriously. If I have to prepare for my next life, why not prepare next life—just we are talking with you, you can go and talk with Kṛṣṇa. You can dance with Kṛṣṇa. You can eat with Kṛṣṇa. You can play with Kṛṣṇa. If there is such possibility, why should we waste our time in different way? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, we are going to die. And tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You have to accept another body, just you have already accepted. Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. We have accepted a different body. I was a child. Now I have got different body. So we are accepting different body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, you accept another body after death. Now what that body should be, everything is there.
- ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā
- madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
- jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā
- adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
- (BG 14.18)
If you associate, infect tamasic, ignorance, then you go down and down, become animal. And if you associate with goodness, then you go higher planetary system, even up to God. And if you infect rājo-guṇa, passion, then you remain here. Everything is there. Simply we have to accept and do it nicely. Then our life is successful. That we are teaching. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have no other question? Finished?
Reporter: Yeah, I've run out of questions.
Prabhupāda: All questions are answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, and you will get all answer, all problems solved. Unfortunately, the so-called politicians and scholars, they misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā and ruin their career and misguide others. That is going on. All rascals are doing that. "This word means this," as if Kṛṣṇa left this word to be explained by a rascal. This is going on. He does not think of his position, that at any moment he will be kicked out of this platform of so-called leadership, so-called educated teacher, and he is commenting on the words of Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. He does not understand his position, that "What I am?"
Reporter: How does Kṛṣṇa consciousness relate to the Hindu religion? Because that is also based on the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not meant for the Hindus, but Kṛṣṇa appeared in Hindustan. Therefore it is the duty of all Hindus to know Kṛṣṇa first. And they also conscious. Every Hindu knows Kṛṣṇa. Every Hindu observes the Janmāṣṭamī, Kṛṣṇa's birthday. But they are not very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa as a follower. Just like Christian. They admit they are Christian but don't follow the Christian principles. So that Hindus are also like that. Nobody is following Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior person or superior position than Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And "God" means that. In the dictionary "God" means the Supreme Being. Supreme Being means nobody is greater than Him; nobody is equal to Him. That is called supreme. So here God personally says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). But this rascal will not accept. They will say, "No, here is another dini-kṛṣṇa." They will bring one competitor. That is going on. "God" means there cannot be any competitor. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. But they will bring so many competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa alone will be God?" This is the position of the modern Hindus. They have lost their own culture, and they wanted to imitate Western culture. That they could not do, neither they could maintain their own culture. Therefore in the wilderness, very precarious condition.
Reporter: So thanks very much indeed for talking to me.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Give him some prasādam. This is Kṛṣṇa's prasāda.
Reporter: Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. (guest leaves)