View source for What if they say Caitanya Mahaprabhu was a devotee, He worshiped the Supreme Lord, kirtana, but His disciples say He's God?

<div id="compilation">
<div id="facts">
{{terms|"What if they say Caitanya Mahaprabhu was a devotee, He worshiped the Supreme Lord, kirtana, but His disciples say He's God"}}
{{notes|}}
{{compiler|MadhuGopaldas}}
{{complete|ALL}}
{{first|16Jul11}}
{{last|16Jul11}}
{{totals_by_section|BG=0|SB=0|CC=0|OB=0|Lec=0|Con=1|Let=0}}
{{total|1}}
{{toc right}}
[[Category:Questions asked to Srila Prabhupada]]
[[Category:Questions asked to SP... 1975]]
</div>
<div id="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="section" sec_index="5" parent="compilation" text="Conversations and Morning Walks"><h2>Conversations and Morning Walks</h2>
</div>
<div id="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" class="sub_section" sec_index="8" parent="Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" text="1975 Conversations and Morning Walks"><h3>1975 Conversations and Morning Walks</h3>
</div>
<div id="ConversationwithDevoteesMarch311975Mayapur_0" class="quote" parent="1975_Conversations_and_Morning_Walks" book="Con" index="39" link="Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur" link_text="Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur">
<div class="heading">No. That... Why do you...? I have already said that He's supported by śāstra. He's supported by śāstra. He's supported by learned scholars, means, in the transcendental scholars. And supported by guru. We follow our guru. So guru says; śāstra says; saintly persons say. Therefore we accept.
</div>
<span class="link">[[Vanisource:Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur|Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur]]: </span><div class="text"><p style="display: inline;">Acyutānanda: ...stuff His ears up when anyone would refer to Him as God. He wants to be known as a devotee. But we worship Him as God, in the same line as Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. So how do we understand that?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm?</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: Lord Caitanya doesn't want to be praised as God, but we worship Him as such.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is a warning to the future fools and rascals that even God does not like to be addressed as God. But we address Him as God on the strength of śāstra. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣā kṛṣṇaṁ saṅgo-paṅgastra... ([[Vanisource:SB 11.5.32|SB 11.5.32]]), yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ. Here is the incarnation of God. That is... Śāstra says. So out of His humbleness, He may say like that, but we should know by following the ācāryas, by śāstra. Sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya. Guru accepts Him God; śāstra accepts Him God; sādhu accepts Him God.</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: The people say that just like Rāmakrishna, the disciples presented Him as God, but He never said He was God.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: But then where is the śāstra? Three things: the devotee or saintly person, śāstra and guru. He has no guru. He has no support from the śāstra. (laughs) So he's a fool, rascal number one, and he is God. He was a illiterate priest. He had no knowledge of śāstra. Besides that, in the śāstra it is said that "Those who are worshiping other demigods, their intelligence is lost." So he was worshiping Kālī. So he had no intelligence or spiritual realization, and he became God? So these things can be accepted by other fools and rascals. But those who follow śāstra, they will reject immediately.</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: What if they say Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a devotee, He worshiped the Supreme Lord, kīrtana, but His disciples say He's God?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: Simply the disciples have said He's God.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. That... Why do you...? I have already said that He's supported by śāstra. He's supported by śāstra. He's supported by learned scholars, means, in the transcendental scholars. And supported by guru. We follow our guru. So guru says; śāstra says; saintly persons say. Therefore we accept.</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: They interpret that verse in another way.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That, the rascals do. They are... What is their value? When these rascals says that worshiping Kālī, one becomes God...</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: No. No. Vaiṣṇavas.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Eh?</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: The Rāmānuja and the Madhva, they say, kṛṣṇa-varṇam means "black." Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣa kṛṣṇam: ([[Vanisource:SB 11.5.32|SB 11.5.32]]) "But He is effulgent."</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Hm? No. We should follow our ācāryas. Why...</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: No, but how to convince them that? They will never accept Cai...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: No. "You are also ācārya, but we have got our own ācārya. Why should I follow you?"</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: But how to convince them?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Convince means they will not be convinced. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam, kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati. One who is describing Kṛṣṇa, that is kṛṣṇa-varṇa. And kṛṣṇa-varṇa does not mean black. And again it is confirmed, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. So how can they say, "black"? By complexion, He is akṛṣṇa. So how they can interpret that He's black?</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: That it says... They interpret kṛṣṇa-varṇam...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam means kṛṣṇaṁ varṇayati iti kṛṣṇa-varṇam. If it is kṛṣṇa-varṇa, then how it is again confirmed, tviṣā akṛṣṇa?</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: That is His effulgence.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That is his interpretation. Tviṣā, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ, śuklo raktas tathā pitaḥ idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. So God has other colors also. White and red and yellow. So here is yellow. Tviṣā akṛṣṇa. So we have to follow Jīva Gosvāmī. What these rascals, we have to follow? We don't follow. If you have got a interpretation, we have got better interpretation. Why shall I accept you? My mother says, "Here is your father." I shall accept that, or somebody says, "Here is your father" Whom shall I accept? Mother's version. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam ([[Vanisource:BG 4.2|BG 4.2]]). We should accept the paramparā ācāryas, not whimsically anyone's interpretation you have to accept.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it's very clear that if one does not accept Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then actually he cannot worship Kṛṣṇa properly.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's a fact.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now just to carry on with Acyutānanda Mahārāja's point, it would seem then that the Rāmānujis and the Madhvites, they don't accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So how can they possibly...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Therefore they cannot understand the higher rasas.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Unnata-ujjvala-rasam, they cannot understand.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they can understand śānta-rasa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Yes.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dāsya-rasa.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That's all.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not sākhya.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Not more than that. They cannot meditate. There is no paternal rasa or madhurya-rasa in their community.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the Vallabhites, they also... Actually they don't accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They say Vallabhācārya is their Mahāprabhu. And they worship in...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I know that. So actually...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: He was simply proud of his education. He had no realization.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You explained that...</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: Do they worship in vātsalya-rasa or just show?</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Show, formality.</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: It's not genuine.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not genuine.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Some of them say that "Kṛṣṇa, becoming, before becoming polluted." They say like that.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That means childhood age, there is no pollution, and youthhood age, Kṛṣṇa's, it was polluted by the gopīs. This is their version. Kṛṣṇa becomes polluted.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they say like that.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Do they say like that?</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I have spoken to them, in Hyderabad, that Bāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa. And another thing they say is that Rādhārāṇī's name is not mentioned in Bhāgavata. So this whole emphasis on Rādhā is not correct.</p>
<p>Acyutānanda: Is not correct.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: That means they cannot understand rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛti. They cannot understand. And therefore in their community you won't find any high-class devotee. Simply official sentiment. That's all.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I... Is Vallabhācārya...? So he cannot be considered in proper line.</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: Because Vallabhācārya was rejected by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.</p>
<p>Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's in the line with...</p>
<p>Prabhupāda: He accepted him as learned scholar, but He did not accept him as very highly realized soul.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>