Prabhupāda: "We are becoming happy." He's becoming implicated in karma, cheating karma, and losing the opportunity of human life. Instead of applying his energy and intelligence how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and get out of this, he is becoming expert in cheating and suffering. Then you become mouse. Unless you cheat, you cannot eat even.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the leaders of government, they are encouraging like that. Instead of encouraging honesty and work according to the varṇas, cātur-varṇyam, they are doing like this to become . . .
Prabhupāda: There is no honesty all over the world. It is forgotten. "These are primitive," they say. "Now, the honesty, to become pious, to become religious, these are simply primitive idea." We have to open this. That will be a specific subject matter of that . . . but we have to write very nicely. Everything is based on tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rascals also argue that . . . the materialists argue that we're being cheated.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialists' argument is that we are being cheated by being promised something imaginary.
Prabhupāda: We are not discussing that. But you are cheating—that is practical. You are cheating. Your government is cheating, giving a piece of paper, cheating me that "You get hundred rupees."