Without knowledge (Conversations)

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "without knowledge" or "without * knowledge"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: That you have to become a serious student.

Yoko Ono: Well, I mean, what do you mean by serious student? Maybe everybody, all of us are serious anyway. I mean, we're born serious or born, you know, unserious.

Prabhupāda: Then you must know what is distinction between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, if you are serious student.

Yoko Ono: But does it depend on knowledge? I mean, the final judgement that you make?

Prabhupāda: Everything depends on knowledge. Without knowledge how can we make progress? Student means to acquire knowledge. Serious student means to acquire knowledge.

Yoko Ono: But not always the knowledgeable one are the ones who...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: A householder living with family, husband, wife, children, if they are following strictly the regulative principles—gṛhastha āśrama. Similarly, retired life, if he is following the regulative principles—the vānaprastha āśrama. Similarly, a renounced life, sannyāsa, if he is following the regulative principles, that is sannyāsa āśrama. Not that imitating somebody, I put on a saffron dress and I become a sannyāsī and by begging I live. This has killed the whole Hindu society or the sanātana-dharma society. Unqualified persons, they do not know the regulative principles but for solution of economic problem they dress themselves. This is Kali-yuga. They will pass on simply by the dress without any knowledge. So here also, although Ajamila was born of a brāhmaṇa father and he was strictly following the regulative principles of a brāhmaṇa—that will be stated—but he fell. He fell in love with a prostitute And therefore his characters were lost. Naṣṭa-sadācāraḥ. The reason is why? Dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. Because he associated with a prostitute, therefore his all regulative principles became lost. And as soon as you are lost of regulative principles then you take to all kinds of sinful activities.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.

Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.

Dr. Weir: Well, I think that's being a bit hard when a person is not... If he's tried his best to do something and he doesn't intend to mislead, to call that cheating is a bit hard.

Prabhupāda: No, even if not intend, but if you misguide some way or other without sufficient knowledge, that is also cheating.

Dr. Weir: Well, we would say, using the English language properly, that's a misuse of the word.

Prabhupāda: But, generally, if I'm not in perfect knowledge, if I guide you, that is, according to Vedic version that is cheating. You must be confident of the knowledge perfectly. Then if you deliver the knowledge that is right. Just like our position is that we say what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is God. So we say what Kṛṣṇa says. We don't say anything which does not Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa does not say. Therefore you are confident that we are delivering the right message. We don't manufacture our own philosophy or words. We simply say, "Kṛṣṇa says, 'sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).' " Kṛṣṇa, God, says that you simply surrender unto Me, I take charge of you. We are preaching the same philosophy. That you surrender to God and you'll become happy because God takes charge of you. We don't manufacture our word. That is not cheating.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So there is a cause. That means there is a cause. We have to accept the cause. So that cause, we go further till we find out the cause of all causes.

Dr. Weir: You see, what worries me, Swami, is that there is two ways of making sure (indistinct), each containing this necessity of eating. Now, some people eat (indistinct). They digest it, they live perfectly healthily. They know nothing about carbohydrates, proteins and fats. They know nothing about saliva. They know nothing about enzymes or digestion. Well they live quite satisfactory lives. Other people start worrying about whether they've got the right amount of calories, the right amount of vitamins, whether they're taking enough water at the meal or not. One wonders that if you're starting to, worrying about that, it means somehow you're less perfect than the person who's able to digest quite happily without the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Well, if you say like that, the majority of living entities, they are eating without this knowledge of enzyme and other things. So if you take votes the votes are greater. Just like human being, a few human beings are interested in analyzing this enzyme. But the human beings are very small quantity. There are 8,400,000 species of life. They're eating with a natural way and they're quite healthy.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: You said... I told you I teach science. You had said something about teaching, or teaching of science.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teaching, unless you have got perfect knowledge how you can teach? That is our proposition.

Bob: Without perfect knowledge, though, you can teach what knowledge you have.

Prabhupāda: No, that is cheating. That is not teaching, that is cheating. Just like the scientists said, "There was a chunk, and the creation took place, perhaps..." What is this? Simply cheating. It is not teaching, it is cheating.

Bob: Let me say what else you said this morning that was interesting. I asked him about miracles, and Prabhupāda said that only a fool would believe in miracles because... Let us say you are a child and an adult lifts this table. That's a miracle. Or you're a chemist, and you combine acid and base and make smoke, an explosion or whatever. To somebody ignorant, that's a miracle. And for everything there's a process. And so when you see a miracle, it's just ignorance of the process. So that only a fool would believe in miracles, and, you correct me if I say wrong...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bob: ...that when Jesus came, the people then were somewhat more ignorant and needed miracles as aid. Was that... I wasn't sure if that's quite what you said.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Miracle means ignorant.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the highest miracle man.

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is stated by Kuntī.

Bob: Without perfect knowledge, can I not teach some things? For example, I may...

Prabhupāda: You can teach up to that, which point you know.

Bob: But should not claim to teach more than I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is cheating.

Yaśodānandana: In other words, you can't teach the truth...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yaśodānandana: ...you can't teach the truth with partial knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not possible by any human being. Because any human being, his senses are imperfect. So how he can teach perfect knowledge? Just like you see the sun like a disc. You have no means to approach the sun. If you say, "We can see the sun by telescope and this and that," that is also made by you. And you are imperfect, your instrument is imperfect. Because that telescope you can say that you are seeing, but that machine is made by you, and you are imperfect. How your machine can be perfect? Therefore your knowledge of the sun is imperfect. So you don't teach about sun unless you have got perfect. That is cheating.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: And then he may not go to hell.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You save him from going to hell. Because a farthing spent for Kṛṣṇa it will be accounted, "Oh, this man has given a farthing." This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti means doing pious activities without knowledge. So we give everyone chance to act very piously without his knowledge. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṟṇāṁ gṛhīṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Dīna-cetasām. They're very poor in their thought. Therefore the saintly persons work(?) just to enlighten him little, to give him chance to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is saintly person's study.

Bob: That is what?

Prabhupāda: But if he takes money from other and utilizes for his sense gratification, then he goes to hell. Then it is finished. Then he's a cheater. Actually, he is criminal. You cannot take money, a farthing from anyone. (break)

Bob: I think of people I know who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa means God.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man. Is that correct? What do you think, Girirāja?

Girirāja: Yes.

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: I have already explained our philosophy.

Author: I'm sorry, not explain. Describe, I think, is a rather better word.

Prabhupāda: That philosophy, if you want to know more, then we can speak more. But that is the outlines of the philosophy, that people, without knowledge of his identification, they are misled, being misled. And that is very risky. Risky means that you have got this opportunity of understanding your position and get out of the difficulties of birth, death, old age, and disease. If you do not properly use this opportunity and again you become cats and dogs, then are you not misled? So present civilization is misleading. They are concerned with a few years enjoyment, so-called enjoyment. Suppose you are Australian or American. You have got very nice status in your country, good house, good facility, good money, and that's all right. But after your death, when you have to quit this subtle atmosphere, then after your death what is happening to you, you are not concerned to know? If you are eternal, if you are eternal, then suppose you have got this shirt and coat. When it is torn down, when it is old enough, you have to give it up. Then you have to purchase another shirt and coat. So are you not prepared for that, "What kind of shirt and coat I shall have?"

Author: No, I'm not.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Kṛṣṇa means Viṣṇu-tattva. So Viṣṇu-tattva has many forms. So any Viṣṇu form will do.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs. 5.39)

Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. He has got different forms, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many other forms, Govinda, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even. Kṛṣṇa was at that time a boy. But they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. Kṛṣṇa was their everything. And therefore their position is the topmost. So somehow or other, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. Otherwise not. So we do it knowingly or unknowingly; the effect is the same. Fire you touch knowingly or unknowingly; it will act. It is not that if a child touches fire without knowing, knowledge, it is not that fire will not burn. And similarly... That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. Some way or other, come to Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa-kāmāt. Kṛṣṇa was very beautiful, so they wanted to associate with Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). They are blind. They do not know about self. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Everyone is born fool. So fool's activities means defeat. So human life, although born fool, they should have knowledge. Without knowledge all their activities are defeat of life, parābhava. So long he is not inquisitive to understand what is his self, whatever he is doing, it is simply for his defeat, parābhava.

Guest (2): One thing I have been thinking for years together, but I could never understand it. In Bhagavad-gītā when Lord Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna asks a question, kena prayukto 'yaṁ pāpaṁ carati pūruṣaḥ. Lord Kṛṣṇa says, kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. The kāma... Where is the beginning of this kāma?

Prabhupāda: Rajo-guṇa. That is stated, rajo-guṇa. (Hindi) Rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Therefore you have to come to the sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa, to come to the sattva-guṇa, you have to sāttvika vikāra (Hindi)... They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). That is sattva-guṇa. Satyaṁ śaucam.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So this is common sense. If things are going on, everything is going on so nicely, how you can say there is no management, there is no brain? How you can say? What is this nonsense? How you can say there is no God? Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). These are the rascal, atheist proposition, asatyam. There is no proof in it. Zero. From zero it has come. Just see nonsense. Does anything come out of zero? You assemble zero, many millions of zero in one place, but still it is zero. Do you think that if you make zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, million times, has it any value? How do they conclude from zero such a management, cosmic manifestation has come? The flower is coming out nicely in its own way. The tree is coming. Human being is coming. Everything is in order. And there is no management. How much rascaldom. Just see. So these atheist class, they're rascals, mūḍhāḥ, third-class men without any knowledge. Na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ. I've already explained. Using the merit for sinful activities, they're called duṣkṛtiḥ. And mūḍhāḥ, these rascals, who cannot understand how the management is going on, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ means... Nara means human being. Adhama means the lowest, because the lowest of the mankind. The highest of the mankind means who has the knowledge of the Supreme.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease. That is perfection. But people are not given that chance, the modern education, modern civilization. They've no knowledge; they do not know that there is life after death, although it is a simple fact. Just like in our present existence we have got past, present and future. Just like you are young man, you have your past. You are a child, or a boy, now that is past. Present, you are young man, and in future you are expecting to become old man. So as you have got past, present and future, similarly, I'm old man, I've got my past life, why not future? What is the reason to deny it? Past, present, future, that is the time calculation. I had my past, I've now present, and why is my future? They do not care for the future. They're so blind. There must be future. So what I'm doing for the future? Just like in this life we collect some money, keep in the bank balance so that in future, old age, I may not be in difficulty. Similarly, what a human being should do for his future life? That he does not know, although past, present, future is there. So this is foolishness. He doesn't care for the future. So one who is foolish, without any knowledge of the future, whatever he's doing is defeated—in ignorance, because it is ignorance. Just like a boy does not take education, does not think of future. That is not very good. We must be prepared for the future, his next life.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: It must be so. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. How a human being can kill another human being or another animal unnecessarily? And if you kill, there is law, life for life. But they have made laws for human beings. When an animal is killed, he's not criminal. But in the God laws you cannot avoid that. If you have killed an ant, you must be shot. That is God's law. You can avoid man-made law, but you cannot avoid God-made law. That you cannot do. You must be responsible. If you kill an ant even without knowledge, you are responsible. Such subtle laws are there. So we must know our responsibility. Without knowledge, if we kill, we are responsible. And with knowledge, there is no question. Where is that culture? They advertise, "Live and let live." What is that? Do they do that? Actually? They want to live at the expense of others. Why not let live others? Where is that culture?

Śyāmasundara: Now there is a famous cinema being shown called "Live and Let Die."

Prabhupāda: That is good culture. Yes.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: You can translate that story? (French) (to Prabhupāda:) She went there to buy her foodstuffs?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: So you are thinking in that way. "How I shall provide this population?" That is the old woman's crying. Without sufficient knowledge. We do not believe in this, all rascaldom. We believe in God. If God can create... just like animals. They do not cry. They're increasing. The hogs and dogs, even lower animals... This is demonic economy. A man is holding thousands of acres of land and he's thinking of overpopulation. Why not he distributes the thousands of acres of land to the people? They would produce their own food. That is the, that is the defect of so-called socialism. But here we give a right type of socialism.

Yogeśvara: He thinks he has a fairly clear idea of what our program is now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is a lot of politics in it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Seventy.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Normal chemicals must be. Then of the whole world... The material world is made of chemicals. So wherever you go and see, the chemicals in different, what is called, element, they are present. You cannot see but chemicals because you have no eyes to see the soul. So you simply see the chemicals which is produced by the soul. Just like anything you keep for some time, when it is decomposed, you find so many chemicals, extra. So now they are mistaking. The chemicals are not... They are effects, they are not cause. When a thing is decomposed, you'll find so many extra chemicals. Our point is that because a thing is decomposed, so many chemicals come out, not that on account of these chemicals it has given... A dead body. A dead body—not that because the chemicals have come, therefore he is dead, no. Because the body is dead, therefore so many chemicals have been produced. Try to convince this rascal like that, that "You are seeing the extra chemicals. They are not cause, they are effect." Sometimes when a rascal cannot understand two things, which is cause and which is effect, they misunderstand effect as cause or cause and effect. That is imperfect knowledge, illusion, taking the effect as cause. That is their mistake. Whole basic principle of their knowledge is mistake, illusion, on account of imperfect senses, and they are cheating. On account of imperfect senses, they cannot understand what is cause and what is effect. And without knowledge, they have become teacher. Therefore they are not teacher but cheater. This is the conclusion.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why we experience from very, our childhood that I feel pain when somebody hits me.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like we all know that "I am not this body." But why you are covering the body? So long you are in material condition, you have to do that. The same example. Although you are not the motorcar, but if there is some accident, you have to take care of it, because you have to work on it. Therefore this body, although I am not this body, I have to work in this material world with this body. That is the vehicle. You cannot neglect it, neither you become identified. This is knowledge. Yuktāhāra-vihāraś ca. That is recommended, yuktāhāra, "as much as necessity." But these people, they are taking the body as everything. They have no information of the soul.

Rūpānuga: They cannot tolerate it. Like the prisoner cannot tolerate being in the prison house without knowledge. They cannot get along.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So our consciousness is affected by our conditioning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the perfect consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Duḥkhe sab hari bhaje. When one is distressed, there is sense of God consciousness, but if they continue it even in their happiness, then it is all right.

Prajāpati: They must have knowledge though, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: But in happiness they forget. (aside:) Don't keep so near.

Prajāpati: Without knowledge their sentiment is just worthless.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: That's a fact. In American history, whenever there was economic prosperity, always increase in sense gratification. Historically speaking, in America, whenever there was increase in prosperity, there was a trend towards irreligion and sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Luxury leads to poverty. (break) ...a living man, but if you are actually interested, why don't you do it, organized way. Sentiment, it is good, but if you do not understand the science, sentiment may be for the time being. Sentiment is sentiment. That will not act. They are admitting sinful activities?

Prajāpati: Yes, they are admitting that... They are an abyss of moral decay.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: So by that, there's a emblem of the theosophical colony.

Prabhupāda: I see. Oh, yes, yes. (break) One old lady... You know, in the villages there is fair, or market. So in the morning she saw that so many hundreds of men have assembled. So one lady of that village, she thought that "They have become my guests." So she began to cry and was asking his son, her son, "Oh, how I can accommodate so many people? How can I receive them as guests?" So the son said, "My dear mother, don't be agitated. In the evening you come." So in the evening when she come, there was nobody. There was nobody, because a marketplace. So this botheration is just like the old lady. After seeing so many men, she is agitated. And in the evening there is none. So it requires intelligence, that "They are coming and going. Why I should be bothered about that? Let me do my duty as human being." That is required. (Hindi:) Ek sat me dekhila. (break) ...unlimited number of living entities. Ananta. Ananta means you cannot count. Within your body, within your stool, there are millions of living entities. They are provided, maintained, by your stool, by your urine. So why do you bother? If your stool and urine can provide so many living entities, why you bother yourself? (Hindi) You do your duty as human being. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ sa... Don't become animal. That is required. (Hindi) (break) ...the essence of knowledge. People are diverted in so many ways. Human duty is... (Hindi) (break) That is human duty. Be surrendered to God. That is your duty. Then everything will come automatically. Everything will come. And without knowledge, how you can take care? That is not possible.

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Nitāi: There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge. The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogīs and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman.

Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti or devotional service is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir utpātāyaiva kalpate.

(Brs. 1.2.101)

"Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Nārada Pañcarātra, etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society."

It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramātmā realized yogī to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of Mother Yaśodā or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Kṛṣṇa: "muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ," "māṁ tu veda na kaścana." "No one knows Me as I am," the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then "sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ." "Such a great soul is very rare." Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Kṛṣṇa as He is (tattvataḥ), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyāiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

(Brs. 1.2.234)

"No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him." (Padma Purāṇa)

Prabhupāda: So the position is, that hardly, out of many millions, one can actually understand what is God. So our field of activity is everywhere in that sense, not in this particular and that particular... Because in truth hardly very few people understands what is God.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: No difference.

Prabhupāda: That's it. He is a dog actually, and he is thinking "That I am very advanced, civilized." This is the position. Because he has no knowledge. Without knowledge, there is no difference between dog and man. Dog is sleeping on the street very comfortably and you are sleeping on the top of the skyscraper building, taking three dozen pills. (laughter) So what is your civilization? Because for want of knowledge they cannot understand that "What is our actual position. The dog is an animal. He sleeps very comfortably on the street, and I have spent so much money, but I cannot sleep without this tranquilizer." So where is your advancement? Such a nonsense he is.

Devotee: No control.

Prabhupāda: No. No knowledge. That is the difficulty.

Dhanañjaya: And no ability even to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No, because they have no knowledge. How we can enjoy life without knowledge? They also accept that for this comfortable situation they require knowledge. The engineering knowledge, this knowledge, that knowledge. But that knowledge is not sufficient. You require another knowledge. That you are lacking. You are deficient in that knowledge, self-realization. That is the defect. This knowledge will not help you. For eating, sleeping knowledge, this child, if I give him some eatable, immediately he knows the knowledge, "This is eatable. I shall capture it and put it in the mouth." It doesn't require any education. That is natural. If I love this child, he will respond. This knowledge is already there. Even a dog, "Tch, tch, tch, come on, come on," he will come. So for this eating, sleeping, mating, the knowledge is there in the animals, in the children. That doesn't require any advanced knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (To child) Come on. Come on, yes. Very intelligent. (laughing) Thank you very much.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that for example he could listen to everything that you were saying, and then he could repeat it, and someone might say to him that "Oh, you are an expert. You are a master," but actually he's not. He's simply repeating.

Prabhupāda: No, this is example. By receiving a knowledge, you must corroborate by your knowledge or by your experience, by the method. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that Arjuna was declining to fight in the war. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You are simply lamenting on this body, but you do not know what is the active principle of the body." So this you can understand very nicely, that everyone is working for this body, but nobody knows what the active principle of the body. Without the active principle of the body, this body, alive or dead, is the same thing, lump of matter. So Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as teacher; therefore He is chastising him that "You are talking like a learned man, but you are lamenting on this body, but no learned man laments on this body, either dead or alive." Because without the knowledge of the active principle which is moving the body, what is the use of simply understanding the bodily construction? The medical science knows the construction of the body, anatomy, physiology, the bone, this muscle, the blood and everything, but he does not know what is the active principle. When the active principle gone, they cannot repair it. So there may be vast advancement of medical science, but if the medical science cannot check birth, death, old age and disease, then what is the use of it? It may have some temporary use, but actually it is not science. Nobody wants to die. Is there medical science which can stop death? So that knowledge may be temporary, beneficial, but ultimately, it is not the knowledge. I am anxious for not dying. Nobody wants to die. This is my anxiety. And where is that science, medical science? So we are satisfied with some temporary knowledge. We have no ultimate knowledge. And because it is very difficult subject matter, we have avoided it very carefully.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that he thinks this will increase our problem because psychologically it's bad that nature is so big and we're so tiny.

Prabhupāda: Well, you have already increased your problem.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How?

Prabhupāda: There is no solution. There is no solution. You have no solution for anything, so you have increased your problems. Without perfect knowledge, you'll simply increase your problems. That's all.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): How can we get this perfect knowledge and how can we practice it if we're like prisoners?

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. You have to go to the perfect person.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said first of all that he asked you to give evidence, but that you did not. You said that you'd have evidence, but you did not give it.

Prabhupāda: Here is evidence. I have said that Kṛṣṇa says the proprietor lives within the body. Now you just try to understand and you will find that yes, this body is not the... This is a property. The proprietor is within. That is perfect knowledge. Just like a big mill going on. But if somebody does not find out the proprietor, then does it mean that there is no proprietor?

Professor: I am the owner of my own self.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: How it is scientific? Life is already there. Not that the life production is depending on your future scientific research. The life is already going there, hundreds and thousands and millions. You say that you do not know. Why you are claiming that "In future we shall know"? There is no need of your knowing, it is already going on. You do not know. That is your position. And still, you are declaring yourself as scientist. You are misleading. You can make a fool's paradise, that is another thing. But you do not know at the present moment, but the things are going on. Life is being produced without your knowledge. So you admit that you have no knowledge. And without having knowledge, you are declaring yourself as scientist—how much cheating it is. It is not that it is depending on your future knowledge. It is already going on. Life is being produced. So if you think that in future, by chemical combination you will produce life, so that chemical composition is already there, going on. So you have to find out who is that scientist, not that chemical composition. Who is that scientist who is producing so many lives and chemicals? That is real intelligence.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why we title our book as "The Origin of Life in Matter." We do not talk simply "life" because...

Prabhupāda: Origin of everything.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The whole material world is polluted. Who will live here? A little, say, twenty years before, dying. After all, you have to die, twenty years after or twenty years before. So it is already polluted. That is humbugism. They will die at the end, but still they are trying to live. (kīrtana in background growing progressively louder as Prabhupāda approaches temple)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like they're creating their own...

Prabhupāda: This is the difference between man of knowledge and without knowledge. A man of knowledge will think, "After all, I have to die. So what is the difficulty, dying a few days more or before?" That is knowledge. And those who are not in knowledge, they are afraid of death. Best business is before the death comes let us finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly. That is wanted. Death will come. You cannot avoid it.

Rāmeṣvara: They say that this radioactive fallout will pollute the air so that no crops can be grown.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You shall die without food. Be(cause) after all, the death. In Bengal, it is called: more bhera ghalne (?): "The most misfortunate thing is death." That will come. Therefore the best intelligence is how to avoid death.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: He wants to know how to become a pure devotee.

Prabhupāda: You live with us and you will become pure devotee. They are pure devotees. You live with them and do whatever they are doing, their examples, and you will become pure devotee. Just like in a workshop, if you admit yourself without any knowledge, if you work with the workshop man, gradually you will learn how to work. It is not difficult. Formerly this was the custom in India, that when somebody sends his son to any workshop or any shopkeeper without any pay, so gradually he learns. And the master says, "Now I engage you with some pay." That is the way. Sataṁ prasaṅgāt. By living with devotees, you'll learn devotion. So if you are serious, you are welcome. You can live with us and behave according to the other devotees. Then he's a...

Indian boy: Is it possible that I live on my own and still be a devotee?

Prabhupāda: That will take long time. That, also, if you follow the regulative principles... It is difficult, little. But easier method is to live with the devotees because the situation and atmosphere in your home is different from devotion. So it is not very helpful. You have got other members in the family?

Indian boy: Yes, there is...

Prabhupāda: So if you want to do something, they may not like it. So that is impediment. But if you live with the devotees, then you learn quickly the art. You are Indian?

Indian boy: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There must be one. Then it will increase the value. That one, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, will make this material civilization hundred times important. And without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all zeros. (break) ...next life, supposing hypothetically I am going to be a dog, then what is this civilization? But that you cannot say, "No, I am not going to be dog," because you do not know. You are under the, completely under the grip of material nature. And there are cats and dogs. How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You will get another body. So how you can say that "No, I am not going to be a dog"? You cannot say; you are not independent. You cannot make your choice. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). By your work, it will be decided by higher authorities. Then how you can say, "No, no, I am not... There is no life, there is no..." It is all nonsense. Therefore without this knowledge, all this material opulence, it is all zero. It may be some fact for fifty or sixty years, but the world is not for fifty or sixty years, for millions and millions of years. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: They must be especially sinful. They get five thousand years as a tree.

Prabhupāda: No, they are most pious. Because you want to live more by science, so they are also living more years. What is the use of such living, like tree? Therefore Bhāgavata says taravo kiṁ na jīvanti. You are trying to live more years by scientific advancement, but do the trees not live for many, many years? What you will gain by that? Suppose you live for three thousand years, what you will gain if you remain ignorant? Better live for a few years and understand that this material world is worse, I have to go to the spiritual world and meet Kṛṣṇa. That knowledge will help you. You live for ten years, but get this knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfect life. And what is the use of living like this tree for many thousands of years without any knowledge? (break) ...cars, they have come to botanical garden? No.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Not faith. It is fact. He is seeing every day.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists will argue...

Prabhupāda: That is faith—means on knowledge. So faith with knowledge is very good. But beginning must be faith, with knowledge or without knowledge.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the scientists will argue that Kṛṣṇa consciousness won't be scientifically accepted if it's just based on...

Prabhupāda: The scientists, how they can argue like that? Therefore they are rascals. First of all they explain something theoretically: "Hydrogen, oxygen-mix together it becomes water." It is faith. Then it is practically shown in the laboratory. So faith is the beginning. Theoretical knowledge means faith. Then experiment.

Baradrāj: The Vedic knowledge is also that way, very scientific.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Baradrāj: So knowledge is not necessary for faith but faith is necessary for knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore devotee, without any knowledge he becomes devotee. That faith, only faith. The devotee advances. Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukī. Later on, they become automatically full of knowledge because they have strong faith. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ nāśayāmy: (BG 10.11) "Because he is faithful, therefore I help him how to get knowledge." Again you come to that. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Everything is there.

Jayādvaita: Your lecture yesterday was so nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda, everything, so many ideas from Bhagavad-gītā, all explained and put together so nicely.

Paramahaṁsa: Blind faith is the belief that little...

Prabhupāda: Blind faith, without... That I have already explained. Immediately, why do you forget? He shows me, "Prabhupāda, come this way." So I have no faith. Why shall I go? Then I have stop here, finished, movement finished. So you have to keep faith blindly. And if the man who is giving direction, he is perfect, then your faith will make you advanced. But if you go to a rascal cheater and if you have faith, blind faith, then you are lost.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is that panic?

Paramahaṁsa: A panic that everyone would be frightened with the fact that there is people from other planets.

Prabhupāda: And they are not frightened? Without this knowledge they are not frightened, as if they are safe. (laughter) Are they safe without that knowledge? They are frightened of your atomic bomb. Who is not frightened? Who is that rascal who is not frightened? Is there any person who is not frightened?

Paramahaṁsa: A fool.

Prabhupāda: Fool is also frightened when there is stick. Everyone is frightened. That is the one of the conditions of material life. As eating is one of the items, similarly frightening is also... And the more one is godless, he is more frightened.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: No, she is full of humility... (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Then not only the people of India will be benefited but also the whole world will be benefited. And you have got that sampatti, Bhagavad-gītā guidance. I will not manufacture anything. That is not my business, concoction thing, hodgepodge, without any knowledge, without any experience. We are not that type of... (Bengali)

Lalitā: We have to set everything. When I phone we should be ready.

Prabhupāda: You make a file. Whatever she says, make a file and keep that.

Lalitā: We have to, yes. (Bengali) ...government scheme. (Bengali) We have to note down what he is saying. That's why I told... That will be written in short letter, short, Guru Mahārāja to (indistinct) us. It is to be...

Prabhupāda: Anyone can? You can read Hindi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man (1): Dvabhyanaṁ pathanaṁ pathī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvabhyaṁ patanam. (Hindi) ...instruction... (Hindi) Either you speak in Bengali or in Sanskrit. (break) Then that is an asset. One day they will come to help us. It is called ajñāta-sukṛtī, devotional advancement without knowledge. Even... (break) ...have appreciated. In Hyderabad, these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs were challenged by the people, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has gone to foreign countries, and he established so many Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. What did you do? If you say that you disagree with Bhaktivedanta Swami—you worship demigods—so how many demigods' temple you have established?" They challenge like that. "If you say that you are worshiper of Lord Śiva, why don't you go and establish a Śiva temple? You are sitting idly here."

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Cyavana: This is the way to go up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this is a fact, that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yoga, and preach it. This is a fact. Except we, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody knows anything—all mūḍhas. Any association, any religion—all mūḍhas. But you must prove yourself. Otherwise it will be bigotry. If you simply say that "We are only first class" without any knowledge... You have to defend yourself. There will be so many opposing elements. Then you become first class. Your position is first class, but you have to maintain it. Otherwise, they will say "religious fanatics." Any opposition party, you have to meet. That is required.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit for some time here, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) (Devotees have been teasing Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa in background regarding his suggestion) He said, "Don't bring milk when water is required." I was just asking, you know.

Harikeśa: Don't bring milk when water is required. You have given the example.

Prabhupāda: Don't bring milk?

Devotees: When water is required.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully. They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Harikeśa: But it was by chance I infected.

Prabhupāda: No, not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say, "by chance." There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says. There is no chance.

Cyavana: If God's energy is so perfect, then how does this ignorance come upon the living entity?

Prabhupāda: That we have explained many times. You create your ignorance. Just like you cannot live without serving Kṛṣṇa, but you create: "Why not independently?" That is your ignorance. By law, by nature's law, you cannot live without being subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. But why you are thinking, "Why shall I be subordinate to Kṛṣṇa?" Kṛṣṇa is asking you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). Why you are not doing that? Why you are not doing that? Kṛṣṇa is personally asking, "You do this. I shall save you." Why you are not doing this? So you violate the laws of Kṛṣṇa. You suffer. That's all.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya means when you are not addicted to sinful life. That is vairāgya. People have got attachment for sinful activities. (break) ...deve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty aśu vairāgyam. That is the vairāgya way. You cannot practice vairāgya without Vasudeva's shelter.

Dr. Patel: Vairāgya generates by extreme bhakti or by extreme knowledge. Not otherwise. Knowledge is generated by bhakti, no doubt, but then you must have complete knowledge of what is this and what is that.

Prabhupāda: Without bhakti, knowledge is artificial, because knowledge means to accept the Supreme Lord as Supreme. That is knowledge.

Dr. Patel: That is knowledge. And then this is also... From that knowledge, when you know that this is all false, then it sort of, in a sense, generated within you, to be...

Prabhupāda: That knowledge is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. The so-called knowledge is useless. It has no value. māyāyapahṛta-jñāna. What is the test? Na māṁ prapadyante: "If he had knowledge, he would have surrendered to Me," but he does not do so.

Dr. Patel: Jñānavan māṁ prapadyante. That is knowledge. Jñāna means knowledge. That knowledge is the Supreme.

Prabhupāda: But that knowledge means actually jñānavān. Otherwise it is false knowledge. māyāyapahṛta-jñāna. If you do not know what is God, then what is the meaning of your knowledge?

Morning Walk -- November 10, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Abhimānam

Prabhupāda: Abhimānam. A person without knowledge, when he professes to be very learned and intelligent, he is more in darkness.

Dr. Patel: But really, sir, very learned people are very doubtful about their learning, to tell the truth. I had my professor who was a Nobel prize winner in London, and he used to be very doubtful, everything, what he said. "It may be or may not be. Who knows? God only knows," he used to say. So we cannot say that all are in darkness.

Prabhupāda: So if God knows, take the words of God.

Dr. Patel: That he must be taking I mean, in his own way.

Prabhupāda: In his own way he cannot take. (laughter) That is another di... That is another foolishness. You cannot take... No.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Haṁsadūta: Mineralogist.

Prabhupāda: He can say: "Here is gold. You dig here. Here is the gold mine." Then you get gold mine. And one who is not expert, simply he has understood that "In this area, there is gold mine," and they are simply fighting; everyone has come to take the gold. But without expert knowledge, they're simply fighting. They do not find gold. That is the position. So expert knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. He therefore begins: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body, the living force, that is the soul. Because that soul is there, it is changing body, different. Try to understand that active principle. And where is that understanding? They simply putting different theses. They do not, neither do they know antithesis or synthesis. So our.... We know the thesis, antithesis and synthesis, that this soul, living entity, is within this body. Now the body is important so long the soul is there. Otherwise, body is a lump of matter. So the soul is suffering. He's seeking after enjoyment, but he's suffering. So therefore.... The most prominent suffering is death. That he cannot avoid. Or he's not.... The so-called materialistic scientists, they have not been able, neither they do know, who is the sufferer or enjoyer. They take this body. The same fiber platform. So actually they are rascals. What is the value of the thesis, antithesis?

Harikeśa: So actually everything.... All the arguments they bring up is simply the material thesis. There is no antithesis 'cause.... Just like hot and cold. Hot is...

Prabhupāda: No. They're seeking—the same example—the enjoyable thing, on the platform of shell of the coconut, fibers of the coconut. They do not know that within the shell, within the fiber, there is coconut. That they do not know. You said two sides. But they do not know the other side. They only know the one side, the body. There will be synthesis when there are two. But they have no two. They simply one subject matter, the body, and that is useless struggle. It is just like Māyāvādīs. Neti neti: "Not this, not this. Not this, not this." Therefore they advocate revolution, that something is going on for some days; again revolution. That means "Not this." Neti neti. The experiment says.... Experiment. Everyone is doing that. They are trying to derive happiness through some system or idea of adjustment, but it becomes spoiled and useless after some time. Therefore they say another revolution required.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, there must be father. This is conclusion. So who is sanctioning about the father? The answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā: ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am father." You cannot denying father; that is not possible. If there is mother, if there is child, there must be father. This is human sense. And animal sense is: "I don't care for father. There may be father, may not be..." That is animal sense. So do you want to keep the human society in such ignorance just like cats and dogs? The dogs do not care who is father. This movement wants to give education to the human society: "Yes, there is father." And that is actual fact. Without father how there is child? Is it possible? Then? For at the present moment, the human society is child playing on the lap of mother, that's all. In big, big motorcars, that's all. Without any knowledge of father. But will the human being remain simply satisfied with toys on the lap of mother, or you'll try to understand who is father? So we are satisfied with the toys, and playing on the lap of the mother. The motorcar is running very swiftly, head-break or neck-break speed, and they are thinking they are civilized, advanced. What is.... "Who is your father?" "Don't know."

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That you might have forgotten. Because your nature is to forget, you cannot immediately remember what you are doing exactly this time yesterday. That is your... You have forgotten, but suppose you, without any knowledge, you do something criminal. So you must be punished. You may not know. You cannot say in the court that "I did not know by committing this act I'll be punished." So you know or not know. You have done it; you must be punished. You may not know what you have done, but that does not mean you can avoid punishment.

Arnold Weiss: I understand that. It sounds reasonable to me. When we do this act for which we are punished, is it done in this life or done in some prior life?

Prabhupāda: This life or prior life, because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are eternal.

Arnold Weiss: Would the prior life have to be an animal life?

Prabhupāda: Yes, might be.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda often says that no one can be happy without knowledge. It's not possible to be fully happy without knowledge. People suffer due to lack of knowledge. So if this knowledge about this living force is not taught to the people, then they'll continue to suffer and be in anxiety, suffer diseases, fight among themselves, quarrel. There'll always be some misery as long as there is this general lack of knowledge about the spiritual element, or the living force. So in that sense we feel a great compassion and a great, great responsibility to educate as many people as possible about the spiritual science of the soul and about Kṛṣṇa, or God. That's the purpose of our mission, to relieve people from their miseries and make them truly happy.

Interviewer: If they're interested.

Prabhupāda: Interested or not interested. Child is not interested for education. But it is the duty of the father to make him educated, sometimes punish him. So a child may be foolish, but how the parents can be foolish? It is not that because the human society is not interested, this should be stopped. No.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: "The sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra, whom if we killed we should not care to live, are now standing before us on this battlefield." Arjuna did not know whether he should fight and risk unnecessary violence, although fighting is the duty of the kṣatriyas, or whether he should refrain and live by begging. If he did not conquer the enemy, begging would be his only means of subsistence. Nor was there certainty of victory, because either side might emerge victorious. Even if victory awaited them (and their cause was justified), still, if the sons of Dhṛtarāṣṭra died in battle, it would be very difficult to live in their absence. Under the circumstances, that would be another kind of defeat for them. All these considerations by Arjuna definitely prove that he was not only a great devotee of the Lord but that he was also highly enlightened and had complete control over his mind and senses. His desire to live by begging, although he was born in the royal household, is another sign of detachment. He was truly virtuous, as these qualities, combined with his faith in the words of instruction of Śrī Kṛṣṇa (his spiritual master), indicate. It is concluded that Arjuna was quite fit for liberation. Unless the senses are controlled, there is no chance of elevation to the platform of knowledge, and without knowledge and devotion there is no chance of liberation. Arjuna was competent in all these attributes, over and above his enormous attributes in his material relationships.

Translation: Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me. Now I am Your disciple, and a soul surrendered unto You. Please instruct me.

"By nature's own way the complete system of material activities is a source of perplexity for everyone. In every step there is perplexity, and therefore it behooves one to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life, which happen without our desire."

Prabhupāda: Now you can discuss among yourselves whether you have approached such spiritual master. What is that? This purport?

Jayādvaita: Read again. "Therefore it behooves one to approach a bona fide spiritual master who can give one proper guidance for executing the purpose of life. All Vedic literatures advise us to approach a bona fide spiritual master to get free from the perplexities of life, which happen without our desire."

Prabhupāda: So, whether you have approached such spiritual master, that you can discuss. This is the necessity of approaching a spiritual master.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: I was talking of these cars. The dog is running on legs, and they are running on cars. So, (laughs) actually what is the difference? This is advancement of civilization, that the dog is running for nothing, here and there on legs, and human being is running on nice car. Does it mean there is advance in civilization? If we keep the human being like cats and dogs, without any advancement of knowledge, the cats and dogs, they cannot accept any advanced knowledge. That is not possible. Similarly, if human society is kept in darkness without any advanced knowledge, without any knowledge of the aim of life and without any knowledge what is the meaning of human life, they'll remain as cats and dogs. So as cats and dogs, if they are practiced to run here and there, either on legs or on cars, is that advancement of civilization?

Indian man: Swami, there was a news item in the paper last year, some research scholars at Jesuit University performed some experiments, and then they said that Kṛṣṇa consciousness people lose initiative for doing things. They don't fight the battle of life. It takes away the initiative from them. It was published in papers.

Prabhupāda: No, that's not the fact. It is misunderstanding. We are actually struggling for achievement of the highest goal of life. Otherwise, why we are writing so many books? It is for the human beings. And they are being accepted. It is not for the cats and dog.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Just see how forcefully they are being kept into ignorance, and we want to give knowledge, they don't, won't allow. This is government. So anyway, it is good news that our books are being read in that way. That means people are very eager, but they are being suppressed by the so-called government. What is the wrong there, that they cannot read these books publicly, because there is God? What is the wrong? When I was in Moscow airport, as soon as they found Bhagavad-gītā, they called police, the customs checking. The foolish man was kind enough, he said, "Not serious offense. Don't send him in the concentration camp." They can do. In Russia, even if you are foreigner, they can immediately send you to the concen..., without any knowledge, they don't care for your embassy or your... Such a rascal state, there is no civilized method. They send their own men, such an important man like that Kruschev. He was sent into oblivion; nobody knows where he is. Such a rascal government. Very difficult to live in. People are... Simply under terrorism the government is going on. In that sense your American government is so nice. Everyone has got the liberty. What is that nonsense government-terrorism.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, for example, if one is learning how to count or how to read...

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has to learn it from the teacher. Two plus two equal to four. One, two, three, four, like that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But actually one can understand the Absolute Truth without such knowledge.

Prabhupāda: There is no such man. It is a nonsense, another non...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Without being able to count?

Prabhupāda: Nobody can count unless he learns it from the teacher.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, but...

Prabhupāda: So therefore for knowledge, you have to go to a proficient man or person, that is knowledge. Why do you go to a school and college? Be in knowledge at home. If you want to steal even, you have to learn it from a professional thief, how to cheat, how to steal. That is also another kind of knowledge. You cannot steal unless you become expert by learning how to steal from an expert thief. So knowledge means you have to receive it from higher authority. That is knowledge.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Rakṣaṇa: Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna that that was to know that he was factually not his body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is advancement of knowledge. Otherwise, what is the difference between this bird and the human being? He's also dancing very jolly, but he has no knowledge that he's not this body. So if the human being also remains falsely jolly without any knowledge of his existence, then what is the difference between these birds, dogs and human beings? Why we say low grade, animals? He's living in his own way. He has got all the facilities of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Just you have all the same things. Where is the difference between you and him? Why you say advanced in knowledge?

Rakṣaṇa: Nowadays they say that they're advanced in knowledge even without any sophistication at all, while Arjuna, when he was giving his arguments to Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, don't bring Arjuna now. Just speak on commonsense platform. As soon as we bring Arjuna, they think it is sectarian. We are talking on human common sense. What is advancement of knowledge?

Devotee: They say if it's advancement of knowledge, if they are advanced, why do they have to die? The animals are dying, and they're accepting that, and the human beings also die. But why does he have to die if he's advanced in knowledge?

Rakṣaṇa: Even if you are advanced in knowledge, you still have to die.

Kīrtanānanda: Advancement of knowledge is to distinguish between what is temporary and what is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Discuss on further.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma

(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

Kṛṣṇa is not for India. He is for everyone because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, and the animals, all living entities. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Everything is there, but this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or Bhagavad-gītā as it is, was not preached properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role. Nobody tried for it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was unknown, but we are trying for this for the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision. He says especially to Indian people,

bhārata bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

Indians are meant to do this business for para-upakāra because all over the world they are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who is actually Indian, he should attempt to broadcast the message of Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. That is order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

bhārata bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

This is paropakāra. They are suffering without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Give them this knowledge. That is para-upakāra, doing welfare activities to others. So that attempt is now being made, and people actually accepting. So it not a new role. The role is already there. Caitanya Mahāprabhu five hundred years told, years before He told it. But the so many swamis and yogis, they came here, they never introduced Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now it is being done and people are accepting, naturally. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So if everyone joins, either Indian, non-Indian, in this movement there will be one religion and there will be peace. Peace will prevail. This is the only way.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā

varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ

svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya

saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam

(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection. Where are others? They are not present here?

Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Prabhupāda: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān

pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ

bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā

yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām

(BG 9.25)

If you want to transfer yourself to other planetary system, you can go. You can go to the higher planetary system, which is resided by the demigods, devas, yānti deva-vratā devān; and you can go to other planets, Pitṛloka; or you can remain here as you like; and you can go to the planet where God is there. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So this human life, you can make your selection. After all, you have to change your body, that is compulsory. Nobody can remain here with this body, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And we have to change our body. So we can make our selection, where we shall go next, either in the higher planetary system or the Pitṛloka or we shall remain here or we can go even back to home, back to Godhead. So we must prepare ourselves for that purpose. Then next life we can go wherever we like. But anywhere within this material world, there are four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. There is birth, there is death, there is old age and disease. But if you go to the spiritual kingdom, there is no more such things, no birth, no death, no disease, no old age. Now we can make our selection. And if we do not make our selection, if we live like cats and dogs, without any responsibility, then again we become in the category of cats and dogs. Mūḍha, janmani janmani (BG 16.20), life after life, they remain like animals, without any knowledge.

Arrival Comments in Car to Temple -- July 9, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They think that we unnecessarily criticize. But we require everything. But just like a man. When he's alive his decoration, his nice dress, everything is very good. But if he's dead, then it is useless. Similarly, without spiritual consciousness we are dead. Because the body is dead. Because the spirit soul is there, therefore it is moving. The important point is the spirit soul. So if you are simply taking care of the body very nicely, that means you are decorating the dead body. What is the value of it? It is clear? The body is important because the soul is there. So long the life is there, if you decorate the body everyone will appreciate. But if you decorate the dead body, people will say "What a fool he is!" Aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. That is simply a popular applause, "Ah, the dead body is decorated," but what is the value of it? Similarly, without spiritual knowledge, this dead civilization simply on the bodily concept of life, it is ludicrous. That we have to condemn. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then everything is... Just like one, if there is zero, then it is ten. Another zero, hundred. But without one, simply zero; it is only useless.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, some might say...

Prabhupāda: Just like a... Without any knowledge if we infect some disease, it will manifest in due course of time, and you have to suffer. Similarly without any knowledge we are infecting the modes of material nature and according to that modes of material nature, you have to accept a type of body which may not be very comfortable. Of course there is no comfort when there is death. We don't want death, but there is compulsory death. There is no comfort at all. But still the short duration of life, if we have little comfort... But again if we have this comfortable life, then what is the benefit of this comfort? That material laws of nature, we do not know, neither any education about (this). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that education. Therefore it is not a sentimental so-called religious movement, it is a scientific movement of real education. To solve the problems of life.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is happiness. Bhagavad-gītā points out what is your distress. Can anyone say what is the actual distress? They do not know it. Distress they are taking as usual part of life. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is philosophy, to find out what is distress. This is directly said by Kṛṣṇa, that these are distresses, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, to become old and to become diseased. But they do not know it. Not only they, everyone, all over the world, they take it as part of life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. When a man becomes diseased, when a man becomes old, or when a man dies, they take it it is usual. They have been accustomed to these distresses so much that they do not take it as distress. So this is their ignorance. This is their ignorance. They do not know what is distress and they are struggling for moving the distress. Just like this independence. They do not know what is meaning of independence. Real independence is when you are free from these four kinds of distress. Does it mean that observing this kind of independence is real independence? It is simply fictitious. If you are not free from the laws of nature, nature will enforce you to die. Then where is your independence? Nobody wants to die, so why he's enforced to die? Nobody wants to become old man. Why he's enforced to become old man? But they have no brain to understand what is independence, what is happiness. They have taken distress as happiness. So that is due to lack of knowledge. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to elevate a person to the real standard of knowledge. Without knowledge a madman can say anything. A child can speak all nonsense. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside. The problem that "I do not want to die, but I'll be enforced to die," so what is the advancement in this connection? They might have, so big, big scientists, they have discovered many, many things, but where is that thing that "Take a pill and you'll never die. Take a pill, you'll never become diseased"? They can offer me... I had some abdominal pain, so they have given me dozens of medicine. But still they are not sure whether the pain will be cured. This is their science. So in this way things are going on, in ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Organize it and keep hundreds of books. They will live peacefully. But don't entangle in sinful activities. Then it will be all right. Such a nice place. The city residents cannot imagine. What a nonsense life—clubs, slaughterhouse, gambling places, drinking house. This is like hell. Try to save people from this hellish condition of life, without any knowledge, like animals. And nature therefore creates a wholesale slaughterhouse in war, to cut throat all—finished. Many millions and millions are finished. From 1914 to 1950, how many years?

Harikeśa: Thirty-six.

Prabhupāda: Within thirty-six years there were two big wars, slaughter. Especially Europe. Nature will create. Pestilence. Somewhere there is pestilence, somewhere there is war, somewhere there is scarcity of food. But you cannot indulge in sinful activities. Then you'll be killed. Then nature's law will act. You may defy, that's your business, but nature will act in her own way. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass. That is not possible. But they are foolish, they are trying to conquer over nature by their so-called scientific knowledge. They are such a rascal. You change the color of this fruit and flower, conquer over nature. So rascal, they talk rascal, "It will take millions of years." We have to wait million. "Yes, from chemical we shall bring life. Wait million of years." This is going on. And for such thing, big building, laboratory, research, scientific research. Big, big signboard. And the students out of disappointment, going to the roof and falling down, committing suicide.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He doesn't think he'll be able to follow the life of the Vaiṣṇavas, because our life is too difficult.

Prabhupāda: That attitude will help him. That humbleness, that "I cannot follow," that will help.

Bhūgarbha: He says he has a tendency more of a jñānī, and his training has been according to Śaṅkarite and also Buddhist lines. But still he appreciates very much bhakti, and he is very happy to meet the devotees, and at the same time he's very depressed to meet all these intellectuals who know so many things but cannot understand anything.

Prabhupāda: Without becoming jñānī, nobody can become bhakta. Without knowledge, if one has become bhakta, he's sentimentalist. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, find out this verse. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54).

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: But unless one is getting Kṛṣṇa's instruction, he is forced to go on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, māyā is there. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). You cannot do anything without knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is there, māyā is there. They'll take care. Kṛṣṇa's agent māyā will take care of you. You have to be taken care, either by māyā or by Kṛṣṇa. If you agree to be taken care by Kṛṣṇa, then you are happy. And if you don't agree, you will be taken care by māyā. You go on suffering. In either case you are not independent. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). That verse is very important-yathecchasi tathā kuru. Find out that verse. It is the last part. Yesterday you found.

Hari-śauri: Oh, I know which one it is. The one about "Now do as you wish."

Prabhupāda: That liberty is always there.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti, or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually, the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually, according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

(Brs. 1.2.101)

'Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Nārada Pañcarātra, etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.' It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramātmā realized yogi to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of Mother Yaśodā or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Kṛṣṇa: muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ, māṁ tu veda na kaścana. 'No one knows Me as I am,' the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, 'Such a great soul is very rare.' Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Kṛṣṇa as He is (tattvataḥ), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is. Therefore it is said:

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi

na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau

svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ

(Brs. 1.2.234)

'No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him.' (Padma Purāṇa)"

Prabhupāda: (loud chanting from mosques and singing in background) These words, aja, what is the meaning of this?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Allah, "God is great, God is great, God is great." "God is greater than can be ever described. I accept and witness that God is one and there is no other partner, or any..."

Prabhupāda: Competitor.

Room Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But not that willfully do something wrong. There is punishment. If one unconsciously, without any knowledge, does something wrong, that is excused. But they do willfully. They know it is wrong, still they do it. That is punished. Knowingly. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally said, asat eka strī-saṅgī. Those who are habituated to illicit sex are punishable. Asat. It is very, very bad. And still if somebody does like that, he is punished. This is going on. "All right." Here illicit sex... The bābājīs, I heard, they say, "What is the wrong there? It is love." They say like that. They take it as love. "Gopī's love," they say. "Gopī's used to do that, used to have illicit mixing, intermingling with Kṛṣṇa. What is wrong?" They'll say. They get support from Kṛṣṇa līlā. Such rogues they are. Sahajiyās. There are many so-called gentlemen, they write books on Kṛṣṇa līlā, paint picture." This is very nice. Kṛṣṇa is advocating illicit intermingling." They take it as support of their sinful activities. I have seen personally. Anyone who is a woman-hunter, he's being addressed by his friend, "Oh, you are like Kṛṣṇa." They take Kṛṣṇa as a man. How they will take instruction of Kṛṣṇa? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. We are teaching people to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to become servant of Kṛṣṇa, and the so-called gentlemen, enlightened gentlemen, take Kṛṣṇa as a debauch. Black debauch. (break) ...Vaiṣṇava religion is sex. (break) There are aborigines in India. Santal, (?) they are called santal. Black men, live in the forest like the African aborigines. So I asked him that "You, jungle, do you meet the tigers?" "Oh, yes, yes. Why not?" "So how do you save yourself?" So he had a small axe in his hand. So he showed me that "So long I have got this axe, even the tiger will not dare to attack me." (Bengali or Hindi) After all, tiger is afraid of the axe. They are afraid of even stick. That immediately they understand, "He's superior." Actually man is superior with some weapon. I have got personal experience. He said, "He's a big tiger. But we treat them like dogs." One axe. They keep always. Just like we keep a stick, they keep one axe.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, hm. (break) ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanāgarī there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said that "By My order you become a guru." Indians especially are advised to become guru because Indians, however fallen they may be, they still have respect for Kṛṣṇa. Every home, they perform Kṛṣṇa's Janmāṣṭamī. So therefore Indians are fortunate. They recognize Kṛṣṇa. Now, to become little more advanced, let them act as Kṛṣṇa's servant. Kṛṣṇa came to speak this truth, that "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). He appeared to speak this philosophy. And if you do the same work, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," then you are serving the mission of Kṛṣṇa, great service to Kṛṣṇa. The words for which He appeared on this earth, if you simply carry these words door to door, village to village, man to man, then you become a guru, a real guru. Not to pose yourself a guru without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. That is cheating. And to accept and understand Kṛṣṇa the Supreme thoroughly and preach these words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," is the supreme success of life. What is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? I have to bring all these young men from Europe and America to speak to you this truth. Why our young men is not coming to speak this truth? Hm? What is the difficulty? That means willfully they are denying the success of life. Willfully. Then what can be done? If somebody willfully commits suicide, who can save him? This is our position at the present moment. The Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu: "I have drunk poison knowingly." So if somebody knowingly drinks poison, then who can save him? So we are doing that. Without preaching the gospel of Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are drinking poison willfully. This is our position.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1977, Mayapura:

Girirāja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit in that. It just makes people more unhappy.

Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?

Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?

Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?

Girirāja: Um... Well, nobody is immediately planning to vacate, and the hopes of the cases is always delayed. Actually the lawyer says that the court is dealing with cases before 1973. Actually the judicial system is very bad.

Prabhupāda: Very bad.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Among animals that evolved on this planet, man is the only animal that has progressed in all his activities. This he achieved through his knowledge in science. While all organisms continue to live even today as their forebears did millions of years ago, man alone has progressed..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are uncivilized men. Without any knowledge they can produce children. Do they have any scientific knowledge? How they are producing children? The same man, the same woman, the same child. What is the difference?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Man alone has progressed from the caveman state to the present spaceman state."

Prabhupāda: Progressing means eating, sleeping, nothing more progress. He eats by killing an animal in the jungle, and you are eating, killing an animal in the organized slaughterhouse. That's all. So what is the difference between you and him? You are committing sinful activities by hammering, the killing, but he does not do so. He's not so sinful.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now who is...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Trivedi. He is very bad also.

Devotee: He's worse than Gupta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's worse. I mean the whole group of them is worse. There's a whole clique of them. The real thing that was happening is that without the knowledge of the head office they were doing so many things here locally. When it became known to the head office, then the head office became very angry. I can now understand that they had a whole plan in mind. They had it very planned, what they were doing. The plan in my opinion was that they felt here is a sannyāsī, old sādhu, and he has many foreign disciples...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were planning, in my... I talked with Girirāja about this. They were thinking "Here is an old sannyāsī, Prabhupāda. He has many foreign disciples, he has money. Let us get the money in fixed deposit. Then if he should pass away, then somehow by trick the money will be kept here and we'll never let them take it out." That was their plan. Therefore whenever Prabhupāda suggested that Gurukṛpā would sign, co-sign, "No, no," they would never allow. Their plan is that Prabhupāda would pass away, and all the foreigners would be there, and they'd never let them take it. When I showed them this power of attorney, they had a great shock. They were shocked how this had happened to them. I think this was their plan. Very deceiving type of people. Because they are here in Vṛndāvana. All their money is from fixed deposits from āśramas. So they know how to do this business of keeping the money. Now everything is clear. The money is there in Delhi. The Delhi office is not like that. They're businesslike. And we can keep dealing them, but on regular accounts. None of these fixed deposits. Not now. They "Now you must gain their confidence again." We told them, "We have nothing against you. But you deal properly, then again we'll deposit. But deal properly in a businesslike way." We have nothing against them. Punjab Bank is a good bank. Anyway, it's settled now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's finished. I wanted you to know that it's been successfully completed due to Girirāja's good efforts. Girirāja went to Bombay. His parents went with him.

Prabhupāda: You said this Trivedi is worse than him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Page Title:	Without knowledge (Conversations)
Compiler:	Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:	16 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:	BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=70, Let=0
No. of Quotes:	70