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Wine (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You have failed to give them satisfaction. Your this materialistic way of life will no more satisfy them. There is a stage, in the beginning, when one is poverty-stricken, he may think that "Money and woman and good apartment, good car, can give me satisfaction." They are after this. But after enjoyment, they see "Oh, there is no satisfaction." Because matter cannot satisfy you. So your stage is, in America especially, you have got enough for enjoyment. You have got enough food, you have got enough woman, you have got enough wine, you have got enough house—everything enough. This shows that material advancement cannot give one satisfaction. The confusion and dissatisfaction is more in your country than in India which is said to be poverty-stricken. You see? But you'll find in India still, although they are poverty-stricken, because they are continuing that old culture, they are not disturbed. Yes. They are dying inch by inch, but still they are satisfied.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?"

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So there was no money with me and in an awkward position... My philosophy is completely different. I was to ask them to cease from four kinds of sinful activities, and they are habituated to these things. Illicit sex, and drinking, wine and intoxication and gambling—these are their daily affairs. So I was thinking, "I have to stop this. Who will hear me?" But Kṛṣṇa... Everything became...

Guest (1): May I ask one thing. How you chose this America to be your first...?

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point. Vivekananda has no distinction of eating. "Eat any... All Brahman, all Nārāyaṇa. You are Nārāyaṇa. Goat is Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is going in the belly of Nārāyaṇa. What is the wrong? One Nārāyaṇa is going, being absorbed by another Nārāyaṇa." But he is not agreeable to be eaten by a tiger, another tiger Nārāyaṇa.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India... If you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do. Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things. I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing(?) or illicit sex life, because we are trained in that way.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Just see. If you say that they are animal civilization, that is a great credit for them. It is less than animal civilization. Write all this in papers and everything, all openly. Challenge strongly. First of all, realize, then challenge. (break) Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. That is the special distinction, that their life, human life must be based on dharma, religion. They have rejected dharma. That is another type of frustration because the so-called leaders of religion, they could not give anything. They also exploited people under religious sentiment. Actually they could not make people religious. They did not know what is religion. And therefore people become, revolted: "What is this nonsense? They are living at our expenditure." We are real religious people. We are enlightening people about religion, life, about God. And these people they simply take money and live peacefully. And drink also. Here they drink wine. In India they drink gāñjā. You have been Rādhā-Dāmodara temple? You have seen that Gosāi?

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Mensa Member: Knowledge of the process is comparatively important. If you want to enjoy it more you don't have to know about enzymes and proteins, you have to know about the right sort of wine so that...

Śyāmasundara: Enjoyment is the standard.

Dr. Weir: And there, what worries me, I was going a stage further, you do tend to find the people who want to understand about digestion are those whose stomachs are not very good.

Prabhupāda: Another thing is. Just like grass, straw. The cows are eating straw and giving the most vitaminous food, milk, full of vitamins A and D. But if you scientifically say that there is, I mean to say, vitamins in the grass and straw, then you eat straw. Vitamins is there. Why it is (indistinct). Your analysis of enzyme and vitamin. How you can say milk does not... (break) ...then you'll die. Why this law is there? The cow is producing most vitaminous food, milk, by simply eating dry grass and straw.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like śūdra. In the Western countries, they are all śūdras. They are getting money and misusing on wine and women. They cannot use money (indistinct), simply for sense gratification. That is the śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, especially kṣatriya, as soon as they get money, they would make a big sacrifice to satisfy viṣṇu-yajña.

Dr. Singh: Aśvamedhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in the instruction of Viśvadeva(?), the śūdras should be given money so they can live very comfortably, not more. Then they will be spoiled. And that is being done. Śūdras get money, they do not know how to use it. Just like a child, you give hundred rupees, he will spoil it. He does know. (Bengali) The monkey is decorated with pearl necklace. Even Hanumān.

Dr. Singh: (laughs) He did it.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) "Oh, you are so nice. Come on, take it." And there is another proverb in Bengal, (Bengali). (Bengali), the cultivator, what does he know about the taste of liquor? These are very instructive(?).

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is also goodness.

Bob: To a beggar who has nothing you give alms.

Prabhupāda: Um hmm. So that is goodness. But still... Just like in your Bowery Street, they give some charity, and immediately he purchases one bottle of wine and drinks and lie down flat. (laughter) So that is charity... That is not goodness, that is ignorance.

Bob: That charity is ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are three kinds of charities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. Goodness means charity where charity must be given. Just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So if anyone gives charity to this movement, that is goodness. Because it is spreading God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is goodness. And if one gives charity for some return, that is passion. And if somebody gives in charity, he does not know what he's going to do, just like the Bowery man, that is ignorance. So our Vedic principle is, Kṛṣṇa says, that yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi dadāsi yat kuruṣva mad-arpaṇam. That "Give Me." There is no question of knowing what is going to happen. If Kṛṣṇa takes, that is the perfection of charity. Or anyone who is representative of Kṛṣṇa, he takes, that is perfection.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is also another suicide.

Jayatīrtha: When I was in Chicago, the one section where the temple is close by, more than sixty percent of the people were heroin addicts in this one section. They were so much degraded. (indistinct conversation) I was reading in the newspaper that the astronauts that are going to the moon, they wanted to take wine with them, so that when they got to the moon they could celebrate their victory.

Prabhupāda: There is a story, (Sanskrit). One man said to his friend, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is also drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother is drinking." "Oh, she will also go to hell." "My brother is drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." In this way, the last fellow was, "Oh, everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. Why do you say hell? We shall live together and drink. Why do you call hell? This is heaven." (laughter)

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So ignorance... It is folly to be wise, so ignorance is bliss. So drinking is heaven. Even they go to moon planet, there must be wine. Otherwise, how it is heaven? That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. If your wine is heaven, then why do you take so much trouble? Why don't you drink here? Such rascals they are. Why you spend so much money? No, the heaven will be taken in bottle.

Jayatīrtha: If they were actually going to the moon planet then they could enjoy the soma juice there (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: These rascals are... I'm doubtful whether they are going to moon planet or some hell planet. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). Our only formula is anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good qualities—we reject him, whatever he may be. He is rejected from the list of good men, immediately. He may be president or he may be this or that, it doesn't matter. Because he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a third-class man, that's all. This is our certification. (break) These skyscraper buildings are no better than caves. They live here, and here is bathroom, here is kitchen, here is (indistinct) room, three inches. (laughter) Is that advanced civilization? Advanced civilization means every man must have sufficient space to live.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise Bon Mahārāja was deputed, but he wanted to cheat. He thought that "I shall go to England and become. When I come back, I shall advertise myself, 'I have preached in this way and that way and that way' and exploit." Just like Vivekananda. They are all cheaters. Vivekananda had no knowledge even to..., knowledge to give. He was such a rascal. And he went to America and he picked up three women, that's all. That is his achievement. One Sister Nigrita(?), his private secretary, that's all. This is all cheating. If you do not know... They go for wine and women, that's all. All these swamis they are going now these days. Saccidananda, that long-haired man, he is also being sued for something. Who was telling me?

Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill."

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also ingredient of pāna. Pāna, it is called pāna.

Guest (2): I offered Vaikuṇṭhajī supāri. You see he won't accept it. So I thought, well, it only helps digestion because it only brings the saliva in the mouth.

Prabhupāda: Well, wine is also very digestive. (laughter) An appetizer also. All Europeans, they take first of all wine to eat voraciously. I see in the airplane. And after taking wine, they eat so much.

Guest (8): And then they go for dancing to digest it.

Prabhupāda: Simple life, simple life, innocent life... Because after all, we have to give up this material world. If we become attached, then we'll have to take birth again. Nivṛtta-tarṣair... There is another verse quoted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is very difficult, but there is possibility. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana, those who are eager to go back to home, back to Godhead... Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. On the other side of this material world. For him... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca, hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). For such person to be attracted by these material things is not good. It is suicidal. So material things, viṣaya, simply increasing the method of eating, sleeping, sex life and defense.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: Yeah, why not? That's pretty clear, actually. "Well, we love God. Yes, we love God." A steak and a glass of wine and God.

Śrutakīrti: I think a storm is coming.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Śrutakīrti: A rainstorm is...

Prabhupāda: Rainstorm? No.

Revatīnandana: Little, little... It might rain. It's not for a while. But when it gets misty, it sometimes rains.

Prabhupāda: You can understand from the cloud. When it's blackish, then there is rain. (Break) (end)

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What the Ramakrishna mission has done?

Professor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna mission has done this, that they have learned to drink wine and eat meat, that's all, from the Western countries. That's all.

Professor: Yes. This is so.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their contribution. And they have spoiled the Hindu culture.

Professor: Oh. Yes?

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. But there is facility. Because people are harassed for getting food and shelter. Everyone is working so hard where to get nice food, where to get nice shelter. Rich man means he has already got. So if he's sane, if he's good, has got good association, direction, then he can think, that "I have no anxiety for my food, shelter and other necessities of life. So how I shall utilize my time?" And if he gets good guru, then he can utilize very nicely, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a chance. He hasn't got to work. Because people are very much perplexed how to get shelter, how to get food. But he has got the chance. He hasn't got to endeavor for food and shelter and other necessities of the body. Ample he has got. He can save time for spiritual advancement. That is an advantage. It is not necessary. It is almost disadvantage. But actually it is advantage. Unfortunately, those who are born in rich family, they take advantage of it that "I have got so much money, let me enjoy sense gratification." Māyā dictates, "Oh, you have got so much money. Utilize for wine-woman." That's all.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). During Mahārāja Parīkṣit's time, one black man was attempting to kill a cow. Immediately the king wanted to kill him, immediately: "Oh, who are you?" It is the duty of the vaiśyas. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma-svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). It is the duty of the vaiśyas to protect the cows, to increase agricultural activities and trade. But they are now interested in producing electronic parts. No go-rakṣya, no vāṇijyam, no food production. Cheap profit, and for eating, let there be slaughterhouse and eat meat. And to digest meat, you drink wine. This is being taught. So you create the situation and when you suffer, then why should we lament? We have created this situation, godless civilization, do not follow the direction of the śāstras. When we follow, what is that kāmam?

Room Conversation -- November 1, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The same thing here. Just like prostitute, they are going to the club. The father is going also; the son is going. And the prostitute is the same. Everywhere, this material happiness, wine, women...

Brahmānanda: I think there... That boy, Ranchor, his father said, "You leave Kṛṣṇa consciousness and I will give you a car and women."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your father also said like that. (laughter) Here father will feel shame to advise the son, or the son will feel shame to talk about sex with father or mother.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: About sex one can talk with friends, not with father and mother.

Brahmānanda: Not with...

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: If they just get a bottle of wine they are satisfied even though they are freezing and starving and have no place to stay.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are satisfied. Real satisfaction will prevail when one knows God. That is real satisfaction. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). A devotee will see how by God's design the sea is working, how the sky is staying, how the sun is rising. He is satisfied, "Oh, how my Lord is great, how He has arranged." That is satisfaction

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But Śrīla Prabhupāda, the living entities, the jīvātmā within the..., and the Paramātmā within, why the living entities suffering even the Paramātmā is directing the living entity within?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is done by the pigs. Whole day, finding out "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he eats some stool, gets some fat, "Where is sex? Never mind, mother, sister, or daughter. Come on, sex." This is pig life, pig civilization. It is not human civilization. This kind of behavior is found amongst the pigs, amongst the dogs. Do you think we have to create a human society like the pigs' society? At the present moment, they're eating anything and everything like pigs, and they're having sex with anyone, never mind. So it is a pig society. There is no discrimination. (break) ...the most popular thing is this drinking, eating meat and drinking wine. Is that to be accepted because it is very popular?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they use transcendental meditation...

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the drunkards say also like that. They get inspiration by drinking.

Karandhara: There is one very famous philosopher named Dubrown(?). He said that he had a saying that "Some men say that you become intoxicated by wine, but I become sobered by wine."

Prabhupāda: That can be accepted. "One man's food, another man's poison." That is going on everywhere. But for that reason one cannot accept poison as food. Is it not? Just like stool is food for the pigs. But that does not mean stool is food. It may be food for a certain class of animals. (break) No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't think so.

Prajāpati: Food for somebody.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The sinful activities have increased because the world has produced too much wealth. Because they can purchase sinful activities. And that is being increased by inflation. False money I have got, and with that false money I can purchase all this illicit sex, wine, intoxication, and... It is just like nowadays, bank is giving you a card, "Americard..." What is that?

Karandhara: Charge card. Bank Americard.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you simply show the card, you get the goods. So to exchange, it has become very cheap. So cheaply you can purchase. Therefore cheaply you can purchase sinful things also. The people are becoming sinful. The modern economy is, "Engage people in hard working to produce, and by artificial cheating, secure the goods, commodities." This is modern economy. So a worker is getting three thousand dollar per month, but he is getting paper. But he is thinking that "I am getting money." He is giving his labor, and things are being produced. This is the policy. "Cheat him. Without giving money, give him paper, and get his labor, and produce goods." This is modern economy. Is it not? A laborer, a worker, is given high salary, high wages. So what he is getting? It is paper. And he is very enthusiastic to give his labor. So production is more. And when you go to purchase the products, then you have to pay again.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Home Minister, Havas(?), in Delhi.

Dr. Patel: Oh, Delhi.

Prabhupāda: The government is against our movement. Because they are teaching: "Drink wine, eat meat," and we are teaching no meat-eating. How they will approve of our movement?

Dr. Patel: Not only that. We have just now talked about teaching meat. This government of Maharashtra has created an institution, government institution, which are feeding pigs for selling, meat, and poultry. It could have been done by any private institution outside. Why, eh?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And after eating meat, then seven hundred years old loaf. Cut it and add with little butter. That's all. And then take wine. Bās. Kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare. Now they're eating rasagullā. Am I right or wrong?

Devotees: Right.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: I didn't hear what you said. Now they're eating...

Prabhupāda: Explain.

Jayapatākā: Previously they were only eating meat. Now they're taking rasagullā.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Oh yes.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they require. They require. The cow is being killed, and that's all. That is sufficient food for them." And let the farmers work for me, for bolts and nuts and motor tire. We make huge profit." You see. You are making profit, but other...

Devotee: What is the use of that profit, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, when don't get even for eating, no clothing, no eating? Only profit... What profit will be beneficial?

Prabhupāda: No, but they don't care for others. But they're having wine and women with their black market money. That's all. They're satisfied. They do not know... (end)

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is philosophy. Darśana. Darśana means search out what is the ultimate. Jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16). Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto 'rthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha, arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur jñānī ca bharatarṣabha. These are philosophers. Even the ārtaḥ, even a distressed person, he is praying to the Supreme Authority, "My God, I am very much hungry. Kindly give me my daily bread." He's also philosopher, because he's searching out the Absolute Truth. He's philosopher. Not this Freud rascal, elaborating how to have sex life. So this kind of philosopher, they... What is called? In Bengali: vane haye śṛgāla rājā.(?) "In the jungle a jackal becomes a king." So because western people, they have no... They're all less than śūdras. So a Freud has become a philosopher. Vane haye śṛgāla rājā. "In the jungle, the jackal has become a king." That's all. What is knowledge there? It is that... The whole western world is going on for industry, for making money, eat, drink, be merry, wine and women. That's... They're all less than śūdras and caṇḍālas. This is the first time attempt is being made to make them human beings. Don't mind. I am using very strong words. That is the fact.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. Cow... The śūdras, they can take a goat and sacrifice before the deity, goddess Kālī, and then eat. Nobody should be given unrestricted freedom to eat meat. Or wine. If one is adamant to drink wine, then there is Caṇḍī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā. That means restriction. That means restriction. Under certain condition. Similarly, sex life—marriage. That is also sex life, but under condition.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is this school for women also, or just for men?

Prabhupāda: For men. Women should automatically learn how to cook, how to cleanse home.

Satsvarūpa: So they don't attend varṇāśrama college.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like we do not want money. But they are having money by so many ways. So we take their money and construct a temple. We can sit down here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't require that temple. But these rascals are accumulating money for wine and women. Take their money, some way or other, and builds a temple. And invite them, "Come and see." Give them prasādam. This is our policy. We are not constructing big, big buildings and temples for our convenience. For their convenience. This is sannyāsī.

Viṣṇujana: So there should always be programs in the temples for their welfare, not...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viṣṇujana: ...that we live there and...

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Machine. And he's very expert. He'll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: "Advancement of civilization." Advancement of civilization means "Exploit others and you become happy." This is advancement of civilization. "Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car." That's all. This is advancement of civilization. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is Vedic civilization. "Let everyone be happy." That is Vedic civilization. And the demonic civilization, they're: "Let everyone suffer; I become happy. That's all." And Vaiṣṇava is thinking, "For my salvation it is already guaranteed." But he is thinking, "How these poor people will be saved?" Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Prahlāda Mahārāja. This is Vaiṣṇava's position. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He's unhappy by seeing others unhappy.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is because they have been so trained from childhood.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have been trained so (indistinct) from childhood, meat-eating, drinking wine, drinking tea, smoking, and illicit sex, but they gave up immediately.

Dr. Patel: But in hygiene also they have (indistinct) our way.

Prabhupāda: They are observing hygienic principle as far as possible, but only thing is they require little guidance.

Dr. Patel: This kitchen behind is too small, hotel, they...

Prabhupāda: No. We can make a big kitchen, we have got enough room.

Dr. Patel: I told them, maybe away we must have a small room attached to it where these boys can take... (break) (Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...I am not this body.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That we are also thinking, "There is no Kṛṣṇa. There is no background." We are also thinking. (chuckles) Although we are big, big leaders, we are simply imitators of the westerners. That's all. Western people are our father and mother. That is our modern Indian... Now, western people are drinking wine. Now the government is drinking. Gandhi stopped it, but "No, the western people do." Unless they drink wine, they cannot be very... They work...

Dr. Patel: Here they are all now alco...

Prabhupāda: So western people, western civilization has become the father and mother of India.

Dr. Patel: They idolize.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I have not got that experience. When I was a student in London, in London University, the boys there, they drink but not that much as they drink here. They are abusing it.

Prabhupāda: Every, every few steps there is a wine shop.

Dr. Patel: Now, every few steps, now you can have that in your own home. Here. You give the minister ten thousand rupees of bribes for a license to... (break) ...have in your home. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...these four things which we are prohibiting: illicit sex...

Dr. Patel: And drinking, meat-eating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling. So these four things are encouraged by the government. Gambling, that, what is that? Lottery.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Only the... People everywhere, all over the world, they are all good. Only the leaders make them bad. That's all. That is my opinion. Misleaders. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). The so-called śreṣṭha, leaders, they... Just like in India. When Gandhi was there it was prohibition, and now there is wine shop every step. It is due to the leaders. People, people, what the innocent people, what they'll do?

Dr. Patel: You are talking of this, but I am the knower of the private character of so many businessman.

Prabhupāda: Why you know? Everyone knows.

Dr. Patel: They have got so many women outside, and some of them want every day new one. All sorts of rascals they are. (break) Raja should rule, and not these...

Prabhupāda: Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnāḥ.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ (SB 5.5.1).

Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...

Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Śva-viḍ... Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"

Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And he was earning fifty-thousand rupees at that time, fifty years ago. What is the value, just see. He was earning and spending like anything, lavishly, and he was so bad associated that wine and woman was his paraphernalia. That's all. As soon as there will be case engaged the first order is that "You have to supply so many cases of wine and so many batches of prostitute." That was C.R. Dasa's condition, first condition. In the Mopaceel(?) court when he would be invited to plead, the first condition is this. Then his fees. So in this way he was living. But he gave up. On Congress Movement he gave up everything practiced, but he died within one year. Because he was living so luxuriously, all of a sudden he became a renouncer, he could not tolerate that. He died. Within one year he died. So therefore these ministers, they gave up all this luxurious life, became a mendicant. The question is how they lived? Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha-vat bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna kan... Then gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtādhi-laharī-kallola-magnau sadā: They were fully absorbed in the thought of how Kṛṣṇa, and His pastimes with His gopīs. He was always absorbed. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Find out wine and woman. That's all.

Girirāja: (reading) "While they were thus enjoying themselves..."

Prabhupāda: But in America I don't think there is such thing.

Dr. Patel: These nightclubs and all these things is of this type.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: I have not seen a single nightclub though I studied in England for two years. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Nārada, but still they are sinful. Such a great personality like Nārada, they had seen, but still they are sinful. Go on.

Girirāja: "As such, the great sage Nārada considered that because the demigods Nalakūvara and Maṇigrīva were so infatuated by false prestige, they should be put in a condition of life devoid of opulence." (break)

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...street you'll find, both ways, boarding: generally cigarette, wine, and...?

Dr. Patel: And the night clubs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naked woman, that's all. Both sides it is there. They advertise. Here... In America, anywhere you deposit forty dollars. Next day you get everything. (break) ...they say, "This year it is now reduced." Mean "Criminality, let go on, but from the last year, this year it is now reduced." That's all. (break) "...are drinking. Therefore you cannot call me drunkard." This is the logic. (break) These rogues and thieves will increase. That is the law of nature. Men... (breaks) They have a fire(?). (break) ...took down. (break) ...police, they simply only note down.

Dr. Patel: In America also, like here?

Prabhupāda: That's all. My things were stolen from my apartment in the beginning, so I went to the police. They simply noted down. That's all. (break) ...you can narrate the incidents when the negro at San Francisco...

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, people, people have become godless everywhere. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu. That is a general disease. So actually, everyone is concerned now with material comforts. But these material comforts mean wine and women, that's all. Substance of material comforts. So that they have enjoyed enough. The facility of enjoying woman and getting money, there is no limit. There is no limit. Anyone, the money is thrown in the street. You can simply collect. And similarly, women are available. So actually, they do not get any happiness by these material elements. They are seeking after something, that's a fact.

Guest (7): But isn't the Kṛṣṇa consciousness has not spread in the Arab world?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is spreading. We have got branch in Iran.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So one must be intelligent enough to see God. Now, the bird I do not see, but I am hearing the sound. So one must know there is a nice bird. Because the varṇāśrama-dharma is lacking, nobody is being educated as a brāhmaṇa. They have lost all knowledge. Suppose in the society there is nobody educated as engineer; you don't find any engineers. So who will understand this? Unless one becomes brahminical qualified, they cannot understand. Therefore a class of men must be there, trained up as brāhmaṇa. Then the understanding of God consciousness will be there. Otherwise finished. So now this rascal civilization, they are simply creating śūdras. What they will understand? Simply śūdras. Factories and this, for technology. And because they are getting money, they are thinking, "Now we have got everything." On the money standard. Actually they have no knowledge. Just like we find a expert electrician and we pay him sufficiently, say hundred dollars, but does it mean that he has knowledge? He is expert in that śūdra's work, that's all. That does not mean, because he has got money, he has got all knowledge. But people accept, "Oh, he has money. His life is successful. He has got all knowledge." That's all. And if you go, if you speak about God, "Oh, these men are beggars. They have made a profession." That's all. So if the society does not accept the proposition of Kṛṣṇa, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13), they will suffer because the God consciousness will be lost. It is already lost. It may not be that everyone is God conscious, but a section... Just like it may not be that everybody is a physician, but a physician must remain there, must be there so that when one is difficulty by disease, the physician may help him. Similarly, if in the society the brāhmaṇa class and above, post-graduate of brāhmaṇa class, Vaiṣṇava, is not there, then the whole society will spoil . They will indulge in this meat-eating and drinking wine and illicit sex.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That sūri bari means wine shop where wine is distilled and sold. That is called sūri bari. And those who are wine sellers, they are called sūri. So I see that Nityānanda is going to a wine shop. So if I say, "Oh, Nityānanda is now spoiled. He is going to wine shop." No. We should not see that. We should know Nityānanda is pure. If he is going to sūri bari, wine shop, he has some business. But because he is going to the sūri bari he is not polluted. I shall not follow him, "Because Nityānanda has gone sūri bari, therefore I shall go." Kṛṣṇa danced with young girls, other's wives always. That does not mean I shall imitate that. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we have to follow that. That's all. Kṛṣṇa never said that "You also dance like me in rāsa dance." Has He said anywhere? Then how can you do that? Whatever He does, He has got purpose. His work is all right. But I cannot imitate His work. The example is given that the sunshine is soaking urine. Can you imitate that, you drink urine? So tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). If Christ has done something, he is Lord Jesus Christ, he might have done it for some purpose, but we cannot follow that. We have to follow what he has ordered. That's all. (break)

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prostitute is necessity. Otherwise these rascals, they will pollute all the woman. Therefore, for the rascals there must be some provision. Just like opening wine shop. It is not meant for everyone. But there are drunkards. Unless they get drinking, they will create some disturbance.

Bhāgavata: So just like in Dvārakā there was prostitutes, and they were all devotees of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many devotees, prostitutes.

Bhāgavata: So that was their service, not their service, but that was their work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: But, still they were devotees of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: I mean a Roman, perhaps, has never heard of Kṛṣṇa before. He breaks all your five rules, does he not, every day. Is that a sin in him? If he drinks wine...

Dhanañjaya: He's saying, all the people in Rome who have never heard of Kṛṣṇa...

Richard Webster: They drink wine and do all the things which are... Well, perhaps not all, but anyway, some of them. Would that be...

Prabhupāda: I do not...

Dhanañjaya: He's asking if they're very sinful if they don't have any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or any of the rules of our movement.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Law cannot be different, but it can be modified according to the time and circumstances. But the law cannot be different.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Maybe you could ask specific examples of differences.

Richard Webster: Well, for Roman Catholics it is right to drink wine, for instance.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Drinking, intoxication.

Richard Webster: Not intoxication, to drink wine.

Atreya Ṛṣi: What is wine? He's saying that a Roman Catholic can take wine. The law allows them to take wine.

Richard Webster: Or tobacco or meat.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Or tobacco or meat. So the rules are different.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well, that is a possible argument, but I'm thinking about even lesser things such as wine or...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine. Can...

Richard Webster: And no Roman Catholic will admit that it is wrong to drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Wine is sanctioned?

Richard Webster: I don't mean to get drunk. I mean to...

Atreya Ṛṣi: Wine, for today's Roman Catholics, they think it is sanctioned.

Prabhupāda: They think so many other things also. Just like Roman Catholics, there is example: they have allowed marriage between man to man. Do you know that?

Richard Webster: No.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Christianity does not mean in New York it should be different and Rome it should be different. Then nobody is following.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Could it be, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this sanction of wine drinking be from God? Could that sanction come from God? Do we think that is possible?

Prabhupāda: We don't find there is sanction by God to drink. But under certain circumstances, beverages, different types of beverages allowed, not for intoxication but for keeping health. That is different thing. Just like in the moon planet, it is mentioned they drink soma-rasa. Soma-rasa is a kind of beverage made from extract of herbs. So because it is very cold there, so they drink that, but not for intoxication. People drink for intoxication. Just like in medicine, so many drugs are used. Even opium is used. Yes. Morphia is used. But they are not used ordinarily. For a specific purpose. Even snake poison is used, but that does not mean snake poison should be used perpetually. So for benefit of the body under particular circumstances something may be recommended, but that is not for general use or for intoxication.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. If this man is fed up with this industry, he can go back to village and produce his own food. But he is attached to this industrial activity because he is thinking that "We are getting more money for wine and woman and meat. Let me enjoy." That is the perfect, imp... But if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, his consciousness will be purified and he will be made not interested this kind of work. He will go back to village and produce food. This is French?

Atreya Ṛṣi: No. It is new, 62 the new American. (BTG?)

Yogeśvara: This was your idea, to put the temple buildings on the magazine. Jayādvaita wrote me about that.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What you have produced, that's all. Very simple thing. Everyone was engaged producing. There was no necessity. And here the rascals are advising, produce bolts and nuts, tire, and drill petrol. They are not producing food. And the so-called government men, they are levying taxes, and they are enjoying. They haven't got to produce food. They are killing animals, eating, and digesting with wine. And then woman. That's all. This is their business. And food price is increasing daily. They don't mind because they will print paper, and to the supplier they will give paper. That's all.

Bhagavān: Print more paper.

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.

Satsvarūpa: But sometimes, because this materialistic society is so far advanced, you say we cannot actually hope to change it.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, this is the..., that you do it. If they do not do it, then who will come? This declaration is there, that "If you do this, then you can be interested." But if you do not, then you go on with your own business. A similar... The same things Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parit... mām ekam. Kṛṣṇa is demanding that you do it, "Surrender unto Me." The śāstra also says, "Surrender unto the representative of Kṛṣṇa," mahīyasām. But if they do not do, what can be done? Just see this sparrow. The sex is always accompanying, any time ready. The pigeons, any time ready. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. That is the only attachment for this material world, viṣaya. Whole world is fighting for this viṣaya. "I must have nice eating, I must have nice sleeping, I must have very good sex, and I should be defended by bank balance, by military soldiers, by police force, by atomic weapons." This is going on. Defense. Rascal does not understand that "In spite of all these things, I will have to change the body, and the same thing will be available again, in a different way." This intoxication, cigarettes. The ant, the small ant, they are very fond of intoxication. You know that? As soon as there is information, "On the top of the skyscraper building, there is a grain of sugar," they will go. (laughing) Because sugar contains intoxication. The wine is made from sugar, molasses. It has got the intoxication. You keep a grain of sugar there, and there will be hundreds and thousands... (laughter) Gold rush. Study. You see what is the difference of this civilization and the ant civilization, dog civilization, cat civilization. No difference. It is in the simply formation only.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: The price is the standard, not that goods are required. They want money for purchasing wine. This is the difficulty. They are not satisfied simply by eating sufficient. They want money for woman and wine. This is their philosophy.

Bhagavān: In the United States that same problem was there, that the prices were all going up. Everything was having inflation.

Prabhupāda: So if they had sense, they should have exported where there is necessity of this milk, butter, grain. Then the world will be happy.

Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized." (break) ...this Geneva very many churches.

Guru-gaurāṅga: Many churches in Geneva? No.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guru-gaurāṅga: Not so many.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they're all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they're sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch?

Satsvarūpa: Watchtower?

Prabhupāda: Watchtower. Yes.

Guru-gaurāṅga: They did a survey among the Catholic priests...

Prabhupāda: What is this? They do not fight. Why there is soldier? (laughter) What nonsense. Why there are soldiers? The neutral? 1939. This is Second World War. And First World War, 19...

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: ...brain, they have created something, but it will be used for sinful activities: drinking wine, meat-eating and sex. Not for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Duṣkṛtina. They use their brain, but for sinful activities. This is duṣkṛtina.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: There's the verse in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā that what is night for the materialistic man is the time of awakening for the introspective sage.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-gaurāṅga: These scientists, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that their research is neutral, and it is not their fault that the use of their discoveries is detrimental. Like that man yesterday, he said, "It is not my bomb."

Prabhupāda: Oh, then whose bomb?

Car Conversation on the way to Chateau -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: "...houses. Our houses are too expensive." It's a big problem everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Why do they not go outside?

Bhagavān: The problem is in the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rascals, they want to live in city and drink wine and eat meat. So there must be problems. This civilization is simply to create problems, anartha. Anartha. Anartha means unnecessarily problems. So these rascals, they do not know how to solve it. But the solution is this bhakti-yoga. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: ...not for any spiritual advancement.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, they say it's important for them... (break) ...to elevate themselves to higher types of yoga by first going through the gymnastics.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But gradually they will eat more meat and drink more wine. They, do they follow these principles: no intoxication, no meat, the so-called yoga practitioners?

Paramahaṁsa: Some, some do.

Prabhupāda: So it is not compulsory.

Bhagavān: One thing is, though, that people all over the world have great, great interest in India. They're looking for something in India.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything—they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?

Bhagavān: Folies Bergere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we have heard from our childhood that Paris is a place where people can go and enjoy prostitution. When we were children. I told you last night. So this city is undoubtedly constructed with good merit, but it is used for sinful act... Nobody goes to... Beautiful church, nobody goes there. But beautiful, that theater, because there is naked dance, everyone goes. And therefore duṣkṛtina. Church is vacant. Only the tourists come to see the churches. Not that such a important city, always glorification of Lord is going on. Just like we are trying to do. Take prasādam, worship the Deity, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That would have been the activities of these beautiful churches, but there is no such activity, because people are duṣkṛtina.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Generally, we see now, especially in the western countries, they are working so hard. The master is wine and woman. That's all. Is it not? They have made their master wine and women. In Paris we see everywhere. On the street they are drinking and talking. In Germany also, I have seen. You have been in Germany?

Devotee: Amsterdam is the same way.

Prabhupāda: Amsterdam is a place simply for prostitutes.

Devotee: It is the center.

Prabhupāda: This is very prominent in the western country, which we are asking, that no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex. These things are only thing enjoyable.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: But before that, they were not drinking.

Haṁsadūta: There may have been something like wine. The monks also used to make wine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they make wine. Uncivilized men, they know how to make wine. In India they do so by rice boiling and keep it for some days. It becomes wine, fermented. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...used to say that "I was drinking beer in barrels." He said. Forty years ago he said me like that. Here I don't see them, but Hamburg I have seen, yes, passing urine on the roadside. There are so many urine coming from the wall. 'Cause the more you drink beer, you will pass urine more. The German language is trinken, trinking. Drinking means trinking. Yes, I have seen it. Trinking or trinken?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No. Coca-Cola company... Of course, we advise... Kṛṣṇa advises, yat karoṣi. It includes Coca-Cola company. But He said yat karoṣi: "Whatever you do." Kṛṣṇa said, "Whatever you do." So that includes all kinds of activities. But will the Coca-Cola company agree to give the profit to Kṛṣṇa? Then he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. The profit he will enjoy for his wine and woman, that's all, not for Kṛṣṇa. That is the difficulty.

Guest: Can the profit of the manufacture of something which is manufactured purely for profit be turned to good?

Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gives to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He fought. He killed. Killing is not good business, but he killed on the advice of Kṛṣṇa, and he became a bhakta by killing. Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. And what did he do? He killed, that's all. This is an example. Of course, bhakta never kills. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna was not willing to kill. But when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it, so this is my first business. Never mind I shall go to hell," that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. "By killing my brother I may go to hell. It doesn't matter. But Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That is my first business." Kṛṣṇa sometimes pretended to be sick.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...mediately manage. "Stop all these worker illicit sex, intoxication, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." The whole atmosphere will change. The production will be increased. There will be no dissatisfaction among the worker and the capitalists. Immediately everything will be solved. Now the competition is going on that the capitalist is exacting as much money from their labor, and he is spending it for wine and women, and the worker is seeing that "Our money, he's spending. Why not ourself? So let us form a communist party. Let us fight." This is going on. But they do not know how to spend money, śūdras. When a śūdra gets money, he'll spend for wine and women. That's all. He does not know that it should be spent for Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And in India even, these things are going on, the land of Bhagavad-gītā, the land of Kṛṣṇa. If you want to read Bhagavad-gītā, you take it. You follow it. Then everything will be done. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. Api te su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. These things are there. You may be fallen, downtrodden, but if you take to Kṛṣṇa's instructions, then kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. Very soon you'll become... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). These things are there. And nobody is serious to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They'll talk all nonsense, but he'll not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is going on. So our task is very difficult, and especially all these prohibitive rules: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking or chewing pan. So who will accept this philosophy? It is very difficult. Nobody can. Unless he is very serious about Kṛṣṇa, nobody will take. They have not taken. These principles are our Indian principles. Striyas-suna-pana dyutaḥ yatra pāpas catur vidhaḥ. But who is taking this? Now they are becoming expert in intoxication, drinking wine. You see. This is India's position. In Europe, America, they do that because there was no such philosophy. But India... Here it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya karmaṇām (BG 7.28). That, nobody's interested.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: They had this tree where I used to live, also. I don't remember the name of it. In California.

Śrutakīrti: On the airplane coming here they had some article in one of the airline books about eucalyptus trees and how these monks, they make wine out of the eucalyptus. The Trappist monks. Some kind of Trappist monks, they make wine out of the eucalyptus, and they have a big store, and they sell it, in Italy. That's their profession, making different liquors.

Amogha: Recently we have shown the film and spoken in several Catholic schools in Melbourne. They have comparative religion classes, and they ask us to come to their high schools to teach comparative religion so the students can see what other religions think. Usually they...

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. All bogus. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo. Only religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: If you surrender to God, then you become perfect.

Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then there is contradiction?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. The Christians always say that Christ was eating fish and drinking wine, so what problem have we got? Drinking a little alcohol, eating a little meat?

Prabhupāda: Then how did he say that "Thou shall not kill"?

Śrutakīrti: That was actually the Ten Commandments. That was given by God.

Gaṇeśa: Given to Moses.

Śrutakīrti: That was given to Moses by God. The Ten Commandments.

Prabhupāda: That is not Christ has said?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, they will live, just like they are living. They are coming from the same group. But they are now saintly. It is a question of training them. I have no facility. Whatever I have done, by personal endeavor and their cooperation. Neither your government, I mean the Western government, they helped me, neither my government helped me, although we are struggling to make class of men ideal. They appreciate, but they do not give us... Now, just like we have purchased this house by our endeavor, with great difficulty, because we have no income. We write our books, then we sell, we get some income. So somehow or other we expand. But no government is helping us. They are increasing brothels, drinking. At least in India there was no drinking propaganda. Now the government is making that. They are opening wine shop. India, even in the British period, drinking was very, very restricted. Very, very restricted. First of all socially if anyone drinks, he is rejected as gentleman.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Tea was taken in our childhood if somebody is coughing, sometimes they used to tea. That was also later. But it was unknown. Drinking tea, drinking wine, smoking, meat-eating—these things were unknown. Prostitution. There was prostitution. Not that everyone is prostitute. Very strict. So these things should be taken care of—at least a class of men must be ideal for people others will see. And the training should go on, just like we are doing. We are inviting people to come to chant with us, to dance with us, take prasādam. And gradually they are becoming. The same (?) addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat-eating, he is becoming saintly person. This is practical, you can see, what was their previous history and what they are now.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In Paris very, very old men, seventy-five years, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub, paying $50 entrance fee, then they spend money for woman, wine. And few hours they stay there and come back. They are all old men. It is very difficult job, but still by Kṛṣṇa's grace you are accepting this principle. That is great mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is very, very difficult. One old man, I told you that Marquis of Zetland? In London? So he proposed one of my Godbrothers went, "Can you make me brāhmaṇa?" "Oh, yes. You give up this habit." "Oh, that is impossible. That is impossible. This is our life." So in the Western countries that is the life, to have illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, and gambling. There are organized clubs, brothels, hotels, only for this. People are accepting this principle, young boys like you, it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy on us. Otherwise it is impossible.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Śūdra. So long he has got money to eat, he will sleep on the beach. He will not work. That is śūdra. And if he has got enough money, then he will spend it for wine and women. That's all. So long he has got money, he will not work. And as soon as he has got money, he will spend it for wine and woman. This is called śūdra.

Bali-mardana: There are over eleven million people in the United States just living on welfare. (break)

Gurukṛpa: ...big calamity such as a big earthquake, like that, then...

Prabhupāda: We shall return now?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Gurukṛpa: Then they request everyone to pray to God for help. Outside of that, they will not have any interest.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...be superintend when the garden opens. (break) ... saw the question, but he cannot answer. So he began to write words like this, whole book, and the examiners saw that it has no meaning. But he has coined so many words. They said, "Very intelligent." They passed him. (laughter) Now, "upperfluous." You don't find all these words in dictionary. "Upperfluous rain of agua was dogbendikulali gondolized by lacticism of wine." It appears very gramatically nice composed, but it has no meaning. So he coined such words, a full book. Because he could not answer. So the time was there. He began to coin words. And he was passed, for his intelligence. Similarly, these people are putting words which you cannot understand, and they are getting their salaries, that's all. (break) ...invent something, that they will not die, there will be no disease, there will be no old age.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There must be something to repose my love. So they have no family, no Kṛṣṇa. So naturally keep dog. (break) ...must be there, to love. That is my tendency, but if I have nothing, then I will have to catch the dog. What can be done? (break) ...furnish this television. Dog and television and whiskey and cigarette. That's all. (laughter) Is it not? (break) ...in India these things are entering: dog, television. And cigarette, wine, has already entered.

Bahulāśva: This is the degradation. (break)

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Bahulāśva: So much sex, everything you watch.

Prabhupāda: And not only that, horrible scene.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But they cannot go. That's a fact. According to their estimation, the moon is the nearest. So they cannot go there. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...deva-vratā devān. Moon is one of the heavenly planets. So unless one is very advanced in karma-kāṇḍa, offering sacrifices, nobody can go there. It is not so easy. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). Those who are more and more higher status of goodness, they are promoted in the highest planet. Not by drinking wine and driving a sputnik one can... (laughter) It is not so easy. (break) ...also drink soma-rasa. The residents of the moon, they live for ten thousand years.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten thousand of their years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, deva.

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: "Money means happiness." This is the civilization. And after getting money, drink wine and topless, bottomless, and go to hell." That's all. This is their position, mūḍha, rākṣasa, thinking that "I am living this fifty years or hundred years so luxuriantly. That is the fulfillment of life." Because he does not know the life is eternal, one spot he is taking very important. The meaning of life, what is the aim of life—"Don't bother. Enjoy." And what is that enjoyment? Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). Is that enjoyment? (break) ...used in the Bhagavad-gītā, mūḍha, it is very appropriate. No knowledge. Not only here, throughout the whole universe, even in the upper planetary system, they are also engaged in the same foolishness. Greater fool and a smaller fool. (break) ...sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. That part is Canada?

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And taxation. And the taxation is divided among them. The tax is meant for public welfare. Instead of public welfare, they divide it amongst themselves and enjoy wine, women, motorcar and flesh. That's all. This is going on. All this income tax-plundering process. This income tax means a plan how to take away everything from the actually earning members of the society. That is income tax. And that is divided amongst administrators. That's all.

Cyavana: Here it is very prominent. The workers in the fields, they are barely making enough to live from day to day. But the planters who live in France, they are taking millions of rupees and living very comfortably.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Communism is coming. Go this way?

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Accha bole tomare lagdha, suta jagat murare.(?) You give me that chewra and milk and banana, nothing else. (break) ...and so much useless labor for growing tea, that will be stopped. You can grow food. (break) You drink tea, you'll require sugar. Then unnecessarily producing so much sugarcane. And the by-product of sugarcane, molasses, you'll have to utilize. Then produce wine, liquor. One after another.

Indian man (3): But our country depends upon sugar.

Prabhupāda: No, that is mistake. Your country, you can produce your own food. That's all. Why you should depend? You produce food grains. You produce milk. Then your all necessities is supplied. Why should you produce unnecessarily?

Brahmānanda: Here they use powdered milk because they have no cows.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract. So if they see practically that "These people are very happy; they have no anxiety," then they will be attracted. Is it not? What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure. To become pure is not at all difficult. Rather, to become impure, it is difficult.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, because Kṛṣṇa is vegetarian. Kṛṣṇa says... Kṛṣṇa can eat anything because He is God, but He recommends, "Give Me vegetable." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He never said, "You give Me meat or wine or this," no.

Faill: Those are all out. They have to be. And tobacco is...

Prabhupāda: Tobacco is also intoxication. We are already intoxicated in the bodily conception of life, and if we put more intoxication, then we are lost.

Faill: You mean these things just reinforce body consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you want to be treated, then we have to follow the instruction of the physician. He says "Don't take this. Don't take that. You eat only this." So we have got such prescription.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Purport: People in general are not very intelligent, and due to their ignorance they are most attached to the fruitive activities recommended in the karma-kāṇḍa portion of the Vedas. They do not want anything more than sense gratificatory proposals for enjoying life in heaven, where wine and women are available and material opulence is very common. In the Vedas many sacrifices are recommended for elevation to the heavenly planets, especially the jyotiṣṭoma sacrifices. In fact, it is stated that anyone desiring elevation to heavenly planets must perform these sacrifices, and men with a poor fund of knowledge think that this is the whole purpose of Vedic wisdom. It is very difficult for such inexperienced persons to be situated in the determined action of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.

Prabhupāda: In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tea?

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody would drink tea, no family. We have seen it. And for drinking, for drinking tea, drinking wine, regular propaganda was done. There was a tea assess(?) (tea sets?) committee. Men these foreigners, they began to grow tea in India in the beginning for exporting to Europe and America… Later on, they began to pay some tax to the government. That was known as "tea assess(?) committee." The tea assess(?) committee, in order to popularize drinking tea, they used to hold stall, just like here in park and public places, and they would prepare very tasty tea and distribute free.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Free.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And advertise, "If you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry. Your health will be improved," and so on, so on. In this way they distribute pamphlet and giving free. Just like we distribute prasādam, they used to distribute very tasteful tea, and people liked it: "Oh, it is very nice." Then they began to drink. Vigorous propaganda. And culturally, in our school days they wrote… One Mr. N. Ghosh, he, bribed by the Britishers, he wrote one book, England's Work in India. So all the, just like Sati rites…

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the proprietor left and the poor cultivators, śūdras, they are accustomed to live in cottages. India's civilization was based on village residence. They would live very peacefully in the villages. In the evening there would be bhdgavata-kathā. They will hear. That was Indian culture. They had no artificial way of living, drinking tea, and meat-eating and wine and illicit sex. No. Everyone was religious and satisfied by hearing—what we are just introducing—Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Purāṇas, and live simple life, keeping cows, village life as it is exhibited by Kṛṣṇa, Vṛndāvana. Kṛṣṇa, if He liked, He could have lived in the cities. (pause) So the education was meant for teaching people to hate everything Indian.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Everyone is against this movement. So who is coming to save us? Nobody is coming. Kṛṣṇa is saving. Otherwise it would have been stopped long, long ago. I was thinking that “As soon as I shall propose all these things, immediately these American people will ask me to go back home. Instead of go back to Godhead, "You go back to India." (laughter) So it is Kṛṣṇa's kindness that you, a few boys and girls, have accepted this principle. Otherwise who likes this? Nobody likes. Nobody likes. Lord Zetland flatly said, "Oh, it is impossible." This is the life and soul of the modem civilization. just see the advertisement-sex. You see, illicit sex. Who would like our movement? Nobody likes. What is this picture means? Sex, that's all. So many advertise…, wine advertisement, meat-eating, gambling—everything. The modern life is going on the basis of these four principles of sinful life, and we want to stop it. Nobody likes it. Still, we are selling so many books and people are hearing us… (break) (out of car) Why the scientist does not make chemical composition egg?

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without sex life one cannot be materially enthusiastic. And if you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced. This is the secret. If you stop sex life, then you become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex life, then you will be materially enthusiastic. That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture. The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex life, and here in the Western countries, how to increase sex life. They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine. These things will enthuse sex life. And as soon as you get very satisfactory sex life, you become enthused to work hard. Therefore karmīs, marriage is necessary, because without sex life they cannot work. And for jñānīs, yogis, bhaktas, sex life prohibited. Actually they do not know the science of life, this Western civilization. Their life means this body. Their life means this body.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Because they are rākṣasas. They are eating meat and drinking wine and illicit sex. Rākṣasa civilization. Hiraṇyakaśipu means... Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means soft bed. To learn, this is rākṣasa civilization. They are searching after soft bed and gold mine, hiraṇya.

Devotee (2): We have some guests.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. How do you know we have come here?

Indian (3): Well, Kṛṣṇa's grace showed me you were here.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That... Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) If any question, we are discussing so many things.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any questions?

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: "It is impossible. It will not be allowed, and they are trying for it. How this body can be maintained? 'Yes, we are trying. Now the disease has been reduced. Now they are living more days.' These are their foolish. They will never say, 'No, it is impossible.' Still, they will support their rascal endeavors." Modern advancement of science, what actually they have done? We are talking on that point. Simply misleading. The Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one nice... (tape recorded section accidentally plays) "eating meat and drinking wine." (Prabhupāda and devotees laugh at interruption. Harikeśa apologizes) That... He says, jada vidy saba māyāra vaibhava. Jada vidyā means material education, the so-called material science. So jada vidyā. Vidyā means education, so this expansion of knowledge means expansion of the influence of māyā. Jada vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. And the result is tomāra bhajane bādhā. People will forget God. With the advancement of so-called material science or material knowledge, the result will be that people will forget God. And then next, next is anitya saṁsāre moha janamiya.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: They hold more than one job. They have two jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Get money and then drink wine and eat meat and do all nonsense things. This is their civilization.

Jñāna: A farm means also we may engage the people because they are not so...

Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: I have seen. I was guest in his home, and this rascal is doing this. He is earning money, black market, white market, this mar... At any cost, and spending like this. That's all. There are many persons. Oh, in Europe also, the same thing. In Paris very, very old men, seventy-five years old, eighty years, they go to the night club. Entrance fee fifty dollar, then pay for the woman, wine. Spend few hours and spend two hundred, three hundred, five hundred dollars-go home. Then tranquilizer pill and sleep. This is going on. Therefore mūḍha.

Harikeśa: They've found with this monkey gland operation also that you become like a monkey after a while, that you develop lots of hair and jaw becomes prominent.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Harikeśa: Yes. They've found that.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you try for it? (laughter) You are supporter of Darwin's theory. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: "That's all right. Without serving Kṛṣṇa, I am getting pleasure by drinking wine. Why shall I...?"

Cyavana: That pleasure will not last. That pleasure is only temporary.

Prabhupāda: "No, I will not also last. (laughter) that..."

Cyavana: But to accept such a mentality, we say that is third class. Actually our life is eternal.

Prabhupāda: That is your statement, "third class," but my statement is "It is first class." (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Harikeśa: Is it first class if every time you are going to eat something nice I was standing over you with a stick, and as soon as you took, I would beat you? So every time you have some enjoyment, there is some concurrent suffering. Like you enjoy the wine, but then you have a headache, hangover. You enjoy. Then you get sick.

Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Tenth Chapter, He says, "For those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I will give the understanding by which they can come to Me." So this is our desire.

Prabhupāda: "I don't want to go."

Cyavana: You don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: "Yes."

Harikeśa: All right, suffer. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: "I don't suffer. (laughter) I am enjoying."

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Once they are accustomed to take these four things, especially meat-eating and drinking, it is not possible to give it up. Very difficult. Without drinking wine or without eating meat, they do not feel refreshed.

Cyavana: They're in such anxiety all throughout the day that at night they cannot sleep unless they have a woman and some meat and some wine. Their minds cannot rest unless they take that.

Prabhupāda: When we shall go?

Cyavana: Shall we go now?

Prabhupāda: No, I am asking when we shall go.

Brahmānanda: At the temple, the Deities are open at seven o'clock. It's now twenty minutes after seven, so they're having ārati now. Ārati will be finished in just ten minutes.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes, drinking.

Prabhupāda: That sugar, they say that the ants they are very intoxicants; therefore they like sugar. Sugar is intoxication. Wine is made from sugar. Yes.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. Molasses.

Prabhupāda: Molasses. Ferment molasses with sulphuric acid and then distill. It is wine, liquor. People are producing unnecessary quantity of sugarcane; therefore the drinking habit is increasing. Because from sugar the molasses is the by-product, so they have to use. They are finding out what is next industry, and the next industry is liquor, wine. So when they produce more wine, then they must sell, and the people must drink. This is going on, one after another. And in Hawaii, Mauritius and in so many other places we see they have produced unnecessary quantity of sugarcane. And then molasses... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. And then wine, and they must be sold.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All sinful activity. Ugra-karma. And if you drink wine, then you must require meat. Otherwise your liver function will be bad. There must be lump of meat. And as soon as wine and meat combine, then you require illicit sex. It is one after another. This is scientific. So we stop immediately: "Stop these four principles." Then one will be free from sinful life. Then he'll understand what is God. Otherwise not possible. A sinful man cannot understand what is God. Why the whole world is godless? On account of the sinful life, they cannot understand.

Devotee (2): So the means of production have to be changed into pious type of...

Prabhupāda: No. If you stop sinful activities, the production will automatically stop. If there is no market for wine, then it will stop automatically. So you stop drinking, and the market for liquor will stop. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we can return. (break) ...has not come today? He is entangled with his grandson.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are giving old wine in new bottle. If it is old, why the up-to-date Western boys are taking? It may be old for you rascals, but those who are intelligent...

Devotee (1): They think that they are frustrated. They have nothing more to do except this.

Prabhupāda: Then why they take this? Why not your philosophy? Why they take this philosophy? Why not the Russian philosophy?

Devotee (1): So they are going to take. That's the reason they are putting the Russian books.

Harikeśa: Well, lots of people take the Russian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: No, they are exhibiting here in India, but why in Europe, America, they are not taking?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Drink wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And have women.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...drinking wine and eating meat, the next stage is illicit sex. Is that the business of the Hindu monk? There are sampradāyas, Rāmānuja sampradāya, Śaṅkara sampradāya. But where the Hindu monk drinks and eats meat? They have introduced it. Is that Hinduism?

Acyutānanda: (break) Satajit.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays everyone has become impersonal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...pure Vaiṣṇava. What is that?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...simply man looks after the animals, that he's strong and happy, they'll get food grains, the cooperation, and both of them happy. But they're not looking to that. They are trying to sell the grains and get more money, and purchase wine and enjoy. And when the animal will be unable to work, sell him to the slaughterhouse and get money. And for these sinful activities, they are suffering.

Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body."

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: They should allow from States also.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...milk is cheaper than the bottle.

Dr. Patel: Just as wine is cheaper in Paris than water. I had to pay more for a glass of water. (Hindi) (break) It is not here, but...

Prabhupāda: It is in Delhi.

Dr. Patel: They should come here. So they may arrive some day.

Prabhupāda: So where is? Arrange to bring him. Otherwise they will not believe.

Dr. Patel: No, no, we believe you, sir. But we want a darśana of it. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So ask. Bring it in the meantime. (break) ...not less than one lakh of devotees, at least, so crowded.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So this movement should be pushed very vigorously. And so far, we have become successful. And enemies will be always, as soon as there is something good. That is the way of material world. Even Kṛṣṇa had enemies, what to speak of us. Eh? So many enemies, but He was powerful; He killed all them. Nobody could kill Him, but there was attempt to kill Him from the very beginning of His birth. He had so many enemies. As soon as Kaṁsa heard that his sister is now newly married, but as soon as there was some foretelling, "Ah, you are taking care of your sister so nicely. The eighth child of this sister will kill you." "Oh, where is your child? Where is pregnancy?" Nothing. He became angry. "So why wait for eighth child? Kill my sister." Long, long before taking birth of Kṛṣṇa, the mother was to be killed. This is the position of this material world. So he became so bad that "My sister..." He did not consider that "She is my sister, and she is just newly married. Where is pregnancy? Where is child? And that is the eighth child, and what will happen after that?" No consideration. Immediately, "Kill him, kill her." This is the position. So we are instructing: no intoxication. So those who are flourishing by selling cigarettes and wine and liquor, they do not... "Immediately kill him." Oh, yes, in this way. "If they, the movement goes and becomes very strong, then our business will be lost. Kill him." So naturally they will be enemies. The same thing, the Kaṁsa saw that "This my sister, now she is married.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes, business. Why so much sugarcane? The islands of Hawaii, they grow more sugarcane. We have seen all the islands. Huge (indistinct). The sugarcane is required for manufacturing wine. (break) ...drink tea. He's much (indistinct) of sugar, and from molasses, they manufacture wine. Unnecessary things. Misadjustment and they're (indistinct).

Hari-śauri: Even when they try to grow the grains, they can't guarantee it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: Like in Russia, they projected they would grow so much grains...

Prabhupāda: Nature will punish them. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature is Lord's (indistinct) maintainer, he's observing, factually. (indistinct)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Excuse me. Just like, say, America takes up this idea, that God is the Supreme Father and...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say (indistinct) God in trust.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And where does it say he ate any meat? Never. Simply fish. So we should tell them, "Then you eat fish, but don't eat meat. Stop meat-eating."

Hari-śauri: One of the great things is that they like to drink wine as well, because Jesus drank wine.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, he drank wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he didn't go to the bar. The way he drank wine was in a sacrifice. You're drinking in a bar. So anyway, we should tell them, if you...

Prabhupāda: Jesus drank wine, but nobody said Jesus is a drunkard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Drunkard, exactly. And you can also, when you can do all the things that he did, then you can also drink wine.

Prabhupāda: No, Jesus was crucified, I shall crucify you. Come on. You're so pious that now you prepare to be crucified. Come on.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: There is no first-class men. All fourth-class men. They do not know what is first-class men. If one has got money, then he's all right. That is Kali-yuga. No qualification. But if you have got money, then it is all right. You are big man. Money's everything at the present moment. People, they are trying to accumulate money by all means. Never mind first class, second class, third class, bring money any way. Rather, if one does not drink, he's a third-class man. And if one drinks, he's first-class man. Civilized. In India, formerly, any gentleman comes, a glass of water or two sandeśa was given. Now that is rejected. If a gentleman is not offered a bag(?) of wine and some chicken, then it is not proper reception. (break) ...building?

Devotee (2): It's an office building, a big one in Renaissance Center. Those ones to your left are under construction.

Prabhupāda: Oh, templelike.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for it? (laughter) Wine is highly taxed in India. When I was manager in Dr. Bose's laboratory, he was manufacturing alcohol(?) for medicinal purposes. The cost was one rupee eight annas per gallon. The government was levying duty. For medicinal purpose, five rupees per gallon, whereas purchasing liquor, fifty-eight. The government would take profit out of it, fifty-eight rupees.

Satsvarūpa: (indistinct) Fifth Canto (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Today, there was description, there is description, the fight was so severe that the blood sprinkled up to the sun planet. So why not moon planet? Why they say sun planet? The sun is the nearest planet from the earth. So this calculation.... They say the sun planet is 93,000,000 miles away from earth? And if you add further 1,600,000 miles, it comes to about fifteen (50?) million miles. Fifteen (50?) million miles, they have calculated, go there by the sputnik at the rate of 13,000 miles per hour. (indistinct)

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Satsvarūpa: This priest who joined us, who's now your man, he said that although he was a priest, he smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and drank all kind of wine. He began to drink wine, he said, because in their mass, in their ceremony, the priest drinks wine. And then then he became addicted.

Prabhupāda: These rascals are priests. And they'll protect religion.

Hari-śauri: We used to have a Reverend who was in charge of our local church when I was a child. And when we used to go on outings, sometimes they used to organize outings for children to the seaside and everything, and they would stop at a public house and they would give refreshments. So all the children would get lemonade, like that, and the grown-ups would go and drink some beer or something. So the...

Prabhupāda: Their father, mother drinking, and the child is given some soft drinking. And learning how to drink when he'll grow up.

Hari-śauri: This vicar, he used to sit, and he used to sip small glass of clear liquid. So everyone thought he was drinking water, but then once they checked, and it was pure vodka.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: All for the advantage of some wealthy man.

Prabhupāda: And after this hard labor, his only recreation is wine. Did you drink?

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Yes, we used to go straight from the steel works to the pub, public house.

Jagadīśa: I also worked in a factory for a while. Same thing. And people were always getting hurt.

Prabhupāda: You are not meant for that. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: I thought you joined from college?

Jagadīśa: Yes, but during the summer I had a job in a factory.

Prabhupāda: Oh, to get some money.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Without them, the factories cannot go on. That's all. The white men cannot work so hard. How they...? No gentleman can do that. This kind of work is meant for the fourth-class, fifth-class men. Therefore they cannot say anything. They require. And they know that their money will be taken away again by supplying them wine. They'll pay, and next moment, the wine merchant will take away. And the government will get huge profit without doing anything. And excise tax. Excise tax, government hasn't got to invest or do anything—simply take the tax.

Hari-śauri: Every time they put a tax increase, it's always on beer and cigarettes. Always, every time. And motorcars. Because they know the people are so much addicted that even if they squeeze and squeeze and squeeze, they will still get more, and the people will still pay.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Well, then.... Trying to be perfect.

Satsvarūpa: Flesh, skin disease.

Prabhupāda: Perfect does not mean that they should eat meat and drink wine. That does not mean. What is his objection?

Satsvarūpa: I think what it comes down to is that he objects that we are against illicit sex.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) That means he is accustomed.

Jagadīśa: These professors sit around, discuss topics of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and drink wine.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Salt?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When it snows on the highways, trucks come and they pour salt so it keeps the snow melting. More friction on the road for the tires.

Prabhupāda: Wine and cigarettes, just like here you can purchase by slot. What is called?

Hari-śauri: Machine.

Prabhupāda: Machine. Yes. You pay and get cigarette and tin can. There are many boxes like that on the street, public street. And they pass urine on the road. There is no restriction, standing apart.

Hari-śauri: Like dogs and cats.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Like dogs and cats.

Prabhupāda: Every few steps, there is a shop, young girls, wine, and a man is sitting.

Hari-śauri: Germany is very famous for its beer festivals. Germany. It's very famous for it's beer festivals.

Prabhupāda: Beer. Yes. Sadānanda told me. He was drinking beer in barrels. (laughs) He told me.

Hari-śauri: They even have a mug so big that it takes one gallon of beer at a time.

Prabhupāda: And they drink.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's possible in the summer season, one of the big tourist attraction is to go to these big beer festivals. And you can go, they last about a fortnight, one week or a fortnight, and you can travel down the Rhine Valley and move every week to a new beer festival, like that, all through the summer. It's a big tourist thing. (end)

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't want to become like their parents. They don't see that their parents are a desirable example to follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Wine and sex. They see from childhood. One boy, Rancor, so his father and mother divorced and he was young child. He was the first child of his mother. And the mother, he said, would daily bring a new friend. So he could understand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A new woman.

Prabhupāda: Not new woman, his mother, he was under the care of mother.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, mother had new husbands, new boyfriends.

Prabhupāda: Daily night. And he was shocked. One of my Gauḍīya Maṭha Godbrothers, big, he became the head of this Bhag Bazaar Gauḍīya Maṭha. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The purport is that in the Kali-yuga, the government men, they will be all rogues and thieves. So the citizens also follow them. Tan-nethe, śīlācārya. Śīlācārya is their behavior. The politicians, secretaries and big, big officers going to the brothels and drinking wine and enjoying, then what others will not? They will... Go on, second chapter.

Pradyumna:

tataś cānu-dinaṁ dharmaḥ
satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā
kālena balinā rājan
naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ

Prabhupāda: Note?

Pradyumna: Kali-dharmān prapañcayati-tataś cetyādinā.

Prabhupāda: That's all?

Pradyumna: Yes. He doesn't say.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Benefit will be then the whole thing will go in order. That is already described many times, that there must be brain, there must be arms, there must be belly, there must be legs for the complete composition of the body. If there is no brain, there is no head, then what is the use of these arms and legs and belly? It is all dead. So in the society, human society, if there is not a class of selected, truthful, honest, and so many brahminical qualifications, then society is ruined. Therefore they are perplexed. Everyone is a śūdra. Go to the factory. That's all. Go to the factory and bring money. And he is getting 25 dollars or 50 dollars daily and immediately purchasing wine and flat on Bowery Street. You'll produce such men, useless men, disturbing in the human society. You cannot make classless. If you make classless, naturally they will be all śūdras, fourth-class men. Then there will be society chaos.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Downtrodden, you keep them downtrodden. You manufacture wine and let them drink, and he will be uplifted. One side, (chuckles) you are manufacturing wine and advertising, "Come on, take here," and you remain, become harijana. How it is possible? You must stop all this nonsense, the slaughterhouse, the liquor shop or the breweries or the prostitute quarter. You stop this. But that cannot be also stopped. Anyone who wants to become harijana, he can become in spite of all these things. He can defend himself.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So should there be some effort?

Prabhupāda: What is that effort? Teach them Sanskrit?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, to make the harijanas respectable.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: With pilot. 747, you have to pay expert pilot, but here with pilot. Make this. Simply talking. Not only mosquito: at night we see so many, just like full stop, the same mechanical, flying from here, there, from here moving. Airplane, exactly in the form of... Similarly standing and... That is our challenge. Challenge this. Go in public meeting. Bring these so-called scientists, "Why don't you make any...? Why do you talk all this nonsense and cheat people?" Simple. Why first of all Sunday? There is no Monday first. I think never this question's raised, anybody. Fool's paradise. The Western world is fool's paradise. Actually this is the time they are getting enlightenment. Otherwise they are all fool's paradise. No social life, no religious life, simply get money somehow or other and enjoy wine, women, meat. That's all. This is their civilization. Do live comfortably; there is no harm. But why misconception?

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a fact that the material opulence is actually a hindrance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, vyavasāyātmikā buddhi... What is that? Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Their life will be spoiled. And when they are tired, give them sex, and wine, and meat, and gambling, they are satisfied. Again as soon as they get little energy, again begin another skyscraper. You got this human life for solving all the problem. He is not given the chance. He's engaged otherwise, his life is spoiled.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Very good, this is blissful nature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you can see the devotees pulling the float.

Bali-mardana: Read the caption in the middle.

Prabhupāda: And they have created a civilization, wine, woman, gambling and meat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's what it said. "The multicolored floats contrast with Fifth Avenue's concrete canyon as parade passes Thirty-fourth Street yesterday." Here it says, "An idyllic mood in saffron robes."

Prabhupāda: Everything is approved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, highly approved. Then there's another, New York Times.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not very(?) important.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: And if you do it very carefully, then you'll never get disease. Take simple food, neat and clean, you'll not get disease. So everything depends on eating to keep the health proper. But these things can be simplified when the life is simple. If I go to work in office at this time, then so many things become topsy-turvied. But if you depend on yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya, you haven't got to depend on others, then you can do timely. Now we have to go fifty miles at least to attend office. In your country at least, this is the system. They are coming from Long Island, Liberty Island. In New York I have seen. Three, four hours to go to work. And again three, four hours to come to home. And work there eight hours. Then what is value? He's shattered. He has no other solace than wine, and he has no other culture. No family, dog friend (laughter) and television idea, that's all. What his life? Every man has got a dog friend because he has no family. Men, women, and television, engagement, I have seen it, all this, in New York.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But I did not know. Mukunda suggested this is good place, all right, live here. And actually happened to be good place. Gradually, all my disciples came. So I had no disturbance. I was living in the Bowery Street, and on my door these bums were lying with urine and wine bottles and everything. Still, they were so respectful. When I'll come, "Yes, you can enter. Please." (laughter) I had no quarrel with them. They were very kind. They welcomed me, they opened the door, "Please go." They also knew that "He's a harmless..." So, platform, if you remain on the spiritual platform, this material condition cannot hamper you. Ahaituky apratihatā. Then yenātmā suprasīdati, in that condition you can execute. First of all, we have to ascertain on which platform we shall stand. And if you want to stand on the spiritual platform, nothing can check it. That is not conditioned. So why not stand directly to the spiritual platform and make you life successful?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, then do that. And we are inviting everyone. We have no distinction. Anyone can come to the park. Convince them. (continued on another tape) "Come on! Take prasādam "sumptuously." They'll be satisfied. They are hungry. Actually they are hungry, poorly paid, capitalist and worker. The trouble is, capitalists, they are taking all the profit, and they are enjoying life in wine and women. Naturally the worker will see that "Why? We are working so hard, and they are making profit, and they are enjoying, and we do not live in a very nice house. It is a slum." Naturally they will be envious. If the capitalists spend the money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness—in each and every factory they hold festivals and give them eatables like anything everything will be successful.

Gargamuni: We tell them that "If you give your Kṛṣṇa tax, this will save you from the income tax.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Maṇihāra: "...of varying degrees of education and from many walks of life, students, teachers, scientists, servicemen, laborers, and professionals—indeed numerous race, creeds and nationalities—are attached towards it. The unifying characteristics that brings such diverse individuals to Kṛṣṇa consciousness are high ethical standards and a sincere desire to understand spiritual truths. To make a pleasure-loving and easy-going Western youth to shed his fashionable dress and make him give up his dearly cherished beefsteaks, wine and women, cannabis and LSD, and don the saffron robe, shave his head, hold the daṇḍa, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is no mean achievement. That ISKCON has made thousands of Western youths perform this seemingly impossible task is an eloquent testimony of the impact it has made on the life of the contemporary West. ISKCON does offer to the modern man a haven of refuge from the complexity of anxiety of present-day life. The society has indeed set before itself a noble and laudable ideal..."

Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because he gets money. One who has got money but no children, he takes some adopted son. So the adopted son thinks that "I have got so much money," and he has never worked. He is spoiled. I have seen many adopted son, our... Got lakhs and lakhs of rupees, and in one night he's spoiled everything. Simply after woman and wine. I have seen it. There was one gentleman, Narendranath Singh. Very big, palatial building and very rich man. And I have seen him when he was finished. He was friend of big, big person, Raja Maharlel (?). And one day I saw in Calcutta, there was raining and he was sitting in a rickshaw. And no friend. He had known practically all big men of Calcutta friend. Nobody is coming. "Well Narendra, you are sitting. Come on in my car." Nobody. I was (indistinct). And he was drenching, there was heavy rain. And sitting a... And he was keeping Rolls Royce car.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they could understand that. That will be helpful if you chant. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement will never be false. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually the dirty things accumulated within the heart will be cleansed. And if he comes to the understanding, clear idea, that "I want to eat something and my necessities... So if I get my necessities, primary necessities of life, and satisfaction of mind, then why shall I go to city?" That they can have very easily. If they follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Your first necessity is food." So produce food here. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). And you'll find here so much land is lying vacant. Because they have gone to the city for twenty rupees daily to manufacture Goodyear tire. And who will work here? Now I have seen in Delhi, the government is advertising, "Go back to the village." Rascal, you are manufacturing wine and keeping them engaged whole day in the work. So after being tired, he requires some wine. And why he'll go? And no spiritual education, no cleanliness. Simply inviting "Go to the village" they will go?

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are villagers.

Lokanātha: They're chanting and they're so happy and they're going back to village.

Prabhupāda: Very good life. Very good life. The village life. Provided he has got proper engagement. Otherwise his mind will be disturbed, and he'll seek after wine, after women, after this, after that. Devil's workshop.

Caraṇāravindam: Because there's no sacrifice, because people aren't performing sacrifices now, is it more difficult to live off the land? It is more difficult to grow vegetables in Kali-yuga where there's no sacrifice?

Prabhupāda: What is that sacrifice?

Caraṇāravindam: Chanting. Chanting the holy name. Doesn't that make it more difficult to live? The weather's, everything's so disturbed?

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Bechel (?). So we want so many men to live there nicely, to eat sumptuously, and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have seen while coming from Vṛndāvana to Delhi, hundreds and thousands of young men. They are going to the factories on cycle, coming from distant place, at least twenty miles, twenty-five miles, and it takes two hours to reach the factory or more than that. And there he works hard eight hours and then again goes back, two hours, three hours, on cycle. I do not know what kind of rest he takes. This is life. And if we request these young men that "You come here. You live here comfortably. You eat here sumptuously and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will not. Just see how unfortunate they are. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. All bad men, unfortunate and disturbed. This is the position. They will work so hard, they'll catch daily passenger trains, Calcutta, Bombay, I have seen. They are actually hanging, and some of them are falling down, lost life, and coming from hundred miles away. But still, if you ask him that "You come here. Live with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Even with your family you can come." We are doing that at Māyāpura. He will not. How strong sense gratification propensity is. This is position of Kali-yuga. They are making propaganda, ruṭi kāpar mākhan. So we are giving, "Come on, ruṭi, mākhan, kāpar, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." "No. I want wine. I want meat. I want rundi (?)." This is going on. Simply they say, "Ruṭi, kāpar, mākhan." But no, they want wine, woman, and sense pleasure, that's all. Ruṭi, kāpar, mākhan is not difficult. You can get. But they want something more. You see how many advertisements for selling wine in your Hyderabad. Is that, ruṭi, kāpar, mākhan?

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Vāsughoṣa: Even the poorest of men. Just like before, when this temple wasn't here and we were chopping away at the rocks in the foundation, we were paying twenty rupees a day for those men. And we were told that ten rupees every day would go for wine for those same men. Ten rupees out of the twenty they would immediately spend to drink. Even poor people. So many of them.

Prabhupāda: And because we are trying to stop this thing in Europe and America there is agitation that "These people are propagating brainwash. How is that a man who will not eat, drink? This is brainwash." They spend ten rupees out of twenty rupees. Eh?

Vāsughoṣa: Yes, we were told like that, that they would take their twenty rupees pay and then they would go and spend ten rupees and on alcohol, drinking, toddy. (break) I was in... Last time at the festival in Māyāpura I was riding from Māyāpura to Calcutta. And so one man was saying that "Oh, fish, 80 paisa a kg. How much are potatoes?" I asked. So even their hard-earned money, so much more they spend just to eat meat, to enjoy their senses. It doesn't make sense in any way.

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. People have lost the program. These rascals they draw all these men to manufacture Goodyear tire and eat store (?). This is going on. Modern man, they draw all these man, "Come on, I shall pay you 20 rupees daily. Prepare Goodyear tire, and eat store. Take paper. Purchase store. That's all. This is going on. What brain they will have? Twenty rupees they get and they spend ten rupees for wine, and five rupees for cigarette, and fooding, say five rupees. No ghee, no milk. Soul killing civilization. And again this soul killing civilization. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Hm, what you wanted to say?

Devotee: This, your Dr. Ghosh, where he is staying...

Prabhupāda: Mm.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, tea sets(?) committee. All the tea gardeners, all, they were mostly Britishers. They paid money for maintaining a department, tea sets(?) committee, and their only business was to make propaganda village to village how tea becomes popular. Similarly, drinking, meat-eating... And it became a fashion among the richer class to keep prostitutes, go to the garden weekend with prostitutes and wine, freely use them, intoxicated. It was a prestigious position to keep a prostitute. A rich man having a garden and one prostitute, they were... Anything in demand... I have seen it. Now I think, "How things are going on, that...?" You have seen that Mullik's house?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Thakur Mullik, Rādhārāṇī. So in their festival some dancing girl would come, vaibi.(?) That was aristocratic, to call a prostitute and dance. So at that time we were children, five, six, seven years old. So persons who were of our father's age, they would sit down round the prostitute exactly like the street dogs surround one female dog, exactly. They had no shame even. This was aristocratic. And talking all nonsense, and if the prostitute smiles, they become very much obliged. She is (laughter) smiling.

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how people become interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other motive. No economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat, and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They are foolish rascal. There is no education for them. Still, if we try, many men will be saved. So write very elaborately how to do this. Increase.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not the fact.

Trivikrama: Out of poverty, then they'll think about wine and women.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But that is in America, not...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: They have nothing to eat. You have seen the people living worse than the pigs.

Trivikrama: We have seen in Japan. Now they are...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Here also, all these politicians, they are after woman, meat and money. That's all.

Trivikrama: Intoxication.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Faith. Yes. Faith means firm faith. Faith does not mean... Anyway, ādau śraddhā. This śraddhā, if we increase this śraddhā, you have to associate with sādhu.. And who is sādhu? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva samantavyaḥ. He is sādhu, who is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. He is sādhu. Api cet sudurācāraḥ: "Even though you find there is some discrepancies in his character, because he is fully engaged in My service, he is sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ samyag vyavasito hi saḥ (BG 9.30). If he has got other engagement, he is not sādhu. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) "Other engagement zero." That is sādhu. The sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). You have to associate with such sādhus who are cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ tato bhajana-kriyā. If you mix with the sādhu, then you'll learn the activities. Sādhu-mārgānugamanam. The sādhus are rising early in the morning; they are attending maṅgala ārati, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then dressing the Deity and having ārati and so on, so on, so on. This is called bhajana-kriyā. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt: then all these material activities will stop. Because if you are engaged in spiritual act..., where is your time for material activities, for drinking wine and eating meat and going to the restaurant and...? No time. These boys, although they are trained up from childhood how to eat meat, how to drink, but now they have no time.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is Kali-yuga.

dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra
dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā duḥkha lāge haspar(?)

Tulasī dāsa has said, "In the Kali-yuga, dudha, milk—no customer. And surā, wine-baitale vikāra.(?) It is sitting down in one place, and customers are going there: "Give me. Give me one after another, one after..." Surā, wine, is so impure that it should not be touched. That is selling in one place very comfortably. Dudha? Gali gali phire: "Will you take milk? Will you take milk?" Dudha gali gali phire surā baitale vikāra, dhanya kali-yuga teri līlā. Kali-yuga dhanya tomāra.(?) "Your pastime..." Duḥkha lāge haspar, "I am very sorry, but at the same time, I am laughing." (laughs) "Although I am very sorry, but still, I am laughing." This is Kali-yuga.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, what can be done?

Hari-śauri: And because it wasn't always easy to get good water, there's a very cheap kind of wine. It's not actually very alcoholic. It's very, very cheap. Then they used to drink that because there's no good water.

Prabhupāda: That is not plea that we shall drink bottle after bottle.

Hari-śauri: Yes. (laughs) Catholic priests, they have a big stock in their cabinets, so much wine.

Prabhupāda: If they want to be reformed, we can reform them. On the basis of Bible, we can reform them. There is no difficulty.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But we... Based on philosophy. You cannot go beyond the philosophy. Philosophy must be there. It cannot be changed. But we have to... You cannot change the wine. That should be the... So therefore, while changing, you can consult.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That will be...

Rāmeśvara: Now, there has been a tendency that I have observed among the writers to try to use what they call outside information sources, like quoting scientists...

Prabhupāda: That, one cannot do it unless he is very expert in transcendental knowledge. This is not possible for kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.

Rāmeśvara: It's difficult to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He must be very expert. Therefore I want...

Rāmeśvara: Satsvarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Guidance.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Bandara or Khar(?).

Prabhupāda: So contact him. If he's sincere, let him cooperate with us. We'll make everything nice. And if they want to eat hog's flesh and wine, at the same time become harijana, (laughs) that is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's certain stipulations to our taking responsibility for the one hundred million harijanas.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We can take them. Why one hundred million? Whole universe we can take. It is Kṛṣṇa ... Method is simple: you have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. Where is the difficulty? Why one hundred million? All, whole universe we can take, provided they are prepared. Our business is not difficult. What Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said we have to execute and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. What I am doing? These two things are. Not at all. But these rascal will not take. They will manufacture their own way of life. That is the... That is dog's obstinacy. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Don't become hog and dog here." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām. The difficulty is that you can preach nice thing, but they will not accept.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are thinking simply by lungs and karatala, kīrtana will go on. Anything we do here, there is no material connection. It is spiritual. We are not talking for how to increase our business and enjoy women and wine. That is not our business. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). We are trying to establish Kṛṣṇa. Uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. And that is kīrtana. (pause) Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). Hm? You know this?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just explain this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other day, when I went from Delhi to Calcutta in the plane, I happened to see that Dr. Chatterjee from Calcutta University. She's a lady, woman, but she's very well known. International scientist she has become. Her name is Asina Chatterjee.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That personality of Kali... When Sudāmā Mahārāja was dramatizing, very appropriate. Kali is Sin. Wine, women, intoxication, illicit sex, gambling, LSD. Then Sin said, "Now we will eat our own children."

Prabhupāda: When he said, what the audience thinks?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the audience, they laugh, and yet the laughing is a little... They swallow their laughing. In one sense it's funny; in the other sense they know it is very true, and they feel it. Actually it would be difficult to say such strong thing, but because it is an in a formal theater, the audience sits there respectfully, taking it all.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This idea, that "My son should be B.A., M.A., Ph.D.," it is wrong idea. Why? What is there, Ph.D.'s? First of all one must earn. Self-preservation is the first law of... But not... The Marwaris used to do that in Calcutta. Many pakorā. No business—he was frying pakorā and selling. Why unemployment? This is disastrous, unemployment. As soon as there is unemployment, there are so many devils. They'll plan. And the first plan will come-wine and woman. So we want to save the society from this downfall. At least keep one ideal. And that is our mission. Otherwise there was no nece... But at the present moment they cannot take so much trouble. We are trying to give them as much as possible comfortable life, but become an ideal vidvān and bhaktimān. That is required. Otherwise it is animal society. Prime Minister's son is a debauch, rogue, thief. They are not ashamed even. And people are adoring him: "O Sanjay, you are Indira Gandhi's son. I take your blessing." Doing practically. He was very much anxious to see Sanjay Gandhi. So what did I say?

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nowadays among the gentlemen, the chicken and cake(?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And?

Prabhupāda: Wine cake(?). If you don't receive your friend with chicken and wine cake, then that reception is not good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means they're very much degraded nowadays.

Prabhupāda: The Sikhs, they invariably eat. The Marathis, low class, invariably eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the South Indians?

Prabhupāda: South Indians, low class, they eat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Christians.

Prabhupāda: Chicken is very cheap food. You haven't got to maintain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they find anything to eat on the ground.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they produce egg.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Big, big chicken within very short time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big business. And unfortunately with beef also.

Prabhupāda: That is their staple food, chicken and beef and wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think in Vṛndāvana there's so much of this meat-eating.

Prabhupāda: No. Here they eat meat very secretive, some.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very secretive?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Openly they'll never.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's hard to even find a butcher shop here.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. In Mathurā there is slaughterhouse.

Page Title:Wine (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:29 of Sep, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=141, Let=0
No. of Quotes:141