Expressions researched:
"whole material universe"
|"whole universe"
|"whole universes"
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, the Kali is not transcendental. Kali is material.
Hayagrīva: Yes. The earth, the whole world is affected, so it's not just one section.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only earth, this earth. It is whole universe.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So next scene is rāsa dance. Rāsa dance means Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī in the center, and the gopīs, they are surrounding. You have seen that surrounding scene they were dancing the other day in the park, hand to hand.
Hayagrīva: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Māyā is always striking. Why do you take only a window? Why do you compact māyā in the window? He is without window, within the window. Māyā is not only, I mean to say, limited to a certain extent. The whole world is māyā. Jagan mithyā. The whole universe is māyā. Only that part is not māyā where the chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is there.
Devotees: Haribol. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: As soon as there was some slacking in Hare Kṛṣṇa the māyā struck. (laughs) Yes. Yes.
Govinda dāsī: Swamiji?
Guest (1): No, that is true, but...
Prabhupāda: That is true, but you do not know how.
Guest (1): No, you see, our... Even your... Even your way of thinking and your purpose is that Lord Kṛṣṇa should be Lord of the whole universe, so...,
Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord Kṛṣṇa is lord, universe.
Guest (1): Universe?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): So that is what you want to talk with me.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): In that case, you will have to satisfy everybody.
Prabhupāda: Actually there is no darkness. Take it sunlight, it is whole. There is no darkness and everything is in sunshine, all the planets, they are rotating in sunshine. So under certain conditions one part is becoming dark, another part is light. But actually the whole universe is full with sunshine. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is the exact definition given in Sanskrit. Everything is light, brahma.
Mensa Member: That's another postulate.
Dr. Weir: You can build any theory according to the number of postulates you're willing to accept which cannot be analyzed, including the basis of science, the atom, as originally thought of by Theocritus and others is the thing that you cannot go beyond and count down farther in playing with your philosophy or your theology that you go down until you can find nothing, except that you say that causa causam and then you build back again from that.
Prabhupāda: Then the wings fly there, and the jaws catch the food, and after all he puts into the mouth. Similarly, as in this body, this particular example, the stomach is the enjoyer, similarly, the central figure of whole cosmic manifestation, material or spiritual, the central figure is Kṛṣṇa, God. He's the enjoyer. We can understand. As in my this particular body, the body is also a creation. The body has got the same mechanism as you will find out in the whole universe. The same mechanical, anywhere you go, you find even in animals or human body or in the cosmic manifestation. Almost the same mechanism. So as you understand very easily that in this body, my body, your body, the stomach is the enjoyer. Or there is a central enjoyer. And the stomach is friend also of everyone. Because if we cannot digest food, you see, then all other limbs of the body they become weak.
Prabhupāda: Nature, they cannot even challenging nature; they cannot understand the nature. And behind nature, there is God. So what they will understand God? They cannot understand the curtain by which God is hidden, and what they will understand God? This is a curtain. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya
yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Just like this planet, this universe, everything is resting on Him, but He cannot be found. Just like if you sit down on this chair, on this bench, I can see the bench you are sitting. But this whole universe is floating on something, but you cannot see on which it is floating. You are so limited. This universe is floating on water, just like (indistinct). Yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-nidrām anantam aśeṣa-bhūtam, viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣo govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.47). Each and every universe is coming out of the pores in the body of Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ten times bigger than each layer, it increases?
Prabhupāda: That one layer, the other layer is ten times bigger than the first layer, and the third are ten times bigger than that, ten times. In this way the whole universe is covered. What your scientists know? (laughs)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists say that there are different layers in the atmosphere. There is ionosphere and all those spheres.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, some ideas are there. But in Bhāgavata it is all written.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they do not say that ten times.
Prabhupāda: What do they know? They do not know anything. Know something. (pause)
Prabhupāda: It is done. Just like sometimes I think that I came here alone without any expectation of success, and this movement has become so nice. Actually, by one man's effort it was not possible. But it has become so. This is acintya-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's, inconceivable. Even a modern businessman, he cannot organize such a worldwide organization in such short a time. We have talked with many businessmen in India. Some said, "We have got thirty branches," somebody says, "We have got forty," another twenty branches. Our students say "My Guru Mahārāja has 102 branches." So they say, "No, we cannot compare with your Guru Mahārāja." So this is acintya-śakti. You can see so many things, the acintya-śakti is working. So unless we accept acintya-śakti of God, it is not possible to understand what is God. Inconceivable potency. And that is actually a fact. We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. We have to understand that this whole universe... Just like Arjuna saw the virāḍ-rūpa, universal form. So this whole universe is the form of the Lord. So if in my body there are so many chemicals, enzymes, and other things, so how much there must be, proportionately?
Krishna Tiwari: No, that is not the point. Point is that..., point is how to, how long this earth where we all live... Now we're talking about only this earth. How long this earth, we know, existed?
Prabhupāda: I'm not talking of the earth. I'm talking of the whole universe.
Krishna Tiwari: Right. Well, we'll talk about one object first, before we talk about universe next. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: That means you are not in the knowledge.
Krishna Tiwari: No. But some of you, I mean, you want to talk about something, you want to start from something which is easy to comprehend and go further. How is it...
Prabhupāda: Now, the whole universe is one unit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. To glorify God means the glorify the nature also. Just like here is a poem in Brahma-saṁ...
Now, the whole creation is there. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). On account of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, which is called brahmajyoti... Just like on account of the sunshine, the whole universe is existing. So similarly, there is a shine, bodily shining, what is called brahmajyoti. So when the brahmajyoti is there, then innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). When the effulgence, brahmajyoti, is there, innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe. Koṭi, innumerable. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭisv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). And in each universe is created with innumerable number of planets. And each planet has got different atmosphere. Now the whole universe is described. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.
Prabhupāda: So to remain dependent on God is our healthy state. As soon as we declare independent of God, that is our unhealthy state. This is our philosophy. And your philosophy also. To remain there. That is the Vedic injunction, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference between God and ourself? God is also a living entity like us, but He's the chief living entity. He's maintaining all others. Therefore we have to ask God, "Give us our daily bread." He's the maintainer; we are maintained. Just like in a family, the father is the maintainer, and the mother and the children and the servants, they are maintained, similarly the whole universe, whole creation, it is maintained by God, and we living entities, within this universe or within this creation, we are maintained. So as we are maintained, it is better to remain dependent on God than to declare our freedom.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is quite reasonable. When... (break)
Prabhupāda: Everything... In this table, whatever is there, it is created. The table is created. The light is created. Everything is created by somebody. So how I can deny this fact, that somebody has created the whole universe? If you say, "It has comes automatically, dropped," that is rascaldom. It must be accepted somebody has created. So who is that somebody? You have not created. The Americans have not created, the Englishmen have not created, or I have created, you have created, but we can understand that somebody has created. So who will be the proprietor? I shall be proprietor or the creator shall be proprietor? Who shall be the proprietor?
Dr. Inger: Creator. Of course.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes. That is natural. Only the strong devotees, they don't like. "No, I don't want to see anything. I want to go immediately to Kṛṣṇa." That is strong devotion. Because they are after, mad after seeing Kṛṣṇa. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. For them, the whole universe is vacant for want of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you love somebody, if he's not seen, you see, in spite of so many cars, you see the whole city of Paris, void, void. You don't give you any pleasure. A strong love for Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam means everything vacant. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant. What is the value of this house or this city? He doesn't take. So higher planetary system means better standard of life. Just like if Indian comes here, materially, they see the higher standard of life in Paris, in London. But because we are interested in Kṛṣṇa, we do not take very much care of this higher standard of life.
Prabhupāda: He's the controller of the whole universe. He also bowing down before little Kṛṣṇa. "Sir, I wanted to show You my superior power, but I am insignificant before You." Brahmā stole away all His calves and cows and cowherd boys, and he saw again the same calves and cows and boys are playing with Him. So he became surprised: "How is that? I took away, and again He's keeping. He has expanded himself." You have read that portion? So God is called self-sufficient because He can expand Himself to satisfy His needs, whatever He wants. So He doesn't require anyone's help. He's completely independent. But still He's so kind that He comes to your temple, as He has come today, and He's dependent. If you give Him some foodstuff, He'll eat. Otherwise, He'll starve. So we should always remember the most powerful, self-sufficient has come kindly at my place, just to become dependent on my foodstuff. This is His kindness.
Prabhupāda: No. The soul is a living being. So nature is supplying material and he's molding in different forms. Just like earth is not man's creation. Earth is God's creation, or it is product of God's energy. But we are using this earth and molding in different forms, different pots, different dolls. So ingredients are supplied by God. Nature means God's energy. We simply handle them. We cannot produce anything, we transform only. Just like this iron, we cannot produce iron. It is gotten from the mine, iron bar. Now we have transformed into different forms. Because we have got creative energy like God, not very great, in very minute quantity. So as God has created by His intelligence, the whole universe—we are creating this table, this pillow, this harmonium—that's all. What you are finding?
Prabhupāda: But the mistake is continuing forever, because you'll find the varieties of living entities ever-existing. Therefore the mistake is permanent. So when it is permanent, it is not mistake. It is intelligence.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say if there is no mistake, there will be only one living entity in the whole universe.
Prabhupāda: Why? Because you have got different mind, therefore you create different situation. Just like we are walking here. Not that everyone is coming to join us. Because they have got different mentality. They want to sleep. We want to rise early in the morning. Why this difference?
Śrutaśrava: It is a great mistake they're making.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a point of realization. But the first preamble is that there must be God, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary it is stated, Supreme Being. So as in every department, everywhere, there is a supreme controller. Same example. The president is the supreme controller of this state. United States. In another state, in India also, the president is the supreme controller. Similarly, taking the whole universe or many such millions of universes taken together, there must be a Supreme Being. Otherwise how things are going on, nicely? (break) This is our first point.
Devotee: The scientists say that everything had its origin with a big bang. All of a sudden one day there was a big bang and everything came into being.
Prabhupāda: What is that big bang. You do not know. It is your suggestion. Big bang means big brain or what? Big bang? What is that, a big bang?
Guest (1): Mahārāja is teaching—you asked his teaching—these things are the same really, I, things that he's told me. But he said that the whole universe was God, and that you should never hurt anyone, that you should serve...
Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?
Guest (1): I beg your pardon.
Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?
Guest (1): How can you serve the whole universe?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (1): Whatever, whatever...
Prabhupāda: That is... Suppose you love me. You love the whole universe? Why this false impression?
Guest (1): Well certainly every being in the universe is a part of me.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct). You can place your love to a particular person or particular community.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean you love the whole universe?
Prabhupāda: Why?
Guest (1): Through ignorance. Men...
Prabhupāda: Then how you love the whole universe, if you are in ignorance?
Guest (1): You do your best.
Prabhupāda: If you are ignorant, you do not know how to love.
Guest (1): That's true, of course. Ignorance is...
Prabhupāda: Then how do you speak of universal love? When you do not know how to love, how do you speak universe, big, big word. You do not know the art of love, and you are speaking universal love.
Guru dāsa: Well which is first?
Guest (1): Which is first? Which, ignorance or what?
Guru dāsa: Does Kṛṣṇa make us in ignorance?
Guest (1): Well, He creates the whole universe and everything in it.
Guru dāsa: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda maybe you can explain that.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guru dāsa: Does Kṛṣṇa makes us ignorant or are we ignorant?
Prabhupāda: We are.
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Guest (1): We are.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But our, our position is that we are above varṇāśrama. But for management or ideal society, we are introducing this. We, so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we are above varṇāśrama. But to show the people that we are not escaping, we can take part in any order of life. That is our position. Just like if I brush somebody's shoes, that does not mean I am shoemaker. My position is the same. But to show how to do it... Just like a servant is doing. The master is, "Oh, you cannot do. Just see." Just like I show you sometimes how to mop. So I am not a mopper, but I am showing how to mop. So our position is like that. We do not belong to any varṇa and āśrama. But we have to show these rascals. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He, he was perfect Vaiṣṇava, but when he was king, he was fighting like anything. Not that, "Oh, I am now become Vaiṣṇava. I cannot kill." What is this? He killed like anything. When the Yakṣas attacked his kingdom, he was killing like anything then the Yakṣa-rāja came and asked him to pardon this. He immediately accepted. So he wanted to give him some benediction, that "You are so great that simply on my request, you have stopped killing these rascals, Yakṣas. So you can take some benediction from me." He said, "That's all right. Thank you. You give me the benediction that I may be a pure lover of Kṛṣṇa. That's all." This benediction he asked. Although he was so powerful and, the Yakṣa-rāja, he could give him the wealth of the whole universe.
Dr. Patel: But you see, this is not like this, that those fools... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is also another mūḍha, but supposing if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am controlling the whole universe." The mūḍha will not believe it. "Huh? How is that? How...? Such a big gigantic prakṛti, and He is a person. He can control?" The mūḍha cannot understand. He cannot understand that how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know what is the all-omniscient nature of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: The spiritual power of Kṛṣṇa. No. Paraṁ bhāva? Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12).
Prabhupāda: Just like mother Yaśodā saw within the mouth of Kṛṣṇa the whole universe.
Dr. Patel:
Prabhupāda: Ah. "Because you are not accustomed to see this virāṭ form, therefore I give you special vision to see it."
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The example is that this body, there is a living force within the body which is causing it to move and to work, and that living force is the soul. And when the soul leaves this body, then the body is no longer moving and eating and talking and hearing and seeing. So in the same way in this universe there is a greater spiritual person, and His body, in a sense, is this whole universe, and it is moving on the same principle because He is the supreme consciousness.
Deshimaru: But what do you know about the soul leaving the body? Maybe when the body leaves the soul, the soul also dies.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The point is that body and soul are two things.
Deshimaru: I think it is same thing.
Prabhupāda: You think, but how you can prove?
Prabhupāda: Now first of all, let us understand what is God. Then prayer. If you do not understand God, then what you'll prayer? If we understand that there is the active principle, then the prayer we have already described, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś cārtheṣu abhijñaḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead Vāsudeva who is the origin of all creation." This is the active principle. There is. So... And how He is working? (To Jyotirmayī:) You have to explain. (French) In the beginning of Bhāgavatam, I offering the prayer. So the process is that I offer my all respect to the Absolute Truth, Supreme Truth, from whom the creation has taken place, everything is resting, working nicely, and after annihilation, it will go there. And when you study what is the nature of the original source, it is said, abhijñaḥ, cognizant. He knows everything. Just like I am the owner of this body, I, the soul, but still, I do not know how the body is working. I am eating, but I do not know how my eatables transformed into secretion, then goes to the heart, then... Of course, they have discovered something, but not fully. So I do not know what is going in within my body. I do not know how many hairs are there. But God knows everything, nook and corner of the whole universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have got good brain. Instead of utilizing the brain to know what is the active principles of this whole universe, if we utilize that brain for manufacturing a watch, that is not very good proposal. You manufacture watch, but at the same time, you try to study the active principle, who is the watchmaker. I am seeing the watch with the eyes, but as soon as the active principle is gone, no more seeing. Where is that science? A watchmaker is making, screw-driving, and doing so many things. All of a sudden his heart fails. No more watch. What is that active principle? Where is that science? That is my proposition?
Prabhupāda: They do not know except this thing, anyone. Anyone. They have no other desire. That without sex life there can be higher transcendental, eternal pleasure, they do not know it. Whole world, whole universe, whole material creation is centered around that. It is the pivot. That I have already explained. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). That is there. They do not know anything else.
Brahmānanda: That was one of your first instructions to me when I came to see you. I was telling you about a professor, one of my professors who saw that all literature, all culture, all poetry, everything was simply motivated by sex life, and you said that he was right. I thought he was wrong, but you said no, he was right, and you explained about the same point.
Hṛdayānanda: ...the movement who previously had been expert in mathematics, how could he use that for Kṛṣṇa's service if he's expert in mathematics?
Prabhupāda: Mathematics? So you can calculate, "After so many years the whole universe will be destroyed." (laughter) Not of the universe but everyone's life. This body will be destroyed. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). And again you get another body. It will stay for so many years. Again you annihilate. Again you get. In this way eternal time is being wasted.
Hṛdayānanda: In the modern world the engineers are designing everything. So how can an engineer use his talent for Kṛṣṇa?
Guest (1): That is the point of a steady state theory of the universe also, that it... Arthur Hubble, I think, in Oxford. He talks about a steady state theory of the universe. But the whole idea is that the whole universe has always been there, and it will always be there. It might change in shape, like on the expressway in the morning. Any one morning you may look at it, blue car is here and the red car is there and another day the green car might be in the same place. So there might be transitory change, but he maintains that it has always been there. So I can see the point. There is a big controversy going on, and he might be very well right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's talking from a physical concept.
Guest (1): The big bang theory and the steady state theory of the universe. And they have come up with a cyclical theory of the universe also, that there is a big bang and the universe expands and then comes back again, like in Vedic philosophy, they have one mantra...
Prabhupāda: Hm, bṛhattvād bṛhannatvād iti brahma.
Prabhupāda: So do that. Don't approach the cheater guru, bluffer guru, and be cheated. Stop this business. This has spoiled the whole spiritual atmosphere of the world. Take guru, the supreme guru, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when in Mahābhārata when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira performed rājasūya yajña, in the rājasūya yajña one person is elected the chief guest. So in that yajña many big, big demigods were present, and Bhīṣmadeva was present, Vyāsadeva was present, and many, many other saintly person, brāhmaṇa, from the whole universe were present. And Kṛṣṇa was decided to be accepted as the... Everyone agreed to accept Him as the chief guest. And the Śiśupāla, he protested. Then everyone was angry to kill him. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the guru by everyone. By our ācāryas, recent ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... I am not speaking of the loafer class, but those who are recognized ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya... They accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru.
Yoga student: It's the prominent form in this material world.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In this earth, in this planet, earth is the prominent of the five elements.
Prabhupāda: Whole world, whole universe, they are made of these five elements.
Atreya Ṛṣi: All the creation, the material creation, is made of five elements.
Yoga student: What is the fifth besides earth, air, fire and water?
Prabhupāda: Ether.
Yoga student: Ether. How does ether distinguish...
Prabhupāda: The sky. Ether is... Presence of ether by sound.
Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol.
Guest: On this planet.
Devotee: ...earth is prominent amongst the five elements.
Prabhupāda: Whole world, whole universe, they are made of these five elements.
Devotee: (indistinct) of the five elements.
Guest: What is the fifth besides earth, air, fire and water?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: What is the fifth element after earth, air, fire and water?
Prabhupāda: Ether.
Guest: Ether. How does ether distinguish...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you manufacture your program of enjoyment, then you will be slapped. And if you enjoy according to the direction of the father, then you'll enjoy. This is the... Kṛṣṇa says, "Enjoy life. All right. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. Live peacefully. Always think of Me. Worship Me." That we have prescribed. Come here and think of Kṛṣṇa. And so that is enjoyment. So they don't want. They want liquor. They want illicit sex. They want meat. So therefore they must be slapped. Actually all this whole universe is made for your enjoyment, but enjoy it according to His direction. Then you will enjoy. That is the difference between demigod and demon. The demon wants to enjoy, manufacturing his own way of life. And the demigod, they enjoy better than the demons because under the direction of God.
Paramahaṁsa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then why does he say?
Paramahaṁsa: But this whole universe—we cannot compare the whole universe with any machine created by man.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Why you bring man? This machine is created and being operated by God.
Paramahaṁsa: Well, we don't have any experience of such a machine.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What do you mean by machine. First of all define what is your idea of machine. Just like the other day we saw, we saw the Thompson place, being printed, being collected, and so many things are being done. It is like this. By machine the seasonal changes are going on, the sun is rising, the moon is rising, the water in the ocean, the waves are there. Everything, machine working. It is machine. Everything being systematically done. Such a big ocean, vast water, it is just on the brink, no more. It is so organized. The sun is rising exactly in time, astronomically. The astronomical watch is one ten-thousandth part of a second. It is so accurate. You'll find everything is going on. (break) Today is ekādaśī, eleventh day of the moon, the moon shall be like this. There one can see the moon and he can calculate. "Today is ekādaśī." This is not machine? It is exactly, machine.
Prabhupāda: And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody. How much complete He is? You can just imagine. That is God. God is not such a cheap thing. People become God, "I am God." You are a nonsense rascal. What you can do? These are bluff. They do not know what is God. Here is God—complete. Pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam idaṁ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). The whole creation is complete, still He is complete. The energy is coming from here, still He is complete. This energy also. A glass of water, I throw the glass, and water again is coming. Again I throw, again it is coming. Incessantly coming, all the energies. This is the idea of God. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation), pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. One minus one equals one, not zero. One plus one equals one, not two. This is complete. This is the idea of God. Just like the ocean. You take many thousands of buckets of water out, still it is complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: 93,000,000? It says in the Bhāgavatam exactly what the distance?
Prabhupāda: The whole universe, diameter, is pañcaśat-koṭi-yojana. One yojana equal to eight miles, and one koti is ten miles, er, ten million. So pañcaśata, fifty into 10,000,000 into eight.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. So it's fifty crores yojana. Fifty crores yojanas?
Prabhupāda: Yes, fifty crore yojanas, pañcaśat. So one yojana equal to eight miles, one crore equal to ten million.
Paramahaṁsa: That's eighty million.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: When Gandhi was fired to death, he could not make a solution. And they were leaders for solution. What they can do? Every one of them is under strict laws of nature. As nature will do, they will have to submit. And what they will make? They are not independent. Nobody knows where is Hitler. Such a big man, he hid or he killed himself, something done, but nobody knows. And one day he become the master of the whole universe. This is going on.
Amogha: But maybe by our study... We are all imperfect, but if we keep compiling the information, then after so many years they will have all the information...
Prabhupāda: They... You do not take the right information. Right information is with us. That you refuse to take. Your information is zero. Compiling of zeros does not make any value. It is all zero. Take information from us. Then it will be beneficial. You are taking information from all universe except our this solid information given by Kṛṣṇa. That is your policy. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. You have read this verse? "The mūḍha, rascal, he does not know the ultimate background is I am." That he does not know. What is the use of his information? And in the Vedas it is said yam eva viditvā sarvam idam... There is a mantra, that "Only understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything." Yam eva viditvā sarvam idaṁ vedituṁ bhavanti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They might have gone to some hellish planet, where there is only sand, only, and very hot, and the culprit is pushed through that deserted place to the Yamarāja. And before going to Yamarāja he has to suffer so much. There are places, copperlike, you see. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So hot, and the criminal has to go on that copper land. There are mentioned for many millions of miles simply copper, and one has to pass through that to Yamarāja. So, they might have gone to some such place, not to the moon planet, who is the source of vegetation even throughout the whole universe—and in his own planet there is no vegetation. Now I am sure they have not gone to moon planet. How they will go? It is beyond the sun. I was protesting that they have not gone; now I am convinced that they have not gone. The Russian scientists and the American scientists joined on the platform, "Don't expose me, I don't expose you."
Prabhupāda: You are taking of country, but the śāstra takes of the planets, not of the country. Your idea is very crippled: country, national. But śāstra is not... There is no such thing as national. They take the whole universe as a whole. They consider from that angle of vision. These crippled ideas, "state," "national," has come later on. There was no such thing previously. One planet or universe, like that. Just like last night the girl was astonished that "How this planet can be governed by one king?" It was being actually done. And the whole universe is being governed by Brahmā, one person. So one must know how to govern.
Devotee (1): We can see, Śrīla Prabhupāda, by the distribution of wealth and minerals in each loka, in each planet, it is meant to be governed by one ruler. One place there is gold, one place grain to grow. Is this true?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And at the end there will be no rain. Then this whole planet will be ablaze with fire. That is the beginning of destruction. Everything will die—all trees, plants, animals, everything. It will be made into ashes by the fire. And then there will be rain, and the ashes will be melted, and the whole universe will be finished.
Devotee (2): I read too, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that in the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was only rainfall in the nighttime. Is this true?
Prabhupāda: Night time?
Devotee (2): Rain would fall in the nighttime so that...
Prabhupāda: No. Who said that nighttime?
Prabhupāda: No, everywhere the same process. Everywhere there are living entities in different forms.
Śrut akī rti: The 8,400,000 species is for the whole universe or for each planet?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. No, whole universe.
Devotee: So not all of those species are on this planet.
Prabhupāda: No, all of them are there.
Devotee: On this planet.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm, not come very near. Yes?
Devotee (1): It's talking about that Arjuna saw the universal form, all these universes and all that. So does that mean like you were talking that one can't become a universal being, but he can see the whole universe. Can you explain how that is?
Prabhupāda: How is that? You can see the universe; that does not mean that you can become universe. You can see the sky; that does not mean you become as big as sky. (break) ...small, minute shining sparks, minute combination. So they are also shining, but that does not mean they can become as good, as big, as the sun. (break) ...the defect of the Māyāvāda philosophy. They think of themselves too much. Therefore they remain here, always in māyā. (break) ...abuddhayaḥ, means the intelligence is not purified. They are called aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ or viśuddha (SB 10.2.32), "without purification of knowledge." (break) ...kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ anādṛta-yuṣmād-aṅghrayaḥ. They fall down. (break) ...this symbol?
Prabhupāda: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe, conclusion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. (break) ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating?
Reporter (3): Is that the significance, then, of the festival, to remind people of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. This is the significance. Jagannātha. Jagannātha. Jagat means the whole universe, and natha means the lord or the proprietor.
Reporter (3): What is the purpose of the large carts and other things you use?
Prabhupāda: Large car mean God is very great, He requires very great car. (laughter) Why should He go in a small car? (laughter)
Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one question. They would like to know why is it that the children are separated from their parents and sent to Gurukula?
Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of remaining with the parents to become hippies? For training. We are trying to train first-class men.
Prabhupāda: ...they require so many scientist to get heat from the nuclear system, then who has created the sun to diffuse so much heat? How great scientist He is. They have no sense that who has created the sun's nuclear system, that heating the whole universe.
Bahulāśva: They can't even measure how much heat is coming from the sun.
Jayatīrtha: They say that the sun is inefficient because in some places it's too hot and in some places it's too cold, so therefore they have to make the adjustment by making the air conditioners and the heaters in order to make up for the sun's inefficiency.
Prabhupāda: But who is getting this advantage?
Paramahaṁsa: Big businessmen.
Prabhupāda: Jugglery of words, that's all.
Bahulāśva: Their idea is very close to the Brahman conception, though. They think that one pure energy is pervading the whole universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bahulāśva: And it has no material properties.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you accept energy, then you must enquire what is the source of the energy? Energy is produced. Just like here is energy, but it is produced under certain arrangement. Where the energy is being produced? If you accept energy, that is knowledge. Now, just like electrical energy is, what is called, generated in the powerhouse. You cannot say the electrical energy has jump over. It is being generated. Eh?
Prabhupāda: "Money means happiness." This is the civilization. And after getting money, drink wine and topless, bottomless, and go to hell." That's all. This is their position, mūḍha, rākṣasa, thinking that "I am living this fifty years or hundred years so luxuriantly. That is the fulfillment of life." Because he does not know the life is eternal, one spot he is taking very important. The meaning of life, what is the aim of life—"Don't bother. Enjoy." And what is that enjoyment? Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). Is that enjoyment? (break) ...used in the Bhagavad-gītā, mūḍha, it is very appropriate. No knowledge. Not only here, throughout the whole universe, even in the upper planetary system, they are also engaged in the same foolishness. Greater fool and a smaller fool. (break) ...sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. That part is Canada?
Prabhupāda: These are contradictory. You are talking something, you are form, and you say the original talker is formless. How it is possible?
Kartikeya: Sir, you are building building. There is no architect? How in the building there are no architects? Anything that is made must have got an architect or... Whole universe is there
Indian man (3): But none of us... I believe that there is God.
Kartikeya: No, no, but why don't you give a body?
Indian man (3): But why do you give Him a form, actually?
Kartikeya: Because we have got forms. He has got form.
Indian man (3): Just because you have got form, He must also have a form?
Kartikeya: Yes, because we are His reflection; we are His particles.
Prabhupāda: What are these plants? Pineapple? No. Different. (break) ...intelligent. Just like here is sunshine. Wherefrom the sunshine is coming? We can see the sun globe. So what is the arrangement there? This is inquiry. And there must be some heating arrangement, lighting arrangement. There must be some fire. And who has made this fire? How it came, so big fire that the whole universe is heated and light? This is inquiry. And see the sunshine and say, "It is nature," and finish business, dismiss all other questions—what is this nonsense? "I am great scientist." Eh? What is your reply? "It is nature, that's all." A great scientist. That a child can say also. It is automatic. That is not intelligence. If the scientists simply study the sunshine, they will have to come to the conclusion there is God. But they will not do that. They will bluff others, they will cheat others, and they will be cheated. And still they pass on as great scientist. Study the sunshine, wherefrom it is coming.
Prabhupāda: Why one does not do it? Why I get up at night, one o'clock, and do this job? Because I cannot do without it. How one will do it artificially? This is quality. Therefore they like my purports. That quality is shown by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śunyayitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda virahena me. "Oh, I do not see Govinda. The whole world is vacant." Śunyayitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda virahena me. This is quality. Just like we have got practical example. One man's beloved has died, and he is seeing the whole universe vacant. Is it vacant? So that is quality of love. So there is no formula of quality. It is to be understood by himself. Just like if after eating something you feel refreshed and get strength, that is quality. You haven't got to take certificate: "Will you give me a certificate that I have eaten?" You'll understand whether eaten or not. That is quality. When you will feel so much ecstasy in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is quality. Not artificially—"Chant. Chant. Otherwise get out." This is not quality. This is in expectation that someday you may come to quality. That requires time. That requires sincerity. But quality is there. Śravanādi śuddha citte karaye... It will be awakened. Not by force. Just like love between two persons, it cannot be forced. "You must love him. You must love her." Oh, that is no love. That is not love.
Prabhupāda: These four principles will make so many bogus bābās as useless, simply if you follow these four principles. (break)
Akṣayānanda: ...that Rāmacandra ate meat. Some people have said to me...
Prabhupāda: Rāmacandra can eat you and the whole universe. (laughter) Can you do that? By... Even Rāmacandra used to eat meat, so you can simply imitate for meat-eating. But why don't you imitate how to construct a bridge over the ocean? Why don't you say that Rāmacandra constructed a bridge on the ocean. Can you do that?
Akṣayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Then you are rascal.
Prabhupāda: Then how you can? These rascals, these Māyāvādīs, they play rāsa-līlā. (break) ...ācarati śreṣṭhas means that śreṣṭha is ordinary person, but not Bhagavān. Bhagavān can act any way. And still, Bhagavān has never instructed you that "You imitate Me in raising the Govardhana Hill." Has He said like that, that "You also raise the Govardhana Hill like Me"? (break) ...orders man-manā bhava mad-bhakto ṁad-yājī mām. That is for you. Always think of Him. Always become His devotee. Worship Him. Offer your obeisances. That's all. That is for you. Yasodamayi was asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can you bring the slipper of Your father?" He could not. He was a small child. Still, with great difficulty He could raise that. But the person who can raise the Govardhana Hill, He was feeling difficulty to raise the slipper? Why? If at that time He becomes like Govardhana, Giridhārī, then the līlā between father and son will be damaged. He plays just like a child. Although He can raise even in that age, to raise the hill. One should understand Kṛṣṇa. Everyone compares Him with ordinary man: "Kṛṣṇa has done this? Then I shall do." Kṛṣṇa has done so many other things. Why don't you do it? This rascal... Anyone who imitates Kṛṣṇa on the plea that "Kṛṣṇa has played this; therefore we shall do." He can do anything. He can eat meat and He can eat the whole universe. That was shown to His mother: "Mother, you are angry because I have eaten dirt. Now see within My mouth the whole universe is in.
Harikeśa: So therefore, in the beginning Kṛṣṇa gives you the big post, Brahmā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: Now you're in charge of creating a whole universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you want lord it over, "Alright you become Brahma." He gives so much facility.
Harikeśa: And then this Brahmā creates so many different desires, and then he goes through all the different bodies.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: Everyone becomes Brahmā first?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the sun has it's own...
Hari-śauri: But the sun has an orbit around the whole thing...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's own course.
Hari-śauri: So the whole universe moves around. Every twenty-four hours it does one rotation. And then the sun is also round all that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Every twenty-four hours?
Prabhupāda: The moon.
Gurudāsa: Acintya-bhedābheda-tattva.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: They have brought some dust, but this is not bright.
Trivikrama: They say it's reflected light.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is the material that makes it so bright so that whole universe is illuminated?
Haṁsadūta: There's no comment on that point.
Pṛthu-putra: They don't know that.
Prabhupāda: They have brought some dust, but that is not bright. They have said.... The other scientists, they said, "This kind of dust can be available here." Just see. Now, how it is bright?
Prabhupāda: That is God. They are materially thinking, "If God has bifurcated Himself in so many, everywhere, all-pervading, then where is God?" This is foolishness. That Kṛṣṇa says, that
"Still I am separate." This is wanted. The example is there. Suppose a sunshine is there and throughout the whole universe, and if you say, "Now sun is finished," is sun finished? This is all foolishness. The sun is there; sun-god is there. Still, the sunshine is spread all over the universe.
Dr. Patel: Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya...
Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam... (Iso Invocation)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mythology.
Rāmeśvara:...imagination.
Prabhupāda: But why? Your imagination. You have not gone throughout the whole universe. You cannot say. You are imperfect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say neither you have gone, so how can you know...
Prabhupāda: No, I have got authority, you have got no authority.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, simply some story books, they say.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Whatever it may be, I can present some literature, but you have nothing. You rascal. (laughs) Whatever it may be, I have got something, but you have nothing.
Prabhupāda: Did I say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You said that Jesus only gave shelter to his few followers, but Vāsudeva Datta prayed that the whole sinful activities of the whole universe...
Rāmeśvara: "Be on me, I'll take them."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said, I think it said, he was a thousand times greater. You wrote that in the purport.
Prabhupāda: Nature's law is not like that, that you suffer for me. No. I suffer for my. It is magnanimity that I'll suffer. Sometimes they do so, but actually nature's law is different. If you have committed theft, you will suffer; why I shall suffer? Even if I say in the court that "I'll go to jail," he'll not go. (break) ...city in the world except in America, such nice roads.
Rāmeśvara: In the Fifth Canto, you've quoted from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura that the most sacred place in the whole universe is Śrī Māyāpura-dhāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: In all the universe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In each universe there is a Vṛndāvana and a Māyāpura. That means in each universe there's a planet earth like this planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many planets. Each universe full of planets. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. There are millions of universes, and in each universe there are millions of planets. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. (end)
Pradyumna: "These four items are by far inferior to engagement in the devotional service of the Lord. Śrī Vyāsadeva as the authorized scholar knew very well this difference, and still, instead of giving more importance to the better type of engagement, namely the devotional service of the Lord, he had more or less improperly used his valuable time, and thus he was despondent. From this it is clearly indicated that no one can be pleased substantially without being engaged in the devotional service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā this fact is clearly mentioned. After liberation, which is the last item in the line of performing religiosity, etc., one is engaged in pure devotional service. This is called the stage of self-realization or brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. After attainment of this brahma-bhūta stage one is satisfied, but satisfaction is the beginning of transcendental bliss. One should progress by attaining neutrality and equality in the relative world. In passing this stage of equanimity, one is fixed up in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. This is the instruction of the Personality of Godhead in the Bhagavad-gītā. The conclusion is that in order to maintain the status quo of the brahma-bhūta stage, as also to increase the degree of transcendental realization, it is recommended by Nārada to Vyāsadeva that he, Vyāsadeva, should now eagerly and repeatedly describe the path of devotional service. This would cure him from gross despondency."
"Those words which do not describe the glories of the Lord, who alone can sanctify the atmosphere of the whole universe, are considered by saintly persons to be like unto a place of pilgrimage for crows."
Prabhupāda: Just like the modern newspaper. Huge bundle of newspaper every morning, huh? So it is, as it is said here, the place of enjoyment for the crows. What is that?
Prabhupāda: But why these rascals say it is full of dust, and how from the dust so much light is coming, illuminating the whole universe? What is their logic? They have already brought the dust. That dust does not illuminate.
Hari-śauri: Well, they say just like when the sunlight hits the earth, then the earth appears very bright from outer space. It appears very illuminating.
Prabhupāda: Who says?
Hari-śauri: This is the scientists' excuse. They showed some pictures taken from outer space that shows the earth glowing very brightly, like the moon. So they say in the same way when the...
Prabhupāda: They have brought some sand. Such a brilliant planet which is illuminating the whole universe and they brought sand. All bluff.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They've studied this very carefully.
Prabhupāda: All bluff.
Yadubara: According to the Bhāgavatam, the sun is also 93,000,000 miles away from the earth?
Prabhupāda: That is we shall see later on. It is about. The whole diameter is 4 billions. And sun is situated almost in the middle. It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But their scientists would be mad...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The moon?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is so brilliant that it is illuminating the whole universe.
Devotee: They say the moon is a reflection.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Why reflection not come in our Sahara desert? Why you don't see such reflection in the Sahara desert so that the whole world may be illuminated?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is also going to be very critical.
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Prabhupāda: No, no. They're badly trained up. Not all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are many good things that they have done.
Prabhupāda: That we already admitted. That I can see ten feet, let me credit, take credit for that. But why shall I say, "I can see the whole universe." What is this nonsense? Speak the truth. "Now we have manufactured machine, and this, I have calculation that..." All talking nonsense. I say it is not possible for you to see beyond ten feet. Why you are claiming that you can see the whole sky? That is our protest. You can see ten feet, take that credit, that much. If somebody manufactures the electric lamp, all right. Take this. But if he says, "I can manufacture the sun." Then he is to be beaten with shoes. Talking nonsense. You take this credit, that you have manufactured light in electric bulb, that's all right. But why you claim that, "I can manufacture the sun"? That is their claim, defying God.
Prabhupāda: Not attached! It is attachment. "No attachment" means I have earned this two millions dollars, and I throw it away. That is no attachment. But that is also stated, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27), "Give that money to Me." Vāmanadeva. "Mahārāja Bali, you are so great personality. Give Me three feet of land." Then He covered the whole universe. So that is Kṛṣṇa's policy. Mā phaleṣu kadācana. Then what shall I do with the result? "Give Me." That is bhakti. He'll not immediately give it up, but Kṛṣṇa as a beggar, as Vāmanadeva, He's asking, "Give Me." If you are actually following Kṛṣṇa's instructions, you'll give it. The actual fact is that you become attached to Kṛṣṇa and detached to everything. But as you cannot do it immediately, this is a policy. The same policy, Vāmanadeva. He went to beg from Bali Mahārāja. So Bali Mahārāja was very munificent, he gave Him, "Yes, promise, whatever You want, I shall give." So He took everything.
Rāmeśvara: (break) ...were just amazed at the dancing of Lord Caitanya. How Lord Jagannātha would stop His car just to see. It says that Lord Jagannātha is maintaining the whole universe, so who can carry Him? Only by His sweet will for His own pastimes can He be moved. And the cart that moves Him is as tall as Mount Sumeru.
Prabhupāda: Potamkin..., and what was that in Washington, Potomyer?
Devotees: Potomac.
Rāmeśvara: And you wrote that just like the cart of Jagannātha is compared to Mount Sumeru, similarly, in London they were comparing it to that statue of Lord Nelson.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Nelson's column.
Rāmeśvara: Lord Nelson's column.
Prabhupāda: Rival to Nelson. They published, Guardian.
Prabhupāda: Oh, give them this garland. (break) ...he begins with surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So anyone who voluntarily offers obeisances, immediately he becomes fifty percent advanced. Because.... Who is talking? This material world means nobody wants to surrender. Everyone wants to become master: "I am the monarch of all I survey." Everyone is planning how to become a master. Therefore the struggle for existence. Nobody wants to become a servant. You know very well in European history, Napoleon wanted to become the master of all Europe. Hitler wanted also. Similarly, there were so many leaders, sometimes Roman leaders, sometimes Greek leaders, sometimes French leaders, sometimes German leaders, English leader. The whole European history is full of fighting, war. The basic idea is that everyone wanted to become master. That is the material disease. We are now discussing Bali Mahārāja. He also wanted to become master of the whole universe.
Prabhupāda: This is not for everyone.
Hari-śauri: There's a nice purport. Should I read the purport? "When we speak of brahmāṇḍa, we refer to the whole universe, or to the cluster of many millions of universes. In all universes, there are innumerable planets and innumerable living entities upon those planets in the air and in the water. There are millions and trillions of living entities everywhere, and they are engaged by māyā in suffering and enjoying the results of their fruitive activity life after life. This is the position of the materially conditioned living entities. Out of many of these living entities, if one is actually fortunate (bhāgyavān), he comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and if one desires something, Kṛṣṇa fulfills one's desire.
Prabhupāda: And they will advertise that these descriptions in the śāstras, they are all mythology. Of course, this kind of bluffing cannot go because suppose this Mars expedition becomes a failure, like that, the same... It will be failure. So next time, if they propose, I think people will be hesitant to allow them to. Simply bringing people rocks and sands, without any utility, after spending so much money. How long they can repeat this, "Yes, we went to this planet, rocks. We went to this-rocks." So we see variety. Is the so many luminaries, simply rocks and sands? The moon is full of rocks and it's so illuminating? Whole universe is illuminated so nice, moonshine. So many stars illuminating and they're rocks and sand? We have to believe it?
Prabhupāda: No, there are always two classes of men: devatā and demons. Demon class will always say like that, "There is no God. We are everything." Devatā class, they will always believe in. That is the difference, devatā class. This struggle will always be there. (Sanskrit) There are two classes of men throughout the whole universe. One is called daiva and the other is called asura. The Viṣṇu-bhaktaḥ bhaved daivaḥ.(?) Those who are devotees of the Lord, they are daiva. And asura (Sanskrit). And those who are not devotees, they are just the opposite number, they are asura. So asura class will always (coughs) say like that. And there is always fight between the two, even in higher planetary systems. Only Brahmaloka, Satyaloka, there are no more asuras. So asura class will always fight like that, and devatā class will always defy. But for God everyone is equal, because all of them are sons of God. Therefore an attempt is always going on to turn the asuras to become devotees.
Guest: That is true. Whole universe is rasa. Even in Mars they're trying to find humidity. What is humidity, rasa. Everything is moving on the rasa only. We are floating on rasa.
Prabhupāda: Our aim of understanding this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not a sentiment. It is a great science, great science. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? If it was a dry...
Guest: Nothing happens in dryness.
Prabhupāda: Why people are accepting our books? You'll be surprised we are selling book to the extent of six lakhs of rupees per day. Daily. Daily we are selling six lakhs of rupees' worth all over the world. So people think philosophy, religion is dry subject matter. If it was dry subject matter, how they could purchase so many books? It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. They are getting for the first time. Here is real ānanda. Therefore they are appreciating. Everyone, learned circle, they are appreciation. In (indistinct) foreign circles. So, there was no such literature.
Prabhupāda: And God is an Indian, that is also rascaldom. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So how He's Indian? Throughout the whole universe, as many forms of body are there, He is the father. So how he is Indian? If the father is Indian, then the son is also Indian. So father is not Indian, so how the God can be Indian?
Pradyumna: Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).
Prabhupāda: Tanum āśritam. This concept of Indian, European is there because you are a mūḍha. Just directly charge him. Directly. That "You are a mūḍha, you are a rascal," immediately. Let him speak. And send it to the newspaper that this letter we have sent challenging this rascal, let him reply. If he does not reply, silent, that means he's accepts he's a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Extracted the fangs. The fangs if they are taken away, it may do like useless. Similarly, for a devotee the indriyas are dangerous. But because devotee, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa. they have engaged their indriyas in the service of the Lord, the fangs are taken out. Durdāntendriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. The whole universe for them is very happy. Everyone is it is very unhappy. For them it is very happy. Because he does not see anything which is not suitable for Kṛṣṇa's service. Viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūrākāśa-puṣpāyate durdānta indriya-kāla-sarpa-paṭalī protkhāta-daṁṣṭrāyate viśvaṁ pūrṇa-sukhāyate vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate(Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). And the post of vidhi, means Brahmā and Mahendra... What is this? Kīṭāyate. It is just like...
Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.
Prabhupāda: Story means it is story for you. Do you know the details of the whole universe, where, what is what? Can you do? You go and say there is no moonshine, but this rascal conclusion will be taken. Why there should be shine? From the sand such brilliant moonshine is coming? We have to believe that? So many books have said (indistinct) brilliant. Sun is brilliant. This... So you rascal, you can believe in that, but we'll not believe. You can say. What do you know about moon? It is all rascaldom. It may be good for rascals like you, not for intelligent man like me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That statement is always published immediately in newspapers. They love to publish that statement, that we say they've not gone to the moon. Immediately...
Prabhupāda: Question is how it is.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Morarji Desai, Indira Gandhi, and... What they'll do? Churchill and this and Napoleon, Hitler. Simply misguiding, whole history. Simply mis... They are rascals. They do not know what is what, and they lead. Gandhi... All rascals. Vivekananda and Sai Baba, this, that, so many... They should be stopped. That is real philanthropic activities. Where is...? Now we are going to show this planetarium. These rascal scientists: "All desert. All rocks and desert." Simply this planet, for his father's property. This is now happening. "The moon planet is a desert." And from the desert such brilliant light is coming that is illuminating at night the whole universe. And we have to believe it because they are spoken by scientists. You see? All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, they are leading. And our determination is to stop these rascals. That is our... It is not that "Let the rascals go on with their...
Prabhupāda: Every one of us messiaḥ. Anyone Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's the messiaḥ. Every one. Why one? All of us. Gaurāṅgera bhakta-gaṇe, jane jane śakti dhari, brahmāṇḍa tari saksi(?): "The devotee of Lord Caitanya, every one has so immense power that every one, they can deliver the whole universe." Gaurāṅgera bhakta-jane, jane jane śakti..., brahmāṇḍa tari... That is Gaurāṅga's men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only you are that powerful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're like...
Prabhupāda: Why you are not? You are my disciples.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're like the bugs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We can take them. Why one hundred million? Whole universe we can take. It is Kṛṣṇa ... Method is simple: you have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. Where is the difficulty? Why one hundred million? All, whole universe we can take, provided they are prepared. Our business is not difficult. What Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said we have to execute and speak Bhagavad-gītā. Bas. What I am doing? These two things are. Not at all. But these rascal will not take. They will manufacture their own way of life. That is the... That is dog's obstinacy. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "Don't become hog and dog here." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujām. The difficulty is that you can preach nice thing, but they will not accept.
Prabhupāda: Unless there is personal conception, there is no question of bhakti. (break) Bhakti means the way to understand the person. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Mām means person, aham, mām. Vague idea, Brahman; distributed idea, Paramātmā; and the personal idea can be applied here. It is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It is not impersonal, not scattered. Particular person, Kṛṣṇa. When Yaśodā-mā was allowing her child to suck her breast, the child was.... And Yasoda mother was enjoying the beautiful face, patting. But all of a sudden she saw within the mouth the whole universe. Immediately she became disturbed: "Another danger is coming." She's not concerned with Kṛṣṇa's expansive, gorgeous.... She's only concern is to Kṛṣṇa, what.... She became disturbed: "What is this nonsense? Again something is coming, danger? Let me remember Nārāyaṇa. He'll save my child from all..." The personal conception is so strong that he (she) disliked to see gorgeous opulence of his (her)...
Prabhupāda: No. It is nonsense that matter gives life. That we want to prove. Matter has no... Matter, I have studied it. Life is superior energy. Apareyam. This matter is useless. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ manaḥ (BG 7.4). They are inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtim. Another, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). This is actually governing the whole universe. They have defied this apareyaṁ me prakṛ..., parām. They have not accepted. The scientists are speculators, most of them. Philosopher means materially thinking.
Brahmānanda: Materially...
Prabhupāda: Thinking.
Dr. Kapoor: So I think I should take leave, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Rāmeśvara: This is Kṛṣṇa eating dirt, and the boys are telling mother Yaśodā. So she is forcing Him to open His mouth, and she sees the whole universe.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: This painting shows Kṛṣṇa about to bifurcate the Bakāsura demon. This is Kṛṣṇa's first birthday, Janmāṣṭamī, and mother Yaśodā and Rohiṇī are bathing Kṛṣṇa, abhiṣeka. This painting is Kṛṣṇa eating butter. (laughter) These are fourteen new paintings for one book. These are the first pictures from the Fiji temple opening. Yaśodā-nandana is performing the abhiṣeka for the small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. They have so many metal bowls with different...
Prabhupāda: He cannot be mystified.
Pradyumna: Viśva-mohanam...
Prabhupāda: He is mystifying the whole universe.
Pradyumna: Svayaiva māyayā—by his own mystic power.
Prabhupāda: He became mystified, Brahmā.
Pradyumna: Ajo 'pi.
Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.
Pradyumna: Svayam eva vimohitaḥ—he himself became bewildered.
Prabhupāda: Each word clear?
Prabhupāda: Read the Bengali.
Pradyumna: (Bengali-Brahmā to kariyā)
Prabhupāda: So Brahmā... Bhagavān... Brahmā wanted to bewilder Kṛṣṇa, who is bewildering the whole universe.
Pradyumna: Viśva...
Prabhupāda: Do you follow?
Pradyumna: Yes. (Bengali-Viṣṇur to hailena)
Prabhupāda: The... This... Mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). The whole universe is under His mystic power, and Brahmā wanted to mystify Him. The result is that on the contrary, Brahmā himself became mystified. It is clear?
| Page Title: | Whole universe (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of May, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=85, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 85 |