What to speak of... (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"what to speak of"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In our childhood I saw. To go weekend to the garden and... Generally they go with family, and others, they go with prostitute. With prostitute they have got freedom to handle. The higher... And not only that, during marriage ceremony, high circle marriage ceremony, they would participate in drinking, even men and women. Otherwise, in India, woman drinking or taking meat is a horrible crime. And what to speak of smoking? That is most shameless. That was aristocratic, drinking and eating meat... The Bengali, they were the richer section because others, they were foreigners. They came to Calcutta and earned money. And the Bengalis, they had their aristocratic families, zamindaries, everything in their occupation. So Bengalis were richer section in Calcutta, and..., four, five big, big families. And now they are finished on account of this aristocracy. So one gentleman, he was Harendranatha Singh, very rich man, one of the richest men of Calcutta. He lost all his estate simply by this extravagance. Every evening his house is full with guests every evening, for... What is called? That table?

Girirāja: Billiards?

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?"S So he said, "My dear..." He did not say "My dear father." He said "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam. "My dear the best of the asuras..." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that is best education..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself as very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition. "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?" And what happiness you can give? You are not God. Who is taking care of them? But this is māyā. He was thinking, "If I am not there, then whatever I have got, it will be finished."

D. D. Desai: After Mahatmaji had got his independence...

Prabhupāda: What independence?

D. D. Desai: The independence was obtained, and some people asked him...

Prabhupāda: I asked him!

D. D. Desai: I don't know who asked... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a...

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The ignorance of law... Why? Why this human form of life? To know. Why you do not try to know it? Then you must be punished. Kṛṣṇa said, aśraddhadhānāḥ puruṣā. "If you are neglectful to know," dharmasyāsya parantapa, "this dharma, this science, this duty, what I am giving..." Aśraddadhānāḥ: "Eh! Bhagavad-gītā is..." Aśraddadhānāḥ. There is no śraddhā. Rascals. "Then the result will be mām aprāpya. He does not get Me." Then what is next? Nivartante: "He goes back." Where? Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani: (BG 9.3) "Again in the cycle of birth and death, birth and death." Again, after millions and millions of years, he'll come, again get the chance of human body, another chance to know. So this is the chance to know. You cannot expect the dog will know, the cat will know. You have got human being. You must know. The signboard, "Keep to the left," is meant for the human being. If the dog goes from right to the left, he is not to be punished, because he has no knowledge. This is common sense. But you cannot neglect. You are human being. You cannot say, "I did not see the signboard. I did not know the law. Therefore, by chance, I have violated." No. No "by chance." You must be punished. This is the responsibility of... Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, therefore, sings, hari hari bifale, janama goṅāinu: "I have wasted my time." How? Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā: "I got this human form of life. I did not know what is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu: "Knowingly, I have taken poison." A human being, if he does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, that means knowingly, he is taking poison, and he must die. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Sometimes I do not know what is poison. Just like child does not know. He may take. But he'll not be excused. Even a child takes poison, it does not mean the nature's law will excuse him. No. But.... What to speak of child, a human being, if he takes poison, jāniyā śuniyā, then what is to be...? So in the human form of life, you cannot neglect the instruction of Bhagavān. Then you'll be punished. Severe punishment. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān ksipāmy ajasram andhā-yoniṣu (BG 16.19).

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore Nitāi left. He was instigated that "Your guru is useless. Find out a better guru and remain in bhajana." This rascal left. He talked with (indistinct). Now where he has gone? Nobody knows where is the paramahaṁsa.

Girirāja: The others are envious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're ordinary men. Man's business is to become envious. An ordinary third-class men, there is always envy. Not only first class, but third class. And what to speak of Vaiṣṇava and paramahaṁsa. Third-class men. And the government is capturing them and giving sterilization because there is record—so many abortions in the American Hospital. The bābājīs are making pregnant the widows, and they are going for abortion. There are many cases, similar, and there is American Hospital.

Girirāja: In Vṛndāvana?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not all. But wherefrom they are becoming pregnant?

Hari-śauri: What is the need for any bābājī to get sterilized, anyway?

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Every page, the center is Kṛṣṇa. Not only the Kṛṣṇa book. All our books-Caitanya-caritāmṛta—the center is Kṛṣṇa. Bhāgavata, the center is Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad-gītā center is Kṛṣṇa. Nectar of Devotion, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Similarly, our, this book, the center is Kṛṣṇa. When we open a temple, the center is Kṛṣṇa. In this way manage, promotion. All spend for promotion. Then the income tax will not be able to touch your hair, what to speak of your body. (laughter) So now our counterpropaganda is going on. The center is Kṛṣṇa. Big, big Kṛṣṇa's name are coming: "These Kṛṣṇa people," "These Kṛṣṇa devotees," "This Kṛṣṇa center"—that is our triumph. What is that?

Trivikrama: There is a letter.

Prabhupāda: Letter from?

Rāmeśvara: I was mentioning it this morning. We intercept their newsletters.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rāmeśvara: They are simply talking about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is our triumph.

Rāmeśvara: They're in a Kaṁsa-sampradāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Following the example of Kaṁsa, unfavorable meditation on Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Eight hours.

Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.

Rāmeśvara: The whole war of Kurukṣetra was just so Kṛṣṇa's devotees...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It was designed by Kṛṣṇa. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bas, finished, all the demons finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bas, finished." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin: "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Kṛṣṇa's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise without your help they are already killed." So... Kṛṣṇa... Paritrāṇāya... He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is another side of His business. (end)

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.

Rāmeśvara: They are getting everyone in America to ask the question, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" Because of all their false propaganda, everyone is asking, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: And that is our triumph. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read that even the New York Daily News took a poll to find out. They were asking every person what they think about Hare Kṛṣṇa. Usually they only take polls for very important issues.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but it was terrible. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The poll?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14).

Prabhupāda: Ah. "Whatever you are saying," yan māṁ vadasi keśava, "I accept them." No cut short. No mutilation. Then?

Hari-śauri: Na hi te bhagavan vyaktiṁ vidur devā na dānavāḥ.

Prabhupāda: "Your personality is not understood even by the demigods, what to speak of ordinary men." Then?

Hari-śauri: Vidur devā na dānavāḥ.

Prabhupāda: What the devā? The demigods do not, what to speak of the demons, dānavāḥ. Then? Next verse?

Hari-śauri:

svayam evātmanātmānaṁ

vettha tvaṁ puruṣottama

bhūta-bhāvana bhūteśa

deva-deva jagat-pate

Prabhupāda: So, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). So sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). If we accept sarvam etad ṛtam, as it is, then we benefited, and if we do not accept in that way, then it is naṣṭaḥ. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. Then it is being spoiled. And what benefit you will get with spoiled thing? As soon as you interpret it is spoiled, immediately spoiled. So what benefit will be derived from the spoiled things? And that is being done. Don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, don't believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, and if I am preaching Bhagavad-gītā, what is the benefit? It is spoiled? So if you distribute some spoiled food, it will increase food poison. That is going on. Instead of taking benefit from a first-class food, if you distribute a spoiled, then there will be food poisoning. That is being done. In India every home knows Bhagavad-gītā. And because it is spoiled now there will be food poisoning. They are denying the existence of God. God is speaking—Bhagavān uvāca—and they are now..., don't.... They are not believing in the existence of God. "God? Where is God?" Science. This is going on. If we speak of God, then we are "primitive." And up-to-date? "I am God; you are God." This is up to date. And if we say, "Now, God is Kṛṣṇa. You worship Him. You become devotee," this is primitive. And these Americans, although they are up to date, they have accepted it, my word. I presented them that Kṛṣṇa is God. They have accepted. This is their qualification.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)

Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.

Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Rāmeśvara: The American people are... They consider it backwards. Prabhupāda: That has to be educated, that backward is real life.

Rāmeśvara: They think they have achieved a higher standard of freedom by traveling all over the world...

Prabhupāda: Where is your freedom? Where is your freedom if for your livelihood you have to go a hundred miles? Where is your freedom? Why you are illusioned? For your bread, you have to go hundred miles off, either by car or by train. So where is your freedom?

Rāmeśvara: The freedom is in leisure time. They have a lot of leisure time.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction. That is your position. In this way try to understand. "Jesus had to deal with rascals like you. Therefore he... Even ordinary moral principles, you could not, what to speak of other things." Actually that is the fact. Actually that is the fact. He had to deal with rascals and fools. Is that civilization, that first of all argue, "Thou shall not kill"? That means you were all rascals engaged in killing business. Is that civilized men? Why he said like that? Is that very good philosophy? Mean they were so low class that they had to be stopped first of all, these sinful activities. That also, they could not. This is their position. And for the last two thousand years they could not. Such nice brain. They could not understand even one instruction of Jesus Christ. And you are proud of becoming Christian, rascals. "You do not know what is Christianity, what is Jesus Christ. You are all rascals." Tell them like that. What do you think?

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is described in the śāstra. If one hears of the Yadu-vaṁśa, he becomes purified. And Kṛṣṇa is addressed, Yadupati. Then?

Hari-śauri: "Having taken birth in that family, how could Kṛṣṇa have been induced even by the gopīs? It is concluded therefore that it was not possible for Kṛṣṇa to do anything abominable. But Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in doubt as to why Kṛṣṇa acted in that way. What was the real purpose? Another word Mahārāja Parīkṣit used when he addressed Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suvrata, which means to take a vow to enact pious activities. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was an educated brahmacārī, and under the circumstance it was not possible for him to indulge in sex. This is strictly prohibited for brahmacārīs, and what to speak of a brahmacārī like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But because the circumstances of the rasa dance were very suspect, Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired for clarification from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī immediately replied that transgressions of religious principles by the supreme controller testify to His great power. For example, fire can consume any abominable thing. That is the manifestation of the supremacy of fire. Similarly, the sun can absorb water from urine or from stool, and the sun is not polluted. Rather, due to the influence of sunshine the polluted, contaminated place becomes disinfected and sterilized. One may also argue that since Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, His activities should be followed. In answer to this question, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has very clearly said, īśvarāṇām, or the supreme controller, may sometimes violate His instructions, but this is only possible for the controller Himself and not for the followers. Unusual and uncommon activities by the controller can never be imitated. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that the conditioned followers who are not actually in control should never even imagine imitating the uncommon activities of the controller.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Why you are trying for? Simply make a show? You are thinking already, but you do not know. Your world is your father, mother, and two sisters, that's all. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. That is your world. A little family, a little community, that is your world. We do not think in that way. We include even the animals, trees, plants-brothers. That is our philosophy. We feel. When you cut a tree unnecessarily, we feel. This is our feeling. Unless there is absolute necessity, we do not wish to kill even a tree, what to speak of animals. When in our Bombay the coconut trees were being cut, I was feeling actually: "Why unnecessarily the coconut trees...?" You cannot give anyone life, so how, what is living, you can kill? It may be tree or animal or plant. You cannot give him life. So you have to suffer for this.

Gargamuni: Can we go inside?

Satsvarūpa: He said it was open in the morning.

Gargamuni: See if we can go inside. (break)

Prabhupāda: I was going to purchase ticket, Māgha Melā. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."

Bhāgavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh, zoological.

Bhāgavata: Yes, zoological. All types. And on this side they have the lions, tigers, bears... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the forest and see actually. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Africa they're open.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Many houses. I was not sleeping at night, and there was some sound, "gongongongon," in my ear. So long the body will be there, there will be so many troubles. And Kṛṣṇa has advised that "They will come and go. Don't care for them. That's all." Āgamāpāyino 'nityās tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata.

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya

śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino 'nityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

(BG 2.14)

So bodily, mental, by enemies, so many impediments will come. What can be done? We have to tolerate. That is material world. We cannot expect smooth, very happy. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa advising Arjuna, what to speak of us. What we are in comparison to Arjuna. He's His personal friend, talking with Him. He said, tāṁs titikṣasva. Kṛṣṇa never said, "I have made some magic. You'll have no failure," like that. Tāṁs titikṣasva. "You just try to tolerate." That's all. He never gave him any tablet. (chuckling) He taught that... So we have to do that. As the modern gurus says that "I'll give you some ash. There will be no trouble," Kṛṣṇa did He so? He said, "No, tolerate." That's all. He could have said, "I'll give you some ash." "You are ass; I'll give you some ash." (laughter) Neither Arjuna asked also, that "Why You are asking me to fight? Give me some ash. I'll throw." He was not such a fool that he asked some magic from Kṛṣṇa and kill his enemies. Actually he fought. This is Bhagavad-gītā. So face things as they are and depend on Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. We must go on with our duty. Don't expect any ash, miracle, magic. So what is...? You have got sleeping place?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: He is also... He becomes recognized by the master. "Oh, he is trying for this, what I want." Naturally he becomes immediately recognized, although he has no qualification. If he tries. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become guru. No qualification required. Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said." Just see how simplified. Don't talk anything nonsense. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-bas. So who cannot do it? Anyone can do it, even a child. (laughs) Our Śyāmasundara's daughter. She was preaching, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "No I have got no..." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching, simply if you say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality, supreme controller. Just be obedient to Him." Where is the difficulty? Anyone can preach. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Three words: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; surrender unto Him; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your life will be successful. What is the difficulty in preaching these three words? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Even a child like Sarasvatī, she can preach. Then what to speak of others? Those who are educated, grown-up, advanced, they can put the matter more nicely, more convincingly, more philosophically. That is another thing. But these three words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord; you are servant; and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa"—bas, preaching complete. Very simple thing and the sublime instruction. Everyone can become guru by simply teaching these three words. Not sophisticated, but he must also understand not blindly. Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra, janma sārthaka kari (CC Adi 9.41)'. He must also understand these three words perfectly. Then wherever he speaks, he'll be successful. Not that "For you I am speaking. I can do everything independently." No. I am also servant of Kṛṣṇa. Realized. This is realization.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Intelligence is developed by association, by hearing, by experiencing. Otherwise very big intelligence, he's also dull. Don't you see the big, big leaders, Gandhi and Radhakrishnan, they have no intelligence? They are misinterpreting the whole..., although they're passing as very big men, intelligent. And if you say to them that "You are not intelligent; you are wrongly interpreting Bhagavad-gītā," they will be offended. So intelligence is so dull even to such big, big men, what to speak of ordinary men? Big, big demigods, their intelligence also lacking. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, kona: "Somebody very fortunate, he can understand." Kona bhāgyavān. And another place, brahmāra durlabha prema: "Even Brahmā cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). These things are... So this intelligence is not so easy. Na janma-koṭibhiḥ sukṛtair labhyate. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). There are so many places that "To come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not so easy." It requires very, very great intelligence.

Satsvarūpa: When you say the creation is a mercy, the only mercy is...

Prabhupāda: Mercy means there is regular propaganda to give this intelligence.

Satsvarūpa: Not simply that you suffer.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: The fact that we suffer, that in itself does not make us...

Prabhupāda: No, suffering is already.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: "One can become free from the control of material nature as soon as he surrenders his soul to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the preliminary formula. Being marginal potency, as soon as the living entity is freed from the control of material nature, he is put under the guidance of the spiritual nature. The guidance of the spiritual nature is called daivīṁ prakṛtim, divine nature. So when one is promoted in that way by surrendering to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one attains to the stage of a great soul, mahātmā. The mahātmā does not divert his attention to anything outside Kṛṣṇa because he knows perfectly well that Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There is no doubt about it. Such a mahātmā or great soul develops through association with other mahātmās, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Kṛṣṇa's other features, such as the four-armed Mahā-Viṣṇu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Kṛṣṇa. Since they are not attracted to other features of Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of the demigods, they are not concerned with any form of a demigod or of a human being. They only meditate upon Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is the... What do you think? What is your definition of mahātmā?

Guest (1): Gītā said, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were envious that "How do you live so opulently? You do not do anything? You have got so many cars. You eat so nicely. You live in such a nice house. And no anxiety." (laughs)

Brahmānanda: That's why they think we are CIA, because they think we're getting money from somewhere, from government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja accusing me that I have got two crores of rupees from American government to start this movement. (laughs) Even my Godbrother says, what to speak of others. Nobody is living such nice house, all of my Godbrothers. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: None of them have done that.

Prabhupāda: They were unable. Neither they have got idea of aristocratically, how to live aristocratically. You won't find in any one of my Godbrothers a place like this. This is aristocratic. This is Indian aristocracy. Table-chair is not aristocratic. This is more comfortable. And cheap also.

Hari-śauri: If they saw somewhere like Detroit they'd be... If they saw the Detroit place then they'd really...

Prabhupāda: Detroit?

Hari-śauri: For aristocratic living.

Brahmānanda: Our temple in Detroit is very opulent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is aristocratic house. You have seen it?

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need oxen. Individually, small grinding-chapki(?). And in the morning they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and grind. (sings) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare... This is very nice process. Whatever they require for the day, they grind fresh. Very nice system. And actually, by this exercise, they keep their body beautiful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keeps them well engaged.

Prabhupāda: And engagement. Yaśodāmāyi was doing that, even she is the queen of Nanda Mahārāja, what to speak of other women. Churning milk, grinding the wheat, this is their household. We have got that picture. Full engagement. Otherwise gossiping...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Trouble.

Prabhupāda: Trouble. And whisping for laugh. That's all. (laughs) Whisping or whispering?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whispering.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) "Idle brain, devil's workshop." Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In the year 1976 we cultivated 5 acres of vegetables, including 24 tons of potatoes. We also have 25 beehives, which produce 100 pounds of honey per hive. There is also a fruit orchard with a 150 trees, including apples, pears, peaches, and plum trees. Lastly, we are fortunate..."

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What can they do in darkness? (laughter) That is the only engagement in darkness.

Jayapatākā: They could have chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No... Even Hare Kṛṣṇa people. Nāviviktāsano bhavet, mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). It is strictly forbidden: "You should not sit alone even with your mother, sister or daughter, what to speak of wife." Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁsam api karṣati: "The senses are so strong, even learned persons, advanced, they also become victimized." Balavān indriya-grāmaḥ. Balavān means very strong. When the... It is forbidden even with mother, sister or..., and daughter. That is the only capturing instrument in the material world. Maithunyam agāra, prison house of sex, this material world. It is a prison house, but locked up by sex. The ordinary prison house, they are locked up by guards, and here the locking process is sex. Maithunyam agāra. The words are selected in Bhāgavata. They are thinking free. (laughs) They are imprisoned, locked up. And everyone falsely thinking, "I am free. Our nation is free. I am free." What nonsense free? You are locked up already. That he does not... Now this word is used, maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. He has preferred to remain in this prison locked up by sex because he is rascal. Maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ.

Pradyumna: Where is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: In the... Find out, Fifth, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Bhāgavata is the only guide. Read Bhāgavata, repeatedly whole life. Safe. Always. Always, whenever there is time, read, read, read.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That has to be understood, and therefore He's explaining in so many ways. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This one word, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. He cannot understand it. "The body's finished, everything's finished." These rascal professors. And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20), "Don't think it is finished. It is there." Who will understand it? It requires a special brain. These rascals say, "Now everything's finished. The body's finished." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, no. Not finished." Who will understand this, unless he has got a very good brain? And our education begins from that point. These rascals, when they are disappointed—"Bas, finished"—we begin from there. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). It is not finished. It is there. Where it is? Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) he has taken another body. A man is sleeping; he has taken another body. He's jumping on the tree. How we can see? It's a fact. He has forgotten that "I am on a nice bed," and he's somewhere else. How it is? You see that he is sleeping, that he's not working. But he is working. Where is that brain? And it is a fact. I see the man is sleeping, but he has gone somewhere else. That is our daily experience. You cannot see it, where he has gone. He has gone to the jungle. He's seeing there is a tiger and he's crying, "Tiger! Tiger!" You cannot see. So why he's crying? So how can you see his activities? You have no such eyes. You cannot see even how the subtle body is working, and what to speak of the soul. He's dreaming means his subtle body, mind, is working, and therefore, within the mind, he is seeing some tiger and he's crying, "Oh, here is tiger! Save me! Save me! Save me!" And the man in the gross, he cannot see: "Where is tiger?" You cannot see; it does not mean that he does not see. And that is another brainless proposal. "You cannot see." What you can see?

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. What is the value of that? The machine is made by another brain, and it is being worked over by another brain. And who has made that brain who has made the machine? That is māyā. Then ultimately you have to come to māyā. And who is giving direction? Big brain, Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). He is making machine—carācaram. Yasyājñayā... Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Māyā is Durgā, the superintending deity of this whole, whole universe. And she is Durgā, therefore called. "Very difficult." Duḥ-gā. You can approach her very, with difficulty. Duḥ. Duḥ means duḥkha.. You cannot understand even Durgā, so what to speak of the Supreme Person who is giving directions to this...? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya... (Bs. 5.44), chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā. She has no independent intelligence. She is working like chāya. Just like here, chāya. This is moving; this is moving.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shadow.

Prabhupāda: Shadow. The shadow has no power to move. Chāyeva. How nice example. Although Durgā, the material nature, is so powerful, she is powerful in that way, as much the shadow is powerful. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti. Again explained, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate. "Whatever she is doing, she is doing according to the desire of the Supreme..." Govindam ādi-puruṣam. "O Govinda, You are the Supreme." Everything is there. Everything is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā. Ultimately, govindam ādi-puruṣam.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: They can't even produce the simplest single-celled living entity...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...what to speak of anything else.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Even an amoeba they can't produce.

Prabhupāda: I have said in the Bhāgavata verse in the BTG that "You can make 747, but you cannot make a mosquito."

Hari-śauri: And they can't supply the pilot either.

Prabhupāda: Yes. With pilot the body is there. And he knows the art, how to bite you instantly. He immediately injects his, that little fiber within the hole of the hair. Immediately

Pradyumna: Oh, that's how they do it. When there's a hair hole? They put it there.

Prabhupāda: Immediately. And the warning: "I have come." (makes sound like flying mosquito) "Hnn nn nn." Where is that brain? The mosquito has so nice brain that he gives you warning that "I have come to bite you. If you like, you can save yourself." And he goes and immediately bites, and immediately the business is finished. A mosquito has such a nice brain. Who has made this brain?

Pradyumna: I was just remembering that verse, sattvaṁ śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam (SB 5.5.1). They will fight to the... They will say, "Yes, you are washing the brain." Sattvaṁ śuddhyet.

Prabhupāda: Washing is required because you have no brain. Instead of brain, you have got some stool. So therefore it requires washing. Washing is required because you have no brain.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: English.

Dr. Sharma: I was going to bring to your kind notice, ever since we become independent, our moral fiber is really breaking down. We are spiritually, I think, the..., the deterioration has been very fast after 1947. Somehow this is...

Prabhupāda: This is our so-called leaders misled them. Even Gandhi misled. That Vinobha Bhave is misleading, what to speak of others.

Dr. Sharma: Many of the even small temples in villages, their revenue have been taken away after independence. There are many small temples in where I come from, our village in Rajasthan. And when I was a small boy I used to go to the temple because, you know, my grandfather and my father used to go. And there was a very rich life in the villages because, you know, early morning, we would take a shower, bath, and go to the temples and do our pūjā, and the temple also we'd get some prasādam, and there was some land grants attached to a temple, some cows...

Prabhupāda: Some contribution.

Dr. Sharma: Contribution. And there was a real rich life in Indian village. Now, after independence, that life has been really destroyed. Because the grants have been taken away and here, it's really a pain to see such beautiful temples having no maintenance now. Plus this so-called secular education, you know godless education they have introduced, that has further harmed, because the temple-going public has also dwindled in number. And it looks like there has been a systematic plan to undermine our...

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So harijanas, Muslims, these are... And camara-bhangi. These are designations. Or brāhmaṇa, bodily concept of life. So according to our śāstra, so long one continues this bodily concept of life, he is animal. Either you call I am bhangi, or you call I am brāhmaṇa, you are animal. This is the verdict of the śāstra. What is the difference? The conception is the same. "I am dog." "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Indian," "I am American." That "I am" with the bodily identification is there.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke

sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ

yat tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij

janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

(SB 10.84.13)

Go means cow, khara means ass. So so long we shall continue this bodily concept of life—"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Pakistani," "I am...," so on, so on, that is animal concept of life. So one has to raise himself from this impure designated position to the transcendental position. Then he can realize. And that is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And Bhagavad-gītā teaches from the very beginning, "Don't identify with this body." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are identifying with this body." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "This body is a lump of matter, and you are considering upon this and talking like a paṇḍita." This is the beginning. So who understands Bhagavad-gītā? Where Bhagavad-gītā begins? Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). They do not understand even the first line of Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of this statement. Bhagavad-gītā is purely meant for the dehī, the owner of the body, not of the body. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā teaching. Who understands it? Nobody understands it. And they are scholars, and they are so on, so on.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not possible. No one can do it.

Prabhupāda: He'll have insomnia, cannot sleep at night. What would have been the cost of the establishment? So many men are working.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to speak of worldwide.

Prabhupāda: This is one only.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of one hundred.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not possible. Neither it's possible that... Just like yesterday Kṛṣṇa sends you a man who says, "Sir, I would like to translate your books into Russian." You did not go canvassing for Russian translator. Every single thing is coming... Kṛṣṇa is sending to you.

Prabhupāda: So take shelter of Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet. That is the only way. Then everything is all right.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa gave him within—bullet. Yes. "Your nonviolence is within. You take it within. Take this bullet." Such wrong theory. These are wrong theories. "You want to establish nonviolence, and the violence is within. Take it." So don't theorize. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti (BG 16.23). This is Gītā's word. If you do not follow the śāstra—you manufacture ideas—you'll never get success, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukham, no happiness, and what to speak of parāṁ gatim? (Hindi) Tasmāt śāstra-vidhānoktaṁ kāryākārya... What is that verse? Real guidance, śāstra, and Kṛṣṇa is speaking. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is very easy. But we have given up all these things. (Hindi) So you have to give up this. Otherwise there is no hope. (break) And to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it is not at all difficult. Very simple thing. Otherwise how they have become? Ten years before, they did not know who is Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become Kṛṣṇa conscious? And our position is that even a person like Gandhi, he could not become Kṛṣṇa conscious in hundred years. Because the wrong way. And they have become within ten years fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now ask him that "Go back to your Christian." Will they go? They have been kidnapped. They have been forced. In so many ways they have been harassed. No. In America it was going on. Their fathers... From parents' side they have been kidnapped, detoured by force that "You eat it, the māṁsa. You eat." What is that girl who was kidnapped and she came to temple and married?

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very beginning is...

Girirāja: On the wrong foot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he has to come to see you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oh, there's so many examples in the śāstra of great personalities.

Prabhupāda: Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused to see, what to speak of going there.

Girirāja: I agree with you.

Prabhupāda: Even big, big kings, Akbar, Mansingh, they used to, used to come to Rūpa Gosvāmī.

Girirāja: No, I agree with you completely.

Prabhupāda: Did... He demanded like that?

Girirāja: No. When I spoke to Mr. Rajda I said that the Prime Minister should come here, and Mr. Rajda agreed. But just now, when I... I just spoke to Gopāla. I was on my way to make the call. So he said that I should just ask you about this.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: I was just going to phone, and I mentioned to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu that I was going to make this call. So I said that, you know, the Prime Minister was going to be coming here, so he... And I said that I also, in the call I wanted to make that very clear so there was no mistake. And he said that, well, he might be too busy to come here and that he...

Prabhupāda: Gopāla said.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Before I met you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was smoking cigarettes. So I tried to stop so many times 'cause someone would say it is bad for health. But when you said it is bad for spiritual life, then I could stop, 'cause no one ever said that before, that these things are against spiritual life. No one every said that. Everything is put on such a mundane level, no one cares. But when we're told that "You are spirit, and this is against your spiritual life," then it hits very deeply. Apart from you, no one has ever said anything about spiritual life in the West.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual life. Everywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, what to speak of the West, these Communist countries...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, in India also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing like your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, anywhere. There's no such thing like that. And now they're gracing the homes of millions and millions of people's shelves. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the professors there. And I talked with the head of the Botany Department this morning in Agra, Life Sciences. School is... It's a summer vacation, holiday, but we went to his home, and I started speaking about our conference.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like they have improved... A man is going to die. By oxygen, by other, other, he may live for a few minutes more. They say, "This is improvement."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's creating more problems.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we read from the Fifth Canto the facility of life is so much better on other planets, anyway, so they can't even begin to imitate that other higher material planets, what to speak of the spiritual...

Prabhupāda: They do. Karmīs do that. They want to go there after death. Therefore karma-kāṇḍa. By ritualistic ceremonies they want to be promoted. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). By improving the sattva-guṇa, you can go to higher planetary system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would that be considered more intelligent than the gross...

Prabhupāda: No. No. Because after all, you have to die. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti. Again you have to come down.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to tell them that "We cannot completely negate the scientific advancement. We cannot simply say that what you are all doing is nonsense." At the same time, we can bring out that "Yes, you are doing, making an attempt to find a solution or comfortable situation. It's not possible," that "There must be something beyond. It's not enough."

Prabhupāda: And that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. That is the first citing. There are two kinds of occupational duty. The one is inferior, going down, and other is superior, go back to home.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he has a big target of eight or ten million people.

Mr. Myer: In twenty years all people have experienced. Poor, poor children, we'll have to give them(?).

Prabhupāda: Why poor children? Bring hundred children, I shall maintain. (break) There are many fathers. They cannot maintain even one child, what to speak of four children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't maintain any, because they don't have Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in In... They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?

Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That is not my proposal. Why shall I engage you in business, karma-bandhana? That is not. If you can give little service, that is benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. They are doing without any personal profit. You are gṛhastha. You can take some profit. That's all. But it is service. Anyone who will give some service to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he'll make progress. Therefore I'm trying to engage everyone in this movement some way or other. A little help, svalpam api. It is such a nice thing. With that spirit you do and live comfortably. There is no question of unnecessarily taking a life of poverty-stricken. There is no necessity. But there is no necessity of luxurious life. And luxurious will already come for devotees. That I have already example. Who can live more luxuriously than ourself? Where is that? It is practical. All over the world we are living like princes. Princes even cannot live like that. All our devotees, and what to speak of myself? Six crores of rupees one house, who can possess? How many men there are in the world who has got many houses, each six crores of rupees? Hm? Bolo.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another letter just came today about the property they want to purchase in Washington. Ambarīṣa wants to purchase?

Prabhupāda: Now this Ambarīṣa, Alfred Ford, he is prepared that "Here is two hundred seventy crores of rupees for you. You take it whenever you like." Two hundred seventy crores. He has got his property. He has offered, "You take it immediately, and I'll give you." So you are engaging that money to construct a huge building in Washington for showing this planetary system. What shall I do with the money, two hundred seventy crores? (chuckles) Three hundred million? No?

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nowhere is safe. Some boys may come and attack you and take... Nobody will... Is it not like that? Neither at home, neither on the road... You are not safe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imagine, in Māyāpur we have 250 devotees, and still they attacked.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we have 250 people. What family has 250 people? If 250 people and there's danger, then what to speak of a family man with only a few people in the family? That means they're ready to attack any number of people. There are so many dacoits.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore they came in number, three hundred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it was very organized, they said. At night they came.

Vrindavan De: They can refer the matter to the Home Department. He's the Home Minister, I think, that Jyoti Bose. He is Chief and Home. He's controlling the police powers and force. (Bengali) Take action.

Prabhupāda: They must be doing something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, there's no doubt. With Jayapatākā Mahārāja there...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Slow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Everywhere we go, people either know about you or they are very eager to find out about Kṛṣṇa and yourself by reading your books. Anyone who has distributed your books in the Communist countries will support my claim that nowhere in the world are people more appreciative of your books." He's been everywhere, Prabhupāda, and he says that your books are more appreciated in the Communist countries than anywhere else in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are hungry. (break) What to speak of saintly men. (break) ...honest, satisfied with simple living. Where do...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People don't even know those things at all.

Prabhupāda: Everyone was satisfied with simple living. They did not want much income.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now everyone is in anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Because they were Kṛṣṇa conscious, there was no anxiety.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That could be the only explanation. What about the Mussulmen?

Prabhupāda: They were also happy. They were also religious, according to their own way. Within, say, seventy years so much change has taken place. Horrible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any valuable, any benefits that took place? Any good things? Only...

Prabhupāda: Change, change for the worse.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How people were happy in those days. A small income, they were satisfied. Nowadays they simply want money. Nobody was unhappy even if he had very small income. He would adjust, and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things we have seen. I have seen that even the maidservant, what to speak of gentlemen. Where those days gone? And nobody was hungry. What is this nonsense civilization? Simply want of money and unsatisfied in every step. Especially in the Western countries they're becoming hippie. Why? The training is different.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we are being given a new training by you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've become happy. Actually, apart from the devotees, there are no happy people in the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am living still.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's so much to be done, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your activities are not completed yet. You have to install the Deities in Bombay, you have to live in your palace in New Vrindaban, you have to show varṇāśrama, you have to complete the Bhāgavatam, you have to live in a new house in Māyāpur, and we have to at least make a good start to begin the big temple in Māyāpur. Everything is still incomplete, what to speak of the fact that we are all very much neophyte still. We need you more than anything else. This movement has to last ten thousand years. We're not ready yet. We're still very much conditioned and contaminated. If you stay with us for another ten years at least, then there's chance that we can become purified more. And it's within your... It's within you to be able to do that. Kṛṣṇa will allow you to do that.

Prabhupāda: People are coming like before?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll have to start looking again, Śrīla Prabhupāda. My eyes have not been able to see everything very clearly in the last few days.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Due to your being in this condition, I am not seeing very... I've not been very alert to looking at those things because I was worried about you. Today I'll try to see.

Prabhupāda: No. In Māyāpur.

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Did you call for me?

Prabhupāda: What did you do with food? (?) (break)

Śatadhanya: Prasādam. And they have kīrtana. They are so-called communists. Actually Bengalis are devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Simply that they know your name is enough to purify all of Bengal, what to speak of if you remain present, the whole world will become completely flooded by kṛṣṇa-prema. That is why we are begging you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you remain with us for some time longer, because we are very weak and are still attached to material sense gratification. But if you are present, it is like a transcendental ocean.

Prabhupāda: There is some strain here. Why not make big or...? (soft kīrtana in Prabhupāda's room)

Upendra: You have some pain.

Prabhupāda: Not pain, but veins straining.

Upendra: Veins. Just here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Where is Bhakti-caru?

Devotees: Right here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Try... (Bengali)

Bhāgavata: Everyone is eagerly awaiting the new issues of your books all over the world. What to speak of the devotees, the scholars, the professors, the librarians, and just the general reading public who are patronizing your books, literally millions of people all over the world are eagerly awaiting new issues of your volumes. When the news gets out that you are again translating and that the new volumes of Tenth Canto will be available, everyone will be in ecstasy.

Prabhupāda: I have got some letters from New Vrindaban appealing for the books.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everybody appreciates, even the scientists, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhāgavata: Previously the scientists were turning away from their culture, 'cause no one was giving it purely. But Kṛṣṇa... By Kṛṣṇa's grace, by your grace, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are giving the Kṛṣṇa consciousness science of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam purely in this line of disciplic succession. So now it is becoming attractive again even to those who have already given it up, thinking it to be not useful. They are now finding it renewed and refreshed, and they are finding it, a renewed interest in all the Vedic literatures. And this is all by your power, all by your grace.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.

Bharadvāja: We also have a diorama here of Isaac Newton showing the model of the universe to his friend, and his friend says, "Oh, such a brilliant thing, such a wonderful model. Who has made this?" And he says, "Nobody. It just appeared here." And he makes his point that if such a small thing has taken so much intelligence and skill, then what to speak of the great universe that we see before us? How could it have come from nothing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ideas are there. If it is properly exhibited, it will be wonderful thing.

Bharadvāja: Then we have... We are showing that human and animal, they have the same activity basically. So what is the difference between man and animal? So we show in this diorama. And we also show that actually sometimes animals are superior to man because they sometimes have better senses. The dog can smell better, the elephant can eat more, and the pigeon can have more sex, etcetera. So, again, why is man considered superior if animals have better senses? So then the third point, we are showing that human life means responsibility.

Prabhupāda: No, vulture, from miles afar can find out where is a dead carcass.

Bharadvāja: Vulture. Very strong eyes. Right.

Prabhupāda: Strong eye, but looking third class. (Bharadvāja laughs)

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: Tataś ca brahmā moha (Sanskrit—to nipapātetāha)

Prabhupāda: Instead of defeating Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated. He could not understand what He was doing. Brahmā is the chief person within this universe. He became so much bewildered, what to speak of so-called scientists and philosophers. We should not make such attempt. The best thing is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). We should give up all our tiny efforts to defy the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Better whatever arrangement He is proposing, do like this. This is Bhagavad-gītā. That will make us happy. Is this clear?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then it says, (Sanskrit). So mohayan vatsa-bāla-steyena, "By stealing the vatsa and bālas," mohayitum upakramamāṇaḥ... Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, "Just beginning to try to make him illusioned." (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: I have already explained that.

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Instead of bewildering Kṛṣṇa, he became defeated.

Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-mohitasyāpi to mityarthaḥ)

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Śatadhanya: We all were thinking the same thing, that you look stronger, a little bit.

Bhavānanda: And also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your suggestion that you wanted to go on parikrama, we also thought, was an indication that you must be feeling a little stronger. In initial stage of taking this medicine it has to take some time before it even can begin to equalize a deteriorating situation, what to speak of making positive gains in strength. The medicine first has to act to stop the deterioration. Even that takes some time. Then, once it's equalized and maintain that, then it will work to build the body. If you're feeling, though, that you're deteriorating condition, then perhaps we shouldn't go on the parikrama this morning.

Prabhupāda: No, parikrama I shall go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You expected to immediately get some result by taking this makara-dhvaja?

Prabhupāda: I am already puzzled? Mixed-up.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said you're puzzled, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You said you're puzzled?

Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They'll believe?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, believe it or not, it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Fact, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I don't think these men like Bajaj or any of them could possibly make this much money even in material activities, what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, they lose money. They have to support it. But we have such a genuine religious movement that it supports itself. We don't require to construct big materialistic enterprises. We simply preach, and Kṛṣṇa supplies all the money.

Jayādvaita: Bajaj is just burdening the world with motorcycles, and you're providing the highest subject matter for hearing and chanting.

Prabhupāda: Where there is need of money, send there. I mean to say, just like Africa and other backwards... I am simply dreaming, and you are actually on the field.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are actually what?

Brahmānanda: On the field.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but that's because we're in your dreams. If you weren't dreaming like this, we would be on the material field.

Jayādvaita: It's like Mahā-Viṣṇu is lying down. The whole material world is being expanded by His dreaming. So you're lying down here, and the whole ISKCON activities are being expanded by your dreaming.