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What to speak of... (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not dead matter. The soul is there.

Bahulāśva: Suppose something, well, something like this shoe that I'm wearing...,

Prabhupāda: It is now dead matter. But when you go, the higher understanding, it is a composition of atoms. So we learn from Vedic śāstra that within the atom there is life. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). There is, there. If within the atom there is life, then what to speak of anything else.

Bahulāśva: That's a jīvātmā?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Govinda is there.

Bahulāśva: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa is there, then Kṛṣṇa is there with everything. Kṛṣṇa cannot be alone.

Bahulāśva: This is the real science, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vijñāna. Yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Jñānaṁ parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Is it not? Jñānaṁ me... "My knowledge is very confidential and it is full of science." Jñānaṁ parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. And in the Bhagavad-gītā there is said, "Knowing this knowledge..." Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. In the Vedas it is said, yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. So this is the way. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything will be known. (break) ...guhyaṁ pavitraṁ paramam idam. Eh? Bhagavad-gītā. Rāja-vidyā, the knowledge, the king of knowledge. (break)

Hanumān: Without your mercy, there's no way out of the dream of material life.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutāt. A brāhmaṇa having twelve brahminical qualifications... Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. A brāhmaṇa, well-learned, well-scholar, and just brahminical principles, strictly following, but if he is not a devotee, from him, one caṇḍāla is better. Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Why? Now, because that caṇḍāla has-caṇḍāla who is devotee caṇḍāla, not ordinary caṇḍāla—he has dedicated his mind, his body, his activities for the service of the Lord. Therefore he not only is purified, but he purifies the whole family, whereas a qualified brāhmaṇa, if he is not a devotee, he cannot purify himself, what to speak of purifying the family.

Dr. Patel: In the śruti also they mention that all those yogis and philosophers and, and other developed spiritually, if they have not, they have not been able to really realize what Kṛṣṇa or God is unless they have become bhaktas. But in this only it comes.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: In this particular part.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa...

Dr. Patel: I thought Bhāgavata was a book of stories, so I was not reading. I am so truthful to you. That is, I read all, I myself, more than half a dozen times all the, mean, twelve Upaniṣads. But I said, "Bhāgavata why?"

Prabhupāda: No, Bhāgavata is...

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Vedic injunction is gurum eva abhigacchet: "You must go to a bona fide spiritual master if you want to make your life perfect." There is no question whether I shall go or not. "You must!" That is the beginning of human life. Otherwise animal life. He has no spiritual master. He's not going to obey anyone. He's working in his own whims. That is animal life. Real life here begins.

tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet
samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
(MU 1.2.12)

This is the Vedic injunction. You cannot do anything without abiding the orders of spiritual master. That is surrender. How nice water it is. (break) And there are many thousands, you'll find. And we are thinking, "Oh, if I go away, who will feed my son? Who will feed my daughter?" He'll never think that "If so many animals are fed by the Supreme," eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "He's supplying all the necessity why not for me or for my other children?" It is māyā that one thinks that "Without me...," Just like Gandhi was thinking. Unless he was killed... He was always thinking, "Without me, India will be spoiled." India will be spoiled. It was spoiled. Therefore you wanted sva-rājya... And after his death, it is also spoiled. So India's karma will have to suffer, either Gandhi's there or not there. Prakṛteḥ kriya... Prakṛteḥ: Everything is being done by the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ, by, dictated by different modes of nature. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) The rascal, being bewildered by, he's thinking, "Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director!" So I requested Gandhi, "Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll be killed. That's all. This is the way. Going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya. The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That's all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That's a fact.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even the... Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ. Sura-gaṇāḥ means demigods, and what to speak of the rascals? How the rascals, simply by little educational qualification, can understand Kṛṣṇa?

Dr. Patel: Prabhavaṁ, the original. Prabhavaṁ.

Prabhupāda: No. Prabhavaṁ means influence, influence, prabhava.

Dr. Patel: Aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Now, just try to understand this. Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ (Bg 10.2). (Hindi) ...demigods, big, big demigods, they cannot understand Him. How the rascals with little education can understand? This is the meaning. Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ prabhavaṁ (Bg 10.2). How much influence... The maharṣayaḥ, big, big saintly ṛṣis also, they cannot understand. Aham ādir hi devānām. Devānām means the first devas: the Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So Viṣṇu is He Himself. Even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they do not know. Devānām.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: Usually, though, it is the children. They gamble for cookies and candy and things like this.

Prabhupāda: No, children they learn it from their parents. Otherwise they do not know. (break) ...by memory, by mercifulness... People are not so merciful now. Suppose in your presence somebody is being killed. You avoid to stand there. No more merciful. What to speak of the animals? If a man is killed, nobody will take care. I have heard it in America that if somebody is killed or attacked, nobody will go to help. Is it not?

Mahāṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the mercifulness has gone. And what to speak of religiosity? That is completely gone. These things will reduce: mercifulness, religiosity, memory, bodily strength, and so many, eight, eight. They are mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Religious principles.

Pañcadraviḍa: And you were writing that it is just a little bit of truthfulness is left.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You secure dhātun from the tree. Ask them. The three dhātun they gave, that is finished. (break) ...water is full, one can take bath.

Mahāṁsa: Swimming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. If you keep... A man is dead, and keep his body. So it will decompose, but the life will come. So many worms will come. So these are... If you say that chemicals, these material, then the chemicals are there, and life is coming. Now you take this chemical and prepare. You cannot say, "Although these chemicals are there, there is some deficiency. Therefore the life is not coming." No, why do you say like that? Life is coming. That man is not coming, but the life is coming. So these are ingredients for life. You prepare. You bring that man. Still, the rascal will say that life is made from matter. Not even gentlemen, what to speak of becoming scientist? You prepare. "No, in future we shall see." And he is getting Nobel Prize. Just see how the human society has become full of rascals, go-kharaḥ. They cannot prove; still they will insist, "Yes." And so far God is concerned, we learn from śāstra that God's two energies are working like heat and light. So energies are working, we can see. How these mangoes have come unless there is some energy? So therefore the energy is working. Therefore God is there. Just like as soon as light is there, although we are in the room we can understand that sunlight is there. As soon as the darkness is there, we understand that there is no more sun. So in the presence of energy... Just like in the motor car, before starting, you round the key, and it becomes, "Gut, gut, gut, gut." Now your current is there. The energy is there. So there are symptoms. By symptoms we can understand there is God. Where is the difficulty? And Kṛṣṇa is explaining, "Here, just see the symptom. The taste in the water I am." Then why do you say that you have not seen God? You are liar. You create that taste? Now take sea water and make that taste. Why do you take water from here and there? Sea water is there. Now you take it, and by chemical you create the taste. Why don't you? Therefore, unless God is there, you cannot do that, or God's sanction, you cannot do that.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion. "Whenever there is opportunity, I sleep and eat. And I have no time for chanting"—this is cheating. How long you can go on by cheating? You must finish it. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somebody, after initiation he promises, "Yes, I shall follow these rules and regulations. I shall chant sixteen rounds," before the fire, before the Deity, before the guru, and if he does not follow, then he is a cheater. What to speak of his becoming a Vaiṣṇava, he is a cheater. He breaks all his promises. Therefore after seeing, observing a person is doing everything, then say second initiation, or then he should not be recommended for second initiation unless the president and the other authorities see that he is doing nicely, he is following. Otherwise he should not be recommended. If he is recommended, that is also another cheating. If you know that this person is not following the rules and regulation, then why should you recommend him? Then it is another cheating. Viddhi-bhakti must be followed; otherwise it becomes sahajiyā. (break) ...Kerala?

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...to becomes angry by Kṛṣṇa is auspicious, auspicious. It is a very nice verse. "It is very auspicious that you have become angry upon him. He is getting salvation." (break) ...the punishment of Kṛṣṇa, one has to execute many pious activities in his past life, just to get the punishment of Kṛṣṇa. And what to speak of love of Kṛṣṇa, how much pious activities one has to do. If for being punished by Kṛṣṇa, one has to undergo lots of pious activities in the past life, then just see, to be loved by Kṛṣṇa, how much one has to undergo pious activities. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). That is described. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Puñja means heaps, volumes, volumes of pious activities. Then one can come to Kṛṣṇa. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Nobody can come to Kṛṣṇa unless he has background of pious activities and one who has become freed from all sinful activities. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. This is the qualification. (break)

Girirāja: ...some of our disciples, it is seems that in this life they did many sinful activities.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, north. So here, this is pūrva...

Indian Man (1): The rains will come from southwest.

Prabhupāda: Southwest, oh, yes.

Dr. Patel: It has not changed as yet. Still... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...even the sun, what to speak of other things, even the sun, the central point of this universe. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. It is also rotating in the orbit by order of Govinda. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...nama utila pi-asa nīre (?). Now, if you live on the ocean and if you are thirsty, you cannot drink a drop. You will have to die. Nīra kari vasa (?). Although the same water we are drinking. Is it not, Dr.?

Dr. Patel: Yes. Water, water everywhere, not a drop to drink.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same water drinking, but when it is purified by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa... You cannot drink. And still, you are scientist. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: One boy from engineers' school of technology here in Bombay has found out a method of...

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. He will turn one cup of seawater into sweet water and it will cost some hundreds of rupees.

Dr. Patel: That is right, but these fellows, they have found some natural way.

Prabhupāda: Well.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: ...will the state allow you to kill somebody and remain peacefully at home?

Richard Webster: Is it wrong to kill, to eat fish?

Prabhupāda: You cannot eat anything, even grass, without the sanction of God, what to speak of fish and others. You cannot eat even a piece of grass. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. You can simply enjoy after being sanctioned by God. Otherwise not. This is real philosophy. Everything belongs... Just like in this room, it is supposed that everything belongs to me. Even my students, they ask, "May I take this?" They have got right to take, but still, they ask. Similarly, you cannot touch anything—everything belongs to God—without His sanction. This is God consciousness.

Richard Webster: Yes, well, I wholly agree with that.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything...

Richard Webster: I entirely agree with that.

Prabhupāda: ...whimsically. It is not possible. Tena eva sa ucyate. If anyone does whimsically, then he becomes immediately thief. So you are a big philosopher. Kindly you spread...

Richard Webster: Very small philosopher.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't require that in every Veda there should be, because the Upaniṣads, they are impersonal study, negation of the material existence. That is negation. There is no positivity. So when you come to the positivity, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa.

goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu
te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.43)

So you cannot understand the goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya, the Goloka-nāmni planet, where it is. We do not know where is or how many planets are in this material world. (break) ...seeing very, very distant, ninety-three million miles away. But we have got little heat and light, we are satisfied. You see. But if you have got the capacity to run on..., just like they are trying to go to the moon planet, go to the sun planet... Actually it is a fact, this planet is in your front. Where can you go? Why? Why is it impossible to go? It is material. So you cannot go even the material planets, what to speak of the spiritual planets. So for them, this, this much knowledge, "Sunshine is light." That's all. Nothing more. They cannot understand with their poor brain.

Prof. Regamay: But I am struck that, for instance, for us in the West the idea of personal God is strongly rooted in our consciousness.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Satsvarūpa: On a morning walk in Los Angeles, Svarūpa Dāmodara said they are now going to produce babies in a test tube, and you said "But that's already being done in the womb. That's a very nice test tube." He said, "But he'll get a Nobel Prize." So that's the example. Nature's already doing it nicely. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...produce even a green grass like this in the laboratory, what to speak of other things.

Yogeśvara: If producing life was worthy of a Nobel Prize, then they should give every mother in the world a Nobel Prize.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (pause)

Yogeśvara: Actually, I think they should give you the Nobel Prize.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: You've been creating devotees.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I, I am natural dog, and they'll not give me prize. (laughs) They'll give prize to the artificial dog.

Yogeśvara: Bad imitation.

Satsvarūpa: (about statues?) There is that Pan god again, imitating Kṛṣṇa with a flute and standing like that.

Prabhupāda: And what is this?

Yogeśvara: He's naked, though.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to make him intelligent. Everyone is fool, mūḍha. Everyone within this material world is supposed to be a fool. Because everyone is thinking, "I am this body." So he's fool. "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am German," "I am Frenchman," "I am this," "I am that." What is the difference? A cat is thinking, "I'm cat." A dog is thinking, "I am dog." So if somebody thinks that, in relationship with the body, "I am Frenchman," "I am Englishman," "I am...", then where is the difference between the cat and the dog? He's thinking himself as this body. Therefore everyone is thinking, at least in this modern world, the so-called nationalism, everyone is thinking, "I am Englishman," "I am Frenchman," "I am Indian," "I am this," "black," "white." So everyone is fool. Is it not? Yes. He's thinking in a way what he is not. Therefore he's a fool. All these big, big political leaders, Napoleon, Hitler, Churchill, and in Europe , they fought with this consciousness, "I am Englishman," "I am German," "I am Frenchman." That's all. Even the big, big leaders, they are fools. And what to speak of common men?

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: In the United States, there are something called minority groups. Minority group means like the Irish or the Negroes, the Jews...

Prabhupāda: They're also fools. Minority fools. They're minority fools.

Yogeśvara: Minority fools?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he's thinking, "I am Irishman."

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Or like the politicians, they are afraid to speak because they are afraid that they will be voted out or get no more money to support their...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're after money. So they are less than śūdras. That is the cause that Christianity has fallen down, that they cannot speak straightly, or otherwise... It is straight commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." And because people are killing, they're... Now they are give man-to-man marriage, what to speak of other things. The priests, they are sermonizing this man-to-man marriage. Just see how degraded they have become. Whether any conception... At least, outside America, nobody knows that a man can be married with another man. What is this? And they're supporting it. You know that?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their standard?

Yogeśvara: Did he say anything before he left?

Jyotirmayī: Yeah, he said that he was in the, he was promulgating a law. So I asked him if he was going to help promulgate a law against cow-killing. So he said...

Prabhupāda: Now, this is our proposal, that why you should kill cow? Cow may be protected to take milk, and use this milk for so many nice preparations. Then, so far meat-eating is concerned, so every cow will die. It is a fact. So you wait a few days only. There will be so many dead cows. So you take all the dead cows and eat. So where is the bad proposal? If you say that "You are restraining us from meat-eating," no, we don't restrain you. We simply request you that "Don't kill. When the cow is dead, you eat it."

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: That was Prabhupāda's point that it's ironic that in modern societies men are called professors, or being proficient in knowledge, but yet they're ignorant of the soul, which is the most basic knowledge, the most fundamental knowledge. According to the Vedic system, Indian system, even a most ignorant man knows about the soul, what to speak of the great learned sages. But in this society, western society, the so-called learned men—they're supposed to be the topmost learned men—they don't even know of the soul. Therefore they're not even in the class of an ignorant man. They're lower than even ignorance.

Prabhupāda: And according to Vedic understanding, one who does not understand what is soul—he identifies himself with this body—he is animal.

Church Representative: This is also a fundamental idea of Christian spiritual. (French)

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13), and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national, not outside that, sva-dhīḥ, "They are my own men." sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul? (French)

Yogeśvara: He understands English.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just in the beginning Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." That is the beginning of religious life. The animal killers cannot understand what is God. It is not possible. There is a statement in the Bhāgavata, viṇa paśughnat.

nivṛtta tarṣair upagīyamānād
bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
ka uttamaśloka guṇānuvādāt
pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
(SB 10.1.4)

"Who can remain aloof from the chanting of the holy name of God unless he's an animal killer?" Yes. Animal killers cannot understand what is God, what is God's name. That's not possible. (pause) Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of killing animal, He was embracing animal every morning, every... Yes. He was embracing.

Haṁsadūta: But Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Don't come near. (German translation)

Guest (1): And also the holy Francis of Assisi was in relation with all animals in the Christian tradition.

Prabhupāda: In Christian tradition there is everything nice, but nobody's following. That is the difficulty. (break) ... portion of the road is not paved like this. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Both the man and animals will live prosperously when there is sufficient foodgrain. (break) ...at anna-sambhavaḥ. If there is sufficient rainfall, the production of foodgrains will be very easy. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And if you satisfy the Lord by performing yajña, then there will be sufficient rain. And yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. And our activities should be only to perform yajña, to satisfy the Lord.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You are old student.

Bhūrijana: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: If you still cannot understand what is my instruction, then how can I help you? New students may say like that. You are intelligent, educated, old student. If you say... (long, silent pause) Our movement is that beginning of spiritual life is to surrender. If there is no surrendering, then it is no advance. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the beginning. If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement. That is discussed already. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ gatiḥ. This is the beginning of spiritual life. The word is called disciple. Disciple means who accept discipline. If there is no discipline, where is disciple? And "disciplic succession." We have used this word. Not that discipline is finished by one man, no. It will continue to go by succession. That is perfect.

evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
sa kāleneha (mahatā)
yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
(BG 4.2)

Find out this verse. As soon as the disciplic succession is missing, then everything is lost.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Cheat means that I am exploiting you. I am saying that I am creating you a religious, but you are most sinful. I am creating a most sinful. That is cheating.

Guru-kṛpa: Giving something under false pretensions.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are taking something else while thinking something else. That is cheating. Actually, we see the so-called religious system... Religion means to become lover of God. But who is lover of God? Do not know what is God, and what to speak of love Him. They do not know, have no clear conception of God even.

Jayatīrtha: They are lovers of dog.

Prabhupāda: And actually they are lovers of dog. And still, he's professing "I am religious." This is not cheating.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, it's cheating. Imposter.

Prabhupāda: Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Unless one becomes a devotee of God, there is no question of religion. It is all cheating. By opening hospital, schools,... There are thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years, the hospitals and schools are being opened, philanthropy. What is the result?

Bali Mardana: Atom bombs.

Prabhupāda: Atom bomb. Result is atom bomb.

Hṛdayānanda: You're the only one, Prabhupāda, who dares to criticize hospitals and schools. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many people came to request me... Even Dr. Ghosh. Eh? You know.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that in the society women, working class, and the mercantile class, they are, according to Vedic scripture, they are less intelligent, women, working class and mercantile men. Just like mercant..., they are after money, that's all. And śūdra, they want, after job. And women means they are after fulfilling their material desires. They have no other idea, that there is Brahmān, one should know Brahmān... They do not care to know. Therefore they are called śūdras, stri, śūdra, vaiśya. Yes. Vaiśya. So Kṛṣṇa says,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
(BG 9.32)

So it is not blocked for anyone. Anyone can get Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anyone can go back to home, back to Godhead, provided you follow the regulative principle. Then it is possible for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's woman, whether he's working class, whether he's a śūdra or a brāhmaṇa. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Even they can go. And what to speak of the brāhmaṇas?" Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ... (BG 9.33). If the brāhmaṇas, they cultivate spiritual knowledge, it becomes very easy for them. Even they can go, śūdras, stri, vaiśya. These are all the statement.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So the driver is not in order—he may create disaster at any moment. So the insanity is not of the car, but the insanity is of the driver. So when we feel problems of the humanity, it means the insanity of the soul, not of the body. And because the driver, or the soul, is not taken care of, therefore so many problems are coming in the body. Just like, if one man takes care of hygienic principle, his bodily ailments are less, similarly, if the driver is kept in proper sanity, then there will be no accidents in the car. Another example: just like the bird in, the cage. If you take care of the cage only and do not supply any food to the bird, it will cry, "Tanh! Tanh! Tanh! Tanh!" (aside to devotee:) This gentleman comes. Give him a seat. So the problem is: if we don't take care of the driver or the bird in the cage, the human problems will not diminish, it will increase. Keeping the car in good order does not mean taking care of the driver. And if you don't take care of the driver, the disasters of the car will increase. So what is the program of taking care of the driver? Factually, they do not know what is the driver. And what to speak of taking care of it? This is the problem, real problem. Do you think it is all right or not?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that these points are actually common to many different philosophies, and he feels there are many different ways and many different philosophies for passing our time in this temporary life.

Prabhupāda: So he is interested only on the temporary life. Never mind. There may be disaster.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): As a doctor, he says he is naturally interested in this life in the problems of the body, but he also feels that a human being should follow whatever philosophy he chooses in order to achieve what one may call the spiritual world or eternal happiness.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tripurāri: So our men also are going out and preaching...

Prabhupāda: The overloaded.

Dhīra-kṛṣṇa: When we take your books on the library party to the professors at the universities... (fades out)

Śrutakīrti: This way? Śrīla Prabhupāda, Śrīla Prabhupāda... (break)

Prabhupāda: I am surprised how I have written so many, what to speak of them? (laughter) It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Dhīra-Kṛṣṇa: One professor the other day was trying to convince one of our boys that you were coming in the disciplic succession and were authorized to translate all these books.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right.

Dhīra-Kṛṣṇa: Because he was dressed and he didn't know that he was your disciple, so he was saying, "Bhaktivedanta Swami, he is coming in a disciplic line straight from Kṛṣṇa. That's why he can speak on all these books."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. That authority I have got. That's a fact. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ prakaśānte (ŚU 6.23). They become manifest, all the meanings of the Vedic literature. Yasya deve parā bhaktiḥ. (aside:) Don't come very near. (break) ...explaining last evening. Don't speculate, hear. That is the qualification. All others, they are simply speculating. How long their energy will go on, limited energy? How speculating will help them? It is not possible. It is condemned.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Why you shall listen to me? The Bhagavad-gītā is there.

Dr. Movebhed: But you are an insider.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna. Then you will understand. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśi, one who has seen the truth, he can enlighten you. This is the process. Otherwise, even Gandhi, Dr. Rādhākrishnan, Vivekānanda, all they have committed mistake. Aurobindo. Aurobindo has understood little to some extent, but not fully. But if we are fortunate enough, then we can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, there is no more superior truth than Me."

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no, no. He...

Indian man: Śaṅkarācārya, when he writes on this Bhagavad-gītā, he gives...

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkarācārya says sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. You refer to the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā of Śaṅkarācārya. So in the beginning he says, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt avyaktād anya-sambhavaḥ. So he has explained. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. And what to speak of other ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya... They accept, all, Kṛṣṇa. Madhvācārya... They worship Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa may have many forms, that is accepted. But that form, Kṛṣṇa, He is God. That you have to accept. You cannot deny that.

Guest: He was asking something. Your question was?

Guest (2): I thought when some people say that it wasn't very important to know whether Kṛṣṇa was living or not, they talk to Kṛṣṇa as a historical fact, as an individual, as a person who lived within the framework of time and space. Kṛṣṇa as an individual, as a historical person, might not even important, as they said Aśoka(?) or Christ or...

Prabhupāda: (Aside to devotee:) You come here. I do not follow the accent, you hear and tell.

Guest: What would be important was Kṛṣṇa teachings. One must, could not be confined to any one period of time. He is incarnation of God and somebody who was talking for the truth and in the name of the truth, and... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good. If you have got different theory, you can write in a different book. But we cannot permit or do not like that as the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā you will place something different.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Because they do not know how to stop this process. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. You can stop this. But these... Again rascals. They'll not take the method. Kṛṣṇa said that "If you simply try to understand Me," janma, "why I appear and why I come here and work," karma..., "they are divine." The divine nature of Kṛṣṇa's appearance, disappearance and activities, if one can understand, then immediately he becomes free from this process. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). But the rascals will not do that. They'll misunderstand Kṛṣṇa. They'll misdescribe Kṛṣṇa. They'll think, "Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man." Gandhi will say that "I don't think there was any person living as Kṛṣṇa." And he is mahātmā. These things are going on. Mahātmā is proving himself as the greatest rascal. This is your mahātmā, and what to speak of the durātmā. So you are being guided by these...

Guest (2): A lot of people in... Before I came to your temple in Toronto, in our family nobody is eating any meat. When I went West, I got it some, this point, and I was misguided by the different philosophies. So lot of misguiding and misled...

Prabhupāda: That is my rascaldom. Why I shall be misguided? I must know who is the right person.

Guest (2): They are fallen from. A lot of people in India, they have all misguided and misleading, their own adjusted, their own...

Prabhupāda: I have to gather knowledge from my superior. (Bengali) You came last night?

Guest (2): Ah, no, last evening.

Prabhupāda: Oh, last evening? What is your...?

Guest (2): He told to come at nine o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. What do you want to say?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. They are thinking God a person like me, like himself. That is foolishness. They cannot conceive that a person can become so powerful than myself. That is the defect. A person has acintya-śakti, acintya-śakti, inconceivable power. Now, just like you are person. You cut your hair. It is growing. Do you know how it is growing?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Even it is beyond your conception, what to speak of others. But it is growing. It is... If there is any scar or if the nail is broken some way or other, it will come out. But... You cannot manufacture it by conceiving. But it is coming out. That means within you there is an inconceivable power. So if you have got, an ordinary human being, so much inconceivable power, how much God has got inconceivable power. That is God.

Haṁsadūta: In Los Angeles, you called it mystic power, that every living creature has some mystic power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every living creature.

Trivikrama: You gave the example of a lemon tree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mystic power producing tons of citric acid.

Trivikrama: Citric acid.

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ramana Maharshi, yes, I am speaking of Ramana Maharshi. He never preached about Kṛṣṇa's superexcellent position, never preached. This is going on. Everyone is taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and he's preaching in his own way, foolish way. "Own way" means foolish way. This is going on. You cannot... Suppose you have got your philosophy, but you cannot take my book and preach your philosophy. If you have got philosophy, you write your philosophy. Why do you take advantage of my book and misinterpret? This is cheating. Because my book is very popular, you take advantage of my book and preach your own nonsense philosophy. This is going on. If you want to smoke ganja, you smoke in your own hand. Why you capture my hand and smoke? What is this? So the ganja-smelling will be in my hand, not in your hand. This is going on. Why do they take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and preach their nonsense philosophy? That is our protest. You preach your nonsense philosophy. We have no objection. But don't touch Bhagavad-gītā. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. What is the... Do you think it is honesty that you want to preach something of your own philosophy and you take advantage of my book and mislead others? Is that very good, honest business? This is going on. This is going on, very dangerous position. In our country, and what to speak of other countries, all these swamis, yogis, and politicians, and scholars, they are doing like this. Very dangerous position. Why should you touch Bhagavad-gītā? You speak, you preach, your own philosophy. There are so many philosophies. But our only objection is that "Why should you preach your nonsense philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā?" Do you think it is right?

Guest (1): It's not right.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): It's not right.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But do you hear it? As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra hundreds of persons, they'll have to hear it. Ask them not to hear it. You go, you scientists, (indistinct) ...don't hear it. They hear it. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But your music is of one chanting is very limited. Chanting...

Prabhupāda: First of all you finish this limited, then you go to unlimited. You have no experience of this limited, what to speak of the unlimited. Kṛṣṇa has described you mūḍhās, and you have taken (indistinct) are mūḍhās. (indistinct) ...to have to take credit in so many way that our conclusion is following the footsteps of Kṛṣṇa. You are all mūḍhās.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like some people may express God by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa but we can also express God through our musical talent. (break)

Prabhupāda: You decorate God so nicely (indistinct) ...art painting, everything. They, putting art, so many thing, (indistinct). There's no scarcity of art painting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are trying to attain the Supreme through our own music. We are doing that through our own mus...

Prabhupāda: No. That is... That is another nonsense. We are trying to please the Supreme by the Supreme music. Golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. These sounds are not (indistinct) These are Vaikuṇṭha songs. Nārada muni bājaya vīṇā rādhikā-ramaṇa nāme. It is words by Nārada Muni. It is not manufactured here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Don't you think that the great musicians like Bach, they were inspired by God to make this music.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is no law; it is all lusty desire. All law or no law, these are all nonsense. The śāstra has... It is lusty desire, that's all. Everyone wants to fulfill a lusty desires. So unless one is not in the modes of goodness or transcendental, everyone will like. That is the material world, rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamo-bhāvaḥ kāma-lobhadayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). It is all discussed in the śāstra. Just like I am hungry man. There is foodstuff. I want to eat it. So if I take by force, that is illegal, and if I pay for it, then it is legal. But I am the hungry man, I want it. This is going on. Everyone is lusty. Therefore they say "legalized prostitution." They want it. So marriage is something legalized, that's all. The passion and the desire is the same, either married or not married. So this Vedic law says, "Better married. Then you will be controlled." Married life... So he will not be so lusty as without married life. So the gṛhastha life is a concession-same lusty desire under rules and regulation. That's all. That is our higher... (?) Without married life he will commit rapes in so many ways, so better let him be satisfied with one, both the man and woman, and make progress in spiritual life. That is concession. Everyone in this material world has come with these lusty desires and greediness. Even demigods like Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā... The Lord Brahmā became lusty after his daughter. And Lord Śiva became so mad after Mohinī-murti. So what to speak of us insignificant creatures. So lusty desire is there. That is material world. Unless one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, this lusty desire cannot be checked. It is not possible.

Devotee (1): So how is it that Lord Brahmā is a pure devotee...

Prabhupāda: No, he is not pure devotee.

Devotee (1): He's not.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is in the material world, he is not pure devotee. He has to become a pure devotee. But there are pure devotees. They come. They are not subjected to all this. They come for the deliverance of the fallen souls. They are above Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society. Otherwise in the Hindu society separation between husband and wife is not even dreamt of. That, it cannot be. However there may be quarrelsome, but there is no question of separation. Husband and wife, they fight, everywhere. I have seen. My father and mother was fighting. I fought. (laughter) But there is no question of separation. Separation, they never think. Neither the husband can think of, nor the wife can think of. Even in the life of Gandhi there was fight between husband and wife, and the Gandhi one day drove his wife, "Get out from my home." So she was put into the street, and she began to cry, "Where shall I go?" And then Gandhi ans..., "Come on." Yes. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. The husband and wife may fight. It becomes a very serious thing, but don't take of it as serious. This is Hindu philosophy. Husband and wife quarrel should not be taken as very serious. They fight and again they live peacefully. Why this divorce? The divorce mean it kills the whole family life. The children goes away; the father goes away; the mother goes away. I have seen so many cases.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...if there is government laws, if you do not know it and you act independently, then you are making your life risky. So this is the case of the government law, and what to speak of God's law, nature's law, how strict it is. You can avoid government's law, but you cannot avoid nature's law. That is not possible. So that is the defect of the modern civilization: they do not know how nature is working, and they are keeping themself in ignorance, and they are suffering, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one body after another. And if he becomes a tree, stand up for five thousand years. And we have to pass through all these stages. He has come to the human form of body. Still he neglects. He continues suffering. They are mad after sense enjoyment; and accepting different material bodies, that means suffering. As soon as you accept a material body, this is suffering. But the suffering of the trees is more suffering. In a forlorn place he stand up for five thousand years and tolerate all the blast, wind, scorching heat, water.

He doesn't know that "I may become a tree like this." Then he must be... Why there are varieties of life? This is different type of punishment for different kinds of sinful activities. And he doesn't care for sinful activities. He got the human form of body, he doesn't care. Saintly persons, they are coming as Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Buddha or Christ. They are warning, "You do not do this." No, they will do it. So who is responsible for his sufferings? He is responsible. And so long he has got this short duration of life, fifty or sixty years or utmost hundred years, he is thinking, "I am free. Whatever I want, I can do," and making life risky. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. He is not independent. He knows that. Still, he will declare independence and suffer. This is the position. He is not independent; that he knows very well. But still, he will act independently. Is it not the position? Who can think that he is independent unless he is a madman? Hmm? Are you independent?

Devotee (1): No.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But he could not finish it. So this is his intelligence. Such a big man, Napoleon, that is his intelligence. And what to speak of others. Everyone knows that "I will have to die," and when death will come, nobody knows. At any moment it may come. So he will not be able to enjoy what he is doing, but still, he is doing. And his real business is forgotten. His real business is to stop his birth and death process and go back to home, back to Godhead. That is his real business. He does not know the real... Therefore they are called mūḍhas. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). So it is a civilization of the mūḍhas, fourth-class men.

Devotee (1): Should the devotees think that "Any moment, I can die"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Why they will think? It is a fact. There is English proverb, "There is many dangers between the cups and the lips." You are going to drink tea. The distance is: here is cup and here is lip. There may be many dangers. So suppose in drinking tea there is some choking within the throat, and coughing, you may die immediately. You are so much under the control of nature. Little mistake will cause your death, little mistake. And conditioned life means we commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat, and our knowledge is imperfect. This is conditioned life.

Amogha: I telephoned that geographer yesterday to talk to him, and he said that "What Swamiji said was true, but how can...?" He said, "It will be very difficult to apply because most people, they are not interested." But he says it was very... He could understand that was true, what you were saying. He may also come again to talk more.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Gurukṛpa: But his family will have it for generations.

Prabhupāda: Well, family men... When you are diseased, you do not say, "My family is there. Don't call for a physician. I am happy." That you do not say. You call for a physician. Your family cannot help you. And what to speak of death? That is another foolishness. When you fly in the sky with your friends and family and when there is danger, nobody can save you. You will drop down. Everyone is flying. Even airplane, if there is some accident in the airplane, what the other airplane can do? If the ship is drowning, what other ship can do? You are drowning; you must drown. There is no question of "my friends and relatives." That is described in the Bhāgavatam. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu ātma-śainyeṣu. He is thinking, "They are my soldiers. They will give me protection." Ātma-śainya. Śainya means soldier. Asatsv api. It is false, but he is thinking like that. That is foolishness. When you have to fly, you have to fly on the strength of your wings, own wings, not your son's wings or daughter's wings or... That will not help you. Svakarma-phala, phala-bhuk. You have to enjoy or suffer according to your own activities.

Gurukṛpa: But, you see, you want us to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but we're a joint family, and I have to ask the permission of my elder brother, and if he says no, then I can't do it.

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. Why you should take permission of your father or mother? Your business is your business. Why you are thinking like that, "I have to take permission of mother, my wife, my children"? And who will give you permission? Nobody will give you. You have to take your own permission. That is the way. You have to think that "Now, what is the use of taking their permission? When I am in danger, will they save me?" Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. "When I will die, they can save me? Then why shall I take their permission?" That is intelligence. Nature does not depend on your wife's or father's and relatives' permission. She does not care.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that beyond the senses, the mind is there. Beyond the mind, the intelligence is there. Beyond the intelligence, the soul is there. So they are studying the mind. They are not even on the intelligence platform, and what to speak of spiritual platform? Mano-rathena asato dhavato, bahiḥ. These rascals, those who are on the mental plane, they will remain materialists. That's all. They will not know, understand anything spiritual.

Harikeśa: So even if someone were to read the results of such a test, it would not convince them.

Prabhupāda: What...? What you...?

Siddha-svarūpa: They're testing after a material thing. Try to understand it. They're testing the mental plane and they're thinking that that's the spiritual plane.

Prabhupāda: Their position is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. These rascals, avajānanti, I mean to say, cares a fig for Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is also a very big man, that's all." Just the Arya Samaji says in India, that "We don't accept Him as God, but He is a very big man, a very big politician, like that." So that is described in the Bhagavad..., avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). The paraṁ bhāvam, what is the actual significance, that is, they do not know. What is the actual significance of the soul and soul platform, spiritual..., that they do not know. They are studying from the mental platform. So they have to go beyond mental platform, avāṅ mānasa-gocara, beyond bodily mental platform. Then they will understand.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me. There is no question of becoming friend because everyone is selfish. He wants his personal benefit, so how he can become other's friend? This is false. By false pretension, he is occupying big, big post and taking money for his sense gratification. That's all. This is material world. And to keep up his position he is proclaiming, that "I am your friend." Just like when Nixon was being elected: "America needs Nixon now." (laughter) I have seen that signboard. And then again it became, "America needs to kick out." (laughter) This is going on. This is cheating. Both of them are cheater. Those who elected him, he is also cheater, and who became elected, he is also cheater. So this is the society of cheaters and cheated. The so-called human society means the society of the cheaters and cheated. One man is cheated, another man is cheater, and alternately he is also cheated and others are cheated. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...in India up country. Up country, in northern India. It is very good health, Punjab, because up country. (break) ...place Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says,

māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham

A man who hasn't affectionate mother at home, neither very good wife, so he should immediately give up that home and go to the forest because for him it is as good, either you remain in forest or in home." (chuckles) How intelligent.

māṭā yasya gṛhe nāsti
bhāryā cāpriya-vādinī
aranyaṁ tena gantavyaṁ
yathāranyaṁ tathā gṛham

(break) ...formerly at least one expected love from mother. That is also being finished. This is the advancement of civilization. Even mother is also not reliable, what to speak of others. A small child sleeps very sound on the lap of the mother because it thinks, "Now I am safe." And the mother is killing child. This is the advancement of civilization. (break) ...has been many cases, a polluted woman has killed his child on account of paramour. In India there have been many cases, killed a grown up child. In recently one of our Godbrother's wife. You know that?

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Reporter (2): What is the secret to learning to love God?

Prabhupāda: Secret of learning God?

Jagadīśa: Learning to love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The secret—that he must be a first-class man. Otherwise he does not understand what is God, and what to speak of loving Him.

Reporter (3): What is the definition again of a first-class man?

Prabhupāda: First-class man? Where is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Brahmānanda: Bhagavad-gītā, they did not bring.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is the nonsense? You are all nonsense. First-class man, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that he should first of all try to..., not try, practice how to control the mind, how to control the senses. Then he must be truthful. He must be very clean, outside and inside. He must be very simple. He must be tolerant. He must be full of knowledge. He must apply knowledge in practical life. And he must believe in God. These are the qualification of the first-class man.

Reporter (2): Once a person is trained in one of the classes, can he move to another class once he's been trained as, say, a third-class man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any class man, you can train him. It requires training. Even one is in the last-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, sixth-class, if he likes he can be trained up to become a first-class man.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Christ consciousness is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but people do not follow the rules and regulations of Christianity. Therefore they are not awakened. The commandments of Christ, they do not follow. Therefore they do not come to the standard of consciousness.

Sandy Nixon: What is unique about Kṛṣṇa consciousness that separates it from other religions? If it's a religion.

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: And I think this man has many wives. He has about two dozen wives. These are all his wives. He's in jail now. Life sentence. (break)

Prabhupāda: There is no problem.

Brahmānanda: Yes. He was saying, "Oh, it's just a distraction." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the President's life is not safe, and there is no problem. What to speak of others.

Dhanañjaya: An intelligent man will go completely insane because he can't solve the problems...

Prabhupāda: The solution is there.

Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.

Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)

Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Although Arjuna is... Birth after birth, he is friend of Kṛṣṇa, nitya-siddha. Still, he forgets, what to speak of others. Bahūni me janmāni tava cārjuna. That means, "We are friends always. So you also appear; I also appear. But the difference is you forget; I don't forget. That is difference between you and Me. You also don't forget. That is for limited time. But the consciousness is the same. Only difference is that My consciousness is unlimited; your consciousness is limited. That is difference." This understanding is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. My consciousness and Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, that is fact. But Kṛṣṇa's consciousness is everywhere; my consciousness is within myself. That's all. The Māyāvādī interprets, yena sarvam idaṁ tataḥ: "One who is expanded everywhere, pervaded." But I am not pervading everywhere.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say when you become liberated then you become..., then you pervade everywhere. It's just that... They say that just now, in this position...

Prabhupāda: So when you will be liberated? What is the standard of liberation?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: By performing austerities, by studying the...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is the standard?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: When I merge, when I lose my identity, when I don't...

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...mandāḥ, all bad men. Mandā sumanda-matayaḥ. And if he is supposed to be a good man, he will manufacture some mata, manda-mata, not approved by the śāstras. This is going on. They will not hear Kṛṣṇa. They will give quotation from Brahma-kumārī. This is the greatest defect of modern civilization, that they won't accept real authority. They will create some authority. Or rascal, he becomes authority. Especially in India, this is the drawback. In the Western countries they do not know much about this. Therefore they accept what I say. But here they bring so many. So such an important man, he is bringing authority, Brahma-kumārī, a house of prostitution. If he is bringing their quotation as authority, then what to speak of others? (break) Just like that Christian convent house. They supply woman to rich men, and they supply money. That's all. This is Brahma-kumārī. Rich man, the same disease is there—yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. So if they get facility for some maithuna, they will give you money. (Hindi) ...prostitute, for convent house. Hm? Brahmānanda? Convent house? What is that convent house? It is not prostitution? That's all.

Brahmānanda: Usually it's between the priests and the nuns.

Prabhupāda: Unless one is actually spiritually situated, this material center of happiness, maithunādi, that will go anywhere. You give any color, spiritual or religious or political. You see? Why Gandhi's āśrama failed? Do you know that? This is... When Gandhi was in jail, when he came back he saw all pregnant. You did not know that?

Kartikeya: No, we imagined, but we don't have information.

Prabhupāda: That what... Gandhi said, "What is this āśrama?"

Indian man (1): No, but Gandhi... He is well known, very well known.

Prabhupāda: He is well known.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not only that. They write Satya-artha-prakāśa. That means they have understood the real meaning, and all the ācāryas, they are fools. That is their intelligence, satya-artha-prakāśa, that so long there was no satyārtha; now they have invented satyārtha. This is their intelligence.

Dr. Patel: So Vaiṣṇava ācāryas have actually... I mean, through bhakti people realize the presence of God everywhere.

Prabhupāda: No, no. In comparison to Vaiṣṇava ācāryas... Apart from the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they have done nothing even like me, what to speak of the ācāryas. I am only a servant and a servant of the ācāryas. They could not do anything. They admit. Real Arya-samājīs, they admit that, that "What was our program, you have executed."

Dr. Patel: In Punjab there was lot of Muslim hierarchy, and that is what they wanted, that... Arya-samājīs.

Prabhupāda: But we are not against any "ism," either Muslimism or Christianism. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we never preach against anyone.

Dr. Patel: It was a socio-economic problem or socio-political, not a religious problem.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but we never criticize anyone. When the Christians come forward—"Whether our Christian religion can also give the same meaning"—"Yes, why not?" Yes.

Dr. Patel: It has the same bhakti.

Prabhupāda: I never said...

Dr. Patel:ut I think the Christianity is nothing but bhāgavata-dharma. It has been preached in a different way.

Prabhupāda: They inquire, "What is your opinion of Jesus Christ?" And "He is our guru."

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: First of all you improve your own condition; then think of future generation. You are going to hell and thinking of future generation. You are going to die, and you are thinking of future generation. Who is your future generation? That is another foolishness. This is asuric civilization. Asuric civilization.

Cyavana: Hope against hope.

Prabhupāda: Hope, that is also foolishness. Apart from future generation, you have got sons. So you are taking very great care. Does it mean that his life is guaranteed? So what you can do? You cannot do anything for your present generation, what to speak of future generation. You cannot do. Suppose your son is sick. As father, you have given first-class medicine, first-class physician. Does it guarantee that he will live? Then what can you do? Is it in your control that your son will live because you have given good physician, good medicine? Is it guarantee that your son will live? Then what can you do? You cannot do anything for your present generation, and you are thinking of future generation, which you do not know, who is your future generation. At the present moment you know this is your generation, you cannot do anything, and you are thinking of future generation. How foolish you are.

Cyavana: Well, we may have to accept the laws of nature, but at least we can...

Prabhupāda: And therefore, what is the meaning of taking care of future generation or this generation?

Cyavana: At least we can make it comfortable in this world.

Prabhupāda: No. That is not possible. You have already given good medicine, good physician. And why he is dying? You cannot do anything. That is your position. You may try to do, but that is futile. Ultimate is different.

Cyavana: So by giving him medicine, maybe I can give him a better chance...

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Gallons of blood, waste.

Cyavana: In what way?

Prabhupāda: By talking with him, with the rascal and foolish. You tax your brain and spoil your energy, blood.

Harikeśa: Spend so much food.

Cyavana: So we should do that.

Prabhupāda: Unless you are not a preacher. You should be prepared. Yes. They cuts, sacrifices life, what to speak of wasting blood. Wasting life. This is preacher. Then he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa: "He has done so much for Me."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa will give more and more energy.

Prabhupāda: He is going to die for Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is recognized. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). You become immediately very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Your business is how to become very intimate to Kṛṣṇa. That will be served by preaching.

Cyavana: Would you like to hear this verse?

Room Conversation with Reporter of The Star -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Capacity of the container. This is described in the Bhāgavata and the Caitanya-caritāmṛta also. Kṛṣṇa śakti vina nahe kṛṣṇa nāme pracāra: "Without Kṛṣṇa's special power of attorney, nobody can preach His name." Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So these rascals, Godbrothers, they are envious that... What he has written? Bon Mahārāja. Just see what kind of men they are. They are not even ordinary human being. They are envious of me, and what to speak of make a judgment by estimation? They're envious. Enviousness is immediately disqualification of Vaiṣṇava, immediate. He is not a human being. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ (SB 1.1.2). This Bhāgavatam is meant for the person who is completely not envious. That is the beginning. Why a Vaiṣṇava should be envious for anyone? Everyone is working according to his karma. He is trying to rectify him, that "Be out of these clutches of karma. You come to bhakti." Why he should be envious? Vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca. A Vaiṣṇava should be like ocean of mercy to reclaim the fallen souls. That is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. So Vaiṣṇava should be envious? Just see. So these persons, they are not even human being, what to speak of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava cannot be envious. Vaiṣṇava should be: "Oh, my Lord's name is being broadcast. He is getting, giving so much service to make Kṛṣṇa known." That man has appreciated, that "All these spiritual leaders, they are deriding. You are the only man... You are... It enthuses us, give us more encouragement, that you are keeping intact, love of Kṛṣṇa." This is an appreciation. Why he should be envious? He should be, rather, very much enthused that "This single man is keeping Kṛṣṇa all over the world." And everyone is deriding. Even Gandhi is killing Kṛṣṇa. Dr. Radhakrishnan is killing. Their only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. He is also doing that, our, this Bon Mahārāja. He never speaks of Kṛṣṇa. His rascal, that Institute of Indian Philosophy, nobody goes to urine(?) there. We see practically. And our temple is always filled up, five hundred men. And he is trying for the last forty years. He is simply planning: "This will be playground. This will be this ground. This will be this ground." And it is becoming jungle. Still, he is so envious, black snake. So one circular letter should be issued to all our center, that "Any Bon Mahārāja or anyone, his representative, should not be received." They are envious. Yes. Quoting that. We have got several complaints like that. Satsvarūpa also complained. Sometimes our order was cancelled by Bon Mahārāja's propaganda.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is another sign of their rascaldom, that they don't accept that all of their endeavors to maintain the body will be defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are seeing, experiencing. History never says that any man has become immortal, even Hiranyakasipu, and what to speak of these small demons. A great demon like Hiranyakasipu, he could not, and what to speak of these tiny demons? One kick is sufficient to kill them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They never say that.

Prabhupāda: The European lady will never take a burden on head like this, but Indians, they do. Even respectable family woman, they also carry on the head. You will find many Gujarati. Simple living is natural.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How is it that the Europeans especially, they have become the vanguard of rascal culture?

Prabhupāda: Because they are rākṣasas. They are eating meat and drinking wine and illicit sex. Rākṣasa civilization. Hiraṇyakaśipu means... Hiraṇya means gold, and kaśipu means soft bed. To learn, this is rākṣasa civilization. They are searching after soft bed and gold mine, hiraṇya.

Devotee (2): We have some guests.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aiye. How do you know we have come here?

Indian (3): Well, Kṛṣṇa's grace showed me you were here.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It may require... No, I said that "If you are equal rights, then make some arrangement: sometimes you become pregnant; sometimes he becomes pregnant. Why there is not right, equal right?"

Indian man: She was telling me when... She... I said that "Prabhupāda sometimes says these things that we feel all ashamed, you know, because..."

Devotee (2): The medicine is not always palatable for these people.

Prabhupāda: But in speaking spiritual understanding we cannot make any compromise. What to speak of in Mauritius, in Chicago I told. There was great agitation in papers.

Harikeśa: In the TV, on television.

Indian man: Same thing?

Devotee (2): In France also.

Prabhupāda: They were very upset. And when I was coming, I think, in Chicago, in the airplane, one of the host girl, she was seeing... (laughter) I asked her to supply one 7-up. And, "I have no key." She was so angry. But all the captains and others, they gathered around me. (laughter)

Harikeśa: I think that was the same stewardess who came in the back and asked us, "Why the Swamiji doesn't like women?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say that I don't like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights—your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.

Akṣayānanda: That doesn't mean you don't like them.

Page Title:What to speak of... (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:22 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=46, Let=0
No. of Quotes:46