What is the use (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"what is the use"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes. He's saying that by reducing these activities he wants to get mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: So, our point is that if he was not on the platform of mokṣa, liberation, why did he waste his time by spoiling himself and for spoiling others? Now he has come to his senses, it is good, but it is to be understood that he simply spoiled his time and spoiled others' career by misleading them. Thus, without being liberated, nobody can guide anyone. That is useless. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you have no eyes, then how can you lead others? If you are blind and they are blind, then what is the use of becoming their leaders? Actually all the so-called leaders and scholars, they are blind themselves and they have become big, big leader. That is the misfortune of the present life. And, therefore, our proposition is you take direction from Kṛṣṇa and His representative. That's all. That will help you. Try to understand this point. Our system, paramparā system, is that I am just like disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. I don't say that I am liberated. I am conditioned. But because I am following the instruction of Bhaktisiddhānta, I'm liberated. This is the distinction between conditioned and liberated.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So, "A preliminary booklet is presented herewith to your good self. Kindly read it carefully and let me know your reaction. We are prepared to answer all intricate questions in this subject." In this way present.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fine. I have made a lot of friends in Russia. I was going to send them. Only problem... Actually, I'll tell you what's happening with my correspondence with Russia. The Russian spying agency is so strong, they're not letting my letters get through, because...

Prabhupāda: Then don't send. What is the use of sending?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Actually what I was thinking of was, in my letters...

Prabhupāda: First of all see one man. Test.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was going to mention to him in my letter that I'm surprised how I'm not getting replies to my letters from the people I visited in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why you should inquire from him? If you know that there is difficulty, why should you inquire?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he can then have his Moscow address office get me the replies.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why you are anxious to get their reply? Their country is like that. Why...? Yes. Why should you bother and strain your brain unnecessarily? You should know they are all rascals. That's all. But here we get an opportunity. You can write, present it to... Where is the other book?

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I know that. Therefore I said that if you have to satisfy so many masters, it is not possible.

Dr. Patel: At the most she can give some sort of a cultural education along with those programs.

Prabhupāda: What that cultural...? If he does not practice, what is that culture? It is practice.

Dr. Patel: Practice in Bhagavad-gītā and practice..., in the subjects.

Prabhupāda: What is the use? They will produce that, such blind leaders.

Dr. Patel: They will not produce so bad leaders perhaps. At least they will have a little better understanding than those fools who have no background of religion at all. Well, your schools, so-called secularism, means no religion.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to follow the śāstra. Then it will be possible. Brahmacārī gurukule...

Indian lady: Christian has their own government schools everywhere. And we can have our own Kṛṣṇa consciousness school.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are having our own all over the world. We don't follow the government regulations

Indian lady: The Christian... (break)

Trivikrama: How about Dr. Patel?

Dr. Patel: I am a fool. (laughs) He has called me.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue. Who knows this how we are bound up and conditioned? If you talk in the modern society they will laugh: "What nonsense this man is... 'By sex life one becomes conditioned.' " They cannot understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (japa) This should be strictly outlawed, no more sannyāsīs. And those sannyāsīs who have fallen, you get them married, live like a... No more this showbottle, cheating. It is very ludicrous. Even there is a promise that "We shall not fall down again," that is also not believable. What is the use? Better go and speak philosophy in your gṛhastha dress, not this dress, but you have nice coat, pants, gentleman. Who says no? I never said. Rather I shall be glad to see that up-to-date gentlemen with tilaka and śikhā are speaking.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be... Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs. And those who have fallen down, let them marry, live like respectable gentlemen. I have no objection. After all, young man, fallen down—that's all right. It is by nature's way. But marry that girl. That I am insisting from the very beginning, that no friendly liaison. If you want, get one nice... They are, all of them qualified. Get one wife and live like a gentleman. Similarly woman. Live with one husband fastidiously, with children. What is the wrong there? We have so many gṛhastha devotees. You have got children. Pradyumna has got child. Gopāla has... Live with husband, wife. There is no restriction for husband and wife. But what is this nonsense that you take sannyāsa and make relation with...? This should be completely stopped. And in our, this campus, actually those who are eager to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should live, nobody else. We give free food, free apartment, cloth and everything. "Come here. Live. As far as possible we shall provide." But this is specially meant for bhagavad-bhajana. Attend ārati, early rise in the morning, attend the functions, take prasādam... In this way everything will be reorganized, not loose things. Then what is the use of...? We have got such a... And so far the tenants are concerned, if it is possible, give them money; let them go. One, two, some have gone, and others... This whole campus should be for devotees. We don't want tenant. And it should be developed for that purpose, for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Either here or outside India or anywhere, this principle should be followed. And this hodgepodge association, society, is not the... Let it be very pure. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā. That one moon is sufficient. There is no need of millions of stars. Hm? What do you think? One moon gives light. So, in this way, if we can make one person really Kṛṣṇa conscious, then our mission is successful. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling? What is called? Twinkling? You should discuss all these things, but you... These two brothers should be, P. Bannerji and M. Bannerji... The address is there. You can write as secretary, "Dear Sir, I am instructed by His Divine Grace Prabhupāda to thank you for your postcard dated such and such. And we condole for your bereavement in the absence of your father late, Principal N. Bannerji. You know that your father was intimately related with Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he assisted him with some money, loan. Your father attempted to repay it, but he could not. Now, after his death, you are worthy sons..."

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You cannot educate, neither you bring. This is māyā. Do you think... Do you think that only in your presence your children will be happy? There are... Just see here in the corner, the father, mother, and the child is always, twenty-four hours, crying. The father, mother, is there. They are poor men, they are taking care, but still, the child is unhappy; it is crying twenty-four hours. There are many you'll find. So does it mean that in the presence of father, mother, a child is happy? Everyone is being conducted by his destiny. The father, mother, may be there or may not be there; his destiny will go on. This is the law of nature. You see here. Do you mean to say, because that man is poor, he's not taking care of the child? Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick. He has engaged good physician, good doctor. Does it mean that he will guarantee life? Then what is the principle? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "It is not a fact that when the children are under the protection of father and mother, he's secure." Tvad-upekṣitānām: "If You neglect, that 'This child must cry; this child must die,' then even by the greatest care of the father and mother, he will die." So what is the use, saying that your duty...? Duty? That is māyā.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of investing money there? I have already given fifty thousand.

Haṁsadūta: I mean I talked with Mahāṁsa also. I talked with him when he came back day before yesterday. Talked with him very frankly and openly. Of course, he always says, "Yes, yes, yes," and then he just does whatever he feels should be done. And Tejas also... Now, Tejas, for example, he started a vegetable garden, and it was going on very nicely, but then everything dried up because all the workers, they work under Mahāṁsa. They're all accustomed to taking instructions from him. And so the plants were not watered. Mahāṁsa continually put the water someplace else. So now everything that Tejas has done is frustrated. So he feels, "Why should I be here?" Tejas, I think, has something really to offer. I think he's experienced, but if he's not given a field and some space to exercise his talent, he's going to go away, and I feel, without Tejas... I mean there's no one else I can refer to about these matters. I don't know anything about farming. I don't know planting. But Tejas seems to know. And he speaks Telegu also, and he also is one of our devotees. And I have more faith in Tejas than I would any other person who we might consult. But ultimately Tejas is, I think, more important than anyone else because he is your devotee, and he's very faithful and responsible. And one other thing which Tejas... When he was there, he worked out financial..., what he saw was the actual financial picture of how Mahāṁsa had been investing money in the past and what kind of result he had been getting on the basis of labor and...

Prabhupāda: Now the money which we have transferred, so that is... You are three signatures.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for Guruji? (laughs) Who cares for Guruji? They think that "Guruji is cheating you—I am cheating your Guruji. What is the wrong?" They think Guruji means cheater. Nowadays, Guruji means cheater. "So you are cheated by your Guruji, so let me cheat your Guruji." That's all. Sate satāṁ samācaret. If one is sat, cunning, you should be also cunning, more cunning. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, policy. Sate satāṁ samācaret. Very miserable condition in this age. Therefore the sane man should utilize the little opportunity of human life in the cent percent Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the proper utilization of life. Try to serve Kṛṣṇa cent percent. Bas. That is proper utilization. The so-called philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this ism, that.... Bogus.... Not bogus-useless. It will not help. They are pious activities. So, Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, pious or impious, both of them are impediments to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we are not interested with pious activities or impious even. We are interested how to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our philosophy is very difficult to understand. Suppose you are giving some medical relief, and if I say that "Why you should waste your time by giving medical relief? Why not give him relief from birth and death?" they'll laugh. Is it not? They'll laugh, that "What nonsense he's speaking? This man is suffering. He immediately requires." We don't say that "You don't give medical relief," but why do you forget the real business? That is our.... Vivekananda said, "What is the use of pouring water in tulasī? Better pour water in a eggplant saka. You'll get some eggplant." This is.... Vivekananda said. Eggplant is also a small tree, and tulasī... So if somebody is pouring water on a tulasī leaf for bhakti, he condemns him, "Why you are wasting time? Pour water on this eggplant. Tomorrow you'll get two." (laughs) This is karmī. "God is fictitious. God's service is another sentiment. Do something practical."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Asnani: Oh, I was taking sometime in literary sense. So it was sometimes confusing me.

Prabhupāda: No, it is literally, that yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. He, spiritualist person, he knows, that "What is the use of the sense gratification? The sense gratification is there in the cats and dogs. Why I am wasting in this way?" That is awakened. What is the difference? A man is having sex life in a very nice apartment, very decorated and nice cot. He is enjoying sex life, that "I am advanced civili..." And the dog is enjoying sex life on the street in presence of everyone. But the enjoyment of sex life is the same. There is no difference either for the dog or the man. So the spiritualistic man, he says that "Why shall I waste my time in sex enjoyment? This is enjoyed by the dogs and cats. I have got this human form of life for spiritual advancement." So saṁyamī: "Stop this nonsense. Let me cultivate spiritual life." Saṁyamī. Saṁyamī means sense gratification stopped. That is saṁyamī. And he is not saṁyamī. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Because he's not saṁyamī, his sense are uncontrolled, so he's opening the path of hellish condition of life. The business is the same—āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam—based on this maithuna, sex life. So you'll find the fly is doing the same thing, and the dog is doing the same thing, and the human being is also doing the same thing, and the king of heaven, he is doing the same thing. The business is the same. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Only the body is different. But they are thinking that "If in the body of Indra, I can have sex with Śacīdevi, that is advancement." He does not think that the sex life with Śacīdevī or the street dog, it is same. There is no difference. And that is jāgarti. That is awakened. There is one word. Where it is, I don't remember. Maithunam agaram ajñāḥ. This is.... This material life is a term of imprisonment of imprisonment in sex. Just like imprisonment means you are detained in a place allotted by the government, you cannot go out. So here, this material world, the imprisonment is the sex. You cannot go out.

Mr. Asnani: Only sex, Prabhupāda? Or...

Prabhupāda: All sex. First of all sex.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughing) That was joking.

Gurudāsa: Yes. 'Cause last time, in 1972, you and I were walking, and you saw the sādhus on the elephant, and you said, "I would put Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa there." I remember it very well. You said, "I would not sit there."

Prabhupāda: What is the use? (laughter) It goes like this. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: Other sādhus I don't think.

Gurudāsa: No, others are. Processions. It is a procession thing. The nagas take them into the river.

Prabhupāda: When there was no car, elephant had some importance. And now they have got so many cars. (break)

Dr. Patel: Camels were used as they are now, for ...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gurudāsa: They still do.

Dr. Patel: They're better than the horses, don't get tired earlier. From Vṛndāvana to Delhi the camels were running. They used (Hindi). I don't know what they call it in Bengali.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja purchased two camels. I did not... I do not know what happened, but he purchased.

Gurudāsa: I think Tīrtha Mahārāja was fighting with someone else over them.

Prabhupāda: No, it is long ago.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is argument! This is argument. This is fact. These rascals keep these women unmarried to enjoy daily new, new young women, these karmīs, these rascals. There is club. There is club. These young women are paid for that topless, bottomless. You do not know.

Dr. Patel: No. I have never seen a girl naked. I refuse to...

Prabhupāda: I have... I know everything.

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you gave the example that what is the use of keeping a cow if you can get milk in the marketplace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Cow-keeping is expensive.

Dr. Patel: Why keep a cow when milk is available. (laughs)

Trivikrama: It's a fact. The young men think like that.

Prabhupāda: They make pregnant and they go away. And this poor girl, either she has to kill the child or beg from the government, "Give me welfare; otherwise..." Is that freedom? These rascal woman...

Dr. Patel: This is freedom. Actually the government recognized...

Prabhupāda: Government means a set of rascals. But practical point of view the woman wants equal right. Equal rights they enjoy, and the woman becomes pregnant, and he goes away, the boy. And she has to kill the child or beg from the government. This is her freedom. And still, equal rights. Where equal right? The boy has gone away. You also go away? No. You'll have to carry the child. To get freedom you have to kill or you have to beg. And still she thinks, "I am free."

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Paramaṁ vacaḥ. Paramam means supreme instruction. Why? Now...?

Hari-śauri: Iṣṭo 'si me dṛḍham iti.

Prabhupāda: Iṣṭo 'si: "I know you are My very sincere devotee and friend." Then?

Hari-śauri: Tato vakṣyāmi te hitam.

Prabhupāda: Tato vakṣyāmi te hitam. This is the confidential knowledge. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (Brs. 1.1.11). You simply act favorably to Kṛṣṇa. Then agreed: "Yes, I shall fight." Because he understood that "I have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not my whims. I was thinking of my whims, that 'They are my family members. Why shall I fight? Why you are putting me this proposal? So on, so on, so on...' " That... What is that verse? Find out that kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). There. There you'll find. Agreed. "Yes." In the beginning he disagreed. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat prasādān madhusūdana, kariṣye vacanam. Naṣṭo mohaḥ. After so much instruction, if his moha is not dissipated, then what is the use? So he said naṣṭo mohaḥ. You could not find?

Hari-śauri: What's the first line?

Prabhupāda: Naṣṭo! Why don't you find? You. Give him. He'll find. Why don't you give to Pradyumna?

Hari-śauri: Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā?

Prabhupāda: Ha!

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No. You can introduce in such a way that they will become devotees. Suppose in big, big factories we shall introduce this prasāda distribution and chanting. They'll immediately be popular. Everything will be... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Jagadīśa: In order for us to get power, by that time the illumination and knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be widespread.

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm wondering. I was thinking that it wouldn't be. There would be...

Jagadīśa: Otherwise how can we get through? What is the use of having one politician?

Rāmeśvara: Many revolutions have been victorious with a very small minority of people behind them because they're so well organized. Russia, Germany, all these revolutions.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: In history there is examples of small groups of people taking over a government because they are very intelligent and very well organized.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: Say, the Christian religion... The Christian religion has millions of followers.

Prabhupāda: But what is the meaning of these followers? They do not understand anything. Simply by rubber-stamp they are follower.

Rāmeśvara: But if we can get a mass following, it is only possible by preaching to them little bit at a time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By your ideal life, ideal teaching, you'll get. This Christian or any religion, what is the use of that? It's not at all religion. It's simply rubber-stamp.

Rāmeśvara: No. But if we had many people, then gradually we could help them become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But I think they all... One thing that scares people is that we ask too much...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is...

Rāmeśvara: ...at the beginning. We are asking too much.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So if we ask just a little bit, then gradually we increase.

Prabhupāda: No, little bit we say, that "You come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasāda."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: So do that. There is no need of accumulating money and pay income tax and botheration. Spend it. Always remain empty pocket.

Rāmeśvara: So I was thinking to develop this record group so we can make lots of money.

Prabhupāda: You make lots of money and spend lots of money. Don't keep it in the pocket. What is the use of keeping? No income.

Rāmeśvara: So our only interest is to spend it as fast as we get it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spend it for distribution. They'll say, "Kṛṣṇa, give us prasāda!" And that is our triumph. They chant and "Kṛṣṇa." That's all right. "Take prasāda."

Rāmeśvara: So I'm encouraging them to make more records like the "Change of Heart."

Prabhupāda: We are not dry, simply talking philosophy. "Take prasāda. Eat sumptuously."

Rāmeśvara: In America, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if people become followers of a particular music group, then they take their message and their life-style very seriously. Just like when the people were following the Beatles, and then the Beatles became involved with meditation, so this made it very popular in America. If the group becomes... If the music group becomes popular, then whatever they do, everyone follows. So I am thinking that we can make this music group, Golden Avatar, very popular. Then everyone will find out that they believe in reincarnation and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everyone will follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes, something "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" music must be there.

Rāmeśvara: Now, to make this group very popular, they have to have Western dress.

Prabhupāda: Never mind.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: But what if they change later on in their life?

Prabhupāda: They have become Kṛṣṇa conscious from the very beginning. That is the perfection of life. They are perfect from the very beginning of their life. And you are going to school, college; you are becoming most uncivilized, cats and dogs. So what is the value of this education? Phalena means result. Result is hippie. So what is the use of Western... Stop all these colleges and universities. The sooner they are stopped, it is better for the human beings. We want to stop it.

Rāmeśvara: Of course, if we tell them that, then they will think that we are anarchists.

Prabhupāda: First of all you say that we want to stop this nonsense, that is the name of education producing hippies. We want to stop it. You may take us whatever you like. We want gentlemen, not this hogs' and dogs' naked dance. You are hogs and dogs; you accept. But we cannot accept. We are birds of the same feather. We are cleansed. Let them become hogs and dogs. But the civilized(?) thing must go on. So we want to stop this. Is that education?

Rāmeśvara: Now they say if we are thinking of our members to be gentlemen, then why is it when they go to the airports they are bothering so many people?

Prabhupāda: They are not bothering; they are educating. You take... A rascal, when he is advised... A thief when he's advised, "Kindly do not become a thief," he takes it botheration, but that is good advice.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Rāmeśvara: "You are ruining family life."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: We are simply ruining our families.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are ruining the dog's family, cat's family. That's all right. We are entering into Kṛṣṇa's family. That is our improvement. What is the use of keeping with the dog's family, cat's family? The dog has also family. So to remain in the dog's family, it is very prestigious position? We have now constructed our own family, Kṛṣṇa family. We are entering there. What is the use of remaining in the dog's family, cat's family?

Hari-śauri: "But if you're actually followers of God, then why are you breaking up the families? Shouldn't you have love for everyone?"

Rāmeśvara: Because they say that the Ten Commandments says... One of the Ten Commandments, the fourth one, says "Thou shalt honor thy mother and thy father."

Prabhupāda: Yes, we honor.

Rāmeśvara: But that means by birth, the mother and father also. That's what it refers to.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, it'll show the higher religious culture of India. That will impress many people in America. They think of India as so backwards, but they'll see that they have these beautiful temples.

Prabhupāda: So that is due to British propaganda. British propaganda was that they were staying in India to make India civilized.

Rāmeśvara: Their big propaganda is that "India is so poor and they are so stupid, they are giving all their money to the temple, so they are remaining poor, so what is the use of this religion?" That was the propaganda, that "Religion is the opiate of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not... Therefore they are... The Indian rascals, they using this income of Bālaji for industry. They are bringing, that "The poor people, on account of their innocence, they are blindly, so..." Communist movement is against us because we are constructing costly temples, crores and rupees. This could have been utilized in industry. That is their protest. Temple construction was practically stopped in India. And I have again revived. Nobody was interested to construct temple anywhere within the recent at least hundred years or fifty years.

Hari-śauri: Only the Birlas.

Prabhupāda: Ah, only Birlas, yes.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: And we were purchasing real milk (indistinct). So nice.

Rāmeśvara: So they may say this philosophy, that's like the communism, capitalism, Russia, America. The business of exploiting the masses is the same, they'll say. Different names, different dress, but the main business is going on.

Prabhupāda: Expert. Nobody is thinking (indistinct) "Everyone will be happy." That we are thinking because we are devotees. Otherwise what is the use of my going to America? So America is not in need of me, but I found there is need of me. So they are thinking, "This man has come to wash our brains." And I think that "Yes, we are going to do work (indistinct) they will be happy."

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could I ask one more question about the records?

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Rāmeśvara: Suppose we make a profit. Someone may enquire, "Isn't it better to use the money to distribute more books rather than giving it to the food program."

Prabhupāda: No, no, books department, that is already sufficient income.

Rāmeśvara: I would personally like to use it for the food program.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Book we are getting.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (chuckling)

Rāmeśvara: And I look forward to it, because we'll smash them in each confrontation. They now realize that when they have a debate against us, they always lose. We have had maybe five or six confrontations in Los Angeles on television and on the radio, and every time they lose. And every time they go away like this.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You can keep there under the bath section. I'll wash there.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So actually we're getting all this free exposure on radio and on television. And each time we come off sounding very intelligent, very religious, very nice, and they come off sounding like fanatics and bigots. So people are getting a good impression of us because of the publicity on radio and television.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Sītā was put into the fire and she came out unburned. Sītā was blasphemed, that "This woman was kidnapped by Rāvaṇa, and Rāmacandra is so henpecked that He has again picked up her and living with her." So Rāmacandra put him (her) in the fire and she came unharmed.

Rāmeśvara: You were asking me what is the use of, say, if you came to America, if you were on television. But actually people are very interested in this issue, so they will listen. They are listening to see us, hoping that we will be exposed.

Prabhupāda: Now, Hari-śauri was (saying) that there are many fanatics. They may attack me: "He's the man who has started this movement."

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? You can have here. We have got forty standing orders from this city in different libraries, colleges. So you can take books from any library, or if you like you can purchase also.

Indian: From libraries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many libraries, they have ordered. There is a list in Orissan. (aside:) You can give me little, little sample... (break) ...for life that it is a dead body. A dead body. So what is the use of decorating a dead body? So if anyone accepts Christ actually and his instruction, then it proves that he has got a good soul. Otherwise what... He's dead body. That's a fact. If one accepts that Christ says, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not do this," if one is actually a person with soul, they must accept this. Otherwise where is the use? Dead body. The same thing, as we say, aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. What is the use of decorating a dead body? A dead body means soul-less. When the soul is not there, it is called dead body. So even one has got the soul, but he does not act... They possesses the soul. Then it is dead body. So when we shall hear about the land? One program is suspended. That program is for constructing a house for me.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, in the Western country also. Western country, now this higher English, higher mathematics, higher philosophy is no student admission. Nobody's going. They're going to close.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Philosophy and all the arts.

Prabhupāda: No, anything higher study, don't care for it.

Rāmeśvara: It's true. Technical studies and business...

Prabhupāda: Our Hayagrīva is not getting any employment. Nobody's interested. "Eh. What is the use of higher mathematics, all this, these things? We have to earn money."

Rāmeśvara: Physics, computer technology, all these things are big.

Gargamuni: And they're prepared to spend lakhs. Some of these technical books cost more than a hundred rupees a volume.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're charging.

Gargamuni: But they'll buy them.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of philosophizing? Even that Professor O'Connell? He came to me, that "Why don't you give some students?" Means he's going to be dismissed very soon. But he has no students.

Hari-śauri: He came and asked Prabhupāda why don't we send our men to the university for Ph.D's.

Prabhupāda: I could understand his position. Now he's going to be dismissed.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: More than American dollar.

Rāmeśvara: One dollar, forty cents.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Or one dollar, sixty cents. Now it is almost equal.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So much.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They had to do that because their economy was ruined. He had taken away... This man was crazy. He had taken away all the tariffs, so that foreign countries were supplying their products in Australia, and the local businessmen..., local manufacturers were going out of business. So many problems. And they're so proud of their modern culture, modern education and advancement, but they're being blackmailed by the Arabs. The Arab countries are considered very undeveloped, and the Western world is so proud how advanced they are, yet they are now being blackmailed by the Arabs for oil. So what is the use of their advancement? And now whatever the Arabs want, they have to do.

Prabhupāda: I think he is not returning. He's gone forever. Gargamuni: Who?

Hari-śauri: Devi-dhāma. Oh, no. He's back. He's back.

Gargamuni: Just now.

Prabhupāda: So what did he bring?

Rāmeśvara: So they have become completely dependent on oil.

Prabhupāda: Anything artificial, it will break. You cannot make a scheme of mental concoction. That will not endure. You take standard it will be beneficial. The whole world is in chaotic condition because they have so many artificial way of living.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That you can have. That is material...

Rāmeśvara: And the crabs, in such close quarters, they began eating each other.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Rāmeśvara: And at the end he had one crab left for his fifty thousand dollars. (chuckling)

Prabhupāda: A madman working... Chāgale nā khāya, pāgale ki bale. "A madman, what does he not say, and a goat, what does he not eat?" There is a system like that amongst the Muhammadan aristocracy. They keep one hundred chickens. Each day they kill one chicken, and that flesh, chopped up and given to the ninety-nine. Then, next day another. In this way, when one is left, that the master eats. Concentrating from hundred to one, and then he eats it. This is Muhammadan process.

Rāmeśvara: What is the use?

Prabhupāda: They know. (chuckling) They think the hundred chickens' vitamin comes into one.

Hari-śauri: Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā.

Prabhupāda: And by eating such chicken, you don't require one cloth. That is aristocracy. They, during severe cold, they will have fine panjabi. You know panjabi?

Hari-śauri: Yes, very thin.

Prabhupāda: And if you wear... (end)

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Then if people say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement doing?"

Prabhupāda: Don't you see? You have no eyes? Who is publishing these books? If you have education, read it. Simply jumping like monkey is good, do you think? Here is intelligence and appreciation. Do you mean to say...? The monkey is very busy. Who likes that? After all, it is monkey. So your doing something is like jumping of the monkey and dogs. Who likes it? And you are simply creating problem by your so-called busy-ness. Better you stop and read our books and be intelligent. Lazy mischief-maker, it is better than busy mischief maker. Busy mischief maker means he'll commit more mischief. Just like monkey. What is the use of his becoming busy? He'll simply create mischief. So better... An lazy mischief maker is better than the busy mischief maker.

Rāmeśvara: Maybe you should just read some of those letters.

Satsvarūpa: The note from Svarūpa Dāmodara? This is January 15th. (break)

Prabhupāda: Vaiśyas also. Śūdras also.

Satsvarūpa: You were saying that last night in your talk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is required. But he must be a Vaiṣṇava. That's all. Actually none of us belong to any group. They are servant of Kṛṣṇa, and for Kṛṣṇa's sake he can act as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya or a śūdra. It doesn't matter. It is all Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like he is giving massage. That does not mean he's a śūdra. This is actual śūdra's business, servant. But he's not a śūdra. Similarly, we can act for Kṛṣṇa in any position. We do not belong to this material occupation or platform. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). This is to be dwelled on.(?) He's above all this nonsense. Brahma-bhūyāya means liberated. Jīvan-mukta sa ucyate. Jīvan-mukta means he may act in this life as a kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa, śūdra. It doesn't matter. But he's liberated. He's not going to take birth again. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). A śūdra cannot get that position. So try to understand our philosophy thoroughly and distribute it. Janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra. At least nobody can defeat our philosophy in the whole world. That position we have.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "Then why you are talking like rascal?" You should have said like that.

Satsvarūpa: He said, "I know Bhagavad-gītā, and my father and all our relatives, we all study Bhagavad-gītā." But he couldn't...

Prabhupāda: "And you do not know anything." (laughter) What is the use of... So we shall go further? No.

Bhāgavata: Would you like to return?

Prabhupāda: No, we shall go. The, what is called, evolution theory... Darwin said they take from monkey. But they do not know wherefrom the monkey comes. Does he give it chronologically?

Satsvarūpa: No. They say that both humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But they don't know what that is.

Prabhupāda: Who was your ancestor? (laughter) Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-vimśati. There is chronological order followed: first of all aquatics, then trees and plants, then insects, then reptiles, and in this way, then birds, then beasts, then human being. Which way? This? No.

Bhāgavata: If you want to go out, this way. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...it from Padma Purāṇa, and he has explained in his own imagination. The idea has been taken from Padma Purāṇa because the Padma Purāṇa, it is already there, evolution. Asatiṁ caturaṁś caiva. Eighty-four lakṣa means hundred thousand, 8,400,000. That is also given. Where is that, that Darwin's theory?

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri:...on the basis, "You've got so many children. They need this knowledge and education for when they go to school." So they purchase whole volumes.

Prabhupāda: Introducing as study book in higher colleges, universities, text book, then it will be... What is the use, a so-called scholar having a Ṣaṭ-sandarbha? And this has been failure... Our one Godbrother, he did. Simply he printed. It was not sold, and then it was mishandled, distributed like anything.

Hari-śauri: What was that?

Prabhupāda: That Ananta Vāsudeva, my Godbrother, he printed so many Gosvāmī literatures, but it was not successful.

Satsvarūpa: Even when I went to the convention in America, one convention, this woman professor, they were all excited. She has just translated Vidagdha-mādhava. But she had no understanding. She was talking about what the rasa is and Rādhārāṇī, but it's all like psychology or sex literature.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They say, "Sex religion. Religious perfection through sex." That is their idea. That Rajneesh is doing that. Rajneesh?

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: What they have done, these...? They were getting, minimum, fifty thousand rupees daily.

Hari-śauri: Oh, at least.

Prabhupāda: So what, these nonsense politicians? They lost the money and inconvenience to others. These rascal politicians, they can do anything whimsical. They were getting money, not less than fifty thousand, not smaller than daily fifty thousand. From business point of view they could have raised the toll. They could get more money. What is the use of stopping?

Hari-śauri: Well, they raised the price of oil instead.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: They raised the price of oil instead.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadan, they... Brain fag. And they are thieves. The captains said that they are all thieves, these Egyptians.

Hari-śauri: Arabs.

Prabhupāda: Arabs. Vast desert we saw, passing. Huge stack of sand. How they are living there?

Hari-śauri: Certainly not for a civilized man.

Prabhupāda: This stove is ours?

Hari-śauri: It's Gargamuni's... (break)

Prabhupāda: Just imagine what kind of astrologer. The modern astrologers, they cannot foretell like that, neither they can believe that it is possible.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Somebody will go out and speak against us.

Satsvarūpa: The demons are very eager to hear. "Oh, tell us what they did to you."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) "That is not your business. You better ask because you have taken him as authority. You have already taken him as authority, the excommunicated member. So you ask him." These things will happen. In preaching, you cannot expect very smooth path going. Otherwise what is the use of preaching?

Hari-śauri: That's been going on for a long time.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Hari-śauri: Even their own religion started like that. Jesus's..., one of his best disciples turned him in.

Gurukṛpā: Actually they are helping us to become Kṛṣṇa conscious by giving us an opportunity to preach about Kṛṣṇa.

Gargamuni: It makes us serve with great..., more enthusiasm, even the demons.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of electricity. Electricity. Some thunder. That is electricity. The word is used, apratihatā. Pratihata means checking. When your devotional service will make progress in spite of checking, that is pure devotion. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. And that is pure devotion. I was attacked by heart attack thrice. While on the ship, twice.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: Medicines have done away with so many diseases.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Disease... Does it mean there is no disease? You die by this disease or that disease. What is the improvement?

Gurukṛpā: They say that people used to live much longer, that they live longer now.

Prabhupāda: So what is the use of living longer, a tree is living longer, five thousand years. Does it mean that it is important life? A tree is standing for seven thousand years. There is a tree in San Francisco.

Gurukṛpā: Yes, I saw that.

Prabhupāda: You have.

Hari-śauri: Redwood forest.

Prabhupāda: And from the stoutness and strongness it will live another seven thousand years. Does it...? Is it living, worth living, to stand up very stout and strong in a place for fourteen thousands of years? Is that life? Hm? I have spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness within ten years, and he is standing eight thousand years. So credit goes to him or to me? Better to live for ten years than to live for ten thousand years in that condition. And therefore they are ass, mūḍha. They do not know what is life. What improvement they have made?

Gurukṛpā: Their only improvement now is abortion and homosex. That is the most popular thing.

Prabhupāda: Tch tch. Just see.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: "My only wish is to have my consciousness purified by the words emanating from his lotus mouth."

Prabhupāda: Then he's safe. And as soon as he manufactures—finished. So don't do this. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau, tasyaite kathitā... (ŚU 6.23). This is the secret of spiritual success. Vṛndāvana, there are so many dangerous. All these bābājīs, they are... "Oh, I am not going out of Vṛndāvana." But he has got connection with so many women. So what is the use? Have you experience of this? He's attached to women and doing all sinful activities in Vṛndāvana, and he's a devotee. "He cannot go out of Vṛndāvana." This is going on, manufacturing biḍi, smoking biḍi, in the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, loincloth, big tilaka, kaṇṭhi, and what he's doing? Biḍi-making. Have you seen?

Pṛthu-putra: I have seen some of them doing this, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not all of them. But they are also claiming they're on the stage of Rūpa Gosvāmī. We are preaching—we are lower stage. That is their opinion. We are preaching all over the world; we are in the lower stage. And because he has imitated the dress of Rūpa Gosvāmī, mālā, tilaka, and he's manufacturing biḍi-he's higher. This is going on. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has condemned these rascals—that kali-celā—"the disciple of Kali." Ei ota eka kali-celā.(?) Here is a disciple of Kali. Who? Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. And sahajiyā bhajana kache mamu, saṅge lana pare bala.(?) He has tilaka and mālā, and sahajiyā, with other girls he's making parakīyā-rasa-bhajana. Kali-celā. Ei ota eka kali-celā. So we have to guided by our predecessor ācāryas. Then we shall be saved. Otherwise we are condemned.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: He's actually authority. (break)

Indian man: Some leaves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, tasteful. (break) By accident, huh? The rascal has said. (train whistle) (break) ...scientist?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If by chance everything is taking place, what is the use of science?

Satsvarūpa: They don't say their work is by chance, but ultimately everything is by chance. But they have...

Prabhupāda: That is a very good explanation. (chuckles)

Bhāgavata: Isaac Newton disproved that theory.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Chance. (break)

Hari-śauri: So one man, he did a paper called "Life Has No Meaning."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (break)

Satsvarūpa: That means dead.(?) (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Life has no meaning, but the lifeless man's words have meaning.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why you come to pose your authority? If authority is not good, then why do you come to instruct your authority? Hm? The same thing, eh, change from one authority to another authority.

Satsvarūpa: But I don't say you have to accept me absolutely as...

Prabhupāda: Then why do you speak nonsense then, if I haven't got to accept you? What is the use of speaking all nonsense? If nobody accepts you, then why do you talk nonsense? Somebody's selling something, and if he says, "Don't purchase it," then what is the use of... (laughs) All contradiction. After all, they are nonsense.

Satsvarūpa: They think that by surrendering to the spiritual master, if many people do this, it will be very dangerous because they won't think for themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But you ask to surrender to you, so why shall I not surrender to my spiritual master? What is the use of changing surrendering?

Satsvarūpa: Well, at least if we don't have absolute authority, I may tell you something and if it's not good, you don't have to follow me.

Prabhupāda: So why do you speak nonsense, the same thing, if I haven't got to follow you? Why you waste your time and waste my time?

Hari-śauri: If what he's saying has no value, then why should he speak?

Prabhupāda: Then why do you waste your time?

Satsvarūpa: Relative value.

Prabhupāda: That I have already got.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To present your case. Comparative study means impartially make comparison. There is no knowledge of God in there. They're all bogus. You cannot say that. But actually they... What do they know about God? They have simply a vague idea. So what is the use of comparison. Then you have to give your judgment—"It is all bogus." That they will not like to hear. But actually that is the position. What complain? What do they know about God? Simply they have got some idea, the Christianity, Muhammadanism, Hind..., everyone. Even Hinduism, they do not know. Therefore they worship so many demigods and ultimately they make nirākāra. Nobody knows God. This is the, perhaps, first time in the history of the world that we are presenting, "Here is God." Here is God. Nobody presented, neither they know it.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Hm, that is all right. I do not know.

Satsvarūpa: And they would be carefully...

Prabhupāda: No, I have no knowledge about these things. What is the use of consulting me?

Satsvarūpa: Well, I think it's to consult with you on the principle that they're not devotees...

Prabhupāda: I know that they made some books already. Why they are being rejected? Then again you make, and again rejecting. That is unnecessary.

Satsvarūpa: I see.

Prabhupāda: They can better translate in French so many books, the husband, wife. And the children's books there are already. (break) ...excess book had to be cancelled. They have already made.

Satsvarūpa: They have quite a number of books.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Satsvarūpa: No, I don't know what's wrong with them. They seem to be all right. But the thing is they want to make a book that will be so nice that any teacher, elementary school teacher, would say "This is very good."

Prabhupāda: No, everything is good, and again sometimes, again improvement, again...

Hari-śauri: I think their idea is that if they have a good quality, then they could even be distributed to the schools.

Prabhupāda: That is to be decided by the GBC. How can I know what is good quality, bad quality? But I know there are some books made. Again you translate; again you make another.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Understanding the laws of nature and the provider of the laws of nature is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That laws of nature is working. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Huh? Andhā yathāndhair..., te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Īśa-tantra, by the laws of nature they are tightly, hand and legs are, they are bound up. What they can do? Therefore Kṛṣṇa summarizes all the different types of tribulation. Kṛṣṇa said... These all kinds of tribulation is summarized in these four principles—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Ah. Bas. You make solution these, first of all. Then talk of all nonsense. You cannot make any solution. There are different types of suffering, but they are all summarized in these four words-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Make solution. This is God's challenge. You are challenging God in His arrangement, and God's challenge is that "Here are four principles. Do something for these, rascal. Then you talk of solution."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the basic laws of nature, which we cannot alter. We cannot change. It will come sooner or later.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the use?

Yogeśvara: But let us say by his karma a man is in a position where he cannot perceive...

Prabhupāda: That is the... That is in the via media. The real trouble is there—janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Now if you can make change... Suppose you are now a dog. You can become a man. But that is not solution. Or you are man; you can become a demigod. Karma. But that does not make solution! Either you become demigod or man or dog or cat or insect, you must have these tribulations, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is God's challenge. You first of all make solution. But you are eternal. Why you are in this condition? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You... That means you are eternally suffering, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), simply changing the position. But suffering's there. So you are taking credit by little change of the position. And that is your foolishness. And God challenges you, "You make solution of these things." Why little change? Suppose I am... I have got so many centers. Sometimes I live in the palace, other times a cottage. So this is change of position.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But what is the use of having big strong body if now they're using airplanes and tanks and guns.

Prabhupāda: That is your useless waste of time. Why? Therefore the war does not stop, unnecessary war, and such a big war, Kurukṣetra, in eighteen days it is finished. This is decision. And this is going on, continually war, strain, politics, diplomacy, lecture, Parliament. There is no finishing of war. There is no finishing. It will go on. Just like same example: If you keep the dogs as dogs, they'll going on barking. It will never finish. So this is the civilization of dog work. It is not human civilization. Therefore it is going on. War is not stopped. Where is stop? War is stopped? No. Going on. And it will go on because they are dogs. You cannot stop their barking. There are so many things. If we follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, then whole world will be... This is a fact. Now, how to implement it, that is another thing. It is a fact.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So, dhīra. This material world means so long we'll have a pinch of material desire, we'll have to take birth. Kṛṣṇa will give us full facility to satisfy our senses in various ways. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Full facilities. "Enjoy. But if you want my advice, then sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. And that, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give all facilities for material enjoyment in different grades of life. Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business. So those who are engaged in the same business, so that is, Ṛṣabhadeva said, "It is not good. What is the use of same business again and again. You are not disgusted?" To repeat the birth is very good business? To enter into the womb of some mother and remain there for some time in so packed up condition and suffering, to forget. But acts in such a way that he'll have to take birth again. Na sādhu manye. Ṛṣabhadeva (says), "This is not good business." "Then what is wrong?" Just like some student in Hawaii University, "What is wrong if I become a dog?" This is education, university. They do not understand what is the wrong in this business of repetition of birth and death. So what is education? They cannot understand even that what is the suffering in birth and death.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We have already become more than, more important than.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tīrtha Mahārāja's brother is active now?

Prabhupāda: What...? Rejected. I think of them, dead. They may think themselves that they very full of life, but I think they are dead. What is the use of fighting with the dead body? Dead horse and what is the use of whipping? A dead horse will rise up by whipping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, "Beating the dead horse." There's a saying.

Prabhupāda: I think all of them are dead.

Hari-śauri: Yes, they're not doing anything. They've retired. They built their own little place, and now they're retired.

Prabhupāda: There is no activity throughout the whole world, er, whole year. Only they come during the festival.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They use this festival as a means of collecting money...

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Your seeing is imperfect.

Hari-śauri: But the fire is here, and there's no life in the fire.

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see. That is your imperfect... You should conclude from the general experience, that "Here there is life; there must be... We cannot." But what do you see? Just like they have taken photograph. What is that photograph? Suppose if you take a photograph of the ocean, can you see any life? The life is within. What is the use of your photograph? Your everything is imperfect. You cannot say anything final. And you are imperfect, your senses are imperfect; whatever you have got, that is imperfect. If Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham, then Kṛṣṇa is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, "sun-god" means he lives in the sun.

Prabhupāda: Vivasvān manave prāha. And Manu, his son, his family and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: House.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is there. You are scientist. You are very expert, more than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you believe like that.

Hari-śauri: Then if we accept your reasoning, then show us practically where there is life in fire.

Prabhupāda: You cannot see, rascal, because you are rascal. Therefore you cannot see. You have to hear. That is also... Because you are rascal, you cannot see. You simply... Just like you have not seen your father. Rascal, who can see? Who is that rascal who can see his father? You have to hear from the mother. You rascal, you cannot see your father. Why you are claiming that "I want to see my real father." That is not possible. You have to simply hear from the mother. That is only source. Similarly, you are rascal, everything is, you, imperfect, so you have to hear from the authority. That is only source.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But you go and it will... Go in the fire. This is the defect, that he is imperfect in every way and he claims to be God. That is the defect. The same way. I want to see who is my actual father. How you can see? You have to accept the mother. That's all. Veda. Veda is mother. Accept mother and Vedic information. Otherwise there is no possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Then you don't believe Kṛṣṇa. Why you have taken to this? So many things are there. You should take it. Just like the soul. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin: "There is." You take it. You cannot say Kṛṣṇa, "Show me." Then finished, you knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has given the reason. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). You can see in that way, that because the soul is there the body is changing. As soon as soul is not there, stop. It is no more... That you have to... Nothing more. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. If you are dhīra, then there is no difficulty. But you are the rascal. This is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Yes, we can practically experience also; when there is driver the motorcar is moving. No driver—no movement. Where is the difficulty? But because you are rascal you do not know how to take things practically. What is the difference between a motorcar and this machine? It is also machine. Bhagavad-gītā says it is a machine. So machine may without a conductor, without the... A machine may be very useful, computer, but if there is no worker, what is the use of this machine? Simply alone machine can work? It may be very wonderful machine.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is a protest against Gandhi's nonviolence, (laughter) bogus nonviolence. So it is a protest against that idea.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, this is not a nonviolent picture.

Prabhupāda: I do not know how he wanted to draw nonviolence from this idea. This is going on, distorting the real fact. Politics without violence is impossible. There is a Bengali proverb, Naste base gun tata:(?) "A girl has come to the stage for dancing, and she is pulling her veil." (laughs) She has to dance freely, and what is the use of...? Nasta base gun tata.(?) In politics nonviolence, there is no history. The Britishers took it an opportunity to continue their ruling.

Mahāṁśa: He wasn't even political man, because politics means there has to be violence.

Prabhupāda: No, impartially studying, he endeavored for upliftment of the South African Indians, South Africans, yes, Johannesburg.

Brahmānanda: In Durban he started.

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Jayatīrtha: None.

Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: So one step at a time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But organized business means there must be so many men, secretary, manager. That is regulated. So in the beginning, "All right, bring some money somehow. Then I shall..." So you cannot reject this organization because he's chanting. Then what is the use of writing so many books, the nāma-aparādha and other discussions, if anyone can chant?

Rāmeśvara: So it definitely has to lead them to that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we must come to that point. In the beginning you may be very liberal: "All right, chant." We do like that, and I have done it. There is no regulation. But that does not..., that it should be neglected. He should be given affirmed, "By simply, whimsically chanting this..." No, that is not.

Hari-śauri: Niyamāgraha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't make it cheap. It has got a science. It has got a form.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Rādhā-vallabha: So he wanted to know that...

Prabhupāda: Knowing or no knowing, they'll not do with him. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll break. They'll promise and they'll break. How you can make them standardized? They will break.

Rādhā-vallabha: They have to be responsible people.

Prabhupāda: They'll never become. That is my experience. So what is the use of consulting me? They'll never become. Almost impossible. They'll not keep standardized.

Rādhā-vallabha: So it should just be up to them.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of consulting? They'll promise and they'll break.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes, you were telling me in Hawaii about that, that that is the difficulty. They have no responsibility. All right, I'll tell him that.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rādhā-vallabha: I will tell him that.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise there is no objection. I married; my wife was eleven years old.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But we want payment here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, they want to know from us whether we want them to remain here after the festival.

Prabhupāda: We have no objection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have no objection. Okay. So as far as the... We want them, I think. If they don't remain here, then what is the use of opening account?

Prabhupāda: Yes. yes. Camak Street, I have got already account.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now so far as the elmira goes, I discussed with them. So their understanding was that once they open their actual branch, they're going to be purchasing all their furniture in Calcutta and bringing it here. So they're just temporarily using it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we don't want to charge them, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "Themself" means?

Rādhā-vallabha: They have a little... In Dallas they a little photostat, and Nandarāṇī would write and they would print it.

Prabhupāda: So it is waste of time, waste of money and waste of time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If they don't learn, what is the use of the book?

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles they are learning how to read.

Prabhupāda: This policy is not good. Why?

Rādhā-vallabha: So before I get involved in it at all, I'll make sure Jagadīśa speaks to you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We should not invest our BBT money in that way.

Rādhā-vallabha: I wasn't going to. That's what I wanted to mention.

Prabhupāda: Strictly. It is not required, unnecessarily investing money. It should be noted.

Rādhā-vallabha: That's what I wanted to ask you about.

Prabhupāda: Before investing money in anything, you should ask me.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Well, the purpose would be that everyone actually take out an assignment that he will take for the year, not that independently a sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, sannyāsīs... GBC as a body, they should give direction to the sannyāsīs.

Satsvarūpa: At a sannyāsī meeting?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of meeting? There are so many sannyāsīs in the GBC. So that is sufficient. Mostly they are sannyāsīs. So whatever they have decided, that should be carried by other sannyāsīs. What is the wrong?

Satsvarūpa: No, not these resolutions.

Prabhupāda: Then why the sannyāsīs meeting again?

Satsvarūpa: For the particular service of each sannyāsī, so he will say, "I want to preach in Africa" or "I want to go to the colleges." Each man write down...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is preference how he wants to work. That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: That's the purpose of that meeting. And then we also scheduled the holding of the bhakti-śāstra exam for being on Gaura Pūrṇimā, the fifth.

Prabhupāda: Next.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am a very big business magnate. Next life, if I am going to become a dog—according to my karma, the nature's law will act—then what is benefit? One day before, Indira Gandhi was so important. Next day I'll maybe(?) nowhere, finished. Nobody knows where is Indira Gandhi. Just twenty-four hours she was most prominent woman. And after twenty-four hours nobody cares to look at her. This nature's law, how you can check? This is going on. Any moment, anything can be changed by the laws of nature. So India's importance is there. They know the law. Therefore so long the body, full of intelligence, human body, is there, they'll utilize it very... That is life, not to be carried away by the waves of nature. This is India's duty. So we want to make our institution at least a place for understanding this knowledge. It doesn't matter only a few persons may understand. That is sufficient. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "If you keep one moon in the sky, that is sufficient for light. What is the use of millions of stars?" Modern education, they are creating twinkling stars, millions. All useless for light. No light. And our Vedic civilization is: "Create one moon. That's all." That is sufficient. We respect, therefore, ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, not the so-called voted leaders. We don't care for them. What is their value? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). You say, "Oh, they are being liked, eulogized, by so many hundreds and thousands," but what these hundreds and thousands of people are? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. They're kept in ignorance like dogs, hogs, camels and asses. This propaganda should go on by the ISKCON movement. Bombay is the nicest place. Invite them. Convince them. We have got answers for everyone, however big scientist, big philosopher, big politician. Bhāgavata has answered everyone. How selected animals' name has been given. This is Bhāgavata. How the comparison is perfect. I have tried to explain why a particular animal has been selected.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I shall go daily in the morning. At seven. And I'll stay there half an hour or more than half an hour.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Guru-pūjā.

Prabhupāda: Those who are visitors, they can see me. And for lecturing, on Sunday I shall lecture. You can fix up time, which time. But Sunday I shall speak from Bhāgavatam. This is general program. And if it is required some special, that is another thing. So what is the use of inviting visitors here?

Girirāja: I agree with that policy.

Prabhupāda: What do you think, Dr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: I agree. Very urgent or some special thing, then it can be done. Otherwise not, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: Generally, people come to visit: "How are you, how you are feeling?" And he takes half an hour even. So what is the use of wasting time like that, "How are you?" Everyone knows that I am not feeling well.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For that they can come in the morning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they actually want to see me, I am going there. They can see me. For half an hour, more than half an hour. And for talking... There is no need of talking "How are you? How you are feeling?" This is not talking.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is another sinful thought—Jesus has taken contract for ridding your sinful activities. That's a plea, what is called plea for the sinners, that they will continue acting sinfully, and Christ will take contract to counteract. This is most sinful conviction. Instead of stopping sinful activities, we have given contract to Jesus Christ to counteract it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So these people are not actually getting free of their sins unless they stop sinning.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of his preaching? They will continue sinful activities, and Jesus Christ will take contract for saving them. How nonsense idea this is! Bhavānanda, do you think it is good idea?

Bhavānanda: Not a good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense rascals. These people should be immediately hanged. "Our religion is very good." What is that? "We cannot stop acting sinfully, and Christ has taken contract. He will save us."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rascals.

Prabhupāda: How rascaldom it is! Nāmno balād pāpa-buddhiḥ. Nāma-aparādha. "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, so no sinful action will be." It is like that. That means "I will continue my sinful activities and become a Christian, become a Vaiṣṇava, become a chanter."

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nāma-aparādha.

Prabhupāda: See whether I am answering correct.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you are answering very good. He gives a lot of quotations from the Bible. So I'll just read you two of them, and it is very easy to...

Prabhupāda: What is the use of giving me quotations from...? We are talking about practical things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The only point I was going to bring out was that it is clear how they misread the Bible. Just like one of them says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. That they don't understand. They say, "We believe in Jesus," but they don't follow his teachings.

Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's all... His next question is, "The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, but the final test of one's faith in Christ rests upon one's hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?"

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the harm if he comes again?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically that is the whole basis of the Christians' faith is they are awaiting the day when Christ will come.

Prabhupāda: For the time being, you follow what he has said. Rather, what is the use of waiting for him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, if you don't follow what he said, then even if he comes he won't take you. He says if that happens, if Christ comes back, what will be the position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? Nasty question.

Prabhupāda: That you shall see when he comes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) That we shall see when he comes. Right. For the time being the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here. Next question: "What is this end of the world?" Then he says, "In your..."

Prabhupāda: The world will be devastated, and everything material... Your body is there. It is being maintained, and it will be finished. Similarly, the whole world body will be done in the same way. There is no other way. It is created, it is maintained, and it is finished. Naśa. It is called naśa in Sanskrit.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: (Hindi) Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhaktivedanta Prabhupāda. (introduces Indian to Śrīla Prabhupāda)

Prabhupāda: Betiye, sit down.

Indian (1): No, he has come to pay respect to you.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But wait. Let him come in. The point is that if you keep yourself in ignorance, then what is the use of advancing further? If your basic principle is calculated wrong, then whatever you construct on that wrong background, everything is wrong. One mistake done in the beginning, then plus minus, plus minus, ultimately it is wrong. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that unless you take seriously what Kṛṣṇa says, you are simply jumping like animals. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, you understand your position, what Kṛṣṇa says. Then go ahead. You do not understand the basic principle what Kṛṣṇa says and you are declaring yourself, "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavad-gītā is my life," and so on.

Mr. Koshi: Would you say that this is a return to this Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This culture is purely Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore we have given the name "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." What Kṛṣṇa said, take it.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is ceremony.

Mr. Koshi: Don't you think that the children should be given freedom to choose voluntarily?

Prabhupāda: Do you want to give freedom to your children?

Mr. Koshi: I am asking you.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the use of giving freedom to a child with a razor? He will cut his throat, that's all.

Mr. Koshi: But at a later age, perhaps when he is better...

Prabhupāda: Later age, yes. That is enjoined. When child is sixteen years old he can do as he likes, not before that.

lālayet pañca varṣāṇi

daśa varṣāṇi tāḍayet

prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe

putraṁ mitravad ācaret

This is the moral instruction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Up to five years, don't chastise, don't take any action. Let him be free. Whatever he likes, he can do. Then after fifth year, for ten years you must be very strict. Then five years and ten years, fifteen. And when he is sixteen years, treat him like a friend. Prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe putraṁ mitravad ācaret. At that time, no stricture that he will break. "My dear boy, if you do this..." This is necessary. And from fifth year to fifteenth year you should chastise the sons and disciples just like tiger. After five years.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: ...so even if they do everything else correct in terms of the body. They go farther and farther from the real solution.

Prabhupāda: Everyone has done this mistake. "I am God." What is the use of the advancement of so-called civilization?

Girirāja: We have to show that this is scientific fact. Otherwise the demons will make propaganda that this is sectarian.

Prabhupāda: "Brainwashed." They say "brainwashed."

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So if he has already talked with Morarji, and he has agreed, then it is great advance.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Good advance.

Girirāja: He said he would be pleased to meet you. He gave a speech on the television last night.

Prabhupāda: Morarji?

Girirāja: Yes. In Hindi. I couldn't follow all of it, but there was a lot of reference to Gandhi and Gandhi's principles and the..., molding the character of youth. So I told Mr. Rajda—I was watching with Mr. Rajda in his house—that this is the real way to fulfill all of these goals, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Mr. Rajda said yes.

Prabhupāda: Then that television speech must be out in the paper.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think simply it is just weakness now. Due to not, you know, it is like a fast. You've been maintaining a fast now for nearly two months.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I like that. If there is no appetite, what is the use of forcibly eating? When appetite will come, we shall eat. Natural. Nature's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we are not at a loss, because we can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am chanting. If I am not writing I am chanting. Of course, sometimes irregularity. What can be done with this physical impediment? Otherwise, I'll either chant or read books or write books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One thing. There has to be more... Yesterday you were questioning if we had an extra quantity of that, er, to fill up your container you have.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a container you have. You asked me if we could take the other container of one of the things that you use... Oh, tooth powder.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you know where it is? It's in...

Bhavānanda: It hasn't been filled up?

Prabhupāda: It is filled up, yes.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And therefore I am so much on the..., that a man, harāv abhakta. He is bhagavad-bhakta. (Hindi) This is another proposition.

bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya

jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ

aprāṇasyeva dehasya

maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam

"Anyone who has no devotional life, for him, belonging to the great family great nation, jāti..." Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ tapaḥ. "All austerity, penance, everything is just like decorating the dead body." Just like a body minus life, so what is the use of decorating with sal and silcram(?). Similarly, any person who may be very highly posted, but if he has no bhagavad-bhakti, then it is decoration.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But what is the use of serving? What you can do? What service you have done? You cannot do anything beyond the laws of nature. Now Indira is in difficulty. What can you do? In one day, everything is finished. The law of nature is so strict. You cannot do anything. You are falsely proud that you want to do. It is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You can do only the service, that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul, your business is this." This is dharma(?).

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham...

(SB 1.5.18)

Now they are declaring... Our Mrs. Gandhi also said, daridra-anadha.(?) Then what she has done?

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We don't say like that. We say that "Here is the remedy for rectifying your suffering, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Come to it." We don't say that "You suffer." We say, "Stop your suffering in this way." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). We are also trying to stop that suffering. But the ordinary people, they do not know how to stop it. Just like the United Nations. They are united, to mitigate the sufferings of the whole human... What they have done? Simply like barking in that assembly with... You go on suffering. Stop suffering. So you must know first of all how sufferings can be stopped. Then you do this, needful. Otherwise, what is the use if you do not know the method? Here is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). I think you have read Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Conversations -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yes. I have...

Prabhupāda: Is there name, others' name, in your original article? Where is that original article?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Well, we have given them a booklet which...

Prabhupāda: Again "booklet." You are publishing article. What is the use of booklet? Why they will take care of a booklet? Take articles and... They have given, asked you, "your city." Where is that article?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: I can't explain it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Asked whether his city would not meet the same fate as Auroville..."

Prabhupāda: "His city." Your city.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...Swami said..."

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yeah, I never said this to him. We didn't even talk about city.

Prabhupāda: So how is that, without your saying, they are publishing?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: He did it in the same way as the other...

Prabhupāda: Your photograph is there. That is also, they have done? Or you have given your photograph?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: They took a picture. I have only given them this picture and this picture.

Prabhupāda: Not a single man's name is there. "The Swami," your photograph... Nothing.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So many complaints.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore change is good.

Prabhupāda: No, you become guru, but you must be qualified first of all. Then you become.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, that kind of complaint was there.

Prabhupāda: Did you know that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I heard that, yeah.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru. Maybe one day it may be possible...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...but not now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall choose some guru. I shall say, "Now you become ācārya. You become authorized." I am waiting for that. You become all ācārya. I retire completely. But the training must be complete.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Men who work, they all come...

Prabhupāda: Cooperative effort.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he called that a joint mess, and he said that some of the disciples were doing that.

Prabhupāda: He knew that. What is the use? Tīrtha Mahārāja's defense was that. "These people..." They were fighting with Tīrtha Mahārāja in the court that "Tīrtha Mahārāja was not good." Tīrtha Mahārāja's only defense was "All right, you want to combine to make a guru. All right, why don't you combine yourself for preaching?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was his defense?

Prabhupāda: That "You want to work jointly, so why you do not work jointly? You are jointly working to harass me. Why not preach jointly?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was their reply?

Prabhupāda: No reply.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it was a good defense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You have joined together to defeat me. Why don't you preach jointly? What do you want? That I shall also join and we shall jointly preach. Do this. You are divided amongst yourselves, and you have joined together to defeat me." Śrīdhara Mahārāja is the leader.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Why you take...? Religion is also, we shall do. As soon as I say religion, you say, "I have got my religion." It is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is equally understandable by Hindus, by Muslim, by Christian. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone knows. Everyone should accept. "Because I am Hindu, therefore two plus two equal to five"—that cannot be. So Bhagavad-gītā was misrepresented that it is meant for the Hindus. If it is meant for the Hindus, why they are coming? What is the use? They were Christians. They were Jews. Why they are coming? It is a science. So we have to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is—science. It is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). But they misunderstand religion. We described in a...

Mr. Dwivedi: And even the present brāhmaṇas also equally misunderstand. For instance, Gītā is compulsory in every institution right from the very beginning. So at one time, because it was compulsory for Muslims, even it was compulsory for the harijanas. I stood excommunicated for some time. Now sometimes complaint goes to the government, "What is solution?" And therefore they say, "Why government should hear you? You are complaining everybody." "This is not everybody. This is..." Gītā is no particular religion's book. It is a cosmopolitan...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Upendra: Yes, Prabhupāda. I was just thinking of... When you were speaking about not eating... We take pleasure in watching you eat. It is our pleasure to see you eat and enjoy the prasādam. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...mentally to keep the brain, little fruit, milk, is sufficient. So I may live only on fruit or milk. There is no difficulty. What is the use of taking cāpāṭis and rice?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, when you have a taste for it, then you should take.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practice. As food value, fruits and milk is sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Habit is there also.

Prabhupāda: All the great saintly persons in India, they used to live in forest. What food? Only fruits and milk. Sometimes they use to take grains. Otherwise milk and... Simple milk is all food, cow's milk. I want to take cow's milk. This is all rubbish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Really?

Prabhupāda: Little cow's milk twice.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean, what is the purpose of... A man is foolish because he's attracted by sex life, but even in marriage...

Prabhupāda: It is foolish, undoubtedly, but there is some concession. But this concession is so restriction that he'll become intelligent, that "What is the use of this concession?" Loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantoḥ. It is not encouragement. The so much restriction means to convince him indirectly that "This is nonsense. Better you give it up." Otherwise why restriction? In other things... Suppose eating bhagavat-prasādam. There is no such restriction...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Once every six...

Prabhupāda: ...that "Once you eat and then do not eat for sixteen months." Is there any such restriction? This is encouraged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But as soon as there is restriction, that means, "Don't do it." Otherwise naturally they have got sex desire. What is the use of giving shastric injunction? That means to control him. The meat-eating... So everyone has got tendency to eat meat, but why śāstra should agree? Restriction means stop. The government's opening liquor shop—so much restriction in a heavy duty. The government charges excise duty. The liquor is produced, utmost, one rupee, eight annas, per gallon. This I know. I know. And government charges excise duty, sixty rupees. So it becomes sixty-one rupees spoiled. Then they have got to make profit. Huge profit government... They haven't got to do anything. The liquor manufacturer, he has to maintain the establishment, and everything he has to do. But when the actual liquor comes, it is there. This is the working system. The excise inspector is there. So unless the... When he takes liquor out of stock, that excise inspector shall come. He has his own key, just like bank, such custody. So in this way... And you have to pay duty first.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, (makes bird noise:) "Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee." Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult śāstra, who is a householder. Śāstra says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth." Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: "Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions(?)." Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, śāstra says, "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot protect your children..." Samupeta-mṛtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you'll be able to protect your children? All bogus. Householder is allowed, as brahmacārī-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. It is not meant that... Big, big personality were householder. Lord Rāmacandra was householder. Arjuna was householder. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a householder.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian woman (5): But it seems to come...

Prabhupāda: That first of all you understand. You have to die. If I think, "Oh, you should not die," so what my, this compassion will help you? You have to die. Then what is the use of this compassion? If you give him something that he will not die, that is real compassion. Suppose if there is a boil here, I am suffering, and you come, "Oh, you are suffering?" is that compassion?

Indian woman (5): But you feel a pain also in your...

Prabhupāda: You feel, but what is the meaning of that feeling? You cannot do anything.

Indian woman (5): No. It is not possible.

Prabhupāda: So this kind of compassion also, it is all useless. It is wasted.

Young man (6): I have... In my life I've seen some people... I haven't seen them all. I have read books, and I've met people that, that, you know, people that don't know. Some know more than others, and what I've seen is that there is always a point in everybody's mind and everybody's being where they draw the line between madness and sanity, between right and wrong, and the question in my mind is: Who makes the rules, and where do the rules come from? Because, I know, any society... For instance, in India there are the Indian scriptures, the Bhagavad-gītā and so on, and this is the basis of all Indian society. In the West there is the Christian scriptures, the Jewish scriptures. And they all have rules. They all have rules right down to the daily conduct of people, what they're supposed to eat, and they don't agree on what people are supposed to eat. Now, does that make one person who does not follow one set of rules wrong by another set of rules?

Prabhupāda: No, first principle is that you have to follow the rules.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Then you are under the rules of material nature. You have to admit.

Young man (3): Ah, but in spiritual life...

Prabhupāda: Why do you jump over spiritual life? First of all try to understand your material nature, what you are at the present moment, that you are on the rules of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That you cannot avoid. So what is the use of making your own rules?

Young man (3): Ah, but you're not understanding the rules of nature.

Prabhupāda: No, that understanding... First of all you have to understand that you are under the rules of material nature, and you accept or not accept, you'll be forced by nature.

Young man (3): Ah, this is understood.

Prabhupāda: That understanding... Then it will be all right. And what is the use of your own rules? If you are forced to accept the rules of material nature, then what is the use of foolish rules? You have to accept. When material nature rules, you must die. You cannot avoid it. You must die. You must change body. You must be. So what is the use of your rules? You can manufacture as a madman. You are completely forced to accept the material nature.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

German man (1): I have no (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So we are preaching that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Our preaching is simple. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme." That's all. We repeat. We don't manufacture. What is the use of manufacturing? I am imperfect. Whatever I manufacture, that is imperfect. So better to repeat the words of the perfect. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said, "Every one of you become guru and deliver your surrounding persons, either you are in family or in neighborhood or in society or in nation, as much as you can." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). So whatever limited circle, you just become guru and deliver them. Deliver means deliver from the ignorance. Everyone is in ignorance, dehātma-buddhiḥ. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we have to teach them that "You are not this body. You are pure soul. Your business is different." And that is enlightenment. That is the business of guru. So we can do that business. And how to do it? That is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You haven't got to manufacture anything. What Kṛṣṇa has already said, you repeat. Finish. Don't make addition, alteration. Then you become guru. Very simple thing. If I say that "My father said, 'This is a bell,' " I am correct because I have learned it from my father, authority. I may be fool, rascal. It doesn't matter. But because I have learned it from the authority and presenting it that "This is a bell," this is perfect. Similarly, I cannot become guru because I am imperfect. My senses are imperfect. I cannot see even what is beyond this wall, although I am very much proud of my eyes. I want to see. What you can see? Imperfect, all senses. But if some authority says that "Beyond this wall this is the..., like this," it is all right. So we have to follow this path, that you become guru, deliver your neighborhood men, associates, but speak the authoritative words of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will act. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We do not manufacture ideas. That has spoiled the whole world. Just like you said about Christ. That he never said "Supreme Lord." He said, "I am son of God. I have brought message of Him." Similarly, our position is that "We have got a message from Kṛṣṇa. Take it."

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: And still more magic? The world is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Boliye?

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

He is yogi. There are many varieties of yogis. And Kṛṣṇa concludes, "Of all the yogis, big, big yogis, the person who is always remembering Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is first class." This is said by Kṛṣṇa, not by me. Therefore it is authorized statement. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all these mystic powers... They may be temporarily some magic, but Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is always remembering Me," satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14), "he is first-class yogi." So all these persons who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa according to the prescribed rules and regulations, without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses. So in the beginning there may be offenses. It doesn't matter. It will be rectified. Offenseless chanting means mukti, and then pure chanting means love of Godhead. There are three stages. In the beginning, when one begins chanting, it is not pure. There are so many offenses. But chanting, chanting, the offenses become purified. Offenseless chanting is not purified completely, but it is offenseless. So offenseless chanting makes one liberated, and then pure chanting makes one lover of God. This is the process. So chanting is definite mystic power. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: (CC Antya 20.12) "By chanting, your heart becomes purified." Ceto-darpaṇa. We are suffering in this material world on account of... (background talking) (aside:) Ask him not to talk loudly. On account of impurities... (aside:) What is the use of talking? The first impurity is identifying... (aside:) Stop him. Don't talk at all.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So you voluntarily accept this cycle of birth; you don't accept Kṛṣṇa. Then who can help you? If you have decided to cut your own throat, how can I help you? You'll do it. Whenever you'll get opportunity, you'll cut your throat. How much I can give you protection? That is going on. They have no faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa. They'll manufacture ideas. It is not "seldom." It is my dog's obstinacy that is checking. We cannot give up. Kṛṣṇa has..., sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That you cannot do. You want to keep in the same position, and at the same time, you want to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. In this Hrishikesh, tīrtha-kṣetra, everyone comes to get some spiritual enlightenment, but who is talking of Kṛṣṇa? Am I right? And there is Gītā-bhavan, Gītā this, Gītā that. What is that "Gītā"? Gītā commentation. Nobody's interested. They don't like to hear even about Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. So mat-para is not seldom. (laughs) The followers are seldom. But Kṛṣṇa says, mat-para. "If you want to practice this yoga..." Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogam... This is yoga. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). This is real yoga. So nobody's interested. Then what can be done? My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "If one is selling langlam(?), and he's canvassing, 'Please come here. Take langlam. There is no price for it,' then people will not take. 'Why langlam he's distributing free?' " So that is the position. We are going to door to door: "Take Kṛṣṇa." They think, "It is very cheap thing. What is the use? Let us practice some other yoga." Kṛṣṇa says, yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). We don't take. So langlam is not seldom, but the person who take langlam is seldom. This is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says, "By this practice of yoga..." Aiye.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?

Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of changing? The same instrument... So our proposal is that unless the limbs are perfect, the end cannot be perfect. So we are presenting, therefore, the limbs of Bhagavad-gītā, perfect, everything. But they are manufacturing their own way. There are so many parties, Ch.D., D.A.C., Ph.D....

Sita Ram Singh: All they have got a party for their own selfish end. Actually though I belong toward the party, but I must (indistinct). Because they have all got their own selfish aims.

Prabhupāda: They are interested to keep the new position of the party. Who is thinking of the public? Public is in the same distressed condition.

Sita Ram Singh: Same distressed condition.

Prabhupāda: Rather, they are more distressed. Take for example, in our childhood my father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees. So we were not very rich men. But we had no want. Father was maintaining his family, getting children married, distributing the wealth. Everything very nice. And we never felt any want. In this mango season, because father saw it that "There must be a full basket of mangoes daily for the children," so we were jumping, playing and eating mangoes. And now, taking consideration of gold standard... At that time my mother was purchasing gold, twenty rupees...

Sita Ram Singh: Per tolā.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian man (3): No, but is there any facility for getting Indian citizenship?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't want citizenship. What they will do with citizen..., Indian citi...?

Indian man (3): Then what is the difficulty?

Prabhupāda: Difficulty is... Let them live here as permanent residents, just like I am American permanent resident. I am not citizen. If I like, I can become citizen. But what is the use of becoming citizen? It is as good as citizen. (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: Within that period they have to go back.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Sita Ram Singh: Yes, of course, they have to go back, but...

Prabhupāda: No, extension... (Hindi) Generally.

Indian man (3): They don't give you this for permanent residentship...

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (3): ...even, say, for two years, four years, five years...

Prabhupāda: No, no. No.

Sita Ram Singh: But this is amended. (Hindi) ...this is amended. This must be amended. This should be brought to the knowledge of authorities.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Sita Ram Singh: Why do they not allow them to stay to serve the mission?

Prabhupāda: So we have no... We don't think anything in the...

Sita Ram Singh: Rajbhai Sampatte, he's a religious-minded man.

Morning Conversation -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: It's increased since they did plainclothes distribution.

Prabhupāda: Encourages?

Hari-śauri: Yeah. The distribution has increased.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you dress like European, half foreign dress and half hair? Who is that foreign and European and gentleman? What is the use of wig? Keep regular gentleman's hair. There is no need of saffron dress. If by ordinary dress you can sell more book, there is no need of saffron dress. So what is the time now?

Gargamuni: 9:30.

Bhavānanda: Kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: Kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Bhavānanda: Would you like to have kīrtana now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...come directly, brāhmaṇas sometimes brahmacārī, gṛhastha. That will impress. (break) ...hodgepodge. Respect is no. Ideals become a leader. He'll do. He'll do. There must be some strong men. Tilaka always must be there. That is our great standard. Kaṇṭhī-mālā. Every fifteen days you should be cleansed. (break) (indistinct) Don't be in all this (indistinct). Go on very nicely. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu Nityānanda, Śrī Advaita Gadādhara Śrīvāsa... (break)

Gargamuni: Well, we only printed two Oriya books. Both were printed in Calcutta so far, because there's one Oriya printer there. Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja is investigating completely the... We went around investigating the presses in Cuttack and Bhuvaneśvara, if we might get some cheaper or easier price. It appears that some things we can do cheaper there, like the inside part, but cover cannot do cheaper there.

Prabhupāda: Cover you can get there, cover.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, why you are accepting old age? You are young man. You have to accept, become. Why you are accepting, rascal? Answer this.

Devotee (3): I don't know.

Prabhupāda: So then why do you talk nonsense? "Why shall I accept?" You have to accept, nonsense. That is the law of nature. Do you think you'll not become an old man like me? "I'll not accept." You have to accept. So what is the use of saying like that, foolish rascals?

Devotee (3): So they must accept that...

Prabhupāda: They must accept. They have to accept.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: You are all young men. Who wants to become an invalid man like me? With three men I have to walk. Nobody wants. But you have to accept. I did not like. But you have to accept, compulsory. What is the use of saying, "Why shall I accept?" You... "Why?" There is no question of "Why?" You have to. That is the control.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might argue that...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argue? I'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like a madman.

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?

Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."

Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.

Devotee (3): But why a dog's body?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, why a dog's body? We have seen that you became an old man from a young man, but we never saw a man become a dog.

Prabhupāda: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tathā dehāntaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration and by your karma.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should not be for that. For the special guests only.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) (break) So now our next business is to bring students, brahmacārī. So easy process is to approach wealthy(?) gentleman. In their family there are many children, one, two, three, like that. So approach them and plead them that "Children from your family are expected to be very respectable boys, character and devotee, educated. From your family, people expect like that. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction, he says, ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. 'What is the use of begetting children like cats and dogs?' The children must be vidvān, that is, learned, and bhaktimān, devotee. This is the ideal. And what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. Either he should be bhaktimān or vidvān. This vidvān and bhaktimān, that is ideal. So we are going to teach your son to become vidvān and bhaktimān. So don't you like to bring your son?" You have to tell them like that. And present it rightly. The Prime Minister and her son or his son, he is debauch number one. Do you think the society can be happy? The father and mother is Prime Minister, and the son is a debauch number one. What is this? That is going on. So we are... "For the good of the society you can send your son to become vidvān, bhaktimān. Then, after some time, you can engage your son in any way. That is the... If they are found it, vidvān and bhaktimān, then everything will be all right. And if gone rascals, then what good for the society? Just think. Am I right or wrong?" You have to convince like that. What do you think about this?

Indian man (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This is the standard, vidvān and bhaktimān.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone. Simply one has to know. And where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. So know yourself, let your sons know, and you become free. Everything is there. So that ideal we want to give to the world. So throughout the whole world we cannot find out five hundred students? So what kind of manager? Hm? This is ideal civilization, that people are suffering mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and stop this repetition of birth and death. That is ideal.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is required. But it will be a failure unless they are taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Gandhi's failure was there. He did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because the material civilization means pravṛtti-mārga, and spiritual civilization nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. So pravṛtti... Suppose he is in the village. He has to work with plow. And in the city, Goodyear Tire Company offering him twenty rupees per day. So he'll see that "What is the use of working with this plow? Let me go to Goodyear Tire." Then here the business will be finished. That is the position of India. So much land is lying vacant because there is no worker, and all the rascals have gone to New Delhi or big cities. And overpopulation? "Give them sterilization." Here there is no men to work and they're sterilization... How the leaders... And who is leader? Another debauch number one, Gandhi, Mrs.... And she has produced a Sanjay Gandhi. Very precarious si... So there will be no scarcity of simple living and eating. We shall give nice food, milk, and place. So bring student and teach them. Then gradually increase. They will preach throughout the whole world. The defect of the society, modern—the rascals are worshiped. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given all in his moral instructions. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Where rascals are not worshiped..." But at the present moment rascals are worshiped. And he says. He was experienced politician. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. "In the society where rascals are not worshiped and food grains are properly stocked..." Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam... Another... Dampatyo kalaho nāsti: "And where there is no quarrel between husband and wife," tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ, "all fortune will come there automatically." Svayam āgatāḥ. You haven't got to pray, "Mother Lakṣmī, please come to my house." She'll come. Three things wanted. You should not give unnecessarily honor to rascals, and you should keep your food grains very nicely, and don't quarrel, husband and wife. Then you become fortunate. Just see. Check how these instructions are there.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Their comforts first. They have done very nice. (Hindi conversation) ...university, but producing hippies. (Hindi) Library in your... It is all nonsense. Who is going to read the books, big, big library? It is simply waste of time. Train them how to become self-controlled, how to become God conscious, how to become humble, obedient. This is required. And so-called education and last result is to become a hippie, what is the use? Simply waste of time. Education is meant for the first-class men. A kṛṣana does not require education. He should see how to plow, and he'll learn. This mistri does not require any... He should work with other mistri, and he'll learn. Architecture, this, that, so many... Why? Why waste your time? This nice building has been constructed by these laborers. They have got training by seeing, by practice. They did not require university education. Of course, guide is there. Of course... So these big, big universities, allowing everyone to come and join school, college—simply wasting time and unemployment. Unemployment. This is not required. Only brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, those who are being trained up as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, they should be given book education. Otherwise practical. You see how the things are being done. Bas. A weaver, he sees "Kat, kat, kat." He's got it. Does it require M.A., Ph.D.? Simply waste of time. And that is going on. I don't want that, for "Kat, kat, kat," M.A., Ph D. (Bengali) "To kill a mosquito, bring a gun." (laughter) Nonsense education. I don't like that education. All right.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Guṇārṇava: You were saying you wanted five hundred students, so we should keep as much space as possible for the students...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guṇārṇava: ...on these floors. If we have administrative offices mixing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to invite them. Otherwise what is the use, for four students, such a building? And simply managers? That is not good. There must be students, not that four students and three dozen managers.

Guṇārṇava: No.

Prabhupāda: It has no... That is waste. Then the whole thing is waste. There must be five hundred students and ten managers. That's all. Then it is good. Is that all right? Mr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Teachers should be so expert that they can deal with many students.

Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, śūdra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had. When, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swamiji, (Hindi)"

Dr. Sharma: Indians also?

Prabhupāda: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Whenever they buy something, it must have value.

Prabhupāda: Must have value. That is Indian investment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the opposite of the Western.

Prabhupāda: And whatever you manufacture, you can show back. Suppose this tape recorder. If it is working, it has value. What is the use of it? Who cares for you? If it is in working order, it has value. Otherwise, (taps microphone) who cares for it? But if you have got gold, silver, metal... There was a small banker's. You require... I am poor man. I require only two rupees, but I have no money. You take one utensil and go to a small banker. He will keep this pot. "Give me two rupees." The pot is only five rupees' worth, so he'll keep it. He'll give you two rupees. So your immediate necessity is... This way, Indian economics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've noticed that the people in the villages, when they come to fetch water, they have very nice pots. The ladies are wearing some bracelets. Gold, I think, it must be.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...

Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpur, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.

Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say, want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense-Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.

Śatadhanya: You are compassionate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tathā vinoda(?). I have done on reality. I want to establish reality, not imagination. What is the use of giving some imaginative idea, just like this rascal Darwin? Everything rascal. No practical value. And he has written volumes of books, and people are accepting: "From monkey, man has come. That's all." But monkey is there; man is there. Where monkey is extinct? The whole theory is absolutely bogus, and people have accepted it. I never believed that. Anthropo... Anthropomor... No? The...?

Upendra: Anthropomorphism.

Prabhupāda: And... What do you call, this science?

Śatadhanya: Anthropology.

Prabhupāda: Anthropology. Anthropology we believe; as it is stated in the Vedas, we believe, one after another. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarāḥ... That is the... The soul is changing. So there is no question of... "Survival of the fittest." Nonsense.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters, sense gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahmā it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?

Śatadhanya: To stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they think this life is all in all, they think better somehow or other...

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They are going all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahātmā Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: No. Nothing. Simply false life, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And these are the people that we are preaching to.

Prabhupāda: That is our duty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You preach to us.

Prabhupāda: In the distinction between two civilizations, they, they want to increase the bad qualification; we want to decrease them.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Human activity should be guided toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress. Very little... (too faint) The same shape, (too faint) they are improving to make straighter, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. That means (too faint). Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our temple?

Prabhupāda: No, no, some public...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that... And even the fact that they got married is more than most people do nowadays. They don't even get married.

Prabhupāda: There is no marriage. And in Bhāgavata says, "There will be no more marriage. Agreement."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sex agreement.

Śatadhanya: And in Switzerland, in the schools, they teach small children, "You should have sex at early age." They teach in school.

Prabhupāda: Switzerland.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Waiting for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're holding back a little bit because it's not sure that we can stay here now.

Prabhupāda: No, training men and they are forced to go away. Very bad government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For no reason. We're not in any way a threat. We're an asset.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say, if the government considers this and do, then we can expect. Otherwise what is the use of meeting with...? Waste of time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: If they do not understand the importance of the movement...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think they must.

Prabhupāda: If they are intelligent, they must. But they are all rascal, rogues, thieves and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa has given you all facilities, so why...? I'm sure He'll give this one also. I just got a notice from... The visa people gave me notice earlier that on such and such date I have to leave, and I have to think how to appeal. They're harassing everybody.

Prabhupāda: You can write that "Our permanent visa is being considered by the Central Government."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our application we turned in.

Prabhupāda: "If required, you can inquire from the Minister of..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Home.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...allowing permanent residence, to suffer for that, that will help us. That will help us. But if they do not do anything, then what is the use of them? What we can expect from them, profit? What we expect? Our real problem is here, that every time, our men has to go out, they kicked out, trained-up men... So if we can at least, as he has asked, submit the names, let us test what they will do. Otherwise what help you expect from them?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only that, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What help you expect from them? For money's concerned, we are selling our books, publication, everything. They are also profiting. We cannot expect any money from government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: So what help we expect?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply some allowing our men to be there like that. Simply allowing our men to remain in the country...

Prabhupāda: That is our request for them.

Bhakti-caitanya: That is why if people appreciate us, then automatically...

Prabhupāda: They are appreciating all over the world.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in In... They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?

Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...

Mr. Myer: No, that will be change of party. One man is in Congress. One is in (indistinct). Then he goes to Congress. Wherever he can get an office, they are changing party. They are not all thinking of the spirit.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Did you know that story, the Nārada was going to Vaikuṇṭha? Nārada came back and replied to a cobbler... Cobbler asked him what Nārāyaṇa is doing. "He has taken one elephant and He's drawing through the hole of a needle like this and again taking." The learned brāhmaṇa, he began to laugh. "These are all stories." And the cobbler began to cry, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, can..." Nārada inquired, "How do you believe that elephant is being drawn through the hole of needle?" "No, why not? I'm daily seeing by sitting under this banyan tree, and within a fruit there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains the big tree." Can the scientists make such small seed contain a big banyan tree? So it is acintya. That's a fact. (break) ...thing is inconceivable. And these rascals want to bring them as conceivable. He's conditioned, and he's trying to bring inconceivable thing to his conception. Useless, futile attempt. How the scientist will answer? We take a fruit. There are hundreds of seeds, and each seed contains a big tree. How you can explain? Is it not inconceivable?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the use of arguing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's better to take the fruit and offer it to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's right. We take it as accepted, mahā-muni kṛte. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām (SB 1.1.2).

Bhakti-prema: Vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu śivadaṁ tāpa-trayonmūlanam, śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate 'tra kṛtibhiḥ śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt.

Prabhupāda: Śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt. There is no other way.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That will not be good. That will create a section of enemy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what he's asking. He thought it would...

Prabhupāda: Satyaṁ vada mā likha. You can criticize them with your mouth, but don't put into writing. That will create a section of enemy. Then we'll have to fight with the enemy one after another. That will be wasting of time and energy. What is the use of criticizing them? They are failure. Failure. Finish. Let us prove by action that all others are failures. And they will be automatically. Just like the Bala-yogi is failure now. (chuckles) Whatever it is. The Transcendental Meditation is going to be failure. And so many others. To criticize them means to give them some importance, that "the rival to Hare Kṛṣṇa." We don't care for them. We go on positively, and automatically they are failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, every time I've seen a reporter say, "Swamiji, what do you think about so and so?" you said, "I do not know about such persons."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And immediately that person becomes very unimportant. You don't even know about him.

Śatadhanya: And then you'd begin to preach.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte, then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Kiṁ vā paraiḥ: "What is the use of other śāstra? Here is the essence of śāstra given by Mahāmuni Vyāsadeva. Take it." That is final.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says that all others are kicked out.

Prabhupāda: Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). All cheating. So if I know... Just like Vivekananda is cheating. Gandhi is cheating. He is cheating. Why shall I waste my time? Actually they are cheating. What do they know about religion? Therefore in the beginning, "I do not know this man."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It really takes the air out of their sails. It really diminishes their position to say that, more than anything else, when you say, "I don't know who they are. Who is that you're talking about? Never heard his name."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is sufficient.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the worst thing you could say about them. There's a very good article he sent. I should read you this review first. The article is also very good. It says, "New religious movements considered likely to last." Now the American people are recognizing. Of course, this is a general article, not specifically about us. But they're understanding that these religions are not going to be driven away. Anyway, this review says, "When it comes to Hindu scripture, the Hare Kṛṣṇas are unabashed fundamentalists." That's a good credit. That's a very good certification, "Unabashed fundamentalists."

Prabhupāda: Unabash, or unbast?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unabashed.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today in the class we read a purport of Your Divine Grace's from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, a very beautiful purport in which the verse says that Bhārata-varṣa is karma-kṣetra. It is the place for fruitive activities. And the other varṣas is where you enjoy the results of those activities. So then you explain the verse, that how the living entity is wandering all over the material universe, but actually he has not improved his condition at all. It is... You explain that it's simply a waste of time. He's not using his human form of life. So when you come on this planet, you should use it to get a guru. Otherwise, simply wandering up and down, up and down.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān (CC Madhya 19.151). This information is obtained by the most fortunate person. What is the use of wandering in this way?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That verse was in the purport. You quoted it there also.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Foolish persons are trying to improve. So what is that improvement? The same struggle for existence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I use that "survival of the fittest," I said, "But who is fit?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What you had said the other... And then I told them, "The four-legged..."

Prabhupāda: Four-legged dog race.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dog race.

Prabhupāda: It is a great poison. Only fortunate person, they can understand what is the value of Kṛṣṇa, only fortunate.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And each place with fifty to one hundred servants.

Prabhupāda: Yes... So happiness, unless Kṛṣṇa gives, there is no question of happiness. Our business should be that we may not be uncomfortably living which will disturb our progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness—that much. Other things? Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants to make you Indra, you become Indra. There is no happiness even by becoming Indra. You... We read from books. Indra is how much disturbed, always fighting, devāsura. He has to fight. The same thing as here. Only difference is the standard of living in the heaven and the duration of life are greater. But if you have to struggle for existence, then what is the use of this duration of life, greater? Simply struggling, where is happiness? So in different planets, in different species of life... I see at night these small bugs. They have got the same happiness. The husband and wife or the male and female together, jumping and having sex, and everything in a different body. And same thing is going on in higher planetary system. There is no other business. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam: eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. But breath must be there. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). So one who is intelligent: "So here is unhappiness. Why I'll have to die?" And that can be solved only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In India the caste system was very good. From the very beginning the children would learn the technology of their paternal. Just like potter. You'll see the children of the potter, they are also making a small bird, a small fruit, and they would be sold. A small playing utensils-small glass, small plate—they're also sold. Other children would purchase. The whole family used to earn something. Nowadays they're sent to school, wasting time, and then unemployment and idle brain. What is the use of sending a potter's son to school?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, everything he needs to know, he can learn at home.

Prabhupāda: That's what I... Similarly, weaver, that cloth weaving, "kat, kat." The wife is spinning, her husband is weaving, the children is weaving, and combinedly at the end of the day there is a cloth. And people were satisfied with simple necessities. They would not charge very much for the labor. And one nice cloth requires half a pound cotton. Half a pound cotton means maybe one rupee. Another one rupee for the labor. So now they are paying twenty to thirty rupees. Unnecessarily he has to earn this money and pay to the millionaires, and he will keep three dozen motorcars, so another man will be engaged in motorcar industry. In this way time is being wasted without any search after spiritual realization. Time is wasted in such so-called technology advancement. And the real purpose of life, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā, that is missing. And when you present that "This is the most important business of life," they say, "It is brainwashing." And they fight to check us, Communists and others, that "It is useless, God consciousness." (break) (long pause) So... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Because they are missing the aim of life, they are committing suicide. And this varṇāśrama-dharma was planned in such a way that everyone would be spiritually advanced. The weaver will get, the potter will get, the blacksmith will get, the brāhmaṇa is already there, kṣatriya will get—everyone. For them, lower-class men, demigod worship. At least they are accepting there is some higher authority. Among the blacksmith there is viśvakarma-pūjā. One day they will wash all the instruments of blacksmith. Somehow or other, all are cleaned. And with the fruit, with flower, candana, they'll worship.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You dig the earth and make it a lake like.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right along the building?

Prabhupāda: No. Throw the earth this side and that side. Automatically it will be like a small canal.

Kīrtanānanda: Put crocodiles. (laughter)

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was somewhat disturbed after the incident, but I'm feeling much better now. After that, in the jail, and I was discouraged, I was feeling, "Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda is working so hard to develop this Māyāpur, and the people don't appreciate it or... What is the use?" But that I think was... That's all gone now. So many people, they're coming, and books are being distributed. Increase.

Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda, when he... Just the day after he left here, there was a letter addressed to him. One gentleman wrote and said, "I am fifty years old and I am a M.A...." He was a professor of something. And he said, "Now my children are all grown up and I'm simply working. So I have heard that you are a pure Vaiṣṇava, so I want to take shelter and serve Kṛṣṇa at your āśrama." So although people are putting in paper so many things, but they are understanding that "No, he is a Vaiṣṇava." So people believe what they want to believe. So whatever... It's all that... The devotees are devotees. When we see people, they always say, (Bengali). They don't believe it that the report is true. Everyone doubts the reports. Only those that are of envious mind, they believe in, because they want to believe that.

Prabhupāda: What... (Bengali)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Jayapatākā: They all think that actually the matter was not properly presented. So they're always asking that "Everything is now all right? Was it actually a fact or not?" In other words, they don't believe the reports that were given in the paper. They feel that, just from their own side, although they don't have any access to the truth, they all have a faith that the thing as it was presented couldn't have happened.

Prabhupāda: So you can sit me up and wash.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I do not know where to be... But get it printed in huge stock.

Bhakti-caru: Calcutta also has all the facilities in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: What is use of telling me?

Hṛdayānanda: What is the use of telling him?

Jayapatākā: He said, "I give an open order to print books. Always have big stock."

Hṛdayānanda: Huge stock, he said, more than necessary.

Kīrtanānanda: It's up to us to figure out where to print books.

Gargamuni(?): I have to put this question, Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā: He already answered that question. Gaura-Govinda, he's already translated sixteen chapters of Bhagavad-gītā in Oriya, and he's translated three small books in Oriya.

Prabhupāda: Let him bring. There is fifty thousand rupees in Orissa.

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-mohitasyāpi to mityarthaḥ)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. As we are trying to defeat the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, we are becoming implicated in Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It cannot be. And better... Mām eva ye prapadyante. Anyone who has reached to surrender to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, māyām etāṁ taranti, he is liberated. He is free from Kṛṣṇa's māyā. Just like government force you cannot overcome. First of all there are laws. Then there is police power. Then there is military power. One after another... What is the use of trying to overcome government power? This is, is... So...

Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-na to iti)

Prabhupāda: Yes. He became defeated by his own attempt.

Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-māyyāḥ to ca)

Prabhupāda: In the next verse it is clear that Kṛṣṇa can't be defeated by any kind of mystic power.

Pradyumna: And there's one on this same verse. Sanātana Gosvāmī says one thing.

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava-toṣaṇī?

Pradyumna: Yes. Vaiṣṇava-toṣaṇī. (Sanskrit-sammohayan to ityatahg)(?) Desiring to...

Prabhupāda: Actually, Brahmā came to bewilder Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is... Actually we seen. Even little power, with scientific knowledge, they are trying to defy, "What is God?" And Brahmā, who is the chief person within the universe, he will become such bewildered, and there is astonishment. And this is the position of conditioned soul.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Doubtful. Dubious. So Prabhupāda has more faith... Another thing, kavirājī medicine is not dangerous. Whereas these men, you can see how many side effects they have, these Western medicines. Prabhupāda becomes dizzy, he cannot sleep, he vomits. And as soon as we agree to x-ray, x-ray is only the first step, then there'll be more and more and more. When you call in a doctor it means you are ready to take his treatment. When you ask for an x-ray it means that after the x-ray you're ready to accept whatever they advise. Otherwise why do you call for x-ray? That's the whole point. So the real issue we have to decide is whether Prabhupāda wants to take the allopathic medicine or not. If he says, "I don't want allopathic medicine," what is the use of taking x-ray? Because the kavirājas don't care for x-rays. They say that simply by pulse they can see everything. Just like this man, he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys. We did not tell him anything, but he took the pulse and immediately he reached for the kidneys and the stomach. And he said, "Kidneys are completely malfunctioning, and the fire of digestion is nearly extinguished." I think that's a very practical statement if you think about it. Prabhupāda, he's passing urine, he can pass stool, but what is the real problem, the biggest problem? There's no taste, no appetite. And that you have to admit, he has no idea how to get appetite, Dr. Gopal. He has no idea. He's thinking this and this. He doesn't even understand there's a fire of digestion. Where does it mention that Kṛṣṇa is sitting as the fire of digestion in the stomach? Where does it say that in the allopathic books? (laughs) It doesn't. But Prabhupāda has said it from the very beginning: "I have no digestion." So the question is how to wake up that fire. And they can't do this, these allopathic doctors. Maybe the kavirājas can do it.

Bhagatji: So there is one Vedic kavirāja in Mathurā. Should I bring him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well I don't know. First of all there's now already two kavirājas involved. Maybe we should first let this rāmānujī do his work.

Bhagatji: Today, he came today.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a kavirāja. Oh, yeah. And Vanamali is coming tomorrow. So I think before you call a third man...

Prabhupāda: No, Vanamali is no use.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No use. Don't even bother calling him. The only question is that we have given him such expensive ingredients to make that medicine. The musk is worth many hundreds of rupees. Gold and pearls. So the real question in our minds is if this medicine is genuine. We want to know whether the medicine he has prepared is genuine or not.

Prabhupāda: He said it is not.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kaviraji's medicine was helping stop the passing of...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kaviraji's medicine is what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Helping through medicine passing of urine. Of course, I'll drink, but what is the use of then the allopathic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, as I explained, the purpose of the allopathic was that during the time when your urine became very dark, we wanted to make it, you know, take away the poisons that were causing the urine to become dark. Now your urine is not dark anymore. That was one main thing. And the other thing was that we were hoping somehow to get you back to more strength, give you more strength by taking away whatever disease was there.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Drinking is very good. Whatever you go, Kaviraji, allopathy, or Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, all of them recommend drinking some liquids or eating. Of course, eating is... You are having a little difficulty eating, of course. Eating or drinking is good.

Prabhupāda: Let kīrtana go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I told them.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38), (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa chants with Prabhupāda) yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Still the śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam is going on; otherwise, simply some bones, nothing else. Everything is finished. Nitāi-Gaura and rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa chants with Prabhupāda) nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ sama... (Bs. 5.39). You can give massage. Hm. So what is the next drinking?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the next drinking? Make something nice.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop it completely?

Bhakti-caru: Not even once a day, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Bhavānanda: All hopes are frustrated.

Prabhupāda: Passing stool now. Cleanse. Making frustrated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why should you stop taking this medicine, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Trivikrama: You've only taken it one time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twice. I don't understand why you say "What is the use?"

Prabhupāda: Use is that I have passed stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But everyone passes stool.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) But everyone eats also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Everyone eats also."

Prabhupāda: If there is no eating, then passing stool means whatever strength you get is gone.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The necessary letters, you have not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he won't be able... The letter will be signed by Girirāja and then sent to you. But the necessary other things I will give you. All the necessary things will be given.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you give him? Why...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm? Give him right now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the use of its sitting here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of his sitting here?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of its sitting here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I can give him just now. Shall I bring? I have it in my almirah. I was going to give it to him tomorrow after I showed him the letter and explained everything. I've dictated a letter.

Prabhupāda: And if he has got business, why he should remain here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I also felt that he should expedite his journey. He should go as soon as possible. Actually I have everything that I need to give him I can give him right now—the letter which will be sent to the bank, and I'll be sending...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: He wants to return as quickly as possible.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So if he's not giving, then stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I said to him if you're getting ten to twenty thousand, either, two things are happening, either you're not getting the orders, then what is the use of spending 800 rupees?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or the other thing is that you're getting the orders but you're not giving any money to the BBT.

Prabhupāda: Then be satisfied with stipends, two hundred, three hundred, live in that house and then like that nothing wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have no objection to paying him if he was doing business but...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I just see he's not doing it.

Prabhupāda: I fully depend on your discrimination. I, if he's not giving bill then just stop it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him that if you do business, you take the 800 rupees but doing business means you'll pay the BBT some bills.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very carefully the... I want they may not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Squander.

Prabhupāda: ...suffer for want of stipend and place. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Do like that and I fully depend on you. If he's not giving business what is the use of?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is spen... I think he's just taking the money and using it for some other business. He can't be spending 800 rupees and not doing any business.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And if he's spending the 800 for travelling and not booking order then what is the use of spending the 800 rupees?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tell him frankly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then stop everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him. I said, "You think about it tonight and tomorrow we'll talk again."

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm. Do everything very cautiously.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not that out of affection we shall squander money.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I cannot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's difficult. This means you will stop practically getting any nourishment at all now. So then we should call the Calcutta kavirāja. Prabhupāda's not being able to maintain his program. So we'll call the kavirāja from Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because now you are not able to keep to the program which he fixed up. And this other kavirāja, he can't do anything this difficult. Usually by this time you've drank about 400 cc's of liquid or more. Today you haven't even drank 100 cc's yet. So in this way you will go back to about two or three weeks ago, when you were planning to depart. So that's a little premature, because we agreed that we will first go through with this program which the kavirāja has given. So now it seems like it's too difficult to do that, so we should call him so that he can...

Prabhupāda: What is the use of calling him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The use of calling is that he... According to him... This is what I understood. The main problem you're feeling is that you have no strength. This is the sum and substance. There's no strength.

Prabhupāda: So how he can give strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can he give strength? Just like makara-dhvaja is for giving strength.

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja was not giving strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was not makara-dhvaja. That kavirāja said that was not makara-dhvaja.

Bhavānanda: And he also said that in your condition now you can't take makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: I cannot take anything. I feel comfort only lying down.

Bhakti-caru: You can take something lying down, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Just a little...

Prabhupāda: That I have taken.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatāka: As much as you have trained us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that is only how much we are experienced. We don't want that you be burdened any more with material management problems but...

Prabhupāda: No, not from that point of view. What is the use of lying down here?

Jayapatāka: The kavirāja said...

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja may say...

Jayapatāka: ...that even that your body is going to, is got a life of six to ten years but he said even a healthy cow, if it's kept locked up inside of a room, then it will deteriorate.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say, (laughs) don't keep me locked up. You do your duty as I have trained you and let me be free and if money required, he'll come and take and go back again as he is coming to take book.

Jayapatāka: What?

Prabhupāda: They have got experience Indian, you can go village to village and, arrangement as you may, but it is trouble taken, and I am no longer, you manage. If I live, I can come again. I shall be very glad.