Prabhupāda: Some philosophers are trying to make these things void. But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment: "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop. If I am in misunderstanding, if I come to the right understanding, that does not mean my understanding is stopped. Rather, my understanding becomes purified. That means if I am not this, then I am this. That we do not know, what is that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So when we are freed from this illusory consciousness and if we are situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we get attachment.
What is the position... (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"what is his position"
|"what is my position"
|"what is now position"
|"what is our position"
|"what is the position"
|"what is your position"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So far Hindu religion is concerned, it is a very broad thinking. The Hindu religion, Vedic religion, is divided into two kinds of philosophers. One kinds of philosopher is the impersonalist. They take the Absolute Truth as impersonal, all-pervading impersonal. And the another philosophers, they take that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person. The impersonal feature is one of the features of that person, but ultimately he is person. So without person there cannot be any question of love. Therefore the section who believes in person... Not believing, they know actually what He is, and there is method how to love that person. The example is given: just like the sun and the sunshine and the predominating Deity in the sun globe, similarly, one who comes to the light, he first of all sees the sunshine. That is impersonal. Then, if he goes further, if he is able to go to the sun planet, that is localized. And if he can enter into the sun planet and see the predominating deity there, then he is a person. So this is a vast science. People are too much engrossed with material activities. They do not try to understand actually what is the position of Absolute Truth, what is the position of the soul. Practically in the present day they are more or less animalistic.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The baby was on the lap of His mother, and they looked little far-off, just to glance over the baby, not touching. Because newly born baby. So they saw from little distant. That's all. And the baby was very beautiful. He was golden complexion. And His grandfather was a great astrologer, His mother's father, Nīlāmbara Cakravartī. He immediately calculated His horoscope, constellation of the stars under which He was born. He calculated that "This boy will be a great reformer."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the position of astrology in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Astrology is a science. Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to do with astrology, but it is the general custom that as soon as a child is born the astrologers come. That is the Indian system, Vedic system.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya, He would cry so that He could hear them chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa to Him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was not on that day, but when He was little grown up. As soon as He would cry, so the neighboring friends of His mother, all young girls would come and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and He'll stop. Sometimes they would tease Him so that He may cry, and they'll see that He's crying, and they'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He'll stop. Again tease. (laughs) So that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was preaching Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting by His childhood activities.
Prabhupāda: Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property. Come on. Enjoy." No. Property's gone. Again he has to make another property. This is going on. So the people do not think that "What I am doing? What I have gained? What is my ultimate aim of life?" This is missing. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍha duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam aśritāḥ (BG 7.15). People are not very serious. They're so much in ignorance that they: "All right, let it happen, whatever may happen. We may enjoy life." But this is not very good position. One should be, at least in human form of life, one should be very sober, considerate (of) what is happening. So out of many fruitive workers like this, one becomes wise: "Why I am doing this?" This is wisdom. That is the platform of knowledge, to inquire that "What is my position? What I am? What is my aim of life?" That is the position of the jṇānī, persons who are wise. And one, when one is fully wise, then bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births, when one becomes fully wise, bahunam janmanam ante jñānavān, when he's actually wise, jñānavān, then māṁ prapadyate, Kṛṣṇa says, "He comes and surrenders unto Me." Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. But such person, such great soul, is very rare.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Journalist (1): You could accept the idea of God in another manner than your church?
Prabhupāda: Suppose... We are giving Kṛṣṇa, presenting Kṛṣṇa, as God, and we are giving God's name, address, place, everything. Yes. (laughter) Don't laugh. It is serious. If you refuse to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, then you present your God. Give me His the address, name and occupation. Can you give me?
Journalist (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then you take from me. Why you are refusing? If you do not know then take it from me. And if you know better than me, you give it to me. You do not know; still, you will not accept. Then what is your position? That you don't want to know God. When I say, "Do you know what is God?" you say, "No." When I present God, you say, "Why shall I accept? It is your God." At least we have got some God. But you know, do not know what is God. So my position is better than you.
Devotee: Also the Olympic games are held in Germany this year. There will be people from all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Games?
Devotee: The Olympic games.
Haṁsadūta: Sport.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Haṁsadūta: A big sport festival in Munchen. (break) And so we have some girls and they have asked us, they want to be married. What is our position?
Prabhupāda: Be married legally first.
Haṁsadūta: Legally. And they will be living outside the temple for sure. Is that correct, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: And with a job and like that.
Prabhupāda: No, they can live in the temple...
Haṁsadūta: But they will live separate .
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (5): The spiritual master, his duty is to take all of his disciples back to home, back to Godhead, and I've heard it said that he doesn't leave until he has taken all his disciples back. What is the position of Lord Jesus when so many people are following but not doing, not in a position to go back to home, back to Godhead? Is he responsible for all of these people, who are attempting to serve him?
Prabhupāda: That is nice question. What is that? Repeat it again.
Devotee (5): Because the guru is responsible for taking all of his disciples back to home, back to Godhead, I was wondering what was the position of Lord Jesus Christ because so many people for so many years have been attempting to follow his teachings, many of them sincere but not getting proper instructions. I was wondering if he is responsible for all of these people who are attempting to serve him.
Prabhupāda: But one thing is we sing daily, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. You have to please your spiritual master. But yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi, if you displease your spiritual master then you are nowhere. How do you adjust these things? It does not mean that because you have made somebody spiritual master, you displease him, at the same time he takes responsibility. Is it very nice?
Devotee (5): Many times...
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Sumati Morarjee: I've been to Lahore. We had a very big office in Karachi. I've been to (indistinct) so many time. Next to, you know the (indistinct), the office area.
Prabhupāda: Now, what is the position of Pakistan now?
Sumati Morarjee: Today that Bhutto is come and gone.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Sumati Morarjee: You know he has left for today for Pakistan back. He came to see the Prime Minister.
Prabhupāda: Here?
Sumati Morarjee: No, our Prime Minister.
Prabhupāda: Oh, our Prime Minister.
Prabhupāda: If one gets a diamond, he possesses something valuable. But in this civilization you are simply making plastic plates and plastic cups. Indeed, in Japan I have seen pasteboard homes. And everyone is thinking that he is advanced. Formerly people used to have golden and silver utensils, but now they have plastic ones, and still they are very proud to be so materially advanced. What is your position? You have a bunch of paper and think, "I am a millionaire." What is the value of that paper? Is that not cheating? However, if we possess gold or diamonds worth a million dollars, that is actual wealth. But we are educated in such a way that we think we are millionaires by paper only. As soon as there is some catastrophe, millions of such dollars could not buy bread. This actually happened in Germany; millions of marks could not purchase one piece of bread. All this is going on in the name of advancement of civilization, and the real purpose of life, God consciousness, is missing. So every thoughtful man should come forward to understand this movement and take it seriously. Why are the people being misled? We just have to try to understand this philosophy, the basic principles of God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Now in Vṛndāvana here is one temple... There is likely that they cannot (indistinct for several minutes) Suppose everything is (indistinct). Therefore accepting (indistinct) how to manage. This is between ourself. Suppose if Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). In this temple also, I am making (indistinct) decision. (break) ...is not in favor of any of the parties. So if it also comes in our hands, it has to be (indistinct). Now, supposing you have got three, then how you shall manage? Simply taking over is no good. Because they are giving, means they cannot manage. That property is very valuable property, Bharatpur place. So they are thinking of giving it over to us because it is not being managed. (indistinct) position is here. So up to now we are strong. But if our, what is called, cooperation becomes slack, then our temple also the same thing will be. That, the (indistinct) that I am staying here for the last ten or twelve years and paying, but the property belongs to the Deity. And there are (indistinct) sevaites. Sometimes somebody starts noting that you neglect sometimes somebody takes money in advance. So what is my position? (indistinct) the rentor may decide what is my position. Actually, in terms of the rentor, I am tenant for these two rooms, and that also. (indistinct) Of course, I have got many (indistinct). But it is sentiment. We (indistinct) these things. This is criminal arrangement(?). Suppose when you the management of all these, how we shall manage?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... While preaching our movement we should take this attitude. We cannot make compromise with anyone. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Caitanya... Lord Caitanya's cult is to preach the instruction or talks about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kṛṣṇa-prema?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. This is Caitanya's cult. Whomever you meet, you talk of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's, that is the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is genuine spiritual movement. Or the human society's movement. Spiritual, cultural, religious philosophical, scientific, everything, complete. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa (pause) So you admit these facts? From any angle of vision, if one does not accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is aimless, bogus. Unless you are convinced, how you can preach? But this is the fact. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) While preaching, you must have your locus standi, what is your position. And you must be able to defend your position.
Paramahaṁsa: Corpse. Prabhupāda: Corpse, yes. You require everything, full body. You require head, you require arms, you require belly, you require legs. But if you have got simply the belly and legs, then it is a dead body. It cannot work properly. The brain is lost; therefore they are mad after so much advancement of civilization. They are exactly like cats and dogs. As soon as you enter some country, dog, watchdog: "Wowf! Wowf! Why you have come? What is your position?" ("Where is your visa?"?) This is dog's business. This is dog's business. (laughter) And they have set up immigration department. But it is a dog's business, watchdog. I say it is watchdog's business. A first-class gentleman is being searched out pocket, whether you have got revolver. Cannot be trusted, all these educated rogues and thieves. So what is this advancement of civilization? It is civilization? No sober man, no intelligent man, all cats and dogs, thieves, rogues. Is that civilization? It is not civilization.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-five years. So they could not get anything, not a single farthing even. Still, they are doing. Just see, obstinacy. Punaḥ punaś carvita. This is called chewing the chewed. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). They will never be successful. So I am a layman. When I wrote that Easy Journey? In 1950, 67. How many years?
Karandhara: Six years.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not 67, 57. Sixteen years before. They are all childish. I am a layman. It will never be successful. It is already written there in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. Here also, that, some press reporter asked me in San Francisco, when I landed, "What is your position about this moon planet?" "It is simply a waste of time and energy. That's all. You cannot go there."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have very big plan in the future, going to the surface of the Mars planet.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is future. That is all your statement, future. With future hope you become a big man. That is their foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Any, any war. They create whimsical... Anything you do whimsically, you are responsible. Anything you do. Why fighting? Anything.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. It's funny that that John F. Kennedy, he started that Vietnam war, and he was shot down later.
Prabhupāda: He started that war?
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: What is the position now? Nixon? He's going to be impeached? Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Practically, he is, without...
Prabhupāda: He's cornered now.
Prabhupāda: Whole America speaks English language. Australia, New Zealand. In India also, practically all educated men, they speak in English. So in Africa. In Europe also, they understand English language. Not very much, but... (laughs) The Germans, especially, they do not like.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes. No.
Prabhupāda: They do not like.
Śyāmasundara: Only at the airport.
Prabhupāda: France? What is the position in France? They don't like also.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No.
Prabhupāda: In Canada, there is two languages, English and French.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he was first-class atheist. Now he has become a dog. Yes, some astrologer has said. He has become a dog in Sweden. A man has got two dogs. Out of the two he is one.
Yaśomatīnandana: Nehru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is quite believable.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes Prabhupāda, it's a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How does he know that is...?
Yaśomatīnandana: It's fortunate to become a dog.
Prabhupāda: Ha? The astrologers, they sometimes approached. Ah, what is the position of this man, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Gandhi? And they say something. So he has said about Nehru like this. Astrologer, he was hesitating, then he said. It was spoken by one very respectable person, Śrīdhara Mahārāja.
Devotee: They can see this body change, but the next life, they cannot see.
Prabhupāda: That means you have no... You cannot see so many things. Does it mean that it does not exist? What is the value of your eyes? That I already explained. You cannot see. Now it is a misty. You cannot see anything. Does it mean your eyes are perfect. How you can see? Your eyes are not perfect. What you cannot see, you have to hear. Suppose in a distant place I cannot see. "What is that light?" I say. But if somebody knows, "Oh, that light is from..., there is a skyscraper building like this, and the light is coming." So I know what I cannot see, I can hear. Therefore what you do not see, next life, you have to hear from authority. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As you have changed so many times in this life, this body, similarly, after death, you will change your body." That is authority. You have to hear. Anything you do not, cannot perceive, you cannot experiment with your senses, you have to hear from another person who knows. That is the process. Why you think your eyes are so perfect that you can see anything? Why you are thinking like rascal? Your eyes are imperfect, and why you are thinking that eyes are perfect? That is rascaldom. I cannot see. You cannot see so many things. Is that a right proposition? I cannot see. What you are? What is your position of eyes? If there is darkness, you cannot see. So does it mean that your seeing is the only evidence? What do you think? Suppose if you are a blind man, what can you see?
Devotee: My senses are imperfect. I cannot see.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: :...accepting a leader, one has to consider what is the position of the leader. They do not take such account. Now they calculate if the leader is very cunning, then he is qualified. They think that politics means cheating, cunning, bluffing. That is good qualification. Lloyd George, sometimes before he came, he said, "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." He must be inconsistent. And here, this is defense. Tasya vartamānasya. How he is situated (break) ...as it was everywhere, especially in India, that if one is not God conscious, he is a third-class rascal. That standard is now gone. Now to become God conscious, to talk of God, is a business of primitive fools. They think like that. Is it not?
Prajāpati: Yes. They say they are realistic and we are not realistic.
Prabhupāda: Who is realistic? The rascals?
Prajāpati: They think that people who believe in God are not realistic.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And what is the realistic?
Satsvarūpa: To work in social reform or politics is realistic.
Prabhupāda: Reform means that continuously reform? Then where is perfection?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have no standard.
Umāpati: We find that our administration and our government is composed of about fifty or sixty per cent lawyers.
Prabhupāda: Like Nixon.
Umāpati: Yes. Pretty much so like Nixon.
Prabhupāda: What is the position of Nixon now?
Umāpati: He's getting more popular.
Prabhupāda: How?
Umāpati: Well, he couldn't get any less popular. So now nothing's happened. So he is the only one available. So he is getting more popular. People forget.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: First of all varṇa. And āśrama, then, when the varṇa is perfectly in order, then āśrama. Āśrama is specially meant for spiritual advancement, and varṇa is general division. It must be there in the human society, or they're on the animals. If varṇa is not there, then this is a society of animal. And when the varṇa is working perfectly, then we give them āśrama. Varṇāśrama. That is later on.
Hṛdayānanda: First they should be taught a skill.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, the whole society must be divided into four varṇas. Otherwise, there will be chaotic condition. That is what is the position now. What is he, what he has to do, one does not know. And there are so many unemployment. But if you organize the society into varṇas, there will be no question of unemployment.
Prabhupāda: Material science? No, no, I am talking of Kṛṣṇa science.
Indian man (2): About the existence of God?
Prabhupāda: Not only existence. What is God, first of all. He must exist. Otherwise, where there is question of "What is God?" So what is the nature of God, what is our position, what is our relationship with God, what is our duty, and what is the goal of life, these things are very thoroughly discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. So if we understand Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, then we understand the whole science of God. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...that Kṛṣṇa comes, descends personally, to settle up the contention whether God is person or imperson. So even the Kṛṣṇa's presence cannot convince these Māyāvādīs, poor fund of knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord is person.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, it's violence for the violence's sake practically.
Prabhupāda: So people are so degraded, and there is no education, and there are so-called leaders. They are themselves degraded, they are themselves blind. So what is the position of the present society? It is very precarious condition. Therefore, at the end of Kali-yuga, people will be more and more, more and more degraded. There will be no more preaching. Kṛṣṇa will come as Kalki avatāra, simply killing, simply killing. That's all, finished.
Prabhupāda: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanātana Gosvāmī placed before... "What I am?" Ke āmi. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (CC Madhya 19.151). Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Sometimes... Means this is false thing. It appears as a big city. Similarly, this is also. This material world is like that. It is a false cloud only, but we have taken it as fact. Just see, it appears just like big New York City. If you go to the forest, you will find some illusion, that just after that tree there is a big house. Have you experienced that?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is called Gandharvapur. So if anyone wants to enter that big city, then what is his position?
Devotee (2): Illusion.
Prabhupāda: The same thing: the conditioned soul enters the big city of material world, and he struggles.
Prabhupāda: Theory? Theory of?
Professor: Knowledge. Ways to approach nature.
Prabhupāda: So what is your decision? What is the position of the living entities?
Professor: (indistinct)
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) She says she's... They're more or less concerned with the theory of knowledge, rather than actually having some knowledge.
Prabhupāda: What is that theory of knowledge?
Professor: Yes. I had been studying the Sanskrit, the texts of Śaṅkara especially, the bhāṣya of Badarāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, theory of knowledge, how it is explained? Every living being has got knowledge. What is that theory of knowledge?
Professor: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Every individual being has knowledge. Even a small ant, it has got knowledge. Knowledge... Of course, development of knowledge according to the body, but a living entity, even the trees, they have got knowledge. They grow... When there is some block, they do not grow that side; they grow this side. Is it not?
Professor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So every living being has got knowledge. The basic knowledge, how to maintain, every one has got.
Guest (1): But at the material level, at the level where people eat their food and live their lives, I think...
Prabhupāda: That is also on account of presence of the spirit soul. Actually it... Whatever little you are doing on account of presence of the spirit soul, as soon as the spirit soul is gone then your body and senses are simply lump of matter. So you are working with that lump of matter on account of presence of the spirit soul. Therefore that is more important. To understand what is that spirit soul, how it is working, what is his position, that, that is real knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins in the Bhagavad-gītā, first lesson, about the spirit soul, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So you are studying the deha, that we are discussing just now. One is studying the motor car but he has no knowledge of the driver.
Prabhupāda: Then? What is the difficulty? Nobody, no sane man, will deny it.
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So these things are there. God is great, we are all subordinate, and we are maintained. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. This is the Vedic information. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So this principle should be broadcast. People should know what is his position.
Reporter: Is the teacher always necessary? I mean, many meditation groups or yoga groups say that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why you are asking? Anything you want to learn, you must go to a teacher. How you can learn independently?
Reporter: I mean just, say, by reading the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Reading Bhagavad-gītā is also taking lesson from the teacher. Teacher—Kṛṣṇa is personally the teacher, and you read Bhagavad-gītā means you take lessons from teacher, the supreme teacher.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is fallen. They are simply amending and concoction. That is not good. Why they should amend? (break) ...himself in what relationship with God?
Yoga student: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.
Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Muhammad?
Yoga student: He presented himself as a man, as considered by Muslims as the perfect man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, judgment is there everywhere. Unless there is judgment, how you can discriminate, "This is spiritual; this is material"? Judgment must be there for intelligent person. Otherwise how you can distinguish? We are distinguishing every moment—"This is good. This is bad"—in the relative world. So there is judgment. So God—the supreme judge. So as soon as there is question of judgment, then what is our position? There must be good and bad, so that if we have lived a very nice, good life, then by the judgment of God we get better position. And if we have not done so, then you get degraded position. Therefore, for human being it is very sanguine to understand how we are going to be judged by the Supreme. So if we are following the rules and regulation given by God, then the judgment will be better. And if we are not following the laws, the judgment will not be in favor. This is natural to conclude. Then we have to judge what is sin, what is piety, how to be pious, how one becomes sinful. So many things will come.
Prabhupāda: No. Atīndriya. You haven't got to use this material (break) ...enjoy the spiritual senses, one has to not only stop, but undergo tapasya, tapo divyam. Just like a man is diseased, he wants to eat, but due to the disease he cannot eat. So first of all, you have to cure the disease, then your eating will be a pleasure. And if you want to eat in the diseased condition, then the taste will not be proper; you cannot eat. A man suffering from jaundice, if you give him sugar candy, he will taste it bitter. The same man, when he is cured, he will taste the sugar candy as very sweet. Tapo divyaṁ yena putrakā śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). You have to purify your existence by tapasya. And tapasya means stops material sense gratification. (Hindi) (Someone enters room) Ah, thank you. So you have translated in Parsi?
Dr. Movebhed: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā... Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā. What is the position of Kṛṣṇa? That you have mentioned?
Dr. Movebhed: I have to listen to you.
Prabhupāda: Why you shall listen to me? The Bhagavad-gītā is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is fallen. They are simply amending, concoction. That is not good. Why they should amend? Mohammed presented himself in what relationship with God?
Guest: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.
Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Mohammed?
Guest: He presented himself as a man, was considered by Muslims to be the perfect man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Our aim of life should be the realization of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because at the present moment we are part and parcel. Just like a son, he has got the symptoms of his father, but he does not know who is his father. He does not know who is his father. There is a Hindi proverb, bap ka beta sipaika gora kusnaita tora tola: "The son inherits the quality of the father, but if he does not know who is his father, then what is his position?" That is going on. The scientist, he is trying to create something, but he does not know the supreme creator. Do you follow? Now the scientists are trying to create living being in the laboratory. But he does not enquire that who has already created so many millions of living entities? He is trying to create a living entity in laboratory. Suppose he creates one living entity. Then what credit is there for him? But he is spending lakhs and crores of rupees.
Journalist: Civil what, sir?
Prabhupāda: In the civilized human society there is some system of religion. So that system of religion means try to understand God. Religion means the law given by God. So civilized human beings, they are trying to understand God and His laws. That is called religion. Now the difference between dog and me is that I can try to understand what is God, what is my position; the dog cannot understand. Dog means the animals. They cannot understand. So that is the difference between a human being and a dog. If we give up religion or the method to understand God and our relationship with Him, then we will remain dog. Then we remain dog. We are not human being. So at the present moment the so-called human society, civilized human society, is giving up the conception of God, understanding God, especially the Communist party. They are openly declaring that "We don't believe in God." But those who are not Communists, they, lip sympathy, they say that "Yes, we believe in God," but actually they do not believe.
Prabhupāda: They can do it—that is credit. But what is this credit, that people are dying and you discover atom bomb to accelerate death very quickly? If they are thinking like that, then sanity is coming. At least, they are thinking like that, that "Why death should not be stopped?" That will be credit if they can do so, but at least this question, it comes. Then they become human being, not dogs. And so long this question does not come, they are cats and dogs. This is athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the inquiry. Sanātana Gosvāmī when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu he first questioned this, ke āmi, keno more jape tāpa-traya: "I was minister. That's all right. But I do not know why I shall accept death. Therefore I have come to You." This is minister, intelligence, that "People praise me, I am minister, I am very learned scholar, but I do not know why I am under the tribulations of three-fold miseries, and what is my position." Ke āmi, keno more jape tapa-traya: "Who I am? I don't want all these things, why they are troubling me?" Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tai satya kori mani: "These fools and rascals, they call me, I am very learned scholar, and I also accept it, but I do not know why I am suffering." This is Sanātana Gosvāmī's question. So what they are doing? They are making research?
Revatīnandana: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Who are they? Very important men?
Prabhupāda: And theology is science of God. So what is that science? You are trying to understand God, or you know God; you are going to abide by God's dictation. First of all, two things: you do not know God; you are trying to find out God. I think this is not theology; it is theosophy. Those who are trying to find out God by speculation, they are theosophist. And theologist means one who knows God and abides by his order. Just like we know government and we accept the government's law and abide by it. That is good citizenship. And those who have no government, they are trying to find out some good system of government, and that is another thing. So what is your position? You know God or you are trying to find out God? What is the theologician's position? That is my question.
Dr. Crossley: It's both.
Prabhupāda: No, both cannot be.
Prabhupāda: What is the position of Bhagavad-gītā? Macmillan, you are not taking supply, so they have stopped?
Jayatīrtha: We've informed them that the..., we want to make the..., because they no longer have it in print, that the abridged edition, we want to break the contract.
Prabhupāda: No, that is already, they have permitted. Anyway, you can...
Jayatīrtha: But as far as the other one is concerned we have a stock on hand.
Prabhupāda: What they are doing?
Brahmānanda: They're picking the papers.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He's earning forty dollars daily?
Jayatīrtha: At least.
Prabhupāda: So we have no objection.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: That is all right. So there is a spirit soul in every...
Prabhupāda: No, no. All right or not all right I don't say. But if they say like that, we have no objection
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the understanding to find out what life is is just to study what a cell is. That is their... They say that cells are composed of these molecules.
Prabhupāda: What is the position of the cells when the man dies?
Svaupa Dāmodara: The cells are dead. The cells that compose the body, they are dead. There are may be new living entities coming from different parts, but the cell that composed the human body is dead. They cannot reproduce anymore.
Prabhupāda: So what is your proposal? That cell is life?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So can you develop life from the cells? As you said that you take the skin and you keep, so take the cells and develop into life.
Prabhupāda: ...scientists do not manufacture brain and give it to a stone, and he becomes a scientist. Why do they not do that? Manufacture. You have got so nice brain. Now manufacture another brain and put it on the stone, and he becomes that, what is called, Frankenstein? (laughter) Why they are not able to create another brain? What is the answer?
Jayatīrtha: They haven't been able to get sufficient research grants from the government.
Rāmeśvara: They need more money from the government to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say they will do it.
Prabhupāda: And then what is his position? Who has created his brain?
Rādhā-vallabha: This just came in the course of evolution.
Prabhupāda: So then why you are talking so much? It will come, everything. Why you are wasting time. Let it come everything by evolution.
Prabhupāda: Then you can protect from death? Can you?
Brahmānanda: But can God protect? Even Jesus Christ, he was killed.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are faulty. But you are so advanced. Do you protect yourself from death? We are faulty. That is your decision. That we admit. But what is your position? Protect yourself from death. At any moment death can take place. How you'll protect yourself? Therefore we take protection of God. That "God, You can kill me at any moment. You can save me also." Therefore we are intelligent. But you cannot protect from the onslaught of God. We admit God is great, but you do not, although you will not be protected. You cannot protect yourself from birth, death, old age and disease. So what is the meaning of your protection?
Brahmānanda: So both the devotee and the nondevotee, they are both in the same position.
Prabhupāda: So that you do. There is no harm. There is no harm. But you should understand what is Śiva and what is Viṣṇu. If you offer first prayer to Lord Śiva, there is no harm. It is good. He is... Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ. He is our spiritual master. He is Vaiṣṇava. Why not offer first respect to him? But if you take Lord Śiva as the Supreme, that is insult. You are giving me respect as spiritual master, but if you give me overestimation, that "You are the king of the whole world," that is insult. That is insult. That is not prayer. If you offer me prayer as I am befitting, then it is all right. But if you give me prayer for which I am not befitting, that is insult. That is insult. So you must know what is the position of... Lord Śiva is Vaiṣṇava. He is the greatest devotee. He is the number-one demigod, and everything is all right. But if you say that he is the Supreme, then he will feel insulted, that "What is this nonsense saying?" So don't insult him in that way. That will go against your credit. He doesn't like that.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the first proposition, that if you keep people in darkness—he does not know what is his future—then what is the use of education and university?
Indian man (2): So do you mean that the university should be abolished?
Prabhupāda: Not abolished. But education means that you must know what is your position.
Indian man (2): With due respect, I want to know what is the line of demarcation between science and religion.
Prabhupāda: Science means which is applicable to everyone. Religion is described in the dictionary, "a kind of faith." Faith... I may be Hindu today; tomorrow I may be Christian. That is... I can change.
Indian man (2): But this is not the definition of true religion.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not talking of religion. I am talking of science. Religion is a kind of faith. You may be believe or you may not believe.
Harikeśa: So I have to accept all this on faith. Prabhupāda: Not faith, it is practical. You are so foolish, you do not understand. Unless you are qualified, you cannot see anything. So you have to qualify. It is not faith. Disqualified. You are disqualified.
Prabhupāda: That also a human being does. You know in concentration camp in second war they had to eat their stool.
Dr. Patel: But the British army had a regulation that they could drink urine but not stool. They cannot eat.
Prabhupāda: You may make regulation, but necessity has no regulation.
Dr. Patel: I.... because I happen to be.... I, I was holding the honorary position of a colonel in the army...
Prabhupāda: Just see, "I am making law: you can drink urine." Just see what is the position. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: In difficulty if there is no water, you can drink your own urine, but you cannot eat your stool. It is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: If I drink urine, still I will have to be punished. By the law. I'm drinking urine, and because I have violated law, I will have to be punished. This is God.
Prabhupāda: But physics, physical law, also, you are studying with your imperfect senses. So how far it is perfect? Just like the physical laws. There is heat in the sun, temperature. So you are seeing from long distance, and you are suggesting, "There cannot be any light." So this is imperfect.
Harikeśa: Well, what about the law of physics...? Oh, it's going to run out of tape. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...no practical experience, actually, what is the position of the sun, because you cannot go there. So I may theori.... Here, here.
Hariśauri: Do this side first and then that side.
| Page Title: | What is the position... (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 30 of Oct, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=46, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 46 |