Prabhupāda: We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving. If I do not belong to this body... I call myself an American or Indian... (coughs) (aside:) Water. Because accidentally this body is born on the land of America, therefore I call myself American, but if I am not this body, then how I am American? This is another misgiving. Yes. Then I am calling you as my son. You are calling him as your son, but what he is? He is a product of your body. So if you are not this body, how he is your son? In this way you go on. As soon as you study nicely that you are not this body, you will find that you belong to none of these. You are free. You see? This is called Brahman realization, spiritual realization, this stage, when you understand that "I am not this body. I do not belong to this country. I do not belong to this family. I do not belong to this society." This is negative. Some philosophers are trying to make these things void. But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment: "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop. If I am in misunderstanding, if I come to the right understanding, that does not mean my understanding is stopped. Rather, my understanding becomes purified. That means if I am not this, then I am this. That we do not know, what is that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
What I am? (Conversations 1968 - 1977)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gargamuni: What is the perfection of this life?
Prabhupāda: The perfection of this life is to understand oneself, what I am. This is the beginning. Why I am suffering? If there is any solution of this suffering? And there are so many things. These questions should be there. Unless a man is awakened to these questions, that "What I am? Why I am suffering? Wherefrom I have come, and where I have to go?" then he's considered on the animal level. Because animals, they have no such questions. It is in the human form of life these questions are there. And their answers are all there in the scriptures. So if we are inquisitive and follow the answers from authoritative sources, then the solution of life is there.
Caller: Yes. Swami, you say you have to know yourself. Now, how does a person go about knowing when he knows himself, who he is and what he is. In other words, when does he reach the stage where he says, "Hah! I know where I am and what I am."
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are two different processes of acquiring knowledge. One process is to research oneself by his own endeavor, by his limited sense speculation. And another process is to know from the authority. Just like deductive process, we say, man is mortal. This knowledge is received from higher authorities, just like our teacher or parents, we understand that man is mortal. Another process is one can make research whether actually man is mortal.
Caller: Well, is there some kind of a spiritual signal you get within yourself that tells you this?
Prabhupāda: No, your question is what I am? So this what I am, you can search yourself by your mental speculation, that is one way. Another way to understand your position, from higher authority. So we take this process. We understand what I am from higher authority, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that He is God, and He says, "All these living entities are My part and parcels." So we are component parts of the Supreme Lord. Therefore as the component part of machine is to cooperate with the full machine, so our duty is to cooperate with the Supreme Lord. That is our identity.
Interviewer: Caller, you're on the air on KGO with the Swami.
Caller (woman): Ah, yeah. I'm not involved with it, but I'm curious. I'm wondering if there's any similarity between meditation and hypnosis? In other words, the hypnotic state?
Interviewer: Or is meditation self-hypnosis? Is that what you're asking?
Caller: Is it similar? It sounds like it might be.
Interviewer: Swami?
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is self-hypnosis.
Interviewer: Hypnotizing yourself.
Prabhupāda: No, it is no question of hypnotizing. Meditation means to search out what I am. Just like if you sit down quietly, if you see your body, first of all see your finger, and question whether I am hand? You'll say, no. Whether I am this head? You'll say no. Whether I am this leg? Because everywhere I will say, "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my sole." Everything "my." So you have to find out what is "I."
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So now people do not wish to consider also this point, that "If I am eternal, if I am changing my place, my dress, my occupation every fifty years or ten years or twelve years according to the dress..." The cats and dogs, they live for ten years. The cows live for twenty years, and the man lives for, say, hundred years. Trees lives for thousands years. But everyone has to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As we have to change our old dress, similarly, this body has to be changed. And we are changing. Changing every moment. That is a fact. This boy will grow also some day like you, like me. This body will not stay. I had a body like this, say, fifty years ago or sixty years ago, but that body is now missing. I have got a different body. So everyone is changing body in this way. We do not know where that body gone, but ultimately also, we shall change, and we shall enter another body, and again we have to begin new set of work, leaving all aside. Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property. Come on. Enjoy." No. Property's gone. Again he has to make another property. This is going on. So the people do not think that "What I am doing? What I have gained? What is my ultimate aim of life?" This is missing. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, mūḍha. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍha duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam aśritāḥ (BG 7.15). People are not very serious. They're so much in ignorance that they: "All right, let it happen, whatever may happen. We may enjoy life." But this is not very good position. One should be, at least in human form of life, one should be very sober, considerate (of) what is happening. So out of many fruitive workers like this, one becomes wise: "Why I am doing this?" This is wisdom. That is the platform of knowledge, to inquire that "What is my position? What I am? What is my aim of life?" That is the position of the jṇānī, persons who are wise. And one, when one is fully wise, then bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births, when one becomes fully wise, bahunam janmanam ante jñānavān, when he's actually wise, jñānavān, then māṁ prapadyate, Kṛṣṇa says, "He comes and surrenders unto Me." Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So anyone who does not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has no knowledge of Gītā. He immediately becomes foolish. That is our test. So Muktananda, what do you think?
Muktananda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the test, whether he has understood. In the Seventh Chapter,
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
"Anyone... How one simply by concentrating his mind upon Me," mayy āsakta, "with āsakti..." Āsakti means attachment, love. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ. Mind attached to Kṛṣṇa in love. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. And performing the bhakti-yoga, mad-āśrayaḥ, under the disciplinary action by a bona fide spiritual master, mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ: "Then he can understand without any doubt and fully what I am." That means one who has not understood Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has not found the yoga properly. And why? That is mad-āśrayaḥ, he does not follow the disciplic succession. Mad āśrayaḥ. And in the beginning, in Fourth Chapter it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). So these foolish persons, they do not follow all these principles; therefore they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone... We say... It may appear to be very strong word but that's a fact. (Hindi) That's a strong word, that's all right, but he's a chor. (Hindi) Strong language used here... (Hindi)
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: The chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, seems to play a very important role in the profession of your religious belief. Right? In fact, I think I will ask you and some of your followers who are sitting here with us tonight a little bit later to chant the name of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: That probably would be a proper ending to this particular program. However, I'm still wondering, you know, about some of the aspects. In reading a little bit... I have not read much, of course, but in reading a little bit about your beliefs and your writings, your magazines, your publications...
Prabhupāda: I may correct here that it is not my belief.
Interviewer: Well, as you interpret it in your writings. Let me put it that way. It seems to me, sir, that there is a very high emphasis placed on the relationship between the individual and God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Interviewer: Much more so than upon the...
Prabhupāda: That is for everyone.
Interviewer: Yes but more emphasis on that relationship than on the relationship between one individual and another individual. Am I right in that?
Prabhupāda: No. We have to establish first of all our lost relationship with God. You see? Then we can understand what is the relationship between one individual to another. If the central point is missing, then there is practically no relationship. Just like you are American. Another is American. Both of you, you feel American nationally because the center is America. So unless you understand God, you cannot understand what I am, neither I can understand what you are. So we have to first of all reestablish our lost relationship with God; then we can establish, talk of universal brotherhood. Otherwise there will be discrimination. Just like in your country, or any country, the national... National means a man born in that land. Is it not? But they do not take the animals as national. Why they have no right to become national? That is imperfect knowledge. There is no God consciousness. Therefore they think only the man born in this land is national, not others.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Only intelligent person can understand. If you can understand, then you are intelligent. Are you understanding or not?
Yadubara: No. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Then why you are not understanding yet? We have given free scope. What is your reason of not understanding?
Yadubara: I think I understand a little bit, gradually.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Even if you understand little bit, that will give you great benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato. If you understand little, that means your door is open. Just like sometimes there is boil. If little mouth is open, that means that is the beginning of oozing out all the pus. It will gradually open, and that is the natural venue. Open and it will be cured. So little understanding is also very good. Then you will understand further. What you have understood now?
Yadubara: What have I understood? I understand that the chant has potency, has some meaning for me. And I understand on the basis of what I've done before, on the basis of my experience, what I've seen around me, I've seen that conditions are not good. And I've seen the conditions in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are much better and the feeling is much better.
Prabhupāda: That is very good sign. Yes.
Yadubara: So I think it must have some worth. There must be something here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can discuss with these boys and girls. Try to understand. Here there is nothing dogmatic. Even something appears to be dogmatic, it is not dogmatic.
Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Yamunā: Even if we have dog's obstinacy, if we just associate long enough, then it will act upon you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if we open our heart, then open-heartedly, then it will be nice. No reservation. And that open-heartedness means free from designation. That is open-heartedness. If I think, "Oh, I am American. Why shall I take this Indian philosophy?" Or if I think, "I am Christian. Why shall I take the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā?" then it will not work. One has to be free from these designations. Then it will be easy. I am... God is God, and I am also part and parcel of God, my relationship with God. So let me understand what is that relationship, what is God, what I am. That freedom, that open-heartedness will make it. But if I try to understand as Christian, as Englishman, as Japanese, as Indian, then it will be difficult. Many of our students joined, even initiated, but they could not make them free from these stereotyped ideas. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One must be free from the... Aiye aiye. So let us go. Take the box. (break)
Śyāmasundara: The more scientists investigate the workings of nature, the more complicated it becomes. They can never understand it.
Prabhupāda: No.
Śyāmasundara: They think it's complicated, but still...
Prabhupāda: Not complicated, it is perfect.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they have no brain to understand.
Śyāmasundara: It becomes more complex.
Prabhupāda: Just like any ordinary man, how this tape recorder is working? There is a process. But because we have no brain, we think "How it has become? How it has become?"
Śyāmasundara: It's so complex to us.
Prabhupāda: So one who does not know, it is complex. One who is in knowledge, for him it is not complex. Therefore, Bhāgavata says anvayād vitarekabhyam(?). Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is completely well versed. Kṛṣṇa just like says, "Yes, I spoke this philosophy millions of years. I remember; you have forgot." There we have to study, how Kṛṣṇa's brain is. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Yes, I spoke." When Arjuna defied, "How can I believe that You spoke millions of years ago this philosophy to sun-god?" "Yes, that's a fact. You also were there. But I remember, you don't remember." The child, just like father says, "My dear child, when you were two years old you fell down and there was a fracture in your brain." "Yes?" He cannot remember. The father can say, "Yes, it happened. You have forgotten. I remember." This is practical. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can remember everything, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). You may not remember. You have no such brain, you are teeny. But why should you defy Kṛṣṇa? Why should you deny the facility for Kṛṣṇa? That means you are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, He is like me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Because you are rascal, you are thinking Kṛṣṇa is like another rascal like you. That is poor fund of knowledge. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). "Because they do not know, rascal, what I am, what I can do," avajānanti, "they think, 'Kṛṣṇa is like me.' "
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma. Svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. The result will be... By executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time. You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion, or that religion. It doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena paricīyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That... That is wanted. So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian. We want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brāhmaṇa or this or that, it doesn't matter. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time.
Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim. It is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim." This is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity. So people should be taught this science. As soon as one understands his constitutional position, his actual situation, then he says, "Oh, I am not this. I was struggling so hard under some misidentification."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By forgetting my real relationship, I tend to rule over the laws of material nature.
Prabhupāda: That I am struggling. That is my business here. I am simply struggling. Laws of nature is obstructing my process of enjoyment, and I want to enjoy. Why this position? We inquire these intelligent questions. What they are inquiring? They do not know what to inquire.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Fools. Animals.
Brahmānanda: Sanātana Gosvāmī also asked that question to Caitanya Mahāprabhu...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, that is the question of human life, that: "I want to enjoy. Why there is obstruction of my enjoyment?" Then the next question will be then what I am and what is this nature? These are intelligent questions. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. Where shall I eat? Where shall I sleep? These are very minor questions. They are questions for animals. For the human being, this is the question, that "I want to enjoy life. Why there are so many obstructions?" This is human question. The animals, they do not question. They submit. Just like when you slay one animal, it submits. But a human being, there is law because human being is intelligent. So you cannot kill any other human being, you cannot murder. Then you'll be hanged. But they cannot make law. They're lower grade animals. They submit, somebody killing. But the objection is there, both by the human beings and the animals, that the: "Why you are killing me?" But he's helpless. The man has invented some means. So they have made their laws. But both of them are objecting. In your, in America somewhere, when I first came, there was some incidence that in a live store, they got some opportunity to flee away. Then all the cows were fleeing away. And they were shot down. They were stopped. They knew that: "We are stocked here for being killed." So they got some opportunity, going away. And there is always miserable condition. Just like why you have covered so much? Why you have spent for covering? This is also miserable condition. Miserable condition. In some other place, they are...
Prabhupāda: A neophyte or anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. There is no question of enjoyment. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does not enjoy. He simply suffers. But he takes the suffering as enjoyment. That is māyā. That is māyā. Just like in your country, they are working day and night. Just like from the morning, gugugugugugugugugu (makes noise of machine that is on nearby) They are suffering, but the people are coming, enjoying golf. That is suffering only. From the morning, going here, is it not suffering? (laughter) But he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is māyā.
Umāpati: Just like the doctor's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is māyā. He is suffering, but he's thinking I am enjoying. So any conditioned soul, he doesn't enjoy anything. He simply suffers. But he thinks that he is enjoying. Therefore the camel, camel example is given. Camel example. Camel, he is eating his own blood, eating thorns, and the thorns cutting the tongue, and from the tongue, blood is oozing out. So when the blood is mixed up with the thorny twigs, it becomes little tasteful, and he is thinking "Oh, it is very nice." Similarly, all these gṛhasthas, enjoying sex life, he is discharging his own blood, he's becoming weaker and weaker, he is thinking, "I am enjoying." He is thinking, "I am enjoying." And if he uses more, then he becomes diseased, tuberculosis. He is dying by that process, but he's thinking, "I am enjoying." Therefore it is example for the camel. He is enjoying his own blood by discharging. One drop of semen is made out of so many drops of blood. Do you know?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Forty drops.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And how many, how much drops of semen he is discharging... That means he's spoiling his blood. But he is thinking, "I am enjoying." Would you like to, by giving your blood to enjoy? Would you like?
Umāpati: No, I don't think I'd like.
Prabhupāda: But you are doing that, every night. And that is called māyā.
Umāpati: I'm a brahmacārī, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No, you are...(laughter) I am giving an example. This is going on. He is going to die. He has adopted a process by which he will die, and he thinks that he is enjoying. This is called māyā. Māyā means things which is not, māyā. Mā means not, yā means this. "What you are thinking, it is not that." That is called māyā. So they are in māyā means, they are thinking, these rascals, they are thinking, improving, becoming happy, advancing this māyā word will finish everything, mā, yā: "Not this." Bhāgavata says that "You are thinking you are becoming victorious, but you are being defeated." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. These rascal, abodha-jātaḥ, born fools and rascal, they are becoming defeated in every step. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he does not inquire about his self, "What I am," he is simply being defeated. That's all. This is the verdict.
David Wynne: And George now has gained enormously in spiritual steps.
Prabhupāda: He's a very intelligent boy.
David Wynne: Oh yes. But he now is wise as well as just clever.
Prabhupāda: He's fortunate.
David Wynne: And so, from this I think...
Prabhupāda: No. Śyāmasundara has tried his utmost to convince him about Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: He said, "Other religions... (break) ...come for a short time." (Breaks in tape)
Prabhupāda: Give him little, some more purīs.
David Wynne: No, I'm all right, really. I'm doing very well.
Śyāmasundara: ...and something to wash hands in. (door closes)
Prabhupāda: No, he's bringing. You can take.
Śyāmasundara: David has said that he would like to spend some time, a day or something, making also your form into stone. Is that...? Or into some metal. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Well, what I am? I am insignificant. I have no objection. Our, some of our artists may paint this picture. I liked it very much. (Probably speaking of picture of Ratha cart in the Guardian newspaper)
Śyāmasundara: It's a very good photo.
Mukunda: It was taken in such a way so that the cart looks like it is almost as tall as Nelson's Column. Fish-eye lens.
Śyāmasundara: Very clever person who has thought up this idea.
Guest (5): (Sanskrit:) Viśvambhara para dṛśyamānaṁ nagarī tulyāṁ na janāntara-gataṁ, paśyam ātmani māyayā bahir ivodbhuḥataṁ yathā nidrayā, yaḥ sākṣād kurute prabodha sameya svātman eva advayam, tasmai śrī guru-mūrtyenam etaṁ śrī taksna mūrtaye.(?)
Prabhupāda: (chuckles.) Yes. So this education is wanting. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As soon as one understands that "I'll have to change my, this body; then what kind of body I'm going to get next life." That next inquiry will be. Then he is intelligent. Then he is intelligent. Just like one man is working somewhere. Now, notice is given that "From such and such date, your work will not be required." Then you become anxious to know: "Then what shall I do next." I have to work. So similarly, if a person understands that he's going to change this body... Just like I'm an old man. I'll have to change in, say, immediately, or say five years, ten years. But the notice is already there because I am old man. So it is my duty to think: "Then what body I'm going to take next?" That is intelligence. And we have to prepare for that. So that is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can prepare yourself to go the higher planetary system, where demigods live. Pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. You can go to the Pitṛloka. Bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā. If you want to remain within this planetary system,... yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām. "And anyone who is engaged in devotional service, he comes to Me," Kṛṣṇa says. So why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). "If one comes to My place, he never comes back again in the material world." That is intelligence. Why not go back to Kṛṣṇa? But they have no intelligence. They're spoiling their life, simply living like cats and dogs. This is the position. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to save them, that "Don't go again to the cats and dogs category; go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa." There is... Here is the possibility. Kṛṣṇa says. Why don't you take advantage of this? Kṛṣṇa says: janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who tries to understand Me, Kṛṣṇa, what I am..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, one stops his rebirth in this material form. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are training people that "You have to take another body. So what is the use of taking...? Even if you take the body of demigod, like Brahmā, millions of years age..." That is stated in the Bhag ... ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).
Prabhupāda: Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): Higher intelligence, I think.
Prabhupāda: What is that higher intelligence?
Guest (1): Speech and ability to compute what you hear.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that, dog can also do. If you train dog that "If somebody, outsider comes, you bark," he'll do it.
Guest (2): The consciousness is...
Prabhupāda: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there.
Prabhupāda: Suppose just like I tell you that a dog is your servant. It is standing on the door. Some thief is coming. If the dog becomes angry, "Baw! Gaw! Gow!" so that, to become angry is not bad for the dog...
Father Tanner: No.
Prabhupāda: ...because he's serving the master. So similarly, if you are fixed-up in your business as servant of the Lord, so even if you become angry for Lord's service, that is not bad.
Father Tanner: But you..., the dog might bite his master.
Prabhupāda: No.
Father Tanner: Yes, he can.
Prabhupāda: I don't think a... Anyway, that is dog. I... That's a crude example. But a spirit soul, when he's fixed-up in the service of the Lord, he does not bite his master. (laughter) He does not... He only serves. So we must know, if I actually love myself, first of all I know what I am. If I know, then I can properly love myself. If I do not know what I am if I think that "I am this body," oh, this conception the dog has also. He's also thinking, "I am this body." To keep this body in fitness, to eat nicely, to sleep nicely, this consciousness is there in cats and dogs. So therefore, as spirit soul, as human being, first of all you know that "Whether I am this body or something else?"
Father Tanner: But you know what you are and what you become. I hate what I am. I want to become something different.
Prabhupāda: No, that is your freedom. You can do.
Father Tanner: Now, this is the same as a material man saying "I want to become spiritual or God conscious or what have you." But, you know, because I want to become this, it doesn't mean that I am this. Because I want to become God's servant, it doesn't mean that I am God's servant.
Prabhupāda: No, you don't, you do not want, you want or not want, that is not the question. First of all you must know what is your real identity. You do not want and do want, that independence you have got always. That is a different thing. But first of all you must know what is your identity. Your identity is... That I have already explained. The... You are part and parcel of God. So far we understand, our philosophy is... From the Bhagavad-gītā. Mamaivāṁśaḥ. The whole thing is one unity, unit, and everything is part and parcel of God, His energy. So we, the marginal energy, living entities, we are also part and parcel of God. As part and parcel of God, what is my duty? Just like this finger. There is itching. Immediately it comes, serves. (end)
Śyāmasundara: We talked with Professor Zeiner (Zayner?), and he may come. He's trying... He's going to see...
Prabhupāda: That is only interpretation. Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa is speaking to Arjuna. He is plainly speaking that "I am speaking to you this Bhagavad-gītā because You are My devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam (BG 4.3). So first condition to understand Bhagavad-gītā is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the only talk is about devotion. There is no other talk. There are other talks, but they are subordinate. They are not principal talks. The principal talk is to understand Kṛṣṇa through bhakti-yoga. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). You understand Sanskrit? You...?
David Lawrence: Yes, yes, I'm there.
Prabhupāda: So if He says, "One can understand Me only through bhakti,"... He has spoken about jñāna, karma, yoga, everything, but if anyone wants to know Kṛṣṇa, then He says, it is His direct order, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Tattvataḥ, "In truth, what I am, if anyone wants to know, that can be known through bhakti-yoga. No other method."
Yogeśvara: He says when Moses saw the burning bush and he asked the fire, "Who are you?" The fire said, "I am what I am." "Who I am?" that's a question that you are going to have to answer by your own meditations.
Prabhupāda: But what is his meditation? What he has learned?
Yogeśvara: The thing to realize, which he has realized a little bit, is peace. And when you join up, you get a letter back, and at the bottom of the letter it says "With our best wishes for your peace and happiness."
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. Everyone wants that. But what is the process?
Yogeśvara: ...by praying, courage, by faith. A serious movement, a serious order would never guarantee instantaneous illumination.
Prabhupāda: No, that also we say. But we must have the program. Just like he say that "Who am I?" So at least one must know who he is. If this vague reply is "I am what I am..." If I ask you, "you come," so "Who are you, sir?" then if he says, "I am what I am," is that the proper answer? (laughter) This is nonsense answer. If I ask you, "Who are you?" If he says, "I am what I am," is that the proper answer?
Prabhupāda: So anyone who is accepting this body as the self, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cows and kharaḥ means asses. So this civilization based on the bodily necessities of life is animal civilization. Because we are not this body, we are spirit soul, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul is within the body and it is transmigrating from one type of body to another. Even in this life. Just like I was in the baby's body, I was in a child's body, I was in a boy's body. Those bodies are gone. But I remember that I was in such and such bodies. But I am now in a different body. Therefore, although my bodies have changed so many times, I am cognizant, I know that I had such and such body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. To transmigrate from one body to another. This is the authoritative statement of Bhagavad-gītā. There are so many serious students of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, his photographs were always with the Bhagavad-gītā, standing. But he was not a leader of understanding what is soul. He was simply concerned with the body. This nationalism is concerning this body. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, ijya, ijya means worshipable. On account of this bodily concept of life they have taken that this earth or the place where the body is born, that has become worshipable. That is nationalism. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. And from my body there is relationship with my wife, with my children, therefore they are my own men. There are hundreds and thousands of women, but one woman who has got bodily connection, she's my wife. I have to do so many things for her. Similarly children, the bodily connection. The whole material civilization, nationalism, socialism, this ism, that ism, everything based on this bodily concept of life. But one who is in bodily concept of life, he is no better than cows and asses. So in the human form of life, because of the developed consciousness, there is inquiry, what I am. What I am. Am I this body or I'm something else other than this body? This is natural inquiry, and the Vedānta-sūtra begins from this inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the animal concept of life the inquiry is where is my food, where is my shelter, where is my sex, where is my defense. These inquiries. But when one comes to the human form of body, the inquiry should be, at least, that what I am. If I study myself, I think, if I take this finger, am I this finger? The answer will be no. It is my finger. So my eyes, my head, everything "mine." Then where is "I"? Unless this inquiry comes into the living form of life, human form of life, he's not a human being. He's animal because animals never inquire. He's satisfied. A dog is satisfied. He knows that "I am this body." According to the dog's body, he barks. That's all. No more inquiry. Therefore actual human form of life, actual business of human form of life, begins from this inquiry. Brahma-jijñāsā. So this brahma-jijñāsā is being explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is Brahman? That is, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: Brahma-jijñāsā means this human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth, brahma-jijñāsā. This is human life. Unless one is jijñāsu, just like Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he inquired... His first inquiry was, "What I am?" His first inquiry was. Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya? He said, "grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni." He was a brāhmaṇa. So brāhmaṇas are addressed as "paṇḍitjī." He was paṇḍita. He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Parsee, Urdu. But he admitted his fault, that "Everyone calls me as paṇḍitjī, but I am such a paṇḍita that I do not know what I am. This is my 'paṇḍitjī.' Therefore I have come to inquire from You what I am." That is brahma-jijñāsā. Nobody knows in this material world what he is. Everyone is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am woman," "I am man." This is their... is their... They do not know. Brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gītā the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijñāsā. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life.
Śrutakīrti:
- śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ
- kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca
- jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ
- brahma-karma svabhāva-jam
- (BG 18.42)
"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."
Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is happy. Still, those who are following Vedic principles, they are happy than others. These Arya-samajis, they say, the Vedic culture, but they are not happy as the strictly followers of Vedic culture.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is a lot of politics in it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is happy. Still, those who are following Vedic principles, they are happy than others. These Arya-samajis, they say, the Vedic culture, but they are not happy as the strictly followers of Vedic culture.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is a lot of politics in it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. As soon as you go against the standard rules and regulations, there must be some motive. That is politics. That is politics. All politicians, they are with motive. They are not for... Now, all these big, big political parties, they are fighting with one another. They are simply trying to keep their post and they are fighting for that. So where is the time for them to think of the general people, how they will be happy? There is no time. It is the Kṛṣṇa conscious people who are actually thinking of others. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Kṛpāmbudhir yas tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava qualification is he is unhappy by seeing others... (break) Let us enlighten them. Otherwise what is the use of working in this old age? (Aside:) Come on. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Because without God consciousness, without understanding "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship," everyone shall remain unhappy. There cannot be happiness. Without knowledge of God, nobody can be happy. Superficially they may try, so-called humanitarianism, this ism, that ism. Now, say for these Communists country, they have struggled for the last sixty years. They started from 1917. How many years?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: I think... When I was in college I studied chemistry, and I think many of the scientists that I also met, they felt very alienated from their asso..., from their relationship with nature or with God because of their empirical approach to everything, of setting themselves apart from everything. Therefore they felt detached from the complete whole, almost as if an island floating away somewhere with no relationship.
Prabhupāda: They... You became detached from all material activities? No?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Well, just the observer.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is the scientist's point of view. He's just observing, observing, observing, and therefore he feels almost left out of it. So they want to participate. They're very attracted to the...
Prabhupāda: But he's observing himself or not? Or he's simply observing outside himself?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā says that he is observing his body, his field of activities.
Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā... I am asking...
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He's observing outside of himself.
Prabhupāda: Then why does he not observe himself, that "What I am?" "Am I this body? Or what I am? Why I am full of anxieties?"
Paramahaṁsa: What does it mean when they say that failure is the pillar of success?
Prabhupāda: Yes. For whom? Who is actually searching after success? Not for the fool. Anyone who is trying for attaining success, for him, failure is also success because he's making progress. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). God says, "Many ways." That's all right. But why does He says that "If you want to know Me perfectly, and without any doubt, then this is the process, bhakti"? Other processes are there but by those processes you cannot understand. Just like practically, call anyone, so-called yogis, so-called jñānīs, they'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa. So all other paths that are recommended, by those paths you cannot understand God perfectly and without any doubt. Therefore God says clearly, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ: (BG 18.55) "Actually, what I am, that can be understood by bhakti-yoga." Other systems, you'll... I explained that last night. That is partial understanding. That is not full understanding.
Haṁsadūta: I was hearing some statement about, from mediumship, of people who had died and they are living on a subtle platform, and they don't actually know that they have died. They are so absorbed that they mentally...
Prabhupāda: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanātana Gosvāmī placed before... "What I am?" Ke āmi. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (CC Madhya 19.151). Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."
Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? It is quite clear for our rational mind, I can understand there is a dead body, and there must be something in him, enough to make it alive. Now, the conclusion, I say there are two things, that my question was how he becomes aware in himself as an experience, not as conclusion, because I realize that on the inner way it becomes important more and more to feel deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper realities. That's why in my little work I make a distinction between the body you have and the body you are. The English language says, talks about "somebody" and "something." "Somebody" means a person. So the body you are. It's the whole of the gestures wherein you express and you present and you miss or you realize your real self. So the body you are. Usually if you go to a doctor he sees only the body you have. He tackles it like a machine. If somebody with shoulders like this, he says, "Well, you must make exercises." If somebody comes to me with shoulders like this, I say, "The body you are, you have no confidence in life. So get an attitude of confidence." So he gets to know the body he is, not only the body he has, which doesn't at all touch at your wisdom.
Prabhupāda: No, as I say, the active principle, I am also the active principle. As I say, the dead body and the living body, difference is, when the active principle is not there, it is dead body. Similarly, I am also the active principle. So 'ham, so 'ham: "I am the same active principle." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman. I am not this material body." That is self-realization. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: (BG 18.54) "When one is self-realized, then he is jolly." Prasannātmā. He is never morose. He is jolly. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He has no lamentation, no hankering." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "He is equal to everyone, man, animal and everything." And mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām: (BG 18.54) "Then devotional life begins." So without self-realization, there is no question of devotional life. Or those who are engaged in devotional service, they are all... Just like these boys, my students, they are trained up how to be always in devotional service. So one who is engaged in devotional service, he is supposed to be already self-realized. Because he has understood "what I am," yes. And then he sticks to devotional service. Otherwise, he cannot. If one thinks, "I am this body," then he cannot be engaged in devotional service, or he cannot stick. He knows that "I am part and parcel of God. So my duty is to serve God." This is self-realization. And then he engages himself in devotional service.
Prabhupāda: We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole world, not that for our individual person. Vaiṣṇava, whatever he does, he does for the whole world, not for his person. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī, they do for their own person. Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, for their personal benefit. That is also materialism. Vaiṣṇavism, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore, honored all over the three worlds, their activities and their person. Tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. Therefore, they should be taken shelter of. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura confirmed, ei chaya gosāñi yāra, tāra mui dāsa, "One who has taken shelter of the six Gosvāmīs, I am his servant, nobody's servant."
- ei chaya gosāñi yāra, tāra mui dāsa,
- tāṅ' sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grāsa
"I want to only eat the dust of the (indistinct)."
- tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta-sane vāsa
- janame janame haya, ei abhilāṣa
Everything is there; simply we have to learn how to utilize it. Our Acyutānanda Swami has written that introduction, he's realizing (indistinct). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness means the life of realization, self-realization, what I am. As Sanātana Gosvāmī presented himself (indistinct), "What I am?" (break)
But if you remain diseased, then just like I have got this disease, no appetite. First-class things are being made—nothing is giving me any taste. Disease is there. Therefore, if you want to taste what is God, then you first of all try to cure your disease. Our disease, material disease is the lusty desire. Lusty desire is so strong that you will find it is existing amongst the so-called religionists performing religious rituals. But the same disease is there, that "If I execute the rituals, then I shall be promoted to the heavenly kingdom (indistinct)." Similarly, the so-called monist philosophers, meditation, this, that, the disease is there: "I shall become God." Similarly, the yogis, they can perform so many gymnastics, but the disease is there. The disease is cured when he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta' (CC Madhya 19.149).
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest: May I ask a question, please? Master, perhaps... It seems to me we have sort of misunderstood. These people is trying to inquire whether or not a sort of a mantram I would say invented here in the western hemisphere or a so-called master is or is not good for realization of the self. But I am thinking more in terms of the question, it is perhaps more suitable to make the question a question, not affirmation. "Who am I?" perhaps, is the best of the mantrams instead of affirming, "I am," because we cannot realize who I am.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you are basing your knowledge, "Perhaps." Therefore you are imperfect. "Perhaps." That means you are imperfect. Your statement will not be accepted. Because you are imperfect, you say, "Perhaps, maybe." So this is not knowledge. This is not knowledge. This is ignorance. As soon as you say, "Perhaps, maybe," that means you do not know what is, the actual thing is. Knowledge must be perfect. There is no question of "Perhaps, it may be." No, that is not knowledge. That is speculation. That is speculation. That is not knowledge. Because you are sitting, "Perhaps," therefore your knowledge cannot be accepted.
Guest: No, no, I'm just asking the question whether or not the right question could be: "Who am I?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice. Therefore I say when you say, "I am," and when I say, "I am," I must understand who I am, you must understand who you are. That I am saying, that simply saying "I am," is not the final. Is not the final. Everyone is "I am," but he must know what I am, what that "I am." That is knowledge. If you blindly say, "I am," and you do not know what you are, then what is the use of using "I am"? Therefore I ask, "What you are?"
Prabhupāda: So you have no other question? Finished?
Reporter: Yeah, I've run out of questions.
Prabhupāda: All questions are answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, and you will get all answer, all problems solved. Unfortunately, the so-called politicians and scholars, they misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā and ruin their career and misguide others. That is going on. All rascals are doing that. "This word means this," as if Kṛṣṇa left this word to be explained by a rascal. This is going on. He does not think of his position, that at any moment he will be kicked out of this platform of so-called leadership, so-called educated teacher, and he is commenting on the words of Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. He does not understand his position, that "What I am?"
Paṣcadraviḍa: So the devotee went on, "To want to become one with the Lord, that is material desire." So the Māyāvādī, he answered, he said, "No, to want to remain separate from the Lord and enjoy rasa, or exchange, with Him, that is also material desire. Because you want to stay two, God and you, so you can be separate just so you can enjoy an exchange. That is also a desire."
Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛñṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20), "which is sanātana, is eternal." Here the rasas, on account of being material, they are flickering. But there, real rasa is permanent. Here the loving affairs between two parties finish as soon as the bodies finish. But there, there is no question of finishing. Increasing. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam, increasing. Harer nāma... (Break)...in reality, "what I am," that can be understood through devotional service, not by karma, jṣāna, yoga. But... Give this example, I mean to say, authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa, that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).
Prabhupāda: Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ (CC Antya 20.12). This treatment is in the beginning just cleansing the mirror of the heart. That is the treatment. Just like a mirror, when it is overcast with dust, it requires cleansing. So the mental mirror is covered with material dust. So it has to be cleansed. That is the treatment. And when it is cleansed, you can see your real face in the mirror. Similarly, as soon as our heart disease, contaminated by the modes of material nature, is cleansed, you can understand what is your real position. That is the success of psychiatric treatment. One comes to know, "What I am." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul; I am not this body." That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). He becomes immediately happy. And happiness means na śocati na kāṅkṣati: "He does not lament, neither he desires." Our present disease is we hanker after things which we do not possess, and when that thing is lost, we lament. So hankering and lamenting. So when one is cleansed in the heart, he has no more hankering or desire. This is the symptom. And samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: "Then he becomes equal to everyone." Everyone means every living being, man and animal, trees, plants, lower or higher. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Then he enters into the sphere of devotional service. This is the symptom. Then he is perfectly in his original position. Then he is happy. Just like a diseased man. So long the disease is there, he is unhappy. And as soon as the disease is cured, he will be happy. So this material disease, as soon as it is cured, one becomes happy, because he is, by constitution, spiritual being. People have no knowledge even, his..., even about his spiritual identity. Therefore they are unhappy. So if you forget what you have written, then?
Paramahaṁsa: ...kinds of ideas and that we have ideas that can be very useful for them. So actually there is a...
Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is the basic principle of civilization, what we want to fulfill, what is the goal. There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry. So where is that department of knowledge?
Prabhupāda: The bhaktas they have no demand, and therefore they are happy. They have no demand. Although the bhaktas are meant for going back to home, back to Godhead, but they don't care for it. "Whether I shall go back to home, back to Godhead, it doesn't matter. I must serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all." That is bhakta. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) no other desire. They want to see Kṛṣṇa happy. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa is happy, they are happy, bas. They remain in the hell, it doesn't matter. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). Those who are devotees, they are not afraid of going to hell. They are prepared going to hell, "All right, I shall go to hell and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finished. I want to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I can do it anywhere. I can do it in this corner. I can do in this building. I can do it in the airplane. I can do it in the hell. I can do it India. I can do it in Los Angeles, anywhere. It doesn't matter what I am or what is my position. I may simply go on chanting. That's all." This is devotee. Therefore he's happy. So happiness is meant for the devotees, not, neither for the karmīs, for the jñānīs, or the yogis. It is the property of the devotees. Just like these devotees are chanting very happily. They are not expecting anything. They are happy by chanting. That's all. But Kṛṣṇa is unhappy if his devotees are not properly maintained. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. You have got Bhagavad-gītā?
- teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ
- yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham
- (BG 9.22)
Bahulāśva: So the soul is the conscious worker of the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A little mistake will cause disaster. Therefore education means to protect him from committing mistake. This is education. And if you keep him in the darkness, what is the value of education? (aside:) Get that switch on. Education means enlightenment. One should know "What I am? I am this body or something else other than the body?" This is education. That is self-realization. "Oh, I am not this body; I am soul. And I am simply working for the body? What I am doing for me? I say, 'It is my body,' so I am working for my, and what for the 'I?' " Where is that education? If you simply take care of "my" and don't take care of "I," is that education? That taking care of "my" is done by the dog, and taking care of "I" is done by the human being. That is the difference. The dog, as soon as he sees another foreign dog in that neighborhood, he begins barking, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" So we are doing the same business in the immigration department: "Why you have come? Have you got visa?" This is civilization, but the dog's business. "Gow! Gow!" In Paris I went without visa, and they detained me for four hours. Well, a human being has come here. Why the immigration law so strict? But that is advancement of civilization.
Bhaktadāsa: One question is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, "How do you view the spiritual change which is coming in America?"
Prabhupāda: America, or any other part of the world, we are all spiritual being. We cannot be satisfied only with the bodily necessities of life. Naturally there is question, "What I am? I am simply this body or something else?" That question naturally comes in human mind. That is very good. A dog cannot think like that. Therefore in the human life it is necessary to question: "What I am? Why I am put into miserable conditions of life? I do not want it, but it is forced upon me. If there is any remedy, what is that remedy?" These questions are very big questions. So unless you, a human being, is awakened to these questions, he is no better than animal.
Prabhupāda: I do not say which religion accepts and which religion does not, but unless one understands that he is not this body—he is different from this body—his education is imperfect.
Indian man (2): But do I mean that up till now your excellency were giving the question of transmigration, field of science, and now you are also taking that subject of God in this sphere of science?
Prabhupāda: It is not God. God is far away. First of all I must know what I am. God is long, long distant.
Faill: The body is just a vehicle.
Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many. So there are nine lakhs' forms of body within the water. Then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then 1,100,000 species of life like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then you come to the birds' life, three million different forms of. Then we come to beast life. That is also... Birds, I am sorry. Birds' life, one million, and then the beast life, three millions... Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually, we become civilized. So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand "what is God, what I am, what is our relationship." So if we don't take advantage of this civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs, jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage on this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.
Reporter: But what message would you give to people in terms of helping people, perhaps, to live better lives?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But if the basic principle is wrong, then all their plans for becoming happy is also wrong. So he does not know what is the important factor. So when he comes to know that he is not this body, he is spirit soul—he studies what is the nature of the spirit soul, what is the necessity of the spirit soul—then he becomes happy. If he is under misconception... Suppose if I take you, Mr. Singer, as the coat, and I take care of the coat and not of you, person, then is that very good proposal? So that is going on. They are taking care of the shirt and coat, not the person who is putting on the shirt and coat. This is the mistake of the modern civilization. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an attempt to correct it, not theoretically, but by scientifically, by philosophically, economically, religiously, everything. Therefore we have got so many books. We are trying to distribute, enlighten people. This is our business. Then people will be happy. Unless one who knows "what I am, and what is my business, what is my aim of life," then how he can be happy? Just like a dog is jumping here and there, here and there, but he does not know what is the aim of life, so if we do not come to the spiritual platform, that we remain animal like cats and dogs, then what is the civilization of cats and dogs? If you keep the dogs as dog and if you ask some of them to come together and make a peace formula, is it possible the dogs will be able to make any peace formula? Because they are dogs, they will go on barking. That's all. So we are attempting so many peace formula, but we are keeping the consciousness on the body, exactly like the dog. And therefore there is no peace. There cannot be any peace. First of all you must come to the real platform, the living force, what is that spirit soul, what is the necessity, what is the aim. That you do not know.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The living entity is victimized, and in this life you can adventure to conquer over it. This is human life. The cats and dogs, they cannot fight with māyā, but a human being, he can fight. So if we don't fight, we don't take that adventure, then we remain cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they fight amongst themselves but not with the māyā. So aborigines, although they have got features of human being, they are no more than the cats and dogs. So they also fight amongst themselves. They do not know that the fighting spirit should be utilized to declare war against māyā. That is possible in human life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This fighting is philosophy. "What is the ultimate cause? What is Brahman? What I am?" Fighting against darkness, sleeping. Kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. Everyone is sleeping on the lap of māyā. Now, this human form of life is not for sleeping but for awakening and fight with māyā. That is human life. (break) You were reading the other day why the sun changes color after rising?
Prabhupāda: When you are unconscious, if your head is cut off, you do not understand. That is practical if by medicinal process you are made into unconsciousness, chloroform anesthetic, so that you don't feel. This is practical. So unless the consciousness is developed, one's soul's full-fledged function does not develop. So this is a chance in the human form of body that the consciousness should be developed. Therefore we are presenting these books. They can understand. We are not presenting the books to the cats and dogs. They cannot understand. Those who are developed conscious, they can understand, and they can understand the value of life, what is the objective of life. Then he acts accordingly, and his life becomes successful. Otherwise, if we do not develop consciousness, simply eat like animal, sleep like animal, enjoy sex life like animal, and try to defend ourself like animal, then where is the difference between man and the animal? At the present moment they are busy with these four things: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have best process of sex life, and how to defend by atomic bomb. This is their advancement of civilization. And this is dog's civilization. A dog is also trying for the same purpose, how to eat, how sleep, how to have sex, and how to defend. That's all. Any animal is trying. Any small insect, it is trying for the same thing. So human life should be utilized only for these four things? No. To understand himself, "What I am? Why I do not like death?" Just like we make some arrangement, struggle for existence for becoming happy, stopping the impediments. So this question should be there in the human form of life, that "I don't want to die. Why death comes upon me? What is the superior power that is enforcing death upon me? I am young man. I don't want to become an old man. Why? Why I am forced to become an old man?" These are the questions of human life. A dog cannot think. A dog cannot think that "Why I have become dog? Why I am barking, and why I am chained?" He doesn't think. And if we remain unconscious like the dog, then where is the advancement of civilization? Dog civilization is not human civilization. Human civilization should be different from the doggish life.
Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done. That means yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. He has no doubt. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahājano yena gataḥ, all the mahājanas.
- svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
- kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
- prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
- balir vaiyāsakir vayam
- (SB 6.3.20)
They are mahājanas. "Prahlāda has taken, Bhīṣmadeva has taken, Janaka Mahārāja has taken, Lord Brahmā has taken, Lord Śiva has taken, Nārada has taken, Kapila has taken.... What I am?" (laughs) That is intelligence. "Why I am waiting on my intelligence?" That is real. But this rascal is thinking more than Brahmā, Nārada, Kapila, Prahlāda. He is thinking he is more than them. That means rascal, overintelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Intelligence means you must have reason. And if he is going beyond reason, only depending on himself, then he is overintelligent rascal. You understand overintelligent rascal? Don't be overintelligent. That is very risky. Be intelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Spoiling. Just like milk. You are heating, and if you give overheat, spoil so many. That kind of heating is not required. You just push on heat as much required. Otherwise you'll spoil by your intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), oh, that is final. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent—"The śāstra says, 'Vāsudeva is everything,' so why not take Vāsudeva everything?"—then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That business is finished." Sa mahātmā. Therefore it is said, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That is not very easily done. That means yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām (BG 7.28). He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Puṇya-karmaṇām—he is only engaged in pious activities. Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktāḥ. He has no doubt. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahājano yena gataḥ, all the mahājanas.
- svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
- kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
- prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
- balir vaiyāsakir vayam
- (SB 6.3.20)
They are mahājanas. "Prahlāda has taken, Bhīṣmadeva has taken, Janaka Mahārāja has taken, Lord Brahmā has taken, Lord Śiva has taken, Nārada has taken, Kapila has taken.... What I am?" (laughs) That is intelligence. "Why I am waiting on my intelligence?" That is real. But this rascal is thinking more than Brahmā, Nārada, Kapila, Prahlāda. He is thinking he is more than them. That means rascal, overintelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Intelligence means you must have reason. And if he is going beyond reason, only depending on himself, then he is overintelligent rascal. You understand overintelligent rascal? Don't be overintelligent. That is very risky. Be intelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Spoiling. Just like milk. You are heating, and if you give overheat, spoil so many. That kind of heating is not required. You just push on heat as much required. Otherwise you'll spoil by your intelligence.
Devotee (2): They say that one should try to.... In order to approach the spiritual master one must...
Prabhupāda: Purchase?
Devotee (2): Approach. Approach. One must become perfect to start with. One must approach a perfect spiritual master and he must become perfect disciple. Could you explain that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He should follow spiritual master. Then he is perfect disciple. Bring water with ice.
Prabhupāda: "Everyone says that I am very learned man, but I am so learned that I do not even know what I am. I'm so learned." (Bengali) This is admission of foolishness.
Prabhupāda: For at the present moment, the human society is child playing on the lap of mother, that's all. In big, big motorcars, that's all. Without any knowledge of father. But will the human being remain simply satisfied with toys on the lap of mother, or you'll try to understand who is father? So we are satisfied with the toys, and playing on the lap of the mother. The motorcar is running very swiftly, head-break or neck-break speed, and they are thinking they are civilized, advanced. What is.... "Who is your father?" "Don't know."
Rāmeśvara: Then, where do you live?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: Where do you.... Where do...?
Prabhupāda: But, he lives on the lap of mother, that's all.
That is child. Child is satisfied on the lap of the mother, that's what I am saying. He doesn't.... The child doesn't care, "I have to know the father." But there is father, that's a fact. That means the present civilization is childish civilization. Does not care to know the father. So, whether the human civilization will remain child, children. They fight amongst themselves. Children, however you can.... "My dear children, live peacefully." So for the time being they may be. Again they will fight, they will cry. That is going on. What the United Nations has done? For the last forty years, they're fighting like children or animals. So you keep..., if you keep them as child or animals, do you think there will be peace? That is not possible. It is to the talking of big, big words for peace. That is not possible. It is futile attempt. They're talking of big, big wars (indistinct), that is not possible. I think in Melbourne I, in my press interview, I said if the United Nations is working.
Prabhupāda: Uttamam. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You can directly understand whether you are going forward. These boys, they are educated, they are coming from rich family—at least, in rich nation. They are not fools and rascals. Unless they feel pratyakṣa avagamam, how they can stick? Just like you are hungry, you are eating. Unless you feel that you are eating, "Yes, I am getting strength, satisfying my appetite," then you can go on eating. It is like that. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. You don't require to get certificate from others, that "I am eating. Whether I am satisfied?" You will feel. You don't require to take certificate from others. If you are actually eating, the result you will feel. That is pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. Other process, you do not know whether you are actually making progress or not. You are simply going to the ritualistic ceremonies, but whether you are actually going forward, that you cannot understand. But you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will understand directly, "Yes, I'm making progress. What I was and what I am now?" Everyone will tell their life history. Pratyakṣam means directly. Pratyakṣa avagamaṁ dharmyam. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). These things are there. Asaṁśayam. There will be no doubt. Other process, you have doubt. This man says that he's God: Whether he's God? But when real God says, then there will be no doubt. Asaṁśayam. So, give them prasāda. Take little prasādam. Thank you very much. So we are trying our best. So if you kindly cooperate with us, we'll get more encouragement. People will be more benefited.
Prabhupāda: So long one will remain a karmī, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.
Jayatīrtha: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance."
Prabhupāda: Everything, whatever he's doing—the so-called nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat, simply defeat. What is your advancement? You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. What is your progress? So yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Only this hodgepodge. They are wasting so much time going to the Mars, spending so much money. But there is no inquiry, ātma-tattvam: "What I am? What is my goal of life?"
Jayatīrtha: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance."
Prabhupāda: Everything, whatever he's doing—the so-called nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat, simply defeat. What is your advancement? You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. What is your progress? So yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Only this hodgepodge. They are wasting so much time going to the Mars, spending so much money. But there is no inquiry, ātma-tattvam: "What I am? What is my goal of life?"
Translator: She's asking that since in these Western countries the families are so broken up and the women sometimes cannot find a qualified husband, what should she do?
Prabhupāda: That, here is the society. You train them. You have got all children. You train them in that way, so that... Whatever is done is done. Now you can make very good society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Not that one mistake has been done, you should continue. Rectify it. The difficulty is the modern society, the leaders, they do not know the aim of life. They are blindly doing everything like animals. Their philosophy is like the animals. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that's all. This is the philosophy of the animals. And human philosophy is to understand first of all what I am. I am this body or something else? That is human life. But nobody questions this, there is no institution to teach this science, therefore the whole human society is misguided. Just like if I want to train my boy to become a medical man, then I teach him biology, botany, similar... So if... Because I know I shall make my boy a medical man. Similarly, we should know what is the aim of human life. Then we have to construct the social political, everything, favorable to that end. But they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the whole mistake. I think that in Bible there is a story, prodigal son? So we are prodigal son. We are all sons of God, now we have become prodigal sons. What is the meaning of prodigal? "Without any responsibility," is it not? Do whatever you like.
Prabhupāda: Apart from form, we are, when we talk of God, at least we assume that He has form. They are offering prayers. Whom they are offering prayer?
Nandarāṇī: Allah.
Prabhupāda: Allah. So if Allah cannot hear, then what is the use of offering prayers? If we are offering prayer, so Allah must hear it. Then He will be pleased upon you. So if He has no capacity to hear, then what is the use of your prayer? This is the logic. He must have capacity to hear what I am offering, prayers, "My Lord, Your Lordship is so great You have created this universe," or "You are maintaining so many...," these things are there. So what is the purpose? That appreciating the uncommon activities of the Lord. This is prayer. What else? What do they mean by prayer? What is the meaning of that prayer?
Prabhupāda: Anything. It must be sanctioned by the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then it will be successful.
Commissioner: For success the people, the local language, so that they may...
Prabhupāda: Language difficulty is there. That we have to solve.
Commissioner: Therefore training has to be done here and in other places, and a center has to be there. You could plan one of those with...
Prabhupāda: Yes, plan is there. Just like we are doing. And we can give you in detail. Provided you accept this principle that we shall abide by the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.
Commissioner: Who questions the Gītā and the Upaniṣads?
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gītā. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. They'll never talk of Kṛṣṇa any time. Banish Kṛṣṇa. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gītā-Press edition.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ, and he says it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person. Just see how misleading it is. And if a person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi, misleads, then who will hear me? What I am? There is one big person in Bombay, he said that he has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for Gītā-pracāra. But when I proposed Gītā-pracāra means Kṛṣṇa pracāra, so he said, "No, I want Gītā without Kṛṣṇa." Everyone...
Indian man: ...self-realization. Various methods, as many people are there, so many techniques are there. Each individual has to find out his own way.
Prabhupāda: Do you think that is scientific proposal?
Indian man: They say.
Prabhupāda: I say they are (indistinct). Just like you go to educational institution, is there any knowledge that is to be realized according to the whims of the students?
Indian man: Not the knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this? Self-realization, what it is?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is knowledge, that is knowledge. Self-realization.
Indian man: This is, one part is true knowledge.
Prabhupāda: No, not, suppose self-realization, what I am, is it not?
Indian man: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what I am, then you have to study in this way, whether you are this body or you are something else. Is it not? So that is in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā explained, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Find out this verse. This is self-realization. Bhagavad-gītā begins with self-realization, what I am. Am I this body or I am something other than this body? That is self-realization. So that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man: Yes, he has spoken on Bhagavad-gītā also.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, this self-realization, as you said, that "There are as many ways as there are students," that is not scientific.
Indian man: That what he says.
Prabhupāda: That is wrong. Not maybe. Then let us try to understand. It is not the question of maybe. Self-realization must be. That is self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ (SB 2.1.2). (aside:) You come to this side, that's all right. Those who are not self-realized, they have got many questions and many answers. And those who are, one who is self-realized, he has only one question and one answer. One question, that what I am. There is no self-realization, one question, what I am. And now what I am, do you think there is, a student, he is inquiring, what I am, and whatever he thinks, that is his answer? If the student is ignorant... Therefore there are many students and many questions about self-realization. Do you think that there are many answers?
Indian man: Answer will be one.
Prabhupāda: This is self-realization. The answer is one, that "I am not this body." This is self-realization. You cannot say that because there are many students, so there are many answers.
Indian man: But who am I? Every individual starts quest, asking himself, "Who am I?" And everybody is thinking in his own terms that "I am something, I am somebody." Somebody is attached to the upper garments.
Prabhupāda: So long he is student, student means he does not know.
Indian man: Yes, he is ignorant.
Prabhupāda: He is ignorant. So his question is what I am, but he is ignorant. He cannot give the answer. The master. The master will give one answer.
Indian man: Answer is one. Ways, as you have mentioned just now. Different ways.
Prabhupāda: Not different ways. Different explanation. (break) So any question, any problem, it is solved not by the whims of the student, but it is solved by the expert master by explaining it very elaborately.
Indian man: So the little knowledge I possess. In a classroom there are different types of students. One are sharp, certain are dull. Certain are absolutely dull. The degrees of understanding are different from student to student.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's alright. That is explanation. That is not different way.
Indian man: A particular student, master has to teach him in that way.
Prabhupāda: The answer is one.
Indian man: Yes, that is true.
Prabhupāda: That the any person, any living entity, he is not this body. That is the answer. So then two things. Suppose you are, I am, that I am thinking of this body, and at the same time I am thinking that this finger, I say, "My finger." Nobody says, "I finger." "My finger." Even a child he will say. So "My finger, my head, my legs." So what is that "my"? That is the question. The answer is negatively that that "I" or "my" is not this body. That is different from the body. Now what is the nature of that "I"? That is explained one after another, one after another, one, one. Because he has no idea. Every one of us... I am speaking, you are speaking. Theoretically we take, accept it that I am not this body. But practically I say, "I am this body." That is wrong. That has to be explained. And that is being explained. The question is one and the answer is one. There cannot be many questions or many answers. Answer is one. That answer is, Kṛṣṇa begins, that "As the body is changing, within our experience..." dehino'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Very nice example. We are changing bodies. When you were born, there was no beard. Clean shaved or no hair. So that body has changed. It is not the same body. In which body you came out of the womb of your mother, that was a small body. That was a different body. This example given there. This body is changing during your experience of life. Similarly, after death the body will change, but you will continue. This is self-realization. It is not very difficult. The example is there. It doesn't take much time. The answer is one, and it is realized, say, within some minutes. So Bhagavad-gītā begins from self-realization, that "I am not this body." That is actual position, that if I understand that I am not this body, factually, then what I am, that I am something beyond this body. That is explained in so many different ways. So the center is this, that I am not this body. The answer is one. But I cannot answer, the master will not answer according to the whims of the student. Then he is not master. Because answer is one.
Indian man: Then the question is, this is not the complete answer, that I am not the body. That is not...
Prabhupāda: Hm. Self-realization that, that you are seeking what I am. Am I this body or something else? That is your inquiry. And the answer is that, "No, you are not this body."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am wonderful so long I serve Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise useless. No value. If I can serve Kṛṣṇa, then I am wonderful certainly. We don't want to become cheap wonderful. We want to become really wonderful by serving Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful undoubtedly. Who can become more wonderful than Kṛṣṇa? Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Always remember, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. Don't take Kṛṣṇa very slightly like one of you. That is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful always. He's the most wonderful person, and He can, does... He can do anything wonderful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He can also give wonderful guru.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). It is Kṛṣṇa's wonderful mercy that one can get guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya. Don't forget for a moment, that Kṛṣṇa is insignificant. He's always the most wonderful. He can do anything, whatever He likes. They have no such belief. They have no such idea. They are different. "We believe in this." Not believe. This is a fact! You believe or not believe, who cares for you? Fact is fact. So arrange. We shall go. (break) "...Kṛṣṇa is wonderful," that makes one perfect. You know that story? The cobbler and Nārada Muni? Hm? The cobbler believed, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." And Nārada Muni immediately certified, "Yes, your salvation, this life guaranteed." The cobbler has his conviction, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. Kṛṣṇa can draw an elephant through the hole of a needle. Why not? It's possible." That faith made him perfect. If Kṛṣṇa is not wonderful, is it possible for me to do all these things? What I am?
| Page Title: | What I am? (Conversations 1968 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 01 of Jun, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |