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Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving. If I do not belong to this body... I call myself an American or Indian... (coughs) (aside:) Water. Because accidentally this body is born on the land of America, therefore I call myself American, but if I am not this body, then how I am American? This is another misgiving. Yes. Then I am calling you as my son. You are calling him as your son, but what he is? He is a product of your body. So if you are not this body, how he is your son? In this way you go on. As soon as you study nicely that you are not this body, you will find that you belong to none of these. You are free. You see? This is called Brahman realization, spiritual realization, this stage, when you understand that "I am not this body. I do not belong to this country. I do not belong to this family. I do not belong to this society." This is negative. Some philosophers are trying to make these things void. But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment: "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like if you create a doll, clay doll, very nice beautiful girl. But it will... It is imitation. It is shadow of the real beautiful girl. It is created at some time and... So reality is there in the spiritual world. Therefore it is called janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The idea comes from there, but the impersonalists, due to their intelligence being very meager, they think that the Absolute Truth is without any variety, impersonal or void. They think that varieties are only in the material world, but actually, real varieties are there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva mūlam adhah-śākha. Adhah-śākham. Aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam. Aśvattha... This material creation, material manifestation is compared with a banyan tree whose root is upward. And that I have explained several times how the tree can be upwards root. That means it is reflection. Just like you stand on the riverside, the tree will be reflected on the river, on the water, as obverted. That means that is reflection. As soon as we say that this is a tree, the root of which is up, that means it is reflection. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they do not take account of the mathematical calculation, 380 degree. They are taking account of... 360 degree, the whole circle. They are taking account only 180 degree. And other 180 degree they're making void. But actually, the whole point is 360 degree. That is geomatrical calculation. If you simply know 180 degree, then the other 180 degree is unknown to you. So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant, abhijñaḥ. Cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not ordinary thing.

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all. So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The impersonalists, they think that in the material varieties there are so many abominable inebrieties, therefore in the spiritual world all these things should be minus, void. That is their material calculation. They cannot think that in the spiritual world also there is love. Because here, in this world, the so-called love or lust is frustrated and followed by so many calamities that therefore they cannot conceive that in the spiritual world also there is love. Their idea, in one sense, is right, that how these nonsensical things can exist in the spiritual world? Therefore they make it altogether minus. No variety. Impersonal. That is less intelligence. They cannot understand that photograph is the reflection of the actual person. There is everything in detail. A movie. Actually, the same man is laughing, walking, dress, everything, but it is all false. That they cannot understand. Therefore the Vaiṣṇavas say they are less intelligent. The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā. Then mithyā means it is a reflection or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship. Anyone, so-called spiritualist or transcendentalist, if he is claiming that "There is no God," "I am God," "There is voidness," these are all disturbing positions, different symptoms of this disease of māyā. It is disease. How one can think of, that he is God? That means he does not know what is God. If I say here that "I am President Nixon," would you accept it? Would you accept? Any one of you, if I say that "I am President Nixon," will you accept? Why? Why? Why? Why you do not accept me? I say, "I am President Nixon." Why do you not accept? Why?

Woman: I would say you are if you say you are.

Kīrtanānanda: You don't have the characteristics.

Prabhupāda: No. That means you are not rascal. You are sane, that you do not accept me as President... That is one thing. At least you are not insane. So if I say, "God," and you accept, then how much insane you are. Just try to understand. How much insanity is there, one who is claiming that "I am God" and one who is accepting that he is God. This is insanity.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Without father and mother, there cannot be an existence. You cannot deny that. You cannot say, "Oh, I have no father and mother." That is not possible. You may not know who is your father, mother. That is a different thing. But you cannot say, "Oh, I have no father, mother." So this denial, that "I don't believe in God," is a existence like that, one who has forgotten his father and mother. That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence. Māyā has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: To cheat the atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sammohāya sūra-dviṣam (SB 1.3.24). Sūra-dviṣam means atheists. Surat. Sura-dvisam means those who are envious of Lord's devotees. That means atheist. So to bewilder them. What is that bewildering? This atheist class, they became so much absorbed in this animal-killing, they forgot everything about God. So they said, "What is God? We don't mind." So Lord Buddha says, "Yes, there is no God." Lord's philosophy is: "There is no God. Void. There is no God. But what I say, you follow. Yes. That's all right." But he is God. Is it not cheating?

Allen Ginsberg: Yes, except that he claims to be neither God nor not God.

Prabhupāda: Huh? But he never said that "I am God." He said there is no God.

Allen Ginsberg: No. He doesn't say there's no God either. He says...

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's anyway.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: So your father has got personality. And why the ultimate Godhead is not a person? What is this philosophy? If God is father, He must be person. How you can prove God imperson? Eh?

Haṁsadūta: Ah...

Prabhupāda: He is puzzled.

Devotee (1): I am puzzled.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Just try to understand this philosophy. If when I see practically my father has got head, his father has got head, his father has got head, head, head, head... Go on. And the ultimate father, why he has no head? What this poor person, gentleman, has done that he has no head? (laughter) This is... This nonsense theory is going on, that "God has no head. God has no legs. God has no hand." Imperson means He has no head, no leg, no... That means... And somebody says, "He is dead," and "void."

Revatinandana: They're trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. They're trying to kill Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say, "O my Lord, You have no leg, You have no hand, You have no eyes," that means, "You are blind, You are lame, You are headless," (laughter) "You have no sense"—"You are nonsense." So this is prayer. This is their prayer. So we have to fight vigorously with these rascal impersonalists and voidists. When I was talking, somebody left the meeting in the morning. Yes. That means he could not tolerate (laughs) all these designations-rascal, miscreants, lowest of the mankind. Yes.

Devotee (2): In this mantra of Śrī Upaniṣad, Mantra Twelve,

andhaṁ tamaḥ praviśanti
ye 'sambhūtim upāsate
tato bhūya iva te tamo
ya u sambhūtyāṁ ratāḥ

It says, "Those engaged in worship of the demigods enter the darkest region of ignorance, and still more do the worshipers of the Absolute." But this means that the impersonalists, "those who are worshiping Absolute"?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Then why is it seen that they are making spiritual advancement?

Prabhupāda: No, they don't make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don't you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa; he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say, "Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men." That's it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Guest (3): What is the trance that... The meditation, trance enters. It is called...

Prabhupāda: Trance is... The actual meditation means concentrate one's mind on Viṣṇu form. That is real meditation. But now they have, the impersonalists and voidists, they have manufactured so many things, but actual meditation means...

Guest (3): Transcendental meditation. Trans...?

Prabhupāda: Transcendental meditation. The transcendental meditation means to think of Lord Viṣṇu.

Guest (3): These books will be available where?

Prabhupāda: These books are... Now we have some custom difficulty. Books are lying in the port, but we have some custom clearance permission difficulty. Just this morning we have received news from Delhi. Now everything is complete. So now we shall get the books, say, within a fortnight.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: It's the great called Agapes(?) as opposed to the old other problem Eros.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. Lust and..., Eros, lust. Agape(?) is pure love, transcendental love.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: The trouble is, aren't you going to lead yourself into this difficulty: if you are spiritually satisfied you would sit down and do nothing and if everybody were doing that we should be rather back to where we started rather than have enough food or music or transport.

Prabhupāda: That is for the voidist, not for the spiritualist. The spiritual life there is enough activity for even scientists. That they do not know. They mean spiritual life is void. That is negation of the present activities only, negative idea. But actually when you stop material activities your real activity begins. That is spiritual life. The spirit, spirit soul is active. You cannot stop it. You cannot stop it. Now it is acting through the coverings of material, matter, therefore it is imperfect activities. But if the activity is uncovered by material things that is real activity.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Devotee (3): See the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the līlā is death mostly. But it isn't death, the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says, "I want to go to Jesus, but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do?" And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested, therefore people are leaving religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Maharishi Impersonalists -- April 7, 1972, Melbourne:

Impersonalist: Meditation and action.

Upendra: Meditation and action.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever you do, you do all together. That is merging. But you are all individual. Your personality is different from his. His personality different from him. He is from you. But because you have got one interest, therefore you one. Just like we. We are so many individuals. But our interest is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are one. Try to understand what is merging into one. You are all individual. Nobody can be... It is not something material. We are all spirit soul, so we are all individual. But if our interest becomes one, then we merge into one. This is oneness. Try to understand this oneness. Oneness does not mean void, no. Oneness means when our interest becomes one; that is oneness. Real oneness means to be interested in Kṛṣṇa. That is oneness. Other oneness will not stand. Just like you are now in one. As soon as your interest little becomes different, you become separated. So that is... There is quite possibility. Because you are all individual, there is quite possibility of disagreeing with another individual person. There is quite possibility. So oneness does not mean that you lose your individuality. Oneness means you keep your individuality, but you take the same interest. Then it is oneness. It is not possible that you lose your individuality. That is not possible. You are individual eternally. Do you understand this?

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just like here in this material world the Brahmā's planet is the ultimate. That is also like mat..., lotus flower, and in the spiritual world the ultimate planet is Kṛṣṇa-loka.

Yadurāṇī: So you would have palaces and garden scenes and Lord Brahmā perhaps on his throne?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu (Bs. 5.29). There are palaces, trees, everything. They are not voids. The voidist cannot understand what is there.

Devotee (7): And Śrīla Prabhupāda, can we paint more informal portraits...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Strata is being created and vanquished every moment.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the, the background is not solid.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like the one strata is like that. After an hour, it will be different. So what is the use of your studying this strata? Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means always changing. The material world is always changing. Your body. This body will stay, say, for fifty years, hundred years. Then you get another body. That's all. Another body. Jagat means changing. Now this color is there. Say, after one hour it will be white. You see. Then you study this black color. Again you study the white color. Again this black color. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. That is your business. Just like seasonal changes. Now it is cold. Any moment, you'll have to get out (of) these clothes. It is very warm. So these changes are going on. The whole material cosmic manifestation is subjected to different types of changes. Therefore it is called jagat. Jagat means going, changing. Your body's changing. Similarly everything is changing. What is the eternity behind these changes? That is knowledge. That, the eternity, they do not find. Therefore they are disappointed: "It is void, zero. Eternity is zero." That's all. And when they are asked wherefrom the zero, varieties come...? Zero means there is nothing. So how the varieties come? Therefore Vedic conclusion, the varieties, there is, eternity variety. And this is only shadow of that variety. It is not eternal because it is shadow. But the real variety spiritual world, is there.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: śāstra-cakṣuṣā.

Student (1): What about the Bible? That'll tell me something else, altogether.

Revatīnandana: No, it won't. It will tell you almost identical information. If you go in the Bible, it will say, "God is your father." Father means he is sufficient to beget a son. Now, if God is a void, how can a son come out from a void? But if God is a person, then he can have son.

Prabhupāda: We have no such experience.

Revatīnandana: Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the father of every living being." Therefore Bible and Bhagavad-gītā, they are saying the same thing, but not that "God is void or light," not saying that. Somebody else is saying that. Therefore we are very, very skeptical now. He has not got the authority of these scriptures. If he says, "Your father is a void," that is nonsense.

Prabhupāda: And where is our experience—from void a son is born? Where is your experience? Suppose you are a person. You have dropped from the void?

Student (1): I'm not arguing for Divine Light or anything. I'm just trying to...

Revatīnandana: No, just take it philosophically. Can a person come from a void? Void means zero. But a person is not zero. He has so many personal qualities.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhāgavata. Yogis, they try to see also other planets. They're inquisitive. Instead of going directly to the planet of Kṛṣṇa, they want to see intermediate planets, how they are working.

Bhagavān: Instead of an express to Goloka.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. That is natural. Only the strong devotees, they don't like. "No, I don't want to see anything. I want to go immediately to Kṛṣṇa." That is strong devotion. Because they are after, mad after seeing Kṛṣṇa. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. For them, the whole universe is vacant for want of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you love somebody, if he's not seen, you see, in spite of so many cars, you see the whole city of Paris, void, void. You don't give you any pleasure. A strong love for Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam means everything vacant. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant. What is the value of this house or this city? He doesn't take. So higher planetary system means better standard of life. Just like if Indian comes here, materially, they see the higher standard of life in Paris, in London. But because we are interested in Kṛṣṇa, we do not take very much care of this higher standard of life. So higher planetary system means many, many thousand times better standard of life. Many, many thousand times. Just like Brahmaloka, the one day of Brahmā, described, you cannot even calculate mathematically. Just find out: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). This is the topmost planetary system, Brahmaloka, and the duration of life in Brahmaloka is described in the Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Sahasra... S-A-H. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Kīrtanānanda, his argument was, when he was an atheist, he said that actually the void is truth, and all categories or all varieties are illusion. So he said that we may think that actually spiritual variegatedness is transcendental, but that's actually also our illusion. That was his argument.

Prabhupāda: So what did you reply?

Hṛdayānanda: I replied that if categories are illusion, then his talking is also illusion.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: So I wouldn't let him say anything else.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, very good reply. "And you are also illusioned. Whatever nonsense you are talking, that is also illusion. Finish. Void, everything." Then what did he reply?

Hṛdayānanda: He said... I just wouldn't let him say anything. Whenever he tried to talk, I just said, "That's illusion." (break)

Prabhupāda: This reply we give to the Māyāvādīs. So we speak to the Māyāvādī guru, that "Whether you are in māyā? Because everything is māyā, so whether you are also in māyā?" So if he says, "Yes," then how he can become guru?

Karandhara: Professor Bharati said that. And when the students asked him, "Isn't everything in this world illusion?", he said, "Yes, everything is illusion, but I like it very much."

Prabhupāda: He likes it very much.

Karandhara: That's what he said.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, then everyone, if becomes superior, then where is the question of philosophy? If everyone is superior himself, then there is no question of philosophy. Is there any necessity? You are superior, I am superior; then where is the question of discussing philosophy?

Umāpati: That is trying to be God. He's trying... Then we are always God.

Prabhupāda: Then philosophy becomes null and void. As soon as everyone becomes his own authority, then philosophy becomes null and void. There is no necessity of philosophy.

Umāpati: That is the difficulty of our age.

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. Mūḍhāḥ. If you do not accept philosophy, you do not accept authority, that means all rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Satsvarūpa: What about Śaṅkara's cheating?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkara's cheating is also like that, because he was taking, he was accepting from the Buddhists. If he immediately says that "Lord Buddha was, cheated you," they'll not accept. Therefore he made some compromise. The Buddhist theory is "void," and he said, "No form." So it is almost the same. But he said, "There is Brahman." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. That much improvement. The same process. Just like one wants to eat meat. He is given some regulation, "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you do like this: Go to a mosque. On Eid day you can kill one animal." Or "You go to the synagogue under the protection of..." And our Hindu śāstra says, "Go to the Goddess Kālī's temple, and get a goat, black goat." That means under condition. If it is good thing, it would have been sanctioned, "Yes, you can do whatever you like." But it is not good. But if you say, "It is not good," he'll not accept. Therefore under some condition.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we don't experience, we may not know that we are suffering.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right..." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals nine, nine into eighty-one; therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more." They want to become merging into the Supreme. When they are fatigued. After being karmī, then jñānī: "This is not good. What is actually our aim of life, let us search out." But because they make research in their teeny brain, they come to the conclusion, voidism and impersonalism, that "Make it zero, this botheration." That is also imperfect. So when they come to Bhagavān and engage himself in the service, then it is perfect, original.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want things by experimental knowledge, and when they fail it, they say it is nothing.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is voidism. First of all they try to enjoy. When they fail... The jackal in the orchard first of all tried to get the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get, then he said, "Oh it is sour. Don't require..." (laughter) They will say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This is all false. Let us go to Brahman." This is their philosophy. First of all they try as karmī, brmmmmmmm. (Prabhupāda makes loud car sound) (laughter) When all these brm brm brm, life after life, when he finds that there is nothing, "Oh, it is all false. Grapes are sour." Jackal jumping. There is need of God. You can write article.

Prajāpati: Need of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is need, absolute need.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like the government, when there is formation of the city, jail construction is also there. You cannot say that, "Why government is creating, it is unnecessary, it's premature, construction of jail work(?). But the government knows that there are some criminals who has to be put into the jail. Therefore the jail created. So because there are criminals, therefore government creates. Similarly, there are many conditioned souls who, instead of serving Kṛṣṇa, they want to enjoy. "All right, for you, you enjoy to your fullest extent." And when he is tired of enjoying, enjoying, enjoying. Then Kṛṣṇa says that, "If you give up all this nonsense, just surrender to Me, you will be accepted." But the demons will never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. They say that this material world is false and Brahman is truth, but they do not know how to act as Brahman. Brahman means to stop. That is nirviśeṣavāda and śūnyavāda, to become void. But you cannot become void. If I say "Mr. such and such, you sit down here, try to become void," how long you shall do that, void?

Guest (1): No, that's impossible.

Prabhupāda: That's impossible. So this is a wrong theory. Because I am a living entity, I have got my activities. I can remain void for few seconds, for few minutes. (Guests enter and pay obeisances) Very glad to see you. (indistinct—break)

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We say...

Guest: The Absolute.

Prabhupāda: We say approaching Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute. We have got Kṛṣṇa's form, we have Kṛṣṇa's name, we have personal address, His pastime. Just like you know me, I know you, means I have got form, you have got form, I know your qualities, you know my qualities; therefore we know each other. But if the approach is void, then how the approach is the same? There must be something tangible; then the approach is the same.

Guest: Well, I know your philosophy, cause I was very intimately involved with it, but I still believe that if, uh, your uh, you may have a different style, and you may call it Kṛṣṇa consciousness or you may call it nirvāṇa, but I think that ultimately it's, uh...

Prabhupāda: I can, I can explain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you cannot explain nirvāṇa. That is the difficulty. I can explain my position but you cannot explain your position.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is nirvāṇa when you do not know the meaning of nirvāṇa? Nirvāṇa means finished.

Guest: Uh, yes. I think that...

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means everything finished, void.

Guest: Etymologically it means "no wind."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: "No wind."

Prabhupāda: No wind?

Guest: The root of the word, I believe, means "no wind." There's no wind.

Prabhupāda: No. You can derive many meanings, but nirvāṇa means, just like flame is there, extinguished, finished.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If desire is extinguished, then what you are?

Guest: But it's not extinguishing of desire; it's transforming of desire. Like this is one...

Prabhupāda: That is not extinguishing.

Guest: Right. But in the sense it is, uh, the uh, flame of, uh...

Prabhupāda: That we say. You don't extinguish desire but we purify desire. That is our... But that is not the void, nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means finished.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, actually they are doing. Although we see that from bodily point of view they have become weak, but they don't care for it. They... You see. If they had been weak how they are chanting and dancing saṅkīrtana? They are not weak at all. (Hindi) (break) "Now let me dance." Then I shall jump over your head." (Patel laughs) This is philosophy. "Now I am dāsa, then I become your master."

Dr. Patel: How can you be master when I am nothing? When I am dāsa, then I will be nothing before you.

Prabhupāda: That is voidism. You are something. How you are nothing?

Dr. Patel: How can you be the master of a master?

Prabhupāda: That is not possible, but these Māyāvādīs tries for this.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, you see, you are prescribing that "Why they are offering in the temple?" "Why you are offering in the the temple? Why not the daridras?"

Dr. Patel: You must offer in the temple. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...does not mean his nārāyaṇa-seva is null and void because he cannot distribute to the poor.

Dr. Patel: No, no, that I did not say.

Prabhupāda: Try to understand first this!

Chandobhai: Ha, just, just be quiet.

Prabhupāda: His nārāyaṇa-seva is there.

Dr. Patel: I understand him.

Prabhupāda: You will not allow anyone to speak. But you talk nonsense.

Dr. Patel: But you! You won't...! You...!

Prabhupāda: No, no! No, you try to understand! That because he cannot distribute food to others, that does not mean his nārāyaṇa-seva is null and void.

Dr. Patel: I did not say that sir!

Prabhupāda: Then why you are talking this?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Indian (3): No, exactly. We should not do anything...

Prabhupāda: No. (break) ...American, rude. That is my experience. He may not agree with my philosophy. (break) ...the reason is that they are not poverty-stricken. Yes. When one becomes poverty-stricken, his all good qualities become null and void. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi nāśī. Our country is now poverty-stricken. Therefore we have lost our all good qualities. (break) ...loss is that we have lost our culture, original Vedic culture. That is the greatest loss. When the culture was that one man was trying to kill one cow, and immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit wanted to take step against him. Now just see how much that culture has gone down. Here ten thousand, twelve thousand cows are being killed regularly under government management. You see. (break) ...for stopping cow-killing.

Indian (3): But even then they don't listen.

Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the... "Mahātmāji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. (break) ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is the duty of the vaiśyas.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But gradually... That does not mean you have improved very much. Because you do not believe in the ghost...

Indian man (1): Our mental condition has improved.

Prabhupāda: No, that does not mean... There are ghosts. Ghost means subtle life. It is not gross. So people know and has got some idea of the ghost, but they have no descriptive idea. Here is a descriptive idea. That is śāstra. Just like less than the śūdras, it is called pañcamas. How many pañcamas are there, that is described in the Bhāgavata. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). That is śāstra. Gives full explanation, full knowledge. Śāstra cakṣuṣā. We have to accept through the śāstra. Not that "Because I have not seen, therefore it is false." No. Vyāsadeva has no business to tell you something false. Otherwise he would not have been accepted as the supreme guru by all the sampradāyas. You cannot defy Vyāsadeva. He is saying, you have to accept. "I have seen. I have no experience," that doesn't matter. So many things you do not know. Just like a child has no experience what is the other side of the sea. Does it mean that there is nothing? A child may say like that, but a person who has visited the Arabian countries and others, "Oh no, no, no. There are so many things." So experience should be taken from a person who has got real experience. Not that "Because I cannot see, it is void." That is not experience.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: "What will happen to us when He is not there?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thinking of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: To think, it surrounds...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...everything is there, but centered around Kṛṣṇa. (break) Govinda viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitāṁ jagat sarvam. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Śūnyāyitāṁ jagat-sarvaṁ govinda viraheṇa me: "By Govinda's separation, whole world is void." You see? These are exhibited in the person of the...

Dr. Patel: That... (break)

Prabhupāda: "...Kṛṣṇa is gone, I shall die." This is govinda viraheṇa me. "Oh, what is the use of living if Kṛṣṇa is gone?"

Dr. Patel: He was just a boy of five, six, seven years. (break)

Girirāja: ...about a hundred hoods, how could Kṛṣṇa manage all of those hoods?

Prabhupāda: Oh, then you do not understand Kṛṣṇa. You are trying to understand Kṛṣṇa from your point of view. Kaliya may have unlimited number of hoods; still, Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself. That is Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking Kṛṣṇa from your standpoint of view.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in you under many influences, I think.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Under many influences.

Prabhupāda: No, influence should be only Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, God, but they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act. Where does He live. What is His form. What is his color. Nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all these?" (tape too faint to hear) (indistinct) If they think about it at all. First of all, generally they think of something impersonal or void. The Buddhists they think God is zero. And others they think God has no form. So, two classes. The Hindus they think God has not particular form, (indistinct). And you can imagine any of them(?) That is Śaṅkara. The pañcopāsanā. But still Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms—the Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Siva, the sun. Therefore there are sections—the sun worshipers, the fire worshipers. Originally, (indistinct). That is Vedic culture. Their Vedic culture means many demigods. But the original God is accepted, Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is no superior form or authority than Me." That is confirmed by Lord Brahmā, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah (Bs. 5.1). Kṛṣṇa is controller. There are different grades of controller but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam, "Unto Me, no one else." Now our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to convince people to give Him our attention, therefore we have published so many books only about Kṛṣṇa. On every page you'll find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. Either in Kṛṣṇa Book or in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, or in the Bhāgavatam or in Nectar of Devotion, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. The word(?) is Kṛṣṇa, that is simply explained in the (indistinct).

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The last chapter is entitled "Intellectual Amalgam, Psycho-social Implications." That will be Rūpānuga...

Prabhupāda: What is it?

Rūpānuga: It was their idea. In a book like this there has to be some social conclusion as to the effects of such atheistic theories.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the people are being misguided. That we want to stop. They have got this human form of body, that is an opportunity to understand himself and God and act accordingly. Now they are being misled. It is a social disservice. Cheating. In the name of scientist, they are exploiting this innocent person, taking their money and spoiling it without any good result.

Rūpānuga: My idea is that they are... Actually the scientists are preaching void. They are preaching to the people...

Prabhupāda: But what is the necessity of preaching void? Void is void, that's all.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in the world under many influences, I think...

Prabhupāda: No. The influence should be only Kṛṣṇa, or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of "Kṛṣṇa"—God. But they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act, where does He live, what is His form, what is His qualities—nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all this, about God?" They do not know. What do you think, Atreya? Have they any clear conception of God? They imagine something. If they think of God at all... First of all, generally they think of impersonal or void. Just like the Buddhists. They think God is zero. And others, they think that God has no form. The two classes. The Hindus they think, "Yes, God has no particular form, but He has got many forms. And you can imagine any one of them." That is Śaṅkara, the pañcopāsana. But still, Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms. The goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Śiva, the sun, then... Therefore there are a section who are the sun worshiper, or fire worshiper. Original Iranians were like that. So that is Vedic culture. There... Vedic culture means there are many demigods, but the original God is accepted-Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior form or superior authority than Me." And that is confirmed by Lord Brahmā. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ means controller. There are different grades of controller, but the supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekam: "Unto Me alone."

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition." So the Māyāvādī's idea of spiritual life means negation of these material activities. But they have no idea that similar activities are there in spiritual life, but that is not material. That is their poor fund of knowledge. Therefore we are... You are not understanding Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtīv hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. That I am explaining for the last few days. That is not at all this material. So unless there is loving affair in the spiritual world, how here it is as perverted reflection? It is the reflection of the reality. The reality is there. That they cannot understand. That is also hinted in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "There is another feature, or another nature," paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20), "which is sanātana, is eternal."

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Devotee (3): They say that they have not seen the life, though.

Prabhupāda: But what you can see, rascal? Therefore we say you are rascals. Why do you believe your eyes? You cannot see so many things. We don't find any living entity in the ocean. Does it mean there is no living entity? So what is the value of your seeing? That is the defect. They believe in too much their eyes. Although eyes are... Every sense is imperfect. You can see here: "Oh, we don't find anything. It is all zero." Does it mean the sky is zero? There are millions of planets and millions of living entities. So that is their rascaldom. They think that they are perfect. Whatever they see, that is perfect. That is their mistake. If I say, "No, there is no life. I cannot see," is that very good statement? And in the..., externally you don't find any living entity, but is it void of living entities? Then why shall I assert that "There is no living... I cannot see"? Is that very good proposal? Therefore they are rascals. There cannot be any place within this universe which is without life. There cannot be. We see there is life even within sand. How you can say there is no life? "Because I cannot see." What is this argument? What you are? You are a rascal. Because you cannot see, therefore we have to accept? First of all we say you are rascal. And if he says that "I cannot see," is it to be accepted? And the example is there. "I cannot see any life. It is simply water." But there are millions and trillions of life, big, big fish. Where is your perfection of seeing?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is nice.

Hariśauri: That's why the bowl is there. That's what I intended to do, but I have to keep it away from the table.

Prabhupāda: The principle should be that you should not leave remnants of food. As soon as it is used, it should not be used more. Otherwise it is not possible to give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 9.59). I am eating something not very superior, but if I get the chance of eating something superior, then I give up this inferior. So there is no question of making it vacant or void. To fill up the place with better thing.... So when you think of Kṛṣṇa, then you forget māyā. Otherwise you are entrapped with māyā. Why Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto? Mām eva ye prapadyante. This is wanted. As soon as you become anyābhilāṣī, then it becomes difficult. Where is that knife? Give me one amroot(?). Cut into pieces and get...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think these are from the local..., growing here.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Hari-śauri: Their idea is just to exploit.

Prabhupāda: Hah, yes. Everyone is trying to get more, and nature's order is that you take only to maintain your body and soul together. That's all. If you take more, then you are thief, you'll be punished by the laws of nature. This is going on. Laws of nature are so fine that by material activities you'll never be satisfied, and at the time of death, he'll lament that "I could not satisfy my desires. Let me take..." "All right, take another body. Satisfy." This is nature's punishment. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Simple things. We desire, and nature will give you another body. māyā-yantrārūḍhāni. He'll give you, "Ride on this car, you wanted, on this body." And this... This is creation of māyā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is there, orders māyā, "He wants to enjoy life. Give him this body." "Come on, here is a hog's body, eat nicely, stool. Come on." He did not like to eat prasādam. He wanted something rubbish. "All right, come here. Take this stool." These things are going automatically. The same way, as you infect some disease, immediately the disease is there. You haven't got to manufacture diseases. Because you have infected yourself with the disease germ, "Take this disease." Therefore it is warned, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11), "Don't desire anything except Kṛṣṇa's service." Then you are immune. Otherwise you have to take birth. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they take the Absolute Truth void, so they have no good desires, again they come to material desires.

Lokanātha: They want to be desireless.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is not wanted. He is spirit. He has nothing to do with this material world, but he wanted it. Or the real thing is that he wanted to enjoy by becoming the master. He is servant... Sometimes servants desire it that "Why I become servant? Why not master?" That is natural. But the natural position is he is servant. If he remains servant of Kṛṣṇa, then he's happy always. But because he desired to become master, so he cannot become master in the spiritual world, because in the spiritual world the master is one. So he is given the chance, "All right, go to the material world and become a master." But that is a falldown. So he's trying struggle for existence, and everyone is trying to become master. Even one is in this spiritual knowledge that "I am spirit soul," still he's trying to become master. That is Māyāvāda. They have understood that "I am not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, but I am the supreme Brahman." The same disease is there—master. Therefore they are condemned, arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam tataḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because the mentality to remain master is continuing, even they are in the Brahman, merge into the Brahman, the mastership mentality is there; therefore he falls down again. Because mastership exhibition can be done in this material world. So many Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they give up, "This world is false," and they merge, so-called merge, but the mastership mentality is there. But in the void, simply spiritual light, he cannot do any mastership; therefore again falls down in this false world, and he wants to be by becoming a leader of hospital, and school, college, a Christian missionary. And our Vivekananda also imitated that. So this, this is the material disease. He is actually servant, but he wants to become master. That is the defect. So he has to give up this mentality, mastership, then he'll be making real progress. Sarāopadhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, that "I am not master, I am servant." When he's fixed up on this platform, then he's liberated. Or in other words, when he feels pleasure, transcendental pleasure, remaining the servant, that is liberation. But as soon as he continues the mentality that "I want to be master," then he's in the māyā. That mentality he has to give up. Or he has to understand that "I'm not master; I am servant." That is liberation.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I had many letters, correspondence with him. He promised that "After retirement I shall join." Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yet when we went to visit him in Madras, I guess he was so...

Prabhupāda: No, that time he was finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He could not even recognize. He was failing.

Prabhupāda: No... I used to go to see him even at his house without engagement. And he liked me. He gave me many.... The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, this Nectar of Devotion. He gave some... I wrote correspondence with him. So he used to say, "Kindly pray to God for my salvation." He was not void. He was fearing God. But he did not accept this Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: This is the normal condition, that he fully surrenders and acts according to the dictation of Kṛṣṇa. This is surrender. He says also, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65)—four things. It doesn't require any... It is very easy. If you like, you can think of Kṛṣṇa always-man-manāḥ. And unless you love Kṛṣṇa, how you'll think of Him? Mad-bhaktaḥ. And bhakta will worship-mad-yājī. And worshiping means offering obeisances-māṁ namaskuru. These four things can do, any... Even a child can do. But they'll manufacture and ultimately come to the conclusion-void, finished. So our request is that life is not zero. It is a fact. Don't spoil it. Take His instruction from Bhagavad-gītā and become perfect. This is our request. And we have no difficulty. The authority is there, Bhagavad-gītā. We haven't got to manufacture anything, some artificial rules. The standard of knowledge is there. What is the difficulty? Why should you manufacture knowledge? They are imperfect. Whatever you manufacture, that is imperfect.

Page Title:Void (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Serene
Created:25 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=41, Let=0
No. of Quotes:41