Prabhupāda: Yes. I am an ordained minister for preaching these missionary activities. So I came here in September, 1965. Then, for one year, I was traveling in many parts of your country. In the beginning I was in Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, and then I went to Philadelphia. Then I came to New York. And in this way I was traveling, not very much. And in 1966, in July 1st, I started my class in New York at 26 Second Avenue. That is my first starting. Then the younger generation began to come to me, and they started the San Francisco branch, Montreal branch. In this way the institution is going. And we have sent our students to Europe also. They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling.
Very easy (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Expressions researched:
"very easier"
|"very easy"
|"very much easy"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interviewer: What else would you like to tell us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I like to tell to everyone that this human form of life is meant for reviving our original pure consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we should not waste time because life is very short. And therefore, before we meet next death, we must finish this job of understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness rightly so that our human mission may be fulfilled. Yes. That is what I want to say. This is a very scientific and authorized means of purifying consciousness, and it is very easy also at the same time. It can be accepted without any loss, but the gain is very great. So people should take advantage of this movement and fulfill the mission of human form of life.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (end)
Prabhupāda: What is their doubt?
Student (2): You can go all the way, all the way, all the way, and what do you find? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You can find. I cannot find.
Student (3): I wanted material world, being in spiritual consciousness is to get...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are trying that. Calling everyone, "Come and push your conscious." We are inviting everyone. There is no restriction. And it is very easy. Just try to dance and chant. That's all. In the treatment they are taking part. That child is taught something of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He'll be a very good child. So it is open to everyone. There is no restriction.
Student (4): (inaudible)
Prabhupāda: That I have explained, that changing our body, there are 8,400,000's of bodies. So after death, you enter in one of the bodies.
Student (4): And what happens?
Prabhupāda: As happens... As you enter the body, the happening is according to the body.
Student (4): But does this go on and on indefinitely or does it stop? Do you just keep changing bodies indefinitely or does it end?
Prabhupāda: Not indefinitely. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you haven't got to change this material body. You are transferred to the spiritual world. There is eternal body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am prepared to tell you, and this center is open for telling you. Our books are there. It is not a paltry subject that you can understand immediately, but I can give you one instance. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter—those who have got Bhagavad-gītā, they will see to it—that "Within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment." That is a fact. We say, "The child is growing." Growing or changing-practically the same thing. Actually, it is changing because the former body is no longer to be found. It has accepted, the soul has accepted, another body. This is going on from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, then old age. So, just like I am old man. I can remember my childhood body, my babyhood body, my boyhood body, my youth-hood body. So the body is no longer, but I am there. I am thinking that "I did do like this. I was playing like this with my body." But that body is gone, but still I am there. Therefore it is naturally surmised that when this body will not be existent, I will be existent. I will accept another body. This is very logical conclusion. As I am changing so many bodies, still I am there. I can understand that I changed my body. I was so little. Now I have grown up. I am old. But I am there. Similarly, it is concluded, when this body will not be there, but I will accept another body. This is very easy to understand, that that "I" is... Now, we can perceive that when you are spiritually emancipated, you will see yourself, God also, and everything spiritual. That requires time. That requires practice. And we are teaching our students that practice, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to change the consciousness. When you change your consciousness, you will see yourself, you will see God, everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. When you are in that spiritual platform, everything will be known to you. But before that, if you want to know, that is not possible. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Who will deny it? And the other asset they cannot estimate, that how much he is in contact with Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. That, they have no estimating power, but at least they will appreciate these external features. One clergyman, when I was going to Hawaii, he was talking with me. He said, "Swamiji, I have seen your disciples have a very nice face, glowing face." And "Yes, certainly. They must be. They are making spiritual progress." So it is not difficult. It is very easy. If you take to this, you have everything sublime and your life becomes sublime. You haven't got to give up anything. The material needs are there, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is not disallowed, but adjusted for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We cannot allow eating, mating, like animals, cats and dogs. No. That is not possible. You'll eat, you'll mate, but just like human being, civilized man. Then what is the distinction between animal and man if we behave like animals? Kṛṣṇa, God, is pure. So if you keep yourself in impure condition of life, then how you can make progress towards purity, highest perfection, purity? Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). In the Tenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa that "You are the purest of all." If you are going to reach the purest of all, how you can remain impure? This tapasya... This voluntary restraint means tapasya. Tapasya, there is a Sanskrit word, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily restraining or accepting some suffering condition. That is not actually suffering condition. Just like a patient. A doctor says, "You cannot take it." So he has the desire to take it, but doctor says that "you cannot take it." Therefore he mentally thinks that "Doctor has restricted this. I am suffering." Actually he is curing, but he thinks that "I am suffering." And when he's cured, he sees, "Oh, doctor is good friend. He told me not to indulge in this. Now I have done it. I am now cured." So tapasya means voluntarily one has to accept some so-called suffering. That is required to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, voluntarily acceptance, some so-called suffering. Tapaḥ divyam. That suffering is for transcendental realization. That is good. Tapo divyaṁ yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet (SB 5.5.1).
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Allen Ginsberg: So, as the Kali-yuga became more intense and as attachment became deeper and more confusing...
Prabhupāda: Attachment for?
Allen Ginsberg: ...that salvation would also have to become easier and easier in the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice statement that in the Kali-yuga salvation is very easier. That is the version of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, but that process is this kīrtana, not LSD.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, it was... The reasoning there, was that for those who would only accept salvation in purely material form, in chemical form finally, and completely material form...
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So where is the salvation when there is...
Allen Ginsberg: ...that Kṛṣṇa had the humor to emerge as a pill.
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that any of these material forms...
Allen Ginsberg: Yes?
Prabhupāda: ...then where it is salvation? It is illusion.
Allen Ginsberg: Well the subjective effect is to cut...
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: If He's not apprehensible by senses...
Prabhupāda: No. Why not senses? This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time... This is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. That is very easy... Suppose this is gold. But this gold is not the gold mine. There is a difference. It is gold. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa, but still is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-sthānī sthitasyajñer jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The same example, that the sun. The sun is, sun-god is situated one place, but it is fiery. Blazing fire. Its heat and light is expanded. You see practically, the heat and light. So whatever this material existence is the sunlight, sunshine. Everything existing on sunshine. It is scientific. Your electricity, your this, that, whatever you take it is all sunshine. All these planets are moving, rotating on the sunshine. Heat. If heat is taken away immediately whole thing spoiled. Therefore everything is resting on the energy of the sunshine, but if you say that "Then let me find out the sun-god in the sunshine," that you will have to go there.
Hayagrīva: The Christians, I think they say, God is more than His creation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. This creation is only a part of manifestation of His energy. Insignificant. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They do not know. They are after brahmaṇanda, transcendental pleasure, but they do not know what is actually transcendental pleasure, impersonalists. Therefore their intelligence is not clean. They go to the spiritual kingdom, transcendental platform, but they do not that know, how real transcendental pleasure can be achieved. Therefore their knowledge is not perfect.
Revatīnandana: When they want to come back, is it very easy for them to come back or have they got to...?
Prabhupāda: No, they automatically come back because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyāsīs. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedānta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedānta. Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a... Sannyāsī is here. he's a Kārpātrī. He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedānta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.
Revatīnandana: I have a hazy memory that one time I heard that when a soul, when it finally does enter into brahma-jyotir, that he has to remain there for some long duration of time, a daytime of Brahmā or a lifetime of Brahmā. Is that correct? What is that duration?
Prabhupāda: Not that. That is not like that.
Revatīnandana: Not like that. Thank you.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We have got Kṛṣṇa, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Nectar of Devotion, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Easy Journey to Other Planets, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is the Topmost Yoga System. In this way we have presented so many.
Mohsin Hassan: How about the meaning of the chanting. You are insist on chanting.
Prabhupāda: Chanting is to make the process very easy. Because in this age people are unfortunate, short living, and they are attracted in false things, they are very slow, they do not take it very seriously. Therefore chanting is a common platform. Anyone can chant. Anyone, even the child can chant, the old man can chant, the fool can chant, the intelligent can chant, the rich can chant, the poor can chant. So the chanting is a common; therefore it is becoming successful. And chanting means, Kṛṣṇa being absolute, Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa there is no difference. Absolute means there is no duality. As in this dual world there is difference between the name and the substance, in the absolute world there is no difference between the name and the substance. Both of them are the same. So therefore chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name means associating with Kṛṣṇa directly. And because they are associating with Kṛṣṇa directly, they're quickly becoming purified. Just like if you touch a metal rod to the fire, it becomes warm and then it acquires the quality of the fire. The metal rod, you can touch anywhere, it will burn, although it is metal rod. But because it acquired the quality of the fire, it can burn, it can act as fire. Similarly, if we constantly associate with Kṛṣṇa, then we acquire the spiritual quality. Then we can act as spiritual very quick. This is the point.
Guest: There's one philosophical point I would like you to elucidate. I haven't been able to quite understand, certainly the dualistic, incomprehensible... the dualistic-nondualistic philosophy which sees at the same time Kṛṣṇa, as comprehending all of man, all of the world, everything, within the body, we might say, of Kṛṣṇa, And at the same time however, one sees the world as distinct from Kṛṣṇa, in other words, as māyā, and as illusion. And it is this, the dualistic, I would like to... If you could just explain to me the difference between the... I mean, how this fits in, the monistic or the idea of the unitary view that Kṛṣṇa is everything, all and in all. And then at the same time that the world, there is this world of illusion which is somehow distinct from Kṛṣṇa. Could you just explain this point to me?
Prabhupāda: This is very easy to understand. Just like you are recording my speeches in the tape recorder. When you play back it will speak just like I am speaking, but I am not there. Is it not fact?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It will appear now I am speaking from beyond this world. Somebody's hearing, here somebody's speaking. Again, when the record player will play... (end)
Prabhupāda: No. So far we are concerned we are receiving knowledge directly from God. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. It is accepted, spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore if you take conclusion from the speeches delivered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that is fact. That is very easy authority. Just like the other day I was explaining to Mr. (indistinct) You are searching after who is your father but if you simply ask your mother, "Who is my father?" The truth is immediately disclosed. Immediately.
Dr. Weir: Being a lawyer, I would say that that doesn't necessarily follow.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Dr. Weir: Well, it's a wise woman sometimes who knows who's the father...
Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune if your mother cheats you. That's a different thing. That's different. We are expecting mother will not cheat us.
Dr. Weir: Some of them don't know!
Prabhupāda: That is a different thing. Suppose you are a lawyer. I put my faith in you but if you cheat me I lose the case. That is another thing.
Dr. Weir: Sometimes it's just honest ignorance.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if you are pāpī, if you see... Don't you see the sunlight?
Reporter: It's very easy to see.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you are pāpī. Do you think that you don't see the sunlight?
Reporter: Yes, we do.
Prabhupāda: So if Kṛṣṇa says, "The sunlight is Myself," what is the difficulty, even if you are pāpī? If..., don't... If you say, "I won't understand like that," that is another thing. But if the statement is clear, even if you are pāpī, what is the difficulty to understand? Simply if you say, "I won't understand," like this, that is a different thing.
Reporter: No, no, no. So how do you explain to a Muslim, he's...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You say one after another.
Reporter: Yes, sir.
Prabhupāda: Don't make me distressed. So try to understand.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You have raised that "I cannot understand." What is the difficulty to understand?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Reporter: It is very easy to... Sir, what is difficult to...
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is the difficulty. (Hindi)
Reporter: (Hindi) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is very simple, you see. Actually one who does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, for the neophyte, the prescription is there, that "You understand Kṛṣṇa like this." Because you are dealing with bhūmiḥ, you are dealing with water, you are dealing
with fire, you are dealing with air, you are dealing with sky, you are dealing with mind, you are dealing with intelligence. You are dealing with all these things. Well, Kṛṣṇa says, "They are display of My energy." And then again says apareyam: "These energies are inferior," itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, "and there is another energy superior." What is that? Jīva-bhūta, the living entity, mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). So what is the difficulty? I do not understand. He is explaining everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. Simply we have to take it as it is. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am this," and if you say, "No, Kṛṣṇa is not like this," so that is your nonsense. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this." If you want to understand, just like if you want to understand me, I say that "I am a sannyāsī, I am a preacher," and if you say, "No, you are not a preacher," then how you can understand? I am giving my identification that "I am this." So you have to understand. You are writing also, understanding like that. So why do you deny it when Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the origin. This is My energy"? What is the reason you deny it? What is the reason?
Prabhupāda: No. I am taking for example India, the president is the supreme personality. The president is the supreme personality. You have to admit it. You may accept him or not, but officially you have to admit. So in this whole creation, cosmic manifestation, there must be some Supreme Personality. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid as ti dhanañjaya: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior personality than Me." And we accept it. There is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person." So our knowledge is very easy. We don't make any research. Here is Kṛṣṇa says that He is the Supreme Personality—we accept it. That's all. It is very simple.
Reporter: Can we see Him, just as we see Lalaji?
Prabhupāda: And why not? Why not?
Reporter: But with these eyes or the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, with these eyes. Simply you have to purify. Just like Lalaji, now he is known here. We can see. But he goes in the streets, nobody knows him. So you mis..., might have seen Lalaji; he cannot see. Is it not? Tell me this? One who does not know Lalaji, Lalaji on the street, then even Lalaji meets him he does not see him. Why?
Reporter: Question of eyes and knowing, sir.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then he has to make prepare his eyes to see Lalaji.
Reporter: So, sir, how do we prepare eyes to see?
Prabhupāda: That is, that is the question.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Well, in America there are so many things which requires thorough reformation. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. When I went to your country, so I saw these boys and girls, they're living like friends. I said that "You cannot live as friends; you must get yourself married."
Bob: Many people see that even marriage is not sacred. So they find no desire to... Because people get married, and if things are not proper they get divorced so very easy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that also.
Bob: ...that some people feel to get married is not meaningful.
Prabhupāda: No, the idea is that marriage is not sacred. They think marriage is a legalized prostitution. They think like that, but marriage is not that. Even that Christian paper, what is that, "Watch...?"
Śyāmasundara: Christian..."Watchtower?"
Prabhupāda: "Watchtower." It has criticized, one priest has allowed the marriage between man to man, homosex. So these things are going on. They take it purely for prostitution. That's all. So therefore people are thinking, "What is the use of keeping a regular prostitution at a cost of heavy expenditure? Better not to have this."
Śyāmasundara: You use that example of the cow and the market?
Bob: How do I do this?
Prabhupāda: This process, as they are doing. You have seen. These boys are, our six boys, they are now initiated today. It is very simple. You have to follow the four restrictive regulations and chant this beads. Very easy.
Bob: Well, um, but... See, when I'm back in Bihar and following my lifestyle there, I..., if I follow all these regulative principles... Some I follow now, but not all... But if I follow all...
Prabhupāda: Some means?
Bob: Some...
Prabhupāda: There are only four regulative principles. Some means three, or two?
Bob: Two or three.
Prabhupāda: So why not other one?
Bob: No, no, I mean I follow one or two now. One or two now I follow.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why not the other three? What is the difficulty?
Bob: Umm...
Prabhupāda: Which one you follow?
Prabhupāda: No. So good karma means performance of the yajñas as they are prescribed in the Vedic literature. And this purpose of this yajña is to satisfy the Supreme Lord. Just like good citizen means one who satisfies the government. Law-abiding. Good citizen. Similarly, good karma means who satisfies Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Lord. Unfortunately, the modern civilization, they do not know what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and what to speak of satisfying Him. They do not know. They are simply busy in material activities. Therefore, all of them are doing only bad karma, and therefore they are suffering. They are blind men and leading some other blind men. And both of them are expanding the path to hell by bad karma. Bad karma, you suffer. That is very easy to understand. If you do something criminal, you'll suffer. If you do something benevolent for the state, for the people, then you are rewarded, you are recognized, you are given title. Sometimes shot. This is good and bad karma. So... (microphone noise) ...some material happiness, and bad karma means you suffer from material distress. By good karma you get birth in good family, janma. You get riches, good money. Then you become learned scholar, you become beautiful also. Sit down. There is some trouble with your leg? What is that?
Devotee: There is an infection in this ankle.
Prabhupāda: Ankle? Oh, there was some... (break)
Prabhupāda: Danish, yes. And we are getting also Hindi layout from India. That Hindi magazine also will be printed. Gradually other Indian languages. And Japanese and Chinese also. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...
Karandhara: If Dai Nippon opens a liaison office in Los Angeles, then it will be very easy to work. The contract is for all the jobs.
Prabhupāda: The officer who will remain there, he will be final or you have to consult with Mr. Ogata(?) and...?
Karandhara: Well, their liaison officer there, he will correspond with Tokyo. They will fix up estimates and confirmations. But it will make the communication better.
Prabhupāda: (chants japa) So there are many Japanese vegetarian? Or he is only.
Dai Nippon Representative: Lately it is quite increasing in Japan, yes, becoming popular, because we have a lot of problems with pollution. We have a lot of social problem like pollution, traffic jam. So people, in order to keep good health, vegetarian is very good for health.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vegetarian food is very nice. We can give you vegetable menu, three hundred items at least.
Dai Nippon representative: Three hundred?
Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: When things are not very clear, not easily understood... There is example in Sanskrit grammar, gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa bali(?). The neighborhood of ghoṣa family is on the Ganges. Now, on the Ganges-Ganges is water—how there can be a village? Now, here interpretation required. When the matter is (break) ...on the water but on the bank of the Ganges. So when the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. But when the meaning is clear... Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on. So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited. And it can be... We are preaching that. We are the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for one God, one scripture, one mantra, like that, for all people of the world. And we are happy that people are accepting it in that way, very nicely. And it is very easy. It is very easy. So Mr. Director he has read Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Confirm the symptoms. If he says: "Yes," then immediately diagnosis is there. And as soon as diagnosis is there, the medicine is there. Simple method. Similarly, astrologers, they will see the constellation of the stars, and then the formula is there. "If this star is now with this star, if that planet is with that planet, then this is the result." So this Āyurvedic astrologer and physician requires little clear brain. Otherwise, very nice. The research work is already there. Just like we are. What is our research? Kṛṣṇa says: paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). "There is another nature." We believe it. We have not gone to another nature. But Kṛṣṇa says: "There is another nature, spiritual nature." This is, this material nature, inferior nature, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), apareyam, this is inferior. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). There is another superior nature. What is that? The living force. Who will argue? So we have got very easy method. And because we are receiving all this information from the most perfect, therefore our knowledge is perfect. That's all. And for all these rascals, śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Unnecessarily they're laboring. They cannot come to the right conclusion. Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. Oh, what is the good quality? If you unnecessarily work without any result, then what is your qualification?
Brahmānanda: Mūḍha.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, ass. The ass works without any profit. So these are asses. Without coming to the right conclusion, they're working hard, day and night, and spending lots of money. So mūḍhas. (pause) Why the scientists are searching out protons, neutrons? To find out the original cause. So they could not find the original cause. They see the middle work only, how the proton is working, neutron is working, atom is working. But wherefrom this arrangement came? How they are working systematically? They do not know. So what is their science?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By investing, by, by finding out the different ways of..., they're called conveniences. So by producing these things makes much more comfortable.
Prabhupāda: Easier. Easier to die. They have invented the atomic. Very easy to kill. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa ... (pause) But, in, despite all these disadvantages, if the scientists bring in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then that is success. It will be success. The sea, without waves, does not look well. Without waves, when the sea's calm and quiet, it does not look well. What do you think? Eh?
Karandhara: It does not look well?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now with waves it looks beautiful.
Karandhara: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that is the property of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: No, everything has got some quality and beauty. Just like Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says: nārīṇāṁ bhūṣaṇaṁ patiḥ. Woman, the personal beauty is not beauty. When she has got a husband, then she's beautiful. How scientific it is. All these girls in your country, without husband, they're all morose, unhappy. They have no fixity of husband. Is it not?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: How to measure, that is a different thing, but the measurement is there.
Krishna Tiwari: What is the measurement?
Prabhupāda: The one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair.
Krishna Tiwari: Well that's very easy to measure.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you find it.
Krishna Tiwari: But that's probably the reason. Nothing is there, just a number, because...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Krishna Tiwari: This is just a number, because one-thousandth part of hair is just a big number that...
Prabhupāda: Not one thousandth. One ten-thousandth.
Krishna Tiwari: That doesn't matter. You can make it one millionth.
Prabhupāda: How's that?
Krishna Tiwari: It will be a measure of a distance, which is very easy. That cannot be a source.
Prabhupāda: So... No. That cannot be so easy. It is definitely said, jīvaḥ bhāgasya vijñeyaḥ. Jīva means solo, soul. Soul's measurement is given there in the śāstra.
Śyāmasundara: Just like by my knowing David, it's very easy to understand his sculpture.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: But someone who's just seeing his sculpture, they don't know what...
Prabhupāda: That is not perfect knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: They don't know what he's like.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge is when you understand the creator. What do you think?
David Wynne: I think yes. I'm not sure that the analogy..., I think that the greatest... Well, it is true because with the greatest sculpture, one does get to the full understanding, but if one really understands the universe, well, one would see God, I suppose.
Prabhupāda: No.
David Wynne: No.
Prabhupāda: You have to penetrate. You have to understand who has created this universe.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation continues for some sentences.) Who is practicing this? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). He cannot be called a brāhmaṇa unless he acts according to his guṇa. If he's acting in differently, he should be... (break) ...utilized by the liberated person, still we can use it, provided we stop this process of animal killing. Then it will be very easier. This medicine... The doors will be... Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Therefore whoever comes to us to become our student, our first proposition is that "You should give up these four principles, illicit sex, animal-eating, gambling and intoxication, up to drinking tea, coffee, cigarette." This is our condition. So the more you practice to these four prohibitive regulations, then you realize. Śrotramāno 'bhirāmāt. It will be very pleasing to the ear and to the mind. And unless anything is very pleasing, you cannot continue. Artificially, you can chant for few minutes. But if it becomes pleasing to you, then you can chant twenty-four hours, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ.
Prabhupāda: So far hospitality is concerned, according to Vedic culture, Indian homes were open for everyone, even for the enemies. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. If one gets an enemy at his home as guest, he should receive him in such a way that the man would forget about his enmity with him. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. So these are preliminary human behavior. Even without any understanding of spiritual values, they are expected to behave nicely.
Buddhist Monk (1): Yes. It is very easy to love someone who loves you. But real purified, selfless love is to radiate it without any discrimination, both to the person who loves and to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore I said...
Buddhist Monk (1): ...whom does not love you. That is the beginning...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said.
Buddhist Monk (1): ...of that good hospitality. That's real hospitality.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... That I said, Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. Even one gets an enemy, he should be also be received.
Buddhist Monk (1): He's come to your place and treat him with all the respect and courtesy...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): ...and that loving kindness.
Prabhupāda: Four hundred years ago the land was there. They, these Europeans, migrated there. Now they are proprietor. So four hundred years ago, who was the proprietor. In this way, trace history. The land is there, the ocean is there, everything is there. We sometimes claim that "I am the proprietor," "We are the proprietor," but this is lying there. Who is actually the proprietor? Actually proprietor is God, Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is owned by the supreme īśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So if we study scrutinizingly, then we'll find God is the proprietor actually. He is the creator; therefore He is the proprietor. And because He is the proprietor, He is friend of all. Actually. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, and He's giving us good counsel. We are not abiding by that. We are disobeying. Therefore we are suffering. Otherwise, He's giving us good counsel, good advice. So this formula, that bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām... (BG 5.29). So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view... Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago. And that old thing we are presenting as it is. Our Bhagavad-gītā is therefore named Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Without any interpretation. Without any addition, alteration. No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? We don't do that. And that is proving effective. Those who are taking according to the instruction, they're becoming happy. Practical. Without any consideration of time, country, people. Anyone is accepting, and he's becoming happy. And they are not expected to undergo very severe type of austerities. Neither prāṇāyāma or yoga. They are unable. Simply I have advised them, "With these beads chant Hare Kṛṣṇa sixteen rounds." They are chanting. It is very easy. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma... Sixteen rounds. It takes about two hours. And they're refraining from four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, gambling, intoxication, meat-eating. This much they are following austerities, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, taking prasādam. They are happy. Anyone can take. It is not difficult at all. Anyone. They are gṛhasthas. It is not that one has to become a sannyāsī. No. All my, these disciples... Here is a gṛhastha. Here is a sannyāsī. Here is a brahmacārī. So all together, they are serving the same purport. And we are getting good result. You have seen our Ratha-yātrā?
Prabhupāda: That... Again I am quoting that Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after this body there is no life." That is their conviction. This is the primary teaching of spiritual life, that we have got next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Dehāntaram. After giving up this body, you have to accept another body. This is the first lesson of spiritual education. But they do not understand the first lesson even. What is their spiritual understanding?
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
So dehāntara-prāptiḥ they do not understand. And it is very easy, that "I am, dehāntaram, I am changing my body. I was a baby, I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man. So I have changed so many bodies. But I remember, I was a child. I remember. I was a boy. I remember. Therefore I am existing. My body has changed." Simple truth. Similarly, when this body will be changed, I will exist. Where is the difficulty to understand? But this plain thing they cannot understand. And they are passing as educated, philosopher, scientist. This plain truth, they cannot understand. The brain is so dull. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "As I have changed so many bodies..." I exist. I remember, I had this body. So I may forget. Suppose in my babyhood, what was the feature of my body, I do not know. But there was. My mother knows. He can, she can explain, "My dear child, you were like this, you were like this."
Prabhupāda: Because God is unlimited, He has got unlimited energy. have got limited energy. I can pass urine, say one pound, I can have perspiration say, one ounce but if God likes He can produce unlimited water. Why this one Atlantic Ocean? Many millions of Atlantic Oceans He can produce. Water produced from His body. So where is the difficulty to understand? When Kṛṣṇa says that the elements... Other matters are growing. Just like the hair. Now, today, I have shaved. Three days after, again it will grow. So I have got my energy within by which I'm constantly growing. But, hair is a material thing. So anything you take, it grows from the Supreme. It is very easy to understand.
Guest: Hmm. And ah, this inside, it grows because of Kṛṣṇa does it?
Prabhupāda: Everything is growing on account of Kṛṣṇa. Your body, inside or outside, it is made of these five elements: earth, water, air, fire, like that. It is nothing but combination of these five elements.
Guest: Is the water inside the same as the water in the ocean?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: It's the same water.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You... Have you tasted ever perspiration?
Guest: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Perspiration, have you tasted?
Prabhupāda: No.
Dr. Hauser: ...insight.
Prabhupāda: It is very easy, very easy. Just like we, we recommend this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Anyone can chant. Even child can chant.
Haṁsadūta: His point is that we, our processes skips all this work that they do in an ordinary psychiatric ward or...
Dr. Hauser: No. Yes. Or in specific processes which are directed towards insight, the same kind of insight that I imagine you are striving for.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We ask them to refrain from four prohibitive principles. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Refrain from these prohibitions. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And he becomes sane, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Very easy.
Dr. Hauser: Yeah, it sounds easy. I hope it works.
Prabhupāda: You see all the examples. Well, the same... I have not given them any bribe or anything.
Dr. Hauser: No, no, no. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: That they'll talk in my favor. But talk with them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Energy of the soul. As soon as the soul is passed from the body, there is no more consciousness. It is very easy to understand. They cannot explain why the consciousness stops. They cannot explain. But that is the symptom. Yena sarvam idam, avināśi tu tad viddhi..., yena sarvam idam, in the Bhagavad-gītā. That thing which is spreading the energy all over the body, that is eternal. Now, what is that thing which is spreading the consciousness? It is the soul. So long the soul is there, you have got consciousness, otherwise there is no consciousness. Very plain word. Avināśi tu tad viddhi. Just try to understand that thing which is spreading consciousness all over the body. Just like a small grain of poison. As soon as you take it, immediately it will spread all over the blood. Even a small grain. And then how much powerful is that spiritual spark?
Devotee (2): So the grain is carried by the blood. What is the spiritual spark carried by?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual spark is not carried by, but he resides within the body. He is carried by his own karma, subtle, subtle desire is carried. Everyone is carried by his desire. Why did I come here, in America? I have got a desire to preach; therefore I've come. Otherwise I had no business to come here. So desire. So desire carries you. That is, the rascals, they do not know. Desire is there, they cannot see, but desire is there. Mind is there, intelligence is there; they cannot see. That is carried. The example is given, just like the aroma of a flower is being carried by the air. And nobody can see, but one can feel, "Oh, it is very good, nice aroma. Wherefrom it is coming?" But he has no eyes to see either the aroma or the air. Similarly, the soul after destruction of this body is being carried by the desire, but they have no eyes to see what is that desire, what is that soul, what is that intelligence. They are saying, "There is no soul." This is mostly stupidity.
Prabhupāda: "Do you feel like this? Do you feel like this? Do you do this, like this?" If it is corroborated, then his diagnosis is given: "He has got this disease." So similarly, in Jyotir-veda they have got similar symptoms: "If such and such stars are now nearer to this star"—they have got this calculation—"then the position is this." So they learn very quickly. Indian brāhmaṇas, they learned Jyotir-veda, Āyur-veda, very quickly. Because brāhmaṇas they are meant to go to every house to inform the date, the everything. So generally people are inquisitive about the health. So they ask, "Now I am feeling like this." So they give medicine. And they give some astrological hint also. So in this way people gave them some contribution. That is their livelihood. So this... All the systems were made very easy on account of this Vedic injunction. So therefore we take Vedic knowledge as perfect, and we understand everything by Vedic knowledge about God, about His place, about His activities. And God comes as incarnation. He sends His representative. Then it is corroborated. And that is perfect knowledge of God. Kṛṣṇa's, God's feature—everything is described in the Vedas: Brahma-saṁhitā, Yajur-veda, Sāma-veda, like that. And when Kṛṣṇa descends, He practically demonstrates all the symptoms of God. So then we accept God. And it is confirmed by authorities. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa Himself says that "I am the Supreme." Arjuna accepts, the direct listener from God. And later on, the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, who control the society, just Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they accept. Latest, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepts. So our guru-paramparā all accepts Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa describes Himself. So where is the difficulty to understand God? The symptoms are there in the śāstras. And those symptoms are visible in Kṛṣṇa. Just like everyone can understand, "God is all powerful." So Kṛṣṇa showed that He is all powerful. So there is no difficulty to understand. So our method is easy. Instead of intellectual gymnastic, we take it very easily. And that acts. Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically.
Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. Do it.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (Prabhupāda gets in the car)
Prabhupāda: If you can educate the people. "Don't vote for the rascals. Just try to understand who is the real man, who is the real leader."
Hṛdayānanda: So political program is very important.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If public is educated to select right type of leader, then automatically... And it is very easy thing that "Leader must be faithful. A leader must know what is God and how to trust in Him. And he must be free from all sinful activities. The pillars of sinful activities are these." This is our propaganda. (end)
Prabhupāda: It is not the opinion. We are placing the..., as it is, without opinion.
Umāpati: Well. Those are those terms. It is very difficult to overcome those...
Prabhupāda: So preaching is always difficult. That I have repeatedly saying. You cannot take preaching very easy-going. Preaching must be fight. Do you mean to say fighting is easy thing? Fighting is not easy thing. Whenever there is fight, there is danger, there is responsibility. So preaching means... What is the preaching? Because people are ignorant, we have to enlighten them. That is preaching.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: When you came to the western world, no one anywhere believed that it would be successful I think. But actually, it has become very successful, by preaching.
Prabhupāda: I myself did not believe I shall be successful, what to speak of others, but because I did in the proper line, so it has become successful.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that we expect something and He gives us hundred times more.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: So if we simply follow your instructions, then I am sure that it will come out glorious.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: So if we are in the proper line, then our political activities also can become successful?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, marginal.
Bali Mardana: It is a good headquarters for you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: For USA, 'cause then... It is very easy to come from the mainland.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So make a headquarters.
Bali Mardana: O.K.
Sudāmā: We can make... We'll make a nice house for you on the land.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Very nice. (japa) (break) Where? Here?
Sudāmā: Yes, they're cows, but they keep them very poorly, treat them very badly.
Prabhupāda: Why? You keep cows nicely.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Jayaśrī: On Kauai they have tulasī plants and they have a cow.
Sudāmā: There's some devotees on another island and they have tulasī plants and a cow there.
Prabhupāda: ...to understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), there is no more greater truth than Me. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), I am the Lord of all the planetary systems, sarva-loka. So why should you go to others if you think that Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no greater personality than Kṛṣṇa? Take the instruction from Kṛṣṇa. It is very easy.
Guest (1): Where is Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Huh? To take instruction from Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): Of course. As much as He allows me.
Prabhupāda: So, He allows everything. What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), you give up everything just surrender unto Me. So if you surrender (indistinct), but if you don't that is your business.
Guest (1): How does one surrender?
Prabhupāda: ...by enjoying this morning fresh air.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if you take bath in the Yamunā, you will get double energy. These are nature's gifts. And then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. To live a spiritual life (is) very easy. (break) ...take photo.
Devotee: Oh, I can do that.
Prabhupāda: One side.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So if somebody can manufacture by seeing the photograph in Jaipur. That's all right. Otherwise we shall test (?). (break) ...marble statues, by seeing the morning. (break) ...actual measurement.
Gurudāsa: Oh. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...our gṛhastha householders, how they are rising early, taking bath in Yamunā, coming to the temple.
Gurudāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is Vedic culture. (break) ...of eating. Western culture means: early in the morning tea. First of all tea, and, what is called?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): After all, ego is the president of all aggregate.
Prabhupāda: That surrender has been explained by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He has written a nice song. Mānasa, deho, geho, jo kichu mora. It is very easy to understand.
Guest (1): Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda:
mānasa, deho, geho, jo kichu mora
arpiluṅ tuwā pade, nanda-kiśora!
Guest (1): Nanda-kiśora. Correct, correct.
Prabhupāda: "Nanda-kiśora, what I have got? I have got a restless mind and I have got my family, home, wife, children, and this body. This is my possessions. I am not the proprietor of the whole world or universe. But I am pro... I suppose, I think like that, that I have got a mind, think like nonsense and do like nonsense, and I have got this body, and I have got my family. So everything I surrender." This is surrender. Don't think anything else, what Kṛṣṇa does not like. That is first surrender. No reservation, that "So much I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, and I contemplate like this, like that, like that." That is not surrender.
Guest (1): That is not surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante.
Mr. Sar: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante... (BG 7.15).
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Now, here the question... Here the question is that mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. So it is very easy thing. Why not surrender to Kṛṣṇa and become free from māyā? But their... The answer is there: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Four types of people.
Prabhupāda: Rascals and mūḍhās and sinful men, they do not do that.
Mr. Sar: And then again, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ...
Prabhupāda: But those who are pious, sukṛtina, they do.
Dr. Patel: Catur-vidhā bhajante... My name is Caturbhai. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Mr. Sar: One of them, catur-vidhā. But they... Their mode of worship is fourfold, ārto jijñāsur arthārthī... (break)
Prabhupāda: Ārto, ārto jijñāsi means gṛhasthas.
Dr. Patel: Teṣāṁ jñānī...
Prabhupāda: And jñānī and jijñāsu, sannyāsīs.
Dr. Patel: Execute the order of the guru.
Prabhupāda: Guru. Yes. Very easy. That is the secret. Yasya deve parā bhaktir tathā deve yathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Then he is sure to be successful. This is the secret.
Dr. Patel:
- samo 'ham sarva-bhūteṣu
- na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ
- ye bhajanti tu māṁ bhakt yā
- mayi te teṣu cāpy aham
- (BG 9.29)
Prabhupāda: Just see. They bhajanti, and these rascals has announced, "This bhajana is nuisance." Just see. This is Kali-yuga, and this is our Indian government. Ye bhajanti māṁ teṣam. He is always associating with God. "I am always with him," ye bhajanti, and this rascal has remarked, "bhajana nuisance." Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. These are the statements. But we are... We did not take any...
Dr. Patel: They are durācaris(?).
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we should have taken some step against this, the "Why you have said like this?" But nobody has taken.
Dr. Patel: But we are going to take steps. Let that man come.
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Nitāi: There are various grades of men, and out of many thousands one may be sufficiently interested in transcendental realization to try to know what is the self, what is the body, and what is the Absolute Truth. Generally mankind is simply engaged in the animal propensities, namely eating, sleeping, defending and mating, and hardly anyone is interested in transcendental knowledge. The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogīs and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman.
Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti or devotional service is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:
Prabhupāda: Yajña means to satisfy the Supreme Lord. That is yajña. So in the Kali-yuga the yajña is made very easy. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So anywhere you go, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and see that there will be clouds, there will be rainfall, and just work little, you get your foodgrains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yogeśvara: They won't like that idea.
Prabhupāda: That means their... That is their disease. The same thing, that "Why you are sitting here? Come with me, work." "What shall I do by working?" "You get money." "Then you'll enjoy." "And I am already enjoying." That the... This is called māyā. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for little temporary so-called benefit, they have created this working civilization, "Work very hard, very hard." That's all. Whole history... In this Rome city you can see. There are evidences. These buildings are constructed with hard labor. Now those rascals have gone, and they are maintaining, that "They worked so hard." Those who worked very hard they have gone away. Now nobody knows where they are and what they have become. But they are maintaining their bricks. That's all. Brick civilization. (break)
Yogeśvara: No one goes into the park at night. Too dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.
Prabhupāda: As long as they will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have to tolerate. They must suffer. That is nature's law. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā... (BG 7.14). You cannot escape all these miserable conditions of... Mām eva ye prapadyante. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you escape. What is difficulty to become Kṛṣṇa conscious? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Simply always think of Me." We have got nice Kṛṣṇa. And attend the temple, and we see. And what is the difficulty to think of Him always? Or chanting, hearing His name. So there is no difficulty in remembering Kṛṣṇa always. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. To become devotee, worship the Lord in the temple, prepare food for Him, and take the prasādam—where is the difficulty? The program which we have introduced, where is the difficulty there? But the rascals will not take. That is the difficulty. They will become hippies, but they will not become devotees. Although a better position. This is their misfortune. Duṣkṛtina, misfortune. In spite of the things being so easy to perform, they will not take to it, on account of misfortune. Duṣkṛtina. Because they have committed so many sinful activities, it is difficult to accept this. Otherwise, the thing which we are presenting is very easy to be accepted by anyone, even by a child. And actually we see. The children, they are also dancing, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and very happy. In Dallas. In all schools the children are unhappy, their face. And we see in Dallas, all children, they are so happy. The teacher is happy. The student is happy there. Have you not marked the face in the picture, how they are happy. Did you mark it?
Bhagavān: A little material benefit, that increase, they take to be spiritual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gymnastic. Just like a man, by bodily exercise, he becomes a little strong. His digestive function becomes very easy, he can eat more. He can enjoy more sex life. These benefits they want. And if you promise all these benefits, they become attracted. And they cannot understand, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, we do not accept anymore material body, but go to back to home, back to... These things they cannot understand.
Yogeśvara: Can we take a picture right here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: It is beyond their understanding.
Bhagavān: We are the only ones who are preaching like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual benefits, they do not understand. What is this building? This is also old construction?
Bhagavān: It's a church. (asking someone:) Is that from the Roman empire? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...in right position. All wonderful buildings, there is no doubt. Such huge buildings in any other parts of the world is not visible. Just the thickness of the building.
Bhagavān: They kept many slaves the Romans. They had many slaves.
Haihaya: The communists, they kicked us from the university in Mexico, because we were always defeat there in the philosophy. It is very easy to defeat communists with this philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to do. There may be opposition, but what can be done? We have to speak the resu..., that "There cannot be equality sir. You are talking nonsense." Challenge them, and let them prove that "Here is equality." Where is equality? Where is equality? You are human being. You are trying to live very comfortably. Why don't you make comfortable life for other living entities? Why you are sending them to the slaughterhouse? Where is equality?
Haihaya: If we have a world day every month, fasting world day. If we can fast, all the world can fast, all inhabitants of the world...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.
Satsvarūpa: Their philosophy is very appealing because they begin, they say...
Prabhupāda: So it is confirmed by the greatest authority, and if we practice... This practice can be done in the association of devotees. And that is perfection of life. There are some conditions about self-control: no meat-eating, no fish, no eggs, no illicit sex life, and no intoxication, even smoking, drinking tea, and no gambling. And chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Very easy. And everyone can perform it without undergoing the bodily exercises, which is sometimes difficult for a common man. So one can adopt this bhakti-yoga process and become perfect. And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If one becomes accustomed to this habit and at the time of death, he thinks of Kṛṣṇa, then his life is perfect. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran?
Nitāi:
- yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ
- tyajaty ante kalevaram
- taṁ tam evaiti kaunteya
- sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ
- (BG 8.6)
Prabhupāda: Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Yes, this is very important.
Nitāi: "Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits this body, that state he will attain without fail."
Prabhupāda: So we are practicing this bhakti-yoga and teaching others also.
M. Roost: And when people are not prepared, for example, to be vegetarian and to..., when his mind is not prepared to his life what are you doing? How can you educate people to come...?
Prabhupāda: So in another place also it is said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), mām evaiṣyasi, asaṁśaya. "If you want to enter in the kingdom of God, always think of Me," man-manā, "and you just become My devotee and worship Me and offer your obeisances." These four principles, it is not difficult. To achieve the kingdom of God is not at all difficult. It is very easy. Anyone can go. But they are not prepared to accept the process. That is their misfortune. Otherwise, always thinking of God. We are thinking something, but the thinking should be turned towards God. That is our teaching. They are always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So by uttering the word Kṛṣṇa, immediately you think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. It is not difficult at all. And you can always think of, just like these boys have been taught, walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma... Just like we have got this. I am talking with you, but two minutes I talk with you, as soon as I stop, I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma... What is the difficulty? It is simply practice. No difficulty. And simply by chanting the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, everyone can see how these young boys and girls, they are not very old, they have taken to it quite young, but they have forgotten everything. They do not go to cinema, do not go to hotel, no dancing. Dancing they have got—Kṛṣṇa dancing, always. Painting they have got, singing they have got, arts, literature. We have got eighty books like this, four hundred pages. Pure life—no meat eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling. Finished. And it is guaranteed if you remain in this attitude, Kṛṣṇa says that "Surely you come back to me." What is the second line? Man-manā...
Prabhupāda: In another place it is said asaṁśaya, that is in the Eighteenth Chapter. So to go back to home, back to Godhead, is very easy, but people will not take to it. They are stubborn; they will stick here, the miserable life, material life. This is the difficulty. Otherwise, God can be achieved very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yukta(tamo mataḥ)
- (BG 6.47)
The first-class yogis. Actually no education required. Simply God has given us the tongue and the ear. So it's Hare Kṛṣṇa, tongue, and hear with the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir: by hearing, the sound enters into the heart. In this way you become purified, mind is cleansed, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It is very scientific and very easy. And we are recommending—"we" means Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He says that "You chant the name of God." Now, if somebody thinks "Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God, why shall I chant?" it doesn't matter. You chant your conception of God. What is the name of God in Christianity? Is there any name?
Prabhupāda: So poor Christ has taken all concern. He will be crucified, and they will enjoy life. This is very easy religion. "I have nothing to do, and besides that, if Christ says something to do, that also we can neglect because he has taken guarantee. So although Christ says, 'Thou shalt not kill,' I can neglect that." And then, if still he is captured, he will say, "Bible is very old."
Haṁsadūta: How can we accept it?
Prabhupāda: (laughing) How they have made easy life, that see. They are... There is a story that a boy went for examination. So when he came back, his father asked, "My dear boy, how you have written your question paper?" "Yes, very nice." "How?" "No, those questions which were very difficult, I could not answer. And the easier questions, what is to write? I know everything. (laughter) Easier questions, there is no need of writing. I know everything." Both ways he has not written anything. So these rascals, both ways they will not follow anything. And still, they will credit... Not only Christians, everywhere these people want to banish God. Simply we are canvassing "God, God, God." Otherwise nobody cares. Say about 1945, so in front of my house there was an old man. So as neighbor, we had very good talks always. So as soon as I say, "Bhagavān," he will be angry. "God." So one day he said, "Why you always say Bhagavān, God?" Just see, an old man and still he is such a rascal. He did not like. That is called demonism. Even the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that five years old boy, he was doing nothing harm, simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—he became angry: "No, no." So big enemy that he wanted to kill him. This is demoniac. Some bad smell?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is experienced, but on account of his foolishness he is thinking otherwise. He knows that "I am not this body. I am now in this body of old man, but I was not in this body, say, fifty years ago. Therefore I am not this body, that body or this body. I am different from the body." This is very easy experience. I am existing. I understand that I existed in a baby's body. I existed in a child's body, boy's body. So I have now changed so many bodies. Therefore I am not this body. Just like you dress. You are now in black coat, and next moment you can be in other color. But you are not this coat. You have changed the coat. Similarly, I have changed the body, but I am not this body. This is self-realization. First of all let me know that "I am not this body; I am living within this body." You are not this coat. If I ask you, "Mr. Blackcoat," that is my foolishness. You are neither black coat or white coat. And that is self-realization.
Professor Durckheim: And yet isn't there difficulty. You can already have understood very well that you are not the body, but as long, for instance, as you have still fear of death, you didn't understand that experience. As soon as you understood by experience, you have no fear of death because you know that you can't die.
Prabhupāda: So experience is received by higher knowledge. Experience means higher knowledge. Just like a child...
Professor Durckheim: Experience means...
Prabhupāda: Higher knowledge. Higher knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Now, what is our suffering?
Professor Durckheim: I am sure it can be reconciled, but I am interested to know how do you see this question.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That everyone can understand. It is very easy. Now, just like we have already heard from Bhagavad-gītā that I am the spirit, I am within this body. So my sufferings are on account of this body. This is a fact. Because I have entered into this body, material body, there are my sufferings. Therefore my business should be how to get out of this body. Is it clear or not?
Professor Durckheim: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this incarnation means I am spirit soul, I have entered this body. Now I can, next life I can enter into another body. It may be dog's body, it may be cat's body or it may be king's body. So the standard of suffering is there either in the king's body or in the dog's body. And the standard of sufferings is enunciated, birth, death, old age and disease. These are our sufferings. So in order to get out of these four kinds of sufferings—there are many kinds; these are the main kinds—we have to get out of this body. That is the problem.
Professor Durckheim: Through many lives...
Prabhupāda: Many life or this life. In this life you understand that "My sufferings are due to this body. Then how to get out of this body?" If you acquire this knowledge, you know the tricks, then you get immediately.
Prabhupāda: In Christian tradition there is everything nice, but nobody's following. That is the difficulty. (break) ... portion of the road is not paved like this. Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Both the man and animals will live prosperously when there is sufficient foodgrain. (break) ...at anna-sambhavaḥ. If there is sufficient rainfall, the production of foodgrains will be very easy. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And if you satisfy the Lord by performing yajña, then there will be sufficient rain. And yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. And our activities should be only to perform yajña, to satisfy the Lord.
Guest (1): But Sanskrit word for..., yajña?
Haṁsadūta: Yajña, sacrifice.
Guest (1): Yeah, yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Just like glorifying the Lord, that is also yajña. Saṅkīrtana-yajña. Yajña means to satisfy the Lord. Do it anyway and there will be no scarcity. Everything will be all right. Annād bhavanti bhū...
Prabhupāda: Everywhere possible.
Madhudviṣa: And in other Russian... But these countries are all under Communist rule. It is very difficult in those countries.
Prabhupāda: Not difficult. Nothing is difficult. For the time being it is difficult but in due course of time it will be very easy. Now who knew that in Europe and America or all over the world, Hare Kṛṣṇa will go on? Bon Mahārāja left the field; others left the field. You see? Other swamis came. They talked all nonsense, yoga, this and that, nose pressing, eyes pressing—all finished. Now Hare Kṛṣṇa is going on. Now people, the nose-presser and eyes-presser, they are no more important. Is it not? Eh? Now our men go and challenge these rascals. And in New York they did it, huh?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And they are afraid of our troops. (laughter) They are afraid.
Madhudviṣa: One of those nose-pressers, he once was speaking, and he said, "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they like me very much. They always come to my lectures and they sell all the books, all their books, and then they go away before I start to talk."
Prabhupāda: "You go on pressing your nose. We make our business and go away." (laughter)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that in the society women, working class, and the mercantile class, they are, according to Vedic scripture, they are less intelligent, women, working class and mercantile men. Just like mercant..., they are after money, that's all. And śūdra, they want, after job. And women means they are after fulfilling their material desires. They have no other idea, that there is Brahmān, one should know Brahmān... They do not care to know. Therefore they are called śūdras, stri, śūdra, vaiśya. Yes. Vaiśya. So Kṛṣṇa says,
- māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
- ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
- striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
- te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
- (BG 9.32)
So it is not blocked for anyone. Anyone can get Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anyone can go back to home, back to Godhead, provided you follow the regulative principle. Then it is possible for everyone. It doesn't matter whether he's woman, whether he's working class, whether he's a śūdra or a brāhmaṇa. It doesn't matter. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Even they can go. And what to speak of the brāhmaṇas?" Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ... (BG 9.33). If the brāhmaṇas, they cultivate spiritual knowledge, it becomes very easy for them. Even they can go, śūdras, stri, vaiśya. These are all the statement.
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He understands that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of the mind. Now he requests that you explain to the people how one can achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness living in one's own home with one's... In other words for those who are outside the temple, they have their jobs and they live in their houses, how can they achieve Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: It is very easy. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): How do we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That you are seeing. I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma... They all are chanting.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): What is the meaning of this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Hare means, "O the energy of God," and Kṛṣṇa, "O God, kindly accept me again. I am fallen in this material world." That's all.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She says that she sees it as a mantra, and from her point of view it seems like we're repeating this mantra over and over again, and it's something like hypnotism. For example, in some tribes there are different rituals. They are chanting different things, and she would like...
Prabhupāda: That is her opinion. She is not authority.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She would like an explanation.
Prabhupāda: Oh. The Canadian ambassador. He came to see me. He saw me in Delhi when our function was going on. He was speaking; he was so surprised. So this movement has got good potency, and every one of you join.
- bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
- janma sārthaka kari 'kara para-upakāra
- (CC Adi 9.41)
This is para-upakāra. The whole world is in darkness without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So enlighten them, para-upakāra. Human life is for para-upakāra; it is not animal life. To do good to others. Cats and dogs, they are selfish. But human life should be for para-upakāra. So this is the biggest para-upakāra movement. And it is very easy to take part in it. You don't require to be very expert. You... Everything is there. You simply carry the message like peon. Kṛṣṇa says this; kindly follow; that's all. We don't say that "I say this. I have manufactured this. I have become very big man, God." We don't say nonsense. It is all nonsense. Simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa; then you are perfect. In the Western countries they are little fond of yoga. So the yoga system is also spoken by Kṛṣṇa in the Sixth Chapter. But the conclusion is, when Arjuna refused, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me. This meditation, this praṇāyāma and dhyāna, dhāraṇā, yama, niyama, dhyāna, it is not possible for me. I am a politician. I have no time either"—he said frankly—then Kṛṣṇa satisfied him that "You are already the best of the yogis."
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Devotees: Jaya.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Just applicable to myself, it's very easy to think that "Now I am in a position of responsibility. I may be most advanced." But what your instruction is that I always think that this position of responsibility requires that I become pure, so I have to be very, very careful. I am not most advanced. I have to...
Prabhupāda: That purity process is chanting.
Atreya Ṛṣi: I have to chant very carefully...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Atreya Ṛṣi: ...and very seriously.
Prabhupāda: Offenseless.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Not that I'm already advanced.
Rūpānuga: It is actually a very easy process.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the easiest process. There is no secondary process. Chanting. And it is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the authority, param vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So many things will happen.
- ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
- śreyaḥ-kairava candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
- ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtasvādanaṁ
- (sarvātma-snapanaṁ) paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam
- (CC Antya 20.12)
This is His recommendation. We haven't got to invent something. It is there already. You do it.
Jayatīrtha: So the agenda for the GBC meeting to decide on... First of all, Jagadīśa has made one proposal for financing Gurukula, if it has to be discussed.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Financing?
Jayatīrtha: Gurukula is having some serious financial difficulties. So Jagadīśa has made a proposal, which we'll discuss.
Prabhupāda: So everyone's son is there, all devotees' son. So from every center some contribution should be given to the Gurukula.
Jayatīrtha: Jaya. That was my proposal. That becomes a kind of tax.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: The rascal, befooled by his false ego, he is thinking, "I am everything. I am independent." Those who are thinking like that, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā. The false ego is bewildered and thinking, "What I am thinking is all right." No, you cannot think in your own way. Must think as Kṛṣṇa says, then you are right. Otherwise, you are thinking under the spell of māyā, that's all. Tribhir guṇamāyāir bhavair mohita, nā 'bhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). These things are there. Read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, follow the rules and regulations, then your life will be successful. And so long you have got, this is also right, that is also right, then you will not do the right. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not (indistinct). What Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. That should be the (indistinct). Otherwise you will be misled. So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe, very small number, but ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra. If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling. So that is our propaganda. If one man can understand what is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, then my preaching is successful, that's all. We don't want many millions of stars with no light. What is the use of millions of stars with no light? That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, varam eka putra na chavur kasatan api (?). One son, if he is learned, that is sufficient. Na chavur kasatan api (?). What is the use of hundreds of sons, all fools and rascals? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasras. One moon is sufficient to illuminate. There is no need of millions of stars. Similarly, we are not after many millions of disciples. I want to see that one disciple has understood Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. That is success. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānāṁ (BG 7.3), kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. So, first of all, to become siddha is very difficult job. And then, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). There is still difficult job. So, Kṛṣṇa philosophy is little difficult to understand. If they are understanding so easily, that is not understanding. It is easy, it is easy, if you accept Kṛṣṇa's words, it is very easy. That is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakta, mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, always think of Me. So where is the difficulty? You have seen Kṛṣṇa's picture, Kṛṣṇa's Deity, and if you think Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty?
Prabhupāda: Then? Do you think the powerhouse is going on?
Paramahaṁsa: Well we could see him. We could go, we could drive there right now and see him.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can see. You can go to Kṛṣṇa and see Him. That requires qualification.
Paramahaṁsa: That's not as easy.
Prabhupāda: No, it is very easy. It is simply, as we are teaching our students, just become a devotee, offer namaskār, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, always think of Him, and you will go to Him. It is not at all difficult. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Bahavo, many, did come to Me. How? Jñāna-tapasā, by knowledge and tapasya, being purified, they come to Me. Kṛṣṇa says. Why you are disappointed? You can go. Kṛṣṇa is open. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Striya śūdra tathā vaiśya, even the women, less intelligent, the śūdra, vaiśya, they can come. Where is the difficulty? Even if you are born very lowest, you can go. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. Simply you become qualified. That's all. And what is the qualification? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), just always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your respects to Me, and man-manā, worship Me. Four things. That... We are opening this temple (in Melbourne) for this purpose, that you always think of Him, you worship Him, you offer obeisances to Him, and become His devotee. And then? Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68), without a doubt you will come to Him. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.
Paramahaṁsa: If the operator of the powerhouse, he is operating and running the powerhouse, but it's not really necessary that we go and see him. We can simply enjoy the facilities offered by the powerhouse.
Prabhupāda: Not very important.
Amogha: Yes. They think it's not practical action. They think practical action is politics or some physical thing like the hospital. Money.
Prabhupāda: It means they have no idea of the spiritual identity. Their idea is that matter is important. But they do not know that matter is not important, but the spirit is important. That is moving the matter. It is very easy to understrand. Because the spirit soul is within this body, it is moving. But they cannot understand-dull-headed. What is that force that is moving this body? That they do not consider to understand.
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda? When people in the street hear Kṛṣṇa's name, the chanting, or they get some literature, does that mean they will not take birth as an animal?
Prabhupāda: No. They'll get birth in a good family. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). If they simply appreciate "It is very nice," then in the next life, human life is guaranteed. In a very nice family. Simply if he appreciates, "Yes, it is very nice"—that's all. Then he'll get another chance.
Amogha: Many people think the pictures are very nice.
Justin Murphy: But we must all perform yajña?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have to perform yajña. And that yajña, at the present moment, is very easy, to... Saṅkīrtanaiḥ yajñaiḥ. It is recommended that we have to recognize the authority of the Lord, and in this age, simply by performing saṅkīrtana-yajña, He will be satisfied. Saṅkīrtana-yajña means to glorify the Lord in so many ways. We glorify the Lord His form, His activities, His name, His quality. So it is not difficult job. We can sit together, family-wise, community-wise, or in office, in factory. We can sit down together and glorify the Lord. Is it very difficult job?
Justin Murphy: You make it sound very, very simple of course.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then why don't you accept it?
Justin Murphy: Well, I for one might. But...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not talking about you.
Justin Murphy: No, no, sure, certainly, but imagine the man, as we have to consider, the men, the thousands of them on their tractors, at their bulldozers, hacking down natural forest...
Devotee: He says we have to consider the men who are working the machines to take down the forest for agriculture... Is that what you mean?
Justin Murphy: I suppose it's very easy to understand and to credit that so many people will be thinking maybe this way because that's part of the basis of being selfish, and, after all, a lot of people, particularly, I would imagine, a lot of Australians, are basically selfish. They are interested far more in what they can get and do for themselves not necessarily by working hard, by striving or by reading or by thinking or by studying. They, they... The old saying...
Prabhupāda: The human life is meant for acquiring knowledge, real knowledge.
Justin Murphy: But so many people don't see it that way.
Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.
Paramahaṁsa: We can teach people how to live with their problems and at the same time learn how to minimize them through technology.
Prabhupāda: No, because you have got so many facilities to teach people that "You become patient, you become criminal, and you live comfortably." That is very nice, "You become criminal, go to the jail and live very comfortably." "You become diseased, go to the hospital and live comfortably." That is very easy.
Paramahaṁsa: But see, they can't cause any trouble in the jail. That is the advantage. Therefore everyone is comfortable because they see that the murderers are locked up and they can't do any harm. Therefore everyone is feeling safe. And in a hospital people, similarly, they have some disease. They can't... Like in India, the beggars on the street, they should all be in hospitals, whereas in the foreign countries all those type of people are all in hospitals, taken care of.
Prabhupāda: Then why hippies are lying on the street?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, that is voluntary.
Prabhupāda: So, one side, you make arrangement for patient; another side, they voluntarily suffer. Then what you can...
Śrutakīrti: No, that is their happiness.
Paramahaṁsa: Oh, they are enjoying.
Śrutakīrti: It's not suffering to them. They are very happy.
Prabhupāda: You are thinking they are unhappy.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...if people do not like, that is another thing. What is the wrong if I say, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."? If you don't chant, that is your choice. There is no difficulty. If you agree that "Swamiji asking me. We'll chant," you can chant. But if you don't do it, that is your business. The task it not difficult. Task is very easy. Even a child can do it. But if you are stubborn, "No, no, I will not do it," then what can be done? (?) Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro... You know this song, huh? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says... You have got this cassette? Jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole.
Devotee (1): I may have it in my briefcase. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So He is canvassing, "Now get up. How you are remaining in ignorance still? You have got this human form of body; still, you remain as cats and dogs. Why is that? This is spell of māyā. You get up." "No, I am very much... I cannot break out of this. Too much I am afflicted." Then he says, "I have got medicine." Enechi auṣadhi. "I have got the medicine. You take it." Enechi auṣadhi māyā nāśibāro lāgi', hari-nāma mahā-mantra lao tumi māgi'. "You take it from Me, hari-nāma mahā-mantra." So this is our mission. We have got the medicine to awake the people from this ignorance. He doesn't know anything. He is busy only with his fifty years. Nowadays less still, we live, such rascaldom we are. "We have got the medicine. Now you take it." This is our canvassing, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. If you don't agree, that is your business. That is your misfortune. The disease is there, and the remedy is also there. So we offer you the remedy free of charges, and if you don't take it, then it should be understood that you are so misfortunate, unfortunate.
Devotee (1): Sādhana means accepting discipline.
Prabhupāda: Eh, yes. Do you think that solving the problem of birth, death and old age and disease is very easy task? (chuckles) You have to very, very strongly... Those who do not care, that is another thing. They are under these laws, going on. Life after life, they are changing body, again birth, again death, again in the womb of mother. They do not take it seriously, how risky life is that. They do not take it. "Oh, what is that?" Now, in Kali-yuga, the mother is killing the child. Even within the womb of mother is not safe. This is going on. So they do not take that how this way of life is risky and uncomfortable. They do not take it seriously. To enter again into the womb of mother, how difficult job and troublesome it is, they do not understand it. For want of education.
Hari-śauri: So those persons who do not take even their material predicament seriously, then it is the same when they approach, they see our devotees. They do not take us seriously.
Prabhupāda: No, they are given chance. Even they fall down, they guaranteed best life in the next birth, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), to take birth in devotee's or nice brāhmaṇa's house. So they get again chance. So our point should be why another chance? Finish this business in this life. That is determination. Why another chance? I may be misled again. That should be our determination. "Finish this business, this life. One life let me be strict in following the discipline and regulative principles." This is called tapasya, that "Although it is inconvenient, I must do it to solve my problems." That is determination, dṛḍha-vrata, firm determination.
Prabhupāda: Historical.
Madhudviṣa: Historical building. It is protected by the government.
Śrutakīrti: Yesterday you were telling Bhūrijana they should make the temple a tourist attraction. So with this method, it would be very easy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (coughs)
Śrutakīrti: Roll down the window.
Prabhupāda: ...the demonic, they construct very nice house. (break) ...this planet, there are seven other planets. There sunshine does not go. But they are very well situated.
Madhudviṣa: Well situated? Even though there's no sun?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but there are snakes which has got jewel on the head. That light keeps them illuminated.
Madhudviṣa: But does that light also keep them healthy?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Madhudviṣa: Like the sun gives us, keeps us healthy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. So His business was pāpī-tāpī? No, His business was with the most exalted personalities like... Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta. They were all very exalted personalities. But all of their mission was to deliver the pāpī-tāpīs. That we have described in our that small book, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya in Five Features. So pāpī-tāpī is everyone, in this age especially. But if we take shelter of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by His mercy we get everything. So now Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Nityānanda has come to Melbourne, very nicely looking. So keep yourself always engaged in the service of the Lord. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Śrī-vigrahārādhana, this arcana process, beginning from maṅgala-ārātrika up to the sāyam-ārātrika, everything should be done very nicely. And the temple should be made very clean. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. To dress the Deity is as much important as to cleanse the temple also, not that temple will remain dirty, simply you are dressing the Deity.
No. Everything within the temple should be kept very, very neat and clean. And the more you keep the temple neat and clean, you will be neat and clean within your heart. And then your understanding will be very easy. We cannot understand Kṛṣṇa because our heart is piled up with many garbages. That we have to cleanse. Then it will be easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. So I am very much pleased that we have secured this nice building. Keep it very neat and clean and go on chanting. You have got nice place for chanting and dancing. And utilize the open land for growing flower. In this way make this center unique. And it is a recognized building. If people understand that this building is now a temple and very nicely kept, people will come and see. So keep yourself always in touch with the principles and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and those who are... All of you, I think, you are educated. Read books. Try to understand the philosophy. Then your life is successful. Thank you very much for your coming.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is helping us. Take advantage of it. (break) Vyāsadeva compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam for this purpose. Anartha upasamam sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaja. These lokasya ajānataḥ, people are suffering on account of ignorance, so to give them proper knowledge, he made this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (break) Who can become more learned than Vyāsadeva? Therefore he is known as vidvān, the most, supreme learned. He made this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to help these rascals who are spoiling their life only in sense gratification. (break) Life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). They do not know that our existentional condition is impure. The question does not arise that "I do not wish to die. Why there is death?" They are so dull-headed, this question does not... They are trying to solve so many question, but this question does not arise in their mind, that "I don't wish to die. Why death is forced upon me?" Inquire. Come on, all philosophers and scientists, come and make an inquiry commission, that "I don't want to die. The death is forced upon me. I don't want to become old man, and it is forced upon me. What is the reason?" Therefore they are rascals. The prime problem, they have set aside. Big, big scientists... That Professor Einstein and other, other, they are big, big scientists. They do not consider this question, that "I am a big scientist. So I am also going to die. So why it is?" That question, they have set aside. And they manufacture atom bomb to make dead very easy, not to stop death, but death-making very easily available. This is scientific. Hmm? Is that scientific?
Prabhupāda: But we don't follow that process. We follow one standard knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is our distinction between the ordinary scholars and our... And we are on the safe side because we don't manufacture, speculate. That is troublesome. If I have to defeat you, then I will have to speak so many things. I will have to find out the device how can I defeat you. But we have got one standard knowledge. I may be fool, rascal, but we repeat Kṛṣṇa. So our method is very easy. We are challenging everyone. Just like there are many scientific disciples. So I am not a science man. I have never studied science. But scientists, they are becoming my disciple. From material point of view, I have no education in science, but why the scientist is becoming my disciple? Is he becoming fool? After taking his doctorate title, he is becoming fool so that he is accepting me as spiritual master? Therefore the Vedic injunction is correct when it says, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. "If you know Kṛṣṇa perfectly well, then you know everything well." That is the Vedic injunction. So unless you know Kṛṣṇa well, your knowledge is imperfect. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So there are different departmental knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. All departmental knowledge, when they come to the understanding of Kṛṣṇa, then it is perfect. So long he does not come to Kṛṣṇa, he is imperfect. That is confirmed in another place:
Prabhupāda: Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing..." Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency.
Dr. John Mize: The origin of that tendency is...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. John Mize: From where does that tendency come?
Prabhupāda: Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). "Now you do whatever you like."
Jayatīrtha: Because Kṛṣṇa is independent, therefore the part and parcels...
Prabhupāda: It is very cheating. Any powdered spice is not good.
Harikeśa: Asafoetida also.
Prabhupāda: Everything. As soon as it is powder, they will mix with all rubbish things. And it is very easy to cheat you. You are susceptible for being cheated. So they take advantage and cheat you. So best thing is to import spices from India whole and either get it powdered or during time of cooking you make them paste. That is first class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Crushing.
Prabhupāda: You just put the spices water, soaked in water for some time, and then in mortar and pestle you...
Dhanañjaya: Smash it.
Prabhupāda: That is very nice. And immediately you fresh prepare and put into the vegetable. It will be tasteful, and it will be beneficial. All spices are beneficial.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And much cheaper.
Prabhupāda: Cheaper, of course, there is no question to you what is cheaper. For you everything is "damn cheap."
Harikeśa: The Rādhā-Dāmodara party has very good prasādam program. This halavā they make every morning—everyone is fully satisfied.
Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.
Jagadīśa: Even in the culture of Europe they had kings who had a certain territory and then they would appoint men called vassals to take care of different sections and then the serfs would work on the land.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is system, whole world. They were called... In India they were called zamindars, Mohammedans, and the Hindu zamindars, small kings. The zamindars are called king also. Anyone who owns land, he is called king.
Devotee (1): Just like Nanda Mahārāja, he also had land. Nanda Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking, unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel... Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ (BG 15.7). Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām: "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders. How the living entity is equal with God?
Brahmānanda: Return?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: Of course, they may say that "Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man like me and therefore He is asking..."
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man, and He is lifting the hill.
Brahmānanda: Well, that's just a story in a book.
Prabhupāda: Their Indian culture is that some of them speak Hindi, that's all. (laughter) This is their Ind...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...last night that they're starting a foundation, Mahatma Gandhi Foundation, here, to teach Indian culture, and he said, "Not just the Bhagavad-gītā, but Indian culture." You mentioned that we should take Indian culture directly from Bhagavad-gītā, not from here, not little from here, and little from there. (break) You give the example, Prabhupāda, that to fight with a declared enemy is very easy, but to fight with someone who is playing as a friend, although he is your enemy, is more difficult.
Prabhupāda: He is more dangerous than Buddha. What is that big building?
Cyavana: They are building now a prison on the point there, a new prison. I tried to walk there one morning, and they stopped me because they are afraid someone may go in there and make some tunnel or some place where they can escape before they finish it.
Brahmānanda: It looks like a hotel.
Cyavana: Yes. It will be very luxurious.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)
Devotee 2: ...Vyāsadeva and Nara-Nārāyaṇa, they are still in the Himalayas meditating, why don't they come and join our parties and help this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by their...?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But how can we prove Kṛṣṇa scientifically?
Prabhupāda: First of all let them prove their theory. Then we shall prove ours. We are proving. We have got our own way. But why they are speaking all this nonsense? First of all let him prove that he is genuine. Then our turn will be next. Ours is very easy. Kṛṣṇa said to sun-god, and sun-god said to his son, his son, his son. It is coming like that. Where is the difficulty? Again Kṛṣṇa says, "Now it is mismanaged. It is lost, so I am saying again to you Arjuna." So what Arjuna has understood, we are understanding the same way. How Arjuna understood it, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is the… We have no difficulty. But you jump over: "There is link," that "Once only from monkey came." What is this nonsense? We have to believe this? Has it any sense? And because Mr. Darwin is speaking we have to accept it? We cannot…
Harikeśa: Well, certain changes take place. Just like when it is very hot, if you are in a hot climate all the time your blood thins.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. No, no. This is not…
Harikeśa: Well, if you take that further, all of these changes that mount up to some big physical change.
Prabhupāda: No change is taken. The nature is working symmetrically always. The sun is rising in the morning. That is going on for million, million, million, millions of years.
Harikeśa: Gradually the change has taken place in a very scientific way, step by step.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Well, then kick on their face, on their nose, rascal. We are crazy or you are crazy?
Harikeśa: But who wants to make eggs?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?
Harikeśa: Plastic.
Prabhupāda: Plastic. It can be done. Do it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Make a chicken.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Make a chicken or so many birds. If not chicken, make a sparrow. Do something. Do something. Why you should be misled by them, these rascals? Challenge him. Challenge them publicly that “These rascals are misleading. Don’t accept them. They’re simply misleading.”
Harikeśa: Well, they’re the best we have. They’re the best we have. We have nobody. Who else is going to take care of us?
Prabhupāda: No, at least… We … just like we challenge, they cannot give answer. This should be proved. Then they will be proved that they are rascals.
Harikeśa: The whole scientific craze seems to be settling down anyway. It seems to be dying down.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked you to ask them, "Why Sunday first and Monday next?"
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's very conceivable that they could have tricked everyone. They simply have a video. They go up in a space ship around. They simply show a film from the space ship back to the earth, how they were practicing in the Arizona desert and they collected some rocks and took it with them. It's very easy.
Harikeśa: Sanka dāsa, you know, in Bombay? He was in the CIA. And they..., when he was in Vietnam, they knocked him out one day and they brought him to a dentist and they took out three of his teeth, and they put in these little transistors. And these little transistors were connected to his brain. And they would talk to him and make him do things by speaking into these transistors into his brain. And if he ever said anything wrong..., like he was not supposed to reveal secrets. And if he ever revealed a secret, they would try to kill him by making a signal go to his brain, and they can explode his brain. So conceivably they can trick the astronauts completely like that by putting things and making them think like they went to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Śaṅkara dāsa?
Harikeśa: Yes. He was saying... And when he got out of the Army he had so much pain in his teeth he went to a dentist, and he took out all of his teeth. That's why he has no teeth, because all of his teeth had these little things inside them. And one...
Prabhupāda: He is in Bombay now?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. You pick up... You take the whole mass of people as śūdra. Then...
Harikeśa: Pick out.
Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now the incentive in modern society to become educated or to become engineer is money. What is the incentive in Vedic culture?
Prabhupāda: There is no need of money. The brāhmaṇa teaches everything free of charge. There is no question of money. Anyone can take education as a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. There is no... Vaiśya doesn't require any education. Kṣatriyas require little. Brāhmaṇa require. But that is free. Just find out a brāhmaṇa guru and he will give you free education. That's all. This is society. Now, as soon as... At the present moment, as soon as one wants to be educated, he requires money. But in the Vedic society there is no question of money. Education free.
Harikeśa: So the incentive is the happiness in society?
Prabhupāda: He said, the scientist. Then what your scientific knowledge will help?
Brahmānanda: Well, if they drop some bombs they will reduce the population. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is very easy. The bomb is also ready. Everyone has got now nuclear weapon, bomb. So the scientists gave the solution. So what is the use of scientific knowledge? This is going to happen.
Brahmānanda: Actually there was one proposal. It was written in the seventeenth century in England by one famous writer, that "Because the population is increasing so much, therefore if we become cannibals, then the population will be maintained."
Yaśomatīnandana: So who will eat who?
Brahmānanda: Well, that he didn't say.
Prabhupāda: These are scientists, big men.
Girirāja: So the reporter asked him what were his personal plans for the future. So he said he likes one girl, so he wants to get married, and that's all.
Brahmānanda: Increase the population. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...is madri? Ba, pha.
Brahmānanda: In Spanish, father is "padre."
Dr. Patel: Latin and Sanskrit are more or less common. They have got those sapta-vibhaktīs in Latin also.
Prabhupāda: And this "Christ" has come from Kristo, Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
Dr. Patel: The cow from... Gao from cow, and cow from gao. No? It is absolutely not..., so very easy.
Prabhupāda: We are Kṛṣṇian, and they are Christian. There is similarity.
Dr. Patel: Nomenclature. Christ was really a bhāgavata, I mean, in a true sense.
Prabhupāda: Anyone who accepts God, he is bhāgavata.
Dr. Patel: Christ, sir, really taught absolutely bhāgavata-dharma. The way... All his sayings, the New Testament and his Sermon on Mount, all is absolutely Bhāgavata. I have studied it very, in great detail and compared the two myself. So Christ was the greatest Hindu, to tell the truth. But as those people in the Middle East were heathens and absolutely junglis, they crucified him. Had he been here he would have been a big saint and avatāra.
Prabhupāda: Recent history is that he did not die. He came to Kashmir.
Dr. Patel: Came to Kashmir. There is a tomb in Kashmir. I read some literature about it. His resurrection... They say that they smuggled him out of that cave. It is possible. When he was on the cross, he...
Prabhupāda: No, even by yoga system...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: You are parallel, more or less. Your, I read in English, but that was in Sanskrit, the Sanskrit explained to English. Wonderful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rāmānujācārya has given Vedic quotation for each and every verse.
Dr. Patel: His Sanskrit is very easy also, Rāmānujācārya's.
Prabhupāda: Amongst the Vaiṣṇavas, he was the greatest ācārya, Rāmānujācārya. And to kill the Māyāvādīs, he was the ablest person, Rāmānujācārya. Still in South India, the Māyāvādīs and the Rāmānujas, they have talks, and the Māyāvādīs are defeated always.
Dr. Patel: These ācāryas, they are all Rāmānujācārya followers that Tithi Kṛṣṇam Ācāri(?) and Rajgopal Ācārya, and they are all these Vaiṣṇavas of Rāmānujācārya.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya means Vaiṣṇava. Ayar. Ayar. And avaiṣṇava, Nayar, yes.
Dr. Patel: Nayars are non-Aryans. Then the... All Nayars are black, charcoal black, because they are not Aryans. Aryans have the white, light skin.
Prabhupāda: Even in Madras there are many brāhmaṇas, black.
Dr. Patel: Brāhmaṇas, they are Ayars. They are quite... Even though they have settled in Madras for generations together, they are still having the color of... (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No, no. Śāstra says. You conjecture, but we don't conjecture. We simply repeat what is said in the śāstra. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. "Your eyes should be the śāstra, not conjecture." Śāstra says, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. He has become a dog on account of his infection with certain type of material qualities. That is our eyes. We don't conjecture anything. It is naturally may be inquired that "Why one living entity has got this body of a dog and why one living entity has got the body of King Indra?" The śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Śāstra says, Kṛṣṇa says. So it is, reason is, that he has infected the certain type of material modes of nature; therefore he has got. It is very easy. As you, medical man, you know how the disease has come, you have infected the disease. It is that.
Dr. Patel: Kāraṇaṁ ganga.
Prabhupāda: Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam, yes. I am layman. I cannot say why I have got this fever. You can... By analysis, you can say. So therefore śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Śāstra says, "You analyze his blood, and if these symptoms are there, therefore this disease is there." That is śāstra, not conjecture. You don't diagnose by simply imagining. No. That is not scientific treatment. You analyze blood, stool and this, and find out what is the germ. Then you analyze. And in the śāstra the symptoms are there, analytical, that "This kind of disease, the symptoms will be this, this, this, this." That is śāstra, not conjecture. Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "This rascal has infected this body on account of his particular connection with the modes of material nature." In the smṛti-śāstra it is stated how one gets tuberculosis, how one gets this disease, that disease, different pāpa. (break)
Prabhupāda: So, you can try one or two. If you find that they're alright...
Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes. Doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) We can purchase some of those fields but where is the man? We can grow our own food. (slight pause) They have now learned from the Western countries to run! (jogger goes past) (laughs) And without caring for the field. Hm? Field working is very troublesome and this running is very easy.
Hari-śauri: Running out of breath. (pause) Meets some one on the road.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Man: (mumbling) ...Only Māyāpur, eh, Caitanya Chandrodaya Mandir temple is ahh, undoubtedly, eh, ahh Hari.. ahh, eheḥ, ahh, (mumbles something more)
Prabhupāda: Scientists say, is there any living entity in the sun globe?
Akṣayānanda Swami: No. They don't, they say there's nothing.
Prabhupāda: Simply everything here?
Akṣayānanda Swami: Yes. That's what they say.
Prabhupāda: And especially in Europe and America! (everyone laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa! They say there is nothing. They have gone there? They have seen?
Prabhupāda: ...recommended to study Bhāgavata from bhāgavata, not by grammar.
Dr. Patel: No, no. But unless, I mean, I like Sanskrit myself, so I try to learn Sanskrit; I can read other, more Sanskrit books. So it is a sort of a study with me, as well as a knowledge of Bhāgavata. So I am trying to be more critical about it. But that way I have read Bhāgavata in Gujarati, even in Hindi (indistinct) Gorhakpur.
Prabhupāda: ...Viṣṇu Purāṇa.
Dr. Patel: Viṣṇu Purāṇa is (indistinct) from Mahābhārata. It is very easy. Extremely easy.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! (to passerby)
Dr. Patel: Some of the, some people try to poke at us also.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: They are fools.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Dr. Patel: Well, because we, we chant God's name, out of fun they also say. But we...
Prabhupāda: That is also good.
Dr. Patel: That we should not take it like that.
Prabhupāda: If one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa jokingly, that is also good.
Dr. Patel: That's it. Yesterday morning you came?
Prabhupāda: Some time back when I was a young boy, I went to see a football match in Calcutta. So after finishing, I came walking through the Bentink Street. So I saw one time in the beginning, and I came to my house, some watch, and clock is giving the same time. (pause) We are giving very simple formula: just become Kṛṣṇa conscious and all problems will be solved. All problems.
Dr. Patel: Very easy formula for all the mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Like us. (laughs raucously)
Prabhupāda: The Doctor is...
Dr. Patel: Before you came here... You can say anything...
Prabhupāda: This is intelligence. This is not mūḍha; this is intelligence. Guru mora mūrkha dekhi' koril śāsana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one."
Dr. Patel: So you see me also that way...
Prabhupāda: No. That means He is intelligent. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool, that's a fact, but He presented Himself like that. He is most learned, but He presented before guru, "I am useless, worthless." Tṛṇād api sunīcena...
Dr. Patel: I myself, sir, we are all (indistinct) not like you, we are worthless, we people. Unless you understand your worth... We are really worthless.
| Page Title: | Very easy (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 22 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=86, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 86 |