Prabhupāda: They have already started one branch in London, one in Hamburg. And we have sent our students in Honolulu. They have started a branch there. So our program is to start several..., as many branches as possible to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And it is very easy. We simply invite persons to come and chant with us. It doesn't matter what he is, what is his language, what is his religion. We don't take into account all these things. And this Hare Kṛṣṇa is so easy to utter, that any man can utter. That we have experienced. Any part of the world, we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they can very easily imitate and chant. Even child, they also. So by chanting, he gradually becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. His heart becomes cleansed and he can understand what is science of Kṛṣṇa, what is science of God. Then he automatically offers himself for initiation. Then we initiate him and guide him in different ways. But our students are strictly forbidden to have illicit sex life or meat-eating or intoxication or gambling. These four things are strictly forbidden for our students. And they take it seriously. We get our... In your country boys and girls, they live as friend. I don't allow that. If there is such friendship, I immediately ask them, if they become my student, I immediately ask them to be married. And this experiment has proved very successful. I got these young boys and girls married, and they are very happily living, and husband and wife, they are preaching. All my students in London—there are six boys and girls—they were married by me, and they are doing very nicely. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very nice in everywhere, especially in this country. That is my opinion. And people will be benefited, especially the younger section who were feeling frustration in every respect, and they are now happy. It is practical. Just ask any one of my students how they are happy. You have seen in our temple how happily they are living and dancing from their face. Face is the index of mind. You will understand from their face how happy they are feeling. They are not smoking. They are not taking marijuana or are taking... No. This nonsense we don't allow. Simple food and chanting. That makes them happy. Simple thing.
Very easily (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa attracts everyone. Just like magnetic stone attracts iron. But the iron is covered with too much muddy things—the magnetic force does not work. This younger generation, they are not too much dirty; therefore they are very easily attracted. You see? It is like a magnetic force. The same example, that magnetic force attracts iron. That is natural. But if the iron is too much rusty and covered with muddy things, then it does not act. So older generation means they are convinced in some way. They cannot accept any new thing. You see? They are in the last stage of life. Whatever they have understood, they cannot forget. But younger generation, they have got capacity to take new things. Just like nobody goes... No old man goes to school because they are unable to receive education. But younger generation, they go. So there is a age to receive. So this age is recipient. Therefore naturally—it is nice thing—they are receiving.
Interviewer: You spoke of initiation. What is that initiation?
Prabhupāda: In India, due to her long subjugation by the foreigners, practically the so-called educated persons, they have lost their original culture. Rather, those who are not so-called educated, following the traditional rules and regulations, they are more Kṛṣṇa conscious. And the educated circle, they are thinking that this religious temperament is the cause of India's economic fall-down. But actually, that is not the fact. So not only India, in other countries also they are trying to imitate the economic situation or economic development of other countries, especially of America, but they do not find that in America, although the boys and girls, the younger generation, they are born of rich family, rich nation, they are still confused, and they are also hankering after something better. So the policy followed by India now, that is, to imitate the Western way of life, is not very happy mood. This means they have lost their original culture. And so far Western countries are concerned, I think they have sufficient arrangement for material comforts. Now they can very easily take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they have no disturbance for material hankering. And I think it is the time for them to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make them perfectly well.
Interviewer: Is there conflict with other Eastern religions, and if so, how far is this spread?
Prabhupāda: We have many books already published. One, first, is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is published by Macmillan and Company. You can have any number of these books from our temple. And the next book is Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is also available from our temple. And the next book, in three parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if somebody... These are the, I mean to say, covering of the books. So if somebody carefully reads these books, Kṛṣṇa consciousness science will be understood very easily by him. Besides these books, we have got our monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. So if the students... It is not very costly. The monthly magazine is only 35 cents per copy and the subscription four dollars yearly. And this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, it is only $2.95. Of course, this Teachings of Lord Caitanya, it is hardbound, it is $5.95. So they will be greatly profited.
Interviewer: (inaudible)
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Interviewer: What do you offer to Kṛṣṇa? That is, do you offer money in the sense of an offering in a Christian church or do you burn anything, for example, incense or could you explain this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The flowers, incense, and fruits, the same thing. I have already explained that whatever He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says that "Anyone offering Me these things in devotion..." So we follow the same principle. So it is very nice thing. If the students follow, they can follow it individually. Even in his own apartment he can keep a picture of Kṛṣṇa and offer a lamp, a candle, and one, I mean to say, incense. He will feel tremendously spiritually advanced. And if he reads these books, his life will be changed completely. That is a fact. (break) And two boys, Kṛṣṇānanda and one German boy, is going there very soon. So, of course, we do not expect to sell English books in Germany very much, but maybe... (end)
Prabhupāda: I don't say that "You Christian, you become Hindu or you come to me." I simply say "You obey these commandments." That is my order. I make you better Christian. That is my mission. I don't say that "God is not there, God is here," but I simply say that "You obey God." That is my mission. I don't say that you have to come to this platform and accept Kṛṣṇa as God and no other. No. I don't say. I say, "Please obey God. Please try to love God." That is my mission. And I give the way how to love God very easily. How to love, provided you agree.
Journalist: Well, see, again we get back to this...
Prabhupāda: So practically you follow that I have no difference.
Journalist: Yes, I understand. I appreciate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You believe in God, I believe in God. I simply say "You try to love God."
Journalist: Well, I... I'm still... It's not that I'm confused. I understand what you're saying...
Prabhupāda: You are confused still?
Journalist: No. I understand what you are saying. What confuses me or makes it... When I say, me, and so many of our readers. ...is why is it...? Let me ask the question again. Let me ask it maybe to become clear in my mind. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but let me say it this way. Are you saying that if your mission and the mission of the Jewish, Christian, western ethic is the same, again let me ask the same question, why is it that the younger people or people in general, are disenchanted, are trying to go towards the eastern-oriented religion if their aim or premise is the same as the western. Why are they going toward the eastern if the premise is the same?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In different branches. I have got about thirteen branches. Some of the disciples are working in London. Yes, they are doing very nice. They are all married couples. I got them married. Yes. I got them married. They're young boys, all within thirty. My oldest disciple he is 28. Otherwise 25, 24. At most 30. And similarly, girls, you have seen this girl. You see. So I get them, make them happy in married life. Their mentality is... They are not after so-called puffed-up life. They can live very simply with the least demand of bodily necessities, but thinking very high of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I am very hopeful that even I die... Because I am old man, 73 years old. I may die at any moment. But I am now assured my movement will go on. These boys will carry it. That, my mission, is in that way successful. I came here with this idea, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be started from America. Because anything accepted by America, people follow because America is considered to be the... Actually America is not a poverty-stricken country. So they can very easily understand, they can take it. And there are many confused youths. So with all these considerations, I came here, and I think I'm successful, yes.
Journalist: Doesn't seem like very many converts in that amount of time. How many followers other... (sneezes) Pardon me please.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Journalist: How many followers are there then, within...? Just a hundred?
Prabhupāda: Little more than hundred.
Hayagrīva: These are initiates who are strictly following. Of course, there are more and more people come to the temples. More people join us.
Journalist: How many temples are there?
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Never, never, never. That is his insanity, another. As soon as he thinks that "I am independent," that is another insanity. He is under control. Just like the same man. He is thinking, "I don't care for state laws." He is insane. He will be forced to accept state laws in the prison house by the police. But he thinks, "Oh, I am free man." Still... He is slapped by the police. He says, "Oh, I am independent. Go on slapping." This is insanity. Is it not insanity? The police slaps him, and he says, "I am independent." Do you think independence? So that sort of independence we are having. We are kicked by māyā always, and we are thinking, "independent." This is insanity. He does not think, "Why I am independent? I am servant of my senses. I cannot remain, enjoying senses, for an hour, and I am thinking I am independent." That means insane. He cannot think properly. Where is his independence? Cannot be independent. He is born dependent because part and parcel of God. His constitutional position is dependent. Just like child. A child declares independence. What is the meaning of that independence? Danger. That's all. Simply inviting dangers. A child wants: "Oh, I don't care for my parents. I shall cross the road. I shall go everywhere." So if he is allowed to do that, that means he is simply inviting dangers. And if he remains under the protection of the parents, he is always safe. So this living entity's declaring independence means he is insane, different kinds of insanity. He cannot be independent. Let him think very deeply that it cannot be independent. He is thinking independent of God, but he is dependent on his sense pleasure. That's all. And some intoxication, a voluntarily accept dependence of something māyā. That's all. Who is independent. Is there anyone independent? Nobody is independent. To think of independence is māyā. Best thing is that "I am dependent, and let me remain dependent in properly. Then I am protected." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So your question is answered? Material consciousness means thinking falsely independent. That is material consciousness. Falsely. He is not independent, but he is thinking falsely, "I am independent." This is māyā. Just like in dream he is falsely thinking there is a tiger. There is no tiger, but he is actuated by this false impression, "Oh, tiger is eating me. It has attacked me. Save me." So this material existence means because he is insane, he is thinking there are so many problems, "The tiger is there. He is attacking me. This, that, so many enemies, friends...," creating so many things. But they are all false. But he is attacked by that false hallucination. That's all. This is māyā. Everyone is thinking, "Oh, there are so many problems I have to solve. I have to make this, that, this, so many." But he has no problem. He has no problem. His only problem is how to accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He says, "Yes, you accept Me. Simply chant Kṛṣṇa. I am yours. That's all." But my, I am so misfortunate that I cannot chant even. All problems solved simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that "O Kṛṣṇa, You are so kind that You have come to Me in the sound vibration, word, 'Kṛṣṇa.' I can very easily chant, and You remain with Me. But I am so misfortunate that I have no attraction even for this." You say people, "You chant Kṛṣṇa; you get everything." They will not believe it. If you say, "You press your nose. You pay me fifty dollars.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult in this age. Then you have to restrain yourself in so many things. Complete free from sex life. You have to eat under certain direction, you have to... So many things there are. These rules are not followed. Simply they have got some bodily gymnastic sitting posture. They are thinking, "I am practicing." No. That is one of the items. So all the items cannot be observed in this age. Therefore it is wasting. (Break) "...yogis, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all." This is the goal of yoga practice. So that is possible very easily by this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by any other process. And the ultimate goal is here. One should be always abiding with God, worshiping Him, transcendental loving service, and intimately united with Him, intimately. This intimate unity means that five kinds of relationship. That is the perfection of yoga. When Kṛṣṇa has advised yoga practice, sāṅkhya-yoga... You have Bhagavad-gītā? There is sāṅkhya-yoga. You'll find in the forty-seventh verse. This is the version.
Devotee: There's no value in keeping the body fit through exercise?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can become very healthy. But does it mean that health is the perfection of life? Do you mean to say healthy life will not die, will not change his body? So health is required, but health is not the ultimate goal of life. Ultimate goal of life is here.
Guest (3): Buddha taught very similar things to what the Gītā taught also, didn't he? Are there agreeances there, agreement in certain places what Buddha taught and what the Gītā teaches?
Prabhupāda: Do you follow this Buddha?
Prabhupāda: Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41).
Indian Lady: He's so good, because he was so good last time.
Prabhupāda: Children very easily adopt it. So this is the perfect yoga system. No artificial education. Spontaneous response, dancing, Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is the easiest method. So the greatest contribution to the human society. Do it.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, so tomorrow we'll be doing it. So now, the next question I had in my mind is we'll be doing kīrtana, then language, speech. Then end with kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: That is also kīrtana. Kīrtana means kīrtayati. Glorifying. That is kīrtana. So either you sing musically or you speak devotionally, both of them are kīrtana. Just like Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he continually spoke to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. That is also state, śrī viṣṇu... śravaṇe parīkṣit, abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyasaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Sukadeva Gosvāmī, he became liberated simply by kīrtane. But what is that kīrtana? He never played musical way. He simply explained Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So this is also kīrtana. This is called saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayati. That is saṅkīrtana.
Allen Ginsberg: The chanting is saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: Chanting, yes. Saṅkīrtana.
Allen Ginsberg: Well, if we have two and one half hours...
Hayagrīva: We have as long as we...
Śyāmasundara: Lines of disciplic succession. Yes, it's hereditary. Swamiji's spiritual master...
Prabhupāda: Just like channel you'll understand very easily. You send some money order to your friend. So from which channel he'll receive? He'll receive through the post office, not through any other channel. So if the postal peon delivers it, you are confident, "Yes, the money has come." So why you give the importance to the postal peon? Because he's representative of the post office. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original authority. So the Kṛṣṇa's representative is the authority. And who is Kṛṣṇa's representative? Who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore the devotee of Kṛṣṇa is authority, at least of Bhagavad-gītā. So you have to receive through the devotee of Kṛṣṇa about Bhagavad-gītā. One who does not know anything about Kṛṣṇa, how he can preach Bhagavad-gītā? This is common sense.
Jill: Will you excuse me? I must put my baby to bed. Good night.
Prabhupāda: (Chuckles) Take some prasādam.
Jill: Oh, thank you.
John Lennon: Well, who says who's in the line of descent? You know, I mean, it's just like royalty. Who's who? (All talk at once)
Yoko Ono: That's what I was talking about.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Why should you have illicit sex life? Everyone's need is sex life. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. These are the bodily needs. So śāstra has sanctioned, "All right. You can live peacefully by married life and have sex life for children, good children." That is allowed. But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature. Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life. If you don't take, if you cannot take the responsibility, then remain as a brahmacārī. Why should you marry? Yes. If you practice brahmācārya, then you become free, seventy-five percent freedom immediately. But you do not want to undergo the austerities of a brahmacārī, and still, you want to remain as an unmarried man. Everywhere in the world it is going on. This is increasing. That is stated here, sadācāra. Naṣṭa-sadācāro dāsyāḥ saṁsarga-dūṣitaḥ. The illicit connection with man and woman will certainly make him abominable, fallen down to this abominable life. I... When I was... In my younger days, when I was in business, so I was to take agency one of big company, Smith's Transit Company. So they had to... I had to give some guarantee of my honesty. So in that program the question was whether married or unmarried. Because unmarried man mostly become dishonest. So that inquiry was there, "Whether he is married?" Married man cannot be dishonest because he has got responsibility. If he is arrested he will be insulted in his family. His family members will be in difficulty. Therefore he does not commit dishonesty very easily unless it is absolutely... But that should not be done. But unmarried man, because he has got no responsibility, he commits all kinds of sinful activity. That's a fact. Therefore in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we do not allow such illicit sex life, no. You must get yourself married. And practically, we are seeing, that is very effective and that is going on nicely. All right. (Hindi)
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He has got. There you will see how it is scholarly written.
Mohsin Hassan: Oh, yes. Wonderful.
Prabhupāda: So we are publishing all our books in a scholarly way so that professors, teachers, philosophers, they, they can read it. And it is very easily done. Word-to-word, Sanskrit word, English, and diacritic marks. So we are working very hard. So if it is introduced among the scholarly sections, professors, teachers, it will be very beneficial to the human society.
Mohsin Hassan: Do you do your printing in Japan and America?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I am... Whenever I travel, I travel all over, around the world.
Mohsin Hassan: I want to ask... Just a few more minutes. You went to Russia. What's your impression?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Russia is the same people. They are anxious to receive this movement. Very much anxious.
Mohsin Hassan: And are you intent to (indistinct) over there?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mohsin Hassan: I see.
Śyāmasundara: Kenny, Kenny Records. Well, there are several record agents. They might know...
Mr. Arnold: The whole building is taken up, and it all comes under the roof of James something or other, or agencies.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Mr. Arnold: Now in New Oxford Street, you can see it very easily. There's a Midland Bank, takes up the ground floor.
Śyāmasundara: It's right over here, isn't it?
Mr. Arnold: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So, so long I am here, let us try some tangible, not simply proposal.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Now we've seen how nice places we can get, so we have to work on these other angles: the Indian community and George.
Mr. Arnold: The bank
Śyāmasundara: And the bank. There's... What about Mr. Gopal? Did you see him? He's very wealthy.
Dhanañjaya: Yes, but he helps by donating material things. Not material things, but he likes to give things rather than...
Śyāmasundara: No, he's never been tactfully approached for anything else. He used to like us. He'd come around all the time. He lost his son, so he adopted us, like that. He used to give us presents, money.
Dhanañjaya: The most he's given is carpets.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dhanañjaya: Carpets. He was giving carpets. The purple carpet in the temple.
Śyāmasundara: The carpet in the temple cost how many hundreds of pounds?
Dhanañjaya: Three hundred pounds. And the material for the Rathayātrā cart. All the material.
Prabhupāda: That guru cannot be. That guru's designation is there in the Vedas, that tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). Anyone who is inquisitive for understanding... Suppose if you are inquisitive to understand really what is Lalaji, then you must approach to a person who knows Lalaji. Then you will understand Lalaji. And if you approach somebody who does not know Lalaji, then he may give you misinformation. So guru is that who knows Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you will not be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa also very easily you can find out. Take what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa teaches Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna directly. Now if you believe Arjuna, then you understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa taught Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, and why Arjuna was taught, that is also said by Kṛṣṇa, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si: (BG 4.3) "Because you are My devotee." Kṛṣṇa did not go to teach Bhagavad-gītā to a Vedantist. He went to teach to Arjuna. He was a family man, he was a soldier, but why he was selected? He, Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. So if you approach a Kṛṣṇa bhakta like Arjuna, then you will understand Kṛṣṇa; otherwise you will not. They are understanding Kṛṣṇa through me, not before me. But if they or some of them, "something," some of them "something," they may be very big scholar, but they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: So first there should be direct...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: ...apprehension by...
Prabhupāda: Yes. One must be brahma-niṣṭham, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Abhigacchet means must. You must find out a guru who knows Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there is no possibility of knowing Kṛṣṇa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He said... That is the Bible, that he has taken all the sinful reactions of the people and he sacrificed his life. But these Christian people, they have made it a law that "Christ will suffer and we shall do all nonsense." Such great fools they are. They are... "Let Jesus Christ make contract for taking all one sinful reaction, and we will go on with all nonsense." That is their religion. This... They are not in sense that "Christ is so magnanimous that he took all our sins and he has suffered... We stop all these sins!" They have not come to that sense. They have taking it very easily: "Let Lord Jesus Christ suffer, and we do all nonsense." Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have been ashamed that "Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us. Instead of... We are continuing the sinful activities still. He asked everyone, 'Thou shall not kill,' and we are indulging in killing." And "Lord Jesus Christ will excuse us, take all the sinful reaction." This is going on. (break) ...should be very much cautious that "For my sinful actions my spiritual master will suffer. So I'll not commit a pinch of sinful action." That is the duty of the disciple. After initiation his all sinful reaction is finished. Now if he again commits sinful activities, the spiritual master has to suffer. They should be sympathetic for this, that "For my sinful activities my spiritual master will suffer." (break) ...attacked with some disease it is due to the sinful activities of the disciples. Exactly like Lord Jesus Christ was crucified on account of the sinful activities of others. (break) ...forbidden, "Don't make many disciples." But we do because we are preaching. Never mind, let us suffer; still, we shall accept. (break)... question was that when I suffer it is due to my past misdeeds? Was it not?
Bob: Yes, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is my misdeed, that I accept a disciple who is nonsense. That is my misdeed.
Prabhupāda: Then the wings fly there, and the jaws catch the food, and after all he puts into the mouth. Similarly, as in this body, this particular example, the stomach is the enjoyer, similarly, the central figure of whole cosmic manifestation, material or spiritual, the central figure is Kṛṣṇa, God. He's the enjoyer. We can understand. As in my this particular body, the body is also a creation. The body has got the same mechanism as you will find out in the whole universe. The same mechanical, anywhere you go, you find even in animals or human body or in the cosmic manifestation. Almost the same mechanism. So as you understand very easily that in this body, my body, your body, the stomach is the enjoyer. Or there is a central enjoyer. And the stomach is friend also of everyone. Because if we cannot digest food, you see, then all other limbs of the body they become weak. Therefore stomach is the friend. It is digesting and distribute the energy to all the limbs of the body. Is it not?
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things. And that is the cause of our trouble.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. So Veda, Veda means knowledge. So every human being should be interested for advancement of knowledge. So our movement is not a religious movement. It is a movement for advancement of knowledge. And this knowledge, God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is especially meant for this human body. Because knowledge cannot be given to animals. I cannot speak to the other animals about knowledge because they are imperfect. Their body is imperfect. They are not suitable for receiving knowledge. Only elementary knowledge for maintaining this body, they have got: where to secure food, where to sleep, how to have sexual intercourse, and how to defend. These knowledges are there in animals also. So human being requires further knowledge. That is special prerogative, gift by God, by nature. Whatever you say. So we should utilize this human body for furtherance of knowledge. And the first important knowledge is that we should know that there is life after death. That is the basic principle of knowledge. Unfortunately at the present moment, in no university there is any department of knowledge where this education is given where there is life after death. I am traveling all over the world. There is no such department. They have completely evaded or set aside because they cannot make any solution whether there is... I talked with one Mr. Kotovsky, a Russian professor in Moscow. I was in Moscow. He said, "Swamiji, there is no life after death." Just see. He's a big professor and his knowledge is so imperfect that he says that there is no life after death. So that is the position everywhere. Those who are teachers, they are with imperfect knowledge. The teachers in the universities, they are with imperfect knowledge. Now, life after death, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is very easily explained that just like a child has next life, boyhood. The boy has next life as youthhood. The youthhood has next life, the old age. So why not the old age next life? If we are passing through so many stages of life from birth or from the womb of the mother, then what is the reason that one does not believe there is no life after death? Can you say, any one of you? What is the reason? You remember your boyhood body; I remember my youthhood body. So that body is no longer existing, but I am existing. I remember my childhood body. My babyhood body also, I remember, particularly.
Prabhupāda: Or you can take one my cloth and change.
Devotee (1): There's a cotton piece. I have one cotton cloth.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you got puffed rice?
Devotee (1): No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I could not get.
Prabhupāda: Puffed rice is difficult to obtain. In India, puffed rice is very easily available.
Śyāmasundara: He says that here they close the stores and the shops. All the time the shops are closed around here.
Prabhupāda: All the time? Why?
Devotee (2): For holidays.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Devotee (2): A holiday will come, everything closes down. Four days, five days at a time. Banks, post offices.
Śyāmasundara: Not even a post office open.
Prabhupāda: Accha?
Śyāmasundara: Even tomorrow nothing's open.
Devotee (2): It's really incredible. It's really a disturbance.
Prabhupāda: What kind of government it is?
Prabhupāda: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remain with Kṛṣṇa, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bhāratavarṣa, India," janma sārthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and preach it." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. So if you take it you'll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy. And Kṛṣṇa-kathā means to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. Don't misinterpret by us..., just like some rascals do. Even a great scholar known all over the world practically in scholarly circle, he has practically vilified Kṛṣṇa by his so-called scholarship. Now he's suffering. He has lost himself, we have practically seen. So that is a great offense, to vilify saintly persons or God. That's great offense. So read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, present it as it is. Then your life is successful. Now, if you have got any question we can discuss.
Prabhupāda: Well, this seriousness comes after many, many births. It is also not so easy. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, tatra laulyam api mūlyam ekalaṁ janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. He wrote a verse, kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "The kṛṣṇa-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this thing, if you can purchase somewhere, just immediately purchase it." Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatām: "Just purchase." Yadi kuto 'pi labhyate. First of all, if you want to purchase, the things must be available. Yadi kuto. Therefore kuto 'pi, "If it is available, immediately purchase." Then next question is, "What is the value? What is the price I have to pay?" Then he said, tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam, "Simply your serious eagerness to have it. That is the price." "Oh, that I can have very easily." "No." Janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate: "That laulyam, that seriousness, is not obtained after thousands of years' pious activities." It is so difficult. Janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. People are acting piously, but that kind of seriousness is not available even after executing pious activities for thousands of lives. So that seriousness is also very difficult, to become very serious that "In this life I shall finish my business and go home, back to home, back to Godhead." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Kṛṣṇa says, "After many, many births, when actually one becomes in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me."
Guest (2): Are we all part of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are part. Yes, we are part of Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): If we are all part of Kṛṣṇa, then what does it matter whether we really worry about becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or not? We already are part of Kṛṣṇa, so whether we are conscious or not, we are there, you know, and it really doesn't need any effort at all.
Prabhupāda: Then you are part of human society. Then why you are trying to improve your position?
Devotee: Jaya.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: We've had a small center here for nearly a year, eight months.
Devotee (2): Well we're not saying that it, he's not saying that that's going to succeed, but at least it may not be as much of a travesty. Whether or not we're going to succeed at all in India in getting Indians to listen to what we are saying, that's another whole point.
Devotee (3): At least we won't be killing ourselves. At least we won't be making it so that in the future we will have to leave India. We'll be asked to leave, our visas will be taken away and we'll be asked to leave. These things can happen very easily. It is not a, it is not a, it's not an impossible thing. There are places in the world where we can't go already. Singapore. These things have happened. So I feel we should be very, very careful, selective, about who we let manage...
Prabhupāda: At Singapore our men cannot enter.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Devotee (2): This has happened.
Devotee (3): There's many places that, although legally we can enter, still people don't like us, you know.
Prabhupāda: That Singapore (indistinct) enter.
Śyāmasundara: They wouldn't even let you enter.
Devotee (3): I think that his point, I think we spoke about this in Manila, was that anywhere in the world, in, as a general policy, from what I've experienced is that if one or two people are sent to an area, or are in an area and they are given full authority to try to get that population to engage in bhakti-yoga, engage in this process, that that gradual development with the local people, that that has more effect than...
Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's more successful.
Brahmānanda: Twenty of seven. Twenty minutes of seven.
Prabhupāda: So we can return now. Which way? (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So their statement that life started from matter can be disproved very easily?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Any child can disprove it. And that theory is also wrong that lower type of animals were first created. No. All different varieties were, all were existing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda explains that in, in Bhagavad-gītā, in one of the purports.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever desire the living entities had before the annihilation, that became the, the living entities enter into different bodies according to their...
Prabhupāda: Desire.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...desire.
Prabhupāda: He wanted a certain type of life. So nature gives him. "All right, take this body." He desires in a certain way, means he's associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he's getting a particular type of body. Mind, mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing. These are the psychological functions. So, first of all, thinking. Then he develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation. (Break) One enters into the body of a pig. Then he'll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase. Somehow or other you fall down. Then again you have to go, step by step. This is the... The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.
Prabhupāda: So there is salt in the water. So from that salt it is produced?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. It reacts with the sodium, in the water, sodium in the water, in salt, that sodium reacts with silicic acid. So from sodium silicate, that becomes sand.
Karandhara: It's not rocks pounded down?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, rocks? Oh... No, we can make silicate very easily just by mixing the alkali, sodium and then acid, is just the reaction between the acid in the base. So forming an acid...
Prabhupāda: So far we know, there is this sand, combined with silicate of soda, makes glass.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, glass is nothing but silicate.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Finer sort. Normally silicate is shining, but this is not shining because it contains various mixtures. Not only soda, but other magnesium, calcium silicates.
Prabhupāda: Silicate of soda is mixed with soap also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Adulteration. That's not first-class soap. Washing soap, they are mixed with silicate of soda. (pause) What is this cottage?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That small cottage?
Prabhupāda: ...difficulty for the scientist to understand God? What is their difficulty? We understand God very easily.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They find it very hard to see the spirit, the soul in... It is very doubtful, they say.
Prabhupāda: No, no, spirit you see or don't see, that is dif...
Umāpati: He studies matter.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, once they see the spirit soul, they can detect somehow, then they are definitely convinced.
Prabhupāda: So how you can see? It is... The measurement is given, 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair. So where is your seeing power?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Still they want to sense it by some...
Prabhupāda: Sense, that is... Any rascal can sense that here is living energy. That is spirit soul. Just like if you inject one grain of poison and immediately he dies, does it require how he dies? That one, not one grain. Even one hundredth part of one grain, venomous poison, how it acts? So even nobody can see it, when the snake bites, nobody can see where is that... How he dies?
Prabhupāda: It can be measured; otherwise how it is said?
Krishna Tiwari: Very easily measured.
Prabhupāda: Ah! It can be measured, but they say there is no soul.
Krishna Tiwari: Scientists say there's no soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Because they don't know how to look for it.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, how they'll measure? That way it is impossible for them to measure.
Devotee: They can't find it.
Prabhupāda: They cannot find it.
Krishna Tiwari: But nobody else has.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Krishna Tiwari: Nobody else has found it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We, I said, this is the measurement.
Revatīnandana: The scientists, they have a term. Psychologists, they call it the idiot savant. The idiot savant means he's an idiot but he has one particular talent and because of that talent he can get along. Just like sometimes you find an idiot, he can look at a column of figures and he can compute the sum in his head very easily but he can't even understand how to tie his shoes. And I think these scholars are like that, they're actually idiots but they have one talent for Sanskrit or for history and because of that they can get along. They can support their body but otherwise they have no qualifications.
Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Unless he gets that post, he'll starve. He has got some talent in some particular subject but he must get some service. By serving others, he'll be able to utilize his talent and get some money, then he'll eat. This is śūdra's business. Dog's business. Just like a dog unless he has got a nice master, his position is very precarious. A street dog. Nobody will care neither it is (indistinct).
Yogeśvara: You point out in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that they go to school and learn to become Ph.D., then they have to knock on the door for a job and no one will open the door.
Prabhupāda: No vacancy, sir. So just like dog.
Revatīnandana: But they have a way to force them to work. The politicians force the scholars.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: If they don't print books, if they don't write a book every now and then and print it, get it published, they lose their tenure, their position as a professor. They must produce one book, then another book, then another book. If they don't, finished. In this way they are working all the time.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult.
Mr. Wadell: Well, it is both difficult and not difficult.
Prabhupāda: No. Everything, there is a Bengali word, yanra karya tare saje, anya loke lati baje. (?) Anything, if one is practiced to do, he can do it very easily. And for others, it is just like striking with a rod. Anya loke lati baje. Suppose if there is some difficulty in electricity, I do not know anything. It will be very, very difficult task for me. But anyone who knows, immediately he connects two wires, there is light. It is simply to know the art.
Mr. Wadell: Yes, I would say with respect, it is easy to feel love for people. It is not always easy to put this love into practice. Sometimes to love, you may have to be hard, apparently hard, to a person if you wish to help them.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that we want to love people, we want to help them, but if we do not know the process... The same thing, love or hate. That's it. You should know the process how to love. So our process is according to Vedic injunction, that yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ (SB 4.31.14). Just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the trees, everything, watered. Prāṇopahārāc ca yatendriyāṇām. If you supply food to the stomach, the energy is distributed to the hands, legs, eyes, and everywhere. This is the process. But if you take the food and separately push on in the eyes and the ears and the hands and the fingers it is useless.
Mr. Wadell: Oh yes, I agree, but...
Prabhupāda: I was invited there to speak: "East and West." So I explained that so far we are concerned, we have no such thing as east and west. But still, there is difference between east and west that in the Eastern countries, especially in India, even in the remotest part of the village, a cultivator, poor cultivator, he'll understand God consciousness very easily. And so far in the West, I talked with Professor Kotofsky... Perhaps you know.
Ambassador: Yes. In Oriental Institute.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He said, "Swamiji, after this body's finished, everything is finished." You see? Such a big professor. He...
Ambassador: That is Marxist materialism.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambassador: It is Marxist materialism.
Prabhupāda: But Marxist materialism, does it mean a congregation of some fools and rascals?
Ambassador: I think so, true.
Prabhupāda: Does it mean they like that some congregation of fools and rascals? Such a big professor, he does not know, he cannot understand even that there is life after death. He has to accept another body. As we are accepting different bodies. I was a child. You were a child. Then I became a boy. That is different body. Different consciousness also. A child, three-four years, he talks in a different way. A boy, ten-twelve years, he talks in a different way, and a young man, educated young man, he talks in a different way. So with the change of the body, the consciousness is changing. Is it not?
Ambassador: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No... nāpnuvanti. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhim. Siddhi, siddhi is ordinary. If you become transcendentalist, jñānī, yogi, that is also kind of siddhi. Yogis, they have got aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimādi. But that is not saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi is different. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. The highest perfection, saṁsiddhi is to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is saṁsiddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That will save him from coming down again to this place which is full of miserable conditions of life. That is saṁsiddhi. That one can attain very easily. That is also described, that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who understands Me in truth..." Generally, people understand Kṛṣṇa that "He appeared as a great personality, son of Vasudeva. At Mathurā, He was born. And He acted very gorgeously in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and so on, so on." This is also knowing. But this is not knowing factually that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands Kṛṣṇa, the original source of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), which Kṛṣṇa explains, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior authority beyond Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of all." When one understands Kṛṣṇa like that... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that "I am also Kṛṣṇa, I am also Kṛṣṇa." But people who follow, they do not ask him that "If you are Kṛṣṇa, you show something as Kṛṣṇa showed. Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill when He was seven years old. And you are seventy years old. What you have done like that?" (laughs) So everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot manifest Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Kṛṣṇa showed the virāṭ-rūpa to Arjuna. What you have got? So this is Māyāvāda. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody can be superior than Me or equal to Me, equal to Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Asamordhva. Nobody is equal; nobody is above Him. Asamordhva. So in this way if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9).
Prabhupāda: If Indira Gandhi comes one day...
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...that will be very nice.
Śyāmasundara: We're thinking if we can get either one of those two, then everyone else will come very easily. They'll give money, everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. It is very nice. Indira Gandhi knows our movement. Is it not? Yes, she knows.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. I approached her that you are the great, the greatest emissary of Kṛṣṇa, of Indian culture outside of India. So...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But these rascals do not appreciate it. Others are appreciating.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The foreign countries, they're appreciating, "Here is real Indian culture." They should also appreciate by the result.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, that's the point.
Prabhupāda: By the result, not theoretical.
Śyāmasundara: No. So we were showing pictures and books.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But you cannot assimilate all the answers in one day. That is not possible. You see. You have many questions, but ask in many days, not in one day. Otherwise you will get indigestion. (laughter) You will not be able to... Simply you go on questioning, questioning, and don't take anything. That is no use. Take. Make one question. Try to understand. Adopt it in life. Then make another question. Don't take all the answers at a time and become suffering in dysentery. No. (laughter) Don't do that. That's alright. You cannot take one month's food in one hour. Can you take? So that's alright. Gradually. Your questions are nice, but don't take the answers all in a day. That will be not good. If you understand very easily, then you will forget very easily.
Guest (2): That is natural. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Natural, you see. If you understand little with difficulty, then you will forget also with difficulty. This is the way. So any other question? After this question-answer? (end)
Prabhupāda: "He has got this disease." So similarly, in Jyotir-veda they have got similar symptoms: "If such and such stars are now nearer to this star"—they have got this calculation—"then the position is this." So they learn very quickly. Indian brāhmaṇas, they learned Jyotir-veda, Āyur-veda, very quickly. Because brāhmaṇas they are meant to go to every house to inform the date, the everything. So generally people are inquisitive about the health. So they ask, "Now I am feeling like this." So they give medicine. And they give some astrological hint also. So in this way people gave them some contribution. That is their livelihood. So this... All the systems were made very easy on account of this Vedic injunction. So therefore we take Vedic knowledge as perfect, and we understand everything by Vedic knowledge about God, about His place, about His activities. And God comes as incarnation. He sends His representative. Then it is corroborated. And that is perfect knowledge of God. Kṛṣṇa's, God's feature—everything is described in the Vedas: Brahma-saṁhitā, Yajur-veda, Sāma-veda, like that. And when Kṛṣṇa descends, He practically demonstrates all the symptoms of God. So then we accept God. And it is confirmed by authorities. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa Himself says that "I am the Supreme." Arjuna accepts, the direct listener from God. And later on, the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, who control the society, just Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they accept. Latest, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepts. So our guru-paramparā all accepts Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa describes Himself. So where is the difficulty to understand God? The symptoms are there in the śāstras. And those symptoms are visible in Kṛṣṇa. Just like everyone can understand, "God is all powerful." So Kṛṣṇa showed that He is all powerful. So there is no difficulty to understand. So our method is easy. Instead of intellectual gymnastic, we take it very easily. And that acts. Now, so far our Society is concerned, we accept Kṛṣṇa as God. We're preaching Kṛṣṇa as God. So we have no difficulty. It is acting practically. So we... I may be Indian, Hindu, I may accept Kṛṣṇa as God. Maybe superstition, you may say. But why these European, Americans, Africans, they are accepting? And within very short time.
Prabhupāda: No, no, every common man he says "I got my mathematics." Will he be accepted?
Hṛdayānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: So why these things should be allowed? That is our proposition. Every man will say, "No, I've got my own mathematics." Will he be allowed? So we have to fight, otherwise what is the meaning of preaching?
Hṛdayānanda: Fight.
Prabhupāda: If you think that everything will be accepted very easily, then what is the necessity of preaching?
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: And propaganda.
Hṛdayānanda: You have to fight.
Prabhupāda: You must know that they are all rascals. That I said, rascals, unbelievers. You have to convert them to be sane man. That is preaching.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching. What do you expect that every man will immediately go and he'll agree with you? Why do you expect like that? That is foolishness.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: You must know that everybody will disagree with you, and it is your preaching work that you will make him agree with you. That is your preaching work.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, let's call them in our temple, be practiced. Therefore our society is the most important society. We can teach people how to utilize time properly and be perfect. (break)
Prajāpati: ...well you utilize your time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every second is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. And our advanced Godbrothers, they've also learned this art. The vast majority of us, we haven't quite got the hang of it yet.
Prabhupāda: It is practiced. As by practicing you become a first-class drunkard, similarly by practicing you can become a first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is equal. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā (BG 8.8). Abhyāsa. Practice. In association the practice is very easily done. Just like you are saying, that you are engaged. So by association you can learn also. The association is very important. (break)
Prajāpati: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda. You're very, very regulated, almost down to the minute in your activities. This is also a big help in utilizing time?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Avyartha kāla tam(?) That explains the... This is... This should be our aim. Not a single moment is wasted. If you try that "How I'm wasting my time," then you'll utilize it. You should always remember. Not a single moment should be wasted. That is advised by Rūpa Gosvāmī. Avyartha kāla tam. Vyartha means spoiling. Avyartha means not spoiling. Avyartha kāla. He should be always conscious that "I am not wasting my time." Then it will be done. Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...on the street. The bums, they also utilize, that they want to see that not a moment is wasted without drinking. (devotees chuckle) Yes, they actually do that. They want to drink only, twenty-four hours. As soon as the bottle is finished, they're finding somebody who will pay one dollar, and purchase another small bottle. They're doing only business this. (break)
Prajāpati: ...the holy name and devotional service.
Prabhupāda: Siddha, there is a Siddha-loka. So they can fly from one planet to another without any machine, siddha-saṅgāḥ. Means the aṣṭa-siddhi yogas, they have got naturally.
Dr. Patel: All aṣṭa-siddhis, they have got.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are called siddha, Siddha-loka. Just like here if anyone wants to walk over the water, he requires to acquire so much mystic power. You see? Some of the yogis. But you will find one bird, skylark, one swan, he is very easily doing.
Dr. Patel: They have siddhas from the birth.
Prabhupāda: So they are trying to get that siddha, the perfection, by so much yogic process, but another living entity, without understanding any yogic process, can do that. So these things are not very great gains. There are... In different planets there are different living entities. Just like we cannot touch fire, but in the sun globe there are also life, human beings, but their body is made of fire. Just like in the water. I cannot go into the water, but there are so many small fishes, they are living very nicely. So this we do not know. We are trying to gain success in these material activities, but by God's will, there are different living entities. They have already all the successes. So therefore our real business is not to waste our time to get any material success. Our real business is how we shall be successful to become an obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is real success.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Let me explain this. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered benediction, "Now you take benediction." So he said that "Where is benediction? I have seen my father was so powerful materially that even the demigods, they were frightened. So even if I get certain material successes, but you can finish it within a second. So why shall I take all these benedictions? Please engage me as the servant of your servant. That is my success."
Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.
Indian (3): No, exactly. We should not do anything...
Prabhupāda: No. (break) ...American, rude. That is my experience. He may not agree with my philosophy. (break) ...the reason is that they are not poverty-stricken. Yes. When one becomes poverty-stricken, his all good qualities become null and void. Daridra-doṣa guṇa-rāśi nāśī. Our country is now poverty-stricken. Therefore we have lost our all good qualities. (break) ...loss is that we have lost our culture, original Vedic culture. That is the greatest loss. When the culture was that one man was trying to kill one cow, and immediately Mahārāja Parīkṣit wanted to take step against him. Now just see how much that culture has gone down. Here ten thousand, twelve thousand cows are being killed regularly under government management. You see. (break) ...for stopping cow-killing.
Indian (3): But even then they don't listen.
Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion? The more they take to the sinful activities, the more they become implicated—again birth and birth and birth and birth. Unless one is completely free, he cannot understand what is God. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ pāpam. You know this verse? The Bhagavad-gītā, yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: When one becomes free of sinful activities, then he can begin devotional life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Not at all. Very easily, in one second. If you have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). These are sinful activities. Immediately Kṛṣṇa will help you, "All right." Immediately. Kṛṣṇa said. Is He bluffing? If you sincerely take to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet, immediately the effect will be you give up all this nonsense. They don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, they don't believe in Kṛṣṇa's word; neither they will surrender; neither they will give up. So where is the reformation? They want to remain in degradation and protesting... This is māyā. This is the called, prakṣepātmika śakti, to keep him in degradation, that "You rascal, you have come to enjoy material happiness. So I will keep you in this degradation and you suffer. I shall kick on your face." This is māyā. So what is the result of this protest against degradation?
Akṣayānanda: They get shot. The police come and shoot them.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And tax you and get fat salary. That's all. This is government. They will degrade you and take your money and enjoy themselves. That's all. (break) ...revolution in India. Yes. Because people are hungry. There is no food. A very great revolution. So long they were under Vedic culture, they were suffering. Suffering in this way-tolerating. Now that culture is gone. Now they will be violent. Just like in other countries. If you pinch somebody on and on, there will be a violent protest. In the beginning you may tolerate. But if you go on pinching, pinching, pinching, how long you will tolerate? This is India's condition. Britishers, when they were ruling, had some responsibility. Although they were exploiting, but they were arranging for sufficient food and other things. But these people are irresponsib..., simply personal. "Whatever money I can get, that's all." This is going on. All these so-called ministers, they come to the post for taking money, as much as possible. (break) It must have been belonging to some Nawab, Nizam. It is aristocratic building, not ordinary building. (break)
Prabhupāda: We have to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness because such consciousness will help us to be free from the contamination of these different types of material consciousness and save us from transmigrating from one body to another. So we accept this different association on account of our strong propensity for sense gratification. Therefore we have to purify the senses so that the senses may be engaged in the service of the master of the senses. Hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate.
- sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
- tat-paratvena nirmalam
- hṛṣīkena hṛṣīkeśa-
- sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
- (CC Madhya 19.170)
Bhakti means to be free from all sorts of material designation. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Italian,"—these are all designations of the body. So we have to become free from these designations. And that is called nirmalam, purification. And when we are nirmalam, without any contamination, then we can engage the senses in the service of the master of the senses. Master of the senses is Kṛṣṇa, or God. Actually, He is master of the senses. Just like I am feeling comfort by using this sense, touch sense, hand, in this way, but I am not master because at any moment this hand can be paralyzed. So I am not the master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. So if it is engaged in the service of the master, then it is in its normal condition. And then we are liberated. And this purification you can take very easily by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa—that means immediately associate with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's name and Kṛṣṇa, nondifferent. So as, if we associate with fire it becomes warm, the quality of the fire comes; as it is materially possible, spiritually it is possible in perfect order. Process is the same. You associate with Kṛṣṇa, and you become Kṛṣṇaite, as pure as Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is therefore advising, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So Kirpal Singh also studies Bhagavad-gītā? I am asking this. Kirpal Singh, he teaches on the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?
Nitāi: To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.
In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, and this stage is attained very easily by the pure devotee. In that stage of existence, the idea of becoming one with the Supreme Brahman and annihilating one's individuality becomes hellish, and the idea of attaining the heavenly kingdom becomes phantasmagoria, and the senses are like broken serpents' teeth. As there is no fear of a serpent with broken teeth, so there is no fear from the senses when they are automatically controlled. The world is miserable for the materially infected person, but for a devotee the entire world is as good as Vaikuṇṭha, or the spiritual sky. The highest personality in this material universe is no more significant than an ant for a devotee. Such a stage can be achieved by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, who preached pure devotional service in this age.
O'Grady: Could you read the opening little bit again?
Bhagavān: How far can a bullock cart travel in one day?
Prabhupāda: At least ten miles, very easily, very easily. And maximum he can travel fifteen miles, twenty miles. But when we are localized, we don't require to go beyond ten miles, five miles. Because we have created a rubbish civilization, therefore one is required to go fifty miles for earning bread, hundred miles, hanging.
Dhanañjaya: Like in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Why Los Angeles? Everywhere. In New York they are coming from hundred miles. From the other side of the island. First ferry steamer, then bus, then so on, so on. Three hours, four hours, they spend for transport.
Satsvarūpa: Is this an ideal solution or a practical one?
Prabhupāda: This is practical.
Satsvarūpa: Because sometimes we say that actually we cannot change the course of the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our society will be ideal by practical application.
Satsvarūpa: If we stopped all the transportation industry, there would be huge unemployment. It would be a great...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not going to stop employment. We live like this. You see. If you like, you live like us.
Bhagavān: Example.
Prabhupāda: Example.
Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.
C. Hennis: We are interested in that, too. We are interested in that, too. We don't want to tell people how to spend their money. We think that this would be...
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to say. But because he hasn't got brain, because he is not guided by the brain, he will misspend and create disturbance in the society.
Prabhupāda: It is a little technical subject, so translation. We... Our Bhagavad-gītā, there is yoga practice also. So we approve this yoga practice. There is no doubt. And in the Vedic literature it is said, dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, they also sees the Absolute Truth by meditation within the mind. So this process is approved process, and there are divisions. Sagarbha-yogī, nirgarbha-yogī (?). So what is your special subject matter of yoga?
M. Roost: I try to make a yoga with understanding from occident... I saw that occidental people is more intellectual, and I don't understand very easily the karma-yoga. The dynamics and... I don't understand we must work without, without goal, without intention, without personal intention. And I try to show through the practice of haṭha-yoga that posture and prāṇāyāma and concentration. I try to...
Prabhupāda: Beginning from abdomen?
M. Roost: The kind of meditation I learned in India with Swami Satyananda, it's a few different type meditation.
Prabhupāda: They begin from the abdomen, maṇipūraka, maṇipūraka. And then the intestines. They come to the heart; then ultimately, to the brahma-randhra. This practice?
M. Roost: Yes, it's a practice of kuṇḍalinī-yoga, but very, very temperate, moderate. It is not the kuṇḍalinī-yoga with strong prāṇāyāma. It's more a question of conscious of awareness of breathing and...
Prabhupāda: Awareness of?
M. Roost: Breathing. For example, breathing which starts in...
Pradyumna: Mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam ātmānaṁ mat-parāyaṇaḥ.
Prabhupāda: In another place it is said asaṁśaya, that is in the Eighteenth Chapter. So to go back to home, back to Godhead, is very easy, but people will not take to it. They are stubborn; they will stick here, the miserable life, material life. This is the difficulty. Otherwise, God can be achieved very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things.
- yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
- mad-gatenāntarātmanā
- śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
- sa me yukta(tamo mataḥ)
- (BG 6.47)
The first-class yogis. Actually no education required. Simply God has given us the tongue and the ear. So it's Hare Kṛṣṇa, tongue, and hear with the ear. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhir: by hearing, the sound enters into the heart. In this way you become purified, mind is cleansed, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It is very scientific and very easy. And we are recommending—"we" means Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He says that "You chant the name of God." Now, if somebody thinks "Kṛṣṇa is Hindu God, why shall I chant?" it doesn't matter. You chant your conception of God. What is the name of God in Christianity? Is there any name?
French Man: Jehovah.
Prabhupāda: Jehovah?
French Man: He has no name in Christianity.
Bhagavān: Then we can ask, "What is that great?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are doing! You can understand very easily. Just like you want money. You are in need of money, but you have no sufficient money. So greatness means he has more than sufficient money. That is greatness. Suppose you are weak, and if He is like you, no. He is unlimitedly stronger than you. You have got knowledge, but not perfect knowledge. But He has got unlimited knowledge. In this way you can understand greatness. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He understands the point.
Prabhupāda: Greatness should be understood, comparing my position. We can understand, "This man is greater than me. He is superior than me." That we can understand. Similarly, we can understand. Just like we human being, we are floating, flying one biggest airplane, 747, and we are thinking we are very wonderful, but that great is floating millions of planets in the air. But the foolish man cannot see the process. He can see that a pilot is floating this airplane, so there must be one big pilot who is floating all these things. But he cannot see. Therefore he says, "Nature." So he cannot see. Just like a child he cannot see that within the plane there is a pilot (pronounces pee-lot, French pronunciation of "pilot") or pilot. He is thinking that the plane is moving automatically. So one who is foolish, he sees the cosmic wonderful work only. He does not know there is a pilot. And in the absence of that knowledge he is thinking that I am also being moved in that way. So so long I do not see the pilot of the cosmic movement, I am fool. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. (laughs) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). His knowledge is lost.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst men, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." (French)
Prabhupāda: So narādhama, means lowest of the mankind. In the human form of life one could understand that as there is a pilot in the aeroplane, there is a pilot on this big cosmic manifestation.
Prabhupāda: So nowadays the rascal philosophy has spread that everyone is God, and therefore nobody is humble and meek. If everyone thinks that he is God, then why he should be humble and meek? So they are being educated how to become humble and meek. In the temple, to God, or to the spiritual master, the God's representative, they offer always respect by offering obeisances. That is humble and meek. They are doing very easily progress, you see, only on account of this humbleness and meekness. Even on the road, if they see me, they immediately fall down flat. Never mind there is dust. This very qualification is pushing them towards spiritual realization. In the Vedic scripture it is said,
- yasya deve parā bhaktir
- yathā deve tathā gurau
- tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
- prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
- (ŚU 6.23)
Yasya... "Anyone who has got unflinching faith in God and His representative, the spiritual master, to him only, the purport of the scriptures become revealed." (German)
Pater Emmanuel: (German)
German devotee: He is asking if he should not show this humility, attitude of humility, to all others.
Pater Emmanuel: Exercise upon others.
Prabhupāda: But just like special respect and ordinary respect.
Prabhupāda: Peacock also, they can digest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can swallow the very hard peas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And they can digest very easily.
Prabhupāda: (loud waves) ...I have seen.
Bali Mardana: According to Vedic culture, is seaweed edible?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bali Mardana: Seaweed? Is that edible?
Prabhupāda: I don't find. Why they should eat seaweed?
Bali Mardana: In Asia, many people eat seaweed. Certain types of plants that grow in the sea.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Rāmeśvara: In America it is very popular.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but why man should eat seaweed?
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: When there are so many nice things.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): ...and abstract investigations. Now, in normal Western thinking we do deny the very purpose of that question. As a matter of fact, we never ask it. Since time when Leibnitz did ask this question we all forgot it, or deliberately we suppress it. We simply say, "All right, let's be concerned only with those things which we can deal with effectively in material world. And the question of purpose let's leave aside." Now, I suppose that within this system of thought which you have...
Prabhupāda: I may tell you two things. The purpose is... That is experienced by every one of us, what is the purpose of life, what is the purpose, anything. That, everyone, we can understand very easily. The purpose is ānanda. Pleasure. That is the purpose. There is no difficulty to understand what is the purpose. The purpose is pleasure-seeking. Or purpose is pleasure. One who hasn't got the pleasure, he's seeking after it. That is the purpose. Purpose is ānanda. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is the Vedānta-sūtra. Everyone of us, seeking ānanda. The scientific knowledge, philosophy, or even driving the car or whatever you are doing—the purpose is ānanda. That is a common factor. Purpose is... Why I am eating palatable dishes? I can eat anything, but I am seeking that "This sort of foodstuff will please me." That is ānanda.
Guest (1): That is driving force and motivation of most human activities. But the question, purpose, which Leibnitz was asking for, he was asking on higher plane, in abstraction.
Prabhupāda: Higher plane means you are seeking after pleasure, but that is being obstructed. That is your position. You are seeking pleasure, but it is not unobstructed. Therefore you are seeking higher, where there is no obstruction. Pleasure is the purpose, but when you speak of higher plane, that means you are experiencing obstruction in getting pleasure. So you are seeking a platform where there is no obstruction. But the purpose is the same.
Prabhupāda: Not for themselves. They knew the art how to manufacture nice building, but they did not care for personal use. It was used for Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes only the kings, in order to keep their position, they used to have gorgeous building. Otherwise ordinary men, cottage. (break) To live in cottage means to save time.
Mexican devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in one of the magazines I read that there was a saint who he didn't even construct a rug?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Romaharṣaṇa. (break) Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ, yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. If there is timely cloud and rainfall, this ground can be moistened very easily. But they won't perform yajña; therefore there is scarcity of cloud and rain. Now they have to manufacture this sprinkler. And it is not perfect. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: Another question, Prabhupāda. He said that you have stated that Kali-yuga will last for around 400,000 more years and then it will be finished and that the culture will gradually degrade, people will become very short and so on and so forth. So he's wondering if there will be geographical changes in the world or if the culture as we know it now will simply disappear and how the people will be... More or less, he's wondering what will become of the earth.
Prabhupāda: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. (break) In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation. (laughter) (break)
Prabhupāda: No, this is not... Philosophy, of course... Philosophy is the science of science. This is scientifically true that we are not this body.
Hṛdayānanda: So I'll tell you what else he said. He said that even though we may not be this body, even though we should be looking for God, still, for example, he, as a doctor, if a patient comes to him and has, for example, say, some disease, he can, within twenty-four hours, cure the disease and stop the person's suffering. And he feels that even though he may be looking for God, that does not mean that he should let someone go on suffering if he can very easily stop it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not I am talking of God. I am talking of the constitutional position of the living being. That is science. So just like the same example: the driver is different from the car, but when there is some defect in the car, we are not advising that don't take care of the car. But if you simply take care of the car and don't take care of the driver, that is the basic mistake of the civilization.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying because this body can be used for intellectual advancement, therefore he's saying that sometimes people become so much concerned with intellectual things that they neglect their body.
Prabhupāda: It is not... It is beyond intellectual. The intellect also belong to the body. But understanding of the soul is beyond intellectual.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he has come with the idea that in order to pursue the philosophy, whatever philosophy we have, that the body must be in the best possible condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna. Then you will understand. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśi, one who has seen the truth, he can enlighten you. This is the process. Otherwise, even Gandhi, Dr. Rādhākrishnan, Vivekānanda, all they have committed mistake. Aurobindo. Aurobindo has understood little to some extent, but not fully. But if we are fortunate enough, then we can understand Kṛṣṇa very easily. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, there is no more superior truth than Me." So if we accept that, either you say blindly or conscientiously, then that is perfection. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births of philosophical speculation, when one actually becomes wise, jñānī, jñānavān, full of knowledge, then the result is māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders unto Me." Why surrender? Now, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)—he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such mahātmā is very rare." That I was... we were discussing that there are so many religious system in the world, but hardly they have got any clear conception of God. I have asked so many gentlemen belonging to different types of religion that "What is the clear conception of God?" So may I ask you also what is the clear conception of God?
Prabhupāda: No progress. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. This is the greatest offense. (break) (switches to room conversation) ...the animals and human beings. Then they can work. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni, then parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Now parjanyaḥ, cloud and rain, that is required. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Then you have to arrange for sacrifice. So in the Kali-yuga the costly sacrifice is not possible. Therefore from the śāstra we understand, yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32). Sumedhasaḥ, "one who has got good brain substance." There is one word in Bhagavad-gītā, alpa-medhasaḥ: "poor brain substance." So we require some sumedhasaḥ, not alpa-medhasaḥ. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasaḥ (BG 7.23). They are making plans by their material concoction that... That is antavat. That will be finished. Antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ tad bhavaty alpa-medhasaḥ. The things are there already, especially in India. We have got everything ready, and especially this land India. It is specially meant for God realization. By the birth, one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious. Still in these days, whenever... You have seen in Hyderabad. Although your conference was going on, still, at least five thousand men were attracted to hear me. (Guest laughs) And I was speaking the dry subject of Kṛṣṇa. So India is so fortunate. They are still ready to assimilate the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. The land is so fortunate. So we must give them the chance. That is our duty. That is government's duty. That is teacher's duty. That is father's duty. That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. Pitā na sa syāt. Guru's duty. One who has got the chance of accepting something very easily... The guardians... The first guardian, the government, the second, the father, then the teacher, then so many, friends, relatives—that chance should be given. So Nandaji is thinking... He is an experienced...
Guest (1): Actually, Kṛṣṇa Raya (?) has performed there. Nandaji had taken that troupe there.
Prabhupāda: So he is also a big man. Now he is retired from politics?
Prabhupāda: Then after effects, what will happen, that is another thing. But the war will not continue for ten years or five years, like that.
Bali-mardana: Many Communist countries now, they are not making any more big cities. They are keeping the population very spread out so that after the war they will be able to take over. Because if one has a big city, then the people can be killed very easily in one bomb, finished. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they are afraid of death?
Bali-mardana: Well, the Chinese figure they have so many people that even if there is a war...
Prabhupāda: They are gainer.
Bali-mardana: There will still be so many of them left. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...they will be left. (break) Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't bother. (break) (in car) Statistics of hitchhike. What is called, hitchhike?
Siddha-svarūpa: Hitchhikers.
Prabhupāda: So mostly rape cases.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, because they don't want to make a different... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...call it Jooeypur.(?) Joo-ee(?) Joo-ee.(?) (break) ...America can drop the first bomb in Moscow, then they will come out triumphant. And the Communists will be finished. (break) ...friendship with Pakistan only for this reason. It is just on the border of Russia. If from Pakistan they can drop the first bomb in Moscow. (break)
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is helping us. Take advantage of it. (break) Vyāsadeva compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam for this purpose. Anartha upasamam sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaja. These lokasya ajānataḥ, people are suffering on account of ignorance, so to give them proper knowledge, he made this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (break) Who can become more learned than Vyāsadeva? Therefore he is known as vidvān, the most, supreme learned. He made this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam to help these rascals who are spoiling their life only in sense gratification. (break) Life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). They do not know that our existentional condition is impure. The question does not arise that "I do not wish to die. Why there is death?" They are so dull-headed, this question does not... They are trying to solve so many question, but this question does not arise in their mind, that "I don't wish to die. Why death is forced upon me?" Inquire. Come on, all philosophers and scientists, come and make an inquiry commission, that "I don't want to die. The death is forced upon me. I don't want to become old man, and it is forced upon me. What is the reason?" Therefore they are rascals. The prime problem, they have set aside. Big, big scientists... That Professor Einstein and other, other, they are big, big scientists. They do not consider this question, that "I am a big scientist. So I am also going to die. So why it is?" That question, they have set aside. And they manufacture atom bomb to make dead very easy, not to stop death, but death-making very easily available. This is scientific. Hmm? Is that scientific?
Bahulāśva: No.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is dying, and they accelerate death. And that is taken as scientific.
Satsvarūpa: They are also making research how to stop death.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Satsvarūpa: They're making... But it's useless.
Prabhupāda: So that is in our hands; that is not in their hands.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall make a program, and it may be approved by the professors, and then we will let them study.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's some questions here.
Prabhupāda: And there should be one practical examination, not only theoretical, but practical. This will be the chanting and following the regulative principles. (laughter) Otherwise it will not be successful. It will be successful. It will take some time. But if they take help of this practical life it will be very easily successful.
Bahulāśva: Not just reading the books but there also must be chanting and following the regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will turn your America as Vaikuṇṭha. And that is your duty, to save your countrymen. I think the America is... The people were pious in their past life. They have got this opulent position. Now they should use this opulent position. They have no poverty. They haven't got to work so hard, and they take advantage of this knowledge. Other countries, they are poor. They are busy how to earn their livelihood. But your country, because you are favored on account of your previous pious activities, you should utilize this position. People are embarrassed for improving their economic condition in other countries. Of course, if one is cultured, he is not embarrassed in any condition of life. But without Kṛṣṇa culture, poverty-stricken people, they are very much hampered. So you have no such problem. Therefore you can utilize your position, this opulent position, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As a learned scholar you should advocate this cause. Why should you waste your time in sense gratification? That is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs. Why this life? That is also... We have described in the Fifth Canto, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). For simply to satisfy the senses, why you should make such a gorgeous program for working? The sense gratification is enjoyed even by the hogs, the stool-eater. This particular animal is mentioned because they are gratifying senses without any discrimination. You will find the hogs eating stool, and they are with mothers and sister and have sex life, that's all. They have no discrimination. So this kind of sense gratification is there in the hog's life. So are the human beings to imitate the hog's life? This is the question. So they are imitating the hog's life, all the human being. This is the defect. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Working so hard day and night, and only sex, that's all. This is life's enjoyment? This is a hog's life. And what else they have got happiness?
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...fifty devotees in Paris now. So that temple there is very crowded. Impossible.
Prabhupāda: So, why not some of them moved?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, that's their plan. (break) ...enough for several hundred devotees very easily. (break) They're letting us through in the mornings for nothing now, I think, unless this man is going to nip us. (break)
Prabhupāda: Why?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was in maṅgala āratik. I don't know where he is now. (break)
Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda is not come? Nobody knows why? (break)
Devotees: He was in maṅgala āratik.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was not dancing very much, though. So maybe he was not... (break)
Rādhā-ballabha: Here comes Brahmānanda.
Prabhupāda: How he comes? (laughing) He is running. Oh, another car?
Bahulāśva: Yes. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This not like Juhu.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...Mahārāja feeling separation of Māyāpur.
Dharmādhyakṣa:
- naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu
- nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā
- bhagavaty uttama-śloke
- bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī
- (SB 1.2.18)
Translation: By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.
Purport: Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.
The devotee Bhāgavata is a direct representative of Bhagavān, the Personality of Godhead. So by pleasing the devotee Bhāgavata one can receive the benefit of the book Bhāgavata. Human reason fails to understand how by serving the devotee Bhāgavata or the book Bhāgavata one gets gradual promotion on the path of devotion. But actually these are facts explained by Śrīla Nāradadeva, who happened to be a maidservant's son in his previous life. The maidservant was engaged in the menial service of the sages, and thus he also came into contact with them. And simply by associating with them and accepting the remnants of foodstuff left by the sages, the son of the maidservant got the chance to become the great devotee and personality Śrīla Nāradadeva. These are the miraculous effects of the association of Bhāgavatas. And to understand these effects practically, it should be noted that by such sincere association of the Bhāgavatas one is sure to receive transcendental knowledge very easily, with the result that he becomes fixed in the devotional service of the Lord. The more progress is made in devotional service under the guidance of the Bhāgavatas, the more one becomes fixed in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. The messages of the book Bhāgavata, therefore, have to be received from the devotee Bhāgavata, and the combination of these two Bhāgavatas will help the neophyte devotee to make progress on and on.
Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to everyone, devotee Bhāgavata and grantha-Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life. Kāma-lobha, lusty desires or greediness. This is the process. And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are also young men. They never ask permission from me any time, "Now, today, I want to go to the cinema." They have got all the monies in their hand. They never misspend without my permission. They are also young men, born in the western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given up. This is practical. Professor Judah has written me letter. You know him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...may be, must be. (laughter)
Nitāi: The only difficulty we face in editing is that sometimes there are problems that come up which we can't figure out ourselves.
Prabhupāda: So I shall remain here.
Nitāi: If you remain here, then we can finish very easily.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) There was some defect in the roof. They are repairing?
Nitāi: The roof there? Yes, the roof has been fixed.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...ārati time about hundred devotee, outsiders come?
Nitāi: At least.
Prabhupāda: Oh, at least.
Nitāi: It's crowded every night. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...perform āratika nicely?
Nitāi: Yes, it's done very nicely.
Prabhupāda: How much, how long they do it?
Nitāi: They do for about twenty-five minutes.
Prabhupāda: Only?
Brahmānanda: In the movie, yes.
Prabhupāda: There? You see? He is loading so much, and what he is eating? Little grass. So the ass does not know, "The grass is available here. Why shall I work for him?" That is ass. He is working so hard for a few morsel of grass, and the grass is all over the world, but he will take the load. That is ass. My problem is eating, sleeping, mating, so I can arrange for these things very easily. Anywhere, I till the ground and get some food. I keep some cows and I have got land, then my whole economic question is solved. Why shall I make this bambhārambha-bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, big, big...? You do it, but why should you forget your real business? That is the defect, that you are so foolish that only for this maintaining body, you have forgotten your real business.
Devotee (1): Not everyone has the opportunity to get some land and some cows, to till the land and grow their food.
Prabhupāda: No opportunity?
Devotee (2): Not enough, Śrīla Prabhupāda, not enough land.
Prabhupāda: Not enough? Let them come, I shall give them. So much land in America. They say "No land"? The all...
Yadubara: Just like the tri-shaw driver. We invite him to our temple, but he says he has to work so hard. He will not come.
Prabhupāda: He will go to the brothel. That he has got time. To the liquor house to forget his labor. This is civilization. Mūḍha, mūḍha civilization. Why the Communist are coming? Why Communist party is there? What is the philosophy, Communist?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We invite. As soon as they have got a leisure hour, let them come and live with us for one week and see the result. They can remain forever. It doesn't matter. But for experimental sake they can come, live with us and associate with us. It is not difficult. And we invite everyone. We have no such discrimination that black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, no. Anyone. It is universal. Because we consider every living entity is part and parcel of God. That is a fact. We are teeny gods, part and parcel. The same quality we have got—in minute quantity. Quality is the same, quantity is less. So God is good, so we are also good. But we have become bad under circumstances. Just like under infection, one becomes diseased. So if we cure that infection, again he becomes good. So it is the curing process. It is not an external artificial thing, imposed upon somebody, no. His goodness is there. Just like generally a man is healthy, but by infecting some disease he becomes diseased. So this material way of life is a kind of infection. So we have to cure that. And this is our process. And it has become successful. So therefore this problem of your country... I was this morning also lecturing that "You take up this movement very seriously and save your country." And if you save America, means you save the whole world because others are following America. So you can do it very easily. That is my appeal to the authorities of the American administration. But I do not want anything. For your countrymen, for your misguided youthful generation, you have to do it. That is my request. Otherwise there is no other way.
Viṣṇujana: According to national statistics, as far as curing drug problems and crime problems, it's seen that social organizations that are supported by the town councils, etc. are usually about 3% effective in cases cured of either drug addiction or crime. But as far as religious organizations are concerned, some of them are 70, 80% effective in cases that have been attempted cure. So it's, as far as percentage cured, the process of introducing God consciousness is much more effective than some social reform or rehabilitation work or something like that.
Prabhupāda: No, put it here. He'll take. Take this prasāda. They are all fruits, innocent. In your country you have got so many nice fruits.
Mayor: Yes, we do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And grains and milk. So much nice things. You can avoid meat-eating very easily, as they have given up.
Mayor: It looks very good, but I (indistinct) with a knife. (laughter)
Viṣṇujana: Someone is bringing a fork. Prabhupāda, perhaps we could provide him with some of our literature and that will inform him more about our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes, give him.
Mayor: All right, thank you.
Prabhupāda: So, Jagadīśa, you give whatever... You take his... Give him some fork.
Mayor: I had some cake over at the temple on Emerson Street, so I'm being well-fed this morning. (break)
Viṣṇujana: ...park areas where a lot of young people go for their summertime. And we'll be putting on our program right there in the park. We'll be chanting with our simple instruments. We'll want to serve some simple vegetarian, like a drink and some fruit, and discuss this philosophy amongst young people. We find that very successful all over the colleges in the country. And we think that around the Great Lakes here it will be very successful.
Jayatīrtha: Not very easily.
Prabhupāda:
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
- (samādhau) na vidhīyate
- (BG 2.44)
Therefore too much attachment for material enjoyment is disqualification for spiritual life. So the western world is trained up for being too much attached to material enjoyment. Therefore lagging behind in spiritual life. Vedic civilization is not to encourage too much for material enjoyment. Minimize. That is Indian civilization. They, if they had money they used to spend for constructing big temple, not for residential house. Maybe the king only had a big palace. Common men, they didn't care for big palace, the palatial building. Common man would be very glad to live in a cottage, and a small garden for growing vegetables, fruits, small lake, that's all. Not wasting time for big, big buildings, big, big... What is called, amenities?
Jayatīrtha: Amenities. (break)
Prabhupāda: It is good you have done this, but make this Kṛṣṇa consciousness also one of the paraphernalia. Then it is very nice. But they are not inclined. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Jagadīśa: ...newspaper there were pictures only.
Brahmānanda: So do you have the clippings?
Jagadīśa: Yeah, it's posted.
Prabhupāda: Every house, however poor he may be...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is not possible that he has seen all the bones. That is not possible. So taking it that he has studied by seeing the bones, but I can say very easily that it is not possible for a person like you to see all the bones. That is my challenge. How you can say that you have seen all the bones? You say, "Millions and millions of years ago..." You live for fifty years. How you have seen all the bones? That is imperfect. You are a limited person. How it is possible that you have seen all the bones? What is the answer?
Satsvarūpa: They say they haven't found all the bones, but what they've found is conclusive evidence.
Prabhupāda: But then you cannot do that. If you have seen all the bones, then you can conclude. You say, "Some of the missing." So how it is fact? You did not see it.
Satsvarūpa: Just this year they found a skull that was millions of years older than any human skull they found before.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, you cannot say that you have seen all the skulls. That is not possible.
Devotee: They will say they have not even found one skull from the Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: Oh. No, Vedic culture do not keep skull, they burn it. Therefore there is no opportunity for you to see the Vedic culture. Then you become defective. Because you cannot see the skulls of Vedic culture. We burn it. So therefore your conclusion is defective.
Harikeśa: So the only bones they find are the bones of the fifth, sixth, seventh-class men.
Prabhupāda: They must create confusion because he is a foolish man. He is interpreting on the words of God. He is not a devotee. He has got other purposes as a politician or something else. So he wants to push on his views through Bhagavad-gītā. That is a cheating process. If he wants to speak something, he can write separate book. Why he should go through Bhagavad-gītā? That is cheating. But he knows, "Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book. If I push my philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, it will be very easily accepted." That is going on. That is cheating. Why should you interpret? Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mād-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee." And the scholar says, "No, no, it is not necessary to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa person." This is going on, big scholar.
Father: Thank you very much, Your Grace. If I ask these questions, I'll take all your time.
Sandy Nixon: If you... May I ask one question more? I would like you to tell us that I can put in our article here if you have one sentence, one paragraph, that you would like to say to the world, (laughter) what would you say?
Jayatīrtha: She wants to put a message to the world.
Sandy Nixon: In capsule.
Prabhupāda: So? What I have to do? (laughter)
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, more pictures of rats and pigeons than human beings. In the modern textbooks of psychology you find more pictures of rats and pigeons than human beings.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Dharmādhyakṣa: Because they feel that they can study the behavior of rats and pigeons very easily, much more easily than a human being. They can manipulate them. And then they extrapolate from their data on the rats and pigeons as to what human behavior is.
Prabhupāda: So, but they say that except man, there is no soul?
Jayatīrtha: But now they say that no one has a soul.
Dharmādhyakṣa: No, the modern psychological definition is that man is a flesh and blood organism and that you can know man by studying his bodily processes.
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you give life to the flesh and blood?
Dharmādhyakṣa: That is a problem.
Prabhupāda: Then it is foolishness.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, definitely.
Bahulāśva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.
Prabhupāda: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think.
Prabhupāda: "Cheerful attitude." If cows know. They have got intelligence that "We will be killed." Therefore they are not supplying sufficient milk. They cannot, just like if your mind is full of anxiety, you cannot work fully. So because they are denied this cheerfulness, you are getting less milk. If you keep them cheerful, they will give more milk. This is nature's economic development. Artificially you cannot increase the production of milk. But according to the instruction of scripture, if you keep them cheerful without any fear, they will deliver double milk. So therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that cows should be protected in the human society. If you want to eat meat, you can kill insignificant, small animal, but don't kill cows. There are other animals-hogs, pigs, goats, lambs or birds, so many, fish—if you are at all interested in meat-eating; but don't kill cow. Find out this verse from Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Those who are vaiśyas... Economic development... Vaiśya means economic development. They should produce ample food grains and give protection to the cows. Just like our Kṛṣṇa's life, His foster father was a vaiśya. So he is keeping so many hundred thousands of cows, and Kṛṣṇa was entrusted to take charge of the calves, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So although They were very rich father's son, still They were taking the calves in the forest for tending in childhood. Still... You have seen in Māyāpur? The small children, they are taking care very nicely of the cows. After all, it is animal. The small child has got a stick, and he has been trained up how to allow them to graze. They have done. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... But that is very nice, that economic development means you produce more food grains and more milk. Then it will solve all posit... There will be no scarcity of food or happiness. Our, these Kṛṣṇa society young boys and girls, they have prepared so many nice things from milk. It is nutritious, very palatable, every..., everything. And we take food grains, fruits, milk preparation, that's all. That is very easily available. You can get enough fruits if you cultivate trees and plants. That is recommended in Bhagavad-gītā. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). What I have given, purport of that verse?
Prabhupāda: You want me to speak? I can speak. Shall I speak? Yesterday in San Diego one press representative met me. So I told that America is advanced in material civilization, all comforts of bodily concept of life. But why the American young men are becoming hippies and crazy. Yesterday, I saw, some of the girls came almost naked. So why they are dissatisfied in spite of so much material advancement? They have got enough food, enough shelter, enough clothing, enough cars and everything. There is no scarcity. Why they are disappointed? Can you answer, why they are disappointed? It means they requires spiritual fulfillment of desire. That is the nature. When in the primitive stage of life, a man is concerned about the bodily comforts. And when one is advanced or satisfied—not satisfied; advanced—in our bodily concept of life, the next question is about spiritual life. So America is in that point, specially. So unless you fulfill their spiritual needs, they will remain in such disturbing condition. So I compared it just like there are many zeros: one zero, two zero, three zero, or hundreds and millions of zero. All these zeros together—the value is zero. But if there is one, then one and zero, it makes 10. The ten times of one value increases. Another zero, it is hundred. Another zero, it is thousand. Similarly, this material advancement of America, if it is added with God consciousness, then the value will increase. Otherwise, it will remain zero. You may advance materially as far as possible. but if you don't take God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the value of all this material advancement is equal to zero. Nobody will be satisfied. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be taken very seriously. It is the finishing touch of American advancement of material comforts. Then people will be very happy, and America is already leader of the world. They will be first-class leader. The world will be benefited, and you will be benefited. And my endeavor will be also successful. Don't keep yourself in zero. Take the one. Then it will be very nice. Just like... You can understand very easily. This life, very important man, but if there is no spirit soul, it is zero. It has no value. However an important man may be, when the spirit soul is out of the body, it is a lump of matter; it has no value. Anything you take—this machine, that machine, any machine—if somebody, some spiritual being, some living being is not tackling it, what is the value? No value. Therefore, everywhere this spiritual consciousness must be there. Otherwise it is zero.
Prabhupāda: This is one sugarcane each? No. Two, three?
Nityānanda: Yes, at least three. People here in the country, they have lots of land, and they can grow the sugarcane very easily, but they will rather go to the store to buy the sugar.
Prabhupāda: Because they want to live in the city. That is the... Here if they grow, then they will be engaged here. They cannot go to the city.
Brahmānanda: They grow cash crops, make money, and then go spend it in the city.
Nityānanda: The principal livelihood of our neighbors is to grow cows for slaughter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is all over Western countries.
Nityānanda: They don't have to work. They simply put some cows in their field, and when the price is high, they sell them. In this way they live.
Brahmānanda: What is the attitude of the neighbors to us here? They like us?
Nityānanda: Pretty friendly.
Brahmānanda: There's a papaya.
Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save others who are in the darkness. It is not a profession: "Now, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is my profession. I'm getting very easily food and shelter." Just like the Indians, they are doing, a profession, say another means of livelihood. Not like that. It is for para-upakāra, actually benefiting the others. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased: "Oh, he is trying." 'Cause Kṛṣṇa personally comes for doing this benefit to the people, and if you do, then how much Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Then? Just like I am traveling in my centers, and if I see that my students, my men are doing very nice, everything is going nice, how much pleased I will be, that I'll save my labors and now write books for the rest of my time. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa sees that you are, on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, you are trying to save these rascals, then He'll be very (indistinct) with you. They are rascals. The leaders are rascals and the followers are rascals and they're all going to hell. Nature's law is very strict. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).
Prabhupāda: Well, this is want of knowledge, jñānam.
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
If one is engaged in the devotional service of Vasudeva, then he immediately becomes vairāgī—no attachment for material things—and knowledge. But most of these rascals, they are nondevotees. The so-called mahanta, he is not mahanta-mohāndha: "great blind." So that is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to bring everyone to the stage of devotional service to Vāsudeva. Then it will be all right. Other platform will never be successful. Simply show. It is not fact. (break) ...also take it very easily that "I haven't got to do anything. My Guru Mahārāja is there. He will do everything. I can do whatever I like." The Christians are doing like that, that "Jesus Christ will suffer. We indulge in sinful activities. That's all." This is their policy. It is perhaps in our movement only that each and every individual is being trained up. Others they do not do that. "I have made a guru; then my business is finished. Now I can do whatever I like." (To dogs barking:) Hut!
Passerby: Max! Max! Come here. Come on, buddy.
Prabhupāda: Good friends. (laughter)
Harikeśa: Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! Hut! (break)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...eḥ?
Viśvakarma: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Only fuel. They are called fuel. They are meant for using as fuel. (break)
Viśvakarma: ...Ontario, Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is known as the fruit belt, in this area. But now they are ripping up all the orchards and putting in factories.
Prabhupāda: Whatever they do, they do it for factories so that people may be exploited very easily. (break)
Indian Man (2): ...like your company very much in Toronto and we feel like talk you so much, but we don't have so much time to talk with you. You have so much mercy, so we have not... know so much about Kṛṣṇa from you.
Prabhupāda: So in my absence you read the books. What I talk, I have written in the books. That's all.
Indian Man (2): Personally, we think more greater.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, you can associate with me by reading my books.
Indian Man (2): I am reading books Prabhupāda. That books are your very, very good and most blessful to us. It is the biggest good will upon whole of universe at present, I think. By that knowledge, from dog to, I have become... I feel like I have something in my property of your books in my home. That's the only property I feel that I have, this one. I was misled, misguided in this country.
Bhāgavata: Also that other man approached, that farm person?
Jayapatāka: Of course, that... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...self-independent, or self dependent.
Bhāgavata: If we build up enough trade, tourist trade, like that in the guesthouse, then Māyāpur can maintain itself very easily.
Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?
Indian man: A small park.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a lot of parks of this type.
Prabhupāda: There was no... We don't require all these things because we know others are victims. They pay for it. And they work hard for the money and pay to work. That's all. Our men never touch this Coca-cola and cigarette, but others, they are mad after it.
Brahmānanda: They say they have to work so hard to get food, but actually they are working hard for this.
Prabhupāda: He'll get food. Food they can grow very easily, but they... Anartha. This is called anartha. Anartha means unnecessarily. Ādau śraddh tata sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriy tato 'nartha-nivṛtti syāt. So anartha-nivṛtti civilization, not anartha increasing. Civilization means anartha-nivṛtti syāt because we are complicated by the anarthas, unwanted things. (break) ...this way there is bulls, horses for transport. But what is the use of these big, big motorbuses and acquire petrol, machine, factory, so many things? But nature's way there is already means of transport. The horses are there. The bulls are there. But they will eat them, and they will create these motor big, big buses and then petrol, then fight. (baby birds making sounds.)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They also want to join the saṅkīrtana movement.
Prabhupāda: They are dependent on mother, by nature dependent. Similarly, you should be dependent on the original source of emanation. This is nature. Why they are with the mother?
Cyavana: Without the mother they cannot survive.
Prabhupāda: No, without, they can survive; still, they are dependent.
Prabhupāda: "Yes, you'll understand. Please kindly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa now. You'll understand." When we say, "Follow the instruction of Caitanya," means chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. What Caitanya said? Caitanya said, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ: (CC Adi 17.31) "Always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. So you'll know Caitanya, what He is, later on. For the time being, Caitanya says that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You do it, and then you will be able very easily. At the present moment, simply if you want to know—I explain Caitanya—it will be not possible for you. Better chant. Take His instruction. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... Where they are going? To work?
Girl devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the time for their joining?
Indian man (2): Between six-thirty and seven o'clock.
Prabhupāda: And how long they'll work?
Indian man (2): They will work up to twelve, one o'clock. Then they go home. Then they come back again at four o'clock and...
Prabhupāda: That is Indian. In India also the servant like that. Then remains up to nine o'clock.
Indian man (2): But those who are far away, they go at six o'clock. (break)
Jñāna: But if the devotees, if they go and live in small groups amongst the people, for example, in the country instead of just in big city temples, then we can influence more people, get more people chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Good idea. But whether you will be able to live? Better go from the city to the interior, come back.
Cyavana: To remain there for long is difficult.
Indian man (2): 1959 or '60 the price was ninety-six rupees.
Dr. Patel: Then suddenly it rose. Now, because Americans are buying gold, the gold standard has been left out. They have taken, cornered the gold of the whole world. But I have heard that the Russians have got some gold mountains on the surface. They can take out gold very easily from there. Here you have to dig up deep down.
Prabhupāda: No, in South Africa there is gold. In the city there are so many gold mines in South Africa.
Dr. Patel: Yes. South Africa is today supplying more than half of the world gold. Our mines are getting exhausted in Kolar(?) and all this, Mysore State. America, they have not been able to search out gold anywhere. Perhaps in South America they may be having some gold mines, but they have not made any survey. But the Russians, they say there are very huge mountains, gold on the surface.
Yaśomatīnandana: Sumeru is made of gold, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: Where is that located? (laughter)
Dr. Patel: In your mind.
Prabhupāda: No. Where is the sun located now?
Yaśomatīnandana: 93,000,000...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Sun. Sun. Where is located now?
| Page Title: | Very easily (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=75, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 75 |