Prabhupāda: Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate. This is from Upaniṣad. Parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate svabhaviki-jnana-bala-kriya ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). It is said that nobody is seeing... This is called research. You are accepting any nonsense as God, and they do not have any information from the..., that God means na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tasya samādhikaś ca dṛśyate: "God has nothing to do, no responsibility. Nobody is found greater than Him." So if this Vedic injunction is followed, if somebody is claiming, "I am God," we have to see whether he has nothing to do and whether nobody is greater than him. And these two tests will make him false immediately. He has to prove that nobody is greater than... Even contemporary... Suppose I am claiming I am God. So I have to show that at the present moment, throughout the whole world, apart from universe, nobody is greater than me. Then I am... Will these pretenders be able to show that nobody is greater than him? This is a simple test.
Vedic injunctions (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"injunction of the Vedic literatures"
|"injunction of the vedas"
|"injunctions of the Vedic literature"
|"injunctions of the vedas"
|"vedic injunction"
|"vedic injunctions"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No that is, that is...
Allen Ginsberg: No, here is a special problem.
Prabhupāda: That is, that is, I mean to say, misunderstanding. Authority we have to. The child has to accept authority. Always ask mother what is this father, what is this...? Why? That is the beginning: ask, ask, ask. That is the way of acquiring knowledge. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa... The Vedic injunction is there, if you want to understand that science, you must to go to guru.
Allen Ginsberg: But do you understand your previous lives from the descriptions in authoritative texts, or from any introspective recollection...
Prabhupāda: No, we have to corroborate.
Allen Ginsberg: ...of your own?
Prabhupāda: Corroborate. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41). One who could not finish this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he gets birth in two places, either in very rich family, or in a very pure brāhmaṇa family, brahminical cultured family. So from my life I experience, when I was very little child six or seven years old, I was very much fond of Kṛṣṇa. And I got the opportunity of this two things. Although my father was not very rich, but he was pure Vaiṣṇava. He was great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Not always these people. Not all. (Hindi) We have created this problem. (Hindi) (break) You'll get your bread, bara, and somebody will fill up your belly. (Hindi) It is not possible. (Hindi)
- nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām
- eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān
- (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)
These are Vedic injunctions. You know all this; then why don't you believe in this? (break) (Hindi) So it is coming? (Hindi) (break) We must have faith. Adau śraddhā (Hindi) You should be prepared even there is difficulty. Just like when I took sannyāsa I gave up my family life. In the beginning there was so much difficulty. I was living alone. But I never cared for it. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (6): Swamiji, suppose one wants to become life member... They can't pay whole money in one charge. They want to pay in installments.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. We shall accept. Oh, yes.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because it is the thing required. Therefore it is recommended in the śāstra. Because it is recommended that... What is recommended in the śāstra, spoken in the śāstra, that is perfect. There is no mistake. Therefore it is being accepted. Anywhere we are going, beginning from old man to child, everyone chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is recommended. Our intelligence should be applied there, that what is recommended in the Vedas, that is perfect. There are so many instances. Just like cow dung. You know cow dung? Stool of the cow? So according to Vedic principle, if you touch stool of an animal you become impure. Even my stool, I pass in the WC, and immediately I wash and become purified. Oh, this is my stool, personal, and what to speak of other stool? So stool is impure. But the Vedas say that the stool of cow is pure. So if you argue that "Cow is an animal. So animal stool is impure. How the cow stool can become pure?" that is puzzling, but because it is said by the..., ordered by the Vedas, it is fact. You analyze cow stool; you find all antiseptic matter. So therefore we accept the Vedic injunction as truth. We haven't got to make research. We save time.
Prabhupāda: You can know directly that "He is doing better than me." What is the difficulty? I can see... Just like all my disciples, they are following me. Why? Because they understand that "Our spiritual master explains about God better than us." Therefore they are surrendering. I am not bribing them. They are not fools. They have got very nice brain to act. So they accept me as the spiritual master brain because they understand it that "He can explain about God better than me." Where is the difficulty? These, all my disciples, surrenders unto me because they have found in me a better brain in explaining what is God. Direct perception. There is no question of indirect understanding. It is direct understanding. And the Vedas also advises that "Go to a better man," śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), "one who heard better and wise from the Vedic knowledge, and brahma, as a result of it he has become fully devoted to Kṛṣṇa," brahma-niṣṭham. These are the qualifications of spiritual master. His knowledge is perfect according to the Vedic injunction, and by having that knowledge he has become a perfect devotee of the Lord. These two things are to be seen. Then he is a spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference. Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, Lord Jesus Christ was Kṛṣṇa incarnation, but they were preaching to a different type of people. Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business. So that is their fault. Their own buddhi business, then simply criticize "How he is acting." Find out some fault. Just like Lord Buddha was criticized by the Vedic brāhmaṇas, "Oh, you are stopping animal sacrifice? It is already in the Vedas. Because it is sacrifice, the animal is also sacrificed, so how you can stop animal sacrifice?" But Lord Buddha, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam. In the Vedas there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, but he began to deride. So his business was to deride the Vedic principles, that "I do not care for these Vedas." Therefore Buddha's religion was not accepted in India. He criticized. He criticized the Vedic principles. In the Vedic principles there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, and he criticized, "This is not good. Don't do this." Therefore it is criticism. Vedic injunction should be accepted as it is. You cannot criticize. Then there is no Vedic authority. So therefore he defied Vedic authorities. As such, he was not accepted, strictly followers of the Vedas. But he has got a different purpose. The ordinary man cannot understand. But one who is devotee, he knows that why he has done this. Therefore they offer their obeisances, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. A devotee does not accept the philosophy of Buddha but accepts him as incarnation of Lord Kṛṣṇa and offers obeisances. This is our position. We offer obeisances to Lord Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. This is our study of knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Well, intermarriage, that has introduced according to the social system. But so far we are concerned, we are allowing intermarriage from any country, any... If he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, we help him marry. There are so many intermarriages in our society. So try to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and spread it so that there will be oneness—one God, one scripture, one nation, one religion—according to Vedic injunction. Not that we are manufacturing something. That is the Vedic injunction.
Guest (2): What is the speciality of Vedic injunction compared to Hebrew scriptures?
Prabhupāda: Vedic injunction is, the ultimate goal of human life, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. This is not... As... I have already explained that this is not our home, material world. We are spirit soul. Our real home is spiritual world. So in the lives, different species of life, 8,400,000's of species of life, they cannot understand it, that we are spirit soul, our home is in the spiritual world. They cannot understand it. That opportunity is available in this human form of life. Therefore if we don't take advantage of this information and prepare ourself accordingly, then we are losing the opportunity. Tad api aphala-janma. Anāśrita govinda-caraṇa-dvayam.(?)
Prabhupāda: That, that we'll have to find, find later on. First of all the principle should be accepted that unless we hear from the perfect person, our knowledge is imperfect. First of all you have to agree to this point. Therefore you are going to your schools, colleges, universities, because at home who could learn everything? So why you are going to school, colleges and universities? That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that in order to know that perfect knowledge, one has to approach the proper person, who is know as guru.
Guest (1): That's what I was getting at.
Guest (2): (aside) Could I ask a couple of questions now?
Devotee: Please. Yes.
Guest (2): Swami, please, I don't want to interrupt. I want to try and ask you a few questions (indistinct). I'm with (indistinct). Swami, what do you think accounts for the..., your popularity, popularity of the..., the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement sweeping America?
Prabhupāda: Because it is not due to my personality. I am presenting the truth as it is. It will appeal. Just like if you prepare some foodstuff with nice ingredients, it will be appealing to everyone, and if you prepare something obnoxious, it may be appealing to a certain section, not to all.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, what they can do? Because they're rascal, foolish, just like children, they'll simply make their body dirty. That's all. He does not know anything. If you bring a small children, what they will do? They'll take this... You see. he does not know anything. He's a rascal. Similarly you scientists, you are all rascals. You do not know anything. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, making research. What research you can do? You do not know anything. What research you can do? And Vedic injunction is: yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you know the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known. But you do not know what is Absolute Truth. Therefore you are in ignorance. If you know one thing, then you... Just like you are talking. We are not official scientists or philosopher or anything. But why you are challenging, you are talking so boldly? Because we know one thing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we can say so boldly and challenge anyone. I'm not a D.A.C. like you. How I can challenge you? I'm challenging you. How? Because I know Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the statement of Veda. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, then all other things will be known automatically. It is such a thing. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, challenging all kinds of men in the society, so many scientists are coming, so many psychologists coming. So how we are confident to talk with him? Because we have learned little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is it not? You are a qualified scientist. Why I challenge you? Not that because you are my disciple, you are accepting all my challenges. You have got your reasons. You are not a fool. So how it is possible? Practically, how it is possible? Because we are trying to know little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore this Vedic injunction, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. These statements are there. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you will not hanker after any more profit. Bas. All profit is there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābham. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then all other kinds of profit, you'll not hanker after. And what kind of profit this is? Yasmin sthito na duḥkhena guruṇāpi vicālyate (Bg. 6.20-23). If one is situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the greatest calamity of this world, he'll not be disturbed. This is the greatest profit. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. A big giant, Hiraṇyakaśipu, is putting him always in difficulty, but he's confident: "Yes, there is Kṛṣṇa." A five years old boy. He's not at all disturbed. Father is giving poison. "All right, give me poison."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but how about the one who picks up and he doesn't find the owner of the coins but he offers to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, he must find out. Because there are so many men, some of them must have lost that. So so far Kṛṣṇa's property is concerned, everyone knows, "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." There is no need of finding out. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Just like everyone knows, "This is American state." Where is the difficulty to find out? That was an example, but so far things are concerned, we know that, as we know that this land belongs to the American state, similarly this is false. Actually, everything belongs to God. There is no difficulty to understand. You have not created this ocean. You have not created this land. You have created nothing. You are simply stealing. That is your business. So how you do not know that it belongs to God? Everyone should know. This is knowledge. If I create something, I must enjoy it. Rather, the Vedic injunction is that you do not enjoy anything which you cannot create. You do not enjoy anything which you cannot create.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot enjoy anything. You have to accept everything as prasādam. First of all you take sanction from the proprietor. Then you he will give... That is your business. Just like if I want to use this land, I have to take permission from the government, that "I want this land. Give me permission." So when government gives you permission you can use. Otherwise you will be criminal. You cannot say, "Oh, there are so much land, let me encircle it with my fence and I live there." No. Immediately criminal. You cannot do anything as you like with this ocean. Can you do? No you have to take permission from the government. Just like the fishing boats, they have got government permission. Otherwise they cannot. Therefore in the Īśopaniṣad it is said, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). Tena tyaktena. "When it is sanctioned, when it is given to you, then you enjoy." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. "Do not touch anyone's property." This is Vedic injunction. So if everything belongs to God, how you can touch it without His permission? But they are rascals. They do not know who is God, where is God, how to take permission. They do not know. Therefore they become criminals. They are suffering. Encroaching upon God's property and therefore they are suffering. All these things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything belongs to God, and because we are sons of God, we can use the father's property. But not more than what I require. Just like in a family everything is father's property, and if you eat more, all the good things in the family, that is not allowed.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, people will criticize like that. People are becoming advanced. How long you can cheat them with so-called science, so-called religion? Now you take up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously. He will give real thing. Try to understand. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, everything will be known to you. This is the process. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā—you know everything. You know everything. And that is the Vedic injunction, Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati: "By knowing Kṛṣṇa only, you know everything." That science you try to understand and preach; people will be happy. Now, our question was that we say that the man... I say man. Other living entities, they are also living entities. So in Christian religion also, they say, "The man is made after God." Is it not?
Paramahaṁsa: "In the image of God."
Umāpati: The most ideal image of a human being is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Vedic injunction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So you take a perfect man. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you take a perfect man, take him as man, you see that He is God. He has got all the perfections. Even if you take him as a man.
Paramahaṁsa: No competition.
Prabhupāda: No competition. That is Bhagavān. Bhagavān means... We are giving this definition. Bhagavān means a perfect man. That's all. Now, just like man wants to wife, to have wife. So why there is, what is called, adulteration? He wants more than one wife. Just see, perfect Kṛṣṇa, He has got sixteen thousand wives, which you cannot imagine. Here is perfection. You cannot say that a man has no inclination to have more than one wife. That is there. So that propensity is, in perfection, is there in Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is God.
Krishna Tiwari: How does say that in your process, anybody has been made happy?
Prabhupāda: Everyone who follows Vedic injunctions, they're happy.
Devotee (1): You ask me.
Krishna Tiwari: You ask me. I'm very happy.
Prabhupāda: But you are happy with imperfect knowledge.
Krishna Tiwari: Oh, no. (laughing) Again it's the same thing.
Prabhupāda: You said, you said... No. You are happy with your imperfect education of an animal.
Krishna Tiwari: Everybody is.
Prabhupāda: Imperfect knowledge and happiness.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you try to pour water to each leaf of the tree, it will be simply waste of time. Similarly, God is the root of everything. Our Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Absolute Truth, wherefrom everything has come. So if we love the root, God, then we can love others. Otherwise not possible. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. They have tried. The so-called humanitarian work they have tried. Unity and fraternity and so on, big, big words. But it has not come to... Because there is no love of Godhead, it has failed. Even the United Nations. Central point is missing. So our Vedic injunction is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That system of religion is perfect which teaches how to love God." It doesn't matter, Christian religion, Hindu religion, Mohammedan religion, it doesn't matter. But God minus, this is the present position. Everyone wants to make minus God everything. This is going on. They have no clear idea. If I want to love you, I must have a clear idea of you. On vague idea, I cannot love. But they have no clear idea what is God. So how they can love God? And because they have failed to love God, all the so-called love, humanitarian, philanthropic works and, you know, they have become useless.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore our Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tad-vijñānārtham, in order to clear the doubt, to be in perfect knowledge, one must approach the authorized bona fide spiritual master.
Mr. Wadell: Can we go back to the physician. It is possible for a physician to be wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are always in wrong because we are born ignorant. Everything is wrong because ignorant, foolish. Madman's conception. This is all wrong, childish. Therefore we send our boys, children, to school, to correct the wrong ideas.
Mr. Wadell: But some of the teachers may not be correct.
Prabhupāda: No. The process is you have to go to the teacher. But if the teacher is a cheater, then the whole thing is spoiled. A teacher must be teacher, perfect teacher. But if he happens to be a cheater then the whole thing is spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Then you say that..., you say, "I know."
Mr. Wadell: But when I do not know something then I admit that I do not know it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That admission, that's all right. But in that case, one should not take the post of the teacher. That is our Vedic injunction. One must know perfectly.
Mr. Wadell: You may well be right. (laughter) But actually, I think there are many things which, about which knowledge is changing. There are things...
Prabhupāda: That means cheating.
Mr. Wadell: I see you have here, certain bits of equipment which didn't exist...
Prabhupāda: That is described in the Vedic literature: andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "A blind man is trying to lead other blind men."
Prabhupāda: So to remain dependent on God is our healthy state. As soon as we declare independent of God, that is our unhealthy state. This is our philosophy. And your philosophy also. To remain there. That is the Vedic injunction, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference between God and ourself? God is also a living entity like us, but He's the chief living entity. He's maintaining all others. Therefore we have to ask God, "Give us our daily bread." He's the maintainer; we are maintained. Just like in a family, the father is the maintainer, and the mother and the children and the servants, they are maintained, similarly the whole universe, whole creation, it is maintained by God, and we living entities, within this universe or within this creation, we are maintained. So as we are maintained, it is better to remain dependent on God than to declare our freedom.
Prabhupāda: The one thing is they take it. Others will not take it. That is the difference. If... There is a picture; my Guru Mahārāja has..., one man has fallen in a deep well, and he's crying "Save me!" So another man dropped a rope, that "You catch it. I shall carry you." Then he'll not catch it. Then how he can be drawn. So... (break) ...mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). "There is nothing more superior than Me." We are preaching the same thing, that "You are searching after God. You are, some of you are disgusted that 'There is no God,' but here is God. You take His name. You take His address. You take His daily activities. Everything is there." And that is our mission. And we started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in 1966. So when I registered this society, somebody suggested that "Why not make it 'God consciousness?' " And no, I want to give definitely what is God. God, they have got different conception. But here is God. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). That is the Vedic injunction. "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." And when He was present, He proved it, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So we have not introduced any new system of religion. That is not a fact. We have simply placed, administered, the same thing which was spoken five thousand years ago. That's all.
David Lawrence: I feel that students need to be able to see that somebody who is God conscious can really, really enjoy life.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Certainly. That is life. This is not life. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Life means with high qualities. So one who is not God conscious, they cannot have any good qualities. It is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. He's simply hovering on the mental plane. Asati dhāvato bahiḥ. And he has to come to these non-permanent things, material things. Asati. Asati mā sad gama. The Vedic injunction is, "Don't stick to this asat. Try to come to the sat, eternal." Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are the... "Don't remain in the darkness. Come to the light."
David Lawrence: That was one track on George's record which really, really got through to our boys, I think. "Light, is it? Light of the World."
Śyāmasundara: "Light, there is, Light of the World." (?)
David Lawrence: Really...
Prabhupāda: So his record has become very successful.
Lord Brockway: I think the only thing I'd say is this, that whilst the body that you have and I have is different from the body, the material body, when we were a child, it has been a continuous transformation. It hasn't been the ending of one body and the beginning of another. And in the process of change, a, an existence is carried on. It isn't like death, which means that at that point your personality becomes separated from your physical body suddenly, like that. It is different.
Prabhupāda: No. We become separated from the physical body, but we remain in the astral body, or subtle body, mind, intelligence... mind, intelligence and ego. That mind, material mind, material intelligence, you give up when you actually remain in your spiritual body. So this is also a great science. But unfortunately, there is no discussion on this point in any university of the world. But this is a science. So actual human civilization means they should study, they should inquire about this science and be well conversant. And that is the human... Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said that human beings should be interested to this science first. Because animals cannot inquire about this science. The animals, they are simply interested how to eat. So similarly, if a man also simply interested in economic development which means how to eat, how to sleep... That is also there in the animal kingdom. They are trying in their own way. But they have no problem. We have created problem. In the morning, we are thinking, "How to get such and such thing?" But a bird, beast, he has no such anxiety. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that you cannot get more or less. That is already destined. So don't spoil your time in getting more. Because... The example is given that nobody wants unhappiness, or some disaster. But the disaster comes, unhappiness comes. We have experience in our life. Nobody tries for that: "Let disaster come upon me. Let there be fire in my house." No. But the fire takes place. So similarly, because you are destined to some unhappiness and happiness, that will come, either happiness or unhappiness. You don't bother for that. There is already program, according to the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). You save your time. You simply try how to get out of this dangerous position of repetition of birth and death and go back to home, back to Godhead. That should be your endeavor.
Lord Brockway: And you, you may easily have a person who is very God conscious, beautiful in their own lives, beautiful to all the group around them, who have no understanding of the problems of the world at all.
Prabhupāda: That is not perfect God conscious. That is partial. Perfect consciousness means full understanding also. That is perfect God consciousness. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). This is the Vedic injunction. If you understand only God, then you understand everything. But if he does not understand everything rightly, that means he's not fully understanding God. This is the... If, as you say, that a man is fully God conscious, but he cannot do this, cannot do that, that means his understanding of God consciousness is still lacking. It is not full understanding. A full understanding of God consciousness means he's a perfect man. He's a perfect man. He'll never commit anything mistake. Because he's guided. Teṣām... What is that? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam... Find out. A God conscious person is getting direct instruction from God. How it can be defective? It cannot be. Practical. But if one is defective, he's not yet fully God conscious.
Prabhupāda: But one thing...
Revatīnandana: Why they cannot understand?
Prabhupāda: Mister, yes... I forgot your name.
Popworth: John.
Prabhupāda: John, Mr. John. That we follow strictly the Vedic injunctions, and unless we become God conscious, there cannot be any reformation in this world.
Popworth: I agree with that.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And that God consciousness cannot be achieved without being pure. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). God is the supreme pure. You cannot approach God, you cannot understand God, in impure condition. And without God consciousness, there cannot be any purification. You try to understand this simple fact, that without God consciousness, you may prescribe so many things—they will be all failure, all failure. And God consciousness cannot be achieved without being pure. This is the problem. Now you can think over it.
Prabhupāda: Unless we accept the real leader, a perfect personality who can give us perfect knowledge, there is no success. That is our philosophy.
tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet,
- samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
- (MU 1.2.12)
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
We have to approach a person who has seen the truth in reality. Then our life is success. That is the Vedic injunction. And that is fact. Unless we are... Just like you are teacher, a professor. So therefore people are coming to you to learn. How can you say that he can follow his own philosophy? He's coming to school, college. He's taking lesson from the teacher. One has to follow. The selection may be right or wrong; that is another thing. But one has to select.
Prabhupāda: Ah, two parāṭās.
Ambassador: Because you have done it so well.
Prabhupāda: Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam. That is the Vedic injunction. Even it is brought from distant place, even it is dried up, even it is touched by the untouchable, still it should be taken immediately.
Ambassador: Yes, that's true...
Prabhupāda: Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam.
Ambassador: Remember how Kṛṣṇa received Sudāmā?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Ambassador: When he brought the...?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when someone is sick, he willingly goes to the doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): So...
Prabhupāda: That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva... (MU 1.2.12). Therefore these rascals should go to a bona fide guru.
Devotee (2): So how we can get them to willingly come...
Prabhupāda: Ah?
Devotee (2): ...to the guru?
Prabhupāda: Just like if you are diseased, you are suffering the pains, so naturally you shall be inclined how to reduce the pain, how to get out of...
Devotee (2): But the scientists...
Prabhupāda: But these rascals, even though are suffering three kinds of pains, tri-tāpa-yatna. Just like why you are covered? Because there is pain. Severe cold, similarly severe heat. So we are suffering, either summer season or winter season. We are suffering, tri-tāpa-yatna. There is suffering from our mind, from our body—this is natural suffering. There is bodily suffering, mental suffering, then suffering caused by other living entities. So we are always suffering. But still they're thinking that "We are happy." The disease is already there. Ah? Just like the Arabian do not want to give you petrol. That means there's suffering caused by other nations. So this is going on. They're simply trying to settle up. But the suffering is there. But they're not in their knowledge, that in spite of all their endeavors, the sufferings are there. What is the cause? Then whom shall I go to ask why the suffering is there? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you must approach a person who knows how the suffering should be mitigated.
Professor: I have no answer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, our speculative knowledge, intellectual platform, is not helpful. We must receive knowledge from superior source, perfect source. That knowledge is perfect. Just like we give, generally this example, that to find out who is my father, my search out, research, will not help me, but if my mother says, "Here is your father," that is perfect knowledge because she's authority. Therefore, for perfect knowledge, we have to take it from the perfect authority, not by our speculative intellectual gymnasium. No, that will not help. Because our intellectual jurisdiction is very limited. That is Vedic process. Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process. Vedic knowledge is to receive knowledge by descending process, knowledge coming from authority. That, that you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Knowledge has to be received... Just like a child receives knowledge... He is inquisitive: "Mother, what is this? Father, what is this?" And mother informs him, "My dear child, this is is. This is this." So he is acquiring knowledge by descending process. And if the child wants to get knowledge independently, that is not knowledge. He'll touch the fire. Mother: "Don't touch, don't touch, my dear child!" But he does not know. He's thinking the fire as something eatable. So by the Vedic process, this experimental knowledge is no useful. Yes. The Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to receive perfect knowledge, you must have approach the guru." Guru means who has the perfect knowledge. So you cannot independently get perfect knowledge, intellectual. That will remain always imperfect. So intellectually, how you can conceive about God, who is unlimited, beyond your sense perception? We cannot know even ordinary material things, how great the sun is, how this universe is. We have imperfect knowledge. So our process is to receive knowledge from the perfect.
Prabhupāda: No good man will say like that. That is the difference between good man and bad man. The same example as I told, that one blind man is going this side, and another man says, "Yes, you are all right. Go this side." This is going on. Either he does not know, this rascal who says, "Yes, you can go this side," that he will fall down in the ocean and die... Both of them do not know. So one blind man, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is giving direction to another blind man. This is going on. Therefore Vedic injunction is to take direction: "You must go to guru." That is in... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Gurum eva, "Must go." Then he will get right direction. Otherwise misguided. (break)
Candanācārya: ...there must have been very many gurus. Were there many gurus then?
Prabhupāda: When? Guru or... First of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru. You are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody, that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka.
Girirāja: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: So he was asking. Very intelligent boy, he was asking, "What is this? What is...?" So I also explained, "This man is going to marry." So in this way, after, "Father, you were married?" He asked me. So this nonsense question is there. He does not know, "Without marriage, how I am come into existence?" So these questions are like that, childish questions. It has no meaning. (break) ...the Vedic injunctions is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach guru. Guru means heavy, who knows perfectly. You must go there to learn. And actually it is happening. Why the children are sent to school? When he becomes educated, the same eyes, same hands, same legs, same body, but he becomes educated. What is the different between educated and not educated? Because he has heard from authorities. That's all. This is education. Without going to school, he is not considered to be educated. Why? Because he did not hear from the authorities. Therefore he is uneducated. Let him learn everything. He has got the eyes. He has got the senses. Why he is sent to school? Why? Tell me, why? He has got the eyes. Why he is sent to school for education?
Devotee: To hear from the authority.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hanumān: So I am half asleep.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... Therefore Vedas says, uttiṣṭhata. "Get up, get up, get up!" Jāgṛta. "Become awakened." Prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. "Now you have got the opportunity. Utilize it." This is Vedic injunction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgṛta prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. This is Vedic in... Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are Vedic injunctions. So we are preaching the same thing, that "Reality is here, Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain in this darkness. Come to this consciousness." That is our preaching. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. (break) ...experienced the sunshine, bright day, and this gloomy day. So when you are in darkness, we must have to admit, "There is light." Because darkness means absence of light. So as we are in the darkness of this material existence, there must be something life of light. That is spiritual world. That is reality. (break) ...ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I don't belong to this darkness, darkness atmosphere. I belong to the light atmosphere." That is self-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Some, there is some... There is some reason. But they have no such thing. So therefore they are advanced. They have no such anxiety. You are less than animal.
Guest (1): No, that's right Swamiji, but what my question is...
Prabhupāda: That is... First answer is this, that you are bothered for increased population, but the animals are not. Therefore they are more advanced than you. They know that there is no botheration. Because in the Vedic injunction it is said, eko yo bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Now, there are millions of elephants in Africa. Who is feeding them? Who is feeding them? They eat at one time one mound. Where the food is coming from? Why you are bothered? You'll take only one chaṭāka. That means you are godless. You do not know who is supplying your food. You are less than animal. That is my answer.
Jayapatākā: Human life is no special advantage. Only if you come, the spiritual master comes, then it can be some advantage.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Vedic injunction is gurum eva abhigacchet: "You must go to a bona fide spiritual master if you want to make your life perfect." There is no question whether I shall go or not. "You must!" That is the beginning of human life. Otherwise animal life. He has no spiritual master. He's not going to obey anyone. He's working in his own whims. That is animal life. Real life here begins.
- tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet
- samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham
- (MU 1.2.12)
This is the Vedic injunction. You cannot do anything without abiding the orders of spiritual master. That is surrender. How nice water it is. (break) And there are many thousands, you'll find. And we are thinking, "Oh, if I go away, who will feed my son? Who will feed my daughter?" He'll never think that "If so many animals are fed by the Supreme," eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "He's supplying all the necessity why not for me or for my other children?" It is māyā that one thinks that "Without me...," Just like Gandhi was thinking. Unless he was killed... He was always thinking, "Without me, India will be spoiled." India will be spoiled. It was spoiled. Therefore you wanted sva-rājya... And after his death, it is also spoiled. So India's karma will have to suffer, either Gandhi's there or not there. Prakṛteḥ kriya... Prakṛteḥ: Everything is being done by the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ, by, dictated by different modes of nature. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) The rascal, being bewildered by, he's thinking, "Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director!" So I requested Gandhi, "Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll be killed. That's all. This is the way. Going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya. The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That's all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That's a fact.
Dr. Patel: No, he has... I mean, delivered. I was not able to understand for many years this one. Ūrdhva-mūlam... (break) ...and this illusionary shadow.
Prabhupāda: This is maintained by Vedic injunction. Just like people are very much attached to fruitive activities. They are attached to that. They do not want to go beyond. The karmīs. Karmīs, their whole ambition is how to go to these heavenly planets. He does not know that what is the benefit of going to the heavenly planets? He does not know. Therefore he is amazed by the chandāṁsi, Vedic chandāṁsi. Yām imāṁ puṣpitāṁ vācam, veda-vādinaḥ. So they are especially attached to these Vedic...
Chandobhai: Injunctions of action.
Prabhupāda: Fruitive activities. They do not accept this: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). They'll not. "No, no. We shall go to..." Just like these rascals are going to the Candraloka. Candraloka. (laughter) Now other rascals supporting them: "Oh, now we are..." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But therefore you cannot decry the Vedas.
Indian man (4): But this is not Veda, you see? If you kill an animal and sacrifice in the way of...
Prabhupāda: That is Vedic injunction. Sacrifice is done...
Indian man (4): This is tantra, not Veda. Vedas don't want. And there used to be animal living again after killing it...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Indian man (4): Are you able to do it?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Indian man (4): So this is tantra. He wants to decry the tantra, not Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
O'Grady: And so, rather than present the kind of answers that one could present if one was trained in oneself originally... And one who is first of all trained, then one has to untrain oneself, and then one trains oneself from that experience basically. This is my way of seeing it. And then one tries to help others through this course with the same process. Do you think that we should tell them more directly, or... Well, the basic question is how to handle the problem of modern education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our Vedic process is... There are so many questions, as you have already explained. Somebody thinks, "Why I have come here? And what is the purpose? What you are?" So many questions. Questions should be answered by the perfect. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to take answers of all these questions one must approach the bona fide spiritual master."
O'Grady: One must...?
Prabhupāda: Approach the bona fide spiritual master.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Approach.
O'Grady: The bona fide spiritual master. If you have none, what do you do?
Prabhupāda: No, there is.
Prabhupāda: Therefore cow is specially recommended, go-rakṣya, because very important animal to the society. If those who are meat-eaters, they can eat the hogs and dogs, they can eat. The Vedic injunction is not prohibiting them. If you actually... Actually, a human being does not require to eat meat. He has got many other substitutes. But still, if he wants to eat, let him eat the less important animals. Just like dog, hog. From the social point of view it has no utility. But why killing cows? It is delivering such a nice nutritious food, milk. Not only milk. According to Vedic system, the cow is so important, even the urine, even the stool, of cow is important.
C. Hennis: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So such an important... And besides that, from moral point of view, you are drinking the milk of cow, and after that you are sending to the slaughterhouse. Do you like to send your mother to the slaughterhouse? And the bull is giving you, producing your food. Nowadays they have invented tractor or engaging sometimes horse. But in India still, the bulls are engaged for tilling the ground, the field, and produces. So from moral sense, the bull is producing your food and the cow is giving milk to you; therefore father and mother. Just like father produces food for the children and the mother gives the milk. So if the human society has not this simple brain of understanding, then where is brain?
Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.
Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it. Otherwise, why you create? Why you take the responsibility of a family? For your enjoyment. Otherwise who takes care of the family? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He has created us, Kṛṣṇa's family. We also address Kṛṣṇa, "O Father, give us our daily bread." And He's actually giving us bread. Not only us, to all the living entities. So it is a big family, and Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. So we should all be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religious system which trains the followers to understand God and love Him. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir, ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). If somebody says, "Oh, it is a very great thing to understand God and to love Him," they are thinking it is not possible. No. The answer is ahaituky apratihatā. It can be learned by anyone. It is not checked by any material condition. If one wants to know what is God and to love Him, the path is open for everyone. It does not require high intelligence, high education, high culture. No. Anyone. The process is śravaṇam, the beginning. One has to hear. One may be fool number one, it doesn't matter. No education, it doesn't matter. Poor, doesn't matter. Black, doesn't matter. White, doesn't matter. You try to hear. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore, Vedic injunction is in order to know, go to the bona fide guru and hear. Ādau gurv-āśrayam, sad-dharma pṛcchāt. So even one has no experience, if he goes to the experienced man, experienced person, then you can understand and you can love God, and that is perfection of life.
Jyotirmayī: He says he's accepting some of the things you are saying, but he's doesn't think that he's obliged to accept everything.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Everything is emanation from God. That is our Vedānta-sūtra. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Whatever things are there... In the Bible, also there is... "Everything comes from Him, what is made." Yesterday, we were reading? Yes. So whatever is created, that is made out of God. And the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman, the Supreme Brahman." So the impersonal feature is an expansion of God's energy. Just like the sunshine is expansion of the energy of sun, so the sunshine is resting on the bodily rays of the sun-god. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The resting place of the impersonal Brahman is God, Kṛṣṇa. Find out this verse, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect. Then my experience is perfect. Just like a child does not know what is this. he asks his father, "What is this, father?" Father says, "My dear child, it is microphone." The child knows it, "microphone?" That knowledge is perfect, although his capacity is imperfect. A child is imperfect, but because he gets the knowledge from the perfect father who knows what it is, when he speaks "a microphone," he speaks rightly. This is perfect process of knowledge: You approach the perfect person and get knowledge, and that is your perfect experience. Personally, I may be, you may be, not perfect. But because I get the knowledge from the perfect, my knowledge is perfect. This is our process. We are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect.
Prabhupāda: No, not hidden but open because Absolute is not different from His name. Therefore when you chant the name of the Absolute that means you associate with the Absolute. And as soon as you associate with the Absolute you become purified.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Like iron in fire.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's right. (German) (break) ...Vedic injunction:
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
For your perfection you simply chant the name of the Lord harer nāma, harer. Harer means of the Lord and nāma means name. Thrice. Just like we give stress three times, "You do it. You do it. You do it." This is a good stress. Similarly, the śāstra says harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma, nāma eva kevalam, simply chant the Lord's name. Kalau, in this age of Kali. Nāsty eva, nāsty eva, nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other alternative for self-realization, no other alternative for self-realization, therefore stress should be given for everyone to chant the holy name of the Lord. (German) Kali means the age of quarrel, the age of quarrel. This age is simply for fighting and quarrel. They're not interested to understand the Absolute Truth. But they're interested in fighting and quarreling. Therefore this age called Kali. Kali means fighting.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor: But I would say that even in India, where ancient tradition... They would propose how to arrange our telescopes to be able to see more correctly.
Prabhupāda: You have to see... That... Vedic injunction says, śāstra-cakśuṣā. Śāstra-cakśuṣā: "Your eyes should be the śāstra." There is another crude example. Just like who is your father? How do you understand? Through the vibration of the mother. The mother says, "He is your father." You accept it. Otherwise there is no experiment. So things which are beyond your perception, beyond your defective senses, that should not be speculated. Na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Acintyā khalv ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. These are the injunction. What is beyond your perception, beyond your speculation, don't waste your time so-called argument and logic. What is argument? Mother says, "He is your father." Where is the argument? You cannot apply any argument.
Hṛdayānanda: Can someone achieve self-realization without a guru or does he need a guru?
Prabhupāda: How do you think like that? Is there anything within this you world which can be learned without guru? Even if you become an ordinary carpenter, you have to learn from an expert carpenter. So how you can imagine to learn the topmost subject matter without guru? This is... The Vedic injunction is, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), samit-pāṇiḥ, like that. We must have a bona fide guru to train us in the understanding of spiritual matter. Guru means who knows the thing, who can teach you. That is guru, not a humbug guru, but guru means one who knows. Tattva-darśinaḥ, one who has seen the truth, he can become guru.
Prabhupāda: He asked him, that rascal chemist, that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" That time he said, "No, that I cannot say." Why do you say like that? In the beginning, in New York, that store front, the Satsvarūpa is with..., and Hayagrīva and... And you chant simply. You were also there. So this chanting is proving efficient. That is Vedic knowledge. It is not theory. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not theory or mental speculation. It is a fact. So therefore it is said,
guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya,
- ār nā koriho mane āśā **
So whatever little success I have got, it is only for this reason. My Guru Mahārāja said that "You go and preach whatever you learned in English language." That's all. So I came here with this faith, that "My Guru Mahārāja said. I must be successful." I did not show any jugglery to you, gold-making jugglery. Where is my gold? I came with forty rupees first. (chuckles) So these are Vedic instruction, guru-mukha-padma-vākya **, and:
śrī-guru-caraṇe rati, ei se uttama-gati
That is real progress. So this is Vedic instruction. We have to follow the Vedic injunction. Then you will be successful. Not these rascals' theory. It is useless.
Jayādvaita: Politics, economics.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayādvaita: Sociology.
Prabhupāda: Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you know Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. That is the Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa... In Bhagavad-gītā, it is also said that "There will be no more anything to understand." In the Ninth Chapter? What is that verse? Can anyone say?
Jayādvaita: The Fifteenth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Avaśiṣyate. Jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. You cannot...?
Santoṣa: Yaj jñātvā...
Prabhupāda: ...cannot recite, the whole verse?
Santoṣa: Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj.
Prabhupāda: That is the second line.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they have done. Sir Jagadish Candra Bose in Calcutta, Bose Institute, he has proved—he has got machine—that they feel pains and pleasure, which is recorded in the machine. If you pluck one leaf, they feel. Immediately it is recorded in the machine.
Guest (2): Could I come back to that eating of meat? Related to this alive, soul, matter. Aren't you in a sense eating another soul too if you're eating vegetables? Not only if you're eating meat?
Prabhupāda: No, the thing is, the material world... It is said, jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: "One living entity has to eat another living entity to keep himself alive." That is the natural law. But you should have discrimination. Because you have to eat some other living entity, it does not mean that you will eat your own son. You cannot support that "Because I have to live by eating another living entity, so what is the wrong if I eat my son?" Therefore the Vedic injunction is tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). You are given some jurisdiction. You can eat. And actually you do so. Because I have to eat something, we do not eat anything and everything. We have got discrimination. So according to Bhagavad-gītā... Find out this verse, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati.
Prabhupāda: Then everybody may be mad. That does not change the fact. If some madman comes in this room and he fights, "I am the proprietor. You get out," so that is not the fact.
Guest 1: I understand, you know you were talking about the sea and so on. But it's for people to use.
Prabhupāda: Use, you can use. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). That is the Vedic injunction. What is given to you, you use it. Just like one gentleman has got five sons. He gives one son, "This is your property. This is your property. This you can use." But the sons must acknowledge that "This is father's property. He has given us." Similarly, in the Vedic śāstra it is said that "Everything belongs to God, and whatever He has given to you, you can use. Don't encroach upon others."
Guest 1: But if He has given... You were saying that if He's given something to you and don't encroach upon others, but there are certain things that one person has or one group of persons have which, I think, truly can be said that...
Prabhupāda: And originally we have to accept. Everything belongs to God. Just like father and sons. The son must know, "The property is father's." That is the real knowledge. Now, "Whatever father has given me, I will use it. Why shall I encroach upon others, my other brother, which he has got from the father?" This is good sense. "Why shall I fight with my other brother? My father has given him this property to him, so let him use that, and whatever he has given me, let me use it. Why shall I encroach upon his property?" This is good sense.
Prabhupāda: Because they are animal. They are educated like animal.
Australian devotee 2: So it is the fault of the education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is the responsibility of the government, guardians, father. They do not give them proper education. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "If you cannot give proper education to your children, then don't marry. Don't become father." That is contraceptive. If you are unable to give... What is that? Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. Samupeta-mṛtyum: this body means you have accepted death. This body means, material body. So one should not become a father if he cannot stop the death of his son. That is the Vedic injunction. "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot train your children so that he may be saved from this impending death." That is the instruction. And who is doing that? Their philosophy is: "After death everything is finished. I will be finished. My child will be finished. That's all."
Prabhupāda: That means they do not know Kṛṣṇa means everything. That they do not know.
Bahulāśva: And big professors are saying that just by reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you can learn everything. All the knowledge is given in there.
Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything.
Dr. Gerson: My observation of the children here has been that they've been very happy and that they're very involved in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: At least, they can make this distinction, that our children is not smoking. (laughter)
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And all the school children, they are smoking. So why don't you find this distinction?
Revatīnandana: Not only smoking, but they're smoking drugs in the school.
Prabhupāda: I have seen children, on the street they are smoking. I was surprised. When I came in America I saw small children, they were smoking.
Prabhupāda: But we don't follow that process. We follow one standard knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is our distinction between the ordinary scholars and our... And we are on the safe side because we don't manufacture, speculate. That is troublesome. If I have to defeat you, then I will have to speak so many things. I will have to find out the device how can I defeat you. But we have got one standard knowledge. I may be fool, rascal, but we repeat Kṛṣṇa. So our method is very easy. We are challenging everyone. Just like there are many scientific disciples. So I am not a science man. I have never studied science. But scientists, they are becoming my disciple. From material point of view, I have no education in science, but why the scientist is becoming my disciple? Is he becoming fool? After taking his doctorate title, he is becoming fool so that he is accepting me as spiritual master? Therefore the Vedic injunction is correct when it says, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātam bhavanti. "If you know Kṛṣṇa perfectly well, then you know everything well." That is the Vedic injunction. So unless you know Kṛṣṇa well, your knowledge is imperfect. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So there are different departmental knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. All departmental knowledge, when they come to the understanding of Kṛṣṇa, then it is perfect. So long he does not come to Kṛṣṇa, he is imperfect.
Prabhupāda: By taking lesson from professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. You have to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, willing. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take. Therefore it is the duty of the human being, how to control the mind, not act like cats and dogs. That is human being. He should be inquisitive, "Why this happening? Why this happening?" and he should take education. That is human life. And if he does not inquire, if he does not take education, then what is the difference between him and the dog? He remains a dog. He has got this opportunity of human life. He should take advantage of understanding what is what, not to keep himself in the dog status, simply eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending. That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to understand this science, then go to proper guru and take lessons from him. The same thing, as we instruct our children: "If you want to be educated in higher status of life, go to school, go to college, take lesson." That is human society. The dog's father will never ask the dog child, "Go to school." No. They are dogs.
Dr. John Mize: How does the mind, then, come to know that there is a soul?
Prabhupāda: That I say, that you have to educated. How these people are convinced about the soul? They have been educated by practice and by knowledge. Everything has to be learned by being educated. And therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārtham, "In order to know that science," gurum eva abhigacchet, "you must go to guru, teacher." So the answer is that you must go to the teacher who can teach you how the soul is there.
Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda, the professor asked what is the relationship with the soul and the mind?
Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position. Therefore those who are under treatment, they must be strict observation—he may not do something wrong so that treatment may be hampered.
Prabhupāda: So we can describe. (break) Let them take it. If they cannot describe, then take the description from us. We can give. That is knowledge. Nīcād apy uttamā vidyā strī-ratnaṁ duṣkulād api. Why they should hesitate, "No, no, why shall I take from him? He is a Hindu." Or "He is a Muslim." What is this? Knowledge has to be taken wherever it is available.
Bahulāśva: In the Bible it says that no one has ever seen God.
Prabhupāda: But then why don't you go who has seen God? Why remain foolish? That is the Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you do not know, if you have not seen, then go to guru. Why should I sit idle, "I have not seen; I will never see"? Is that knowledge? Go there where you can see. That is intelligence. "Nobody has seen. Therefore there is no use of seeing." What is this argument? This is no argument.
Bahulāśva: They also say that no one can ever be pure, that everyone is doomed to be a sinner.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Ātmavat manyate jagat. That is the conditioned soul's qualification that if he is a fool, he thinks other, fools. Everyone, he thinks, "He is like me." That is nature. Ātmavat manyate jagat. "Everyone thinks others like himself." If he is a fool, he thinks all are. So these things are no argument. Nobody has seen God? How do you take the statistics? Can you say like that, any statistics, that nobody has... Maybe you have not seen him, one who has seen God. That is quite possible because you have not scrutinizingly studied all the men of the world. Then how you can say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen the man who has seen Him. He will not admit his fault. He will accuse others, "Nobody has seen God." Why? You may not have seen, but why you say, "Nobody has seen"? You have not seen that person who has seen God. Therefore you say like that.
Prabhupāda: Just like north of Sweden, there is no sunrise?
Brahmānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: So where is bright side? Where is bright side? Vedic injunction is tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't remain in this darkness; go to the bright world." Jyotir gama. (break) ...to create some bright side. He will not be allowed to enjoy it. He will have to die. So where is your bright side? (break) ...for preparing?
Brahmānanda: For the moon? 25 billion dollars.
Prabhupāda: So again I am trying to go another planet. Where is the guarantee that it will be successful?
Brahmānanda: On the contrary, if they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being. Again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.
Prabhupāda: No, soul never mixes with the matter. Now I have come here, I am not mixed up with this jungle.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it looks like it...
Prabhupāda: It looks like. That is another thing. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The Vedic injunction is" "The puruṣa, the soul, is never complicated or mixed up with this." Because just like oil and water, it never mixes. The oil keeps its separate identity in water.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But if you put in a body, though they cannot be mixed, but they can stay together. Like in a chemical laboratory we take a test tube. In the test tube I can mix two solutions like, for example, mercury and water and oil. They will not mix, but they will stay in the same test tube. But a man who knows about the art of separating those three mixtures can do it very nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, soul does not mix with the matter and by this art, transcendental knowledge, you can become out of it.
Prabhupāda: That... You are rascal. How you will know? You come to my feet; then you will know. (laughter)
Brahmānanda: To your feet or to your boot.
Prabhupāda: Yes, provided there is boot. Yes. Therefore there is a Vedic injunction, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "Because you are fool, rascal, you must approach a guru." That is the way. Sa gurum eva, eva, "certainly," abhigacchet, "must go." Otherwise there is no possibility. You remain as foolish forever and suffer.
Yogeśvara: There is one German historian named Frederick Engels.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is another foolish. (laughter) I can...
Yogeśvara: He wrote against Vedic culture by saying that even the brāhmaṇas of Vedic culture were not responsible because the culture failed. It ended at a certain period in history. It was simply exploitation of the workers under the guise of religion. That was his argument.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, their proposition is "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but not in this temple." "Don't go to the temple." That is their proposition.
Dr. Patel: They have theorized that just to oppose Islam. I don't think they meant much about it.
Prabhupāda: What they have done? Simply hallucination.
Dr. Patel: They believe more in the Vedic scriptures and Vedic injunctions than other things.
Prabhupāda: And all the ācāryas, they are fools.
Dr. Patel: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Then they have meant that...
Dr. Patel: They don't believe in these Purāṇas. That is a misfortune for them.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why?
Dr. Patel: That is a misfortune.
Prabhupāda: Not only that. They write Satya-artha-prakāśa. That means they have understood the real meaning, and all the ācāryas, they are fools. That is their intelligence, satya-artha-prakāśa, that so long there was no satyārtha; now they have invented satyārtha. This is their intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Then you must first of all rectify your karma. Then talk. Past karma, you have got this body. Therefore you must rectify your karma. Karmano 'pi bodhavyam akarmana. You must know what is karma, what is akarma, what is vikarma. That is knowledge. If you remain blind about your karma and by nature's way you get different body, then what is your knowledge? Just like if you go to a doctor, he says that "Due to this infection, you have got this disease," so you know it so that in future you will be very careful. That is knowledge." I do not know why I have got this disease, and still, I do not know what further it is going on"—that is ignorance. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. To remain in ignorance, that is the greatest sin. Tamasi ma: "Don't remain in darkness." That is Vedic injunction, "Enlighten yourself." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." But where is your light, you do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Karmīs say, "Ignorance is bliss."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice. Yes. That is dog's bliss.
Yaśomatīnandana: Then we say that, this verse, that...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna that "If you know that you are not this body, then even if you kill all these people, then you are not affected by the reaction."
Prabhupāda: But kill by Kṛṣṇa's order, not whimsically.
Dr. Patel: Brahma-bandhu.
Prabhupāda: ...but without education, without qualification, he wants to become a brāhmaṇa. They are called brahma-bandhu or dvija-bandhu. So Mahābhārata is meant for the, these persons: stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhunam. They cannot understand directly the Vedic injunctions; therefore it is simplified in a history. Mahābhārata is the history. History and stories, ordinary people, they can read with interest. But those who are advanced, they want higher philosophical thoughts. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). It is meant for higher class. So there are different literatures for different persons. Why there are eighteen Purāṇas, sattvic, rajasic, tamasic? Those who are tamasic, for them it is advised...
Dr. Patel: Devī Purāṇa.
Harikeśa: So faith in knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge means received from the superior. Like the child gets knowledge from the father. That kind of faith is required. If the child does not believe the statement of father and mother, he cannot make any progress. If the child does not believe the statement of mother, he does not know who is his father. So there must be faith, faith in the right person. Then it is all right. If you have got faith in the person who has got eyes to lead you, then he will help you to cross the road. And if you put your faith to another blind man like you, then it will cause disaster. Faith is required, but to the right person. Then it will be all right. You know that one barber is honest: then you can make your neck like this and he is with a sharpened razor. But you have faith that "He will not cut my throat; he will shave me." This is faith. And if you do not know him and if you put your neck like this and if he is a rogue, he will cut your throat. That's all. The same faith, if you put it to the right person, you become cleansed, shaved, and the same faith put in the wrong person—your throat is cut off. So you must know where to put the faith. So our Vedic injunction is: "Put your faith to the brahma-nistam, one who is God-realized." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-paniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭam: (MU 1.2.12) "One who has full knowledge in the Vedas and firmly fixed up in Brahman, God, you put your faith there." Otherwise there will be disaster. Right faith. (break) ...you call Prabhakara?
Tejās: I called him on the phone.
Akṣayānanda: So actually, perfect kings, they may have eaten meat? Perfect kings...
Prabhupāda: No, perfect king must follow the Vedic injunction.
Akṣayānanda: They would never eat meat, even though they are kṣatriyas.
Prabhupāda: No, kṣatriyas are allowed. That is by hunting, not otherwise. Or yajña. Everything is there in the śāstra. (break) ...candra, even He was eating meat, is there any instance in the temple Rāmacandra is offered meat? Then why do you claim, "Rāmacandra used to eat meat, therefore I shall eat"? All rascals. Kṛṣṇa, He ate fire, khāṇḍava-dāna. But what He asked you to offer? Does He says that "You offer Me fire"? He says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Does He say that "You give Me fire. I shall eat"?
Akṣayānanda: You mean He eats fire in His representation as the fire-god?
Prabhupāda: No representation. As He is. He never assumed as fire-god. He was boy and playing, and there was fire and He ate it. That is God, not that He became a fire-god. What is fire-god? Thousands of fire-gods are staying on the nail of His feet. Why He should become a fire-god? Mahat-padam. Kṛṣṇa's another name is mahat-padam. The whole energy of material world is on His feet. Samāsrit ye pada-pallava-plava mahat-pada puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. So they attend maṅgala-arati?
Guṇārṇava: Yes.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Eh? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathenāsato dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has got all the good qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇaiḥ: "All good qualities can be manifest." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "And one who is not devotee, he has no good qualities." "Why? He is so educated." No, mano-rathena: "He is hovering over the mind." Asāto dhāvato bahiḥ: "He will stick to this asat." But the Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. He cannot go to the real platform of life. Asato bahiḥ. They do not understand that this godless civilization is the root cause of all calamities in the world. (Hindi) Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. The Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ. Twenty-four hours you have to do that. But where is twenty-four hours? You will not twenty-four minutes.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you be intelligent. You're learning from your spiritual master. ...gurum eva abhigacchet. Therefore one must approach a guru to learn everything rightly. This is Vedic injunction. Tat tvaṁ puruṣam eva, ācāryopāsanam. Read Bhagavad-gītā. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Ācāryopāsanam. This process of knowledge is to worship ācārya. Who's got ācārya, he knows. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda.
Devotee (2): We're accused that when we take to some religious process, that it's a process of brainwashing.
Prabhupāda: It's not a question of religious process. You must know things are there. Religion is... Religion is that, because religion means to know the real law. That is religion. Not, religion does not mean sentiment. Religion means to know the real law. That is religion. If you do not know the definition of religion, this is it. Religion means to know the real law, how this world is going on, what is the law. That is religion. Religion is not a sentiment. They have made it a kind of faith. You may have some faith, but the law is different. So faith, a dogmatic faith is not religion. To know the real law, this is definition of religion. ...sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know that law, then everything is revealed to you. That is religion. Religion means not a blind rascal. Religion means he knows everything. That is religion. This is the Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Just like we are talking with so many philosophers. It does not mean that I'm scientist, philosopher, everything. No. We know one thing, Kṛṣṇa, immediately we can catch up what is the...
Hari-śauri: It's very surprising to people how we have such a wide scope of knowledge.
Devotee (3): So there's anxiety in all of the happiness in this world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Sanskrit) asad grahāt. Because they have accepted something which is not happiness, temporary, they're always full of anxiety. This is the nature. The bird flying, anxiety "Oh, so many men are coming." He's not in peace. He was eating something; as soon as he sees so many.... "Oh, away," flying. Anxiety. (Sanskrit) asad grahāt. Asat. Asat means temporary. The Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya: don't stay in asat. Go to the sat, which is permanent. Asato mā sad gamaya (indistinct) jyotir gamaya (indistinct). Don't remain in darkness, go to the light. (inaudible) Ordinarily they want danger (inaudible). The same Vedic.... Asato mā jyotir gamaya.
Devotee (2): (break) ...that they are satisfied with the knowledge that it's given in most religious books, because they say that...
Prabhupāda: Where is religious book?
Devotee (2): Bible.
Prabhupāda: All speculation. Claims only. Repeatedly religion means orders of God. If you do not know who is God.... If you do not know what is government, then what is government law?
Reporter: Others change.
Prabhupāda: Ah, others may deviate, that's another thing. But the system is not that. You cannot deviate from the Vedic injunction that if you have to follow the ācāryas, just like India is obeying. The mass population or the sane population, they are following the ācāryas. Ācāryas means great teachers, bona fide teachers—perhaps you have heard their name, just like Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. So they are followed, and they are of the same opinion. Millions of years ago, what was the opinion, and that opinion is still there. Ācchā, take for Bhagavad-gītā. And that is.... Not a single Indian who does not accept Bhagavad-gītā as authority. This is besides the foreigners who also take interest so much in Bhagavad-gītā. So far Indians are concerned, even some of the Muhammadans, so apart from Muhammadans, those who are claiming as Hindu, they all accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. So this Bhagavad-gītā, they might have changed, but that is not acceptable.
Prabhupāda: No. Ahh.... I...
Reporter: Well the Vedic scriptures say that.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, the Vedic scriptures...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...something different.
Prabhupāda: The thing is, that is practical. That scientifics statement given today, and after few days it is changed.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then if I say "What is the value of such statement if you change it?" That is my point. And so far Vedic injunctions are there, you don't change. What was given millions of years ago, that we carry.
Reporter: Thank you very much.
Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that when I am in tour in Europe and India, I completely forget about Los Angeles. I act according to the circumstances there. And again when I come to Los Angeles, I immediately remember. This is natural. Out of sight, out of mind.
Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we don't have to learn the activities of our spiritual body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are revived. Therefore the Vedic injunction is that now you have got this human form of body, you get up to your original position. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta varan nibodhata. This is the Vedic injunction. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Jīva jāgo jīva jāgo gauracanda bole kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. How long you'll sleep? Here is the opportunity. Try to understand yourself. That is self-realization. And go back to home, back to Godhead. Why you are struggling here? Kṛṣṇa is coming. He is also saying the same, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why you are rotting in this material world? So for spiritual awakening there are so many attempts by God Himself, by His devotees, by books, so many ways. But we are not inclined. That is our fault.
Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now there is distinction between two types of knowledge. If knowledge means understanding...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Any knowledge, if you want to get it, you must receive it from a superior person. That is the law. That I already explained. If you want to steal, if you want to become a thief, you have to learn it from an expert thief. So any knowledge. Knowledge means you have to learn it from a superior person. And what to speak of the knowledge of God. That is the ultimate knowledge. Yesterday we were speaking that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja learned how to make samosas. Now that knowledge is distributed. So every knowledge, you have to learn it from an expert. That is called guru. Guru means expert. Heavy. Who's knowledge is heavier than your scanty knowledge. You have to learn knowledge. Guru means heavy. Therefore Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You must. Abhigacchet, this word is used when the sense is "must." Not optional, that I may go or I may not go. No, you must. This is Vedic injunction.
Devotee (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if at this platform we are not yet..., we are still desiring to depart from Kṛṣṇa's service and enjoy, then we are not, we have not yet tasted devotional service, what is it that we have tasted that is keeping us temporarily connected to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic injunction: You keep yourself connected with Kṛṣṇa, then you will develop the taste. Just like a jaundice patient does not taste sugar as sweet, but if he continues to take sugar candy, then he will have the real taste for sugar candy, sweet, not bitter. So he has to continue to eat sugar candy continually. Śravaṇam, kīrtanam. Then he'll have the taste.
Prabhupāda: And that Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsaḥ. Now here Arjuna is experienced, "You are the Supreme Brahman." So he has seen the Supreme Brahman. So you make Arjuna guru, Kṛṣṇa guru. Arjuna is representative of Kṛṣṇa, friend of Kṛṣṇa. So why do you go to a bogus guru? You must be cheated. Guru is essential. It is necessary. But take the real guru. But if you go to the bogus guru, you must be disappointed. For your treatment you need to go to a physician. That's all. When you are diseased you cannot say, "No, no, I don't want to..." It is necessary. But go to the real physician. Don't go to a cheater. He has no knowledge in the medical science, and he places himself as "I am physician, MD." Then you'll be cheated. The guru is necessary, that's a fact. But go to the real guru. Who is real guru? Real guru is Kṛṣṇa or one who has seen Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna. Take them. Then you'll be benefitted. And if you go to a bogus man who does not know Kṛṣṇa, who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you must be cheated. So the answer is guru is absolute necessary. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic injunction, that one must go. But he must go to the real guru. And who is real guru? Who knows Kṛṣṇa. Take, for example, Arjuna, how he studied Kṛṣṇa. And he says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12).
Prabhupāda: Certainly.
- tapasā brahmacaryeṇa
- śamena damena va
- tyāgena sattva-śaucābhyāṁ
- yamena niyamena vā
- (SB 6.1.13)
To advance in spiritual life these things are essential, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting something which may be painful. Just like we are recommending no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating. So those who are accustomed to these bad habits, for them, in he beginning it may be a little difficult. But in spite of becoming difficult, one has to do it. That is called tapasya. To rise early in the morning, those who are not practiced, it is a little painful, but one has to do it. So this is called tapasya. So according to the Vedic injunction, there are some tapasyas that must be done. It is not, "I may do it or not do it." It must be done. Just like in the Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad it is ordered that one must go to the spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So there is no question of voluntarily, but it must be. And one must carry out by the order of a spiritual master and the order of the śāstra. That is called tapasya. Just like in our line ekādaśī is compulsory. One may feel some inconvenience fasting or simply eating fruits.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I heard. The beginning is minus one. That is imaginary; it is not fact. But they imagine something at the beginning.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In fact it is called imaginary number. Square root of minus one.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if mathematics begins with imaginary something, why not Absolute Truth? That Absolute Truth must be life. As Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He must be aware of everything. That means life. That means life. Now the question is how He became experienced? Svarāṭ, independent. Just like we require experience, knowledge, from somebody else. Experienced knowledge is not gained automatically, but the Absolute means that He is full of knowledge. How He got knowledge? Svarāṭ, independently. That is the description. You have to imagine at least like that. It is Vedic injunction, it is the fact, that Absolute Truth independently cognizant of everything. That is Absolute Truth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these are some of the axiomatic truths that are necessary steps in order to study this problem between life and...
Prabhupāda: In Bhagavad-gītā it is said bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) "One can understand Me through bhakti." And the Vedic injunction is that "If one knows Me, or knows the Absolute Truth, God, then he knows everything." Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If somehow or other one knows the Absolute Truth, then he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. That is the benefit of knowing the Absolute Truth. So a devotee knows everything. How it is possible? That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā,
- teṣām evānukampārtham
- aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
- nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho
- jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā
- (BG 10.11)
One may challenge, "How a person can know everything?" So Kṛṣṇa immediately replies that "I help him specifically." Teṣām evānukampārtham. "Just to show My personal, especial favor upon him, I light up the torch of knowledge, and he knows everything." So if Kṛṣṇa helps one to know everything, who can check it? That is not possible. This science must be there. We are not all-powerful. Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful means He can do everything.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you bring your imaginations, they'll bring their own imagination. "Perhaps," "It may be," they say
Rūpānuga: Our imagination is as good as your imagination.
Prabhupāda: We are to take the Vedic injunction axiomatic.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So how do we, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're talking about all these things, this time, and we just give our time scale from Brahmā, that's perfectly, that is on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Rūpānuga: We know from Bhāgavatam, it tells what creations went on during these periods, we can show the real creation of the universe, not that we care about their ideas. But these different Manus, there were different species created. Like Dakṣa recreated a time. From one Manu to the next the species were recreated again by him, we can show that in this chart.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But one problem that we're going to encounter, always though, this will come up, they will bring up this thing.
Rūpānuga: We just say your time starts only not long enough ago and ours goes back to the beginning of the day. We can criticize them that theirs does not go back far enough. What else can we say?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will fight.
Hari-śauri: You made a good point yesterday when you were seeing the slideshow that how can they possibly calculate a time like two million years or two billion years when they only live fifty or sixty years themselves? How can they possibly come up with a calculation like that?
Rūpānuga: To verify, scientific, they cannot measure it. But our information comes from persons who were living at those times. They lived, historical persons. We don't need some modern man who lives fifty years to tell us what happened fifty million years ago. We know someone who was there. That is our advantage.
Devotee: Jaya, thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)
Prabhupāda: Utilizer. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Extracts.
Rūpānuga: Extracts from.
Prabhupāda: Extracts.
Rūpānuga: Suppose like now, just like this Vedic injunction against artificial fertilizers in the soil, suppose, as modern farmers are doing, they use this artificial fertilizer and the soil becomes depleted in minerals.
Prabhupāda: That means artificial is the same principle. You are living entity; by artificial fertilizer you are exacting something from the earth, the same principle.
Rūpānuga: Now suppose we take so many chemicals from the earth and they may become a little depleted. Can those chemicals be replaced by the earth itself as the ongoing process of nature?
Prabhupāda: Everything is coming from the earth.
Bhūgarbha: He asks, What about the opposite, people becoming devotees without knowing anything? He asking...
Prabhupāda: No, devotee cannot be without knowing anything. A devotee means, a devotee means he knows everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. This is Vedic injunction. One who knows the Absolute, he knows everything.
Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? That verse, does that mean that one who is neophyte...
Prabhupāda: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikārī. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jñānī, he does not know. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. The so-called jñānī, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jñānī. His jñāna, his knowledge, is lacking.
Prabhupāda: No, that is wrong. You cannot interpret, you cannot change by resolution. That is not.
Dayānanda: Then they must have someone to tell them. Then they must have an authority.
Prabhupāda: It is already there, just like in the Bible.
Dayānanda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.
Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Spiritual, that I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... (break) (in room) If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rocks? Wherefrom the rock came?
Hari-śauri: Well, they say originally from gas.
Prabhupāda: Gas?
Hari-śauri: Gas.
Prabhupāda: So gas, without water, there cannot be gas.
Prabhupāda: Christian. So why the Christian go and, go to the father, "Give us our daily bread"? That means that you are dependent on father. How you can say independent?
Hari-śauri: But that's the point, that we have to grow up and become dependent on our own work.
Prabhupāda: No, the Vedic injunction is eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. God means He's supplying the necessities of all his sons. That is God. And that is practical. You are dependent. The animals, they are dependent on grass. So wherefrom the grass is coming? Why that land is deserted and this land is green place. Can you change it? Why you don't change the desert to be green? So if you think that "I'm living on animal, I don't care for grass," but the animal depending on grass, and the grass is depending on God's mercy. So how you can say you are not dependent on God? You are dependent. But because you are a rascal fraud, you want to cheat and become a Freud, that's all. You are a great fraud, therefore you're talking like that. You are dependent on God in every step. You cannot be independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra, find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: Then you are animal, because animal has no rationality. Then you are animal. Better not to talk with you. What is the use of talking with you? You are animal. You have no rationality. Man is rational animal, this is the definition. You have no rationality, therefore you are animal. What is the use of talking with you? Waste time. If you have no rationality, then you are animal. That is the difficulty. People are kept in the status of animal and they are expected human behavior. How it is possible? It is not possible. So therefore our endeavor is to bring them to the standard of humanity, real humanity. Then there will be peace, prosperity, everything all right. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You don't care for rationality, that means you are animal. Man is rational animal, that is the definition. If you have no rationality... Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ... This is Vedic injunction. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samāna. Anyone who has no religious principles, he's animal. Therefore you'll find in human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Iran or India or Europe, there is some religion. Because without religion they are animals. Animal has no religion. The animal is... Dog is dog. It is not a Christian dog or a Hindu dog. Hindu, Christian comes when they are human being. So a civilized society must be the rationality, religion. Religion is rationality, to accept God. What is religion? Religion means to accept God.
Interviewer (4): That is something inborn, isn't it? That scientists...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your inquisiti... You have got born inquisitiveness, jijñāsu, that is especially manifested in human form of life. So for jijñāsu it is recommended, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). You have to go to the proper person. So that we are not doing. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). These are the Vedic injunctions. Jijñāsu is our natural instinct, but we go to who has no knowledge. That is the difficulty. We are misled. But the knowledge is there already, the Vedic knowledge is there. There are so many Vedas, Upaniṣads, Vedānta-sūtra, and Bhagavad-gītā, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, but there is no systematic study of this literature. We are neglecting.
Interviewer (5): Swamiji, another doubt. In this mahā-mantra that you publicize, Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is Kṛṣṇa that is emphasized. (indistinct) emphasis His Bhāgavata and other things are popularized. Is it corresponding...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. If you have studied Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. If you accept it that this is supreme name of God, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. If you have studied Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. If you accept it that this is supreme name of God, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.
- harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
- kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
This is the Vedic injunction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. In the Bhāgavata it is said kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). These things are there. It is not a manufactured program. It is based on śāstra. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. These things are there. You have to accept some authority. If you don't accept authority, you speculate. That is your business, but we don't do. We accept the authority.
abhupāda: Akhila-rasāmṛta, yes. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So you can have all the rasas. That is the origin of bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. In bhakti, that rasa, you become in the ocean of rasa. You're hankering after rasas. There is a Vedic injunction, raso vai saḥ labdhvānandi ānandī.(?) One who has got the rasa, labdhvānandi, then he gets the real ānanda. That ānanda-cinmaya-rasa expansion is Kṛṣṇa's calves, cows, gopī friends, cowherd boy friends, Nanda, Yaśodāmāyi, so many. So to be Kṛṣṇa conscious means to participate with these rasas. It is not dry. It is not dry like, simply so 'ham, so'ham. So 'ham, they do not know the meaning. So 'ham means I belong to the same rasa. I also eligible to enjoy the same rasa. But Kṛṣṇa is... (break) ...and the calves, the cows are enjoying the rasa as predominated. Just like husband and wife, they are enjoying, both. But one is enjoying as the husband, predominator. The husband is forcefully dragging the wife. She's also... While she is dragged by force, she enjoys. That is another rasa. But there is rasa. Combined together it becomes rasa. Similarly Kṛṣṇa does not enjoy this material. This material rasa is the perverted reflection of that cinmaya-rasa. So we have to get ourselves nil of all these material rasas and we have to be situated in the cinmaya. Then our, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Then our life is perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rasa is there. Here perverted reflection. This perverted reflection... My Guru Mahārāja used to say to taste milk in white lime water. White lime water, it looks like milk. But it is not milk. It is different thing. Similarly, we are trying to taste the rasa of milk in lime water. Therefore we are baffled.
Gargamuni: No, because in India, many Indians, when they approach a guru, they want something. But we didn't have to approach you for anything.
Prabhupāda: That is the speciality. The guru... One should go to guru to serve him as menial servant. That is acceptance of guru. That is required. Nīcavat. Nīca, nīca means menial. Just like menial servant, he does everything. Similarly, to live with guru means to serve him as a menial servant. That is Vedic injunction. Nīcavat. You should not be puffed up, that "I am coming from such royal family, I am coming from such rich family." And that tendency is trained up from the childhood. A child does not know. Just like Pradyumna's son. You can engage him in any menial service. He does not discriminate. He's trained up. So this is gurukula. Very word is used, nīcavat. He gives service to the guru just like a menial servant. And this training being given from the childhood, he does not know what is low or what is high. His spiritual master asks to do something... Even Kṛṣṇa went to the forest to collect some dry wood. Vasudeva's son, in royal family, but he had to go. And all of a sudden there was storm and, what is called?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Lightning.
Maṇihāra: Thunder.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization. Then prasannātmā. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja said sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety. They have created United Nations, but where is the United Nation? The people go there with anxiety, that's all. And come back again with anxiety. Because their asad-grahāt remains. The Indian is thinking, "I am Indian, this body." And the American is thinking, "I am American," and the Pakistani is thinking, "I am Pakistani." So asad-graha is there. So how the anxiety will go away? But they do not know this. There is no education. They want to keep him... "Feel always that you are Indian," "Feel always that you are American." "You feel always you are Hindu," "Feel always you are Muslim." Asad-graha. How there can be no anxiety? Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. So asato mā sad gamaya. This is Vedic injunction. Don't remain on the asat platform. Come to the sat platform. Asato mā sad gamaya. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. Don't remain ignorant. But unfortunately people are so absorbed in asat things they do not know what is sat. They cannot go to the sat platform. They cannot go to the light platform. And they are struggling like that. No solution. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The government may change, but the men are the same, in darkness. What improvement will there be simply by changing government? The persons who are governing, they are in the darkness.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We should approach all these people and get them to take part in the petition.
Prabhupāda: That Bhavan's Journal, he did not dare to publish my statement. Everyone is combined to kill Kṛṣṇa. Everyone, all over the world. God... "There is no God," the scientists, these philosophers, the politicians, everyone. This is the only movement talking of God. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādī. Everywhere, impersonalists and zero. There is no God. The zero-vādīs, they are little frank but these rascals, nirviśeṣavādīs, God has no head, no tail, they are dangerous. Zero-vādīs, they call him zero, that's alright. That is, we can understand, they admit. But these rascals, zero, nirviśeṣavādīs, "Yes, there is God, but He has no head, he has no tail, he has no hand, he has no leg." Then what he has? They are greatest cheater. More dangerous than the śūnyavādīs. That is the version of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Vedinam mayima bhogda hoila nāstik, vedāśraya, nāstikavāda bhogda ki hodi. These Buddhists, they do not care for the Vedic injunction. We can understand. But these Śankarites they take shelter of the Vedas and they say, "There is no form of God." And that is being followed (by) the so-called Hindus. All the invitees in that meeting, Bajaj meeting, they are all nirviśeṣvādī.
Prabhupāda: The point is that... You can explain in this way, that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka planet which is far, far away from our planet, but still He is everywhere. That is the difference. That you cannot imagine. In our material knowledge you cannot imagine that. But that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: (BG 9.26) "Anyone offering Me in devotion patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, I eat." Now, Kṛṣṇa is living far, far away in the Goloka planet. How He can eat? That is your imagining. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I do." That is Kṛṣṇa. Although He is far, far away, He is within your heart. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That is your material knowledge. But you have to accept from the statement of śāstra that although He is far, far away, within your heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-para... He is within the atom also. So that you cannot imagine. That requires a different knowledge, Vedic knowledge. The material knowledge will not help you, but you cannot imagine. You have to accept Vedic knowledge. What is stated in the Vedas, that you have to accept. That's all. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot manufacture your knowledge. That is not... Because you are defective—your senses are imperfect—so whatever knowledge you get through your senses, that is all imperfect. You cannot get perfect knowledge by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn that transcendental science you have to approach a guru who knows it.
Prabhupāda: Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12).
Mr. Malhotra: Guru-vijñāna.
Prabhupāda: No. This is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet. Abhigacchet, this word is used. This means must, vidhilin.(?) This is the form of vidhilin, in grammar. Vidhilin is applied when there is no question of duality. You must. If you want to know that transcendental science, you must approach guru. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. And who is guru? Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyam. Śrotriyam means one who is guru by hearing from his guru, śrotriyam. This is paramparā. Not that all of a sudden he becomes guru. No. That is not guru. Guru means śrotriyam. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). And after hearing perfectly from his guru, he is brahma-niṣṭham. Just like Arjuna, after hearing from Kṛṣṇa, his guru, he became devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Not became. He was devotee. Still he became perfect devotee. Brahma-niṣṭham. This is the guru's qualification. And in another, the Bhāgavata it is said tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One must surrender to guru who is actually inquisitive, yes, about the Absolute Truth. What kind of inquisitive? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. The best aim of life or transcendental aim of life, he requires guru. Then what is guru's qualification? The next line is tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, śābde pare ca niṣṇātam (SB 11.3.21). Guru is completely in awareness of all the Vedic knowledge. That is guru. Not a loafer class. (laughter) Śrotriyam. One who has heard perfectly Vedas from his guru. And what is the symptom that he has heard from the authority or the...? Brahma-niṣṭham. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. The symptom is that he has completely taken shelter of the Supreme Brahman, rejecting or finishing all material desires. No more material desires. Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of Brahman, upaśama, rejecting, no more hankering after anything material.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Relation is there. Relation is there. Otherwise, how can I address him? Relation is there. So this form Hare, means Hara, is the potency of Hari. (break) Just like you are a gṛhastha. You have got your wife, you have got your maidservant. The maidservant is doing something, wife is doing something, but you have many potencies. The managing director is there, but he has got many assistants. Similarly, the Supreme Person has got multi-assistants, potencies. So they are all accepted as Hara, Hari's potencies. So we have to approach Hari through the potency: "O Hare. O the potency of the Lord. O Lord, be merciful." We cannot jump over the Lord without going through the potency. So those who are impersonalists, they cannot understand. But those who are intelligent, they can understand that God is person, He has got multi-potencies, and through the potencies He's working so nicely. This is Vedic injunction. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport).
Prabhupāda: What is that book? (break) Sarvātmana yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Factually Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate shelter. If he has taken that shelter, he's free, immune. And that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed here. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if he gives such a duty, he's liable to fall down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... "Because you are giving up all other duties, don't think that you'll be liable to punishment. I'll give you protection." So the conclusion is: if one is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he's obliged to do his duty. This is the easiest way to become free from all obligation—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, I think, duśyanta-rāja?
Pradyumna: Duśyanta-rāja. Duśyanta-rāja.
Prabhupāda: Or Santānu. Santānu. Santānu Mahārāja. He, in the presence of his elder brother, he became king. His elder brother left. So it was considered sinful. But he request his elder brother to come and take charge of the... He said, "No, I am not going." Then he took. Otherwise it was not in the proper order. Because Vedic injunction, that... (end)
Prabhupāda: Well, saṅga means execution. When you associate with medical association or sharebrokers' association, simply go there and sit down is not your business. You have to do something. You have to do something. Sat-saṅga means that. Tad-yoṣanāt aśu apavarga-vartmani. Sat-saṅga means you have to take the knowledge and use it for practical purpose. That is sat-saṅga. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the sat-saṅga, opening centers all over the world. If people take advantage of it they'll be benefited. But if he is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, then it is very unfortunate. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. The leaders also do not associate with sat, and they create their own imagination. Sat, oṁ tat sat. Bhagavān is the supreme sat. So they do not care for Bhagavān, so there is no sat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga.
- sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa
- te karaṇe lāgi more karma bandha phāṅsa
"I given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy asat." Asato mā sad gamaya. That is Vedic injunction. "But I do not care for sat-saṅga." Sat-saṅga chāḍi. You have to take up something after giving up something. So our present position is sat-saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. "I have given up sat-saṅga, and I am trying to enjoy in asat. The result is I am entangled in karma bandha phāṅsa. According to karma, I am changing my body, and today I am human being and tomorrow I am a dog. And again from dog to another body, another body." This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy.
Guest (2): No. Is there special significance during this period? That is all the time.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... The significance is sādhu-saṅga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like śaṅkha. Śaṅkha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the śaṅkha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this śaṅkha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it. Acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkena yojayet. Things... There are many things which is beyond your perception, so you have to accept the Vedic injunction. Then you are right. So if the Vedic injunction is: "In such and such moment you take a bath in the Ganges; you become purified," you take it. There is no question of argument. That is faith. Now faith must be there. Vedo-praṇihito dharmaḥ. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Everything is there. Can you find out this verse from the Sixth Canto?
Jagadīśa: I know the verse.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Hari-śauri: "This statement of Parīkṣit Mahārāja's was very much appreciated by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. The answer anticipates the abominable activities of the Māyāvādī impersonalists, who place themselves in the position of Kṛṣṇa and enjoy the company of young girls and women. The basic Vedic injunctions never allow a person to enjoy sex with any woman except one's own wife. Kṛṣṇa's appreciation of the gopīs appeared to be distinctly in violation of these rules. Mahārāja Parīkṣit understood the total situation from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, yet to further clear the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs in the rasa dance, he expressed his surprise. This is very important in order to check the unrestricted association with women by the prākṛta-sahajiyā. In his statement, Mahārāja Parīkṣit has used several important..."
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana this prākṛta-sahajiyā, they are making bhajana that a man, he thinks that "I am Kṛṣṇa"; another woman...
Guest (2): That is Rādhā.
Prabhupāda: "Rādhā." This rascaldom is going on.
Prabhupāda: And the so-called education, they are making devatā demons. We want to check it. The human being, he has got the opportunity. Human being is there to become a devatā. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is there, because he's coming from lower species of life, and they also admit they are coming from monkey. That's all right. But now make him man really. Where is that arrangement? You are keeping him monkey, jumping like monkey. That's all. So your, this so-called educational system, society, is good, or we are making the monkey to become to become devatā, this is good? What they will say? You have come from monkey, and now we are making them devatā. So this is a good process? Or you keep them as monkey, jumping like here and there, that is good? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the way to make a monkey to become a demigod, or devatā. This is the Vedic injunction. "Now you should make him, this monkey, person coming from monkey, or a monkey, make him a devatā." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has simplified: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You become devatā, Bas." What do you want more? Actually that is becoming. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and from monkey you become a devatā, demigod. What do you want, more? Therefore He's mahā-vadānyāvatāra, the most munificent incarnation, making monkey to devatā simply by chanting. See practically. Hm? Anyone protesting against this? (devotees laugh) Here is mother of our Jayapatākā Mahārāja. She is attracted, how the situation is nice. Now she wants to take instruction from her son as mother Devahūti took instructions from her son, Kapiladeva.
Prabhupāda: Because you have not been taught by proper teacher.
Mr. Koshi: That I accept.
Prabhupāda: That is not your fault. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic injunction. So therefore our brahmacārī system. First of all one becomes brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). These things are there. Everything is there and we don't take advantage of this knowledge. We are after becoming dogs, that's all.
Mr. Koshi: But there are several millions like me.
Prabhupāda: That does not mean... Several zeros does not mean one. Millions of zeros does not mean one. Zero is zero. If several millions of zeros, adding, you cannot make one. That is not possible. One is required. And if you want after zero, you go on. But if you are after one, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, then you are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Don't after these zeros. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the... If you are after zeros, that is your business. Kṛṣṇa says "Come after one."
Prabhupāda: To spiritual understanding in this age. Ecstasy. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). You have to follow the Vedic injunctions. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Utkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau.
Mr. Koshi: So by looking at him you are trying to rouse the interests of the people, or curiosity?
Prabhupāda: You can take interest in so many ways. If you are not interested in that way, read books. Are you not interested in reading books? Read. We have got many ways. That is for mass of people. The class of people who wants to understand this movement through science, philosophy, come on, read these books.
Mr. Koshi: One of the conditions is illicit sex.
Prabhupāda: That is sinful. Don't you see, illicit sex, what havoc it has done?
Mr. Koshi: What exactly do you mean?
Prabhupāda: Illicit sex, do you think it is...?
Mr. Koshi: Outside marriage, you mean?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not only outside marriage. Even in marriage, you cannot have sex as you like. You must have sex according to the regulative principle or religious principle.
Prabhupāda: You perceive according to the instruction of Gītā. Just like a child. He does not know how to use the senses. He is going to touch fire or something dangerous, to catch a snake. It is the duty of the father: "No, my dear child, don't do that. It is dangerous." You have to follow him. If you become "self"—"I am self alone"—then bother yourself. Our Vedic injunction is not "self." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to reform yourself, you must go to a proper guru. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham, not "I am self. All right."
Young man (4): Swamiji, if a man admits or comes to the conclusion that his mind is chaos...
Prabhupāda: Chaos?
Young man (4): In seeking to bring order into the chaos...
Prabhupāda: Mind's business is...
Young man (4): In seeking to bring order to this chaos, won't his natural path open before him? Won't he naturally come to spiritual sādhana?
Prabhupāda: They have also manufactured. (laughter) This is going on. So Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru is required to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, not for any material understanding. Material understanding, there are so many chemists, (sic:) physists and many other department of... When we speak of guru, it means beyond this material world. For that purpose we require guru. So... Just like now it is being very much advertised that "You execute meditation. Your mind will be strong. Your health will be strong." That means from material point. But keeping your health strong, the medical science is there and so many other thing. But people are taking advantage of this yoga system. The śāstra says that dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). He is yogi who is meditating and mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is material. Material things does not require... Maybe a gymnastic, muṣṭika.
| Page Title: | Vedic injunctions (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 19 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=108, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 108 |