Prabhupāda: So Śukadeva Gosvāmī was strictly following this, strictly following, completely independent. That is not possible at the present day. (chuckles) If we imitate, that will be not good. We have to depose(?). Our Gosvāmīs, they have prescribed yukta-vairāgya: accept everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is yukta-vairāgya. It is also vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya means simply renunciation without assimilation. Māyāvādī sect, Śaṅkara sect, they have got stringent laws for renunciation. But Vaiṣṇavas, they have no stringent law. They accept everything as Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, actually offering Kṛṣṇa, working for Kṛṣṇa, living for Kṛṣṇa. This is the best use. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "The best use of a bad bargain." Everything in Kṛṣṇa relationship. That is yukta-vairāgya. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Vairagya means detachment. So when we are attached to Kṛṣṇa, automatically we are detached to māyā. Not artificially we want to be detached from māyā. Just like theoretically I know that I am not this body, but the bodily necessities are there because I am encaged in the body. Therefore the bodily necessities-eating, sleeping, mating, defending-should be done in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is all right. Then my consciousness is always in Kṛṣṇa, and I am detached to my bodily demands. And those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, their bodily demands is on the materialistic platform. They are going on, increasing the degree of fever and coming to the 107 degree. You are also going tomorrow?
Vairagya (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gurudāsa: Subala Mahārāja was joking with me that I am wanting to preach, but instead I am thinking about steel and cement and bricks.
Prabhupāda: No. If that steel, cement, and bricks are meant for preaching, then it is all right. But if there is difficulty, then sometimes we become absorbed in steel-cement. Steel-cement is not bad, provided it is meant for preaching. That is also spiritual. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta-vairāgya. But because we are materialistic, sometimes steel and cement attracts us more than Kṛṣṇa. So this Bombay affair is giving me a little depression. Because so highly thought of, now these people they do not want to stay there. Just like this Mahaṁsa, Dinanātha, they do not wish to return. Something has to be done.
Gurudāsa: Actually it is not only one or two isolated cases.
Prabhupāda: There are many. I have studied all of them.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Detachment, when you'll understand that this is good, this is bad, naturally you'll have detachment for the bad. Unless you know this is good, this is bad, how there can be detachment? When you are offered two kinds of foodstuff, and if you know: "This is good, this is bad," then naturally you have detachment for the bad and pick up the good. First of all you have to know what is good and bad. Then, when you are convinced, naturally you know: "Oh, this should not be taken." Detached, automatically. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Therefore knowledge is first required for detachment. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā (SB 1.2.12). Jñāna, first of all knowledge, then detachment. unless you have knowledge, artificial detachment will not work. (pause)
Devotee: There are many that tell about knowledge for being good, but how do you really know? Is it just a feeling?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hmm? Knowledge means culture. Just like we were discussing. This is the process of knowledge: inquiry from right person and take the answer. That is knowledge. Just like a child takes knowledge from his father: "Father, what is this?" He gives knowledge. So you must inquire rightly from the right person. Then you get knowledge. This is the process of knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed. They began to see towards Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa, what to do?" "All right." He simply swallowed up the whole fire. This is inconceivable mystic power. That is God. Aiśvarya-vairāgya-yaśo-'vabhodha-vīrya-śriyā. These six opulences in full. That is God. That inconceivable power, inconceivable energy or mystic power, we have got also. Very minute quantity. So many things are going on within our body. We cannot explain. The same example. My nails are coming exactly in the form. Although it is spoiled by disease, again it is coming. I do not know what machinery is going on, and the nail is coming, exactly fitting the position and everything. That is coming from my body. So that is mystic power. Even it is mystic power for me and to the doctors, everyone... They cannot explain.
Prabhupāda: Simply for Kṛṣṇa, there is simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. Anything else-waste of time. But in Kṛṣṇa's connection there are varieties. Does it mean, although the dictaphone is there, still I shall write in my hand? Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot touch this. We don't follow this nonsense philosophy. Unnecessary vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya, dry knowledge.
Devotee (1): Śuṣka-vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: Śuṣka, śuṣka means dry. Oh, it is material, I shall not touch. I shall not touch. Just like that rascal, Ramakrishna, if anyone wanted to give him some money (gesture). (laughter) How, he does not touch money. These rascals, why shall I not touch? Come on, you have got money, George Harrison, spend. Yes, come on, I shall take it, for Kṛṣṇa. We haven't come to this house for living very comfortably and enjoying. No, we have come here for Kṛṣṇa's service.
Haṁsadūta: This point is revolutionary in spiritual circles.
Prabhupāda: Because it is Kṛṣṇa's property. It is not my property, neither George's property. This is mistake. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So it must be utilized for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But we see everything has got Kṛṣṇa connection. Therefore we utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. Just like you're talking about Kṛṣṇa, it is being recorded. So it is useful for Kṛṣṇa's service. Why should I give it up? Because the airplane is there, therefore my preaching has been easier. Every year I'm wandering all over the world, twice, thrice. Because if you use airplane. So why shall I give it up? It is giving me facility to preach my Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, why shall I give it up? It is mithyā. Just like the Jains, they do not ride on car, but if by going in a car I can go and preach, very swiftly, and come back again, why shall I give up this car? So our philosophy is not like that. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. It is yukta-vairāgya. We have no attachment for all these things. We are sitting in this palatial building, that's all right. But you can talk things under the tree. But if I sit down underneath a tree nobody will come to me. (everyone laughs) So why shall I do that? This is our philosophy.
- anāsaktasya viṣayān
- yathārham upayuñjataḥ
- nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe
- yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate
Yukta-vairāgya. After all, you have to practice vairāgya. Not under attachment. But in connection with Kṛṣṇa, nonattachment is required. Otherwise this nonattachment will not stay. Just like this, now you are talking of mithyā, how do they consider mithyā? Because this artificial nonattachment will not stay. Therefore, they say it is mithyā, but they are accepting it, under a different name—"Now let us start this school, now let us start this hospital..." They're coming to the mithyā platform, under some disguise of philanthropy activities. If it is mithyā why you are starting a school?
Reporter: Yes, yes. So detachment is there.
Prabhupāda: Detachment, that is required.
Reporter: Anāsakta.
Prabhupāda: Yes, detachment and jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya.
Reporter: Hm. The jñāna-vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: This is the real achievement of human life, that jñāna-vairāgya can be achieved simply by bhakti-yoga. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7). Ah? Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti yo... Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Just like these boys.
Reporter: Quick detachment.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Immediate...
Reporter: Instant, instant, āśu vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: Āśu vairāgya. They're attached to so many things. Now these young boys, they never ask me that "Give me some money; I shall go to the cinema, I shall smoke, I shall go to the club." They're all young men. Why? Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. They've kicked out all these things. Practically you can see.
Prabhupāda: They've kicked out all these things. Practically you can see.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Or if you ask them, "Let us go to cinema," they'll never go, even at your expense. (everyone laughs) This is vairāgya. They do not want anything except Kṛṣṇa. They do not want anything except Kṛṣṇa. These boys, young boys, from twenty to thirty years old, they've got to enjoy so many things, especially in this country, the Western countries. How they have given up? Jñāna-vairāgya. Janayaty āśu.
Reporter: Vairāgya, yes.
Prabhupāda: Āśu, "very immediate."
Reporter: Hm. Instant.
Prabhupāda: Instant.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).
Reporter: Is this in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam.
Reporter: Bhāgavatam, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. Big, big politicians, they are sticking to their position up to the point of death. Even Gandhi, unless he was fired, he could not give up.
Prabhupāda: He was for political emancipation.
Reporter: Hm?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to discuss, but the thing is that...
Reporter: (laughs)
Prabhupāda: ...these politicians, they do not grow vairāgya, even up to the point of death.
Reporter: Yes, true.
Prabhupāda: I've seen Jawaharlal Nehru, Pantha(?)... They stuck to their position up to the point of death. Neither did they know that there is necessity of vairāgya. But Vedic philosophy says... All the ācāryas, they're all vairāgīs, either Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, they're all sannyāsīs. Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All vairāgīs. Even Jesus Christ, he was a vairāgī. Even Lord Buddha, vairāgī. This is required, but where is the vairāgya? They're simply attached to these material activities, and they're talking of high, high things. Their preliminary things is not finished, vairāgya. This is the first stage, vairāgya, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42).
Reporter: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya means vairāgya (BG 18.66).
Reporter: Yes, means vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise we are embarrassed with so many dharmas. Social dharma, political dharma, national dharma, international dharma, this dharma, brāhmaṇa-dharma, śūdra-dharma, so many. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharma.
Reporter: All of them.
Prabhupāda: All give up. This is vairāgya. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā (SB 1.2.12). Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. The bhakti-yoga means, jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. Jñāna and vairāgya there must be. Can you find that verse?
- vadanti tat tattva-vidas
- tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
- brahmeti paramātmeti
- bhagavān iti śabdyate
- (SB 1.2.11)
Pradyumna:
- tac chraddadhānā munayo
- jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā
- paśyanty ātmani cātmānam...
- (SB 1.2.12)
Prabhupāda: Paś... Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. Jñāna-vairāgya... Without jñāna-vairāgya you cannot make any spiritual advancement. Then?
Pradyumna: Paśyanty ātmani cātmānam...
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā. Śruta-gṛhītayā. By hearing from authority. Śruta. Gṛhītayā. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. This is the process. Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā, paśyanty ātmānam ātmani, śruta-gṛhītayā, bhaktyā śruta-gṛhītayā (SB 1.2.12). This is the process.
Reporter: By devotion, by listening you receive and see the self...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: ...within the self.
Prabhupāda: Yes, within the self.
Reporter: Ātmani ātmānam. (break)
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
Pradyumna: "The Absolute Truth is realized in full by the process of devotional service to the Lord Vāsudeva, or the Personality of Godhead..."
Prabhupāda: This is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Never says by jñāna or karma you'll get.
Reporter: Only bhakti, yes.
Prabhupāda: Go on.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Kapoor: Ahaituki. Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna-vairāgya, janayaty āśu, ahaituki. Nobody knows how we do.
Dr. Kapoor: That's true.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: That's true. But the wonder is that it didn't act so far, you see, it didn't act when Bon Mahārāja went up. It didn't act when a proper program, and a number of other people, you see. It has started acting only now, (laughter).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you know what the address of Indore is?
Prabhupāda: What?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Address of Indore? (break)
Dr. Kapoor: (Bengali).... Just that I was saying that we require you see, in this age.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: Just that I was saying.
Prabhupāda: Simply they were binding or something else.
Dr. Patel: Myself, I don't talk of others.
Prabhupāda: No, no, yourself also. A bhaktas, they're not ajñānī. That is rascaldom. If says the bhaktas are ajñānī, that is rascaldom because Kṛṣṇa says, teṣām evānukampārtham aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ, nāśayāmi (BG 10.11). If Kṛṣṇa helps him to become jñānī, then how he's ajñānī? It is a, ignorance, they say bhaktas are not jñānīs. Without jñāna, there is no question of bhakta. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā (SB 1.2.12). Bhakta means he's already qualified with jñāna and vairāgya. That is bhakta.
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
It is a mistaken idea, the bhaktas are not very advanced in knowledge.
Dr. Patel: Bhaktas are...
Prabhupāda: They have got real knowledge. They have got real knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). When they have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, they are really jñānī.
Dr. Patel: But some of the absolutely ignorant people, they have become, but...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We don't say, we don't speak of "some." This is the, yes, there are many...
Dr. Patel: Extremely scholastic they have become afterwards. Even though they have not gone to the school.
Prabhupāda: Just like Jīva Gosvāmī. Jīva Gosvāmī, there is no comparison of learned scholarship with him throughout the whole world. He's such a jñānī. Even great, great paṇḍitas said that "There will be no more such learned philosopher, neither there was, like Jīva Gosvāmī." Yes. We are also referring to Jīva Gosvāmī.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jayādvaita: That requires our personally being austere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And what is austerity? It is very simple thing. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu. If you continue devotional service to Lord Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, then automatically the effect of these austerities will become, janayaty āśu, very soon. Vairāgyam. Austerities means detachment to the material world. That is the result of austerity. So śāstra says janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Simply by executing devotional service to Vasudeva, that vairāgya, detachment, very soon arises. Come. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is very good engagement.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It says in the Bhagavad-gītā that persons who at least attempt to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they again, at least they get human form of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So what is the position of tyāgīs, persons who are simply trying to renounce material life? Do they... Are they considered on the devotional path, or do they have to fall down into lower species of life?
Prabhupāda: No.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is that considered attempting to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, simply to give up, say, material sense enjoyment?
Prabhupāda: No, these tyāgīs, Māyāvādīs, by their process they may attempt paraṁ padam, means Brahman effulgence. But Brahman effulgence being simply, what is called, eternity. But a living entity does not want simply eternal life, but he wants ānanda. Now, suppose if you are given, if God says that "You live here in this field eternally," would you like that?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: That is great austerity.
Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that we should not fast more than one day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I wanted to point out to you that the results...
Prabhupāda: No, artificial... Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was fasting, but he was not weak. That fasting. And he who will fast artificially and become weak, "I cannot work," that is not required. That is called markaṭa-vairāgya. If you fast and at the same time you do not become weak, then that is recommended. And after fasting you cannot do a flat, fall flat, then what is the use of fasting? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was fasting, but he was taking thrice bathing and offering obeisances hundred times. His regular activities was not stopped. And he was taking every alternate day a little quantity of butter. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we cannot imitate his position.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. We have to work.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. One of the important things about taking prasādam is that all the devotees sit together. It is actually a very spiritual activity. Just like in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the feasts...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is recommended, that we are following. But now it is not following?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I have to say frankly, I have seen now that in many... I don't want to get into mentioning any names, but some devotees are preaching this.
Prabhupāda: Preaching? Who is that nonsense, preaching.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Revatīnandana Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: He is a rascal.
Prabhupāda: Romaharṣaṇa. (break) ...basic principle of Vedic civlization. They did not... Vyāsadeva, such a learned scholar, he was sitting in a cottage. Lord Śiva, such a big powerful, and the whole material energy, Parvati, is his wife—he is sitting under a tree.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore a sannyāsī is always moving around, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vairāgya. That is required. That is civilization. Vairāgya and jñāna. Jñāna-vairāgya, knowledge and renunciation, or detachment, this is the goal of human life. Because he is attached to this material world, he has to take birth after birth, birth after birth. So to save this botheration, one has to be detached. This is the basic principle of Vedic civilization, jñāna-vairāgya. And detachment is possible when one is in full knowledge, jñāna. And this bhakti-yoga process is detachment. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So it is a civilization of detachment, not attachment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That detachment is a form of wealth for the renounced order.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the gain of human life. Arthadam. This is meaning. Artha means meaning. Arthadam. Durlābhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam. This human life, form of life, is very, very rare. So one can say, "You will also die like cats and dog. How it is rare?" No, yes, adhruvam arthadam: "Although it is temporary, it will not stay, but you can have meaning of life." Adhruvam arthadam. Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Illicit sex, then meat-eating. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Bhāgavata: ...leaving the four sinful activities. Then one can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, this is practicing. This is practicing. Unless one is... Yeṣam tu anta-gataṁ pāpam. Unless one is free from sinful activities, one cannot understand God. It is not possible. God is not so cheap.
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairāgya both are necessary, not only vairāgya. No?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Patel: Practice and vairāgya both are necessary.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya means when you are not addicted to sinful life. That is vairāgya. People have got attachment for sinful activities. (break) ...deve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty aśu vairāgyam. That is the vairāgya way. You cannot practice vairāgya without Vasudeva's shelter.
Dr. Patel: Vairāgya generates by extreme bhakti or by extreme knowledge. Not otherwise. Knowledge is generated by bhakti, no doubt, but then you must have complete knowledge of what is this and what is that.
Prabhupāda: Without bhakti, knowledge is artificial, because knowledge means to accept the Supreme Lord as Supreme. That is knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. It looks like material; it is not material. Completely spiritual. Your body is moving on spiritual strength, but you have no eyes to see spiritual strength. You see the body. And when the spirit goes away, you cry, "My father has gone away." "Why my father has"...? "Your father is there. The body is there." So you have no spiritual vision: therefore you are thinking that gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa is also material. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha (BG 9.11). This is mūḍha's business. They are thinking spiritual activities of Kṛṣṇa as material. That is avajānanti. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Paraṁ bhāvam, the spiritual activities, they do not know. Therefore it is forbidden for materialistic person to hear about gopīs' pastimes with Kṛṣṇa. It is forbidden, that's all, because the rascal will take it as material. (break) ... Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and other Gosvāmīs, they left everything in the material world. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha... They gave up everything. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna, gopī-bhāvāmṛta... Then, in Vṛndāvana, they were thinking of the gopīs' līlā. So after giving up all these things, again they were thinking of material things? Gopī-bhāvāmṛtābdhi-lahari-kallola-magnau. So they were thinking of gopīs' pastimes with Kṛṣṇa. So after giving up everything material, again material? Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ramyād kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhubhir yā kalpitā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after so much renunciation, so much vairāgya and strict following the sannyāsa rule, again He is recommending gopī? This is foolishness. Gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa is completely spiritual. They do not understand. They think it is material. Therefore it is better not to go there. First of all become experienced in spiritual life; then try to understand gopīs' līlā.
Dr. Patel: Jñāna means only God is right, Kṛṣṇa is right, and all this is wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, jñāna means... Real jñāna means "We don't want this material world." That is jñāna. That is vairāgya because people are attached to this material world, and jñāna means completely detached. But he's suffering. On account of this attachment, he's taking repeatedly birth, birth, birth, death, birth, death, birth. So jñāna means to get release from this repetition of birth and death.
Dr. Patel: That is because the people have atmā-buddhi and kunape tri-dhātuke.
Prabhupāda: These rascals talk of jñāna, but they keep full attachment for this material world.
Dr. Patel: The kunape tri-dhātuke.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Jñāna-vairāgyam. One must feel disgusted in this material world, repetition of birth and death. That is jñāna. If one is not disgusted—he still thinks it is very nice to take birth and die—then where is jñāna? There is no jñāna. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's disciples said, ara nare bak. Ara nare bak. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: No, even, you see, sir, this attraction to the other sex is so strong and great it is very difficult for human beings to get relief.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be explained. That is explained, Bhagavad-gītā,
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayi
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taran...
- (BG 7.14)
This is the way. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Just like America... (laughs) Americans have not even one per cent. They are many thousands times opulent, the demigods. So it is very difficult. Just like here for a very rich man to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult. That is a disquali...
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ
- samādhau na dhigacchati
- (BG 2.44)
(Hindi) Voluntarily sannyāsa. All big, big kings in India, voluntarily: "Eh! Give it! Kick it out!" Mahārāja Bhārata, at the age of twenty-four years, he left everything, young wife, children, kingdom, whole world—gave it up. This is Indian culture, vairāgya. Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, (Hindi) as soon as the grandson, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, was major: "Take it. We are going." That is the fact. (Hindi) Even Mahatma (Gandhi). He declared himself mahātmā. He is such a mahātmā that unless he was killed by Goli(?), he was not leaving anything. He was not prepared. This is mahātmā, Kali-yūga ka mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). (Hindi) ...politics, politics, politics. (Hindi) ...nonviolence theory. Kṛṣṇa said, "You will die by violence. Nonviolence, there cannot be nonviolence. You wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā and criticize Me, Kṛṣṇa. All right, you die." Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: And try to keep some cows.
Aksayānanda: Accha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. On the other land. Make a shed immediately and keep some cows. And Viśvambhara, he is experienced. He will help. (break) ...necessary vairāgya, there is no need. We don't approve that. Yuktāhāra-vihāras ca. What you require for keeping health but not to eat too much. But what is absolutely required must be done.
Aksayānanda: I heard that if you pass stool more than once a day you become a bhogī? You are called a bhogī?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Aksayānanda: Does that mean a serious devotee should only pass stool once a day?
Prabhupāda: Don't artificially do that. (laughter) First of all become yogi. Then do it.
Aksayānanda: Yes. Of course, it can only be done by Kṛṣṇa's mercy, but one should at least try for that.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Don't try for passing stool once. (laughter) That does not make you a yogi.
Dr. Patel: This modern education.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: How to make a successful life. Like...
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). That is bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga also, vidyā. Vyāsadeva also says, anārthopasanaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. To get rid of this entanglement, unnecessary things, the only means is bhakti.
Dr. Patel: Modern advancement of science is actually here, entangle the man in more and more bonds. But by raising, creating more bonds for comfort, comfortable life...
Prabhupāda: What comfort?
Dr. Patel: Comfortable life means...
Prabhupāda: That is another...
Dr.Patel: Comfortable life means comfort of the body.
Prabhupāda: To get a comfortable life, one has to work so hard: "Where is comfort?"
Dr. Patel: (laughs) Yes. That is his foolishness. In Europe they actually run in the morning to go to their work. They run like mad dogs.
Prabhupāda: But we are also...
Dr. Patel: They may start running now. They are following them.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pṛthu-putra: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They do not care for the wife.
Pṛthu-putra: They do not care for family attachment in general.
Akṣayānanda: That vairāgya is due to frustration.
Prabhupāda: Whatever the cause...
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The vairāgya is there. That is...
Akṣayānanda: Then you came and gave the missing link. You gave the Kṛṣṇa consciousness itself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vairāgya means that there must be another engagement. Then life is successful, with another spiritual engagement.
Akṣayānanda: That you have supplied.
Prabhupāda: That I have studied.
Akṣayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Akṣayānanda: You must have known that before you went to the West.
Prabhupāda: No, it was Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa wanted to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries, so He gave me the chance to take the credit, that's all. It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. But He liked that one of His devotee may take the credit. That's all. Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I have already killed them. They are not returning, either you fight or not fight, but you can take the credit." So it was arrangement of Kṛṣṇa that Western countries should now have this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And He wanted to give the credit to His poor servant. That's all. Kṛṣṇa likes that. He does everything, but He gives credit to His (chuckling) poor servant. That is my..., vairāgya. The whole process is how to achieve vairāgya. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).
Pṛthu-putra: Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam.
Prabhupāda: ...jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. That was automatic. And the bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-yoga. Vairāgya-yogaṁ nija-bhak.... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So anyway, you have got the right thing. Now make it perfect. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). With great vow and endeavor, kīrtana should go on. Then it is perfect. There is no difficulty. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). The kīrtana is bhajana. So if you are engaged, satatam, in kīrtana, then you are safe. Māyā's father will not be able to touch. In India as soon as you say, "You give up your family life," immediately he becomes morose. The family attachment, especially the wife's attachment, is very, very strong. And śāstra says if one can give up this attachment of wife, then he can conquer Kṛṣṇa. It is said. He can conquer Kṛṣṇa. Simply.... Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a ditch here.
Dr. Patel: That is the highest fulfillment of prema-bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi..., mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo. Mumukṣubhiḥ, this mokṣa-vāñchā, they said, "It is false." So mumukṣu.... parityāgo phalgu vairāgyaṁ kathyate. It is not real vairāgya. He does not know what is vairāgya.
Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇavas.... Veda gives to take care all your mind, sensation, body, from that...
Prabhupāda: Everything Kṛṣṇa's. That...
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa's. That is right.
Prabhupāda: Mānasa deha geha yo kichu mora, arpiluṅ tuwā pade. All as soon as it is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, it is all spiritual.
Mahāṁśa: Sanātana Gosvāmī, at first he wanted to commit suicide. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "This body is not yours."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "How you can make suicide? You have already dedicated your body to Me. You have no right." This was the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's.... You cannot neglect it. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. When one comes to this understanding, that "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, everything has emanated from Kṛṣṇa," ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), "and everything can be used for Kṛṣṇa," then real understanding-sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is wanted. (break) ...1:15. Fifteen minutes late.
Prabhupāda: This is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, intelligent. Go on.
Hṛdayānanda:
- ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
- ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
- sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair baddham
- utsaheta vimocitum
"What person too attached to household life due to being unable to control his senses can liberate himself? An attached householder is bound very strongly by ropes of affection for his family—wife, children and other relatives." Purport: "Prahlāda Mahārāja's first proposal was kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha: (SB 7.6.1) 'One who is sufficiently intelligent should use the human form of body from the very beginning of life—in other words, from the tender age of childhood—to practice the activities of devotional service, giving up all other engagements.' Dharmān bhāgavatān means the religious principle of reviving our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. For this purpose Kṛṣṇa personally advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) 'Give up all other duties and surrender unto Me.' While in the material world we manufacture so many duties in the name of so many isms, but our actual duty is to free ourselves from the cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. For this purpose, one must first be liberated from material bondage, and especially from household life. Household life is actually a kind of license for a materially attached person by which to enjoy sense gratification under regulative principles. Otherwise there is no need of entering household life. Before entering household life, one should be trained as a brahmacārī, living under the care of the guru, whose place is known as the guru-kula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning, a brahmacārī is trained to sacrifice everything for the benefit of the guru. A brahmacārī is advised to go begging alms door to door, addressing all women as mother, and whatever he collects goes to the benefit of the guru. In this way he learns how to control his senses and sacrifice everything for the guru. When he is fully trained, if he likes he is allowed to marry. Thus he is not an ordinary gṛhastha who has learned only how to satisfy his senses. A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs. Then it will be possible for them to give up household life in the future. To return home, back to Godhead, one must be completely free from material attachment. Therefore, bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, the art that can help one develop a distaste for material enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva, surrenders. That's nice. All right, continue tomorrow. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).
Devotees: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Distribute this prasādam. (break) Janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam (SB 1.2.7). Vairāgya and jñāna, both thing will develop, Vāsudeva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take prasādam. Give him twice, he has worked very hard. (laughter) Double, you should give double. So Kṛṣṇa will bless you. So push this scientific movement, go to every university, every college. How they are receiving now in the college circles?
Sadāpūta: We gave a lecture a couple of days ago in Gainesville, and it was interesting. We actually gave a couple of TV interviews.
Prabhupāda: How they received it?
Sadāpūta: Well in the class, at first the professor said "That's completely fallacious." But he quieted down.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they will say like that, "fallacious," but you have to make them down. (laughter)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the TV it was very favorable. The interview was just a professor at the University of Florida, and he's a professor of religion and history. We were speaking how life comes from life from a philosophical and scientific point of view, and he received very well and asked questions also.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Interviewer: How important is your physical environment to you? If this room is very lovely—it has light and space and air and flowers—is this important at all or would it be the same to you to be sitting out on the street?
Prabhupāda: No, why shall I sit if I can sit down on the open space anywhere, on the bank of the river, on the bank of the ocean. There are so many open spaces. You can sit down there.
Bali-mardana: Her question was, "Is your physical place important, surroundings"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So long I have got this physical body, I have to give some physical facility. Yukta-vairāgya. If I can write my books in a comfortable place, why shall I voluntarily go to a dark place? Material facilities, either dark place or lighted place, it is the same thing, but I'll have to accept which is favorable for me.
Rāmeśvara: In other words, our system is, as I explained out there, we are not averse to using material facilities in our service to Kṛṣṇa.
Bali-mardana: We're not dependent upon them.
Rāmeśvara: We're not dependent on them, but if they are available, we must use them for Kṛṣṇa.
Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda has undergone great difficulties...
Prabhupāda: After all, anything, material or spiritual, that is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
Interviewer: That is what?
Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, after all. Anything material or anything spiritual, it's His arrangement.
Prabhupāda: What we say material, that is not aloof from Kṛṣṇa. That is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like darkness and light. Both of them are related to the sun. Is it not? What is darkness? Absence of light. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: His wife has also sannyāsī, renounced. Have you seen her latest?
George Harrison: No.
Prabhupāda: She has cut hair and white dress, living alone in the temple. Vairagya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). This bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidyā, means detachment. That is the perfection of life. If we remain attached, that is conditional. Māyā has made so many things attractive so that we have to remain attached, and to come out of this attachment is called bhakti. So one man, you can sit down, you can eat. Pradyumna, you can eat.
Pradyumna: I've taken some milk before.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you don't require. Now you can eat, go on. Prasāda prapti mātrena. Our Jayatīrtha prabhu is a good manager. Management, looking after. Yes, he's a very good manager, experienced.
George Harrison: Hm?
Prabhupāda: He's experienced manager.
Prabhupāda: ...saptāha, it is not authorized.
Acyutānanda: No. But in some editions of Bhāgavatam they have a Bhāgavata-māhātmyam, and there's a story about bhakti and jñāna and vairāgya and Nārada Muni.
Prabhupāda: That no ācārya has mentioned.
Harikeśa: That's Gītā Press again. That's Gītā Press.
Acyutānanda: They say how this is the instructions for how Bhāgavata should be read in seven days up to this canto.
Prabhupāda: Gītā Press was Māyāvādī. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This lady? That man there? He's our accountant, Mr. Krishna. He lives with us full time. He's doing very good service.
Vāsughoṣa: About two months ago in Hyderabad they had a very big Bhāgavata-saptāha. One thousand and eight brāhmaṇas chanting Bhāgavatam for seven days, and it was presided over by a big Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī, Rāmānuja-sampradāya. And all the local Marwaris, they gave lakhs of rupees for prasādam and so many things.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They hurt our collection, I think.
Vāsughoṣa: No, they haven't given anything to our temple, but for this, the same people, some of them, most of them refused even to become members. One man who refused me to become a member, he gave fifty thousand rupees for prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Why they refused us or help us?
Hari-śauri: He's talking about some Bhāgavata-saptāha they had there.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, I don't decry medicine. That is not my business.
Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't say decry. But you don't want to take advantage of medicine.
Prabhupāda: Medicine. Just like a type of vairāgya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal, I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brāhmaṇa. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way."(?) So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya is there.
Dr. Patel: Sir, shall I say, vairāgyaṁ jñeyam akati kṛṣṇa avasyati.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). This is vairāgya. So unless he has attained this stage, virakti, then where is bhakti? Bhakti is so powerful that it brings automatically vairāgya. But if there is no vairāgya, where is bhakti? Understand it now? Yes. It does not depend that you have to practice vairāgya separately. But if you are actually bhakta, then vairāgya is there. If there is no vairāgya, there is no bhakti. It is sahajiyā-bhāva.
Guest: In other words, vairāgya is a by-product of bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated,
- kecit kevalayā bhaktyā
- vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ
- aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena
- nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ
- (SB 6.1.15)
Vairāgya is to be practiced, but bhakti is so strong, kecit kevalayā bhaktyā, simply by bhakti, vāsudeva-parāyaṇa. Vairāgya immediately comes. Aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. If actually one is pure bhakta, then everything material finished. That is real bhakta. Now I have got some bhakti and some material desire also. That is not bhakti. That is markaṭa-vairāgya. That does not mean that I shall stop bhakti. No, you take bhakti to the principle, to the regulative principle, then automatically vairāgya will come. The vairāgya is not coming, that means you have not been a pure bhakta. That is adulteration. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is bhakti. And because there is not anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), it is adulterated.
Prabhupāda: There is no harm, but they should understand what is Rādhā-kuṇḍa and how to deal with Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī showed how to live in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau. He was circumambulating Rādhā-kuṇḍa, falling down, making a mark. That is Rādhā-kuṇḍa vāsī. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. Not only counted holy names, but offering obeisances so many hundred times in... That is Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He, so much vairāgya he showed. He can take bath in the Rādhā-kuṇḍa. First of all, do this like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī. Saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ kālāvasānī-kṛtau nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau **.
Yaśomatīnandana: In other words, first one should understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then gradually the First Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then ultimately Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Without that, simply taking Caitanya-caritāmṛta...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhagavad-gītā is the entrance. Then Bhāgavata is graduate and Caitanya-caritāmṛta... This is the step by step. But if one is sincere everything becomes revealed. He does not commit mistake.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some devotees, especially in Vṛndāvana, who will always try to run to Hardwar, Jagannātha Purī, always parikrama of holy places.
Prabhupāda: It is good to go to holy places.
Prabhupāda: It is... Nowadays motor vehicle driving is an important item for anyone. We have spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness so quickly on account of the modern transport facilities, so we must take it as favorable. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Anukūla, favorable. Favorable, favorable. It is not we have got concern with material. That is not Rūpa Gosvāmī's... prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi... This cars can be used for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness; why it should be condemned? That is not intelligence. Rūpa Gosvāmī condemns it. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Things which is in the service of the Lord, if we think it is material, then that is not vairāgya. That is not renouncement. That is foolishness. (Break)
Jayapatākā: When I was traveling in Burdwan, there we saw the big palace of Maharaja of Burdwan
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Gigantic. He has given that to the university. Then we did a kīrtana at his... He has one temple of Rādhā-kānta. That's present ācārya is about a twenty-two-year old boy. He's in the sampradāya of Nimbārka Svāmī. So he doesn't know anything about, very much about spiritual life, although he is following the tradition. That's such a vast... That building is vast. I can't explain to you how big that is. It's at least five times bigger than our building in all ways, and... It is a huge compound. He has got much land in the name of the Deity. So he's becoming a member because he wants to read your books to understand about Lord Caitanya and spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Now for making member you should be very clear so that no misunderstanding takes place. Books, we shall give five books.
Prabhupāda: Twelve lakhs. So by selling my books. And I have sent him more than four lakhs, five lakhs from foreign countries. This is my fault. Similarly, in Bombay we are spending every month seven lakhs regularly. That is coming from foreign countries. And they are thinking that I'm taking bribe and acting as C.I.A. And C.I.A. have become Vaiṣṇavas with long śikhā and giving up all facilities of life and they are dancing with the C.I.A. People have no common sense that C.I.A. agent could stay in a nice hotel and enjoy life. Why so much vairāgya? Even my Godbrothers said that American government has given me two crores of rupees. Now we are planning to have a temple in Māyāpur where... What is, what is the economic estimates, where we shall spend how much money monthly?
Harikeśa: Two hundred thousand dollars monthly.
Prabhupāda: Two hundred thousand dollars monthly. (break) Nobody will be able to check it. He'll go on. That is Kṛṣṇa. Here is dictaphone. I work at night. I get up at half past twelve, one, and I write books. And daytime I'm engaged. And daily either ten page, twenty page written, that is sent to Los Angeles. You have seen our press? And they take care. How our books printed, have you got that film?
Mahāṁsa: I have it in 16 mm only. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you show?
Mahāṁsa: Just now?
Prabhupāda: Mirage. There is no water. It appears there is water, and the animal goes forward and it goes forward, it goes forward. So this material world is like that. Ask anybody, any so-called successful. Unless he's an ass, nobody will say that this is very comfortable. So best thing is to become niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhāgavata-bhajana... This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. Bhāgavata-bhajana means niṣkiñcana. You make nothing this material world. That is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so long I'll make this material world something, then I'll suffer. Best thing is make it... Just like Draupadī. Draupadī, when she was grabbed in the assembly and Duryodhana and Karṇa wanted to make her naked. So generally woman, if you try to make her naked she'll try to save herself. So she was trying to save herself and when she thought, "There is no way. My husbands are here. They are not helping, and..." So cloth is being supplied by Kṛṣṇa, but how long I shall? No, before Kṛṣṇa helping, she was trying to help herself. But when she found that it is not possible, then she did not try to save the cloth. She said, "Kṛṣṇa, save me!" Two arms. You have seen the picture. And then Kṛṣṇa supplied cloth. So it is, "Go on, yes, Duḥśāsana, you go on. You try to make her naked. I'll supply." So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, that one should, if one is serious about bhagavad-bhajana, he should take it, whole material world, as nothing. Sometimes I think, I made nothing this material world, and again retired in Vṛndāvana. Again Kṛṣṇa, you have given so many things. What is the purpose? At that time, I remember Rūpa Gosvāmī's instruction. "This is not mine. This is Kṛṣṇa's." Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgya. We are exerting so much energy to construct a temple, but as soon as we become implicated, "Now I have got this big building. Let me live very comfortably." Then it is very dangerous. So long we work for Kṛṣṇa, it is Kṛṣṇa's, I am still nothing. And as soon as I take it, "Oh, now I have got very good, comfortable place. Make me again something." Take that as dangerous.
Prabhupāda: ...forest, naked, renounced, eating fruits. But debauch number one. Markaṭa-vairāgya. There are so many vairāgīs. Markaṭa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, ei 'ta kali-celā. Here is a disciple of Kali. Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. But has got a tilaka on the forehead and neckbeads on the neck. But is Kali-celā-number one disciple of Kali. You know this song? Kali-celā. These persons who are committing sinful life—don't say anyone (laughs) or publish—there will be trouble. But that's a fact. Those who are living in Vṛndāvana and acting like monkey, they'll get next life—a monkey. To remain in Vṛndāvana, and then next life they will be liberated. In one life all their sinful activities will be punished. Because as soon as animal life is obtained, there is no more further record of the sinful life. The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. But their sinful activity is not taken into account. For this man who is offered this monkey's body, he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. So his sinful activities are counteracted, and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be... That is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Otherwise what is the explanation of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana? If it is dhāma-aparādha, committing offense in dhāma. Dhāma-aparādha. As dhāma-bhajana, if one undergoes devotional service out of Vṛndāvana and one executes devotional service in Vṛndāvana, that is hundred times better. Similarly dhāma-aparādha also. This aparādha, when offense is committed outside Vṛndāvana, that is not so grievous as committing offense in Vṛndāvana. Dhāma-aparādha. So the punishment is there, but the reward is also there. One life makes pardoned. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). Therefore a devotee in a reverse condition of life, he understands that "I am punished. Little punished for my previous mischievous activities. So now I am becoming liberated." So he becomes more enthused to worship the Lord, that "You are finishing my sinful reaction of life with slight punishment. Thank you very much. This is devotee. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ.
Prabhupāda: That type of, 99%.
Guru dāsa: Just like 99% of us become lazy when we come to India.
Prabhupāda: You'll advise, but you'll never do it. That is going on. (break) ...elephants dance, and we see. This is Indian policy. These white elephants, they'll come and dance, and you'll see. And you are busy with your daughter's marriage. That's all. (break) ...means vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga (CC Madhya 6.254). Nobody can become a bhakta unless he has disgusted with material life. "I shall do this, I shall do that." And he'll never do bhakti-yoga. That's all. This is not possible. (break) Before leaving my family life I wanted to get my all sons and daughters married, but some of them disagreed, some of them... My wife disagreed. Let them go to hell, I don't care. Time is up. Never mind you are married or not married. Then see your own business. (break) I or you, then who will take care of the marriage of your daughter? Suppose you die immediately? Then who will take care?
Guest (1): God will give them...
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you do that now? God will take care. It is called, my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "civil suicide." Civil suicide. Just like if you commit suicide, that is criminal. But this is voluntarily committing suicide. Now I am dead. Whatever you like, you do. So we have to commit civil suicide if we are actually attached to Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya... (BG 18.66). That is gṛha-dharma. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up that." But that attachment is there. I do not think... Suppose I die immediately. Who will take care of my daughter? At that time we say "God." And why not now?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is after sense gratification. No vairāgya. And he's in knowledge. His qualification is like dog and he has become a man of knowledge. (break)
Indian man: To go to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Finish this.
Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?
Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Swami means who is the controller of the senses.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Master of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Senses. So instead of swami, he is servant of his senses, and he is preaching as swami. These swamis go to the foreign countries. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.
Yogi Amrit Desai: They have vairāgya to his senses, of the senses.
Prabhupāda: A sannyāsī... A sannyāsī means he has ceased all material desire. There is no material desire. And the concentrated material enjoyment is sex. So if one could not control his sex life, then how he is swami? He's cheater.
Yogi Amrit Desai: That is the most potent of all the external attachments.
Prabhupāda: That is the essence. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam (SB 5.5.2). Tamo-dvāram. Viśatāṁ tamisram adānta-gobhiḥ. Adānta-gobhiḥ, by uncontrolled senses, one is going down and down to the darkest region of material existence. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. So those who are sensuous... One should not be sensuous. That is also... And if he mixes with sensuous persons, then he also going to the hell.
Prabhupāda: Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. (Hindi) Jñāna and vairāgya. (Hindi)
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
Guest (Indian man): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
- dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv
- ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api
- pramatto teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ
- paśyann api na paśyati
- (SB 2.1.4)
Deha, śarīre, apatya, offspring, children. Dehāpatya-kalatrā, kalatrā, patnī. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv asatsv api ātma-sainyeṣu. (Hindi) ...struggle for existence. But we think that "These soldiers will give me protection, dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu. I have got a strong body, and I have got very faithful wife. My children are so obedient and working. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣu. And so I am safe." Ātmā sainya asatsu. Asatsu means... (Hindi). And still, pramatto tasya nidhanam. He knows that "These soldiers will be slaughtered in this battle, struggle for existence." Paśyann api na paśyati: "Although he knows, still, he is blind."
Prabhupāda: No sādhana, bhajana, and simply naga.
Hari-śauri: They smoke chillums, so they're so intoxicated that they don't...
Gurukṛpa: I saw one naga. They said he was smoking a cigarette for twelve years. Not a chain smoker, "cable smoker."
Prabhupāda: Markaṭa-vairāgya, the renunciation of a monkey.
Bhāgavata: You have explained in Fifth Canto. Verses are there. Renunciation like a monkey.
Gurukṛpa: One man had his arm up for twelve years. He had his arm up with his hands closed, and his fingernails had grown, and his arm was flat for keeping up for twelve years like Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Hari-śauri: We saw one man in the Rāmānuja camp, too. He hadn't sat down for eighteen years. He carried a small swing with him, so wherever he went, he would go underneath a tree and hang the swing and lean on it. And he'd not sat down for eighteen years. (laughter) He had bandages all over his legs.
Bhāgavata: They have concocted this. It is not written in Vedas anywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, there are. Hiraṇyakaśipu did it.
Hari-śauri: Like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Like monkeys, yes. Markaṭa-vairāgya. (break) And they are living very rich. And if you make big, big cities without industry, cities cannot be maintained. You'll require so many instruments, machine. That means you require (indistinct). If you require food, there is no need of industry.
Satsvarūpa: I remember in school seeing films of India, and they would say, "This is very backward. They're living as they used to live hundreds of years ago by using the ox and the plow."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have, hundred years after, we have learned how to kill ox and bulls. That is your advancement. And kill your own children also. Rascal civilization. They say "primitive." I was talking with a priest in Australia. So he said, "This civilization you are suggesting, this is primitive." Do they call it primitive?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And what is the wrong with the primitive?
Satsvarūpa: They think it's shocking that the way they used to live hundreds of years ago, they're still living. But in America...
Prabhupāda: So what improvement you have done, rascal?
Satsvarūpa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.
Gargamuni: No. Even in Māyāpur we wake them up at four.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that must be. Why Māyāpur? Vṛndāvana, they are accustomed. Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra... This sleeping is the māyā's influence. It is stated in the... Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpeṇa saṁsthitaḥ.(?) The Devī, this material energy, has captured everyone, and she is there... The more one sleeps, that means he's under the control of māyā. And the more he is not sleeping, he's free from māyā. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over three things: nidrā, sleeping; āhāra, eating; and mating. These things are the clutches of māyā. More we have sex, more we have eating, more we have sleeping, that means I am entangled. The more we conquer over it, we are free. That we have to try. Whether I am in the clutches of māyā or not can be tested—whether I am sleeping more, whether I am eating more, whether I am more sexually inclined. He can test himself. And bhakti means vairāgya-vidyā, to conquer over these three things. So practice this. They are... To rise early in the morning and attend maṅgala-ārati is compulsory. It is part of this education, spiritual education. And not to eat more than necessary. Then you'll not sleep more. You'll find, if you observe fast, you won't feel sleepy. Have you tested this?
Gargamuni: Yes. I can remember.
Prabhupāda: Also Caitanya Mahāprabhu has decide..., that decidedly given His version, asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra: (CC Madhya 22.87) "A Vaiṣṇava, his first business is to give up the company of undesirable elements, asat." So who is undesirable element? Now, asat eka strī-saṅgī, who is attached with woman, and kṛṣṇa-abhakta. So as soon as you mix with these so-called bābājīs, bhajana, bhajanānandīs and mixes with three dozen women, you are fallen. Immediately. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. Asat eka strī-saṅgī. And regularly they are parakīyā-rasa. Their theory is that you have to select one woman who is not your bona fide wife, parakīyā. She must be other's wife or outsider. And with her you may do... You become Kṛṣṇa, and she becomes Rādhārāṇī. Then you become happy. This is going on. Do you know that? These rascals are guiding. And Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava. "First of all you have to give up the undesirable company of these rascals." They will show like that in a very advanced and vairāgya and taking three times bath and everything, but they have got connection with at least three, four woman. This is their bhajana. Regularly they will lie down with woman. That's a daily program. I know all these things. That is their bhajana. So be careful of these rascals.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nescient stage?
Prabhupāda: Lower stage. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). That... There is one verse written by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. What page I don't... Śikṣārtham. The bhakti-yoga, nija-bhakti-yoga... Bhakti-yoga means devotion to Kṛṣṇa. And that is vairāgya-vidyā, how to learn, renounce this world. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave up His gṛhastha life? He's the same person. Why Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up their ministership? By their personal behavior they are showing this is not required. This is vairāgya-vidyā. So under the circumstances, those who have no vairāgya, they cannot live in the temple. They are taking advantage of the temple facilities for their sense enjoyment. Do you understand?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I do.
Prabhupāda: So that should be stopped. So to live with wife, together as a gṛhastha, and enjoy gṛhastha life, at the same time to live in temple, this should be discouraged. Temple is meant for brahmacārī and sannyāsī, our, mainly, not for gṛhastha, because they have got inclination to enjoy. To live with wife means enjoyment. They'll have sex. This should be discouraged. But one who is absolutely required, they also cannot be allowed to live together. It is badly done(?). Suppose if one is gṛhastha, he is in devotional service, but he has no money to look after his wife. In that case the wife can live in the temple but separately with women, not together. Together living is very disturbing. It is not at all recommended. Give this point. At least, this should not be encouraged.
Prabhupāda: All right, apartment can be... But what is this? They are given high salary. Because his service is essential—"All right, you take apartment."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But not...
Prabhupāda: You take prasādam. But why salary? Where is the question of salary? Where is vairāgya, renouncement? So in all circumstances the salary process should be stopped. One who wants salary, he can work outside.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even if you don't give a salary, if you give an apartment and you give food and you give all these other things for someone to maintain his household life...
Prabhupāda: Because his service is essential.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that has to be determined very strictly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Whether his service is absolutely required? So you give him.
Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles it is very freely going on. In the name of Vaiṣṇavism they are drawing salary, living comfortably, having sense enjoyment. This is not good, not at all. So you all high officers, you think over it and do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vairāgya should be cultivated.
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti. It is not so easy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). That is vairāgya. So vairāgya-vidyā... Otherwise why big, big persons, they renounced everything? Bharata Mahārāja, young man, the emperor of the whole world, gave up everything. Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally teaches, young man, good, beautiful wife, young wife, so affectionate mother, so much honor in the society, Nimāi Paṇḍita, so beautiful body... Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm (SB 11.5.34). Surepsita. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's position was, even the demigods, they desired such family life. But He still gave up. That is teaching. Therefore Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhak..., śikṣārtham: "to teach others." He understood that in order to teach others vairāgya-vidyā... He is the Supreme Person. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ purāṇa-puruṣaḥ: (CC Madhya 6.254) "That He was, Supreme Lord. Now He has appeared as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya."Śarīra-dhārī: "He has accepted one body as Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya." So these things should be stopped, that they should live comfortably with husband and wife, children, and take salary from the... You decide. This is not to our... Besides that, in our BBT it is clearly written that "Fifty percent for printing book, and fifty percent for..." So you cannot violate this. Those who can give voluntary service, "Welcome." Otherwise we don't require. At least they should not be given any salary. That is very bad. This is against principle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was reading the life sketch of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. He always maintained a government service job, and still...
Prabhupāda: He gave so much service to Kṛṣṇa. From his family maintenance... He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he... Markaṭa-vairāgya. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was against giving sannyāsa. He didn't like these bābājīs. They were markaṭa-vairāgya, superficially... Markaṭa-vairāgya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairāgya. But three dozen wives. Markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa means monkey. Superficially vairāgya, nāgā-bābā. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairāgya. But sex. We have... I have seen in Vṛndāvana. They have got a party, each monkey, women's party, and the male will come to any female, "Now ready," "Enter." You can see it. Markaṭa-vairāgya nāhi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christians had that happen to them.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.
Prabhupāda:
- vāsudeve bhagavati
- bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
- janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
- jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
- (SB 1.2.7)
In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies. They are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like, inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. (Hindi) Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister. (Hindi with scattered English words) Practical application there are. (Hindi) (pause) (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with scattered English) Without bhakti, jñāna is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend... Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked. (Hindi) Bhagavān is within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He assures... (Hindi) The so-called jñānī, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme-kāṅkṣati. When actually one is self-realized, na kāṅkṣati. Yogī kāṅkṣati. (Hindi) Bhagavān is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is selfishness. (Hindi) Then where is that picture? The gopīs are pushing Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So this is direct process. Because Kali-yuga, they cannot actually undergo severe austerities, penances, vairāgya. Little difficult. Not difficult. Very difficult. But that is a special concession for this age. Because we are very fallen, we cannot undergo severe austerities, penances, yamena niyamena vā, brahmacarya. Very, very difficult. So Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, recommends that "Kali-yuga is full of faults." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājan: "It is a ocean of fault. But there is one great opportunity." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Specially for this age. What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param: (SB 12.3.51) "Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa he can become liberated and go back to home, back to God..."
Indian man (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: What is time now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten after six, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming miserly. You print as many books as you like. All money will be paid if you have no money. Why? If you are selling books, you must have money also.
Jayapatākā: We have a program to print. We're printing right now. It's in the press at the present time. The Bhakti-kathā, Jñāna-kathā, Bhagavānera-kathā and then hardback Vairāgya-vidyā. And also three issues of Bhāgavata-darśana. We're trying to, within that money also, print the first three chapters of Bhagavad-gītā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We gave him a loan of forty-five thousand rupees, and then another twenty-five is coming. But that's all...
Prabhupāda: So you'll get money. Print.
Jayapatākā: One of our parties has gone to Bihar, and they sold about twelve thousand books and they ran out. They just now ran out of books, so they went to Bombay to get Hindi books, but there was no stock. So they came here to... Spent four hundred rupees going there, they found no books. Then they came here to Delhi, and they got two thousand books from Vṛndāvana here, what stock they had.
Prabhupāda: So why stock lacking? Why this mismanagement? There is no question of shortage of stock. I give you open order. Print more than necessity. If you do not print, what shall I do?
Prabhupāda: English?
Jayapatākā: Well, this Vairāgya Vidyā, that will be printed in two weeks, so then we will distribute that. In English there's good scope also, because in my zone, Arunachal Pradesh and Meghalaya, they are English-predominated state because the Christian missionary have converted everyone. But they found great reception there, although the Christians are... Even the Christians are buying. There seems to be a lot of land for sale right now. About 60 to 80 bighās of land is for sale, and the people are asking the market rates. So it's... We don't have to depend on acquisition. We can just go and buy.
Prabhupāda: Can you... If you are able to... (mic moving) Subscribe within our jurisdiction so much land. Otherwise they will sublet(?) it. Why you have purchased agricultural land?
Jayapatākā: We will purchase in the... We'll get a permit from the government to hold more land. And until that time, then we'll purchase in the name of Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, Svarūpa Dāmodara.
| Page Title: | Vairagya (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 19 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=53, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 53 |