Prabhupāda: It is not that Nityānanda is less powerful than Caitanya, or Advaita is less powerful than... No. Any incarnation or expansion has the same potency, Viṣṇu-tattva. The manifestation of potency is different. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Lord Rāma is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But one is original. Kṛṣṇa is original, and Rāma is an expansion. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore as ideal king He was limiting Himself with the moral principles of this world. And Kṛṣṇa, being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He exhibited that He's above any principle of the material world. He's free to act any way He likes.
Unmanifested (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"no manifestation"
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|"not manifesting"
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (2): What is the difference between an expansion and an incarnation?
Prabhupāda: Expansion is direct, and incarnation is indirect. When expansion of expansion is accepted, that is called kāla, incarnation, avatāra, kāla. So Advaita is not direct. The example is given in Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like you get one candle kindled from the first candle, another from the second, another from the third. So similarly, either expansion or incarnation, they are all candles. The original candle is Kṛṣṇa. It is not that expansion of expansion is less powerful. The candle power is the same either origin or expansion or expansion of the expansion. It is not that Nityānanda is less powerful than Caitanya, or Advaita is less powerful than... No. Any incarnation or expansion has the same potency, Viṣṇu-tattva. The manifestation of potency is different. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Lord Rāma is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But one is original. Kṛṣṇa is original, and Rāma is an expansion. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore as ideal king He was limiting Himself with the moral principles of this world.
Prabhupāda: So fighting was not possible in the Vaikuṇṭha world; therefore these two doorkeepers were sent to the material world by the plan of the Supreme Lord so that they could fight as Hiraṇyakaśipu and Hiraṇyākṣa with the Lord. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now the spiritual spark is entering into the material world, penetrating seven layers. This is called avyakta, nonmanifested. Just like in the sky there are nonmanifested and manifested things. If you go high, some 25,000, fifty thousand miles up, you'll simply find in the sky nothing manifested. But if you go still higher, higher, higher, you will find some other planets existing. So the part which is nonmanifested is called avyakta, and the part which is manifested, that is called vyakta. So these two souls from Vaikuṇṭha, they are coming into this material world. So they're penetrating the nonmanifested matter.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śrutakīrti: "Yet there is another nature which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."
Prabhupāda: So that is spiritual world. This material world is created. The spiritual world is not created; it is eternal.
Pradyumna: "Yet there is another nature which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."
Prabhupāda: This matter which you are seeing, this is manifested. But there is material stock, unmanifested. A stock of water, stock of fire, stock of earth. Layer. This universe is covered by different layers, and each layer is ten times bigger than the other layers. That is unmanifested. That is unmanifested. Therefore vyakto 'vyaktāt. This, what we see, this is manifested, but the stock... Just like from the stock of your, I mean to say, stone and lime and cement and brick, you make a skyscraper building, manifested. But the stock is also there. Stock is also there. Similarly this manifested material world is there. It is taken from the stock. The stock is, a huge stock there is. We get information. Layer, the universe. And penetrating all these layers, we have to go to the spiritual world.
Devotee (2): The five elements are eternal.
Prabhupāda: Eternal, but it is manifested and not manifested. Just like conservation of energy. That is the... Energy is manifested, sometimes not manifested. (break) But nonmanifested does not mean that... (break) ...energy.
Karandhara: Well, on the other hand, they say what you can't say you...
Prabhupāda: No, I can't say? Why I cannot say? I am saying, that this man is richer than this man. This man is richer than this man. You go on, go on, go on, studying. But if you cannot study, you cannot approach, that is your inefficiency. But there is existing actually. This man is greater than this man, this man is greater than... That's all. But who is that highest educated... That you do not see. That does not mean He is not existing. There must be, because the step is going on. How can you deny this?
Bali Mardana: We cannot see, but someone else can see.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Kṛṣṇa says He's not manifest to the foolish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is... You may not have seen something, but I have seen.
Karandhara: Well, they say that's the universal cop-out. The universal cop-out is to say that God does not reveal Himself to anyone except His devotees.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural, if a big man, he reveals to his confidential secretaries, not to everyone.
Karandhara: Just like Guru Maharaji. He says you cannot understand that he is God unless you believe in him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That he'll say, "Everyone is God". But there is comparative God. He cannot say that he is as good God as Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This material world is created. That you cannot say, "It is not created." Everything we see in our front, everything is created.
Karandhara: Well, they say, "Nothing is created."
Prabhupāda: No. Created, in this sense, it is manifested.
Karandhara: In that sense. But that still isn't the creation of the energy itself.
Prabhupāda: That... What is that energy? That is spiritual energy. Therefore we divide material energy and spiritual energy. In the spiritual energy everything is manifested and non-manifested. And the spiritual energy, everything is ever-existing. Sanātana, sanātana. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). Sanātana means ever-existing. There is another nature, but that is not this nature. That we admit.
Karandhara: But if this energy was never created, then what is the need for a creator?
Prabhupāda: No. We admit the energy is not created. But energy comes from the energetic. Energy. Just like you may become angry. So that anger energy is there in you, but it is not manifested. So there are certain energies which sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. So this energy, material energy, is of God. This energy is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But there is another energy which is eternal. That is spiritual world. That is our... This is scientific study. (break)
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mr. Sar: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto mamāvyayam anuttamam.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). That Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that He can come in a spiritual body. Otherwise how He remembers millions of years. If His body's changing, it is material, then how He can remember?
Mr. Sar: Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā... (BG 7.25).
Prabhupāda: Ah. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ... Therefore He's not manifest except to the devotee.
Prabhupāda: Aneka. So here is the word, aneka. Ana eka, "more than one." So what is that aneka?
Dr. Patel: Everything, aneka.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Dr. Patel: Innumerable you can say.
Chandobhai: I mean (indistinct Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: Aneka, that is confirmed in the Vedas, eka puruṣam. That is aneka. That is aneka.
Dr. Patel: Eka puruṣam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Although He is one, He can manifest. He is exiting, not manifest. He is existing in aneka. And what is that aneka? Aneka means expansion of svāṁśa... That is... Therefore we require reference from many śāstras. In the Varaha Purāṇa this aneka explained—svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. Svāṁśa, expansion of the Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). He has expanded Himself in so many incarnations, rāmādi, like Rāma, not this loafer class. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). This is aneka. Another aneka-mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhuta (BG 15.7). They are also aneka. Anantāya kalpate. So all the Viṣṇu forms and all the living entity forms, altogether, he was able to see in the body of Kṛṣṇa. That is aneka.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa showed this attractiveness in full. (break) ...any question you can ask. (break)
Bhāgavata: ...expansion or incarnation has the six opulences in full except for Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Kṛṣṇa is cent percent. Next to Kṛṣṇa is Nārāyaṇa. Next to Nārāyaṇa is Lord Śiva.
Acyutānanda: Lord Caitanya did not manifest so much opulence as Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, Lord Caitanya appeared as a devotee. How He can show the opulence of Kṛṣṇa? Sometimes He showed. But He was playing the part, bhaktākhyaṁ bhaktāvatāraṁ namāmi bhakta-śaktikam.
Yogeśvara: (translates) And in that situation, always thinking of God like that, our philosophy is that naturally these others things, charity, humanitarian works, they will all come naturally?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). As soon as you become a unalloyed devotee of God, all the good qualities will manifest in you. If the good qualities does not manifest in you, that means you are not yet perfect in God consciousness. Just like you European boys, American boys, why you have given... (break) ...one of the item is that good quality that "Why shall I give trouble, pain, to other animals?" This is within the God consciousness. Just like poor-feeding. This program we also follow. In our temple, especially in India, any man can come and take his food. Yes. We have got arrangement. In the U.S.A also, Los Angeles, New York, we invite anyone, "Come and take food." We don't want to see that anyone is hungry. We don't want to see. So God consciousness means all the good ideas we are manufacturing, they will be manifested in God consciousness automatically. Therefore our duty should be, if we want to make all human being well-behaved, then we must try to make every one of them God conscious.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The sunshine has covered 93,000,000 miles all round, so the sunshine is big or the sun is big?
Kīrtanānanda: The potency is in the sun.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is big, not the Brahmān. And within the sun globe there is sun-god, Vivasvān. They do not know all these. They think the sunshine is the...
Guru-kṛpa: The sun is different than Vivasvān?
Prabhupāda: Not different. Just like the sunshine is not different from the sun globe. Sun globe means all the inhabitants there, they are glowing. Therefore the whole planet is glowing.
Guru-kṛpa: Vivasvān, he is...?
Prabhupāda: He is also glowing.
Guru-kṛpa: He will stay as long as the sun... He is present?
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has got a duration of life. When the creation will be annihilated he'll be annihilated. He'll be not annihilated. Nobody is annihilated, but he's not manifest, nonmanifest. He is demigod. The demigods, with the annihilation of the material world, they will be all finished. But Kṛṣṇa will remain there. Aham eva āsam agre. And He will be remained. He was in the beginning of creation, and at the end of creation He'll be there.
Guru-kṛpa: Prabhupāda, in the Bhāgavatam, it is mentioned, sarva-devāmayo guruḥ (SB 11.17.27). What is the meaning?
Prabhupāda: "Guru is the representation of all Gods and demigods."
Rūpānuga: They say matter can never be created or destroyed, but they do not know that life cannot be created or destroyed.
Prabhupāda: Nothing cannot be created. Life also cannot be created. They are already there. But matter is manifest, not manifest. Just like this body is manifest because the life is there. Now, this body will be destroyed, but I will exist. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). I will accept another body, and it will grow. Therefore the matter grows on the basis of life, not that from matter, life comes. This is all rascaldom. So now, by the grace of... We have got scientists. Let them protest. Save the people from this ignorance. Mūḍhā. That is our mission. Give them chance. They have got human body. Let them become Kṛṣṇa conscious and give up all this nonsense thing. Hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena avasthitiḥ. Mukti, this is mukti. They are mad after something wrong. So they should be saved, and they should give up this so-called materialism and come to service to the Kṛṣṇa, his eternal job. Then that is mukti. He is liberated.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question that Mādhava was raising that came up in the questions that all the forms of these living entities which... All the species, their forms, their gross forms...
Prabhupāda: That is coming from mind.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, whether that has come all of a sudden.
Prabhupāda: No all of a sudden.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Or is it by gradual evolution from...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). As you are thinking always, so you are creating your next body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That still is not the answer. What we want is, at the time of creation of the material world, when all the species, 8,400,000 species...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are all simultaneously manifested, just at once?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But they are not manifested yet. Because it was like sleeping. When there is no creation and..., there is sleeping stage. Just like in the sleeping stage, even at the present moment, at night, the dog is sleeping, the bird is sleeping, the man is sleeping, the tiger is... Everyone is sleeping at night. But in the morning, as soon as they awake, they understand, "I am tiger," "I am dog," "I am man," "I am this," "I am that." Everyone remembers that "I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to go there. I have to bring money from there." All duties come immediately. So all these living creatures who are sleeping at night, but when there is morning, they again become the same. That is creation.
Prabhupāda: By desire you are creating everything. Why these material varieties? You desire. In the spiritual world also, varieties. You desire. You want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His friend, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His lover, you want to serve Kṛṣṇa as His father, as His servant, or you want to serve Kṛṣṇa by supplying fruits and flowers, or river Yamunā. Everything, whatever you like, Kṛṣṇa will give you opportunity, in this material and the spiritual world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: After complete annihilation and then, when the creation starts again...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of annihilation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I mean the material universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is manifest, not manifest. Not annihilation. The energy is there. Just like sometimes I become angry, and sometime I am peaceful. But that means anger is annihilated. Anger is there. It may be manifest at any time. There is no question of annihilation. You say like that because actually it is vyakta, avyakta: manifest and nonmanifest.
Rūpānuga: We don't see it, so we say it's not manifest.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So during this time there are still living entities which are not manifested.
Prabhupāda: Living are already there, but his desires are manifest or nonmanifest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the living entities are there, but they stop manifesting the different bodies.
Devotee 6: Was there a time when there was no material world?
Prabhupāda: No, no. The material world in potency is always there. But it has got a manifestation, beginning, and again end. It begins from God, and again it ends in God. But God is eternal. (break) ...feeling of your, it is manifested, and sometimes it is not manifested. But the feeling potency is there. Just like sometimes I become angry and sometimes not angry, but the potency of becoming angry is there. That is eternal. Similarly, the material world, the material energy, or the material nature, is permanent, but it is sometimes manifest, sometimes not manifest. It is now manifest. It will end. Again, another body you will manifest, and it will end. But I am eternal.
Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda, in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, "Nature, Enjoyer, and Consciousness," in verse number six and seven you mention those twenty-seven coverings: "The five great elements, false ego, intelligence, the unmanifest, the ten senses, the mind, the five sense objects, desire, hate, happiness, and distress, the aggregate, the life symptoms and convictions—all these are considered, in summary, to be the field of activities and their interaction." And...
Prabhupāda: By the material life, these are our field of activities. The body is a combination of all these things. Just like a huge computer machine. It is made of these material things, but the mechanical parts are very minute, different. All these are matter. But within this matter, because the soul is there, therefore the finest machine is working. Just like your composition machine, (imitates machine:) "Kut, kut, kut, kut, kut, kut." But one has to push the button; otherwise useless. However very nicely made the machine, without a living being's touch, it is useless. So all this big machine, body, is wonderful so long the soul is there. And as soon as the soul is out it is lump of matter, useless, not worth a penny. Throw it away. So we are giving importance to the machine, not to the person who is dealing with the machine. This is the folly of modern civilization. We are thinking like child, "The machine is working independently." But that is not the fact. The big airship, 747, is flying because the pilot is there, and the pilot is a soul, covered by another bodily machine. And that, that is missing point in the modern civilization, that who is working with the machine. That they do not know. That is ignorance.
Brahmānanda:
- mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
- jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
- mat sthāni sarva bhūtāni
- na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
- (BG 9.4)
"By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All things are in Me but I am not in them."
Prof. Hopkins: So the failure is a failure to go beyond.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prof. Hopkins: The failure is a failure to go beyond, to realize beyond that level of identity, that there is a Lord, who is...
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī philosophy is defective. They say if everything is God then where is the Lord's separate existence. That is their defect. That is materialist theory. If you take a big paper and make it into small pieces and throw it away, then the big paper is lost. (laughs) The Māyāvādī thinks like that, that if everything is Brahman, Brahman is distributed, then where is..., why you call the Supreme Lord? They think that Brahman being distributed, He is finished. This is Māyāvādī. He does not know the potency of God.
Yadubara: ...problem of suicide here, but in all schools all over the country.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are publicly suiciding, and others are silently suiciding. The suiciding policy is going on. Somebody manifests; somebody does not manifest. That's all. If the human life is wasted for sense gratification, that is suicidal. Because you got the opportunity of enlightenment and you live like dogs and cats, this is suicide. (break) This, what is called, hydrogen bomb manufacturer, he is thinking that he is successful in his life by discovering this hydrogen bomb. but he does not know how to save him from death. So it is suicidal.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if this is spiritual, spiritual means eternal. But this microphone will fall to pieces.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but scientifically it will keep the energy, conservation of energy. Even it is destroyed, it will remain. The material manifestation means bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It is sometimes destroyed and sometimes manifest. But the energy is there.
Indian man (2): And also remain in different form.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Just like this is earth. Now you prepare hundreds or thousands of earthen pots and dolls. When it is destroyed, again it is earth. So when it is manifested, it is earth. When it is not manifested, it is earth. So from the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa everything becomes manifested, and therefore originally it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir..., bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ: (BG 7.4) "It is My prakṛti, energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Because we forget Kṛṣṇa, therefore it appears material. (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha temple He immediately fainted. Did He see the wooden Jagannātha? It is a question of seeing and prepare the eyes to see.
Harikeśa: Everything is unmanifest in the beginning, manifest in the middle, and unmanifest at the end. So why should I care for anything in this lifetime?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: If it's all unmanifest in the beginning, it's only manifest in the middle, and it's unmanifest again at the end, why should I care about anything this life?
Prabhupāda: Then why you are making so much arrangement for sense gratification?
Harikeśa: Well, I can enjoy while I've got it.
Prabhupāda: But why... If it is not manifested, what is the enjoyment?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible by everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually, He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the assembly of Kurus, when Śiśupāla spoke against Kṛṣṇa being elected president of the assembly, Bhīṣma supported Him and proclaimed Him to be the Supreme God. Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others..."
Prabhupāda: Sisupala could not see, although Kṛṣṇa was present there, but Bhisma could see. So you require special eyes.
Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa is Parthasarathi, Rādhā is out of Him? Does it mean?
Indian man (1): What you mean, Parthasarathi is Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Yes. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir āhlādini-śaktir. When He is fighting, the āhlādini-śakti is there. It is not manifest.
Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda. At the time of sleeping, there is a subtle reality that the subtle body enters into?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Reality means as you take this awakening vision as reality, similarly, the dream vision is also real.... Nothing, none of them are reality. They are all temporary.
Yadubara: But that subtle reality is just as real as this gross reality?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll not stay. This reality will not stay.
Hari-śauri: It's all a dreamlike existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply a long duration dream. Do you think this skyscraper building will stay? Nothing will stay. It may stay for five hundred years or five thousand years. But is it not permanent. Anything you take—the trees, this land, nothing; even this ocean. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It appears again and again disappears, that's all. Everything. The material world means that. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. Vyaktāvyaktam. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. This town is manifested, and one big wave of sea, it will be nonmanifested, immediately.
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were painting one painting for the last volume of Seventh Canto which shows that Kṛṣṇa is in the heart of all living entities. Now, the question came up whether Kṛṣṇa.... Since Kṛṣṇa is inside every atom, are there living entities in every atom? So I said that you had already answered that, that Kṛṣṇa is never alone, so there must be some living entity within the atom. So then the question was: Is this atom one of the bodies, just like human body, and then gradually that living entity gets a higher body, higher body, or does he always remain inside the atom?
Prabhupāda: Body does not develop. He changes body. Why don't you understand this?
Rāmeśvara: He changes body.
Prabhupāda: The motorcar does not develop. I change this motorcar to another.
Rāmeśvara: But that's the question.
Prabhupāda: That is Darwin's theory. Motorcar is not developing to big motorcar. That is nonsense. Motorcar is motorcar, but I can change from this car to that car.
Hari-śauri: Yes, that's what he was wondering, whether the spirit soul leaves the atom to take another higher body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is always.... Transmigration means going on, simply changing.
Rāmeśvara: Is that counted as one of the 8,400,000 species? Is the atom counted among the different species?
Prabhupāda: Atom is not manifested. May be one of the species, but the total is 8,400,000. What is the difference between the small atom and this body? The same thing, material. It's very small; it is a little bigger. That's all. And similarly, the universe is still bigger. After all, it is matter. (break) ...prakṛti. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). What is this? He's standing on election? (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In this connection, one quality that is quite visible is the, that matter in association with life, there is a constant flow of matter that biologists describe as metabolism. Means we eat some food, and then prasādam is digested in specific ways by so many chemical reactions in the body. But that happens only...
Prabhupāda: That is also stated, ahaṁ vaiśvānaro bhūtvā pacāmy annaṁ catur-vidham. That digestion is also helped by God. Is it not? Ahaṁ vaiśvānaro bhūtvā pacāmy annaṁ catur-vidham. Is it not in the Bhagavad-gītā?
Hari-śauri: Yes, "I am the fire of digestion."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that differentiates also the simple matter without life. For example, sometimes it has been asked whether a crystal is alive or not. This is confusing to the scientists. Sometimes they say that a crystal is behaving just like a living body, it grows and this and that, they say. But actually there is no flow of matter. That tells us that crystal is not life. There's a fundamental difference. The last point in this connection is that matter is impersonal and life has personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that implies that matter is unconscious and the life is fully conscious.
Vṛṣākapi: It's been said sometimes, Prabhupāda, that you have said that some rocks have life. Some rocks, some stones, are actually souls in them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the tree there is spirit soul. Everywhere there is spirit soul, but development of consciousness makes difference. The difference between the tree and man is that man is developed consciousness. Consciousness is developed. Tree is not developed. That is difference, but life is there both in the tree and in man.
Rūpānuga: What about the crystal? The crystal grows, but we don't say that the crystal has life in the usual sense of the term. Is the crystal also...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like diamond.
Rūpānuga: Like diamond, crystal.
Prabhupāda: Anywhere, wherever there is growth, there is life.
Rūpānuga: So there the consciousness is simply not manifest.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: In crystal form. Like the stone does not show consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are two kinds of life. Sthāvara-jaṅgama. Sthāvara means stationary. The stone is also stationary. It never moves. Big mountain, even though it has got life, it is stationary. And a small ant, it is not stationary. It is moving. So there are two kinds of life, stationed and moving. Sthāvara-jaṅgama.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One last question, this stone thing. Now as a devotee we know that matter is also eternal in the form of pradhāna, described in Third Canto in...
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have already explained, there are two energies. So if the energetic is eternal, the energy is also eternal. But the difference between the inferior and superior means one is manifested eternally and one is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. That is inferior. The matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Just like the cloud. What is this cloud? Cloud is also manifestation of the energy of the sun, is it not? But it is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. So that is the difference between the inferior and superior. Both of them are energies of the sun. But the cloud is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. But as energy, they are coming from the same source. (break) ...but matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Therefore it is inferior. And life is always manifested, therefore superior. I am soul, I am eternal. But this body is manifested now. It is existing eighty years or hundred years, but this body will be finished, finished forever. Then again another matter manifests. But I am the soul, eternal, this body or that body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). He is ever-manifest, either this body or that body, it doesn't matter. That is eternity. That is superior energy.
Devotee: Prabhupāda? You explained that all those forms are already existing. What is the meaning of all those forms if there is no one inhabiting them? Why is it that they all exist without...
Prabhupāda: No, no, how you can say nobody is inhabiting?
Devotee: You said that they are there, you just go to the different forms. So that means they are existing without anyone living there?
Prabhupāda: No, form, a class of form. It can be immediately, that A class, B class, C class, D class. So if you are fit for D class, immediately form for you, a D class body is there, made.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is also existing in the sense that in the unmanifested form, before it is manifested, the form is there.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is species. Form is there already. They are existing. So you require to get another form, but the same class. First-class compartment is there. If it is, one bogey is already, first-class filled up, then railroad company brings another bogey and gives place to the passengers. That's all, there is no difficulty. What is the difficulty? Put him into this particular mother's womb and he gets a form, that's all. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). Don't compare Kṛṣṇa's power with your power. He can do anything, anyone, immediately.
Hari-śauri: What he is saying is back to front then. If earth has all the elements in it, then the other one says you go successively back, should have one less. So why is it water has earth in it when earth is the last one to be produced?
Prabhupāda: Not visible.
Rūpānuga: Oh, it's not manifest
Prabhupāda: Yes, not manifest.
Rūpānuga: So earth is in a nonmanifest state in the water, and when you analyze water sometimes you can analyze and produce little particles of earth. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Everything is there. Not prominent, that's all.
Rūpānuga: So the main characteristic then is the water that is prominent.
Prabhupāda: Just like the skin, you cannot find water, but there is water.
Rūpānuga: So earth is prominent.
Prabhupāda: Just like you cut the skin, the blood will come. What is the blood? That is water.
Sadāpūta: That is mineral water, it has minerals in it.
Prabhupāda: That may be, but it is water.
Prabhupāda: We can prove it that how by the sunshine everything is growing. How it is? Your molecule and so on, so on... You can describe. Actually, from the sunshine the trees are growing, leaves are coming. As soon as there is no sunshine, immediately they fall down, the leaves, and the tree becomes without any leaves. How this happens? The same process. The sunshine produces so many things. Similarly, by the glance of the Supreme, the material nature becomes agitated and the three guṇas become manifest. In this way these are described there. The same process. How from the sunshine the leaves are coming out, what are the molecular changes, if you can study the same process.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) ...with this hiraṇmaya, the relationship between mahat-tattva and the hiraṇmaya is clear, then I think we can have some idea. So we are little confused on this very point. It is also said pradhāna is the twenty-four elements that doesn't contain time.
Prabhupāda: Pradhāna is the ingredient.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is the sum total of the unmanifested material elements. Now from pradhāna actually mahat-tattva is manifested. In mahat-tattva there is a basic difference that there is some, already some manifestations in mahat-tattva.
Rūpānuga: Categories.
Prabhupāda: Total material elements, mahat-tattva.
Rūpānuga: Is that differentiated?
Prabhupāda: Mahat-tattva is differentiated.
Vāsughoṣa: "Yet there is another nature which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is."
Prabhupāda: That is sanātana.
Pradyumna: "For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) You are expecting happiness by thinking of impersonal form of the Lord. That is not possible. You simply get troubles, that's all. (Hindi) What is the purport?
Pradyumna: "The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord are called jñāna-yogis, and persons who are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service to the Lord are called bhakti-yogis. Now here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed."
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa personally says bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). (Hindi) If you like to tolerate adi-kleśa, that is your choice. Otherwise, Bhagavān, sac-cid-ānanda...
- śrī vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-
- śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau
- yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi
- vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam **
(Hindi) You can accept any way. That is your choice.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hari-śauri: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible to everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)
Prabhupāda: If one understands, then he becomes immediately liberated. And the atheists, they cannot understand, so they remain always conditioned. If actually one understands Kṛṣṇa's, he's liberated immediately. He's simply waiting for changing this body. That's all. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). One who has understood Kṛṣṇa is liberated. Jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate: "Even in this life he is mukta." Find out that, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "You rascal, if you could understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you would have been liberated. And if you were liberated, then you would not ask this question. You do not know Kṛṣṇa, neither it is possible for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. You remain in darkness."
| Page Title: | Unmanifested (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 11 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=34, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 34 |