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Unless there is... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Even socially, though, without religious, scientific, practical God consciousness, how can there be a civilization? How can anyone know that there's a difference between right and wrong or morality unless there is God consciousness, to know that someone is watching everything I do? If you avoid that.... Just like we say, they want Rāma-rājya without Rāma. But they want the rājya.

Prabhupāda: Now, the laws and legislative assembly there are, and there is punishment, there is court—everything there is. That we were discussing last night, that where is the honest men? Why? In spite of laws, legislative assembly, court and everything, the wholesale rogues and dishonest. Then what is the use of this? What is your answer? Why you are checked on the airport just like a culprit, criminal? They cannot trust even a gentleman, although he is educated, may be holding very good office, but still, he is not to be trusted. So this is the result of your so-called function, that there is no honest man throughout the whole world. Then, what is the use of such education? And what is the use of their living? Let them die. No hospital for them.

Acyutānanda: A man in Calcutta, he was a devotee, rich also. He had some kidney thing. He wanted to go to the Calcutta hospital. They said, "All the beds are full of Naxalites with bomb wounds and stab wounds and fighting wounds."

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Acyutānanda: He could not get a bed in the hospital because it was full of guṇḍās. Hospitals were all full of guṇḍās.

Yaśodānandana: In America they have the highest quality of hospitals and schools and everything, but yet the young people are turning to be hippies. You have mentioned that in the introduction to your Nectar of Devotion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. What is the use of such education?

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Harikeśa: If the government is giving them free homes and we're giving them free prasādam, why should they work?

Prabhupāda: They should work for Kṛṣṇa.

Harikeśa: But there is one economist. I think you've quoted him, John Kenneth Galbraith. He says that if there's no.... If somebody is supplied with a place to sleep and something to eat, why should he work? That he won't work unless there is some motivation. If he's forced to work, he will work. Otherwise he won't work.

Prabhupāda: No. Your preaching is not meant for creating a lazy class of men. You have to engage them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness business. That is preaching.

Mahāṁsa: Then you feed them prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and then give him prasādam. He will be automatically purified, and offer himself for service.

Harikeśa: So they have to chant first.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: Then they will say, "Well, you are proselytizing by rice."

Prabhupāda: I am not proselytizing. I am bringing him...

Acyutānanda: Unless they take to your religion...

Prabhupāda: ...to his original consciousness.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: No, they do not know what is nature. Nature is an instrument, and there must be an operator. So that they do not know, the operator. Just like a child is thinking the motorcar is going automatically. He does not know there is a driver. The child sees that the airplane is flying. They think it is automatically going. And there is a pilot, he does not know. Similarly, these rascals, they are studying nature, but nature is an instrument only. It is being operated by Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). They have practical experience that without operator a machine cannot work. In the huge machine, how it is working unless there is operator? That they do not know.

Gurukeśa: That's what they never trying to find.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Find out this verse. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mūḍha. Therefore they are all mūḍhas. So we are not going to be misled by the mūḍhas. That is not possible. We take the instruction of the topmost intelligent person, Kṛṣṇa. I think our Svarūpa Dāmodara has said that. Where is that book? He has given: "Kṛṣṇa, the topmost scientist." Yes. "Perceiving the supreme scientist, Śrī Kṛṣṇa." He has given this article.

Acyutānanda: How do we know that Vedavyāsa is not defective like other living beings?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Acyutānanda: How do we know that Vedavyasa is not...

Prabhupāda: He is not defective because he is speaking what he has heard from Nārada. Therefore he is not defective. Just like we are speaking. We are not perfect. We are also ordinary human being, but people are taking that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has done wonder." What is that wonder? I am speaking Bhagavad-gītā as it is, that's all.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But they have to accept because they cannot do it.

Dr. Patel: We give you health, sir, from the disease. We don't...

Prabhupāda: You cannot give health. Why he is dying?

Dr. Patel: Dying is not health. We talk of health and disease, not of the death and life.

Prabhupāda: No. Unless there is some disease you do not die.

Dr. Patel: No, what is disease? Disease is something...

Prabhupāda: Again you are coming to...

Dr. Patel: ...that is not physiological. The end of physiology is death.

Prabhupāda: So why you are trying to cure it?

Dr. Patel: We don't try to cure it. We.... According to our whim, we try to help nature's natural process. Who knows? We may be going against nature, for all that. We don't know.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the value of your health if you do not save him?

Dr. Patel: The value of the health is being found out the whole over.

Prabhupāda: That is, I am asking you. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is in ignorance. Combination of matter and soul, moving animals. Some of them are standing as trees and plant, and some of them are moving. Where is the science to study? What is your value of knowledge? Hm? If they do not know the fundamental things, then what is the value of their knowledge? Simply observation, superficial, externally. There is good scope. They are receiving these books. We should take chance of preaching this Bhāgavatam, and the classes should be held especially.... No, the religious classes are already there. Let them study Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And they will accept it. They are not fools. Simply we have to introduce it. The Western people, they are not fools, but misguided. So you take the charge of guiding them; then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be successful. They will appreciate, they will take it up and reform, and their life will be successful. And if they utilize their intelligence how to reduce population and kill child within the womb and "There is no soul in the womb. When they come out then the soul becomes"—what is this nonsense? Unless there is soul, how it becomes manifest?

Hariśauri: It's obvious. If the body is growing within the womb, there must be life there.

Prabhupāda: The same process is going on from the very beginning. A body is formed and it develops. The child is born.... The same process is going on. How do you say there is no soul? If there is no soul, how it has developed within the womb? Such rascals, they are passing on as big scientists. What is the reason they don't believe that there is no soul?

Harikeśa: They have really no argument.

Prabhupāda: Just see. All dogmatic. All dogmatic foolishness they are propagating, and it is going on in the name of vijñāna, science.

Hariśauri: If they admitted the existence...

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless.... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land: "You take land as much as you like and produce but on condition that when there is war you have to join."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Europe that was the system also.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere that was the system. That is called.... What is called?

Harikesa: Feudalism?

Prabhupāda: Feudalism, yes. What is this nonsense, maintaining so many idle men without any profit? Very, very bad system. And nowadays especially, when there is atomic energy, what is the value of the soldiers?

Harikesa: We need the soldiers to start.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is also nature. Everything is nature. Are you outside nature? That is another nonsense. Your body is nature; your activities are nature; everything is nature. How you can say you are out of nature? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). He has got some intelligence, I have got some intelligence, but the intelligence is coming from nature. Otherwise how you are intelligent? Somebody is intelligent; somebody is dull. Unless there is some background, how do you find the difference? Here you see some flower is red, some flower... Why? How it is being done? You cannot say "automatically."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we say... We agree, everything came originally from some elements.

Prabhupāda: That "some" He has explained. He is God.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we don't... We say that those elements were always there. There is no need of any creator of those elements. They were always there.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are the basic elements.

Prabhupāda: Yes, "always there," but there must have been creation of these elements. Just like in the laboratory, you... Soda bicarb. Carbonate mixed with soda makes soda bicarb. Sulfuric acid. You take sulphur and turn into acid by mixing with something else. That is going on.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is called makṣī maṇḍa kanani. (?) A clerk was making a fair book from the rough book. So he went to the toilet room and he was... Like this. So all of a sudden his boss came: "What you are doing here?" "Sir, I am trying to capture one fly." "And why?" "No, I am making the fair copy of the book, but in the original book, there is a fly smashed. (laughter) So I have to paste one fly." There are such fools. Makṣī maṇḍa kanani. "There is a fly, paste. So in the fair copy, there must be a fly, paste." (break) Yes. Unless there is pūjārī, what is the meaning of temple?

Jayapatākā: Separate?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is actual temple.

Jayapatākā: Well, they'll be so many brāhmaṇas being made.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jayapatākā: Everything... Even he includes Buddha and Kalki.

Hari-śauri: All the incarnations as well.

Jayapatākā: I... In the last...

Prabhupāda: Daśāvatāra.

Jayapatākā: Fifty-three avatāras.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-three?

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: So therefore the essence of the philosophy must be there. And you have also said that the meaning of disciple means discipline, so the devotees have to be trained certain disciplines in their devotional life.

Prabhupāda: Discipline... Disciple means discipline. The word discipline comes from disciple, or disciple comes from discipline. So unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. This discipline must... That should be uniform. Otherwise, śiṣya... Śiṣya, the word śiṣya, it comes from the root, verb, śās-dhātu. Śās. Śās means ruling. From this word, sasana. Sasana means government. Śāstra. Śāstra means weapon, and śāstra, scripture, and sisya... These things have come from the one root śās-dhātu. So śās-dhātu means ruling under discipline. There is another English word, that "Obedience is the first law of discipline," or something. They say, "Obedience is the first law of discipline"? So I am right? "Obedience is..."? That is the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's more or less what it is.

Prabhupāda: No, what is the word, exact. There is an English word. "Obedience is the first law of discipline." So unless there is obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And unless there is discipline, there is no question of disciple. Disciple means one who follows the discipline. So...

Siddha-svarūpa: So there is no disagreement with that. I have no disagreement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the point. That is...

Morning Walk -- March 10, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Then. What is your proposal? They should go away?

Madhudviṣa: Unless there is association, then they will never become purified.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who says they won't asso...? What is this discussion? This is not...

Madhudviṣa: It's not a resolution.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is not a good discussion either.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, but this is basically the problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not the problem, because everyone comes together in a temple for kīrtana, for lectures, for prasādam. These things are common activities. There's no question that we should not have common activities between all the āśramas. These are the common ac... But for living, there must be separate arrangement.

Prabhupāda: Now, even in the temple, you were complaining, the husband and wife were talking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's living. That means living. That is not... They're not talking Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: That...

Bhavānanda: Separate woman's house, separate man's house.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Make it more.... Therefore I wanted first of all this house, not the temple, because where they'll stay? They'll come to the temple. Where they will stay? If you get staying place, then you can act your brain and improve. And if you are harassed—no place—then brain will not work. Therefore I wanted first of all the residential place. And they criticize me, "Oh, you did not construct temple first." And a temple of the devotees is first, our temple. Then God. God will come if there are devotees. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyantī mad-bhaktāḥ. Unless there is devotee, where is God? God is not a stone. Any stone is God? Unless there is devotees, there's no God. Therefore, without devotee: the idol, this is idol worship. That is not worship. Therefore they cannot understand what is the form, what is the distinction between form of the Lord and idol. They do not know how to worship in devotion. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). They are thinking, "It is stone, and God is remaining here, stone. He will never speak," because they are not devotee. If you become devotee.... Just like Sākṣī Gopāla. For devotee He went to give witness, "Yes, I'll walk." That is God. And if you are not devotee, how you can expect the stone statue is walking? You have read that Sākṣī Gopāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gopāla was saying that "You are asking Me to go to give witness. Do you think a statue can go?" So he is devotee. He said, "Yes, if statue can speak, he can go also." So he had firm faith. So Kṛṣṇa had pledged him, "Yes, I'll go."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you also have that firm faith, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, without firm faith there is no beginning of God worship.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So you can send me at half past one?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, yes, it can be kept warm very easily. Hot capatis, he says, for hundreds of people.

Prabhupāda: Hot. That is wanted. That I had asked. Therefore it is so filling.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everything is hot. (break) ...so...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Prasādam, when it is supplied from the temple, in any condition it is prasādam. So communists should be impressed that "You are trying to establish a perfect society. That is your philosophy. So unless there is perfect leader, how you can establish?" This is the way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we know what the qualities of a perfect leader are. "We don't find that you have any such persons."

Prabhupāda: No, phalena paricīyate, by result. (kīrtana as they approach temple) (end)

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, no, the point is that in the Commandment it is clearly said, "Thou shall not kill." So what does it mean? That unless there is absolute necessity, we shall not kill.

Guest (2): I think that's right, and I feel that way.

Prabhupāda: So when.... At least in America or any civilized country, there is ample food for human being. Why they should kill? If you can live without killing cows, if you can utilize cows in a different way.... Just like we are maintaining a farm—not one, many. They are maintaining cows and we are getting enough milk. And from milk we can prepare varieties of palatable, vitaminous, nutritious food. And that is very, very enjoyable. So let the animal live and take the milk, and just like we.... None of us, we take meat, but we are not dying. We are having so many nice preparation from milk, from grains, from fruit. Besides that, our another principle is that we offer to God. So God said that "Give Me vegetables, milk," like that. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we offer these things, and we take the leftover. That is our principle. We are not after killing or not killing. We are simply after obeying the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is our. So Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me food from the vegetables." So we offer Him very nice, palatable dishes and eat. This is our principle. So even while eating, we remember God: "Kṛṣṇa has so nicely eaten this. Let me take the remnants." So while eating, we are remembering God. So if God said that "You remember Me always," we can do it. He has explained how to remember Him. He said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: (BG 7.8) "I am the taste of the water." So when you drink.... Who is not drinking water? At least three times, four times we drink water, everyone. So when you drink, and the water quenches your thirst, and you feel some taste nice, Kṛṣṇa says, God says, "I am that taste." So where is my difficulty to remember God? If you simply remember this formula, that "The taste of the water is Kṛṣṇa," immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. "I am the shining of the sun, shining of the moon."

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if he does not obey.

Guest (2): If he does not obey them he is breaking the orders of God.

Prabhupāda: So then these question do not arise at all, because he does not know what are sins and what are to be avoided and how to love God. These things required. There is a process. Just like if you want to love a girl or a girl wants to love you, there is a process. Unless there is no love. If you do not follow the process.... Suppose.... These are the general principles. If you love somebody you give something, some presentation. That you have given me, the presentation. It is a question of love. You are not giving to anyone, but you have got some love. So you give something to God. The first question of love is that "What you are giving to God?"

Guest (2): What am I giving to God?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): Well, I want to give everything...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You want to, but practically what you are giving?

Guest (2): What am I giving now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I mean to say, anyone. Here.... Here is a process. Just like in our temple they have dedicated everything to God, the life.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Out of millions and millions people one has the necessity for Kṛṣṇa. (break) Material scientists, they are creating necessities, television, and they are thinking advanced. What is the use of television? There is no use. But this is advanced civilization.

Hari-śauri: In relative terms.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is necessity, what is the advancement? There is dull matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Apareyam. The dull matter is inferior energy. And the anya-prakṛti, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho, the living entities, they have got necessities. Dull matter, there are no necessities. The more one is dull, his necessities are less. And those who are advanced, his necessities begin.

Hari-śauri: Well, they use.... They argue that, say like in India, where there's no great material development...

Prabhupāda: Then we shall judge the quality of necessity. That is another thing. First of all necessities, then quality.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First of all we have to understand that one who has no necessity, he's in the lowest status. One who has got necessity, he is in higher status.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then higher, higher, higher, higher—where's the higher status? When you necessitate Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Morning Walk -- May 31, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The authorities say?

Devotee (1): What do they say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): It says that.... (break) ...possibility of an object staying in motion unless there's a person to move it. So therefore the conclusion is that these planets cannot stay in motion unless there is a supreme mover.

Prabhupāda: So he accepts God.

Devotee (1): (break) ...the fact that there's no need to worship God, the fact that there's a need to worship man, because man is actually the center of the universe instead of God as the center of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Why do you fight? Why do you fight? Is there no obstacle, why do you fight?

Devotee (1): Simply that it's human nature.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Worship God by fighting?

Hari-śauri: Then it becomes a question of who's the best man.

Prabhupāda: God, but you shouldn't fight with Him. But these rascals say worship man, but why does he fight with man? Another...

Devotee (2): (break) Actually there was a boy sitting like that, and a shark came and bit off his leg while he was sitting there.

Devotee (1): (break) ...they still think that...

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you are helping me. (pause) Who can create such fragrance except Kṛṣṇa? (devotees laugh) Fragrance is coming from here, from the dirt, muddy dirt, and fragrance is coming. Unless there is fragrance, how it came here? The color is coming, the beauty is coming, the fragrance is coming, the arrangement is coming along the stem. Where is that scientist? They are seeing every day, and "There is no God." Just see, how foolish they are. You do it.

Kīrtanānanda: In the future.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) That is another bluff.

Kīrtanānanda: Post-dated check.

Prabhupāda: Even if you do in future, what is credit? It is already done by somebody.

Hari-śauri: They're just copying.

Rādhā-vallabha: They can create fragrance: simply the bad smell of their bodies.

Prabhupāda: "In future." They're competing with God, and without being success, still: "I am God." What kind of God you are? And foolish men have no sense; they accept such rascals as God. They do not see what is God. How beautiful flowers, how nice arrangement. You cannot manufacture even one fiber, and still you deny God. Mūḍha. He's speaking, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10), "Under My supervision everything is being done." And you have got experience that unless one supervises, nothing can be done very nicely. So these things are being done under some expert supervision. This part is green and this part it is red. Two colors are being transferred, transmitted. The flavor is not here, but here. What is this arrangement? There is no brain?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The qualification.

Jayādvaita: When we present the real idea, then they're just sitting there, they have no argument. And then we challenge their system, that "What is the purpose of your society? What is the goal of it?" and they can't say anything.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is division of activity, nothing can be done perfectly well. The natural division is there in the body—the head, the arms, the belly and the legs. Similarly, in the social body also there must be the heads, the intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa. Then everything will go on smoothly. And, at the present moment, there is no intelligent class of men. All laborer, worker class of men, fourth class. No first class, second class. Therefore society is in chaotic condition. There is no brain.

Jayādvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Makhanlāl: In the Upadeśāmṛta, in the eleventh verse, it says that if one takes his bath even once in the Rādhākuṇḍa he immediately awakens his love for Kṛṣṇa. I was wondering, some of those who have had the opportunity to take bath in Rādhākuṇḍa, it seems though it may take some time. I was wondering, is that because we don't see time in the proper perspective?

Prabhupāda: Why do you go to Rādhākuṇḍa? Unless there is some awakening of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break)

Devotee (1): ...he's a rich man's son, but he's walking without shoes just like a sādhu. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...was the president of Ann Arbor temple. I told him what you were thinking. You think you really want to go to Ann Arbor?

Prabhupāda: Not necessary. (indistinct) (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...God, Christ, they believe that Christ is God, some Christians.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Many different understandings.

Satsvarūpa: Some say he's a perfect man. Some say a son of God or he's actually God. (break) ...a spirit within.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...Holy Ghost is like Brahman and Paramātmā. All-pervading God and God within the heart speaking.

Satsvarūpa: And Jesus Christ is the only son of the Lord, and he's the Lord also at the same time.

Hari-śauri: And they say he has a material body, and he is God incarnated into flesh.

Prabhupāda: We also say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ.

Satsvarūpa: The guru is as good as God. And only by the guru...

Prabhupāda: But he's servant.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because, I have got this life, you have got this life, so we shall give up this body, we have to accept another body. We have to enter again in the womb of the mother, and packed up for so many months. And nowadays there's a risk of losing life also. The mother is killing child.

Scheverman: There's an area hopefully where we might be able to cooperate, this area of slaughter, senseless slaughter.

Prabhupāda: So many things. It is going on. So unless there is first-class man, who will guide them?

Kern: I think you ought to eliminate the second-class man who are soldiers. If you're training a man to be a soldier, he wants to fight.

Prabhupāda: That's all right; fighting is also required. When there is enemy, we are not discarding fighting. Fighting there will be. So long we are in the material world, there will be disagreement and there will be fight. You cannot stop it; that is not possible. So a class of men, they should be trained up fighting. A class of men, they should be trained up for teaching. A class of men for producing food. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). There are so many things. If you take advantage of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement cooperatively, it will be very, very good for the whole human society. And if your America takes up this call very seriously, others will follow.

Scheverman: Well I would be very interested, as the man who lives across the street right over here, pastor of St. Mark's parish, in talking with your local leadership and discussing whatever programs you are interested in working in this particular community. And I think perhaps...

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Viśvakarmā: I can arrange it with Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa? When you're available?

Prabhupāda: Yes. After ten. (japa) (break).... lights are working in order, unless there is some supervision above this lightning system. If somebody says, "This is going on automatically," is that very sane? Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Light is matter, combination of glass and iron, and it is going on with order without any upper supervision? How these rascals say like that? Because immediately they do not see who is pulling on the wire, "There is no (indistinct)." How poor knowledge they have. And they are passing on scientist. Why you are stopping car if there is no supervision? You can pass on, nobody will see. Why one is afraid of not transgressing?

Satsvarūpa: They know the authority is there.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, how you think there is no authority? There is no sinful, and there is no..., everything is all right? Go on. Go to hell.

Jagadīśa: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was young I was brought up in the Catholic church, and I learned to fear God, and be afraid of God. But then as I went to high school, due to...

Prabhupāda: .... association, everything is bad(?). So degraded condition, there is no good association. Therefore I say that we require a first-class man section. A first-class.... All third class, fourth class. Even the so-called priests, they are also fourth-class, fifth-class men. Indulging in homosex.

Satsvarūpa: This priest who joined us, who's now your man, he said that although he was a priest, he smoked three packs of cigarettes a day and drank all kind of wine. He began to drink wine, he said, because in their mass, in their ceremony, the priest drinks wine. And then then he became addicted.

Prabhupāda: These rascals are priests. And they'll protect religion.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Why defense? Man to man. That means they are dogs. The dogs defend from another dog. Is it not? As soon as they see another dog, (growls) yow, yow, yow. So then where is the defense between man to man?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're worried now that they won't be able to disarm, the article was saying, because, somehow or another, there's going to be a disaster unless there is immediate disarmament. But they don't think it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No. How they can disarm? They have been trained up like dogs to bark and fight. How there can be disarmament?

Hari-śauri: They've been talking about disarmament for who knows how long.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: They've been talking about disarmament for years and years together. But they're simply increasing. There's no disarmament.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even within the different religions they are fighting amongst each other.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This religion is also bogus. How the dogs can understand religion? It is simply woax.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply?

Prabhupāda: Woax, woax, what is called? Woax?

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."

Reporter: "What is the actual duty of the government?"

Prabhupāda: "To understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim"—that's the caption they put up here also, "The actual duty of government is to understand what God wants and to see that society works towards that aim"—"then people will be happy. But if the people work in the wrong direction, how can they be happy? The government's duty is to see that they are working in the right direction. The right direction is to know God, to act according to His instruction. But if the leaders themselves do not believe in the supremacy of God, and if they do not know what God wants to do or what He wants us to do, then how can there be good government? The leaders are misled, and they are misleading others. That is the chaotic condition in the world today."

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, just like a machine, it can be complicated. But as soon as you put the plug, gada-gada-gada-gada comes. But the electricity is not complicated, the machine is complicated.

Rūpānuga: So it doesn't work unless there is some....

Prabhupāda: Without electricity it does not work. But the machine is complicated, not the electricity.

Rūpānuga: One thing is that the machine, in this example, gets complicated or it becomes...

Prabhupāda: Complicated means it is made in different parts with matter, that's all. But it cannot work without the electric power.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the conclusion is that matter, when touched by life or spirit, actually it becomes complicated.

Prabhupāda: Not complicated, it is already complicated. It works.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, matter itself is not complicated. Matter itself is not complicated.

Prabhupāda: Yes, complicated. When they are combined together.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even if it is complicated, this matter itself touched by life is more complicated.

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it is.

Prabhupāda: Just like electricity. Electricity, when it is connected with the machine, it works. The machine is complicated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But it could be said that the machine is actually independent of the electricity.

Prabhupāda: No, how it is independent? Without electricity it has no value.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the same, the matter is the same.

Sadāpūta: Same body.

Rūpānuga: Well in a sense, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: There is no sense, try to understand. The body is complicated. But in spite of all this, it is useless unless there is life.

Rūpānuga: All right, so then in an embryo stage...

Prabhupāda: Any stage, it is, the whole thing is complicated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But you are saying that the soul is actually by nature very simple.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At least compared to the material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The soul is not complicated.

Sadāpūta: I believe what Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu is saying is that matter, each element studied by itself, has a simple structure, but when the body is formed with the soul, then it becomes apparently more complex; the chemical reactions become more complex.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Now all the religions refer to God as light. Most of the religions, and science agrees. Light is that very fugitive bit of energy that allows life to be possible.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is fire, wherefrom the light comes?

Bill Sauer: From the fire in the sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the fire is the source of light.

Bill Sauer: That's the source of light, yes.

Prabhupāda: So as soon as you say light, you must find out the source of light.

Bill Sauer: That's correct. You must destroy matter in order to create light.

Woman guest: What about water?

Dr. Sharma: You don't destroy any matter; it is transmutation.

Bill Sauer: Or, excuse me, I don't mean destroy, it's transmuted from matter to energy.

Dr. Sharma: That's the Einstein's equation, mcṟs11ūp6 2 is equal to mass and the speed of light, you described that. You can transmute matter, there is no matter destroyed or created.

Bill Sauer: That's correct. Matter and energy are really the same thing. It's another form, that's correct. So once you have light, you have the source of life, and then you have to have an enormously creative power to take the light, move it into a form which can become life. It started out as single cells in the ocean or simple chemicals in the ocean, then single-celled, then more complex celled, all with an extraordinarily complicated creative power causing the light to flow through, to create a new image, which is light. And it's very similar, as you understand the television picture has the same electromagnetic energy that we are. We, with our simple brains, can take electromagnetic energy, tune it, transmit it, retune it as a two-dimensional picture. The creative power in life has taken the same electromagnetic coming from the sun, and has tuned it in the form of living images, three-dimensional images, far, far more complicated than our simple television.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Because he's eating, and he is not able to go and hunt, they send them out to die.

Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they'll do. All old men should be killed. That time is coming. Don't become old. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are teaching us to remain young forever, Prabhupāda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One must become Kṛṣṇa conscious to become young.

Prabhupāda: So many difficulties will come unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want to be happy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's true. If people are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the origin(?) of these problems like death...

Bali-mardana: You are instructing us to finish up our business in this life.

Prabhupāda:

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve
na kutaścana bibhyati
svargāpavarga-narakeṣv
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ
(SB 6.17.28)

Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was put into so many dangerous conditions. He was not afraid. "Hare Kṛṣṇa," he would just chant.

Cyavana: All over the entire world we find the Indian community, practically speaking. Is this part of Lord Caitanya's plan to help spread this Vedic culture?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, that you speak the Vedic culture. That is India's mission. But these rascals, they are speaking technology.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gurudāsa: The moon planet is said to be higher planet, but sand is not...

Prabhupāda: No, no, they say that moon planet, there is sand. They have brought sand. I say, "Wherefrom the sand came unless there is water?"

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Devotee (1): Came from Arizona. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: Actually when they brought that dust, they said they brought that dust back, they made the point that it's just like the dust here. That's the same things again. You pointed out, "Why they are mentioning Arizona when they're talking about Mars?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: That means they've never been past Arizona.

Prabhupāda: All business is going on in Arizona.

Gurudāsa: You once said there is a gross and subtle part of the moon planet. Is that so? No.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: You said one who had qualification could get to the actual moon planet.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are trying to unify the so-called human beings, but you are keeping the poor animals for cutting their throat. This is your humanity. Because these poor animals cannot protest, so you are strong. And this is your humanity, you cut their throat and eat. But that is not humanity. Humanity is here mentioned: God is the seed-giving father all living entities. That is the fact. That is humanity. They do not know what is meaning by humanity. Here is the explanation, humanity. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless you come to that stage, there is no question of humanity. Artificially, you manufacture something and you think humanity. According to your convenience. "Let us combine together and exploit other living entities for our benefit." That is not humanity. They do not know what is humanity. Here is the explanation. How humanity can be established unless there is the understanding of the supreme father, how there is question of, how this question of brotherhood can come in? Here Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving father." So you try to understand this, then humanity. You cannot manufacture some ideas of humanity, imperfect, because you are imperfect. Here is perfect idea.

Dayānanda: How can we be convinced that this is perfect or that it's practical? Because both ideas seem to us to be theoretical. This idea of humanity as...

Prabhupāda: Theoretical? How it is theoretical. It is practical. You have no intelligence. Your, you say this is also theoretical. Did you not say? I say it is practical. It is practical. From that verse, if you have got brain, you study, you'll see that it is practical. If you are intelligent. But if you are dull, then you'll not understand. How it is practical? Here Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I am the seed-giving father." So do you think it is theoretical? Do you think?

Dayānanda: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I do not...

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, no, for argument's sake.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Unless there is a seed-giving father, how it is possible of a child simply by the mother? Is there any practical example? If one girl has given birth to a child, do you think the child is born without father? Eh? Is it possible?

Dayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore when Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the seed-giving father," what is the wrong there? No living entity can take birth without being seed-given by the father. Everywhere you see that without seed giving father how a child can take birth?

Dayānanda: How can we accept that situation, that...? Perhaps the creation is a special circumstance?

Prabhupāda: No special. Perhaps, this is impractical. Why do you say "perhaps"? That is nonsense. As soon as you say "perhaps," then you are rascal.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You'll have to show a practical example.

Prabhupāda: Yes, when you talking of practical things and you bring argument, "perhaps," then you are rascal, immediately. Give practical example, no "perhaps," "maybe," no. That argument will not do. These rascals are giving that argument, "perhaps," "maybe." That is not argument. Be practical when you talk of practical things. Practically you do not see that without father there is any child born, no. Either in the animals or in the human beings, or in the birds, everywhere. Seed-giving father is there.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacārī. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, and ultimately sannyāsa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Guest (5): I would rather request that you direct your efforts... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...guru.

Guest (5): Yes, sir.

Prabhupāda: If one goes in the village without any dress, without any, if he plays the part of Kṛṣṇa's and somebody plays the part of Rādhārāṇī, thousands of people will come. There is no need of film. Yatra-party.

Guest (4): Yatra-party, sir, in the films we do those...

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that mass of people will come. As soon as they hear that here is some play going on, Kṛṣṇa pastimes, still in India...

Guest (4): It is there, sir, so what my submission was that what we do as film producers and in this line of business, that we do it more on commercial basis. Gimmicks are there, castings are there, but then it is not so much educative. What your Prabhupāda wants to convey. If, as a member of...

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are associates. They are associating with Lord as calf, as cow. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). Nija-rūpa. (Guest speaks in Bengali, Prabhupāda English) In Vṛndāvana, the trees, the land, the water—everyone, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. That is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Cit-śakti. There are three energies: spiritual, material, and marginal. So Vṛndāvana affairs means expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Sac-cid-ānanda. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa, mellow. Everyone is trying to relish some mellow. Here in this material world we get family to taste some mellows. One kind of mellow is wife, one kind of mellow are children, one kind of mellow is the servants, one kind of mellow is the friends, one kind of mellow is the properties. They are all mellows, rasa. Unless there is some taste, why one should be hankering after all these things? Why one is hankering after some woman or some man or some friends or for children? One who has got no children, he's hankering after some child. He's expecting, "When I shall get a child?" The rasa. There is husband-wife rasa, but there is no rasa of the child. Therefore they are praying, "When we shall get a child?" So there is another rasa. So raso vai saḥ. He is the reservoir of rasas. So if we derive all the rasas from the Supreme, because He is the reservoir of rasas.

Mahāṁśa: Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu.

Prabhupāda: Akhila-rasāmṛta, yes. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So you can have all the rasas. That is the origin of bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. In bhakti, that rasa, you become in the ocean of rasa. You're hankering after rasas. There is a Vedic injunction, raso vai saḥ labdhvānandi ānandī.(?) One who has got the rasa, labdhvānandi, then he gets the real ānanda. That ānanda-cinmaya-rasa expansion is Kṛṣṇa's calves, cows, gopī friends, cowherd boy friends, Nanda, Yaśodāmāyi, so many. So to be Kṛṣṇa conscious means to participate with these rasas. It is not dry. It is not dry like, simply so 'ham, so'ham. So 'ham, they do not know the meaning. So 'ham means I belong to the same rasa. I also eligible to enjoy the same rasa. But Kṛṣṇa is... (break) ...and the calves, the cows are enjoying the rasa as predominated. Just like husband and wife, they are enjoying, both. But one is enjoying as the husband, predominator. The husband is forcefully dragging the wife. She's also... While she is dragged by force, she enjoys.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Caraṇāravindam. That the Englishmen were ruling over us. Now here is English boy, he's giving me massage and fanning me. What is the reason? Unless he feels something obligation, that "He has given us Kṛṣṇa," what business he has got? Not for him, for all of you, to give so valuable free service, unless there is this sense. What do you think? You have no obligation. You are European, American. I am Indian. It is through this via media Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Because they have got sense that "We have got God," therefore they are feeling so much obliged. Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no doubt about it. It is not yet ready?

Hari-śauri: They're making a plate now.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we shall follow strictly. Here is God. Take. Because if you are serious after God, here is God, take Kṛṣṇa. This is our philosophy. Hm? What is the answer? If he's serious about God. I think this paper wrote that, that Village? "We thought God is dead."

Hari-śauri: Greenwich Village.

Prabhupāda: East Village? That paper? Long ago.

Harikeśa: Village Voice. The Village Voice.

Prabhupāda: Aha, yes. They told first, that "We thought God is dead." And actually they were dancing in the name of God. Acyutānanda and Brahmānanda. You have seen the picture showing?

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So unless there is earthquake, they will not work.

Jagadīśa: No, that's not the Peace Corps.

Pradyumna: They send Peace Corps... Tejas was in Peace Corps. Tejas was in the Peace Corps. He was sent to India. In Telegu Nagara he was helping with agriculture. He would go to some village, underdeveloped. He would teach them how to plant nicely, fertilize, different things.

Hari-śauri: He knows about that?

Pradyumna: Yes, he knows all about agriculture.

Hari-śauri: Why don't we send him to Hyderabad?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: He worked there for about...

Prabhupāda: Let him go to Hyderabad.

Pradyumna: He knows all about agriculture.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Hari-śauri: And he speaks the language too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be (indistinct), you cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?

Jagadīśa: They are answering rains. (?)

Prabhupāda: What their answer, these rascals? Just like in Europe there is scarcity of water, they proposed to import, rascal. But there are so many oceans. So where is the scarcity of water? But why you cannot use it? Unless there is intervention by the nature's law you cannot do it. Therefore you are completely under the laws of nature. Nature will punish you, nature will reward you, according to your acts. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. You are falsely thinking that you are independent. A slight deviation from the laws of nature will put you into difficulty. Immediately there are... You can close this door. (break) ...population. In any case, one can be punished when the nature's supply is restricted. (break)

Jagadīśa: Third Chapter.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Surrender means agreement.

Mr. Malhotra: Agreement. Individuality will all along exist.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise why is he asking, "You surrender," unless there is individuality? Why this request is there? Because you are individual, you can deny it. That individuality continues. But if you have love for God, then you agree, "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73)." So that is wanted. Not that he lost his individuality. Individuality is there.

Mr. Malhotra: Individuality remains. It seems so, that the individuality remains.

Prabhupāda: And this is the fact, Kṛṣṇa says. What Kṛṣṇa says you have to accept. Otherwise, what is the use of reading Bhagavad-gītā? You cannot accept Bhagavad-gītā through your whims. That is nonsense. You must accept as it is. That is wanted.

Mr. Malhotra: This Satya Sai Baba, he is also disciple of Kṛṣṇa. How he produces...?

Prabhupāda: Then if he is disciple of Kṛṣṇa, he would not have foolishly said that he is Bhagavān. That means he is bogus. It is bogus... You cannot say... You are disciple... Just like they are my disciples. They will never say that they are equal to me. They will never say.

Mr. Malhotra: No, no, but what power he has got to produce just now...?

Prabhupāda: That anyone can do, magic, jugglery. It has no meaning.

Mr. Malhotra: He got you know this money.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he can get anything, but that is... Magic. That is... Magician also knows.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Professor Sarkar, a big magician, he kills, cuts people's body, then he joins them.

Prabhupāda: So many things. Magic jugglery is...

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."

Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...

Prabhupāda: And in politics, might is right.

Guest (1): Of course. Survival of the fittest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In politics you cannot become...

Guest (1): A sādhu. It is absurd. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: That is absurd.

Guest (1): Two contradictory terms.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Arjuna was ridiculed. "What is this nonsense?" Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam: "You have come to fight. You are talking nonsense, that 'I will not fight.' " Kṛṣṇa did not approve.

Guest (1): He told... He defined "What is your dharma and what is niṣkāma akarma." So it's very difficult to define dharma, but once it is defined, there should be no difficulty.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, I'm talking of Kṛṣṇa. There are many other talkers. We are concerned because we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means whatever Kṛṣṇa says, we accept. That is our philosophy. We may be fools and rascals, doesn't matter. But we accept what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Like a child, he's a child, he may be a fool. But when the father says, "My dear child, this is called microphone," and if the child says, "This is microphone," that is correct. Because he takes the word of the father who knows things. He may be child. So our business is like that. We don't claim ourself to be very learned, very advanced. We are fools and rascals. (break) "How can I become guru?" One may say. "I am not so learned, I am not so..." "No, no, you haven't got to bother. Still you can become guru." "How?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). If you simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said, then you become guru. That's all. So our business is that. We are guru not that because we are very learned, so-called Vedāntist. No. We are lowest of the lowest. But we are faithful to the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no other business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has ordered, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. Very easy. And that is being effective. Now because I am carrying these words of Kṛṣṇa throughout the whole world, perhaps I have done the best service than the combined so much Vedāntists. All the Vedāntists of India could not do that. That's a fact. How it has become possible? Because we are simply speaking what Kṛṣṇa has spoken. That's all. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa... That's all. I do not claim that I am Sanskrit scholar, I am this big man, that man, no. Whatever books I have written, only about this-Kṛṣṇa. In our book in every page you will find Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa. My Guru Mahārāja, if we used to write some article, so we wanted to show him how it is written. So he was very busy. So somebody would read and Guru Mahārāja would say, "How many times he has said 'Kṛṣṇa'?" (laughter) If he finds that in every page there is Kṛṣṇa, it is all right. That's all. (laughter) So we are making Vedāntist, "How many times he chants Kṛṣṇa?" If he chants always Kṛṣṇa, yes, he's Vedāntist. That's all. Bas. Because śāstra says, kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). That is being effective. These boys, their forefathers or their father, grandfather never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet. So unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no question of Vedānta. That is my point. (Hindi) That is real Vedānta. And the Vedānta says also... If you actually read Vedānta, what is the beginning of Vedānta? Boliye? What is the beginning?

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: Purpose is the same.

Prabhupāda: Language does not make united. This Bangladesh, they speak Bengali. They write Bengali. But why they are separate? America and England, they speak the same language. Why Washington declared independence? Australia, they have also declared independence from England just a piece of land. So there cannot be unity on any platform unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is impossible.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only thing that encompasses everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is false idea that by language, linguistic unity there will be... There are so many different examples. Pakistan, they speak Hindi also. Yes, they speak Hindi. And why there is separation? Bangladesh, they speak Bengali. Why they are separated from West Bengal? The linguistic unity is not... Any material platform, there cannot be unity. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break)

Hari-śauri: It's the white one. It's on my bed. (break)

Devotee: Hari-śauri is asking if you can take... (break)

Jagadīśa: Well, that doesn't mean I can. (break)

Indian lady: In our schools and college...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She'll understand Bengali. (Bengali) That explains. (Bengali)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then?

Jagadīśa: Mayi cānanya-yogena bhaktir avyabhicāriṇī.

Prabhupāda: This is possible when it is added with bhakti.

Yogi Amrit Desai: With bhakti. Then only.

Prabhupāda: Mayi ca. Ca means also. Simply practicing these things will not help. Unless there is bhakti, they'll not agree.

Yogi Amrit Desai: It's not complete.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It will not agree (avail?). One may be artificially tyāgī, but if there is no bhakti he'll fall down. Just like Viśvāmitra was a great yogi, but because there was no bhakti he fell down. He had relationship with Menakā and gave birth to Śakuntalā, such a big yogi. So he fall down, must fall down in māyā, because there is no bhakti. So they have so many cases we see, fall down. Then if you fall down, then where is your bhakti, jñāna? Nothing. But bhakti does not fall down. If he's really on the bhakti stage he does not fall down. Others must fall down. Must. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Then?

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their food. Karmis, they are compared with the camels. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ samstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Dr. Patel: I don't think, sir, there will be camels in Bengal because in Bengal is so many rivers.

Prabhupāda: No. No, there is no camel. And unless there is that thorny twig, they cannot live. That is their food.

Dr. Patel: In Gujarat you find these camels right at the Surat, south of the Gujarat. In north Gujarat they are very common. On the desert. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Darjeeling we were hiring these ho.... (break)

Gurudāsa: (whispers) Tape always runs out on places like that. (Hari-śauri laughs)

Prabhupāda: Mules, I have seen, if they stop, you can beat like anything; still, it will not move.

Gurudāsa: Yes. "Stubborn as a mule" is a proverb in the West.

Prabhupāda: I have seen. The soldiers are beating with the butts of the gun—still (laughter) not going. So many varieties of life we had to pass through, and with great fortune we get this human form of body. And that also we waste in the same business—punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), misguided. Labdhvā sudurlabham idam bahu-sambhavānte (SB 11.9.29). After many, many births this human form—people do not understand. Sudurlabham. Durlabham means rare, and sudurlabham means still...

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who cares for this Transcendental Meditation? They are not hogging any propaganda. It is coming this ear and going this ear. They don't care for it. So many others have gone. Who cares for them? They are not serious for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they know it is changing the whole civilization.

Haṁsadūta: There's that one verse you were saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that so many Brahmās may come and go...

Prabhupāda: Unless there is opposition, it is not genuine. It is not genuine or it is not serious. Opposition must be there. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead—there is opposition always, from the very beginning of His birth.

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa had all the opposition throughout His life.

Prabhupāda: Throughout His life. That means genuine Supreme Lord. Before His birth.

Dr. Patel: Before, yes. And after, He was cursed (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Śiśupāla was His cousin-brother.

Dr. Patel: Cousin-brother. (Sanskrit) If you consider that, He rose against all odds. Greater the opposition, better you become.

Prabhupāda: Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). God must be equal to everyone.

Dr. Patel: You are right. With that extreme faith, Jesus took to the cross. Huh? (break)

Prabhupāda: That is the greatness of the movement. (break)

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Rāmeśvara: And also the lawyers and psychologists are also organizing in their own fields nationwide committees just to defend us.

Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.

Rāmeśvara: They are getting everyone in America to ask the question, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?" Because of all their false propaganda, everyone is asking, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: And that is our triumph. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read that even the New York Daily News took a poll to find out. They were asking every person what they think about Hare Kṛṣṇa. Usually they only take polls for very important issues.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but it was terrible. (laughter)

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... How they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we are condemning, "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is.... Hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's our "suar kavaca." Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got, especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants.... Small kiddies for sex. That sex desire is so strong from the very beginning of.... And no sense that "It is my mother."

Hari-śauri: Yes, I've seen that in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nature's study gives the... And therefore Bhāgavata gives the example: "Don't work so hard simply for hog civilization." So if we use this word—it is very, very harsh for the Western people—"It is the hog civilization," actually it is so. But you cannot say. Satyaṁ priyaṁ vada... Unless it is palatable, you cannot say straight. That is... They take it seriously that "You are criticizing our mode of life." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Dr. Patel enters) Aiye, aiye, aiye. (Hindi—"Please come in")

Dr. Patel: You're not going to walk upstairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not yet six.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: But that's why I said... That is not possible, it seems, in a democracy. They have to have dictatorship.

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means people elected. If public wants that the election should be amongst the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, then it will be done. One man's ruling will not be possible unless there is dictatorship.

Gurudāsa: Consciousness must change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (train sounds) So this is the train.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Still, in some people there will always be some greed how to make money by sinful means.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is greedy. Therefore education required, spiritual. They should be greedy for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When they will see this is better position, so their greediness will be for Kṛṣṇa and other thing will be left away.

Rāmeśvara: And the state will not tolerate...

Prabhupāda: Four classes of sinful activities should be stopped by the state.

Rāmeśvara: No manufacturing liquor, cigarettes.

Prabhupāda: No.

Rāmeśvara: That must be stopped.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So unless there is enjoyment he cannot stick. But that enjoyment is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Just that chanting is enough. It's just so much nectar.

Prabhupāda: No, everything—Deity worship, chanting, kīrtana, preaching, publishing, distributing—everything.

Rāmeśvara: This requires superintelligence. Just like, say, in Los Angeles there are two hundred devotees. It is taxing our brains how to give proper engagement to every one of them.

Prabhupāda: Well, this engagement is: "Go and sell books." That engagement is already there.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but some are not qualified, some householders...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of quality, of... It doesn't matter whether he sells one book or hundred books. It doesn't matter. Let him be engaged, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: That's what I'm saying. To find the proper engagement, the best utilization of every man's...

Prabhupāda: This is very good engagement, very good engagement. Go door to door. I don't mind if you no sell. But you have gone. That's all. I don't mind. It is not business, that "Because you could not sell anything, your salary will be dismissed." No. There is no such question.

Rāmeśvara: But then they feel dissatisfied. Then they would prefer to do something else where they can perform better. They can accomplish something more.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no, no.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Special for this millennium. But the thing is going on like that, rotating.

Rāmeśvara: But in general, first it gets more and more degraded. Then it's all finished.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is degradation, there is no question of improvement. So this is going on. This is nature's way, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), appearance and disappearance.

Rāmeśvara: Now, this Kṛṣṇa conscious government... Will many of the things that are going on in America, like schools and education, teaching people to read and write...

Prabhupāda: They'll have to reform.

Rāmeśvara: That will all continue, but it will be adjusted so that Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Gurukula, Gurukula education.

Rāmeśvara: Still we'll be teaching subjects like history and math.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Without teaching, how the human society will exist? There must be.

Hari-śauri: No, he's talking about some of the subjects they teach now.

Rāmeśvara: Material science as well as spiritual science?

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. There is no need of so-called material science—how to kill children in the womb. These things will be kicked out. Nonsense.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Why you are trying for? Simply make a show? You are thinking already, but you do not know. Your world is your father, mother, and two sisters, that's all. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. That is your world. A little family, a little community, that is your world. We do not think in that way. We include even the animals, trees, plants-brothers. That is our philosophy. We feel. When you cut a tree unnecessarily, we feel. This is our feeling. Unless there is absolute necessity, we do not wish to kill even a tree, what to speak of animals. When in our Bombay the coconut trees were being cut, I was feeling actually: "Why unnecessarily the coconut trees...?" You cannot give anyone life, so how, what is living, you can kill? It may be tree or animal or plant. You cannot give him life. So you have to suffer for this.

Gargamuni: Can we go inside?

Satsvarūpa: He said it was open in the morning.

Gargamuni: See if we can go inside. (break)

Prabhupāda: I was going to purchase ticket, Māgha Melā. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."

Bhāgavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh, zoological.

Bhāgavata: Yes, zoological. All types. And on this side they have the lions, tigers, bears... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the forest and see actually. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Africa they're open.

Bhāgavata: Yes, in that national park in Nairobi.

Prabhupāda: The dog also knows that he's in the cage.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You find out that man. (Bengali) ...chai ne, drinking ne, smoking ne. It became too much inconvenience. Wife is separated. This is tapasya. It cannot be accepted by ordinary person. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya begins from brahmacarya. And brahmacarya means "no," so many. No "yes." Only "no's." "Not this, not this, not this." It is very difficult. Therefore the Americans are surprised: "How our sons have accepted so many 'no's' unless there is brainwash? And this man knows some mind control, and he's controlling their mind, independence. Bas. Deprogram. Capture them." This is the... "How our sons can accept so many 'no's'? " And important items—no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication. Everything, life, is no. (laughs) Rāyarāma said, "It is simply 'no's.' " He left. What is their daily necessity, all "no." The same thing is happening now, that "How they have accepted the 'no's'? It is brainwash, mind control." Lord Zetland said, when he was offered these "no's," he said, "Impossible for us. We cannot give up this." And I was also thinking in the beginning, that "As soon as I propose this 'no's,' they will say, 'Go home.' (laughs) No more preaching." And it is Kṛṣṇa's desire, they accepted so many 'no's.' I was not hopeful that these American young boys or gentlemen will accept these 'no's,' because I heard, "Lord Zetland said, 'It is impossible.' " If they go to a, one goes to a restaurant, he must find out one illicit woman. Is it not? It is not the practice, that they should go to a restaurant with one girl? Otherwise he's vagabond. (Bengali) He was ten years in London. He has good experience in villages. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Bengali) Sit down. (Bengali) "...that you cannot become happy without Me. Therefore I advise you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), aham tvāṁ sarva-pā-I'll give you..." (break) Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Therefore only intelligent person is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious. All fools. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. (Bengali) (break) One dayānika,(?) what is that? If he, that time, one paisa, if he could collect two annas, oh, he would encourage him like anything.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The material adjustment... Just like we felt little danger under the regime of Indira Gandhi. Now we have another feeling. This is material adjustment. Material adjustment may be temporary beneficial, but that is not permanent beneficial.

Mr. Rajda: Unless there is adhyātmika adjustment, there cannot be lasting benefit.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is... That we do not know. Just like you take a fish from the water and put it on the land. It will never become happy. Again you throw him in the water, he will feel happy. So the living entity is different from prakṛti. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtim. These material elements, earth, water, air, fire, ether, mind, intelligence, ego, these are gross and subtle material elements. And the living being, jīva-bhūta, is superior than the inferior material elements. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Parā-prakṛti, it is part and parcel of God. Unless we understand this fact, which is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, this material adjustment will never make us happy.

Mr. Rajda: As far as this change is concerned, the basic difference is formerly there was no moral code observed by the rulers.

Prabhupāda: It can deteriorate at any moment.

Mr. Rajda: That interpretation is there, that is there.

Prabhupāda: You cannot say...

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: That's a novel thing, no, novel thing.

Prabhupāda: So unless there is something substantial... They are intelligent.

Mr. Rajda: Intelligent people.

Prabhupāda: Why they should accept this? And this is one man's attempt.

Mr. Rajda: It has got to be institutionalized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not make that? This political change, this political situation change, it will go on. Today you are powerful. Tomorrow I am powerful. That does not make any difference. Indira Gandhi was so powerful. In one day everything finished. So it may be finished, my position. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. They do not know, behind these all activities there is a person who can do anything He likes. So what about to know about Him? So these things are there in India. The knowledge is not secret. It is open. So without distorting it, without breaking it and spoiling it, why not give it as it is for the benefit of the whole humanity? You are young man. You can think over.

Indian (1): With a commission.

Prabhupāda: But...

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want. So if we people cooperate... We have got our program already. The present problem is that they are being attracted with this artha-rasa. There are four kinds of rasa, catur-rasa: dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa. So somebody is tasting dharmārtha, ritualistic ceremonies. Somebody is economic development in the cities, artha. Somebody is attracted, sense enjoyment, sex. And somebody, very pure, mokṣa-rasa. Catur-rasa. So in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness all the four rasas are there. Simply we have to present. So that is possible by the bhakti-rasa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanam... (SB 7.5.23). So we have to begin. The villagers must come, sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and give them prasādam. If you can bring them, so far money is concerned for giving prasādam, that we shall arrange. Then, gradually, let them be engaged in spinning all their necessities of life, in plowing, in protection of the cows. They get some... We have done it already in foreign countries—enough milk, enough vegetables, enough food grains. They're so happy. They're so happy.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They remain blind, yes. They like to remain blind. Their leaders are blind, and the followers want to remain blind. This is māyā. Unless there is training... This is instruction, ādau gurvāśrayam. If he doesn't understand the aim of life... It is meant for the most fortunate. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhram..., kona bhāgyavān jīva. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). But still, as far as possible, we shall take opportunity to try to convince him. Just see. This man is with us for the last six months. He is not ready to sacrifice his hair.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some dead stool.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some lump of stool on the head. Even that, he won't give up.

Prabhupāda: No, what is the value of this hair? But it cannot be... He has got some conviction, "I am not ready still for give up this hair." Did he not say like that? What he'll do? He'll be forced to give up his hair and the body on which it has grown. Still, he'll not do. Obstinate dogs. This is their position. They are not human being. Mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These are the terms. They apply. One thing I... Take your note. You can write one letter which will be presented to Shriman Narayan when Gopāla Kṛṣṇa goes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll take dictation. I'll get my pad. (break)

Page Title:Unless there is... (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:15 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=53, Let=0
No. of Quotes:53