University (Conversations 1976)

Vṛṣākapi: ...Flemings, Prabhupāda. You are a professor?

Professor Flemings: Well, I'm retired.

Vṛṣākapi: Retired professor? From what school?

Professor Flemings: University of Maryland.

Vṛṣākapi: The University of Maryland. What was your subject?

Professor Flemings: Modern poetry and theater.

Vṛṣākapi: Oh, very nice, very nice. This is, ah, you are a physicist?

Carl Warentz: That's correct.

Vṛṣākapi: And your name is?

Carl Warentz: Carl Warentz.

Vṛṣākapi: Carl Warentz, Prabhupāda, he's from Catholic University, physicist.

Prabhupāda: If you are uncomfortable you can sit on this cot...

Carl Warentz: No, that's okay, I'll sit like this.

Prabhupāda: You are welcome to sit down here.

Prabhupāda: You are welcome to sit down here.

Hari-śauri: You can sit on the couch.

Vṛṣākapi: This is Eugene Thoreau, Prabhupāda. He's an attorney in Washington, D.C. He's helped us very much opening up saṅkīrtana places. Very good.

Vipina: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is a professor from Catholic University, a physicist.

Vṛṣākapi: I told him already.

Vipina: Oh, did you?

Hari-śauri: Bring one or two chairs.

Prabhupāda: So how do you like our movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Vṛṣākapi: He said how do you like our movement?

Guest (1): Well, for myself I know nothing about it, that's why I'm here.

Guest (2): I like it, I've seen some very good people go into it, and I like it.

Woman guest: I've known two people who went into it, and I was at a meeting when you were on Q Street. And I've always liked it.

Eugene Thoreau: I have found it strangely appealing. I met it by accident at an airport, and one of the devotees gave me a flower, and I was struck by it. So I happen to be a lawyer and I offered my services, and I got a call just a few days after that.

Prabhupāda: Open the fan.

Prabhupāda: Open the fan.

Carl Warentz: I find it interesting.

Vṛṣākapi: You like this speed, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Should we turn this on for you?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āp? (Hindi, "You?")

Dr. Sharma: I'm professor at Berkeley, California. And I was Regents Professor at UCLA, University of California, Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. In Los Angeles we have our mandira, we have... You sometimes go to our temple?

Dr. Sharma: Yes, I go to the temple in Berkeley. I was at Berkeley about a week ago. I'm in London now, at the Royal Institute of Chemistry. I was born in Haridwar.

Prabhupāda: Haridwar. (laughs) Bhagavān ka deśa hari. Hari, Hari means the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and dvāra means the door, the doorway to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is a place in India, Haridwar, people go there for pilgrimage, very famous place.

Dr. Sharma: I grew up with yogis and sannyāsīs in Hrishikesh. My father is a recluse.

Prabhupāda: Oh, your father is also recluse.

Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, that is already explained. If you cannot convince them, then avoid them. What can be done? Instead of wasting time, you better avoid them. Upekṣā. Useless. Because godless persons means duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. So it is the duty of the preacher to enlighten them also, to take some risk. But if one is unable to take risk, he may avoid them.

Devotee (1): When we go to universities, so often we run into very educated people, so-called educated people. Of course, they see us, they think that we are simply sentimentalists, that actually we are not..., don't really have knowledge of the universe. I've explained to these people, it's not necessarily that they are sinful so much as they are just miseducated.

Prabhupāda: No, educated means they have knowledge, but real knowledge is taken away. He does not know God. Just like a man is rich, but he has no food. It is like that. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Therefore his knowledge is misused, duṣkṛtina. This knowledge, without any sense of God... Yes, come in. Sit down. (guests entering)

Vṛṣākapi: This is Mr. Davis, Mr. and Mrs. Davis, Prabhupāda. Their daughter is a devotee here, very good devotee.

Hari-śauri: There's chair if you'd like to sit in the chair. We can bring one more. Bring another chair.

Vipina: Used to be a senator.

Prabhupāda: Perfection of knowledge means to understand God. That is perfection of knowledge. Otherwise, it is imperfect knowledge. Therefore it is called Vedānta. Veda means knowledge.

Prabhupāda: The Tulasī dāsa's Rāmāyaṇa means Rāma-carita. It is not Rāmāyaṇa. Rāma-carita Manas. He was devotee of Lord Rāmacandra. So as he was thinking of Lord Rāmacandra, he has written. So he was a learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, he must have read Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. So all his translation is there on the basis of the śāstra, especially Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā. You'll find many parallel passages. But Gītā is the summary of all Vedic literature, and it is spoken by the Personality of Godhead. So if we fix up our attention on the Bhagavad-gītā, then you can get advantage of all other śāstras.

Vipina: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This is Mr. Kruzowsky. He's a philosophy teacher at the University of Maryland. He's very much interested in yoga and meditation. He invited us to speak earlier this year in his class, philosophy and religion.

Devotee (3): And this is Emmet Holman(?) who teaches philosophy at George Mason University. He's also very interested in Indian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: We had some talk with Professor Kotovsky in Moscow. Recently our representative went to Moscow for selling our book. They have highly appreciated our books. They have given in writing appreciation.

Mr. Boyd: Your Grace, in regards to the organization of the movement, as such, I somehow am led to believe that there's no coordination between, should I say, your office, in regards to the karmī world, and the different temples. Are each..., does each temple operate by itself, or each division operate by itself?

Prabhupāda: No, (indistinct). There is separate arrangement for management, but the idea and philosophy is the same. Ultimately, I am managing. I have my twenty secretaries, they are called GBC, they are assisting me to manage. Every GBC has got a certain number of temples to supervise, and ultimately, I supervise everything. Therefore I come occasionally, stay for few days to see how things are going on. I have got hundred temples, big, big temples, very nice. They have organized palatial buildings, but I cannot stay anywhere. (laughter)

Guest (2): That's what the church board said to me. They said, "You believe in Kṛṣṇa, we believe in God. Why do you go? What's superior?" I feel that your knowledge is superior.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?

Guest (2): Superior.

Prabhupāda: That's it. God is there, the dictionary is there. Sometimes pocket dictionary, sometimes big national encyclopedia dictionary. The Christians, they have no idea what is God. They believe in God, but if you ask them what is God, who is God, they cannot say. But we can say. That is the difference.

Woman guest (2): It is not as good.

Prabhupāda: So if you want more knowledge about God, then you must come to Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): That's how I believe.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Common sense. And we are practically experiencing. When the child has grown to become a young man, the mother does not cry, "Oh, my child is gone." She knows, she knows that "Here is my child. Simply he has changed his body." So this is a fact, that we are changing bodies but we are eternal. This is the conclusion. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So unless one is properly educated, where is the talk of advancing? So this is the beginning of spiritual education, to understand that the living entity is eternal and the body is changing. And then next question will be that if the body is changing, then this body will be changed, so after my death what kind of body I am going to accept? That is education. That is education. And if I remain blind, I do not care, and next life I become a dog, then what is the value of my present education? In spite of all education, next life I am going to become a dog or tree, then what is the value of my education? That education is not. Throughout the whole world perhaps we are giving this education. Throughout the whole world, find out any institution or university where this education is given. No. Simply big, big talks. And you talk something nonsense and take laureate, Nobel Laureate. That's all. It is going on. Somebody is talking nonsense that life is produced from matter, from chemicals, and if we challenge, "All right, combine some matter in egg form and bring life," that rascal will say, "No, it will take millions of years." And if the bird is giving life in five days, why you are taking doctorate title? Give the chicken doctorate title. The rascals are simply bluffing the people. This is going on in the name of education. Can anyone produce life by a combination of chemicals? And these rascals are advertising. We challenge, "All right, not very big thing. Egg, you can see there is some white substance and yellow substance, and you are very big scientist, you find out what are the chemicals and combine it and put it under legs of the chicken or in the incubator and bring life. Otherwise, why you are talking nonsense and cheating people?" Not only cheating people, people are becoming godless. Everything is science. And the science is this, cheating, that life can be produced by chemicals.

Prabhupāda: By nature it is very important movement. Therefore those who are intelligent, they are taking serious interest. We have got so many books. Perhaps you have seen. They are being accepted by the learned circle all over the world. University, colleges, professors, they are reading our books, placing standing order, and we have got relationship, especially with educated circle. They are trying to understand the importance of this movement.

Janice Johnson: I don't quite understand that in terms of my question about wearing street clothes and wigs instead of saffron robes and chanting and so forth.

Hari-śauri: She's pointing out that in recent years we've changed our dressing style while we're on the street selling books.

Prabhupāda: Dress? Dress is not important. Practically, as sannyāsī, brahmacārī, we dress with saffron cloth, but sometimes you do not like, but we have to do business with you; therefore we change. What can be done? "Necessity has no law."

Janice Johnson: I'm also interested in... You all have moved your school out of Texas. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Gurukula school, yes.

Janice Johnson: Why was that done?

Prabhupāda: Why? Gurukula school? We are training children from the very beginning of life to understand spiritual importance of life.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Research means that it is not known; you are trying to find out. But our, Kṛṣṇa's position is not. It is already known.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And another aspect of the Institute at the beginning phase is that Your Divine Grace also instructed a few days ago that we also get some, try to give some lectures to colleges. We can present as members from the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the higher learning section of ISKCON. That can also be part of the... So we can go to colleges and universities. We don't have to go every month or so, but maybe once a month or twice a month.

Prabhupāda: Whenever there is opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but we can represent from...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Bhaktivedanta Institute. If we do that, then people will also respect, those in the academic circle, that we are representing ISKCON from academic aspect. We have our title that "From Bhaktivedanta Institute, such and such person is going to speak on such and such topic."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That you make thing. That you will make from among yourselves.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In this college program, when we went last time to Florida, Gainesville, Amarendra, our president of Gainesville temple...

Prabhupāda: He has written. It was encouraging.

Hari-śauri: Balavanta was reporting about the TV that he did at the university in Gainesville.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually he wanted to make engagements in colleges, and he wanted to participate, going to colleges, talk, and make engagements.

Prabhupāda: So go. Do this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And he said we can come once in a while and give lectures.

Prabhupāda: That kind of engagement is very nice.

Rūpānuga: We learned there that they wanted some book to take home and study the situation. So we told them... We told them we were working on book.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Rūpānuga: So the book will be very helpful, for propaganda when we meet with these people.

Prabhupāda: So finish this book as soon as possible.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheating. There is also a big man in Bombay who is working on this line. He's a member of this International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life. Now they call... In fact, they use a Sanskrit word for this life coming from chemicals, they call jīvana particles of life. So they are also catching this idea that life is nothing but molecules. So along with this article, they are also writing from Bombay. So actually it is worldwide, all over, this concept. In India I think a little more interesting to give seminars along these lines. In India in the universities, the reaction of the... My feeling is that it will be different.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So do it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like that Dr. Sharma, who came yesterday, he's very much along our thought.

Prabhupāda: Who wrote the book?

Rūpānuga: No, no, an Indian gentleman. He has several degrees in science area, and he has an important post.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Sharma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Who came yesterday. Sanskrit, he knows Sanskrit well? From Hardwar?

Prabhupāda: Oh. So why don't you take him?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, he's very willing to help anything along these lines. But he told me that once we have this Bhaktivedanta Institute and we have this done, he told us that he can find some means by which we can get some grant from the government. There are several funding agencies, and he's one of the important men for giving grants, this National Institute of Health, and he has several connections with the top rank...

Prabhupāda: Authorities. So keep connection with him.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he even wants to write some articles along these lines.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is favorable, keep in touch.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Let their men come and talk with our men in a public meeting. Then people will understand what is the difference.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have a catalog, Transcendental Meditation University, it's very well done, nice colors and anything, first class. They spend a lot of money and a lot of thoughts how to bring, how to attract the students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says their University's just closed down.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, the one at Iowa?

Hari-śauri: No, the one in Majorca, in Spain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the headquarters, Iowa, the main University. We saw the catalog. It contains everything, all sciences.

Hari-śauri: This article explains that when he first appeared in public, he presented himself as a Hindu representative of Śaṅkarācārya's cult, but then later on he concocted this Transcendental Meditation, and then he presented it as a science so that he could get government grants to teach it in schools and things like this.

Rādhāvallabha: They have another guru here, Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh.

Prabhupāda: He has also come?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You rascal, he's another rascal. And one who believes in it, he's also a rascal.

Hari-śauri: I was reading the other day that at one university they started a course where they take the students through a course of death. They study death and then they try to get them to...

Prabhupāda: If it was possible to keep them by medicine, then no rich men would have died. You have got sufficient means to pay for medicine, and he would have kept his relatives, son alive. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said. It is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: They are very hopeful that modern medicine can keep them...

Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.

Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called..., what is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. (laughter) So he's going, he's... (laughter). This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: First class.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...of the human society. But actually it's one body, one entity already, simply that with different activities that we have to perform. The example is given, mukhe bāhūru pāda-ja: That there is the head; there's the arms; there's the belly, the abdomen; and then there is the legs. And all of them are part of the same body. So you might say that the legs are removed from the head, or that the head is removed from the stomach, but actually it's all one body and it works together. But the head gives direction to the whole body, how to act properly, so that the benefit is there to be derived. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is creating a class of brāhmaṇas, or heads of human society, who can give direction to the whole sphere of human activities so that they can become successful in human life. So in reality, we're not trying to create farmers, we're trying to create brāhmaṇas. But our farming communities are, so to speak, an example, an ideal example how human society can live: some people in the capacity of preachers, some people in the capacity of farmers, how so many activities can go on—various occupations—but all of them can be God-centered. So in reality, these people, they're farmers, they're out there on their tractor, they can jump off their tractor at any moment and preach the highest philosophy, because actually they're brāhmaṇas. They (are the) intelligent class of men. So it's one entity. The basic principle is that modern society is neglecting to train up—especially young men, you can see that in spite of so many universities throughout the world—these young men are being trained up how to become women-hunters and debauches. Going to the bars, going to the gambling houses, and they are supposed to be educated people. So real education is how to train up one to have ideal character, to become a brāhmaṇa.

Guest (1): Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Our men's productive. There must be food production, otherwise how the society will live. That is also a requirement. Good direction required, good government required, good production required, and good worker required. You can explain that there is no understanding of spiritual life. That they are missing the opportunity of human life.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence. So actually human life is meant for purifying our existential condition so that we may not be subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease. That they are missing. They do not know, neither there is any education, nor university. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to educate people on that line. It is not a sentimental religious system, it is an educational system. How one can transfer himself to eternal blissful life. Satsvarūpa is there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let him come in. When you have come?

Satsvarūpa: A few hours ago.

Prabhupāda: So, everything's all right?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So often you come to the temple?

Mr. Kallman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hm. So? (break)

Devotee (5): Two hundreds places, universities, schools, government institutions, big ministers, temple managements for all,...

Prabhupāda: They have given all orders?

Devotee (5): Yes, most of them gave orders to our... Even unlike... Some like Unites States some place, they would order all seventeen Caitanya-caritāmṛtas, and all the volumes of Bhāgavatam out and place an order for the rest to come, plus other books. And we lowered the price to about 45 rupees which was, which was right where they can afford to pay for the volumes (indistinct) take them.

Prabhupāda: What is the usual price?

Devotee (5): $7.95 which would be like too many, eighty rupees or something like that. It would be very expensive for India for one volume.

Prabhupāda: So you have reduced the price?

Devotee (5): To forty-five rupees. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa made it very, very reasonable for them that they can partake.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are taking the book. That is wanted. We don't want much profit.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is the idea of my Guru Mahārāja, a Gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. We don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the universities, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers, I know that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. In India?

Rāmeśvara: Especially in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In America.

Prabhupāda: That to pass the examination by prostitution. Whatever nonsense they may write, that's all right. This is Central Park still?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Central Park West, it's called.

Prabhupāda: This is not education. Everything is killing. Therefore we are supposed to deal with all madmen. They are thinking that they are constructing such big, big buildings, they are the most exalted persons, but we take them as mad.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Eighty. Eight zero.

Interviewer: Translations of the Vedic scriptures.

Bali-mardana: And commentaries.

Interviewer: Translation and commentaries.

Prabhupāda: And all world scholars, professors, universities, they are receiving so nicely.

Bali-mardana: We have standing orders for all of Prabhupāda's books that he has now and in the future, all over the world in all the leading universities and the professors are using them as texts. We have hundreds of letters.

Prabhupāda: You can see some of the lists.

Interviewer: What I've heard, what I've heard some Hindu professors say is that Hinduism is such a complex and profound religion and that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness members are very superficial about it. They simply go through these disciplines and really don't involve themselves in the... They take a superficial version of Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: That may be Hindu religion. But we do not belong to any religion. That may be true for the Hindu religion what the professor has said, but we do not identify with any religion. We are different from any religious system.

Interviewer: But the scriptures are the same, the Vedic scriptures are Hindu scriptures.

Prabhupāda: No, Hindu religion... Of course, the scripture is the Vedic principle, but the word is not Vedic. This word Hindu is not Vedic word.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is happiness. Bhagavad-gītā points out what is your distress. Can anyone say what is the actual distress? They do not know it. Distress they are taking as usual part of life. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is philosophy, to find out what is distress. This is directly said by Kṛṣṇa, that these are distresses, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, to become old and to become diseased. But they do not know it. Not only they, everyone, all over the world, they take it as part of life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. When a man becomes diseased, when a man becomes old, or when a man dies, they take it it is usual. They have been accustomed to these distresses so much that they do not take it as distress. So this is their ignorance. This is their ignorance. They do not know what is distress and they are struggling for moving the distress. Just like this independence. They do not know what is meaning of independence. Real independence is when you are free from these four kinds of distress. Does it mean that observing this kind of independence is real independence? It is simply fictitious. If you are not free from the laws of nature, nature will enforce you to die. Then where is your independence? Nobody wants to die, so why he's enforced to die? Nobody wants to become old man. Why he's enforced to become old man? But they have no brain to understand what is independence, what is happiness. They have taken distress as happiness. So that is due to lack of knowledge. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to elevate a person to the real standard of knowledge. Without knowledge a madman can say anything. A child can speak all nonsense. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside. The problem that "I do not want to die, but I'll be enforced to die," so what is the advancement in this connection? They might have, so big, big scientists, they have discovered many, many things, but where is that thing that "Take a pill and you'll never die. Take a pill, you'll never become diseased"? They can offer me... I had some abdominal pain, so they have given me dozens of medicine. But still they are not sure whether the pain will be cured. This is their science. So in this way things are going on, in ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

So this is the civilization of the asuras, and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa or without any knowledge of the Kṛṣṇa's instruction, people are grouped as duṣkṛtina, miscreants; mūḍhas, rascals; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say that "So many people, they are educated highly in the university, how they can be taken as miscreants, rascals and lowest of the mankind?" the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They have got knowledge, so-called knowledge, but they are lacking in real knowledge. Knowledge means to get out of distress. That is knowledge. But the real distress remains as it is. They cannot avoid death, they cannot avoid birth, they cannot avoid old age. And still they are claiming they are making progress in happiness. So that is called illusion.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: They invite some invitation. They have had a big international religious conference in Millford a few weeks back, and all the professors, universities and big, big shark(?) have got... And I understand...

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhas.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: (laughs) Mūḍhas, yes. So I understand... Some of the friends said it was a big feast and all that, but there was nothing, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They never talk about the Lord. They were simply arguing each other, "I think so." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: This is their business.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: Big, big professor from the university, from Glasgow, so many professors. Big pamphlet came to me. They all sent to... They sent it to this place here. I don't know from where they get the address or the name all that, and they sent, many, many of these new societies. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Keep our standard. Then everyone will give assistance.

Kṣīrodakaśāyī: We got many times, many visitors here. One time that church come here to see how things are. Chinese people came, Englishmen. One of the lady, not very far from here, she came one morning, said "My brother is in the hospital, and he is very sick. I know you are a pious people. Can you pray for him?" And "You pray the Lord. You come here. Lord is here." And...

Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Read what he....

Bhagavān: This is another appreciation here. This is from a doctor in the University of Neuchatel. It's in Switzerland. He's a Swiss doctor.

Pṛthu-putra: (translating) "The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most known under the name of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. The Sanskrit word Purāṇa means 'ancient, old work.' It is a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyasadeva, its author, from which we also learn about the Mahabharata. From a general way, but particularly the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Purāṇa is a true encyclopedia containing all the aspects of the life of spirit. We have to see that this great work is containing all the predictions, this, of realizing in every detail. Then it is very important to point out that the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam under its poetic form is a very actual by the subject which it's treating about. The truth is one and universal, and the tradition of this work is always valuable. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an essential development of the Bhagavad-gītā. It's talking about the questions metaphysical, philosophical, religious, psychologic, political and social. The wonderful tradition of Swami Prabhupāda is inspired from the same principles that the one who guided him in his translation of the Bhagavad-gītā. Every Sanskrit verse is written in Latin characters and then a literary version. The commentary, which is referring always from the Veda, Upaniṣad, and other texts, is allowing the reader to make spiritual progress. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is a precious work and will be revealed for a lot of people from the Western. And there is a very urgent need to spread this message throughout the world."

Jayatīrtha: Ah! It's a very good decision.

Bhagavān: Doctor of letters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: Many scholars are appreciating more and more. And on the University of Edmonton, in Alberta, Canada, Dr. Radhakrishna, he was a linguist, professor of linguistics, he's a very pious man, and he is writing a book with some other professor in the Religion department on the comparative study of bhakti in the Indian tradition and the Hebrew tradition. And he's using your books as his only source for the Indian tradition. So he ordered not only one set of all the books, but two sets of all your books. Three sets actually. He ordered one set of Bhāgavatams for his own personal library, then he ordered two sets for the University library, one for the reference section and one for the general section. So he ordered three sets. And when his book comes out, in the back they have a bibliography section, references, he will give reference to all your books. He's writing..., he was writing this book about bhakti, and he said "What is a good definition of bhakti for the Indian tradition?" So I showed him Nectar of Devotion, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). He said that is very good, and he wrote it down and put it in his book.

Prabhupāda: Till now, they took bhakti as a matter of sentiment. Religious science they did not know, all over the world.

Bhūgarbha: He said he's trying to show that by studying bhakti in Indian tradition and also in Hebrew tradition, he's...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti is not achieved by studying. Bhakti stage is achieved by practice. That is the special significance of our institution, that we are engaging our men in practicing. Therefore they are getting knowledge—not by reading.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: But he did not say no. He wanted to do conveniently. Then I thought, it will not be... (coughs). "When he will return, he'll do it." That is not possible.

Bhūgarbha: He gave me some of his books that he wrote, he gave me some to read. And actually the English in your books is much better than his books, so better he's not editing. It's coming out better.

Prabhupāda: No, he's not a good English scholar.

Bhūgarbha: Actually, he speaks perfect French also. And he got his Ph.D. from the University of Paris.

Prabhupāda: Paris or Dutch as well.

Bhūgarbha: He's been every place. He went to, in Paris he got in the Sorbonne and also in Pondicherry they have one French Institute, and there he got his Ph.D. And also in Holland there is one very important... So by his letters we can, many people will take our books.

Prabhupāda: No, he's undoubtedly very great Sanskrit scholar. He had written some book how to make the sacred thread, like that. How many knots should be there, how many... (laughter) Smārta brāhmaṇa.

Bhūgarbha: Now he's written another book to show how his line is changing. His latest book was about the five chapters of the Dasama-skanda, which is the rasa-līlā. That is his book now.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: They gave me order, I dispatched by post, and if the acknowledgement received, I submitted my bill, they paid.

Bhūgarbha: We're going to find the list of which universities you sent to, because we only found..., not that many.

Prabhupāda: That will be a waste.(?) (laughter) So many things I did not keep record.

Bhūgarbha: Even in Poona, they had, the Deccan College in Poona. They also had, we sent to them also. They also ordered balance.

Prabhupāda: In Bombay also I supplied to so many colleges. And the Public Library.

Bhūgarbha: That Royal Asiatic Society.

Prabhupāda: Āccha.

Bhūgarbha: In Bombay they purchase all the books. We had to do a little negotiation with them, but they purchased everything. Then the Calcutta Asiatic Society, they wrote us a letter, they said that "These books are the best," the letter came like that, "but that we have no funds to purchase, so can you please send us free of charge."

Prabhupāda: They have no funds? Asiatic?

Bhūgarbha: They say like that.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. Nowadays people are not interested in cultural societies. They are simply for belly. How to earn money, that's all. Śūdra mentality. The brāhmaṇa mentality is gone. In America also. People are not joining cultural classes of philosophy. Hayagrīva said that he has no job because nobody's taking English as literary study. Nobody's interested. They are taking to technology.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Later on, they became Buddhist, but originally they were Vaiṣṇava.

Devotee (1): So they will not make some objection if they think we are thinking we have come to preach Hinduism in a Buddhist country?

Prabhupāda: It is not... Don't establish Deity. Talk on philosophy.

Devotee (1): "God is the supreme controller."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We accept Lord Buddha as incarnation of God. Show in our books that we have got all respect for Buddha. We do not disrespect Lord Buddha, neither go against him. Anyway, if we get one house to live and a supporter, a big supporter, then our position will be secure. And if our cause is honest, then nobody can check.

Devotee (1): He has said that first I should come and speak to the Prime Minister and then speak at the University, and then see the reaction, and then we can go to see the king and say that this has been the reaction at the universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it organizedly. They understand French language?

Devotee (1): Yes, English and French. They are very close to Vietnam.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Take this opportunity.

Devotee (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: There's no question of starvation for want of money. Anywhere sit down and do something palatable, and people will purchase. So your livelihood will go on. Pakorā, kacuri, jalebi, anything. You make some palatable, people are fond of eating some palatable things. That is their hobby. In Allahabad, there was a brāhmaṇa. I had my business, and he was neighborhood, he was living. So in the morning, the husband and wife would go to take bath in the Ganges. They would very nicely take bath, and while coming they will purchase some ingredients and then come home. The husband will perform pūjā, etc., and the wife will prepare many nice preparations-baḍā, pakori, puskar (?), this, that. Then he'll take his meals, rest awhile, and in the evening he will sit down, he was sitting just in front of my shop, about four or five o'clock. All the preparations his wife had made whole day, and the small shop. And the university students will come up to night, ten o'clock, he'll finish. Nothing will remain. Everything will be... And he'll make at least ten rupees profit, minimum. In those days, 1925, in those days ten rupees means nowadays at least fifty rupees. So, and living very happy. Living humbly as a brāhmaṇa, he was having his pūjā, going to the Ganges, taking bath, husband and wife, in the morning, and the wife's business is to prepare and his business was to sell. So they'll make at least ten, fifteen rupees profit daily, very prosperous. Living peacefully, husband and wife. There are many such families. The... If wife is very good, then his home is very nice. They cannot be unhappy at any circumstances. Dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ.(?) Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. When there is full agreement between husband and wife, cooperation, then the goddess of fortune comes there without application. You haven't got to ask goddess of fortune, "Please come and help me." She'll come automatically. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Seems they're always carrying little snippets of information about what we're doing. Before there was a report about the restaurants, and here there's two reports about..., one about the Jagannātha festival in New York and one about the proposed Vedic university in Kurukṣetra. These were on consecutive days. The one about New York, it says, "Washington, July the 19th." That's where it's reported from. It says, "New York saw on Sunday an unusual spectacle of three brightly colored chariots being pulled along the city's prestigious Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, a distance of about five kilometers, by members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa group. The rathas, built in Orissan style with giant wooden wheels, attracted large crowds of spectators all along the route. It was a novel experience for the New Yorkers. Many resident Indians who are not members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement enthusiastically gave a hand in the pulling. The Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were celebrating the feast of Jagannātha in the traditional Indian way. The police and the city administration readily cooperated. In a city that is coming to be known for its tolerance of diverse cultures, chariot processions promise to be an annual event. While a few citizens booed and some altercations were reported, the spectacle was well received by the New Yorkers. 'I think it is great,' the New York Times quoted a man as saying. The person, who identified himself as a visitor to New York and was not a Hare Kṛṣṇa fan, referring to the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, added, 'They are all happy and dancing, and that's what life's all about.' Later a vegetarian feast was served to the admirers."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: It's very good. There's just a real short one about the university in Kurukṣetra. It says, "Vedic Varsity for Kurukṣetra Soon." "The first Vedic university will come up soon at Kurukṣetra and will be affiliated to V.M. Cakravarty University. The proposed university is being set up by the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, and will cost rupees two crore. Most of the funds will be provided by Mr. Alfred Ford, the nephew of the auto magnate Henry Ford. Mr. Ford, on becoming a disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of ISKCON, changed his name to Ambarīṣa dāsa. The Vedic university will offer courses leading to bhakti-śāstrī and sarvabhauma."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...new devotees joining?

Bhagavān: Yes. The last month we have about five new devotees.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhagavān: Including children, there are about hundred ninety altogether.

Prabhupāda: Hundred-ninety, two hundred.

Bhagavān: Almost two hundred. One family has joined yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Family?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Husband, wife and children?

Bhagavān: Two children. He's a builder and plumber.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you'll get help for construction work. He can teach others also. Live peacefully, happily, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: Professor's upstairs putting on a dhotī. He brought his daughter. Professor Chenique teaches a course in Bhagavad-gītā at the University, and he is also doing translations of Śaṅkarācārya and teaches for the Federation of Yoga. He considers himself a Christian Advaitist. (break) ...some questions regarding the publications in French. For example, on the front of Back to Godhead magazine, in the English edition and other language editions, they have kept the phrase "Godhead is light, darkness is nescience. Where there is Godhead there is no nescience." Now in French it is difficult to translate that. There is no word Godhead. And if you say "God is light," in French it sounds very impersonalist. In French, Dieux est lumiere, "God is light." Many groups say like that. We use the word Godhead, and that distinguishes us from the other groups. Now is the phrase very important, and do you want us to keep it on the front of the magazine? It should be there.

Prabhupāda: There is a little difference between God and Godhead.

Yogeśvara: So when we will have to try to find...

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. Īśvara, more or less everyone, but īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, that is Godhead. The Māyāvādīs, they do not distinguish between one īśvara to another īśvara. That may be on the ordinary level, but there is parama īśvara.

Yogeśvara: One possibility would be to say God the Supreme Person is light. That we can translate.

Prabhupāda: God means Supreme Person. But these advaitavādī, Māyāvādīs, they have made God everyone. God means Supreme Person, that is the dictionary word. "Supreme Being." That is the dictionary meaning. God does not mean ordinary, but they have made ordinary, anyone God. "I am God, you are God, he is God." Then what is meaning of God?

Yogeśvara: Therefore we say Godhead.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: We have no Sanskrit scholars in French yet, no.

Prabhupāda: Not only scholar, not only scholar, he must be a realized soul. Simply scholars will not help, simply scholarship will not help. There are many Sanskrit scholars in India. There are many Sanskrit scholars, original Sanskrit scholars in India, they cannot understand Bhāgavata.

Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique's point is that we are seeking to introduce these books on a university level, and there's a certain standard that must be met.

Prabhupāda: What is that standard?

Bhūgarbha: He's just saying that the style of French, he feels that it's too many words.

Prabhupāda: French, he must be French, expert in language, at the same time, a devotee. Then he can explain. Otherwise no. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's secretary, Svarūpa Dāmodara, he asked that brāhmaṇa, bhāgavata paḍā giyā bhāgavata sthāne:(?) "Go and study Bhāgavata from bhāgavata." I have discussed this in the beginning of translation of Bhāgavata. So Bhāgavata, that is the limit of education. Vidyā bhāgavata vadhiḥ.(?) One has to study and take education up to Bhāgavatam. That is, if one understands Bhāgavatam, he's finished his education.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, from qualification point of view, they are not learned, educated in university, nor they have got any spiritual assets, born brāhmaṇa family, nothing. Simply money. We also go and flatter them to get some money (laughs). So this is Kali-yuga. Vittam eva. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore people are after, so much after money. Vittam eva, hmm? Read that?

Pradyumna:

vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ

janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ

dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ

kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed." So he had no other alternative, he immediately resigned, and on some plea like, "My heart is palpitating," so in this way he left the court and then he was never allowed again. And when his friends asked him that why you are doing this? He said, "What can I do? I have got at least ten thousand rupees expenditure per month and I get only four thousand." That was his... He was very able lawyer. By private practice he was earning more, but this practice... And nowadays it has come to, at least in India, anywhere you go, and bribe and you get a favorable decision. (guests arrive) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we shall be sitting inside or here?

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Without hearing the good advice of Kṛṣṇa, he does it at his risk. That's all. He'll be arrested, he'll be put into jail. That's all. He'll suffer. But Kṛṣṇa gives him good counsel, "Don't do it." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). He's situated in every heart, but if you persist to do something, He gives, "All right, do at your risk. What can I do?" You suffer. That independence you have got. Just like State. State does not advise anyone that "You become a criminal." But when he becomes criminal, then put into jail. State says, "Everyone go to the university, be educated," but if you make your choice, go to the prison house, you can make your choice. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says everyone, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you make your choice to go to hell, what can He do?

Mrs. Sahani: This means we have the freedom.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you he got little freedom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, "You do it." He does not force. He can force you. He's all-powerful. But He does not force. He gives you the chance, "Do it, you'll be happy." If you don't do it, that is your choice. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Eh? Find out this verse. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. Kṛṣṇa gives Arjuna the freedom, "Now I have given you all instruction, now make your choice." Yathecchasi tathā kuru. "Whatever you like, you do." What is the difficulty? Could not find? Ask somebody else.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And philosophy class, closed. Here I think also. Nobody... They think "What is the use of speculation?"

Indian: At Kurukṣetra, one Sanskrit university they are planning.

Prabhupāda: Vedic university. So that is our plan. We have asked government to give us land.

Vāsughoṣa: We had a big article in the Times of India about it.

Prabhupāda: Provided government gives us land. (break) ...in Bombay. (Hindi) Palm trees, within the palm trees, such buildings will not have this advantage. I think in this quarter our, this land is the best. This Juhu and Birawallah(?) Scheme, this land is the best. Twenty-thousand square yards full of palm trees, and we have made this garden. This advantage is not available by everyone. They divided the property, this side five lakhs and the vacant side nine lakhs. Fourteen. So anyway, we took both the sides. Taking this side, five lakhs, now this one building is worth five lakhs. There are six buildings. Very high. And we have got six buildings.

Dr. Patel: I put up a foundation of my new house here, it has cost me only foundation sixty thousand. Only twenty-one square feet. Twenty-one hundred square feet. Foundation has cost (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No, it is very costly. (Hindi) So let us go down. (the remainder, meeting with Mrs. Birla and friends, is in Hindi with a little English.) (end)

Room Conversation -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: How people are receiving this movement all over the world, even (indistinct) to the communist (indistinct). They are trying to kill God, and we are putting God (indistinct) educated families.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Jayapatāka: Show that other article that... This is the actual article against us.

Acyutānanda: Also this came in the Statesman, the pro-vice-chancellor of Calcutta University came to Māyāpur, he wants to affiliate Māyāpur with the Calcutta University. This came in the Statesman. And a few days ago the vice-chancellor...

Prabhupāda: It is not yet finished?

Jayapatāka: That's the old picture.

Acyutānanda: No, this picture's six months old.

Jayapatāka: It's more than half.

Acyutānanda: It's more than that.

Jayapatāka: (indistinct) We've received ten lakhs so far. The building total was twenty lakhs.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Jayapatāka: (indistinct) ...building, six times longer than our building. Two hundred rooms. (break)

Acyutānanda: This is the first article. That was against us. In the same paper. Then these two came. But it was very good. Many people came to the temple. They said, "Your society is cleared." Many Bengalis, so many came, "We have read, 'Your society is cleared.' "

Prabhupāda: Now (indistinct) cleared. (indistinct) (end)

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: When I was traveling in Burdwan, there we saw the big palace of Maharaja of Burdwan

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: Gigantic. He has given that to the university. Then we did a kīrtana at his... He has one temple of Rādhā-kānta. That's present ācārya is about a twenty-two-year old boy. He's in the sampradāya of Nimbārka Svāmī. So he doesn't know anything about, very much about spiritual life, although he is following the tradition. That's such a vast... That building is vast. I can't explain to you how big that is. It's at least five times bigger than our building in all ways, and... It is a huge compound. He has got much land in the name of the Deity. So he's becoming a member because he wants to read your books to understand about Lord Caitanya and spiritual...

Prabhupāda: Now for making member you should be very clear so that no misunderstanding takes place. Books, we shall give five books.

Gargamuni: Yes, that...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: On my form I have already printed we give five books.

Prabhupāda: "When you finish, you return this; you take another. When you finish that..." In this way.

Gargamuni: What we've been doing with members in Calcutta, members who want more of the books, they sign the standing order and they pay us for the books.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Pradyumna: "Besides, they are planning to set up a Sanskrit university in Purī, the home of famed temples and one of the few spots in India blessed by Ādi Śaṅkara. Two devotees, Gurudāsa Swami and Abhirāma dāsa visited Bhuvaneśvara in April last to explore means to set up the university." Then in big heading, "Patnayak's interest in Kṛṣṇa cult."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is going to get us...

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Pradyumna: "They reportedly met also our deputy defense minister, J. B. Patnayak, who hails from Orissa. It is understood that Patnayak has asked the district magistrate of Purī to find land for ISKCON's Sanskrit university there. ISKCON is pursuing not only Kṛṣṇa, it has started taking interest in politics also. It has founded a political party in the United States called "In God We Trust" Party. It has already contested civic elections in Los Angeles and intends to put up candidates for the U.S. Congress." We didn't do anything in Los Angeles. Only in Georgia. All wrong, complete...

Prabhupāda: What is wrong there? In God We Trust, this party. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are making it sound as if it is a political party.

Hari-śauri: They say political with God's name.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not saying God at all. They're saying God..., we're using God as a front.

Prabhupāda: They may say. But we want to put forward a God's party also. Why not? Everyone is godless party. We must push forward a God's party. What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: It's not political.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?

Pradyumna: No. On the front page it says... Because he is doing a lot of educational... He has made all these universities and health centers and everything. So it says that he is doing good to the people. So for that reason they said, "We don't want to see him criticized."

Hari-śauri: They're supporting him.

Prabhupāda: So the case is already in the court?

Pradyumna: No, it is just a challenge. The Bangalore University, some people at Bangalore University want to investigate his things. And then Sai Baba sometimes, he won't submit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: He submits?

Pradyumna: They want to have him come and examine him, that, "Do it and let us see." But he won't admit to be examined.

Prabhupāda: That is his...

Hari-śauri: Some U.S. men, though, they gave a report that whilst they were talking to him he made different things appear and disappear. They wanted to examine him, and he wouldn't allow it. But during the course of the conversation he made several things appear and disappear. Like he produced this type of nut that comes from Nepal. It just appeared in his hand. And then he closed his hands and opened them up again and the nut, the same nut was there. But this time with some gold, a gold cross hanging from it.

Pradyumna: A Rudrākṣa. Some rare kind of Rudrākṣa. Then made it appear again with all gold, and then he gave it to the man.

Hari-śauri: And then he produced gold ring and stuff like this.

Prabhupāda: This is magic.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayapatākā: He doesn't write himself. He writes in old fashion. But he corrects for double-checking philosophy. Editing. And this Kiśora, he was a M.A. and he previously used to write. He was an honor student at Calcutta University, and he used to freelance write in Bengali. So his style is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Why not engage him in simply...

Jayapatākā: He is translating now our...

Gargamuni: That's all he does.

Jayapatākā: That and he greets the guests. He's also good at membership.

Prabhupāda: Gītār Gān has become popular.

Gargamuni: Yes. That name has become very popular. Everyone is asking, "Where is this Gītār Gān?"

Prabhupāda: So you can register the name so that others may not...

Jayapatākā: Yes, otherwise they'll cash in on it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can register it the name. Patron registration. Copyright registration.

Gargamuni: It says it in the book.

Jayapatākā: It says, but you should make sure it's registered.

Prabhupāda: That is your statement. But it must be legally protected.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Enclose this quote.

Maṇihāra: "ISKCON has generated many community farms like New Vrindaban, providing the ideal atmosphere of a busy, yet peaceful village, fully devoted to spiritual progress. Swami Prabhupāda has also established the first Kṛṣṇa conscious gurukula in the West, a primary school in Dallas, Texas, for one hundred boys and girls between the ages of five and fifteen. Soon after its success, many such gurukulas have sprung up all over the world. Aside from teaching reading, writing, mathematics, geography, etc., the gurukula teaches the child how to cultivate God consciousness. Once a year members of ISKCON journey to the Society's international headquarters at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, ninety miles north of Calcutta, and the birthplace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the site of a ten crore rupees international Vedic village comprised of community farming projects, high-class gurukula school, free medicinal facilities, and handloom weaving center. An institute of Vedic studies is proposed to be established at this site. Other major ISKCON centers in India are in Vṛndāvana, Bombay, and Kurukṣetra, the site of a three-crore rupee international Sanskrit university. This project will be sponsored by Alfred Ford, a nephew of Henry Ford. This will be the cultural..."

Prabhupāda: Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side. So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.

Maṇihāra: "This will be a cultural gateway of India for the people of the world. Hyderabad is the South Indian headquarters for ISKCON in India. The magnificent Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Madana-mohana temple at Nampally Station Road, inaugurated by Swami Prabhupāda, will serve as a center of the cultural, spiritual, educational and social activities given to uplift the lives of people here. According to Śrī Mahāṁśa Swami, the president of the Society here, the devotees will hold seminars in colleges, factories, business centers, universities, schools, etc., to teach the techniques of spiritualizing the day-to-day life. Deity worship accompanied by the constant chanting of the holy names will be a special feature at the center. Besides, there will be daily classes in Sanskrit, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam, and the Upaniṣads. There will be a Vedic library consisting of Swami Prabhupāda's books and various books on comparative study of religion. A cassette library will be a special feature here. Devotees will travel into towns and villages and do saṅkīrtana for the uplift of the masses. ISKCON Hyderabad is introducing for the first time in South India its major 600 acre community farming project, 40 kilometers from Hyderabad, to benefit about 20,000 villages. Besides regular free nutritional food distribution program, ISKCON is also planning to set up a model high-yielding 600-cow dairy farm, handloom centers, nature-cure hospital, and gurukula school project. Swami Prabhupāda's most substantial contribution, however, is to be found in his books, a veritable storehouse of knowledge and wisdom. He has written more than 50 books so far, explaining the principles of Kṛṣṇa or God consciousness in a logical, practical, and scientific way. Through his books people are understanding the eternal wisdom of the ancient Indian scriptures. That ISKCON has made a significant contribution to the intellectual, cultural, and spiritual life of contemporary man is obvious from the fact that people of all ages and..."

Prabhupāda: A very important article.

Gargamuni: A very good article.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it details everything. So you purchase some copies. We have to prepare...

Prabhupāda: So, wherefrom just now you are coming?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Well, we've just come from Eastern coast. We came down from Calcutta through Visakhapatnam and Vijayawada. We took some orders in Guntur. And before that...

Prabhupāda: Guntur there is university?

Pradyumna: Yes, there's a new one.

Prabhupāda: Guntur, our Tīrtha Mahārāja has got a branch there. Is it not? Gauḍīya Maṭha they have got branch?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: In Visakhapatnam.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another. In Guntur, yes.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: I didn't see.

Prabhupāda: Visakhapatnam, there is one of my Godbrothers, Purī Mahārāja. Did you go there?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: No. But we saw some books which they published and they had your picture in the front actually. Just on the inside page your picture was there.

Prabhupāda: In Guntur you received order from?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: The State Regional Library. It's the most prestigious library in Andhra Pradesh. They took a complete order for all the books.

Gargamuni: Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhāgavatam.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Standing order.

Room Conversation with Pandita from Tirupati and Government Minister -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Yes, standing order. And Visakhapatnam university also, standing order for all the books. We'll probably go back to Guntur again, and I think we'll make some more orders there next week. But it was Saturday and some of the colleges were closed, so we couldn't see the professors.

Prabhupāda: Keep your health nice, because Indian climate sometimes does not suit. Eat simple things. Fruits, vegetables. Don't be miser in the matter of... But don't eat voraciously. Eat sufficiently, nutritious.

Gargamuni: Yes. I have also told they should eat nice fruits and vegetable so they will keep healthy.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Vegetable, fruits, very innocent, little milk. That's all. Even if you don't eat these foodgrains, that is preferred. Better. Vegetable and fruits and milk, that is sufficient nutritious. There is no question of disease. But for our tongue taste we eat so many cooked food, but if we eat vegetables, boiled vegetables and fruits and milk, ah, it is sufficient. Ekādaśī. (laughter) Daily ekādaśī.

And these peanuts, a few grains. Not much. That is also nice. Cashew, peanut. Yes. So thank you very much. You are working so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. You become a guru. Actually you are doing the guru's work. "Here is a message from Kṛṣṇa. Please take it." Bas. Simple. Yāre dekha. And whomever you meet, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Either you speak personally or give him a book.

Paṇḍita: Now, this is my idea. That knowledge that I have must be utilized in this manner. It can be utilized in this manner. You are creating so many disciples. They are interested in learning Gītā and the philosophy and other things. Serious students who are interested in philosophy, who would like to go sit and...

Prabhupāda: You'll find hardly anyone interested in philosophy nowadays. They are interested in technology. In Western countries the universities are closing philosophical class. No student is coming. This is the position.

Paṇḍita: I came for philosophy, even in this age.

Prabhupāda: No, no, your case is different. But generally people they are losing interest in philosophy because they are becoming śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. They are after some job to get money. So they see that "What I shall get by learning philosophy? Let me learn technology. I'll get a good job and good money and enjoy life." This is...

Paṇḍita: That is general trend. Of course, I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In India also the same thing.

Paṇḍita: Yes, yes. I was working in Bombay as a stenographer in a private company. In 1964 I resigned my job after reading Vivekananda's works. I'll tell you about some of my own history. Afterwards I went and joined the... I went and stayed in Hrishikesh Shivananda āśrama for two months, and I wanted to study this philosophy, etc., in the originals. But at Shivananda āśrama it was not...

Prabhupāda: They have no idea.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And we are known the topmost publisher of religious and philosophical books in the world. And we are approved, our books are approved by the greatest learned scholars of all universities. Because they are seeing a new light. No hodgepodge philosophy. India also, wherever we are going. Now within how many days? Within a month.

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes, one month, in Uttar Pradesh...

Prabhupāda: He has got seventy standing orders. Our books are, say eighty. So eighty books, say, average five dollars. So eighty books, five dollars means...

Prabhaviṣṇu: Four hundred dollars.

Prabhupāda: Four hundred dollars. Such seventy orders. He has secured order in one month, seventy orders. In one place. Standing orders. "Whatever is published give us, and then others, when they will be published, send also." They have not seen even the books.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Four hundred dollars. Such seventy orders. He has secured order in one month, seventy orders. In one place. Standing orders. "Whatever is published give us, and then others, when they will be published, send also." They have not seen even the books.

Indian man: This is practical pracāra, giving books.

Prabhupāda: No librarian, no university, no scholar, no professor is refusing. As soon as we go, "Oh, yes, bring. We shall take." So I am bringing money from the foreign countries by my selling books, and they are criticizing me that I am C.I.A. Just see the fun. And there is nobody to give me protection.

Indian man: Not Lord giving protection? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, Lord, giving, giving. That I am confident. Because they are envious, "How Bhaktivedanta Swami is getting so much money? He's paying crores and crores. There must be some political..." As they are getting from Russia. But actually, I am selling. I am working night, writing these books, and these boys are helping me to sell it. I am getting enough money to spend it. What is my fault? For Kṛṣṇa's sake we have sacrificed everything, our life and everything and Kṛṣṇa is giving us money and we are spending it and they are criticizing in the Parliament. This is my misfortune. I don't take it as misfortune. Because asuras are always there. Even Kṛṣṇa's time.

Morning Walk Conversation About Bombay -- August 29, 1976, Delhi:

Girirāja: We're going to fix one of the rooms on the first floor with all of the furnishings and everything just as it will be when the building is complete. But there is still other work going on. So it couldn't be used for living, but it will look just like a finished room. And Acyutānanda Swami is doing very nicely. He attends maṅgala-ārati every morning, he gives class in the temple in the morning and in the evening. And we're having a lot of programs at Rotary clubs, Lion's Clubs, colleges and universities.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Girirāja: Mandiras. And distributing literature. Well, the final lift in the building will still take until December, and then so far as another lift for your present quarters...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why? There is no need of present quarter lift. No.

Girirāja: Okay. Anyway, the new lift is going according to their schedule which is much faster than their original schedule.

Prabhupāda: So on the whole it is coming nice.

Girirāja: Oh yes. There's a lot of enthusiasm for Kṛṣṇa consciousness in Bombay. Just due to this Janmāṣṭamī we made about 15 or 20 life patron members. They just keep coming. "I visited your festival," then they come back and arrange other programs for us and become patron members. And newspaper people also are starting to...

Prabhupāda: Giving some coverage.

Girirāja: ...good... The Free Press wants to make a two page feature with pictures all about our activities.

Prabhupāda: What about taking action against Blitz?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well he wrote to me but I didn't have time to discuss with you. Girirāja discussed with everyone and they feel that it's not worth it.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Krishna Modi: It is now decided that you will give us all the Indian...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also should we give you what Indian professors wrote? Like this "Dr. Mahesh Mehta at the University of (indistinct). Some of the Indian professors in America are very..." Indians in India and Indians abroad.

Krishna Modi: Indians, all Indians abroad. Abroad and also Communist countries if anybody. Give us any report. Russia, like that you should give us in a file, make a file. And one thing is this. Now second is that when we are...

Prabhupāda: This is a good book advertisement. (laughs) "Andhra government falls for Kṛṣṇa..."

Krishna Modi: (laughs) No, he has not written anything. It is only it seems that... What can be said about...

Prabhupāda: Whole government is supporting.

Krishna Modi: Supporting. His meaning is this, that this Congress government is also doing all these mischiefs, so that they will... (laughs)... That his main idea, and nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also victimized by this Kṛṣṇa cult.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in some respects I found them even lower than India. You'll be amazed... I visited all the leading libraries of Russia and Leningrad. Moscow University Library, all the big libraries. These libraries don't have any foreign exchange for ordering these books. They all want to order... They were begging me for free books. They said, "Why don't you give us a donation or exchange." They have a book exchange that if they give their books then we give our books. Each library gets such little foreign exchange allowance to buy books from abroad.

Prabhupāda: A taxi driver, he was asking some bhakshish.

Krishna Modi: In Russia.

Prabhupāda: And I was talking with Professor Katovsky. I asked him please call for a taxi. So he said, "Swamiji, it is Moscow." That means taxis are not available. Then he came down with me and from the gate he showed me, "You take this shortcut when you go to your hotel." He could not call a taxi. Taxis are not available. He said, "Oh, it is Moscow."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But even the taxi drivers are very corrupt because of the shortage of taxis in Russia. You have to stand in line for taxis.

Prabhupāda: Not taxi, bus.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even for taxis they have no taxi stands where you stand in line. So the taxi driver, he will park his car a little bit away.

Prabhupāda: In my opinion it is a poor country. I think poorer than India.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: One professor, Stillson Judah, he has written one book. After studying our movement five years he has written one, "Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counter-culture." "Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counter-culture." (Hindi)

Pradyumna: Doesn't have a copy here. It's published by Princeton University Press. In their religion... In their set of volumes on different religions.

Indian woman: Prasāda (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: I am going to Vṛndāvana tomorrow. (Hindi) I'll be three weeks there. (hindi) Still, it is Vṛndāvana. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. (Hindi) As He is worshipable, similarly, Vṛndāvana dhāma is also worshipable. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam ramya kācid upāsana vraja-vadhū-vargeṇā va kalpitā. Upāsana vraja-vadhū, the vraja, damsels of vrajabhūmi, the gopīs, as they worship the Lord, there is no comparison to that process of worship. Vraja-vadhū-vargeṇā. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvana.

Indian man (3): ...we are going there after Parliament session tomorrow. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: They spend so much money for the roadways, still it is not good.

Indian man (3): Draining is different levels arising water (indistinct) in excessive in quantity, and the natural drains are not efficient enough to take it out. I was told that...

Prabhupāda: There is no sufficient outlet.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Indian man (3): Well, this is God's work, Lord Kṛṣṇa's work. I am trying (indistinct) to cooperate with you because nobody can do.

Prabhupāda: No, you have done tremendous work.

Indian man (3): No, but which is very little considering the situation, the condition, problem (in the) country. I am at a lower level than your level than your work (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: The one encouraging thing in this movement is that our books are being very much appreciated. In all universities, foreign and Indian, libraries, professors, learned scholars.

Indian man (3): Yes, they'll branch out and... It's a great service.

Prabhupāda: We are selling books to the extent of sixty thousand dollars daily. That is our only hope, that we shall not be financially in difficulty. People are taking our books very nicely. People are accepting our literature.

Indian man (3): It is not that difficulties were not there (indistinct). I don't have the support, but I feel (indistinct) find that several places the demand for this for the acceptance of (indistinct) also not in the manner in which I had wanted. (indistinct) ...lakhs of people stand against (indistinct) religion and moral side. There should be a linking up of all those who want religion to remain and morality to also be there. Those forces have to be met by also organized force from the right kind of people (goes on giving his own opinions-indistinct) ...I hope you are not coming in your way.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Indian man (3): I remember that you had written yourself that there is something we can do together. Possibly this question, building and all that. (indistinct) It is good to have that building and that land, but even before that there is work to be done at the Kurukṣetra.

Prabhupāda: My point is that Kurukṣetra is the place where Bhagavad-gītā was spoken. So if we take the words of Bhagavad-gita as it is spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, then people will be benefitted. But if we do not take the words of Bhagavad-gītā, then moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12). That I believe. Find out this verse. Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: MRA also?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is banned now. So Blitz said, "And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg." So ISKCON is replying. ISKCON: "Blitz is trying to link us with banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg. We challenge Blitz to show any of our activity that is dangerous to the Indian society. Our only business is to follow Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is all we are asking others to do also. We're not engaged in any political activity either. So how can Blitz compare us to banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg?" So this is my reply to point two. "Point three. Blitz: ISKCON was founded in New York in July, 1966. ISKCON: Yes, ISKCON was registered in New York by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America at the advanced age of 70 to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was ordered so by his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha institutions in India, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western countries. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda strongly desired that the whole world accept Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings and therefore he ordered his most educated and sincere disciple, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in 1936 to spread these teachings to the Western world. Bhaktivedanta Swami started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā in 1936. When the late prime minister, Shri Lal Bahadur Sastri, saw Bhaktivedanta Swami's Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is doing valuable work, and his books are a significant contribution to the salvation of mankind.' Presently Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, a division of ISKCON has published over sixty books of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. These include Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 25 volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, 17 volumes. These books have been acclaimed by both Indian and Western scholars. The books are being used by about three thousand universities all over the world, including Oxford, Cambridge, and Harvard universities. In India, in the last four months, close to four hundred institutes have placed standing orders on Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books."

Prabhupāda: Calcutta University purchased.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I said four hundred universities. I didn't... "Even Russian scholars have praised Bhaktivedanta Swami's books and placed orders. For your information, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is the leading seller of books of Vedic culture outside India."

Prabhupāda: Topmost publisher of religious and philosophical... In the world. That is admitted.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I said outside India because Gītā Press... It becomes disputable in India. So this was my reply to point three. "Point four. Blitz: Most work in India is done by foreign devotees. ISKCON: The founder-ācārya of ISKCON is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is an Indian. His chief secretary for India is also an Indian. In total, ISKCON has presently about 270 devotees in India, of which at least 150 or about 60% are Indian. Our programs in India have been praised by all leaders. The chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, while inaugurating our Hyderabad center on August 18, 1976, said, "History appears to be repeating itself. One found a revival of temple construction, temple worship, and Gītā-prayana in advanced countries like U.S.A."

Prabhupāda: Not Gītā-prayana. Gītā-parāyaṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Parāyaṇa. Okay. I just copied the spelling from the paper, Parāyaṇa. Okay, I'll change it.

Prabhupāda: No no, that is understood.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No no, that is understood.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "He complimented ISKCON, for disseminating the Vedic culture. West Bengal government officials have praised our agricultural efforts. The principle officer of agriculture of Nadia District in West Bengal said that our Māyāpur farm is receiving attention of nearby farmers, and this farm is acting as a demonstration for them. So the statement that foreign devotees are running ISKCON in India is misleading. Point five, Blitz: Big business in Spiritual Sky. Boss of West Bengal is Gregory M. Scharf. ISKCON: In Māyāpur our devotees make handloom saris, dhotīs, and gāmchās. All over the world our devotees wear the traditional Indian dress of dhotīs, kurtās, and saris. It is our spiritual master's desire that all our devotees overseas only wear clothes made by our devotees in Māyāpur. Spiritual Sky sales and services was formed just to send our Māyāpur handloom and other necessities only to our centers overseas. In return our overseas centers send Māyāpur donations. Even Gandhiji wanted every Indian to be self-sufficient. This is what we are trying to do. We produce our own food and clothing. Instead of criticizing, Blitz should publicize these activities so that others can follow. Gregory M. Scharf's spiritual name is Gargamuni Swami, and he is an initiated disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Blitz has tried to portray him as a businessman who's wearing saffron clothes to deceive people. He is a sannyāsī since 1966. Point six, Blitz: Substantial amounts of foreign money is being received by ISKCON India Limited. ISKCON: First of all, our society is registered and called ISKCON, not ISKCON India Limited." They are purposefully being sarcastic. "It is not a business house. Yes, we do receive remittances from abroad. Every paisa that has been remitted from abroad has come through the reserve bank of India. Bhaktivedanta Swami has written over eighty books which are being sold in every country in the world. These books are selling twelve doubled(?) sixty thousand dollars daily which is about five lakhs. We have over a hundred centers all over the world and all these centers are being run by book sales. In the last three years, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust has published over two million hardbound big books. About three and a half million softbound medium size books and about fifteen million magazines on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you can see the wide acceptance of these books. Out of the 2,800 major universities in America, about ninety percent have purchased one or more of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books. Occasionally we receive contributions. This is not in cash but in kind. For example, Alfred Ford donated two buildings to our Society, one in Honolulu Hawaii, and the other in Detroit, America. In London..."

Prabhupāda: Thank you. You can go and play. You cannot understand.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. B.N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy... Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There's another six year old "god" called Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six year old Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He was producing ash with some magic.

Prabhupāda: Ash?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ash. So all the local, a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded and the child's parents admitted it was bogus. Now that "god" is finished. Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He was six year old Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, "Why should I respond to these people?"

Indian man: He's angry from that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This group of professors, they're exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God.

Prabhupāda: Have you got it?

Pradyumna: Yes.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: And by this collection, from this collection, we are bringing money in India. We are bringing money in India not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month. Our buildings and temples are going on in Bombay, in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa. So we have got at least ten lakhs of rupees expenditure for these temples, and that I am bringing from foreign countries. So if by laboring hard at night in this dictaphone, I write books and I sell them in the foreign countries and I bring the money here for spending in India, do you think it is faulty?

Interviewer: One American professor who is a teacher of Hinduism there, in some of the universities you mentioned, she said, I asked him a question about ISKCON, and she said, "Well this thing is creating a bad impression in the sense that people are accosted everywhere, in the streets, on the airport, at the bus stand. They accost you and force you to buy their literature, to buy their books. And this is creating a revulsion.

Prabhupāda: So why you are forced? Suppose as preaching work... In our childhood we saw the Christian preachers were also standing on the road. So if we stand on the road and preach and sell our books what is the fault?

Interviewer: I put that. He said you are doing what the Christian... (break)

Prabhupāda: No. The government allowed them, the Christian people. The government is allowing us also. Then where is the fault?

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: We have our centers, we have got big centers in Bombay, in Navadvīpa, in Vṛndāvana. We have got very comfortable guest house. So you can come and live with us and see practically.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If you all don't mind, just for five minutes, we would like to read the selected extracts from some leading scholars about this movement. We're not reading the views of Western scholars. These books are being used in five thousand universities, including Harvard, Oxford, Cambridge, Yale, but some of the leading Indian scholars. So you also get an understanding of the Indian appreciation of Prabhupāda's activities. This for example, is a letter from Mr. Ghosh, District and Summon Judge in West Bengal: "I'm highly impressed at the sincerity and devotion of the disciples of the International Society of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. A visit to the Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, sublimes the mind from all harsh talk and disturbing influences." Then...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Stop now. Don't divert attention.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a letter from Śrī Ambarish Sarkar, General Secretary of the Nadia District Congress Committee. "I had an opportunity to visit the Śrī Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir on the 12th August, 1975. It is absolutely a religious institution. Jayapātāka Swami has devoted all of his efforts and endeavors to organize and propound the sacred name of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. I'm impressed by his charming manner and strength. Although it is a religious institution, this organization has performed many social services. Many poor and destitute families have had an opportunity to work and at the same time they have become worshipers of Lord Śrī Caitanya. To engage these workers, so many industrial centers have already been started, such as handloom cloth, printing, etc. I wish this organization, with its help of the local people, all success."

Prabhupāda: We're not only chanting, we are giving them work. We are trying to become self-sufficient, the same idea of Gandhi's village organization, so they may not come out from the village. They'll be satisfied, village economics. That we are doing.

Press Interview -- October 16, 1976, Chandigarh:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Could we just take two minutes of your time? This is a review from Śrī Baradraj, Principle of Government College for Men, Chandigarh. He says, "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is one of the great classics of India. This commentary is a significant contribution to the religious literature of this country. Many of the conflicting views on certain ślokas have been beautifully resolved by Swamiji. I congratulate the members of the Society for bringing out this wonderful work in such a lucid form. I shall be looking forward to the other publications." This is a review from Dr. Varsneya (?), senior professor and Head of Hindi Department, Dean and Curator of Arts, honorary librarian, Allahabad University, Allahabad. "Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has really done a great service to Indian philosophy, religion and culture by translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam into English, with learned commentaries, and has thus provided source material to the Western world. Other philosophical and religious works published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust also present a golden opportunity to the Western philosophers and scholars to drink deep at the celestial fountain of ancient Indian philosophy and spiritual wisdom." I'm just reading a few very quick ones. There's one from a leading professor in Chandigarh who you must be knowing. Dr. Jagadish Sharma, M.A., (indistinct) Delhi? He's from Punjab University. Author of nineteen books including Encyclopedia of India. So here is what Dr. Sharma says. "India's contribution towards the revivalism of the Hindu civilization culture by way of printing the Harvard Oriental Series was tremendous. But the work done by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is unsurpassable." He says it's even greater. "His Holiness has done a great service to the Indian culture by re-interpreting the concepts enshrined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This edition of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go a long way to help the scientists in rediscovering phenomena of the universe which is yet to be discovered. The printing and the get up of this book is excellent. The thoughts of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam radiate to anyone who sees it. This book helps to brighten the gloomy and dark clouds which are covered by the nuclear fear and apprehension of society."

Prabhupāda: Where is that book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness? Some of my students, they are Ph.Ds in science. They have written this book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. And we are going to publish another book, Life Comes From Life.

Hari-śauri: That would be very weighty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So do like that, that this is genuine, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is genuine, cultural and religious movement. This should be taken from all prominent persons and sent there. And the copies of the standing order for all the universities.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Hari-śauri: The order forms.

Prabhupāda: Original orders, that should be copied and sent. This arrangement, ask them all over India and beside that we have recently got a testimony of one University authorities, just like one Goswami from Calcutta University and many others they have got. These copies should be sent immediately. We can approach even the chief justice of Allahabad high-court, he came here, the minister here, the governor of Punjab, he came to see me, the governor...

Hari-śauri: Andhra Pradesh government also.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Andhra Pradesh, chief minister.

Hari-śauri: Immediately (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Minister, Vṛndāvana. Collect all these and send it that this is a genuine movement because it is great cultural movement. Therefore, Swami Bhaktivedanta wanted to give it to Europe who are in the darkness. So anyway, now they are feeling the action of the medicine.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Dr. Saligram?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, Dr. Saligram Sukla.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: Education: he graduated from the University of Cambridge and a B.A. in classical languages 1962. Graduated from Cornell University, Ithaca, New York in Tibetan linguists and he has a Ph.D. in linguistics.

Prabhupāda: Cambridge?

Hari-śauri: He has several, he has several books out. He was born in India in a traditional brāhmaṇa family, he learned Sanskrit at the age of 10, and his knowledge of the Hindu scriptures written in Sanskrit is very profound. He has committed to memory the entire Bhagavad-Gītā scripture and one fourth of the Ṛg Veda. He himself is a worshiper of Kṛṣṇa. His teachings is a way of life and he is extremely competent to judge whether the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is authentic and bona fide.

Devotee (2): He came to see you in Washington.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: So this is his statement. There are 18 chapters in Bhagavad-gītā, 18 thousand verses in the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam and several hundred verses in the Upaniṣads. These are the literary works which form the foundation of Indian culture and religion. They are all in Sanskrit. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement has transcribed these texts, has translated them, and has explained their essence in English. From Sanskrit into English. One is an ancient classical language and the other a foreign language, a difficult task indeed. I have state... (break)

Prabhupāda: Brahman means unlimited happiness. Ananta brahma-saukyam ananta suddhyed sattvam yasmād suddhyed satya. You purify your existence and you are hankering after happiness, you get the unlimited, greatest happiness, yasmād brahma-saukyam anantam. Hm.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, positive.

Hari-śauri: And then this is Dr. Stillson Judah.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: He's a graduate from University of Washington, majoring in oriental studies, graduate from University of California with a Ph.D in Sanskrit and Indian Languages, and he received an honorary degree from Chapman College, Southern California. And he has various posts as professor of history of religion. etc....

Prabhupāda: He has written about us, the big book.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Big book. Bring that, bring that book. After 5 years scrutinizingly studying, statistics, graphics, and he has put my picture in it.

Haṁsadūta: Looks like your book.

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Hari-śauri: Dr. Stillson Judah says, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and more formally the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, ISKCON, is a western representation of an important Hindu sect, Vaisnavism."

Prabhupāda: He says, "Important Hindu sect." How they can say whether it is a genuine? Important, not only genuine but important, Vaisnavism.