University (Conversations 1975)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to present it in some sort of very good arguments, foundations are there. It will be our collective effort.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: There was another devotee, Jñāna dāsa, in Germany, who is a graduate from Oxford University, their school. And we have invited him to come to this meeting but he did not respond. Maybe he will come and help in the future.

Prabhupāda: Mm, yes.

Rūpānuga: He has, what is his field?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. His topic was classical, statistical (indistinct) proof. That was allotted to Jñāna dāsa Prabhu, to Germany. (indistinct) Mahārāja sent a telegram, and I also personally wrote a letter saying that he should participate in writing (indistinct). He has a (indistinct) background, he told me (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is nice, attend. Kṛṣṇa will help you. They are wiping out Kṛṣṇa, and your business will be to establish Kṛṣṇa. Hm.

Prabhupāda: Refute their arguments, then it will be nice. Aiye (Hindi—Prabhupāda greets guests and asks which province of India they come from and they reply Punjab). How long you are here?

Guest (1) (Indian man): (Hindi) Emory University.

Devotee: Oh, Emory.

Guest (1): Yes, Emory. (Hindi—explains that he works at the Primate Center)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are doing research on primates.

Guest (1): I work on the nervous system of primates, trying to find out the effect of broking (?) malnutrition of the mother on the developing fetus.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the field where the scientists are trying to prove that life is originated from matter, this type of research work. I called the director of that institute a couple of days ago and I told him I wanted to look around. And he told me that we need a formal application in order to visit that center so I'm going to make. (to guest:) Ordinarily in there, what do they do?

Guest (1): There are a number of projects and there are a number of disciplines in which people work. Mine is experimental nutrition.

Prabhupāda: So you are also believing that life comes from matter? (laughter)

Guest (2): But rules cannot be...

Prabhupāda: No, that cannot be suppressed, that cannot be suppressed.

Guest (2): ...cannot be subdued, even if this prime minister or Mahatma Gandhi, (indistinct) of Lord Kṛṣṇa and this and that. That is foolishness (indistinct).

Balavanta: This is Dr. Fenton, Prabhupāda, he's a professor of religion at Emory University.

Prabhupāda: Oh! Very good. Hm. (aside) What is the time now?

Devotee: Its twenty of two.

Prabhupāda: Time.

Guest (1): Can we touch your feet, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.

Guest (1): Can we please?

Prabhupāda: Come... You can offer your obeisances. Hm, so that is the father's duty to see the child is grown completely spiritual, so that he may not have to come again in the mother's womb. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9).

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. (Indian guests leave and devotees offer obeisances.) I talk with the professor of religion sometimes, "What is the meaning of religion?"

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that college you are employed?

Professor Fenton: Emory University. Its about three miles from here.

Prabhupāda: So, what definition you give to religion?

Professor Fenton: It has to do with saving, something that binds societies together, it has to do with the supernatural of (indistinct) God. And hm... Sometimes...

Prabhupāda: That there is relationship with God. Is it not? Religion has got relationship with God.

Professor Fenton: Yes, but sometimes it's simply something that holds a society together. Both are religion. Sometimes religion is shameful, sometimes its man's highest glory.

Prabhupāda: Hm... (aside) You come here, I could not follow him.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Professor Fenton: Sanātana-dharma.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Sanātana... Yes, religion should be sanātana. Sanātana means there cannot be any change. Just like every living being eats, you cannot change it. You cannot say that this living entity is not eating. Apart from human society, even in animal society, a living being eats. This is his religion. Sleeps, has sex, these are eternal characteristics. Similarly, religion means spiritual characteristics. That spiritual characteristic is also pervertedly reflected in the material world. Just like every one is servant. Anyone, any one of us, we are all servant. You are serving the University. He is serving the...

Devotee: He is serving, serving.

Prabhupāda: He is serving International Society. I am serving Kṛṣṇa, or he is serving Kṛṣṇa, like that. So everyone is serving, this is religion. To remain a servant. It does not mean that the Hindus are only servant, or Muslims are servant and Christians are not. Everyone is servant. Is it not a fact?

Professor Fenton: I hope it is.

Tripurāri: It's in Rūpānuga's zone.

Prabhupāda: In the Philadelphia University, I think, there was one Mr. Norman Brown.

Rūpānuga: The Temple University.

Prabhupāda: Not Temple, Philadelphia.

Rūpānuga: Temple's in Philadelphia.

Devotee (5): There's one called University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, too.

Rūpānuga: The one who took your Nectar of Devotion?

Prabhupāda: No, that is Temple University. There is another university, I think Pittsburg University.

Devotee (5): The University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Devotee (4): They call it Penn.

Prabhupāda: That university, there is one professor, Norman Brown. I met him. He was a very nice gentleman. He carried my bags to the bus station. He was very kind. His father was a clergyman in India, so he was born in India. So he has got good respect for Indian culture.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Doug: I joined the Maharishi in 1969, and at that time I was living in Washington, D.C. And his national director came, gave a lecture, and they said that they needed some help because they didn't have a center there. So I organized the movement out of my parents' house. I had the center, and I established lectures at all the colleges and started the movement there. And later on, they finally sent some full-time teachers, and they established a center there. And then I started to be with Maharishi and his different courses and doing extensive meditations for long periods of time. And then eventually he formed a committee. This was in 1971-72. He started to form a college called M.I.U., Maharishi International University. And he started to invite educators, and he wanted to... And he also had this...

Prabhupāda: "M.I.U." means Maharishi...?

Doug: Maharishi International University. And so he started to formulate a curriculum. He was trying to present Vedic studies in Western terms. And so he formed this council of the executive called his executive council. It was called The 108. It didn't have 108 people, but this was what he called us.

Prabhupāda: One hundred...?

Doug: The 108. He called it The 108, but the official term was the executive council. And that's what I was with...

Prabhupāda: How many students are there?

Doug: How many students do his meditation?

Prabhupāda: No, the university?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Doug: In the university? I haven't been with them in a year and a half, but they recently bought a college, and they have part of a college in Santa Barbara, the University of California there. So they're pretty well established educationally. But it's losing its potency actually. I think it's actually reached its peak and left, because when I was with Maharishi also I noticed that it seemed that a lot of his potency seemed to diminish, his charisma, over the years. Seemed to me he'd get more and more depressed if people weren't actually reaching the states that he was talking of. It didn't seem like he was satisfied with the advancement people were making. And certainly he wasn't answering the questions, because all that time I was asking him "What is the highest truth." And when he talked to God I would say, "Who is God?" And we'd ask him, "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" and "What about this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement?" And it was word jugglery. He'd kind of evade our questions and satisfy our elan, but... those questions kept coming up. Somehow he kept us from going into too much detail about it. But eventually... I didn't see him for a few days. This was when I was in the mountains with him, some other people. And we were making up these curriculums for this college program. And he was doing some transcriptions on the Brahma-sūtras, and he came out, and he was in a very solemn mood, and he said... We asked him what he had realized, what truths he had realized from the Brahma-sutras. And he said, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of consciousness." So I left shortly after that. I feel that I could have been chanting all those years, making some progress.

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Doug: What is my age?

Prabhupāda: No, his age.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: You mean this movement in the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all our books, they are very nicely being accepted...

Reporter: Yeah, I have some of them.

Prabhupāda: ...by high-class professors, universities, libraries. They are all accepting. You will be surprised to know that we are selling books, according to our Indian currency, twenty lakhs of rupees per month. Out of that, we are spending eight to ten lakhs for all our centers.

Reporter: You have centers all over the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all over the world. In Europe we have got so many centers. Here in London we have got two centers. Similarly, Paris, Germany, four centers. Then Sweden, one?

Haṁsadūta: Sweden and Denmark.

Prabhupāda: Denmark, Holland, and Rome, then Switzerland, Geneva. So we have got several branches here.

Reporter: Are many people joining you?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just see, many people here. Each center we have got not less than fifty men, up to 250. Similarly, we have got in Australia and New Zealand, all over the world. In India we have got six. In India I have got six. In Vṛndāvana, Calcutta, Bombay, Navadvīpa, Hyderabad—in so many places.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is ācārya. So ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Without following the ācārya, if we simply theorize, that is not good. Just like the same example: if you want to put some thesis, the university regulation is that he must be guided by three experienced professor. You cannot simply put forward your thesis without being guided by the experienced professors. That thesis will not be accepted. Similarly, here Arjuna directly hears from Kṛṣṇa. So he says that "You are Parabrahma. Now I understand." Now people may say that "You are accepting Him Parabrahma. Where is your authority? You are friend. You can say Parabrahma or anything—out of love. That is not final." Therefore he quotes that... What is that? Āhus tvāṁ ṛṣayaḥ sarve: "All the big, big ṛṣis, they have accepted You." Svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me: "And You, the Supreme Person, You are also speaking to me. And so far I am concerned, I have realized now that You are the Supreme Lord, Parabrahma." So if we follow Arjuna, then there is no difficulty. Accept Kṛṣṇa as Parabrahma. So Arjuna has heard it from Kṛṣṇa directly. This is the process. Now Kṛṣṇa says that "I accept your statement in toto." What is that language?

Nitāi: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14).

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's not a religion.

Prabhupāda: No, if you want to study something, and suppose you are sometimes from India, the same subject he's going to study in foreign country, farther enlightenment, it is also not necessary that to study a subject matter more and more, we have to remain in the same jurisdiction. If I am actually anxious to know more and more, it doesn't matter whether I get the knowledge from Mohammedan or Hindu or Christian, it doesn't matter. Knowledge is knowledge. When a student goes from one country to another to get farther enlightenment on a subject matter, he does not think that "I'll have to learn it from here, from my university." For knowledge, progress of knowledge, you can go to any university. Because knowledge must be scientific. It is not restricted within the jurisdiction of a particular university. So, sun we are seeing, everyone, the sun, getting heat and light but if anyone is interested (to) know how the heat is coming, how the light is coming, what is the situation of the sun globe, whether there are living entities or not. They're also subject matter. So if you can get enlightenment of the sun, we should not restrict ourselves that we have to study with this jurisdiction of my university, or my country, or my society. If the knowledge is there, we should be prepared to go forward. Mm.

Interview with a German Girl and Assorted Devotees -- March 30, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Nothing. That I talked with big professors. They say. They say like that. Here also, the so-called Indian leaders, they are also thinking like that.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: She says she has heard that in the universities in America it is being taught about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In some of the universities Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being taught.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girl: It's a beginning.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Just like Temple University, they have got this Nectar of Devotion. And many universities, they are studying Kṛṣṇa book, Bhāgavatam. They are gradually accepting. At least the professors, teaching staff, they are accepting. They are studying as one side of views, not seriously.

Girl: (German)

Haṁsadūta: They speculate still.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Rūpānuga: Technology.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rūpānuga: So many gadgets to...

Prabhupāda: Anthropomorphis... What is called? Anthropology.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: University of Avidyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Chuckles) Right you are. Avidyāra bhore. Kota nidrā jāo māyā avidyāra bhore.

Pañcadraviḍa: Psychiatrists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All Western adventure to keep people in darkness. And that is going on. Now it will be smashed by the next war. Next war will come very soon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (Surprised) Oh!

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next war...?

Prabhupāda: Your country, America, is very much eager to kill these Communists. And the Communists are also very eager. So very soon there will be war. And perhaps India will be the greatest sufferer.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: They are not dramatic like our movement. Our movement is very dramatic and obvious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: And we're an obvious cultural movement, whereas they are a hobby.

Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here, then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as students, then the whole situation will be solved.

Devotee (1): Here in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: They are coming to that point, the hippies. Openly they are having sex life, on the street, on the beach. (Break)

Madhudviṣa: We may enjoy while we are here now. If we think about the future, then that means we are taking our mind off the present.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then close all these universities, school, colleges. Close.

Madhudviṣa: Well, that's also for enjoyment at present time because we can get together and have social life.

Prabhupāda: No, it is for future, not for present. The child does not want to go to school, but the father forces him to go for future.

Jayādvaita: That's tangible, though.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayādvaita: That's tangible. You can see. If somebody gets a university education, he gets a job, this, that, but in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can't see how he's going back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: And besides that, why you are keeping money in the bank, do good bank balance?

Madhudviṣa: Because it's giving interest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means for future.

Madhudviṣa: No, I can enjoy the interest in the present.

Prabhupāda: No, you don't enjoy... That the future you may not be in difficulty; therefore... Why insurance? Why the insurance company?

Trivikrama: Also, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can see the result immediately. You become more happy.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Rāmeśvara: You wrote in the Fourth Canto that if we have too much sense pleasure when we are young, then we have corresponding disease when we are older.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here material life means as soon as you violate the rules and regulation, you suffer. Therefore varṇāśrama-dharma is the beginning of perfection in material life. It is the beginning. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). God has created this. If you adopt this institution of varṇāśrama-dharma, then your perfection of life begins. (break)

Jayapatāka: Everyone is sending their sons and daughters to the university and colleges, and they are getting degree, but they are not getting any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a śūdra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the śūdra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya. Śūdras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many śūdras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say "Why...?" Many people I meet in the university they're not involved with science very much. Their main dealings are with culture, literature, arts, philosophy, music. They say... He feels we have very wonderful, beautiful things to study so why should we take up studying what you have to offer. There's so much to study with what we're doing. Why should we join your movement? Why should we give up studying such beautiful music and art and literature?

Prabhupāda: Because you'll like it. And there is beautiful sounds, you'll hear it. Even animals hear it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you sing the same song all the time.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But do you hear it? As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra hundreds of persons, they'll have to hear it. Ask them not to hear it. You go, you scientists, (indistinct) ...don't hear it. They hear it. That's all.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhāratīya samskriti. It will be very respectfully accepted. Why should we imitate them? That is... Western civilization is not brahminical culture. There is no brahminical culture. And brahminical culture is needed. That is the head. That is the brain. And a little bit of this brahminical culture, because I am distributing and they are accepting it so nicely... So in our India, in a place like Vṛndāvana, Naimisaranya, like that, many people will come, if varṇāśrama college is established. Of course, we, in India, so far I know, nobody will come to be trained up as a brāhmaṇa. They will prefer to be trained up as an electrician and not as a brāhmaṇa. Our Bon Mahārāja, he also tried for a Vaiṣṇava University. He was unsuccessful.

Governor: No, we take this electrician or engineer or an...

Prabhupāda: No, that is already being taken. There are institution where electricians are trained up and motorist, they are... They have enough.

Governor: No, what is... What is the... An electrician we get him. He is an electrician and also becoming a brāhmaṇa. An engineer...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that cannot be.

Governor: You want completely a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming as brāhmaṇa, but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: But when I'm a dog I wouldn't want to become a human being either.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this means happiness in ignorance. That is ass. He's bearing two tons of load, and if he is thinking "I am happy," it is nice. Therefore they are called ass. Accepting distress as happiness. Therefore they are called ass. That is the difference between ass and human being.

Amogha: I saw some asses in the university yesterday. Asses and monkeys. One professor was working so hard he was almost crying, because he had so many exams to mark. So great burden on his mind.

Paramahaṁsa: Isn't it, then, if one is happy, that's all that counts? If his happiness is also relative. So if I am a monkey...

Prabhupāda: No. There is absolute happiness. You do not know that. We are meant for that, because we are living beings. But on account of your ass quality you do not like to understand. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti.

Amogha: My parents used to tell me that nothing can be absolutely true, because everything is really finer shades of grey.

Prabhupāda: He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He has no idea what is absolute truth. He is in darkness. He does not know there is absolute world. This is the relative worlds.

Amogha: They think that people who say there is Absolute Truth have not observed the other thoughts of other people, so they haven't seen everything.

Prabhupāda: What is that other thought? We know everyone's thought. We know everyone's thought.

Amogha: In the university newspaper I was reading, all their discussion is about things like homosexuality is all right or not all right.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? They are discussing?

Amogha: Yes. In the newspaper articles in the university. The homosexuals are campaigning for equal rights. And there is a big debate whether homosexuals are good or bad. All over the world there are homosexuals, and also they are arguing over Palestine and Israel. And sometimes (indistinct) In Melbourne there was fighting between people who support Israel and Palestine. All these arguments they have in the newspapers.

Paramahaṁsa: Even in Los Angeles they have a group of homosexuals who used to get harassed by people all the time. So now they have become a military group, and they carry weapons. And if anybody harasses them, they shoot them. They're called Militant Homosexuals.

Amogha: In one high school here they asked the question whether we accept homosexuality. And I said, "Of course not. This is only a perversion." And they said, "This is nature's way to stop overpopulation," because there won't be any children. So much foolish.

Prabhupāda: How degraded the human society is becoming. And the children, they are discussing.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Carol Cameron from the University of West Australia. She has a degree in Social Work, in Arts, and she's working on a Master's Degree in Anthropology. In this degree her paper is on the subject of the influence of Hindu and Buddhist mysticism on the West. So she would like to ask you some questions. This is our spiritual master, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda.

Carol: I would like to know why in the beginning why you came to the West. I know a bit about your background, but not very much. Why you saw the need to come.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking. Of course, it is very strong words. That Western people they are claiming very civilized, but I have got objection. Therefore I have come to the West. Because, for example, the animal-killing. The Western people are mostly Christians. Now, Lord Jesus Christ said that "Thou shall not kill." But the result was that two thousand years passed, but the people of the Western countries, they are still killing. So when they have accepted Christianity? What is your answer?

Carol: But the actual original scriptures aren't enacted in Western life.

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing. Is it not?

Carol: Hmm.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: The intelligent man will have to admit it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: With all the universities and high-class schools they're simply producing...

Prabhupāda: Fourth-class men.

Amogha: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are discussing in the university homosex. They are advanced. Advancement of education. Just see. They are not even fourth-class men; they are animals, producing so many animals, that's all, dogs and hogs. (break) ...in the beginning śamaḥ. Śamaḥ, damaḥ-first two business. Control the sense and keep the mind undisturbed. That is the beginning. Now they are so much sexually disturbed, they're discussing about the profit of homosex. Where is first-class men?

Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...

Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them—that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? (break)

Paramahaṁsa: In that verse it says, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. What is the difference between jñānam and vijñānam?

Prabhupāda: Jñānam means theoretical, vijñānam means practical.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: Oh, sure, to begin with, and so there must be.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, there must be a department to train first-class men. That is required.

Justin Murphy: We don't have them in our universities.

Prabhupāda: So therefore it is chaotic, no first-class men, all third class, fourth class.

Justin Murphy: What are the specifications for your first-class man?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. Satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā.

Paramahaṁsa: Satyam?

Prabhupāda: Śamo damas titikṣā, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Eighteenth Chapter.

Paramahaṁsa: Satyam or satya?

Prabhupāda: Satya. S-a-t-y-a. (devotee looking for verse) You find out jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. Jñānam, find out jñānam. J-n-a-n, jñānam.

Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sister: It is. That's really good, good experience.

Gaṇeśa: My sister is learning at one institute of technology just like the university. She is doing some course in, course in social work... (break) She works at one hospital. Also where else? One psychiatric nursing hospital. She is learning how to perform welfare activities for the benefit of others.

Prabhupāda: And what for your benefit?

Sister: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: What you are doing for your benefit?

Sister: For my benefit? It develops me because it helps me to learn to give to others rather than, you know, for myself.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Everyone is doing for others, but what he is doing for himself?

Sister: Well, I feel it has developed me as a person. You know? I can look more into myself by helping others.

Prabhupāda: So what is the way of helping?

Sister: Well, in the society it's full of problems and people are just sort of lost, and I can't solve their problems, but I can help them to cope with them more adequately. That's what I hope to be able to do when I'm qualified.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...Mahārāja and his father, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. They wanted to preach. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu also wanted to preach. (break) ...book to many Western universities. MacGill University. He had a very strong desire to preach. Then he attempted little. Then his son, my Guru Mahārāja, he was entrusted. He also attempted. He sent his disciple to London. And he wanted me also. Therefore at the last stage of my life, at the age of seventy years (chuckles) I made an attempt that... Our predecessors, they wanted, and they wanted me also to do that. So my other Godbrothers they could not do very well. So let me try.

Dr. Copeland: And what is your relationship with the Ba'hai faith?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Dr. Copeland: The Ba'hai faith that also preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: They preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I don't think.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: They also want to have the same there.

Prabhupāda: Why there is difference? Ladies and gents. Why not equal right?

Śrutakīrti: In some of our modern universities they are doing that.

Prabhupāda: Advancing.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see, foolishness. But at least somewhere there is no equal right in the lavatory. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Greeting someone) I have received your letter, you can see me. (break) (Conversation continues in the car) This too much intermingling of woman means the path of hell. Therefore the restriction is that only the married couple can freely mix, not others. Mahat-sevāṁ dvār... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They are not interested associating with devotees. They are interested associating with man or woman, that's all. Woman is interested to associate with man, and man is interested to associate with woman. Yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Therefore the civilization is becoming hellish. It is already said in the śāstra. One should associate with spiritually advanced men, but that is not being done. Now the woman is hankering after man, man is hankering after woman. Yoṣit saṅg... Yoṣit means for sense gratification. Tamo-dvāram. This is the path of darkness.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: He's medium sized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student. He is my disciple. He challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemicals. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.

Guest 1: They're trying. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are barrister. When you are a student of law you cannot say that "I am barrister," or "advocate," that you cannot say. You are trying to be, that is another thing. But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men." What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how he will do well to other blind men?

Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Madhudviṣa: Beethoven, the great composer, he was deaf.

Guest 3: At least, for part of his life.

Guest 1: But can't you have people doing good for the sake of goodness?

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is good.

Guest 1: But there are certain people...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say blind. He does not know what is good. real goodness is to understand God. That is real goodness.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They do that? (break) Leaders?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) Yes. So the only way that they can attract them is to just let them free in the school. But I said that... (break)

Prabhupāda: I have seen in the Hawaii University, all hippies.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. In Hawaii it's very loose. For instance, even the high schools, they're mostly very loose. But when, after it gets too loose, then the students go so much into sense gratification that then there becomes... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...solution, they will not take it.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, because it would mean they would have... (break)

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent.

Siddha-svarūpa: He speaks straight from his heart so you can... (break) ...that Yogi Bhajan's philosophy though. He wants everybody to come to the... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is responsible for the mistake of the followers.

Prabhupāda: Afternoon is a nice...

Brahmānanda: Yes. (break)

Jayatīrtha: ...men from the University of Southern California wants to come and see you, the chairman and many of the members.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then invite them and give them nice feast, yes. Make arrangement. Time, whatever suitable time you will fix up, I...

Jayatīrtha: We'll discuss it with Upendra when is the best time. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...hīna paśubhiḥ samānaḥ. "As soon as one become bereft of religion, he's animal." That's all. That is the difference between animals and man. They think to become polished animal is advancement of civilization. To become lion is advancement of civilization. "Because I am stronger than the dog therefore I am civilized." Americans think like that. "Because we are stronger than the Chinese dog or Russian cat, therefore I am civilized." (laughs) This is going on. "Because I am tiger, I am lion..." He doesn't think that after, "You be tiger or lion; You are animal." Just see. (break) ...puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ. I think we were discussing this verse? Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...verse would you like to read from this morning?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Sixth Canto, Ajamila.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Well, er...

Prabhupāda: Standing order?

Satsvarūpa: They're still getting them in public libraries in Detroit...

Prabhupāda: They have got standing order from Oxford University.

Satsvarūpa: You heard?

Prabhupāda: No, they have got, sent me the copy of the standing order.

Satsvarūpa: Oh, that's wonderful. They're getting letters from big professors at Cambridge and Oxford in praise of the books. They'll be very, very useful.

Bahulāśva: (break) ...professors are very impressed with your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bahulāśva: All the professors are very impressed with your books.

Prabhupāda: Impressed?

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The difficult subject matter, they set aside.

Bahulāśva: They avoid.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: But this gerontology is not a major subject in any of the universities yet.

Prabhupāda: They know, "It is not possible by us." They know it.

Bahulāśva: I was speaking with Professor Stahl about this point in Berkeley. And he also had no answers for this question. He thought that there was no such thing as eternal life.

Prabhupāda: Well, then, therefore you are a rascal. Then why you are struggling to live? Why, when you are sick, why do you call doctor, physician? Why this tendency? Why you are making research in medical science, opening hospital? Die. Why you are not willing to die? Then what is the answer? He says, "There is no such thing as eternity," but why you are struggling for eternity? Then what is the answer? Hmm?

Bahulāśva: Well, when we tell them your philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he became silent. The one... We were having a debate, and the one chairman of the debate, he then he turned to Mr. Stahl. He said, "So what do you think of this answer, Mr. Philosopher?" And Mr. Stahl just sat there very quiet. He couldn't say anything.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Everyone is trying to live. That is Darwin's theory also, "struggle for existence." So why you are trying to exist if there is no such thing?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they say, "We don't mind if we're not eternal, but we want to live as long as possible."

Prabhupāda: Why? That is my question. Why? Why this tendency?

Revatīnandana: Some years back...

Prabhupāda: That means it is unnatural. "I am eternal, but this death has been forced upon me. That is unnatural." That is intelligence.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? To that boy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you know? To his secretary. When he asked him that "I want real spiritual life," then he said, "Then go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Bahulāśva: They have started a university also, and they are using your books at that university.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. (laughs)

Bahulāśva: Yeah, Maharishi, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: No, Maharishi has got respect for me. Even this, what is that? Cintāmaṇi?

Harikeśa: Cinmayananda?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī Cinmoya.

Bahulāśva: From Bombay?

Prabhupāda: No, no. He has also. He has also. He has given us a certificate: whatever I wrote, he has signed it. Everyone has respect.

Prabhupāda: I have seen children, on the street they are smoking. I was surprised. When I came in America I saw small children, they were smoking.

Revatīnandana: One devotee boy, a young boy in Laguna Beach, was telling me that in his school, when he was in high school in Las Vegas, even in the classroom the fifteen, sixteen year old students were smoking marijuana in the classroom of the school.

Prabhupāda: In New York University, I think Brahmānanda?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The students were smoking.

Brahmānanda: You were the first one to say, "Please stop smoking. Otherwise I will not speak." They were shocked. They were stunned at such a request.

Prabhupāda: So what is the psychology of this? They cannot stop smoking. And smoking is admitted, "It is injurious." So how you will do benefit? If you cannot stop the stop the student from smoking, then how you will do him benefit? You know that smoking is bad. So even if you study from psychological point of view and if you cannot rectify the wrong thing, then what is the use of studying? You cannot stop it. So find out the means how to stop it, and that means is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if they read my books, they will be benefited. There is no doubt about it.

Bahulāśva: Yes. Then they can get a degree recognized by the state of California so they can teach in universities all over the whole country.

Prabhupāda: That I want. Do it. We want to give degrees, at least B.A., M.A., and Ph.D., according to the advancement of knowledge. And that will be very much beneficial to your country. Then America will be saved from disaster and it will be the leader. The country will be leader of the whole world. Take this advantage.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are some questions about exactly how to do this college. We will be licensed by the state of California, that is no problem. We can get a license immediately.

Prabhupāda: Get it.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Get it, and the, what is called, syllabus, that we shall give. We have got so many books. We shall select this book for graduate, this book for post-graduate, and these books for Ph.D.'s.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Even you have different levels. Like they can undergraduately study Bhagavad-gītā, but in graduate they can study it more intensely, like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in general course they select some passages from some books. So we can do that.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). This is kāraṇam, that he is associating with different modes of material nature and he is getting a suitable body. So where is that science to understand this subtle work of nature? Where is that science? Where is that education in the universities? You are not free. You cannot say "that I shall live life like this." You can live, but take the risk of next life. Therefore they avoid this question: "There is no next life." That is very horrible. But that does not mean... Just like the, what is that animal? Closes the eyes?

Jayatīrtha: Ostrich.

Prabhupāda: Ostrich. When there is danger, it closes eyes: "No danger." But that does not mean no danger. The danger is there. You may close your eyes. This is going on. The whole education system is foolish. Because they are thinking independent.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: Also, should this college have men and woman or just men?

Prabhupāda: No, why? Everyone. We have no such discrimination. But not cats and dogs. (laughter) Human being. Never mind what he is.

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Māyāpur you were speaking about you wanted Māyāpur to become a college for the University of Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: No, why Māyāpur? Everywhere. The whole educational system should be changed.

Bahulāśva: We should take it over.

Prabhupāda: Not changed. At least this will remain as a departmental knowledge.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible to make wholesale change, but at least let them accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a departmental knowledge.

Bahulāśva: We were wondering if Ravīndra-svārupa could come and help on this project. Because if we can get established in Berkeley first... It's such a big university.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do that.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) He is family man?

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, so what is the anxiety? We can take charge of their family. How old he is?

Bahulāśva: He's about sixty-five. He's just getting ready to retire. He's retiring this year.

Prabhupāda: So retire.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He's in very good health, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bahulāśva: We spoke with him that when we incorporate Berkeley temple as a university, he can be affiliated with that, and he thought that would be very nice.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So let him help that our center be affiliated.

Bahulāśva: Yes. We were thinking if it was, if it pleased Your Divine Grace, maybe he could teach one class in his book, and we can have some students come there.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Revatīnandana: Is that the one at Pomona College?

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, this is another one at U.S.C., University of Southern California.

Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. In fact, one is coming over this afternoon.

Brahmānanda: Today two are coming.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Actually at the University of Southern California around three or four members of the religion department want to come, including the chairman.

Prabhupāda: So let them come. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...yesterday that Indian gentleman, Dr. Singh? He had become very doubtful when you told him they didn't go to the moon. He was saying, "Do you think they really didn't go?" (laughter) He never thought of that before, that they might have just made a show.

Prabhupāda: No. If we believe in our Bhāgavata, they have not gone. It is above the sun planet, 1,600,000 miles above. How they can go?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Atom, atom not question of seeing. You can count all the atoms throughout the universe; still, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. You may be so great scientist that you can count each and every atom within the universe, but still, you shall remain unable to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the śāstra. Now here is sand. You can say, "There are so many sands." And this is only a small beach, but you can say how many sands and atoms are there within the universe. You can become so qualified. But still, you are unqualified to understand Kṛṣṇa. Radhakrishnan, Dr. Radhakrishnan was a good man, brāhmaṇa, but he was victimized by the western culture. He got some money from Oxford University. Therefore he took the westerner—his father mother, that's all. That is his qualification. Whatever the westerners say, they will say, he will say, "Yes, this is science." Not only Dr. Radhakrishnan, all the big men of India, they thought like that.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: 4.13.

cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ

guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ

tasya kartāram api māṁ

viddhy akartāram avyayam

(BG 4.13)

"According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me. And, although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies. And if you say that "If you act like cats and dogs, you will become dog next life," they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" (laughter) This is education. He is prepared to become a dog. He does not know what is the distinction between dog and human being. He is seeking after the dog's facility that he can have sex on the street. He is thinking the dog life is advantageous. This is the position. Therefore Professor Judah has written me this letter, that "I am simply surprised how you have converted the drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." This is his words.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: The universities nowadays don't teach any courses in the nature of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he says, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" Because there is no education. He does not know the difference between dog and the human being. Therefore he says that "What is the wrong if I become a dog? I will get more facility for sex without any criminal charges." This is the advancement of education.

Dr. John Mize: How does the mind, then, come to know that there is a soul?

Prabhupāda: That I say, that you have to educated. How these people are convinced about the soul? They have been educated by practice and by knowledge. Everything has to be learned by being educated. And therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārtham, "In order to know that science," gurum eva abhigacchet, "you must go to guru, teacher." So the answer is that you must go to the teacher who can teach you how the soul is there.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, did you speak about Kant's philosophy in that book also? Yes? He is very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kant is very popular. I was also a student of philosophy. In my student life my professors were all Europeans. I was student of Scottish Church's College in Calcutta. So one professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was our professor for psychology, metaphysics. Later on, he became the vice-chancellor of Calcutta University. A very nice gentleman.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Dr. Mize finds that he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa a little in the shower now. When he takes a shower, he chants a little.

Prabhupāda: One press reporter in the Berkeley University in the beginning, he wrote his article and he wrote that after hearing this Hare Kṛṣṇa for a few minutes, I came home chanting all the road, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." He gave this report.

Dharmādhyakṣa: I think many scholars have a hard time realizing how just by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is so nice and so easy.

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...that the highest philosophical realization can come from chanting.

John Mize: Thank you.

Devotee: Mrs. Salim has given these flowers and clock.

Jayatīrtha: That gentleman who came over last night, he has brought this present.

Prabhupāda: Take. (eating)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: I was lecturing in the University of Marin in San Francisco. So I was explaining that, and one man said, "This is just your sentiment. You just have some sentiment." So I asked him if he had a dog. And he said, "Yes." So I said that "When your dog becomes old, will you kill it?" So he said, "No, why shall I kill it. It's a good dog." So...

Prabhupāda: Dog is good; cow is bad. Dog is creating always nasty things, and cow is so pure, even the stool is pure, and she has to be killed.

John Mize: The question has been asked about the unfertilized eggs, why they should not be eaten.

Prabhupāda: Unfertilized, but there is potency of fertilization. You check the progress of one living entity coming out of it.

John Mize: Once the egg is laid, there is no chance for it to be fertilized.

Prabhupāda: No, egg is... The living entity is already there. Just like a woman is pregnant means the living entity is already there. So as soon as there is egg, the living entity is already there. It is taking time to come out. Just in the womb of the mother, the child is taking time to grow and become fit to come out.

John Mize: True, but the egg in the mother has been fertilized by the male sperm, whereas the egg laid by a chicken was not fertilized...

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. They have got that potency. There are four kinds of birth: from the egg, from the vegetable, from fermentation, and from embryo. So from any of these four kinds of sources the living entity come out. Aṇḍa-ja, udbij-ja, jaraya-ja, and sveda-ja, the Sanskrit name. Sveda-ja, simply by perspiration. Just like unclean bed they produce bugs. The man gets perspiration, bad perspiration, and in contact with air, with this perspiration, the living entity comes. That is bug. This is called sveda-ja, "out of perspiration." Your coat, shirt, if you don't cleanse, or your body is unclean, you will find so many moths within the shirt. How it is coming? From the perspiration, bad perspiration, bad smell. Not that every time the male female combination required. There are other sources also.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: And this is Dr. John Pore. He is the chairman of the religion department at the University of Southern California, and he has written a few books called "The Radical Suburb" and "Ethical Choice," and his academic interest is in ethics and religion and culture and education in public policy. And this is Dr. Crossley back here, also from the University of Southern California. He has a doctor of theology, and he is interested in modern theology. He's written many articles on modern theologians...

Prabhupāda: Then why modern theology? (laughter) Is God modern?

Dr. Crossley: No, but one can't do all theologians, one can't do every theologian.

Prabhupāda: No, "theo" means God, is it not?

Dr. Crossley: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And theology is science of God. So what is that science? You are trying to understand God, or you know God; you are going to abide by God's dictation. First of all, two things: you do not know God; you are trying to find out God. I think this is not theology; it is theosophy. Those who are trying to find out God by speculation, they are theosophist. And theologist means one who knows God and abides by his order. Just like we know government and we accept the government's law and abide by it. That is good citizenship. And those who have no government, they are trying to find out some good system of government, and that is another thing. So what is your position? You know God or you are trying to find out God? What is the theologician's position? That is my question.

Dr. Crossley: It's both.

Prabhupāda: No, both cannot be.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Pore: I think you're being a little unfair to Dr. Crossley. I think what you say is true, that the most important thing we can do is to seek and know God, but I don't think it's right to say that it's a bad thing to study how other people or how man has...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say bad thing. I say if you are serious about God, now, here is God.

Dr. Pore: That's what a university in part is for, to study about how people have thought on different matters.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. I have already said. If you are seeking after something, if you get that something, why don't you accept it?

Dr. Pore: Do you believe that Christ said that Kṛṣṇa was his father?

Prabhupāda: The name may be different. Just like in our countries we say this flower something. You say something, something. But the subject matter must be the same. Name is not... You can say in a different way, as you understand. But God is one. God cannot be two. You may give Him different names. That is different thing. But God is one. God cannot be two.

Dr. Wolfe: We may assume, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that God has innumerable names.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: If God is known by many different names, though, is it not possible, then, to know God then in many different ways, in many different traditions?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like you are the same person, either as professor in the university or at home before your wife, you are the same person. Your wife may address you in a different name, and the students may address you in different name, but you are the same person.

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: If the person is the same, so difference of name does not change the circumstances.

Dr. Wolfe: But there are many aspects of God, of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: Yes, it was what they called "atheistic Christianity." (laughter) But as I say, I do not feel that this is representative of Christianity today. And I think that the very fact that this "death of God theology" did become so popular at one particular period is one of the particular reasons why more people have wanted, then have rejected this and have wanted to find some experience of God, find it in their lives to prove, as it were, that He does exist. I think this has been certainly one of the instruments that has caused people to try to seek the reality of God in various ways. In Sufism, I know, in Berkeley they're seeking God, and in the Vedānta and in many other of the different movements, some of them from India and some of them from Japan, particularly in the case of Zen Buddhism which has become very popular. And then, of course, there's always the Sokagaktii(?) in the Bay area which also is very influential among many of the university students, and which, of course, does chanting also. It's a form of bhakti in Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: Actually, nobody has got clear idea of God. This is the difficulty. Nobody knows. We can challenge them. Nobody knows what is God. We can challenge. (break) (in car)

Dr. Judah: ...o'clock this morning.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone rises at three o'clock.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Actually, I began this movement from July '66. I came in '65 but I could not do anything. I was loitering here and there. Actually, I began my preaching work from '66, June, July, I think, yes.

Dr. Judah: You must have been one of the hippies he converted there in Tompkins Park then.

Brahmānanda: Well, I wasn't quite a hippie. (laughter) There weren't hippies at that time. It was just beginning. So I had been to the university. I graduated NYU. But I'd been to India.

Dr. Judah: You had been to India?

Brahmānanda: Yes. I was planning on going back also. I wanted to take a further degree. I was applying for a Fulbright.

Dr. Judah: I see. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...by simply inquiring about Kṛṣṇa, you have become Kṛṣṇaized.

Dr. Judah: Yes, I think, yes.

Prabhupāda: Because several times you had to utter the word Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is... But actually that is the fact. That is the fact. Our temple is the best. (chuckles)

Dharmadyaksa: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: Now you make a best college. Yes. Vedic Theological College, affiliated to the California University. Then it will be successful.

Rādhā-vallabha: People are always anxious to see what we are going to do next.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: Even in Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple they were asking when is our Vṛndāvana temple going to be opened.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...police are also becoming very favorable. Even when they arrest us, actually they want to hear Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Prabhupāda laughs) When they arrest us, while they are writing the tickets, we read to them out of the books.

Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was child, His mother's friend would tease Him so that He may cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He will stop. To see that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa He is pacified to see this fun, they would tease Him first of all, and He would cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will... (break)

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything, we have got enough facility. We are not going to rent anyone, anyway, any room. We shall utilize it for our purpose only, receiving guest, organizing this book sale. That is my idea.

Jagadīśa: Thank you very, very much for asking me. I will go immediately.

Prabhupāda: You are capable. I know that. He is very capable. You know how to do business, yes. In India an educated man and big, big government officers, lawyers, they will purchase. We do not approach them. School, colleges, library, universities. After all, English language is still current in India. It is not stopped. So they will like to read their own literature in English. They made vigorous propaganda to replace English by Hindi. That has failed. That has failed. No gentleman cares to learn Hindi. (chuckles) At least I never cared. I know Hindi, not by diverting my attention, no. That is very important, no. Automatically whatever I learned, that's all. I am not in favor of that Hindi. Especially in South India, they are all... So by appointing some professional men also.

Brahmānanda: Some agents.

Prabhupāda: Some agents, selling agents. Simply one has to organize vigorously.

Paramahaṁsa: There's that big book company, Wheeler?

Prabhupāda: Wheeler, yes. They can take all small books. They cannot take...

Brahmānanda: We'd sell them in the train stations?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Brahmānanda: That Wheeler, they have shops in every train station.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 28, 1975, Denver:

Satsvarūpa: You said Murāri Gupta was a doctor in both ways.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: (break) Prabhupāda, yesterday one of the library parties visited this Maharishi University which is an estate nearby. And it's very impressive they said. It's a big university, many buildings. But in the library they had no books of Vedic literature, so they took our books. And they said they are very glad to get them. They had nothing. Buildings, but no books.

Prabhupāda: University without books. (laughter) Very good university. Anyway, if they are taking our books, that is good. What he will have? He is also another bogus man. But you people want to be cheated by this yoga, meditation. Therefore he has been able to get some facility. Only a selected group has come to me. Otherwise, they do not understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Those people won't listen to any philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they have been cheated by this man.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Viṣṇujana: Is it all right to put the Deities on the altar in the temple, on Lord Jagannātha's altar while He's gone?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...private houses or...?

Bhavānanda: Some of them are university and some are private. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the news we have got the "no objection" certificate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? For the temple or the...

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's for a skyscraper building or for the temple?

Prabhupāda: Temple. The chief minister has sanctioned. He is very nice man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nayika(?)?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Nayika was a rogue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A new one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is Chyavan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So now we can build two towers and a temple.

Prabhupāda: Now bring money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what is the plan? To send money or books?

Prabhupāda: No, money. (break)

Morning Walk Excerpt -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: He's a graduate of Princeton University, a very big, big university.

Brahmānanda: I think he was the president of his class.

Prabhupāda: He is president?

Jayatīrtha: He was the president of his class at Princeton.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...distribution he is right man.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Sat's men are hand-picked. It takes a very special devotee to be able to speak with these professors intelligently.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Jayatīrtha: At the library convention in San Francisco we had that booth there. So I went to see them and they appeared very professional with their suits and their wigs.

Brahmānanda: Successful?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Beginning from Madras, very big, big temples. In Vṛndāvana also, that Raṅganātha temple?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. There are some nice temples in the north.

Prabhupāda: In south, many. (sings:) Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Prabhu... These are all university house or private?

Jagadīśa: Some university and some private. After here, these are private homes.

Prabhupāda: All very nice house.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let them, every house, small temple, perform kīrtana. Then this will be all success. Do not cook meat. Nice prasādam. Everything can be utilized for better purpose. Now, in the morning, they are sleeping. Nidrāya hriyate naktaṁ vyavayena ca vā vayaḥ (SB 2.1.3). At night either sleeping or sex, and daytime, divā carthehaya rājan kutumba-bharaṇena vā (SB 2.1.3). Daytime, "Where is money? Where is money?" Oh, seventy miles' speed. "Go there. There is some money." All right, take money. Then what is your next business? Kutumba-bharaṇena vā. Just to purchase for the family, finish money. Again tomorrow. "But where is the business of your spiritual life?" "No time. What can we do? Night we are busy in this way, and day we are busy. Where is the time? Don't bother us." (laughs) Divā carthehaya rājan kutumba-bharaṇena vā (SB 2.1.3). (break) ...try to make them devotees, they will not become?

Jayatīrtha: Not very easily.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. And Bhaktivedanta Manor?

Ghanaśyāma: I think about maybe thirty-five. Some of the boys go to Scotland frequently. So they sort of share the devotees with the three temples.

Prabhupāda: Edinburgh. So you have been in Edinburgh University?

Ghanaśyāma: No. I don't know. Prabhupāda, they have a program there with the Indians. The Indians are supporting the temple there now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Ghanaśyāma: The Indians, they're paying for the devotees' prasādam and supporting the temple.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Anna-dāna.

Ghanaśyāma: They make vows to give a certain amount to help the devotees out every week. They have a big chart. One Indian might make a vow that he will pay for all the wheat or all the breakfast prasāda for the devotees for that month, and he'll give that much money. (Prabhupāda laughs) It's very nice. They kind of compete with each other to see who's doing the most. They go out and make life members. They make, sometimes, five, six life members in one day.

Prabhupāda: So we shall go further? Our time is up.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Gurudāsa: When we went to see him, he hardly could speak.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because of his inductive knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That's all. He became a victim of the western people. Because the Oxford University was paying him very nicely, he became a servant of the western thought. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in the evolutionary cycle, the transmigration of the soul, we were inquiring whether there's any specific details in the Vedas about the step by step transmigration of the spirit, of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes. From the aquatics to the plants, and then insect, then bird, then beast, then human being.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then it's the same with the Darwin's Theory.

Prabhupāda: Darwin has taken from here, and he has tried to explain in a hodgepodge way so that he may get the credit, that's all.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: The plants have more consciousness, manifest consciousness, than aquatics?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: That plants and grass, they are more conscious than aquatics.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also mentioned in the Bhāgavata, about different animals, how they are conscious, developed.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.

Sandy Nixon: I'm asking these questions for others, of course, a field(?) that is not understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: To understand God means one must be first-class civilized man. Just like university is meant for first-class student, similarly, God consciousness means meant for the first-class human being.

Sandy Nixon: O.K. This question's a hard one for me to ask because it shows ignorance on my part. But I'm not asking it in ignorance. I want your answer on tape, O.K.? Does all desire ultimately have to go, including the desire to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will have simply rubbish desires. And when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you desire rightly.

Sandy Nixon: The aim of many spiritual paths is to find the guru within.

Prabhupāda: Within?

Sandy Nixon: The guru within. Is this different...?

Prabhupāda: Who says that, to find guru within?

Sandy Nixon: Um...

Jayatīrtha: Kirpal Singh, he's one person who says that.

Guru dāsa: Krishnamurti says that also.

Prabhupāda: So why does he come to teach? (laughter) This rascal, why does he come to teach? This is the answer. These things are spoken by rascals. He has come to teach, and he says, "Find out guru within." Then why you have come to teach? Because people are not intelligent, they cannot catch him. He talks all nonsense, and they hear, that's all.

Brahmānanda: Golden Gate Park?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Golden Gate. What happened about that house?

Citsukhānanda: We are still trying to negotiate, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...university. It is almost like, not so big. You were in, anyone? Paris?

Brahmānanda: Yes, Sorbonne. I've been there, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not so big.

Brahmānanda: No.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: But this is huge. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...consider nim sacred. (break) ...psychology. (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...singing and dancing are great stimulants to self-realization. And he says but he doesn't know why, but he said that perhaps if we study the glands more carefully, we will find out why singing and dancing stimulates identity. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...parvato muākam aprasavat: "Himalaya will give birth children." So many people gathered, "Must be very gigantic." But they saw only rats are coming. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...is from this school, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Yadubara?

Bahulāśva: Right here, Yadubara.

Brahmānanda: Poor Yadubara. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So similarly, there may be others who are still advanced. Therefore the most advanced is God. This should be the psychology. As we see there is difference between dogs and hogs and man, so go on. Search out. So when you find out the most intelligent person, then he is God. (break) ...parataraṁ nānyat. That is statement of Bhagavad-gītā: "No more intelligent. Here, ultimate. I am God." So from psychological point of view how they can deny God?

Yadubara: No one is teaching that in this big university. Therefore the students are very discouraged, depressed.

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Paramaḥ, paramaḥ means the Supreme. Our definition of God is that supreme in every respect. What man can do, the dog cannot do. What the dog can do, the cat cannot do. What the cat can do, the rat cannot do. So we see so many differences. Therefore there must be others who are more intelligent than man. That is demigod. And there must be others most intelligent than the demigods. In this way when you come to the final, that is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Go on finding out more, more, more. When you come to the final, that is God or Kṛṣṇa. So we take instruction from Him. Therefore we are better than the so-called university professors.

Prabhupāda: Why they were committing suicide?

Yadubara: Because everyone was very depressed. This is supposed to be enlightenment, a place of knowledge. But everyone was very depressed.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university and they taught me in psychology, and it was a priest. And they were teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use these textbooks that teach this materialism.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get experience daily. In the daytime we have forgotten the night dream, and night dream we forget in this daytime existence. So which is correct? Therefore it is hallucination.