Understand Krsna (Conversations 1976)

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

How you have understood Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of people, one becomes siddha, and out of many millions of siddhas, hardly one can understand Me." So how you have understood Kṛṣṇa so easily, within two years? What you have understood Kṛṣṇa, that is materially understood. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. That is prākṛta-sahajiyā. "Oh, we have understood. Kṛṣṇa was a playboy, dancing with His girls. Bas, we have understood. Now we shall..."

Rāmeśvara: "If I follow the regulative principles and go on hearing about rāsa-līlā, then I'll be purified."

Prabhupāda: You say that. In the śāstra does not say. Śāstra says that after you have studied all the nine cantos of Bhāgavatam, then enter into the tenth. Sahajiyā means they take very easily. "I am.... Everything is all right. Now I am perfect." That is sahajiyā. Kṛṣṇa says, "To understand Me, it will take millions of years." And they understand Kṛṣṇa immediately. That is their.... That is called prākṛta-sahajiyā.

Prabhupāda: Let them do. Scientifically, there is life after death. That we repeatedly say, that my child's body is dead, it's gone, vanished. I have got a different body. So after death there is life. This is practical. So this Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is authoritative statement of God, and practically we see that we get one body after another, but I continue. So where is the objection? So there is life after death. So-called death means annihilation of the body. So if we can stick to that life, that there is no more death, then that is to be sought after. That is intelligence. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa and you become fit to go back to Him, then no more death.

Dr. Wolfe: These people who are investigating into this, into the problem of life after death, are basing their observations on dying people. And there are three or four authors now, especially one woman who is a specialist in the field of dying. She is convinced, firmly convinced, that there is life after death. Her name is Kubler-Ross, and she has written several books on the subject.

Prabhupāda: Where she is, English? English woman?

Dr. Wolfe: She is American, German-American.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she is here in America.

Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Bharadvāja: He can take it directly without having performed some pious activities?

Prabhupāda: He'll take.... No, if he accepts, that is pious. And Kṛṣṇa comes personally to canvass, "You rascal, take this and be happy." But he'll not do. Although it takes millions of years to come to that understanding, Kṛṣṇa personally comes: "You take it. I assure you, I shall give you all protection," but they'll not take it.

Bharadvāja: To everyone?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When He comes here, He comes for everyone. When He teaches Bhagavad-gītā, is it for Arjuna? Everyone. (break) ...play is not distinct in the record.

Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Not distinct enough? I can make it louder.

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Indian (devotee?): Prabhupāda, do you want me to send it to you?

Prabhupāda: Eh? You have translated?

Indian: Yes, I have here the first chapter.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you go on reading.

Indian: Adhunika...

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead has innumerable energies, and all of these energies are divine. Although the living entities are part of His energies, and are therefore divine, due to contact with material energy their original superior power is covered. Being thus covered by material energy, one cannot possibly overcome its influence. As previously stated, both the material and spiritual natures, being emanations from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, are eternal. The living entities belong to the eternal superior nature of the Lord, but due to contamination by the inferior nature, matter, their illusion is also eternal. The conditioned soul is therefore called nitya-baddha, or eternally conditioned. No one can trace out the history of his becoming conditioned at a certain date in material history. Consequently, his release from the clutches of material nature is very difficult, even though that material nature is an inferior energy, because material energy is ultimately conducted by the Supreme Will, which the living entity cannot overcome. Inferior material nature is defined herein as divine nature due to its divine connection and movement by the divine will. Being conducted by the divine will, material nature, although inferior, acts so wonderfully in the construction and destruction of the cosmic manifestation that the Vedas confirm this as follows: māyāṁ tu prakṛtiṁ vidyān māyinaṁ tu maheśvaram. Although māyā is false and temporary, the background of māyā is the supreme magician, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is Maheśvara, the supreme controller. Another meaning of guṇa is rope. It is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly bound by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself. He must be helped by a person who is unbound, because the bound cannot help the bound. The rescuer must be liberated. Therefore only Lord Kṛṣṇa or His bone fide representative the spiritual master can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature. Devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can help one gain such release. Kṛṣṇa, being the Lord of the illusory energy, can order this insurmountable energy to release the conditioned soul. He orders this release out of His causeless mercy on the surrendered soul, and out of His paternal affection for the living entity, who is originally a beloved son of the Lord. Therefore surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord is the only means to get free from the clutches of the stringent material nature. The words mām eva are also significant. Mām means unto Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, only, and not Brahmā or Śiva. Although Brahmā and Śiva are greatly elevated and are almost on the level of Viṣṇu, it is not possible for such incarnations of rajo-guṇa (passion) and tamo-guṇa (ignorance) to release the conditioned soul from the clutches of māyā. In other words, both Brahmā and Śiva are under the influence of māyā. Only Viṣṇu is the master of māyā. Therefore He alone can give release to the conditioned soul. The Vedas confirm this in the phrase tvam eva viditvā, or 'Freedom is possible only by understanding Kṛṣṇa.' Even Lord Śiva affirms that liberation can be achieved only at the mercy of Viṣṇu. Lord Śiva says, mukti-pradātā sarveṣāṁ viṣṇur eva na saṁśayaḥ: 'There is no doubt that Viṣṇu is the deliverer of liberation for everyone.' "

Prabhupāda: The institution is already there. We are conducting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if the government cooperates that a certain number of students must be trained up scientifically what is the meaning of God, that will be very much beneficial to the state or to the country. We can give solution for any problem. "We" means Kṛṣṇa. We are simply preaching Kṛṣṇa's message. Kṛṣṇa means God. Kṛṣṇa means black also. Kṛṣṇa, this word, (chuckles) means black also. He is following?

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the solution. Therefore our only business should be to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. That makes the solution-tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Our propaganda is how to understand Kṛṣṇa. And this yoga, Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga, simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is explained.

mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha

yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ

asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ

yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu

(BG 7.1)

Without any doubt. And if you, asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ mām, if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). We are therefore requesting everyone, study Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't interpret. Don't screw out your concocted meaning. Then your life is successful. Every politician, every scholar, everyone is trying to screw out some meaning. That is the disease. But we say, we are begging people, that "You read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and try to understand it." Very simple thing. We haven't got to become very learned scholars. Our business is to go to you and request you, "Please read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Don't try to interpret it." That is our preaching. Very simple. Because Bhagavad-gītā, the instruction is there, and we haven't got to manufacture anything. So as a peon, we carry only: "You please read it as it is." Or you try to explain as it is. And where is the explanation? Everything is clear.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa comes Himself to teach what is God and what is the relationship with God. And people still mistake. Therefore He comes as devotee, how to teach people how to approach Kṛṣṇa. These things are there. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to understand Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Otherwise, it is very difficult. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). And Caitanya Mahāprabhu especially appeared to give Kṛṣṇa. Therefore if we go through Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we understand Kṛṣṇa very quickly. And as soon as we understand Kṛṣṇa, we become liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), the whole solution of all problems.

Prof. O'Connell: Swamiji, do you know Professor Bimal Motilal came in during your discourse?

Prabhupāda: Oh, (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Motilal. (converses in Hindi) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). These things are unknown in the Western countries. So anyone who has taken birth in India, Bhārata-varṣa, they should make his..., one should make his life perfect by assimilating all these śāstras and preach the resultant action to the outsiders. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission-pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) So you Indians, you are here, you assimilate the teachings of Gītā, Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and help these people. That is India's business.

Woman: Swamiji, would you say something about the place of women in your movement?

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jāhnavā devī was-Nityānanda's wife. She became. If she is able to go to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru? But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru. But man or woman, unless one has attained the perfection.... Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). The qualification of guru is that he must be fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then he or she can become guru. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā, sei guru haya. (break) In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.

Indian man: Well, to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do you not require adhikārī?

Prabhupāda: Adhikārī means he must agree to understand. That is adhikārī. But we do not agree. That is our fault.

Indian man: Is this agreement due to learning or out of...?

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The beginning is to understand this transmigration. But actually people do not understand. Cycle of birth and death, if one does not understand what is birth and death, what he'll understand of cycle of birth and death? Mostly because they do not understand what is birth and what is death, they are mostly going on on the bodily concept of life. That is animal life. Ask anybody. Bodily concept. And everything is going on. We pass through Canada to USA. Why Canada? Why USA? This bodily concept. It is meant for the Canadians, it is meant for USA, Americans. Immigration, customs, the same mentality as a dog coming from other neighborhood. The other dogs, they all come together, "Yow, yow, why you have come, why you have come?" In civilized dress only. This is the position. What is the difference between the dog's mentality... When another dog comes to another neighborhood, these neighborhood dogs, you know that? All animals: "Yow, why you have come?" So this department, "Why you have come here?" dogs barking, and this immigration, what is the difference? Is there any difference? This is our policy. Very difficult. (break) ...they will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their mentality is not better than the animals.

Hari-śauri: It's probably a lot worse.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Worse, because animal has got some limit, but a human being who has developed consciousness, it is unlimited. Just like a thief is thief, but when an attorney-at-law is a thief, he's a very big thief. Huh?

Hari-śauri: When a man's educated to know the difference...

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tathā dehāntara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact. Huh? Their education is so advanced. (laughter) Therefore mūḍha, the word is used. So-called education keeps them as an ass. Cannot understand the simple truth. So everyone is getting milk? How much?

Kīrtanānanda: As much as they want.

Prabhupāda: As much as they want, then jaundice. (laughter) Too much is not good. They may take minimum half pound per head.

Kīrtanānanda: Minimum.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said we can't understand Brahman unless we understand Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real understanding. And without Kṛṣṇa, if you understand brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, then you fall down.

Kulādri: But it seems then you have to come to the full understanding before it does any good.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means those who are simply trying to understand Brahman, they are not understanding.

Kulādri: Then what does it mean gradual process, gradual advancement in transcendental realization?

Prabhupāda: Gradual process, just like you are here in the sunshine. So if you are intelligent, you'll understand that the temperature in the sunshine and the temperature in the sun globe is different. So Brahman understanding is the lowest stage. Paramātmā understanding little higher. And Bhagavān understanding is complete. That is gradual. And these Māyāvādīs, they do not try to understand Kṛṣṇa. They are satisfied only with understanding Brahman. Therefore they fall down. Arūhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho 'nādṛta (SB 10.2.32). Because there is no standing. The impersonal feature, that the sky... Go very high in the sky, you do not see anymore this planet earth, neither you see anything, you'll be mad. Then you will find out how to go back again. You cannot stay there in that condition. Although they say "so'ham," no, you cannot stay there. Just imagine, if you go very high and you do not see any other thing, only sky. Will you be able to stay in that condition? You go in the sea. When you do not find anything, all water, you become very much anxious, "Where is land? Where is land?" And as soon as you have a glimpse of land, island, you become very, "Oh, there is land." So this is impersonal understanding. It is simply imagination, that simply by Brahman understanding he'll be happy. No, that is not possible.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, then even Brahman has to be understood in relationship to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Progress... The thing is that if you try progress vainly, what is the use of trying? If it is a fact you cannot change your destiny, so why should you try for that? Better... That is the... Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta. Therefore whatever energy you have got, you utilize it for understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Make it clear. Just like our society. We are, our main business is how to make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not very enthusiastic to open big, big factories and big, big money-earning machine. No. We are not interested. We'll be satisfied with the amount of happiness or distress, whatever we are destined. Let us utilize our energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the point. So the Vedic civilization is meant for realization of God. Viṣṇur aradhyate. So they try for that. And now, at the present moment.... Actually, the varṇāśrama-dharmi, they never tried for economic development. You'll find in India still, thousands of men taking bath in the Ganges. In the Kumbhamela... You have been in Kumbhamela?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: At the Kumbhamela millions of people are coming to take bathing in the Ganges because they are interested how to become liberated. They're not lazy. They're going thousands miles, two thousand miles away, to take bathing in the Prayāgaa. So they are not lazy. But they are not busy in the dog's race. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. Saṁyamī. He keeps night, he does not sleep. Others are sleeping. So similarly, the dogs and asses, they think that "They are not working." And they are working. The different platforms. So the Vedic civilization which is practiced in India... Now it is distorted, but actually, they are not lazy. They are very, very busy. Not only very, very busy, but from, they are trying to become self-realized from the very beginning of life. Kaumāraṁ...

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: "The Supreme Lord is situated as Paramātmā in everyone's heart and it is from Him that all activities are initiated. The living entity forgets everything of his past life, but he has to act according to the direction of the Supreme Lord, who is witness to all his work. Therefore he begins his work according to his past deeds. Required knowledge is supplied to him and remembrance is given to him and he forgets also about his past life. Thus the Lord is not only all-pervading, He is also localized in every individual heart. He awards the different fruitive results. He is not only worshipable as the impersonal Brahman, the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the localized Paramātmā, but as the form of the incarnation of the Vedas as well. The Vedas give the right direction to the people so that they can properly mold their lives and come back to Godhead, back to home. The Vedas offer knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation as Vyāsadeva is the compiler of the Vedānta-sūtra. The commentation of the Vedānta-sutra by Vyāsadeva in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives the real understanding of the Vedānta-sūtra. The Supreme Lord is so full that for the deliverance of the conditioned soul, He is the supplier and the digester of foodstuff, the witness of his activity, the giver of knowledge in the form of Vedas, and as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the teacher of the Bhagavad-gītā, He is worshipable by the conditioned soul. Thus God is all good, God is all-merciful. Anantaḥ praviṣṭaḥ śaṣṭa janānam. The living entity forgets as soon as he quits his present body, but he begins his work again initiated by the Supreme Lord. Although he forgets, the Lord gives him the intelligence to renew his work where he ended his last life. So not only does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the opportunity to understand Vedas from Him. If one is serious to understand the Vedic knowledge, then Kṛṣṇa gives the required intelligence. Why does he present the Vedic knowledge for understanding? Because a living entity individually needs to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedic literature confirms this. Yo'sau sarvair vedair gīyate. In all Vedic literature, beginning from the four Vedas, Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads and Purāṇas, the glories of the Supreme Lord are celebrated. By performing Vedic rituals, discussing the Vedic philosophy and worshiping the Lord in devotional service, He is attained. Therefore the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Kṛṣṇa. The Vedas give us direction to understand Kṛṣṇa and the process of understanding. The ultimate goal is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedānta-sūtra confirms this in the following words: tat tu samanvayāt. One can attain perfection by understanding Vedic literature, and one can understand his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by performing the different processes. Thus one can approach Him and at the end attain the supreme goal, who is no other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this verse, however, the purpose of the Vedas, the understanding of the Vedas, and the goal of the Vedas are clearly defined."

Prabhupāda: He clearly says, vedānta-kṛd. "I am the compiler of..." So why one should go to learn Vedānta from others?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the final knowledge. But if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then where is your knowledge? Knowledge, half-way knowledge is not knowledge. Complete knowledge. That complete knowledge is possible, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Those who are striving to acquire knowledge, such persons, after many, many births, when actually by the grace of God and by the grace of a devotee comes to the knowledge, then he agrees, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), everything is Kṛṣṇa." Sa mahātmā, that mahātmā, great soul is very rare to be found. Sudurlabhaḥ. Durlabhaḥ means very rare to be seen but the word is used sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare. So you cannot find such a mahātmā who understands clearly Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin... (BG 7.3).

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, mahājana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahājana. And later on, after Christ, there was so many other. Saint Matthew, Saint Thomas, like that. Mahājana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahājana? Mahājana means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahājana. Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahājana. And that means paramparā system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gītā directly from Kṛṣṇa. He's mahājana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you follow that. Then mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Then you are following the mahājana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said, mahājana, Svāyambhu. Svāyambhu means Brahmā, Lord Brahmā. So our, this sampradāya, Gauḍīya sampradāya, is Brahma-sampradāya. And Svāyambhu, Nārada. Nārada is also in the brahma-sampradāya. And Śambhu, Lord Śiva, he is also mahājana. He has got his sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. And similarly, Śrī-sampradāya. So all these sampradāya we must follow. Sampradāya vihina ye mantras te niṣphala mataḥ. If you do not belong to sampradāya, mahājana, then you are useless. You cannot concoct any religious system. So either you be Christian or Hindu it doesn't matter. You have to follow the mahājana. If a Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian he is? Similarly, it doesn't matter who is a mahā... But real mahājana is he who is strictly following the principle as enunciated by God. That is religious system. Otherwise there is no religion. There is no question of religion. It is simply concoction. Mano-dharmi, mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion. Religion is the order of Kṛṣṇa and one who follows that order, he is religious. That's all.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But if the Christians are saying that "This is the only platform, the Bible,

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is the way of śānti, understand Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme enjoyer, He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend for everyone. Accept Kṛṣṇa as your friend, you'll be happy. This is the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is very closely related to the last question. Question twenty. "What is your view regarding proselytization or preaching? If you are..."

Prabhupāda: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). In all forms of life, as many living entities are there, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ, I am the seed-giving father. So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslavakian, everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa? So it not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytization that "You are Christian, now you are Hindu." Or "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." "You are a sweeper, now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition, he's thinking otherwise than servant of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization that "You are Hindu, now you are Christian." Or "You are Christian, now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The same ignorance.

Prabhupāda: If you keep him in the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Hindu Muslim or Muslim Hindu? That was going on, "holy war," between Christians and the Muslims. Because both of them will die. (chuckles) And they are engaged in holy war. War, but "holy war." "Holy impiety." Artificial change of "ism" will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what is God. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization. (break)

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, no matter what material body you have, by material nature given you, one of the most predominating features of material life is pain. I want to address myself to this question, because in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we frequently face this problem. We have the pain of, for example, if you do tapasya, that's a pain to deprive your body of sense gratification. If you don't have sleep, you have to force yourself. If you have sickness, mental disturbances, so many things, then there's the other kind of pain.

Prabhupāda: That is being explained, that we don't want to stop sleeping, but minimize it. That is being already explained. We don't say complete negation. No. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. Simply sleep as little as possible. Not that to take, just like in the Western countries, they take sleeping as enjoyment. Is it not?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are being misused. They take Kṛṣṇa as debauch. They do not understand. Therefore the Kṛṣṇa's līlā with the gopīs, they are described in the Tenth Canto. That is also middle of Tenth Canto, and nine cantos required to understand Kṛṣṇa, beginning with janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So that is the Absolute Truth. These things should be discussed in the beginning. Then when one is fully convinced that Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with this material world, as Śaṅkarācārya said, nārāyaṇaḥ para avyaktāt, avyaktāt anna sambhava. This material world is a production... (break) It has to be purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When it is nirmalam, then it is first-class. The first process is nirmalam. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). This process is first-class. Not all of a sudden jump over. This literature, that is (indistinct), that should be kept in reserve for persons who are already liberated. Otherwise it will be misunderstood.

Indian man: Going back to this sense question, where do you think the scheme of art fits into Kṛṣṇa conscious life?

Prabhupāda: Art?

Indian man: Yes, like painting, or music, or literature, poetry, like that. Because the problem is that they, if one devotes oneself to these things, they are full-time things, they take all your energy and time. And so...

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No. There are Vedas, there are so many names described. Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa by studying Vedas, then he has not studied Vedas. It is very confidential. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15)? If one has studied Veda, but has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then his labor is useless. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). If one is actually jñānavān, then he (indistinct). Śaṅkarācārya said bhaja govindam, bhaja govindam. That is real knowledge. But if one says that in the Vedas, you don't find Kṛṣṇa's name, then he has not studied Veda. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The actual purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. If one has not understood Kṛṣṇa, then śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). They have simply labored for nothing.

Guest: Also this, another aspect was answered, the Vedic literature, all that we have today, is not a complete literature. We assume that perhaps some part of the literature has never been copied and was probably lost. So if His name doesn't occur in certain portion of Vedas, it doesn't mean that the name didn't occur in the Vedas. This is something that people have...

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa's name is very confidential. In the Atharva Veda, there is name, there is.... Jīva Gosvāmī has quoted from Atharva Veda. There is Kṛṣṇa's name. And this, the best scholar of Vedas, (indistinct) he says, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa, Śaṅkarācārya. Then other ācāryas they have supported Kṛṣṇa's teachings, just like Rāmānujācārya, and (indistinct) he has quoted Vedic quotation, every śloka. So one has to learn the real Vedas, then he'll find, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is mentioned," (Sanskrit). Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's name. But one must be actually scholar in Vedas, then he'll find, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is mentioned in the beginning, in the middle, and at the end."

Prabhupāda: So when you come to the standard of bhakti, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Unless you come to that stage, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, you will mistake. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This siddhi means to become liberated from the bodily concept of life. So out of many millions of people, one gets the opportunity of becoming siddha, brahma-bhūtaḥ, and yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). And those who are siddhas, liberated, out of many of them, kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ. So how this Mr. Bannerji will understand Kṛṣṇa? He is not a bhakta, he cannot understand. He can talk of the honey within the bottle. He cannot taste it. If he wants to taste, somebody must be able to open the bottle and give him little. Then he'll get. Otherwise, let him lick up the bottle. (laughter) That's all. So those who are licking the bottle, they cannot say what is the taste of the honey. One must actually taste. That is possible, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55), that taste is available by the bhaktas, not by the so-called scholars. That is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ. That is Vedic injunction. Na medhayā, na bahunā śrutena. You cannot realize self by your intelligence or by your learning or by your brain. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ na bahunā śrutena. So when the ātmā, Paramātmā, reveals Himself to somebody, he can understand. And that revelation is possible when you are a bhakta. Otherwise, it is not... It clearly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It never says "By brain, one can understand." Never says, "By speculation, one can understand." No, this is not the process. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). In the beginning, He said kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Those who are siddhas, already liberated, out of them, many, many, still, they are unable to understand, tattvataḥ, in truth. But here He says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only through bhakti one can understand in truth what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not possible. Because one is scholar he can understand Kṛṣṇa, that is not the fact.

Prabhupāda: He is Param Brahma, He is the supreme great. You study and then you will understand. But without understanding, if we take that He is also a human being, that is mistake. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto mama bhuta-maheśvaram (BG 9.11). "He does not know what is My background, he's a mūḍha." Therefore mūḍha, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. We should not remain a mūḍha; we should be intelligent to understand Kṛṣṇa. And that is possible only through bhakti. Kṛṣṇa specifically mentions, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). He never says, "By jñāna, yoga, karma, one can understand Me." No. Bhakti. Bhakto si, "You will understand, Arjuna, because you are My bhakta." That is first qualification to understand Kṛṣṇa. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). A bhakta is submissive. And nondevotees, they are not submissive. They are so proud that they say "I am Bhagavān, I am God." So that attitude will not help to understand. (Prabhupāda converses in Hindi with an Indian lady about how one does not have to renounce family life to understand Kṛṣṇa.) He says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He understands perfectly. There is no question of gṛhastha or sannyāsī. It is a question of understanding. And Arjuna is gṛhastha, politician, fighter, and still he is selected to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So gṛhastha. (Hindi) ...in gṛhastha life or sannyāsī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that, kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. (Hindi) I shall speak in English so that others.... Kibā vipra, whether one is a brāhmaṇa, kibā śūdra, or whether he is a śūdra, nyāsī kene naya, or whether he is a sannyāsī. That means whether he is a gṛhastha or brāhmaṇa, or.... There are eight varṇāśrama—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, whatever he may be, out of these eight categories.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa perfectly, he is guru. Just like Arjuna is our guru, but he's a gṛhastha, he's a soldier, he's a kṣatriya. He's neither brāhmaṇa nor sannyāsī nor Vedantist, nothing of the sort. But he knows Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is guru. So gṛhastha (Hindi). Śravaṇam, this is the first step of bhakti. Hear about Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise you will be misguided. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to go to a person where you can surrender. (Hindi)

Guest (3): How to...?

Prabhupāda: That we have to test, whether I can surrender to him. That we have to behave with him. Therefore according to system, one has to study that "Whether I can surrender to him?" If you think that "No, I know better than him," don't accept a formal guru. That is mistake. And guru also will see, "He's appealing to me, he is going to accept my discipleship, let me see whether he is qualified." Then there should be guru and śiṣya, not that as a fashion. Like Arjuna, Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru after talking with Him. Find out that verse, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.

Guest (3): Pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ.

Prabhupāda: When he was convinced that "I do not find anyone else to give me instruction," then he surrendered.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You can take Arjuna as guru. Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). He directly listened to Him. And he's guru therefore, because the guru is by the paramparā. So he understood Kṛṣṇa. So you take Arjuna's instruction. Make Arjuna your guru. What does he say? He accepts Kṛṣṇa, Param Brahman. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as Param Brahma. Where is the difficulty? Arjuna, by his direct experience talking with Kṛṣṇa, he understood Him that "Kṛṣṇa, you are Param Brahman." So you take the words of Arjuna and accept Him as Param Brahman. Where is the difficulty? Just like the same example, one lawyer giving example, the judgment of other court. That is accepted. So Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as Param Brahman. So why don't you accept? Where is the difficulty? You accept Arjuna as your guru, and whatever he says, you accept it. The difficulty is that we do not accept guru. That is the difficulty. Otherwise where is difficulty? Five thousand years, Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna, but what Arjuna understood, that is there. So you accept it. What we are doing? We are accepting. That's all. Kṛṣṇa said mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior truth beyond Me." We are accepting, that's all. Where is the difficulty? But if you do not accept, who can make you to accept? It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa therefore said mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. "You do it." He never forces him. He's God, He can force, "You must do it." No, he doesn't say "You do it." Not only that, He says yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), "Whatever you like, you do." What is that verse?

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall keep it dusty. If our heart is full of dust, cleanse it. That is intelligence. What is this, "My heart is dirty, let it be kept as dirty"? No, if it is dirty, cleanse it. It is the duty of every Indian to understand Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to others. That is real Indian business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that every one of you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to others who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. That is the injunction; that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. He said bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Anyone who has taken birth in India as a human being—not as dogs manuṣya, manuṣya means human—his duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and preach to the other people for welfare activities. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). We should mark this point, manuṣya-janma. He's not requesting the cats and dogs. So in other words, that those who are not taking, Indians... Bhagavad-gītā is known to everyone, every Indian knows. But if he does not preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is not to be counted as human being. Because He says manuṣya-janma haila yāra. If we claim to be human being, born in India, it is our duty to understand the value of life from Bhagavad-gītā and preach this cult to others to do real welfare activities. This is the duty of every Indian. Why Indians are lacking in their duty? They do not understand Kṛṣṇa and they do not understand how to do good to others. Now whatever is done is done. It is time, now that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is here, the temple is here, you come, you understand the whole philosophy and distribute. That is your duty. In New York City we can open many temples, provided you come.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is understanding. Arjuna is not a fool. He said, "Whatever You have said, I accept them as truth." That is real understanding. But as soon as you make amendment, then you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). There are so many rascals, they think "I don't believe in this, I don't believe in this." That is not understanding of Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian man (3): Does it mean that before we, or anybody, before he at all...

Prabhupāda: Before he, if... First of all he must know what is Kṛṣṇa. Then he will understand that what is Kṛṣṇa. That he will understand from Bhagavad-gītā by this beginning. And at the end Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Lord. So if you know that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord, then whatever He says is correct.

Indian man (3): That means the first thing is to accept Kṛṣṇa as God, and then...

Prabhupāda: Not blindly.

Indian man (3): Not blindly.

Prabhupāda: Not blindly. But you must know... Just like if you accept the government, and the government orders, "This man should be hanged," you have to accept it. You cannot protest that "The government has ordered this man should be hanged. It should be protested." And who will care for your protest? Government is government. You cannot criticize. You may criticize on account of your less intelligence, but government order is all. Is it not? If government orders that "This man should be hanged," can you say anything against it? It will not be accepted. Similarly, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, then as Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Unless you understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's personality, you will try to weight the strength of His words, the value of His words. But if you understand other statement... Just like Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), "I am the supreme authority." So if He is the supreme authority, then whatever He has said, it is all right. But if you have doubt about He's supreme authority, then you will find out His fault. That is the defect. So if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the supreme authority..."

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Unless one is intelligent class, belonging to the in..., he cannot understand. So we don't expect that everyone is intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaja se baḍa catura. Unless one is very intelligent, he cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious, because it is a different subject matter. People are engrossed with the bodily concept of life. It is beyond that. So dull brain cannot understand what is beyond this body. So you cannot expect that everyone will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible.

Interviewer: There has been a lot of talk of genetic perfection of mankind, or, say, attempting a genetic perfection.

Prabhupāda: What is genetic?

Interviewer: What is genetic perfection?

Bali-mardana: We were discussing yesterday about the science of genetics. They try to understand the traits, how the body and mind are formed, and then try to change it.

Prabhupāda: That we have already... Where is that book?

Rāmeśvara: Svarūpa Dāmodara's book.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bring.

Rāmeśvara: Well, what is your question?

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: "As stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, Lord Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. No one is greater than Him; He is the cause of all causes. Here it is also stated by the Lord personally that He is the cause of all the demigods and the sages. Even the demigods and great sages cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They can neither understand His name nor His personality, so what is the position of the so-called scholars of this tiny planet? No one can understand why the Supreme God comes to earth as an ordinary human being and executes such commonplace and yet wonderful activities. One should know, then, that scholarship is not the qualification necessary to understand Kṛṣṇa. Even the demigods and the great sages have tried to understand Kṛṣṇa by their mental speculation, and they have failed to do so. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is stated clearly that even the great demigods are not able to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They can speculate to the limits of their imperfect senses and can reach the opposite conclusion of impersonalism, of something not manifested by the three qualities of material nature. Or they can imagine something by mental speculation. But it is not possible to understand Kṛṣṇa by such foolish speculation. Here the Lord indirectly says that if anyone wants to know the Absolute Truth, 'Here I am, present as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I am the Supreme.' One should know this. Although one cannot understand the inconceivable Lord who is personally present, He nonetheless exists. We can actually understand Kṛṣṇa who is eternal, full of bliss and knowledge, simply by studying His words in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The impersonal Brahman can be conceived by persons who are already in the inferior energy of the Lord, but the Personality of Godhead cannot be conceived unless one is in the transcendental position. Because most men cannot understand Kṛṣṇa in His actual situation, out of His causeless mercy He descends to show favor to such speculators. Yet despite the Supreme Lord's uncommon activities, these speculators, due to contamination in the material energy, still think that the impersonal Brahman is the Supreme. Only the devotees who are fully surrendered unto the Supreme Lord can understand, by the grace of the Lord, that He is Kṛṣṇa. The devotees of the Lord do not bother about the impersonal Brahman conception of God. Their faith and devotion bring them to surrender immediately unto the Supreme Lord, and out of the causeless mercy of Kṛṣṇa, they can understand Kṛṣṇa. No one else can understand Him. So even great sages agree, 'What is ātmā? What is the Supreme? It is He whom we have to worship.' "

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Preaching is required, here or there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You once said, "A good businessman, if he knows how to do it, he can make more money sitting in one place..."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Money is not our aim. Our aim is how people will understand Kṛṣṇa.

Bali-mardana: He is just using that as an analogy for preaching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That if you have a good place, many people can be attracted, as many as moving around to many places.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja was in favor of preaching in the city because you can get many men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But do you think I should travel a lot, or what is the best thing?

Prabhupāda: Both things should be done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Both. So if you... We were hoping that you could give us another chance by coming back next year.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I'll come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you do say that to a lot of different temples, but we will try to make this doubly big.

Prabhupāda: Always, so long I live, I must come.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not possible for us. We welcome. But we must be well organized to utilize these poor souls for becoming first-class devotees. That should be done. Otherwise, sex life and the by-product, that is always troublesome, either you take this way or that way, it is troublesome. If it is not troublesome, why they are killing their own children? To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry, remain brahmacārī. If you cannot, then, all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaiṣṇavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society, we welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents. Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacārī gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch... In this way, they should be always engaged. Then they'll be trained up. Simple thing. We don't want to train them as big grammarians. No. That is not wanted. That anyone, if he has got some inclination, he can do it personally. There is no harm. General training is that he must be a devotee, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That should be introduced. Otherwise, the gurukula will be... Otherwise Jyotirmayī was suggesting the biology. What they'll do with biology? Don't introduce unnecessary nonsense things. Simple life. Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply let them be convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is our duty to serve Him, that's all. Huh? (indistinct) What is that? māyār bośe, jāccho bhese' Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi jīv kṛṣṇa-dās ei biśwās korle to ār duḥkho nāi. So organize. If you have got sufficient place, sufficient scope, let them be trained up very nicely. If some four, five centers like this there are in Europe, the whole face will be changed. Important places like Germany, France, England. Now we are getting place. I like that place, German, on account of this. It has got scope.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikārī. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jñānī, he does not know. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. The so-called jñānī, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jñānī. His jñāna, his knowledge, is lacking. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

If one jñānī is impersonalist, he's not jñānī. He is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. He does not know. Therefore it will take many, many births to come to the understanding of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore he's not jñānī, he's claiming to be jñānī. Such jñānī will take many hundreds of births to come to the position of real jñānī. Find out this bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). So-called jñānī, after many, many births, when he understands Kṛṣṇa and surrenders to Him, then he's jñānī. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyāsīs in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: Moustafa asked a question, how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness in this country. It seems difficult to him, because the people's reaction... It's very foreign, the outward appearance of devotees is very strange to them. He wants to know how this philosophy can be spread here.

Prabhupāda: The first thing is that what do you mean by Kṛṣṇa. That is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa means God. So if you have no objection to chant the name of God, then there is no difference of opinions. Now first of all, I may ask you, "What do you mean by God?" You are chanting the holy name of God, and people may ask you, "What do you mean by God?" Because especially nowadays... (aside) No, there is matches? That's all. Come near. So first question will be, "What do you mean by God?" If I, or anybody, asks you, "What do you mean by God?"

Moustafa: I cannot explain, because now...

Prabhupāda: But that you must explain. If you are chanting the name of God, then you must know what do you mean by God.

Moustafa: When I feel, I will get spiritual, my feeling...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual, what do you mean by spiritual?

Moustafa: It means I put everything that is bad and dirty inside and I make it out, all of them.

Prabhupāda: What is inside and what is outside?

Moustafa: Outside? I don't know what is inside.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, purport. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Purport: "The Supreme Lord is situated as Paramātmā in everyone's heart, and it is from Him that all activities are initiated. The living entity forgets everything of his past life, but he has to act according to the direction of the Supreme Lord, who is witness to all his work. Therefore he begins his work according to his past deeds. Required knowledge is supplied to him, and remembrance is given to him, and he forgets, also, about his past life. Thus, the Lord is not only all-pervading; He is also localized in every individual heart. He awards the different fruitive results. He is not only worshipable as the impersonal Brahman, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the localized Paramātmā, but as the form of the incarnation of the Vedas as well. The Vedas given the right direction to the people so that they can properly mold their lives and come back to Godhead, back to home. The Vedas offer knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa in His incarnation as Vyāsadeva is the compiler of the Vedānta-sūtra. The commentation on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyāsadeva in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives the real understanding of Vedānta-sūtra. The Supreme Lord is so full that for the deliverance of the conditioned soul He is the supplier and digester of foodstuff, the witness of his activity, the giver of knowledge in the form of Vedas and, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the teacher of the Bhagavad-gītā. He is worshipable by the conditioned soul. Thus God is all-good; God is all-merciful. Antaḥ-praviṣṭaḥ śāstā janānām. The living entity forgets as soon as he quits his present body, but he begins his work again, initiated by the Supreme Lord. Although he forgets, the Lord gives him the intelligence to renew his work where he ended in his last life. So not only does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the opportunity to understand Vedas from him. If one is serious to understand the Vedic knowledge, then Kṛṣṇa gives the required intelligence. Why does He present the Vedic knowledge for understanding? Because a living entity individually needs to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vedic literature confirms this: yo 'sau sarvair vedair gīyate. In all Vedic literature, beginning from the four Vedas, Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads and Purāṇas, the glories of the Supreme Lord are celebrated. By performing Vedic rituals, discussing the Vedic philosophy and worshiping the Lord in devotional service, He is attained. Therefore the purpose of the Vedas is to understand Kṛṣṇa. The Vedas give us direction to understand Kṛṣṇa and the process of understanding. The ultimate goal is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedānta-sūtra confirms this in the following words: tat tu samanvayāt. One can attain perfection by understanding Vedic literature, and one can understand his relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead by performing the different processes. Thus one can approach Him and at the end attain the supreme goal, who is no other than the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In this verse, however, the purpose of the Vedas, the understanding of the Vedas and the goal the Vedas are clearly defined."

Prabhupāda: Veda means the book of knowledge. So any book of knowledge which gives you direction how to understand God and how to love Him, that is perfect.

Prabhupāda: So ritualistic ceremonies, Vedic ritualistic ceremonies. Everywhere there are some ritualistic ceremony. So when you go above this... Just like Kṛṣṇa says in another place, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. By performing the Vedic ritualistic ceremony, the ultimate goal is to understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you may not perform this ritualistic ceremony. Because you have come to the objective. Not before that. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Vedic ritualistic ceremony is that if you perform this yajña, then you go to the heavenly planet and there you'll get so long life, ten thousands of years, you get nice woman, and so on, so on. People are after that, karma-kāṇḍa. So this karma-kāṇḍa is required so long one is unaware of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands this karma-kāṇḍa elevation is not the aim of our life, our real aim of life how to go back home, back to Godhead, then these things are not required. Just like we have no ritualistic ceremony, we have simply devotional service. We have no ritualistic ceremony. There are so many things ritualistic. And we are performing only this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, mahā-mantra. Therefore the smārta brāhmaṇas, they misunderstand. They do not admit that they have become elevated. The Jagannātha temple does not allow. But when one becomes a pure Vaiṣṇava, then tepus tapas te juhuvuḥ sasnur āryā (SB 3.33.7). He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically. Lord such-and-such, he's traveling in a third-class compartment with a bag for marketing. But so long he was viceroy, oh, so much honor, so much prestige. So where is that prestige now? These ritualistic ceremonies are like that. For more years you become viceroy, and then again fall down. That is your Nixon. What is the position of Nixon now? He is ordinary man. That's all.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong? They'll say "We have got different meaning of Kṛṣṇa" All the sages, all the saintly persons, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he immediately accepted Kṛṣṇa: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have spoken, I take it altogether as it is." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). All fact. And they are manufacturing some meaning. How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But I do not know what wonderful. I do not know any magic. I simply say that you accept Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. That is my magic. And they are accepting it. They are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They do not make any interpretation, that "Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this, Pāṇḍavas means this." No. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You have seen our Bhagavad-gītā? That's all. (break) Before this, before this movement I started ten years ago, so many swamis, philosophers came in the Western country. Not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is our challenge. And now you'll find thousands and thousands. Because, what is secret? "As it is," that's all. No change.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all you have to understand. So Kṛṣṇa is explained Himself, "I am this." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." We accept it. Why you accept another authority to understand Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So there is no difficulty as it is. But we create difficulty. If somebody asks me, "Where is your nose?" if I say, "Here is my nose." And if I say, "No here," (laughter) then it is difficulty. If I say directly, "Here is my nose," then there will be no difficulty. But if I want to do like this, then it is difficulty. There is no difficulty. We have created difficulty. That is our folly. Therefore there is no result. That is the present position, that we have created difficulty in understanding Bhagavad-gītā and we Indians are now practically out of our own culture.

Mrs. Sahani: Those who don't understand Kṛṣṇa, it's difficult for them.

Prabhupāda: How he will understand? He creates difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the supreme authority," and the person who heard from Kṛṣṇa, he says paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramam (BG 10.12). He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, Arjuna. And why we deviate? The speaker says that He is the supreme authority, and the listener, Arjuna, accepts Him. Now why we interpret? What right you have got interpretation?

Mrs. Sahani: We interpret it according to our own design.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is giving direction, but we have no such intelligence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises:

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

You go to a person who has seen the truth and you understand. Because they are not understanding Kṛṣṇa directly or through the agent, they are misled, they are misinterpreting. That is their folly. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa directly, neither they'll understand through Kṛṣṇa's agent. Therefore they are misguided.

Mrs. Sahani: But is it possible to understand Kṛṣṇa directly?

Prabhupāda: No. You can if you are intelligent enough. Otherwise, everyone can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He says directly everyone. He's not saying to Arjuna: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Why don't you do it? Because you cannot understand it. If you understood, you have done it immediately. But you do not understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa-tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā upadekṣyanti (BG 4.34)—you have to understand through the person who tatva-darśinaḥ, who has seen Kṛṣṇa. Tattva-darśi, not theoretical. You have to approach such person, then he will show you, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." But if you don't follow the instruction in Bhagavad-gītā directly or indirectly.... Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if you do not do that and because you may not understand Kṛṣṇa.... But Kṛṣṇa also says tad viddhi praṇipātena... You do not go to a seer, then how you'll understand Kṛṣṇa? You do not understand directly or indirectly. Then you are hopeless.

Mrs. Sahani: If you don't understand Kṛṣṇa directly...

Prabhupāda: Neither indirectly. If you don't understand directly, you should go to a person who understands Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't do either of these things, then how you'll understand Kṛṣṇa?

Mrs. Sahani: But how to, because in India there's so many...

Prabhupāda: Don' talk of India; at any place.

Mrs. Sahani: Any place, yes. But how do we be sure that this person knows Kṛṣṇa?

Atreya Ṛṣi: How can she be sure that the spiritual master is bona fide?

Prabhupāda: If when you see that he does not speak anything except Kṛṣṇa, that is tattva-darśi. If you are expert businessman in certain line, you have no other business than to talk with on that line. Suppose if you are to purchase some gold, then you have to go to the gold market for dealing with gold. Why should we go to the ice market? That is your ignorance. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then you have to know from the persons who are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. They have no other business. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We're writing books, so many books for Kṛṣṇa. We are preaching and going country to country. We simple deal with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the movement is known as "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Somebody suggested "Why don't you write 'God consciousness'?" No, if I say "God consciousness," they'll bring so many gods. It is very simple. If we take it seriously, then benefit is there. But if we hesitate, it is our misfortune.

Prabhupāda: If when you see that he does not speak anything except Kṛṣṇa, that is tattva-darśi. If you are expert businessman in certain line, you have no other business than to talk with on that line. Suppose if you are to purchase some gold, then you have to go to the gold market for dealing with gold. Why should we go to the ice market? That is your ignorance. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then you have to know from the persons who are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. They have no other business. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are dealing with Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We're writing books, so many books for Kṛṣṇa. We are preaching and going country to country. We simple deal with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the movement is known as "Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Somebody suggested "Why don't you write 'God consciousness'?" No, if I say "God consciousness," they'll bring so many gods. It is very simple. If we take it seriously, then benefit is there. But if we hesitate, it is our misfortune.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

To understand Kṛṣṇa is not a joke. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu-out of millions and millions of persons, kaścid yatati siddhaye, one may try for perfection of life. And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), and out of many such persons who have attained perfection, kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, somebody may know. So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. But Kṛṣṇa personally comes and teaches about Himself, and still if we do not take, that is our misfortune. If we still interpret, misinterpret rather, then it is our misfortune. What can be done? We should, those who are Indians, Bhāratavarsi, we have got a particular duty. Bhārata bhūmite haila manuṣya janma yāra (CC Adi 9.41). One who has taken birth as a human being in India, he should make his life perfect and distribute the knowledge. So you are outside India, you make your life perfect and distribute this knowledge. This is the duty of Indians. Why outside India they should remain in darkness? Distribute the knowledge. But unless you make your life perfect, how you can distribute?

Prabhupāda: Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). This is understanding. "Now my illusion is gone," naṣṭo mohaḥ. Smṛtir labdhā. "I am in my original consciousness." So what you'll do? Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. "You are asking to me to fight? I shall do it." Everything is explained. Kṛṣṇa gives you freedom, yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). And one who understands Kṛṣṇa, he says, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. That's it. Not by interpretation, or refuse by interpretation. That is not Kṛṣṇa's... Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. This is understanding. Otherwise simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). If you like, you can waste your time. And find out this verse, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69), ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Find that verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati.

Pradyumna: What's the first word?

Hari-śauri: Jayanam.

Prabhupāda: Read, after sixty-fourth verse, read all the verses.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Pradyumna: "Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion."

Prabhupāda: So understand Kṛṣṇa like Arjuna. Then Kṛṣṇa is there, Arjuna is there, and all victory is there.

Mrs. Sahani: Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa can become Arjuna? Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: He's like Arjuna. He's like Arjuna. What is Arjuna's qualification? He surrendered, and he says kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). You become also Arjuna-like.

Mrs. Sahani: And the victory is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then victory is there. But if one can avoid Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, then where is victory?

Mrs. Sahani: Victory.

Prabhupāda: Victory, any man you can say victory. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is victory.

Mr. Sahani: But we don't want to go and fight like Arjuna, go out and kill people.

Prabhupāda: Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.

Harikeśa: "The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogis and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters. Go on.

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of all causes, the primeval Lord Govinda.

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

It is very difficult for the nondevotees to know Him. Although nondevotees declare that the path of bhakti, or devotional service, is very easy, they cannot practice it. If the path of bhakti is so easy, as the nondevotee class of men proclaim, then why do they take up the difficult path? Actually, the path of bhakti is not easy. The so-called path of bhakti practiced by unauthorized persons without knowledge of bhakti may be easy, but when it is practiced factually, according to the rules and regulations, the speculative scholars and philosophers fall away from the path. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī writes in his Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-

pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā

aikāntikī harer bhaktir

utpātāyaiva kalpate

(Brs. 1.2.101)

'Devotional service of the Lord that ignores the authorized Vedic literatures like the Upaniṣads, Purāṇas, Nārada Pañcarātra, etc., is simply an unnecessary disturbance in society.' It is not possible for the Brahman realized impersonalist or the Paramātmā realized yogi to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the son of Mother Yaśodā or the charioteer of Arjuna. Even the great demigods are sometimes confused about Kṛṣṇa: muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ, māṁ tu veda na kaścana. 'No one knows Me as I am,' the Lord says. And if one does know Him, then sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, 'Such a great soul is very rare.' Therefore unless one practices devotional service to the Lord, he cannot know Kṛṣṇa as He is (tattvataḥ), even though one is a great scholar or philosopher. Only the pure devotees can know something of the inconceivable transcendental qualities in Kṛṣṇa, in the cause of all causes, in His omnipotence and opulence, and in His wealth, fame, strength, beauty, knowledge and renunciation, because Kṛṣṇa is benevolently inclined to His devotees. He is the last word in Brahman realization, and the devotees alone can realize Him as He is.

Prabhupāda: 'No one can understand Kṛṣṇa as He is by the blunt material senses. But He reveals Himself to the devotees, being pleased with them for their transcendental loving service unto Him.' (Padma Purāṇa)"

Prabhupāda: (loud chanting from mosques and singing in background) These words, aja, what is the meaning of this?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Allah, "God is great, God is great, God is great." "God is greater than can be ever described. I accept and witness that God is one and there is no other partner, or any..."

Prabhupāda: Competitor.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: "...competitor to Him. I witness that Muhammad is the prophet of God, is the..."

Prabhupāda: Representative.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: "...representative of God. I witness and accept Ali as Muhammad's representative."

Prabhupāda: Who is Ali?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Ali is representative of Muhammad. He is...

Pradyumna: Son of Muhammad.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This azan is an invitation for namaz, glorification of God. He is...

Prabhupāda: Inviting everyone, come.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Inviting everyone to come and sing and glorify God.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, (Hindi), manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So they are not interested. They are simply interested with eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Then? You were telling, that "First of all, let us become rich like Americans, then we shall talk of Kṛṣṇa." When they go to preach about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the people say that "We shall think of Kṛṣṇa later on." In India also they say. that "We are now poverty-stricken. Let us first of all become rich, and then we shall think of Kṛṣṇa." They say like that. They are not interested. They think to become rich is more than understanding Kṛṣṇa. That is the position. Therefore they are not interested. They say frankly that "We are not interested, why do you bother us?" they say. "Why do you bother us? Why do you come here to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" How much difficult it is you can just understand. They are not ready to hear about it, and our leaders say, "All the śāstras now throw away in the water."

Mrs. Patel: Do you think the deep-rooted Indian culture and religion will ever have a sort of a re-creation, or will it continue?

Prabhupāda: Continue, because if you remain like animals, it will continue. If you become human being actually, then it will stop. But we want to continue as animals. That is the present position. The present civilization is very strong animal platform.

Prabhupāda: No, you have got... You can become free. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti...

Indian Doctor: Bhakti-avyabhicāriṇī. I have got that tendency, bhakti, avyabhicāriṇī-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No, no, simply to know Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena ya... So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). So without bhakti there is no possibility to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you'll become free from this process of accepting material body.

Indian Doctor: Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66).

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is only business, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious and avoid this botheration of repeating body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is there. If you want to stop dehāntara-prāptiḥ, then you have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no other way. But if you think that it is very pleasure to enter within the womb of mother and accept one body, and again come out and again work, and again die, and again enter. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). If you want this business, that is your choice. You can do it. But if you want to stop it, then this is the only way. Therefore śāstra says na sādhu manye. It is not good. Nūnam, read that verse.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, why? Kṛṣṇa book must be there, in the book must be there.

Acyutānanda: But in public...

Prabhupāda: But you should go gradually. You should go gradually. You first of all understand Kṛṣṇa, then kṛṣṇa-līlā. If you have not understood Kṛṣṇa, then you'll think Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā is just like we mix with young women. And that becomes as polluted. Because they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Kṛṣṇa understanding so easy? If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa how can you go to the Kṛṣṇa's confidential activities?

Acyutānanda: Some of the devotees, they said that it is for liberated souls. So they said, "Well, we are all liberated."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Liberated for going to hell.

Devotee: In your Kṛṣṇa book, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you've given such clear explanations along with the stories of Kṛṣṇa that it's very difficult to misinterpret, because you use such clear explanation.

Prabhupāda: No, you read all the books first of all. Then you'll be able to understand.

Yaśomatīnandana: Even theoretical understanding that Kṛṣṇa is transcendental will not help unless one...

Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa will lift, samaste, Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill. Now how you can become equal with Kṛṣṇa?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what about if some devotees, I know they want to come to Vṛndāvana...

Prabhupāda: Every devotee, they must follow the rules and regulations, that's all.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: First of all, first of all, you must know what is Veda. Vedas, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedic knowledge means to understand Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, to understand Him. That is Bhagavad-gītā. So if you accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, the whole Vedas are accepted. Because purpose of Veda is to understand Kṛṣṇa. And that Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself—"I'm like this." So where is the difficulty to understand Vedas?

Commissioner: May I explain to you what we have, we are doing, Swamiji? In the religious we have now taken statistics of our veda-paṇḍitas. There are three hundred of them. Now they have said they don't want to come out of their villages. We have said wherever they are, in their own village, for one or two hours, they meet, chant the Veda in the temple or the village.

Prabhupāda: They'll not do that.

Commissioner: They are now willing to.

Prabhupāda: There may be some percentage. If you do not accept the recognized process... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was a great scholar. So He was chanting and dancing. So some of the sannyāsīs, Māyāvādī sannyāsīs in Benares... (to servant:) You keep it there, they will take. There was a meeting, and the question was that "You are a sannyāsī..." This question was put to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "You have taken sannyāsa, you do not read Vedānta, and you are mixing with the sentimental persons, chanting and dancing. What is this?" This was the question. So He explained that, "Yes, My Guru Mahārāja found Me a great rascal." Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). You understand Bengali? No. "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a rascal number one. Therefore he has chastised Me." What is that? Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. "He has said that 'You are rascal, you cannot read Vedas and Vedānta. You are rascal. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So I'm doing that."

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead."

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Krishna Modi: That is Blitz.

Prabhupāda: Oh. It is new?

Hari-śauri: No, this is the first article.

Krishna Modi: And second article also they have given.

Hari-śauri: Yes, there's another one.

Krishna Modi: Blitz has given second article also.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is not possible. And so long one is in the bodily concept of life, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this, I am that," and all of them go to the United Nation assembly... So what is the difference when a dog thinks that "I am dog, I am this dog." And an American or Indian thinks "I am a..." Where is the difference? So as American, as Indian, as German, as Chinese, if they go there, they remain animal, and how there can be peace? That is not possible. And the peace formula is given by Kṛṣṇa. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). When one understands Kṛṣṇa is suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. That is śāntim. So if you keep them as Americans, or Indians, or this or that, how there can be peace?

Hari-śauri: That was front page.

Indian man: (laughs) He's here to hound us. (laughs) (Hindi) (reading from paper) "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is here to save us from a dog's life." (laughter) "He's here to save us from a dog's life. For unless we can get some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality."

Hari-śauri: This was the New York Ratha-yātrā. This was in New York Times.

Indian man: The Ratha-yātrā is held on 7th Avenue... (several talking at once)

Prabhupāda: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."

Hari-śauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So in this connection, the statement of Bhāgavatam, is especially important. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahman is impersonal, Paramātmā is localized, and Bhagavān is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Supreme Personality of Godhead...

Pradyumna: Brahman is the impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Brahman is impersonal. Not "the." Paramātmā is localized, and Bhagavān is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa as follows. Quote this, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12). Find out. No. Find out in the book.

Pradyumna:

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma

pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān

puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam

ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum

(BG 10.12)

Prabhupāda: Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam...

Pradyumna: Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: "When Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he addressed Kṛṣṇa as follows, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12), etc. Here Kṛṣṇa addresses... Here Arjuna addresses Kṛṣṇa as śāśvataṁ puruṣam or the eternal Personality of Godhead. It is never admitted that the Supreme Lord is originally impersonal."

Prabhupāda: Then, you read the other verses. Param...

Pradyumna:

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma

pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān

puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam

ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum

(BG 10.12)

Prabhupāda: Then?

Pradyumna: Āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve devarṣir nāradas tathā.

Prabhupāda: You have to quote this. Then? Read.

Pradyumna: Translation?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That you have to give a quotation and, then? What is next verse.

Pradyumna: In Bhagavad-gītā after this?

Prabhupāda: Āhus tvām, then next, what is next verse.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact.

Doctor: Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).

Prabhupāda: But because I do not like, therefore Upaniṣads give another chance, that "Chant oṁkāra." That is the way. Because unless one is completely purified, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ

janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām

te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā

bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ

(BG 7.28)

Kṛṣṇa bhajana is possible when one is completely free from all kinds of sinful activities. So not every one is freed from sinful activities. Therefore the indirect way. Otherwise, Upaniṣad is Veda.

Doctor: Based on Vedas. Right.

Prabhupāda: Based. Kṛṣṇa says vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). By studying Vedas, Upaniṣads, if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, that means your study is not complete. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After studying this indirect information of Kṛṣṇa, when one is actually a learned, wise man, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). That is very rarely found. This is fact. So if one is intelligent, that if only the most intelligent person, after many, many births one has to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, why not do it immediately? Why shall I wait for many, many births? That is intelligence.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is intelligence. But that intelligence is not possible for ordinary persons. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. One who gets this intelligence, such kind of mahātmā, is very, very rarely found. To take it immediately, ah, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). That is very difficult.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

It is not so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa or to accept Kṛṣṇa as all in all. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam. But if you take it, you are fortunate.

Doctor: And the only way to attain is reciting the name.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Do that. Therefore the temple is there. Everyone may come and see Kṛṣṇa and think of Him. What is the difficulty? But he'll not come. He has concluded Kṛṣṇa is nirākāra. God is nirākāra.

Doctor: Then Kṛṣṇa will not come.

Prabhupāda: Well now, Kṛṣṇa... You... Whatever you think, that is your business, but Kṛṣṇa is there everywhere.

Doctor: He is nirākāra and sākāra.

Prabhupāda: No. There is ācārya, and there are fools also. Ācārya is there, and fools are there also. The agnostics are there. They will not accept any ācārya. You accept some ācārya. Why you become skeptic? At least, we have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme ācārya. Why don't you accept Him? If you are embarrassed whom to select ācārya, so who can be better ācārya than Kṛṣṇa? Why don't you accept Him? That means you want to avoid under some plea. Otherwise there is ācārya. If you don't believe in other ācārya, you take at least Kṛṣṇa who is accepted by all the ācāryas. Either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, or anyone, will they not accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme teacher? Whole world is understanding Kṛṣṇa is the supreme teacher. At least at the present moment they are accepting. We are selling our books daily five to six lakhs' worth, only these Kṛṣṇa consciousness books. And in our country we do not accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme ācārya. What is this? That is our misfortune. Kṛṣṇa is recognized ācārya. There is no doubt about it.

Indian man (7): Sir, (Hindi?)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa also says, ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). Ācārya and Kṛṣṇa-identical. Who is ācārya? Who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he is ācārya. Ācārya means one who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. That is ācārya.

Indian man (4): Because Kṛṣṇa never wrote any book...

Prabhupāda: He spoke.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Now, to become little more advanced, let them act as Kṛṣṇa's servant. Kṛṣṇa came to speak this truth, that "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). He appeared to speak this philosophy. And if you do the same work, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," then you are serving the mission of Kṛṣṇa, great service to Kṛṣṇa. The words for which He appeared on this earth, if you simply carry these words door to door, village to village, man to man, then you become a guru, a real guru. Not to pose yourself a guru without any knowledge of Kṛṣṇa. That is cheating. And to accept and understand Kṛṣṇa the Supreme thoroughly and preach these words, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead," is the supreme success of life. What is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? I have to bring all these young men from Europe and America to speak to you this truth. Why our young men is not coming to speak this truth? Hm? What is the difficulty? That means willfully they are denying the success of life. Willfully. Then what can be done? If somebody willfully commits suicide, who can save him? This is our position at the present moment. The Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu: "I have drunk poison knowingly." So if somebody knowingly drinks poison, then who can save him? So we are doing that. Without preaching the gospel of Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are drinking poison willfully. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The point is that... You can explain in this way, that goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka planet which is far, far away from our planet, but still He is everywhere. That is the difference. That you cannot imagine. In our material knowledge you cannot imagine that. But that is the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aśnāmi: (BG 9.26) "Anyone offering Me in devotion patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, I eat." Now, Kṛṣṇa is living far, far away in the Goloka planet. How He can eat? That is your imagining. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, I do." That is Kṛṣṇa. Although He is far, far away, He is within your heart. That you cannot imagine, how it is possible. That is your material knowledge. But you have to accept from the statement of śāstra that although He is far, far away, within your heart. Aṇḍāntara-stha-para... He is within the atom also. So that you cannot imagine. That requires a different knowledge, Vedic knowledge. The material knowledge will not help you, but you cannot imagine. You have to accept Vedic knowledge. What is stated in the Vedas, that you have to accept. That's all. Otherwise there is no possibility. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's activities you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot manufacture your knowledge. That is not... Because you are defective—your senses are imperfect—so whatever knowledge you get through your senses, that is all imperfect. You cannot get perfect knowledge by your imperfect senses. That is not possible. Therefore the Vedic injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn that transcendental science you have to approach a guru who knows it.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Śāstra? Śāstra means it is authorized. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is śāstra because it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Therefore all the ācāryas, they accept it. Still the ācārya-sampradāyas are there. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śaṅkara, they accept all this. And at the time of...

Guest (2): Do you accept the supremacy of the Vedas, veda-pramāṇam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). And if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then you do not know what is Veda. Your knowledge of Vedas will be accepted when you understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you do not know what Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of taking so much trouble to study Vedas? You do not know anything. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

Dr. Ramachandra: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti.

Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. That is knowledge.

Dr. Ramachandra: Sa mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā. If you do not know vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), śrama eva hi kevalam: (SB 1.2.8) simply you have labored hard. That's all. You have gained nothing. And if you understood Vāsudeva, then you understood everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati.

Dr. Ramachandra: How do you explain vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi?

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you first of all learn Sanskrit, then you (indistinct). If there is (indistinct). This practice should be stopped. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, and if you want to preach your own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, don't do this preaching. You preach your philosophy, your (indistinct). You can preach any philosophy you like, but don't take Bhagavad-gītā and (indistinct) on it. (?) That is my (indistinct). That is being done. That is being done. So therefore, instead of studying, collecting so many literatures, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach? And as evidence to prove he is (indistinct) ...all over the world. Before me for 200 years there was preaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Not a single person became... It is the history of (indistinct). Now you see thousands. Why? Because there is no interpretation. There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are presenting, "Here is God." You are searching after God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are accepting. They do not (indistinct), what is Kṛṣṇa. What is this? How they are accepting? Because it is the real thing, there is no interpretation. They are not Hindus, they are not born in India. How they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? They have given up bad habits, no illicit sex. Because you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless you are free from all sinful activities. Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham. "Now I don't want to talk or argue with You," because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru from the same level. Whatever guru says you have to accept. Otherwise don't accept guru. Don't make a fashion of taking guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all. "I have surrendered to you." This is the first instance (instruction?). That means whatever He says, and at last He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14). This is... Not that you make cut cut.(?) That is the process. Here is the paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is speaking Arjuna and Arjuna is accepting, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14). This is... Not that you make cut-cut (?). "Whatever You have said." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). "You have said that You are the Supreme, paraṁ brahma. I accept it." This is paramparā. So we have not seen Kṛṣṇa talking, but the words are there. So Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the paraṁ brahma. How we have change of, "Kṛṣṇa is..."? So first of all we have to accept by the paramparā system. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. That paramparā is now gone, Kṛṣṇa says, therefore I am speaking to you again age-old-system. Not that new. Purāṇa. And now you take. How Arjuna is accepting? Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). (Hindi) That is not Bhagavad-gītā understanding. You take paramparā system, you try to understand Kṛṣṇa as Arjuna has understood. That is bhakti. Otherwise it is (indistinct). There is no meaning. But if anyone has accepted the paramparā system as Arjuna has understood then he can speak on Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise he has no right to speak anything. That is paramparā.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But All India conference, it is not for mass understanding. Kṛṣṇa said yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ. Śreṣṭhaḥ means the leaders of society. Rājarṣayo. Not ordinary persons. Rāja, he must be just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Lord Rāmacandra, Mahārāja Ambarīṣa. They are rājarṣi. They are saintly persons, but they are governor. Such persons should understand. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ tad tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha person understands Bhagavad-gītā, it is not for the mass of people.

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all one has to become siddha. And not only you become siddha, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), even one is siddha it is very difficult for him to understand-tattvataḥ. What Kṛṣṇa means, to understand, it is not so easy job. And again He said, He explains that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Only the devotees can understand. It is not the business of the karmīs, jñānīs, yogis. He has strictly specified-bhaktyā. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si. When He wanted to instruct Arjuna... Arjuna was a householder, a kṣatriya, not even a brāhmaṇa, not a Vedantist. The question may be why He selected Arjuna to preach Bhagavad-gītā which is so (indistinct) and (indistinct). That Kṛṣṇa says bhakto 'si. "Without being bhakta nobody can understand Me." And again He confirms, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If we interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a different way, karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll never get Kṛṣṇa. So these things are there. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā one has to become a devotee, pure devotee. Not because he's learned scholar, he's a big politician or a big yogi or big jñānī. Because He plainly says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, what He is, then it is natural he'll interpret in his way, his own philosophy. That is not (indistinct). If you take jñāna, yoga, karma, or other.... But it is not possible. You have to receive it through the paramparā system. The paramparā system is clear. As Arjuna understood, you have to take it. And if you preach, that will be effective. I...

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: If you say my idea then I become one of you. (laughter) So I don't want that. I say I am foolish man. I have no idea. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is idea. Just like a child, he speaks the words of the father. If the father... The child asks,"Father, what is this?" The father says, "This is a stick." So if the child says, "That is a stick," so that is correct. He may be a child. Because he repeats the words of the father... (Hindi) If the people are fools and rascals, then other will be fool and rascal. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). (Hindi) If you accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme then where is the question of interpretation? (Hindi conversation) But who accepted? This is a fact. You try to understand that before me for 200 years so many swamis, yogis were there. Not a single man became Kṛṣṇa conscious. (Hindi conversation) He is not teacher he is cheater. Why should you change Kṛṣṇa's words? That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't manufacture. What Kṛṣṇa has said, you say. Just as a child he can say, "This is a stick." "How you have learned?" "Father said." That's all. (Hindi) I started this busi

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Girirāja: Purport. "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is already liberated. When one understands Kṛṣṇa properly. Then.

Girirāja: "And therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body."

Prabhupāda: That return to God is eternal. Suppose I am your guest here, so you may provide me for some days, but I cannot expect that you can provide me for all the days. That is my mistake. But if you go to your father's house, there is no question of. He takes. That is the required. Go to your father. Mām eti. Therefore this is the way of eternity, that you understand who is your father and you go back to Him. Then his life is successful. And who is the father?

Indian man: (laughing) Not the body.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Not body. It is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this verse. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ, tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. He is the father.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: You say Lord Kṛṣṇa, but I must know what Kṛṣṇa is.

Prabhupāda: Then it is very difficult to make you understand. Everyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Then you should learn it, what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said, anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated. Because you do not know, you are not liberated. Otherwise, as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa you become liberated.

Indian man: It is plain fact. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So try to understand Kṛṣṇa from the right source. Otherwise, you will remain a rascal. That's all. That is your first business, to understand Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is explained in so many śāstras. If I am so rascal that still I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.

Indian man: Simply misfortune.

Prabhupāda: If I want to come to point of misfortune, that is my disease. Otherwise, we can understand little, Kṛṣṇa is explaining.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: If I want to come to point of misfortune, that is my disease. Otherwise, we can understand little, Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

evaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti...

(BG 4.9)

Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa is liberation. And that is also explained. What is that tattva? How one can understand tattvataḥ, that is explained by Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). That tattva is bhakti, not karma, jñāna, yoga. Everything is there. And still if we want to be misled that is our misfortune.

Indian man: I am a seeker; I want to know.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am taking this trouble. Otherwise, I have no business.

Indian man: I want to know Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. If you want to know, then there is way. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated.

Indian man: This is the first step to know Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. There is no difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa. Suppose you have no knowledge about me, what is Swamiji. You may speculate, "Swamiji may be such and such, such and such." But if I explain myself, that "I am like this," then where is the difficulty? You haven't got to speculate. Because I am explaining. So you take that. You understand Kṛṣṇa. Why speculation?

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is no need of speculation. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. You take the advantage of Kṛṣṇa's explanation. You understand Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. I am explaining my position. You have to understand as I am explaining. You cannot explain me. That is not possible. There are so many secrets, I do not dis..., if I do not disclose, how you can explain it?

Indian man: Very simple, the way you related mother's. My mind could immediately accept it. But at the point of father's it stopped.

Prabhupāda: Because you are thinking to become father in a particular way. You do not accept...

Indian man: Mother also in particular way...

Prabhupāda: That means you are thinking in your own particular way. But Kṛṣṇa is not subjected to your thinking. You have to give up this bad habit first of all, that Kṛṣṇa will be subordinate to your thinking. That is not God.

Indian man: How to give up this bad habit?

Prabhupāda: That means you have to become a bhakta. So long... You are thinking as jñānī. Therefore... Jñānī cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Only the bhakta can understand.

Indian man: Because he thinks in other ways.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: "You simply take this process. Think of Me always." And the next, He says sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). No. There are other processes? Give away, kick away. Take this. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is meanings of the... But because one cannot understand, therefore He has explained karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, haṭha-yoga, this yoga. And He has explained also the meaning

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

"He is first class yogi who has taken to Me only, thinking of Me." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā. "Always within the heart, who is thinking of Me, first-class yogi." One who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he may be a yogi, a third-class, fourth-class yogi. Not a first-class. (Hindi conversation) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...to make dāl puri, dāl baḍi. Do they make? Inside it is dāl. (break)

Life Member: When I come here for one day, I wish to stay here for three days, five days, seven days, I mean, always extend it for awhile. It is never on the set day. Whenever I come for a day, I stay two days. If I come for three days I stay about five days. (break)

Prabhupāda: Dāl can be replaced with boiled potato.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) For this reason Kṛṣṇa says janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). One who knows what are the activities of Kṛṣṇa he is liberated. So

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

So to understand Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, it is not possible for ordinary person.

Mr. Malhotra: Why this trying to understand Kṛṣṇa? Why not try to understand one's self? Kṛṣṇa passed 5000 years ago. Now ashes are there in our hands. Why not...

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is... Why Kṛṣṇa? You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. You are nitya, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, you are nitya. Why do you say Kṛṣṇa existed 5000 years ago? He is existing always.

Mr. Malhotra: Always existing there. (indistinct) Within you, within oneself.

Prabhupāda: So many things. Magic jugglery is...

Mr. Malhotra: But there are some siddhis also. These siddhi, siddhis.

Prabhupāda: That is siddhi, magic also siddhi. You are successful businessman, that is also siddhi. That is also siddhi. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even one is siddha, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is said, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Even one is siddha, still he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Malhotra: But if he goes to āśrama, where and everybody sits there, the big Kṛṣṇa statue is there. In his room personal room Kṛṣṇa statue...

Prabhupāda: If he is at all devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he will never say that he is Bhagavān. That is foolishness. That very assertion is foolishness.

Mr. Malhotra: But Bhagavān, they don't call them Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: That they write in the books. They don't call, but write in the books.

Hari-śauri: There was one article in the Blitz where they quoted him saying, God is man and man is God.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he is the incarnation for this age.

Prabhupāda: And where is the evidence? Anyone can say, "I am incarnation." (laughter) Any rascal can say.

Mr. Malhotra: Anyone can say. (laughing)

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Similarly to go to the Absolute Truth, you begin with impersonal Brahman. Just as sunshine is impersonal, but everyone can see the sunshine is coming from the sun surface. Everyone knows that. Therefore the sunshine is not so important as the sunglobe. Similarly brahma-tattva-nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahma is there, but more important than is the localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), God is all-pervading. The sunshine is all-pervading, and as Paramātmā He is also all-pervading. But if you can enter into the sunglobe, you will meet with the sun god. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So there is sun-god. Sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one. But different stages of understanding. Similarly, Brahman understanding, Paramātmā understanding, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead understanding. Advaya-jñāna. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But if you stop simply in the sunshine, that means you have no knowledge of the sun god or the sun globe. If you have simply knowledge of the sun globe, then you are not aware of what is the sun-god. But if you know sun-god, then you know what is sun globe and the sunshine. That is wanted. That is perfect knowledge. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). When, after many many births, when one is actually in knowledge, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, understanding that Kṛṣṇa is everything, that mahātmā is sudurlabha, very rare. Somebody knows only impersonal Brahman, the jñānīs. Somebody knows the Paramātmā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe (BG 18.61). And one who knows Kṛṣṇa he is perfect. (break) ...this stage of understanding Kṛṣṇa, your knowledge is imperfect. (break) ...śāstras, but unfortunately we do not refer to the authority of the śāstras. We manufacture our own way.

Mr. Malhotra: No actually what has happened is that there has been too many interpretations.

Prabhupāda: There cannot be interpretations.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I say any religious stamp, material, there is no benefit. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). You have to give up all these designations. And bhakti, love of Godhead, or service to God, begins when you are relieved from these designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When becoming God conscious, you become completely purified, then your devotional life begins. And so long you are entangled with this designation, there is no question of devotional service. Either you Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. So our business is not that, that we convert a Hindu to a Christian or a Christian to a Hindu. That is not our business. They are thinking, because we dress like that, with tilaka, with māla, they think Hindu. But it's not our business to convert the Christians to become Hindus, as all other missionaries, they are doing. They are trying to increasing the number of Christian or Hindus. So our... There is no question of increasing. It is very difficult to accept.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ