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Understand God (Conv. 1975 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha is also āśrama. It is as good as sannyāsa āśrama. You can accept any āśrama suitable for you, but āśrama means cultivation of spiritual knowledge. That is the difference between āśrama and ordinary house. Now, this building is called temple, and the next building is called house. Why? The building is the same. But it is meant for cultivating spiritual knowledge. Therefore it is called temple, to understand God. The other house is meant for eating, sleeping, mating and defending. Therefore they are house. So you can change your house into temple provided you try to understand God. Then it is āśrama. Otherwise it is house.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Just like we are sitting, ladies and gentlemen here. So every one of us, we have got different dress. The dress is superficial, but as ladies and gentlemen, human being, we are one. Similarly, each one of us can have a different dress. So these living entities, they are in different dresses only, and the dresses are calculated-8,400,000 different forms. In the water there are 900,000 different dresses. Similarly, the trees and plants, the two million different types of vegetables. Jalaja-nava-lakṣāni sthavara-lakṣa-viṁśati. There are insects. There are 1,100,000 species. Similarly birds, there are one million. And Pakṣiṇāṁ daśalakṣanam. Daśa-lakṣa means one million, one million types of bird. And three million types of beasts. And 400,000 forms of human being. In this way the living entity is passing through different dresses. And the best dress is this human form because in this dress you can understand what is God, what you are, what is your relation with God, and then you can act and go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore if this dress, in this dress... I am living being; you are living being. So we are in this human form of dress. We have got developed consciousness. If we miss the opportunity to understand God, then again we are put into the cycle of this evolutionary process. We should not therefore misuse this form like other forms. We should utilize it properly to understand the unlimited God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is perfection of life.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Anyone knows Bible it is said?

Śrutakīrti: It's in there, yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Śrutakīrti: God says, "I am who am."

Prabhupāda: No, God said, "I am," you say, "I am"—that is all right. But God says "I am,"—we can understand God. "I am" means God. But what you are?

Guest: Well, He said, "This is My name, and this is My name forever."

Prabhupāda: He says like that?

Śrutakīrti: That's the way it's translated, "I am who am."

Prabhupāda: So nobody knows Bible here? I am not very much conversant with Bible. But so far I know that Christ says that "I am the son of God." We can understand. So is there any difference? God says or Christ says that "I am the son of God." So the father is different. The father can say "I am," and the son also can say, "I am," but everyone is "I." But what is the relation between this "I" and that "I." That is wanted to know.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being. Animal eats, we eat; animal sleeps, we sleep; animal have sexual intercourse, we have; animal also defends, we also defend. These are common features. And what is the special feature? The special feature of human being—that he can understand what is God. So if he does not understand God, he is animal, because the distinction between animal and man is being avoided. So far other activities are concerned, they are the same as of human being and as of animal. But what is the distinction? The distinction is that in the human society there is an endeavor to understand God, and the animal society, there is no such endeavor. So when the so-called human society becomes devoid of God consciousness, it is animal society. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for raising the human society to the real platform of human society, not to keep them in the animal platform. Try to understand God and love Him. This is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So, yes?
Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Prabhupāda: So if we miss, then I may get another body, not even human body. Then I miss the opportunity. There are 8,400,000 types of forms. Just like the trees, they are all... (break) ...human form of life. And that may take millions of years. So if we miss this opportunity of human life, to revive our relationship with God, and next life I become something else, then how much great loss it is, just try to understand. This human form of body is obtained after many, many millions of years' struggle. So this is also temporary, as the cats' and dogs' body, they are also temporary. But although it is temporary, it is arthadam. You can achieve the real purpose of life. That is the privilege of this human form of... Therefore as soon as possible, the spiritual education should begin, immediately. If the child simply can understand, "God is great," that is immense profit for him. (break) ...means from five years to twenty-five years, brahmacārī, he has nothing to learn except God, brahmacārī. Brāhme carati iti brahmacārī. He is simply interested in Brahmān. That is called brahmacārī. He has no material interest. That is the foundation of spiritual life. Brahmacārī. And if he can, he remains brahmacārī throughout the whole life. But if he is unable, then he is allowed to marry, gṛhastha. So according to Vedic civilization, any education should begin at childhood. Therefore even one is king's son, he was sent to Gurukula to remain as brahmacārī to learn the basic principle of life. That is Vedic civilization.
Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Religion, in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa, God, is demanding that you surrender. This surrender business is of the servant. Just like I can say to my servant, "Just hear me what I say, do it." And he does it. That is servant. A servant cannot dictate, the master can dictate. Servant is to obey the dictation of the master. That is religion. When the servant obeys the dicta... (aside—indistinct) Hm. Take this picture, keep there. This picture, here, here. You come here. Take this vase down. Yes. We... God is great. God is great. Do you understand? God is great.

Professor Fenton: Great.

Prabhupāda: And we are subordinate. Is it not our position?

Professor Fenton: Being servant, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is our position. God is maintainer and we are maintained. God is predominator and we are predominated. This is our position. We are not equal to God, neither over God. We are always subordinate. And why you are subordinate? Because He maintains us. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He is the supreme being and we are subordinate being. We are maintained by God. That is Vedic instruction. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) This is understanding of God. He is nitya, He's eternal, and we are also eternal because we are samples of God.

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: It is material service, as I showed. If you put foodstuff in your stomach, all the parts of your body feel energetic. That is material service. That is not spiritual service. Spiritual service (is) beyond that. Similarly, the center is God. If you understand God, then you understand everything.

Reporter: Understood, Swamiji. But your disciples do not build houses, they don't work in hospitals, they don't perform—as far as I know, and I could just be swimming in ignorance here—as far as I know, they do not perform service to the outer world other than offering free meals at the temple and preaching the word of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: I, I quite follow. That is your ignorance. Because you do not know that what is the real service. You do not know. Do you know what is real service?

Reporter: The answer should come from you and not from me.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The real service is... Suppose you open hospital. You can cure for the time being some disease, but can you give me, can you give him any assurance that he will not die? Can you protect him from death? In spite of your all big, big hospitals, can you protect humanity from death, from birth, from old age, from disease? Can you?

Reporter: Physically, of course not, only spiritually.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: Do they do anything like social work or other...

Prabhupāda: Yes, social work, this is the best social work. People are in ignorance, and we are giving them knowledge. Is it not the best social work? If you keep the man in ignorance and if you give him something... Just like your child. You simply give him to eat but no education. Then what is the benefit? Is that very good nice work, that you give your children nice food to become robust but no education? Is that very good nice work? People are, in this human form of life, especially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. So they are keeping them in darkness and teaching them technology, how to make cycle. That's all. The life is meant for understanding God, and they have been educated for making cycle and sewing machine. This is going on. Therefore there will be disaster. It is already there. Just like in America or any Western country, they have manufactured so many cars, and now they are flattering the Arabians, "Please give us oil." You see? Power crisis. And if they stop manufacturing, there is unemployment. And if they increase car, there is power shortage. So this dilemma, this modern civilization will have to meet this dilemma because they are going against the laws of God.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: Is this something where we can sort of experience death while we are still alive?

Prabhupāda: Alive, we have been given chance to understand God. But if you don't understand, then next life you become a dog.

Reporter: A dog?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Reporter: Why a dog?

Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) Suppose if God says that "You become a dog," can you check it?

Reporter: Is there any way I can prepare...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that you can if you surrender.

Reporter: If I...?

Prabhupāda: If you surrender.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: By birth they are advanced. They have got intelligence. But for Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone can be purified, even the non-Āryans. It is without any check. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without any material check. It is not a disqualification that one is not an Āryan, therefore he cannot understand God. No. He can also be trained up. Because it is spiritual, and we are all spiritual identities, so it is not difficult. Even one who is not spiritual at the present moment, but by training he can also become spiritual.

Young man: In other words, one has to make an intellectual effort or at least in order to...

Prabhupāda: It is not very highly intellectual. One has to understand first of all that he is not this body. That anyone can understand, that "I am changing my body, but I am there. Therefore I am not this body." Just like a child's coat, when he is young man, that coat does not fit him. So that young man means he has got another body. But the young man knows, he remembers, that he was a child. He was on the lap of his parents or his relatives. So that body is no longer existing. I have got a different body, but I who had the childhood body, I am existing. Is it very difficult to understand, any one of you? The body has changed. That's a fact. But I am the same. (break) What is that?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective. So far our position is, we are approaching directly God through His agent, and our conception of God is there in the temple worship or our working for God. But we have got no vague idea of God. We have got complete idea: Kṛṣṇa. You want to speak anything?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Dr. Movebhed: I said I think the question you put, the clear concept of Kṛṣṇa, or God... The God for me is not a conceptual thing. It cannot be subject to concept, and to understand God, you have to identify yourself with the truth, and otherwise it's not the way to...

Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa as the teacher, authority, just like Arjuna accepted. Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Now I accept You as my teacher." Śiṣya. Śiṣya means disciple. Śiṣyas te aham: "I am Your now disciple. Don't accept me as Your friend." Friend to friend talk, it is not very serious. So when one is accepted as the master, then you have to accept his statement. There is no question of argument. That is the relationship between guru and disciple. Therefore the process is: before accepting a person as guru, one must study his position. And guru also, before accepting a disciple, must study his position. In this way the relationship between guru and disciple is established. Now, Arjuna is a friend of Kṛṣṇa, so he has studied Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he submits, Arjuna, "Kṛṣṇa, although we are friends, now I accept You as my spiritual master." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "I am now surrendered." "Surrendered" means "As I accept you as my teacher, I'll not argue." So first of all this is required, that before accepting somebody as teacher one must be convinced that "The person whom I am going to accept, my teacher, is perfect." Then the knowledge will be nice. If we approach a perfect person and submissively hear from him, then the knowledge is perfect. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the supreme authority, as Arjuna quoted. What is that?

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, poverty is no impediment for understanding God. Because we see practically that those who are great souls, they have voluntarily accepted poverty.

Guest: Just like Pratapudro(?).

Prabhupāda: Many. Just like Vyāsadeva. There is no comparison of his literature. One cannot write one line like him. But he was living in a cottage. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, such a great politician, he was living in a cottage. He did not keep any Rolls Royce car or like that. Rather, this material opulence is impediment to understand God. So it is not that I say, comparatively inferior, not that material opulence is also another check, no. Neither poverty is check nor material opulence is check. Anyone can understand if he follows the principle or process.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: This... The subject matter is whether by theological arguments one can understand God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, according to dictionary, theology, theo, the Latin word theo, it means, that means God. Theo means God. And as far as I know, theology means the science or the study of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: So by definition...

Prajāpati: Not precisely. The word theology comes from the word logos. Theologos. And logos, in this sense, means the word of God. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, the words of God, that means one must know what is God. Otherwise how he can know this is the word of God? What is the answer by the theologian?

Prajāpati: The word of God is that a man is known by his works, his fruits. If he is a godly man...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless you know what is God, how you can accept this is the word of God? Just like you say, "Prabhupāda says." You take it, accept it: "Oh, Prabhupāda said." But you know what is Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Coma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Many of the scientists actually believe in God, and they think that by experimentation, they'll come to understand God more and more.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That we admire, that you are trying to understand God. But there is no God, and they are becoming God—that is nonsense.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Some people say that Darwin was paid by the British...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I said.

Rāmeśvara: ...to make propaganda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore they cannot understand God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not they. They understand, the people understand. But this, this rascal government. That I have studied. Russian people are not bad. They're as good as others. But this is... Just like in India, still the mass of people, they're very good. And too mu... Yesterday we saw, all rascals, all these politicians canvassing, all big, big fat rascals.

Devotee: We were noting that when they were giving their lectures at that opening of the train station they seemed very demonic.

Prabhupāda: All demonic.

Brahmānanda: Their faces were very shifty.

Devotee: So much anxiety and so much political dealings.

Prabhupāda: All demon.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Carol: Would the intellect be helpful in knowing God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you have got the necessary intellect, then you are no better than the animals. The animals have no intellect to understand God, but the human being has got that intellect. That is the distinction between animal and human being. (break) Sleeping, the human being also sleeps; they also sleep. Then sex enjoyment: the human being also enjoy, and the animals also enjoy. And protection from fear or becoming fearful—the human being is also fearful and arranges for protection, and the animal also does. So far the primary necessities of life, that is equal in animal and human being. But the human being has a special intellect developed than the animals that he can understand what he is, what is God, what is this cosmic manifestation, and what is the aim of life, how we should conduct. These things are prerogatives for the human being. The animals have no such prerogative. So if we do not utilize these special intellectual activities, then we remain animal. We do not make any development.

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:
Prabhupāda: They are thinking like that. The dog is sleeping on the floor, and if we sleep in very nice apartment, very decorated, that is advancement of civilization. The dog is having sexual intercourse on the street without any shame, and we are also coming to that point already. And if we have sex intercourse in the name of love and so on, so on, that is advancement. And dog is defending with his jaws and nails and teeth, you are defending with atomic bomb, therefore we are advanced. But they have forgotten that the human being has got this special intellect to understand God. That they are not doing. Just like you are going to be a doctor in anthropology. Is it not?
Room Conversation with Ganesa dasa's Mother and Sister -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: God is the Supreme Truth. So Supreme Truth cannot be Hebrew truth, Christian truth, Hindu truth. Truth is truth. Just like gold. Because gold is found in America, nobody says, "It is American gold." It is gold. So similarly, God is one. He is for Hebrew, He is for Hindu, He is for Muslim, He is for everyone. Simply we have to know what is God. So if you try to understand through Hebrew religion, that's all right. But if you come to know what is God, that is all right. Otherwise useless. If you cannot understand what is God, then Hebrew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these different names, they are useless. And if you understand God, then whatever method it is, it is all good.

Mother: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So first of all, whether the Hebrews, they do understand what is God? That is the point. You are asking about the Hebrews, so do you think that through the Hebrew method one can understand God?

Mother: I think one can understand God regardless of what religion you are.

Prabhupāda: Understand, but suppose... Are you Hebrew?

Mother: Yes.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Well, I have kept you long enough. I...

Prabhupāda: No, you can keep me engaged whole day and night, (laughter) provided you have got time. We are meant for this purpose. If anyone can understand God consciousness, that is a great profit for us. Now our appeal is to everyone, every religious sect, that people are becoming godless generally at the present moment. So we should make combined effort to revive their God consciousness. Otherwise it is doomed. And there is no question of Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God. God is one. So there should be no difference between the system. According to the time and circumstances, there may be little difference, but really if we can understand God, either through Christianity or through Hinduism or Muslim, that is our profit. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion, following which, one becomes a lover of God". You become a lover of God. That we want to see. It doesn't matter whether you go through Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist...

It doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him.

Jesuit: I agree entirely.

Prabhupāda: This is our mission.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: And it's good that, I think, we are coming more to understand that. And I think you see a lot of young people who really are longing for some form of contemplation and prayer. That is why you get followers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, these boys they are coming from your Christian group, Jewish group, but they are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One priest in Boston, he issued one pamphlet that "These boys are our boys, and before this movement, they didn't care to come to the church. And now they are mad after God. How is it? The same boys." So indirectly he accepted this process as easier to understand God. And actually it is easier. What do they do? They don't go to the forest, or meditate, or make any very austere, what is called, penances. They simply chant in the morning and dance in ecstasy and then eat sumptuously. That's all. And now they have given up everything. Now, you bribe them, "You eat meat." They will never eat. They will not drink tea even. The method is... The American government they spent lots of money for stopping this addiction to drugs. And these boys, as soon as they come to me, they give up. Ask them what money I have bribed them. You can ask how they have left it.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee: 400,000.

Prabhupāda: No, total human being, 400,000 species. Altogether, 8,400,000 species of living entities. So these are coming, evolution, by the laws of nature. You cannot stop it. The laws of nature, you cannot interfere. In this way we come to the human form of body, and especially civilized human being. Supposedly, it is the Aryans. The Aryan family, they are the topmost civilized group amongst the living entities. Now, in this life one has to enquire about himself that what is the difference between me and the dog? Why I am claiming a better position than the dog? What is the difference? The difference is that a human being, if he endeavors, he can understand his real constitutional position and he can understand God also. God. Therefore in the human society, civilized human society, there is some sort of religious system. It does not matter whether it is Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion, or Buddha religion. There is some religion in the civilized human society.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In the civilized human society there is some system of religion. So that system of religion means try to understand God. Religion means the law given by God. So civilized human beings, they are trying to understand God and His laws. That is called religion. Now the difference between dog and me is that I can try to understand what is God, what is my position; the dog cannot understand. Dog means the animals. They cannot understand. So that is the difference between a human being and a dog. If we give up religion or the method to understand God and our relationship with Him, then we will remain dog. Then we remain dog. We are not human being. So at the present moment the so-called human society, civilized human society, is giving up the conception of God, understanding God, especially the Communist party. They are openly declaring that "We don't believe in God." But those who are not Communists, they, lip sympathy, they say that "Yes, we believe in God," but actually they do not believe.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Journalist: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness connected with any other religion? Does it derive from Hinduism or Buddhism?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can call it Hinduism, but actually it does not belong to any "ism." It is a science of understanding God. But it appears like Hindu religion. In that sense Buddha religion is also Hindu religion, because Lord Buddha was a Hindu and he started Buddha religion.

Journalist: Do you think modern man must mend his ways or he will... he must get better and know God or he will destroy himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is destroying already. The society is not in stable stage. Just like in America, they are also in trouble now. They are asking money from the federal government. They cannot make solution. So as soon as the monetary source will decline, this civilization will be finished.

Journalist: As soon as the money declines.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because there is no culture. They are not standing on culture. They are standing on money.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...plans. They had to work very hard to find out, "What is this? What is this?" So that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. "Working hard simply to know." Kliśyanti. Kliśyanti means working very hard, labor. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Simply to understand. But they are not kliśyanti to understand God. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. This kind of knowledge is compared with beating the bush. That's all. After taking away the paddy grains, only the skin remains. And if you again beat the skin to get grains, that is not possible.

Devotee 1: Beating the husk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is like that. Kliśyanti kevala-bodha-labdhaye. (break)

Devotee 2: Prabhupāda, I have seen in New Zealand that the dairy farmers they cut the tails off the cows.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee 2: The farmers have cut the tails off the cows in New Zealand.

Prabhupāda: Tails?

Devotee 2: Yeah, they cut the tails off so that when they're milking the tails won't hit them in the face. They do this to all their cows in the milking sheds.

Prabhupāda: For what purpose? The tail, cut the tails?

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is good.

Guest 1: But there are certain people...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say blind. He does not know what is good. real goodness is to understand God. That is real goodness.

Guest 1: But there are certain things that you don't..., that are good, that you can accept as being good just by themselves. Now if you see an old lady who gets run over by a car, you go and help her. Now there are certain things that are good by themselves, I think, and that people will react and do the good thing even though they mightn't have any concept of God.

Prabhupāda: No. Unless you have got the real platform how you can do good? Just like our Madhudviṣa Mahārāja was obliged to you. You have done some good in legal affairs. But unless you are a lawyer, legal man, how can you do it? You have a mind to do good, but if you are not a lawyer, how could you do?

Guest 2: But there would be a lot of lawyers to do...

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I am talking of yourself. If one does not know what is good, then how he will do good? The first business is that he must know what is good. Then he can do something good. Otherwise what is the use of jumping like monkey? He must know. Because you are a lawyer you know how to deal with law, you can do good. But a layman who is not a lawyer, how he can do good? So therefore, anyone who is posing himself as leader to do good to the society, he must know first of all what is good.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Sabhāpati: So who is the greater rascal, the material scientist or the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Light is light so long the sun is not there. Similarly, all these scientists are scientists so long God is not there. And as soon as God is there... Just like our men. They do not care for all this shining, shining light of scientists. The glowworm, they are light so long it is darkness. When it is sunshine, there is no use of these glowworms. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is the Vedic instruction. If you understand God, then you understand everything. Then you will not be allured by the so-called rascal scientist. Accident and this, that, bone. We are not interested. This side is better than the other side. When I was coming to America by ship, at night I was seeing, about hundred miles away there is one ship, a little light. There is a difference, so many miles. Vast ocean. Somebody live there always? No. Somebody is there.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No. Limited cannot understand God. Limited is limited.

Yogi Bhajan: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: Mahātmā means unlimited.

Yogi Bhajan: Um hm.

Prabhupāda: Mahā. Mahā means very great. So unless one has very big understanding, he cannot understand God. God is unlimited. So you have (to) come to that platform to understand. Those who are limited, they cannot understand God. That is not possible. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). Siddha. Siddha means one who has become unlimited, Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, Brahman realization. So Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many millions of person," kaścid yatati siddhaye, "somebody is trying to become unlimited." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Those who have become unlimited, out of millions of them, one can understand Me, Kṛṣṇa." So Kṛṣṇa understanding, God understanding.... When I say Kṛṣṇa, God. God understanding is for the perfect unlimited, not for common man. Common man should accept the ācāryas. They must follow. Ācāryopāsanam. Just like in India the Sikhs, they follow Guru Nanak. So Guru Nanak says, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, incarnation of God." So they should accept, that's all. Not that every Sikh is expected to be unlimited as Guru Nanak. That is not expected.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And theology is science of God. So what is that science? You are trying to understand God, or you know God; you are going to abide by God's dictation. First of all, two things: you do not know God; you are trying to find out God. I think this is not theology; it is theosophy. Those who are trying to find out God by speculation, they are theosophist. And theologist means one who knows God and abides by his order. Just like we know government and we accept the government's law and abide by it. That is good citizenship. And those who have no government, they are trying to find out some good system of government, and that is another thing. So what is your position? You know God or you are trying to find out God? What is the theologician's position? That is my question.

Garden Conversation -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the tenant can be easily evicted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. (laughter) When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Animal condition. Not only horrible, it is animal condition. They do not want to know God. Just like these animals, they are not interested. So they have no church, the animals, or temple. But in the human society, either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, there is some arrangement for understanding God. Now they are also neglecting that, everyone, all over the world. Now they are clearly... The Communists, they hate to say anything about God. So ultimately they are coming to such position, the Communists, that "No word about God." So this is the position. Now apart from them, just like theologists and theosophists. They are, at least, after understanding what is God, but they cannot ascertain definitely. So why do they not take? We are offering, "Here is God." Where is the objection? Why they should object? If you do not know something and if I give you the information, why you should not take?

Dr. Judah: That's a good question.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...manufacturing so many things, United Nations, World Health Organization, and this philanthropism, but the real thing is wanting that the human life is meant for understanding God, there is no such organization. This is the only organization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (break) ...neglectful I do not know. (break)

Devotee: I'm very happy in my new engagement. I'm finding very much success now. We have made four devotees since I have left, three days.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good. (break) ...the definition of God according to the theologicians?

Dr. Judah: Well, there would be many different definitions of God, I suppose, in Christian theology.

Prabhupāda: Why many?

Dr. Judah: It involves various theologies...

Prabhupāda: There is no summary?

Dr. Judah: No. There is no actual statement of any one person or any concept concerning God that would be accepted by all Christians. There are various theologies about God, as I said.

Prabhupāda: No, theologists, some of the prominent theologist, what do they say? How they describe God?

Dr. Judah: Well, it depends upon whether one is a Lutheran or a Calvinist or...

Prabhupāda: Let any one of them say something, I want to hear.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In Bhāgavatam everything has been described.

Dr. Judah: Yes, I received the first part of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that you translated and sent to me, for which I again thank you. I brought it with me to read on the plane. (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...true that now theologians are trying to make mathematical models to understand God?

Dr. Judah: Mathematical models?

Dharmādhyakṣa: This Whitehead, that Alfred North Whitehead, in process theology?

Dr. Judah: Well, I don't know that that would quite be true. I don't know Whitehead really. But it is a... I don't know whether that could be said to be true or not. I really don't know. (break)

Jayādvaita: ...that Altheiser spoke.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Sir, do you think that the wealth of the United States and some certain other countries would be a block to spiritual faith? In Christianity there is a parable that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to come before the throne of God." Would wealth in itself be a block toward spiritual awareness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Too much wealthy condition is a block. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. If one is very materially opulent, he forgets God. Therefore, to be too much materially rich is a disqualification for understanding God. Although there is no more impediment, that "Only the poor man will understand God and rich man will not understand," it is not that. But generally, if one is extraordinarily rich or his one aim is only to acquire money, it is difficult for him to understand God. Bhogaiśvarya... Find out this verse,

bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
tayāpahṛta-cetasām
vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
samādhau na vidhīyate
(BG 2.44)

Another place, I think in the Bible, "God is available for the humble and meek"? What is that? Is there such statement? So the rich person is neither humble nor meek. He is always proud and puffed up unnecessarily. So it is very difficult for...

Jayatīrtha: Christ says that "The meek shall inherit the earth."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayatīrtha: "The meek shall inherit the earth." Because they're meek therefore everything will come to them.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: We don't say that. We don't say that. We say that you follow any religious system. Doesn't matter. But you understand God and love Him. That is our propaganda. We do not say that "You are Christian. This is not good. You come here." We do not say. Why say? Everything is... But our proposition is that either you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him, that's all.

Lt. Mozee: I recognize, sir, that your time is very valuable and I won't delay you much longer. If I could return to my original purpose for coming in the..., what words you may have that would assist us, my superintendent and my department, in the reduction of crime, other than, I recognize, that the first and the foremost way would be a return to God as you said, that there is no doubt about that. But is there something else that you may know or that you may feel that you may be able to say that would assist us in a reduction less than the ideal?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already in the beginning said, that give us facilities, the authorities, to chant the holy name of God and distribute prasādam. Prasādam means...

Lt. Mozee: Yes, I understand.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. If anyone wants to take advantage of it, he can take. We have got fifty books like this. Those who are interested in the science and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can read all these books. Otherwise, one can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, That will also help. The human civilization means everyone shall try to become first-class man. This is human civilization, not to remain like animals. That attempt is lacking now. Here the civilization is that the dog is jumping or running, and human being is running in a motor car, and he is thinking he is more civilized than the dog. But the business is running. That's all. The dog is having sex on the street, and the human being is having sex in a very nice decorated apartment and therefore he is civilized. But the business is the same. The dog is eating on the floor and the human being is eating in a very nice table, nice dish, and therefore he is civilized. But the business is eating. The dog is trying to defend itself by barking or by teeth and jaws, and the human being is trying to defend the society by atom bomb, but the business is defense. Therefore śāstra says, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samanyam etat paśubhir narāṇām: "This business of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is common to the animal and to the man." The man, if he does not understand what he is, why he is suffering this material tribulations, then he remains cats and dogs. The cats and dogs, they cannot question, but human being can question. And he should take the answer from these books of knowledge. That is human life. Otherwise, so far eating, sleeping, sex and defense, that is common for the dogs and man. There is no difference. He is doing in his own way, we are doing in our own way, but the business is the same. So human being must go above these four businesses, the fifth business. The fifth business is how to understand God.

Morning Walk -- July 8, 1975, Chicago:

Jaga-jīvana: Is everything done in our movement for preaching? Everything that is done in our movement is done for preaching?

Prabhupāda: Yes. To awaken their Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are in dog consciousness; we have to raise them to God consciousness. Don't you see how much they are taking care of the dog? Because they do not know, blind, whether they will be God conscious or dog conscious. So the dog conscious people should be raised to the platform of God conscious. That is preaching. Mūḍha nābhijānāti. These rascals, they do not know the life is meant for understanding God. That they... Ask anyone. Nobody knows. They are so fool. They want to remain dog. The dog is also running; they are also running. And because they can run on by car, they are thinking they are civilized. But the business is running, that's all.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Religion means primarily to know God and love Him. That is religion. And nobody knows God, and what to speak of loving Him? Nobody is trained up how to know God and how to love Him. They are satisfied by going to the church: "O God, give us our daily bread." That also not everyone goes. So the Communist says that "You don't go to the church. Bread we shall supply." So poor innocent persons, they get bread elsewhere, so they do not go to church. But nobody is serious to understand what is God and how to love Him. Nobody is serious. Therefore in Bhāgavatam, it is said, it is cheating religion. I profess some religion, but I do not know what is God and how to love Him. That's all. So that type of religion is cheating religion. Religion means to know God and love Him. But generally, a man does not know what is God and what to speak of loving Him? So therefore that is cheating religion. That is not religion. But so far Christian religion is concerned, there is ample chance of understanding God. But they do not care for it. Take for example, the commandment is "Thou shall not kill." But in the Christian world, best slaughterhouses are maintained. So how they can become God conscious? They disobey the commandments, do not care for Lord Jesus Christ's order. So this is not only in Christian religion. Every religion, it is going on. It is simply rubber stamp. "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." And none of them do know what is God and how to love Him.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.

Sandy Nixon: I'm asking these questions for others, of course, a field(?) that is not understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: To understand God means one must be first-class civilized man. Just like university is meant for first-class student, similarly, God consciousness means meant for the first-class human being.

Sandy Nixon: O.K. This question's a hard one for me to ask because it shows ignorance on my part. But I'm not asking it in ignorance. I want your answer on tape, O.K.? Does all desire ultimately have to go, including the desire to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will have simply rubbish desires. And when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you desire rightly.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Subtle body means subtle atoms. So if we are in subtle body, so whatever there is in the subtle body, everything is there.

Devotee (6): Prabhupāda, sometimes on saṅkīrtana we say that the human form of life is the highest because in this form we can understand God, and they say, "Well, what about the dolphins? You know, they've been doing experiments with the dolphins, and they've been finding out that the dolphins have their own conversations and things like that."

Prabhupāda: So what they have done with the dolphins? They are talking only. What they have done? Simply theorizing. (break)

Prabhupāda: (in car) ...improved anything.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: They are going on ciraṁ vicinvan. Forever they are simply thinking, and no improvement has done.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: He has been given a special advantage to think of God, but instead of thinking God, he is thinking all these rubbish things, which he will never be able to fulfill. Misusing. The thinking power he is misusing.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: So this mental speculation or this "perhaps" and "maybe" is a misuse of his specific power to understand God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The life, human life, is meant for enquiring about God, and God is explaining Himself about God. Instead of studying Bhagavad-gītā very scrutinizingly, they are wasting time. "The cells, this, that, atom." That's all, wasting time Just like we are driving this car. So we can utilize it for going from one place to another. So there is no need of studying how the car is moving, how many parts are there.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But still, people seem to have always a curiosity about these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That curiosity is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that it is a machine and there are many subtle parts of the machine. So you have been given this machine. You utilize it properly. Why you are busy in studying the different parts? The different parts are there undoubtedly. But you cannot actually understand.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). By service only. You can understand God simply by service. There is no other way. And the faith begins from the tongue. You see? Therefore it is advised that you chant and take prasāda. Then faith will come. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. It begins... The faith begins from the tongue. "Why?" People will be surprised. "Faith must begin from the mind, from the eyes, and why it is said tongue?" They do not know. That is also faith, that "Simply engaging tongue in the service of the Lord, I shall understand." So this is also blind faith. But actually it is happening. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take{īūl prasādam. That's all.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayādvaita: But how can that be scientifically presented? How can we accept that scientifically?

Prabhupāda: No, no, these rascal scientists, they cannot understand God. Those who were actually advanced, just like Professor Einstein and others, they believed so, that there is God; there is brain. (break) ...somebody was talking about another scientist, big scientist? Who was talking about?

Jayādvaita: That Werner Von Braun.

Prabhupāda: Ah, hah.

Jayādvaita: That space scientist, he has accepted that there must be God.

Prabhupāda: He has, yes. So those who are really scientist...

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Using modern observatories or large telescopes, scientists have photographed other brahmāṇḍas{ūl . At least to my impression they appear to be other solar systems. Like they have a sun and planets around them. Does that mean the material covering between the different brahmāṇḍas is invisible?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You do that. You float one ball if you are so confident.

Rādhāvallabha: I cannot do it, but nature is doing it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. You do not know who is doing. That is rascal. You are thinking everyone like you. That is nonsense. Ātmavat manyate jagat: Everyone is think that 'Other party is like me.' " (break) ...so many conditions are fulfilled, then some action takes place, five. There are mainly five causes. (break) ...God throws a stone, big stone, it floats because He is God. When you throw a stone, it will drown. When God makes one big planet floating, that is possible. You cannot do it. Therefore you have to accept

Rādhāvallabha: (break) ...on a small scale we have set up...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you accept that you are small. You are not the great. God is great; you are small. So claim a small credit, don't claim as good as God. That is your foolishness. Because we are part and parcel of God, we have got capacity to do part and parcel, not the whole. So remain small, don't try to become big. Remain servant of God. Don't try to become God, that is foolishness. That is our philosophy. Tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. Remain humble and meek. You will understand God. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Responsibility is that you have got this human form of life. Realize God. This is your responsibility. Otherwise you are finished. Three words: "You have got this human form of life. Your only responsibility is to understand God. This is your responsibility." That is Vedic culture. For understanding God, many, many kings, many, many saints, they left everything and went to the forest to realize God. That is Vedic culture. Bhārata Mahārāja, under whose name India is called Bhāratavarṣa, he was the emperor of this planet, and at the age of twenty-four years he left everything to realize God. This is Vedic culture. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His position was very, very nice, as a gṛhastha—a nice beautiful wife, affectionate mother, good influence, brāhmaṇa family, learned scholar, everything first class. He left everything just to show us. He was God Himself, but to set the example, tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rajya-lakṣmīm (SB 11.5.34). He gave up a kingdom of fortune which is aspired by the demigods. Such a nice life, such a nice family, but He gave up. Tyaktvā sudustyaja-surepsita-rājya-lakṣmīm dharmistha arya... (SB 11.5.34). Just to teach us the process of realizing God. This is Vedic system. (break) Somebody may not push. (break) ...water? No. Very deep?

Dhanañjaya: Not so much here.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He couldn't reply.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: The body is just a vehicle.

Prabhupāda: Yes, a covering. Vehicle also. Vehicle also. It is just like a machine. You go from one place to another on a motorcar machine. So this body is just like machine. On account of our material, conditional life we are thinking that "If I get this position, then I will be happy. If I get this position, I will be happy." We are creating mental concoction. But nothing will make us happy unless we come to our real position that "I am part and parcel of God. My business is to associate with God and help or cooperate with God." So that position we have to revive. And there are different types of vehicle, in the aquatic animals, then, I mean to say, plants. When the water is dried up, then vegetation comes. Then vegetation..., from vegetation, we... Trees and plants, they cannot move. Then we get little improvement; we can move, just like flies, insects, microbes, reptiles, and so many. So there are nine lakhs' forms of body within the water. Then two million types of bodies in vegetable, and then 1,100,000 species of life like microbes, germs, worms, insects. Then you come to the birds' life, three million different forms of. Then we come to beast life. That is also... Birds, I am sorry. Birds' life, one million, and then the beast life, three millions... Then we come to human form of body, and especially, gradually, we become civilized. So when we are civilized, then it is a chance to understand "what is God, what I am, what is our relationship." So if we don't take advantage of this civilized human life to understand God, and if we simply waste our life like cats and dogs, jumping and going here, then this is a great missing point. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people not to miss this opportunity. You take full advantage on this human form of life and try to understand God and your relationship with God.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: If you've been bad enough, you might finish...

Prabhupāda: No, that... This I have already told you. There are 8,400,000 different forms of life. So you can enter any one of them according to your mental condition. We are under the control of the material nature. The material nature is being conducted in three modes: goodness, passion and ignorance. So just like three colors: yellow, red, and blue. Now you mix-three into three equal to nine, nine into nine equal to eighty-one. So these modes of material nature is being mixed up. Therefore there are so many varieties of life. So if we transcend this coloring platform of material nature, we come to the pure consciousness. Then we stop this repetition of birth and death in different forms of life. And if we do not that, then there is chance of going down or going up. There are different planets. If you cultivate the modes of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system, higher standard of life. And if you don't improve or don't go down, then you may remain in the present stage. But out of ignorance, if you still degrade, commit sinful activities, violate the laws of nature, then we go down again—the animal life, the plants' life, like that. But again we have to evolve, evolutionary process, by nature's... So it may take many millions of years. So therefore a human being must be responsible that "I have got this opportunity to get out of this cycle of birth and death and different forms of life, and let me properly understand God and what is my relationship with God and act accordingly so that if we understand what is God, then we go back to home, back to Godhead."

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So why not appoint somebody to teach Bhagavad-gītā As It Is? That is essential. And we have got step by step, so many books, fifty books, simply to understand God.

Prof. Olivier: Uh huh. You mean from the beginning right through the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You can make them pass the entrance examination, the graduate examination, the postgraduate examination by studying these books. Yes.

Prof. Olivier: Well, this is apparently what one needs. This is perhaps what one needs, you know.

Prabhupāda: And our books are being appreciated, Europe, America, by big, big professors, universities. They are giving us standing order, even in Oxford University. What is that, Oxford University?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I was just in London a while back.

Prabhupāda: No, that letter is there?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know if I have the one from Oxford.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God. But if you do not know God, then what is the value of your knowledge?

Indian man (3): Quite right.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They use the same argument against us, though, that… They use the same argument against us that so few people can understand God

Prabhupāda: No. We don’t say like that. We say that God first spoke to sun-god, and sun-god spoke to his son, Manu, and Manu spoke to Ikṣvāku, Ikṣvāku spoke to his son. In this way are there. We don’t say, "The God spoke to me." Evaṁ paramparā prāptam, that is quite reasonable. God said to Brahmā, and the Brahmā said to Nārada, Nārada said to Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva said to others. In this way we should know. If my father said to my forefather… My forefather said to my father or my grandfather, and the same news is coming in family way, then where is the wrong? We don’t say, "Darwin simply knew it." No, we don’t say that. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam. He was a rascal number one, all these scientists, the so-called scientists.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): Adhīra should be guided by the dhīra.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Adhīra should be guided by the dhīra. Then it will be all right. (break) Unnecessarily.

Indian man (1): The whole week they are very, very busy. Now today, Sunday, at least they think by playing golf, they can relax.

Prabhupāda: That is also another business. So this Sunday should have been utilized for understanding God. But they have no knowledge. Because they are fools, so again busy in pushing on a ball. That's all.

Harikeśa: We should go quickly. They're not going to stop.

Indian man (1): They won't stop.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've already both hit the ball. Now walk three hundred yards and hit it again.

Prabhupāda: Busy fools, creating foolishness, and this is aristocracy; a rich man's engagement.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Bhakti... Just like I have got some official servant, and I have got very confidential servant. So to my confidential servant everything is disclosed. He knows everything. But official servant, he may not know everything. Therefore bhakti is the confidential part of understanding God. Otherwise they understand vaguely, impartially, not sufficiently. In the Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse, mayy āsakta-manā pārtha yoga yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, samagram, asaṁśaya samagra mā yath jñās... You can quote it. That is the first śloka of the Seventh Chapter.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa nāmādi na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By these material senses, you cannot understand God. Nāmādi. Even you cannot understand His holy name. Our understanding of God begins by chanting the holy name. So by chanting, chanting, because God is not different from the name, you associate with name..., er, with God, and then you become cleansed. This is the process. God is not different from His holy name. So you chant the holy name of God. That means you associate with God immediately. Just like you associate with the sun immediately, er, sunshine—you become warm—similarly, by associating with God, you become God conscious. This is our program. We are giving chance people to associate with God directly by chanting His holy name. God is omnipotent. His name is as omnipotent as He is. These fools, they do not know that.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority. Don't."

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex, then meat-eating. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Bhāgavata: ...leaving the four sinful activities. Then one can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, this is practicing. This is practicing. Unless one is... Yeṣam tu anta-gataṁ pāpam. Unless one is free from sinful activities, one cannot understand God. It is not possible. God is not so cheap.

Dr. Patel: Practice and vairāgya both are necessary, not only vairāgya. No?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: Practice and vairāgya both are necessary.

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya means when you are not addicted to sinful life. That is vairāgya. People have got attachment for sinful activities. (break) ...deve bhagavati bhakti-yoga-prayojitaḥ, janayaty aśu vairāgyam. That is the vairāgya way. You cannot practice vairāgya without Vasudeva's shelter.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is life. This artificial life is no life. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has described this modern civilization of artificial life. So he says, jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. He declares all these artificial way of life, advancement of material civilization, means advancement of influence of māyā. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyāra vaibhava. Expansion of the influence of māyā. Then? What is the result? The result is anitya saṁsāre, moho janmeiya. Jaḍā vidyā sab, māyār vaibhava, tomāra bhajane badha. māyā means forgetfulness of God. This is māyā. māyā means the more you forget Kṛṣṇa, the more you are involved in māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So māyā's business is to cover you more and more as you forget Kṛṣṇa. This is māyā's business. So therefore, expansion of māyā's influence means forgetting Kṛṣṇa. Tomāra bhajane badha. They're all hindrances only to make spiritual progress and to understand God. So what is the net result? The net result is anitya saṁsāre, moha janmeiyā. We are already attached to this material world, which is temporary. By this expansion of māyā's influence we become more attached. Attachment is already there, but we become more and more attached. In this way, jība ke karaye gadha.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you can... Difficult to do, you can count ever... It is very difficult to count this sand. Can you count? It is very difficult. But you can waste your time in counting. (laughter) You are rascal; you can go on: "I shall count how many." But it is not possible. So that is rascaldom. Which is not possible, that we'll get. Now it is... Everyone knows there are some particles. Now you go on counting. Don't eat. Don't sleep. Go on counting. And śāstra says, ""Even if you are able to count this, you'll not be able to know God, even if you are able." This is not possible to count, but even if you become so expert that you can count one day, still it will be acintya tattva. That is... There is a verse that even one day you become the rolled sky... The sky is so big. You can roll it just like you roll up your bedding. And even if you can, all the atoms constituted, still you'll not be possible to know, understand God.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no other way of worshiping except bhakti.

Dr. Patel: No, but that is also a bhakti, sir.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but... Only way. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). God is one, and to understand God is one. That is it. Now...

Dr. Patel: He has saints in the same God by all the ways. If I...

Prabhupāda: There is no other way. That is foolishness. That is explained. Ye 'py anya-devatā bhaktā yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ, mām eva te 'pi bhajanty avidhi-pūrvakam. That is avidhi. That is not vidhi.

Dr. Patel: They are bhajanti. Still they are bhajanti, sir. They are not non-bhajanti like so-called mūḍha scientists and like Hoffer.(?)

Prabhupāda: Bhajanti... It is, think, yajanti, not bhajanti. Yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam. That is not the way.

Dr. Patel: Bhajanty avidhi-pūrvakam? Bhajanty aviddhi-purvakam.

Prabhupāda: Yajanti.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: How can you say that? You may call them "rascal." Doesn't matter to them. But then that is their way, sir.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes... That is obstinacy.

Dr. Patel: That... Obstinacy or no obstinacy, that is their way. That's all. Truth has to be understood.

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand God in your own way. That is not possible. Everyone is...

Dr. Patel: "Those also come to Me," avidhi-pūrvakam. Avidhi-pūrvakam.

Prabhupāda: Avidhi means rascaldom.

Dr. Patel: You may call them rascal or rogue or...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Avidhi, avidhi...

Dr. Patel: But they are going to the same place.

Prabhupāda: You are a medical man. If somebody is doing wrongly, you must say it is a rascaldom. Yes. You cannot accept, "Oh, you are all right. You are all right. You are doing in your own way." (laughter) He's another rascal.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They were, they were belonging to the Aryan family. The Europeans, they were also Aryan family, and Indians, the Arabians, Persians, they were all Aryan family. And the Americans they also migrated from Europe. They are also Aryans. But that is familywise. But actually Aryan means one who is advanced in civilization. That is Aryan. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, He addressed him, "non-Aryan." "You are not talking like Aryan." Anārya juṣṭam. "You are talking like non-Aryan." (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Aryan means advanced. The first-class civilized men are the Aryans. So that standard of Aryan civilization is to understand God, Viṣṇu, and go back to. This is perfectional. Yato vā imani (indistinct) bhūtāni jayante. To understand it. And again return back to Him. The modern civilization, they are completely unaware of God, neither they know it that going back to home, back to Godhead, is perfection of civilization. This is the defect.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Sell well." You know he is "sell well" man. (laughter)

Mahāṁsa: Sell a brick for the temple. Well, one person got the book, and he came the next day and he wanted to become a member. He was convinced. And Acyutānanda says that this is for the atheistic people who cannot understand God, so here we are proving scientifically that God exists and how Kṛṣṇa is the supreme scientist. So materialists, there are so many materialistic people, they always like these kind of books, so they are buying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The next book will also be a big hit, I think, that these scientists are preparing.

Mahāṁsa: Daily there are at least 2,000 to 2,2500 people coming to the program. There would be more if there was more space, but it's an enclosed hall, so we can't fit in more people. It's packed up.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a lot bigger than it was three months ago?

Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes. We have very big publicity. And we get letters from different parts of Karnataka inviting us for programs in their villages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you do that. (break) Some big man came to see me for cooperating with others like Chinmayananda and Vinoda Bhave.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound..., hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent." That is the first-class mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). Every... Dark, darkness. He keeps himself in darkness. This life was given to him by nature to become liberated by understanding God, but he does not take care of. He is making plan: "We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you like. It's a little early still. You could walk out to the front gate today and see how they are painting.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. So let us go. (break) ...says, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta-varān nibodhata.(?)Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo. Still he will sleep in this human form of life and remain animal, cat and dog. A simple word, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo. This is Vedic instruction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata: "Get up. Be awakened. You have got this body. Try to understand God." That they will not do. They'll come to fight: "Oh, you are playing mṛdaṅga at four o'clock and disturbing my sleeping?" This is going on. "Let me go to the police. You are trying to awaken me from my sleeping? You are trying to make me intelligent? Let me remain fool. Why you are disturbing me?" Māyā's influence. Kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. Simply wasting of time. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over sleeping first, nidrā, then eating. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. What is this?

Bhavānanda: It says, (break) "...when not in use."

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's for the gate.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as.... When you understand that "I, the proprietor of the body, I am different from this body," then you will understand God also, very easily. Because you are the proprietor of this body and you are given the controlling power of the body by thinking, feeling, willing, by acting.... You have got this body. You are sitting here. You can say, "Now I am going away." The body is under your control. You can do that. Similarly, when you understand this fully, then you'll understand that in this huge, gigantic body, material cosmic manifestation, there is a controller, easily. But if you do not understand yourself, how you can understand God? God is not different in quality than from you. God means like you in huge, unlimited quantity. As you have got little intelligence—you can create a wonderful thing, 747 airplane flying in the air—so God has got unlimited brain. Millions and trillions of universes are floating in the air. The process is the same. You are tiny.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: You have got brain, He has got brain, but your the brain is very tiny, little, and his brain very big. That is difference between God and you. So if you understand yourself, sample of God, then you understand the Supreme God. But first of all you do not understand yourself. I am misidentifying, "I am this body." And that is doing.... The cats and dogs, they are doing that. Then where is your human intelligence? Then how you can understand God if you have no human intelligence? These books are meant for the human being. If I give to the dogs that "Read this book; you'll understand God," who cares for it? All these school, college, institution, university, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if we do not take advantage of this human form of life and try to understand ourself and God, then we are simply cats and dogs. That is going on. We are fighting like cats and dogs. And before the Englishman came in Australia, Australia was property of somebody else. And now you have captured Australia, you are barking, "Why you have come, Indian, here?" What is this civilization? Hm? You have taken illegally from others, and now you have become proprietor. You are barking like dog, "Why you have come here?" What is this civilization? The civilization is.... All land belongs to God. We are sons of God.
Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if someone can understand that they're not this body, then immediately he should be able to understand that there's a Supersoul.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have already told you just now. Therefore it is very essential to understand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the approach used by Kṛṣṇa is essential for any person who wants to understand the Supersoul?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Someone in material consciousness cannot understand God? So then what of all these religions, for example, Muslim and Christian religion? Generally speaking, they don't even accept the existence of soul.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're not religion. They're cheating. This is not religion, this is cheating.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So simply they're talking about God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this?

Hari-śauri: This is dob juice, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you can keep that. Actually, there is no religion. In the name of religion, some farce is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Upendra: But sometimes we meet a rare soul who does follow, but because there's no mention of Kṛṣṇa in his scripture...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not the question of Kṛṣṇa religion.... If he believes in God and the God's word is religion, so he must follow the God's law. It doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa is another name of God. But God is the same, one, either you call Kṛṣṇa, or Govinda, or this or that. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktiḥ. First of all, one must be faithful to God. That you may call God or Allah, it doesn't matter. But you must know what is God and what is faith to God, what is definition of God, what do you mean by "understand God." These things are required.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So that must become the practice of...

Prabhupāda: Practice is no question. We have to talk with science. Practice, you have practiced something which is against religion. That should not be taken.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: How they can? Do you mean to say dogs simply barking, they will come to a conclusion? (chuckles) It is not possible. There is no aim, what is the actual aim of life. So this is very important movement. At least the intelligent class of men, they must understand it thoroughly. Just like there is body. There are different parts, different sections of the body, but the most important section is the brain. Similarly, the important section of society means one who is fully in God consciousness. I.... You can cut my hands, I shall live. You can cut my legs, I shall live. But if you cut my head, (indistinct). So, at the present moment, there are big, big scientists, big, big technologists. That's all right; that is hands and legs. But there is no brain. Therefore in one sense, you can take it as dead society. So in my opinion, I like your country, America. Sometimes I call, "This is my fatherland," because these American boys, they are helping me pushing on this movement. I am very much obliged to these boys. Now, let us take it little more seriously statewise. And if America takes it seriously, other nations will follow. And there is the United Nations Organization in America. And make a nice organization to understand God. United Nations God Consciousness. People will benefit.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Don't misunderstand. It is.... Religion, it means a kind of faith. Just like you are Christian, I am Hindu. So you have faith in Christian religion, I have faith in Hin.... That is another thing. But this is.... We understand religion in a different way according to English dictionary. But real religion means the law given by God. This is the shortcut definition of religion. And if you do not know what is God, and if you do not know what is His law, then what is the meaning of religion? There is no meaning of religion. If blindly, if I have some faith in some dogmas and ritualistic ceremonies, that is not religion. Religion means the science by which you can understand God and the law of God. That is religion. It is not the kind of faith. Just like state laws. You may have faith or no faith. The state law is law; you have to obey it. Just like I have come in America. In our country, the street law is "Keep to the left." So I have come to America, you say "Keep to the right." If I say, "No, I have no faith in this 'Keep to the right.' " No, I must obey. That is law.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God, service to God means, just like you put foodstuff in the stomach. Then the service, supplying energy, is distributed automatically. The eyes get service, the ears get service, the hands get service, legs get service, everything. But if you put foodstuff in the eyes, instead of giving service, you make it blind. If you put foodstuff in the ear, instead of hearing, it is blocked. Then that is ignorance. You do not know where to give service. The knowledge, God consciousness, means to know where to give service, so that the service will be automatically distributed. You pour water on the root of the tree and the energy will be distributed to the trunk, to the branches, to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers, everyone. We are missing their point. This is scientific,

yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena
tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ
prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ
tathaiva sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā
(SB 4.31.14)

So instead of giving service in so many ways—social, political, philosophical, cultural, this way, that way—if you simply learn how to serve God, then everything will be done. So that is our philosophy, and we are laboring for this purpose, that you understand God and give service to Him, then the whole society will be perfect, peaceful.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That suppose if you are speculating what may be the Swamiji's strength of bank balance. So how you can know it by speculation? But if I say that my bank balance is such and such, than you can understand what is bank balance. So by speculative knowledge you can not understand God. When God says what He is, then you can understand.

Reporter: Do you feel also that if someone read the Bhagava...? I can't pronounce it...

Rāmeśvara: Bhagavad-gītā.

Reporter: ...Bhagavad-gītā and other books, that a person merely by reading these could attain knowledge of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Reporter: Would that person have to have contact with you and learn from you also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is explained, there is no difficulty. But if there is difficulty to understand, then we have to approach a person who has understood Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise the language is very plain, there is no difficulty. Unfortunately they bring their own interpretation and spoil the whole thing.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: In the West, people are generally unfamiliar, I think, with the philosophy of Śaṅkara, yet in your books you devote so much argument to defeating Māyāvāda philosophy. I was wondering if it is within every conditioned soul's heart to be an impersonalist. Is it.... Does every conditioned soul have the propensity for impersonalism?

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot understand God; therefore it is impersonalism. It is due to their poor fund of knowledge. So most people are in poor fund of knowledge.

Hari-śauri: As soon as one forgets Kṛṣṇa, he's impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahendra: Just like many of us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking, that...

Prabhupāda: They cannot think that a person, how he can produce a sky? That is beyond their conception. This is their illusion.(?) They say God is all-powerful, but He cannot produce a sky. This is their defect of knowledge. If God is all-powerful, why He cannot produce a sky? That they cannot think. Yes, He's all-powerful, cannot produce a sky. Their intellect. Poor intellect.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: A small fish can go against the waves. There is a Hindi poetry that a small fish can go against the big waves, whereas a big elephant is washed away. This is practical. Bahiya jāya(?) gajarāja. Gajarāja means, gaja means elephant. In big waves, if you put an elephant, he'll be washed away. But a small fish, he'll go against the waves. He's expert. This example is given that the fish, although he's very small, he's off the water. He's under the water. Therefore he's so powerful. He can go against the waves. That means āśraya. If one takes shelter of the supreme powerful, he also becomes powerful. The example is given, the small fish, it has no power, but because he has taken shelter of the water, it can go against big waves, whereas a big elephant, he'll be washed away, because he has not taken shelter. He has not taken shelter of the water. He is, on the land he is very powerful, but in the water he has no power. So according to different circumstances, we become powerful. A person, he was given the opportunity of human being to understand God, his position in relationship with God. So they won't care to take instruction about these features of life. They'll waste their time as a big swimmer in the water, with the result that he's going to be a fish. If nature's law.... You are giving up this body. That's a fact. You are leaving this body. Now what is your position? That will depend on the nature's law. Your body is finished. Now you are completely under nature's law. So whatever nature's law allow you, you have to accept. Your so-called education, so-called prestigious position, everything will be finished. You cannot do anything. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27).
Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No knowledge. That is animal. That is animal.

Rāmeśvara: Then how is he benefited? You explained it, as he is being promoted he is being corrected.

Prabhupāda: Corrected, yes.

Rāmeśvara: But if he cannot understand God...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need of.... Different stages of body.... Just like you are going up one step, another step, another step. There is no need of going, "What is this?" But you are going up, step by step.

Mahendra: In the Bhagavad-gītā, you explain that one takes a specific birth due to a specific degree of lust.

Prabhupāda: Yes, mental situation.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you once said that if someone is not attracted to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that he is being punished by Yamarāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Āpana karama bhuñjāye śamana kahaye locana dāsa.

Dānavīr: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes when we're preaching to people that we don't eat meat, fish or egg, they say,"Why not eggs? They're not actually living. It's just a, it hasn't been fertilized."

Prabhupāda: Then that's a rascal. You explain it, explain to him that why they cannot make an egg by chemical composition and give for fermentation and a chicken may come. Why do they not do that? Why they are taking eggs from hens? Why do they not chemically manufacture egg?

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupāda: A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him. This is modern civilization. Ignorance. A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense.
Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:
Prabhupāda: To understand God, a simple method. Simple method to.... Just like the earth is there, everybody knows. And from the earth different varieties of living entities are coming. The grass is coming, the plant is coming, then insects are coming, flies are coming, then by eating the grass or flies, the bigger animals are coming or they're existing. Take for four-legged animals, they are eating the grass, the plants. So they are living, their generation is going on. Then the human being is coming by evolution. So anyway, ultimately, they are coming from the earth. Is it not? Is there any difficulty? So we are coming from the earth or water or air, fire, there are five elements. Therefore on the total material elements is our mother. The mother means wherefrom one comes. He's your child because his body has come from your body. Everyone knows it. So every living being is coming out of this earth in different forms. Now if it is established, the mother is the earth and everything that is coming out of mother, they are children, then where is father? Is it not the next inquiry?
Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So in the school, college classes, there is sometimes argument?

Satsvarūpa: All the time. (laughter) We always save half the time for questions, and immediately, "How do you know that that is true?" All challenging. "Why should I believe?" "How could God present the scriptures?" All faithless.

Jayādvaita: In this part of the country, I think the students, generally they admit there is God. They're a little pious in this central portion. There are so many farms and they're not so deteriorated.

Prabhupāda: Polluted.

Jayādvaita: But then they don't accept that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only process for understanding God. They want to maintain Christian religion, or.... Not Christian religion, but sense gratification and, at the same time, God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We want to regulate. That's all.

Mādhavānanda: Actually, we have the best sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Everyone's body is temporary, either human body or cat's body, dog's body. But the human body is important because in the human body we have developed consciousness by which we can understand what is God. The cats and dogs, they cannot, they haven't got that developed consciousness. Therefore if we do not use this developed consciousness for understanding God and our relationship with Him, then we are no better than cats and dogs. Cats and dogs cannot be educated about God, but a human being can be educated. That is the distinction between animals and man. But modern education is keeping them in ignorance about God, so they are no better than cats and dogs. And how can you bring peace among cats and dogs? Can you bring in peace calling all the dogs of your city and sit down peacefully? No, that is not possible. So if we keep our citizens like cats and dogs, then how we can expect peace?

George Gullen: We are much in ignorance about those matters, I understand that, and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Complete ignorance, like animals. So the leaders of the society, if they are serious about advancement of human civilization, they must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness; otherwise, they'll be baffled.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: What is the difference? Can you explain? Young..., I have been several times inquired that why young people coming in this movement? What is the reason?

Jayādvaita: The specific qualification of our movement is that Śrīla Prabhupāda is giving information very scientifically in understanding God as the Supreme Person. Understanding not just that God is great, but understanding how God is great. Generally, we understand God is great, but how God is great, what His name is, what His form is, what His world is, there's no specific information.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: In our Bhagavad-gītā there is a verse. Find out:

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
(BG 7.28)

Those who are addicted to sinful life, they cannot understand God. So therefore we have to stop sinful activities. If you keep them in sinful activities, and if you expect that God will be revealed to them, it is not possible.

Scheverman: Yes, we certainly agree, no contradiction on.... I think it's very, very important—we do not see you in competition with our...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no competition. It is a science. Science is to...

Scheverman: We rejoice when we see people coming to the Lord God, wherever it may be and however it may be.

Prabhupāda: Do you have the passage there?

Jayādvaita: Yes. "Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life, whose sinful actions are completely eradicated and who are freed from the duality of delusion, engage themselves in My service with determination."

Scheverman: Yes, we too see sin as an obstacle to communication and relationship with the Lord God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Read the purport.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So, here in this Bhagavad-gītā, it is ordered that the human society must be divided into four divisions, and they should cooperate for understanding God. Just like in our body there is the head, there is the arm, there is the belly and there is the leg. So they are all cooperating for maintaining the body. Although head is very important than the leg, but leg is also required. Simply head will not be able to keep the body in good condition.

Scheverman: Yes, our Saint Paul uses that very imagery in his Epistle to the Corinthians, Tenth Chapter. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is mentioned in this book. So head means first-class intelligent. A class of men.

Kern: How about people who aren't first-class intelligence, people, as you mentioned, the foolish. What message...?

Prabhupāda: No, they should be trained up. The foolish man.... Just like a foolish child can be trained up to be very nicely educated to pass M.A. examination. Child is..., all children are foolish. That is accepted. But by training him, we can make him the first-class intelligent man.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Because my..., it is fact, it is not a bogus thing. It is not some imagination, "By meditation you become God." We do not bluff like that. We give education, scientific education. The books are there. You'll find this Bhagavad-gītā... Have you read ever? No. Here, how to understand God and myself, my relationship. There is no such thing that "You sit down fifteen minutes and you become God." There is no such bogus thing. It is science.

Devotee (1): I think she was asking also why there are so many young people, why so many young are attracted.

Prabhupāda: Young, they are receptive, and another side is that in the Western countries, your younger generation, they have seen that their father and grandfather are not happy. Is it not a fact? So they are trying to find out something where they will find happiness. As such, they go to so many swamis and yogis who come from India. But there also they are frustrated. But here they are finding the real substance. That you can ask any one of them, they will explain how they have come.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much for your coming. Now my request is that you take up this movement. It is actually a great contribution to the human society. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Those who are leaders of the society, if they take it, it is easily understood and easily distributed. So there is no question of sectarian thought. It is the necessity of the human society to understand God. The other day in Detroit, two father priests came to see me. I also requested that we require a set of first-class men that is not there at the present moment. There is no head. They are thinking simply arms wanted, defense, and fight amongst themselves. That's all. Everyone is thinking simply arms wanted. And what they will do with the arms? Fight between themselves, that's all. So one asura was given one thousand hands by Lord Śiva. But he could not find any enemy. So he was fighting with hills and mountains and making him smashed. So he came to Lord Śiva: "Sir, you have given me one thousand hands, but there is no enemy for me. I cannot fight." So Śiva said, "Yes, you just wait for the day when your enemy will come who will smash you into pieces." (laughs) So we are simply equipping with arms and finding out to whom we'll fight. That is going on. So everyone is manufacturing the atomic weapons. So there must be some fight, so that all the nations will be ruined. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is, if you want to purchase something, you must know where to purchase. Otherwise, you may be cheated. You, generally, you ask your friend that "I want to purchase some diamond, so can you give me some reliable address where I can go and purchase?" Generally, people do that. So you have to do that. If you want to purchase, you must know the preliminary understanding where diamond can be purchased. And if you are not aware of it, you may be cheated. That preliminary knowledge you must have. That means best thing is, those who are dealing with diamonds, you go there. Just like if anyone is inquisitive to understand God, so best thing is those who are dealing with God only, they have no other business. Then you go there. That is the intelligent. Why should you go to a cheater? This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is especially distributing knowledge about God. So why do they not come here and inquire? First thing is, unless one is inquisitive to understand God, or Absolute Truth, he has no necessity of guru. But if he is actually serious, then he must go to a person where the dealing is only God, that's all. Just like ordinarily, if anyone wants to purchase some share of company, he goes to the share market and he sees the price of different shares, and he selects.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the proper treatment. (laughter)

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one common philosophy also held by a lot of religious groups that God can be understood directly from within, and that no guru or spiritual master is necessary. If I desire to approach God, and if He's all-powerful, He can instruct me from within. They feel like this. Therefore they dispute our claim that we understand God in a different way, that you need a genuine spiritual master. And yet when we approach them, one man will say he has God within his heart and he understands God in this way, and another man is receiving instruction from God from within the heart, and yet he's saying another thing.

Prabhupāda: So?

Devotee (2): Yet, they continue to claim like that, so...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, when God teaches Arjuna... His realization from within should be the same as Kṛṣṇa is teaching to Arjuna. It should be confirmed by śāstra.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was saying that these people say "God is instructing me from within," but they all have different philosophies.

Prabhupāda: But he's a rascal, and who accepts him, he's a rascal. How do you think that God is speaking to him? How do you accept it? How do you accept that God is speaking to him?

Devotee (2): Well, I don't accept it.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So these people, these mahājanas, they know what is the principles of religion. Religion means bhagavata-dharma, to understand God and our relationship with God. That is religion. You may call it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, but real religion is that which teaches how to love God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). If by following the religious system, you come to the platform of loving God, then your religious system is perfect. Otherwise it is a simply waste of time, bogus religion, without conception of God. So unless one understands what is God and what He says, and we have to abide by that order, then we are religious and there is religion and there is God, there is everything complete.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this.... That is not religion. Then śrama eva hi kevalam. Your going to the temple and church and everything is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Because you do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion. So in order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept in the beginning Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education. There is somebody supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme," you may say, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is Indian." "No. He is God. Just like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe. But that does not mean the sun is different. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, although appeared in India, now He has come to Western countries, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand whether Kṛṣṇa is not God or God. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If you have got intelligence to understand what is God, then try to understand. But He is God undoubtedly. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Then everyone comes on the same platform, the religious platform, one religion, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Kṛṣṇa. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Mohammedan, and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Pradyumna: Then... You said we must know God before we can love Him. So that means devotional service is preceded by knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes, that is the process in the Bhagavad-gītā. There are 18 chapters. The whole 18 chapters is the education how to know God. And when Arjuna completely in awareness he accepted, "Kṛṣṇa, You are paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12)," that is understanding. Then surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Unless you know God, how you'll surrender? If some third class man comes, "You surrender unto me." Will you do that? Why shall I surrender to him? You must know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." The 18th Chapter is described to know God, and then Kṛṣṇa proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna did it, "Yes." So without knowing, how you can surrender? Know God. Then you surrender. Otherwise how, blindly, you can surrender? That is not possible. So this is the science how to know God, Bhagavad-gītā. The preliminary. If you want to know more, then read Bhāgavatam. And if you are in intense love with God, then next, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, how the intensification can be more intensified. That is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary book to understand God and surrender. And from the surrendering point, further progress, that is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And when the love is intense, to make it more intensified, that is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mad after God. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. "I find everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa." That is the supreme ecstasy.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Deyani: But this paradox which is existing mostly in Vedas terms, that the form of the God is neti neti, and they say that whichever people like Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, they call it, is a...

Prabhupāda: They say! What they say, they have no value. Because if it is a fact that one can understand God through bhakti, so whatever bhakta says, that is value. What a nonsense says, it has no value. It has no value. "They say." First of all, you have to think what they are. Are they speculator or bhakta? Just like beginning of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa said bhakto 'si, "I am talking to you Bhagavad-gītā because you are My bhakta." So it is the subject matter..., bhagavān is the subject matter for the bhakta, not for others. Others, they will speculate only. They will never understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Not a great, the great power. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more greater power than Him. That is His position.

Guest (2): My point is, sometimes this, a difference comes in this thing. Suppose a man of other religion says, okay...

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not question of religion. It is a question of God. God is great. That is accepted by all religions. So if Kṛṣṇa is great, then He is God. Where is the argument?

Guest (2): Then they didn't come, just like you stated, that...

Prabhupāda: Then you have to study Kṛṣṇa, that where is the great, the only great. Then you'll understand. God is great, there is... No religion will differ in this connection. But if find that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the greatest," then you have to accept. There is no other argument. So I'll take a little time go to shower. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees and guests offer obeisances)

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda is coming back in about five minutes, he's just going to the bathroom. (break) (Prabhupāda returns) ...original Back to Godhead.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We got it from the Library of Congress.

Prabhupāda: So God is great. Now we have to analyze what is the greatness. A man is supposed to be great when he is very rich. A man is supposed to be great when he is very wise, man of knowledge, strength, reputation. So item by item, you analyze and see, you'll see Kṛṣṇa is the greatest.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
(SB 1.2.13)

Everyone is engaged in his occupational duties. Everyone is engaged. Generally according to Vedic civilization, the society is divided into eight divisions. Varṇāśrama-dharma it is called-four varṇas and four āśramas. Materially, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And spiritually, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. These eight divisions. So according to these eight divisions, everyone has an occupational duty. So what is the duty and how the duty is perfected? That is hari-toṣaṇam, to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That people do not know. Especially at the present moment, they do not know who is Hari and they do not know how to please Him. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that they do not care to know who is God and how to satisfy Him. That is the defect. The life is meant for, human life, for satisfying God. That is going on under religious system, and the Vedic civilization is called varṇāśrama-dharma. Dharma is not a kind of faith, religion is not a kind of faith, but it is a duty, varṇāśrama-dharma. So that duty we are forgetting. And therefore we are coming to the level of animals. Because the cats and dogs, they have no duty-animal. But human being has an obligation, a duty to understand God and to satisfy Him. That is human life. Without this knowledge, without this performance of duty, human life is on the level of animals. There are many other verses in this connection. Where are others? They are not present here?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Venkateshvara? So by evolutionary process we come to this human form of life. It is a chance to understand the value of life, to understand God and our relationship with God, and if we are missing this opportunity, that's a great loss. Then you again become in another form of life. That is sure. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body, and if we are not prepared, what kind of body we are going to get next life, then we remain like animals. The animal does not know. And human life, if you are missing this important point, that "I am going to change this body, and what kind of body I'm going to get?" if I do not know, then what is the difference between me and the animal?

Dr. Sharma: Perhaps you can comment on the fact that in the movement, the Kṛṣṇa people, not only the sannyāsīs, but also the common working man, his karma is karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. He also...

Prabhupāda: This is karma. Karma means according to that division, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Karma means activity. There must be some prescribed activity. Just like you are professor, you have got your prescribed activities. He's the minister of ambassador's, he has got prescribed activities.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sharma: You are so very kind you have given us the temple, and these devotees are such saints.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for this purpose. People may come, see God, then you can think of God. There is no difficulty. If you see something, you think of it. That is man-manā bhava. And if you regularly do it then you become a devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. And when you come to the temple you worship Him. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Worshiping means give and take. Take blessings and offer little fruit or little flower. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. And if you cannot do anything, just offer your obeisances. Very simple thing. Even the child can perform it. But they will not do it. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why does he not do it? That is explained. Because unless one is sinful, duṣkṛtina... He has got merit, but he's utilizing his merit for sinful activities. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious, but duṣkṛti, he has got merit, intelligence, but he's utilizing merit and intelligence for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal. He knows everything except God. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. The human life is meant for this purpose, to understand God. But he does not. Therefore we say narādhama, lowest of mankind. "But he is very educated." māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. He is so-called educated. Actually, he is not educated, because he does not know what is God. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The basic principle is atheistic attitude. So these class of men will never offer obeisances or surrender to God.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Perfection of knowledge means to understand God. That is perfection of knowledge. Otherwise, it is imperfect knowledge. Therefore it is called Vedānta. Veda means knowledge. (more people enter)

Vṛṣākapi: This is Bill Sauer. He wrote this book, The Fourth Kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Fourth kingdom? What is the idea?

Vṛṣākapi: The idea is that the goal of life should be to...

Bill Sauer: To put people on other planets.

Vṛṣākapi: Put people on other planets, so that the race can survive.

Bill Sauer: So that all of life can survive.

Vṛṣākapi: So that all of life can survive.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
(BG 9.25)

If you want to transfer yourself to other planetary system, you can go. You can go to the higher planetary system, which is resided by the demigods, devas, yānti deva-vratā devān; and you can go to other planets, Pitṛloka; or you can remain here as you like; and you can go to the planet where God is there. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So this human life, you can make your selection. After all, you have to change your body, that is compulsory. Nobody can remain here with this body, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The material civilization is the jāgrati for the materialistic person. But those who are spiritually enlightened, they think that these persons are sleeping. They got the opportunity of understanding God, and without understanding God, they are simply busy with the material body and its comfort and working hard day and night, and missing the point. And whereas the materialistic persons, they see these Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they are wasting their time by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and they are doing nothing. Just the opposite business. These people are seeing the materialistic persons, they are sleeping, not enlightened to the spiritual life; and these materialistic persons, they are seeing that these people, under some fictitious idea, they are spoiling their life without enjoying material facilities. Just the opposite.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: So make a magazine to expose this. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca (SB 1.5.22), you, by your knowledge, you describe the glories of the Lord, then you are my guru. This is our... If they say "Why do you bother about God?" that is the business of human being. A human being, he is given the chance to understand God, and you people are stopping, putting stumbling block in his understanding of God. You're the greatest miscreant. I have got a chance to get one million dollars, and if you check it, I cannot get it, how much mischievous you are for me. Is it not? What do you think?

Rūpānuga: Yes, they are stopping it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got chance to get from a friend one million dollars, and he's ready, and if somebody checks it, that I may not get that one million dollars, then he's the greatest enemy.

Rūpānuga: They are stopping the benefit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the human life is meant for understanding God, and these rascals by all dead theories, they are stopping to understand God.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it. Because one has gone to higher university, the previous education, "two plus two," has changed, it is not that. But as a Christian you understand God is great, "two plus two," but how He is great, that you have to learn in the Vedas. That is real education. Because you do not know how He is great, therefore you do so many sinful activities. Otherwise, how it is possible to maintain slaughterhouse? Christian doctrine says "Thou shall not kill." But he does not understand; therefore his business has become to kill only. This is the defect. Why you are disobeying the orders of Christ, "Thou shall not kill"? Because you do not understand him properly.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: In order to understand God it is a great science.

Interviewer: Do you need to be involved in the Kṛṣṇa movement to be God conscious?

Prabhupāda: You may take part in the movement or not but he must know the science. Movement is preaching...

Interviewer: You mean the Bhagavad-gītā, he must know that or what?

Prabhupāda: Not Bhagavad-gītā or anything, but he must... Just like a book, mathematics, it may be written by different men, but one must be a mathematician.

Interviewer: I think what Bali was saying is that if a Kṛṣṇa consciousness member were running for an office then you would get out and vote for him. That he would be God conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: God says like that, that "Anyone who understands Me..." Because one cannot understand God with material speculation; that is not possible. When he comes onto the spiritual platform, then he gets the required brain to understand what is God, and if he understands God, what He is, then he does not get any more this material body, he goes back to home.

Mike Robinson: And then he is with God forever.

Prabhupāda: Then he lives eternally, he lives eternally, no more change of body.

Mike Robinson: I see. Now, we've had two readings from your scriptures. Where did these scriptures comes from? Can you explain that briefly?

Prabhupāda: This is coming from Vedic literature, which is eternal. That is also eternal. But when there is creation, this creation, material creation, anything, material creation.... Just like this microphone is a material creation. So how to deal with it, there is some literature. Is it not?

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhūgarbha: He says just like Vaiṣṇavism is also coherent, but one has to study very deeply. Otherwise, one cannot see it. He said if we examine all the religions and find out the axiomatic truths of every religion, we'll see how they are all coherent.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is that religion means to understand God. If one does not understand God, then his religion is still defective. Religion means to understand God. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje ahaituky apratihatā (SB 1.2.6). When you understand God and your relationship with God, then it is perfection of religion.

Bhūgarbha: He said that he feels very thankful that you've given him such a long darśana. He's very happy that you've given so much enlightenment in many subjects. He's just passing through with his daughter. He'd like to stay tomorrow to see the installation of the Deities, but he has to go to a Tibetan temple in the south of France. On Saturday he has to be there, so he has to drive, and he said that he's found the Tibetans are also very good devotees.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: Although He possesses so many things, He is renounced. Just like this universe is the property of God, but He has given to you, all the living entities. "Now you wanted to enjoy, enjoy it to your best capacity." He doesn't interfere. "All right, you go on." And we are trying to enjoy this material world to our best capacity. Just like in Iran, you are trying to enjoy by exploiting the oil. Similarly, somebody is exploiting. It is all God's property. He doesn't interfere. "All right, enjoy." This is renouncement. His property, He does not come to interfere. God knows how this universe is made. So many big, big scientists, they are trying to understand what is the constitution, how this universe is made, how it is created. Nobody knows, but He knows. Just like you have got this body, I have got this body, but we do not know everything of this body. I do not know how many hairs are there. Is it not? So, so many things. I am eating, and it is transformed into blood, and it is directed towards brain, towards other parts of the body and we are working very strong, but we do not know how things are happening. Although I am claiming I am this body, I am my body. But God knows every particular, any... anvayād itarataḥ. How the stone is made, He knows. How this flower is colored, He knows. That is called wise, wisdom. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows. That is God. He is the possessor of all wealth, all knowledge, all beauty, all strength, all influence. In this way you have to understand God.
Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The more you know about these things.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You must inquire.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, very good. Then is bigger than you. Very good. There is a verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa ihā ha-ite kṛṣṇe (CC Adi 2.117). To know, we have got limited knowledge, we cannot understand full what is God, but still we must try to understand what is God. This is the general definition of God. Suppose you take one item, God is rich, richest. Try to understand how He is richest, what is the topmost idea of all richness. Whether God possesses that richness. He possesses, but we do not understand. In this way we have to study, and all the saintly person have studied Kṛṣṇa, about these six things. They have analyzed the characters and symptoms and they have found īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Not blindly, but studying thoroughly about these qualities of God, they have decided īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So you have to study God. Not that we accept God anybody and anything, no. Siddhānta baliyā citte nā kara alasa. Don't be lazy to understand God. The more you understand, the more you become a devotee.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, there must be practical display.

Ali: Practical display.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply understanding will not do. That is not love, that is appreciation.

Ali: How can I be practical about something without understanding that thing, because I...

Prabhupāda: Understanding, guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. You try to understand God, and He'll explain what He is. You try to understand.

Ali: But I have been trained through intellect, trying to discern things the way that intellect functions. And I don't have spiritual training.

Prabhupāda: That training is given here, spiritual training.

Ali: And therefore, how am I to understand?

Prabhupāda: To understand, you have to take the training, spiritual training. You have to understand the words which God wants to let you know about Him. These are spiritual training. Spiritual training means first of all you must have little faith that "I shall be intimately related with God." Unless you have got this faith, there is no question of spiritual training. If you simply remain satisfied, "God is great, let Him remain at His home, let me remain at my home," that is not love. You must be eager to know God more and more intimately. Then the next stage is how to know about God unless you associate with persons who are simply busy in God's business. They have no other business.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: These are the different stages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example, just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything. But when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually, there will be no more material activity. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. That is the process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Is it necessary to get to know the true self before knowing God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God means spirit, supreme spirit. If you cannot understand what is spirit, then how you'll understand God? You must know what is spirit, what is matter, and when we have little understanding of the spirit, then we can make progress spiritually.

Ali: How does one get to know the true spirit?

Prabhupāda: By knowledge, by knowledge. Just like you are talking. How you are talking? Because the spirit soul is there within you. As soon as it is gone, you cannot talk. Your this body and everything will remain, but you cannot talk, you cannot understand, everything is finished. So this is matter. Body is matter, and the force which is helping you to talk, that is spirit. Now you have to understand it thoroughly.

Ali: Yes, I'm aware of that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Officially, God, God, God, but result is dog. Love is there, love is... That is natural. I want to love. Everyone wants to love. But the, unless he loves God, he'll never be happy. So simply talking of love, and if the love is simply transferred to dog, then where is the love of God? So such kind of talking of called śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time and energy. You must practically come to the platform how to love God. So it is a great science, and it is available for everyone to understand and act. It is a great science, one can take advantage. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not a sectarian religious movement, no. It is a science, how to understand God, how to love Him.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Veda means the book of knowledge. So any book of knowledge which gives you direction how to understand God and how to love Him, that is perfect.

Ali: But this knowledge cannot be attained unless we are aware of the spiritual.

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise... Any knowledge you have to acquire, either from the Supersoul within your self or His representative outside, you have to learn it.

Ali: Why have we chosen this? This seems so irrelevant...

Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting there is God, I must offer. Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say go to the temple and see God. And this Christian, go to the church and offer... The subject matter is the same—accept God.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then when you are purified, you'll understand what is God, what God wants you to do, what is your relationship with God, so on, so on, so on.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And other devotees of God, you will understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To understand God means to understand everything.

Ali: Because everything is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is Vedic instruction. If you simply understand God, then you understand everything. Therefore God says janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). "If anyone understands Me factually, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then after giving up this body, he's not going to accept any more material body. He comes to Me." So simply try to understand God. And that is possible simply by chanting the holy name of God. Very easy. It doesn't matter. Either you are Iranian or Indian or, chant the name of, holy name of God. I think there should (not) be any objection for this movement. Eh? What do you think? That's all. We are simply pleading, "My dear sir, please chant the holy name of God." Who will have any objection? Nobody will have any. Do it. There is no confusion. If you are confused, chant the holy name of God, you'll be out of confusion. Tell them like that. Everyone should join with us and preach this cult. This is not a cult, this is a science, that you chant the holy name of God, that's all. You have seen that house? Dayānanda, no, was with you? Dayānanda?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on paramparā. The paramparā is that God's instructions should be distributed. Evaṁ paramparā. But there is no followers of God's instruction. Therefore the fool's, rascal's paramparā is there. The father is a rogue and the son is rogue. The grandson is a rogue. What is wrong? The paramparā is rogue. And if they follow God's paramparā, then everything is all right. In the beginning, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "I said." That is perfect instruction. God is all perfect, He is speaking. Now you follow that speaking, then you become perfect. And if you follow Satan, then you become a rogue, thief. The difficulty is they are not following the words of God. And religion means the words of God. It doesn't matter what kind of religion it is. If they actually follow the words of God, they become good. Just like in the Ten Commandments, the good instructions are there. So what is the wrong there? You follow, you become a good man. Similarly, in Koran also, there are good instruction. You follow, you become a good man. After all, religion means to try to understand God. So if you sincerely want to understand God and follow His instruction, any religion, it doesn't matter, you become a good man. Comparatively, according to the time, circumstances may be... Just like, who told me? You told me that they cut throat of the lamb. There is a... Suppose that the blood goes to the Mecca side, still there is sense of God. A sense of God. Similarly, if they follow strictly the words of God, so everything is all right.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nandarāṇī?

Nandarāṇī: The man who is giving the father's what?

Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your father's money, you do not know. One friend is trying to hide that money, another friend is trying to give you that money. So who is better friend?

Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving or trying to give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Similarly, a human being has got the right to understand God. So one party is denying, the another party is trying to give you. So who is better friend?

Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving you the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are the best friend of the whole world because we are trying to give him the rightful position. Others are misleading. They are enemies, they are not friend. In the name of friends, they are enemies.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving you the knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are the best friend of the whole world because we are trying to give him the rightful position. Others are misleading. They are enemies, they are not friend. In the name of friends, they are enemies.

vāñchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca
kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo
vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ

(I offer my respectful obeisances unto all the Vaiṣṇava devotees of the Lord. They can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and they are full of compassion for the fallen souls.)

Therefore Vaiṣṇava is so big. One has got the right to understand God and become perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead and solve all problems. That is being denied, this rascal civilization.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So he is creating problem. Still, Kṛṣṇa coming, that "You have created simply problems. What you have gained? Better give up this all nonsense, come to Me." This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are intelligent, they are taking up. And those who are still remaining rascal, they are going on. That is our choice, if we want to be intelligent or rascal. Practically. What we have gained by this so-called material advancement? They have created problem, different problems. That's all. But still, we think that it is progress. And this is going on. Without God's sanction you cannot do anything, that's a fact. But what kind of sanction it is, that you have to understand. God is creator, God is giving sanction, everything is God. Otherwise how He is God? But He has to do. There is a story like that, that the thief is praying to God, "My Lord, give me the chance I can make some stealing in that house." And the householder also praying to God, "My Lord, please save my house, my things may not be stolen." Now God has to adjust, God has to please the thief and the householder. And both of them are prayers. So God has so intelligence, He can do that. He can give the sanction to the thief and He can give protection to the householder. That is God's position. Because both of them prayers, praying, "Give me the facility." And īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He is situated in everyone's heart and there are so many petitions, and He has to deal with them. That is God. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:

śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
aikāntikī harer bhaktir
utpātāyaiva kalpate
(Brs. 1.2.101)

Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture, śruti-pramāṇa. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, śruti-pramāṇa. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with śruti-pramāṇa. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give śruti-pramāṇa. This is the example.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated." Similarly, this animal life, eating, sleeping, mating, this is already there. No. We say, "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.

Hari-śauri: Simply ignorance.

Prabhupāda: When the animal enjoy sex, they know which part of the body has to be used.

Hari-śauri: They don't have to be taught.

Prabhupāda: There is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Religion you may have. Religion means to try to understand God. Any religion—you take Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion—there is little attempt to understand God. So any religion which gives you knowledge of God and you understand what is relation with God, that is perfect religion. We have no quarrel.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you think if all men, let's say, all the religions could try to come together...

Prabhupāda: Religion means to understand God and to follow God's order. That is religion. Just like government and government law. So if the citizen understands what is the law of the government and abides by it, then he's a good citizen. Similarly, any person who understands God and abides by the order of God, then he is religious. Why do you stand? You may be Christian; I may be Hindu; he may be Mohammedan. It doesn't matter. Everyone should understand God and the relationship with God and act accordingly. Then it is perfect religion. And if there is no conception of God, no carrying out order of the God, that is not religion. That is cheating. But generally they do not accept God—still, he is stamping himself that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian." He has no idea what is God, how to abide by His order, and they are fighting that "I am Christian and you are Hindu. Therefore we must fight." This is going on. Nobody understands what is God. Pseudo religion. Practically there is no religion. If there is no government—you make your law; I make my law—then how there will be peace? That is the position. They do not understand what is God, and "I am Christian" or "Hindu" or "Mohammedan, so let us fight." That's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Hindu religion is a vague term. It is a vague term. It is not clear. It is not clear. Real term is, it is called, Vedic principle. Vedic principle. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: Vedic knowledge means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). So anyone who tries to understand God, he is in the Vedic line. Veda means knowledge, so as you get the stock of knowledge, that is called Vedas. But as soon as we say Vedas, they think it is Hindu. Mathematics is a science. So any scientific man will accept mathematics. Where is the question of Hindu mathematics? Gold is gold. If it is in the hand of Hindu, it is Hindu gold? Hindu, Muslim gold? Gold is gold. When we give the Vedic knowledge, they think it is Hindu idea.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Does it appear also in, let's say, Christianity, in Muslim, Mohammedanism?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say that every religion, there is an attempt to understand God. Why do they not understand God, what is God? Then everything will be solved. But they are decrying, "There is no God. God is dead," and "There is no need of God, now we have got science." In every step they are trying to kill God. That's all.

Dr. Kneupper: That's true of certain people, but there are also many...

Prabhupāda: Majority, they do not understand what is God.

Dr. Kneupper: There are many sincere seekers, I think, in Christians and Moslems. At least I have met.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be. There must be some sincere men. That can be admitted. But still the sincere man also does not understand clearly what is the meaning of God. "I believe in God." "I believe in God," they say. Just like in America they say, "We trust in God." But what is God, he does not know. So what is the meaning of this, "I trust in God"? That is a phobia.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: I would... Only with great difficulty, it seems to me.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is... You cannot deny. But they foolishly deny it. Therefore they are rascals. So how you can convince the rascals the right way? If you give me a dozen of dogs, can I convince him that what is God?

Dr. Kneupper: Hardly. They have no capacity to understand.

Prabhupāda: But they have no capacity. The modern civilization, we are creating dogs and hogs, so how they will understand God?

Dr. Kneupper: Do you think there will always be a few who understand?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Unless one... But if there is a class of men, ideal, who understands God, then people will follow. We require one moon. Then the darkness will be dissipated. But if in the millions of stars, what is the use? So they are creating millions of rascals, not one sane man, the modern civilization, the so-called philosophers, so-called scientists. Don't mind. This is the fact.

Dr. Kneupper: Do you basically reject the modern civilization?

Prabhupāda: No, no. I say they are being foolishly trained.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Some must be there. There is no doubt about it. But they are so in minority. Who will hear about them? "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." The whole world is rascal. If somebody is intelligent, who cares for him? Just like people laugh at me that I am talking of God. I am not only talking. I am writing so many books. My only endeavor is to understand God, that's all. There is no sectarian. And I am selling my books all over the world. So not that everyone is foolish. They're trying to understand my presentation, big, big scholars, big, big philosophers. Yes.

Dr. Kneupper: We have many of them in our library...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is knowledge. If people kindly take it everything will be solved. But they have stubbornly denied, "No God." And I am stubbornly fighting, "Yes, there is God." That is the... Now the whole America is combining to fight against me, opposition, that "This man is brainwashing, controlling the mind, and our children are kidnapped." They are bringing these charges against us. Just like you have come. Have I kidnapped you?

Dr. Kneupper: Oh, no.

Prabhupāda: But these rascals say that I have kidnapped their children.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Very simple thing, that you are part and parcel of God. God is eternal. So if you understand God, then you become eternal. Just like your father is very rich man, but you have left your father. You are loitering in the street. But as soon as you understand your father, "Oh, I am the son of such and such person. He is so rich! Oh, I haven't got any necessity." Then you become rich. Go back home, back to Godhead. Mām eti. "He comes to Me." Someone is there. You must know your father, and you must go back to father. Then there is no question of suffering. Very simple thing. Now what is the purport?

Girirāja: Purport. "The Lord's descent from His transcendental abode is already explained in the 6th verse. One who can understand the truth of the appearance of the Personality of Godhead is already liberated from material bondage."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is already liberated. When one understands Kṛṣṇa properly. Then.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: He says everything but because we are foolish we do not hear Him. That is the difficulty.

Mr. Malhotra: We don't understand Him.

Prabhupāda: No, we understand. But we do not accept it. What is the difficulty to understand? God is superior. Everyone knows it. But I will not accept, he will not accept. Unless one is superior, how He can be God? (break) ...sevayā. Therefore you have to find out somebody who knows Him. Otherwise you will be in darkness. (break)

Mr. Malhotra: (Hindi) Over bridge. But where we are going, Ambleswar (?), from there Kṛṣṇā-nadī starts.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Kṛṣṇā-nadī is for us.

Mr. Malhotra: From Ambleswar. Then there is old, old mandira, very old mandira, temple, there are five nadīs are coming.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Kaumuda, Kāverī...

Mr. Malhotra: Kṛṣṇā, Kāverī, Veṇā, five rivers flow from there. We will go there, tomorrow morning we'll go. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...just now. In the morning it was little cold. Now it is very pleasing.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That is there.

Mr. Malhotra: Always must be there. The ratio may be different.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Malhotra: Bad and good, mātra may be different.

Prabhupāda: But India is especially meant for understanding God. That is India's... Just like this place, such a nice place, automatically you'll remember God.

Mr. Malhotra: You will like this place, this Panchakini, (?) where we are going now. A wonderful peaceful place, very peaceful. The atmosphere... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...live peacefully, save time, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is my mission.

Mr. Malhotra: The requirement of every human being is...

Prabhupāda: Very simple.

Mr. Malhotra: Very simple. But all these, you know these added added, added.

Prabhupāda: That is asurika. To increase artificially necessities of life. And become entangled.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead, simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani (BG 9.3). Who can understand this? (Hindi) to return (Hindi) to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. (Hindi) If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death. Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar (pig) position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that. In the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar (Hindi) There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my, this suar?" (laughter)

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So this starvation point, we take it as blessing. People generally question that "How God is unfavorable to somebody and favorable to...?" That is foolishness. God is good, but that we do not know. Because we are less intelligent, we think that "One man is in starvation; therefore God is not good." That is our fault. We are not good. We do not understand God. But a Vaiṣṇava says, "Oh, it is blessing." And if he takes like that, then the result is mukti-pade sa dayā-bhāk. His mukti is guaranteed. In any circumstances, if somebody takes God as good, then his mukti is guaranteed. And if he blames God—"Oh, He has put me into starvation"—then he has to suffer. This is the common argument sometimes we meet, "Oh, why God has made somebody so rich and somebody some poor? He is unjust." That is foolishness. God cannot be... He's just, always just. That is God. So unless we have got that firm conviction, then we cannot become devotee.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: You have already defined violence as "Anything which does not save a man from repeated birth and death, that is violence."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Violence, I take it in this way, that you have got right to possess this. If I do not allow you to possess, that is violent. Somehow or other, I check it, and that is violence.

Hari-śauri: Yes. We have a natural right to understand God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. There is natural right, and they are checking. That is violence. To check one from his rightful position is violence. That is called hiṁsā, that... Kṛṣṇa therefore says, amānitvam adambitvam ahiṁsā. You should not check anybody from his natural advancement, spiritual life. That is ahiṁsā.

Satsvarūpa: What about the platform of just not killing anyone? Is there any credit to that?

Prabhupāda: You are not killed. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Who kills and who is killed?"

Satsvarūpa: But, say for political reasons, Stalin would kill.

Prabhupāda: No, that is politics, that.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and election—"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization—"brainwash."

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They are dogmatic teachings.

Satsvarūpa: So they take us like that too, another religious explanation.

Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith. It is science. That is the fault. Fanaticism of Christianism, Muhammadanism, has created this godlessness. But Vedic knowledge is not that. It is really knowledge.

Satsvarūpa: And in the beginning, when science began, modern science, the scientists would say something against the Bible that was different than the Bible. Then they would torture him. The church would torture him, this Galileo, big scien... So they point these things out, that the church is not tolerant.

Prabhupāda: That is not our point. We want to understand God through philosophy. "Through philosophy" means logic. Blind faith is not our business. (break) "...such date I have posted. You have got the literature. If you permit me, then I can show some of the books." Then our local representatives advise, "You go and see this gentleman." In this way contact him and leave some book with him, that "You first of all see. Then decide." Very honest business.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: They should be chastised.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be punished. That is the duty of the king. You follow any bona fide religion; you get all protection. But you don't follow; you must be chastised. That is king's duty. A king has no objection whether you are following Christian method or Hindu method. It doesn't matter. But you must have some religion. If you have no religion, then you are animal. You must be chastised. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Religion means you believe in God and love Him. That's all, three words, religion. "You believe in God" means know God, what is God. And love Him. That's all. This is religion. So it doesn't matter whether you understand God through Christian method or Hindu method. But you love God and you abide by the orders of God. Then you are religious. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means, religion means, the words of God. So you must know what is God, and you must know what does He say. Then you are religious. It doesn't matter what it is, Christian and Hindu. Gold is gold. Whether you purchase it from a Muhammadan shop or Hindu shop or Christian shop, it doesn't matter. You must get gold. That's all. So whether you have got God? If you have got some fictitious God, then you must learn what is God. What is that? You do not know God, so you must learn what is God. If you refuse to learn, then you must be punished. And if you know God, then it is all right. If you do not know, then you must learn. If you refuse to learn, must be punished. That's all.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we made an attempt... I made an attempt to show this, that bhakti-yoga is science, but it is a subtle science. But it has...

Prabhupāda: To understand God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It needs to...

Prabhupāda: It is a science. It is the only science by which you can understand God. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It needs to change our thinking. So we approached like this, that...

Prabhupāda: But because they are not accepting the process, they cannot understand what is God. Therefore they are bewildered. This is the only process. So if they take to bhakti-yoga, they will see, "Yes, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Oh, everything is Vās... Kṛṣṇa is the origin." No, they are struggling to know the origin, but because they have not taken the right process, they are bewildered. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). By false ahaṅkāra, egotism, they are rejecting, that "There is no God," and they remain in the darkness. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Birth after birth they remain in darkness. (pause) Mūḍha janmani janmani, birth after birth.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: They were trying to decide what to call the name of this group, something like "Concerned Citizens for the Protection of Hare Kṛṣṇa Devotees," something like that. So some of our own...

Prabhupāda: No, no. "To protect the Human Rights." Keep this name. What is human right? That we can explain. The human right is: here is an opportunity to understand God. So this society is giving that knowledge. If you don't give the human being the right of understanding God, then he's animal. You keep him as animal. The animal doesn't require, neither it is capable of understanding what is God, what is his relationship with God, what is his duty. He cannot understand. It is the only human being who can understand. And if you keep him in ignorance like dogs and hogs, that's a great harm to the human society. He got the opportunity. You don't give him; you withdraw the opportunity. What kind of civilization? By nature's way you have come to the position of understanding why you are suffering, how this material nature is working. "I am eternal. Why I am undergoing birth and death?" If you do not understand this problem, then what is the value of this human life. Eating, sleeping, mating—that is done by the animals. And this modern civilization, keeping them in ignorance, that "Eating, sleeping, better style of eating, and that is advancement. And that is also not better style. Eating meat, keeping slaughterhouse—is that better style of eating?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Animal living.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nice children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good children.

Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of good children?

Prabhupāda: Good children means not these rogues and thieves, but one who can understand God. That is good children.

Mr. Koshi: It is the parents' responsibility.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. These are stated. It is not secret matter. When the father goes to beget child, he has to perform ritualistic ceremonies in the presence of relative, brāhmaṇas. They will understand that "He is going now to beget a child." It is not a secret thing. It is garbhādhāna. And if in a brāhmaṇa family the garbhādhāna-saṁskāra is not observed, then immediately he becomes a śūdra.

Mr. Koshi: What is not a secret thing?

Prabhupāda: Secret... Just like when we go and have sex with wife secretly. It is not secret.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Yadubara: Do you think there should be any sequel to this film? In other words, to carry on the philosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, you have given the evolution of from fish to plant, plant to insect, bird, animal. That can be little elaborately, evolution. Then human being, full consciousness. Now, this is the chance for understanding God. And if they are still kept in darkness like the animals, that's a dangerous civilization. Refusing the opportunity to the humanity. By knowing this, you can get out of this continual evolutionary process. That is anti-material world, Vaikuṇṭha world, where you can actually live. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. He does not take birth, neither dies, and dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is life. That we are wanting. We are seeking after. It is not possible here. Here you have to go through the evolutionary process again and again if you don't take the opportunity for going back to home, back to... Then it is your misfortune. So this civilization keeping people in their unfortunate condition. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). This is opportunity to understand God and go back to Him, but that opportunity is being refused. Therefore he is returning again to the same position of birth and death. From animal to man, from man to..., up and down. But dehāntara, that is very dangerous.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: It is our fault we won't take. A man has fallen in the blind well, and he's crying, "Save me! Save me!" and when somebody comes and gives him a rope—"You catch it. I shall lift you"—but he'll not touch it. Then who can save him? The rope is there, the man is there, and he is crying, but when we request that "You take it," he won't take. Aiye. So how he can be saved? And Kṛṣṇa said, mad-āśrayaḥ. But he'll not take mad-āśrayaḥ. He'll take āśraya of something else. This is the position. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. People are harassed to understand God, whether there is God or not God, who is God. When I first went to America, the theory was going that "God is dead." And what was the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a newspaper...

Prabhupāda: Paper... Yes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When Prabhupāda first did the first public kīrtana, they said that "We thought God is dead, but now we see that Swami Bhaktivedanta has made God alive again."

Prabhupāda: This was the first remark. Then, gradually, these boys joined. They were after God, but they were given to understand that "God is dead.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If you practice muṣṭika, naturally you become very stout and strong. There are many wrestlers. They have got very strong body. But yoga does not mean that. Yoga means to find out the antaryāmī, Paramātmā, within the core of the heart. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This information we get from the śāstra, that God is also situated within the core of the heart of every living... Sarva-bhūtānām. It is not that God is sitting in the core of the heart of the human being and not in the core of the heart of the dogs. He is there also. But the difference is that the dog cannot find out; man can find out. Therefore he is educated, taught about the yoga system so that constantly he can meditate upon antaryāmī, viṣṇu-mūrti. Perhaps you have seen the picture. We have got that picture. But that is the purpose of yoga, not to make the body strong or the mind very powerful. That is automatically done. Aiye. It does not require separate attempt. Just like if you get one thousand of rupees, ten rupees is already there. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you get all perfection. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām. Four kinds of men, catur-vidhā, sukṛtinaḥ. If there is piety on the background, not the rascals or sinful man... Therefore śāstra always recommends to be pious, because a pious man has got the future chance of understanding God.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I have several times stressed that living being is a sample of God. If you study living being, you understand God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually it's very true and also very scientific to propose this simile because life, being nonmaterial...

Prabhupāda: It is Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. But where is the difference? The difference is that eka is so important that He is the source of everything, and He is maintaining this bahūnām. That is... Both of them, quality, the same. But one is maintaining; others are being maintained. One is predominator; others are predominated. That is the difference. Āśraya, viśaya. So therefore when you come to the āśraya, that is perfection.

Pradyumna: We are all viśaya. Every living entity is viśaya, and Kṛṣṇa is the only...

Prabhupāda: Āśraya.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.

Haṁsadūta: Once Lord Buddha, they say, was sitting under a bo tree, and a leaf fell down. He picked it up and he said, "The knowledge I am giving you is like this leaf compared to the tree of knowledge." So I always quote that. They appreciate that, "Oh, yes," that beyond nirvāṇa there is brahma-nirvāṇa, and beyond that there is Paramātmā, and above that there is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is nirvāṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityaj... Parityajya means giving up, and that is nirvāṇa. It requires expert presentation.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?

Guest (2): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like we should... Next time we have a conference here, it should be done in the proper hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got enough place.

Page Title:Understand God (Conv. 1975 - 1977)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:01 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0
No. of Quotes:143