Prabhupāda: "...you, under the direction of Lord Śiva. I worshiped Lord Śiva very successfully, and I prayed from him some sources of my happiness. So he has directed me to see you, that you have got that thing. So please give me that." So Sanātana Gosvāmī said "Well, what can I give you? Oh, all right. Can you find out some stone in that garbage?" There were heaps of garbage, and the man searched out and found out a stone. "Sir, do you mean to say this stone?" "Yes." "So what is this?" "This is touchstone. You take it and touch it to iron. It will become gold." "Oh, you are very ... You're so... Now I shall become the richest man in the world. I shall take heaps of iron and touch with this stone, and it becomes gold." So he, with great joy, he went out and he tried that actually, touching the stone, iron is becoming gold. But he thought that, "Lord Śiva directed that Sanātana Gosvāmī has the greatest benediction, I do not think this stone is greatest benediction because it was placed with garbage." So he came back and appealed to Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Lord Śiva told me you have got something most valuable. I don't think this stone is most valuable.
Under the direction (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa can be served by his own occupation, as I described just now. Or whatever you may be. You may be a potter, you may be a florist, you may be... Whatever you may be, but you can satisfy Kṛṣṇa by his work, by your work. You do not require to qualify yourself with some specific qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, you have to dovetail it under the direction of expert spiritual master, how you can serve. That's all.
Pradyumna: What does that expert mean in the list of qualifications for a devotee? In the list of qualifications of a devotee there is one qualification, expert.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pradyumna: What does that mean in relation to the occupation?
Prabhupāda: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. Kṛṣṇa does not say sit idly. Neither Arjuna was advised like that. Neither... Arjuna wanted to be nonviolent, sit idly. Kṛṣṇa never did so. Kṛṣṇa said, "Oh, you fight. You are kṣatriya. It is your duty." And in order to raise him to that fighting position, this position, He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. So don't think that Kṛṣṇa bhaktas are idle, sitting only. No. That is mistaken idea. Kṛṣṇa bhakta can do anything under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.
Reporter: You are not escapists?
Prabhupāda: No.
Reporter: Maharaja, please go on here helping us. You know, we are (indistinct). (laughter) (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...me that "Your Vaiṣṇavism has killed India." And why? "No, Vaiṣṇava means inactive. They say simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and do nothing." Then "You have not seen a Vaiṣṇava," I told him.
Prabhupāda: Why ecstasy? That is a misconception. It is a material... That spiritual ecstasy is very, very above all these things. First Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the example of Arjuna. Arjuna decided not to fight. But after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, when he became Kṛṣṇa conscious, he fought. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: to act under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Singh: An interesting thing struck me the other day, Swamiji, about the Bhagavad-gītā, that whether Arjuna would have fought or not, the war would nevertheless have taken place.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Dr. Singh: Whether Arjuna fought or not, the war would nevertheless have taken place, because both the armies were there, the conches had been sounded. So Arjuna's decision was not whether there should be war or whether there should not be war. Arjuna's decision was only whether he should fight or he should not fight.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that...
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Śyāmasundara: About austerities. If you don't practice voluntarily austerities, then you must involuntarily practice some austerities.
Prabhupāda: Yes, under the direction of spiritual master. You have no mind to follow austerities, but when you accept a spiritual master you have to carry out the order. That is austerity.
Śyāmasundara: Even if you don't want to practice austerity, you must. You are forced to.
Prabhupāda: No, because... You have got... You have surrendered to your spiritual master. His order is final. So even if you don't like, you have to do it. To please me. Even you don't like. Nobody likes to fast, but spiritual master says, "Today is fasting," so what can be done? (laughter) This is austerity. And disciple means who has voluntarily agreed to be disciplined by the spiritual master. That is austerity. (Loudspeaker in background is very loud.)
Bob: So then a devotee must work for everybody's liberation?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. A devotee must work under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master. Not imitate the best devotee.
Bob: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: Not imitate the best devotee.
Bob: Not, what is that word?
Prabhupāda: Imitate.
Devotees: Imitate, imitate.
Bob: Oh, ācchā, ācchā, I see. Imitate. (pause) (break)
Śyāmasundara: ...you said that sometimes you feel pain, some sickness, due to the sinful activities of your devotees. Is that... Couldn't sometimes disease be that, due to that? Caused by that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Any activities sanctioned in the revealed scriptures and aiming at the satisfaction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are accepted by saintly teachers as the regulative principles of devotional service. If somebody regularly executes such service unto the Personality of Godhead under the direction of a bona fide spiritual master, then gradually he rises to the platform of serving in pure love of God."
Prabhupāda: That nonviolence. Kṛṣṇa is number one violent. (chuckles) Number one. There is no limit of His violence. Just see.
Yadubara: Don't you have... In the material world, sometimes you have to stand up for what you think is right and sometimes use violence?
Prabhupāda: Only satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa is right. All wrong. If Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, that is right. Otherwise everything wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes, right. That's right. That is the fact. That is the fact. So despite my becoming a scientist, I am a subordinate scientist. Our, my scientific research is going on under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Because the experiment which you are making in the laboratory, the ingredients, they are produced from Kṛṣṇa. The mind with which you are working, that is produced by Kṛṣṇa. The direction you are receiving from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore when you prepare something, that is Kṛṣṇa's production. Kṛṣṇa is indirect cause and you are direct cause. The other day while coming on the plane you told me that they are trying to make copy of the brain of...
Devotee: Einstein.
Prabhupāda: Einstein. So still, if you can copy, even if you can copy, you are not the original scientist, because that brain of Einstein is already created. So original creation is God's. So you can imitate. So you are imitator scientist. Is it not?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: True living. Yes. True, just like good citizens...
Guest (2): That's right.
Prabhupāda: Good citizenship means living under the direction of the government. That is good citizenship. Similarly, human life means to live nicely under the direction of God. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand. But the human life, (pause) That first verse: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt (BG 4.1). So what is your explanation of this verse?
Guest (2): You want to explain this into er... Do you want to explain this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt (BG 4.1).
Guest (2): Yes. This actually is explaining the origins of the law, ancient law, that's obeyed by the man. It's the law given from the Vedic literature...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate. So everything should be done—that is called karma-yoga—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is doing. He did not change his position as a fighter, as a warrior. But he acted according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is recognized: bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). "You are My dear friend. You are My devotee." This is the process. So we have to purify. We cannot stop. That is not possible. The progress which is going on, let it go. But let it go, we do not want that, but it has come so far, it is not possible to stop it. But here is the remedy. You can purify it.
Popworth: What means do you suggest for purifying it?
Prabhupāda: The means is that... Our process is that wherever we go, we perform saṅkīrtana, chant the holy name of God. That purifies, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It doesn't matter where it is. Even if we... We can go to the factory. Anywhere. We can go to the hell even. By, but this process, it is a very simple thing, chanting the holy name of the Lord. So what possible objection can there be? Suppose if we go to a motor car factory, and we ask them, "Please give us some chance. We shall chant here the holy name of the Lord." What their, what is the possible objection? You are very thoughtful man. You can say.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many years ago you once gave the example that when the master craftsman is working and he has got an apprentice, when the apprentice works, it is also considered the same quality because he is under the direction of the master.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you are under direction of a perfect teacher, then your conclusion is perfect. The difficulty is that we are following imperfect teachers. Blind men. And what is the benefit of following a blind man? If the man is himself a blind man and if he follows another blind man, what benefit he will get? Both of them will fall into the ditch. That is going on. Just like this rascal Guruji Maharaja. He is a rascal and he is preparing so many rascals. And there are so many others. They are doing the same mischief, and there is no control by the government. The government is rascal. Government does not know who is real, who is imitation. Otherwise they should have checked immediately. But they do not check. They do not know.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body's machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: (BG 18.61) "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has asked the material energy "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants.
Prabhupāda: "Because of My direction." Hetunānena. "On this account." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. "Under My Supreme control." Just like these boys and girls, my students, they are working under my direction. They are individuals, I am also individual. And they have got their independence, to obey or not to obey, but still, they are directed under my supervision. Similarly, this material nature has got individual power. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). But still, yasya icchānurūpam api ceṣṭate sā. That material nature is working under the direction of the Supreme Person. Therefore govindam ādi-puruṣam. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: We call him Baby. He is innocent like a baby.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good qualification. But sometimes babies are misled. (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes, realization comes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Of who we're serving.
Prabhupāda: The disciple serves Kṛṣṇa under the direction of spiritual master. Vidhi-mārga, regulative principles. Vidhi-mārga, rāga-mārga. (break) ...gunarna jata nat krta mukha santi (?). So, I think it is mud.
Satsvarūpa: Here it's getting more and more moist, dew. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...friend, but what is my business? My business is to serve the senses, that's all. Kāmādīnām, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, mada, the six kinds of sense gratification I am doing. This is actual... Just like this man, he is thinking he is very big man, but he's servant of his dog. Is it not? But he is thinking that he is very big man. He does not think that "What is my business? To serve this dog in the morning." He has no sense. Because he has no prescribed duty to serve Kṛṣṇa... He must serve, and therefore he must serve dog. That is his position. But still, he's thinking, "Why these foolish people are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? I am serving the dog. I am very big man." He has become very big man by serving the dog, and we are trying to serve Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "This material nature is working under My direction."
Prabhupāda: This is... Just like the machine is working under the direction of a life, they are... (break) ...not without God. That is this, it has no value. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse. In this yellow book.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: In that one?
Prabhupāda: No, no. In that yellow book. Yes, index.
- idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
- This is science. Idam...
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā...
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Nitāi: "Because material energy, nature, is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of the planning commissions. The atheistic planmakers are described herein by the word duṣkṛtina, or miscreant. Kṛtina means one who has performed meritorious work. The atheistic planmaker is sometimes very intelligent and meritorious also because any gigantic plan, good or bad, must take intelligence to execute. But because the atheist brain is improperly utilized in opposing the plan of the Supreme Lord, the atheistic planmaker is called duṣkṛtina, which indicates that his intelligence and efforts are misdirected. In the Gītā it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction..."
Prabhupāda: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything—they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?
Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Under Kṛṣṇa's plan. Therefore you cannot violate Kṛṣṇa's law. As soon as you violate nature's law, then you have to be punished. (pause)
Guru-kṛpa: Bhagavad-gītā, that prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni...
Prabhupāda: ...guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Yes, and prakṛti is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That means, nature's law means Kṛṣṇa's law or Kṛṣṇa's plan. So what is the Kṛṣṇa's plan? What Kṛṣṇa wants?
Guru-kṛpa: Kṛṣṇa wants every living entity to come back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. This is the plan. If this plan is not executed, then there is suffering. So this human life is given to the living entity for understanding this plan and do the needful. If they do not understand, then they are punished. (break)
Guru-kṛpa: ...today is that because the people have never been given any information what Kṛṣṇa's plan is, either they're too old or too... They're attached. They can't understand anything. That's the majority of the people. Once they get past thirty years old, it's very difficult for them to accept something.
Prabhupāda: That sin you have explained. These are the four principles of sinful life. This can be avoided. Just like these European, American boys. They were also addicted to these sinful activities, but now they have given up, and they are understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. Material life means sinful life. Therefore we have to act materially under regulation. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he has to live under the direction of the physician. Otherwise his sufferings will continue. (break)
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: I'm going to translate piece by piece so I can tell you exactly what he's saying. He's saying that he understands perfectly well that a human being should look for a way for self-control and to control the physical force within him, but there's also another dimension in the human being which is a social dimension which also has to be taken care of.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the social dimension is described, cātur varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Find out this verse. You read.
Prabhupāda: You are well now for distributing books?
Tripurāri: (break) ...these are prabhus from different temples. Some work under the direction of the temple presidents and some work under my direction. And all these devotees distribute at the airports. Mostly big books.
Prabhupāda: And you are all feeling all right? Eh? Is there any difficulty?
Tripurāri: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotees: Increasingly blissful.
Prabhupāda: That is fine. That is wanted. You are expert mṛdaṅga player? I have seen. He is very, very nice.
Tripurāri: Sometimes when we go to the temples they ask us to give class, saṅkīrtana class on book distribution techniques. We tell them that before you can take any techniques, first you must follow the principles and study the books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real technique. Our only technique is to be very devout followers of the rules and regulation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then we have to know this powerful, not only the power. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). In another place, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Durgā is power. Power is in... What kind of power? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka. She can create, she can maintain and she can destroy, so powerful. But this power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva (Bs. 5.44), is working just like shadow. Just like here is shadow. I am moving this hand; the shadow is moving. Shadow is not independently moving. Therefore this gigantic power, material energy, is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "under My superintendence." So we are allured with the power, but who is manipulating this power we do not know. That is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you manufacture your program of enjoyment, then you will be slapped. And if you enjoy according to the direction of the father, then you'll enjoy. This is the... Kṛṣṇa says, "Enjoy life. All right. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. Live peacefully. Always think of Me. Worship Me." That we have prescribed. Come here and think of Kṛṣṇa. And so that is enjoyment. So they don't want. They want liquor. They want illicit sex. They want meat. So therefore they must be slapped. Actually all this whole universe is made for your enjoyment, but enjoy it according to His direction. Then you will enjoy. That is the difference between demigod and demon. The demon wants to enjoy, manufacturing his own way of life. And the demigod, they enjoy better than the demons because under the direction of God.
Prabhupāda: That example is given, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like your dress, when it is useless, you throw it away and take another dress. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya gṛhṇāti naraḥ aparāṇi. You accept another set of dress. Clearly explained. (break) ...also very scientific. Just like according to your last life's desires, you have got this dress, this body. So it is going on, going on, going on. Now you are creating another set of desires in this life. So you require a different dress. Then you begin another satisfaction of your desires. This is going on. Karmāṇa daiva-netreṇa: (SB 3.31.1) by your karma, you are creating a situation. Just like the criminal, he has created a situation; he cannot live anymore outside the jail. "Come on, here." He will go in automatically. So they do not know how nature is working. It is clearly said, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). "Nature is working, and that nature is working," mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), "under My superintendence." Everything is there. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. Jagat, it is changing, always changing. How it is changing? Under the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa.
Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, first, second, third. So even śūdra family, he can learn also. So brahmacārī. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacārī. He is encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties.
Prabhupāda: Contact is working under the direction of God. The individual soul desires, and God arranges to fulfill his desire with the help of prakṛti.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: So when I want to move my hand, when I want to move this hand and so I will to move my hand, actually there has to be God involved in that action. Otherwise the hand won't move.
Prabhupāda: Paralyzed.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Paralyzed.
Prabhupāda: When your hand is paralyzed what you can do?
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Do actually I don't directly do anything with matter. It is all Kṛṣṇa's doing everything with the matter.
Devotee: "Man proposes, God disposes."
Prabhupāda: That how you can know? You are not the director. Director knows how many assistants he requires. You cannot know... You are under the direction. You are not director. (break) ...not a mechanic he cannot understand why there are so many parts in the motor car. He is a fool. He doesn't know. But a mechanic knows that these things are required.
Guru dāsa: If the soul cannot be burnt, why does the desire to be burnt in the material world there? Burnt, drowned...
Svarūpa-damodara: Destroyed.
Prabhupāda: He is not destroyed. When this body cannot work any more... Because this body is a machine. So a machine, if he does not move, then you, have to change to another machine.
Prabhupāda: All right, let him satisfy there. But we have no such experience. We cannot accept his theory. He may be a single man to believe that. But no sane man will believe that. But we have got this answer. Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Prakṛtiḥ, nature, is working under My direction." In the Brahma-saṁhitā: sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvana vibharti... (Bs. 5.44). bhuvanāni durgā, icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Icchānurūpam. The nature is working under the direction of God, Govinda.
Bahulāśva: Now the scientists are studying the atom, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and they agree...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all let us know what they have done. What science they have done. They are proposing all nonsense theories, that nature is producing. So even if you accept nature as supreme, then you are subordinate. You are not independent. You are under... That also I explained. Pṛakrteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra vimu... (BG 3.27). Why you are thinking independent? You are being carried away by the ear, pulling, "Come here." You are thinking there is no birth, but there is birth. Every moment you are having a new life, new birth by the... You can say, "I will not become old man," but prakṛti will not allow you. You must become old man.
Prabhupāda: Foolish thinking has no value. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhya para mana manasas tu parā buddhir (BG 3.42). So thinking should be under the direction of intelligence.
Dr. Patel: Buddhi, buddhimān, and ahaṅkāra, all are the internal apparatus, what you call antaḥ-kāraṇa. They work together in reason. One thing does not act separately from the other, as we know.
Prabhupāda: There are separate arrangement, although they are one.
Dr. Patel: They are the different facets of the same internal organ as a whole.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...set is there, but beyond that mental stage there is intellect. Beyond intellect there is soul.
Dr. Patel: To go beyond intellect for a body conscious ego, the ego must dissolve and find itself to be a jīva, and then he travels further up to find his own identity and his own relation with God. Before, I mean, mind is one, you cannot go beyond it. That is what my conjecture. I may be wrong for all that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He can surrender, and Kṛṣṇa will do everything. You have to act very sincerely under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, and then the war will be successful, as Arjuna did.
Harikeśa: So imperfect activity is a sign of lack of surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa. Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa-pālanam. You work sincerely, devoutly, and have faith that "Kṛṣṇa will save me from all dangers." Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa-pālanam. "I have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Now Kṛṣṇa will give me all protection." This faith, that is the beginning of devotional life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Faith.
Harikeśa: So this faith, is this śraddhā or niṣṭha?
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā. Beginning, śraddhā. Then, when he is advanced, then he becomes fixed up. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is protecting me." (break) ...that here is some goddess Kali, and nobody is living here.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, his question is will one become realized by continually engaging in devotional service under the direction of a bona fide representative of the spiritual master?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: The question is that his service is here in New Vrindaban under Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. Will serving the representative of the spiritual master..., is that as good as serving the spiritual master? Will it get the same result?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think that was the question. No? At least, I understand the question to be: Is service to the Supreme Lord the same as realization of the Absolute Truth?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: That is the Absolute Truth.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is service to the Supreme Lord the same as realization of the Absolute Truth?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Absolute means there is no difference. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's service, same. So discuss it further.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And the scientists are mistaking the effects for the causes? The molecules are working under Kṛṣṇa's direction.
Prabhupāda: Working under the direction, yes, under the direction of the Supersoul. That is stated, mattaḥ, "from Me."
Hari-śauri: Shall I read it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Durgā, we say
- sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
- chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā
- icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.44)
Durgā is all-powerful within this material world, but she is acting under the direction of Govinda. She is not acting independently. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Under My supervision. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority. (break) ...but they go to the supreme person who can give spiritual knowledge. Durgā is not neglected.
Host: With your permission I must thank with the permission of Swamiji, my friends, I welcome you to my humble house. Today, though you are all very, very busy, but you have made it a point to come and listen to Swamiji speak to you theory, lessons, and his belief and faith. It depends how we take it. Because I have faith in him, I have faith in his teachings, that is why, I being a politician, I being a member of Parliament and the legislative assembly, deputy minister and the ambassador, I have requested and begged of him to come to my humble house to spread his knowledge, which he is giving to the other parts of the world. Last time he visited in a very similar manner, we have got a small gathering here.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So, our point is that if he was not on the platform of mokṣa, liberation, why did he waste his time by spoiling himself and for spoiling others? Now he has come to his senses, it is good, but it is to be understood that he simply spoiled his time and spoiled others' career by misleading them. Thus, without being liberated, nobody can guide anyone. That is useless. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you have no eyes, then how can you lead others? If you are blind and they are blind, then what is the use of becoming their leaders? Actually all the so-called leaders and scholars, they are blind themselves and they have become big, big leader. That is the misfortune of the present life. And, therefore, our proposition is you take direction from Kṛṣṇa and His representative. That's all. That will help you. Try to understand this point. Our system, paramparā system, is that I am just like disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. I don't say that I am liberated. I am conditioned. But because I am following the instruction of Bhaktisiddhānta, I'm liberated. This is the distinction between conditioned and liberated. When one is under the direction of a liberated person.
Prabhupāda: Unless guru, how you know? Guru is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot directly meet Kṛṣṇa at the present moment. So this is called vyavasāyātmikā buddhi. If we work under the direction of the representative of Kṛṣṇa, that is perfect. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā **. You are singing daily. Whatever guru has said, take it seriously. Don't manufacture your ideas. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā **.
Indian (1): Just as you have given an example of krodha by Lord Hanumān in burning Laṅkā, are there any such instances where lobha could also be personified Lord Kṛṣṇa's desire?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Just like gopīs. They were always hankering: "When we shall see Kṛṣṇa? When we shall see Kṛṣṇa? When I shall...? When I shall meet?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. "Oh, I see everything vacant without Govinda." This is ecstasy of lobha, to meet Kṛṣṇa. So when you will be strongly hankering after Kṛṣṇa, lobha, greedy, or devotee, then lobha is properly utilized.
Prabhupāda: If they simply understand that all these laws of nature is going on under the direction of God... They are studying the laws of nature, how things are happening. But simply they have to understand that it is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa.
Yogeśvara: Mayādhyakṣeṇa...
Prabhupāda: Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). They are lacking that intelligence. They are finding out that "Things are moving so, mean, accurate. There must be somebody behind it." Do you think like that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: When you see the nature's law is working so accurately, so don't you think that there is some brain behind it?
Prabhupāda: This is the actual... Now, apart from the scriptural injunction, if one comes to the argument, then such kind of father is there in the animal society also. Cats and dogs, they also beget children, but they cannot relieve the child from the cycle of birth and death. And Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you have to see what is the actual distress in this material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So in this life you are my father, and next time I become a cat or dog, so who cares for this father? I get another father. So who knows this law? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). The laws of nature is going on, and everything is happening. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We are getting a type of body according to karma.
- īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati
- bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni
- yantrārūḍhāni māyayā
- (BG 18.61)
This is a yantra. This yantra is, this machine, body, is offered by the material energy under the direction of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So actually they do not know the laws of nature, laws of God. Ignorant. So we are trying to deliver people from this gross ignorance. And they do not know the laws. Naturally they'll think "brainwashed."
Prabhupāda: What is this? Not from our letter given?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "The birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the district Nadia, prepared under the direction of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and by his disciples, His Holiness Surabhīr Abhipālayantam Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur Project architect and director of construction; His Holiness Jayapatākā Swami, ISKCON Māyāpur project president and Governing Body Commissioner; Śrī Patita Pāvana dāsa Brahmacārī, Bhakti Śāstrī, ISKCON Māyāpur; and the editors of Back to Godhead magazine, ISKCON Press, Los Angeles, California."
Prabhupāda: Perfect article.
Patita-pāvana: No, no, Surabhī Mahārāja has asked me to do some press releases for the newspapers.
Prabhupāda: So Surabhī Mahārāja has asked. So you are conducted by Surabhī Mahārāja.
Patita-pāvana: Yes, Prabhupāda. At least I'm trying. If I have acted untimely, I...
Prabhupāda: And this is the result. This is the result, this disastrous article. You do independently when you like under the direction of Surabhī Mahārāja and create disaster.
Patita-pāvana: Well, he asked me to go down there.
Prabhupāda: So now one thing...
Mr. Dwivedi: ...we are working under the direction of our guru.
Prabhupāda: ...can be said in the meantime, how this property...
Mr. Dwivedi: He started all this. He is my guru. He started this, all the activities there. And we were all working under his directions. When we had our, say, our discussion, if he liked, he said, all right. If he did not like, if...
Prabhupāda: And that should be.
Mr. Dwivedi: ...he advised, "It has to be done this way," then no further discussion in the matter. Everybody would carry out what he said.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted.
Mr. Dwivedi: And that is what... So long, at least, I am alive, I want to carry on.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Just like the finger is my part and parcel of the body. It must work according to my desire. Then it is healthy. Otherwise diseased. I am moving this. It is in healthy condition. If it cannot move by some cause, then it is diseased. So when we are working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, that is our healthy stage. Otherwise diseased. I am... I am correct?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya. If a scientist thinks very carefully...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...actually he will be the one who will accept there is God, because we see practically every... In every experiment.
Prabhupāda: You are God—limited. Limited God. You cannot maintain. Therefore you are limited. You can become God within your family, within your office, within your kingdom. You are not Supreme God. To a limited extent you are God. Because you have got the quality of God, so according to your capacity, within limited jurisdiction, you may be God. So dictionary is there. Vedic assertion is there. Logic is there. Science is there. Prove. Then your education will be successful. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpitaḥ.
Prabhupāda: No, just explain it. These were happening by the yogamāyā's manipulations. It is not generally happening, but on account of yogamāyā, it was so happening. Two māyās are working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa: the mahāmāyā, this material world; and yogamāyā, the spiritual world. So this uncommon thing was happening on account of yogamāyā's influence.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-tatra to abhūt)
Prabhupāda: So on account of activity of yogamāyā, the day on which Brahmā stolen, and they could not understand how yogamāyā was working. Uncommon thing happening.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-kintu to nābhūt)
Prabhupāda: So yogamāyā was acting in such a way that even Balarāma could not understand.
| Page Title: | Under the direction (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 01 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=43, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 43 |