Ultimate (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"ultimate"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: ultimate not "ultimate goal" not "ultimate truth" not "ultimate knowledge" not "ultimate source" not "ultimate realization" not "ultimate cause" not "ultimate end" not "ultimate destination" not "ultimate issue" not "ultimate liberation"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: So that principle, which makes things grow, the Īśopaniṣad says, so 'ham asmi: "I am that principle."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Acyutānanda: The Īśopaniṣad says in the ultimate śloka, so 'ham asmi: "I am that."

Prabhupāda: Asmi means "It is my energy. It is my energy."

Acyutānanda: No, it says...

Prabhupāda: If I say that "I am ISKCON," what is the wrong there? Because I have created this; therefore I say, "ISKCON means I. I am ISKCON." So what is the wrong there? It is like that. By energy of Kṛṣṇa, everything has come out. Therefore says, "I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this." Vibhūti-bhinnam. Because everything.... Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything has come from Kṛṣṇa.

Acyutānanda: No, the Īśopaniṣad says that you are that principle. Īśopaniṣad says the principle which is lighting the sun...

Prabhupāda: Yes, a devotee accepts.... That we accept.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: And therefore you have to learn from the guru. And if you directly take, then you remain a fool. Therefore you require a guru. That is the instruction of śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to learn śruti. You have to come to a guru.

Acyutānanda: No, but this is after that. The ultimate conclusion of that Upaniṣad, śruti, the authority, is that you are that same principle.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am the same principle. Nityo nityānām.

Acyutānanda: Well, nothing can be more eternal than another eternal.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is eternal.

Acyutānanda: It is contradictory then. Nityo nityanānāṁ. You cannot say that one thing is more eternal than another thing.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the point. Everyone is eternal.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man: "There are so many things. Doing any social activities?"

Prabhupāda: These things are being done by so many other people, and we are doing something which is ultimate. The hospital gives some medicine when there is some disease, but that does not mean there will be no disease. Can they guarantee that "I give you this medicine—no more disease." We are giving that medicine, that no more disease. That is the best social work. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). We are giving this medicine, that after leaving this body.... So far this body is concerned, somehow or other you pass on. And as soon as you give up this body—tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9)—you'll have no more birth. And if you have no more birth, there will be no more death. And if you have no more birth, then there will be no more disease. This is our prescription. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Not that he is finished. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is our program. So your question is answered or not? Huh? Your question is answered or not? Your question is answered or not?

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Huh. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto: "The mind should be absorbed in My thought," man-manā. That is recommended. Where does He say that "Make your mind vacant and think of nonsense"? He never says. And where does He say that you become silent? He never says.

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

mad-bhakteṣv abhidāsyati

na ca tasmān manusyeṣu

kaścid me priya-kṛttamaḥ

(Bg 18.68)

"Anyone who speaks about this Bhagavad-gītā, he is My dearmost friend," He said. So why one should be silent? Our ultimate aim is how to become dearmost to Kṛṣṇa. And He never says that "You become silent." Why shall I become silent? Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). Rather, He recommends that "You always be engaged in glorifying Me." Where is the "silent"? These are all manufactured by these rascals. So many, meditation, silence—these are not recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Without varṇāśrama-dharma there is no civilization. Yes. They are trying to abolish this under the name of "caste system." It is not caste system. Caste system, or whatever you call, there must be these four division. Not four, eight. This is general, that brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Then, according to the brahminical culture, the spiritual, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. And after sannyāsa, then spiritual life, complete, śuddha-sattva. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So you have to establish varṇāśrama. Varṇāśramācāra. Ācāra. Ācāra. Varṇāśrama ācāra. Yes. Because the aim is... Again we come to the... Just like state affairs going on, but ultimate aim is to keep the government satisfied. Then you'll get everything nicely. Similarly, the supreme government or supreme governor is God. That is your duty, to keep Him satisfied. Then you get all direction, all facilities and life. That is the aim. But these rascals, they do not know what is government or who is the governor. They are doing anything whimsically, and they're punished. Prakṛti is there. Prakṛti is there. Government does not want that you suffer, but you violate the government's law. Therefore you suffer. That these rascals do not understand. They declare, "There is no government." So this is foolishness, ignorance, mūḍha. There is government, he sees, and still he is rascal. He says, "No, no, I don't care for anyone. There is no government." That is atheism; that is hooliganism.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means ultimate success, because this human life is meant for becoming disgusted with this material life: "No more." Material life means to take a body and enjoy this material āhāra-nidrā, sleeping twenty-four hours, eating like elephant, and sex life like a monkey, these animals. This is material life, eating, sleeping, mating, and always afraid of. This is material life. And human life means to take freedom from these four things: no more afraid, no more sex, no more hankering after eating or sleeping. That is success. Everyone... You'll see in the sparrow in the morning. They're enjoying sex. So this is material life: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. And spiritual life means to become free from all this nonsense. That is spiritual life. They do not know what is spiritual life. The whole world, they do not know what is spiritual life. This is spiritual life, to become free from these four abominable things.

Hṛdayānanda: They are trying to increase these four things.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda said, "What should we do with these scientists? They won't accept Kṛṣṇa's knowledge that there is a soul..."

Prabhupāda: They are find..., researching atom. They could not come to the ultimate conclusion. And we say that this atom is energy, but it is inferior, and there is another energy. So they, if they say that "We do not find anything except this atom..."

Acyutānanda: They cannot explain how, in the body, by eating food, it turns into...

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of... First of all, decide there are two kinds of energies working.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Material energy and spiritual energy. So, so far material energy, they have come to the point of atom, and they are searching out. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, this material atom is all right. But this is apara. This is inferior. There is another superior energy, atom." What is that? "This jīva-bhūta." So why don't you not see it? How rascal they are. Jīva-bhūta is there. He is seeing jīva bhuta, living... So Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Here is the superior atom." Why don't do they not see to it?

Acyutānanda: Because they are so sinful, they cannot see.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: You have also said, regarding that, that Kṛṣṇa gives us the conclusion of the those three processes in the Bhagavad-gītā, that karma is concluded, yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi (BG 9.27), and jñāna is concluded, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19), and yoga is concluded yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47). So is there some conclusive..., like Kṛṣṇa says, concluding, sarva-dharmān parityajya. Is there some conc...?

Prabhupāda: That is the real end. You have to become the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Either you go through karma or jñāna or yoga, it doesn't matter. The ultimate aim is how to reach Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. (break) Arjuna achieved the favor of Kṛṣṇa by fighting, by killing. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 22, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Pañcadraviḍa: She is widow.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is widow, because Kṛṣṇa is ultimate husband. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Jaya!

Children: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Jaya Prabhupāda! Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Jaya!

Children: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hari bol!

Prabhupāda: Hari bol! So where is the artist for painting?

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Photograph?

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, it is the business of the government. Vaiṣṇava can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra anywhere. He doesn't require any nice park. Ahaituky apratihatā. For becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, for a serious person, there is no obstacle. Any condition he can do it. (break) ...why there is sannyāsī? In the Vedic civilization, ultimately sannyāsa. Why? That one must give up the intimate relationship with wife. This is the ultimate position. Brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam.

Prabhupāda: That is recommended everywhere. Illicit or legal.... Mahāprabhu has said, asat eka strī-saṅgī: "Anyone who is attached to woman, he is asat." Bas. This is the whole process, how to become detached from the attraction of woman, dhīra. (break) Give up the connection with woman is recommended. So in our society it will be a good test. We are mixed up with men and women. If you in spite of this allurement, if you do not become attracted by woman, then you should know you are paramahaṁsa. Yes. You are worshipable. And this Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the paramahaṁsas. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). It is especially.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So it may seem like these other things are stepping-stones to Kṛṣṇa, but is it necessarily so?

Prabhupāda: No stepping-stone. This is the ultimate, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), these four things. Unless you come to this point, there is no question of perfection.

Dr. Patel: That's right. Then you feel that every action of yours is done for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Not feel, but actually it's an order.

Dr. Patel: Actually doing it.

Prabhupāda: Arjuna did not feel; he took order to kill. Not that you manufacture your idea. No. That is not. You take order directly and then do it; otherwise you'll be responsible. Therefore the guru is required to act as representative of Kṛṣṇa. If he says, "Yes, it is all right," then it is all right. Otherwise not. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. Otherwise why guru is required? We must take every moment order from him.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not more than three hours. I go to sleep at ten and I get up at one.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) You get less sleep when... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, ultimate success is, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, when you can conquer over nidrā, sleeping, āhāra, eating, because animal life means āhāra nidrā bhaya maithuna. And spiritual life means you have to conquer over this. That is spiritual life. (Hindi) In spiritual life...

Dr. Patel: You'll have me drinking tea.

Prabhupāda: No, everyone, not you.

Dr. Patel: I don't.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual life means... (Hindi) And Dhruva Mahārāja starved six months, a boy of five years old. It is possible. He did not eat. Simply tapasya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: That jñānī, his wife worshiping...

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...think he must know how things are going on. That is knowledge. "I have created heaven. I am the center. Whatever I believe, that's all right." There's so many rascal philosophers. Everyone is thinking "I am the..." And their different views.

Hari-śauri: If they're mentally satisfied, they think that's the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...there's no such thing. "I believe." Immediately.... What Kṛṣṇa says, that's true. That is our movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What I believe? I'm a nonsense. I am.... I have got four defects in my life: illusion, mistake, cheating, insufficiency. What is the meaning of my belief? A cheater saying, "I believe," I have to accept if I know that he's a cheat? (break) ...the public, by misleading them they have gone to moon.

Devotee: (tape static-inaudible)

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: If everybody pooled their resources.

Prabhupāda: Why state?

Hari-śauri: Well, the state is the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: Take the whole world. You have got the United Nation; why you are busy about the state?

Hari-śauri: Well, his idea was that communism should be spread everywhere.

Prabhupāda: This is communism. First of all, you accept one father, or the whole world is father's property, and every living being has a right to enjoy the father's property. Why you are thinking this portion is Russia, this portion is American? It is father's property. So if there is rush in China or India, why not allow them to come to Russia or America? "No. That is my property." What is this philosophy? A father's property, everyone has got right to enjoy the father's property. Can this rascal Marx propose communism on this basis?

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: There is. Nobody can deny it. Only this tenth-class man will deny it. Even third-class man, fourth class, he'll not deny. But what is that intelligence, one should make it a science. Intelligence there is no doubt about it.

Devotee (2): There's another theory that God created the universe, and then things are just happening haphazardly. There's no actual design or ultimate plan of creation. Simply He created, and things were set in motion.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish notion. Just like the seed, banyan tree seed, every plan is there: how the tree will grow, how the fruits will flower, flowers will come. Everything is there. That is intelligence. Within a small seed everything is there potency. Aśakti vividaiva. Sarvavidya. It comes certainly.

Devotee (2): One thing though, people, they see that there's birth and death, they don't understand the purpose of the whole creation when they see that so many things are going on like this.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: It's like you were saying for this philosopher, Sartre. We see our practical experience is that someone has less intelligence, someone has more intelligence. So we should understand that God means...

Prabhupāda: The ultimate intelligence. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: So now these governments are very rascal. They are cheating the people deliberately.

Prabhupāda: Well, government means combination of cheaters like you. What do you expect more than that? If you are cheaters, then you go to the government. Someway or other get vote. Bribe or something nefarious you do and get vote, and they become cheap government man. And then do your business. Because you are cheater, you have come to the post of prestige and power. What you will do? You know simply only cheat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he'll cheat more.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Go on.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Canto Seven, Chapter Six, text 2.

yathā hi puruṣasyeha

viṣṇoḥ pādopasarpanam

yad eṣa sarva-bhūtānāṁ

priya ātmeśvaraḥ suhṛt

"The human form of life affords one a chance to return home, back to Godhead. Therefore every living entity, especially in the human form of life, must engage in devotional service to the lotus feet of Lord Viṣṇu. This devotional service is natural because Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is the most beloved, the master of the soul, and the well-wisher of all other living beings." Purport: "The Lord says in Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter Five, verse 29,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ

sarva-loka-maheśvaram

suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

(BG 5.29)

'The sages, knowing Me as the ultimate purpose of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attain peace from the pangs of material miseries.'

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am giving you, Arjuna, because you are My very intimate friend, that you give up your nonsense plans." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender to Me. This is the most confidential knowledge. You can misuse your independence, but I am instructing you most confidentially because you are My intimate. Don't make plans like rascals. You just surrender to Me. This is confidential." Or in other words, "Don't foolishly try to become God. You remain a servant. Surrender to..." This is the ultimate instruction. Find out in the Eighteenth Chapter, sarva-guhyatamam. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Right. How do you determine what's an obstacle?

Prabhupāda: Obstacles, the ultimate obstacle is that you don't like to die, but you can die any moment. This is greatest obstacle. Why don't you think of it? You are sitting here, you are young man. So you may die immediately.

Richard: Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: That is the greatest obstacle. You have got so many plans to do in your life, but you can die any moment. Is it not obstacle?

Richard: The presence of death or the possibility of death?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Richard: Um, to me, I don't think really it is, for me.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why not? You don't like to die.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The real problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. They do not understand this. They are so.... Just like animals. Animal does not understand what is birth, death, old age and disease. Real problem is there, but they are so dull-headed that their attention is diverted from the real problem. Temporary problems, they are busy. Just like, one major disease, one is suffering from a major disease. On account of that, he has sometimes headache, sometimes pain here, sometimes so many, minor. So, because we are subjected to meet death, so these minor conditions are there. The real problem is after suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering, when the body is no more able to bear suffering, it dies. Just like one man commits suicide. When he cannot control himself from the suffering, he voluntarily commits suicide. So death is the ultimate suffering. But we do not want suffering. Therefore problem is death. But who is anxious to solve this problem? They are not intelligent even.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: According to them, the so-called renounced order of life is meant for those who are unable to earn their livelihood because of some corporeal defects or for persons who have failed to achieve prosperity in family life. In histories like the Mahābhārata, of course, there are topics on transcendental subjects along with material topics. The Bhagavad-gītā is there in the Mahābhārata. The whole idea of the Mahābhārata is culminated in the ultimate instructions of the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should relinquish all other engagements and should engage oneself solely and fully in surrendering unto the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. But men with materialistic tendencies are more attracted to politics, economics and philanthropic activities mentioned in the Mahābhārata than to the principle topic namely the Bhagavad-gītā. This compromising spirit of Vyāsadeva is directly condemned by Nārada, who advises him to directly proclaim that the prime necessity of human life is to realize one's eternal relation with the Lord and thus surrender unto Him without delay. A patient suffering from a particular type of malady is almost always inclined to accept eatables which are forbidden for him. The expert physician does not make any compromise with the patient by allowing him to take partially what he should not take at all. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said that a man attached to fruitive work should not be discouraged from his occupation, for gradually he may be elevated to the position of self-realization.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Thus it is here confirmed that there is no truth higher than Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. The impersonal Brahman is the goal of those who cultivate the study of books of transcendental knowledge, and the Supersoul is the goal of those who perform the yoga practices. One who knows the Supreme Personality of Godhead surpasses realization of both Brahman and Paramātmā, because Bhagavān is the ultimate platform of absolute knowledge. The Personality of Godhead is the complete form of sac-cidananda (full life, knowledge and bliss). By realization of the sat portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited existence), one realizes the impersonal Brahman of the Lord. By realization of the cit portion of the Complete Whole (unlimited knowledge) one can realize the localized aspect of the Lord, Paramātmā. But neither of these partial realizations of the Complete Whole can help one realize ānanda, or complete bliss. Without such realization of ānanda, knowledge of the Absolute Truth is incomplete. This verse of Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī is confirmed by a parallel statement in the Tattva-sandarbha by Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī. In the Eighth Part of Tattva-sandarbha it is said that the Absolute Truth is sometimes approached as impersonal Brahman, which, although spiritual, is only a partial representation of the Absolute Truth. Nārāyaṇa, the predominating Deity in Vaikuṇṭha, is to be known as an expansion of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, but Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Absolute Truth, the object of the transcendental love of all living entities."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone, for all people. There must be on the head the intelligent class of men who will give advice. Then next class, the... That is all given in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. But when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious you can give up all these regulative principles directly. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). A brāhmaṇa-dharma, kṣatriya-dharma, or this dharma, that dharma, Hindu dharma, Mussulman dharma. If you have everything, simply... Because the ultimate aim of dharma is to come to Kṛṣṇa. "You directly come to Me; then everything is all right."

Devotee: So many other people, they concoct their own system and they say "This is the way to go to God."

Prabhupāda: Then let them suffer. What can be done? What can be done? If you don't take the laws of the state, you manufacture your own laws, then you'll suffer. If the state says, "Keep to the right," and if make your own law, "No, keep to the left," then you'll suffer. It's a fact.

Devotee: So many innocent people are also...

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

arjuna uvāca

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma

pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān

puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam

ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum

(BG 10.12)

āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve

devarṣir nāradas tathā

asito devalo vyāsaḥ

svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me

(BG 10.13)

"Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier."

Prabhupāda: And that Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsaḥ. Now here Arjuna is experienced, "You are the Supreme Brahman." So he has seen the Supreme Brahman. So you make Arjuna guru, Kṛṣṇa guru. Arjuna is representative of Kṛṣṇa, friend of Kṛṣṇa. So why do you go to a bogus guru? You must be cheated. Guru is essential. It is necessary. But take the real guru. But if you go to the bogus guru, you must be disappointed. For your treatment you need to go to a physician. That's all. When you are diseased you cannot say, "No, no, I don't want to..." It is necessary. But go to the real physician. Don't go to a cheater. He has no knowledge in the medical science, and he places himself as "I am physician, MD." Then you'll be cheated.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Arjuna said: You are the Supreme Brahman, the ultimate, the supreme abode and purifier, the Absolute Truth and the eternal divine person. You are the primal God, transcendental and original, and You are the unborn and all pervading beauty. All the great sages such as Nārada, Asita, Devala, and Vyāsa, proclaim this of You and now You Yourself are declaring it to me."

Prabhupāda: Arjuna is rectifying this because people may say, "Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend, he is accepting Him as guru." No, Arjuna says, "Not only I, but other authorities, they also accept." So it is..., everything is clear, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and He should be accepted as guru or His representative should be accepted guru. Then it will be... So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the supreme guru. You take instruction from Him and be benefited. But one who is carrying this message, he is also authorized. Just like one money order, it is coming through the post office, but an ordinary peon is handing over the money. But he is representative of post office. Actually, the money order is being delivered by the post office, general post office. But it is coming through an ordinary peon. But because he is authorized to deliver you, he is also post office. He's as good as the post office. Just you have got a letter box, a small box, but if you put your letter there, your letter will surely go ten thousand miles away.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaiṣṇavism. Vaiṣṇava means Viṣṇu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead and one who loves Viṣṇu or loves God, he is Vaiṣṇava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic persons. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanti anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty. Kāmuka. And the kāmuka platform is material world, lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife, and so on, so on." Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavati-bhāryaṁ dehi. Simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Those who are sūraya, actually advanced, they see to the Viṣṇu paramaṁ padam. Viṣṇor aradhanaṁ param. The worship of Viṣṇu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be worshiper of Viṣṇu. And that is Vaiṣṇavism. So Vaiṣṇavism means for everyone or sanātana dharma.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the ultimate.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I remember as a child in Hong Kong, in the village they would keep big glass jars of snakes, they would put the snakes in jars. And after they were many times soaking in liquid, then they would eat it.

Hari-śauri: Pickled snakes.

Prabhupāda: Snakes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, keep it in a jar in liquid.

Prabhupāda: They put in the jar alive?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No, they catch it, kill it, put it in the jar.

Hari-śauri: It's like a pickle, they pickle it. And when they want to eat it, they take.

Prabhupāda: So there is poison in the mouth, they cut it?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They cut off the head, flesh.

Prabhupāda: Snake they eat. Even in India there is a class, they eat snake. Chinese, they eat. They are Chinese?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Sir, may I read you back the, my version of "Materialism Without Purpose"? May I read you "Materialism Without Purpose"? "Mankind's insatiable appetite for material things stems from instinctive desire to pursue technology, which in turn drives civilization to a frenzy of activity. However, without a cause or a purpose," or spirituality, as you say, "the rush and hurry in uncertain directions to uncertain places creates an excess of technological gimmickery. Perhaps this continuing quest for more material goods would be less anxious if the cause of this obsession of mankind were universally recognized. If we saw the ultimate use of technology as an extension of nature with a purpose for the whole life system, perhaps a new life style would evolve. We would see creative natural instinctive satisfying outlet for energies, and we might all collectively attain more peace of mind. The waste of technological gimmickery would then disappear. Hard reality, however, will extinguish our relentless desire for material things if we do not correct the situation ourselves. We will soon run out of resources and power if our technological explosions continues as blind as a raging torrent of water flowing in any direction gravity takes it."

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding. Because, after all, you are an instrument in the hands of material nature.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, socially you can teach how this cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), how it is scientific. In the society, if there is... Actually we have. Just like why these, maybe so-called scientists, but why the scientists are given so much importance? Because there is a brain. So if you make everyone equal, all śūdras, then who will be the brain? The brain is required. That is brāhmaṇa. So this, not this brain, this brain is śūdra brain for everyone. But when the... But just like here is Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, or you are here. So you are not scientists from the very birth. You have been trained up how to become a scientist. Similarly, the birth is there. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But you have to be trained up how to become first-class brain. That is brāhmaṇa. You have to become truthful, you have to become controller of the senses, you have to become fully aware of things, of God, everything, full knowledge, then you become brain. These people give scientists so much importance because there is brain. Brain, in the society, there must be brain. So without brain how the society can go on? If you simply produce motor mechanics, then? Brain must be there. Just like this is brain, Sanātana Gosvāmī is asking, ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. This is brain. "I don't want some uncomfortable situation, but why it is enforced?" So when you make research into that, that is brain. And if we remain like animal, "All right, they are dragging me to the slaughterhouse, that's all right, let me go," that is not brain. Brain means that I am seeking after perfect happiness, why I am not allowed to have this perfect happiness? That is brain. The question, if there is any remedy. They are doing this. Scientific brain means there are so many problems, they are trying to solve it. That requires brain. But because they are poor scientists, they do not know how to make a solution of the ultimate problem. They are making tiny problems, that's all. There is power shortage, all right, let us invent some substitute of petroleum.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is when you do not know what is the ultimate duty. Because you are thinking that you are Indian, somebody is thinking he's America, somebody is thinking he's this or that. So there the advice is try to relinquish the result of your action. Don't be attached to the resultant action of your duty. The idea is to become detached, but because you cannot do it immediately, therefore the advice is, "All right, you remain in your so-called duty, but don't be attached to the result of your actions." Then where the action will go? Suppose I am a businessman and I have earned, say, two million dollars. So mā phaleṣu kadācana, the result is already there, what shall I do it? Two millions of dollars, I shall throw it in the street? What do you think?

Dr. Sharma: Not to be attached to it.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: What is the ultimate?

Prabhupāda: Ultimate is that you are spirit soul, you are being materially engrossed, you are creating different situations and you are being transferred to different bodies. That is different situations.

Interviewer: But for what purpose and to what end? What's the final end?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so final, that unless you are spiritually realized, you do not know what is the final end. The final end is that we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in contact with this material atmosphere. So our final aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless we know this and we practice how to return back again to Godhead, then we have to remain within this material world, transmigrating from one body to another. Therefore the human intelligence is meant for understanding the spiritual identity and the goal of life and act accordingly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is an educational movement to enlighten the people from gross ignorance to the highest enlightenment of spiritual understanding.

Interviewer: Is it an internal educational process or external?

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not Kṛṣṇa cons..., immediately Kṛṣṇa conscious. Consciousness is there. Just like so long the soul is there, you pinch any part of your body—you'll feel pain. That is consciousness. And when the soul is gone out of the body, If you cut the hand, there will be no consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: Did you mean to ask whether the ultimate state of consciousness is within us that has to be brought out?

Interviewer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, consciousness is already there.

Rāmeśvara: He meant the dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is that...

Prabhupāda: That is original consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: So that is within us.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting there is God, I must offer. Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say go to the temple and see God. And this Christian, go to the church and offer... The subject matter is the same—accept God. Accept God. But the ultimate, shall we say, goal is not only accept God... They go to God for some material benefit, because they have no other idea. Like the Christians say, "O God, give us our daily bread." I do not know what the Muhammadans say in the prayer. Hindus also, they go to God, "Sir, I am very poor, give me some money," or "I am diseased, please cure me." So these things are the same in different ways according to country and customs. But it is good because they have approached God. That much is good. They are accepting there is God. That much is good. But when he makes further progress, that there is God, what kind of person He is, what is His business, then you make further progress. So these, for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better. Let him go to the mosque, let him go to the temple, let him go to the church. At least, let him maintain the idea of God. That is the ritualistic. Then there is further progress.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya: the breathing period. We have got idea, breathing period. Within second we are having two, three breathing. So within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu innumerable universes are coming out. This is greatness. How great is God, it is same idea, that within the breathing period innumerable universes are coming. We cannot conceive of one universe, but we get the information that innumerable universes are coming out during the breathing period. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). That Mahā-Viṣṇu, yasya kalā-viśeṣa, part and plenary portion, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So when we speak all these things, they'll take it mythology. And a cheap god comes, we'll accept, "Here is God." This is the position. They do not try to understand that actually God is great, how great He is. That is called kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya, Dr. Frog's philosophy. Dr. Frog is within the well, three feet length and breadth. He's thinking, "This is the ultimate reservoir of water." And when he's informed there is Atlantic Ocean, he simply calculates, "All right, this is three feet. It may be six feet or it may be seven feet; all right, come on, ten feet." He's going like that. So God is not like that, within our calculation. In the Bhagavad-gītā when Kṛṣṇa was speaking about the vibhūti-yoga, He was speaking "I am this amongst this." Find out this vibhūti-yoga, Twelfth Chapter I think it is.

Harikeśa: You want the last verse?

Prabhupāda: No, one, where it is said, "I am this amongst this," and like that.

Harikeśa: Just the English?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Meeting, I am meeting you. That does not mean we have become one. You are meeting me, I am meeting you. So we are different.

Indian man (2): What is ultimate object of that bhakti?

Prabhupāda: Ultimate object is you are offering this flower—this is bhakti. But you are different than me.

Indian man (2): That's all right. That is all right. That bhakti, you can call it love, you can call it various things. Bhakti means surrender.

Prabhupāda: Bhakti means the process by which Bhagavān and bhakta interact. That is bhakti.

Indian man (2): That's all? He gains with that interaction?

Prabhupāda: Interaction. That does not mean bhakta and Bhagavān become equal.

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is sādhu. The first qualification is titikṣava. very tolerant. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinām. Those who are tapasvīs, their first duty is how much he is forgiving. How much he has learned to forgive. Kṣamā-rūpaṁ tapasvinām. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena (SB 6.1.13). So what is the explanation?

Harikeśa: Purport? A sādhu, as described above, is a devotee of the Lord. His concern, therefore, is to enlighten people in devotional service to the Lord. That is his mercy. He knows that without devotional service to the Lord, human life is spoiled. A devotee travels all over the country, from door to door, preaching, "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Be a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Don't spoil your life in simply fulfilling your animal propensities. Human life is meant for self-realization, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." These are the preachings of a sādhu. He is not satisfied with his own liberation. He always thinks about others. He is the most compassionate personality towards all the fallen souls. One of his qualifications, therefore, is kāruṇika, great mercy to the fallen souls. While engaged in preaching work, he has to meet with so many opposing elements, and therefore the sādhu, or devotee of the Lord, has to be very tolerant. Someone may ill-treat him because the conditioned souls are not prepared to receive the transcendental knowledge of devotional service. They do not like it; that is their disease. The sādhu has the thankless task of impressing upon them the importance of devotional service. Sometimes devotees are personally attacked with violence. Lord Jesus Christ was crucified, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was caned in twenty-two marketplaces, and Lord Caitanya's principal assistant, Nityānanda, was violently attacked by Jagāi and Mādhāi. But still they were tolerant because their mission was to deliver the fallen souls. One of the qualifications of a sādhu is that he is very tolerant and is merciful to all fallen souls. He is merciful because he is the well-wisher of all living entities. He is not only a well-wisher of human society, but a well-wisher of animal society as well. It is said here, sarva-dehinām, which indicates all living entities who have accepted material bodies. Not only does the human being have a material body, but other living entities, such as cats and dogs, also have material bodies. The devotee of the Lord is merciful to everyone—the cats, dogs, trees, etc. He treats all living entities in such a way that they can ultimately get salvation from this material entanglement. Śivānanda Sena, one of the disciples of Lord Caitanya, gave liberation to a dog by treating the dog transcendentally. There are many instances where a dog got salvation by association with a sādhu, because a sādhu engages in the highest philanthropic activities for the benediction of all living entities. Yet although a sādhu is not inimical towards anyone, the world is so ungrateful that even a sādhu has many enemies.

What is the difference between an enemy and a friend? It is a difference in behavior. A sādhu behaves with all conditioned souls for their ultimate relief from material entanglement.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result?

Indian man: B.N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. B.N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy... Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There's another six year old "god" called Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six year old Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He was producing ash with some magic.

Prabhupāda: Ash?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ash. So all the local, a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded and the child's parents admitted it was bogus. Now that "god" is finished. Bhagavān Śrī Kṛṣṇa. He was six year old Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, "Why should I respond to these people?"

Indian man: He's angry from that.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is the... So He can speak what is Vedānta. And unless one accepts this Vedānta, he's not a Vedāntist. Therefore some of our Vaiṣṇava friends, they have given me this title, Bhaktivedanta. In 1947, something, they, purposefully, they gave me the title that Vedānta means bhakti. "So you take this title, Bhaktivedanta." And we are preaching this Vedānta, that the ultimate platform of Veda, knowledge, is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So he's person, he's speaking. So not that the Māyāvādīs, they take that paratattva is the nirākāra-brahman. But that is not paratattva. Here the person says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So if you have to accept Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority, then Vedānta means, He says also, to know Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, it is not anta, it may be middle, it may be beginning, but not anta.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherd boys friend, so Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, "Who are these boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa who is the source of brahma-sukha?" Brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. These boys are playing with another boy known as Kṛṣṇa. He is the source of brahma-sukhānubhūti. And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena. Those who are devotees, for them He is the Supreme Lord. And māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa. And those who are under the influence of māyā, they are seeing He's an ordinary boy. But whatever He may be, these boys who are playing with him, sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). After many, many lives acquisition of pious activities, now he has got this opportunity to play with this boy, the source of brahma-sukha. Itthaṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā. They are not playing with ordinary child. He is the source of brahma-sukha. This is the statement of Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So if we come to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is personally presenting Himself, that is Vedānta. Otherwise, bahūnāṁ janmanām... We have come to that point, but if we neglect, then it will take many, many births to come to that point. Because that is the ultimate. Unless we come to that point, to understand Kṛṣṇa, there is still scarcity of knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa says that "When there is scarcity of knowledge, then I appear." Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). When the scarcity of knowledge is polluted... Not only scarcity, but it is polluted. Glāniḥ. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glāniḥ. This is dharma, to come to the perfect knowledge. Human being must come to the perfect knowledge, because this is a boon. Not the cats and dogs can understand. Human being. So when there is glāniḥ, they are accepting the preliminary beginning of knowledge as the perfect knowledge, that is glāniḥ.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.

Guest (1): Sir, isn't the real bhakti (indistinct), dvijātmānaṁ brahma-rūpaṁ deha-tyāgi vibhayaḥ tena kartavyam...(?) (indistinct) That type of bhakti is a tapasya (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: But who is going to take the bhakti? He was going to take sense enjoyment.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If your mother says, "Here is your father," that's all right. You don't require any other. And that is paramparā. Mother knows how you were created by your father. So she is the ultimate evidence. That's all. You cannot speculate. If you disbelieve your mother, then there is no question of understanding your father.

Indian man: We all have at certain moments of devotion some sort of feelings when we feel we are very much near the God. But that concrete reality, to attain that, the only way is jñāna, upāsanā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is jñāna. But the jñāna must be received through the right source. Jñāna is not speculation. The modern rascals, they create jñāna by speculation. That is not jñāna. That is ajñāna. The same example. If you don't receive jñāna from your mother, there is no jñāna of father. If you millions of years go on speculating who is your father he'll never be revealed. That is not jñāna. That is ajñāna. So these rascals, they are creating jñāna. That is not jñāna. Jñāna means you should receive jñāna through the right source.

Indian man: And what is the upāsanā you will be prescribing for those people who want to achieve jñāna?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Basic principle is that it is made by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now there are books, how to carry out the order. And the ultimate understanding, how to become faithful to the (indistinct). Just like good citizen means faithful to the government. Unfortunately these rascals, they do not have any idea, the supreme controller, supreme government. They say anything automatically.

Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇava is a good citizen of the government of God. That is Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is dharma. And Kṛṣṇa teaches that dharma. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Who will surrender unless he's a Vaiṣṇava?

Pālikā: Śrīla Prabhupāda? This morning you would like to take your breakfast after the program or after resting? Because I do not want to prepare the idli...

Prabhupāda: Later. All other dharmas are cheating.

Dr. Patel: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.

Prabhupāda: This is dharma.

Dr. Patel: Sarva-dharmān means all other vocations, I would say. Dharma means whatever vocation... Is one of the interpretations. "All vocations you leave and come to Me only and be My bhakta." That is... I would... Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Prabhupāda: Yes. God is great. We are small. The small business is to serve the great. That is going on everywhere.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: She herself is highly... The amount of respect she has got for Indian culture is terrific, to an extent of almost aggression if somebody puts a foot down or something about these things. Even Panditji, with all said and done, he had a feeling, and he was one with Mahatma Gandhi, that a day will come when India, by solving its problems, will take away the existing world from the present Western culture to a new culture, which will be of a superior level. That day would be the day when India has made good its ultimate destiny. Something like that they had feeling. So Panditji also was dreaming, but he was not an executive type of person. So Panditji had left his thing, all the dreams, but Mrs. Gandhi seems to be translating some of the dreams, or at least she feels she's translating some of the dreams into reality. The difficulty with her is that she has not proper guidance at times, and to that extent she feels she falls into certain pits of difficulties. Basically a good soul, but a soul with certain waywardness could become at times little...

Prabhupāda: So if you think that Mrs. Gandhi is religious and is for Indian culture, why not ask her to take the guidance of Kṛṣṇa? Who can give better guidance than Kṛṣṇa?

Indian lady (2): Mahatma Gandhi took guidance... Of course, he also made lots of mistakes, but he did take guidance...

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): Swamiji, may I ask one question which I had much discussion with your śiṣya here. Brahman, the sort of, what we in Hindu philosophy consider as the ultimate Godhead...

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (2): Brahman you consider Kṛṣṇa. But He is, of course... He was incarnate. He was one of the avatāras.

Prabhupāda: That is your opinion. That is not...

Guest (2): That is our point which I want to clarify.

Prabhupāda: You have to take the śāstra, authority. Brahmaṇo aham pratiṣṭhā. Read Bhagavad-gītā. You read Bhagavad-gītā? Now, did you not read this?

Guest (2): Well, that's what I want to clarify.

Prabhupāda: Find out this.

Trivikrama: 14.27.

Prabhupāda: Read that.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): He is the ultimate. There's nothing more.

Prabhupāda: He is the supreme guru. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). He's the supreme person. So why don't you accept Him as guru? That means you do not want. Then you must be cheated. If gold is available in a gold shop, purchase there. Why do you go to a pan-wala to purchase gold? Will you not be cheated? You do not know where to purchase gold, and still you are..., "Where is guru?" Go there, where gold is sold. And if you do not know even there, then you must be cheated. You do not know where is gold is available. Unfortunately you go to a pan-wala: "Have you got gold?" He'll give you some gold leaf, that's all: "Here is gold." The real thing is that guru is there, Kṛṣṇa is there. And we are presenting. We are not manufacturing. I do not say that I am guru. Our business is to present what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. Therefore I'm guru. Guru is he who speaks Kṛṣṇa's word. That is guru. And if he manufactures, then he is a cheater.

Guest (1): This is the test of guru.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is that book? (break) Sarvātmana yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Factually Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate shelter. If he has taken that shelter, he's free, immune. And that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed here. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo... (BG 18.66). If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, then if he gives such a duty, he's liable to fall down. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣ... "Because you are giving up all other duties, don't think that you'll be liable to punishment. I'll give you protection." So the conclusion is: if one is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he's obliged to do his duty. This is the easiest way to become free from all obligation—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, I think, duśyanta-rāja?

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.

Rāmeśvara: The whole war of Kurukṣetra was just so Kṛṣṇa's devotees...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It was designed by Kṛṣṇa. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bas, finished, all the demons finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bas, finished." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin: "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Kṛṣṇa's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise without your help they are already killed." So... Kṛṣṇa... Paritrāṇāya... He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is another side of His business. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is the judgment of the Chief Justice. He's not ordinary man.

Rāmeśvara: "...and the ultimate destiny of this universe." Then there is that other quote. This is also very important, by the Deputy Director of the Lok Sabha Secretariat.

Gargamuni: That Subhramaniam.

Rāmeśvara: He's a big man. And this is the national government.

Gargamuni: No, the central. Lok Sabha is like the Parliament.

Prabhupāda: Lok Sabha is Parliament. Lok Sabha means Parliament.

Rāmeśvara: Congress of the National Government.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This was protested by Caitanya Mahāprabhu vigorously. Why should you interpret?

Guest (4) (Indian man): Yes. He told, the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam is the ultimate bhāṣya of prasthāna code, Vedānta-sūtra.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, anything, if you can understand very clearly, where is the question of interpretation? But it has become a fashion that "If I can interpret in my own way, I become a big scholar." This is going on. If you have got your philosophy, you can speak. Everyone is free. Why you should take Bhagavad-gītā and distort it? Kṛṣṇa never meant that "In future Gandhi will come," or "Dr. Radhakrishnan will come, and he will explain My ideas." What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa was a foolish person that he left it for Gandhi for distortion? He could not explain Himself that Kurukṣetra means this body? Gandhi has to interpret? Do you think it is right?

Guest (5) (Indian man): Not at all.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That means more rascaldom. That is intelligence, they "I am trying to make the flowers more beautiful by setting up in this way, then who has made these beautiful flowers?" That is intelligence. There must be some brain. That is intelligence. That is philosophy. Philosophy means to search out the ultimate?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Absolute truth.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is philosophy. Philosophy is the science of science. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). The science of science.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Where you have?

Jayapatākā: Where... Just the place would have to be... Their place is a bit irregular. Seeing the ultimate plan, we have to find out one place. It would be in this area somewhere. Now they're keeping records of how much is spent on agriculture, and how much is received. So what is the profit or loss, that can be ascertained. And actually that's not such a threat because I know that many of the things he is doing by contract. If at some time we need outside laborer for, say, harvest time, we need to harvest—so we pay them ten rupees or twenty rupees to harvest one bighā. So there is no question of labor. That is the contract.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: In so many ways we can...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: ...go around that.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may have, but you cannot answer the ultimate question. They have got also science, art. A dog can understand that a foreigner is coming, and he begins to bark, "Yow! Yow! Yow!" and the master understands that somebody unknown is coming. You have got that science, that from mile or some, some distant place you can understand that some unknown person is coming. But dog can understand. He has got this art. He is better intelligent than you. Everyone has got some particular. That does not mean there is brain. Brain means to understand the problem of life. That is brain.

Pradyumna: But ultimately our intelligence comes from scripture and Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, that... Apart from scripture, logic, argument come. Scripture we take. That is our business. But you answer on common ground. Where is the difference why there is dead man and alive? What is your answer? Set aside scripture.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ultimate. That is stated by Rūpa Gosvāmī,

yena tena prakāreṇa

manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet

sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur

etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ

that "Somehow or other, bring him to chant Kṛṣṇa or to become little Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, when he's little purified, then the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ..." He's not rejecting the vidhi-niṣedhāḥ. Vidhi-niṣedhāḥ means regulative principles. It is not rejected, that... But when he's a little purified, this vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. Just like one... First of all let him become rich, get some money. And then, when he has got money, he can keep some servant, some assistant, some secretaries, like that. First of all earn money.

Rāmeśvara: So one step at a time.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Supreme managers.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Supreme managers. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Or the ultimate managers, like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The ultimate executives?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the executors.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ultimate executors.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or commissioners. You have...

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes, commissioners.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Commissioner is good, 'cause it's already...

Prabhupāda: Use such word.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Use a word that's proper.

Girirāja: Okay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For now just use one word.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So is that because they... They're in the heavenly enjoyment, but they see that that is not the ultimate, and unless they are born in Bhāratavarṣa and get the opportunity for perfection in bhakti, they cannot achieve that ultimate, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It seems that this is a very fortunate position, to be in this Bhāratavarṣa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is favorable position. (indistinct—very faint)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was seeing tonight when I was circumambulating the temple that the people... I could see that they're enjoying this field of enjoyment, completely unaware of the rare opportunity that they have. And then I was looking at the Deities, and I was realizing that the whole purpose of this temple and our movement is to give this opportunity to people to utilize this rare birth properly. (break)

Prabhupāda: (extremely faint) Grandson says? What is that? "Grandson says"? Supersoul? Something very extraordinary. Triumphant. "I shall be triumphant." (break) (indistinct) That is Indian style. "Kṛṣṇa we must move. Now this child is trying to turn Himself. Turn Himself." There is ceremony. This is ceremony. This is Indian way of raising up children. Sad-bhakṣaṇa.(?) When we were small children, we were all, brothers and sisters, three mo..., three years before us. So naturally, when mother was young, she became pregnant. So there were three, four ceremonies during, within the period of three years. One is called sad-bhakṣaṇa. Sad-bhakṣaṇa.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recruit them, at least some.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very favorable and a person like that, by Kṛṣṇa's mercy... I never saw her before, but just happened to be in the right time. And she thought that whatever is thinking in the Western thought about this Darwinian philosophy is also wrong. So I requested her that "It is your duty or responsibility as a leading scientist at least to also present this knowledge. You only accept that whatever knowledge is coming from the West, especially in the science, that that is the ultimate. Why don't you also present this genuine scientific knowledge of the Gītā as factual science? That way..."

Prabhupāda: Or very...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: She said yes. She actually felt the necessity, and she was actually praising a lot about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that such things are being discussed in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, and she had a great hope that this can be pushed on and the philosophy can be very accepted in the scientific community. So I request her also to help us in different capacities. She can write articles, we can publish in this journal, Sa-vijñānam. We can print it and publicize more on the presentation of Vedic scientific knowledge. So like that, I want to generate some momentum among the leading Indian scientists.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Do.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, spiritual master is under the shelter of Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: Spiritual master is also viśaya.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is viśaya, āśraya. Ultimate āśraya is Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more superior āśraya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can't we say that because the spiritual master is taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa, he is also...

Prabhupāda: Therefore he is āśraya, electrified. Sākṣād-dharitvena samastra-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva, kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Priya viśaya. Therefore he can act as āśraya. Āśraya laiyā bhaje, kṛṣṇa nāhi tāre tyaje, āra saba more akara. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Āśraya laiyā bhaje, kṛṣṇa nāhi tāre tyaje, āra saba more akara. Others simply wasting time.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I requested him whether he's interested in this type of conference. And I also started talking about evolution. So he told me that it's already proven that life comes from chemicals. Then I told him that "How do you know?" He told me what he had understood, but he couldn't tell anything. And I told him that "These are all stories. So you think that whatever knowledge is coming from the West, the Western countries, the United States, is the ultimate. It's written in books, and you never think what is written in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā." He's also a brāhmaṇa. He's a tri-vedi. So I started telling that "These are all fairy tale stories, and we'd like to prove that whatever science knows so far, it's all wrong." So he was very interested in what I said, (Prabhupāda chuckles) and he said that he's very interested to take part in our conference, and he's coming. So they can bring many scientists from Agra to participate in the conference. So...

Girirāja: Is there many of them?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And I also started telling him little bit about what the significance of this conference will be. (describes own preaching activities and plans for scientific conference for some time) And I requested him to participate in this program and... It will be very meaningful as a normal...

Prabhupāda: So you are listing all the men who will participate?

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. He's a dangerous, who maintains these rascal with this work. He'll always have questions and alteration. That is his business. That is American business. They take that always. What can I do? Ultimate, it goes for editorial. They make changes, such changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your original work that you're doing now, that is edited by Jayādvaita. That's the first editing.

Prabhupāda: He is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is good. But then, after they print the books, they're going over. So when they reprint...

Prabhupāda: So how to check this? How to stop this?

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they are doing very freely and dangerously. And this rascal is always after change, Rādhā-vallabha. He's a great rascal. (pause) Read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Translation: Previously all the great sages rendered service unto the Personality of Godhead due to His existence above the three modes of material nature. They worshiped Him to become free from material conditions and thus derive the ultimate benefit. Whoever follows such great authorities is also eligible for liberation from the material world.

Purport: The purpose of performing religion is neither to profit by material gain nor to get the simple knowledge of discerning matter from spirit. The ultimate aim of religious performances is to release oneself from material bondage and regain the life of freedom in the transcendental world, where the Personality of Godhead is the Supreme Person. Laws of religion, therefore, are directly enacted by the Personality of Godhead, and except for the mahājanas, or the authorized agents of the Lord, no one knows the purpose of religion.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I'll come to that. So the grocer also thought, "Now I also should shave." Something saying like that. Then another man met him. He also said. He also said. Then at last, one intelligent man, he asked, "Who is this man?" Then again the news come back through the paramparā, (laughter) yes, who is this man. Then he called the man, first, who said. He was a dhobi, and his ass was dead. The ass was dead, so hearing, it has gone so far. The other men... The unintelligent persons are like that. They do not know, inquire what is the real thing. Just like twenty years ago I said, "This is all nonsense, moon-going." And now they are coming: "Oh, it is hoax." So that is the difference. Twenty years before and "This is all childish waste of money. This rascal will never be able to go to the moon." And now they are coming. That is the difference. I said from common sense. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. And we read in the Bhāgavatam that to go to the moon planet, one has to execute such yajñas, karma-kāṇḍa. We understand from śāstra. And how this rascal with a machine will go there? That is a common sense. But they do not believe in the words of the śāstra. Rascals, they were bluffed and they believe. Śāstra-cakṣus. Your eyes should be through the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma..., na siddhiṁ sa... (BG 16.23). We believe in this. Therefore I said twenty years before. That is the difference. We take the words of śāstra, words of Kṛṣṇa, ultimate. That's all. So we have no difficulty. They do not believe in śāstra. They do not believe in Kṛṣṇa. So they were bluffed. That is the difference. We have... I started this movement. It is not manufactured by me. Take the words of authorities and spread. There is no adulteration. There is no alteration. That is... Mahājano yena gataḥ... (end)

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Until you're over your cold, it's better not to take anything strong. That Lassicks(?) is like a brahmāstra. It's like an ultimate weapon. It should only be used as a last resort.

Prabhupāda: Atomic bomb.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. But not... Unlike the brahmāstra, it cannot be withdrawn. Once it's taken, it has to act. We've been studying the course of the sun daily now. We're reading that chapter. And Bhakti-prema Swami... There's a library in Vṛndāvana. All the books... Perhaps you know. It's over the Post Office in Loi Bazaar.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what is your value?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he says you can't give him either.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that I can give. But you say you can give. You say that "Without God we can do." We don't say. We say the God is the ultimate controller. Therefore it is your duty to give him, not our, my duty. I don't take the all power. I'm not such a fool. Therefore the onus has to be proved by you. What is called? Onus?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The onus is on them.

Prabhupāda: You do it, without God. Then I take it seriously. Otherwise empty voice simply, nonsensical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Elders should be careful to give sound knowledge based on objective evidence to their children. Unfortunately a lot of delusional ideas are put into the minds of children in the name of religion. Dāsa and Swami talk about rebirth, soul, Supreme Soul, life generating matter, etc.... As a result of such delusional ideas put into them by deluded Indian God-man, Prabhupāda, who founded the bizarre cult know as Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Oh, he's a real demon, this man. Kṛṣṇa has a place already put aside for him. His science won't help him at that time. "Knowledge and enlightenment cannot be had through meditation, which is only a form of self-hypnosis.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, we are taking the help of doctor, Āyurveda, by this yogendra-rasa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are just beginning that now, of course. Tomorrow you might give it up. Then what will be our position?

Prabhupāda: Don't have widow.(?) (laughter) Kṛṣṇa is ultimate husband.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The ultimate husband.

Prabhupāda: This here Sac-cid-ānanda, where he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is here. You want to speak with him about the kavirāja? We can call him.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. So that cursian(?) massaging?

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The scientists... Without systematic, how it is science?

Dr. Kapoor: Yes. And the science is basically unsystematic in the fact that it starts with certain assumptions which by itself is unscientific. Why should you start with certain assumptions? Philosophy does not commit that. Philosophy... I don't raise the questions. You see? Why do you believe that matter is ultimate? Why do you believe that spirit and time are ultimate? Science believes in assumptions. Philosophy has not taken that for granted. Very systematic thinking. Therefore I say you'll not go to the root of the matter. It will be just superficial thing.

Mādhava: We are trying to apply both.

Dr. Kapoor: Yes, both. As a matter of fact, there is no watertight compartment. They're not simply a part of each, then. They're dovetailed. Science penetrates into philosophy, you see?

Rūpānuga: But the root of the problem practically is whether life comes from matter and matter comes from life, and that is the basic theme...

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Matter has no consciousness, but what exactly it is? And you see, I tell you, matter has no consciousness—this is also an assumption. You see? The analysis of matter has revealed to the scientist, the physicist, that what remains in the ultimate analysis is at least not matter.

Prabhupāda: Matter, when you combine together, reveals some reaction. That's all.

Brahmānanda: When you combine matter together, it just gives some reaction.

Dr. Kapoor: True, but the question remains...

Prabhupāda: Just like soda, acid and soda. Mix together. There will be effervescence. That is matter. And life means gives impetus: "Do this." It is not comparable(?) thing.

Upendra: Time for giving him this juice, so... (break)

Prabhupāda: A child can speak sensibly, "Mother, give me this." But soda, alkaline and acid, mixed, it can give some dead effervescence.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Those who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, they have no necessity for all this. Sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ parihṛtya kartam.

devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇāṁ

na kiṅkaro nāyam ṛṇī ca rājan

sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ

gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam

(SB 11.5.41)

Anyone who is fully engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he has no other duty. He has finished all other duties. Tepus tapas te (SB 3.33.7). This is the injunction of the śāstra. He's no more anyone's servant, or he has got any duty to do-śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam—because he has taken the shelter of the ultimate Supreme Person. This is the injunction of the śāstra. So this śrāddha ceremony is not required for a devotee fully surrendered to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Gato mukundaṁ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyam. Śaraṇyam: He is the only shelter. And who has taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, he has no other duty. This is the śāstra. Yes. (break)... You now give. (drinks) (break)

Bhavānanda: Prabhupāda just asked where it was.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Locked in the almirah. Locked in your almirah.

Prabhupāda: Why?