Prabhupāda: Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without being in the origin? Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10), Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the root of everything." So if this energy, male and female combination, is a necessity, so wherefrom this necessity came into existence unless it is there in the origin? Therefore it is to be understood that the Absolute has energy. He has got different energies. By His energies He is acting, and that is confirmed in the Vedic sūtra, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The Supreme Absolute Truth has multi-energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, multi-energies. And svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca, and by His energies he's working in such a nice way that it appears that it is being automatically done. Just like this tape recorder is working. How it is working? The electric energy is there. By the electric energy the machine is so nicely working that when it is replayed exactly I am speaking. So energy is working. I am speaking, my speaking energy is acting, electric energy is helping. This machine energy is accepting and a nice thing is coming. Similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation is the manifestation of the energies. The rascals, they do not understand. And when it is stated that everything is Brahman, that is to be understood that everything is working under the energy of the Supreme Brahman. That is real meaning. But this is simultaneously one and different. When this tape recorder will play, it will play exactly I am speaking to you. There will be no difference of voice. If somebody hears from other room, he'll understand that Swamiji's speaking, but still, that speaking is different from me. Because my energy is working there. Similarly, there are two kinds of energies. Just like when I am speaking, this is my real energy, and when this tape recorder will speak, that is also my energy, but that is separated energy. Similarly, this material manifestation is separated energy, and there is direct energy.
Two energies (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"two are energies"
|"two different energies"
|"two different kinds of energies"
|"two energies"
|"two forms of limited energies"
|"two gross and subtle energies"
|"two kinds of energies"
|"two kinds of prakrtis or energies"
|"two main energies"
|"two of Krsna's energies"
|"two other energies"
|"two potencies, or energies"
|"two prakrtis, or subordinate energies"
|"two types of energies"
- VedaBase query: "two energies" or "two * energies" or "two * * energies" or "two * * * energies" or "two * * * * energies"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, you cannot say that, that the temperature of the sun and the temperature of the sunshine is the same.
Guest (2): No. But just because you have two different kinds of energies, why do you have to differentiate them? Essentially what he was trying to say...
Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. That is intelligence. One energy is acting as cooling, and the same energy is acting as heating. Why do you say it is heat and it is cool?
Guest (3): It's all the same thing. Heat and cool is the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Why do you say the same thing? It is not the same thing.
Guest (2): Of course, it is the same thing.
Guest (3): Everything is "it." It's all it.
Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Cold is cold, heat is heat. Only it is acting. You are talking on the material platform. You are not spiritual. You don't talk nonsense. (laughter) No. We have got enough time.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not know what is the original cause, and if some person suggests... Some... Not ordinary persons. Authorized person. You won't accept.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists do not know that there are two types of energies.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They do not know that there are two types of energies...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...inferior and the superior.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That they're actually seeing every day.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Handling every day. Still they'll not. Dog's obstinacy. That's all. They're seeing practically, that the material energy cannot work independently unless the spiritual energy joins. So how they can expect the whole cosmic manifestation, which is matter only, has come out automatically? We are practically seeing, a very nice car, Cadillac. But if there is no driver, what is the use of that car? A computer machine. Unless the man knows how to work it, pushes the button, it does not work. So practically we are seeing that without superior energy, the material energy does not act. Still they'll not believe it. Therefore in this wonderful cosmic manifestation, there must be handling of a superior energy.
Prabhupāda: The material energy, it is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. The spiritual en... Kṛṣṇa Himself is spiritual energy. Exactly like that is. This weather is coming from sun but sun is covered. The weather created by sun makes himself covered; not himself covered, it is covering our eyes. Sun is not covered. My eyes are covered. Therefore material means when our consciousness is not developed. That's the meaning. It is somehow or other covered. That is material. Where is our scientist? They... The mistake of the scientist is that they do not accept two energies, the material and spiritual.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: They accept one energy. We accept also that. But they, defect is they are beginning from the material. That is their method. Just like this weather is beginning from the light and gradually it is becoming dark. So darkest part or the dark part is called material. But the dark is beginning from light, not the light is beginning from dark. That is their method. They are thinking that from matter, consciousness is coming. Now consciousness is there. When it is covered, degraded, that is unconsciousness. So material means when the consciousness is forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. Material means gradual development of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. That is material. And spiritual means full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa. Is it clear? Try to understand this. Darkness is coming from light.
Prabhupāda: Material things, material and spiritual, the living entities, they are spiritual, and the material elements, earth, water, fire, they are also material energy. There are two kinds of energies. Why two kinds? Three kinds of energies. Just like fire has got two kinds of energies, heat and light, similarly, God has got multi-energies. All those multi-energies have been divided into three. One is called internal, another is called external, and the third is called marginal. So this material world is manifestation of the external and marginal energy. So when the material world ceases to exist or it is dissolved, annihilated, so energy goes back to God. It goes back. Again, when there is creation, the same energy creates. The marginal energy, by the marginal energy and external energy. This is going on. Just like day and night, it is going on. At daytime people are busy. This is creation. At night everyone is sleeping. Similarly, when there is creation, these activities are going on. When there is no creation, it is night, everyone is sleeping.
Father Tanner: Is there a spirit opposed to the divine spirit?
Prabhupāda: Spirit opp...?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam idam means Vāsudeva is everything. Because... We already explained: There are two energies, prakṛti of Vāsudeva, one aparā and para. And whatever you see, this is combination of this aparā and para. Therefore Vāsudeva is everything.
Dr. Patel: Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
Mr. Sar: Kāmais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ...
Dr. Patel: So that way Vāsudeva is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Hogya. Same thing He is...
Prabhupāda: Huh. But Vāsudeva is there. It does not mean... Māyāvādī says, "Because Vāsudeva has got everything, He has become everything, He's finished."
Mr. Sar: Vāsudeva still above.
Dr. Patel: That is... Nobody says that.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda. Yes. That is Māyāvāda, impersonalism. They don't accept the person. That... "Because Vāsudeva has expanded Himself in so many ways, therefore the identity of Vāsudeva is finished."
Prabhupāda: Material energy, yes. And the living entities, they are also energy, spiritual energy. Two energies. Two energies means just like fire. Fire has got two energies, heat and light. Similarly, the whole creation is combination of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore everything is Kṛṣṇa. Is it not? Yes. Just like you take milk. From milk you prepare so many milk preparations. You prepare yogurt, you prepare ghee, you prepare rasagullā, you prepare burfi and so many others. But therefore, actually, all of them are milk. This is... Under different combination only. In the milk, if you put some sour thing, it becomes yogurt. But it is milk. And that sour thing also, which is put into the milk, that is also Kṛṣṇa. (break) Why He is originally person, try to understand. And all these energies are imperson. Just like I am a person, you are a person. But when I... My temperature is imperson. Is it not? I have got temperature, if you put thermometer. That is imperson. So person is the origin, and the impersonal temperature is the energy.
Italian Man (1): I see, yes, yes. And the difference between the impersonalist, I mean, and the personalist is that the impersonalist does not believe..
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. If you keep... A man is dead, and keep his body. So it will decompose, but the life will come. So many worms will come. So these are... If you say that chemicals, these material, then the chemicals are there, and life is coming. Now you take this chemical and prepare. You cannot say, "Although these chemicals are there, there is some deficiency. Therefore the life is not coming." No, why do you say like that? Life is coming. That man is not coming, but the life is coming. So these are ingredients for life. You prepare. You bring that man. Still, the rascal will say that life is made from matter. Not even gentlemen, what to speak of becoming scientist? You prepare. "No, in future we shall see." And he is getting Nobel Prize. Just see how the human society has become full of rascals, go-kharaḥ. They cannot prove; still they will insist, "Yes." And so far God is concerned, we learn from śāstra that God's two energies are working like heat and light. So energies are working, we can see. How these mangoes have come unless there is some energy? So therefore the energy is working. Therefore God is there. Just like as soon as light is there, although we are in the room we can understand that sunlight is there. As soon as the darkness is there, we understand that there is no more sun. So in the presence of energy... Just like in the motor car, before starting, you round the key, and it becomes, "Gut, gut, gut, gut." Now your current is there. The energy is there. So there are symptoms. By symptoms we can understand there is God. Where is the difficulty? And Kṛṣṇa is explaining, "Here, just see the symptom. The taste in the water I am." Then why do you say that you have not seen God? You are liar. You create that taste?
Prabhupāda: You have studied Bhagavad-gītā?
Dr. Sallaz: Some. Some of the members know it perfectly. I do not.
Prabhupāda: So you read that. Energy, two energies, how they are explained. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.
Dr. Sallaz: You see some of members are... (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is in the Seventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, text numbers four and five.
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
- bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
"Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego-altogether these eight comprise My separated material energies."
Prabhupāda: This is material energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalaḥ, explain that.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That the material energies—earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego—these energies, they come from Kṛṣṇa. In other words, we are speaking of energy. There is an origin to the energy. We always have an experience. Just like there is sunshine here, but the sun, origin, is millions of miles away. So in the same way these energies also have origin. It's not that they are just existing without some source. And Kṛṣṇa is describing here in the Seventh Chapter—this is called Knowledge of the Absolute—how these energies are related to Him. Now, in the material world it's described that there are two energies. This is called bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā, inferior energy. This will be described in the next verse. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5). Now, this is describing the superior energy or the parām, the parāṁ prakṛti. And this is described, "Besides this inferior nature," which is this earth, air, water, fire, ether, "O Mighty-armed Arjuna, there is a superior energy of Mine which are all the living entities who are struggling with material nature and are sustaining the universe." So this earth, air, water, fire and ether... Just like your body, it is being sustained by the soul. And as soon as the soul leaves the body, then, of course, the earth, air, water, fire and ether, it is no longer sustained in this fashion. It merges into the various elements or energies. And in this way, we can understand that the material world is made up of two energies, as my spiritual master said: the inferior energy, or this aparā-prakṛti, earth, air, water, fire, ether, etc., and the superior energy, or the living force. So the point is that the life force does not come from a combination of earth, air, water, fire, ether. It is separate. That is a superior energy. And on this point we agree. Now, we have to find out what is the source of both the superior and inferior material energies, or what is God.
Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual energy. That is spiritual energy. When we find out the source of these two energies, that the beginning of spiritual life, or spiritual understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Robert Gouiran: If we, if we speak in scientific terms, there is an immaterial concept called the energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The spirit soul is also energy, and matter is also energy. Two energies, when they contact, the, the so-called expansion of matter takes place.
Robert Gouiran: Yes, and we could study in our laboratories the passage from energy to matter and back from matter to energy. It's what we call...
Prabhupāda: Matter is also energy.
Robert Gouiran: ...materialization. The process of materialization.
Prabhupāda: No, now, first of all, let us understand what is matter and what is spirit. Spirit is also energy, and matter is also energy. The matter, when it comes in contact with the spiritual energy, then it grows. Otherwise, it does not grow. Therefore the growing process depends on the spirit. Take this example, my body, your body. The spirit soul when it is in the womb of the mother, then it grows. The abdomen of the mother grows out. But if the spirit soul is not there, then it will not grow. There are many sex intercourse, but if the spirit soul is not there, the sex intercourse will not turn into pregnancy. Do you realize this?
Robert Gouiran: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: ...destroyed, it cannot be...
Prabhupāda: That is, that is spiritual energy. Two energies. We accept two energies. One, this material energy, which can be cut into pieces, which can be dried up, which can be moistened, which can be burned. But another, spirit, that cannot be done so.
Yogeśvara: If I remember correctly from the little bit of studies that I did in physics, I think it's also the physical definition that material energy is also indestructible, that it's transformable, but not destructible. Is that correct?
Robert Gouiran: Exactly, that the, that the... I was telling the definition of the energy. And if we start from pure energy, absolutely immaterial, pure energy, this pure energy can transform itself in two parts. One is called matter and the other I call anti-matter. And these two parts, they can annihilate together, and then you have back the pure energy. That is definition, our definition, of anti-matter. The anti-matter is what is produced with the matter from pure energy, and what is annihilated by matter to produce again pure energy. You can't, you can't produce our matter, ordinary matter, from pure energy. It's impossible.
Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God. We are chanting that,
- Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
- Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, they are the name of God. And Harā is the energy of God. So we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, or God, along with His energy. He has got two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. So at the present moment we are under the jurisdiction of material energy. So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly transfer me from the service of material energy to the service of spiritual energy." This is our whole philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means, "O the energy of God and O God, Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in your service." Because our constitutional position is to give service. Some way or other, we have been put in the service of the material energy. So this service can be transferred to the spiritual energy. Then our life is successful. That is our philosophy, bhakti-mārga, bhakti-yoga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Here we are giving service as Hindu, as Muslim, as Christian, as Jain, as this or that. These are designation. Designation. When we become free of the designation and then serve God, that is called bhakti or devotion. Just like we have manufactured Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion, this religion, that religion. But when the religion will be without designation—I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian, but I am servitor of God—that is pure religion.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What is there? What is the purport?
Brahmānanda: "As stated in the Fifteenth Chapter, all living beings are fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord. As such, the Supreme Lord is the beginning of all living entities. It is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtra-janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Lord is therefore the beginning of life of every living entity. And the Supreme Lord, by His two energies, His external energy and internal energy, is all-pervading. Therefore one should worship the Supreme Lord with His energies. Generally the Vaiṣṇava devotees worship the Supreme Lord with His internal energy. His external energy is a perverted reflection of the internal energy. The external energy is a background, but the Supreme Lord, by the expansion of His plenary portion as Paramātmā, is situated everywhere. He is the Supersoul of demigods, all human beings, all animals, everywhere. One should therefore know that as part and parcel of the Supreme Lord it is his duty to render service unto the Supreme. Everyone should be engaged in devotional service to the Lord in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is recommended in this verse. Everyone should think that he is engaged in a particular type of occupation by Hṛṣīkeśa, the master of the senses. And, by the result of the work in which he is engaged, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, should be worshiped."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is not the question of... First of all, decide there are two kinds of energies working.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Material energy and spiritual energy. So, so far material energy, they have come to the point of atom, and they are searching out. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, this material atom is all right. But this is apara. This is inferior. There is another superior energy, atom." What is that? "This jīva-bhūta." So why don't you not see it? How rascal they are. Jīva-bhūta is there. He is seeing jīva bhuta, living... So Kṛṣṇa is giving information, "Here is the superior atom." Why don't do they not see to it?
Acyutānanda: Because they are so sinful, they cannot see.
Prabhupāda: Yeah. That is the...
Acyutānanda: Like Duryodhana. Even people criticize Kṛṣṇa, "Why He could not convince Duryodhana to be peaceful?" Because there was nothing... He was so sinful that he had used up all his pious...
Prabhupāda: So that is the Duryodhana party.
Prabhupāda: Ah, vyadārayat. Then it will be preaching. There are two energies everywhere. The example is given: just like the sun, the two energies working, heat and light. Everyone can see. Parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Śakti means energy. So whatever we are seeing, that is combination of two energies of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is also saying the same thing. Parasya brāhmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Any child can understand. The sun is situated in one place, localized, and his heat and energy, atomic particles, is being distributed all over the universe. What is this fog? Eh? What is this fog which is obstructing seeing the sun? What is this fog? Hm?
Devotees: Water.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The water is also an energy of sun. Because heat is there, within the heat there is water. What is, the physists say? What is the source of water? What do they say?
Acyutānanda: They say all the energy is created from the sun, all the planets...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. The sun is heat. So the water is there from the heat. (break) ...these scientists, making research work to find out what is after atom, proton, neutron. They're searching out.
Prabhupāda: But for us there is nothing material. We have no such vision as "material" and "spiritual." Material means when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right. That is material. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer. So, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything Kṛṣṇa's. So when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right on everything, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material; everything spiritual. Everything is generated by Kṛṣṇa's energies, and there are two energies, material energy and spiritual energy. So in the material energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less or nil. And in spiritual energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prominent and very acute. I think I give this example somewhere. Just like this nail, and just little below, there is skin. Both of them are my body, but in the skin there is sensation; in the nail there is no sensation. But both of them are coming from the same source, the body. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Everything is Bhagavān but appears like different to the different vision. Therefore we take everything.... kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything..., in everything there is Kṛṣṇa's relationship. So there is no question of giving it up. Why shall I give it up? This is Kṛṣṇa's property. Why shall I give it up, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā, by mistaking it as material? Kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. So these Māyāvādīs, they say the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This material world is false, and Brahman is reality." And we don't say that. Everything is reality because it comes from reality. When it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is unreality. It is not properly being used.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have already explained, there are two energies. So if the energetic is eternal, the energy is also eternal. But the difference between the inferior and superior means one is manifested eternally and one is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. That is inferior. The matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Just like the cloud. What is this cloud? Cloud is also manifestation of the energy of the sun, is it not? But it is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. So that is the difference between the inferior and superior. Both of them are energies of the sun. But the cloud is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. But the sunshine is always manifested. But as energy, they are coming from the same source. (break) ...but matter is sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. Therefore it is inferior. And life is always manifested, therefore superior. I am soul, I am eternal. But this body is manifested now. It is existing eighty years or hundred years, but this body will be finished, finished forever. Then again another matter manifests. But I am the soul, eternal, this body or that body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). He is ever-manifest, either this body or that body, it doesn't matter. That is eternity. That is superior energy.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.
Bharadvāja: In the second part we're also showing that the Lord, out of His infinite kindness and mercy, has created the material world so that the living entities can be corrected.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.
Bharadvāja: We also have a diorama here of Isaac Newton showing the model of the universe to his friend, and his friend says, "Oh, such a brilliant thing, such a wonderful model. Who has made this?" And he says, "Nobody. It just appeared here." And he makes his point that if such a small thing has taken so much intelligence and skill, then what to speak of the great universe that we see before us? How could it have come from nothing?
| Page Title: | Two energies (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 23 of Dec, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=19, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 19 |