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Treatment (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Prabhupada Listening to Recording of His Own Room Conversation with Students -- April 25, 1969, Boston:

Student (3): I wanted material world, being in spiritual consciousness is to get...

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are trying that. Calling everyone, "Come and push your conscious." We are inviting everyone. There is no restriction. And it is very easy. Just try to dance and chant. That's all. In the treatment they are taking part. That child is taught something of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He'll be a very good child. So it is open to everyone. There is no restriction.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Everything for jīva souls, all relationship. Kṛṣṇa is one, the Supreme, and all the jīva souls are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the eternal relationship is there. Now they are exhibited in these twelve kinds of humor, either directly or indirectly. Jīva soul, a part and parcel, cannot be separated from the Supreme. Sun and the light, electric bulb, and the diffusion of light, they cannot be separated. But this portion is covered. It appears darkness. So when it is covered, that is called māyā, and he thinks that "I have no relationship with God," or "I am God," "There is no God." This is māyā. He is covered. He cannot see. So he has to be treated by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment, and the māyā will be separated, and he will see, "Ah, yes, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Then he comes to the direct relationship.

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: That is māyā, and that is material consciousness. Denying God in different way, "There is no God," that is also denial. "I don't believe in God"—that is also denial. "God is impersonal, void," anyway, whatever you say in that way, that is all insanity, māyā. Maya means insanity. Another meaning of māyā means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: ...my Guru Mahārāja was in his last days, these rascal doctors injected... Our, this Kuñjabihārī, Tīrtha Mahārāja brought so many big, big doctors. And he protested, "Why are you giving me injection?" He protested. He personally said, "Why are you giving me injection?" And if you bring a doctor, the rascals will not stop. "Oh, that is our treatment. We must try our best." They will plead like that. "To give more trouble to the patient, that is our business." Inventing new medicines means inventing new means of giving trouble. That's all. As soon as you ask them whether by injection the life is guaranteed, they will say, "No. There is no guarantee. Let us try, make experiment." Yes. In hospital, as soon as you get (microphone moving)... Whatever nonsense knowledge they have got, they make experiment, at the risk of other's life.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they do business, simply water they inject. Yes. Simply water and take fee. They know there is no necessity of medicine; still, they will inject some water, distilled water, and take the fees. I have seen the doctors and some, I mean to say, ordinary man, illiterate. "What kind of treatment you want? Injection or medicine?" So naturally, he will say, "The best one. I want to..." "Then you have to take injection."

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen, they have spoken like that. Because the patient will think, "Oh, I take injection, I'll be very quickly cured." He will canvass like that. Because if he gives a bottle of medicine, that will not be very costly. But injection in his hand, he'll (have) at least five rupees, that much. So he'll canvass like that, "What kind of treatment you want, injection or ordinary medicine." So he'll say, "Sir, best medicine I want." "Then you take injection." That's all. It is a fact that the whole human civilization is a society of cheaters and cheated. That's all. Any field. mayaiva vyavaharite. The whole world in this Kali-yuga: mayaiva vyavaharite. Vyavaharite means ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. Ordinarily, there will be cheating. Daily affairs. Not to speak of very great things. Ordinary dealings, there will be cheating. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, mayaiva vyavahari. The sooner you get out of this scene is better. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long you live, you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and preach Kṛṣṇa's glories, and that's all. Otherwise, you should know that this is a dangerous place. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ (SB 10.14.58). In every step there is danger.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No. There is light. The light is now visible. Light is there. Just like we say that our relationship with God is there. One is conscious. Another is unconscious. Otherwise God consciousness is there. Therefore any process that awakens that consciousness, that is perfect process. The consciousness is there. That is stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, an authorized book. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti.... This God consciousness is not something artificial. The God consciousness is there. Just like these European boys and girls, they're now devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Not that artificially we have imposed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness was there, by under certain process of treatment that has been awakened.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achar(?), taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard. In your country, five thousand drunkard priests were consolidated in a hospital for treatment. They're getting money. So there is possibility, we are opening temples, public is contributing. But if we become easy-goer, "Now money is coming, let us eat sumptuously and eat, eat and sleep, and if possible drink also." But, of course, we are restricting. But naturally when one man becomes idle, idle brain is the devil's workshop. So if he can get... Just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country. When he has no difficulty to get money, then what he will do? He will simply drink or invent some means of intoxication, naked dance. So they became very much perturbed. Venasyāvekṣya durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam, vimṛśya loka-vyaPrabhupāda:

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: How can I know that he knows God? Because he's making others to know God. Where is the difficulty? But if you go to a person who does not know God, that is your fault. If you go to a physician who is not actually physician, a storekeeper, then that is your fault. You must have the intelligence who is a physician. That much intelligence you have got. You see a signboard, Dr. such and such M.D., medical practicer. Now you go there and you see there are patients waiting for him, for his treatment, he's giving medicine and they are being cured. Then what is the difficulty to find out a physician? There is no difficulty. So if one is serious to be cured of the disease he must go to a physician. If he does not go to the physician, how he can be cured? Just like you have learned this guitar playing.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: The aim is that you must get free from your diseased condition. That should be the aim. It is not the way of life. You must get free yourself from the diseased condition. It is not a way of life; that is a must. If you want to be free from diseased condition, you must treat yourself properly. The treating is... Treatment is you surrender unto God and take to His service. This is simple. You are suffering, that's a fact. Everyone knows. Anyone who has got this material body, he is suffering. Nobody can say, "No, I am not suffering." Is there anybody? The body is meant for suffering, this material body. But because they do not approach the real physician, they think that they have got a material body, and that material body means there are senses, the sense gratification will give him satisfaction. Therefore he's simply after sense gratification, that's all. That is not treatment. That is still more complication.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...the injunction of the scripture, and still they say, "We do not know." So many drunkards priest, they are going to hospital for treatment ,and they are eating, and they are getting married man to man, and still they say, "We do not know what we have done." Just see how cheaters they are.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. We say it is nonsense. In future, it is all right. You say, "In future...", but where is your method for future prosperity? That I am talking... If a child is getting proper education, then we can say that he has got a good future. But if the child is wrongly directed, then where is his future? A patient who has gone to the physician and undergoing treatment, he can expect in future he will be cured. But if he's lying down on the bed, and does not know who is physician, then where is his future? He has no future. So all these leaders, they're rascals, and who are following these rascals, where is his future? He has no future. They're all rascals. Anyone accepting: "This rascal is a great scientist." So his future is doomed.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No. That also... Therefore it is called sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Three things there are for knowledge. Sādhu, saintly person; śāstra, scripture; and guru. So one statement we have to corroborate with other statement. If you accept somebody as guru, then you have to corroborate it whether śāstra says that he is guru or any saintly person says that he is guru. This is the way. Similarly, when you take a scripture, you have to know it from the spiritual master, whether that is actually scripture, whether it is accepted by the saintly person. Sādhu. Similarly sādhu also, whether guru says, "Yes, he is sādhu." Whether śāstra says, "Yes, he is sādhu." There are three things, sādhu-śāstra-guru. So to accept one, you have to take the opinion of the other two. Then you'll get the right way. Just like who is a guru? That is stated in the śāstras. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Śāstra says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "One must approach a guru." Then the same question comes, "Who is guru?" That is also stated, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. "He's well-versed in Vedas, knowledge of Vedas, and fully Kṛṣṇa conscious." He is guru. Just like how do you know that here is a medical practitioner? Before going for treatment, you find out. How do you find out?

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: No. It's the solution. If you want to stop that treatment of animals, you stop the slaughterhouse. Otherwise, first you keep them in the field to slaughter. That's already brute mentality. That brute mentality means next I think, "I could get more flesh if I didn't let this cow move. So let me keep him in a case, cage, in the dark so they have lighter meat." This is one stage of brute mentality to another stage of brute mentality. The next stage of brute mentality... They're already killing the unborn child. Now, next, the child is born. That's the next stage of brute mentality. That is predicted in the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Now, their theory is that when the child comes out of the womb, then he gets the soul. Is it not?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not within the womb.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But we don't charge anything. Free. I began this treatment in New York, and it is coming effective.

Haṁsadūta: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: I think you should adopt this means. A simple method. Don't charge anything. Simply ask him to do this. He'll be cured. (pause) Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Nirmalam means completely cured. Mala means dirty things. And nirmala means just opposite, no dirty things. Nirmalam. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. When the senses are freed from all dirty things, then it can be engaged in the service of the Lord. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: There are many instances but this is the injunction of the śāstra. And practically also. Suppose a man is a medical practitioner. He may be born in a brāhmaṇa family or śūdra family. Nobody wants to know to which family he belongs to. If he sees that he is a medical practitioner, he has passed the MD examination and that he is practicing then people accept him as doctor, medical man. Nobody asks him, "Are you a brāhmaṇa, then I make my treatment with you?" Nobody asks that. So, this is śāstric injunction. Then later on this caste brāhmaṇism, śūdraism made the whole thing, whole Hindu culture, Vedic culture spoiled.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but you have to get the eyes. That I say. Because you are blind, you have cataract, I have to operate. You'll see. You'll see. You come to treatment. Therefore the śāstra says, "Go to guru and be treated and try to understand." But how you can see with your blind eyes, cataract eyes?

Karandhara: Well, that vision, that seeing, is supramundane. They only consider the mundane vision.

Prabhupāda: Yes, supramundane, everything is supramundane. Because... How do you know that there is nothing in the sky? Now you say it is vacant. So your eyes is deficient. It is not vacant. There are innumerable planets, but you cannot see. You cannot see. You are blind. Therefore, because it is not in your power to see, you have to hear from me. "Yes, there are millions of stars there." You have to accept it. You cannot see. But because you cannot see does not mean that it is vacant. It is deficiency of your senses.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is calculation, calculation. This astrologer, this astrologer was a very big astrologer and when I was in service, Dr. Bose's laboratory, so Dr. Bose was treating one patient. He was vomiting blood. So he was treating as tuberculosis. Then he could not cure him after giving all medicine. Then he asked the astrologer, this astrologer who made my horoscope, "What is the matter? Panditji, can you tell?" So he calculated. He said, "You are making wrong treatment. He has got some sore in the throat. It is not heart." And he treated, he was cured.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like a disease. Somebody cures very quickly, somebody cures, takes some time, according to the, what is called, acuteness of the disease. Somebody dies, somebody falls down. It is a treatment. Just like some of our students in Hawaii, due to bad association, they've fallen down. But whatever sincere service one has given, that will never be lost. That's a fact. It will again revive. For the time being, as it is said by Arjuna, kala-karma-tamoruddham. (?) Just like the sky is clear. It may be covered immediately by some cloud. And again the cloud is removed, the sky is clear. So this māyā is just like cloud. It comes where the temperature is very high, the cloud does not come. All depends on the circumstances.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Business or whatever nonsense it may be, but our first proposal is that you become sinless. But they will not agree. They will remain sinful, and still they will say, "In God we believe, we trust," these slogans. "We go to church, we pray," like that. This is the defect. A man has come for your... You are a physician for treatment. As soon as the physician says that "You don't do this," you say, "I cannot give up this." Then how he will be cured? Let him rot. This is the position.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) There is no mercy. If he says, "No, no. I shall, I shall rub over your belly and it will be cured," is that the means? It must go on, operation, surgical operation. That is treatment. If you become kind, "No, no, no, it is very difficult. I will give him something. It will cure," That is not treatment. (Hindi) (break) Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu (BG 16.19). No mercy. "You surrender. Otherwise, if you are envious, then I am sending you to the darkest region of ignorance."

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...one is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he cannot have any good qualities. And if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, all the good qualities will automatically come out. So therefore this is the only treatment, to educate people how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be settled up. One remedy.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...come for treatment. Why shall I? (break) Eight years old, older than me. So I am seventy-eight. Maybe eighty-six. Yes. He was also of the same age. Older than me.

Dr. Patel: You were all the time in Allahabad. You must be knowing them from very close part.

Prabhupāda: No, he was my customer. I used to go to his home. And he was coming to my shop. Yes. He was my customer. When 1928 congress was there, I sent him one letter that "I want to become a delegate and go there." So immediately, "Yes, you come." So I went to Calcutta and I told his secretary that "Panditji has told me like this." "Yes, take this ticket." Yes. I became... So I was criticizing my friend because the delegate fee is one rupee and the reception committee fee at that time was twenty-five rupees. And still, they were in the last seat. And because at that time Motilal Nehru became president, the president, the province in which the president becomes, that provincial member occupies the first seat. So we occupied the first seat from Allahabad.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Whole attempt is to be out of miserable condition. Just like medicine. What is the medicine? Medicine means an attempt to get out of the miserable condition of disease. But you cannot stop disease. You may discover very improved method of medical treatment, but you cannot stop disease. That is not possible. You can, I mean to say, discover many means to stop death—that is going on—but you cannot stop death. That is not possible. So in this way... And the Bhagavad-gītā says that you might be very advanced in civilization and scientific knowledge to make improvement, the condition of life, but you cannot make solution of these things, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Birth, death, old age and disease, you cannot counteract these things.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the system. If you go to a physician, he will try to understand what is the cause of the disease. Then he makes treatment. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: They agree about knowing the cause of the disease, that it's necessary to know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, what is the cause of the suffering? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says ignorance of himself. The man suffer because he's ignoring himself.

Prabhupāda: So let him become in knowledge.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I may suffering, but I am under treatment. But you are not under treatment. You will die. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says Zen Buddhism is also a kind of treatment.

Prabhupāda: But if you do not know what is the goal of the treatment, then how the treatment will be successful? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says we may choose a goal for ourselves spiritually, but after all, we're the ones who chose the goal, so it's all an individual question.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not choosing, God is asking to do this.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Now, the efficiency, just like medical treatment. If you know what is the end... Āyurvedic treatment it is called nidāna, nidāna, or diagnosis. First of all, before treating a patient you first of all diagnose what is the disease. Then you can give the proper medicine. But these people do not know how to diagnose. The diagnosis is that they must realize the Supreme. That is the disease. Because they have forgotten the Supreme, they are suffering. The symptoms are different. But they are treating only for the symptoms, not for the root cause. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to treat the patient from the root cause. They have forgotten God. Let them remember God.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

The more we advance in so-called material, what is called, amenities, we forget God. We forget God. So the inherent, dormant, propensity is to become servant of God, but material association is checking him. Therefore if he... Just like now psychological treatment—a crazy fellow, he goes to the psychiatrist and he talks with him. Gradually, talking, talking, he cures him—similarly, these men who have forgotten or these living entity, if they associate with devotees and they constantly talk and hear about God, then again he revives his God consciousness. Yes. So we are, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any other... We open many centers, and we talk, we sell our literature. His lordship has seen our books? You can show some of the books.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: That we have already said. There is no question about it, that the driver is there, the car is there. So we must take care of the car, but the first treatment or the first care is for the driver. Just like dead body. The everything is there, present. The machine is there. Now, somehow or other, you again drive it. Why you cannot drive it?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says the body cannot be driven because the spirit is gone, and that he admits...

Prabhupāda: That means the driver is gone. So who is important, the body or the driver?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): Both, he says, are important.

Prabhupāda: Both is there, but comparatively, which is more important?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): The spirit is.

Prabhupāda: So that is the defect, that the modern civilization, they are not taking care of the spirit soul; they are simply taking care of the machine, body. Therefore the problems are there. You asked, "How to solve the problems?" The problems are there on account of this, that they are not taking care of the driver; they are simply taking care of the machine body. So if you take care of the driver, then he will remain sane, he will drive nicely, the body will not be disastrous, he will live peacefully. This is the problem. If the driver is careful, then he will not require very frequently the mechanical engineer for the car. He will keep the machine in order. If he keeps himself sane, then he keeps the machine also order.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: But you are saṅkīrtana. You cannot be infected. (break) ...party is infected, then preaching will stop. If doctor is infected, then treatment will stop. Doctor is never infected. They have good precautions. Similarly, when you are engaged in saṅkīrtana, māyā cannot touch. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. (break)

Tripurāri: ...disciples and you accept our karma also. Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tripurāri: That is manifest sometimes in disease on your body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You are trying. How you can see? You rascal, you are blind. You, how can you see? You have to treat your eyes, then you will see. We are seeing. We are not blind like you. You are blind. You require treatment. You come to the treatment. You cannot see.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I'm trying because I have got this material body like you, so I have to suffer like you. But I'm making treatment. You are not making treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the effects appear to be the same on everyone.

Prabhupāda: No. We are not so much after doctors or medical...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your students also suffer from diseases and all...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So long the body's there, one has to suffer. That we tolerate.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No. Our viewpoint is that in the material world, who has accepted this material body—anyone, but we specially take the human society—they require treatment, everyone. Everyone is mentally diseased, and therefore he is unhappy. Everyone. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād-guṇa (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has no sense of God consciousness, he is diseased mentally. He requires treatment. The whole human society, especially at the present moment, they have given up God consciousness. They are not interested. That is their disease. And everyone requires treatment. So the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the mass treatment of the materialistic persons who are mentally diseased.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, our study is that unless one is mad, he cannot remain in this material world. So everyone is mentally diseased, and they are concocting their ideas, different ideas. And they are overlapping, my idea, your idea overlapping. Therefore there is clash, unhappiness, violence, individually, socially, familywise, nationwise. This is going on. Therefore everyone requires a treatment, psychiatrist's treatment. And the best treatment is to induce a person to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise, a person who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious, he is basically a mad man and requires treatment. (pause) Ghostly haunted man... You have experienced ghostly haunted man?

Paramahaṁsa: In Woodsaw (?) there was a ghost. In St. Kilda the devotees used to think there was a ghost, but not a man who was called...

Prabhupāda: There is ghost. And sometimes ghost attacks a man. Because he has no material body, he wants to act through other's body. So the man who is attacked, he forgets himself, and he speaks and walks according to the dictation of the ghost. That is called ghostly haunted man.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He talks nonsense. Suppose his father comes before him, he calls him by ill names, like that. He talks nonsense. So anyone who is too much materially affected, he also talks nonsense. Anartha upāsamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. The treatment is bhakti-yoga. That we are teaching. Without any exception, we accept everyone a patient for psychiatric treatment. He has this book?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then all other books we can show him.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Therefore everyone requires the psychiatric treatment so that the mind may be transferred from matter to spirit soul. Then he will be cured. The disease is of the mind. Harāv abhaktasy kuto mahād-guṇa mano-rathena. Everyone is riding on the chariot of mind. And the mind is taking him here and there, here... And the yoga practice is also treatment. This is also yoga, bhakti-yoga, and this ordinary haṭha-yoga, that is also treatment of the mind. Treatment of mind means controlling the senses. Yoga indriya-samyamaḥ. Mind is the leader of the senses. So if the treatment of the mind is done properly, then the senses work properly. The example is the madman. Because the madman's mind is not controlled, he is acting in a way—people say, "Here is a madman."

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: He requires treatment. Just like anyone who is in the prison house, it is to be accepted that he is a criminal. Without any study, without any exception we can accept all the prisoners as criminals. (break) ...gradually appreciate. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ (CC Antya 20.12). This treatment is in the beginning just cleansing the mirror of the heart. That is the treatment. Just like a mirror, when it is overcast with dust, it requires cleansing. So the mental mirror is covered with material dust. So it has to be cleansed. That is the treatment. And when it is cleansed, you can see your real face in the mirror. Similarly, as soon as our heart disease, contaminated by the modes of material nature, is cleansed, you can understand what is your real position. That is the success of psychiatric treatment.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, you should work for the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. But do not think that because you working very nicely, the result will come. That is the... Because it is not in your hand. Therefore, karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana: "Your duty is to go on working, but don't expect the result as you desire." That will never happen unless it is sanctioned. Just like a man is suffering. Your duty is to appoint nice physician, nice medicine. But is there any guarantee that he will live? Why does he die? You can say that "I have given the best medicine and best medical treatment." Still, he dies. What is the cause? What do they say? What is the cause?

Amogha: Perhaps they didn't know the right...

Prabhupāda: (break) Wherefrom the force comes? Why don't you inquire? Why do you say that sometimes you are forced to commit mistake. So why don't you inquire wherefrom the force coming? Did you inquire that?

Devotee (2): I tried to, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The force means there is Supreme, He is forcing. Without His sanction, you will be forced to commit mistake.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.

No opinion, no democracy. When you go to a physician, doctor, for treatment, the physician does not place his prescription for opinion of other patients: "Now I am prescribing this medicine for this gentleman, now give me your opinion." Does he do that? The all patients, what they will think? The physician is the perfect person.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That means you go to physician, "I want to do everything I like; still I want treatment." This is the position. You want...

Director: I didn't come for treatment. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No, no, I say... (laughs) No, no, you have come for treatment here because you have failed to control the society, your activities; therefore you have come here, treatment. But when I prescribe medicine, you don't accept.

Director: I haven't come for treatment.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Any, anyone. That is the position. For treatment we go to a physician, and the physician prescribes medicine, you reject it. So how you will be cured? That is the position. When the prescription is given you want to put it in the votes of other patients. What the patient will know about the prescription? They are patients. There is no question of...

Director: If I would come here and want to join your movement I would accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, you join or not join, you have come here to consult us if we can help your activities. But when we prescribe, you do not accept it. That is your position.

Conversation in car -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So therefore, the treatment is, some way or other, induce them to come and chant and dance with us and take prasādam. This program should be accelerated.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You can advise only, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be all right," this one medicine. You can simply make plan how they will chant and take prasādam. Then everything all right. This simple method. Bring them: "Please come here, chant, dance, and take prasādam." They will be all good men. This process. Otherwise if you give them good advice, they will not be able to carry it. They are so sinful. Their treatment, the only treatment, is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Somehow or other, bring them together. Let them chant. Let them dance and take prasādam. They will be all right. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other means to rectify them. We are opening centers different parts of the world just to give them chance, "Please come here, take prasādam, chant, dance, enjoy," but that transcendental enjoyment will make them correct. We are the best friends of the human society.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you require treatment to cure this disease. Yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam. And if you cure this disease, then—you are after happiness—you will get transcendental bliss and enjoy it eternally. This is human life. Everything is discussed in the Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam (SB 5.5.1). Anantam means unlimited. You are searching after happiness, but this is limited. Even if you enjoy sex life, that is also limited for a few moments. But anantam. That is... You will enjoy it eternally. Just Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. He is enjoying eternally. So you can join with Him. That information we are giving.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position. Therefore those who are under treatment, they must be strict observation—he may not do something wrong so that treatment may be hampered.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, that's... Our treatment is for the diseased person. So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man. Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as a poor man's hospital or rich man's. Hospital is hospital. And everyone being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not diseased. Although he is diseased number one, but he thinks that he is not diseased. That is the difficulty of the rich man. But we are thinking everyone is diseased. And you know better than me being police. There are criminality amongst rich men and poor men alike.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Devotee: I was reading. There's a group called A.A., Alcoholic Anonymous, and they have a treatment for curing this disease. And it's the only one that's been successful. And one of the initial steps in achieving success in this method of theirs is that one agrees to the possibility of an ultimate reality or God. And because of that, they've had success in curing alcoholism.

Prabhupāda: What is that process?

Devotee: Well, it's a self-analysis. It doesn't go very far, but at least they accept that God exists and...

Prabhupāda: Self-analysis, that requires intelligence. But our process is, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." There is no difficulty. So it is better than A.A.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Question is that India is small, he is suffering from malaria, and you are big; you are suffering from cancer. So a big man, big disease; a small man, small disease. But we wants the diseaseless. But you become proud: "Oh, we have got big disease. For treatment we pay the physician thousands of dollar. You pay eight annas. Therefore I am better. I am able to pay the physician millions of dollars. You cannot pay. Therefore I am big." (break)

Brahmānanda: The hospitals here have better facilities than in countries in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. It is simply proportion, five upon ten and five millions upon ten million. The proportion is the same. Because the figure is five million over ten million, that does not mean that the proportion is not the same. Put five upon ten or five million for ten mill..., the result is the same.

Morning Walk -- July 29, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: That is the fact. They are dissatisfied with the treatment of man. The grievance is that they do not get husband, home, children, like loitering on the street. That is their aspiration: they want good home, good husband, good children. That they are not getting. Oh, it is a very big lake.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Then die. (laughter) Do you mean to say this modern medical treatment is guarantee for your living?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? That is also not guarantee. If you see the herbs and plants are no more effective, then if there is no guarantee in your modern medical, there is no guarantee. So why should you spend so much money? As soon as I go to a doctor, immediately twenty dollars. As soon as go to purchase some drugs, immediately twenty. If I have no money... And still that is not guarantee, so why shall I spend so much money?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: If you don't take advice from Kṛṣṇa, it will continue. You take advice of Kṛṣṇa; it will be all right. The disease is there; the treatment is there. If you take treatment, the disease will disappear. If you don't take, the disease will continue and you will die. That's all.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: The man who owns this house, his wife died recently from cancer. He sent her to London for special treatment, very costly, and they could not do anything.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Just see. Where is this? That is their science? Take money and do nothing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At least in the past when there was disease people would depend on God more. Now they depend on the doctors.

Prabhupāda: No, still they have to depend on God. Otherwise this man spent so much money. God denied, "No, your wife will not stay," and she had to die.

Brahmānanda: (break) ...when she went to London for treatment she became worse.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like vitamin pill—no hand.

Morning Walk -- November 1, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: No, they do not know, but we know. How in your belly gas is formed? How? There was no gas, but automatically the gas is formed. And therefore sometimes, if it is much gas, then you go for treatment. So this is the practical. The gas is also generating from my body. So as I am an individual, insignificant body, if there is possibility of generating little gas, so Kṛṣṇa's gigantic body, why not gigantic volume of gas? This is the explanation.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise what will be the impression of the sādhus, that one treatment to one and one treatment to another? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...require, everything is there by God's arrangement. (break) ...heavy load, there is elephant, truck. Elephant is truck, horse is carriage. Everything is there by nature's... And for small load, the bulls, the asses. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Where he is? He has gone back? In the kitchen they are preparing tea? They are preparing tea in the kitchen?

Brahmānanda: Tea. Was he making tea in his kitchen?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't know that. (break)

Prabhupāda: So Nanda Kumara, you see me. I shall talk with you at half past eleven. (break) ...from this side. (break) ...flies. So do the modern botanists, er, biologists know all these things? In our śāstra it is, jalaja nava-lakṣani sthavara lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-śaṅkhyakaḥ.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam, yes. I am layman. I cannot say why I have got this fever. You can... By analysis, you can say. So therefore śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. Śāstra says, "You analyze his blood, and if these symptoms are there, therefore this disease is there." That is śāstra, not conjecture. You don't diagnose by simply imagining. No. That is not scientific treatment. You analyze blood, stool and this, and find out what is the germ. Then you analyze. And in the śāstra the symptoms are there, analytical, that "This kind of disease, the symptoms will be this, this, this, this." That is śāstra, not conjecture. Kāraṇa guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "This rascal has infected this body on account of his particular connection with the modes of material nature." In the smṛti-śāstra it is stated how one gets tuberculosis, how one gets this disease, that disease, different pāpa.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: No, read it. Let us see.

Harikeśa: OK. "The fundamental premises of the theory of knowledge of Mock(?) and Averniu..., Avanarias(?) are frankly, simply and clearly expounded by them in their early philosophical works. To these works we shall now turn, postponing for later treatment an examination of the corrections and emendations subsequently made by these writers. 'The task of science,' Mock(?) wrote in 1872, 'can only be: 1. to determine the laws of connection of ideas, psychology; 2. to discover...' "

Prabhupāda: That is not science, ideas.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So our arrangement should be to give them some prasadam, very nice treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've got to do this. We've got to do this.

Prabhupāda: And if important man should write something in the visitor's... Reception.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There should be a reception, proper receptionist.

Prabhupāda: So where the reception?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will sit?

Bhavānanda: We'll make some arrangement.

Prabhupāda: Make it immediately. Reception.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as there is sickness, that means punishment. So if you want to be punished, then violate the hygienic laws. You can see that there is hospital and medical treatment and medicine—for whom?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sick people.

Prabhupāda: No, for the human society. Not for the birds, beasts. But they follow nature's law. But this rascal violates nature's law and suffers.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, even when the father-mother is supposed to give protection, that is also not right conclusion. Otherwise there are so many fathers and mothers who is giving protection to his children. The father-mother, when the child is sick, the father-mother gives all—one who has got means—best medicine, best medical treatment, but the child dies. Where is the protection?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. Even that is...

Prabhupāda: It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: That is the material disease. When you contaminate some disease, do not try to find out the history. Treat the disease. That is intelligence. How I got this disease, instead of inquiring, better treat the disease. That is intelligence. Go to the doctor and get treatment and cure it.

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda, karma-yoga, Kṛṣṇa has said, "Do your duty, look after..."

Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is your duty.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the proper treatment. (laughter)

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one common philosophy also held by a lot of religious groups that God can be understood directly from within, and that no guru or spiritual master is necessary. If I desire to approach God, and if He's all-powerful, He can instruct me from within. They feel like this. Therefore they dispute our claim that we understand God in a different way, that you need a genuine spiritual master. And yet when we approach them, one man will say he has God within his heart and he understands God in this way, and another man is receiving instruction from God from within the heart, and yet he's saying another thing.

Prabhupāda: So?

Devotee (2): Yet, they continue to claim like that, so...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, when God teaches Arjuna... His realization from within should be the same as Kṛṣṇa is teaching to Arjuna. It should be confirmed by śāstra.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was saying that these people say "God is instructing me from within," but they all have different philosophies.

Prabhupāda: But he's a rascal, and who accepts him, he's a rascal. How do you think that God is speaking to him? How do you accept it? How do you accept that God is speaking to him?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nothing can be changed. But according to the time you have to... Just like in Kali-yuga the smṛti order is kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). So you have to do this. Just like a physician gives a medicine that "Morning you take this medicine, in the evening you take this medicine." It is not a change of treatment. It is according to the time a different medicine. But it is recommended by the physician, not by your whims. Śruti-smṛti cannot be changed, but they have recommended different process in different times. So the reference to the śruti-smṛti is there, authority is there. It is... You cannot modify.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore guru is necessary. Everyone is perplexed. Nobody can decide himself. Even a physician, a medical man, when he is sick, he does not make his own treatment. He calls for another physician because he is sick, his brain is not in order. How he can prescribe the real medicine for himself? That is natural. So similarly, when we are perplexed, bewildered, we cannot make any solution, at that time the right person, guru, is required. It is essential. You cannot avoid it. So in our present existence we are all perplexed. Arjuna is representating the perplexed position of the materialistic person. And we are actually all perplexed. So under the circumstances, to give us real direction a guru is required. Now, here is the example that Arjuna decided Kṛṣṇa as guru. He did not go to anyone else to accept as guru. The explanation is there. Find out. Na hi prapaśyāmi. "Without you I don't find anybody..."

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And that Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsaḥ. Now here Arjuna is experienced, "You are the Supreme Brahman." So he has seen the Supreme Brahman. So you make Arjuna guru, Kṛṣṇa guru. Arjuna is representative of Kṛṣṇa, friend of Kṛṣṇa. So why do you go to a bogus guru? You must be cheated. Guru is essential. It is necessary. But take the real guru. But if you go to the bogus guru, you must be disappointed. For your treatment you need to go to a physician. That's all. When you are diseased you cannot say, "No, no, I don't want to..." It is necessary. But go to the real physician. Don't go to a cheater. He has no knowledge in the medical science, and he places himself as "I am physician, MD." Then you'll be cheated. The guru is necessary, that's a fact. But go to the real guru. Who is real guru? Real guru is Kṛṣṇa or one who has seen Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna. Take them. Then you'll be benefitted. And if you go to a bogus man who does not know Kṛṣṇa, who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you must be cheated. So the answer is guru is absolute necessary. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic injunction, that one must go. But he must go to the real guru. And who is real guru? Who knows Kṛṣṇa. Take, for example, Arjuna, how he studied Kṛṣṇa. And he says, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12). Read the translation.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that treatment must involve a lot of process.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but by treating you can get, that's all. The metallurgists, they know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So actually the Vedas must have known these techniques, because otherwise they cannot get this gold so easily.

Prabhupāda: No, there are gold mountains also.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Rūpānuga: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are the great physician. Everyone should come under your treatment. They're taking this hari-nāma as a bitter pill. But we are tasting it now, and after chanting and chanting, we're tasting, it's becoming sweeter and sweeter.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. This is all of us?

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: So you keep that.... (break) They are opening hospital for giving medicine to the shirt and coat, and where is the man's medicine? Washing the shirt and coat, laundry work. They do not know that the man within the shirt and coat requires different treatment, different, he has got different necessities, different life. If I simply wash the shirt and coat, does it mean the man is happy? They have no common sense even. "Yes, we are supplying petrol to the car. It must drive." "Well, sir, to give good to the driver who will drive?" "Doesn't require, petrol is there." That's all. This is their intelligence. They are supplying petrol. Will the driver eat, drink petrol? They have no knowledge. He requires spiritual food. And these rascals, they do not know it. They'll say that petrol is sufficient both for the car and the driver. This is their intelligence.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Attachment maybe, that is not a very important thing. But if there is a process, how to become independent of this body, why should we not take it? That is intelligence. Just like a man suffering from illness, attachment or no attachment, he's now suffering from that illness, but he has put himself into hospitalization under some physician. So that process will cure him and he'll not suffer from this disease. That is the hope. Or that is the fact. Similarly, circumstantially, we may be dependent on this material body, but if there is a process how we can become independent of the body, why should we not take it? The same example, if a man is diseased, he's captured by the disease. Attachment or no attachment, it is difficult. But he must put himself under treatment so that he can be detached from it. That is intelligence. I am caught by the disease. So let me suffer without any treatment. That is not intelligence. I must take the process of treatment by which... That is explained there, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this treatment so that after giving up this body you'll not have any more material body. And as soon as you become free from this material body, there is no suffering. But as soon as you get a material body, you must suffer. So if there is way and means to avoid this material body, and remain in our original spiritual body, why should we not take it. That is intelligence. That is a very simple thing. Read it again.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal. Now make your treatment that you may not become criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor inquires, "How it began?" How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you treat me. That's all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it has begun. Now I've come to you, make treatment. That's all. Why should we waste our time to find out the history how it began? That beginning can be possible at any moment.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, they are also asuras. They do not know what is the meaning of meditation. That is psychology. It is not meditation. Or some medical treatment. Meditation is different, real meditation.

Devotee: What is... What is real meditation?

Prabhupāda: Real meditation is to find out the Supersoul within the core of the heart. That is real meditation. God is situated in everyone's heart, so the yogis, they try to find out the Supersoul within the heart. That is real yogi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginam. This is real yogi, trying to contact the Supersoul. They are searching after the God in His all-pervading feature. But, ah, some of them, they want to become one. That is asuric. One with God, that is asuric. Because they are being defeated by God, so therefore they want to become God to stop this defeat. That is asuric. Therefore they will never be able to be, but they are trying for it.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So, if from... Just like medical science... It is also a medical science. Bhavauṣadhi. It is... auṣadhi means medical science. This is bhavauṣadhi. By this treatment one becomes relieved from the material disease. Bhavauṣadhi. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. But the medicine is so nice that it is pleasing to the ears and to the heart. The medicine pleasing to the ear? What is that.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He can do that because He is Kṛṣṇa. Immediately He can do. That is His inconceivable energy. Now by medical treatment man is made into woman, and woman is made man. Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Yes, there was that article in the Blitz the other day.

Prabhupāda: So formerly, by simply desire of very exalted person like Lord Śiva and others, they could turn a man into woman, woman into man.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's Kṛṣṇa dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that here is a Christian, here is a Muhammadan, here is a Hindu? He takes as patient. Never mind what he is. And he gives treatment. He never thinks that here is a Christian patient, here is a Muhammadan patient. He is patient. Give me this, bring him medicine. That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan." Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient, special care should be taken for him?" No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And he was old. So he had to agree. Otherwise, the whole thing was catastrophe. So the king said, "Yes. She's not married. If you like I can offer my daughter to you." Then everything was settled up. But the daughter was young, and he was like her grand, great-grandfather. Match was not at all suitable, but he had to offer. So this girl also took it seriously, and she was serving the old husband very faithfully like honest, chaste wife. Never mind. Then, some days after, the same saintly person was visited by two heavenly physicians, aśvinī-kumāras. The aśvinī-kumāras, they had some difficulty. They were not allowed in the society of the demigods while drinking soma-rasa. They had some defects, something like that. So when the physician came to see Cyavana Muni he said that "If you can give me young age, beautiful, you can make me by your treatment beautiful young man, which is very pleasing to young girls, then I shall give you the facility of drinking soma-rasa in the society of demigods." "Yes." So he made him very nice beautiful-looking young man by taking him to a certain lake, and they dipped down and all of them became fresh young men, beautiful, very beautiful. So his chaste wife, she could not recognize, "Who is my husband?" They look all very beautiful young men.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They dipped down in a certain lake. In this way, he became a very beautiful young man. Then for soma-yajña, his father-in-law, the daughter's father came. He came. So he was surprised, "How is that? My daughter is with another young man?" He became angry. "My dear daughter, what is this? You are defaming your husband's family and my family." He began to chastise like that. And just see. Because he sees that "I got my daughter married with old Cyavana. How is that, with a young man?" Just see. Condemned like anything. And she was laughing. She knew that "I have not changed my husband. A change of body." Then she said, "My dear father, don't be angry. He's your real son-in-law. He has become now young by treatment." Then he was very pleased and embraced his daughter, that "You are so nice." This is Vedic civilization. Even one has got old, going to die husband, she cannot change. This is the chastity.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Whatever your father and mother has chosen, that's all. He's your worshipable husband. This is the... This point I wanted to bring. And her father was surprised. "How is that? I got you married with an old man? Somehow or other, circumstances I was obliged. How is that you have picked up one young man?" He chastised her like anything. Then when he came to understand that the same old man has become now young man by medical treatment, then he was satisfied. So you cannot change. I have seen it. One, my father's friend, he was very old man. My father was also... He was at that time not less than sixty-five. But his wife died, and he was married with another young girl. But his sister forced him to marry. That "Unless you marry, who will look after you? You have no children." But I have seen that young woman who was married with that gentleman... In our childhood we used to called her didi. Didi means elder sister. So the relationship was very thick and thin. But that old man, not less than sixty-five, and this young woman, utmost twenty to twenty-five. She was serving the husband like anything. We have seen it. There is no question of changing or being dissatisfied.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is an argument like this, that "You have gone to a physician for curing your disease. Why you are not cured?" This is nonsense question. It will take some time to be cured. Do you mean to say as soon as you go to the physician, you become cured? Do you think? Why don't you answer like that? A foolish man will say like that, that "You have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why you are now suffering?" Yes, suffering will be... Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So the assurance is there. You take the treatment. Why do you expect? Immediately you go to the physician. A father gets the daughter married, expecting a child. Does it mean as soon as she's married, immediately child? And if a rascal says, "Oh, she is married, and there is no child?" Because he's a rascal. You must wait. Now she is married, it is sure she'll have child. That's a fact. But if the rascal wants, "Now my daughter is married. There is no child?" What is this nonsense? This question is like that, that "You have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They will have to take thrice bath and eat frugally, not voraciously. If they want real treatment, that will benefit them. If they have got some ideas of yoga and we have to cheat them, that is impossible.

Jagadīśa: Why should we have to cheat them?

Prabhupāda: They want to be cheated but we cannot cheat. For getting some customer you have to flatter them—that is not possible. And while explaining the ślokas, you have to stress on this point, that this is bona fide; all others are cheating. That requires on your preaching power.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Our business is sai vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ (SB 9.4.18). First of all is mentality. Man-manā mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. "Always think of Me." This is the cure, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Beginning: always think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the treatment. It is proved. Mentally he'll be cured. And then physically after. Nice (indistinct). They do not know how things are happening. (japa) Thinking, feeling, willing. First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation. Most rubbish civilization, modern misleading, soul-killing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Very difficult to live with them. Still, we have to do this Kṛṣṇa's business.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That is our treatment. If you want that treatment, this is our treatment.

Rāmeśvara: So I have been thinking for some time... I have discussed this idea with Yadubara, because you wrote in your letter to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa that we should use movies also to convince them. So I had this idea to have a movie photographing India at different places...

Prabhupāda: In movie there is chanting, dancing.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... But for that, no severe treatment should be accepted. Better not to take. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the past, when your health has not been good, they have begun chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa in all the temples...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Callous means we... Callous means we can take treatment, but we cannot protest against the doctor, that "Why you are not giving me food?" We take treatment. That is saner. If the doctors ask me that "Don't eat," I take the treatment. I don't protest that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" You are doing that, rascal, that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" But one who knows things, he doesn't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava way. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). "Oh, my Lord, You are keeping me in this tribulation. It is Your great mercy." When Kṛṣṇa keeps me in starvation I take it as mercy. I don't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava. The saner person, when he is, the hospital, he is put into starvation, he takes, "Oh, doctor, you are so merciful you are curing me." And the rascal will protest, "Oh! You are keeping me in starvation?" And other friend comes, "Why you are keeping him...?" They're all rascals, all rascals, cent percent.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This brain thing now, another thing they have done. One of the things they do now in the hospitals is they give this shock treatment on the brain.

Brahmānanda: They put electricity into the brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The deprogrammers are using this. They call it "psychological readjustment," and they put electrical wires...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they put some machine in my head.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killed his own son because he was smoking marijuana. He couldn't stand that the boy was smoking marijuana. Then after killing him he went to the police and turned himself in. So he came before the judge, woman judge, and he said that "I could not help it. This boy is my son, and look what he was doing. It is abominable. I had to kill him." And the judge said, "Yes, I can understand your feelings. It was intolerable." And she let the man go without one day jail sentence. No reprimand even. So this is the thing that is starting to happen now, that they are lobbying in the Congress in the United States to pass laws that if someone is abnormal, then the parents should have the right to commit him to psychological treatments. Even the child may be fifty years old and the parent may be seventy years old, if the parents think that child is not sane, then they have the right to get the child committed. So this is being passed in a couple of states, and already in California...

Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is brainwash.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That is brainwashing. In fact, they may have given her shock treatments and drugs. They give very heavy drugs with the idea that they will make her forget about Kṛṣṇa, and now they will bring her to court to testify against the Society, that "They did this to me. The Society was making me do this and this, and now I'm much healthier."

Prabhupāda: No, then the authorities are, mean, determined to stop this.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Diet treatment is very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a difficult treatment for the Westerners. Because they have no self-...

Prabhupāda: They want to be cured immediately. Go to the doctor. "Give me injection, give me tablet, cure me immediately." That is the Western treatment. Immediately stop it. Here also. A man, a worker, he's earning twenty rupees a day, and the doctors also take advantage of this rational. "You want to be treated quickly or let...?" And naturally he will say "Quickly." "Then you have to take injection." Injection means each injection at least five rupees. He may inject water.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): And that type of man requires a special treatment.

Prabhupāda: Yes, a special treatment...

Guest (1): So the books which you have written for other people.

Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): The younger generation, as you are presenting, of India and the developing countries it's okay. In some way or another they have known the existence of God, whether they call Him Christ or someone. We can convince them later. But the very fact that they have denied the acceptance, that requires a special treatment. So you should make something different (indistinct). I find it very difficult to go to...

Prabhupāda: And one thing, very commonsense reason...

Dr. Sharma: Common sense is not common. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense... Just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human... Everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible. So so many living entities are coming from the material nature, and the offsprings are there. Then who is the father? And the father is there. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). "I am." So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible. As soon as you deny the existence of God, means you are insane. You require treatment. There is no doubt. This is common sense. So many lives are coming from the earth. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Either earth, water, air, there is life. They are coming. And the children are there, mother is there. Should we not inquire who is the father? If you say without father they have come, that is foolishness, madness. Immediately, he's mad. So you cannot deny the existence. If you deny, then you are mad. That is the sign of insanity. They require treatment. That is explained in one Bengali poetry.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is the fact. You cannot deny the existence of God. And God is personally speaking, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). So anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman. He requires treatment. That is the problem. There is no institutional asylum for these madmen. And we are trying to establish this asylum. Now it is up to them to come to this asylum and take treatment. Otherwise nobody can deny the existence of God. It is not possible.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Just like if you are mad—the mind is not in order—you go to a physician to treat you. That is the way. If your mind is not in order, what do you do? You go to a psychiatrist, you go to an expert for treatment.

Young man (4): No, no, this is... No.

Prabhupāda: That is the way. If you do not go, then you'll become mad.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) Treatment? Ei. They are always reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (1): Reciting nāma-saṅkīrtana. They are doing all the best and most proper thing.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) And Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes?

Prabhupāda: Where is that magistrate's...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The one from London?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How the magistrate has... We are getting good judgment in so many big, big cases.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...the notice of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. " 'His treatment of the verses through his transparent translations and purports show that his scholastic and spiritually realized grasp of the text is incomparable. It is his understanding of the goal of all knowledge, as shown by his skillful pen, that makes him rightfully the founder and ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. I am very very happy to see that many different types of libraries and institutions of the world are snapping up his encyclopedia.' "

Prabhupāda: So the Communist country they will be following.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But certain things are going to have to come out. For instance, two men seriously injured are refused outside medical treatment. That can be proven.

Prabhupāda: No, so many other things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who gives them the right to cut the telephone wire? That's criminal. That is against the law of the government. You're cutting government property. That's not our property. Telephone wires, all those things, electric wire.

Prabhupāda: That is purposefully planned.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...difficult to go from this room to that room. Unless one or two men help, I cannot go even to the toilet.

Governor: I see. Whose treatment is going on?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One local kavirāja, Ayurvedic doctor.

Governor: I see. I invite you warmly to come to Madras. Stay at Raj Bhavan. And we have the best medical team of Madras government at your disposal. We have got the best doctors in whole South Asia. The physicians are the best government doctors. All two, three doctors, are at the top. People come from Malaysia.

Prabhupāda: Medical men.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. But I am not very inclined for medical treatment, their injection, operation. (laughs)

Governor: No, they won't give you injections. They also... There doctors give yogic treatment also, and nature cure treatment. But... See I have taken that Ravi Shankar Maharaj. You've heard the name in Gujarat, he was one of the very great saintly person, Ravi Shankar Maharaj from Gujarat. I have taken him there. He's stays in my Raj Bhavan, and best doctors attending him, he is improving the health. And we have very good Raj Bhavan, big Raj Bhavan.

Prabhupāda: After all, the thing is that so long we have got this body, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), you have to accept. This is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So the human endeavor should be diverted how to stop this repetition of birth and death. That is the prime instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In Jhaso(?) hospital J. P. Narayan was admitted? Again he was sent to foreign country. This is the difficulty. They want up-to-date scientific treatment, which means taking blood, injection, operation, like that.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Gītā, in one purport you say in the beginning when you undergo treatment, even when you're jaundiced the sugar candy is very bitter. These slight side effects are bitter for you, but if you keep taking the treatment, we know that that will eventually clear up.

Prabhupāda: This light massage he is doing...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: ...it is giving me comfort.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: We can find out. And that can be given. It won't interfere with your treatment at all.

Dr. Gopal: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about appetite?

Dr. Gopal: Anything more?

Prabhupāda: What I can say? You belong to some Vaiṣṇava sampradāya? Eh?

Dr. Gopal: Yes, of course, I am Vaiṣṇava, but not by initiation.

Prabhupāda: No, your family belongs to which Vaiṣṇava sampradāya? There are four sampradāya.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that? No. This doctor's treatment is failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's starting to guess.

Prabhupāda: Now... Where is Bhakti?

Bhavānanda: Bhakti-caru is just waiting to go and get the kavirāja in the front. Do you want me to bring him?

Prabhupāda: Call him.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Doctor treatment is finished. Don't try any... They will simply guess and make huge complication.

Bhavānanda: Here is Bhakti-caru, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So... (Bengali) Rāmānuja-sampradāya kavirāja (Bengali) Doctor treatment, failure.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, I have no dis... Doctor treatment failure.

Bhavānanda: Doctor treatment is finished.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do that. Take this, this allopathic treatment, failure.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's a failure, allopathic treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you be interested in hearing any of the Bhāgavatam that they have edited? I thought that would be nice.

Upendra: I'd like to give Prabhupāda a bath.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be nice. You sit down, all, and let us try.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Upendra wants to know if he can give you a bath.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the man must be very... He's not so smārta. Because he will allow Westerners to live with him, he's favorable. So Smara-hari, one of the devotees here... We felt that if we do not find from Jalan or anyone a good kavirāja in Calcutta, then let us send two devotees to Śrī Raṅgam to meet with this head pūjārī and get his help for finding out a proper Rāmānuja kavirāja and bring him to Māyāpur. And immediately let us go to Māyāpur. Why should we sit here waiting here? Because actually we don't find any benefit from waiting here. The idea was to give change of climate, and what is the purpose of waiting for that to happen? Because we're not gaining anything by staying here except that the weather is becoming colder, so it becomes more and more dangerous to travel in cold weather. And as far as bringing a kavirāja goes, now we've already seen there's not going to be one in Vṛndāvana, so at best, we'd have to bring him from Delhi. But whether a man has to come from Delhi or come from Śrī Raṅgam, he's going to have to come and visit and stay with us. And once the treatment begins, if we get a Delhi kavirāja, he's going to have to keep coming down here. We don't want to have to stay here for more than one or two weeks. But the treatment is going to be longer than two weeks. So then we'll be stuck here. If we depend upon a Delhi kavirāja we'll be stuck here. Best thing is someone from Calcutta, because then they can come frequently to Māyāpur. But in the event that we cannot get someone from Calcutta, then we should take the help of one kavirāja from South India. And your dream was that it was a Rāmānuja kavirāja who was preparing the medicine. I think that after it's prepared he may administer the medicine for some time, but afterwards we can find another kavirāja. If he has to return to South, then another kavirāja may continue the treatment.

Prabhupāda: There is no treatment.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, in the meantime, some treatment should be there. In the meantime, before you get this makara-dhvaja, some treatment should be there.

Prabhupāda: What treatment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that this Vanamali Prabhu, he has made this medicine. So why not find out what is this medicine from him and you can take that in the meantime. He's made this medicine, Vanamali.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to him, this is makara-dhvaja. I mean, I don't discount that this may be Makara-dhvaja. I am not rejecting it simply on the word of that Rāmānujī kavirāja who was here. Otherwise, then we simply wait for the makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: That we'll do.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, consulting... When we want direct treatment, how you can consult him?

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he should stay here if he doesn't want it. What will you do if, supposing after three days after the kavirāja leaves, suddenly Prabhupāda's condition changes in such a way that it wasn't counted on. Then what will be done at that time? Then it means that this junior man suddenly has to give diagnosis and treatment?

Bhakti-caru: That's the best. I mean if he stays here, then there is nothing...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If he can't stay here, then he should help to take Prabhupāda to Māyāpur. And actually that will make him very responsible, because then he'll see that Prabhupāda is taking risk simply to be under his care. So that will make him feel even more obligated to take proper care of Śrīla Prabhupāda even after going to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: This is the right conclusion.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So let us go. And keep me in the open air. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing is that we must present it to the kavirāja that we are depending on his care. If you actually feel this kavirāja to be good and helpful, then we must present it in such a way that "We fully depend upon your treatment. Therefore, as you... We cannot depend on any junior man, because there may be complications at any time. Therefore, when you feel Prabhupāda is ready, you take us to Māyāpur. And if your other business in Calcutta is so pressing, then take us now." And in that way he'll be forced to feel responsible, because he'll see that we are going on his account.

Prabhupāda: Talk like that.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can hold him because, no doubt about it, the few extra days we gain will give you a little added strength. The main thing is that you should be feeling some positive effect from his treatments, because ultimately that is the real deciding factor. Our opinion of him.... He may be very nice looking, but if the medicine works, that is what counts.

Bhavānanda: Of course, we don't know, but we're all feeling that you're feeling some effect. You told me the other night.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I am not going to die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they make you, if you don't have the disease, then they'll make sure you get it, simply to be right.

Prabhupāda: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good (indistinct), that's all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I'll not object, I will follow. Is that all right?

Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you tell us is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. And from Vrindavan, if he's not getting business stop all, everything.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh. If he agrees to stay a couple more days, we should take advantage of that to give you more time to gain strength. Not that we're overly eager to rush out of here. Our plan is that we want to go where he is, that we want you to remain under his treatment. That is our point. If he was willing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, if after all he wants to go, why not leave earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the whole idea of going is that the medicine is supposed to be having effect. So the longer we have for the medicine to take effect, the stronger you should become. And the stronger you become, the easier will be the journey. It would only be a question of one or two days extra, because in any case he'll want to leave after a few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some rest, backside, I can sit down.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Even half hour, if I am fainting... So if I die without medicine, without kavirāja, what is the harm? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the kavirāja, his treatment is that first of all he has to take care of your liver and kidneys before giving you strength. He said there's no question of you getting any strength until your liver and kidneys are healed.

Prabhupāda: So take the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the first part of his cure is to help your liver and kidneys. Then, when they are functioning properly, you'll be able to eat and other things which will automatically give strength. Medicine will not give strength, but medicine can cure the organs which are now not working properly.

Prabhupāda: No, you take medicine from him.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Doctor gives treatment, not reliable. They make experiment.

Gaura-govinda: Yes.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali about jagannātha-prasāda)

Prabhupāda: Not... Kono... Give me some taste. I lost taste.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that starving and chanting and little gaṅgā-jala or... In this way let me pass away peacefully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, first of all let us see this treatment out properly.

Bhavānanda: That you can always do. Fasting, that you can always do. But let us see this treatment through. We have hopes in it. And for moving you, what arrangements, that kavirāja has said he will come here and move you personally. But he didn't want to move you for the next fifteen days.

Prabhupāda: What you know?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: If there is no actual strength...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's why now we won't move you. But if strength comes, then we can move you. The whole reason for going to Māyāpur, one of the main reasons...

Prabhupāda: I admit that it will be very nice if I can go to Māyāpur.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So it was argument, not that we have rejected. Upāyān cintayet prajñāḥ...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean the treatment? Yes, I have learned to take everything very philosophically, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I mean I took it that you were presenting the..., you know, presenting the whole picture to be considered.

Prabhupāda: I am now puzzled. Still, I am thinking.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Now you can go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I'm always nearby. I'm in the house all the time. (break) One thing I feel, that while there hasn't been any great improvement, on the other hand, I do not find that there has been any negative reaction or any regression since the time the kavirāja's treatment began. Of course, Your Divine Grace says that you feel weaker now than you did a week ago. If that's a fact, then...

Prabhupāda: Not so very weak.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have not inquired about that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. His point was that they depend upon his presence for treatment. That means that even if they were to die because he was not personally available to treat them, he did not think that it was very much important in comparison to treating Your Divine Grace. Because they are materialists, so whether they live or die does not affect anything so much. But because you are a great transcendentalist, your presence means that so many thousands of people can be saved. How are you feeling, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Not so good. I am passing stool.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they will see me, I have no objection. I want little milk from them, that's all. (pause) So far my presence is required (for) management, I think I have bequeathed, properly you can manage. Hm. It is to be admitted failure, the so-called medical treatment, failure.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: Because, I mean, I don't have any faith in the doctors or their treatments because they're never working and ultimately it depends on Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. He can exercise His will in any condition and you know, as you say, that if you go out and if you recover then it's very good. And even otherwise, I mean if that is the decision of Lord Kṛṣṇa, then this is a very glorious way. (pause)

Prabhupāda: All seriously consider this submission and let me go.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: We heard that Your Divine Grace had a dream that a kavirāja of the Rāmānuja-sampradāya would treat you and bring you back to strength, and this kavirāja says that in a very short time, following the treatment, you would regain your strength. Although he hasn't got all of the medicines yet, but within a day or two they'll all be prepared, and he says within fifteen days you should be quite improved in strength. So far, he seems to have been quite sincere.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's sincere. I'll drink milk. Whatever strength is obtainable, there will be.

Jayapatākā: Like to follow the same treatment, only while traveling.

Haṁsadūta: So we should meet and make a program for going around Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will continue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if the treatment is continuing, if the treatment is working, why not continue it under the guidance of this kavirāja for some time? His point is this. This is what I've seen, Śrīla Prabhupāda, being your secretary all these months, that whenever you took milk you would get cough. For the first time I see there's no cough coming. Another problem, you couldn't pass urine. Now there's double the amount of urine. Another thing, you couldn't pass stool. Now it comes normally. At least it comes without any artificial means. So the one thing that has not yet come is strength, and kavirāja is suggesting what you yourself had always said, "If I can drink milk, I will get stronger." So if the kavirāja's treatment... To my feeling it has worked. At least symptoms... The symptoms have been better under his treatment than any doctor so far.

Prabhupāda: That will work.

Page Title:Treatment (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:04 of Dec, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=124, Let=0
No. of Quotes:124