Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja explained that you haven't got to learn anything extra for Kṛṣṇa's service. Whatever you know, you just apply it... Then you become successful. Because our time is very short. We do not know when I am going to die. As soon as I am out of this body, I am completely under the grip of nature, and I do not know what kind of body I am getting next. Of course, Kṛṣṇa assures that His devotee will never be vanquished. He will get good body. But I do not know what kind of body I am going to... Therefore before finishing this body I will have to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness very nicely. That is my success. Śabdhvā sudurlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many of evolutionary process, I have got this nice human form of body in America or India, in civilized nation, or rich family, I have no economic problem. That's all right. So it is to be understood they are simply wasting. Oh, how miserable it is. They get the opportunity, and they are simply wasting for sense gratification just like cats and dogs. Whole day working, whole day laboring. Why? Sense gratification.
To be understood (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood. The fighting spirit is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is exhibited at a certain period just to teach us that when fighting should be taken. Fighting is not very good thing, but if there is necessity... Just like in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. The Battlefield of Kurukṣetra was organized by two rival parties. One party was pious; another party was impious. So Kṛṣṇa took side of Arjuna, and he was victorious. That is the history of Kurukṣetra fight. So the Lord wanted to exhibit His fighting spirit. And who will fight with Him?
Prabhupāda: Just like in New York there is a building, Empire State Building. It is 102 stories. So one who has gone up to the topmost story, 102, it is to be understood that he has passed over the fiftieth story or fortieth story or tenth story or all the stories. So one who has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows everything, the meditation, the yoga, this practice, that practice. Everything is there. That we can give proof. It is practically. So we have to simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be included there.
Interviewer: What is your hierarchy in Kṛṣṇa conscious? That is, do you have anything comparable to bishops and the hierarchy of the Christian faith and of other major faiths? That is, you are the spiritual preceptor, and who are all those below you, between you and the congregation, the members?
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this idea came? The idea came because it is originally here, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is coming from the Supreme; otherwise where do you get this idea? Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without being in the origin? Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10), Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the root of everything." So if this energy, male and female combination, is a necessity, so wherefrom this necessity came into existence unless it is there in the origin? Therefore it is to be understood that the Absolute has energy. He has got different energies. By His energies He is acting, and that is confirmed in the Vedic sūtra, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The Supreme Absolute Truth has multi-energies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate, multi-energies. And svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca, and by His energies he's working in such a nice way that it appears that it is being automatically done.
Prabhupāda: This machine energy is accepting and a nice thing is coming. Similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation is the manifestation of the energies. The rascals, they do not understand. And when it is stated that everything is Brahman, that is to be understood that everything is working under the energy of the Supreme Brahman. That is real meaning. But this is simultaneously one and different. When this tape recorder will play, it will play exactly I am speaking to you. There will be no difference of voice. If somebody hears from other room, he'll understand that Swamiji's speaking, but still, that speaking is different from me. Because my energy is working there. Similarly, there are two kinds of energies. Just like when I am speaking, this is my real energy, and when this tape recorder will speak, that is also my energy, but that is separated energy.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So real life, real variety, real beauty, real knowledge, everything in reality is there in the spiritual world. It is only reflection. Therefore Bhāgavata explains that janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme Absolute Truth is cognizant, abhijñaḥ. Cognizant and svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. In this way, the explanation of Brahma-sūtra is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yad vaiṣṇavānāṁ priyam. Yasmin paramahaṁsam ekaṁ paraṁ jñānam jñeyate. The knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is to be understood by the paramahaṁsa, the highest perfected man, paramahaṁsa. It is not ordinary thing.
Devotee: Swamiji, if all things here are a reflection of what is perfect in the spiritual world, then shouldn't hate and frustration and despair and prejudice also appear in the spiritual world?
Prabhupāda: That is the beauty. So everything is there, but here, that thing is reflected, pervertedly. Therefore misunderstood. There is so many other corollaries. You see? But you must know everything, that without being in the Absolute Truth there cannot be relative manifestation. This world is relative manifestation. So these things are not to be understood in the beginning, but as the questions came we discussed something. But you must know, as the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is emanated from that Absolute Truth. That is the fountainhead of everything. We cannot manufacture anything. It is not possible. But this is shadow and that is reality. And in the shadow... Just like photograph. You find that everything in detail of your beautiful face in the photograph, but that is not reality. That's all. So you'll find everything in details, all... Or you can understand actual photograph, actual idea, actual notion of the spiritual world by scrutinizingly studying this material world. The impersonalists.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Please excuse me. Please go out. Please go out. Don't trouble. You are finding faults with Vyāsa.
Guest (4): We only want you to be understood here.
Prabhupāda: (shouting) I am not sama-darśi! I don't say I'm sama-darśi! I don't say, sama-darśi. So you say sama-darśi. Sama-darśi.
Guest (2): You should be sama-darśi.
Prabhupāda: But I am not in that stage. I say because you don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you are sinful. That is my darśana.
Guest (4): So then you should be also seeing as sama-darśinaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Any religion. Because God is one. It is the science of God. The "two plus two equal to four," it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. "Two plus two equal to four" is a fact for everyone. Similarly God is fact for everyone. Now how to love God. This is the only process. That is.
Interviewer: Now do you claim then that your way of loving God is the way to love God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.
Prabhupāda: Because God is one. It is a science of God. If two plus two equal to four, it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. Two plus two equal to four is a fact for everyone. Similarly, God is a fact for everyone. Now, how to love God, this is the only process. That is.
Interviewer: Now, do you claim, then, that your way of loving God is the way to love God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.
Prabhupāda: So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And siddhi means perfection. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that one who goes back to home, back to Godhead, he has attained the complete perfection. So perfection means when one realizes that he's not this body, he's spirit soul. Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). That is called Brahman realization. That is perfection. And saṁsiddhi means after Brahman realization, when one is engaged in devotional service. Therefore, one who is already engaged in devotional service, it is to be understood that Brahman realization is there. Therefore it is called saṁsiddhi.
Bob: I, I, I ask you this very humbly, but do you feel diseases and sickness?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bob: Do you personally feel disease and sickness?
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree.
Prabhupāda: All scientific. As this is winter season, so there will be a summer season. Anyone can say that after two months there will be summer season. Similarly, these ages are also, what is called, changing. So now it is Kali-yuga. After this Kali-yuga, there will be Satya-yuga. Cycle. So everything is happening. When there is winter season, everyone feels cold. So there is no question of asking. The particular type of age and its reaction of the quality of the nature, it will be there. So as there are many Kali-yugas, so it is to be understood that many times these things happened, and many times again will happen. Seasonal flowers, fruits. In the past, there were many times all those flowers and fruits, and in the future also they will appear. What is the difficulty to understand?
Prabhupāda: That, that I have repeatedly said, that you Americans, you are..., you have already the grace of the Lord. According to our Vedic formula, when a man is born in rich family he is understood to be possessing the grace of the Lord. So you Americans, you have got sufficient riches, you are sons of rich men. So this is the grace of God, janma aiśvarya, to take birth in a high family, to possess riches; janmaiśvarya śruta (SB 1.8.26), to become learned scholar. Just like you are going to the moon planet. Your scientific knowledge is advanced. And śrī, śrī means beauty. So you are beautiful also. So considering all these four points, it is to be understood that you are in favorable condition, favorable consideration of the Absolute Truth Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, then all your these material opulences plus Kṛṣṇa consciousness makes your life perfect.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm. Western mind... I, I do not find any difference between western mind and eastern mind. Because so many western mind is changed. Yes. So there was no difficulty. Two, two plus two equal to four is to be understood by the western mind and the eastern mind. You cannot say, because you are western mind, you'll say, "No, two plus two equal to five." You cannot say that. So there may be some influence of the culture, but that is superficial. When you speak the real truth, science, that is equally applicable to the western mind and eastern mind. There is no difference. If you speak the real truth... Two plus two equal to four, mathematical calculation, nobody will deny, either western mind or eastern mind. Yes. So he must be reasonable. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Simply by becoming Sanskrit scholar or Latin scholar, it is not sufficient. He must be God-realized, purified. Then it is possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "By your these blunt senses it is not possible to understand what is God, what is His form, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His kingdom, what is His paraphernalia." These things are to be understood. God means... Just like when we speak of "king." King does not mean alone. King means he has got his queen, he has got his kingdom, he has got his secretary, he has got his minister, he has got his palace, he has... so many things, king, royal. When we speak of Queen, we immediately remember the Buckingham Palace, his (her) bodyguards and so many, so many other things.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. What is material activity, what spiritual activity is. These are to be understood. But we are sure, if simply this chance is given, anywhere, let us execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and speaking something from this Bhagavad-gītā. We are getting practical result. Just like you were describing, that in communist country.
Haṁsadūta: Ah...
Prabhupāda: You just explain to them.
Haṁsadūta: They have a big youth festival there in East Berlin. Maybe you know? "The Festival of Youth."
Prabhupāda: They are to be given cloth and shelter and everything, the arrangement. Similarly such gigantic universal manifestation, millions and millions of living entities are there. They have to be trained up. They have to be provided with all necessities of life. This responsibility's there. And actually God is doing that. He's giving food. He's giving necessities. Why? There is some aim. The aim is that they have misused their independence. Try to reform them again (indistinct). This is the aim. All these living entities in the material world, the have misused their independence. Therefore, they are in the material world. Otherwise why should they remain in the material world? Anyone who is in this material world, it is to be understood that he's misused his independence. (end)
Prabhupāda: So these things have to be understood.
David Lawrence: So once again you'd say that this was a...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly said bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Simply through devotional service one can understand Me. Others will misunderstand. (break)
David Lawrence: Yes, one doesn't become concerned with these what really are the superficials of an inner state. You accept and appreciate the validity of bhakti.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Prabhupāda: Kick his face. (laughter) So that means unless the Kṛṣṇa conscious student go there, he is never perfect. That is to be understood.
Karandhara: So we tell them, "If we're the best devotees, then you come and surrender to us."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He admits this.
Hṛdayānanda: Karandhara, does Prabhupāda know about what happened in Houston?
Karandhara: Yeah, he saw the article.
Karandhara: He doesn't say specifically. He just said that generally the country is degraded and people have become apathetic, and the morals have reduced. He was referring to things like Watergate, political scandals, and the youth degradation.
Prabhupāda: But why they have degraded? That is to be understood... Not known to them.
Karandhara: Yes. Actually they don't have the scientific analysis. They just have some vague understanding that things are falling apart.
Prabhupāda: Here are the causes. Sinful life. (break)
Prajāpati: ...the affair, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Oh, then the country could be...
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) But anyone who does not know... That is confirmed in another place: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is the sign. When one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, then it is to be understood that he's really wise. Otherwise...
Dr. Patel: Anādi mat-paraṁ brahma na sat asat tad ucyate. Neither sat or asat. Neither existence or nonexistence.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Not even by sat.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sat and asat. Asat... Cause and effect of this material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṇa, is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṇa personally. So his experience is first-hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is like this, Kṛṣṇa is like that." If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said, "You are, you are the Supreme Personality, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal..." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: Vibhum, yes, all-pervading. Just like the same example. The sun. The sun is all-pervading by sunshine, but still, sunshine is not important as the sun globe. This is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa... Let us understand one line. Param Brahmān. Brahmān, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. But they are Para-brahman. Īśvara, everyone is īśvara. That's all right. But not everyone, Parameṣvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Dr. Patel: Everyone is puruṣa, but not puruṣottama.
Prabhupāda: So paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12). Dhāma. Dhāma means resting place. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma, and pavitram. Pavitram means you are not contaminated by these material modes.
Prabhupāda: Now, this is to be understood, how "You are all-pervading by Your influence, by Your power." That means "You are always there." "You" person is there. Just like a big man, big businessman, is sitting in his room, but he is all-pervading, all-pervading.
Dr. Patel: But he must have got special powers deputed to certain people. And these are that vibhūtis.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is vibhūti. That does not mean... Māyāvādī philosophy is: "Because He has spread everywhere, therefore He is imperson." He remains person, without any change, avyaya. But still, He is spread. That he is asking that "How I shall understand You, that You are spread everywhere."
Prabhupāda: Entered. So just like it is to be understood. He's very intelligent. Now, I am... As soul, my magnitude is described. What is that? Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśa agra, the tip of the hair, divide into hundred parts. And again take that one part and again divide into hundred parts. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). Now, it is simply, it is to be imagined. Kalpitasya. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ. That is the magnitude of the jīva. Now, that magnitude of jīva has entered in this body or in the elephant's body. Now, which is important, the body is important or that small particle is important?
Prabhupāda: Without understanding, if you follow like a storm, that is no use. That is no use. Slow, but sure. Go slow... And that is the defect in the modern. If somebody can recite Bhagavad-gītā like storm, it is to be understood he has perfected himself. No. Let him explain at least one word of Bhagavad-gītā. That is wanted. Slow, but sure. That is going on. The professional Bhāgavata reciters, they jump over Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā. The rascal does not explain the first line of Bhāgavatam, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). It requires many years to understand that one word, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), and he jumps over, "Bhāgavata recitation means rāsa-līlā." That is going on. That has spoiled the whole atmosphere. Therefore that rascal has been able to challenge that Kṛṣṇa, that, what is that, rural?
Prabhupāda: This is to be understood. The same thing, the supremacy of Kṛṣṇa, is being repeatedly stressed in so many ways, and still, by reading Bhagavad-gītā, they do not accept the supremacy of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go further, sir?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: (reads next verse in Sanskrit, 11.19)
Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "netram-eyes..."
Prabhupāda: ...even the richest man, their wife has no bangles. You see? And they are jewelries. Jewelries. Cow, butter, throwing butter like anything, and silk sari and enough food grains. What is more want for material advancement? That is real material ad... You have got everything, material needs. (break) If a man can feed his wife and children, then he is successful. There is no question of charity. There is no question of charity. But here it is said they were also giving in charity. (break) ...stopped to become real brāhmaṇa and give instruction to the society, and they also stopped giving charity to the brāhmaṇas. So therefore the society is so fallen. There is no instruction from the brāhmaṇas and no charity from the kṣatriya and vaiśya. (break) ...proṣita bhārtṛkā. By the dress a woman is recognized. When she does not dress very nicely, it is to be understood that her husband is out of home.
Prabhupāda: And because Kṛṣṇa is giving knowledge perfect, past, present and future, therefore it means that He has got eternal body. This is the proof. One should understand everything with logic. Is it not? We forget because we have no eternal body. Last birth, what I was, what you were, we have forgotten, because changed body. Death means forgetting. So because Kṛṣṇa is giving perfect knowledge of past, future and present, therefore it is to be understood that He has got eternal body. And eternal body means there is no misery. Misery means janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), to take birth, to die... (aside:) (Hare Kṛṣṇa.) And to suffer from disease, to suffer from old age. These are the miseries. So because Kṛṣṇa hasn't got this temporary body, therefore He is not suffering from these things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, you will see always, young man. You will never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as old man, because He is eternal body.
Prabhupāda: ...arrange meetings in the school, colleges, societies, big, big halls. Because they may not come. They are not attracted to the temple meetings. They think, "This temple is temple, some priestly class." They want philosophy, logic, science. So they have to be convinced. Not sentiments. So those who are advanced, they are not in favor of religious sentiments, because they have got experience, "Now, some sentiments..." But they do not understand what is this sentiment. Therefore they have to be understood through logic, philosophy, science. (break)
Girirāja: ...meeting a week from Saturday.
Prabhupāda: Oh, where?
Girirāja: "Because You are the Absolute Truth, there is no difference between Your mercy and punishment."
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is to be understood. If we understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Absolute Truth, then this is understanding, that either suffering or enjoying, it is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. There must be some purpose. When Kṛṣṇa puts me into suffering, there must be some purpose. So we should welcome because it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Tat te 'nukampāṁ susumīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātmā-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). (Hindi) (break) "...misdeeds. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He is reforming me, slightly suffering. I would have suffered very greatly on account of my past deeds, but He is kindly accommodating me by giving little suffering. That's all." (break) ...by the wife of Kāliya.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not imagination. That is another foolishness, to imagine a goal. If we imagine some goal, that is another rascaldom. We have to understand what is the goal of life from superior. Just like a child. He does not know what is the goal of life, but his parents know he must be educated. So goal has not to be imagined. Goal has to be understood from superior. So if the superior man is also blind, then he cannot lead other blind forward. If a blind man takes the position of superior, then he will lead these followers to the ditch only. That's all. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says who can understand that someone is blind or not blind?
Yogeśvara: Who can judge.
Prabhupāda: But thing is that this desire is there everywhere. But whose desire is standard? That should be understood. Everyone is desiring. But whose desire is to be followed? What is the actual, factual desire? That is to be understood. Unless you do not know what is the standard of desire, then this fighting will go on. You desire, I desire... (German) (break)
Vedavyāsa: ...saying that knowledge is important also...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: All of them. That's all right, but comparatively, the sun-god is the source of everything. Therefore he is important. Therefore God is expanded by His energy. And God is the energetic. But comparatively, although there is no difference between the energy and the energetic, the energetic is more important than the energy. When there is sunshine, it is to be understood that sun globe is there and the sun-god is there. But in this sense the sun-god, the sun globe and the sunshine, they are not different, one, because every one of them has the same quality, heat and light. But still, here is the sunshine. It does not mean the sun-god or the sun globe is here. The sun globe is 93,000,000 miles away from us. So therefore, it is to be understood, they are simultaneously one and different. This is the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That is this. Therefore I am particle; He is whole. Therefore difference. When God says, "I am," and I say, "I am," there is difference. I am particle "I am," and He is whole "I am." (laughter) Another, a millionaire says, "I am," and his servant says, "I am," but both the "I's" are same? So God is great. He says, "I am." He is great "I am." And I say, "I am." I am small "I am." Therefore this "I am" and that "I am" is different. This "I am," when I say, "I am," and God says, "I am," this "I am" and this "I am" is different. So not always I am the same. So far I am concerned, my identity, your identity is concerned, that is all right, one. But you "I am" and I "I am" not, different. The soul as soul, it is all right. But as particle, as whole, they are different. Yes, that is to be understood.
Prabhupāda: Your consciousness, your identification, my identification, my consciousness is different. And because we are different, therefore we are considering what is the ultimate goal. So in spite of difference, you can say "I am," I can say, "I am," He can say, "I am," but that does not mean there is no difference. My "I am," I am different from you, "I am." This is to be understood. I can say, "I am," you can say, "I am," but this "I am" and that "I am" is different.
Guest: May I ask a question, please? Master, perhaps... It seems to me we have sort of misunderstood. These people is trying to inquire whether or not a sort of a mantram I would say invented here in the western hemisphere or a so-called master is or is not good for realization of the self. But I am thinking more in terms of the question, it is perhaps more suitable to make the question a question, not affirmation. "Who am I?"
Prabhupāda: Then you understand that Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything, and then your knowledge will be perfect." This is the... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Whatever we see, that is, the source is Vasudeva. Do you think this nice flower has come out without any brain, this nonsense philosophy? The so-called scientist will put some bombastic word, "this, that..." What is that explanation? Nobody can understand. It will be understood by them only. They will put some language in such a way that it is to be understood by them. Unless they explain, nobody will understand. They say it is automatically being done, nature. That's not the fact. Nature is an instrument. Just like this wonderful machine, computer. But still, there is operator. But they have no common sense even, that where is the machine that is working without any operator? Where is that machine within their experience?
Prabhupāda: If the animal comes out alive, then it is to be considered that the Vedic mantras are being recited correctly. Not to kill and eat, no, no, that is not the purpose. Just like in laboratories, they make some experiment on the animal, similarly this is like that. The animal is sacrificed, and he is rejuvenated in young life. Old life is sacrificed, and he gets a new body. Then it is to be understood that in this ritualistic ceremony the mantras are chanted correctly. That is their power. But because in this age such learned brāhmaṇas are not available, therefore it is stopped. No more.
Prabhupāda: Here it is said, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya karmaṇām (BG 7.28). That, nobody's interested. Everyone is doing all sorts of sinful activities. And Kṛṣṇa says, yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpam. He can understand Kṛṣṇa. But nobody is prepared to give up sinful activities. And how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is not very easy to be understood. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). One who is siddha, perfect, yatatām api siddhānām... (BG 7.3). Out of many millions of siddhas, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. This is... These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. But nobody cares for that. He lives in his own way, and he has become a big authority. That's all. This rascaldom is going on. Only these few European and American boys, they have taken my words seriously. And therefore, with their help, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is moving. Otherwise, where is Indian? You are young men. If I say, "You come and join us," you won't do it. But they have done it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot understand the principles of life and morality, Jesus Christ's instruction that "Thou shall not kill." So how you become philosopher?
Carol: How is the love to be understood? Between people or through inner sort of communication with a higher self?
Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda said that you could not understand the simple instruction, so where is the question of understanding philosophy? Not love. Philosophy.
Guest (1): What is the symbol of the staff here? There's a symbol of that, is there?
Prabhupāda: That is a big thing to be understood. (laughter)
Guest (1): Can't be answered in one sentence, huh?
Prabhupāda: That is the symbol... That requires good explanation. If you come to our temple, then we shall inform you.
Devotees: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Guest (1): (laughs) Good talking to you folks. You know...
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom you are coming?
Prabhupāda: Another meaning of guṇa is rope; it is to be understood that the conditioned soul is tightly tied by the ropes of illusion. A man bound by the hands and feet cannot free himself—he must be helped by a person who is unbound. Because the bound cannot help the bound, the rescuer must be liberated. Therefore, only Lord Kṛṣṇa, or His bona fide representative the spiritual master, can release the conditioned soul. Without such superior help, one cannot be freed from the bondage of material nature. Devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, can help one gain such release.
Prabhupāda: Just like part and parcel of our body, this finger, it is always engaged in serving the body according to the desire of the person. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our duty is to serve God as He wants service from us. This is perfection. If the finger or any part of my body cannot give service to the whole body, it is to be understood that the part is diseased. Similarly, when we do not give service to God, that is our material condition, or diseased condition, or miserable condition. And if we learn how to love God, how to serve Him, that is our healthy condition. So in the material world everyone is busy how to satisfy the senses. Nobody is interested to satisfy God. So in this condition of life we are misled, misled in this way, that we have got this human form of body, very nice body, and if we are misled, instead of giving service to the Lord, if we simply are engaged in the service of the senses, then we become subject to the karma or fruitive activities. That means we get different types of body.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we simply study that the Bhagavad-gītā begins with this education, that "You are not this body." Yes. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, dehi. It has nothing to do with this kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This is to be understood. The whole world requires to understand this verse; otherwise they remain go-khara.
Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. That has been explained from time immemorial, but the world does not understand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: Nobody would sincerely respect them. Only for some self-interest. But here, respect opportunity, it is out of love. That is not for any bargaining. So who can get this? So this is God's... So one has to see by the result. That is stated in the... I think we have described. The, what is called, container is understood by the quantity of contents. The container is understood by the quantity of the contents. The example is given of water-water, air, and bright. When there is good flame, then we can understand that the contents is very inflammable. Just like petrol. So that is in comparison like when there is big amount of, quantity of water; that means the container is big. Similarly, the big quantity of ether, then it is to be understood, quantity according to the content. So one has to understand, as Kṛṣṇa said, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo-'mśa...
Prabhupāda: This is quality. Just like we have got practical example. One man's beloved has died, and he is seeing the whole universe vacant. Is it vacant? So that is quality of love. So there is no formula of quality. It is to be understood by himself. Just like if after eating something you feel refreshed and get strength, that is quality. You haven't got to take certificate: "Will you give me a certificate that I have eaten?" You'll understand whether eaten or not. That is quality. When you will feel so much ecstasy in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that is quality. Not artificially—"Chant. Chant. Otherwise get out." This is not quality. This is in expectation that someday you may come to quality. That requires time.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He is, after all, a student here. That... This is Kṛṣṇa, that you go... Just like you are caused by your father. Your father is caused by your grandfather, his father, his father, his father, his father. In this way, if you go to Kṛṣṇa, then He has no father, and that is Kṛṣṇa. So long you will find another father, then he is not supreme. And when there is no more father, then He is supreme.
Dr. Patel: It is very difficult for us to understand the divya-bhāva of Kṛṣṇa. That is why people are asking these questions because divya-bhāva is very difficult to be understood.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Niskiñcananaṁ mahiyasam. It has to be understood from the same thing, tattva-darśinam. Otherwise it is not possible. You cannot speculate. If you say, as Gandhi said, "My Kṛṣṇa is of my imagination," that kind of knowledge has no value. What you are, your imagination? Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Parataḥ svato vā. Vidya-bhāgavatavadhiḥ. If one reads Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then he gets the ultimate knowledge of everything. That is the ultimate end, limit of knowledge.
Dr. Patel: Tasya karyaṁ na vidyate.
Dr. Patel: That... Obstinacy or no obstinacy, that is their way. That's all. Truth has to be understood.
Prabhupāda: You cannot understand God in your own way. That is not possible. Everyone is...
Dr. Patel: "Those also come to Me," avidhi-pūrvakam. Avidhi-pūrvakam.
Prabhupāda: Avidhi means rascaldom.
Dr. Patel: You may call them rascal or rogue or...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Avidhi, avidhi...
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, it will not continue. A few hours in a day, stop. Yadi varṣe māghera śeṣa, daṇḍa-rājā puṇya-deśa. This is the month of Māgha. So at the end of Māgha, if there is little rain, then it is to be understood that the king of that country is very pious and blessed. This time a little rain is required. Yadi varṣe māghera śeṣa, daṇḍa-rājā puṇya-deśa. There is a book, Khanāra Vacana, astronomical prediction in this small verses.
Jayapatākā: Pradyumna Prabhu had a copy of that book.
Prabhupāda: Khanāra Vacana?
Prabhupāda: Then you entered a matter, material body created by your father and mother. Then you grew. Then, when you were sufficiently grown, then you have come out. Then again grew, again grow, again grow. Again it becomes old. You give up this body, in the same way again enter another mother's body, again develop another body. This science has to be understood, how it is going on. And that is Bhagavad-gītā.
Brian Singer: And in the beginning of time of the soul?
Prabhupāda: Why...? There is no beginning. Beginning of the body.
Brian Singer: No, I don't want to know about the beginning of the body. I can understand. I want to know about the beginning of the soul.
Prabhupāda: All right, that is also kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Prasādam means we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa; then it is prasādam. So you have not come, but you have to come to take prasādam. This, it has got connection with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore we welcome you that at least for eating, you are coming to Kṛṣṇa. Gradually, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, by eating only. Kṛṣṇa is not so easy to be understood, but we are giving you facility to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam so that one day you can understand this movement. This is the policy. Actually, that is the policy. We are not poor-feeding. That is not our philosophy. Like Vivekananda. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. No, we are not after that. We are giving you prasādam. And that is fact, that by eating, eating, eating, eating, you one day will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by eating. Because you are so dull, you cannot understand the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many verses. Another verse is mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). "The prakṛti is not important. Material energy is not important. My supervision is important." Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. The sun is rising and setting by whose order? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham... This is to be understood. And if one understands that because the soul is there within the body, therefore the body is working so wonderfully, then he can very easily understand there must be a soul of this universe. How he can deny it? How he can say that it is working automatically? There is no such experience, working automatically. I have given several times the example: the 747, wonderful aeroplane machine, but that is not important. The important is the pilot who is pushing the button and it is, in such big sky, it will stay balanced; in balance it is flying in six hundred miles speed, onh-onh-onh-onhh. (imitates sound of plane flying). And as soon a little....
Prabhupāda: "If by understanding all other ways, if he has come to know what is the actual knowledge..." That is the most confidential knowledge. That is not for everyone. How one can give up karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga? They cannot. But Kṛṣṇa says, "This is the most confidential. If you accept this, then it is to be understood you have knowledge." It is not for everyone. Find out this verse. Sixty-three, Eighteenth Chapter, I think. So take these notes, take these books and preach. You have taken all, sannyāsa. You preach.
Prabhupāda: Nature.... But we also say, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). So it is to be understood that it is being done under superior control. If nature is doing, so nature is superior control. He cannot explain. So if he does not know how nature is working, then what is the value of his theory? If he says that he cannot explain how nature is doing, that means he is not expert. He may be mistaken. So why his opinion or decision should be taken final? He does not know how nature is working. That is not perfect knowledge. Does he say like that, "Nature is working"?
Guru-kṛpā: Nature.
Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.
Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...
Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.
Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.
Prabhupāda: Generally, everyone is born fourth class. Is to be understood. But by training such people you can make them division, first class, second class, third class.
Scheverman: I think we certainly would have no quarrel with that. I think Father's concern is what is your message for, what is your attitude toward those who are handicapped in our society? How do you respond, how do you treat those?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So is it to be understood that a very simple person who has all kinds of material desires, if he approaches God...?
Prabhupāda: Because he has approached God, therefore he's pious. Even though he has got material desires. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā mokṣa-kāma (SB 2.3.10). One day, he'll become devotee. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He went to search God for some material benefit, but when he became perfect, he became pure devotee. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...are better off than the godless philosophers and jñānīs? These people are better off than the mental speculator jñānīs?
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda? (indistinct) What about the verse in the Bhāgavatam that says if a devotee falls down that he's not to be considered as the fruitive workers or the karmīs, etcetera.
Prabhupāda: Falls down means again when he revives, he'll begin from that point, where he fell down. (break) ...it is to be understood that polluted.
Satsvarūpa: That's also sinful reaction.
Prabhupāda: Polluted means sinful.
Prabhupāda: "The Supreme Lord is unlimited. Only a very expert personality retired from the activities of material happiness deserves to understand this knowledge of spiritual values. Therefore those who spurare not so well situated due to material attachment should be shown the ways of transcendental realization by Your Goodness through descriptions of the transcendental activities of the Supreme Lord." Purport. "Theological science is a difficult subject, especially when it deals with the transcendental nature of God. It is not a subject matter to be understood by persons who are too much attached to material activities. Only the very expert, who have almost retired from materialistic activities, by culture of spiritual knowledge can be admitted to the study of this great science.
Prabhupāda: It does not mean that one who is not postgraduate, he cannot read other books. Spiritual life is not a stereotype like that. But one who is not postgraduate, it is little difficult for him to understand the statement of... Just like in the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, na caitanyāt kṛṣṇāj jagati para-tattvaṁ param iha, that there is no superior truth than Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if you have not studied Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll not understand this statement. If you understand, "Yes, Caitanya is the supreme truth," then it is to be understood that you have graduated. And if you are not, then it will be difficult for you to understand.
Kulaśekhara: Then the more we understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the more we'll understand the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, then even Brahman has to be understood in relationship to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee (1): Even Brahman has to be understood...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real understanding.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Now wherefrom this fragrance have come?
Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone.
So these are higher standard of understanding. Unless one is devotee, purified, he cannot understand that to become one with God is not the sublime idea. In Vṛndāvana one who wants to become the father or mother of God, to control God, that these Māyāvādīs cannot understand, Advaitavādīs. This is to be understood by the pure devotion, devotees. What is the benefit to become equal with God? Just become.... equal.... Other Vaiṣṇava philosophies they could not explain our relationship with God. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained the higher relationship with God. That is called vatsalya-rasa and madhurya-rasa. Especially madhurya-rasa. Anarpita carīṁ cirāt karuṇayāvatirṇaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojvala-rasāṁ sva bhakti śriyam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave information of the madhurya-rasa, that our relationship can be with Kṛṣṇa in conjugal love. So unless one comes to the platform of devotional service, one cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is dharmasya glānir. That those who are not bhaktas, speculators, they are talking of God. This is dharmasya glānir. How they can talk of God? They cannot talk. Even they are talking, that is misleading, because nobody can talk of God unless you are devotee of God. You see? Bhakto 'si. Fourth Chapter. The subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā is to be understood by a bhakta, not by a speculator. Read it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ (BG 4.3).
Prabhupāda: Ah, "I am just talking to you that purātanaḥ, old yoga system, which I spoke to the sun-god." "Why you are talking to me?" Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhakto 'si me...
Prabhupāda: He's already perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). The one who's trying for others' salvation... That is a devotee's business. Ordinary man cannot do it. Because he's doing that, it is to be understood that he's already on the platform of... Because salvation means to remain his own position. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Svarūpa is to serve God. So if one is serving on behalf of God, then he's in svarūpa, mukti. Others are acting for his own benefit, but a devotee is acting for others' benefit. Therefore he's already on the platform of liberation.
Prabhupāda: And the view of the river is very healthy. If you can see the river from your house, it is to be understood that quarter is very nice. If you can see sky from your room, then it is understood the room is very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, all these things are here.
Prabhupāda: We can see from the room the river.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise from the roof. So it is very nice.
Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of education, that you are a spirit soul. Because you are spirit soul you are changing bodies. This is the understanding, beginning A-B-C-D. So when the body is finished, annihilated, you are not finished—you get another body. Just like you have got this coat and shirt. If you change tomorrow, you come to me in another shirt or another coat, that means you are not finished. This science has to be understood. Then one can make progress about the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Mike Robinson: I'm beginning to understand. What I'm finding difficult is, for instance, we see on Oxford Street a lot of people who are handing out Hare Kṛṣṇa literature. Now...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the so-called death is also a change of body. This has to be understood first.
Mike Robinson: Yes, I think I've got that far. Now if we could go on from there. And then we said, you said that it therefore made a difference in the life after death, how you lived, that there were natural laws that determined that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The process is that the spirit soul is invisible in our material eyes, very small. So after the destruction of this gross body, there is another body, subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. So at the time of death, when finishing this body, mind works. So, according to that process, the mind carries the small spirit soul to another body. Just like the air carries the flavor.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa book is not difficult to be understood by...
Jyotirmāyī: I was thinking if we make into poem and put music and they sing it, then they can remember...
Prabhupāda: That you can do, to make it understandable easily. It is already easy. If you want to make more easy, then do that.
Jyotirmāyī: Okay. You also allowed... You said that some parents can keep their children with them and teach themselves.
Prabhupāda: The first thing is that what do you mean by Kṛṣṇa. That is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa means God. So if you have no objection to chant the name of God, then there is no difference of opinions. Now first of all, I may ask you, "What do you mean by God?" You are chanting the holy name of God, and people may ask you, "What do you mean by God?" Because especially nowadays... (aside) No, there is matches? That's all. Come near. So first question will be, "What do you mean by God?" If I, or anybody, asks you, "What do you mean by God?"
Moustafa: I cannot explain, because now...
Prabhupāda: Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating? Then the body must be given some rest, sleeping, for which we require some apartment, some place.
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, belief changes. Belief changes with the change of the body. Just like a man is thinking that "I am Iranian," "I am Indian," so long this body is Iranian or Indian or American. But the body will change. Then he'll think otherwise. So this belief is also temporary. It will be finished with the body. The body is temporary, and the belief, along with the body, that is also temporary. But I am eternal. That is to be understood. That is spiritual knowledge.
Ali: Sure, that is what I am practicing right now.
Prabhupāda: No, we do not say about religion. We are talking of science. It will take three millions of years to understand religion for these rascals. They are now animals. Religion is not so easy thing to be understood by the cats and dogs. Religion is meant for the human being. In the human society there is religion, not in the dog society or the cats and dogs. They do not understand religion means they are cats and dogs, they are not human beings. Human being is that: athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the nature of God. That is human being. Otherwise cats and dogs.
Shahrezad: So why we are so involved in the material world that most of the human being don't have...
Prabhupāda: In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let me finish, that... We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being accepted all over the world. People are very much, those who are scholars, they say that even Rādhākrishnan and Aurobindo, they presented Bhagavad-gītā making some compromise with Western ideas. But here is presentation of Bhagavad-gītā in India's original traditional way. So they welcome it. And this is our, I mean to say, object also, that we cannot allow Bhagavad-gītā to be understood by anyone's imagination. No. That is not possible. And that is not allowed in the Bhagavad-gītā by the author. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter that as soon as the paramparā system of understanding is lost, then the whole thing is lost. In the Fourth Chapter it is said. Find out Fourth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Body is changing. This is to be understood.
Indian man: Then who am I? Question is still hanging.
Prabhupāda: That will come next. The first question is this.
Indian man: I am not body.
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is sufficient.
Indian man: Quite satisfying, I am not body.
Prabhupāda: That is self-realization.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So, our point is that if he was not on the platform of mokṣa, liberation, why did he waste his time by spoiling himself and for spoiling others? Now he has come to his senses, it is good, but it is to be understood that he simply spoiled his time and spoiled others' career by misleading them. Thus, without being liberated, nobody can guide anyone. That is useless. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you have no eyes, then how can you lead others? If you are blind and they are blind, then what is the use of becoming their leaders? Actually all the so-called leaders and scholars, they are blind themselves and they have become big, big leader. That is the misfortune of the present life. And, therefore, our proposition is you take direction from Kṛṣṇa and His representative. That's all.
Girirāja: That means he's failed as a guru. He hasn't...
Prabhupāda: He could not give them right knowledge. Phalena paricīyate. The paricīya is to be understood by the result. The disciple is the result. If they are so fool, then what is the guru?
Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇava-paramparā, Vallabhācārya, the whole lot is now. I have seen it.
Prabhupāda: They are criticizing us.
Dr. Patel: This thing is the God has to reincarnate Himself again to reestablish bhāgavata-dharma.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. If you don't mind, your Swami Nārāyaṇa is also like that.
Prabhupāda: First of all we must understand what do you mean by religion. First of all let me know. What do you mean by religion? Hm? Religion means, according to Vedic śāstra, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). "Religion means the law given by God." It is very simple. But is you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law He has given, then where is religion? This is cheating. Just like law means the principle or the regulation given by the state, by the government. That is law, not that you manufacture some law at your home, as it is going on—yato mata tato patha. You manufacture something, rascal law, and that becomes a religion. That is not religion. Religion means the law given by God, simple law. So if you do not know what is God and if you do not know what law he has given, then where is your religion? There is no religion. Without understanding of God and without understanding of the law as given by God, then there is no religion. That is cheating in the name of religion. Therefore in the Bhāgavata, from the very beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vedyaṁ vāstavam atra: (SB 1.1.2) "Real religion is to be understood here."
When one is situated as a devotee, then this base quality, rajas-tamaḥ, ignorance and passion, the symptoms: kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. Kāma, lusty desires, and greediness. Sex desire, strong sex desire or satisfy the senses, eating too much, lobha, greediness—these things go. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā bhagavaty uttama... When one is situated in devotional service, tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. These are rajas-tamo... These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham (SB 1.2.19). The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he is to be understood... He's in the sattva-guṇa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he'll be pleased. Prasīdati. In this way, gradual step... So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varṇāśrama, but at least there must be some idea.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any devotee in literary career, he is to be understood... Just like our Vṛndāvana dāsa Ṭhākura. He is described as incarnation of Vyāsadeva because Vyāsadeva wrote Bhāgavatam and he wrote Caitanya-bhāgavata.
Pradyumna: Vyāsa-pūjā.
Prabhupāda: Vyāsa-pūjā. Vyāsa-prasādam. Unless one is blessed by Vyāsadeva, he cannot write transcendental literature. So now you have very good cook. Kīrtana is going on. It is Vaikuṇṭha. Maintain this status very nicely. You can. You are... From the very beginning you are... Do it very nicely. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. If devotees chant always, that is Kṛṣṇa or Vaikuṇṭha. Tatra tiṣṭhā... Tatra tiṣṭhāmi. Yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. They must be pure devotee and always talk about Kṛṣṇa, chant about Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That has to be understood, and therefore He's explaining in so many ways. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This one word, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. He cannot understand it. "The body's finished, everything's finished." These rascal professors. And Kṛṣṇa says, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20), "Don't think it is finished. It is there." Who will understand it? It requires a special brain. These rascals say, "Now everything's finished. The body's finished." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no, no. Not finished." Who will understand this, unless he has got a very good brain? And our education begins from that point.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "Like any other revealed scripture, the Bible's teachings are absolute, but are they to be understood literally or symbolically, and are they applicable for all men?"
Prabhupāda: Literally, not symbolically.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "What is the actual meaning of the sacrifice of the cross, Jesus dying on the cross?"
Prabhupāda: It has no meaning. The people were so rascal that they attempted to kill him. Because he was speaking of God. So we can understand the pollution of the then society, how intelligent they were. He had to deal with such rascals that he was speaking about God and the result is that they wanted to kill him first. He preached, "Thou shalt not kill," and they killed him first. This is their intelligence. Now people are advanced. Those doctrines, they are not (indistinct). That's all. The answer.
Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and... So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that "God has no leg, no hand," that... In the Upaniṣad it said that "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha-mūḍha means rascal-rascal thinks that "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood.
Prabhupāda: So that is beneficial, not that simple milk is beneficial. Even the stool is beneficial. Therefore I am asking so much here and..., "Farm, farm, farm, farm..." That is not my program-Kṛṣṇa's program. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce greenness everywhere, everywhere. Vṛndāvana. It is not this motorcar civilization. If it has taken in his brain, then it is to be understood that he can do this plan. He'll be able. Somebody said that he is eager to see me. Hm?
Mahāṁśa: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Mahāṁśa: Caitya-guru was saying.
Prabhupāda: Caitya-guru?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When this philosophy is reversed, then life becomes full of meaning and full of purpose. Actually that is a fact. We give value to life. That's why we go to the... We send our children for higher studies and we develop so many political and social and ethical and moral problems. That means there is purpose in life. So life is not void. But somehow, when one misses that point, he just comes to that point. But that's not a fact. So it has to be understood that there is... Life is full of meaning and full of purpose, and there is a goal behind it. That purpose is to develop spiritual consciousness, to develop the science of ātmā called ātma-jñāna, the science of the self, and becomes... Life becomes meaningful.
Prabhupāda: That is the statement in Bhāgavata, apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām, they dismiss the case because apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Just like thieves: "Eh! What is government? What is government? Let us enjoy." That's not the fact. So we have to put all these questions before learned scholars and ask them to make a solution. (Bengali) Why zero?
| Page Title: | To be understood (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 29 of Nov, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=90, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 90 |