This is the process (Conversations 1975 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"that is the process" |"this is the process"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Old people should be instructed to forget what they have learned. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. This is the formula of preaching. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, he is begging to the people, dānte nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāham bravīmi: "Taking a straw in my mouth, with folded hands and flattering you hundred times, I am submitting one request." "What is that?" This is the process of approaching these rascals, old fools who have learned something and does not like to forget. So he says, he sādhavaḥ: "Oh, you are such a nice learned scholar-devotee, so my request is that whatever you have learned, please forget." Sakalam eva vihāya dūrāt: "Kick them out." "Then? What shall I do?" Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Please turn your attention to the teachings of Lord Caitanya." He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya: "You are very great personality. So my request to you: you forget or kick out whatever you have learned." That is the first business.

Guru-kṛpa: It is a very humble approach.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Humble approach for giving a slap, (chuckles) that "You forget everything, what you have learned." First of all, this is the first condition. He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya dūrād caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam. We can go this way. This is our business. We know they are all rascals, but they are thinking that "We know so many things. We are learned scholars." So humbly approach them and flatter him that "You are so nice man, such a learned scholar." Just like a child is flattered, "My dear boy, you are such a nice boy. You take these lozenges and return me the hundred dollar note. Don't spoil it. You are such a good boy, yes." This is our... Therefore to approach these rascals we have to learn tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. That is the preaching method. Everyone is puffed up. Even most insignificant man, he is also puffed up: "Oh, I am so rich man, I know everything. I have got so much bank balance. These poor fellows, they cannot earn livelihood; therefore they have become Vaiṣṇavas." This is their policy. (break) You immediately print 100,000, that "Scientific Basis."

Rāmeśvara: Immediately reprint.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: No, not useless. But just like if you kindle fire and at the same time pour water, it will take long time. To kindle fire, make it dry, keep it dry. Then it will be very quickly successful. So you are committing offenses, at the same time chanting, so by chanting effect, you will come to that stage, but it will take time. If you want to be transferred to the spiritual world quickly, just like if you want to ignite the fire very quickly, you must keep it dry. If you simply put on the wet wood, then the fire will not be very powerful. It will be... It will take time. The fire will be blazing fire. Then it will dry. It will take... Better put dry wood to make it successful. This is the process. The effect of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will not go in vain, but it will take time. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Because he is thinking "By the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, I can do anything, all sinful activities, and it will be adjusted," that is the greatest offense, not only offense, the greatest offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.

Siddha-svarūpa: It is very difficult to put everyone who is living outside of the temple in one category. Some people, they are, many people that I know living outside are following strictly the regulative principles, and they are...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Siddha-svarūpa: They are strictly following regulative principles and chanting their rounds and having morning āratik in their homes. And evening also, they are chanting. So instead of fighting, I think we should only try to encourage everybody to chant and follow the regulative principles.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-śāstre kaya, lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya (CC Madhya 22.54). For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more. It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that's all, although I was a gṛhastha.

Bali Mardana: You are a much better student than us.

Prabhupāda: So this is the process. That is the... You sing every day. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **. That is the process. Wherever you live, if you follow strictly the instruction of guru, then you remain perfect. But if we create, concoct ideas against the instruction of guru, then we are doomed, hell. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. There is no more shelter, finished. Yasya prasādāt. If guru thinks that "This person, I wanted to take him back to home, back to Godhead. Now he is going against me. He is not following," aprasādāt, he is displeased, then everything is finished.

Bali Mardana: Vaiṣṇavāparādha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, where does someone derive his authority...

Prabhupāda: The guru is authority.

Devotee (1): No, I know, but for his actions other than just following the four regulative principles and chanting sixteen rounds. He does so many other things during the day. Where does he derive his authority if he's not, let's say, living in the temple?

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Individual, we are part and parcel. The same thing: the supreme eternal, and we, means subordinate eternal. We are of the same quality. Quality is the same but quantity different. Therefore our knowledge quantity and his knowledge quantity different. Therefore we should take knowledge from Him, who has large quantity of knowledge. We have got tiny quantity of... This is the difference. He is also cognizant, I am also cognizant, but his knowledge is vast, unlimited; my knowledge is tiny. Therefore, if I want to know more, we should know from Him. That is perfect knowledge. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the process.

Professor: May I ask a personal question?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Professor: I heard that you were a chemist before.

Prabhupāda: I was not chemist, but I was manager in a big chemical factory. Therefore, automatically, I learned something of chemist. And later on I started my own chemical factory.

Professor: You were belonging to Bengal?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: And you were having also a guru there?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. Without guru how can you...

Professor: Yes, naturally.

Prabhupāda: He is my guru. Show the photo.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: If you have studied about the subtle body of living entity?

Psychologist: No.

Prabhupāda: First of all, this, this gross body made of five material elements—earth, water, air, fire, like that. This we can see with our eyes, but we cannot see the mind, intelligence and ego. Although everyone knows there is mind, there is intelligence. So when this body is annihilated, the subtle body—mind, intelligence, ego-carries the soul to another gross body. This is the process of transmigration of the soul. Now, what do you think of this process?

Psychologist: (Spanish)

Hṛdayānanda: She says in her... In the field of psychology also they admit also, they admit the existence of forces beyond the gross elements, and although ordinarily they do not deal with that, she is very interested to know about it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the law. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "The soul is not annihilated after the destruction of the body." You find out that verse, na jāyate na mriyate va kadacit. Read it.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Actually that is the position, therefore our business is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa demands that, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how to become perfect.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ

bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam

dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam...

(BG 10.10)

This is the process. You take instruction from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Don't be proud of your paltry knowledge. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement that Kṛṣṇa is perfect and take knowledge from Him—you'll be perfect. That is our proposal.

Guest (1): That we believe in.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.

Guest (1): But to bring some message of truth to the people all over the world which are...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the message is there, Kṛṣṇa's message.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna. Then you will understand. Upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ jñāninaḥ tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva-darśi, one who has seen the truth, he can enlighten you. This is the process.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is ācārya. So ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Without following the ācārya, if we simply theorize, that is not good. Just like the same example: if you want to put some thesis, the university regulation is that he must be guided by three experienced professor. You cannot simply put forward your thesis without being guided by the experienced professors. That thesis will not be accepted. Similarly, here Arjuna directly hears from Kṛṣṇa. So he says that "You are Parabrahma. Now I understand." Now people may say that "You are accepting Him Parabrahma. Where is your authority? You are friend. You can say Parabrahma or anything—out of love. That is not final." Therefore he quotes that... What is that? Āhus tvāṁ ṛṣayaḥ sarve: "All the big, big ṛṣis, they have accepted You." Svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me: "And You, the Supreme Person, You are also speaking to me. And so far I am concerned, I have realized now that You are the Supreme Lord, Parabrahma." So if we follow Arjuna, then there is no difficulty. Accept Kṛṣṇa as Parabrahma. So Arjuna has heard it from Kṛṣṇa directly. This is the process. Now Kṛṣṇa says that "I accept your statement in toto." What is that language?

Nitāi: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14).

Prabhupāda: Sarvam etaṁ ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: "My dear Keśava..." Keśava, the another name of Kṛṣṇa... "Whatever You have said I accept them cent percent." Sarvam etaṁ ṛtam. Ṛtam means fact, truth. This is understanding. So if we accept in that way, then our knowledge is perfect. And if we accept in a different way... Just like Gandhi says that "I do not believe that Kṛṣṇa ever lived." Just see. He does not believe in the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they have written big, big comment on Bhagavad-gītā, even Śaṅkarācārya. He does not believe anyone. He believes himself. And that kind of belief is not help. And our process is: because Kṛṣṇa has been accepted by all the ācāryas, all the great sages, Arjuna has accepted—we accept, that's all.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Sarvam etaṁ ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: "My dear Keśava..." Keśava, the another name of Kṛṣṇa... "Whatever You have said I accept them cent percent." Sarvam etaṁ ṛtam. Ṛtam means fact, truth. This is understanding. So if we accept in that way, then our knowledge is perfect. And if we accept in a different way... Just like Gandhi says that "I do not believe that Kṛṣṇa ever lived." Just see. He does not believe in the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they have written big, big comment on Bhagavad-gītā, even Śaṅkarācārya. He does not believe anyone. He believes himself. And that kind of belief is not help. And our process is: because Kṛṣṇa has been accepted by all the ācāryas, all the great sages, Arjuna has accepted—we accept, that's all. We have no difficulty. If I am child, I ask my father, "What is this, my father?" The father says, "My dear child, it is called coconut." Then, if I distribute this knowledge, "This is coconut," then my knowledge is perfect. I may not be perfect, but because I have heard it from my father, who is perfect about the knowledge of this fruit, so I have taken that word from my father, and I am preaching, "This is coconut," and this is perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We are simply repeating the perfect statement of our predecessor. That's all. So there is no difficulty. We haven't got to write thesis on Kṛṣṇa. The perfect knowledge is already there. And supported by the ācāryas. And we are simply submitting that "This is Kṛṣṇa. This is God." That's all. All over the world we are placing this statement that "Here is Bhagavad-gītā, and Kṛṣṇa spoke. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is like this. He is the original source of everything." Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of everything." And Kṛṣṇa also says, "After many, many births one come to this understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) 'Vasudeva is everything.' " Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everything." And when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that mahātmā is very rare. So my point is that simply replacing... not replacing, submitting the same statement as the great saintly person, ācāryas have accepted, we are getting the result very nice, instead of theorizing in my own way, although it is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So we are teaching people the same way, that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So that is being effective. We are getting good result all over the world. Anyone who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, he is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully convinced, dedicating his life for Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can change him. Now any of my students, you ask them to change his position from Kṛṣṇa consciousness to something else. I don't think they will agree. They are not fools; they are all qualified, educated. They are firmly convinced about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all of them will explain how they are convinced. If you ask them, any one of them will explain. They have not blindly accepted. So this is the process, that if you accept the pure path as accepted by the authorities, then it will be effective. Svayam eva...

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That means you haven't got the attachment. Your procedure has been failure.

Indian man: Ah, but sir, what is lacking?

Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it." If one is serious, then... That is recommended,

utsāhāt dhairyāt niścayāt

tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt

sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge

sadbhiḥ bhaktiḥ prasidhyati

These are the process. First of all the first process is utsāhaḥ, enthusiasm: "I must advance in spiritual life." That is required. And if you are failing enthusiasm, then in the beginning it is failure.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, there no attention. You have failed. That is the proof that you had no attention.

Indian man: Yes, but then God should help us to keep us...

Prabhupāda: God is always helping, but if you do not accept it... God says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all other engagement and take My shelter," but you are not doing that. That is your fault. So it cannot be failure unless you are negligent. You have no utsāhaḥ. This is the process. Utsāhaḥ dhairyaḥ niścayaḥ tat-tat-karma-pravartanaḥ, sato vṛtteḥ. How these boys are advancing? They have got enthusiasm: "Yes, we must make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." They have given up everything. They are young men. They have got... Every young man has to satisfy senses in so many ways. But no. They are so enthusiastic, but... For understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness they have given up everything. They are Europeans, Americans. They have got so many allurement. But I have told them that "You must give up illicit sex," they have given up; "You must give up meat-eating," they have given up; "You must give up intoxication up to drinking tea and cigarette," and they have given up, these young men. So they are utsāhaḥ. There is enthusiasm: "Yes, we must do it." That is wanted, not theoretically on the armchair of devotional service. That will not be successful. Armchair theory will not help you. You must be practical and there must be enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. You are sitting in the same position and you are thinking that you are making progress. That will fail. You have to come out with enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. That is required. Ciraṁ vicinvan.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: If you simply speculate, it will never help you. You have to receive the favor of the Supreme Lord by your enthusiasm. Then it will be successful. Simply theorizing, speculation will not... Therefore it is said ciraṁ vicinvan. You can go on speculating for millions and millions of years. It will never be successful. Ciram. Ciram means perpetual. That will not help. This is the process, ādau śraddhā. By śraddhā, "Oh, here is God consciousness, very nice. Let us come and see what they are doing." This is called śraddhā, faith, little faith. Then in order to increase that faith you have to associate with the persons who are executing devotional service. That is called sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). The devotees are called sādhu. Therefore we are opening centers, why? To give chance people to make association with the devotees. Sādhu-saṅga. And then sādhu-saṅga, after sādhu-saṅga one who has properly made sādhu-saṅga, the next stage is bhajana-kriyā: how they are executing devotional service. Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then this anartha. Anartha means unwanted things. Just like illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, these are unwanted things. It is not necessary. People have learned them by bad association. When one has got his wife, why he should indulge in illicit sex? This is sinful. When we have got so many things to eat, why shall I go to kill an animal, eat it? So these are anartha. Anartha means "without any meaning." So these things become vanquished. If one is actually engaged in devotional service, the first symptom will be that he is not interested in things which are unwanted, artificial. These are the stages. Then niṣṭhā. Niṣṭhā means firm conviction. Then ruciḥ, taste. Then āsaktiḥ, attachment. Then bhāva, and then prema. So as a student is serious, he gets promotion to next higher class, higher class, higher class, higher class, gradually to the M.A. class. That is natural. But if in the beginning he is not serious, no enthusiasm, then what is the reason that he will be promoted to the higher section? That is not possible.

Indian man: No, enthusiasm is there, but there are breaks.

Prabhupāda: Breaks means he is not serious.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: It is explained there. He does not reveal Himself. Why He shall reveal Himself to an unqualified person? That is Kṛṣṇa's prerogative. If He likes He will reveal. If He does not like He will not reveal. You cannot by force see Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, first of all be qualified, then try to see Kṛṣṇa. He is not exposed. Even a big man, if you want to see him, he may refuse: "No, I will not see." What can you do? If you think that "This man is third-class man, why shall I see him?" Even in ordinary human society that is going on. So why people are eager to see Kṛṣṇa without being qualified? Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" First of all you become fit to see God. They'll not become fit. They'll do all nonsense, and want to see God. Kṛṣṇa is addressed, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He is the supreme pure, and we are impure, and you want to see the supreme pure. You see? What audacity! I am not fire. I want to enter into the fire. You see? What will be the result? You'll be burned into ashes. First of all be fire. Increase your temperature to the same temperature, then it will automatically. He is paraṁ brahma, so you realize yourself as brahma. You are realizing yourself as American, Indian, this, that, and you want to see paraṁ brahma? The foolish people will do. And one has to become purified, sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to be free from all designations. Everyone, we give more prominence to the designations: "I am this, I am this." So how can you see God like that? First of all you become designationless. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "I am not a brāhmaṇa, I am not a kṣatriya, I am not a vaiśya"—everything He denied. So purify yourself and you'll see God. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to become purified. That makes you all right. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Sadaiva means always. This is the process. Why these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" What qualification have you got? He doesn't think like that, that "I have no qualification." He thinks that "I am very advanced." That is foolish. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ. Similarly a third-class man goes to a high-court judge. Foolish rascals has come. "Who is that?" "I don't know."

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good, just like we also use motorcar, but not for fashion. Suppose if we go for preaching. If we can go by car quickly, we take advantage of the car. We have got many cars for preaching work. So everything is good, provided it is used for progressive goodness. (coughs) That our mistake is that when... Now listen, there is the mistake in Darwin's theory also. He has no information that the evolution is taking place, of the body, by the desire of the soul. That he does not know. Just like sometimes people were happy and living in a small cottage. Now they are making big, big skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The cottage and this... The cottage is not becoming the skyscraper building but the man who was living in the cottage, by his desire the skyscraper building is coming. Similarly the evolution means the soul within the body desires a certain type of body and he gets it. Not that the monkey body has developed into human body.

But the soul within the monkey's body desired a human body, and he has got it. This is the process of evolution. The Darwin's theory, this knowledge is lacking. If he is thinking that the cottage has become big skyscraper building, that is not the fact. The owner of the cottage desired to have a skyscraper building, therefore he, from the cottage he transferred to the skyscraper building. It is due to the owners.

Journalist: In that case, if we go on developing, we stay in the skyscraper, or the skyscraper gets bigger.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The skyscraper is not impediment, it is not impediment. If you remain in the skyscraper and develop your spiritual consciousness, you can do that. But the unfortunate thing is that we are too much absorbed in constructing the skyscraper building, forgetting our real business. That is the defect.

Journalist: What about sex and drugs, sex and alcohol.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, dried up, but they must agree to follow. Otherwise, it is dead. (break) ...kārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformation, that makes a twice-born. (break) ...na jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, vedo-pathad bhaved vipro brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. Everyone is born śūdra, and by undergoing the reformation process, he becomes twice-born. The father is the spiritual master, and the mother is Vedic knowledge. First birth is ordinary father and mother. That even cats and dogs gets. Everyone gets father and mother. Without father and mother, there is no question of birth. That janma is śūdra janma. Then, when he gets second birth by the spiritual father, then he becomes a dvija, twice-born. Again birth. Then he is allowed to study the Vedic literatures. Vedo-pathad bhaved vipraḥ. And when, by studying, he understand the Brahman, then he becomes brāhmaṇa. This is the process. Brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. And then, after becoming a brāhmaṇa, when he understands Kṛṣṇa, then he becomes Vaiṣṇava. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Siddha means to understand Brahman, and yatatām api siddhānām, and after becoming siddha, one who drives further ahead, out of many of them, one can understand Kṛṣṇa. So we are aiming to that destination, to understand Kṛṣṇa. And then it will be perfect. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). (break) ...headquarter (Hindi)?

Indian guest: San Jose, San Francisco (Hindi), southern peninsula. (Hindi)

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to everyone, devotee Bhāgavata and grantha-Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life. Kāma-lobha, lusty desires or greediness. This is the process. And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are also young men. They never ask permission from me any time, "Now, today, I want to go to the cinema." They have got all the monies in their hand. They never misspend without my permission. They are also young men, born in the western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given up. This is practical. Professor Judah has written me letter. You know him?

Dr. John Mize: No, I do not.

Prabhupāda: That "I am simply amazed how you have converted drug-addicted hippies to become servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." That is his puzzling. But the method is so nice that it automatically becomes. Therefore we are stressing on the method.

Dharmādhyakṣa: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, without practice of the method, it's very difficult to understand the philosophical concepts.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Therefore it is said that without becoming a brāhmaṇa, nobody should touch Vedas. That is a... Without becoming brāhmaṇa...

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These materialistic persons, they do not know what is Viṣṇu or they do not know that his ultimate goal of life is to know Viṣṇu, or God. This is human life. But that is missing. They do not care to know that the ultimate, what is the ultimate goal of human life. This is the defect. Nobody cares to know, especially in this age. So that is the defeat of human civilization. They must know. This is the process, that... By evolution, they have come to nature's way, human form of life. Now they must know what is God. Otherwise it is defeat.

Dr. Judah: That's true.

Prabhupāda: The opportunity given by nature, good consciousness to know God, Viṣṇu. Now, practically, take anyone, especially in the western world. Nobody can say what is God. Is it not?

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dr. Judah: That is quite true.

Prabhupāda: So in that position, if we are offering, "Here is God," why do they not accept? What is the objection?

Dr. Judah: There isn't any objection. I think the great problem, of course, in the western world is that the western world has always been involved in materialism and...

Prabhupāda: The western world... That means they don't want to know God. So this is very horrible condition.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Ambarīṣa: So each second the body is a little different?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Each second the body is different. But what this rascal will do? How they will know? They have no brain. All dull-headed materialistic, mūḍha. They cannot understand this. But this is the process going on. I want, for certain thing, I want a different body. Immediately nature supplies.

Yadubara: Even within this body?

Prabhupāda: Why within? Another body you cannot see. Not within—without. Another body supplied.

Ambarīṣa: Sometimes when people are put into a dangerous situation, they acquire extraordinary strength, just like that, that they never had before. So it's like they...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You must expect according to your quality. Just like if Kṛṣṇa wants, He can make something else. But you are not independent. You are dependent on nature, and your position is very insignificant. But Kṛṣṇa can, as soon as He wishes—immediately done. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva. Just like in Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation.' There was creation immediately." But you cannot do that. But if you... Whatever you are desiring, nature is supplying you. Kṛṣṇa is also being supplied by nature, that is spiritual nature. And you are also being supplied by the material nature. So both nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra... (BG 3.27). Each stage is a different form. That is going on.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice. Your question was "How to find out president, good"? So this is the process. So there is no intelligent class of man. That is the difficulty. Who is trying to control his mind, control his senses? This is the first condition to become a first-class man. As soon as a man sees a beautiful woman, immediately his mind is agitated. Where is the control? And as soon as the mind is agitated, the senses are agitated. And this is the first condition of the first-class man, that he should not be agitated in his mind, and agitated by senses. This is the first condition.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (gatir anyathā)

(CC Adi 17.21)

In Kali-yuga it is very difficult to reform the whole human society to become perfect by this process, Vedic process. It is not possible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, that "You chant congregationally this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Never mind. Whatever impurities have entered, it will be all cleansed." That you have seen yesterday in the procession. So everyone was chanting in ecstasy Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have seen? Yes. So this is the process which we are trying to introduce, not anything, caste system or this system, no. Then everything will come automatically. Easiest process.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Chanting means the holy name of the Lord. The Lord is absolute. His name is not different from Him. So if you chant properly or improperly even, then immediately you be in touch with God. And as you become in touch with God, you become purified. So as you become purified, you know, actually you can see perfectly what is the aim of your life, how the human form of life should be utilized. These thing will be revealed. This is the process of chanting. Try to understand. Chanting the holy name of the Lord means the name of the Lord and the Lord, God, is not different. Just like the sun and the sunshine is not different. Wherever there is sun, or wherever... Sun may be 93,000,000 miles away from us, but by the sunshine we can appreciate sun. Similarly, God may be long, long away from us, but if we chant His holy name, immediately we become in contact with Him. This is the purpose of chanting the holy name of the Lord.

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one press man wanted to know what is this Rathayātrā festival? Why is it going on over here in the western world?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is the mistake. If God is the proprietor of everything, He is also proprietor of the western world. Is there any dispute? If we say, "God is the proprietor of the western world," what is the wrong there? Is there anything wrong? Who will answer this.

Jayatīrtha: Nothing wrong.

Prabhupāda: So if the western world has forgotten God and He comes to remind him, where is the wrong?

Reporter (3): Is that the significance, then, of the festival, to remind people of God?

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Kartikeya: Two people are going. We are continuing the program even at Rajana-samiti for three more days. At that time you can come in the afternoon.

Indian man (6): So they are staying for one month.

Kartikeya: Not one month, but I want to be at least one more week.

Girirāja: I think tomorrow would be the best day for a group of devotees to come.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amānin mānadena kīrtanīya sad hariḥ. This is the process to become very humble.

Indian man (5): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (Hindi)

tṛṇād api sunīcena

taror api sahiṣṇunā

amāninā mānadena

kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ

(CC Adi 17.31)

(Hindi) To become humble, this is a qualification. (Hindi) This humbleness is a good qualification. (Hindi conversation) Detroit, I saw that bridge. There is barrier?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: San Diego.

Brahmānanda: San Diego.

Prabhupāda: San Diego. (Hindi) Or I saw I the Berkeley also, that tower?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public—"Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing." Never argued, neither He discussed Bhāgavatam. For ordinary public-four hours' kīrtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasādam: "Take prasāda." This process... Because unless he has got little śraddhā, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)—only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult. But this process—chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, giving them chance to hear it and take prasādam—that will cure. And that is easily accepted by anyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Anyone will accept. To chant and dance and take prasādam—no one will disagree. So this is the process. When they come to the temple... Just like these boys. You are offering obeisances; they are also offering. But that will go to their credit, to become bhakta. This process should be adopted. Not in the beginning, but in the beginning give them prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And try to sell some book. You pay something. That means he is giving some service, the hard-earned money. That will also go to his credit. And then, when he'll concerned that "I have paid for it. Let me see what this nonsense has written. All right. Read." And that will also convince him. This is the way. He'll keep this body, book, and show some friend, so the infection will go on.

Cyavana: We can see in some of our boys in Kenya. Practically they have no education and very little intelligence, but still, they are doing everything. They're falling down. They are offering all the prayers. They are taking prasādam. They are chanting. They are doing everything, even they don't have the intelligence to understand why.

Prabhupāda: You said that no chemical is missing.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You cannot see because you are worthless. But those who are worthful, those who have attained liberation, they can see. Just like it is stated in the Bhāgavata, apasyat puruṣam purnam. Apasyat: "He saw, Vyāsadeva." Huh... Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite amale apasyat (SB 1.7.4). When your heart will be completely cleared of all this material conception, then you can see. So long you are materially contaminated, it is not possible. That's a fact. But bhakti-yogena samyak pranihite amale. When the heart is cleansed, that is the process. Therefore we are insisting that "Let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ceto-darpana-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The heart will be cleansed. Then they will understand. All of a sudden, if you speak all this philosophy "Kṛṣṇa said," they will accept that "Why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man. Why shall I..."

Brahmānanda: They will argue.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Because the heart is full of dirty things, so therefore ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, this is the process. First of all cleanse the heart. Just like slate. If it is unclean, or the mirror, if it is unclean, you cannot see. So you have to cleanse his heart. That we can do. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... And that is proof. Otherwise how could you come to this camp unless the heart is cleansed? That's a proof.

Brahmānanda: They came by the chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some fish? No.

Brahmānanda: In the Old Testament, God was speaking to Moses. So Moses wanted to see God. He was on a mountain. And he turned around, but then God became a burning bush.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: Because he was not qualified to see God.

Prabhupāda: Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa nāmādi na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By these material senses, you cannot understand God. Nāmādi. Even you cannot understand His holy name. Our understanding of God begins by chanting the holy name. So by chanting, chanting, because God is not different from the name, you associate with name..., er, with God, and then you become cleansed. This is the process. God is not different from His holy name. So you chant the holy name of God. That means you associate with God immediately. Just like you associate with the sun immediately, er, sunshine—you become warm—similarly, by associating with God, you become God conscious. This is our program. We are giving chance people to associate with God directly by chanting His holy name. God is omnipotent. His name is as omnipotent as He is. These fools, they do not know that.

Brahmānanda: They think it's some lesser, ordinary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you say, "Why, then, Kṛṣṇa? There are many names," so Caitanya: "Yes, any name of God, if it is God's name, it is as powerful." If it is God's name. "Any name" does not mean you manufacture some name. That is not. Any name by which one can understand this is God's name, that is there said. Nāmnam akari bahudha-nija sarva-śaktis tatrarpita niyamitaḥ smarane na kalaḥ. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa as a God's name, then if you have your own name of Kṛṣṇa, er, God, chant it.

Brahmānanda: But it must be standard.

Prabhupāda: Must be God's name.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Explain how to... Explain.

Brahmānanda: Of having a... Encouraging the people to..., first by having kīrtana and prasādam. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the process. Some how or other, they should join, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare..." Then everything... It is not very difficult. Simply induce them to chant. That will make everything success.

Jñāna: We have been spending some time in a small town.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. You induce people to chant. This is the sum and substance of devotee. It doesn't matter whether it is town, city, village. Wherever you go, you gather people and induce them by flattering them, by falling their, on their leg—some way or other, induce them. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya. This is the process shown by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, that "My dear sir, I have come to you with great humbleness, taking a straw in my mouth." Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya: "And falling down on your lotus feet." Kaku-satam kṛtva: "And I am trying to please you by so many flattering words." Kṛtva ahaṁ bravimi: "I have got some submission, if you'll kindly hear." So who is that man who will deny? If you fall down on his feet and take a straw and very humbly you pray, "Sir, I have got something to say if you kindly hear," who will deny? Who is that man? Even rogues, rascals, he'll also agree: "Yes, you can say what you want to do." This is the process. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-satam kṛtva ca ahaṁ bravimi. "I want to submit. Will you kindly hear?" So any rogue, rascal, gentleman, big, small, learned—everyone will agree. Is it not, if you submit like that, that with great humbleness and flattering him, "Falling down on your feet, I want to submit something"? Huh? What do you think?

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: This is the... This is the process. So this is the process. So now, when he will say, "All right, you can say what you want to say," then, he sādhava: "You are a great personality, nobleman." He may be a loafer class, (laughter) but give him all honor: "You are so great and so exalted," he sādhava, "and so honest." He sādhava. "My only submission is that whatever you have learned, you forget. Whatever nonsense you have learned..." Don't say "nonsense." (laughter) But we must know that he is a pakkā, rascal, nonsense. (laughs) So don't say directly, "nonsense." Say, "You are the great personality. So kindly, whatever you have learned, forget." "Then what shall I do?" He sādhavaḥ sakalam eva vihāya durāt: "Kick out whatever you nonsense learned." "Then what shall I do?" Now, caitanya-candra-caraṇe kurutānurāgam: "Kindly be submissive to Lord Caitanya, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is our program. No argument. Because he is a rascal, what is the use of arguing with him? He's a rascal number one. You know that. You cannot expect any good argument from the rascals and fools. Where is the logic? Their logic is to beat them with shoes. That is the only logic. But that, if you do that, then you'll not be able to preach. But otherwise that is the only logic, to beat them with shoes. Argumentum vaculum. You know this logic? In logic we have read. There is one logic, argumentum... You know this?

Cyavana: That is Latin.

Girl devotee (1): Yes. Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. This is the process. First of all flatter him. When he agrees, "Please tell me..."

Dr. Patel: How he became this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) Ask submissively, that "Forget all rascaldom, whatever you have learned, because you do not know what is knowledge. You have simply learned all rascaldom. So please forget it." This is our preaching.

Dr. Patel: Tell me that knowledge by which I know everything, according to that..., that boy? In Upaniṣad?

Prabhupāda: So that is, Kṛṣṇa is speaking. You know everything. By hearing Kṛṣṇa, you know everything. But we'll not do that. We shall stick to that rascaldom, what you have learned. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām... (BG 18.66). (Hindi) (break)

Dr. Patel: ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu was eulogized by Rūpa Gosvāmī, namo mahā-vadanyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. "You are, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, You are the most munificent because You are giving kṛṣṇa-prema, which is very, very difficult." (aside:) Jaya. (break) ...not because he... In the beginning I said they will not. (laughter) (Hindi) (break) ...rise early. (Hindi) (break)

Dr. Patel: You go to bed at two-thirty.

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, if he comes to Kṛṣṇa on any account he will become devotee.

Yaśomatī-nandana: Right. But he will come to Kṛṣṇa only if he comes in contact with His devotee.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yaśomatī-nandana: It appears that we came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness even though we were in a very low stage.

Prabhupāda: That is the process, but if somebody comes to Kṛṣṇa with some material motive, he also becomes... (break) ...civilization and other civilization.

Dr. Patel: Sir, let us first describe what is civilization.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: Let us, I mean, think about what is first civilization.

Prabhupāda: Civilization means advance from animal life.

Dr. Patel: That is the difference between other civilizations and Vedic civilization.

Prabhupāda: Huh? So what is that difference, that I am asking.

Dr. Patel: You are advanced from animal life to a higher life, spiritual life. That is Vedic civilization.

Prabhupāda: That is I am asking. Civilization means not animal. Man, human being, must not be animal. This is the basic principle of civilization.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as you go under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān paritiyaja mām ekam, then there is no jurisdiction of māyā. Just like as soon as the sun rises there is no more darkness, automatically. You do not require to dissipate the darkness. As soon as there is sun, everything is light. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya! Mam eva ye prapadyante māyām etā taranti te. This is the process. It is simple method. To become under the jurisdiction of māyā it requires great labor. But to become under the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa, it takes a minute. But these rascals will not do that. Kṛṣṇa...

Dr. Patel: Because Kṛṣṇa Himself has made your eyes, all these indriyas outgoing, so...

Prabhupāda: Indriya, He has made your eyes to see Kṛṣṇa, not a prostitute. That is your fault. Kṛṣṇa has given you eyes to see Him, but you are utilizing to see a prostitute. That is not Kṛṣṇa's fault; that is your fault. Eyes are not bad. Kṛṣṇa has given you eyes to see: Kṛṣṇa. But we are utilizing for other purpose. That is our fault. We are presenting this Kṛṣṇa's Deity in the temple, but who is coming to utilize his eyes? Nobody is coming. They will go to see cinema, beautiful actress; so they are ultilizing the eyes for this purpose.

Dr. Patel: I have seen the last cinema in '58. "Gone with the Wind."

Prabhupāda: Not your eyes...

Dr. Patel: It was "Gone with the Wind."

Morning Walk -- December 23, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is ninth chapter.

Indian man (3): Then I'll read it again and see if whether I can follow something. Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa clearly says, sa guṇān, sa guṇān samatītya, sama upena titya, perfectly transcending, this is the process.

Indian man (3): I see. We cannot do with the closed eyes.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man (3): With open eyes, why we cannot do the prayers and the bhakti-yoga? What is the...

Prabhupāda: For the disturbed mind. Those who are settled up, they can see always, open or closed. Premāñjanacchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu viloka. One who has attained that stage, love of God, he can see every, every moment. When you love somebody, a small child, don't you see always, huh? Don't you see? Huh? When you see the child's little sock, immediately you see the child. The shoes, immediately you see the child. Why? Because you are in love with the child. So that stage you have to come, in love with God, then you will see always, twenty-four hours, sadaiva. Sadaiva means twenty-four hours. You see, and you always remain in nirguṇa stage, and always see.

Indian man (3): But in that case, sir, material duties, they are forgotten.

Prabhupāda: No.

Indian man (3): Then how can you avoid that, because conflict takes place.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So this is the material side. Similarly, spiritual side also, the same. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). If the sādhu-saṅga is there, then gradually he becomes a devotee.

Jayapatākā: (break) ...looking for a job. He worked for two months and then became devotee. He never took even salary.

Prabhupāda: Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). This is the process. If one comes in contact with devotee or God, then he is simply satisfied by the service. No return. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce. (break) ...guru?

Sudāmā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these workers are coming.

Prabhupāda: Ghosh wanted to give us land that side for making a path to the Ganges.

Jayapatākā: Sell us.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. So we have got a plan beginning from this gate up to the Ganges. If we get land we can do that. (break) Foundation stone in Nellore can be transferred to Madras?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what I'm going to do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Madras is far better place than Nellore. (break) ...if we take charity from such fallen woman, then we have to share his sinful activity. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should be careful from whom we accept charity?

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). This striya, generally they take it, "Even she is prostitute," striya. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim: "They can also go back to home, back to Godhead." Māṁ hi pārtha... If he takes Kṛṣṇa very seriously, then everything is possible. No impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa devotional service is so strong that it cannot be checked by any material impediments. The smārtas, they are thinking like that, "How these mlecchas and yavanas can become a brāhmaṇa?" But they do not know that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness one can jump over. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is very strong. Therefore there are gradual process. Varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, this, that, so many things, pious activities, rituals. But this is the process, step by step, to cross over māyā. But Kṛṣṇa said, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa sincerely, immediately he crosses over. As Kṛṣṇa says in another place, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I'll do immediately." So māyā means pāpa. Unless one is sinful, he cannot be in māyā. So if one surrenders, then he, means, immediately crosses over māyā. So these smārta brāhmaṇas, they consider this thing. They are thinking, "How a person born in other families, they can become brāhmaṇa?"

Hṛdayānanda: So they have no faith in devotional service.

Prabhupāda: No, they are...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was the conclusion last night with Caitya-guru and Mr. Motilal. I couldn't follow in...

Prabhupāda: (break) Then you come to Gītā's instruction, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). And Nārada Muni also says that one must be qualified, not the birth. Just like this Mullik, and we had the same gotra, but the marriage cannot take place within the same family.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Frustrated? Everyone. Whether young or not, everyone is frustrated. He says that the desire in old man... It is expected because he has gone through the gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. That's all. It is not needed. But those who are unable to avoid it—"All right, have for some time. Then become sannyāsī." This is the process. It is not needed. So in old age, after going through these stages, brahmacārī is learning how to stop this sex life, and then, if one is still unable—"All right, take concession for twenty-five years. Then give up this habit. Then take sannyāsa." So that is the process, one who has gone through the stages, expected that he has no more... āra nārī bapa (?) "I have done..." But generally, those who are not trained up, their desire is not diminished. They have got the... That you see in your country, Western country. Seventy-five, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Paying hundreds and thousands of dollars. Where is the...? He has lost all capacity, but still, he'll go. Still, he'll go. This is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). In the club, the son is also dancing with the girl, and the old father is dancing, and by chance, they come in contact. The Western civilization is for this, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, eat voraciously, and all become diabetics. They have got diabetes club, association. That means... What is this? Diabetes is the result of voracious eating. That's all. In old age it becomes very prominent because he eats voraciously, but he cannot digest. And all these foodstuffs becomes... What is called? Glucose?

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We agree that it would be nice to stop death, but where is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, we know. You learn from us. We know. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process.

Bhavananda: But we haven't seen that anyone in your movement...

Prabhupāda: Again "seeing," condemned seeing. Your seeing is like that, that "The sun has come all of a sudden." That is your seeing. "And when the sun is not there, the sun dead." That is your seeing. This is rascal seeing, animal seeing.

Madhudviṣa: Then you want us to have faith.

Prabhupāda: No faith. It is knowledge.

Madhudviṣa: If I can't see, then it means faith.

Prabhupāda: No, you can't see. You are rascal; how you will see? Just like an astrologer can say it is going to happen. You cannot see, but he can see.

Madhudviṣa: That means I have to have faith, though.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, it is useless to talk with them. If you can peacefully sell some books, that's all. Don't enter into very long arguments, because they are all rascals. They cannot understand. Better peacefully, as far as possible, sell some books. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca... This is the process. They cannot understand that because there is soul within the child, therefore child is becoming boy. As soon as there is no soul, the child does not become a boy. This simple philosophy they cannot understand, so what is their position? Now, this car is standing because there is no driver. Anyone can understand. Stand still. It will remain there for thousands of years unless a driver comes. Simple reason. But they are so rascal, they will not understand. So what is the use of talking with them? Simply waste of time.

Devotee (1): These people cannot be converted.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. The dog cannot be converted. But we have to do it with stick. (break) ...that a dead child can be brought scientifically into life and he will grow, and still, they'll argue. So what is the use of argument with these rascals? When they are caught up, that "Do this," "Yes, we shall do in the future," and "What about the present?" there is no answer.

Hari-śauri: Everywhere we see millions and millions of different types of bodies are all growing, there's living force there, but still, they haven't been able to find it, and it's there all the..., everywhere, surrounding them, so what kind of scientists?

Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Who? Who delivers this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if from the government some very confidential secretary comes, you have to receive him just like the president, to please him. So this is the qualification of spiritual master, that he delivers things at it is. He does not make any adulteration. Then he is real representative, and he is to be accepted as God Himself. That is the process. Because here it is said na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). You have got a son, and if I love the son.... There is an English word: "If you love me, love my dog." So the spiritual master is dog-God. He's dog of God, therefore he's dog-God. He's to be worshiped. He's the pet dog of God. Therefore if you love the dog, you love God. Spiritual master will not claim that "I am God," but it is our duty, because the dog is pet.... Here it is said, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69). You have to love that dog. Then you'll get perfection. This is the secret.

yasya deve parā bhaktir

yathā deve tathā gurau

tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ

prakāśante mahātmanaḥ

(ŚU 6.23)

So...?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! (end)

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not living..., to take the philosophy. Follow the policy or process; then your life is successful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like our householders, they have their apartments, but they're always associated with Kṛṣṇa's service.

Richard: Right.

Prabhupāda: Just like we are writing so many books to give them enlightenment. This is the process. It is an educational movement, how to overcome these obstacles. That is the sum and substance.

Richard: Do you think there are any other ways which are equally effective?

Prabhupāda: No.

Richard: Isn't the spiritual benefit that people in the āśrama here get...

Prabhupāda: First of all, you must know what is spirit. They do not know even what is spirit.

Richard: Well, okay, there are many contented people in the world, there are many people who are at peace with themselves...

Prabhupāda: Contented-ass is contented. He has no problem. The best-contented living being is an ass. He has no complaint. So that is not civilization.

Richard: That is not what?

Prabhupāda: That is not civilization, or life.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: It is knowledge. Just like we are moving with this body, but still we know perfectly well that we are not this body. Just like you may move in your car, but you are perfectly aware that you are not the car. When you drive on your car, do you not know that you are not the car, car is different from you? Huh? Don't you know that? Similarly, by cultivation of knowledge one can remain in the car and still he can know that he is not the car. The example is given, just like coconut. Coconut, within the shell, green shell, there is coconut. And when it is dry, if you move you'll understand that the coconut is now separate-(makes sound:) cut-cut-cut-cut—at that time it is taken away for extracting oil. So this is practical. In the beginning, green coconut. And when you can perceive that there is coconut within the shell and it can be separated, but at a time it can be known that the coconut is separated from the shell. And if you move it, it will make-cut-cut-cut. That is the process. It is by action. When after hearing theoretical, that you are separate from this body, if you cultivate that knowledge, then time will come when you'll perceive practically that we are not this body. That means in higher stage of spiritual consciousness the bodily activities, material bodily activities will stop. Only Kṛṣṇa activities will go on. So that, just like the coconut fruit is separate from the shell, similarly, even living within this body, he will be separated from the body. Jīvan mukta sa ucyate. The Sanskrit word is he's liberated even in this life while living in this body. That requires cultivation of the knowledge and practical activities. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not all of a sudden, but there is stage when it will be experienced that he is not this body, he is separate from the body.

Jackie Vaughn: My work, I try to do more for people, especially poor people.

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: This is the purport. "Those eligible for elevation to the transcendental position are mentioned in this verse. For those who are sinful, atheistic, foolish and deceitful, it is very difficult to transcend the duality of desire and hate. Only those who have passed their lives in practicing the regulative principles of religion, who have acted piously and have conquered sinful reactions can accept devotional service and gradually rise to the pure knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then, gradually, they can meditate in trance on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the process of being situated on the spiritual platform. This elevation is possible in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the association of pure devotees who can deliver one from delusion. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one actually wants to be liberated, he must render service to the devotees; but one who associates with materialistic people is on the path leading to the darkest region of existence. All the devotees of the Lord traverse this earth just to recover the conditioned souls from their delusion. The impersonalists do not know that forgetting their constitutional position as subordinate to the Supreme Lord is the greatest violation of God's law. Unless one is reinstated in his own constitutional position, it is not possible to understand the Supreme Personality or to be fully engaged in His transcendental loving service with determination."

Scheverman: Yes, we can certainly agree with that.

Prabhupāda: So, we have to teach people how to refrain from sinful activities. Then, when he's pure, then God will reveal. If we keep them in sinful life, at the same time we want to preach them, it will not be possible. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that those who are animal killer, they cannot understand about God. Vinā paśu-ghnāt. So if in the human society unnecessary animal killing is encouraged, he will never be able to understand what is God. The greatest sinful activity, paśu-ghnāt. So in human society, unnecessarily animal killing is going on. So they are entangled in sinful activities; therefore they are unable to understand what is God.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Cleansing. The brain cleansed so that one can understand. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Cleansing. We have got so many dirty things within ourselves. By this chanting and following these regulative principles, it will be cleansed. Then just like a mirror full of dust, you have to cleanse it. Then you'll see your face very nicely. So this is the process of cleansing the mirror of heart. So when it is cleansed, then you can understand, "Yes, I'm not this body. I am soul. My business is different." That is wanted. Therefore we are encouraging people to come here, chant, dance, and take prasādam. Gradual process. They have come. In the beginning, I had no place to stay even. Now we have got hundreds of big, big palaces.

Kathy Kerr: Why is it that you seem to attract a large following of youth?

Prabhupāda: Because my..., it is fact, it is not a bogus thing. It is not some imagination, "By meditation you become God." We do not bluff like that. We give education, scientific education. The books are there. You'll find this Bhagavad-gītā... Have you read ever? No. Here, how to understand God and myself, my relationship. There is no such thing that "You sit down fifteen minutes and you become God." There is no such bogus thing. It is science.

Devotee (1): I think she was asking also why there are so many young people, why so many young are attracted.

Prabhupāda: Young, they are receptive, and another side is that in the Western countries, your younger generation, they have seen that their father and grandfather are not happy. Is it not a fact? So they are trying to find out something where they will find happiness. As such, they go to so many swamis and yogis who come from India. But there also they are frustrated. But here they are finding the real substance. That you can ask any one of them, they will explain how they have come.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No ācāryas are doing it. All lower-class men. No ācāryas do it. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, these are ācāryas. Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya, they never did it. Outsiders, who did not care for the authority of the ācārya, they did it. Otherwise, we are the ācārya sampradāya. They'll never do that. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Ācāryopāsanam. That is bona fide process of knowledge. Ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. Ācāryopāsanam. This is the process of knowledge. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This is the ācārya. Ācārya will never interpret things like that. You see Rāmānujācārya's comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Nothing changed. But in every śloka he has given evidence from the Vedas, from the Upaniṣads. Ācārya will never change.

Jayādvaita: In the list of items of knowledge, "approaching a bona fide spiritual master." Ācāryopāsanam.

Prabhupāda: This is ācārya.

Indian man (2): Swamiji, you think bhakti is the solution to the problem of the world today?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. That is your natural position. You are protected, and God is protector. That's a fact. You cannot live even for a moment without protection of God. That is your position. That is explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Perhaps you have read it in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Yes. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He immediately gives the definition and position of the living entity: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa. Sanātana Gosvāmī asked Him, "People glorify me that I am very learned scholar." Grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita satya kari' māni. You understand Bengali? Grāmya-vyavahāre kahe paṇḍita. "My these neighbors, they call me paṇḍita. And I accept, 'Yes, I am paṇḍita.' But I am such a paṇḍita," āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni, "I do not know what is my aim of life and what is good for me. I'm such a paṇḍita." Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu answered, 'ke āmi,' 'kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya' ihā nāhi jāni kemane hita haya. So mistake is, Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately pointed out, that "You are learned, of course, there is no doubt, but you are submitting yourself as others..." Now He said that "You have questioned that ke āmi, 'Who I am?' " So He said that "You are servant of God.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice. You decorate Kṛṣṇa very nicely, then you'll forget the business of decorating your person. This is the effect. Because people are busy how to decorate himself. They are spending so much money. Huh? But if you decorate Kṛṣṇa nicely, you'll forget this propensity. This is the process.

Kulaśekhara: You also said if you decorate Kṛṣṇa, make Kṛṣṇa beautiful, your heart will become beautiful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not fashion, it is for our benefit. By seeing Kṛṣṇa beautifully decorated, he'll be satisfied. He'll have no more propensity, "Let me go to the market and find out some nice rag and decorate myself." Finished. Hundreds and thousands of people in the temple, by seeing Kṛṣṇa nicely decorated, he's satisfied. Everyone satisfied.

Kulaśekhara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think Rādhā-Vrndavan-candra are more beautiful than the Deities in London.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (laughter) London differently.

Kulaśekhara: They are very beautiful, but Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra...

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana-candra is village beauty, and He is London beauty. He's town beauty.

Kulaśekhara: I have not seen more beautiful anywhere than Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra. The jewelry...

Prabhupāda: No. Every one is beautiful, but everyone praises our London Deity.

Kīrtanānanda: They have not seen Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This next question is rather interesting. Question sixteen. "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus, be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or viṣiṣṭādvaitans, to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvaita and advaita. This is the process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform. To understand that he is essentially servant of God. The Advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full with six opulences, all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is Advaita. And Dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gītā we understand that God is always the Supreme and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityānaṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief. The difference between the two, that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold. That is one in quality. But god is great and we are minute, small. In that way we are different. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has enunciated acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable, simultaneously one and different. That is real philosophy. So on this philosophy everyone can come if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. Otherwise this is the fact, that the living entity is eternally part and parcel of God. Sanātana. What is that verse? Find out. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātana (BG 15.7). Fifteenth chapter.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes, that is the process in the Bhagavad-gītā. There are 18 chapters. The whole 18 chapters is the education how to know God. And when Arjuna completely in awareness he accepted, "Kṛṣṇa, You are paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma (BG 10.12)," that is understanding. Then surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Unless you know God, how you'll surrender? If some third class man comes, "You surrender unto me." Will you do that? Why shall I surrender to him? You must know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." The 18th Chapter is described to know God, and then Kṛṣṇa proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna did it, "Yes." So without knowing, how you can surrender? Know God. Then you surrender. Otherwise how, blindly, you can surrender? That is not possible. So this is the science how to know God, Bhagavad-gītā. The preliminary. If you want to know more, then read Bhāgavatam. And if you are in intense love with God, then next, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, how the intensification can be more intensified. That is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary book to understand God and surrender. And from the surrendering point, further progress, that is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And when the love is intense, to make it more intensified, that is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mad after God. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. "I find everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa." That is the supreme ecstasy. So these things cannot happen (chuckles) without love. If you love somebody, then if he's not there you find everything vacant. Otherwise why? There are so many things. "How," people will say, "you are seeing vacant? Everything is filled up." That is another stage, transcendental platform. Lover and beloved, they can understand. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. That is the supreme stage of love. Is that clear or not?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That don't mind labor. You try to grow portal here. You have got greenhouse.

Devotee: Some bitter melons. Some karelā melons.

Prabhupāda: Everything. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 7.10). The pitā is there. Properly put it into the womb of mother earth. That is the process. Bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (film projector comes on)

Bhagavān: Last year's European tour.

Devotee: This is the City Hall in Geneva, Switzerland.

Devotee: After you spoke with the mayor in Geneva, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he was worried about the economy of the country, when you explained if we cultivated grains there will be no problem.

Yogeśvara: "If people become devotees of Kṛṣṇa, then who will work?"

Prabhupāda: What was answer?

Hari-śauri: What answer did you give?

Yogeśvara: Do you remember the answer Śrīla Prabhupāda gave?

Devotee: Prabhupāda said we work for cultivating grains. All living entities to live together peacefully. (projector goes off)

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Huh? Ukta, ukta means "said." And sadbhiḥ, "by great personalities." Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas **, tathā, and "accordingly," tathā means "accordingly," bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, those who are actually in transcendental platform, they should accept it. So why? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva... It does not mean Māyāvādī, that he has become God. But kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya, he is the most confidential servant. He's therefore servant-God. He's God, servant-God. God is master-God. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. So why he has become priya? That is, Kṛṣṇa says personally, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ: (BG 18.69) nobody is dearer than him in the whole world. Why? Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidā... (Bg 18.68). "Who preaches this gospel of Bhagavad-gītā among My devotees." So the guru has got two business. He has to make devotees and teach them the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore he's so dear. Not that he has become God, not Māyāvādī philosophy. He's living entity, but because he acts very confidentially on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, therefore he's as good as God. This is bhakti. Not the Māyāvādī philosophy that guru has become God. Guru as God, not become. He's servant-God. And Kṛṣṇa is master-God. So the success is that both the Gods, when one is accepted by both the Gods, then his life is success. Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Therefore one has to fix his faith staunchly in the bona fide guru. So if one has got bona fide guru, and if he follows that bona fide guru, then his life is success. This is the process. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair **. So Gurukula means to teach how to become very, very faithful, cent percent faithful, to the bona fide guru. That is Gurukula. So you have to teach like that. By behavior, by life, by action. That is Gurukula. This sum and substance of... Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam. Where is that?

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So she will not be sorry. Completely separation is not good. And after birth at least for one week the calf should be allowed. Because after this giving birth the milk is not fit for human consumption. The calf should not be allowed to eat more, but at the same time the mother must see once, twice, then it will be all right. Of course, we are born in big, big towns, we do not know, but I know this is the process. In Allahabad I was keeping cow, there was facility.

Bhagavān: I don't think our farms are doing like that. In New Vrindaban they do?

Hari-śauri: What, letting the calves come? I don't think so. You can write a letter to... The whole system's so perfect, it's completely satisfying in every respect.

Prabhupāda: And if you make others dissatisfied for your pleasure, that is sinful. You should act in such a way that nobody is dissatisfied. Then there is balance.

Hari-śauri: Expert management.

Prabhupāda: You have got puffed rice?

Hari-śauri: They may have some in the kitchen, I can check. They have flat rice.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Puffed rice. This Chavana-prash, it says five to ten grams every morning with milk.

Prabhupāda: With milk. Five to ten grams.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: What is that verse?

Pradyumna: "One who knows the transcendental nature of my appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains my eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body. Any other questions? Bring my beads. (long pause) My question is whether you like to remain dependent on this material body. Hmm? If you can live spiritually independent, whether you should remain dependent on this material body and whether to remain dependent on this material body is happy or it is distress? What is your realization? To remain dependent on this material body, is it very good or is it troublesome, huh?

Peter: Suffering.

Prabhupāda: Suffering, very good. If you remain dependent on this material body, then suffering. So why don't you become independent? That is the next question.

Peter: Attachment.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: This is the process, I've described. We have got Deity of the Lord, we offer foodstuff prepared very nicely, and whatever leftover is there, we eat. We dress very nicely with flowers, with ornaments; we give Him a nice place to sit down, to sleep. He also looks after our comfort. In this way, exchange of love.

Ali: Just like when there is a mutual understanding, then...

Prabhupāda: No, there must be practical display.

Ali: Practical display.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply understanding will not do. That is not love, that is appreciation.

Ali: How can I be practical about something without understanding that thing, because I...

Prabhupāda: Understanding, guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati. You try to understand God, and He'll explain what He is. You try to understand.

Ali: But I have been trained through intellect, trying to discern things the way that intellect functions. And I don't have spiritual training.

Prabhupāda: That training is given here, spiritual training.

Ali: And therefore, how am I to understand?

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example, just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything. But when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually, there will be no more material activity. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. That is the process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.

Ali: Is it necessary to get to know the true self before knowing God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, God means spirit, supreme spirit. If you cannot understand what is spirit, then how you'll understand God? You must know what is spirit, what is matter, and when we have little understanding of the spirit, then we can make progress spiritually.

Ali: How does one get to know the true spirit?

Prabhupāda: By knowledge, by knowledge. Just like you are talking. How you are talking? Because the spirit soul is there within you. As soon as it is gone, you cannot talk. Your this body and everything will remain, but you cannot talk, you cannot understand, everything is finished. So this is matter. Body is matter, and the force which is helping you to talk, that is spirit. Now you have to understand it thoroughly.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Fall or rise also. Why do you say fall? You can rise to the highest platform from the fallen condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That you are in a fallen condition, come to the highest platform and talk with God, play with God, dance with God. That is our opportunity. Now it is up to you to take it or not to take it. That is up to you. But our propaganda is this, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ tyaktvā deham (BG 4.9)—this is our propaganda. We are trying to induce people to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then his life is successful. But if you don't try to understand, that is your business. But we are offering that here is a movement, you try to understand Kṛṣṇa. What is the wrong there? But if you don't like, who can force you? We are going country to country, door to door, town to town. What is our business? We are simply requesting that "You try to understand Kṛṣṇa." And Kṛṣṇa says, "As soon as you understand Me, you come to Me." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Now it is up to you. If you take theoretically, that "If by understanding Kṛṣṇa I can go to the eternal, blissful spiritual life," why not try it? And if you inquire that, "All right, it is very good proposal. By going back to Kṛṣṇa, everything is solved. Yes, I'll go. So what is the method?" Then if I say, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," where is the difficulty? Why you are so much determined not to do anything to go back to home, back to Godhead? That is your misfortune. If it is so easy, and it is the means of solving all the problems, why not try it? "All right, let me try in this life." Why don't you do it? It is not a very difficult task. If you don't do it, then you are misfortunate. Therefore Caitanya, kono bhāgyavan jīva. This is the process to be adopted by the some fortunate persons. But they do not want to become fortunate. They want to remain unfortunate. That is the difficulty.

Ali: So obviously this ignorance follows, even when we leave this body.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Kaurava, oh. Yes. No, not that they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they may be. That's all right. My business is to execute what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. That is bhakti.

sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ

tat-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

(CC Madhya 19.170)

Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu (Brs. 1.1.11). We have to act to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. We cannot make our choice, that "This is good, this is bad." Whatever Kṛṣṇa says is all right. Then it is bhakti. Arjuna proposed that "Kṛṣṇa, why shall I fight with my brothers? After all, they are my brothers. They are enjoying the kingdom. Let them enjoy. I shall better live by begging. Why shall I fight with them?" It is a very good proposal, very gentlemanlike. But Kṛṣṇa said, "No, you must fight." Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam anārya-juṣṭam—"You're talking like anārya. Fight." This is the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. And when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa wants it," he said, "Yes"—kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Yes." So we cannot discriminate what is good or bad. We have to act according to the order of Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. But you cannot do independently also. When Kṛṣṇa orders, you do it. And Kṛṣṇa will order when you are faithful servant. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ

bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam

dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

(BG 10.10)

teṣām evānukampārtham

aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ

nāśayāmy ātma...

(BG 10.11)

This is the process. If we manufacture our own ways, that is nonsense, that will not help us.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: From spiritual point of view this has no meaning. This is worldly affection. It is worldly affection. That is not very good asset for spiritual life. Āsakti. One has to give up āsakti. That is the process, renouncement. Voluntarily.

Indian Doctor: Anāsakta-manaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Anāsaktya. Yes. Our Vedic process is that at a certain age you must retire from family life. Voluntary, forceful, giving up association.

Indian Doctor: Even there is worship (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these are āsaktis. This husband and wife dying together, it is admitted(?) because āsakti is there. That āsakti will help him, that the wife will become a husband next life, and the husband will become wife next. And in that way they'll have to take birth again.

Indian Doctor: Soul has got no tax.(?)

Prabhupāda: Karma-bandha.

Indian Doctor: Karma-bandha and jīva.

Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter.

Harikeśa: Karmātmakaṁ yena?

Prabhupāda: Ah, śarīra-bandha. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam, yāvat mano vai karma?

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Maṇihāra: 'Cause some devotees, they are saying...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy. Because we want eating, so He is giving His mercy through eating. Eating nobody will refuse. So by eating he is being favored by Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. You understand Bengali? Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy, He's very merciful. Koribāre jihvā jay. We are accustomed to eat, go to the restaurant, go to the hotel, go to here and there, at home and so on. Simply eating, eating. So this is jihvā lampaṭa. Prostitution of the tongue. Just like a woman prostitute is not satisfied with one man. Similarly, our tongue is like a prostitute. It is not satisfied with simple foods. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes on the street, sometimes on the restaurant, sometimes a hotel. Regular prostitution. It is called tongue prostitution. There are prostitution of three things: prostitution of the tongue, prostitution of the belly, and prostitution of the genital. Three kinds of. Udara-upastha-vegam. Jihvā-udara-upastha-vegam (NOI 1). Straight line. So to stop this prostitution is to control the tongue. The tongue prostitution means he wants to eat varieties of foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, "All right, you eat varieties of prasāda." Then tongue prostitution is controlled and naturally the belly and the genital controlled. Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay. To own victory over the tongue, He has given varieties... Therefore all nice things should be offered to Kṛṣṇa and then take prasāda. They will be benefited.

Maṇihāra: This is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, special.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay.. Jaya means you conquer over the tongue. If you do not give tongue Kṛṣṇa prasāda then the tongue will dictate, "Why not go to the restaurant?" So this is the process. Give everyone nice prasāda. His tongue will be conquered and he'll be conquered. He'll be able to conquer over the prostitution of the senses, and then he'll become a devotee. Hyderabad papers have given us good publicity. Very nice.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are in doubt. If you want to be doubtless, then you accept Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Āśrayaḥ. Not that equal footing. Mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu (BG 7.1). So you have to accept Kṛṣṇa. If you become, if you want to become doubtless. Otherwise, you'll be put into doubt. Here it is said asaṁśayam, "without any doubt." That is the process. And if you want to remain in doubt, you continue. You accept this man, that man, that man, that man, that man. That is your business. But if you want to be doubtless, then you have to accept Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man: So we say in the bhakti-mārga for eternally the Paramātmā and ātmā will remain separate, separate entities.

Prabhupāda: And that is always. You cannot become one with Him.

Indian man: Then in what levels the man got to remain in a separate entity? Always in the same bhakta?

Prabhupāda: Nitya-yuktā upāsate. The one is worshipable, another is worshiper. That's all. Nitya-yuktā upāsate. Upāsate means the worshipable is there and the worshiper is there. Then the question of upāsana. If they become one then where is upāsana?

Indian man: Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling. At one stage...

Prabhupāda: But that is not the fact. Here it is said upāsate. Upāsate means he worships. So if he loses his existence, then where is worship?

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If they see us they may stop us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān (SB 7.6.1). This is the process. From the very beginning of life. In Hyderabad that garden, Bala, Bala... You have been?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't go on the walk.

Harikeśa: I don't remember the name.

Prabhupāda: Bala Havan. Jawar Bala Havan. Three, four big, big buildings, they're closed. What they are teaching to the bālas? No teaching. Very old buildings.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Lodi tomb.

Prabhupāda: Lodi dynasty there were family, Lodi dynasty.

Indian man: Yes, Lodi tomb.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)

Indian man: All the conferences here are educational.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Built by the Americans?

Indian man: Yes. Behind this is a fruit farmer's lot. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the tomb? Very big.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is hankering, "When I shall understand about Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's prema? Such liberated great devotees, ācāryas, they are hankering. Rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti, kabe hāma bujhabo. When I shall understand? And they have understood immediately everything. (Hindi) That is solved. Not so easy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us the facility.

abodha karuṇā-sindhu kāciyā mahān

prahlāda brahmā durlab prema nitāi kore dhana(?)

That is the special verse. It is not very easy thing. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Don't take things very easily. Things are very serious. Therefore we have to go step by step. That is, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, tāṅdera saṅge. Aim should be how to serve Rūpa-Raghunātha. And bhakta-sane bās, to stay with pure devotee who has no other intention. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). This is the process. So do it carefully. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) In the morning we shall go to take my milk from the goat. I'll go early so that I may take the first. And come back, then take my bath early in the morning. I did not take hot water. Cold water. Even in severe winter. Then?

Harikeśa: And one boy called Rādhā-Dāmodara dāsa from New... (end)

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, there is, but you don't take. How it can be done? In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ

sarva-loka-maheśvaram

suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ

jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati

(BG 5.29)

This is the process. But if you don't take it...

Doctor: But if that realization does not dawn... Till that realization...

Prabhupāda: Then you go on barking. That is another thing.

Doctor: (laughs) It's better to bark than to bite.

Prabhupāda: Then that is your satisfaction. You can do that peacefully.

Doctor: One day after barking they will come to a conclusion.

Prabhupāda: No that is... Let it be known, fact, that that will never come. If you do not know what is the aim. That is stated, durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. This is, means, a bad hope, that by this external exhibition of manipulation of energy, they will come to peace. It is not possible. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ adānta-gobhir... (SB 7.5.31). Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. This kind of leading is made by the blind leaders. If the leaders are blind and the followers are blind, what result will be there?

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...up and down. If we keep the temple clean, then our heart will be cleansed. This is the process. (break) ...should be engaged in flower business, in dress business, light and interesting to them. They should not be given any heavy work. Cooking, helping cooking, cutting the vegetables. (break) ...woman should be engaged in something. That is wanted. (break) And to paint these panels also.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, outside. So it will be painted. These decorations. Oh, the panels here?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: You mean the panels. Yes, inside and outside.

Prabhupāda: There are so many pictures. And what is that boy?

Hari-śauri: Viṣṇu Das.

Prabhupāda: He can do every panel in three days.

Haṁsadūta: I've written him that Prabhupāda suggested he might come and do it.

Prabhupāda: He knows the art, how to do it. (break) ...unique, American. What is this American? I could not reach. (?) (break) ...conditioner, to keep the air conditioner. There was (indistinct).

Haṁsadūta: In some temples which are built like this with a courtyard, they put a screen over the top so that the birds don't come in. Can we do that or is that because...

Prabhupāda: No, monkeys.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is the process of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt (SB 11.17.27). If you go to ācārya, then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? Ācāryopāsanam. Go to ācārya. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Kṛṣṇa has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled. If you want magician, see Kṛṣṇa, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And he expanded himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand, after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here?" No. He is present everywhere. That is magic. Nārada was surprised that "How Kṛṣṇa is maintaining sixteen thousand wives?" He saw in each and every home sixteen thousand establishment and Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. So this is magic. Why don't you see Kṛṣṇa's magic? Why you are so much allured by a tiny magician? That is your misfortune. Poor heart, poor magic. See the real magic. If you want to see magic, see the Kṛṣṇa's magic. Kṛṣṇa, when He was three months old, the Pūtanā came to kill the child by poisoning but she was killed. So in this way, from the very beginning of Kṛṣṇa's appearance, He's killing so many demons. So why don't you see this magic? If you want to see magic, see Kṛṣṇa's magic. Why the poor magic? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And each loka...

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, what Kṛṣṇa directs, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā means to hear the truth from the spiritual master. You take this. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna accepted, when he was puzzled whether to fight or not to fight, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru. Śiṣyas te 'ham. "Now I don't want to talk or argue with You," because as soon as you become a śiṣya you have to accept the statement of the guru. That is the relationship between guru and śiṣya. You cannot talk with guru from the same level. Whatever guru says you have to accept. Otherwise don't accept guru. Don't make a fashion of taking guru just like you keep a dog. Guru, first of all you have to select. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to select such a person where you can fully surrender. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna like that. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all. "I have surrendered to you." This is the first instance (instruction?). That means whatever He says, and at last He says, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14). This is... Not that you make cut cut.(?) That is the process. Here is the paramparā. Kṛṣṇa is speaking Arjuna and Arjuna is accepting, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi (BG 10.14). This is... Not that you make cut-cut (?). "Whatever You have said." Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). "You have said that You are the Supreme, paraṁ brahma. I accept it." This is paramparā. So we have not seen Kṛṣṇa talking, but the words are there. So Arjuna has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the paraṁ brahma. How we have change of, "Kṛṣṇa is..."? So first of all we have to accept by the paramparā system. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. That paramparā is now gone, Kṛṣṇa says, therefore I am speaking to you again age-old-system. Not that new. Purāṇa. And now you take. How Arjuna is accepting? Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). (Hindi) That is not Bhagavad-gītā understanding. You take paramparā system, you try to understand Kṛṣṇa as Arjuna has understood. That is bhakti. Otherwise it is (indistinct). There is no meaning. But if anyone has accepted the paramparā system as Arjuna has understood then he can speak on Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise he has no right to speak anything. That is paramparā.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Brainwash.

Mr. Malhotra: Brainwash, ācchā. How you entered in their hearts?

Prabhupāda: Mesmerism, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Mr. Malhotra: Hare Kṛṣṇa mesmerism. That is also mesmerism, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Prabhupāda: Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). This is the process of cleansing the heart. So if it is done properly, everyone becomes cleansed of all dirty things. Naturally he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Mr. Malhotra: I was rather very much surprised when I first met, Prabhupāda, about four or five devotees on the streets of this Honolulu. Because I went from this side, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, and then entered in America through Honolulu, Hawaii. So when I went I was just in the morning, I was trying to get the tourist bus moving in the whole city to see. And then on the main road, you know that main road, have you been to Honolulu?

Prabhupāda: No. He has gone.

Mr. Malhotra: Ācchā. You have been to Honolulu?

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, realization takes time. Therefore there is no question of realization. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says you simply repeat as Kṛṣṇa says. That will save you. The so-called political leaders, they have no realization, but they manufacture their ideas. That is dangerous. Mislead themselves and others. In Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, ācāryopāsanam. Amānitvam adambhitvam. This is the process of knowledge. These so-called scholars and politicians, they have no ācārya. Instead of being amānitvam, they're mani... "I have become a leader, so whatever I shall say, it will be accepted." This is going on. Very bad. It is clearly said, as soon as you give up the ācārya system it is rotten. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So things which is rotten, what you'll get benefit? That is going on. Therefore in spite of so many Gītā commentators, big, big leaders, scholars, not a single person is converted into a devotee. Not a single person amongst their followers. It's useless talking. Therefore it is forbidden. Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtam... Because they are not Vaiṣṇava, politicians and—reject them immediately. Immediately. That is the injunction. I wrote Mahatma Gandhi that "You are so respectful. People have got... Now you have got your svarāja. Please take Bhagavad-gītā seriously and let us preach."

Dr. Patel: Raj Gopalacharya in his commentary, he has mentioned that Bhagavad-gītā should be learned through the ācāryas.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: As Gopalacharya has commented. He was a Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Raj Gopalacharya was sensible man amongst the whole lot.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Caitanya Mahāprabhu. "By guru's mercy and Kṛṣṇa's mercy, one can enter into bhakti-mārga." Without guru's mercy you cannot do, and without Kṛṣṇa's mercy also you cannot do. Kṛṣṇa is situated within your heart, and if you are sincere, Kṛṣṇa will give you the right guru. And then, by guru's mercy, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa. This is the process.

Indian (1): All hours... 'Cause passion will come you, when at times of anger gets temporarily the better of you, what is the guidance which can bring you back to normality? Because in anger you can do a lot of things. Because you lose, spontaneously you lose your temper. Though it can be for the good...

Prabhupāda: When you can conquer over your anger, then you become gosvāmī. Vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam. Krodha-vegam. Mānasa-vegam udara-vegam upastha-vegam, etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt (NOI 1). A guru... One cannot become guru who has no control over these things: vāco vegam, the urge of speaking nonsense. Vāco vegam. Krodha-vegam, the urge of anger. Mānasa-vegam, urge of mind. Udara-vegam, urge of the belly. Upastha-vegam, urge of the genital. In this way, all the six vegas, one who can control, he is fit for becoming guru.

Dr. Patel: Kāma, krodha, and lobha. It can be only one... If you have, you understand the greatness of God and your mind perpetually in the sacred feet of God, then you don't have this kāma, krodha and lobha. That is what other ācāryas also say.

Prabhupāda: Vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam udara-vegaṁ mānasa-vegam, etān vegān. The six vegas, one who can control, he is gosvāmī. Svāmī means master, and go means indriyas.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: God has nothing to do personally. As we see a very big rich man, he hasn't got to do anything personally, but he has got so many assistants. They're doing everything. Similarly, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. But when the things are done, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā. The knowledge is so perfect and things are done so nicely that it is automatically being done. And the rascals who cannot see behind there is God, they simply see this nature: "The nature is working automatically." It is not the fact. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). There is adhyakṣana. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. Even the sun planet, such big illuminative, powerful, it is also rotating by the order of God. So similarly, we are addressing the potencies of the Lord. We cannot jump over God, because potencies are so important. They are actually helping hand to God. So if they are pleased, then God will be pleased automatically. Why we address, "Hara"? "Hare Kṛṣṇa." The Kṛṣṇa's potency, Rādhārāṇī; Rāma's potency, Sītā... Therefore, first of all, Sītā-Rāma; Hare Kṛṣṇa; Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa; Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. We address the first, potency. So if I request your wife, "Mother, give me this help," and if she gives that "This man is very nice," you cannot refuse. You cannot refuse. So this is the process, the appealing to the potency of Kṛṣṇa, "So now I am so much harassed. Kindly lift me and engage me in Your service. Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is Hare Kṛṣṇa. "I have served so many life the dictation of my senses, kāmādi." Katidhā na katidhā palita durni deṣaḥ: "My lusty desires, my senses, they have dictated me in so many ways which I should not have carried. Still, I have done it." Kāmādināṁ katidhā na katidhā palita durnideṣaḥ. Nideṣaḥ. You are my master. You are asking, "Bring me a glass of water." That's very nice. But sometimes you may say, "You go to that person and speak this lie." I don't want to speak lie, but because I am your servant, I have to do that. Otherwise, my service will be cancelled.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No... Suppose a military dress... Then there are different dresses. When it is understood properly, dress is immaterial. The military dress... Everyone knows that their business is to kill. That does not mean they are hated. Similarly, people see, and when they understand, that is the process.

Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book, when Kamsa was being a little lenient with Vasudeva, Nārada Muni thought to speed things up, so he instigated Kamsa to become frightened about Vasudeva and Devaki and their children. So similarly, it appears that in order to speed up Kṛṣṇa consciousness's infiltration and overtaking this materialistic society, that all of these brainwashing charges and...

Prabhupāda: It has got... The chanting has got spiritual power. That will rectify everything. Even there is misunderstanding, it will be rectified. That is spiritual power.

Rāmeśvara: The chanting for the mass of people is by reading your books.

Prabhupāda: That will rectify everything. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). All misunderstanding gone away.

Rāmeśvara: We have to be very clever.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: In America it requires being very clever to get them to read your books. Even if they buy millions of books, there's no guarantee that they're reading it. So we have to make other kinds of propaganda.

Prabhupāda: No, at least it is expected they will read: "What is this book I have purchased? Let me see." Reading, of course, meant for intelligent class.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Now, this, this is fact, that when this body is no more working, the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body. That they cannot see, but it acts. This science they do not know. Seeing is always not competent, material eye. Just like the example is given that flavor is carried by the air. It is being carried, but I cannot see. But it is being carried. That is transmigration of the soul. The soul is carried by the subtle body to another particular body, and according to his karma under superior examination, the soul, a very small particle, one ten-thousandth part of the hair, he is put into the semina of the particular father, and he injects. So the soul takes place in the womb of the mother. She supplies the material to develop the next body. This is the process, transmigration. Then, when the body is complete to come out, then another body works. Another chapter begins: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So this is development.

Rāmeśvara: They have a description of how these people experience communication, talking or hearing. He says, "Hearing can only be called so by analogy." Mostly they say that they do not really hear physical voices or sounds. Rather, they seem to pick up the thoughts of the persons around them. As one woman put it, "I could see people all around, and I could understand what they were saying. I did not hear them audibly, as I am hearing you. It was more like knowing what they were thinking, but only in my mind, not in their actual vocabulary. I would catch it the second before they opened their mouth to speak." Like reading minds.

Prabhupāda: Mind is also material. Up to ether. Beyond that, ether, there is soul.

Rāmeśvara: That was a description of one person who had this experience of being outside their body.

Prabhupāda: No, no... Death means all previous experience forgotten. That is death. Otherwise there is no death.

Hari-śauri: Yes. The key here is that all these people actually came back into their bodies. They actually didn't...

Rāmeśvara: They didn't fully die.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why one is taking birth as a brāhmaṇa and why one is taking birth as a dog? So kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18). If you become, associate with sattva-guṇa, then you are elevated more and more. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. You remain where you are if you associate rajo-guṇa. And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you practice jaghanya, most abominable practices of tamo-guṇa, then go down. You cannot check it. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Guṇaiḥ again. Just like if you have infected some disease, cholera, you must suffer from cholera. If you have infected disease of smallpox, then you must suffer from smallpox. You cannot check it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. You should be very cautious so that you may not be affected by this infectious disease. Therefore you require sadācāra. Always remain neat and clean and always associate with sādhus and Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be protected. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). This is the process. Otherwise kāraṇaṁ guṇa... As you infect with jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ (BG 14.18), then you'll... There are many place... Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). If you want to be liberated, then mahat-sevā—you have to associate with mahat, mahātmā, not durātmā. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. If we become infected with yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam, Then focus will be... Therefore these centers are being opened: "Come here. Live with Vaiṣṇavas. We are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even if you do not like, by their association you'll do it. Then you'll be purified." Anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. "If you are practiced to drink tea and smoke, in our association you'll have to give it up because there is no supply of tea or smoking, meat-eating. Naturally you'll have to give it up." Therefore sādhu-saṅga required. Who is sādhu? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Sa mantavyaḥ. He's sādhu. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Here you'll find they have no other business, simply Kṛṣṇa bhajana. So if you associate, you'll also do.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is explained in English.

Guest (8): Ah, that is what I want.

Guest (1): It has been translated into fifteen languages.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all Bhagavad-gītā. These are Bhagavad-gītā. We have translated English, Chinese, Japanese, all European languages-Spanish, Portugal, Dutch, Swedish, Italian. They are accepting it. This is the process to know. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. The whole world is chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We are known as "Hare Kṛṣṇaś." You read another verse aloud. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate.

Pradyumna:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

Prabhupāda: Just like there is infection, and if you take a vaccine, then it will not infect, the contaminous disease. Similarly, if you take to bhakti-yoga, then you'll not be infected by these three guṇas. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya. You'll remain immune. This bhakti-yoga... Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena (BG 14.26). Not vyabhicāreṇa, avyabhicāreṇa. Then you'll remain above the qualities transcendental. This is bhakti-yoga. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām (BG 9.14). If you cannot do anything, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours. Bas. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma... (BG 14.26). You remain on the brahma stage. (long pause-kīrtana in background)

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ḍāb water? Oh. Here is not ḍāb water? This is ḍāb water.

Devotee (1): It's already opened, this ḍāb.

Prabhupāda: So we shall take it. This is Vedic civilization, that train the children how to become restrained, subdued, from the very beginning. Then he will take other education.

Brahmānanda: But what is the process for subduing?

Prabhupāda: That he should act simply for the benefit of the guru. This is the process. He has no personal interest. He'll go by the order of guru to beg alms from different householders and... They are innocent children. They'll go, ask, "Mother, give me some alms." And the mother also knows that "My child or his child, they are all neighbors' child. They will give." And whatever collection is there, he'll bring it to guru. So he does not claim that "I have collected. It is my property." No. It is guru's property. This is the first training. He works so hard to collect, but the property belongs to the guru. Guror hitam. This is first training. And that is the meaning of karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. That gentleman was quoting this. He does not know what is the meaning. He... Karmaṇy e... He is engaged to work, to collect. Just like you are doing that. You are, whole day you are working for the selling books, but you don't make a farthing even out of the profit. That is for the guror hitam, for the benefit of guru.

Jayādvaita: That is one of their objections, that "These people, young people, work all day... "

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayādvaita: "...and they give all the money to the guru."

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kindly help me.

Mr. Rajda: No, no, we will think ourselves duty-bound. Oh, I feel intensely about it. There is no question about it.

Prabhupāda: And I guarantee that if they take any part in politics, you can drive away immediately. They have no.... They have given everything. They are not thinking that they are Americans. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). This is the process of bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Upādhi. This is upādhi. I am living being, but I have got some designation, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." These are designation. So then they are M.P... This is designation. You are not M.P... You are living being, part and parcel of God.

Mr. Rajda: Correct.

Prabhupāda: And this designation can be moved, removed at any moment. Indira Gandhi, no more prime minis... Designation finished. So sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), when one become free all designation, tat-paratvena nirmalam, simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes purified. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhakti... Then bhakti begins.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: And still more magic? The world is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Boliye?

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

He is yogi. There are many varieties of yogis. And Kṛṣṇa concludes, "Of all the yogis, big, big yogis, the person who is always remembering Kṛṣṇa and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is first class." This is said by Kṛṣṇa, not by me. Therefore it is authorized statement. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all these mystic powers... They may be temporarily some magic, but Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is always remembering Me," satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14), "he is first-class yogi." So all these persons who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa according to the prescribed rules and regulations, without any offense... There are ten kinds of offenses. So in the beginning there may be offenses. It doesn't matter. It will be rectified. Offenseless chanting means mukti, and then pure chanting means love of Godhead. There are three stages. In the beginning, when one begins chanting, it is not pure. There are so many offenses. But chanting, chanting, the offenses become purified. Offenseless chanting is not purified completely, but it is offenseless. So offenseless chanting makes one liberated, and then pure chanting makes one lover of God. This is the process. So chanting is definite mystic power. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam: (CC Antya 20.12) "By chanting, your heart becomes purified." Ceto-darpaṇa. We are suffering in this material world on account of... (background talking) (aside:) Ask him not to talk loudly. On account of impurities... (aside:) What is the use of talking? The first impurity is identifying... (aside:) Stop him. Don't talk at all.

Indian man (1): It is one gentle..., one person. He says, "I am Bengali." And he has got some trouble. He was told that "If you have got any physical trouble, go to the medical practitioners."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is there, the rules and regulations. This Deity worship is accepting regulative principle, abide by the orders of guru. That is there. This is the process. Just like all our disciples, they write that "We have got now life." Because they are trying to follow, they are getting-gradually, gradually.

ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva

guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja

(CC Madhya 19.151)

mālī hañā kare sei bīja āropaṇa

śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana

(CC Madhya 19.152)

It is like a creeper. So you get the seed from guru and sow it and regularly pour water. That watering is śravaṇa-kīrtana. Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye secana. How simplified.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made everything very simplified.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viśanti, that from higher planets, they fall down with water, and then again, like bubbles, begins from water, life. As the water dries up, then vegetables, and then... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa... Then moving animals and ants, reptiles. In this way, birds, beast, then four-legged animals, then uncivilized man, then civilized man with Vedic knowledge, then God realization. This is the process.

Bharadvāja: Very wonderful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We have this evolution in our second exhibit. We want to show that in the beginning the Lord was there, and that by His energy the universe is created and all the different elements are evolved by His glance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything is generated from His energy. He is original cause of two energies, material and spiritual. Therefore He is the original cause.

Bharadvāja: In the second part we're also showing that the Lord, out of His infinite kindness and mercy, has created the material world so that the living entities can be corrected.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a chance to come to understanding.

Bharadvāja: We also have a diorama here of Isaac Newton showing the model of the universe to his friend, and his friend says, "Oh, such a brilliant thing, such a wonderful model. Who has made this?" And he says, "Nobody. It just appeared here." And he makes his point that if such a small thing has taken so much intelligence and skill, then what to speak of the great universe that we see before us? How could it have come from nothing?