Prabhupāda: Tiṣṭhāmi. That's it. Therefore a devotee's position is sublime. Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee also. Actually this happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he happened to be a Mohammedan, Lord Caitanya's devotee. So in those days, five hundred years ago, there was some Hindu-Muslim... Still that is going on. So he did not enter Jagannātha temple to create some disturbance. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also did not ask him that "You go to Jagannātha temple. Who can check you?" Of course, if Caitanya Mahāprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting. So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridāsa Ṭhākura going to Jagannātha, Jagannātha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily. It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And when Haridāsa Ṭhākura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra and he performed the funeral ceremony. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was so... And he was given the title nāmācārya, "authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa."
This is practical (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"that is practical"
|"this is a practical"
|"this is also one practical"
|"this is our most practical"
|"this is our practical"
|"this is practical"
|"this is scientific and practical"
|"this is showing the practical"
|"this is the practical"
|"this is very practical"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yadubara: Then there is no need to deal with the problem then.
Prabhupāda: There is no problem. At least we Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we have no problem for eating. Is it? Is there any problem?
Haṁsadūta: There's problem. Eating too much!
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is practical. If you have any problem, you join us. You will have no problem for eating. That I can guarantee you. Wherever you go, you shall eat sumptuously. Yes.
Devotee (3): Is it all right to finish rounds(?) in the temple when there's nothing to do?
Prabhupāda: No.
Devotee (3): This afternoon.
Prabhupāda: Not afternoon. You have to do it in the morning when there is nothing.
Guest (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: What is charka?
Prabhupāda: Yes, spinning. Because he was spinning daily. Just like you are chanting sixteen rounds, he was spinning sixteen rounds. (laughter) And he said frankly, "Are you spinning charka?" They said, "No sir." "Oh, then I am not going there. My god is charka." That is practical. We have got experience. And actually he was refusing. Just like we are insisting, "You must chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra sixteen rounds," he was... There were so many charkas daily selling. People took it very seriously. We also took charka and that, what is called?
Devotee: Handloom.
Prabhupāda: Handloom. And there was very good business. So many charkas and that handloom was sold in the shops because everyone was purchasing and purchasing. And they were stacked and thrown away some time after. So... Because Mahatma Gandhi asked, everyone did. You see? So he also asked our maṭha people that "Are you spinning a charka?" They said, "No, sir." "Then I am not going." He refused the invitation. Does it mean he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa? He surrendered to charka. That's all. (laughter) And if you say, "Charka is also Kṛṣṇa," oh, there will be no more argument. (laughter)
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Avatāra means avatāran. (Hindi) What is the meaning of descent? What is the meaning of descent? Coming down. Coming down. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Previous year... Anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is... I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava, and there is no freedom. And this is the... They are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the... There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā... In Bengal, they worship Durgā Mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā Mātā, the Goddess Durgā is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see. This is story, just try to understand, that "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." Is that happiness? No food, no clothing. Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all. This is the sum and substance.
So in your country also that position may come. Now in America you are happy. Because the nature is changing, jagat. Jagat means which is changing. So before any further changes come, you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over your country. You should utilize these fruits and flowers for Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Don't slip down. That is my request. Whatever I could do, I have done. Now it is up to you to spread this movement all over the world. Don't go away. There is some tendency, somebody. Therefore, I ask you, no. This is all nonsense. This is māyā's peeping, "Why you are working so hard for a sentiment, chanting and dancing? Come on, take to service and be happy with your wife and children." This is māyā. This is māyā. I did not ask my students to marry to become a lost child. I wanted to give them some facility, because you cannot do without wife. But now I am seeing that some of them are slipping away. This is not to be done, no. Every one of us as good as sannyāsī because we have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. Sannyāsī does not mean simply having no wife and children, he's a sannyāsī. No. Nothing to possess except Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsī. One should know that "I will have simply Kṛṣṇa, nothing more." Then he is sannyāsī. This mentality, that "I have nothing to serve, I have nobody to serve except Kṛṣṇa." But if you serve Kṛṣṇa, you will serve everyone. Just like I was teaching this Indian gentleman. The same process. If you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the leaves, and the flowers are all served. If you put the foodstuff here, not here, not here, then automatically this is served. Although the foodstuff is here, automatically this is served, this is served, this is served, this is... Everybody is served. This is practical.
Prabhupāda: Electric guitar, if it is, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa only, nothing else, then it is all right. But as far as possible, simply mṛdaṅga and kartāl. But if GBC thinks that it attracts more people so they give contribution, that is a different thing. Otherwise there is no need.
Parivrājakācārya: I think nothing can attract like mṛdaṅgas and karatālas.
Prabhupāda: That is practical, we have seen.
Parivrājakācārya: When we put guitars, it waters it down. It doesn't have the same effect.
Prabhupāda: All GBC members should organize like that. Then everything will be all right. And sell books. Now you... What is the name? Maṇḍalībhadra, he is slow. So you translate.
Haṁsadūta: Okay. Because there are others, they are competent. I have others, they are competent.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Simply you check that they are not writing nonsense.
Haṁsadūta: Oh yes. That I can do.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And print it and distribute. And another thing. If you can print yourself, it is all right, But if you want printing cost from the general book fund, then whatever you sell you deposit there. You deposit and take, deposit and take, deposit and take. Then when, even if you have no money you'll get money. And then you deposit. But if you spend it, then you cannot expect from the general book fund.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is the process. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they will be God-realized. Just like these boys. Four years ago they did not know what is meant by Kṛṣṇa. So now they are so perfect. Of course, we cannot be perfect anyway, but they are far, far better than any Kṛṣṇa-bhakta in the world. Even Indians, they say, "Oh, they are better than us." And what is the process? Simply they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra they are becoming God-realized. Even last night we had meeting with the Christian fathers. They very much appreciated. And in Boston one Christian priest issued literature, that "These boys, they are our boys. They are so mad after God, but we could not do." So this is... Why they have become so? Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So anyone chants will get this status. This is practical. Not only... In anywhere. We have got many Chinese, many Japanese, Africans, and Canadians and Europeans, and Australia also, we have got many Australian boys. So wherever we are chanting, it is being effective. The real purpose is to realize God. So that is being done. So we have to accept the method recommended for a particular age and time. Then we become successful. (break) ...likes you? Vipada(?). No.
Prabhupāda: So one who does not know, it is complex. One who is in knowledge, for him it is not complex. Therefore, Bhāgavata says anvayād vitarekabhyam(?). Anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is completely well versed. Kṛṣṇa just like says, "Yes, I spoke this philosophy millions of years. I remember; you have forgot." There we have to study, how Kṛṣṇa's brain is. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Yes, I spoke." When Arjuna defied, "How can I believe that You spoke millions of years ago this philosophy to sun-god?" "Yes, that's a fact. You also were there. But I remember, you don't remember." The child, just like father says, "My dear child, when you were two years old you fell down and there was a fracture in your brain." "Yes?" He cannot remember. The father can say, "Yes, it happened. You have forgotten. I remember." This is practical. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can remember everything, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). You may not remember. You have no such brain, you are teeny. But why should you defy Kṛṣṇa? Why should you deny the facility for Kṛṣṇa? That means you are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, He is like me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā. Because you are rascal, you are thinking Kṛṣṇa is like another rascal like you. That is poor fund of knowledge. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). "Because they do not know, rascal, what I am, what I can do," avajānanti, "they think, 'Kṛṣṇa is like me.' "
Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.
Rāmeśvara: They say nothing practical.
Prabhupāda: That means they do not follow any practical. That is their rascaldom. Nothing practical means they do not know what is the practical realization of God. That is their ignorance. And still they are claiming to be teachers. That is cheating. Just like these so-called scientists, they are theorizing, but they cannot practically prove. Therefore, their knowledge is imperfect. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Jñānavān, the wise, after many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, when he surrenders, that is practical. Simply knowledge is useless, theoretical. When he practically surrenders, that is end of knowledge. That is perfection.
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is stated. You don't read Bhagavad-gītā? You don't read?
Rāmeśvara: In class we have, every evening.
Prabhupāda: So in the Tenth Chapter it is said, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). Do you know this verse? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. "One who is engaged in devotional service with love and faith," buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi, "I give him intelligence." That is stated. Satata-yuktānām, "Twenty-four hours engaged with love and faith in My service, I give him intelligence, not to others." That is the qualification. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi te yena mām upayānti. What kind of intelligence? By which one can come back to home, back to Godhead. Not for material enjoyment, or bluffing or cheating. Not that intelligence. That intelligence also given by Him, indirectly. "If you want to cheat, all right, I will give you how to cheat others." That is material. In the material world, we can cheat. In the spiritual world, there is no question of cheating.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, all my disciples, they're taught.
Guest (1): No, I didn't mean disciples. I meant children, little ones.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. We have got children's school also.
Guest (1): They understand, do they not?
Prabhupāda: Everyone will understand. Because hearing is there. Everyone, even a child, after hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he claps, he dances, he joins. That is practical. We have seen. Small child, say, four, five months old, on the lap of the mother, he's also moving, clapping. So this, this is also yoga system, bhakti-yoga. So it is so practical that even a small child can take part in it, without any advanced knowledge. Universal. Universal. Even dogs sometimes, they take part. We have got practical experience. They don't like to leave us. Yes, I have seen.
Devotee: I have too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They like this chanting and dancing. So we are, our business is to awake the sleeping man. Sleeping man means when you sleep you have no knowledge. If somebody kills you, you cannot protect yourself. Sleeping, that is sleeping stage, that we do not know what is happening. That is called sleeping stage. Even if you are so-called awakened, if you do not know the value of life, that is sleeping stage. That is sleeping stage. So in that sleeping stage, we are trying to awake the human society. A man, a human being, may be materially very qualified, but he does not know what is the value of human life, he's sleeping. He's sleeping. Can you distinguish...? You are all educationists. What is the difference between a human being and an animal?
Prabhupāda: Make show. So we should not increase the show very, very much. Show shortcut show. That's all. Real business is... Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, they have been condemned by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, smārta and jāta-gosāñi. Smārta-paṇḍita, very serious about performing ceremonial rituals, they are called smārtas. This Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, also Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, that is also imitation of smārtaism. It is called smṛti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work. And as far as possible, should be heard... That is... And officially, krkshaharama (Prabhupāda chants very fast with words running into each other indistinctly). Not like that (chants again like that) Not like that. That will not... Every word should be distinctly chanted and heard, not official. So stress on this point. As far as possible, people should be encouraged to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and try to bring the ecstasy and dance. Even there is no ecstasy, dance, it will bring ecstasy. Dancing is so nice. Chanting, dancing and take prasādam. Take rest. That's all. Not that you shall take rest like Kumbhakarṇa. (Prabhupāda laughs) Just to, I mean to say, answer the call of this deficient body, we have to take little rest. But as far as possible this should be conquered. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over eating, sleeping... Stress on saṅkīrtana, and let them chant and dance as long as possible. If they can chant and dance twenty-four hours, that is very good. That should be stressed. Just see, this boy yesterday, he came, he said, "Oh, I like this saṅkīrtana very much." Immediately. He was talking of so much, yoga and this and that, so many nonsense, but he came this morning. He said, "Oh, I will come again. It is very nice." Saṅkīrtana has got so power. Stress on saṅkīrtana, chant yourself, induce others, dance. Whole thing will be a successful. And especially outside India, these rituals and ceremonials, that will be simply artificial. They cannot take it seriously. But saṅkīrtana they can take seriously. This is practical. And if you recite all the Vedic hymns throughout the whole day they will join, but they will not benefit out of it. So why should we waste. Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Karma, yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: ...one life to another.
Prabhupāda: Yes, transferred. Yes.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is practical. If you become nice student...
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Karma can be...
Prabhupāda: ...then, in future, you become a nice professor. But if you do not study nicely, how you can become a professor?
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So karma you cannot deny.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, in this life, my karma... That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa. According to your karma and by the supervision of superior authority, you get a body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). The living entity gets a certain type of body according to the karma. And this is allotted by superior authority.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).
Reporter: Is this in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam.
Reporter: Bhāgavatam, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. Big, big politicians, they are sticking to their position up to the point of death. Even Gandhi, unless he was fired, he could not give up.
Reporter: But he was not in power or position.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, could not give up the politics. I wrote Gandhi, "You have so much respect now, now you have got sva-rāja, you give up this business, let us preach Bhagavad-gītā, people will hear you." Before starting this movement, long ago, I wrote him a letter.
Reporter: But he was praying, he was going to pray Hare Kṛṣṇa. He was devotee.
Prabhupāda: He was for political emancipation.
Reporter: Hm?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to discuss, but the thing is that...
Reporter: (laughs)
Prabhupāda: ...these politicians, they do not grow vairāgya, even up to the point of death.
Prabhupāda: Interior, oh.
Guest (2): And... (break) ...and become one now.
Prabhupāda: You are always. But you forgot. That is our position.
Guest (2): No, I believe I was respecting all religions, all gods, but now I think I lay more emphasis on Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). (break) "...anyone greater than Me." That is God. There are so many Gods, false gods, nowadays. Can anyone say that "Nobody is greater than me"? All these rascal Gods, can he say? Can anyone say? Immediately... He feels some sickness. Immediately he has to call greater God, physician. And he's claiming, "I am God." We don't want such kind of God, manufactured God. We want real God. When we see nobody is greater than Him, that is God. (break) ...We accept so many pseudo, pretender as God. But we do not know how to test him, whether he is greater than everyone? Whether nobody is greater than him? Then he's God. Can you find out any, so many gods, who has no greater than him, or equal to him? You are claiming You are God, I am also claiming, God.
Prabhupāda: By the result, not theoretical.
Śyāmasundara: No. So we were showing pictures and books.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Every sane man should appreciate. When European and American young men, who are after material sense gratification, they're taking sannyāsa, it is not joke. They should appreciate it. In an age where material sense enjoyment is very prominent, and they give up everything for Kṛṣṇa, and they're going far away from their comfortable position... Just like Brahmānanda has gone to Africa. So what for? Unless they appreciate Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how they take up this job? This is practical. There is no question of theoretical.
Brahmānanda: You said that last night when you spoke that about we are actually siddhas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: We are not...
Prabhupāda: That I wanted to prove... (laughs)
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...that these boys are siddhas. Others, they do not know what is siddhi.
Brahmānanda: They have not even left family connection, you said.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That I... That Mr. Kokoor...
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see the government, but when things are going nicely, you must accept, there is government. That is... When things are going on very nicely, regularly, the sun is rising regularly, the moon is rising regularly, the seasons are changing and the waves are flowing, everything, then you have to accept that there is government. And as we have got experience here in this material world... Government is impersonal, but that at the end there is a president. Similarly, the whole government, the complete government, may be impersonal in the beginning, but at the end there is a person, that Supreme Person, Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Yes. Paramātmā is representative of God. Just like the president has got so many representative governors, similarly, Paramātmā is the localized representative of God, and God is person, and the whole government is impersonal. This is the conception. When we say "government," you cannot localize that "Who is that person, government?" That is impersonal. But when we find governor, then localized persons. And then above them, all of them, when there is president, he is supreme person. This is our practical example. Similarly, nature is working impersonally, but there are officers. They are called demigods. And above them all there is the Supreme Lord. He is Bhagavān. And this idea wherefrom has come? The president, the governors, and the government. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). It has come from there. Because of the origin, the same thing is there.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, our proposition is that one class of men must lie down like that.
Rūpānuga: That is their business.
Prabhupāda: That is their business. They must.
Karandhara: Just like there they build big buildings for them and let them...
Prabhupāda: But they do not go. In Bombay also, municipality has constructed big buildings, but they do not go. They hire it, yes, they get, to some gentleman. They get some fifty rupees and "All right, you take." And he lives in a hut. Yes. This is practical. They don't like. Just like a worm in the stool. You take it away. He will again, again go. (laughter) Again go there. You are very philanthropist: "Oh, my dear friend, why you are in the stool? Come on, here." "No, no, sir, I will go there again." How can you check it? Nature's law.
Karandhara: Well, they say it can be checked by time and education.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that time, you wait for time. By that time you will die.
Karandhara: Well, just like a hundred years ago in the United States...
Prabhupāda: No. These discrepancies will go on because this whole material world is being conducted by three qualities. You will have three qualitative persons.
Girirāja: And nobody wants to die.
Prabhupāda: Nobody wants to die.
Girirāja: If the soul is not eternal, where has that desire...
Prabhupāda: No. This is eternity. This is practical eternity. You have changed so many times your body, but you are the same person. Therefore you are eternal, in spite of changing body. This is simple argument.
Prajāpati: I used that argument once, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the scientists said to me, "It is the chromosomes, the tiny chromosomes that do that change."
Prabhupāda: That is their jugglery of words, these rascals. (laughter) "Chromosome, promosome." He will manufacture some word. But where is your chromosome of child body? What is that child body? Where it has gone? If you know, "chromosome, promosome," where has your child's body gone? That is the difficulty. These rascals, they do not know anything. Still, they are teachers and manufacture some jugglery of words. That's all. That is the difficulty. "Chromosome." What is that chromosome? What does it mean, chromosome?
Prajāpati: It is a tiny structure of organic matter that can constantly reproduce...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. When reproduce, the last body is gone.
Prajāpati: They say that the chromosomes that are transferred from father to son...
Prabhupāda: Still, the father's body is not the son's body. It is different body.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali Mardana: ...they will accept it as superior.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): Actually we can see that happening very practically. At Spiritual Sky many big, big businessmen they come, and they see how these boys are making money and yet they are singing and dancing all the time. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: This is practical. It's practical. Therefore in India we are considered as the richest community. They was a question in Parliament, "Wherefrom these Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they get their money?" And the Parliament would reply, Home Member, that "They get money by distributing literature." This is the reply. This is recorded in the Parliament, Indian Parliament.
Hṛdayānanda: Delhi.
Prabhupāda: So if you simply push on our literature, then our movement is going, you must know. It is really going forward. And there will be no scarcity. You'll get everything. (break) Our neighbors they inquire, is it not? That, "You are living so happily, where do you get money?"
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The storekeepers, they inquire. They're envious, that "How these people enjoying life without earning, without working hard?" Now whole Bombay is surprised when you purchased this land.
Bali Mardana: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I am the servant of the servant of." So you have to serve your immediate master, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the Supreme Lord. If you want to jump over the original master, that is not good. Then you will be dismissed like, like my friend.
Harikeśa: Associating with you is so wonderful, and yet...
Prabhupāda: Just like here in Vṛndāvana, I was here, as I am sitting here. I was sitting here in this very place. That was (indistinct). And when I was hungry I could take my food there, same place. So that is one thing. Just like there are many persons, but because my spiritual master wanted, so I, at seventy years old, when I thought, "Now I shall go," I went, to serve the order of my spiritual master. Otherwise I am sitting here in Vṛndāvana. I am old man, I was chanting. Therefore, because that is my first business.
Harikeśa: Were you just waiting to finish your books?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was just creating the situation how I shall serve my spiritual master.
Harikeśa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But the Māyāvādīs, they says there is no jīvātmā. The same thing, Paramātmā. That is not.
Dr. Patel: Those two birds are living on the same tree.
Prabhupāda: That is the difference. That is the difference. Paramātmā and jīvātmā, what is the difference? Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I... This is very practical, that I am the jīvātmā. I am living in this body. I know the business of my body, pains and pleasures, but I do not know what is the pains and pleasures of your body. You also do not know what is the pains and pleasures... Therefore we are individual. But Paramātmā, because He's there, He knows what is your pains and pleasure, what is my pains and pleasure. Not only you, but all living entities. That is Paramātmā. So those who are falsely claiming that "I am Paramātmā," this is the test: whether you are cognizant of everything?
Dr. Patel: Right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you cannot falsely claim that "I am Paramātmā," or "I am God." Whether you have got this all-pervading knowledge? This is the only test to the pretenders that he is God, he is Paramātmā.
Dr. Patel: But that is... They will say that kṣetra-jña, not kṣetra. Mahā-bhūtāny ahaṅkāro buddhir avyaktam eva...
Prabhupāda: Now he comes to the material elements.
Dr. Patel: Icchā dveṣaḥ sukhaṁ duḥkhaṁ...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is... That is...
Indian man (5): According to the work it is known.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even a man is born in the brāhmaṇa family, but if he is working as something else, so he should be... Practically also... Just like somebody is paṇḍita, brāhmaṇa, but if he is doing the work of an engineer or doctor, he is addressed as "Doctor Saheb." That is practical. "Doctor Saheb. Engineer Saheb." Not "Paṇḍitji."
Indian man (5): By birth he may be brāhmaṇa like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. By birth, there is no brāhmaṇa. By saṁskāra. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is...
Indian man (4): Birthright is not brāhmaṇa. No birthright.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Indian man (4): Provided he has got the particular saṁskāra. (Hindi) That is the beginning of it.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that is the beginning of saṁskāra. There is regular ceremony.
Indian man (5): But a very few people nowadays...
Prabhupāda: Still in Bengal, when the husband meets first the wife, there is saṁskāra. There is regular pūjā, patha. Then the husband and wife meet together. We had the same saṁskāra in our family. It was going on. When we were young man, it was going on.
Indian man (4): Semen ceremony.
Prabhupāda: The Americans and the Europeans, they are fed up with this material type of civilization. They are... They know that spiritual life is there in India. They understand it. Therefore, any swami goes there, they go round him to take some spiritual instruction. Unfortunately, mostly they go who have no knowledge. They cannot give them right knowledge. So for the time being they may surround them, but after some time they disperse. Because they do not get actually. Because so far Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, now many swamis went there and they preached Bhagavad-gītā also, but not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa for the last hundreds of years. But now Bhagavad-gītā is being presented as it is, and people are taking it by hundreds, thousands. So they are after some knowledge, spiritual knowledge, from India, but our so-called swamis, they go, they do not give actual information of the Indian spiritual culture. Therefore they are practically deceived. But this Bhagavad-gītā as it is, we do not change anything. In the Bhagavad-gītā you understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). So we are teaching them that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa." So they are accepting. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). So we are teaching that "Just always think of Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you will remember Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. "And just become devotee. Worship the Deity of Kṛṣṇa. Become His bhakta." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. "Worship Lord Kṛṣṇa." Māṁ namaskuru. "Offer your obeisances to Kṛṣṇa." So we are teaching this arcanam. We have got hundred temples like this all over the world. And hundreds and thousands are joining. So this is practical. So they are accepting. Now it is our duty to give the actual Vedic culture which is concise, summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvopaniṣad-gavaḥ, the essence of all Upaniṣad teaching. So there is very good demand for this culture, but unfortunately we give some rubbish things, and they come.
Prabhupāda: Why Los Angeles? Everywhere. In New York they are coming from hundred miles. From the other side of the island. First ferry steamer, then bus, then so on, so on. Three hours, four hours, they spend for transport.
Satsvarūpa: Is this an ideal solution or a practical one?
Prabhupāda: This is practical.
Satsvarūpa: Because sometimes we say that actually we cannot change the course of the...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Our society will be ideal by practical application.
Satsvarūpa: If we stopped all the transportation industry, there would be huge unemployment. It would be a great...
Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not going to stop employment. We live like this. You see. If you like, you live like us.
Bhagavān: Example.
Prabhupāda: Example.
Satsvarūpa: Not that we dictate to the... Not that we are going to force everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to force anyone. "Our mode of living is like this. If you like you can adopt." Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are not forcing anyone that "You also, you must chant." No. We live like this.
Dhanañjaya: So in fact, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should start using bullock carts.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, what you have done? You are simply talking. What you have done? There are so many starving people all over the world. What you have done? "Starving people." I have seen. They cannot give starving people. Just like we went to Russia. So we wanted rice. There is no rice. There was no good rice. We wanted fruit. There was no fruit. So what you have done? I am starving for fruit and rice. You cannot supply me. That is practical. I have seen it. They will offer, "Take this beef instead of fruit." Then I will starve. So what he has done for me? I am starving. I cannot take beef. I want rice, but you cannot supply me. That I have seen. One Madrasi gentleman was bringing rice for me. It could not be purchased in the market. There is no fruit. So if I want fruit and rice and if you give me beef, it is as good as if I want bread, if you give me stone. So where is the capacity to satisfy the starving? I am starving for rice. You cannot give me. Why do you propose like that, that you can satisfy the starving man. You cannot do that. You are talking nonsense. Can you satisfy everyone? Somebody is starving for knowledge. So how you can... This bluff will not satisfy him. So where is the question of starving, satisfying the starving? It is not possible. Unless he is satisfied, nobody can satisfy others. That satisfaction is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I am fully satisfied. I don't want." Where is the satisfaction? You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. In Russia, there are so many unsatisfied people, so many millions. Where they are satisfied? If you think that "You must eat what I give you," that is not my satisfaction. That is your satisfaction. So where is the question of satisfying the starving? How it is possible? You cannot force me to do something and say, "Be satisfied." That is not possible. If you satisfy me as I want, then you can satisfy me. Are they able to do this? Then where is the question of...?
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: We do not deny anything. We simply request, "Be civilized, Kṛṣṇa conscious." And this is practical; everyone is seeing this. We have got gṛhasthas, vānaprasthas, brahmacārī, sannyāsī. We have no such objection.
Yogeśvara: I can remember now. When I was in college, there were so many groups trying to reform the young people, the Y.M.C.A, the church groups, so many different social-working groups, trying to make young people become more, not so restless, not so much wild, but no, nothing. Couldn't do a thing. I remember I used to go to school when I was in college once a week to take care of one young boy because he was making so much trouble. They asked if some student from the university would come to see with him and talk with him once a week, to go out and go to the park and so on. So I used to see him, and he would be in school, and when I would come, all of the children would be the same way. I couldn't distinguish him from the others. They were all wild. And then they said, "Oh, he's the one, there."
Prabhupāda: Is there any other meeting?
Jyotirmayī: Yes. It will be later. It will be at six-fifteen, in forty-five minutes. The man coming, will be a psychiatrist.
Satsvarūpa: So we can take your leave until then.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda Hari-haribol. (devotees pay obeisances.)
Prabhupāda: Unless we understand that what is his aim of discussion, then how we can make progress? (Yogeśvara mentions something in French about Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna) No, why you are bringing Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna? First of all, let us know what is the aim of our discussion, the subject matter of discussion. (French for some time)
Jyotirmayī: His main point when he quotes Bhagavad-gītā is to show that it is a philosophy of action, it is dynamic, that Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna to fight. So there was a war. It is dynamics, not just sentiment, philosophy. It is active.
Yogeśvara: Yeah. Neti, neti. Getting rid of the bad elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practical, practical action. Yes. (French)
Yogeśvara: So he says, "Therefore we're coming back to our original point of discussion which is that real religion is not a question of a man's motives, but it's a question of his actions."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogeśvara: "What it motivates, what does a man do, how his religion is lived. That's a point."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are preaching. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not sitting idly and smoking gāñjā. It is not like that. (French)
Yogeśvara: So what he's saying is that, "Yes, in this connection, I can compliment you (Śrīla Prabhupāda) for the work that you are doing because," from what he has experienced, "most of the people who are coming from India to preach about Kṛṣṇa, talk about Kṛṣṇa to old people or people who actually don't have any use for Hinduism or spirituality except as a kind of diversion or a drug."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. Therefore the problem is where is my real life? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When one understands, the rascal, that "This is also illusion. This is also illusion. Then where is my actual life?" that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Haṁsadūta: I was hearing some statement about, from mediumship, of people who had died and they are living on a subtle platform, and they don't actually know that they have died. They are so absorbed that they mentally...
Prabhupāda: That is all... They may think like that, but this is practical thing. Try to understand that in daytime you are illusioned by this gross body, and at night you are illusioned by the subtle body. So both of them are illusion. Therefore if you are intelligent, your inquiry should be "What is my real life?" That is intelligence, "What I am?" That is... Sanātana Gosvāmī placed before... "What I am?" Ke āmi. That "I am simply hovering in illusion, gross and subtle. Then what is my real position? What I am?" That is real philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called Brahman. When I am Brahman", so that is the beginning: "What I am? What is my position?" That illusion is going on. So the material life means he is in illusion for millions and millions of years. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgya... So out of many such millions and millions living entities, one becomes conscious, that "What is my real life?" That is awakening. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya (CC Madhya 19.151). Then he begins his devotional life: "My real life is this."
Mādhavānanda: Then as soon as one begins to understand who he is, the transmigration stops.
Prabhupāda: Now, this question, that spirit develops the skin, you said?
Professor Durckheim: Spirit? You see I have very often... I saw the difference.
Haṁsadūta: The spirit becomes flesh.
Professor Durckheim: The spirit becomes flesh.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So this we can experience, that as soon as the spirit is entered into the womb of the mother, they develops skin and the child develops body. So this is very practical, that first of all, not that simply by sexual intercourse a child is born. Then every the time sexual intercourse would have caused pregnancy. No. Unless the spirit soul is there, there is no question of developing body. Therefore it is natural that the spirit soul creates this flesh and bone and other things and develops into body. There is no difficulty to understand.
Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, but I think the professor was asking how in our time in the case of a word, as far as spirit becoming flesh, not in the face of an ordinary child. I think I have understood your point?
Professor Durckheim: Yes, in principle. You see sometimes, it seems to me, I might be wrong, that there is one difference between Eastern wisdom and Christian way to think that whereas in the Eastern way, we have to become rid of our body, to be liberate from our body, whereas Christian sense means to realize the spirit within the body. (German)
Prabhupāda: Now, what is our suffering?
Prabhupāda: I think you missed that verse, jagato ahitāya. Anyway, these are the description of demonic activities. So this is practical. The last two disastrous war was waged only for this industry. This is the cause. German, they are actually in Europe very intelligent and their machine products and other things, they make very nice things. At least, I have got experience, German chemicals are first-class chemical. So they manufacture and British occupied the half of the world in their colonization, whole Africa, and they controlled India and China, Japan, yes, China, Burma, Ceylon, Australia. So these poor people, they manufactured. They have got goods enough; where to sell? As soon as they go to the British territories, "No, you cannot sell. If you want to sell, then hundred percent duty." So price increase. This was the grudge. Everyone knows. This is the cause of two wars. The jagato ahita. Now, why so much? You require a scissor? Go to a blacksmith and pay something. He'll make a scissor. "No. Produce millions of scissor." Then where is market, sir? This is going on. Produce millions of TV machine. Simple they are used for wasting time. One or two or five made for some important business. Now they are producing millions of sets. They must sell. And people are induced to purchase. And as soon as they purchase, they simply see television. Idol worship. And learning vicious things. Some unnecessary picture is produced there. They like to see it. Two train are coming and they are smashed. (laughs) I have seen some television. People are learning how to smash, how to steal, how to harass people. Things are being shown like that. Not that "You are soul. You are spirit soul. If you degrade yourself, you then get this." You make that television, that how transmigration of the soul is taking place.
Madhudviṣa: You have said in one of your tapes, "They want to start half way." Like they say, "All of a sudden there is an aeroplane, appeared in the sky." They do not trace out where that aeroplane is coming from. So similarly, they are interested in the problems of today, but they do not want to delve into the essential problem. They are talking about building nice houses, using this, that. They do not want to delve into...
Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No. That is not possible. Big, big brain, scientist, they are dealing. Similarly this big energy-creation, maintenance, and destruction of nature—that nature is called Durgā. Durgā. Duḥ. Duḥ means difficult, and gā means going or to understand. To understand the laws of material nature is very difficult. That is called Durgā. Or Durgā means... Durgā means this is like a fort. We are kept within this, and the superintendent is Durgā. Therefore Durgā's picture is ten hands, ten directions with different kinds of weapon protecting. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānu... (Bs. 5.44).
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Yogeśvara: (reads Purport in French. Prabhupāda asks people outside room to stop talking twice during reading)
Prabhupāda: So if we accept this process and advance in devotional service, then God will talk with us. He is with us, every one of us, and He is guiding us, but He gives directly guiding to the devotee. This is practical solution. If you become devotee, God will talk with you and give you direct instruction. Any question?
Yogeśvara (translating): This lady asks when one is too old and with too many responsibilities, what can one do?
Prabhupāda: There is no responsibilities, all false, māyā. Everyone is maintained by God. It is our false conception that "I am giving protection to anybody." That is false. Just like a man is diseased and we are giving help, medical help, first-class physician, first-class medicine, still he dies. So if God desires that this man must die now, your medical help or physician's help will not act. And if God desires that this man must live, then even without your medical help and physician, he will live. Then where is your responsibility?
Woman: Are you against medical help? I mean, you want just to let Kṛṣṇa do His way and not let the doctors help at all? I mean, don't go a doctor, just rely on Kṛṣṇa to help you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa will help you. It is Kṛṣṇa's help that will be counted, not your help or my help. Therefore, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, they said that "I am" is the name of God. So is it practical that if I ask your name, "What is your name?" "I am."
Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said that say, for example, suppose that his parents were crazy and gave him the name "I am"...
Prabhupāda: But there is no business in crazy. We have no business with crazy. (some people are laughing and some are talking) All right, what is the time now? We have no business with crazy. This is practical. This is practical. If in the court the judge inquires, "What is your name," and if you say, "I am," he will immediately say, "He is a crazy man. Get him out." (several people start talking at once) This kind of knowledge has got no value. No, no. If he does not like to accept Kṛṣṇa as the name of God, he has got his name, say, Jehovah or Allah. That is all right.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): They're saying it's not that they don't like Kṛṣṇa. They like Kṛṣṇa very much, but they are saying that everything is...
Prabhupāda: No, no, they must have some name of God. "I am" is not the name. That is false conception.
Guests (Hṛdayānanda): They say it's something very personal.
Prabhupāda: No. When you ask name, that is personal.
Lady: God?
Prabhupāda: God means controller. God is not name. Just like the president, Mr. Ford. That is name, and president is the controller. So every controller has got name. So why the supreme controller will not have any name? That is ignorance.
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She's saying that Christ said that "I am the way."
Prabhupāda: If sexual intercourse is the beginning of life, then why it is not always successful? We say that when the life, living entity, is there in the semina and it is put into the woman's womb, then body develops. Therefore, the beginning is the life. This is practical. And this life is the part and parcel of the supreme life. Therefore the beginning is God. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we have to establish this theory in this misguided world that... And besides that, why they cannot produce life from matter? What is the value of their statement? That they have not been able to do. Where is the proof that from matter life comes? You do it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Proof is under investigation. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming, there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. You know that? Vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. Sometimes we see some heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country? We have seen it. From the rice, heaps of rice, one scorpion, small scorpion, is coming. The fact is that the parent of the scorpion, they put their eggs within the rice and, being fermented, the scorpion comes out, not that from rice the scorpion is coming out. Therefore it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. So "Life is coming from matter"—this is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Life cannot come from matter. Besides that... Just like when there is life, living entity, the body grows, body changes or grows, as you say. But if the child is dead or come out dead, then the body does not grow. Then matter is growing on life. Why, a dead child born, it does not grow? What is the reason? What is your scientists' reason?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you contaminate some disease, then you must develop that disease. Similarly, if your mind is contaminated with some material designation, then you have to accept similar body, by nature's way. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). Because the mind associated with a particular type of the modes of material nature, he got this body. There are three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now you mix up. By first mixing it becomes nine, and again mixing up, it becomes eighty-one. And each quality, there are thousands and thousands of variety. And that means by mixing up these qualities there are 8,400,000 species of forms of life. So it is very... God's law, nature's law, they take account of the particular color and awards the body accordingly. It is not man-made law, that there may be some mistake. There is no mistake. If you have contaminated this disease, either smallpox or cholera or this or that, you must develop that disease. Therefore we should be desireless. Desireless means material desire. That material desire begins with the designation. That... The child, he has got a childish body, and he plays like a child. The same child, when he will get a youthful body, he will do like that. The soul is the same. But on account of different type of body he is acting differently. That is practical. A small child, in the childhood he will talk like nonsense. People will enjoy it. But the same child, when he is grown up and he talks like nonsense, people will call him nonsense, rascal. Why? The body has changed. The circumstance has changed. This is the real education, that we are changing body, and according to our bodily situation we are acting differently. That they do not understand. There is no school, college or education about the soul and the soul's changing different position of different body, and in this way he remains materially entangled. And the real relief is to get him out of this bodily concept of life and advance in spiritual concept of...
Paramahaṁsa: We have a saying in the West that curiosity killed the cat.
Prabhupāda: Another example as I gave, crying children, child, crying, crying, crying, crying. As soon as he is on the lap of his mother, immediately stops. Why? He can understand, "Now I have got the real thing." Other woman taking, he still continues crying. You have seen it? This is practical. But when the child comes to the lap of his own mother, he immediately stops. Mother also takes care, "My dear child, come." He sucks the breast and is satisfied.
Gaṇeśa: So one day the material scientist after many, many births will come to understand Vasudeva or Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gaṇeśa: They will become devotees.
Prabhupāda: But that is their foolishness. We, people, Kṛṣṇa conscious people say, "Here is your ultimate goal of this science. Take it." That they will not take. That is foolishness. They will come to the same point. But when you offer him, he will not take. That is less intelligent. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: You were saying that inquisitiveness is the...
Prabhupāda: Now, after taking instruction from Christ, first of all they killed Christ. That means they could not understand the instruction. Therefore their first business was to kill the instructor. And after that, two thousand years passed, still they are killing. So when they have accepted the teachings of Lord Christ? Can you answer this?
Carol: So you think the Christian faith hasn't been reflected in the behavior of Western people.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. You are maintaining huge slaughterhouses, regular killing. So, you took instruction from Christ, "Thou shall not kill." You first of all killed him, and then the killing process is going on among the animals, and declaring wars every now and then. So the killing business is going on regularly. In your regular life also. You are maintaining big, big slaughterhouses. Then when you accepted the instruction of Christ? That I want to know. What is that date?
Carol: Do you see any hope for the world? We seem to be moving towards destruction.
Prabhupāda: No, my... You just explain.
Amogha: He's asking you when did this civilization actually accept the teachings of Christ?
Carol: When have they? Not overall at all, only in small pockets. Never overall.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are claiming that you are Christian? Just like you are having cross. That is the sign that you killed Christ. The cross is the killing symbol of Christ.
Prabhupāda: So there, and I went there. The proprietor, the organizer, he took me there. So I think if we, if you are serious, let us combinedly open an institution where people should be trained up how to become first class. Children should be trained up. That will make a solution.
Director: Must change society then.
Prabhupāda: No, no change. Let society what it is. We train up some children as we are doing in Dallas, and some men also. Just like we have trained them. It is possible. No. This is practical example. Just like you were in a den, Morningstar.
Director: Have many of your gentlemen been delinquency in your life?
Madhudviṣa: Delinquency?
Director: Yeah. Have you been involved in troubles with the law before you joined?
Madhudviṣa: Oh, many of the devotees.
Director: Have you?
Madhudviṣa: Oh, yes.
Director: You've been in trouble some, have you?
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Devotee: We have one boy here who spent nine months in a penitentiary.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. We can stop. Just like they have become saintly person. Everyone... India they are surprised that "How you have made these Europeans, Americans like this?" They are surprised. Because in India the brāhmaṇas and others, they were under impression that "These Western people, they are hopeless. They cannot be any advanced religionist or spiritual." So when they see we have got many temples in India, that they are worshiping Deity and managing everything, chanting, dancing, they are surprised. Many swamis came before me, but they could not transform. But it is not I who have transformed, but the method is so nice that they became transformed.
Director: But people will say a very small percentage of the population.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: "Please accept me." The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don't mind, I don't find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?
Prabhupāda: Indian society, the did not know how to drink tea even. In our childhood we have seen that Britishers started tea garden. There was no tea plants before Britishers. The Britishers saw the labor is very cheap, and they want to do business, they started. Just like they are doing in Africa. So many gardens, coffee and tea. So they started, and the tea was transferred to be sold in America. They were after business. So the... Now, so much tea, who will consume? The government started a tea sets committee. All the tea garden holders they would pay government. And road to road, street to street, their business was canvassing, preparing tea, very nice, palatable tea, and they advertising if you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry, and your malaria will go away and so on, so on. And people began to drink tea. Nice cup. I have seen it. Now they have got a taste. Now gradually now a sweeper also, early in the morning, is waiting in the tea shop to get a cup of tea.
Tea was taken in our childhood if somebody is coughing, sometimes they used to tea. That was also later. But it was unknown. Drinking tea, drinking wine, smoking, meat-eating—these things were unknown. Prostitution. There was prostitution. Not that everyone is prostitute. Very strict. So these things should be taken care of—at least a class of men must be ideal for people others will see. And the training should go on, just like we are doing. We are inviting people to come to chant with us, to dance with us, take prasādam. And gradually they are becoming. The same (?) addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat-eating, he is becoming saintly person. This is practical, you can see, what was their previous history and what they are now.
Prabhupāda: So we are giving this chance to everyone, devotee Bhāgavata and grantha-Bhāgavata, to get them raised from the lower condition of life. Kāma-lobha, lusty desires or greediness. This is the process. And practically you can see all these young men. They have no more lusty desires or greediness. They are also young men. They never ask permission from me any time, "Now, today, I want to go to the cinema." They have got all the monies in their hand. They never misspend without my permission. They are also young men, born in the western countries, addicted to so many bad habits. But they have given up. This is practical. Professor Judah has written me letter. You know him?
Dr. John Mize: No, I do not.
Prabhupāda: That "I am simply amazed how you have converted drug-addicted hippies to become servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." That is his puzzling. But the method is so nice that it automatically becomes. Therefore we are stressing on the method.
Dharmādhyakṣa: In other words, Śrīla Prabhupāda, without practice of the method, it's very difficult to understand the philosophical concepts.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Therefore it is said that without becoming a brāhmaṇa, nobody should touch Vedas. That is a... Without becoming brāhmaṇa...
Prabhupāda: Mind is... I will meditate on my office work. When I close my eye I shall sleep. I have seen it. Big... (makes snoring noise) (laughter) I have seen it, old ladies meditating. This is not practical. Meditation is described in Vedic..., dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ: (SB 12.13.1) mind is fully absorbed in God, and he is seeing the Supreme Lord within his heart. That is meditation, not snoring. That is not meditation. Impractical. But if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately you can join, immediately, "Oh." Even the child will join. So this is practical. And that is recommended,
- kalau doṣa-nidhe rājan
- asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
- kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya
- mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
- (SB 12.3.51)
That is recommended by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, that "I have described so many faults of this age of Kali, but there is one very biggest gain." What is that? "That simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa one becomes free from all material bondage." This is the special advantage of this age.
Dr. Wolfe: Could it be called the true yoga of our time?
Prabhupāda: ...self-independent, or self dependent.
Bhāgavata: If we build up enough trade, tourist trade, like that in the guesthouse, then Māyāpur can maintain itself very easily.
Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...of the modern civilization, they are thinking that having such nice house, nice motorcar, nice road, nice machine, nice dress, nice woman, they will be happy. This is advancement of civilization. What is this? Don't drink, don't smoke, no meat, simply denying, denying? This is civilization. They think "This is practical. And after death who is going to take care?" Bhasmī-bhutasya dehasya kutaḥ punar-āgamano bhavet: "When the body is finished, burning into ashes, who is coming, and who is responsible?" This is atheistic civilization. (break) ...artha-maninaḥ. External energy, that is everything. Within the body there is the soul. They deny it. There is no soul, body is everything, and enjoy bodily enjoyment. That's all. And our philosophy immediately condemns that "Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13); he is animal." So this is a park?
Indian man: A small park.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a lot of parks of this type.
Prabhupāda: ...India Gate?
Tejas: India Gate is this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Oh. You have to go this side or this side?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Brahmānanda: That's a saying, that if someone is feeling misery, he wants other people to also enjoy the misery.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: No one wants to suffer alone.
Prabhupāda: Cutting the tail of the jackal. (Bengali) "My tail is cut, so your tail must be cut." This is a fashion. (pause) That is practical. The world is working so hard but where is the peace and happiness?
Brahmānanda: It's coming.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) When it will come? That is unknown.
Brahmānanda: Maybe at the end of this century.
Prabhupāda: And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy. You'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see.
Indian man (1): It is evident that miseries are growing darker and darker.
Prabhupāda: That must be because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result. Karmana daiva-netrena (SB 3.31.1). There is superior power to supervise how you are working.
Prabhupāda: It is not religion. First of all forget religion. I am talking of science. That a boy is becoming young man and young man is becoming old man, this is science. What do you think, Principal? It is science or religion? Does it mean that only the Hindus become old men and the Christians do not?
Prof. Olivier: Yes... My problem as a simple layman is how to make God relevant to the issues of the day. But since God's relevancy can only be related to the permanent, the problem becomes even more complicated. But I have to deal with practical situations. Everybody in a university...
Prabhupāda: This is practical situation, that...
Prof. Olivier: Yes, I would agree. It is one of the neglected avenues of learning that we have not been able scientifically, I think...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my point. That is my point.
Prof. Olivier: This is the point that he's trying to make, that we have not been able to absorb into scientific studies those spiritual components which go up to make the whole of man. And I would agree. I think it's one of the great shortcomings in our modern educational system, that we... Not that we do not accept this. I think basically, as an intrastructure, we accept this. But it's like a house. When you look at all the superstructures you do not inquire too deeply about the foundations of that superstructure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (chuckles)
Prof. Olivier: And now your point is that the time has come for society and the world to find out if there are cracks in the superstructure. Whether these cracks are just superficial cracks or whether they are caused by foundational cracks or shifts in the corners of the foundational structure. And I, like you, I believe that this is not entirely a question of... Well, it's certainly not a question of whether it's Hinduism or Christian or Islam.
Prabhupāda: Incubator. Put it there. Then we shall accept your science. Why don’t you do that? Then your all theories are useless. This is practical.
Harikeśa: It seems much more practical to make a computer than to make an egg. I mean, a computer…
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, do it. And from that egg, you get chicken. Then I shall accept that you are scientist. Otherwise you are rascal, talking all madman's proposal. Do it. Ask them. Write in the paper that "Prabhupāda was speaking like that, a challenge to the scientist: "Is there any scientist who can make an egg which is put in the incubator and gradually it comes to become …""
Harikeśa: They will think we are completely crazy.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Well, then kick on their face, on their nose, rascal. We are crazy or you are crazy?
Harikeśa: But who wants to make eggs?
Prabhupāda: Huh? No, no, it is an experiment. You say life comes from chemical. So by chemical combination make an egg and do it. Begin from this. Then we shall see others. This is very easy. If you have already analyzed the yellow portion of the egg, the white portion of the egg and that outer plastering can be done. Nowadays there is… What is called?
Harikeśa: Plastic.
Prabhupāda: All rogues and thieves.
Harikeśa: So actually it is not possible to change the...
Prabhupāda: Change—if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Harikeśa: But the system itself is defective. How can...
Prabhupāda: No, the defective will be correct when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like in your past life you had so many defects. Now it is corrected. That is practical.
Harikeśa: Let's say somebody is a minister...
Prabhupāda: Anybody.
Harikeśa: ...but his occupation is cheating.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him become Kṛṣṇa conscious. He will stop this cheating business.
Harikeśa: But he has to stop.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Rājarṣi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has to stop. It will be stopped as soon as he becomes a devotee.
Harikeśa: So then gradually it will become the varṇāśrama, with the one central head.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So how earth is coming from Kṛṣṇa? Tell me that.
Devotee (3): The scientists say that this earth came from gases, but they cannot explain exactly where those gases have come from. That source, that is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, they do not know, but we know. How in your belly gas is formed? How? There was no gas, but automatically the gas is formed. And therefore sometimes, if it is much gas, then you go for treatment. So this is the practical. The gas is also generating from my body. So as I am an individual, insignificant body, if there is possibility of generating little gas, so Kṛṣṇa's gigantic body, why not gigantic volume of gas? This is the explanation.
Jñāna: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. So we understand if it's energy there must be an energetic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, but Kṛṣṇa's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great, I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. Why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, so huge, I mean to say, volume of water, gas, and everything as we see it is coming? So therefore Kṛṣṇa is correct. He's correct, but for our understanding we can understand like this, chemicals, the chemicals coming from our body. There are so many salt. And you test the blood or the perspiration.
Harikeśa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.
Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.
Harikeśa: But that's assuming that God has a body, or there even is a God.
Prabhupāda: Huh? But that is... You are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president. You'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has not body. But why he has no body? śāstra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda, Brahmā is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body.
Harikeśa: But we don't know, so we're taking the known and speculating on that...
Jñāna: It's not produced out of nothing.
Prabhupāda: Not without drinking? No. That's not fact.
Brahmānanda: Actually they say the body is made out of water.
Prabhupāda: "They say. They say." You don't drink water, and when you give me massage why do you perspire? You did not drink water. This is practical.
Brahmānanda: But formerly I had drunk water.
Prabhupāda: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water; therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is... You can create water from your body. What is there? You are a doctor. What is your...? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions. They are coming within the body. So everything is there. By God's supreme energy they are being automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). God has got multi-energies. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is the description. He hasn't got to do anything. Just like so many things are being manufactured within my body. I haven't got to directly work for it. So similarly, the God's gigantic... Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him.
Prabhupāda: No, no. One thing, example, that dead body. Now, when the spirit is gone, now can you take care of the dead body?
Dr. Patel: It rots.
Prabhupāda: So long the spirit is there, it is all right. And as soon as the spirit is gone, it is simply lump of matter.
6: No, if you misuse it...
Prabhupāda: No, no. First... This is practical. You see the importance of the body is so long, as long as there is the spirit. So if you take spiritual care, the bodily care is automatically done. Just like we are. Are we not taking bodily care? But our main business is spiritual care.
Dr. Patel: But people are starving for twenty-four, I mean forty-eight days. You cannot starve for two days because you have got weakness of the mind. Mind and soul should be one and the body... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...transcend the bodily and mental platform. Then you come to the spiritual platform.
Prabhupāda: This is cycle. Perform yajña and everything will come. They have stopped yajña... Therefore hari-nāma-yajña, this is the yajña.
Dr. Patel: Viṣṇu... Viṣṇur vai yajñaḥ. Viṣṇu Himself is yajña.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): (break) ...saying that it is because of our chanting twenty-four hours a day that there is more rain this year.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In Hyderabad they also say. For six or seven years there was no rain. Now it is raining. This is practical. (break) ...yanti bhūtāni.
Devotee in distance: Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: Who is that? Old man?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) (break) ...has died. His grandson is maintaining.
Dr. Patel: (break) ...yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ. Not for sense gratification. Then you will suffer. But they are all working for sense gratification, not yajñārthe. Yajnārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9).
Dr. Patel: Tad arthaṁ karma kaunteya mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no, far away from the city.
Sudāmā: Oh, yes, yes. Takal, outside of Tokyo, we had our temple.
Prabhupāda: So there were hotels?
Sudāmā: Yes. Yes. One bird restaurant.
Prabhupāda: Yes, bird. They are coming from fifty miles to eat there. So eating is so strong. If you prepare nice foodstuff and the flavor goes to hundred miles away, then they will automatically come. This is practical. Only for satisfaction of the tongue, there were special buses bringing them, and they were coming, full load of bus, to eat that jungle birds.
Devotee (2): Jungle birds. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. The birds are available in the city, the fowls and cocks, but they wanted to eat the jungle birds. Just like there are men. They get sex pleasure at home; still, they go to the prostitutes. Very beautiful wife, but he goes to the prostitute. Taste is such bad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like Ajāmila. Ajāmila.
Prabhupāda: Not developed. But you cannot say there is no soul. Sometimes they say foolishly that the animal, there is no soul. That is foolishness. Everywhere there is soul. It is not developed. So just like a child is as good as animal, but you cannot say in the child there is no soul. The consciousness is not developed. You can say like that. Similarly, there are 8,400,000 species of forms. They are different on account of different development of consciousness. A tree, there is consciousness, but it is very, very covered. If you cut the tree, it does not protest, because the consciousness is not developed. I have seen in children surgical operation. They do not require anesthetics. I remember. My eldest daughter, when she was child, she had some boil here. So the doctor wanted to operate. So I asked him that "Apply anesthetic or do something." "No, no, they don't require." And so the doctor cut the boil, and the child simply, "Ehhh, ehhh," no crying. I have seen it when they did.... No crying. Because the consciousness is not developed. Now, what do you mean by...? When you are unconscious, if your head is cut off, you do not understand. That is practical if by medicinal process you are made into unconsciousness, chloroform anesthetic, so that you don't feel. This is practical. So unless the consciousness is developed, one's soul's full-fledged function does not develop. So this is a chance in the human form of body that the consciousness should be developed. Therefore we are presenting these books. They can understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the process. You are drinking water, and "Oh, how Kṛṣṇa, God, is so glorified. I was so much thirsty, and just drinking this water, this is quenching my thirst." This is glorification.
Guest (2): I like that. That's good. I like that.
Prabhupāda: So that is the difference. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means know how to glorify God, not theoretical-practical. Here is practically example. Everyone drinks water, and while drinking water he can glorify thousand times. That we are teaching. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. As soon as you see sunlight, "Oh, we are suffering for want of sunlight. Here is God's glory. He has sent the sunlight." This is practical. So one must know how to glorify God practically. Then his life is successful. God is always glorious. There is no doubt about it. But for us, how to glorify God.... Similarly, when we worship the Deity, here is God. Just offer Him flower. Just offer Him dress. That is love.
Guest (2): Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Every item, there is practical.
Guest (2): We think that also to glorify God is to obey His...
Prabhupāda: You think but you see also practically that how these people are practically doing.
Prabhupāda: Ah. That proves that you are a rascal number one. These are not important things. Why do you keep memory of so many dead men in statues? It is not important thing. He has died, died. That's all.
Devotee (1): They say that being able to work on all of our practical problems in the material world...
Prabhupāda: And this is practical. You make something that nobody will die.
Devotee (1): But a lot of them already admit that there's nothing we can do about death.
Prabhupāda: Then don't call yourself scientist. The problems are there. You cannot solve them. (break) ...intelligent way of defeating so-called scientists. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You are asking us to make solution...
Prabhupāda: That is my problem. If anyone can solve this problem, I will call him scientist. That is everyone's problem. The artists, they are trying to remain young, especially the ladies. And still, the scientist cannot stop this, that "No more becoming old, old." Then where is your improvement? You have invented some cosmetic. You apply it, and your, what is called, hollow cheek will be swollen up.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in London recently, just like they have plastic grass, they have plastic trees, they have a plastic woman.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but the plastic woman will not satisfy me.
Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body. (break)
Pradyumna: ...when someone is sleeping and dreaming, that the seer has left the gross body?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Bharadvāja: How does the.... Life symptoms, how are the life symptoms maintained in the body?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bharadvāja: The life symptoms are maintained in the body still?
Prabhupāda: No. Ahh.... I...
Reporter: Well the Vedic scriptures say that.
Rāmeśvara: Yes, the Vedic scriptures...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: ...something different.
Prabhupāda: The thing is, that is practical. That scientifics statement given today, and after few days it is changed.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then if I say "What is the value of such statement if you change it?" That is my point. And so far Vedic injunctions are there, you don't change. What was given millions of years ago, that we carry.
Reporter: Thank you very much.
Rāmeśvara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Ah, thank you. This is the disease. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, he is bewildered, vimūḍhātmā, on account of false egotism. Just like we are inviting everyone: Please come and learn Bhagavad-gītā. "Huh! Bhagavad-gītā, let us go the sea and swim." Surfer, surfer? They are taking so much trouble. I have not see here; in Hawaii. For hours together, struggling with waves. I've seen it South Africa also. Very fond of this surf sporting. So they are wasting so much time and laboring so hard just to become fish. Yes, they are going to be fish. Because at the time of death they'll think of "How I am jumping in the water, surfing." That is natural. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Because he has constantly thought over his sporting, naturally he'll think of sporting in the water. So this gross body when finished, his mental, intellectual and false ego will carry him to become a fish, and he'll have full freedom how fish is jumping within the water, going against the waves. A small fish can go against the waves. There is a Hindi poetry that a small fish can go against the big waves, whereas a big elephant is washed away. This is practical. Bahiya jāya(?) gajarāja. Gajarāja means, gaja means elephant. In big waves, if you put an elephant, he'll be washed away. But a small fish, he'll go against the waves. He's expert. This example is given that the fish, although he's very small, he's off the water. He's under the water. Therefore he's so powerful. He can go against the waves. That means āśraya.
Prabhupāda: There is.
Dr. Wolfe: They try to do this scientifically again.
Prabhupāda: Let them do. Scientifically, there is life after death. That we repeatedly say, that my child's body is dead, it's gone, vanished. I have got a different body. So after death there is life. This is practical. So this Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So similarly, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is authoritative statement of God, and practically we see that we get one body after another, but I continue. So where is the objection? So there is life after death. So-called death means annihilation of the body. So if we can stick to that life, that there is no more death, then that is to be sought after. That is intelligence. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, that if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa and you become fit to go back to Him, then no more death.
Dr. Wolfe: These people who are investigating into this, into the problem of life after death, are basing their observations on dying people. And there are three or four authors now, especially one woman who is a specialist in the field of dying. She is convinced, firmly convinced, that there is life after death. Her name is Kubler-Ross, and she has written several books on the subject.
Prabhupāda: Where she is, English? English woman?
Dr. Wolfe: She is American, German-American.
Prabhupāda: Oh, she is here in America.
Prabhupāda: It is knowledge. Just like we are moving with this body, but still we know perfectly well that we are not this body. Just like you may move in your car, but you are perfectly aware that you are not the car. When you drive on your car, do you not know that you are not the car, car is different from you? Huh? Don't you know that? Similarly, by cultivation of knowledge one can remain in the car and still he can know that he is not the car. The example is given, just like coconut. Coconut, within the shell, green shell, there is coconut. And when it is dry, if you move you'll understand that the coconut is now separate-(makes sound:) cut-cut-cut-cut—at that time it is taken away for extracting oil. So this is practical. In the beginning, green coconut. And when you can perceive that there is coconut within the shell and it can be separated, but at a time it can be known that the coconut is separated from the shell. And if you move it, it will make-cut-cut-cut. That is the process. It is by action. When after hearing theoretical, that you are separate from this body, if you cultivate that knowledge, then time will come when you'll perceive practically that we are not this body. That means in higher stage of spiritual consciousness the bodily activities, material bodily activities will stop. Only Kṛṣṇa activities will go on. So that, just like the coconut fruit is separate from the shell, similarly, even living within this body, he will be separated from the body. Jīvan mukta sa ucyate. The Sanskrit word is he's liberated even in this life while living in this body. That requires cultivation of the knowledge and practical activities. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not all of a sudden, but there is stage when it will be experienced that he is not this body, he is separate from the body.
Prabhupāda: No, it is also practical. We do not propose anything which is impractical.
Jackie Vaughn: But it's so...
Prabhupāda: What do you think in our movement is impractical? I have given you a practical example that you are paying so much money to the suffering women, especially who have got children but no husband. So, but what is the result? They're not satisfied. They're still committing sinful activities. So the money, giving money, we're giving, is no solution. That is practical. And here, the same girl, I do not give her any money, but by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they're satisfied. It is practical. So therefore people should be enlightened with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise, even you give him some money, that money will be spent and no satisfaction. This is failure. Our monetary problem.... Actually, we have no monetary problem. Kṛṣṇa has given us money. Our expenditure is more than, I think, two hundred thousand dollars daily. Hm? What is our total expenditure, can anyone say?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, with all the constructions, perhaps it's very high.
Prabhupāda: But we are getting money. We have no money, but still we can sit down in such a nice palace. This is practical. So money is not problem. The problem is godlessness. So as soon as there is godlessness, there will be suffering, different types of suffering. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
Prabhupāda: Why not? He's the most beautiful. Otherwise, why people are attracted? There is a verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā: kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham (Bs. 5.30); barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. He has got one peacock feather on His head and He's blackish, but wonderfully beautiful. These words are used. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya. He's so beautiful that thousands of Cupids cannot be compared with His beauty. Cupid is understood to be the most beautiful person within this universe. You know Cupid? Yes. He enchants by beauty. But Kṛṣṇa's beauty is so great that millions of beauty, kandarpa or Cupid, cannot be compared with Him. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.30). It is a question of attraction. It is not a question of black and white. Attraction. So unless Kṛṣṇa is beautiful, why He has got so many millions of devotees? This very word is kandarpa-koṭi. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. His blackness is compared with the black cloud. Asita-ambuda, ambuda means the cloud. The black cloud is full of water. When there is black cloud in the sky, you can be sure that the rain is going to fall down. Not the white cloud. White cloud means no water. Is it not? So you understand this philosophy and add water to the suffering humanity. They are suffering in the burning, blazing fire of material existence. So blazing fire can be extinguished when the water falls from the sky, not by your fire brigade. When there is blazing fire in the forest, it is beyond your control. You cannot get there fire brigade. So these small attempts of fire brigade is useless to extinguish the blazing fire of this material existence. The water must come from the cloud. That is by Kṛṣṇa's grace. You have no control over the cloud. But that water wanted. Not your fire brigade water when there is all around blazing fire. The small fire brigade-(imitates bell) dung-dung-dung-dung-dung. It can vibrate very loudly-dung-dung-dung—"I'm going to, going to," but they'll go when everything finished. That is practical. I have seen in India. There was a fire in a house, and they came late, when the business is finished. And still they're insisting, "We shall pour some water." (laughter) Everyone asked them, that "What is the use of?"
Prabhupāda: He wanted to become student.
Hari-śauri: (laughs) He was becoming very enthusiastic. He was very enlivened. Anyone with a little intelligence, as soon as you begin to speak to them, they, immediately, they become so much enlivened. He's obviously, he's had some idea about organization and whatever, but he's never seen it practiced. And now he's come here and seen it practical.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practical training. That is wanted. Simply theoretical knowledge.... That is helpful, but training, that is the greatest need, that we have to create a set of first-class men. Then the world will be all right. That is an attempt of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to make first class, ideal. Why they'll be attracted? They are seeing that "The priests are doing the same thing as we are doing." So how they will be attracted? Therefore Christianity is failing. They are also having the meat, illicit sex, drunkard, and they're priest.
Hari-śauri: They've watered down so much, there's no value left to what they're doing. They're exactly the same as a man in the street, except he says he believes in God and the man on the street says he doesn't believe. And they have no ability to convince a man that God exists. They have no scientific knowledge or whatever.
Prabhupāda: Simply by the position: "I am Cardinal," "I am Pope," "I am priest," "I am that." How long it will go on?
Hari-śauri: It's not going on very much longer anyway, there's so many, it's falling apart. There's so many branches, just the fact that there's so many divisions now of Christianity, that this man was speaking about this charismatic movement. Now this is the young people. They're feeling a need for God, so they're trying to express it through another concocted form of Christianity. But that will also be a failure.
Prabhupāda: But they publicized in India that they have made all, everyone In India they were doing like that. "Vivekananda Road," "Vivekananda Square," and rascals, they do not inquire even what is Vivekananda's contribution. Pradulika(?) prabhāva.
Hari-śauri: You made a good point about why although now thousands of American boys and girls are coming to India, no one is going to the Ramakrishna Mission, so what kind of impact has he had?
Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana they have got hospital and Ramakrishna temple. Who is going there? This is practical example. In our temple, thousands and thousands of foreign boys and girls are coming, and who is going there? It is because actually, if they did something, they should at least gone there out of inquisitiveness: "Oh, where is Vivekananda?" Nobody going. Not even to pass urine there. (laughter) (break)
Kīrtanānanda: That Japanese tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: And Hichai is, this is called Hichai? That is "hitchhike," and this is Hitch-hi.
Hari-śauri: Hitachi.
Prabhupāda: Hitachi, yes. This is a church?
Kīrtanānanda: No, this is an institution, state institution for old people or mental home. I forget. "Western State School." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Hayagrīva.
Kīrtanānanda: I think he's in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Pratihatā means suppose you are destined to suffer. So apratihatā means in spite of your so-called suffering, the suffering will be reduced or there will be no suffering. But in spite of suffering, you can make progress in spiritual life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja himself, his father was putting him in so many suffering conditions but it was not impeded. He was making progress. He was making progress. He didn't care for father'sputting him into so many suffering. That is called apratihatā. If you want to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness, your material condition of life cannot check it. That is the progress (?) (indistinct). But so far material condition, that cannot be checked. You have to suffer. But in case of devotee that suffering also, can be stopped. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa's version is false: ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. Suffering is there on account of my sinful activities but Kṛṣṇa says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. Make it clear. Ordinarily destiny cannot be checked. Therefore instead of wasting your time for change your economic condition or material destiny, you employ this energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That cannot be checked. Your so-called... So many men we can see, they are working so hard, does it mean that everyone has become a Ford, a Rockefeller? Why? Everyone is trying his best. Mr. Ford was to become rich man, his destiny was there, he became rich man. But does it mean that other man who has worked so hard like Ford, he has become like a Ford? No. This is practical. You cannot change your destiny simply by working hard like ass (?) and dogs. No. But you can utilize your energy for improving your Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So he has said already that "I do not find any other means to pacify me, and You are the only..." The purport is that Arjuna is accepting Kṛṣṇa as guru to instruct him how to get relief from the perplexed position. So in this sense the real guru is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is guru. Not only for Arjuna, for everyone. So if we take instruction from Kṛṣṇa and abide by that order, instruction, then our life is successful. That is our mission. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means accept Kṛṣṇa as guru. We don't say... Don't divert your attention. We don't say that "I am Kṛṣṇa." We never say that. We simply ask people that "You abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and we say that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Give up all other ideas of so-called dharma or religiosity." The same thing. But we don't say that you or me, "I am the authority." No, we don't say that. We say, "Kṛṣṇa is the authority, and you try to understand Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Therefore the question is guru. So here, from the behavior of Arjuna, we see that guru is necessary. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa as friend, but Arjuna saw that "This is, there is no good talking like this. We can continue talking.... Because we are equal status. Kṛṣṇa is my friend. I am also His friend. So He's answering, I am giving something. If this talking will go on, there will be no fruit." Therefore he said, "Now, Kṛṣṇa, I am becoming Your disciple." Disciple means there is no argument. Whatever the guru will say, you have to accept. That is disciple. That is final. There is no argument. So Arjuna put him into that position that "I cease to talk with You on equal level of friends. Now I accept You as guru." Therefore the guru is necessary, undoubtedly, because every one of us in perplexed position. But who is guru? Guru means Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. And all others are bogus. If one does not say on the standard of Kṛṣṇa, then he's not guru. He's a bogus. In that way everyone can become guru. I have got some opinion, I can say. But unless.... Just like a lawyer is he who follows the standard law. If a lawyer says that "I have manufactured my own laws," so who will hear him? And what will be the use of becoming lawyer? No. You have to follow the standard law. Then you are a lawyer. And a big lawyer means who knows the standard laws very well. Similarly, guru is Kṛṣṇa and guru is necessary. But one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then he will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Kṛṣṇa is not present. But Kṛṣṇa is not present, how you can say? Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā. How you can say that.... Kṛṣṇa, absolute, means the Supreme Lord is not different from His words also. The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing, if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical. Anyone can perceive. So Kṛṣṇa's present by His words, by His representative. Why don't you take? You have to take guru. Why do you go to the pseudo guru who will mislead you? Why don't you take to the real guru? That is your mistake. Therefore you are now disappointed. Now you are in doubt whether guru is needed. Yes, guru is needed, but you go to the real guru. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just find out this verse.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Barbers?
Prabhupāda: Burma.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the most...
Prabhupāda: And when you fry luci, all the other tenants will come "What you are cooking?" This is practical because we opened..., my Guru Mahārāja opened a branch in Burma in an apartment. So that Gaurāṅga who was my servant in family life, he was there. He said like this, that "When I fry puri, the ghee smell is there, so many people will come from other apartments, (whispers) "Oh, what you are cooking? What you are cooking?" And the naphi, they relish it in feast. So it is a question of taste.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the ultimate.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I remember as a child in Hong Kong, in the village they would keep big glass jars of snakes, they would put the snakes in jars. And after they were many times soaking in liquid, then they would eat it.
Hari-śauri: Pickled snakes.
Prabhupāda: Snakes.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, keep it in a jar in liquid.
Prabhupāda: They put in the jar alive?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: No, they catch it, kill it, put it in the jar.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the other day we spoke that... Now in Vṛndāvana, you know we have got our temple. So the Ramakrishna Mission, they have got their temple also. In our temple, thousands and thousands of these Americans came, and not a single one went here. If they had preached anything, then why these American boys and girls are not interested, "Let us see where the Ramakrishna Mission stays." They do not know even. There are many present here who went to Vṛndāvana, and none of them were interested to see. Why? lf there was any propaganda... This is practical proof. Why none of them were interested, "Oh, here is also Ramakrishna Mandir, let us go here"? Nobody. Is it practical?
Guest: Yes, of course. Of course, even in India I don't think Vivekananda is that popular.
Dr. Sukla: Within one period, people who probably just had no good books to read, and they got some of his writings. I know my father brought some books and...
Prabhupāda: So where is your home?
Dr. Sukla: It's in Benares, Kāśī. So there were some books by Vivekananda, and he is emotionally against Vivekananda, so that's a little too much perhaps. So he brought those books so that I can read them, I was curious. And he said, "When you are through, give it to your cook." (laughter) That's the only functional use of those books.
Prabhupāda: For burning it in the fire?
Dr. Sukla: Yes, he said so that we can make our capatis, to have some use of those things. And Kṛṣṇa, of course, there's hardly a village in India where, whether knowingly or unknowingly, people are not aware what is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: In India they know, everyone. They observe Janmāṣṭamī.
Prabhupāda: Harry, Harrison, like that.
Devotee (1): They are saying Kṛṣṇa's name.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read more? "There are several hundred thousand members of the movement, several hundred thousand members of the movement throughout the world. Ten thousand in New York City alone." Actually, there are at least ten thousand followers. "Of these, about a hundred and fifty are full-time students and live at 340 West Fifty-fifth Street, an eleven-story former Josephine Baird Home of the Roman Catholic Carmelite Nuns." This was a nunnery. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa center on West Fifty-fifth Street draws about five hundred lay devotees and curiosity-seekers from the metropolitan area every Sunday. Open house begins at five p.m. A great drawing card is the serving of prasādam, food specially prepared for and offered to Lord Kṛṣṇa before being distributed to the public. The eating of prasādam, (see the article, "Food of the Gods" on a later page), is believed by members of the movement to convey important spiritual benefits—for example, the cleansing of karma due to past sins. Movement members are not unaware of the more immediate and mundane effect. 'Prasādam is our secret weapon,' said Alaṅkāra dāsa, spokesman for the center. 'It gets them in here, and then they can get the message.' Les Tursley, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami, India-based senior member of the movement, has said of prasādam in his country..."
Rādhāvallabha: They think you're an Indian.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think I'm an Indian. " 'If anyone comes around to our prasādam distribution program, that means he is hungry. If he is hungry, that means he cannot listen to our philosophy. If his hunger is not satisfied, he'll never become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the point. If we just went around with a program of speaking and kīrtana, they would come once or twice but they wouldn't see its practical value. But if you give them prasādam daily with kīrtana and speaking, eventually you can convince them. Look, this is our most practical way of life.
Prabhupāda: Vittam eva, that's it. Vittam eva?
Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ
Prabhupāda: Ah. Vittam means money. So if you have got money, then you are coming from high family. There is no consideration of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. If you have got money, then you are everything. Vittam eva hi?
Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, from qualification point of view, they are not learned, educated in university, nor they have got any spiritual assets, born brāhmaṇa family, nothing. Simply money. We also go and flatter them to get some money (laughs). So this is Kali-yuga. Vittam eva. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore people are after, so much after money. Vittam eva, hmm? Read that?
Prabhupāda: Only the material body is subject to destruction.
Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."
Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating? Then the body must be given some rest, sleeping, for which we require some apartment, some place. Not we, but also even the animals, birds, they have got their nest, or the animal has got some hole or something.
Prabhupāda: No, the physical senses are to be spiritualized. You cannot appreciate God by physical senses. But when your physical senses are purified and it is spiritualized, then you can...
Ali: That's exactly what I meant when I said that whatever we see...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is process, how to... Just like iron rod, it is iron rod, but if you put into the process, that means if you put into the fire, a time will come the iron rod will be red hot and it is fire. Similarly, if you engage your physical senses only—(aside:) here is candle—when you engage your physical senses in the service of the Lord, then the physical quality of the senses will be diminished or gone, your spiritual sense activities will begin. This is practical.
Ali: Are we closer to this practicality when we sleep?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are practiced. Sleep means what you do when you are awakened, the same thing you'll dream, that's all. Physical, I've told you there are two phases of senses. Gross and subtle. When the gross senses are not working, the subtle senses work. Just like you dream, your mind is working. Although your hands and legs are taking rest, but mind is working. That is dreaming. So there are two phases of physical senses, gross and subtle. When the gross senses are stopped, the subtle senses continue to work. And when you are above even subtle senses, that is spiritual. Sometimes we misunderstand subtle senses are spiritual. No. Spiritual senses are different from the subtle stages.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He was Christian.
Prabhupāda: Christian. So why the Christian go and, go to the father, "Give us our daily bread"? That means that you are dependent on father. How you can say independent?
Hari-śauri: But that's the point, that we have to grow up and become dependent on our own work.
Prabhupāda: No, the Vedic injunction is eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. God means He's supplying the necessities of all his sons. That is God. And that is practical. You are dependent. The animals, they are dependent on grass. So wherefrom the grass is coming? Why that land is deserted and this land is green place. Can you change it? Why you don't change the desert to be green? So if you think that "I'm living on animal, I don't care for grass," but the animal depending on grass, and the grass is depending on God's mercy. So how you can say you are not dependent on God? You are dependent. But because you are a rascal fraud, you want to cheat and become a Freud, that's all. You are a great fraud, therefore you're talking like that. You are dependent on God in every step. You cannot be independent. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra, find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: So to some extent they have got some affection for Kṛṣṇa but not to that extent. They, there maybe one man may seeing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes.
Yaśomatīnandana: I think generally people are more attracted to our society by the behavior of devotees rather than philosophy, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Philosophy is there but generally when they see the devotees, and by association, purification comes. As you say, there are so many books about... If the movie is made, just like our Hare Kṛṣṇa People movie, this is showing the practical example of how one can live Kṛṣṇa consciously and solve all the problems of the day-to-day life. Such a movie can attract people to become devotees.
Guest (1): For the students it is good idea.
Yaśomatīnandana: For everyone. I mean...
Prabhupāda: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.
Guest (1): They will misinterpret the whole thing. They will misrepresent, the danger is still more there. It is rather more with the educated people that the danger is there than the uneducated. But to reach the uneducated we have, I was thinking this is a better media. This is one of the medias perhaps, I wouldn't say better. Perhaps one of the medias by which we can reach them in a larger crowd.
Jayapatākā: Yes. So I'll tell them our policy is changed. We don't keep any more money in fixed deposit because it's a losing bargain?
Prabhupāda: That's it. Actually it is losing. Actually it is losing. Every day the price... Just like the price of rice has increased.
Jayapatākā: It is up and down.
Prabhupāda: Up and down, now... Take it. When it goes up it does not come down, generally. So this is practical example. Two months ago you were purchasing two rupees—now two-eighty. So where is the value of the money?
Gargamuni: If we invest in books... Just like this little pamphlet I printed. It cost me fifty paisa. If we sell it in one month...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Then we will get fifty paisa profit. We will double our investment.
Prabhupāda: That was nicely... That was nicely printed. So in this way invest our books or land. We don't want to keep cash.
Jayapatākā: And if they want to keep branch or not, that is up to them. We can't give them any money. If they want to keep branch or not, that's up to them.
Prabhupāda: That should be up to them. If they keep branch we can take that. They'll go on.
Gargamuni: We will tell them frankly that for us to invest in books is more profitable because after one month we get more.
Prabhupāda: We cannot keep money and without any... They will give interest. What is that interest? And he said we have printed fifty paisa and selling hundred paisa. So that much interest they cannot give. They'll give, utmost, ten percent. Ten percent per annum—not even one percent in a month.
Prabhupāda: He has got seventy standing orders. Our books are, say eighty. So eighty books, say, average five dollars. So eighty books, five dollars means...
Prabhaviṣṇu: Four hundred dollars.
Prabhupāda: Four hundred dollars. Such seventy orders. He has secured order in one month, seventy orders. In one place. Standing orders. "Whatever is published give us, and then others, when they will be published, send also." They have not seen even the books.
Indian man: This is practical pracāra, giving books.
Prabhupāda: No librarian, no university, no scholar, no professor is refusing. As soon as we go, "Oh, yes, bring. We shall take." So I am bringing money from the foreign countries by my selling books, and they are criticizing me that I am C.I.A. Just see the fun. And there is nobody to give me protection.
Indian man: Not Lord giving protection? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, Lord, giving, giving. That I am confident. Because they are envious, "How Bhaktivedanta Swami is getting so much money? He's paying crores and crores. There must be some political..." As they are getting from Russia. But actually, I am selling. I am working night, writing these books, and these boys are helping me to sell it. I am getting enough money to spend it. What is my fault? For Kṛṣṇa's sake we have sacrificed everything, our life and everything and Kṛṣṇa is giving us money and we are spending it and they are criticizing in the Parliament. This is my misfortune. I don't take it as misfortune. Because asuras are always there. Even Kṛṣṇa's time.
Prabhupāda: Latest?
Krishna Modi: Latest. Also I heard that this Channa Reddy, Governor of the U.P.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one of our Gurukula children.
Prabhupāda: Let us cooperate. You'll see how I can change the face of India.
Krishna Modi: Let us train some members also.
Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.
Krishna Modi: Ah, what is politics?
Hari-śauri: Caraṇāravindam.
Prabhupāda: Caraṇāravindam. That the Englishmen were ruling over us. Now here is English boy, he's giving me massage and fanning me. What is the reason? Unless he feels something obligation, that "He has given us Kṛṣṇa," what business he has got? Not for him, for all of you, to give so valuable free service, unless there is this sense. What do you think? You have no obligation. You are European, American. I am Indian. It is through this via media Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is God. Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. Because they have got sense that "We have got God," therefore they are feeling so much obliged. Kṛṣṇa is God, there is no doubt about it. It is not yet ready?
Hari-śauri: They're making a plate now.
Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara is there?
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So we shall follow strictly. Here is God. Take. Because if you are serious after God, here is God, take Kṛṣṇa. This is our philosophy. Hm? What is the answer? If he's serious about God. I think this paper wrote that, that Village? "We thought God is dead."
Hari-śauri: Greenwich Village.
Prabhupāda: East Village? That paper? Long ago.
Harikeśa: Village Voice. The Village Voice.
Prabhupāda: ...Sannyāsī should go on preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching. Practically, I was sitting here in Vṛndāvana, in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. So at the age of seventy years, nobody goes out. At least from Vṛndāvana nobody goes at the age of seventy years. But Kṛṣṇa asked me. I thought that I must go, Guru Mahārāja wanted it, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Let me try. So if I had not gone then this institution would not have developed. So this is practical. Mahataḥ nirvicaraṇam.(?) Mahātmā, they must move. So when there is absolute necessity they may stay. Otherwise, they must move. Move on, move on, move on, move on, move on. No staying. That is principle. No staying. I am this old age, I cannot move... My... I... So many... Still I am traveling all over the world. I am simply interested that whatever I have done, it may not be vanquished in my absence. Let me go and encourage them. Otherwise, I have no capacity to move now. But still I am moving. Only for this purpose. Girinaṁ grhna-cetasam.(?) So a sannyāsī must move. A sannyāsī must not stay anywhere more than three days. That is the principle. So he was moving, but his moving is creating disturbances here. Therefore I have stopped. And besides that, a temple is nirguṇa. A sannyāsī is forbidden to stay anywhere else, but in a temple he can stay for more than three days provided there is business. Otherwise, there is no necessity. So this is the exclusion(?).
Prabhupāda: When you will come to preach something. You take it from me.
Īśvara Candra: Last one and a half year I'm trying for something in Mathurā but I'm...
Prabhupāda: You are trying in your own way. But Kṛṣṇa does not like that program. You can manufacture your something, idea, but Kṛṣṇa will allow or not. I tell you. This is practical. You are a qualified man, foreign educated man, and you have come back for the last one and a half years, still you are in nothing. It is surprising. That means Kṛṣṇa does not want you to do that something. You take it from me. These boys have come because they found, outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness, life is nothing. That's a fact. Therefore they are sticking to this. They knew it very well. That outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness the whole world was vacant, "Nothing for us." That is a fact. Therefore they have got something here. They are not foolish rascals, they're sticking for nothing. There is something. It's a fact. So for nothing, "Oh, we have suffered." And come to something. If you want. That's Prāṇava, he is trying for something. He has come also to Vṛndāvana more than one year or two. Huh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Two, three years.
Harikeśa: More than that. Three and a half years.
Prabhupāda: Not indifference. They are... You see, there is a remark of a politician. There is no indifference. They are appreciating that it is spreading like epidemic. There is no question of indifference. But the leaders, they appreciate. Some of the fathers of my disciples, they come to offer their thanks, "Swamiji, it is a great fortune for us that you have come to our country." They say like that. They appreciate that their sons were going to be hippies. Now they are devotees, God conscious. So any sane man will never object to this. The priests also, they say that "These boys are our boys..." In Boston, one priest said. "And they never cared to come to the church or inquire about God. And now these boys are mad after God." Not only that, practically, in many places we have purchased churches and converted into temples. So we see these churches were sold because nobody was coming. But since this movement is there, the same church is there and the same persons are there. You will find always it is crowded. This is practical. I have not imported men from India to fill up the temples. Their men and their church, but the philosophy is different. It is filled up.
Interviewer: Can you give us the number how many temples are there in foreign countries?
Prabhupāda: I have established 102 temples. Small and big. Out of them, very big temples are in Los Angeles, in London, in Hawaii, Honolulu, in Detroit... And...
Haṁsadūta: New York, Chicago.
Prabhupāda: New York, Chicago.
Hari-śauri: Toronto.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you first of all learn Sanskrit, then you (indistinct). If there is (indistinct). This practice should be stopped. If you want to preach Bhagavad-gītā, and if you want to preach your own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā, don't do this preaching. You preach your philosophy, your (indistinct). You can preach any philosophy you like, but don't take Bhagavad-gītā and (indistinct) on it. (?) That is my (indistinct). That is being done. That is being done. So therefore, instead of studying, collecting so many literatures, why not take Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach? And as evidence to prove he is (indistinct) ...all over the world. Before me for 200 years there was preaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Not a single person became... It is the history of (indistinct). Now you see thousands. Why? Because there is no interpretation. There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are presenting, "Here is God." You are searching after God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are accepting. They do not (indistinct), what is Kṛṣṇa. What is this? How they are accepting? Because it is the real thing, there is no interpretation. They are not Hindus, they are not born in India. How they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? They have given up bad habits, no illicit sex. Because you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless you are free from all sinful activities. Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's it. Now, when there is opportunity, condemn them like anything. It is opportunity to expose them.
Hari-śauri: We should do that, expose them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? When they are attacking, you must attack.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Attack them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very practical: "Yes, Kṛṣṇa enjoyed sex. But where is abortion? Where is contraceptive pill?"
Hari-śauri: Actually, by practical example we can show that by following Kṛṣṇa, so many people are giving up intoxication, giving up so many sinful activities. But by following your Christian religion, it's not done them any good whatsoever. It's not changed their lives whatsoever. This man, he described our movement as very dangerous. On the radio he said, "This is dangerous," because we're trying to establish Kṛṣṇa as God and He's not stated in the Bible, and therefore we are very dangerous.
Prabhupāda: Christ is described as son of God, but where is the father? That means you are so rascal, you do not care to understand the father. And we are presenting the father, the father of Christ. And you are condemning. You do not know who is the father of Christ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it." This is also called another logic, nyāya, bakāṇḍa-nyāya. You have seen bakāṇḍa-nyāya? Baka and aṇḍa. One bull is going and his testicle hanging, and another duck, he is thinking, "It is a fish. It will drop, and I shall take it." This is practical. This is psych... You'll see a bull is going on and testicle hanging, and another duck is going after him. From this baka the word baka has come. Sometimes we say baka. This bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rascals also argue that... The materialists argue that we're being cheated.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialists' argument is that we are being cheated by being promised something imaginary.
Prabhupāda: We are not discussing that, but you are cheating—that is practical. You are cheating. Your government is cheating, giving a piece of paper, cheating me that "You get hundred rupees."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And their cheating in so many... Just like they were paying ninety rupees for a vasectomy, to make someone impotent, to make them sterile, they're giving ninety rupees. They're saying "This ninety rupees is worth... It's worth it to become sterile if you take this ninety rupees."
Prabhupāda: That is paper.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, that's cheating. A man can produce a son. A son has got real value in so many ways, but instead they'll give that paper worth...
Prabhupāda: Cheated with ninety rupees, and he's no more...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the foreigners bought the island of Manhattan for twenty-four dollars from the Indians, the native Indians in New York, twenty-four dollars' worth of trinkets. And they purchased.
Prabhupāda: No, the land was there. Just like Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura purchased Māyāpur at eight annas a bighā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now...
Prabhupāda: That is... Rarely they found. Therefore they appreciate. One may comment on scholarship. That is jñāna. And devotion without scholarship-sentiment. Just see. They're both combined. Perfect knowledge. That is wanted. That is my Guru Mahārāja's... He used to say, "Philosophy without religion is dry speculation, and religion without philosophy is sentiment."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, you wrote this in your purport in Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: That should be confirmed(?). Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. Don't accept it blindly. We have not accepted Caitanya cult blindly. This is practical. The purpose was to separate from India to become happy. Where is the happiness?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Civil strife.
Prabhupāda: And that is real happiness?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Not they are. And this was the British plan: "So they are driving away? All right, make such arrangement. They'll perpetually remain unhappy."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They knew they were losing, so they thought, "Let everyone lose along with us. No one shall..."
Prabhupāda: That is natural. "If you become my enemy, I shall be your enemy." That is everywhere. Material world means that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was shocked to see that the mangoes... Did you see the price that they're being sold for? They are now selling in the market here for one hundred rupees a dozen.
Rāmeśvara: I'm simply your servant, by your grace, Prabhupāda. This Chapter One of this second volume, "Kaṁsa Sends Akrūra for Kṛṣṇa." "Vṛndāvana was..." (break)
Prabhupāda: As soon as this Indira Gandhi and her son disturbed Vṛndāvana people, within a week... Just see. This is practical. The poor, these bābājīs, they were going to beg, and by force, once, twice, injection. So immediately, after one week...
Rāmeśvara: For sterilization?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is practically... And I was surprised how such a abominable falldown came to Indira Gandhi. It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. No politician fallen in such a way in the history. Finished business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). It is simply Kṛṣṇa's hand. They are "This party, that party, that..." But to curb down Indira's power, it was simply by Kṛṣṇa directly. Hm. Go on reading. (break) "Don't worry. I am here." This is Kṛṣṇa. A boy, ten years boy, Kṛṣṇa, He was, "Come on," challenging. This is Kṛṣṇa. Go on.
Rāmeśvara: "He then appeared before Ariṣṭāsura." (break)
Prabhupāda: And He went forward still. Still there are demons amongst the (indistinct).
Rāmeśvara: "I will arrange to get those two boys here." (break)
Prabhupāda: The same bhakti-yoga. This is practical.
Jayapatākā: Now there's another group.
Yaśodānandana: Jaya oṁ viṣṇupāda paramahaṁsa parivrājakācārya aṣṭottara-śata śrī-śrīmad... (break)
Prabhupāda: They do not know. They'll not pay. All dry flowers they'll supply you and take American money. He'll not pay. Anyway, satisfy yourself. So it is raining?
Hari-śauri: It's beginning to. (break)
Prabhupāda: Where is Bhavānanda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is at the fire sacrifice.
Prabhupāda: Fire sacrifice not yet finished?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then when it will be finished?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Usually after they put on their dhoti, then the fire sacrifice begins.
Prabhupāda: You are doing business. (Bengali conversation) Why you should remain in that flat with two, three rooms? That ambition is not there. That endeavor is not there. (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda started with forty rupees.
Prabhupāda: I went to... You know. So in what way I went? With a tin box and some literature. And how I have come back? You rascal, you have no eyes to see. You have seen how I went and how I came back. This is practical. I worked for this. I labored for it. It all depends on one's capacity. Otherwise immediately I'll give you charge. You cannot do here anything. So you'll get this letter. That's assurance. (Bengali) Keep it as document. That's all. I'll stamp it. All right, I shall meet again with you. Give him that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda takes his massage now. (break)
Prabhupāda: I have heard that still he is keeping, "I am devotee of Kṛṣṇa," still, in this fallen condition. How (indistinct). Take this. (break) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. It is great ocean of such glory. Tad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says, "Now it is again possible for us to think, to act. Our senses have regained their consciousness, enabling us to expand the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by selling more..." (break) He says, "We pray that your health may continue for years to come so you may conquer the whole world by your pure devotion and you may continue to bless us more and more so that we may be instrumental in this work. I am your puppet. You are controlling the strings. Make me dance as you like. I am simply awaiting the tugs of your lotuslike hands upon my strings. I would like to make a report of the activities here. Eastern Europe..." (break)
| Page Title: | This is practical (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | MadhuGopaldas, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 12 of Apr, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=91, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 91 |