Thief (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"thief" |"thief's" |"thiefing" |"thiefs" |"thievery" |"thieves" |"thieving"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: In Sanskrit it is called (pid?) vastra, backside robe. So under the backside robe He kept one pot of condensed milk by stealing. So the pūjārī woke up and opened the door and actually saw that there was a pot of condensed milk. The priests were very much astonished that "Oh, He has stolen (laughs) kṣīra for His devotee." So the order was that "You take this pot and give to Madhavendra Purī. He is sitting underneath a tree." So they, with the pot of the condensed milk, they began to cry, "Oh, who is that Madhavendra Purī? Oh, you are so fortunate. The Deity has stolen condensed milk for you. Take it." So he came forward and he was so pleased that Lord has stolen. "Because I desired to taste so Lord has stolen one pot." So in this way. From that day He became famous, the thief of condensed milk, Kṣīra-corā. Kṣīra means condensed milk and corā means thief. So the temple became famous as the temple of the thief of condensed milk.

Hayagrīva: Caitanya, the condensed milk thief.

Prabhupāda: No. Oh, you did not hear. Caitanya, after seeing the Deity, He was sitting and seeing and meantime Nityānanda Prabhu narrated the story how His name became Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. You did not follow me?

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...pare dhana parke diye nija labha cora: "I borrowed something from you, and I lend him. He does not pay me, and I become thief."

Janārdana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) So... "I borrow from you and I lend him. He does not pay me and I become thief." Pare dhana parke diya nija labha cora. So that means this is warning: "One should not do like that. One should not take responsibility for a person where there is no connection." (break) Everywhere the principle of self-interest is there. (break) That is there.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Janārdana: 15,000 square feet. It is a fortified place because they keep furs. They keep animal furs there, and animal furs are very expensive, and thieves very often break in. So I think that one of the reasons why it's so expensive is because it's fortified.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow. What is that?

Janārdana: It is a place... (break) ...of animals, and they are very expensive furs.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very expensive.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Kṛṣṇa, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess. Suppose I am possessing all this. As soon as I go from this body, all possession will remain here.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. It may be understood that he was Śeṣa, but that was the incident. And another incident is that when He was just walking... So it is the system that small children, they are decorated with ornaments here, here, bangle, so many ornaments, here. So one thief saw that... He stole away the child. So he was seeking some secret place, lonely place, so that he can rob of... In this way seeking, seeking, he traveled, and at last he came just in front of the house, and he dropped the child, that "Somebody may see that I have taken this child. Then I'll be beaten, I will be caught." So out of fear he fled away. And the guardians, ladies, they were very much anxious, "Who has taken the child? He was with ornaments." But they saw that the child is there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enjoyed for some time on the shoulder of the thief.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Were they liberated souls? The thief?

Prabhupāda: At least, after Caitanya Mahāprabhu's getting on their shoulders, (laughs) they must have been liberated. No flower? Bring some flower.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would sometimes eat clay?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was when He was about three years old. So generally, for morning the children given nice sandeṣa, sweetmeat, and this puffed rice in a cane pot and He would eat. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu was eating clay. So His mother said, "Oh, why You are eating clay?" Then He said, "What is the difference between clay and this foodstuff? After all, everything is clay. It is produced from clay." This is criticizing the Māyāvādī philosophy that everything is one.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 6, 1971, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the pāpīs, then there will be no more existence because everybody is pāpī. If you take sword and kill the pāpīs, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing the pāpa-bīja. Pāpa-bīja means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to śāstra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also. But still he does stealing.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: That means these philosophers are called fools and rascal, less intelligent. Would you like this advice, that you have got a big building, just like in London there is a big building, and he has got a policy anyway that he does not allow any tenant. Largest building in London, to save tax. But his point is different. In Bengali there is adage that (Bengali), that a man's utensils were stolen by a thief, so he became very angry, that "A thief has taken all my utensil. All right, I shall not purchase utensil. I shall take food on the floor. I shall take food on the floor. No more utensils. I shall not keep plates and utensils any more. I shall take food on the floor." This is philosophy. (break) We don't believe in so-called nonviolence, nonattachment, zero. No.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then a thief is feeling that "I must steal to provide my children. It is right." Does it mean that he's honest? Everyone thinks... The butcher, he thinks, "It is my life. I must cut throat of the animals daily." Just like that, what is that, vyādha, vyādha... When Nārada Muni met him?

Devotee: Oh, Mṛgāri.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Mṛgāri. "Why you are killing in this way?" "Oh, it is my business. My father taught it." So he was honestly doing that. So feeling of honesty depends on different culture. A thief's culture is different. He thinks stealing is honesty.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But the man who is thinking that he's not stealing, he's also a thief. Because he does not know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore whatever he's accepting, he's stealing.

Bob: Is he less of a thief?

Prabhupāda: You may not know that I am the proprietor of this wrapper, but if you take it away, are you not steal?

Bob: But, maybe it isn't... If I know it is yours and I take it I'm a worse thief than if I do not know whose it is and I just think it may be nobody's and I take it.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just like a gang of thieves gives a signboard, "Goodman and Company." A gang of thieves are giving signboard, "Goodman and Company." You sometimes find such signboard.

Śyāmasundara: Our landlord in San Francisco temple, his name was Goodman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their philosophy is that the animal, when it is not properly nourished that is cruelty. Therefore instead of allowing to starve, better kill him. Like that, theory. Is it not?

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom this stealing propensity comes if it is not in God? But because He is absolute, His stealing is also as good as his blessing. Mākhan-cora. Kṛṣṇa is stealing butter, that is worshiped, mākhana, by the very name. Just like in another temple, Kṣīra-cora-gopīnātha. Gopīnātha is known as condensed milk thief, Kṣīra-cora. He is famous by the name cora, thief. But that cora and this cora, you cannot compare. He is famous as cora, or thief, but thousands of people go every day to worship that cora, that thief. And in the material, if one is known as thief, then thousands of people will beat him with shoes. (laughter) That is the difference. If you say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa was a thief, then I can become a thief," then your will be beating of shoes on your head, and Kṛṣṇa will be eternally worshiped because He is thief. That is the difference.

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is Absolute. He will be worshiped as thief, and He will be worshiped as very honest. That is Absolute. (aside:) No, no, this (indistinct) is not good. I will take little fruit.

Kṛṣṇa is a woman-hunter. That is the highest pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, rāsa-līlā. But here if a man becomes woman-hunter, he will be most abominable person. That is the mistake of the people: they consider Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11). They are rascals, fools, mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam. This sense has to be learned-Kṛṣṇa, how He is Absolute in all circumstance. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, "Just go and tell little lie to Droṇācārya."

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Similarly in Bombay also, they made one or two flyovers with great endeavor, and one flyover collapsed. That flyover between that Princesses Street and the Marine(?) Drive, yes, collapsed. Because all the contractors are thieves. Instead of giving cement, they are giving clay.

Śyāmasundara: Now their plan is to tunnel through under Malabar Hill and make a freeway along the..., the West Shore Expressway along Warden Road and Nipensi(?) Road.

Prabhupāda: Freeway.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, and they began the tunnel when we first came there a year-and-a-half ago, and now I don't think it's more than fifty yards into the mountain.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Teachings of Christ, teaching of Buddha, they are meant for a particular type of men. Generally it is meant for everyone, but specifically for a particular type of men. Just like Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā. They were a particular type of men. Lord Jesus Christ also preached to a particular type of men. "Thou shall not kill." That means they were killing. Is it not? If I say, "Thou shall not steal," that means you are thief, you are stealing. So a kind of preaching among the thieves and a kind of teaching among the philosophers must be different. That is the difference.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you'll find difference of Lord Jesus Christ teaching, Buddha's teaching, Kṛṣṇa's teaching. Kṛṣṇa's teaching also is there, which is also Buddha's teaching. But more than that, because the persons amongst whom He was teaching, they were far, far elevated than the thieves and the rogues. That is the difference. Just like I am pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, I am doing so many things which sometimes my Godbrothers out of envy criticize. But I know what is the circumstances how to do it. They do not know it. I know my business. So that is their fault. Their own buddhi business, then simply criticize "How he is acting." Find out some fault. Just like Lord Buddha was criticized by the Vedic brāhmaṇas, "Oh, you are stopping animal sacrifice? It is already in the Vedas.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Very dangerous.

Ātreya Ṛṣi(?): They are all thieves, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Thieves, stealing from each other.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They don't want to see people very enlightened. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." But at least how to become wise, that injunction has been given to you. Now you try to save the country, how to do it. These people will not be. You'll have to educate the people, and they'll vote you to the senators, president, and then your country will be nice.

Room Conversation -- August 1, 1972, London:

Devotee (2): He didn't come. He was a little embarrassed, I think.

Prabhupāda: He must be embarrassed. He's a thief. (laughter) Desirous man never becomes happy. He did not pay me anything as royalty for the record.

Devotee: Hm.

Devotee (2): He's still selling it, too.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): He's still selling that record.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Must be selling and taking advantage of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then? What is this? As soon as there is law, it must be considered that somebody made the law.

Karandhara: It's just a thief's mentality.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: If a thief comes on something valuable, he does not think who owns this. He simply thinks how he'll steal it.

Prabhupāda: That is thief's business.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they are all thieves.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So how we, a sane man can trust a thief? A sane man cannot trust a thief. There are so many things. They could not produce even a grass, even a small plant in the biology, chemistry laboratory, and still they're claiming it is product of biology, chemistry. What is this nonsenses. What kind of scientists there are?

Locana: We couldn't even choose when we were born.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Locana: We couldn't even choose being born here.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Nature? That means you have taken from somebody. You have not created. You have stolen. Thief you are. And we say: "Yes, you have taken from the nature, but every property of nature, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Īśāvāsyam, it is all God's creation. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yes... If one does not perform yajña, he's a thief. Yajña means acknowledging that things have been taken from Kṛṣṇa. And we must satisfy Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, You have given so many things for our maintenance." This much acknowledgement Kṛṣṇa wants. That's all. Otherwise, what He can expect from you? What you are in His presence? Prasāda. Prasāda means acknowledging:

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But there is none complete. Except Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's complete. Our pro, philosophy is that we have to select if we... That we must have to. Otherwise, there is no life. Just like you scientists, you quote so many leaders, scientific leaders. Without this, there is no life. So... Just like in the Bengali there is a proverb that if I to, if I have to steal and become a thief, why not plunder the government treasury? Why pickpocketing? If I have to be punished as criminal, as thief, let me plunder the government treasury and then let me go to jail. So this is our policy. So if we have to submit to somebody, why not the best and perfect? That is our philosophy. You cannot avoid submission. That is not possible.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Idle brain is a devils' workshop. Because they have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, their brain is a workshop of the devil. That's all. Harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (pause) And without culture men are becoming rogues and thieves, uncultured. Communist movement. Atheistic... Everywhere, nobody's happy. The government's duty, first duty should be that everyone is happy. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, during the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Even there was no natural disturbances. No excessive heat, no excessive cold. No anxiety. People are dying now out of anxieties. They're becoming mad, committing suicide, drinking liquors more and more. Just for anxiety. When they cannot solve any big problem, "Bring bottle." Is it not?

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday's Bhāgavata lecture, the example that the hundred dollar bill, one hundred dollar bill. So if somebody picks up and takes it, he's a thief, and if somebody who just does not care...

Prabhupāda: Does not take it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he's also not good. And the one who takes up and says, "Whose coin is this?" Then he's good.

Prabhupāda: Yes, his service is better.

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: "Yes, I am giving you this chemical composition. You drop on the enemies' camp." This is scientific research, to impel the rascals. (laughter) The rascals, rogues, they are trying to usurp other's property, and the scientists helping them. That's all. If you help one murderer, if you help one thief, then you also become criminal. Is it not? So they are helping one another, all these thieves and rogues. Therefore there is so much trouble in the world. They are all criminals. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). One who does not recognize the proprietorship of the Lord, he is a thief. Find out, take statistics how many people recognizes God. Take statistic. Everyone will say, "Eh! What is God, nonsense." Everyone will say. Therefore they are in trouble. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura summarizes this fact: māyār bośe, jāccho bhese, Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi, jīv kṛṣṇa-dās, e biśwās, korle to ār duḥkho nāi.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: Even though the desire exists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a thief, he knows that "If I steal, I will be arrested. I will be put into jail." And he has seen that one thief, he has stolen, he is arrested. Still he commits theft. He knows everything. Why does he commit theft?

Paramahaṁsa: Why?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Ignorance?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Corpse, yes. You require everything, full body. You require head, you require arms, you require belly, you require legs. But if you have got simply the belly and legs, then it is a dead body. It cannot work properly. The brain is lost; therefore they are mad after so much advancement of civilization. They are exactly like cats and dogs. As soon as you enter some country, dog, watchdog: "Wowf! Wowf! Why you have come? What is your position?" ("Where is your visa?"?) This is dog's business. This is dog's business. (laughter) And they have set up immigration department. But it is a dog's business, watchdog. I say it is watchdog's business. A first-class gentleman is being searched out pocket, whether you have got revolver. Cannot be trusted, all these educated rogues and thieves. So what is this advancement of civilization? It is civilization? No sober man, no intelligent man, all cats and dogs, thieves, rogues. Is that civilization? It is not civilization.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Suppose just like I tell you that a dog is your servant. It is standing on the door. Some thief is coming. If the dog becomes angry, "Baw! Gaw! Gow!" so that, to become angry is not bad for the dog...

Father Tanner: No.

Prabhupāda: ...because he's serving the master. So similarly, if you are fixed-up in your business as servant of the Lord, so even if you become angry for Lord's service, that is not bad.

Father Tanner: But you..., the dog might bite his master.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is there, described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The, the governmental power will go to the rascals and thieves, rogues. And their only business will be how to exploit the people. So one side, by not sufficient rain, there will be scarcity of foodstuff, and one side, the government will tax like anything. In this way, people will be so much harassed that they will give up their hearth and home and go to the forest.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So if you bring bhakti, karma-miśra-bhakti, that is called karma-yoga. Similarly, you are addicted to speculation, jñāna. When you bring bhakti and mix with it, then it is jñāna-miśra-bhakti or jñāna-yoga. So, this things are there. Just like karma-yoga. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). This is karma-yoga. You are doing something, everyone is engaged to do something, but Kṛṣṇa says yat karoṣi, never mind, even if you are a thief. Your business is stealing-steal. Yat karoṣi means that includes everything. Yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi, yat tapasyasi, kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam. "Give it to Me. The result, give it to Me." Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.

Prabhupāda: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?

Umāpati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So...

Yaśomatīnandana: A sincere atheist...

Umāpati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." If the leaders, the priests and the executive heads are all rascal rogues, thieves, and within suspicion, then how there can be, I mean to say, peace in the world? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement,... War was declared against Arjuna because he's, he was sinful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa declared war, "You must kill them. You must kill them, Arjuna." Arjuna was declined, "Oh, let them go. They are my brothers." "No, you must kill them. Don't talk nonsense." That is Kṛṣṇa's idea. That is Bhagavad-gītā. The whole Bhagavad-gītā was spoken just to induce Arjuna to kill the godless, the sinful. That is Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is foolishness. Just like a child is playing whole day, and if you ask, "Go to school," "I don't care for future life." It is, it is just like that. It is just like that. How the guardians can tolerate that, that this rascal is going to be a fool-number-one if he's not educated? So we are guardians. We are representatives of Kṛṣṇa. We cannot see this. The rascal may say like that, but we cannot tolerate this. This is our proposition. We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property."

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be impious Christian or pious Christian. Christian must be pious. If somebody's impious, then he's not Christian. (break) ...impious thief cannot be. Thief is always impious. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). (break)

Prajāpati: ...trusting in God. And then, when they realize they are not, then we can show them how to trust in God.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "You do not know. You come to us and learn how to trust, how to know. And if you speak lies that you do not know what is God that is a different thing. Then you should be punished." People should be given chance of believing, trusting in God. They have declared. So it is their duty. The state duty is to see how people are trusting. That is state's duty. Constitution says that nobody can steal. Is it not state's duty that people are not becoming thieves and stealing? Is it not the duty of the state? Similarly, if you, if you have accepted this that "In God we trust," you must see that everyone trusts in God. And that is scientifically. Not sentimentally. It is the duty of the state to see.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotee: For some time, for some time.

Prabhupāda: For sometimes every thief flourishes. That is another thing. But he must be punished.

Devotee: Hmm. He was punished.

Prabhupāda: You can cheat for some time everyone, but you cannot be allowed to cheat everyone for all the time. That is not possible. (break) ...law. Therefore Lord Rāmacandra could create millions of Sītā. So the purpose was to kill this atheist. Therefore, it was... (end)

Room Conversation with Latin Professor -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, when one is God conscious, if he kills animal, that means he has no sense of God consciousness. He has no sense of God. That is the test. So our propaganda is that you make people God conscious. Then all good qualities will come. Instead of trying to qualify man in so many ways—"You don't become thief, you don't become murderer, you don't become this, don't become this, don't become intoxicant"—simply by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, he becomes everything, by one stroke. That is our propaganda, that if one becomes God conscious, then he is becoming perfect, not necessarily, materially and spiritually, both. And that is happening practically. Now these boys, these girls, they are Europeans, Americans.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They're United Nation, first of all let us settle. They are fighting: "I'm Arabian," "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Englishman..." "All right, let us settle actually to whom this planet belongs." They cannot do that, because all of them are thieves. None of them will agree that it belongs to God. The real fact, that they will not agree. Then how there can be peace? Because they're all cheaters. They want to cheat God. God's property, they're claiming "ours." All thieves and rogues, so how there can be any settlement? There cannot be any settlement.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is our propaganda, that "This is the standard of leadership. So if you elect first-class leader, then your government will be first-class. But if you elect some rogues and thieves, drunkards, then how you can expect good government?" This is natural. After all, democracy means the public elect. The public does not know how to distinguish the rogues and thieves. Therefore the rogues and thieves take the advantage of it and, somehow or other, and take vote and sit on the presidential chair. That is difficulty. Just like our propaganda is... We are not making any propaganda in the beginning, that "Stop this cow slaughter." We are educating people, "Don't eat meat." If people become educated, automatically the slaughterhouse will be closed. This is our propaganda.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Rūpānuga: Just because a man goes in the prisonhouse doesn't mean his thieving is cured. He will come out a thief unless he is actually rectified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. Otherwise again he will commit the same thing and again he will come. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Therefore he requires instruction, good instruction. Sometimes government invites. We were invited that Ahmedabad jail. You remember?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, there was big meeting of the prisoners. Kīrtana, everything, yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- January 17, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, important. Just like officially the policeman must dress, but a policeman sometimes in ordinary cloth also, that's his duty. But that is special case. But external, external dress is also required. By... In the dress of a police if he is a thief, that is very dangerous. That is very dangerous. Just like this dress of sannyāsī, saffron cloth, one will respect that "Here is a sannyāsī." But if he is a thief in a dress of a sannyāsī, that is dangerous. That is dangerous. One must dress... (end)

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have explained. Unless they believe it is good, how they can be put in to miserable condition? Just like some of the thieves. They go to jail. They think, "It is very nice. We haven't got to earn. We are getting food here, free of charge. Yes, it is very nice place. It is my father-in-law's house." (laughs) So unless they believe, how they can tolerate such tribulations? The worm in the stool, he believes, "This is enjoyment." You take it from the stool, put it here, no, it will go again. It thinks it is pleasurable. That is their position. Therefore they have been described as mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: Because blind leaders, we have allowed bribery to come about. In the passport line you have to stand because they suspect one thief. Every man who is a gentleman also has to stand and be inspected. It's Kali-yuga.

Guest (1): One thing is there, when I am worried about this thing or that thing, this is the place where I get peace of mind. I forget everything.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact.

Guest (1): And I don't come here with any expectation, not for liberation or anyone or anything, this or that. I, what I get...

Prabhupāda: If you're getting...

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, that one, I mean to say, rogue, thief, came to a bank manager. Somewhere in Western countries. And he brought some lotions. So he said that "I shall mix up these lotions. Immediately the whole bank will be blown up." So he became afraid because the scientists do that. So... "So you give me check immediately, two hundred millions or something, otherwise I'll mix it." So he gave him that check. And... Because they were... "It is time bomb. If you call police or arrest me within this time, then it will blown up." So in this way, he took away the check. And after sometimes, he phoned to the police, "This is the situation. Come and help us.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This preaching is also required, to make the groundwork. Because nobody's taking care. Just like some of the devotees, great devotees, they took the profession of becoming thief. They, in South India, it was done so. They took the profession of becoming thief. So a devotee is a thief? But he took. They took it. Because nobody was paying. So they organized a plundering party. "Plunder all these big men." Just like the politicians do. There is history. Yes. So even up to the point to become a thief, devotees took it. Yes. And the gopīs, even up to the point of becoming prostitute—for Kṛṣṇa. So for Kṛṣṇa's sake we have to accept any nonsense type of business. Or on the highest grade. Anything. But for Kṛṣṇa we have to do that.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rascal civilization, rascal government. And people are transferred into rascals. (Hindi) Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Without anna, how they can live? There is no arrangement for anna. They're simply passing resolution, legislative laws. And no anna. Just see what kind of wretched government it is. Everywhere. There is no anna. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. The first duty of government is to see that everyone is happy, without any anxiety. These preliminary necessities of life, āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithunam, there must be sufficient arrangement for these preliminary necessities of life. One must eat sumptuously. Not over-eating, indulgence. No. But he must have sufficient food to keep up the health. Similarly, he must have place to sleep. We, we are prepared to offer everything. And be Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our mission. Not by eating and sleeping, become rogues and thieves and rascals.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...university does not teach anyone to steal, but he, he becomes a thief. Does it mean the university has taught him to become a thief? So he steals and goes to the jail. This is the position. Svabhāvas tu pravartate.

Mr. Sar: It's only the nature. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...association with the different qualities.

Mr. Sar: That he has taught within, so many adhyāyas, not only one. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...presents you instruction: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That's all. If you simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then everything finished. Everything is finished.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have respect. But a thief should be called a thief. That is truth.

Dr. Patel: You are the magistrate and you are the judge and you are the...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I am not judge. I am talking on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: (BG 7.15) "One who is a narādhamāḥ, he does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa." So this is judgement. Ah! As soon as we see that one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, we accept, narādhamāḥ. That's all. Whatever he may be.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naked woman, that's all. Both sides it is there. They advertise. Here... In America, anywhere you deposit forty dollars. Next day you get everything. (break) ...they say, "This year it is now reduced." Mean "Criminality, let go on, but from the last year, this year it is now reduced." That's all. (break) "...are drinking. Therefore you cannot call me drunkard." This is the logic. (break) These rogues and thieves will increase. That is the law of nature. Men... (breaks) They have a fire(?). (break) ...took down. (break) ...police, they simply only note down.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...of safety and security. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's reign there was no unnecessary disease and anxiety also. That is mentioned. You have read? (break) Some hundred years ago. When I went to Kashmir, so they said that "Here the law was if a thief was caught and proved he has stolen, his hands would be cut off."

Dr. Patel: That is the law presently in Arabia.

Indian Man: Nepal too. Nepal.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, only twenty-five. (break) ...all these culprits, the burglars, the thieves, they should be punished exemplary. (chuckles) Yes, that should be done. (break) One telegram: "Come immediately Bombay. Everything is all right, Kṛṣṇa has blessed you." (break) I mean to say intelligent in their part, they'll at least give a chance to him. Yes. (break) ...doing all right.

Satsvarūpa: He said he didn't feel well, he was not going to take a walk.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Satsvarūpa: He said he felt too...

Prabhupāda: He has come.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: ...whimsically. It is not possible. Tena eva sa ucyate. If anyone does whimsically, then he becomes immediately thief. So you are a big philosopher. Kindly you spread...

Richard Webster: Very small philosopher.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Anyway, if you spread this God consciousness, this knowledge of God consciousness, philosophy of God consciousness...

Richard Webster: Yes, well, I'm going to write an article on that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it. (break) ...to the Indian railway strike, have you got any news?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you become once more cheated? You have been cheated so many times. Why not try this also? If that is his argument, that means you have been cheated so many times. So why not once more, and see whether it is cheating or reality? That sense will not come. "Oh, I have been cheated so many times. Therefore I shall not take." So why not become once more cheated and see the value? The example, as I say, sometimes. (Bengali) ...that he lost his utensils several times. The thief stole it. Therefore he promised, "Now I shall take my food on the ground. I shall not purchase any more utensils." What is...? This is bathing place or...?

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, the law is all right. Suppose one is degraded to become a criminal, thief, but he can be raised also to become a high, saintly person.

Karandhara: I think what he's asking, Prabhupāda, isn't the degradation... Because in the Vedas it outlines the ages, succeeding one another, and there're different characteristics, isn't it inevitable that it's going to occur, that the devolution occurs inevitably without anyone's being able to change it.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: One who deviates is not a sage. He's a thief.

Pṛthu Putra: Yeah, it's what he says. I'm just translating his words.

Prabhupāda: No, if he deviates from the words of God, then he is not a sage. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, well, the thing that he appreciates in Hinduism is its openness and its tolerance to so many different paths and so many different interpretations.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose I am thief and somebody accuses you that "He is a thief." So I don't take it seriously because I know, "I am also thief." Means these appeal, that does not appeal because "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If everyone is thief, if you point out somebody that "He is thief, he cannot be trusted," then he knows that "I am also thief. It is not a big problem. I am also thief." Unless the whole public is sinless, he cannot appreciate a sinless leader. Care care mastado bhāi (?). This is natural. If I am thief, so what is the use of accusing you by other, "He is also thief." You'll take that "We all are thieves, all cousin brothers; so why this man should be only accused?"

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In Twelfth Canto. (break) ...it is stated.

tasmāt kṣudra-dṛśo martyāḥ

kṣudra-bhāgyā mahāśanāḥ

kāmino vitta-hīnāś ca

svairiṇyaś ca striyo 'satīḥ

"Gradually people will become dwarf, will die very soon, mostly unfortunate, eating too much, and very much sexually agitated, no money, and independent, and the women, all unchaste." Just see. Everything's coming true. Rājan,

rājānaś ca prajā-bhakṣāḥ

śiśnodara-parā dvijāḥ

dasyūtkṛṣṭā janapadā

vedāḥ pāṣaṇḍa-dūṣitāḥ

"The cities will be full of rogues and thieves." Just see.

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No, that is very good remark, appreciated. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He is known as patita-pāvana, the deliverer of the most fallen. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra: "My Lord, Your incarnation is for the reason to deliver all the fallen souls." So He gave one example by delivering Jagāi and Mādhāi, but by His grace, now thousands of Jagāi-Mādhāis are being delivered. He gave the example that here is the typical patita, fallen. So this movement will deliver this kind of people. That is His prediction. Or it... factually by this movement, so many Jagāi-Mādhāis are being delivered. Jagāi... What was their fault? The fault was they were number one woman hunter and all other good qualifications: (laughing) drunkard, meat-eaters and thieves, rogues. That is their qualification. And immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu turned them to become Vaiṣṇava. "Simply promise that... You say that you shall not commit anymore these sinful activities."

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: We should probably turn around now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) If you're preaching honesty to a thief, you have to be careful that he's not stealing your watch in the meantime.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: If you're preaching honesty to a thief, he may steal your watch. So Jesus was trying to teach religion to murderers, so they murdered him.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. (aside:) Don't come very near. If you advise rascals, they'll be angry. No good result. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So we have to become very strong preacher. Then this movement will stay. If you simply take the temple worship, it will not stay very long. Just like...

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We take that it is a competition of the thieves. All rascals. That's not the civilization. And Mahābhārata history also we find so many demons. Just like..., what is called, that asura, he simply plundered all the beautiful princesses.

Devotee (2): Bhaumāsura?

Prabhupāda: Bhaumāsura, something like that. They all of them became Kṛṣṇa's wife. They prayed to Kṛṣṇa to be rescued from the hands of... Then Kṛṣṇa rescued them, killed that Bhaumāsura, and excused them, then they were set free. Then their plea that "We are set free, that's all right, but we cannot go home because we were kidnapped. So we shall not be married. Nobody will accept us."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Suppose now there are a class of thief and class of honest men. So if you associate with the thieves, you will learn how to steal. But you understand also that "People hate us." The thieves, the thief class, they know that the people hate, the police arrest, the police put them... They also know that. But because they are habituated, they cannot give it up.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying stealing is relative. Some people steal because they watch television, some people steal because they're hungry or they need things...

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still does not understand how we can say that one activity is bad or good. For example, he said that we gave the example of thieves, but that implies that previously there was already a standard that "This is good, and this is bad." But he wants to know how he can know definitely what is good and what is bad.

Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is good, and anything else, all bad. God is good. Therefore, if you are God conscious, you are good, and if you are not God conscious, then you are bad.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Because from Bhāgavata we understand that the black man who was born out of the body of King Vena, he was thief. So he was sent to the African jungle. Yes. And they are still thief. (laughter) They cannot give up their... Although they have got independence, they cannot give up this habit. (Dog barking) "Best friend."

Brahmānanda: Mahārāja Pṛthu also came from the body of King Vena.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?

Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.

Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves—you want to steal God's gold-therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves—you want to steal God's gold-therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight. Why do you claim, "This is America, my land"? Is it your land? Have your forefathers created this? Why you falsely claim like that? What is the answer? You have stolen from another party, Red Indians, and you are now claiming, "We are the proprietor." You are thieves. You are not even gentlemen. What do you think?

Room Conversation with Carol Cameron -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: I mean to say that Lord Jesus Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." So, what kind of men were there that Lord Christ had to request them not to kill? That means they were killers. Suppose if somebody's thief, and if I give him some good instruction, I say "You should not commit theft." That means you are thief. You are already. Otherwise why I say that "Thou shall not commit theft"? A naughty child is disturbing. I say, "My dear child, don't do this." Similarly, when Christ said, "Thou shall not kill," that means he said amongst people who were in the habit of killing. Is it not?

Carol: Hmm.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, I am not talking about you particularly, but general way, general way. So this is first-class man. Śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣā. Now, suppose I was not a first-class man; I was a fourth-class man. Now I want to become a first-class man. So I was eating meat. Just these boys, European, American boys, they were eating everything. Now they have given up. On my word or to associate with me, they have given up meat-eating, illicit sex, meat-eating. So in the beginning it may be disturbing because "I am habituated to all these things, and by my spiritual master order not to do this..." So it may be disturbing. But that is called titikṣā, tolerance: "No, I have to do it. If I want to make progress to become first-class man, this is order, so I must do it even..." The tolerance. Even it is disturbing... In the beginning. It is not disturbing. In the beginning, because I habituated to do something... Just like a thief.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody could say against me. Maunaṁ śamyati labdhaḥ.(?) If they remain silent, that means they have accepted. I charge you that "You are thief," and if you don't protest, then you are thief. If you are not thief, immediately you will: "How you say? Why you have said?" There will be fight. But if you remains silent, that proves that you are thief. So they could not give us any counterargument. Therefore they accepted.

Amogha: Their biggest problem is that there isn't any counterargument.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as I told them, "Who is there without father?"

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply propaganda. They are not going. Now the Russian scientist and American scientist are combined. Because both of them thieves, so one thief is asking, "Don't expose me. I will not expose you, so that our business will go on." This is the way. "Let us combine together and cheat these rascals, and otherwise, if you expose me, then I will expose you. Then our business will stop."

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Cooperating. Thief, thief's cooperation.

Devotee: In the Bhāgavatam in Canto Two, it's mentioned here that without discrimination both the demigods and the demons worship the Lord as devotees in the Lord's personal abode. I was wondering if you could explain how this is possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the explanation of the śāstra. Those who are devotees... You can see the devotees, they are gods, demigods. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. Viṣṇu-bhakta, those who are devotees of Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava, they are demigods. So why do you say we do not see the demigods?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: A thief. What would we do if a thief came in? In other words, would we be violent?

Prabhupāda: If a thief came in we shall punish him.

Director: You should be violent?

Prabhupāda: Why not? A thief should be punished.

Director: You would punish yourself? What would you do? Would you start attacking him?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, ourself or anyone, a thief is to be punished. A thief has to be punished. Ourself or yourself, it doesn't matter. A thief is thief. He should be punished.

Director: What if he breaks in because he is hungry?

Prabhupāda: Who breaks?

Madhudviṣa: He says what if he breaks in because he's hungry?

Prabhupāda: We say everyone come and eat. Why he should remain hungry? We invite everyone, come here, eat, no charge. We don't charge.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. He must be at the same time... Although he is hero, he must be generous. Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story. He arrested one thief. So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander, the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me? You are a great thief. I am a small thief." (laughter) So Alexander understood it and got him released, "Yes." (laughter) This is generosity. He must agree to the principle.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is another poor fellow. If by bluffing like this, they can continue their office, that is another thing. In our childhood we were living in a quarter: there many thieves, pickpockets. So we... After all, they were neighborhood men, so they knew us. Although we had no connection, but we knew that "These are pickpockets, gundas." And they also knew us. So I remember, now, children, one pickpocket was taking, and as soon as he saw me... (laughter) He was afraid that "This boy may tell." We have seen it. He was doing... Similarly, these rascals are pickpockets, and they are asking us, "Don't expose us. Let us do."

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then there is also... Both of them are thieves, they have made agreement, "Don't expose me. I'll not expose you."

Devotee: So that is their agree... But they are enemies...

Prabhupāda: No, no, enemies, they are not enemies. They are simply rogues and thieves, that's all.

Paramahaṁsa: Because if they tried to expose Russia, they would also expose themselves.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Honor among thieves.

Prabhupāda: "Thief, thief, cousin brother." Cora cora, pasura bhai. So far our position is that we are not concerned with anything with this universe. We are concerned with Kṛṣṇaloka. So whatever one may say, one other may say, we don't care for that. We are not going to the moon planet, Jupiter(?) planet.

Siddha-svarūpa: There's a danger that we become overly concerned with debating on them.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: They have to keep out the thieves and the rogues.

Prabhupāda: That means they have created thieves and rogues. Therefore they are suspicious. Nowadays in the airport, everyone is searched. Then it is now taken for granted that all of them are cheats. So what is the value of this education if all of them are cheats? There is no discrimination, "Now, here is a educated professor, Dr. Ph.D., he cannot be searched." No, he will be also searched-because, "You may be Ph.D., but we know you are a cheat." (laughter) Is not the conclusion? Will he be excused if he says, "Oh, I am Ph.D." No, you must be searched. "You may be Ph.D., but you are a cheat."

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is immediately grouped amongst the miscreants, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means very meritorious. Just like these scientists. They have got good merit, but that merit is being applied for sinful activities. Just like expert thief, rogue. He has got merit, but he is applying the merit for sinful activities. And next word is mūḍha. Why they are misusing in this way? Because they are rascal, mūḍha, ass. You have seen yesterday film, the ass?

Bahulāśva: Last night in the movie?

Brahmānanda: The donkey was carrying that big heavy load.

Dr. Judah: Oh yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law. The professional murderer, he knows the law. But still, he commits because heart is unclean. And our process, to cleanse the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), it is Sanskrit, "Cleansing the heart." Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam, "Then all the troubles of this material world will be solved."

Lt. Mozee: A very difficult task, sir.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: But he is animal. That is, if you call a thief a thief, he will feel insulted. But does it mean that I shall say that "You are very honest?" A thief shall be called thief. That is natural. If you call a Negro, "You black," he will be angry. But he is black. So... So that is another thing. When the activities are similar to the animal activities, then he is animal. Why a reasonable man will not accept that, hm? In that case also, he is animal. Because they say, "Man is rational animal." So if you are devoid of rationality then again you are animal. So how he will avoid, that he is not animal?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. Because he was criticized by our students in U.S.A. (sound of bell) See? The bell is ringing nice. There was no such ringing in this quarter. (break) ...fixed up so that thieves may not take it away? Not so securely.

Dhanañjaya: Well, they have... I'll make sure it is done today.

Prabhupāda: Oh. When I say? That means no brain. I am asking without seeing, and you are seeing for the last one week. You do not know it, that what is secure, what is not secure. That is the defect. Here thieves are very expert.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Emperor of British Empire, and he was a thief. Just see.

Brahmānanda: You've said that a fly sitting on a throne is still a fly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...one gentleman, young man, he was very rich man's son. He would come in the evening in the Howrah station nicely dressed and would approach any gentleman, "Sir, I am very sorry. I have lost my purse. Can you give me? Otherwise I cannot return." So he will collect five, ten rupees and go to a restaurant and eat and go home. (break) It is the second nature. Now the door is open? We can go?

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Just like if the criminals and thieves say, "Why government has created this prisonhouse?" Is it very good argument? It is for you, rascal. You are criminal. You must suffer. Why it is to be abolished? Otherwise who will suffer? It is for your suffering.

Brahmānanda: Why are we evil? Why doesn't God makes us good?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: Why are we evil?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Why the thief goes to the prisonhouse? He knows that "If I go to the prisonhouse, I will be put into distress."

Cyavana: But the government is not strong enough to force him not to go, not to steal.

Prabhupāda: Why government is not strong enough?

Cyavana: The government doesn't have the power to control everyone. But Kṛṣṇa can...

Prabhupāda: No. Even if he's strong enough, you disobey. The government has made so many things that you cannot steal, the iron chest, but still, you are clever enough that you do.

Morning Walk -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: The Africans are all thieves.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Here there is not as much stealing as in Nairobi. (break) I think they have had to amputate afterwards, mangled by the shore. It happens frequently. On some of the beaches here they've put up signs that "There are many sharks in the water. It is dangerous to bathe here." Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, "Amongst fish, I am the shark." (Prabhupāda chuckles) He shaved off his beard yesterday, this young boy. He shaved off. He had beard. He shaved off.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: First of all you see the government, what is government? Government means a pack of rascals and fools. That's all. This is modern government. All these thieves and rogues are voted to be government men. So how you expect good government? It is not possible. "People's government." All people are rascals. That means government rascal. People's government.

Harikeśa: How would the other necessities of life be taken care of, like medical things? If actually they have no knowledge, and they have to require to build these gigantic hospitals...

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: All rogues and thieves.

Harikeśa: So actually it is not possible to change the...

Prabhupāda: Change—if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Harikeśa: But the system itself is defective. How can...

Prabhupāda: No, the defective will be correct when you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like in your past life you had so many defects. Now it is corrected. That is practical.

Harikeśa: Let's say somebody is a minister...

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Any woman should be looked upon as mother. This is culture. Except his married wife, all women should be treated as mother. The brahmacārīs were taught like that, "Mother." This is culture. Simply they are trying to elope other's wife, other's woman, exploit them. And they're cultured. There is no culture at the present moment. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: "And others' money should be treated just like pebbles in the street." Nobody cares for it. So they are simply making plans how to grab others' money. And Ātmavat sarva bhūteṣu: "And if you feel pains and pleasure, you should consider for others also." If your throat is cut, then do you feel very happy? Why you are cutting the throats of the poor animals? Where is culture? There is no culture. Simply rogues and thieves and rascals and fools. Where is culture? They do not know what is the meaning of culture. Here is culture, three words:

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: The thief is also eating.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's grace, just like the government gives the prisoners also to eat. But they are condemned. And government's grace that government provides all necessities. If a prisoner is sick, he is given the hospital facility. But he is restricted free movement, that much. Otherwise government gives the same facilities within the prison house and without the... The standard may be little different. Eko yo bahūnāṁ (yo) vidadhāti kamān. He satis... Why this human being prisoner? Even He is giving food to the animals, to the birds, beasts, everyone. Noncooperation cannot be.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Brahmānanda: This is going on in the United Nations now.

Prabhupāda: It will go because they are all thieves. When the stolen property is to be divided, there will be fight.

Cyavana: Like a band of pirates. They always fight amongst themselves and kill each other.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Police is not first. First you become a thief; then police is there, not that police comes and arrest you unnecessary. No. As soon as you become criminal, then police comes and arrest you. māyā comes next. If you give up your natural attraction for Kṛṣṇa, if you are attracted by this material enjoyment, then māyā is there. Again if you try to...

Dr. Patel: But material, all material, is made up of māyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nothing is made by māyā. māyā is made by God.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, and a thief has also a guru. Then that guru is also the same thing. (Hindi) Here guru means tasmād gurum prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttaman (SB 11.3.21). (Hindi) Nāpnuvanti mahātmānam saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ.

Yaśomatīnandana: Isn't there some conditioning between the guru and śiśya, that "The guru should be like this and a śiśya should be like this"?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Police, under police they are. I saw in Delhi. One school I went, and the police is there, examination room, but all thieves, rascals. And they are sitting in examination for passing, all rascals.

Dr. Patel: The modern education has become a farce in that dress.

Prabhupāda: Farce, yes. No education. Amongst the Marwaris, the respectable gentlemen, they don't send. They keep private teachers, paṇḍitas, for learning Sanskrit, English. They know that our, "My boy hasn't got to earn money. He has to sit here. That's all. Why he should be spoiled?" They know very well, "We can purchase these technologists."

Morning Walk -- November 26, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And where is enjoyment? The thief also thinks like that: "Let me enjoy by stealing." Then, when he goes to the prison, then his enjoyment finished. If somebody gives you so many rasagullā, that "You take this rasagullā, and after finishing, I shall beat you with shoes," then will you take? (laughter) This is enjoyment. No sane man will like to enjoy like that. "Take this rasagullā, and after this, I will beat you with shoes, as many rasagullā you have taken." Will you take it?

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Even you do not give dāna, he will take away by thievery.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, that is a misuse. Misuse.

Dr. Patel: Dānam, dānam... (quotes Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: If you make tamasic dāna, then you become implicated with his sinful activities. Suppose you want to kill somebody, and you're asking, "Can you give me a nice knife?" "What you will do?" "I shall kill that man." "All right, take it, dānam. I am giving you in charity." So he will be implicated. In the court, if it is known that that man supplied the knife, "Arrest him.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that "I was imperfect, thief. Therefore I have put into jail." So we can face any philosopher. But I can give you ideas. You can write some small articles. Let them solve these thesis, antithesis and synthesis. They, they accept this thesis, antithesis?

Harikeśa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Put them.

Harikeśa: And actually it's, it works very nicely because the thesis doesn't have to be accepted as a fact in the beginning.