Prabhupāda: The direct manifestation is the spiritual world and the indirect manifestation is this material world. Indirect manifestation means it is simply a shadow of the spiritual world. Just like in the Bible also it is said the man is made after God. So you have got two hands, one head, two leg. So the mental speculation is said that these devotees, they create God according to their own feature. Because I am two-handed, and therefore I create God with two hands, Kṛṣṇa. But actually, the fact is not that. Actually, because Kṛṣṇa has got two hands and we have got an imitation body of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we have got two hands. Because this is imitation. That we know everything, everyone. This body will not stay. Therefore it has got janma. Janma means birth or creation at a certain period, and it stays, say, for fifty years or hundred years. Then dissolved, dissolution.
The fact is... (Conversations)
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. That we should avoid. That we should avoid. But that is not abominable. According to time and circumstances... That thing I have described. The fact is fact. Just like when I am describing Kṛṣṇa's līlā—I writing Kṛṣṇa's life—so I cannot give up that portion of His life, when Kṛṣṇa is actually kissing the gopīs in rasa dance.
Satsvarūpa: But that's in the books. Not in the public...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So in such circumstances, of course, we can give. But as far as possible, very cautiously and very rarely we shall present. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life we see that in public He never discussed about Kṛṣṇa's līlā with the gopīs. That was very confidential discussion amongst His own circle, Rāya Rāmaṇanda, Svarūpa Dāmodara, like that. And He inquired...
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: They are sincere, sincerely seeking after. Their material business is finished because they have enjoyed enough of material things. Now there is spiritual inquiry. That is natural. When our material necessities are complete, we enjoy, then next stage is spiritual hankering. And that is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. After finishing karma-kāṇḍīya life... Karma-kāṇḍīya life means you do pious activities and enjoy life. That is called karma-kāṇḍīya. So... But the fact is that even you get your birth in a very rich family, you cannot avoid the sufferings of this material nature. Just like yesterday we had an interview with Holkar(?), His Highness Holkar, the old gentleman. So he was a king. He has got very beautiful wife, very beautiful family, very palatial building, but he is not happy, we saw. So the foolish people, they do not know that in this material life there is no happiness.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: (BG 7.8) "I am the taste in the water." Now, this taste in the water is perpetual. When Kṛṣṇa was physically present or Kṛṣṇa is not physically present, this is a perpetual fact. Is it not? Do you think the taste in the water was different when Kṛṣṇa was present and the taste of water is different now?
Guest (1): No, it cannot be.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, He says, prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the shining of the sun and the moon." In this way, if you study what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll find that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only solution for that highest perfectional stage of happiness.
Prabhupāda: No, no, because... There may be so many "because." But the fact is that there is nothing in this material world which can satisfy everyone.
Guest (1): There can be a method which can...
Prabhupāda: Maybe, but we do not know.
Guest (1): Therefore beyond that, you see, I came...
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa. We accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme authority. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Who is accepting this? We have accepted. Some others may have accepted but you have not accepted.
Prabhupāda: So in our, this Vedic way of life, to accept guru is essential. Even big, big ācārya... Even Kṛṣṇa, He accepted guru, Sandipani Muni. Lord Caitanya accepted guru, Īśvara Purī. They are perfect, but still, the ways They are showing because They are ācārya. Kṛṣṇa is teaching, taking the part of the ācārya, so he is also accepting, although the fact is as soon as went to, within a few days He learned everything. That is stated in our Kṛṣṇa Book. Within a few days He became expert warrior, expert magician, expert yogi, every..., so many things, all arts. But He learned from a guru. He is perfect Himself, Kṛṣṇa. He is called Yogesvara. He knows all the yoga process, but still, in order to teach us, because He is playing the part of a teacher, He shows us that you must learn from guru. "I am learning from guru." So any science, you cannot learn it automatically by yourself. No, that is not. Then we shall create so many mental speculators, so many things.
Guest (2): And what is the figure likely to be? Five a week, ten a week?
Prabhupāda: We don't keep any statistics, but actually the fact is that I started alone; now we are eight thousand.
Guest (2): I'm sorry, I didn't quite get that...
Haṁsadūta: Five years ago, Prabhupāda, he came to New York with these kartāls, and he began alone by sitting in a park underneath a tree chanting this very same Hare Kṛṣṇa, which you see the boys on Oxford St. chanting. And now there are eight thousand students all over the world, and approximately a hundred centers. At that time, Śrīla Prabhupāda didn't even have a place for himself. But now he has a place in every major city.
Guest (2): You used the word "student" here. You're referring to this as...
Prabhupāda: Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe. Everything must be related with God.
Sister Mary: Well, if you're relaxing, if you need to relax, and you sit and listen to some music, it doesn't say praise God all the time, but in fact is, because it's beautiful.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept anything beautiful without God. Without God, everything is ugly to us. Everything ugly.
Sister Mary: So you have to bless it by offering it to God first.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another thing.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: A doctoral dissertation, a Ph.D. dissertation, that when I became a devotee I was studying religion... (Break)
Prabhupāda: ...Hindu, or I may be a Christian, but the fact is that we are serving somebody. Either you be Hindu or Muslim or Christian or you may profess any religion, but you must be serving somebody. Is it not? So that serving is religion. Try to understand this.
Kīrtirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I just wanted to say I found the name of that Council General. His name is A.K. Ray, R-a-y. So do wish to do anything further with it? (end)
Prabhupāda: Truth is historical fact is.
Śyāmasundara: Bhagavad-gītā-did it take place? There was a battlefield of Kurukṣetra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is historical. Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means the history of Greater India. Mahābhārata.
Dr. Weir: Mahābhārata.
Prabhupāda: This Mahābhārata means, mahā means greater. Formerly 5,000 years ago, the whole planet was called Bhārata, India. India it is now called. Actually the name is Bhārata. Bhārata is the name given after the reign of Mahārāja, one King Bhārata. He was the ruler, emperor, of the whole world. After his reign this planet is called Bhārata, this whole planet, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata is Greater India or Greater Bhārata. The headquarter was in India but it was greater, according to Mahābhārata history and this Bhagavad-gītā is given there in the Mahābhārata. Therefore it is history.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You cannot expect many disciples, but still, there are two thousand. Because I have got so many conditions and the fact is so difficult to understand, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, they have forgotten God, and I am trying to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is a very difficult job. I have to shed my blood three tons before I make one convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is my experience. I have to talk with him, especially these Europeans and Americans. They do not accept anything so blindly. They try to... I am always being questioned, even in my tooth(?) Question, question, question. That's nice. Inquisitive, they want to know. So I give them answers. I have got four secretaries always with me. They are giving answers.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. Fact is fact. Whether you believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. Hiraṇyakaśipu thought that: "I shall not die on the land, on the water, on the sky." But death was there. Asuric, this is asuric thinking. (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's called captivation by the illusory energy.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The illusory...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, ignorance. (pause) What is time?
Brahmānanda: Six-thirty-five. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you require a superior energy. This is inferior energy, and the superior energy comes, mixes. Then the fact is there. The inferior energy has no power unless the superior energy tackles. Just like this sea will remain calm and quiet. But another superior, air, when it pushes, it becomes high waves. It has no power. Another superior... Similarly another superior, another superior, another superior. So ultimately Kṛṣṇa, the most superior. This is research. These waves are not moving by itself. Although the vast mass of water is there. When the superior energy, air, pushes it, it becomes big waves.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the action of force is necessary?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not only acintya-śakti. First of all you have to establish that life is not from matter. Matter is from life. Then they will be under your control. First of all you have to establish. Because their whole scientific advancement is going on on this basis, that life is from matter. But that is not the fact. Matter is from life, just the opposite. First of all you have to establish this. Why don't you write a theory and get Nobel Prize? This is a fact. Now you have to prove only, by their scientific words. That's all. Fact is this is. Are you convinced about this fact, that matter comes from life, not life comes from matter? Are you convinced or not? Otherwise how you can write?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I am convinced.
Krishna Tiwari: Not necessarily foundation.
Prabhupāda: Belief, belief is there. Fact is not belief. Fact is fact.
Krishna Tiwari: Well fact has to be established.
Prabhupāda: Established? Is established. I say, I say that this is the distinction between dead man and living man.
Krishna Tiwari: Will that extend to animals also?
Prabhupāda: Anyone. Anyone.
Krishna Tiwari: According to our Hindu philosophy, I understand everything has a soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. You are conscious, I am conscious, that's a fact. It is not the question of belief. It is not question of belief. Belief may be wrong, but fact is fact.
Mr. Wadell: Yes, agreed.
Prabhupāda: So when one's... I say that I am conscious, you say you are conscious. We are conscious. That's a fact. And that consciousness is the symptom of the presence of the soul. Because from the dead body... Dead body means when the soul departs from the body, there is no more consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That means it is a association of cheaters and cheated. Somebody wants to cheat and somebody's being cheated. That's all. That is our opinion. So how the association of cheaters and cheated can do anything good to the human society? They're cheaters. They do not know how this peace has to be attained, and they're trying to attain peace in their own way. Therefore they're cheaters. You do not a subject matter, how to do it, and you're trying to do it, that means you are cheater. It may be very strong words, but the fact is there. Why should you try something which you do not know adequately? That is our protest.
Prabhupāda: The fact is true. But if I cannot understand, that is my misfortune.
Guest: Yes. And if I can't understand what this is the end of the... So yes, it's the same. I think this is right.
Prabhupāda: God is fact. But if somebody cannot understand, it is his misfortune.
Guest: Yes. And another time, another place.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: As you say, there are many oceans. The Christians say, "In my father's house are many mansions." A Chair. (indistinct) Good enough?
Prabhupāda: It is not faith; it is fact. Faith may be wrong. Faith may be right or wrong, but fact is fact.
Karandhara: Well, when they say fact, they mean what they can perceive through their senses grossly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, with senses, senses. That is... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we have got relationship with God and senses, our senses. That is hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). When the senses are engaged with the Supreme, in relationship, that is called bhakti. It is a question of senses. It is not vague. We apply everything, we go with our senses. Just like the leg, we go, take our legs to the temple. We use our tongue for glorifying, for eating the prasādam. Every senses. That is bhakti. It is not sensuous, but engaging the senses in the service of the proprietor of the senses.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They may say that there is no necessity, but the fact is that there must be.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Otherwise they, we cannot conceive of how things are going on.
Prabhupāda: Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Just like in the modern days, government, they have abolished monarchism, but still, why they elect a president? Why?
Prajāpati: Must be leadership.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may say nonsense. The fact is this. That if he is sama-darśinaḥ, equal, then why he is particularly aiming to the lower class? That means he is not sama-darśinaḥ. He has not come to the stage. He is simply talking nonsense. Sama-darśinaḥ means he is equal to everyone. That is sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ does not mean to get a cheap adoration, popularity, I go to the poor. That is their Ramakrishna Mission. They also are doing that same thing. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, like that. Why daridra? Why not real Nārāyaṇa? Just like this morning we read nārāyaṇa-pade. Never said daridra-nārāyaṇa-pade. To the great. Surrender does not mean to the lower. Does it mean surrender? Surrender, this relationship means that to whom I surrender, he is greater than me. And to the lower, mercy. These two words. One who is lower than me, I may show my mercy, but one who is greater than me, there is the question of surr...
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking the rice is..., rice is producing the scorpion. It is called taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. But rice cannot produce a life. The real fact is a scorpion lays down the egg within the rice, and by the fermentation it comes out. Just eggs. And the small creature comes out. And foolish creatures, they think it that the rice is producing scorpion. That is not possible. So they are putting forward this evolution theory that man is coming from monkey, but no monkey is producing a man. Nobody has seen. There are so many things. They put forward some theory, but it is not fact.
New Devotee: The quickest way to knowledge...
Prabhupāda: No...
Dr. Patel: There is no research...
Prabhupāda: That is... But when the fact is there, what is the use of your researching? When the fact is already there, what is the use of your so-called researching?
Guest (3): How can we see Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That is being explained.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Dvi-bhuja murlidhara śyāmasundara. Venuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁsam asitāmbudha-sundarāṅgam (Bs. 5.30). Arcā-vigraha. Venuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ barhāvataṁ... Barha, this peacock feather. They are described in the Vedic literature, but these rascals say, "That it is imagination. They have imagined." The Māyāvādīs say, "They have imagined a form of God as Kṛṣṇa, with peacock feather, with murlī." But that's not the fact. The fact is there in the Vedic literature. So Kṛṣṇa has got this universal form, but the devotees are not interested with this universal form. But they know that Kṛṣṇa has universal form. Go on.
Prabhupāda: It is in the Tenth Canto. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padam. Just like this ocean, if it becomes a small pit, then don't require a big ship to cross over. You just... Like this. It can be reduced. By Kṛṣṇa's desire, it can be done so. Just like at the present moment... Formerly, people used to go to London from India, from Bombay, at least, in fifteen days. Now it doesn't take even fifteen hours. It takes only nine hours. How it has been reduced? Because there is a process to reduce. Similarly, the supreme spiritual process is like that. It can be reduced to any quantity. Aṇi... This is called aṇimā-siddhi. It can be expanded also, to the greatest length. Mahimā-śakti. All-powerful means not that "I cannot do, I cannot, I can do this only." No, anything He can do. That is all powerful. Aṇimā, laghimā, mahimā. Just like all these big, big planets, they are floating in the sky. This is called laghimā, weightless, no weight. Those who are going to the moon planet, they are finding out weightlessness. How it has become weightless? Such a big, huge... Just this planet. With so many seas and mountains and cities and buildings. But it is floating. That's a fact. It is floating like a swab. How it is floating? You can say something nonsense, but the actual fact is this.
Prabhupāda: "That may be in your śāstra. But what is the extra thing? That chanting, that's all right. We also go to the church and sing hymns also."
Satsvarūpa: The fact is you do not know who God is. You do not know how God works. So...
Prabhupāda: "No, I know in my own way."
Satsvarūpa: That is not sufficient. You should develop, become educated.
Prabhupāda: "But what is the use of it, having sufficiency? What is the distinction, that you have got sufficient love and therefore there is distin...?"
Satsvarūpa: Ah, I may not have sufficient love, but one who does, he'll increase every way...
Robert Gouiran: We call in a way, but...
Prabhupāda: You call in any way, but the fact is this that there is something, when in contact with that something, the matter grows. Otherwise it doesn't grow. That we call spirit soul. You may call it something else. That is a different thing. You can call in a different name, but matter grows not automatically. There must be in touch something with matter. Then it grows. This is a fact.
Robert Gouiran: And it grows by aglutamation (?) of particles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That may be. The composition may be. We take grossly five matters, gross matters, and five subtle matters. Five gross matters: this earth, water, air, fire, ether. These are gross matters. And subtle matters: mind, intelligence and ego. These are eight different types of gross and subtle matters. But they depend on the still more subtle thing.
Jyotirmayī: He is asking if it is possible for young Christians... Because each time he has been coming he has been bringing with him people, you know, Christian who have been chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, with him. So he is asking if it is possible for them to chant the name God, that in fact is not really a name, by the name Kṛṣṇa, because according to what you are explaining, God is Kṛṣṇa. So can they chant the name of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God. Kṛṣṇa is God. God is the idea of greatness. That is Brahman. Or you can say also person, but not the particular person. God means, the Sanskrit word is īśvara, the controller. So everyone is controller to some extent. In his own atmosphere he is a controller, as I am controller of my disciples. So the conception of God is there, but I am not the Supreme God. Therefore, there are two words. We use the word "Godhead," "the Supreme God."
Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."
Prabhupāda: The animal does not require any education. The animal knows how to use sex; the man knows how to use sex. Where is the difference? Simply she is animal, she does the sex intercourse in a public street, animal (indistinct) an apartment, very nice apartment (indistinct). It is (indistinct), either you are dog or a human being, the fact is. He also sleeps. He sleeps on the street anywhere, and we sleep in a nice apartment. He also eats, and the human being also eats. He eats the stool and we eat very nice, palatable foodstuff. That sleeping propensity is there, sex life is there, and he is also afraid of enemies. Where is the difference? Difference is that dog cannot be taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness but a man can be taught. That is the difference. So if man does not take advantage of this human life, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is no better than a dog. He has no (indistinct)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That tradition is nothing. Tradition is just temporary. You make your tradition; he makes your tradition. That is another thing. But the, fact is fact. That is not dependent on tradition. Tradition we can make, tradition. "We believe." Just like somebody says, "We believe." What is the use of such saying, "We believe"? You may believe something which is not fact.
Professor: Yes, but we could say that since the Upaniṣads and later, all things have been sustaining the thing which you have just said a moment ago, that there exists an identity between ātman and Brahmān.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not talking of religion. We are talking of philosophy and science. When we talk about these things that the occupier of the body is within the body, it is neither any Christian knowledge nor Hindu knowledge nor... It is fact. It is a science. The science cannot be "I believe or you believe or you..." That is not science. Science is science. I have already said. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable everywhere. Similarly, this is knowledge, that the proprietor, or the occupier of the body, is within the body. You can study from any angle of vision. The fact is there.
Prabhupāda: Then it is something like that, that the motor mechanic is interested with the motor car, but he is not interested with the welfare of the driver. But the fact is, if the driver is not in order, the car will not go. It may be well-equipped, well-engined, well-oiled, but if the driver is defective, it will create another disaster.
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He feels that you don't understand what he's saying, that actually he does not feel that we should dedicate ourselves exclusively to the body...
Prabhupāda: I don't say exclusively. I say the first care should be taken of the driver, and taking care of the car is secondary.
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming, there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. You know that? Vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. Sometimes we see some heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country? We have seen it. From the rice, heaps of rice, one scorpion, small scorpion, is coming. The fact is that the parent of the scorpion, they put their eggs within the rice and, being fermented, the scorpion comes out, not that from rice the scorpion is coming out. Therefore it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya.
Prabhupāda: God is truth; what is forgetfulness of God, that is illusion. God is truth. Just like the sun is present all the time, twenty-four hours. But we say now there is no sun, at night. But that's not the fact. The fact is the sun is there; I cannot see. That is illusion. Not that God is not there. God is there. As exactly, same example, the sun is there at night, but I cannot see under certain condition. Therefore it is illusion. Our senses are imperfect; therefore sometimes we cannot understand or see God. If our senses are purified, then we can see God every moment. So, what is your idea of God?
Prabhupāda: ...fact is that if you have got different views about Kṛṣṇa, then you cannot prove that from the Bhagavad-gītā. That you cannot prove. If you take Bhagavad-gītā, then you must present it as it is. Don't distort it. You may have got some idea, but you explain that idea in your different book. But don't place it as the explanation of Bhagavad-gītā. That is not very good. If you have got different theory, you can write in a different book. But we cannot permit or do not like that as the commentary of Bhagavad-gītā you will place something different. That is not very honest. You put your own theory. Why should you try to put your theory through Bhagavad-gītā? That we protest. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that "There is no superior authority than Me." Therefore He is the God. Mām eva ya prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8): "I am the origin of everything."
Prabhupāda: All men can stand or not stand—that is a different question. The fact is this. Suppose if I say, "Unless you become a graduate, you cannot enter law college." Now this question does not arise that whether everyone will be graduate. But this is the condition. This is the condition. Anyone who fulfills this condition, he can be admitted.
Guest: Then what is the condition prescribed for standing on the spiritual platform?
Prabhupāda: This is the spiritual platform,
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
This is spiritual. Unless you come to this platform, there is no question of samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu or samyavāda. Generally, they do not know it. They are talking of samyavāda.
Prabhupāda: Blind men. Therefore this fact is summarized in the Bhagavad-gītā in the words,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta jñānā
- āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Because they have denied the existence of God, therefore they are blind and they are engaged in sinful activities without knowing what is going to happen next in his life. Therefore mūḍha, rascal. And narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ means lowest of the mankind, because in the human form of life one could understand what is God, but he is misusing his intelligence for something else, narādhamāḥ. But if you say, "They are educated. They have got so much education. Why do you condemn them?" then the answer is māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This so-called knowledge they have acquired, that means māyā has made them more foolish.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that means you are always in ignorance. This means that you are always in ignorance. And Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Kṛṣṇa says the same thing I am speaking to you again. That means we are not in ignorance. We may forget something, but the truth is always the same. But you are making, manufacturing, discovering truth. That means you do not know what is truth. You should answer like that. That you are all rascals. You do not know what is truth; therefore you are discovering truth. Truth is never discovered. It is already there. But you do not know what is that truth. That is credit that you are making advance towards truth, but you do not know what is truth. That is a fact. Is it clear? Making discoveries means you do not know what is truth. But it is good credit for you that you are trying to advance. That we agree.
Prabhupāda: Belief is different thing and fact is one thing.
Sister: Philosophi..., or, say, hypothesize that you can reach self-actualization.
Prabhupāda: Belief is no good. I believe. You may believe something wrong. That is not... You must know the fact. That is wanted.
Mother: But a person knows if they're doing wrong always.
Prabhupāda: If you are educated in a wrong way, then you will do wrong.
Mother: But I mean a person knows when they're doing wrong. They know when they're doing evil.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that enjoy. Pramattaḥ. They are called madmen. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. They know it certainly, "Every one of us will die," but seeing also, they do not see. And that is madman. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. That the animal, he is seeing that "One animal is being killed. Next time is mine," but still eating grass. He has no anxiety. This is called pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. This is animal life, that even though fact is there, they will close their eyes. That's all. This is animal life.
Australian devotee 1: Śrīla Prabhupāda, even if there is a life after death, I don't know what it's going to be like, so why should I worry about it now?
Prabhupāda: You are thinking this is Oriental civilization, but that is not the fact. The fact is this is human civilization. There is no question of east and west. Every living being, not only human being, even other beings—there are 8,400,000's forms of life—and Kṛṣṇa claims that
- sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
- mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
- tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
- haṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
- (BG 14.4)
So Kṛṣṇa is for the aquatics, the animals in the water. The vast sea, there are so many animals. Then, from the water, the trees are coming out. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. In this way evolutionary process is going on. But all of them, living entities, and part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. So by the evolutionary process they come to the human form of life. Now there is developed consciousness.
Yogi Bhajan: No, granted. What we are trying to do is we are giving out a call to all learned, the unlearned... But basic fact is: there is a desire somewhere in the ether that everybody wants to feel each other. And they have not done anything good by negating each other or talking negatively. They have not gained anything. They have realized it now. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: Now, what will be the basic principle of unity? That is the point.
Yogi Bhajan: The point of basic unity is respect for each other.
Prabhupāda: But that is going on. Suppose you have come here. I welcome you. If I go to your place, you welcome me. That respect is going on.
Bahulāśva: Actually, the fact is that now the scientists are spending so much money on this research, but the research is only being used in their personal homes. The common people have never seen any of these great devices. This one devotee, Jayarama, his uncle is a big scientist. He has created this radio telescope. So I saw pictures of his personal home, and it must cost about $300,000. All these scientific devices he has. But the people never see those things. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: ...and for all the success of scientific advancement, they have not created any love for God or their fellow man.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They should scientifically explain what is Kṛṣṇa. Then their science is perfect. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā (SB 1.5.22), education, tapasya, sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddha-dattayoḥ, charity and gentleness, all good qualities. So kavibhiḥ nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ, big personalities they have decided, yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. If, by their knowledge they can establish vāsudevaḥ sarvam..., Kṛṣṇa is the origin, then their scientific knowledge is perfect. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito. Kavibhiḥ means great learned scholars.
Prabhupāda: Dogmatic, no. Why we should waste our time talking with such foolish men? "I don't believe." No, what... You believe or not believe; fact is fact. You are going to be old man. If you say "I don't believe," then is that a very good proposition? It does not depend on your believing or not believing. The nature's course will take place. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That will go on. What is there in your believing and not believing? If you keep yourself in such darkness that "If you believe, then it is fact," then you are a fool, rascal. If you depend only on your belief, then you are a fool. What is the meaning of your belief? "I believe if I touch fire it will not burn." Will this belief protect me? You touch fire; it will burn. You believe or not believe.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Formerly the Manchester people were exploiting Indians. Now the Ahmedabad people, they have learned how to exploit. That's all. And government is satisfied because they pay tax. "Never mind. The workers may suffer, go on suffering." This is going on. And they have lost their own culture, and they have been taught how to drink, how to eat meat. This is... (break) ...fact is that Indians cannot work so hard as the Western people can work. The climate does not allow. India's climate is good for peaceful living, less work, and brain engaged in spiritual advancement. That is India's gift. They are not meant for hard work. Hard work is not required for anyone. This is animal civilization, to work very hard. Then what is the difference between animal and man? A man has to work so hard like animal; then what is the difference?
Prabhupāda: But sādhu... They are sādhu because they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Api cet sudurācaraḥ. Their case is different. But others, they are all asādha, asādhu. Kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. A man may be materially, academically very advanced, but Bhāgavata says, kuto mahad-guṇāh. Because he is not devotee, harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāh. "Why? They have got so many qualifications; still, they are not great personality?" No. "Why?" Mano-rathena asato dhāvato bahiḥ: "They will only act on their mental platform, speculate." No fact. The fact is that he is soul. He has to change this body. That they have forgotten, and making big, big plan. This is... Prahlāda Mahārāja regrets, śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān: (SB 7.9.43) "I am thinking of these rascals, fools." māyā-sukhāya: "For māyā-sukha," means the false or illusory happiness, "they are making some huge, gorgeous arrangement."
Prabhupāda: The actual fact is that Lord Śiva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Rāvaṇa, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. If Kṛṣṇa kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion. And if Kṛṣṇa protects somebody, nobody can kill him. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Huh? He was protected by Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva. Who can kill?
Kīrtanānanda: Why did Lord Śiva try to protect Banasura?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not experiment. It is to be subjected to discussion. That is not experiment. Because the fact is there. Now whether it is fact, that you have to discuss.
Harikeśa: So this experimental knowledge should be strictly kept in the scientific realm. You know, discussion...? Because you asked me before to write on...
Prabhupāda: The scientific knowledge is already there, but as you do not accept it, then the question of discussion, or, you say, experiment, can come. The truth is already there. Just like the sun is the truth, is there. Everyone knows. Now somebody says "There is no light," and somebody says "There is light." Now it has to be discussed.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, just like a man is suffering from tuberculosis, and if his physician says that "You are attacked with tuberculosis," then he'll shocked. But the fact is there.
Dayānanda: They think that the Vedic culture is uncivilized.
Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.
Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: No, that I protested in Chicago. Yes. "And no, that is not the fact. The fact is man has 64 ounce. The woman has 36 ounce.... Highest."
Devotee (2): They'll say intelligence is not dependent on the size of the brain.
Prabhupāda: They say anything because they are rascals. A rascal can say anything. Pāgale ki nā bale chāgale kibā nā khāya: "A madman, what he does not say? And a goat, what he does not eat?" (laughter)
Pañca-draviḍa: (break) ...Vedic civili...
Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization means you don't talk rascal. Hear only. Śruti. This is Vedic civilization: "You rascal, don't talk. Simply hear." This is Vedic civilization, śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "Go to guru and hear from him." That is Vedic civilization. Don't talk, rascal. This is Vedic civilization. And Vedic civilization begins, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is Vedic civilization: "Don't talk, rascal. Just, just carry out what I say." This is Vedic civilization.
Prabhupāda: (laughter) The story is that one poor man was informed by his friend that "Money draws money." That's a fact. If you have got money, you can draw money. So he went to the bank, and the cashier was counting huge amount of money, and he threw his coin on the cash..., (laughs) and he was waiting: "When the whole money will come to me?" Then the cashier saw this man is standing: "What is the...? Why you are standing?" "Sir, I heard that money draws money, so I had one coin. I have dropped with your money. I am waiting when it will come to me." So he said, "No, no. The fact is that, money draws.... Now my money has drawn your money." (laughter) So.... (Hindi)
Devotee (1): This philosophy's alien to everything they heard, so it's different than everything they heard.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the.... A fact is that. Why it is alien?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Western religions have taught that whatever you do in this lifetime will determine whether you go to heaven or hell, and there's no second chance.
Prabhupāda: So.... So they are not afraid of going to hell? There are two alternatives, either heaven or hell. But if he's going to hell?
Guru-kṛpā: That's why they have confession.
Prabhupāda: Oh, finished everything.
Prabhupāda: Well, Christian religion.... We are not talking of religion. We are talking of science, fact. When I say that "You are young man. You'll become old man," either you are Christian or Hindu, Muslim, this is a fact. So don't bring in "The Christian believe this" or "Hindu believe this." Fact is fact. A child becomes a boy—a Christian believes; a Hindu believes; a Muslim believes. Everyone believes. So we are talking of the science. The child becomes a boy, a boy becomes a young man, young man becomes old man, and the old man, when this body becomes rotten, he accepts another body. So this is applicable for Bible or Christian or this or that, everyone.
Prabhupāda: If you say that.... I say that "You are not this body; you are soul." Now, if you say that "As Christian, we don't believe in it," then what can I say? Then I have to say that Christian have no clear idea of knowledge. There is no question of belief. Fact is fact. A child will become a boy. That's a fact. How you can say that "We Christian, we do not believe"? That means ignorance, less intelligence. It is a fact. Everyone knows. Child becomes a boy.
Brian Singer: What is the God that these other religions believe in? Is that...
Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as....
Prabhupāda: So never went to school, but Oxford University gave him Ph.D. That does not mean that "I shall also receive Ph.D. like Rabindranath Tagore. I shall not go to school." The general method is: one must go to the school. Exceptional cases, that without going to school one can become Ph.D.... But we should not imitate that, that "Rabindranath Tagore got Ph.D. without going to school. I shall sit down." But the fact is that even without going to school one can get Ph.D. That's a fact. But that is not the method. The method is that you must go to the primary school, then secondary school, then enter college, then take your degree. Then you become M.A. and Ph.D. That is the general process, step by step. And if you take the example of Rabindranath Tagore, that "He did not go to school.
Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals.
Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "So we have spoken so many other things for other rascals. But you are My friend, very intimate. I tell you, this is real fact." So fact is fact. If you take earlier or later, that is different thing. You have to come. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). One has to take many births before coming to this understanding. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. So everyone is not mahātmā even, what to speak of sudurlabhaḥ. (laughs) (end)
Rāmeśvara: Creative energy is there.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the fact is...
Rāmeśvara: Impersonal.
Prabhupāda: Not impersonal, personal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then who created the creator?
Prabhupāda: Huh? That we shall see, but first of all you have to accept there is a creator.
Rāmeśvara: They will agree, some people will agree...
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, because life is also chemicals.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the fact is that they cannot even manufacture a tiny seed which will fructify.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let them manufacture a seed. From that seed a big tree will come.
Rāmeśvara: They cannot do that.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Candanācārya: Some devotees are saying that cockroaches are coming from the vapors of impure things.
Prabhupāda: The energy and the intelligence you got for your self-realization or your, this precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various species of life, this is your problem, and this was to be solved in human life, you have got advanced intelligence, but that intelligence is utilized from castor seed lamp to the electric lamp. That's all. Just try to understand. What is that improvement? And for this improving from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real business. You lost yourself. This civilization is going on. This is called māyā. For some fictitious happiness you lose your whole purpose of life. It is difficult to understand, but the fact is there. But you are under the control of nature, you have to give up this body. All right, you make very nice arrangement to live here, nature will not allow you to live. You must die. And after death you are going to get another body. So in this body, working for high grade electricity lamp, you work so hard, have got your own business, and next life by the laws of nature, if you get the body of a dog, then what is the benefit? That you cannot check. What is the answer? Hmm?
Prabhupāda: You believe or not believe. Just like this child, it is boy, he does not know anything. But I know, his mother knows, his father knows that he's going to be young man. If he says, "No, I am not going to be young man," that is childish. That is childish. But the father, mother, friends know that the boy is going to grow a young man, so he should be educated and he should be properly situated. That is the guardian's business. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. So that he doesn't know, that does not mean it is fact. So similarly, if rascals say, "I don't believe it," that's not a fact. He is a rascal, mad, he may say so, but that is not the fact. Karaṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgasya. Real fact is that he'll have to accept a body according to the quality of development.
Prabhupāda: Then when there is some sign of death, why do you go away? Sit down and die. (laughter) You don't accept. You are talking foolishly. You don't want to die. That is a fact. You are talking foolishly, that "I accept it," but you don't accept it. That is the fact. But because you have no other way, then you say, "I accept it." The real fact is this, that you do not wish to die, but you find that there is no other alternative, "Then I accept it. All right." So you can talk like that, foolishly, but intelligent man, you do not want to die.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: One time, one boy said that. So as soon as he said it, I picked up a stick and went like that "Oh!" and said "See, you are afraid." And he said, "No, I'm not afraid." So I went—and he was showing fear.
Prabhupāda: Immediately, just see. And if you allow one second, he'll fill the whole body up by sucking the...Just see what is that nozzle and how quickly they can... There is no intelligence? The mosquito has better intelligence than any human being about his business. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. That particular body, he is destined to enjoy a certain amount of sense gratification according to his body. Sarvatra labhyate daivād. God's arrangement is nice. He can get it. The mosquito is getting. He wanted to suck blood, so he has been given a teeny body, he can suck blood. Very little quantity. So arrangement is there. He'll satisfy his senses, daivād, by arrangement of God. So why you are endeavoring? Even it is there in the mosquito, even it is there in the tiger or any animal or man, it is already arranged. Why you are wasting time in that way? Simply sense gratification. Who will understand this philosophy? The fact is explained. That gentleman, Subramanya is very much appreciative.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is stated there yad advaitaṁ brahma upaniṣadi. That means he must understand the Upaniṣads. He must understand what is Brahman. So without understanding this, how he can understand Caitanya-caritāmṛta? It will be explained there, but the fact is this. What is that? Is there any explanation?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, there's no purport to this verse.
Prabhupāda: So further on there is explanation. Find out that.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? How does one know when he has the understanding of the Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: What does he say? Answer him.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What did you say?
Prabhupāda: Because the real fact is they do not want to give up meat-eating and fish-eating. Therefore they like Vivekananda. That is the real reason. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, Vaiṣṇava, they have to give up so many things. That is the disease of the Bengalis. And Vivekananda is recognized only in Bengal. To some part, not all.
Vipina: There is also a small Vedanta Society here in Washington. I had one of our Indian associates, whom I hope you will be able to meet, go there, and he said they could not even discuss the topics of Bhagavad-gītā. They had no conclusions, they were arguing in their own meeting, and no one had any idea what Bhagavad-gītā was, and so many technical points.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they think that all the living entities would be like that.
Prabhupāda: That is their kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, Dr. Frog. But the fact is, any condition of material existence, there is possibility of living entity there. Sarva-ga, sthāṇur, acalo'yaṁ sarva-ga. Everywhere there is living entity. It is impossible to conclude that on other planets there is no living entity. It is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it possible to do some experiments?
Prabhupāda: You experiment, you see a dead body. It is obnoxious smelling, but living entities coming.
Prabhupāda: Not attached! It is attachment. "No attachment" means I have earned this two millions dollars, and I throw it away. That is no attachment. But that is also stated, yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27), "Give that money to Me." Vāmanadeva. "Mahārāja Bali, you are so great personality. Give Me three feet of land." Then He covered the whole universe. So that is Kṛṣṇa's policy. Mā phaleṣu kadācana. Then what shall I do with the result? "Give Me." That is bhakti. He'll not immediately give it up, but Kṛṣṇa as a beggar, as Vāmanadeva, He's asking, "Give Me." If you are actually following Kṛṣṇa's instructions, you'll give it. The actual fact is that you become attached to Kṛṣṇa and detached to everything. But as you cannot do it immediately, this is a policy. The same policy, Vāmanadeva. He went to beg from Bali Mahārāja. So Bali Mahārāja was very munificent, he gave Him, "Yes, promise, whatever You want, I shall give." So He took everything.
Prabhupāda: That is the only business. Other business, they are subsidiary. They are not very important business. Why Kṛṣṇa understanding is important business? Because it will give you liberation from this material condition life. We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled.
Prabhupāda: This material activity only for the bodily comforts of life, that is not human civilization. Human civilization means the human being must know the supreme controller and the aim of life. The real fact is that God is there, the supreme controller, and we, living entities, we are His parts and parcels. As parts and parcels of God, we, being separated, we are suffering. An example can be given in this connection, just like a small child is the part and parcel of the body of the mother. So the child is happy when the child is on the lap of the mother. That means the part and the whole must live together. Then there is happiness. Otherwise, there is distress. The modern godless civilization is making the part and the whole separated. Therefore the whole condition is chaotic.
Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great. What is the conception of greatness. You accept me as a spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?
Prabhupāda: The meaning of this verse is that all living beings in the material world are born into delusion, overcome by the duality of desire and hate. So the fact is that the living entity, he desires to become great. Just like God is very great, so the living entity wants to imitate God, and therefore he comes in this material world, and he tries to become great and very powerful. This is desire. He tries to enjoy himself. And also icchā-dveṣa. He becomes envious of the Lord. Many people in the material world, they don't like to admit that God exists or that there is someone greater than themselves because they think themselves to be the greatest. This is the disease of material life. But the cure for this disease that we have to accept...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Sun rises from the east.
Indian man: But the fact is sun never rises. Sun is only there.
Prabhupāda: Sun never rises. Then where is the question that "Where is sun?" To your experience? If the sun rises, and if you say the sun never rises, if you know it, then what is your question?
Indian man: That is the question where realization is over.
Prabhupāda: What is your realization over? You see that the sun rises from the east. So everyone knows. Then where is the question? Anyone who has realized the sun never rises, then he has no question.
Prabhupāda: The apartments are already there. I am entering different apartments as I can pay for it. That is karma. According to my karma, I am sometimes residing in one apartment, in another apartment. This is going on. The Darwin's theory, the apartment is changing. That's not the fact. Fact is I am living entity. Tathā dehān..., Kṛṣṇa also says tathā dehāntara. Apartment antara. The spirit soul is the same. There is no change. That is spirit always. But according to his karma, he is going from this apartment, or this body, tathā dehān... That is the main point with the modern science and our Vedic knowledge. That is the main difference. They have no idea of the existence of the soul, and therefore say, "We are trying to make, we are trying to make." This rascaldom is going on. You cannot make soul. That is not possible. You cannot do anything. You cannot make even the body, what to speak of the soul.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You arrange, I will advise her. I am not proud, but I am the authority at the present moment. It is not pride. It is the fact! So let her take! Let her understand. The authority is there. And what is understanding? It is simple truth. Everyone can understand. Any child can understand. There is no difficulty. We make it difficult by our rascal interpretation. And that is very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So there must be somebody, original person. You are existing, you are coming from your father. Your father coming from his father, his father, his father... Now, who is the original father? There must be somebody. You may or may not know. So here is the answer: aham ādir hi devānām. So why don't you take? Where is the difficulty? If you are finding out who is the original person and the original person is presenting Himself and He is being accepted by great authorities—formerly Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, and later on Rāmānujācārya Madhvācārya, and all big, big stalwart ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu—so why don't you accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme original authority? What is the difficulty? The fact is very plain, but I'll not take it.
Prabhupāda: Why the child is crying twenty-four hours? So if one child is made to cry by his destiny, even in the presence of his father, mother, he has to cry. Nobody can make him happy. So this is called illusion, that "I am doing." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). A rascal, he thinks like that. But it is not the fact. The fact is prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ. His destiny or her destiny is to suffer. So even though father, mother... Suppose a rich man's son is sick. He has engaged good physician, good doctor. Does it mean that he will guarantee life? Then what is the principle? Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "It is not a fact that when the children are under the protection of father and mother, he's secure." Tvad-upekṣitānām: "If You neglect, that 'This child must cry; this child must die,' then even by the greatest care of the father and mother, he will die." So what is the use, saying that your duty...? Duty? That is māyā.
Hari-śauri: No one even understands actually what the problem is.
Prabhupāda: One does not understand—that does not mean the fact is not.
Hari-śauri: Yes. You said preaching is a thankless task.
Prabhupāda: Just see Jesus Christ-crucified. What was his fault? He was crucified. Of course, he was not crucified. Nobody can crucify him. But the people are so thankless...
Hari-śauri: That they wanted to do that.
Prabhupāda: Such a great personality, son of God. He wanted to deliver God consciousness. And return, he was crucified. We don't take Jesus Christ very insignificantly. We give him all honor. He's representative of God. He tried to preach according to the time, place, circumstances, country, people. Otherwise he is representative of God.
Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.
Ādi-keśava: And then, if the person strikes out at the parent, they say, "Just see how crazy he's become!" Just like with Vasu-gopāla, he took a stick and hit his mother across the head and ran out shouting the name of Nṛsiṁha-deva as they were holding him captive, so he could run away. And so they said, "Just see how crazy he's become that he hit his own mother." Of course, the fact is they didn't mention they locked him in the bathroom for thirty hours just before. They kept him in a little bathroom. They locked the door, put him in there for thirty hours. All they mentioned is that he come out and hit her on the head with some stick. So then they say, "Just see! He's acting against his parents." So then the judge says, "Oh, what can I do? Naturally the father loves the son."
Prabhupāda: So why don't you quote from our śāstra that "He is not father." Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt. Find out this verse.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't accept that God consciousness is...
Prabhupāda: So then... They may not accept, but the fact is there. You can challenge this, that body's machine. Apart from what is the energy that is moving the machine, but it is machine, we accept. So you prepare a machine like that. Where is that machine?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that "You also cannot."
Prabhupāda: I do not say that we are very good brain. We are servant of God. We have nothing to show, any brain. Our brain will be shown by our master. Our position is God. So we are not very much anxious to show our... But you are godless rascals. You want to show your brain. Show me machine. We have all accepted that supreme brain is Kṛṣṇa and we are servant. That is our position. We don't say that "Independent. There is no God."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). It is Kṛṣṇa's wonderful mercy that one can get guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya. Don't forget for a moment, that Kṛṣṇa is insignificant. He's always the most wonderful. He can do anything, whatever He likes. They have no such belief. They have no such idea. They are different. "We believe in this." Not believe. This is a fact! You believe or not believe, who cares for you? Fact is fact. So arrange. We shall go. (break) "...Kṛṣṇa is wonderful," that makes one perfect. You know that story? The cobbler and Nārada Muni? Hm? The cobbler believed, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." And Nārada Muni immediately certified, "Yes, your salvation, this life guaranteed." The cobbler has his conviction, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. Kṛṣṇa can draw an elephant through the hole of a needle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we don't engage in politics for the other nineteen hours. Of course, I mean, I never would have said anything, but the fact is that this is not the business of one who is eighty-four years old, to be the prime minister. It is better if he were to take up preaching Bhagavad-gītā. You gave that advice to Gandhi. He could do more good then.
Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the important shastric references in regard to developing an article on cheating?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the article in the current news weekly they quoted Prabhupāda as saying that nobody even understands one line of Bhagavad...
Prabhupāda: No, you also understand now that charge, how it is a fact. The fact is, as it is in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body. Then, if you have to change your body, then where is the question of nationalism? The first thing is mistake. And the nationalist leader, they are taking Bhagavad-gītā and jumping like dog on nationalism. Where is the question of nationalism? Answer me. Hm?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no real question because...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: So is that all right?
Mr. Myer: Really, the fact is that the excess of expenditure is only (indistinct) thousand. So what... There are two positions we have to take. One is to increase the revenue, and one is also to curb our expenditure. These are two ways.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Come here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says in order to make that money, you have to do two things. One is decrease the expenses, minimize the expenses, and also maximize collections. Right now...
Prabhupāda: Maximize collect... If you increase collection, that money comes, extra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, well that's why we're... That's the question that we've raised. This question that we've raised is due to that.
Prabhupāda: That is you are unable to, but the fact is that you are conditioned. You cannot go beyond that conditioned
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's accepted.
Prabhupāda: So we are also conditioned. But as far as possible we take description from Bhāgavata, try to. That is our... Suppose here is India, here is Los Angeles. You start from India, Los Angeles..., or India, you'll come to Los Angeles. And again return to India. Similarly you start from this again going.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That's possible if you can fly this way, underneath.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay. Kṛṣṇa-prasāda... (Bengali conversation) The real fact is that this jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life is food for another life. That is nature's way. But one has to pass through so many varieties of life, evolution. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. How many millions of years we'll take to evolve to become a human being. Then he gets chance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Payeche mānava janma, mano rañjanam alpa.(?) Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Emona janma, this janma, manuṣya-janma. And if we miss and don't get Kṛṣṇa, again glide down. Mām aprāpya mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Again you fall down. I'll eat you; you eat me. And the aquatic, 900,000 species, varieties of life. The same struggle, one fish eating another fish. Struggle within the water.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very pleasant, New York and other places. And the fact is that any time, if you really felt the need, we could rush back to India. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Jagannātha.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, if we celebrate... If you're in America for Janmāṣṭamī or Vyāsa-pūjā day, all the devotees in the whole country will come to wherever you are. Thousand, two thousand will come. It will be the most fantastic...
Prabhupāda: Śrī Kṛṣṇa caitanya rādhā kṛṣṇa nahe anya. Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya wants that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) And for Kṛṣṇa's grace. This new building, it may not divert attention from Deity worship.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all right, but this is the point, that this boy is not a replacement for this kavirāja. The fact is that Prabhupāda's condition being the way it is, we can't depend on the fact that Prabhupāda will continue to get exactly better as the kavirāja plans.
Bhakti-caru: Then what do you think the alternative should be?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The alternative is that either the kavirāja should stay here, or if we feel this kavirāja is actually giving beneficial help, then we should go with him. But I don't think that we should put ourselves in the hands of this junior man.
Prabhupāda: That is right conclusion.
| Page Title: | The fact is... (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 11 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=88, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 88 |