Prabhupāda: We have got life after death. That is a fact. Just like we are continuously in life, in this present life, you were a child, I was a child. Everyone of us were a child. That was a life. Then we became boy, then we became youth. Now we are, I am becoming old, and generally, when this body will be useless, I will have to take another body. This is the way. Unfortunately, the people, they do not believe in the next life. Although in every day affair they are experiencing that "I am eternal. I can remember the days of my childhood. I can remember the days of my youthhood, my boyhood, and I am still working. That means I am continuously there although my body in different ways have changed." So it is a fact that even after changing this body, you will have another body. Just like you are sitting in this room. Now, if you vacate this room, that does not mean you are finished. You have gone in some other room. So this is a great science. And people are neglecting this science. They have no, I mean to say, information.
That is the way (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is the system of disciple succession. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, Arjuna is surrendering. He was Kṛṣṇa's friend. Why he surrendered himself, "I am your disciple." You see in the Bhagavad-gītā. He had no necessity. He was personal friend, talking, sitting, eating together. Still, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master. So that is the way. There is a system to understand. It is specifically mentioned, śiṣyas te 'ham. "I am your disciple now." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). "You kindly instruct me." And then He began teaching Bhagavad-gītā. Unless one becomes a śiṣya, or disciple, it is prohibited, not to instruct. Not to inst... That instruction is useless. That is the system. We are instructing in the class because there are few disciples who have taken vow to learn from me. Otherwise, I have no business to teach the public. The public may come. But actual interest is to teach my disciples. But that is secondary.
Prabhupāda: So śaśan ke adhikārī means they should be punished. (laughs) Punished means, just like dhol, when the, I mean to say, sound is not very hard, dag-dag, if you beat it on the border, then it comes to be nice tune. Similarly, paśu, animals, if you request, "My dear dog, please do not go there." Hut! (laughter) "No, my dear dog." Hut! This is the way.(?) Similarly, woman. If you become lenient, then she will be troublesome. So in India still, in villages, whenever there is some quarrel between husband wife, the husband beats and she is tamed. (laughs) In civilized society, "Oh, you have done this?" Immediately some criminal case. But in uncivilized society they don't care for court or civilized way of... Kicharī. (prasādam being served)
Rayarama: Swamiji, Janārdana told me that from Vedic sources, you drew some conclusion that there are different universes visible? The stars are different universes? What is that?
Prabhupāda: That is, that is, I mean to say, misunderstanding. Authority we have to. The child has to accept authority. Always ask mother what is this father, what is this...? Why? That is the beginning: ask, ask, ask. That is the way of acquiring knowledge. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa... The Vedic injunction is there, if you want to understand that science, you must to go to guru.
Allen Ginsberg: But do you understand your previous lives from the descriptions in authoritative texts, or from any introspective recollection...
Prabhupāda: No, we have to corroborate.
Allen Ginsberg: ...of your own?
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I think that "I came here with no money, and now I am spending so much money in traveling." (laughter) Aeroplanes. As soon as I get on aeroplane, immediately two hundred dollars. And not only I am, my assistant also. So Kṛṣṇa will provide. That doesn't matter.
Hayagrīva: This is the way, I mean, you want it. I don't quite understand...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think... No... You see, if we actually serious about developing this place, then we must do propaganda work outside also. Not only inside management, but outside also, we should draw the sympathy of the people. Don't you think it is necessary?
Hayagrīva: It's necessary.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you again become stool worms.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: So suppose we accept such statement without any argument. That is the way of Vedic understanding. Vedic understanding means you have to accept whatever is stated in the Vedas without any argument.
Prof. Kotovsky: So forget about Vedas. Our approach is we don't believe in anything without argument. We can believe only on anything based on argument.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that...
Prof. Kotovsky: Here is the basic...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is allowed.
Prof. Kotovsky: ...projecting (?).
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So he became so strong that when he was traveling in the state, everyone was trembling. So very strong king. In this way, when he became too much powerful, then he began to preach atheism. That is the way. The rākṣasī, the demonic way is there. If a demon becomes powerful—just like nowadays it is going on—somehow or other if somebody becomes powerful, he doesn't care for the śāstric injunction or religion or God. They don't care for it. Just like there are many instances, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, like that. So he also became like that. Then he began to order
- na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ
- na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit
- iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ
- bherī-ghoṣeṇa sarvaśaḥ
- (SB 4.14.6)
By bugle announcement. In your country, I do not know, maybe. It is here in India still existing that if some public announcement has to be done, one takes a drum or bugle, he stands in one place and bugles or beats the drum, people when gathered they announce something that "This will be done. This is the order of the king or the state." Is there any such system in England?
Prabhupāda: Śruti means Vedas. Pramāṇam means evidence. According to Indian system... There are two persons talking, arguing, but the person who can give Vedic evidence, he is victorious. That's all. That is the system. Just like in law court two lawyers are fighting, but the lawyer who is giving evidences from the lawbook, he is accepted by the judge. And therefore, generally you will find, whenever we speak something, we give evidence from the śāstra in Sanskrit, in all our books. That is the way of proving that whatever I am speaking, it is fact. In the Bhāgavata it is already stated, lavaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. Keśa means hair. To keep long, long hair will be the practice of people because they will think by keeping long hair they look very beautiful. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Five thousand years this prediction is there: "In this Kali-yuga people will keep long hair, and..., because that will be appreciated, that a man keeping long hair is very beautiful."
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. That should be the attitude. That is the way of understanding. Upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Those who are Tattva-darśiḥ, those who have seen the truth, we have to take knowledge from them. That is the direction in the Bhagavad-gītā, not from the third-class men. One who has seen, one who has known, you have to take knowledge from him, tattva-darśiḥ. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You have to understand by surrendering, by rendering service and by question, three things. You cannot question simply. There must be service and surrender; then question will be nice. And if all of a sudden you come and question, that answer will not be sufficient. So I am drinking this water because there is taste. At this time, if you can give me some other juice, I'll not like. I'll like to take, drink water, because there is particular taste that will satisfy my thirst. That thirst-quenching taste is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Everything is known, can be known, from authorized source of knowledge. A child does not know what is this. He asks father, "Father, what is this?" The father explains, "My dear boy, this is dictaphone. When I speak, it records." Childlike, you see? That is the way of knowledge. If you do not know God, you must approach a person who knows God. There is knowledge. There is no difficulty.
John Fahey: But I went to church, and I still don't know.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He went to church and he could not find out.
Prabhupāda: That may be.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have followed somebody at least, standard.
John Fahey: Oh, yeah, people I heard.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the way of learning what is God. The main business is that one must know God. It is not that because I approach some person and he did not know, he could give me the right knowledge of God, then I give up this idea of knowing God. No. That will not..., that is not good for human life. Then you remain animal. I might have been cheated or I might not have approached the proper person, but that does not mean that I can stop that idea. That is not... In another place it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21).
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the father of the saṅkīrtana movement. Saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ. This is the statement in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This Lord, incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, is worshiped by saṅkīrtana yajña, and those who are intelligent, sumedhasaḥ, sharp brain, they worship this Lord by saṅkīrtana. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. And, therefore, we worship Him with saṅkīrtana. This picture, He is being worshiped by saṅkīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti (SB 11.5.32). And they are all big men Śrī Advaita, Śrī Gadādhara, Śrīvāsa, and others, followers. That is the proof. Kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇam, He is fair complexioned, but He is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-varṇam iti, He is describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. These are the statement, and He is doing exactly the same thing. His accepting sannyāsa order is also mentioned in the śāstra. So everything we have to accept through three channels: sādhu, śāstra, guru. Saintly person, they you should accept; guru you should accept; and it must be mentioned in the śāstra. Guru cannot manufacture something. He must quote from the śāstra and then tell to his disciple. So disciple, as soon as he receives a message from guru corroborated by the śāstra, then he should take it as fact. This is the way. Why there should be any more doubt? What is your argument?
Prabhupāda: ...and peach, they are natural products from the jungle. Nobody goes to manufacture, automatically comes out. But when they are combined together, it is nectarean. None of them is manufactured by man, either this honey or the strawberry or the pineapple. Given by God. So in every step, you can perceive the hands of God. Every step. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This nice taste you cannot create by any chemical combination. It is not possible. Because God's hand is there, it has become so tasteful drink. Man cannot make. This flower, man cannot make. This fruit... Nothing man can make. This nice flower stick, how nicely it is made. So everything you can perceive the hands of God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When you perceive the hands of God, presence of God, presence of the energy of God, then you become happy. That is the way of happiness. In every step of life, you feel the hands of God. We are teaching..., this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means how to perceive, realize presence of God in everything.
Prabhupāda: Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvaṁ (SB 10.14.29). One can understand the truth by the grace of... So searching after divine means we must search after the grace of the divine. Just like a very big man, just like President Nixon. So I am speculating that President Nixon is like that, like that, like this, his function is like that, he eats like this, he sleeps like this. That is speculation. But if I hear directly from President Nixon or his representative, very confidential representative, then it is perfect knowledge. I cannot speculate to know about President Nixon by my imperfect senses. I must know about President Nixon when he speaks personally about himself or his personal associate speaks about. That is the way.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of taking milk. And this masala, it does not taste good. In India, especially in Northern India, Punjab, they will take at night, milk, (indistinct). No other things. They, all business men, the Marwari society, they'll take food before evening and then again they work. Then after ten they will come home and take little milk and go rest. (pause) So foundation committee is being established in Bombay making her the president of the trust. Then Giriraja will have no difficulty.
Devotee: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: They'll contribute. And if she canvasses, she can collect lakhs.
Devotee: But one thing is, if Giriraja takes advantage and begins preaching in her school daily... She's invited him, open invitation.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti.
Prabhupāda: Now, the whole creation is there. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). On account of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, which is called brahmajyoti... Just like on account of the sunshine, the whole universe is existing. So similarly, there is a shine, bodily shining, what is called brahmajyoti. So when the brahmajyoti is there, then innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). When the effulgence, brahmajyoti, is there, innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe. Koṭi, innumerable. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭisv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). And in each universe is created with innumerable number of planets. And each planet has got different atmosphere. Now the whole universe is described. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Yasya prabhā. The beginning: "Whose effulgence has created." That means simultaneously you praise His creation; at the same time, you get the universal knowledge how many universes are there, how they are situated, what is the atmosphere, everything. You get a glimpse of idea at the same time. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. This is the way.
Prabhupāda: And that, that faith becomes stronger by association; by association of the devotees, the faith becomes stronger. And the more your faith becomes stronger, you make progress. This is the way. Progress means the same faith becoming stronger, stronger, strongest. The same faith. The principle is the same, Kṛṣṇa. Then you know more about Kṛṣṇa. Then you become more faithful.
Revatīnandana: Is this faithfulness, is it a product of the mode of goodness?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Goodness helps. But not... Unless you take it seriously... Then it depends upon the person. Even if he's not in goodness... That, just like all these European and Americans. They were not in goodness. They were on the platform of ignorance. But still, they, because they took it, therefore they are coming, progressively.
Prabhupāda: No. That also... Therefore it is called sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya. Three things there are for knowledge. Sādhu, saintly person; śāstra, scripture; and guru. So one statement we have to corroborate with other statement. If you accept somebody as guru, then you have to corroborate it whether śāstra says that he is guru or any saintly person says that he is guru. This is the way. Similarly, when you take a scripture, you have to know it from the spiritual master, whether that is actually scripture, whether it is accepted by the saintly person. Sādhu. Similarly sādhu also, whether guru says, "Yes, he is sādhu." Whether śāstra says, "Yes, he is sādhu." There are three things, sādhu-śāstra-guru. So to accept one, you have to take the opinion of the other two. Then you'll get the right way. Just like who is a guru? That is stated in the śāstras. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Śāstra says, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "One must approach a guru."
Prabhupāda: Mahā-prasāda, the foodstuff offered to the Deity, this is not ordinary foodstuff. Mahā-prasāde govinde. And to the Lord. Mahā-prasāde govinde nāma-brahmaṇi. "And in the holy name of the Lord." Svalpa-puṇyavatāṁ rājan viśvāso naiva jāyate. "Those who are less pious, they cannot have faith in these things." So anyone who is accepting prasādam as grace of God, he must be considered as very pious. This is the way. So you can take it.
Lord Brockway: Thank you.
Śyāmasundara: Shall I move this closer?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, you have made so nice preparations.
Lord Brockway: And you do not eat yet?
Śyāmasundara: No, they're bringing. (sounds of eating)
Prabhupāda: She has prepared?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, I think so.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. (Break)
Prabhupāda: That is our Vedic evidence. Whenever we speak something, immediately quote from Vedas. This is our process. If it is accepted by the Vedic process, then it is perfect. Just like in the law court. You are lawyer. You are arguing. When you quote from a judgement, previous judgement, it is accepted. Similarly, when you give authoritative statement support of your talking, then it is perfect. That is the way. Otherwise, what for these books are there? If it is mental speculation what is the use of these books? But as soon as we speak something, we immediately support by quoting from Vedic literature. And that is perfect. And now you have to possess little knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, how Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa is giving example side, by side. Yathā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13).
Prabhupāda: That is special favor. In the beginning I was thinking, "Now my godbrothers, they have taken sannyāsa. They are begging from door to door. Why shall I beg? Let me earn money and start Kṛṣṇa consciousness." But that never happened. So I had to... I was obliged to take the dress of my godbrothers and preach, instead of earning money. Yes. Some astrologer told me that I should have been a man like a Birla. And I got all those chances in the chemical line, to become... Now I am bigger than Birla. That's all right. But even in business field, there were signs that in money things... I got so many good chances. But everything... Dr. Karttika Candra Bose he appreciated my activities, "Very intelligent boy." He certified to my father-in-law. This is the way of becoming rich man.
Śyāmasundara: What happened?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But you cannot assimilate all the answers in one day. That is not possible. You see. You have many questions, but ask in many days, not in one day. Otherwise you will get indigestion. (laughter) You will not be able to... Simply you go on questioning, questioning, and don't take anything. That is no use. Take. Make one question. Try to understand. Adopt it in life. Then make another question. Don't take all the answers at a time and become suffering in dysentery. No. (laughter) Don't do that. That's alright. You cannot take one month's food in one hour. Can you take? So that's alright. Gradually. Your questions are nice, but don't take the answers all in a day. That will be not good. If you understand very easily, then you will forget very easily.
Guest (2): That is natural. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Natural, you see. If you understand little with difficulty, then you will forget also with difficulty. This is the way. So any other question? After this question-answer? (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, because he learned from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam, na jāyate na mriyate vā..., na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So we are... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means you are taking what Kṛṣṇa says. Therefore... (break) And then you judge in your own way, you'll find, "Yes, it's all right." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. At the present moment, because your, these blunt eyes cannot see the soul, you have to learn it by appreciation. Avagama. It is called avagama.(?) Appreciation. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that tad viddhi, that, that thing which is spreading consciousness, that is soul. Now you can perceive there must be something which is now absent, otherwise why there is no consciousness? Where is the difficulty? If you do not see, you can't understand it. Just like the same example, when good aroma is carried. So somebody says, "This good aroma is coming because the air passing through a flower garden, therefore this aroma." Now this is a fact, but you cannot see the aroma or the air. But you hear from an experienced man. That is the way of understanding which is beyond your sense perception.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the judge. Therefore we quote from Vedic literatures. As soon as we speak something, immediately quote Vedic literature. That is the way.
Karandhara: The trouble is there are so many phony gurus and śāstras.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Karandhara: There are so many misrepresentations.
Prabhupāda: Because their folly is... They therefore do not take authority. Otherwise they'll be exposed. Yes. śāstra-cakṣusā. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). These are the injunctions. (dog barks) Yes, come on. We have got your punishment. So there is an argument: pala bonatu hoya (?). "I'm not afraid of you. Although I'm, I'm going away, I'm not afraid of you. (laughter) Don't think that I am afraid of you."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vijñāna. Yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Jñānaṁ parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Is it not? Jñānaṁ me... "My knowledge is very confidential and it is full of science." Jñānaṁ parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. And in the Bhagavad-gītā there is said, "Knowing this knowledge..." Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. In the Vedas it is said, kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. So this is the way. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything will be known. (break) ...guhyaṁ pavitraṁ paramam idam. Eh? Bhagavad-gītā. Rāja-vidyā, the knowledge, the king of knowledge. (break)
Hanumān: Without your mercy, there's no way out of the dream of material life.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Yes. (pause) (break)
Prabhupāda: That is... That we also accept.
Dr. Patel: And that is the way I was... I mean, I love you, treat you as such and worship you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: And if you think it is any other form, I have no objection, whatever bhāva you may call it. What is the matter?
Prabhupāda: No, I am speaking on the principle of śāstra. śānta-bhakta, dāsya-bhakta, sākhya-bhakta, vātsalya-bhakta, mādhurya-bhakta.
Dr. Patel: You see, I can...
Prabhupāda: Then? Similarly, one who is always merged in Kṛṣṇa thought, his body is not material.
Dr. Patel: That way you say.
Prabhupāda: Yes! Yes, that is the way.
Dr. Patel: Now I understand.
Prabhupāda: Because his material body is not working. That is stopped. He's working simply spiritually. Therefore his body is spiritual. The same example: it has become so hot, red-hot, that it is no more working as iron rod. It is working as fire.
Dr. Patel: Because it burns anybody who touches it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: So guru also does the same thing.
Prabhupāda: This is the Vedic injunction. You cannot do anything without abiding the orders of spiritual master. That is surrender. How nice water it is. (break) And there are many thousands, you'll find. And we are thinking, "Oh, if I go away, who will feed my son? Who will feed my daughter?" He'll never think that "If so many animals are fed by the Supreme," eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān, "He's supplying all the necessity why not for me or for my other children?" It is māyā that one thinks that "Without me...," Just like Gandhi was thinking. Unless he was killed... He was always thinking, "Without me, India will be spoiled." India will be spoiled. It was spoiled. Therefore you wanted sva-rājya... And after his death, it is also spoiled. So India's karma will have to suffer, either Gandhi's there or not there. Prakṛteḥ kriya... Prakṛteḥ: Everything is being done by the material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ, by, dictated by different modes of nature. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate: (BG 3.27) The rascal, being bewildered by, he's thinking, "Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director!" So I requested Gandhi, "Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll be killed. That's all. This is the way. Going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya. The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That's all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam.
Dr. Patel: Avidhi-pūrvakam. But also, still, they are worshiping God.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone is part and parcel of God, but everyone is not God. That is the way. That any hole of my body, that is my body. But when food is to be taken, it is only this, not another, other hole. That is the way. (break) ...and if you are saying like that... Just like... Here... When you...
Dr. Patel: But it is of the... is doing that to you also. Why do you worry about it?
Prabhupāda: No, no. When the...
Dr. Patel: We can give it in the vein also.
Prabhupāda: No, no. (laughter.) That is not the way. That is avidhi-pūrvakam.
Dr. Patel: No... That is the way. You see, I am trying to... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is nice.
Dr. Patel: Sometimes you say nice, and sometimes you also fire me. So what this, what I am to understand about our relationship?
Prabhupāda: You should be fired always. (laughter) But if I do not say sometimes nice, then it will be dangerous.
Dr. Patel: Then why you'll understand that this is all humbug?
Bhāgavata: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you can tell us the qualifications of guru and the qualifications of disciple?
Prabhupāda: Allowed for the rascals and fools.
Dr. Patel: Fools, but we are not rascals. So he...
Prabhupāda: You cannot reject the rascals and fools. That is the way.
Dr. Patel: But he is rejecting rascals and fools.
Prabhupāda: Gradually, gradually. Just like...
Dr. Patel: As a Vaiṣṇava we can't tolerate meat.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but...
Dr. Patel: I can...
Prabhupāda: ...you cannot...
Prabhupāda: Let me explain it. Let me explain it. Suppose you are ordered by the judge that you should be hanged. So it is certainly his creation, your hanging. But is the judge enemy of you that he has ordered you to be hanged? You have created such thing that you should be hanged. This is the answer. (break) ...situation that you must be hanged. But the order must come from the judge. So externally the judge is hanging you. But actually he's not hanging you. You are hanging yourself. This is the way. (break) ...hanged, there is no choice. Is it not? But still, you created the position of being hanged. That is the position. When the judge has ordered that "He should be hanged," there is no more choice. But who has created this situation?
Dr. Patel: No, no, no. We are always like that. We are in the... (break)
Prabhupāda: Yeah, then we shall accept. Sādhu-śāstra-guru-vākya tinete karīyā aikya. Śāstra will say, and guru will say, "Yes, it is rightly said." Saintly person also will accept. Just like Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Arjuna. Paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān. He immediately mentioned that "Such sage, authorities, accept. The śāstra says." Not that because Kṛṣṇa was His friend, he accepted blindly. No. That is corroboration. Whether it is mentioned in the śāstras, whether other saintly persons... Just like there are so many avatāras, but we have got our ācārya-sampradāya, Rāmānuja, Yamunācārya. Whether they are accepting? Not a third class man accepted, and it is accepted. The ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. This is the way of accepting. (break) Everyone will create his authorities, and unlimited imitation of God will come into existence, and people will be diverted from the reality. (break)
Prabhupāda: But you do your business. You don't follow them. That's all. You remain perfect. There are many imperfects, admitting, but you try to remain perfect so that they may see you, your behavior, and they may follow you. If everyone is sincere in his activity, then where is the question? The society means if I am defective, I am seeing that you are doing nicely, so I will be ashamed. That is also teaching. Actually that should be the practice. If I cannot finish my sixteen rounds due to some business, then next day I must finish it. If you say that "Next day also, I am busy," then you should forego your eating and sleeping and finish it. That is the way. You are so busy, but you do not forget your eating and sleeping. That is cheating. If you are so busy that you forget your eating and sleeping, then I can consider that you are very busy. But you do not forget this portion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should be such qualified that people will come to consult you, to take your advice, and... That is the way. (break) ...one after another. Just like if you are a qualified lawyer, when one has difficulty, he comes, consults you, what to do. If you are a qualified physician, then people will come to consult you. So you become qualified, ideal; people will come. Otherwise who will care for you? (break) ...principles. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating and chanting. These five things only, if you strictly remain on these principles, see how you are respectable. Immediately you'll be respected. Is it not?
Akṣayānanda: Everyone knows that it should be done.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...says, ātma-māyayā. Ātma-māyayā, His own energy. So the material energy and the spiritual, both of them, are His energy. So even if He appears in a material body, it does not act as material body. It act as spiritual body. Just like same example: The expert electrician, he can turn the refrigerator into heater. Is it not? That is the way. Hare Kṛṣṇa. For Him there is nothing, no distinction, because He is absolute. Similarly, to take the side of the devotee and to kill the enemy of Kṛṣṇa, they are all the same.
Brahmānanda: Inside of the devotee?
Prabhupāda: Or to kill the demon, that is His mercy. Both of them. It is not that materially, as we think, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is taking side of this man and killing this man." No. Still, He is neutral, absolute.
Brahmānanda: The sahajiyās, they don't know that.
Prabhupāda: And this is the position of the preacher. Even if you are disappointed, you should not stop your preaching. You should go on with your business.
Girirāja: "He told them that they should not be sorry for being refused by the brāhmaṇas. Because that is the way of begging. He convinced them that while one is engaged in collecting or begging, one should not think that he will be successful everywhere. He may be unsuccessful in some places but that should not be cause for disappointment."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...tama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa. Bhāṇḍa. It is a pot of poison. Karma-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa process and the jñāna-kāṇḍa process, karmīs and the jñānīs... Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa: "Both of them are poison pots." Jñāna-kāṇḍa also.
Prabhupāda: We do not kill plants also. We take... Of course, by nature's way some living entity is the food for another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That is the nature's way. But if you give that argument, then I can say, "Why you are killing cows? Why don't you kill your own children?" If that is the way, that "Because I have to eat some animal," so why go outside? Just inside the family there are so many animals. You can kill them and eat. there must be discretion. Apart from this point of view, we Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we do not kill even a plant because, Kṛṣṇa says-find out this-patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Yogeśvara: (translating) ...jīvo jīvasya jīvanam (French)...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And mother is the only evidence. That's all. Similarly, acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkeṇa yojayet (?). Śāstra says that "What is beyond your experience, you don't argue on that point." You go to the authority and take it. Why you should you argue? It is beyond your experience. Therefore you must find out who can give you the experience. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). But don't stop there, that "It is beyond my experience; therefore I should not have experience." This is foolishness. If it is beyond your experience, then go to a person who has got experience and take from him. Suppose if I am in this park. I do not know which way to go. It is beyond my experience. Then I ask one gentleman, "Where shall I go?" He'll say, "Please go this way." This is the way. Why should you stop and think others also, that God is beyond his experience also? Why? It may be beyond your experience, but unless you go to a person who has got actually experience, how can you get the experience? (pause)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way of understanding. And Kṛṣṇa says, the authority, that "This is the way." It is not that I have manufactured some philosophy. No. The most powerful authority, He says. So where is the position to deny it? Who can deny it, Kṛṣṇa's statement? If somebody denies, then he is a rascal. That's all. Therefore we say that we have no difficulty to find out a rascal. As soon as one denies this, Kṛṣṇa's statement, he is a rascal. That's it. Anyone who does not accept the transmigration of the soul, he is a rascal, that's all, immediately. So easily understood, and still they will not understand. What is the possible objection?
Satsvarūpa: Well, that example can be understood, but for the materialist, he doesn't see how it applies to afterlife, one takes another body.
Prabhupāda: Why, why he does not?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, that is not. That is not. Just like even in ordinary business, if you transact business in the stock association, you get good business. And outside the stock association you don't get. Because association is there, there are many purchaser and many seller. So if you have to sell, you get immediate purchaser. And if you have to purchase, there is immediate seller. That is... Therefore the stock exchange is there. That is the way, that if we live together in the stock exchange of devotional service, then you can help me; I can help you. So our business will go on nicely. And outside the market, you can live three hundred miles away from the stock exchange. You will not get so many business. Like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you don't follow the instruction of guru, then you are fallen down immediately. That is the way. Otherwise why you sing, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. It is my duty to satisfy guru. Otherwise I am nowhere. So if you prefer to be nowhere, then you disobey as you like. But if you want to be steady in your position, then you have to follow strictly the instruction of guru.
Devotee (1): We can understand all of your instructions simply by reading your books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The ātmā and Paramātmā, Paramātmā. As I was speaking, nityo nityānām. We are all nityas, eternal, but there is one chief nitya. Just like leader. Everywhere we go, we have got a leader. Now, this, your Mexico state, there is a president. You cannot avoid it. In your college there is principal. There must be a leader. Similarly, the whole thing taken together, there must be one leader. You have to speak from experience that in your physical department or in your religious department there is a chief, leader, professor. Or you may be. But that is the way. Therefore Vedic information is that we are eternal, but there is another eternal who is chief eternal. That is God. He is eternal; we are also eternal. Then what is difference? The difference is that eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān: "That one eternal, chief eternal, He is maintaining all the subordinate eternals." So both eternals are eternal and... The purpose is pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to... Just like mother has seen the father. So her knowledge is perfect. But I have not seen my father. Because before my birth there was father, I do not know who is my father. The mother has seen the father. So you have to approach such a person who has seen the truth. That is the way of... Now you have to find out a person who has seen the transcendence and receive knowledge of transcendence from him. Then it is perfect.
Professor: (Spanish) What I mean is that, you know. We are all imperfect because we are imperfect. Right? So how can a master, a person who really understands or who claims to really understand be able to know perfection, to see the truth, how can he with his imperfect senses...
Prabhupāda: You are right, you are right.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our... We know that he is a fool, but we have to present in a different way. We shall say that "There is nobody as learned as you are." In this way just make him puffed up, and then you say humbly, "My only humble request is that whatever you have learned, please forget. Now you try to understand Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That's all." This is the different way of calling him, that "Whatever you have learned, this is all rubbish." We simply say, "Kindly forget them. Now you turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." This is the way Prabhodānanda Sarasvatī taught us. You flatter him, "Sir, I have got one request." Flatter him like anything, falling down on his leg and becoming humble and... "Sir, I have got one request." "What is that?" "You are very learned scholar. But kindly forget them, and you try to turn your attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu." He will not be angry. Then, if he turns his attention to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then naturally he will forget all rubbish things.
Prabhupāda: This is the way. The purport?
Paramahaṁsa: "This verse is a reply to Arjuna's third question: What is the means of attaining to the transcendental position?"
Prabhupāda: So everything is explained. One has to learn it very carefully.
Young man: If one does not lose one's identity when one is returned to the Godhead, what is the nature of the relationship?
Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. You read any book; you learn first of all about the author, his life, his everything.
Indian man: Sometimes we need not...
Prabhupāda: No, it is needed. It is needed. No, that is the way.
Indian man: We need not approach the guru. What he speaks that is enough sometimes.
Prabhupāda: No, that is the way. You read any book. You try to understand, to know something about the author. That is natural.
Prabhupāda: You may have a big coat or small coat, overcoat, the form is the same. But for convenience (indistinct) or small coat. This has been, body has been, described as the dress so the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can I deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can I deny this argument? You cannot say formless. Maybe you cannot see, that is the way, but the person must be form. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, "Arjuna, you and Me and all these persons who are here, they are existing like that in the past, they are now existing, and (indistinct), they will always be (indistinct)."
Prabhupāda: Offenseless chanting, that will purify. That is the easiest process, given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Ceto-da...(?) He first of all recommends cleansing the heart. And as soon as your heart is cleansed, then you become immediately purified. This is the way. So be always engaged, either in chanting or reading or preaching. Then it will be clarified.
Rūpānuga: It is actually a very easy process.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the easiest process. There is no secondary process. Chanting. And it is recommended by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the authority, param vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So many things will happen.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of people, one may become interested about what is the perfection of life." They do not want. "And out of such millions of persons," yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), "who was trying for perfection of life, out of many millions of them, one can understand Me, Kṛṣṇa." māyā is so strong. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for ordinary person. Most fortunate, bhāgyavān jīva... Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpaya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). All these living entities, wandering throughout the universe... Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite. If one gets the chance of guru and Kṛṣṇa, then he can understand. And if still one argues, then he's again misfortunate. Therefore Kṛṣṇa demands, "You rascal, don't argue! Surrender!" Sarva-dharmān parityaja mām... That is the way. He commands.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest (3): ...try to convince them: No, that is false and this is the way.
Prabhupāda: No, their Ramakrishna Mission allurement is that daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva and hospital. That is their only allurement. They have no program. Nobody is attracted by their philosophy. And what philosophy they have got? Never mind. We are not concerned with them.
Madhudviṣa: When we were in Māyāpur, I had the idea of...
Prabhupāda: Aiye (Hindi) (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Guest (4) (Indian man): Purī Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of... They have discovered this streptomycin, for tuberculosis, that if one takes too many injections of streptomycin, then it does not act.
Devotee: He becomes immune.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: So as a result of the vaccine they created a worse type of influenza, and they have nothing to counteract that worse type. So now they have to invent another type.
Prabhupāda: You are seeing this green. If you interpret, "It is not green; it is white," what is this? Can you interpret like that? It is green, and "No, in my interpretation it is white. What you are seeing, it is not actual seeing." You can go on saying like that. But I am an ordinary man. Why shall I take it white? It is green. That's all.
Paramahaṁsa: But that is the way of great writing, to write in symbolism. That is...
Amogha: Great literary works are done in that way.
Paramahaṁsa: They call it "writing between the lines." There's some hidden meaning. Therefore it is very deep.
Prabhupāda: You live with us and you will become pure devotee. They are pure devotees. You live with them and do whatever they are doing, their examples, and you will become pure devotee. Just like in a workshop, if you admit yourself without any knowledge, if you work with the workshop man, gradually you will learn how to work. It is not difficult. Formerly this was the custom in India, that when somebody sends his son to any workshop or any shopkeeper without any pay, so gradually he learns. And the master says, "Now I engage you with some pay." That is the way. Sataṁ prasaṅgāt. By living with devotees, you'll learn devotion. So if you are serious, you are welcome. You can live with us and behave according to the other devotees. Then he's a...
Prabhupāda: Then he should try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, instead of sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is the minimum. Otherwise Haridāsa Ṭhākura was 300,000. So you have to increase. That is the only remedy. If one has got determination, he will make progress without any trouble. That determination is very difficult, that determination, "I must be Kṛṣṇa conscious fully." That determination. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So they have asked to the central government, federal government, help?
Paramahaṁsa: In New York? Yes, they asked from the President, President Ford.
Prabhupāda: That is federal government.
Śrutakīrti: You will advance to the other stages.
Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is working hard, but he will never become rich, then what is the use? Working hard means one must become rich. But if he does not become rich, simply working hard, then what is the use? Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You must follow the regulative principles. Sato vṛtteḥ. This is your honesty, and sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), this can be done-association with devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati: "This is the way of increasing devotional service." (end)
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to believe only. You have to accept what Bhāgavata says. That is your business. Not to try to make an experiment. That is not possible. It is already experimented, and the mature knowledge is stated there. You have to accept, that's all. Śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti means Vedas. Evidence... Vedic literature there are three kinds of evidences. The most powerful evidence is śruti. If it is stated in the Vedas, that is first-class evidence. Therefore whatever we say, immediately quote some Vedic version, that is the way of understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, Vyāsadeva says, Parāśara says, that's all. We don't require much proof. This is the first-class proof, when you find the statement corroborated by the Vedas. And śruti, smṛti. Smṛti means literature written according to the Vedic version. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi (Brs. 1.2.101). Purāṇādi is itihāsa, history. And another pramāṇa is anumāna. And anumāna means "by right person." Thinking that it may be like this, anumāna. That is called anumāna.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. If nighttime it rains and daytime there is sunshine, then the land becomes very fertile to produce. Yes. There is a common saying in Bengal, dine jal rātr e tā rā sei janme sukha dhā rā.(?) If it rains heavily during daytime and at night you see the stars, then you should know there will be scarcity of rain. There will be scarcity of rain and scarcity of food grains. Best thing is at night there must be heavy rain, and daytime, there should be sunshine. Then the field will be very fertile.
Hari-śauri: Is the irregularity in the weather and...
Prabhupāda: That is due to sinful life.
Hari-śauri: So if we increase the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement...
Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good. They are not understanding; still, you have to go. Then Kṛṣṇa will take that "He is laboring so hard for My sake." Never mind he is successful. It doesn't matter. But you are working hard for Kṛṣṇa. That is noted down. So our business is to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Whether one man is converted or not converted, that is not our business. We shall try our best. But Kṛṣṇa must see that I am giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is wanted. Not that you have to judge that you have approached so many men; nobody became Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: No, you do not do that. You do not do that. You will see Dr. Radhakrishnan says. When this, he is making comment on it, he said, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto māṁ namaskuru, and Dr. Radha..., he says "not to Kṛṣṇa." How he is misleading people! He is a great scholar, and he says "It is not to Kṛṣṇa, to the person." Just see. This dishonesty is going on. What right he has got to say like that? Did He, did He, Kṛṣṇa, left His Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by a rascal, "Not to Kṛṣṇa"? This is rascaldom. You cannot say. You must say what Kṛṣṇa says, if you take Bhagavad-gītā. But if you have got a different views, then you write your own book. Present, as many others philosophers are doing. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with me. That's all right. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. You cannot become a big philosopher unless you have got a different views. That is the way. If I don't defy you, then I am not a big philosopher.
Prabhupāda: That is the way. It is going on. So nāsau munir yasya... So if I take the opinion of one muni and another muni, another muni, then where is the real view? Therefore it is said mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, what they have done, we have to follow that. So our principle is that, that we are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mahājana, a great personality. Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. You follow some mahājana, great personality. Don't take opinion, this man, that man, this man, this man. Then you will be bewildered. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So you have to follow one great personality, ācārya. That is also recommended in the Bhā... ācāryopāsanam, following the ācārya. So we have got recognized ācārya, just like you said, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Or Śaṅkarācārya even. You follow one ācārya, like Christians, they follow Christ, ācārya.
Prabhupāda: So the seeing of the child and seeing of the father is different. In our childhood we were thinking that in the gramophone box there is a man. And the fan there is a ghost. (laughter) I remember quite. "How these records are being played? There must be one man. He is singing." And the electric fan was running, I was thinking there is some ghost. This is the way.
Madhudviṣa: The demons are trying to go to the heavenly planets by building their skyscrapers higher and higher.
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply propaganda. They are not going. Now the Russian scientist and American scientist are combined. Because both of them thieves, so one thief is asking, "Don't expose me. I will not expose you, so that our business will go on." This is the way. "Let us combine together and cheat these rascals, and otherwise, if you expose me, then I will expose you. Then our business will stop."
Devotee: They are cooperating.
Prabhupāda: Cooperating. Thief, thief's cooperation.
Devotee: In the Bhāgavatam in Canto Two, it's mentioned here that without discrimination both the demigods and the demons worship the Lord as devotees in the Lord's personal abode. I was wondering if you could explain how this is possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the explanation of the śāstra. Those who are devotees... You can see the devotees, they are gods, demigods. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. Viṣṇu-bhakta, those who are devotees of Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava, they are demigods. So why do you say we do not see the demigods?
Prabhupāda: To get impetus to go back to home, back to Godhead. To come to Australia we get impetus to go to hell. (laughter) (break) Hell means anywhere where material happiness is given more importance. Mahat-sevāṁ dvā r a m āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi... In the western countries and..., they are simply busy in sense gratification. So that is the way of hell. (break)
Devotee 5: ...said that "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God."
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 5: You have said, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God." Well, um, what I want to know is, is not God eternal, therefore how was there a beginning? And if the beginning was the word, who was it spoken by or how was it spoken if it was the beginning?
Prabhupāda: I also like. (laughter) Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. This is essential, to be anxious to be associated with the spiritual master. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). That is the statement of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa one comes in touch with the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of spiritual master, one gets Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa can understand what we want. So when we sincerely want Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa sends His representative, guru. Guru is outside representative of Kṛṣṇa. So to the sincere student, Kṛṣṇa teaches from inside and outside. That is the way, so that he becomes quickly fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. So this behavior, to be attached to spiritual master, is a good qualification. Yasya prasādāt, by his mercy, Kṛṣṇa becomes merciful. By Kṛṣṇa's mercy, one gets spiritual master, and by the spiritual master's mercy, one gets the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of western civilization. They are creating motor cars every year, and the bank is prepared to give you loan so that you may work day and night. Take loan from the bank and purchase a motor car and repay him by working so their machine will go on. This is the policy, economic policy. Is it not? Yes. Keep them working, busy. But what is the purpose of this working? Now, when death is there, everything is finished. And everything will be finished, for that working? Just see their knowledge. Everything will be finished and for this purpose I have to work so hard?
Australian devotee 6: They think that you might as well enjoy while you can.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if working hard like ass is enjoyment, let them enjoy. Let these rascals enjoy like that.
Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. Why you should take permission of your father or mother? Your business is your business. Why you are thinking like that, "I have to take permission of mother, my wife, my children"? And who will give you permission? Nobody will give you. You have to take your own permission. That is the way. You have to think that "Now, what is the use of taking their permission? When I am in danger, will they save me?" Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti. "When I will die, they can save me? Then why shall I take their permission?" That is intelligence. Nature does not depend on your wife's or father's and relatives' permission. She does not care. When she will ask you, "Die now," you have to die. No question of permission. "Now your time is up, finished. Get out." No permission. You have to do it. Nature can await permission of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody's permission. Mama māyā.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Paramahaṁsa: One lie leads to another.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...are going to Venus, Americans and Russians combined together?
Ambarīṣa: This summer.
Prabhupāda: Oh, in the summer. Venus is very cold? Why they have selected summer season? (laughter) (break) ...could not go to the moon, and Venus is far above moon. How they will go?
Bali-mardana: They're not going to Venus, are they?
Paramahaṁsa: Are they going to Mars?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise he cannot become a big scientist. He must give a different view; then he is big scientist. So nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Then where is the way to understand? The conclusion is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: (CC Madhya 17.186) "Mahājana, great personalities, recognized ācārya, what they say, you follow." That is the best system. So anyone who is speaking about God with authority—take for example Jesus Christ; he is speaking in the western world—you accept him. We Indians, we accept Caitanya or Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. That is the way. That is the way because these ācāryas, these authorities, they are speaking about God. None of them speaking that "You become happy here," no, none of them. Either Christ or Caitanya or Mohammed, nobody has said. So according to the time, circumstances, position, either you follow any one of them as it suits you or, if you can make a comparative study, you follow the best one. So therefore, our conclusion is Kṛṣṇa is the best.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is devotee's duty. Just like a government officer. Personally he is not very important, but so long he executes government order, he should be respected as government. That is the way. Even a ordinary policeman comes, you have to respect him because he is government man. But that does not mean he is government. He is respected. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. If that man thinks that "I have become government. People are respecting me," then he is foolish. So... But it is the etiquette. If the government man comes, you should respect him as government.
Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible.
Prabhupāda: Yes, provided there is boot. Yes. Therefore there is a Vedic injunction, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "Because you are fool, rascal, you must approach a guru." That is the way. Sa gurum eva, eva, "certainly," abhigacchet, "must go." Otherwise there is no possibility. You remain as foolish forever and suffer.
Yogeśvara: There is one German historian named Frederick Engels.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is another foolish. (laughter) I can...
Yogeśvara: He wrote against Vedic culture by saying that even the brāhmaṇas of Vedic culture were not responsible because the culture failed. It ended at a certain period in history. It was simply exploitation of the workers under the guise of religion. That was his argument.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, immediately, he becomes friend. This is the way, going on. The whole arrangement is like that. So long we shall not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, we have to suffer so many ways, different species of life, different condition, different planets. This is going on. (break) ...indirectly forcing that "You be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise you'll be punished." Why police is so unkind? Because the indirect way is that "You become lawful; otherwise you'll continue to be suffering by us." So intelligent person thinks of it, and he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious. And those who are rascals, fools, bewildered, they think, "We shall adjust it by manufacturing every year new type of motorcars." Although there is accident... The increase of motorcar means increasing the death rate of public. Huh? And still they'll do that. It is becoming problem in cities in Europe and America. All roads and streets are always congested. They cannot drive even at ten miles speed. Still, they are increasing. Still, they are increasing motorcar.
Vāsughoṣa: Kathmandu. Tonight I will go to Hyderabad. I am collecting money. But one thing I find even when we explain to these people, you know... Just like smoking cigarettes. In Kathmandu I was explaining to people, "What kind of enjoyment is this from smoking cigarettes? You are coughing..." This is the way Acyutānanda Swami also describes, so I picked up from him. "You are coughing. You are killing yourself." He also described like this, "Intoxication means poison. Toxic means poison. So this is intoxication. You are actually administering poison. What kind of sanity is this?" So all those people, they told me, "Well, I'll give up cigarettes later."
Prabhupāda: At least they admit the fault, hm? Do they?
Vāsughoṣa: Yes, some people... One hippie I was talking to, he was saying, "I believe in technology and Darwin's theory of evolution." So I said, "The greatest technologists in America have said that cigarettes can kill you. Why are you smoking these cigarettes?" He said, "Yes, I want to give it up," but then he kept on smoking. And to Indian people I explained about karma, you know, "according to your activity," and they all admit, "Yes, there is karma." So I said, "Why don't you serve Kṛṣṇa?" They said, "Later, later." They all say like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."
Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.
Vāsughoṣa: Many people were... On the way to... Even on the way to here...
Prabhupāda: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." Yathā mat tathā path: "Whatever ways you manufacture by concoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says, "No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.
Brahmānanda: Because that means no surrender. To surrender anywhere...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: He takes the body to fulfill His mission.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. That is real understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. As soon as the Māyāvādī thinks that Kṛṣṇa also accepts a material body... Therefore they are called Māyāvādī. They are called Māyāvādī because they think Kṛṣṇa's body is also māyā. Therefore they are known as Māyāvādīs.
Dr. Patel: He takes birth in divya-vigraha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Their story is: "As soon as there is form, it is māyā." They cannot think beyond that in their own terms. Because we have got this form, material body, so their generalization is "As soon as Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, anyone, if He takes this form, then it is material." That is called māyā.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...create another danger. Just like airplane. It is comfortable. You can quickly go from one place to another. But as soon as on the plane, immediately your life is at risk. There is no certainty. So this is the way of material world. You create some comfort and you create some greater danger also. Side by side. It cannot be unhampered comfort. That is not possible. You create a motorcar—the same thing—you drive very speedy and you meet accident. Railway, the accident. There was no need. You produce your food locally and produce your milk. Then eat, drink, and live comfortably. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Make your life successful. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). And if you have got education, then describe the glories of the Lord by your scientific and educational qualification. (break) The rain is coming. We can go this way. Yad uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). (break)
Cyavana: This is the way to go up.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this is a fact, that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yoga, and preach it. This is a fact. Except we, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody knows anything—all mūḍhas. Any association, any religion—all mūḍhas. But you must prove yourself. Otherwise it will be bigotry. If you simply say that "We are only first class" without any knowledge... You have to defend yourself. There will be so many opposing elements. Then you become first class. Your position is first class, but you have to maintain it. Otherwise, they will say "religious fanatics." Any opposition party, you have to meet. That is required.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to sit for some time here, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Prabhupāda: Therefore this process is recommended. Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with ordinary public. Ordinary public—"Go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and dancing." Never argued, neither He discussed Bhāgavatam. For ordinary public-four hours' kīrtana, chanting and dancing, bas. And then give them sufficient prasādam: "Take prasāda." This process... Because unless he has got little śraddhā, he will simply put some false argument and waste your time. Not in the beginning. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. First of all create him a devotee a little. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa-harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21)—only. Because this is Kali-yuga, people are so fallen, so downtrodden, so rascal, cats and dogs. It is very difficult. But this process—chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, giving them chance to hear it and take prasādam—that will cure. And that is easily accepted by anyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Anyone will accept. To chant and dance and take prasādam—no one will disagree. So this is the process. When they come to the temple... Just like these boys. You are offering obeisances; they are also offering. But that will go to their credit, to become bhakta. This process should be adopted. Not in the beginning, but in the beginning give them prasādam, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And try to sell some book. You pay something. That means he is giving some service, the hard-earned money. That will also go to his credit. And then, when he'll concerned that "I have paid for it. Let me see what this nonsense has written. All right. Read." And that will also convince him. This is the way. He'll keep this body, book, and show some friend, so the infection will go on.
Prabhupāda: Shoot.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kill them.
Prabhupāda: Hm. They are keeping them in control. That is the way they should be kept in control, śūdras. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...very anti-Communist. They have an anti-Communist terrorism act. Anyone who is too much leading in their Communist ideas, they put them away. They have an island called Robert's Island. They simply detain them there indefinitely. (break) Very stable. Very stable.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is nice.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't have a welfare state here.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the propaganda always. That is going on. That I already explained, that this was the propaganda of the Britishers, "Anything Indian is bad." You see, they wanted to stop our Ratha-yātrā in London as soon as they saw that it is becoming popular. Even in India the government doesn’t want that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should go ahead. It is the demonic principle—Kṛṣṇa should be cut down. That is the way of demonic civilization. Stop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we are preaching, "No illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating." Do you think people like it?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: No. That I have already said, that as soon as you accept this material body, you must suffer. That is the way.
Harikeśa: So if you fix one thing, another thing will just go bad?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot fix anything. You can simply think that "I am now fixed up." That is not possible. Even if you fix up one type of suffering, another type of suffering will come. So suffering must be there. The body means suffering. One should understand this, that asann api kleṣada asa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asannapi kleṣada asa dehaḥ. You are trying to adjust things, threefold miserable condition, but you should understand that as soon as you get this material body, it will be suffering only. Therefore whole Vedic civilization is a culture how to stop this material body. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also trying. The Buddhists, they are also trying. But they are thinking that "There is no soul. Finish this body." This is Buddhist theory.
Prabhupāda: Pick out. And rest, who is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya, then he is śūdra. That's all, very easy thing. If he cannot be trained up as engineer, then he remains as a common man. There is no force. This is the way of organizing society. There is no force. Śūdra is also required.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now the incentive in modern society to become educated or to become engineer is money. What is the incentive in Vedic culture?
Prabhupāda: There is no need of money. The brāhmaṇa teaches everything free of charge. There is no question of money. Anyone can take education as a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. There is no... Vaiśya doesn't require any education. Kṣatriyas require little. Brāhmaṇa require. But that is free. Just find out a brāhmaṇa guru and he will give you free education. That's all. This is society. Now, as soon as... At the present moment, as soon as one wants to be educated, he requires money. But in the Vedic society there is no question of money. Education free.
Devotee: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, "Oh, you're not thinking for yourself anymore."
Prabhupāda: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, "Yes, we have surrendered. That is the way." Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). The first term is "surrender," praṇipāta. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: "Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do." Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that's all. Or we have no respect(?). This is our program. That is the way of paramparā. Not only we accept, but our previous ācāryas, all the big, big ācāryas, they have accepted. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. He is ācārya. Vyāsadeva says from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream, your dream or my dream, this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?
Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park.
Prabhupāda: If it is parallel, that is my success. And if it is not parallel, then it is useless. But they want to give something of his own foolish ideas. That has become nowadays, scholars. If you give some foolish idea—"Oh, he is a great philosopher." That's it. And our process is evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imam rājarṣayo (BG 4.2). We have to receive from the a... ācāryopāsanam. That is the way. And this Subodhinī-ṭīkā, Ballabhācārya, as soon as he says, "I have done something better than Śrīdhara Svāmī," immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected him: "Oh, you have done better than Śrīdhara Svāmī?"
Dr. Patel: Śrīdhara Svāmī has made it more or less...
Prabhupāda: No, not to you. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You were explaining to me.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. I am explaining to everyone that "Whose business he struck?" That is the way. (Hindi saying) ...that "In the assembly there is some talks, but the talks which is concerned to somebody, he becomes sorry."
Dr. Patel: You did not consult with me but I wanted to know the explanation.
Prabhupāda: No. The explanation... (laughter) Now this doll should be displayed, that laboratory, they are testing urine, stool, and somebody is asking, "Here is a dead man. Why don't you test the urine and stool of this dead man and give him some injection?" This kind of doll should be displayed. The people will be interested. So I will give you suggestion. Not that stereotyped: "If one is doing something, I have to follow that." You should do something...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say Christian and Hindus, Muslims. Anyone who is not a bhakta, he is a rascal. That's all. That is our conclusion. Therefore we say all rascals. Muḍḥa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Why should we experiment other than that?
Dr. Patel: But that is the way of bhakti, sir. My contention is this, with all my...
Prabhupāda: You cannot make.
Dr. Patel: I submit myself meekly, that...
Prabhupāda: Truth is truth. There is no experiment. Truth is truth. You cannot make experiment. "All right, let us see. The sun may rise this side." Can you do that?
Dr. Patel: I think I am not explicit to you, sir. What I mean to say is way of worshiping...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be explained. That is explained, Bhagavad-gītā,
- daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayi
- mama māyā duratyayā
- mām eva ye prapadyante
- māyām etāṁ taran...
- (BG 7.14)
- This is the way. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: Extremely difficult, that even man like Gautama Buddha had several times come back to see his child and son when he left his house, more than half a dozen times, come and go, come and go. Finally he closed his eyes and ran away. A man of that type. And for ordinary human beings it is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. Therefore vānaprastha is recommended, that "Go out of home, remain in the tīrtha-sthana and again come. See your children. Again go. Then take sannyāsa.
Dr. Patel: Tapering it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Dr. Patel: Not this, I mean, the material. But that is the way they do it. That is why their method of education is better than others.
Prabhupāda: They drink.
Dr. Patel: Drinking is different story. I talk of the general mode of education, the way.
Prabhupāda: No. Here are Americans. Is that the education? I don't think so.
Dr. Patel: No, postgraduate education is like that. Not undergraduate. The postgraduate boys are living in close contact with the professors for the research.
Brahmānanda: Only a few schools.
Dr. Patel: Ah, but there are. The research is...
Prabhupāda: No, the professor is also drunkard.
Prabhupāda: The professor goes to hell, and the student also goes. (laughter)
Indian man (3): This is their close association.
Dr. Patel: That is the way they...
Prabhupāda: So you know that story, that one man was drinking, so his friend told him, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my mother drinks." "Oh, she will also go." "My father drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "My brother drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "Then where is hell?" (laughter) "Father, mother, brother, myself, if we live together, then where is hell?" Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: That's a fact. Education by association is the superior method, whatever type of education may be.
Prabhupāda: They have learned from India. The American hippies, they have learned from these so-called rascals. Yes. Ginsberg, he introduced this. He came to India, went to Haridwar, he saw so many rascals, sādhus, smoking gañjā. He thought, "This is the way..."
Dr. Patel: Acchā. Celo.
Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.
Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: "I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for those who are tattva-darśanas."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way of learning everything. You cannot learn your medical science from a pān-wālā. You have to go to a medical college.
Dr. Patel: They also give some (gowdies?) in the pān.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot take your degree from the pān wālā. Nowadays some of the rascals, they are preaching openly that you haven't got to go to a guru. Huh, is it not?
Indian man: Krishnamurti is...
Prabhupāda: Yes, this rascal was speaking like that.
| Page Title: | That is the way (Conversations 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 02 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=97, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 97 |