What is this breathing? It is air only. Now, when the breathing is stopped, a man is dead. Now, you are so much advanced in science. Why don't you replace this breathing? It is nothing but air. So you can manufacture some machine working in electric battery and put some air and fix up, and that same air will come: "Woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh. "Will that give you life? No. Even if you artificially bring breathing, just like nowadays they, with oxygen gas, as if oxygen gas is life... That is not the fact. So if you analyze every part of the body, then you will find that there is no life. This is called education. This is called scientific knowledge. Simply abruptly taking something without any proper understanding, that is not knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa chastised him that "You are talking like very scientific, learned scholar, but you are a fool number one because you are accepting this material body as the self." This is ignorance. This is confirmed in another place, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This kuṇape, this bag of three elements, kapha pitta vāyu, or, take it, the skin, muscle, veins, bones, urine, stool, blood—what you will find if you dissect this body? They are all material things. What is blood? It is also water, red water. The urine, this is also water. And this bone, bone is nothing but earth hardened. If you take plaster of Paris... They sometimes show artificial bone also in the medical college. But that is not. That is bone. That is earth. So do you think this combination of this earth, water, air, fire, is life? Can you produce life? You take... You can get enough earth, water, air, pus, stool, urine, blood.
That is not knowledge
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 6
"One can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead as He is only by devotional service." Unintelligent persons want to imagine or concoct a form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but devotees want to worship the actual Personality of Godhead. Therefore Dakṣa prays, "One may think of You as personal, impersonal or imaginary, but I wish to pray to Your Lordship that You fulfill my desires to see You as You actually are."
Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura comments that this verse is especially meant for the impersonalist, who thinks that he himself is the Supreme because there is no difference between the living being and God. The Māyāvādī philosopher thinks that there is only one Supreme Truth and that he is also that Supreme Truth. Actually this is not knowledge but foolishness, and this verse is especially meant for such fools, whose knowledge has been stolen by illusion (māyayāpahṛta jñānāḥ (BG 7.15)). Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura says that such persons, jñāni-māninaḥ, think themselves very advanced, but actually they are unintelligent.
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
That is poor fund of knowledge. Actually, when one becomes advanced in knowledge, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). In due course of time, after many, many births, when he actually comes to the platform of knowledge, he can understand that "Vāsudeva is great and I am small, I am insignificant." Therefore he surrenders. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is the sign of knowledge. When one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is to be understood that he has actually attained knowledge. Otherwise it is ignorance. To think of Kṛṣṇa and ordinary person as equal is not knowledge; it is illusion.
So anyone who takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa by the words of Kṛṣṇa, believing Him... So... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Kṛṣṇa orders that "You surrender unto Me. You become My devotee. You always think of Me." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ (BG 9.34). "You become My devotee." Mad-yājī. "You worship Me. You offer your obeisances unto Me." Persons who are in poor fund of knowledge, they think, "It is too much. Kṛṣṇa is demanding too much. It is sophistry." No, no. That is not sophistry. That is the real position. Otherwise, without surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, if you think yourself, that you are Kṛṣṇa, that is in illusion, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, contaminated intelligence. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, so their knowledge is not perfect, or not purified. Knowledge perfect is there in every living entity, but it is contaminated by the contact of māyā. So one who can understand the position of Kṛṣṇa and himself, he's called mukta. Mukta means liberated. Mukti means to know perfectly what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa.
So this is called illusion. There is no water, but it appears there is vast mass of water. The animals are bewildered. They are thirsty, they go to the desert to take water. Where is water in the desert? This is called illusion. So mistake, to commit mistake, to become illusioned, and to the propensity of cheating. Every man is imperfect, but he is talking just like perfect. That is called cheating. The so-called scientists, philosophers, they are theorizing, "It may be," "Perhaps." So what is this knowledge, "Perhaps," "It may be"? That is not knowledge. Say definitely. But nobody can say. They are blind. The doctor is giving medicine, but he is not definitely sure whether his patient will die or live. If you ask him whether the person is going to live, "Oh, that depends on God." Ultimately depends on God—although he is posing himself that authorized, he is giving scientific medicine. If you are giving scientific medicine, why you are not sure? This is called cheating. While he is not sure, still he says, "I am scientific man." This is one defect. And of all these defects, there is sublime defect that our senses are imperfect. All our senses. The same thing, just like with our eyes we see daily the sun, but we see just like a disk. Due to our imperfect senses, we see a planet which is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet, we are seeing just like it is... That means we cannot see very distant place—or nearest. Even we cannot see our eyelids, which is just a smear over the eyes. Packed, the packing material of the eyes, we cannot see.
The so-called educational system, all over the world, there is no such education. They are kept in darkness and ignorance and still so much money is being spent, especially in the Western countries. They have got money, big, big high schools, but what is the production? All fools and rascals. That's all. Because they do not know. They have no idea what is self. And without this knowledge... Knowledge means self-realization, that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." That is knowledge. And knowledge how to eat, how to sleep, how to defend, how to enjoy sex life, and volumes of books on this subject matter, these are not knowledge. They are known even by the cats and dogs. The cats and dogs never read Freud's philosophy, but they know how to enjoy sex life.
That has not to be changed. Simply your consciousness has to be changed. That's all. Kāma-saṅkalpa-varjitāḥ. How? How that consciousness can be changed? Now, jñānāgni-dagdha-karmāṇam. That consciousness, transferring the present self-interested consciousness to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, requires knowledge. Requires knowledge. And what is that knowledge? That knowledge is that, "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. I'm not different from Kṛṣṇa. I am part and parcel. I am the superior energy of Kṛṣṇa." That is knowledge.
Knowledge means to understand something. How this tape recorder is manufactured, if we get some knowledge, technical knowledge, that is not knowledge. That is a, of course, to have some, our occupation executed. That knowledge is temporary knowledge. But real knowledge is... This is real knowledge. The real knowledge is that when one understands convincingly that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa, or God. When we say Kṛṣṇa, you should understand the Supreme Lord, the Absolute Truth. Kṛṣṇa is the technical word which is meant for indicating the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the whole, the whole pleasure, the whole attraction. These are the meaning of Kṛṣṇa.
So we are all part and parcel of the supreme pleasure, and our pleasure... Just like my hand. This is my hand. Now, this my hand can take pleasure when it is attached with my body. My hand can take pleasure when it serves my body. It does not take pleasure by serving your body.
Knowledge should be taken from the perfect person. Because if you take knowledge from a person who is defective, your knowledge has no value. You must take knowledge from the perfect.
So anyone in this material world, he is defective. Every one of us, we know that we are defective. What is that? We are very much proud of seeing. So what is the value of our seeing? We see under certain condition. That's all. If there is immediately darkness, what is the value of our eyes? We cannot see. So under certain conditions, because we see, therefore we are not perfect. But if you can see in any condition, that is perfection, not depending on these defective eyes or senses. That is not knowledge. Defective.
Four defects. I have several times explained. One defect is that we commit mistake, everyone. And we become illusioned, accepting something for something. Just like mostly, even educated persons, they accept this body, "I am this body." Just like animals. The cats and dogs, they also think that "I am this body." I have several times told you that I talked with Professor Kotofsky in Moscow. He said, "After finishing this body, Swamiji, everything is finished." He said like that. And he is a big professor. And according to our Vedic culture, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). If one is going on under this impression that "I am this body," he is go-khara, ass and cow, means animal. Therefore they do not know how we are accepting different bodies under karma, by associating with especial...
I get this form?But people imagine, because when they are frustrated, when they see that this form is troublesome, therefore God must be formless. That is an opposite conception of this form. But Brahma-saṁhitā says no. God has form, but He is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Sat, cit, ānanda. Sat means eternal. Sat means eternal, cit means knowledge and ānanda means pleasure. So God has form, but He has got a form which is full of pleasure, full of knowledge, and eternal. Now compare your body. Your body is neither eternal nor full of pleasure nor full of knowledge. Therefore God has form, but He has got a different form. But as soon as we speak of form, we think the form must be like this. Therefore the opposite, no form. That's no knowledge. That is not knowledge. Therefore in the Padma Purāṇa it is said that you cannot understand about the form, name, quality, paraphernalia of God with these material senses. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). By your sense speculation, because your senses are imperfect, how you can speculate on the supreme perfect? That is not possible. Then how it is possible? Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. If you train your senses, if you purify your senses, that purified sense will help you to see God.
Just like if you have got some disease, cataract on your eye, that does not mean you cannot see. Because your eyes are suffering from cataract, you cannot see. That does not mean there is nothing to be seen. You cannot see. Similarly, you cannot just conceive what is the form of God now, but if our cataract is removed, you can see. That is required. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). The Brahma-saṁhitā says that devotees whose eyes are anointed with the love of God ointment, such persons, within his heart, seeing God Kṛṣṇa, always, twenty-four hours. Not that... So you require to purify your senses. Then you'll be able to understand what is the form of God, what is the name of God, what is the quality of God, what is the paraphernalia. God as everything. These things are discovered in Vedic literature.
That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. What is nature of that Absolute Truth. The Absolute Truth, in the first verse of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Now the Absolute Truth, if he is the supreme cause of all emanation, then what are the symptoms? The Bhāgavata said that he must be cognizant. He's not dead. He must be cognizant. And what kind of cognizance? Anvayād itarataś cārtheṣu. Just like I am cognizant, you are also cognizant. But I do not know myself, how many hairs are there in my body. I'm claiming this is my head. But If ask anybody, "Do you know how many hairs you have got in your body?" That kind of knowledge is not knowledge. But the Supreme, Bhāgavata says that He knows everything directly and indirectly. I know I am eating, but I do not know how my eating process is helping my circulation of blood, how it is being transformed, how it is working, how it going through the veins. I do not know anything. But God must be He who knows everything, every corner of His creation what is going on He must know. Therefore the Bhāgavata explains, that Supreme Truth, from whom everything is emanated, He must be supremely cognizant. Abhijñaḥ. Abhijñaḥ means cognizant.
If you do not understand that "Here is a chance to get me free out of this entanglement," if you don't take the chance, are you not the lowest of the mankind?
So the lowest of the mankind, the fool, the impious. Now, you can say, "Oh, they are all degree holders at the university, M.A., Ph.D., B.A.C., and you are calling him the fool?" Yes, still. "Why?" Māyayāpahṛta-jñānaḥ: (BG 7.15) by the illusory energy of the Lord, all their knowledge has been taken away. Why? Because the knowledge is meant for to understand what is, "What I am? What is this nature? What is God? Why I am suffering? Is there any remedy?" These are knowledge. And the knowledge to manufacture a motorcar, to manufacture a radio, a television, and something for sense enjoyment, this is not knowledge. This is the plundered knowledge. The knowledge was given to understand the problems of life, but it is being misused in manufacturing something which will satisfy my senses. That's all. That is not knowledge. They are thinking that this is knowledge. What is their knowledge? Do you think when there was no motorcar people could not go from one place to another? All right, some facility. That's all. But that is also becoming a problem. When everyone will have a motorcar, there will be no place to drive motorcar. You see?
"What I am? Why I am suffering? I do not like to suffer. Why suffering is imposed upon me?" This is called knowledge. But by the illusory energy of māyā, the so-called knowledge, our real knowledge has been taken away, and some foolish knowledge has been imposed upon us that we are thinking, "Oh, we are advancing. Advancement of knowledge." By advancement of knowledge, we have manufactured atom bomb so that killing process can be accelerated. People are dying, and that dying process is accelerated, and we are proud. Advancement of knowledge. Oh, manufacture something which will stop death; then you will have advancement of knowledge. Killing is there. What advancement? Killing is there and you are facilitating, you are making more killing at one drop. This is not knowledge. This is called māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, "the knowledge taken by the illusory energy."
This is aśubha. The aśubha means it is not śubha. If his body would have been auspicious, then this body would continue to exist because we are eternal. These things have been described very vividly in the second chapter. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Because we are dull brain... There is no education actually. The modern education means simply a craftsmanship. If you can prepare a nice motor car, oh, that is advancement of the... And what is this? This is craftsmanship. It is the blacksmith's work. It is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. Therefore it is called jñānaṁ vijñāna-sahitam. This is knowledge,"What I am? I am this body or something else? Why I am suffering? If there is any remedy? I do not wish to die, neither I am subjected to death." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate han... This is knowledge, that "If I am eternal, if I do not die after annihilation of this body, then why I am subjected to this body?" This is knowledge. And to manufacture a motor car, that is not knowledge. That is craftsmanship. Knowledge is here, that "I am eternal. Why I am put into this condition of temporary body, not only one kind of body, but there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and I have to accept one of them, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), according to my karma. This is my position. How to get out of it, to inquire about it? If there is any science to accept it?" That is knowledge.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, jñānaṁ sa-vijñānam, vijñāna-sahitaṁ yaj jñātvā: "If you are fortunate enough to understand this knowledge, then mokṣyase. You become liberated from this inauspicious condition of repeated birth, death, ignorance and suffering, so many things." So we shall try to explain one after another. This is the beginning. Thank you very much.
This is called... (aside:) Bruce! Come on. Sit down. Yes... Rāja-vidyā. Vidyā means education, and rāja means king. So what is the king of education? Just like we have got a different status of life in the material world, similarly, in the education also, somebody is M.A., somebody is B.A., somebody is school-leaving certificate, somebody is three years, somebody is four years. There are different grades of education. Now, what is the summum bonum, highest, topmost education? This topmost education is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, topmost education. Rāja-vidyā. Jīvātmā yathātmādi-rahasyānāṁ rājaḥ. Real knowledge is: "So what I am?" This is real knowledge. Unless we come to this point, that "What I am?" that is not knowledge.
Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He began His preaching, His first disciple was Sanātana Gosvāmī. He was a finance minister of Nawab Hussain Shah, but being attracted with Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, he retired from service and he joined Lord Caitanya. So at that time, when he came to Caitanya for the first time, his inquiry was that "What is education? What is education?" He was educated. He was highly educated. In those days Persian language was being taught in England, er, in India. Just like during British rule English language was taught to us, similarly, during Pathan rule, Persian language was state language. Besides that, Sanātana Gosvāmī was a great scholar in Sanskrit also. Still, he inquired that "What is education? What is education?" Why he inquired like that? He placed before the Lord that "People in general, they call me very educated, and I am also so fool that I accept that I am educated." So the next question is: "Then why do you think that you are not educated? You are great scholar in Sanskrit, you are great scholar in Persian language. Why do you think that you are not educated?" He replied that "I am thinking 'not educated' because I do not know what I am. I do not know what I am. I do not wish to be a suffering member, but these material miseries is enforced upon me. I do not know wherefrom I have come, where I have to go, and still people, they think that I am very much educated and they designate me that I am a great scholar, and I am satisfied. But I am such a fool that I do not know what I am."
Similarly, we do not know how this material world is going on, what are the laws, who is the controller, how it is being controlled. Due to our ignorance, we act in some way, but nature is so stringent that it will never excuse you, either you do it knowingly or unknowingly. Just the same example: the child does not know that the fire will burn, but if the child catches the fire, the fire will not excuse because it is child. Therefore ignorance is the cause of suffering.
And one should be put into proper knowledge. Proper knowledge means to know things as they are: "What I am, what is this world, what is God, what is our relation." These things we should know, not that simply becoming a technical expert or some departmental expert, we become a man of knowledge. That is not knowledge. Here is knowledge. You should know what you are and how you act. And this knowledge can be achieved in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore, to give you knowledge, to give you proper direction, there are so many scriptures in all parts of the civilized world. They should not be neglected. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kṛṣṇa bhuliyā jīva, er,
- anādi bahir-mukha jīva kṛṣṇa bhuli' gelā
ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karila(?)
The meaning of this stanza is that people are forgetful since time immemorial about his relationship with the Supreme Lord. Forgetful. Bhuli' gelā. Bhuli' gelā means he has forgotten. Ataeva kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa karila. Therefore Lord has sent so many representatives to give them these literatures, these scriptures.
Or after many, many research, one can found..., one can find out the confidence or the confidential nature of devotional service. Bahunam janmanam ante (BG 7.19), it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is most confidential because one comes to this knowledge after cultivating other knowledges for many, many births. One comes to this knowledge. What is this knowledge, devotional, rāja-vidyā? What is the symptom? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is the symptom: that one has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. That means he is in perfect knowledge. So long he is not surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, he is trying to become Kṛṣṇa, or he is posing himself as equal to Kṛṣṇa or sometimes above Kṛṣṇa. There is a very well advertised yogi. They say, at least his disciples say, that he is above Kṛṣṇa. That is not knowledge. That is ignorance. Real knowledge, jñānavān, is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Bahunam janmanam ante (BG 7.19). If one is actually intelligent, he should not wait for many, many births. If he believes in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, then, immediately after hearing this verse, that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate, he should immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
So it was not working. So there were many scientists. They were sitting, consulting books: "Oh, why it is not working?" Then the managing director, Dr. Bose... He was very intelligent man. He at once went to another firm. They were also chemical. He knew there was an ordinary worker; he was very experienced. So... He was Muhammadan. He called him at once, "Just come and see what is defect there." And he at once came and manipulated some machine—at once acid transformed. All the theoretical scientists, they sat down. So this kind of experience you'll find even an ordinary man.
And even in bird you'll find. They have got some sort of specific intelligence or knowledge. That is not knowledge. You'll find even in animals there are some wonderful activities which we cannot perform. That is not knowledge. Knowledge means to understand spirit and matter. That is knowledge, what is spirit, what is matter. Just like after intellectual research you find that there is something within this body which is working without which this body is useless. Then, when you come to knowledge that this is this and this is that, when you understand that this is spirit and this is matter... Matter is working due to the touch of the spirit.
Just like I have already explained that this, I mean to say, tape recorder, this microphone, is working because a boy who is spirit soul, he has touched it. Without(?) touching. So therefore we must distinguish that what is matter and spirit. Matter cannot work without touch of spirit. Matter is dependent on spirit. This is knowledge, not that matter is prominent and spirit is neglected. That is foolishness.
Arjuna is asking the Supreme Personality of Godhead that "You teach me." That is perfect teaching. If you learn something from Kṛṣṇa, or from His representative, that is perfect. That is perfect knowledge. All other knowledge that you gather, that cannot be perfect. Because unless you are perfect, how you can give perfect knowledge? So every one of us is imperfect. Because we have got imperfect senses. So with imperfect knowledge...
Just like the so-called scientists, philosophers, they propose their theories; "I think," "It may be like this," "Perhaps..." These are not knowledge. These are all nonsense. You must speak definitely if you know. Just like the śāstra says: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Definitely. Nine hundred thousand species of life within the water. Why? You could say: "About nine lakhs." No. Nine lakhs. Not about. More or less. No. Not like that. That is knowledge. That is perfect... Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And the trees, plants, they are two millions. Never says: "approximately." "Maybe," "perhaps." No. This is all nonsense. We don't accept such knowledge. So... But the, in the material world, these things are going on. Any rascal will give some theory. That will be accepted and he'll be offered Nobel Prize.
Generally, they are thinking this body is all in all there is no rebirth. No. The example is given here in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like a child has his future, another body, boyhood body. The boy has got his future, another body, young man's body. The young man has got another future, old man's body. Similarly the old man has got another body after death. Tatha dehāntara-praptiḥ.
But people have become so irresponsible that they do not know what kind of body he's going to get next life. He's blind. Therefore this knowledge is required, how I'm getting this body, how I can get better body or lower body. This is knowledge, not that how to eat, how to sleep, and how to have sex life. This is not knowledge there in the animals. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. Where to find out one's food, where to sleep, how to have sex life, how to defend, these animals also, they know how to do it. So if we devote our time only for these four principles of bodily wants, then we are not better than the cats and dogs.
The real knowledge is to know "What I am, what is this body, why I am suffering. I want to be happy but why sufferings are there, always some kind of suffering is always there." These are the questions. But people have become so foolish they do not inquire how to make solution of these sufferings, how to make solution of the problems of life. They are blindly being led.
Bhagavān means He is endowed with six kind of opulence. He is the supreme rich. He is the supreme famous. He is supreme beauty and supreme wise. We have to take knowledge from the supreme wise. That knowledge is perfect. Therefore here it is said, bhagavān uvāca. He did not say kṛṣṇa uv... Vyāsadeva does not say Kṛṣṇa because Kṛṣṇa may be taken by the demons as something like us. So therefore he purposefully says, bhagavān uvāca. Bhagavān uvāca means the Supreme Personality of God. There cannot be any doubt about His knowledge. So bhagavān uvāca, whatever Bhagavān says, that is fact; that is not knowledge like that "It may be," "Perhaps." These are all rascaldom. "It may be, perhaps"—that is not knowledge. That is speculation. Speculation is different.
And knowledge is different. You cannot speculate about the absolute knowledge because our senses are imperfect. How we can speculate or come to the right conclusion? That is not possible. We must receive direct knowledge. This is this. Therefore it is said, bhagavān uvāca. So whatever Bhagavān will speak, that is absolute knowledge. And if we take it, then we shall be perfect. I may be imperfect, you may be imperfect, but when we take knowledge from the perfect, that knowledge is absolute.
Paṇḍita means learned scholar. So either this body is in living condition or it is in dead condition, a paṇḍita, a learned scholar, one who knows things as they are, he does not take care of this body. Not take care actually, he does not think very seriously about this body. That was the answer given by... Because this body is after all, a lump of matter. Actually, so long the soul is there, it is moving. It is growing or changing bodies or so many importance is there due to... Therefore, unless we come to this understanding, that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," ahaṁ brahmāsmi, there is lack of knowledge. That is being instructed by Kṛṣṇa.
That is not knowledge. Anyone... Just like dog and cat. Dogs and cats, they have no idea that the dog is not this body. It is a soul also. It has taken a dog's body. Cat is also a soul, but by his karma, by his destiny, by his past work, he has to accept this body. A tree, that is also a soul, but by his past karma or action, he has taken this body of the tree. So we should understand from the authority, as Kṛṣṇa says, that idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetram: "It is a field. It is a concession or..." Field is exactly the term. "Field of work," as we say generally, in the field of activities." So it is field. And I have given a chance to occupy this field and act accordingly. Try to understand. I have got a different type of field, and I have to work on it and reap the result out of it and suffer pains and pleasure. That is already settled up. As soon as I have got a particular type of body, my pains and pleasures are already settled up, already settled up. You cannot make any improvement or degradation.
"I think," "In my opinion," "Perhaps," like this. These things are going on. Big, big philosophers, scientists, they give their opinion. "I think like this." Everybody is thinking, "I think..." And it is being supported. Knowledge means anyone can think in any way, and at the present moment that is being accepted as knowledge.
Just like at the present moment, amongst the scientists the knowledge is going on that life is made of matter, from matter, chemical evolution theory. And such person also being awarded with Nobel prize. He is going on on the wrong field of knowledge, that life is product of matter; by combination of matter, life is produced. It is not knowledge. It is ignorance. But by speculative process, one is writing a big volume of books and he is getting Nobel Prize. Where is the proof that by combination of matter life comes out?
This was discussed by a big professor in California University. He was touring, lecturing all over the world. So when I was in Los Angeles he also came there. So in the Los Angeles University there is one Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He is PhD in Chemistry. He is my student. He challenged the professor that "If you say that life is combination of some chemicals, suppose I give you the chemicals. Can you produce life?" The professor said, "That I cannot say."
So this is going on. What you do not know exactly—simply theoretically you put some theories and speculate—that is not knowledge. But our process, we are getting knowledge from the perfect personality. That is Vedic system. You acquire knowledge from a person who is perfect in knowledge. Perfect in knowledge and imperfect in knowledge. So long we are imperfect, we cannot give perfect knowledge. Therefore we must find out knowledge from the perfect person. That is Vedic injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru. Guru means one who has got perfect knowledge. One who hasn't got perfect knowledge, he cannot become guru. How he can? Guru means heavy. So if I am light and I take knowledge from another light person, then what is the use of such knowledge?
So therefore the Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Abhigacchet, "must." Gacchet. This form of verb, vidhilin, is used when there is the meaning "must. Abhigacchet. So it is not optional that "I may go or I may not go." No. You must go. That is Vedic injunction. So here is the perfect teacher, Kṛṣṇa, real jagad-guru. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it appears in due course of time. There is a time when Kṛṣṇa appears. Everything is there in the calculation of the śāstras.
They are already set up. Real problem is here: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).
Another problem is asaktiḥ. We are very much attached to our so-called home, so-called wife, children. And here is, jñāna means that asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ, āsaktir. You should, therefore, at a certain age, according to Vedic civilization, one is forced to give up this attachment. Naturally, one is attached to wife, children, home. But Vedic civilization says, that is all right from... Up to fifty years, you can remain attached. But pañcāṣordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. After your fiftieth year, you must give up your family life. Vanaṁ vrajet. Go to the forest for tapasya. That was the system. Here at the present moment, everywhere, all over the world, when he is going to die, still he is attached to his political life, social life, family life. That is not knowledge. That is ignorance. You must be detached. Vairāgyam. Anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ. Putra-dārā-gṛhādiṣu. Family life. Putra means children. Dārā means wife. Gṛha means home. Putra-dārā-gṛhādiṣu. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ. Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.
In this way you have to be situated on the devotional service. Devotional service is not sentiment. Just like Kṛṣṇa, after describing so many stages of advancement of knowledge, then he says, mayi ca ananya-yogena bhaktir avyabhicāriṇī. Ananya-yogena. Always... Yoga means linking up. Always linking up with Kṛṣṇa. Mayi. Kṛṣṇa says mayi, "Unto Me, Kṛṣṇa." Mayi ca ananya-yogena bhakti-yogena. So you can become attached with Kṛṣṇa if you are dovetailed in the service of Kṛṣṇa, not casually, but constantly. Mayi ca ananya-yogena bhakti-yogena avyabhicāriṇī. Acyabhicāriṇī means without break, always, constantly. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛdha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14).
That truth is explained as Brahman, as Paramātmā, or as Bhagavān. The same thing. Just like we see the sun. The sun is a planet and there is a sun-god. Just like we have got also in each and every planet one chief person. Here we have got president. Formerly there was one president or king on this planet. Now they have now so many presidents. But according to God's plan, there is one president or king in each and every planet. So in the sun planet there is also one king or one chief person. His name is also given in the Bhagavad-gītā, Vivasvān. If you accept Bhagavad-gītā, then you have to accept all these things. You cannot make minus anything. That is not knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā.
Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We cannot use the ardha-kukkuṭī-nyāya (Cc. Ādi-līlā 5.176)—half. I take half of the hen. I take the rear part, and the front part I reject. This kind of logic, argument, will not be very successful. You have to take as it is, in toto, and you have to understand. That is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. If you take something to your choice, that is useless, useless waste of time. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, he wanted to prove from Bhagavad-gītā nonviolence. How it is possible? Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield. So in this way, if we try to understand Bhagavad-gītā, it will be not Bhagavad-gītā, it will be something else. We must understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our preaching method. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is all over the world. So we accept.
Everywhere He can go, everywhere He can see, everywhere He can accept whatever you offer. Everywhere He can walk. That is His form, but He is not formless.
Therefore He is called omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent. These are the adjectives given to God. Omnipresent. He is present everywhere. That's a fact. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's sitting within your heart, He's seeing everything, what you are acting. Īśvaraḥ sarva... Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). This is knowledge. This is knowledge. Not that to make Kṛṣṇa formless, "He does not eat. He does not speak. He does not walk. He has no hand. He has no head." That is not knowledge. That is ignorance, foolishness. Mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam, paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). Because He does not know the paraṁ bhāvam. This is paraṁ bhāvam. Kṛṣṇa has form, but a form not like us. That is paraṁ bhāvam. He is present everywhere.
He can accept anything, wherever you offer. That Kṛṣṇa says, tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam aśnāmi. Kṛṣṇa says, "I take." Who are you to say that Kṛṣṇa does not accept? Kṛṣṇa accepts, provided it is given with devotion. That is wanted. Tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam. Anyone brings something to offer Kṛṣṇa with bhakti, Kṛṣṇa is not hungry but He accepts... (break)
These are the Vedic injunctions. He takes whole foodstuff, still He remains full. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). These are the Vedic injunctions." So that is, Kṛṣṇa is teaching, sarvataḥ śrutimal loke. He can hear. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, far, far away, therefore we are chanting His glory here, He cannot... (break)
Why one child is suffering, one is not, is very comfortable position? So there is behind so many things, but they do not know. Because they are asura, they think, "It is accident" or "there is no life. Kill it. If you feel botheration then kill it. Finish this business." These are the asuric conclusion. Jagad āhur... asatyam apratiṣṭham. This is false. They say that jagan mithyā, "So we have nothing to do." Brahma satyam and... Brahman is satya, that's fact, but we say, we Vaiṣṇavas say, that "The jagat is created by Brahman. How it is false? How the satya can create asatya?" This logic they cannot understand. If the man who has created, who has cooked so many nice things, so if he is a fact, then the cooking is also a fact. How you can say the cooking is false? That is not knowledge.
Therefore sometimes we find that although they say it is mithyā, jagan mithyā, and take sannyāsa and for some days they remain meditation or aloof from any worldly affairs, but later on, when they do not find Brahman, they come again to this māyā to open hospitals, schools, as sannyāsī. Just like in our country there are many. The beginning we see that... Vivekananda Swami, he took sannyāsa and meditation. Later on, after his touring in the Western countries, he came to India to open hospitals, schools, like that. But if the world is false, then why you are coming to open school and hospitals? Because they could not get... And some other sannyāsī also, he is now taking part in politics. If jagat is mithyā, why you are taking part in politics? These question are there.
No, no, "by chance." This is childish reason, "by chance." It is not very good reason. A child will say, "(By) chance, it has come." That is childish. You must give solid reason. Chance, you can say anything as chance. Everybody can say like that. That is not reason. When you bring in chance, that is not logic. That is not knowledge. If somebody says, "By chance, I have come in this world," that is not logic. I must have my father. I must have my mother. And on account of father-mother being united, I am... This is scientific. "By chance I have dropped from the sky here," (laughter) this is not logic. This kind of logic is vague only. That is no... It has no value. Do you give any value to this logic, nonsensical logic? No sane man will accept, "by chance." When you are caught and you are convicted, then if you say, "By chance, I became convicted"? By chance? No. You committed theft, you were arrested, there were due judgment, and the judge has given you punishment. You must suffer. It is not a chance. And if you say, "By chance, I am now convicted," that is not chance. There is no question of chance. This is a false logic, chance. Nothing takes place by chance. That is sound reasoning. Chance means ignorant. One who does not know, he says chance. That is ignorance. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different thing. So they are rascals, you can say. This kind of logic, "I have not seen. It has come by chance. There was a chunk," these are all nonsensical proposition. There is īśvara. This is sound knowledge. As you conclude by seeing the arrangement in the Tokyo city there is government, similarly, if you are intelligent enough, then you can understand there must be a controller. That is theism. That is knowledge.
He was not a Vedantist. He was a gṛhastha, not even a sannyāsī. Why Kṛṣṇa selected to instruct Arjuna as the disciple of the renovated paramparā system? That is also spoken by Kṛṣṇa: bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3), rahasyam etad uttamam: "Because you are My dear friend, because you are My devotee, you can understand the mysteries of Bhagavad-gītā." Kṛṣṇa did not select a so-called Vedantist to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was a military man. He's not supposed to become a great philosopher. He was a gṛhastha. But the real qualification is to become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Then one can understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. Not by so-called knowledge. No. Knowledge is not perfect unless one understands Kṛṣṇa. That is not knowledge. That is still illusion. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Māṁ prapadyate: "He surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva, as everything, as the origin of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), then his knowledge is perfect. And so long he's hovering here and there, without any understanding of Kṛṣṇa, his knowledge is not perfect. That perfection of knowledge is attained, as it is described by Kṛṣṇa: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19).
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Then you will see God eye to eye. It is not difficult. Tac chraddadhānā munayaḥ. Those who have developed that eagerness, faith, that "I must see Kṛṣṇa in this life..." This life is meant for seeing Kṛṣṇa. It is not meant for becoming dogs and hogs. Unfortunately, the whole civilization is going on, they are being trained to become dogs and hogs. It is the only institution that is teaching people how to see Kṛṣṇa. This is the only institution, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is so important. Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā (SB 1.2.12). By eagerness, automatically you will be enriched with knowledge and detachment. Knowledge does not mean, "Now we have discovered this atomic bomb." That is not knowledge. What knowledge this is? People are dying. You have discovered something which will accelerate death. But we are giving some knowledge to stop death. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is knowledge. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. And as soon as you get this knowledge, automatically you become detached to all this nonsense material happiness.
It is tapasya. But that kind of tapasya was done by Hiraṇyakaśipu also. What is the value of such tapasya? Tapasya must be to understand Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva-paraṁ tapaḥ. If one has actually undergone severe austerities of life to understand Vāsudeva, that is perfect tapasya. Otherwise it is simply... Hiraṇyakaśipu or the manufacturer of the atomic bomb, they are also undergone severe austerities. It is not manufactured all of a sudden. But it required brain and perseverance. They have manufactured, but what is the value? Killing, killing men. The killing, it is automatically being killed. You discover something that people will not die. People are dying. You have accelerated the death process, that's all. But they want to take credit out of it. "We have discovered this scientific..." That is not knowledge.
Here it is said, vāsudeva-paraṁ tapaḥ. Vāsudeva-paro dharmaḥ. Vāsudeva-paro dharmaḥ. Unless we come to that point, dharma, religious principle... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is paro dharmaḥ. What? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. By executing religion one should be satisfied, but unless he comes to the point of Vāsudeva, he'll never be satisfied. That is not... Yayātmā suprasīdati. If we learn to love Vāsudeva, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, then we'll be satisfied by executing religion. Otherwise it is superficial. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ, notpādayed yadi ratim (SB 1.2.8). If one is not interested to hear the kathā, vāsudeva-kathā, śrama eva hi kevalam. Similarly, only formalities will not help. We must enlighten ourself. We must enhance our propensity to hear about Vāsudeva. Śravaṇam. That is wanted. Simply formalities will help us very slowly. One, one who is interested in hearing about Vāsudeva, his progress is very quick. Otherwise, it will be simply formalities. Vāsudeva-paro dharmo vāsudeva-parā gatiḥ. The ultimate goal: go back to home, back to Godhead. Vāsudeva-parā gatiḥ.
We are trying to be servant. We don't identify with anything material. As soon as we identify with anything material, we become under the clutches of māyā. Kṛṣṇa-bhuliyā. Because, as soon as I forget my relationship with Kṛṣṇa... I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is the eternal identification of the living entity, to remain servant of Kṛṣṇa. As soon as we forget this, that is māyā. As soon as I think that "I am Kṛṣṇa," that is māyā. That māyā means this māyā, illusion, can be rejected by advancement of knowledge. That is jñānī. Jñānī means this is real knowledge, to understand his real position. This is not knowledge, that "I am equal to God. I am God." This is not knowledge. I am God, but I am sample of God. But the Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa like that: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Paraṁ brahma. We may become Brahman... We are Brahman. There is no question of becoming. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is not very difficult to understand. Because I am spirit soul, so I am Brahman. That's all right. But I am not Paraṁ Brahman. That is ignorance. I am not Paraṁ Brahman. If one, anyone thinks that he is Paraṁ Brahman, then it must be understood that he's under the clutches of māyā. That is the last snare of māyā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that when one actually becomes knowledgeable, cognizant, he surrenders. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is real knowledge.
Then by reformatory process... Just like we send our children to school, college, to teachers for reforming, that is reformation. The animals, they are unable to accept this reformatory process. You cannot send a cat or a dog to the school and become educated. That is not possible. All human beings, although they are born śūdra, he can be made a brāhmaṇa by the process. Saṁskāra means by reformatory process, bhaved dvijaḥ. Dvija means second birth. Second birth means by reformatory process, when he is eligible, then he is initiated by the spiritual master. That is second birth. Then initiation means he is allowed to study Vedic literature to achieve real knowledge. Because real knowledge means Vedic knowledge, and any knowledge which is not corroborated with the Vedic version, that is not knowledge; that is imperfect knowledge.
Therefore whenever we speak something, we quote from the Vedas, from Vedic literature, to support it. Otherwise it is useless. When you speak something and corroborate it by the quotation from the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Upaniṣads—there are so many Vedic literatures—then it is correct. That is the Vedic system. Not that I create knowledge by my research. What is the value of your research? Because you are imperfect, your senses are imperfect, you cannot even see properly. Even you cannot see your eyelids, so what is the value of your seeing? You cannot see something from a distant place, the nearest place. There must be some adjustment, there must be light under so many conditions you can see. Then what is the value of your eyes?
That is first-class yogi, one who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa always within the core of the heart. So yogis, jñānīs, karmīs, bhaktas... So when you become bhakta, then you are perfect karmī, you are perfect yogi, you are perfect jñānī. Unless you are perfect jñānī, how you can surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births cultivating knowledge, when he's actually wise-jñānavān. Then what is the symptom? Māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). He understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. That is real knowledge. Otherwise, it is not knowledge, it is speculation.
So speculation will not help us. We must have perfect knowledge, and that knowledge is given by Kṛṣṇa. You take it and follow mahājana like Arjuna and other devotees, then you understand Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are immediately liberated. Immediately.
"That I cannot say." So what is the use of such knowledge? You are taking Nobel Prize, holding Nobel Prize on the basis of certain theorizing knowledge, and when you are challenged: "Now you produce with these chemicals," you say: "That I cannot say." So this is going on.
Anyway, human life is meant for knowledge. That's a fact. Therefore athāto brahma jijñāsā. And what knowledge? Knowledge does not mean how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life, and how to defend. That is not knowledge. These things are there in the animals. The animals also know very well how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex life and how to defend. No. That is not... Human life is meant for different business, and that is brahma-jijñāsā. So brahma-jijñāsā, if one begins the life of brahma-jijñāsā, brahma-jñāna, and when it ends in understanding Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection of life. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). The, the one who is actually jñānavān, in knowledge, such person... Not so-called. There are two classes of men. One class of men is called jñānavān, and another class of men is called māyayā apahṛta-jñāna. All these words you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is not my manufacture. So māyayā apahṛta-jñāna means he's rascal number one, but he's thinking that he's vastly learned. He has advanced his knowledge so much. Simply he is puffed up falsely. That is called māyayā apahṛta-jñāna. Or jñānavān means one who has actually knowledge. So what is the difference between the two, one how has got actually the knowledge, and one who's simply falsely puffed up that he has got knowledge? What is the...? How you'll find difference, that here is a man who has got real knowledge, and here is a man, rascal, but he's very much puffed up?
When they are manufacturing big, big 747 airplane, we are manufacturing cycle. (laughter) Just see. Medicine also. Technology, that is also technology. They are advanced in... They were meant for this... They have got brain. They can advance in material civilization because fully... So we cannot compete. We cannot compete, although it is, this technology is the business of the śūdras. Technology is not the occupation for the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, or vaiśyas, no. In our country still, there are blacksmith, weaver, oil crusher. Still they are in the village. But they are śūdras. So this technology means craftsmanship. That is not knowledge. That is not knowledge. Just like I do not know how this microphone is working. If it is wrong, some man who knows the art, he repairs it immediately. That does not mean he has got knowledge. That particular department, he has got knowledge, that's all. Knowledge means that one who knows God. That is knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). This is knowledge. So the western countries, they have taken-advancement of knowledge means manufacturing a big motor car. That's all. That is also good. But simply for manufacturing motor car, simply for driving motor car, if we forget our real business, God realization, then it is ruinous. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, then we become mūḍha.
They will never be happy. There will be no peace and prosperity in the world, because the basic principle is wrong.
So here it is said, mahātmā, gata-pūrvāṁ mahātmabhiḥ. We have to follow great personalities for advancement of knowledge. Actually we do. We accept authority, go to school, college, to learn something from the teacher, professor. But unfortunately, the teachers, professors, they are all rascals. Therefore we do not get proper education. Wrongly directed. They are changing. Changing is not knowledge. That is not knowledge. Just yesterday we were talking some theosophist. He is changing his view. Formerly it was right; now it is wrong. That is not knowledge. Knowledge means what you accept as right, it must be accepted perpetually right. That is knowledge. That is knowledge. Just like our principle. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme," five thousand years ago. So Arjuna who heard from Kṛṣṇa, he also said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He accepted. I am speaking of five thousand years. Otherwise perpetually. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Long, long ago, before speaking to Arjuna, this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken to the sun-god, forty millions of years ago. The same principle. In the Bhagavad-gītā: "I am speaking to you the same principle." Not that "Forty millions of years have passed, so things have changed." No. Nothing has changed. The sun forty millions of years ago used to rise from the eastern side. Forty or trillions of years. Still it is rising from the east. Can you make any new thing, "Let the sun rise from the west?" No. That is not possible.
That is object of knowledge, philosophy. Philosophy means science, anything. Science also trying, "What is the original cause of this creation? What is the original cause of life?" But because andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), the so-called philosophers, scientists, they have been taught by another unscientist, not scientist, so he is also not scientist, not philosopher, because he has been taught by another andha. Just like one blind man leads other blind man. So what he will get, knowledge? So therefore, according to Vedic civilization, it is enjoined, it is ordered, that "If you want to take knowledge," tad-vijñānārtham, "to understand the complete science," tad-vijñānārtham, "the spirit," sa gurum eva abhigacchet, "oḥ, you must approach a bona fide guru." Otherwise there is no knowledge. That is not knowledge.
So Vedic knowledge is so perfect that this Bhārata-varṣa, seven islands. Now the seven islands still there. You cannot make eight or nine, or six. The seven islands are still there. So seven islands means, within seven islands, the two Americas, North and South America, are there. So why it is called Columbus, Columbus discovered? No. It was already in the Vedic literature. You will find in Śaṅkarācārya's... When Columbus discovered America, how many years ago? Two hundred years?
So sac-cakṣur, to see oneself and to see God, it is not very easy. Janmanām ante. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, jñānavān. The so-called learned scholars, Vedantists, so-called Vedantists... One who is actual Vedant..., knower of Vedānta, he understands the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Because veda means knowledge, and anta, "the late phase." Knowledge, there are different types of knowledge. Ordinary knowledge, as we are now interested for economic benefit, that is not actual knowledge. That is art of livelihood. That is not knowledge. Suppose you are a very big engineer, and another man is ordinary electric mistri. The qualification is the same: earning livelihood by some art. If there is some wrong in the electric line, I cannot repair it. I call one mistri. He knows the art. He immediately revives the electric current. So this sort of knowledge is called śilpa, śilpa-jñāna, "artistic knowledge." That is not knowledge. Real knowledge is Vedic knowledge, Vedānta knowledge, to know oneself, "What I am, what is God, Bhagavān, what is my relation with Him, and what is my duty, and what is the ultimate goal of life." This is knowledge. Etaj jñānaṁ tad ajñānam anyathā. Kṛṣṇa says, "This is jñānam." Kṣetra-kṣetra-jña-jñānam. If one can understand oneself and the Supreme Self and what is this material world, why we have come here, what is my relation with God, what is my relation with this world, this is knowledge. They are called jñānavān. Jñānavān, they are searching after knowledge. Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya.
The knowledge is there. They will bite on the joints. Therefore there is mosquito, you have to eat(?) your hands and legs, the joints, but they know where to bite. This knowledge is there, for eating, sleeping and sex life. Nobody takes education for sex life. Nobody takes education for eating or sleeping. Where is the education that you shall eat like this, you shall sleep like this, you shall have sexual intercourse like this? That is automatically known. This knowledge is automatically known. So human civilization does not mean that scientifically you have to do this, do that, eating, sleeping, mating. That is going on, scientifically. Now this science of mating is that we shall have sex intercourse, but there will be no pregnancy. Contracept. So this is not knowledge. Knowledge is different thing.
Knowledge means jñānaṁ niḥśreyasārthāya puruṣasya ātma-darśanam, that is knowledge. Atma-darśanam, self-realization. That is jñānam. Otherwise this lower jñāna or knowledge, how to eat, how to sleep, how to perform sexual life, and how to defend, this knowledge is there even in the mosquito or small ant. And what to speak of other, higher grade living entities. That is jñānam, but that is not niḥśreyasāya. Śreya and preya, there are two things. Preya means to fulfill immediate necessities of life. That is called preya. And śreya means the knowledge, śreya means the goal of life. Niḥśreyasāya, niḥśreyasāya. Niḥśreyasāya means the ultimate benefit. That education is lacking. In the material world, the jñāna, especially in the present age, jñāna means technical knowledge. How to eat, how to sleep. Now they are Somebody was telling me that they have invented eating, eatables from petrol. (aside:) Who was speaking the other day?
Brahma-niṣṭham. If one has no sense to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, he is no better than the dog and cat. No credit. According to Vedic civilization anyone who is thinking, "I am this body," and doing accordingly—for the bodily pleasure he is working so hard—so that is not knowledge. Here it is suggested that prāyaścittam vimarsanam. If you want to be saved from the tribulation offered by the material nature, then you have to very thoughtful, thinking that what is the actual position. That is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra, that "You inquire about Brahman, the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life, don't spoil it like cats and dogs, eating, sleeping, mating and dancing. No. So, so same dancing, same eating can be utilized when it is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then he will be... Simply by dancing and chanting and taking prasādam you'll be learned scholar.
Otherwise, all the senses are there, but only the ear will help you. The eyes are there, hands are there, legs are there, everything is there—nothing of this limbs of your, part of your body, will help you. Simply your ear will help you when you are in danger. Therefore here it is said, śuśruma: "We have received knowledge through the ears, not with the eyes." Those rascals says, "I want to see practically." He cannot see. That is not possible. The modern defect is that they do not hear. The so-called scientists, philosophers, they do not hear. They simply want to see, want to touch, want to smell, want to lick up. That is not knowledge. So they are all failure. They do not hear. But the process is here, as it is said, śuśruma: "We have received knowledge by hearing from the authority." That is perfect knowledge. That is perfect knowledge.
So what they heard? They heard from Yamarāja, their master, that the dharma is that which is enunciated in the Vedas. That is dharma. Dharma, that does not mean that a faith. Faith, of course, we have to. Dharma, religion, is explained in English dictionary as "a kind of faith." That is the beginning. But really dharma means the constitutional position. That is dharma. Constitutional position. Just like chemicals. Chemicals, to find its purity, the books of pharmacology or other books this chemical, the water, it contains so many percentage of hydrogen, so many percentage of oxygen, and so on, so on. So there is taste. The potassium cyanide, there is no taste. But other chemicals there are taste, touching. Because nobody has tasted potassium cyanide up to date, because as soon as you touch on the tongue, you will die.
If somebody falls down in it, it is very difficult to get out of it. Therefore it is ātmā-ghāṭam. Ātma-ghāṭam means killing the soul. How we are killing the soul? We forget that "I am spirit soul." Therefore almost every one of us is forgetful that "I am spirit soul. I am identifying with this body." And Prahlāda Mahārāja says, because we have identified with this body, therefore we are always anxious, full of anxieties. And that is the fact.
Therefore the whole process of knowledge is... I think some of my student, she is present here. She asked me, "What is knowledge?" The knowledge is that "I am not this body." This is knowledge. Knowledge does not mean that how you can manufacture nuclear weapon. That is not knowledge. That is illusion. Real knowledge is to know the simple fact that "I am not this body." That's all. But that knowledge is very rare. And to acquire that knowledge, there are so many systems. That system is called self-realization. There is yoga system, there is jñāna system, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, karma-yoga. There are so many yoga systems simply to come to the platform of this knowledge that "I am not this body." And as soon as one comes to this platform that "I am not this body," then what happens to him? Brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realization. And what is that self-realization? What is the symptom? How I can understand that one is self-realized? Prasannātmā. He's jolly. (laughter) The... So long we do not come to that platform of knowledge, we are full of anxieties. And as soon as we come to the platform of knowledge that "I am not this body," the immediate symptom is joyfulness, prasannātmā.
This equal vision is possible for a learned man who sees a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a cow, on the same basis. What is that basis? Spiritual understanding. So unless you are in the spiritual platform, the so-called knowledge has no value. That is not knowledge. That is ignorance. So real knowledge means spiritual knowledge, that "I am Brahman. I am spirit." Then,
- brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
- na śocati na kāṅkṣati
- samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
- mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
- (BG 18.54)
Other things will follow, and he will be very jolly. This is... A person in knowledge should be in, I mean to say, happiness. That is a sign of knowledge. So one who is in knowledge, he is not disturbed. What was my answer? Huh? (break) Yad anyat tad ajñānam iti matam. Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavān said. He has given the definition of knowledge, eighteen items. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter. Ahiṁsā. What is called? There are eighteen items. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter. The most important point is māṁ ca vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena sevate. The principal point is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is knowledge. Then all knowledge will come automatically. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana. If you take to this knowledge, that Kṛṣṇa or the Supreme Lord, Absolute Truth, He is eternal master and we are all eternal servitors, this very knowledge will elevate you to other platforms of knowledge. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcana sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). Then all the symptoms of knowledge will automatically manifest in his person. Therefore this is the best process of becoming a man of knowledge or wise man. (end)
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
This is the great philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda. Just like... I have already explained now. So 'ham, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is bhedābheda-prakāśa, I am the same quality of Kṛṣṇa, I am the same Brahman also, but I am not the Para-brahman. Para-brahman is Kṛṣṇa. When Arjuna... He is Brahman. When he realized Kṛṣṇa, he addressed Him, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He never claimed equal with Kṛṣṇa. That is not knowledge. That is ignorance. So in this way, Sanātana Gosvāmī will understand his position, relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and Sanātana Gosvāmī, we shall understand. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing in this Caitanya-caritāmṛta; therefore we shall discuss later on further.
So similarly, if you make minus Kṛṣṇa, then the study of Bhagavad-gītā is simply waste of time and labor of love. That's all. "Not Kṛṣṇa." This means, this Māyāvāda philosophy means simply taking trouble. Bhagavad-gītā is all full..., simply Kṛṣṇa. To understand this, it is a science of Kṛṣṇa. And if somebody says, "It is not Kṛṣṇa," then what is that? Simply waste of time and labor. The same thing: the grain is taken out. Simply the skin, enjoy the skin. What is there in the skin?
So this is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that śreyaḥ-sṛtiṁ bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye. Bodha-labdhaye. They stress on knowledge. What is this knowledge? You can talk on any insignificant thing for many years. That is not knowledge. Just like in the present modern civlization, so many nonsense articles without any utility, or volumes of volumes of books are sold in the market. There is nothing, no substance. Take for this..., newspaper. Especially in your country, volumes of papers in the news. Just after glancing over, it is thrown away. That's all. No more use. Just as The newspaper is published early in the morning, and just in the afternoon it is useless, it is heap of paper only, because there is no substance. Nobody can take any interest. But see Bhagavad-gītā, it is, five thousand years before it was published, and a few pages only, and how much care is being taken after Bhagavad-gītā. Because there is substance. Similarly, if you don't accept the substance, simply if you are busy with the skin... In Bengali it is called cavara nie tanake (?). Cavara means skin. You have seen coconut. The coconut is covered by heavy, what is called, fibers. So if you give up the coconut and simply quarrel with the fibers, what profit is there? There is no profit. Similarly, if you give up God, or Kṛṣṇa, who is the essence of everything, and you make your advancement in scientific knowledge, in physics and chemistry and so many departments of knowledge, so according to Bhāgavata this is simply waste of time. Simply waste of time. But what we'll gain?
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
Those who are engaged only in material advancement of education, the result will be that they will go to the darkest region of existence, andhaṁ tamaḥ. It is very dangerous position that at the present moment there is no arrangement in any state, all over the world, about spiritual education. It is pushing the human society to the darkest region of existence. Actually, it is happening so. In... In your country, your rich country, you have got nice educational system, so many universities, but what class of men you are producing? The students are coming to become hippies. Why?
So leaders should think over it, that "What we are producing, in spite of so many educational institutions?" That is hinted here, that because you are worshiping avidyā... That is not knowledge. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung very nicely: jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. Jaḍa-vidyā. Jaḍa-vidyā means this material education. He says they are expansion of this māyā. Jaḍa vidyā. Jaḍa vidyā sa māyāra vaibhava, tomāra bhajane bādhā. The more we shall advance in this material education, the more we will be hampered to understand what is God. And at last we shall declare, "God is dead. I am God. You are God," this, all this nonsense. That is hinted here: andhaṁ tamaḥ. Andham means darkness. There are two kinds of darkness. If you remain in ignorance, that is also darkness, and if you remain actually in darkness, where there is no sunlight, there is no electric light, that is also darkness. So avidyām upāsate. Another, tato bhūya iva te tamo ya u vidyāyāṁ ratāḥ. So these materialists, they are certainly being pushed in the darkness, but there is another class, who are so-called philosopher, mental speculators, religionists, yogis. They are going still more in the darkness, because they are defying Kṛṣṇa.
It is not possible. Therefore, if you want real knowledge, then you go to knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. These Vedas means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Veda, Veda means knowledge. So if you want real knowledge, then you have to take shelter of these Vedas, Vedic literature, just like Īśopaniṣad. There are 108 Upaniṣads, out of which, nine are very important. Out of that nine, this Īśopaniṣad stands first, then Taittirīya Upaniṣad, Māṇḍūkya Upaniṣad, Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad. So the Upaniṣad... Upa, upa means nearing. So this knowledge will take you nearer to Kṛṣṇa. And amongst the learned society, ācāryas, the śruti-pramāṇa... Evidence is śruti. Śruti means these Vedas. They are not experimental knowledge. They are not knowledge established by the research work of contaminated, conditioned soul. Contaminated, conditioned soul, their senses are imperfect. They cannot see things as they are. Simply they theorize, "It may be like that." So much they can say. So "It may be like that," that is no knowledge. Knowledge definite. There is no mistake. Conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat... Cheating means one who does not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā but he is writing commentary on Bhagavad-gītā. This is cheating, cheating the public. Somebody has got some name, a scholar, and he takes advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā, and he writes some comment. And they claim that anyone can give his own opinion. But that is not the process. You cannot give any opinion. Suppose I am a preacher of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How I can give opinion on medical science? That is ludicrous. I can give opinion in my jurisdiction—that's all right—but if somebody asks me opinion about some medical treatment or some legal implication, so what can I do? Similarly, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12).
Festival Lectures
Therefore in the Vedas it is said that the living entities are maintained by the Supreme Lord. That you can understand by your practical experience. There are millions and trillions of living creatures. The human society is only a small portion of this. If you take a portion of a drop of the Pacific Ocean, how many aquatics are there? There are 900,000 species of aquatics. So there are 8,400,000 species of living creatures, and all of them are being maintained by God, the Supreme Lord. We are also being maintained, but because we have become advanced in knowledge, therefore the result is we have forgotten God. This is the result of our education. The more we become advanced in so-called knowledge, you forget your relationship with God. Actually, that is not knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Those who are atheists, those who are godless, their knowledge is already taken away by māyā. They are so-called men of knowledge, wise men. Actually they are fools, rascals, those who are atheistic." This is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā. "Those who are lowest of the mankind..." Nara means man and adhama means lowest. The lowest grade of man denies the existence of God. So as we are forgetting our eternal relationship with God, so we are gradually degraded to the lowest position of living creatures. Our knowledge has no value. Anyone who is atheist, who has no knowledge of God, he has no good qualifications. These are the statements from the scriptures.
General Lectures
Ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Ajñāna means ignorance, darkness. Timi. Timi means darkness. So ajñāna-timirāndhasya: one who is in ignorance and in the darkness, such a person, every one of us... This material advancement of civilization is not knowledge. People may not agree with us, but actually this is the fact. This is ignorance. Suppose I have come here in your city. I have got some business. So if I forget my business and I become busy with my apartment, is that very sound knowledge? I have come here to execute some business. I have got my temple here. There are devotees. They want to see me. I want to see them. They want to take something, spiritual knowledge, from me, and my duty is to impart. This is the business. But if I simply become engaged how to decorate the apartment where I shall live and forget my business, does it mean that I am very intelligent? No. Therefore that is called ignorance. I forget my real business; I become engaged in some business which is very temporary. I am here for two days. I shall live in an apartment. It may be very nice or not very nice—that is not very important thing. For two days I can live anywhere, even underneath a tree. That does not hamper my business. But I must be very serious about my business. That is intelligence. If I forget my business and simply engage myself how to decorate the apartment, or simply thinking how I shall live here comfortably... Just like I saw one advertisement while coming: "Comfortably living in (indistinct) begins here." I saw.
This is the process of attaining peace, śānti. What is that? To understand that God is the proprietor of everything. But that we do not know. We are thinking, "I am the proprietor of everything." This is not knowledge. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. He is the supreme proprietor and enjoyer, but mistakenly, we are thinking, every one of us thinking, that "I am the enjoyer." And then other point is: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram. God is the proprietor of places, all planets, all... But we are thinking, "I am, we, Americans, we are proprietor of this portion," "Indians, we are proprietor of this portion." But actually, we are not proprietor. I, I said to Americans several times that "That hundred years ago you were not proprietor of this land. You came, immigrated from Europe. And now, who can say, after two hundred years, who will remain the proprietor? But the land is there." So this temporary proprietorship is also ignorance. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. God is the supreme friend of everyone. He is sitting within the heart. He's trying to advise me, "My dear living entity, you do like this." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: (BG 15.15) "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "Due to My presence, one can remember, one can forget." Forget also. That is due to the Supersoul. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam. By knowledge—Veda means knowledge—by advancement of knowledge, one should know what is God. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise, eating, sleeping, mating knowledge is there in the animals. This is not knowledge.
He's so nice, so friendly. Because we have wanted to enjoy this material world, He's giving us the chance, "All right, enjoy, enjoy." "I want to enjoy this world as a tiger." "All right, take this body of a tiger." "I want to enjoy this world as a pig." "All right, take this." "I want to enjoy this life as Brahmā, a Lord Brahmā, who has got millions of years of age, duration." "All right, you become a Brahmā." But Kṛṣṇa advises, ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna: (BG 8.16) "My dear Arjuna, even if you go the highest planetary system, the Brahmaloka, again you have to come back." This is the position of material world. You accept this, and again you accept this, and again you accept another thing according to your karma. Just like you have got this human form of body. It is a great opportunity. But if we do not utilize as human being, if we utilize it as cats and dogs, again I'm going to be cats and dogs. This is the process. Idaṁ kṣetram. This body is the field of my activities, and I, the proprietor of the body, I am the knower of the body. Idaṁ śarīraṁ kaunteya kṣetram ity abhidhīyate etad yo vetti (BG 13.2)—this is real knowledge. Etad yo vetti, that is knowledge. The knowledge of technology is not knowledge. That is ignorance. The knowledge of self-realization is actual knowledge. That is possible in this human form of life. That is not possible by the cats and dogs. If we misuse this body for propensities like cats and dogs, we are misusing.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: My explanation is that the original father is Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya: (BG 14.4) "As many forms are there, I am the bīja pradaḥ pitā, I am the seed-giving father." So what is your objection to this?
Śyāmasundara: Well, if I examine the layers of earth, I find no evidence in any of the layers below of any...
Prabhupāda: You are packed up with the layers of the earth, that's all. That is your boundary of knowledge. That is not knowledge. That is not knowledge. There are many other evidences.
Śyāmasundara: But certainly, if there were men living millions of years ago, they would have...
Prabhupāda: But man is still living. Man is still living.
Śyāmasundara: But they would have left evidence in the earth. They would have left evidence behind them, tangible evidence, that I could see the remains of their civilization.
Prabhupāda: So if I say that the human society, man after death is burned into ashes, so where does he get the bones?
Śyāmasundara: Well, that's possible, but I don't find...
Prabhupāda: According to our Vedic system, when a man is dead, he is burned into ashes. Why the rascal will get the bones?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are no bones.
Śyāmasundara: But there are no other... There's no cities, tools...
Prabhupāda: All I say is that all kinds of different classes of forms were existing, since the creation.
Śyāmasundara: On this planet there were higher forms?
Prabhupāda: Why are you taking this planet? We are talking of the whole creation. In the creation everything is there.
Śyāmasundara: If you expect me to understand this, I have to see it on this planet.
Prabhupāda: That is not knowledge.
Karandhara: Possibly there were and possibly there weren't.
Śyāmasundara: You tell me that Rāma and some other higher creatures lived on this planet so many millions of years ago, so I can expect some day to find evidence of that?
Prabhupāda: The evidence is the authority, Vedic literature.
Karandhara: What other authority will you accept? If you dig up a bone and make a test with your own senses and accept that as an authority...
Prabhupāda: Bone authority. So you will be satisfied with your own authority. We have got our different... If you don't accept my authority, then I don't accept your authority.
Śyāmasundara: It would just seem if there were bones surviving for millions of years, why not cities, why not chariots, why not...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. During Rāmacandra's time there were chariots. Everything was there.
Prabhupāda: So the Vedānta says that this kind of education is there in the animal kingdom also, sex philosophy. There is no question of philosophy, it is already there; anyone can enjoy it. Now, at this time, atha ato brahma-jijñāsā, now this human life is to inquire about the Absolute Truth, Brahman, because that is the ultimate knowledge. This ultimate knowledge can be acquired by the human being, not by the cats and dog. So if a philosopher, without any knowledge of God, doubtful knowledge of God, so he is imperfect, he is not even human being. He is cats and dogs. (break) God means supreme controller. So everything we see is controlled. The government is controller, but the supreme controller there must be. That's a fact. Now, if you want to know it clearly, then be educated. That is Vedānta. That is very reasonably said, that "What is that Brahman, God?" Immediately answer is, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). God means, the Absolute Truth means, Brahman means from whom everything has emanated. We see everything is emanating. Just like we see the trees are emanating from the earth, and by eating the fruits, flowers, grains, the animal, human being, they are also emanating. So ultimate cause is this earth. We are emanating. We can say that "I am emanating from my mother." So the mother does not eat, then how he, his, her body can continue and how she can give another body within the womb? So ultimately we can see that the earth or the water is the source of emanation of everything. Then we can inquire wherefrom the water comes and wherefrom the earth comes, wherefrom the air comes, wherefrom the fire comes. This is philosophy. Then ultimately when we come, come to the supreme point of emanation, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "Here is the person, here is the source of everything." So that we must know. Simply in the middle struggling for understanding without any perfect knowledge, what is the value of this philosophy and knowledge? There is no value. You must come to the ultimate goal, the ultimate source of everything. "By accident," "perhaps," that, that is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Prabhupāda: He is a, he is a crazy fellow. That's all. And all these rascal philosophers, they are more or less crazy. One who does not know what is God, what is the value of his knowledge? But our criterion of knowledge is one who has known God. As long as you do not come to that point, your knowledge is useless. Simply misleading. And that is not knowledge. It is a fact that there is some supreme controller. Now if one give education how that supreme controller is working, how He is Supreme, that is real education. And you cannot understand how the Supreme is working, you simply deny the Supreme, that is not knowledge. Supreme is there because you are controlled. How can you avoid the control? How you can say there is no supreme controller? You make a plan and it is frustrated. There is supreme controller. You are making arrangement to live here very happily; next day you die. So you are under controller. How can you deny it? So there is supreme controller. Now, knowledge means, "Who is that supreme controller? How He is controlling?" Not that deny it, "Grapes are sour." Jumping, jumping, jumping, jumping, when he could not reach the grapes, he said, "Oh, there is no need of them. It is sour." Their position is like that. They cannot understand... God is there, that's a fact-supreme controller. But they cannot explain, neither they can understand. There is jackal struggle. Jackal jumping, jumping; when he cannot get the, reach the grapes, he says, " Why (indistinct)? It is sour." Their conclusion is like that. They cannot understand what is God, how He is acting, what is religion, and they are defying, "There is no need of religion, there is no need of God." Jackal struggling, that's all. Jackal struggling is no philosophy. (end)
Prabhupāda: So therefore it is concluded that direct perception is always imperfect. (laughter)
Devotee: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: His belief for..., the criterion for truth is called the correspondence theory, that a belief is true if it agrees with the facts with which it is supposed to correspond.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this example, we see the snow as white, but it is..., does not correspond with the fact. Therefore it is not knowledge.
Dr. Rao: There is another example. They see water can (indistinct) in several (indistinct). One is the seawater, one is the (indistinct rest of comment)
Śyāmasundara: He also says that besides the correspondence, that fact must correspond with..., that a belief must correspond with the fact if it is to be true. Also he says...
Prabhupāda: So that fact does not correspond by direct perception, (indistinct) that we are seeing the snowball white, but scientifically it is not white; it is a combination of seven colors.
Dr. Rao: And even by saying white, it is (indistinct). You see sky, you see white clouds, you see white light, you see snow. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Therefore we sometimes say "snow white." (laughter) "Snow white" means (indistinct). (laughter) So what is the standard of whiteness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here in India, impersonalist, they have got also action. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they have also the same principle. The Śaṅkarācārya is teaching vairāgya, "Sit down under the tree, take thrice bath," so many vairāgya instruction. Rather, their instruction are more difficult than Vaiṣṇava. So vaivāgya-vidyā's teaching. Ours is also, Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught by His personal example. There is no question of inaction, sitting idly and gossiping about God imagination. Even an impersonalist or personalist, they are fully engaged. Just like the impersonalist in India, they are reading Vedānta-sūtra, they are trying to understand. They are not idle.
Hayagrīva: He felt that faith is the basis of action, not knowledge. He felt that knowledge...
Prabhupāda: So faith is...
Hayagrīva: ...is not sufficient for action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Faith is there. Just like a child, even animals, we have seen in the park the swan... What is called the children of the swan?
Hari-śauri: Cygnets.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: Cygnets.
Prabhupāda: Cygnets?
Hayagrīva: Cygnets.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of, the spelling?
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot know completely. That is because our knowledge is very imperfect. But still, so far our knowledge is concerned, as far as possible, we should try to understand. Avāṅ mānasa gocaraḥ. This Absolute is so great and unlimited that it is not possible for us to know Him completely. That is not possible. Our senses does not allow. But as far as it is possible, because, after all, we are part and parcel of the Absolute, so all the qualities of the Absolute are there in us, but it is in minute quantity. So that minute quantity is also very great in comparison to material knowledge. Material knowledge is practically no knowledge. It is covered. But when one is liberated, liberated knowledge is certainly very, very great than material knowledge. So Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān. These are the statements of Bhāgavata. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). It is... Śabdyate means sounded as Bhagavān, Paramātmā, and Brahman. Now, what are the difference or degrees of knowledge? Brahman knowledge, Paramātmā knowledge, and Bhagavān knowledge. The same thing. The knowledge of sunshine, the knowledge of sun globe, and the knowledge of this predominating deity in the sun globe. So knowledge of sunshine is not knowledge of the predominating deity of the sun globe. There is another example in this connection. Just like if you see one hill from a long-distant place, first of all you see just like it is a cloud. Then, if you proceed further, you'll see something green. And if you enter into that hill you'll see, oh, there are so many varieties. There are animals, there are men, there are trees. But from the distant, you'll see just like a cloud. So although the same thing... Similarly, Absolute, when visioned from the Brahman point of view, it is just like cloud. Absolute when visioned as Paramātmā, it is just like something green. And Absolute when realized as the Supreme Person, it is just like you enter into the hill and see everything in detail. So although the focus is the same, the Brahmavādī and the Paramātmāvadī and the devotee's focus is the same, but due to their respective position the realization is different. These things are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There are two, not alone. So you cannot alone think of tat knowledge. You have to surrender to somebody. That is the process.
Guest (1): There are eight kinds of getting the knowledge, means bhakti...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Bhakti is a process. Bhakti is not knowledge. That knowledge you acquire by your sense perception, and bhakti is the pure activities of the senses.
Guest (1): No, surrender means bhakti. One surrenders to...
Prabhupāda: No question of bhakti. That is the process. If you want to know about tat, then that is the process. You have to surrender. So long you will think that "I can think of, I have got power," you'll be failed.
Guest (1): That consideration of "myself, I am thinking," that is not there.
Prabhupāda: Then who is thinking?
Guest (1): Thinking means...
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't use abstract knowledge. As soon as you are thinking, you are thinking.
Guest (1): No, that sometimes thinking, when you are listening inside you...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.
Guest (1): Yes, my outer form is doing that.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, our speculative knowledge, intellectual platform, is not helpful. We must receive knowledge from superior source, perfect source. That knowledge is perfect. Just like we give, generally this example, that to find out who is my father, my search out, research, will not help me, but if my mother says, "Here is your father," that is perfect knowledge because she's authority. Therefore, for perfect knowledge, we have to take it from the perfect authority, not by our speculative intellectual gymnasium. No, that will not help. Because our intellectual jurisdiction is very limited. That is Vedic process. Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process. Vedic knowledge is to receive knowledge by descending process, knowledge coming from authority. That, that you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Knowledge has to be received... Just like a child receives knowledge... He is inquisitive: "Mother, what is this? Father, what is this?" And mother informs him, "My dear child, this is is. This is this." So he is acquiring knowledge by descending process. And if the child wants to get knowledge independently, that is not knowledge. He'll touch the fire. Mother: "Don't touch, don't touch, my dear child!" But he does not know. He's thinking the fire as something eatable. So by the Vedic process, this experimental knowledge is no useful. Yes. The Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to receive perfect knowledge, you must have approach the guru." Guru means who has the perfect knowledge. So you cannot independently get perfect knowledge, intellectual. That will remain always imperfect.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Asaktir ana... (break) ...putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu, nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam...
Prabhupāda: So they have no, mean, detachment for putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. They talk very big, big words, but attached to the putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. (laughs) This is not knowledge. This is ignorance. The test is there, whether you have become detached from putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. If not, you are in ignorance. You may talk very, very, big, big words. That has no meaning. Yes.
Dr. Patel: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu, mayi cānanya-yogena...
Prabhupāda: Ah! Again the same thing. The basic principle is mayi cānanya-yogena bhakti-yogena...
Dr. Patel: Bhaktir avyabhicāriṇī vivikta-deśa-sevitvam... (BG 13.11).
Prabhupāda: This is, this is the basic principle. Without this, everything is false. Everything is false.
Dr. Patel: Vivikta-deśa-sevitvam aratir jana-saṁsadi, adhyātma-jñāna-nityatvaṁ tattva artha...
Chandobhai: Tattva-jñānārtha...
Dr. Patel: Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Artha-darśanam.
Dr. Patel: Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. When you have perfect knowledge of the tattva jñāna.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because I am giving the perfect truth. Anyone who will accept, it will act. Just like a child says that "This is dictaphone. If you use it like this, you'll get this result." That is perfect.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that not all knowledge is so objective. For example, in the matter of understanding society, the communists have their theory, the capitalists have their theory, and there's millions of theories and so...
Prabhupāda: That is not knowledge; that is art. Just like electrician. He knows how to mix the two wires and bring the current. That is not knowledge; that is a business or art for temporary recreation. And because he knows the art how to bring the current, it does not mean that he knows the Absolute Truth. So people are taking at the present moment electrician as the knower of the Absolute Truth.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that he thinks that the knowledge that you're giving is perfect because it is perfect knowledge and not because you are giving it. Because it is revealed knowledge, perfect because it is revealed.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone can take it. Just like we are giving knowledge of the Bhagavad-gītā. So the Bhagavad-gītā is open for everyone; it is not for me only. It is for you also. That is our movement, that you take the perfect knowledge and be happy and make your life successful.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): So he said one thing is to understand theoretically the knowledge, and the other is to practice it. What is the method for...?
Prabhupāda: Everything is there. All questions solved, economic, social, religious, politics, whatever you are-plus transcendental knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you are basing your knowledge, "Perhaps." Therefore you are imperfect. "Perhaps." That means you are imperfect. Your statement will not be accepted. Because you are imperfect, you say, "Perhaps, maybe." So this is not knowledge. This is not knowledge. This is ignorance. As soon as you say, "Perhaps, maybe," that means you do not know what is, the actual thing is. Knowledge must be perfect. There is no question of "Perhaps, it may be." No, that is not knowledge. That is speculation. That is speculation. That is not knowledge. Because you are sitting, "Perhaps," therefore your knowledge cannot be accepted.
Guest: No, no, I'm just asking the question whether or not the right question could be: "Who am I?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. That's nice. Therefore I say when you say, "I am," and when I say, "I am," I must understand who I am, you must understand who you are. That I am saying, that simply saying "I am," is not the final. Is not the final. Everyone is "I am," but he must know what I am, what that "I am." That is knowledge. If you blindly say, "I am," and you do not know what you are, then what is the use of using "I am"? Therefore I ask, "What you are?"
Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She says that everyone has to decide.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That decision is required, that is knowledge. Simply saying, "I am," everyone can say, "I am." What is that? You must know what you are. That is required. Therefore I am asking, "What you are?"
Prabhupāda: How the scorpion is coming out of rice, that they do not know. Such a foolish person, he is scientist.
Rūpānuga: They're thinking because they are able by different methods like synthetics and through chemistry that they can produce...
Prabhupāda: That is craftsmanship. That is not knowledge.
Rūpānuga: But still, they are thinking because they can do, make the background a little...
Prabhupāda: Just like if you paint a picture, rose, you are a painter, not that you know the knowledge. A painter is not a man of knowledge. Man of knowledge means he knows how things are being done. That is man of knowledge. Painter imitates some painting, that's all. He may be a good painter, but a painter is never taken as man of knowledge. I think, therefore, two departments, art and science. So this knowledge, this technical knowledge... Suppose one man has created an aeroplane. That is an art; that is not knowledge.
Rūpānuga: So if they create some synthetic, that is an art.
Prabhupāda: That is an art.
Rūpānuga: Simply copying what is there.
Prabhupāda: Just like a good cook is a good chemist. He knows how to mix up the maśālās and ghee and makes very tasteful thing. So you can call him a good cook. The chemistry is nothing but mixture of different chemicals. That's all. There is oil. There is alkaline. You mix it very proportionately, and soap comes out, very useful.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, that you cannot see him without body. That is your defect. There are so many living entities in the air. You cannot see them. That is your defect. Therefore, Vedānta-śāstra-cakśuṣā: "You should see through the śāstra, not with your so-called eyes."
Rūpānuga: Śarīram puruṣo veda.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Knowledge is through śāstra, authority, not by our senses. That is not knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that explains the... Sometimes some scientists ask that "You are very sure, so sure about the 8,400,000 species."
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They ask, "How are you so much sure about 8,400,000 species?"
Prabhupāda: Because we have heard from authority. As you are asking assurance from me, so I give you the knowledge from where I have heard. You want to hear from me. I have heard from authority. That's all. What is the difficulty? Why you are asking me? You want to hear from me. So I have also heard from authority. This is the statement. You take it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when... They say that there are some plants that can grow from just branches... We stick the branch in the soil. Then it just grows to another plant.
Prabhupāda: That I was discussing, that is foolishness. That is—I was discussing—life is never created, life is already there. The body is created. So they are going on on a wrong theory.
Guest (1): I think our definition of life is a little different.
Prabhupāda: You may define differently, that is your concern.
Guest (1): We are talking about a protoplasm, something that moves. It may not have the soul, it may not have any...
Prabhupāda: "May not have," that means you have no real knowledge, "may not have." "May not have," that is not knowledge. I say, "May have." Then what is the difference between you and me? "May not have," that is not knowledge. That is simply suggestion, speculation.
Guest (1): Want me to give examples...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to take knowledge from the perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, "Yes, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13)." You have to take that knowledge. You cannot say you are perfect and you'll say, "May not have." And what is this knowledge, "May not have"? Say definitely and prove it, scientifically. That is knowledge. "Perhaps," "May not," "May be," these are not knowledge.
Guest (1): Just to give one example, these days the science experiments have conclusively done that a particular egg can be in the body of the womb, can be manipulated into either a male or a female.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We say the soul is within the body so you can make it male or female, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We are not concerned with male and female, we are concerned with the soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We are not perfect. We can speculate only and that is not perfection. "Maybe," "perhaps," like that. No definite knowledge. The definite knowledge you can get from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect. Therefore all the ācāryas accept Kṛṣṇa. We have to follow the ācāryas, ācāryopāsanam. So in India all these ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, they accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme absolute. Why you should not? Are you more than these ācāryas? Then? That is the defect of modern education, they manufacture education although they're imperfect. They have no the common sense that "I am imperfect, how I am manufacturing education and becoming teacher. My becoming teacher is cheating because I have no perfect knowledge." Knowledge means it must be perfect, not "maybe," "perhaps." This is not knowledge. Definite knowledge.
Guest (1): But to bring some message of truth to the people all over the world which are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the message is there, Kṛṣṇa's message.
Guest (1): Four billion, we need some people who will say, "I am the teachers."
Prabhupāda: No, that we are teaching, that you take Kṛṣṇa as the authority. Don't go to the rascals. All problems will be solved. But they are going to the rascals, instead of going to Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Guest (3): You mean Swamiji then that all scientific efforts, whatever they are, should be stopped altogether?
Paramahaṁsa: But first we have to believe it, and then we can see it?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of belief. It is a fact. It is a fact in this way, that Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9)—that's all. You have to see through Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says that a such and such person devotee, after giving up this body, he does not accept. That is seeing. Kṛṣṇa says and you see. Just like you believe me. A child believes the father. Similarly, if the authority is there, then you see by his word, that's all. That is knowledge. Seeing by perfect knowledge—that is seeing. Not by endeavoring with these imperfect senses. That is not knowledge.
Paramahaṁsa: But in this modern age...
Prabhupāda: Modern age means all rascals and fools. So we haven't got to follow the rascals and fools. You have to follow the most perfect, Kṛṣṇa.
Paramahaṁsa: The problem is that everyone is cheating. Everyone is presenting some knowledge of this or that...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have accepted Kṛṣṇa, who will not cheat. You are cheater, therefore you are believing cheaters. We do not cheat, and we accept a person who does not cheat. That is the difference between you and me.
Gaṇeśa: But we were all cheaters before we came to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So how is it that we're not accepting a cheater? How is it that we cheaters have accepted some knowledge from you?
Prabhupāda: Research. So by searching, searching, searching, if you do not come to Kṛṣṇa, then your searching is incomplete. That is the defect. And when you come to Kṛṣṇa understanding, then it is perfect. Then your research work is complete. That is... Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Research work means... Actually, that is science, to find out the original source. Just like they are claiming, "The original source of life is chemical." That is not knowledge, imperfect knowledge. The perfect knowledge is as Kṛṣṇa says. What is that? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the origin of everything." So when they come to Kṛṣṇa, then he finds out the original source. So that is possible by this research worker after many, many births, not many, many years, but many, many births. And bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births," bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān, "one who is actually advanced in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me." Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), that "Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything." Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such research scholar, mahātmā, is very rare." And then He describes in the next verse that what is the symptom of these mahātmās, perfect soul. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ: (BG 9.13) "They are no more under the control of this material nature, they are fully under the control of spiritual nature." So what is the symptom that he is under spiritual nature, not...? Bhajanty ananya-manaso: "He is simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa." Bhajanti, "engaged in service." Bhajanty ananya-manaso: "He has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa." That is the symptom of a mahātmā. The Bhagavad-gītā does not say, "One who has got political business, he is mahātmā," no. Mahātmā means bhajanty ananya-manaso: "Without any diversion, simply engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business. That is mahātmā." So everything is there.
Prabhupāda: ...is not knowledge. If the tenant thinks that "This apartment is mine, I am owner," then he is wrong. If he knows perfectly well that it belongs to the landlord, "I have given for use," then it is knowledge.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the tenant can be easily evicted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. (laughter) When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.
Prabhupāda: ...July 3rd, July 4th not the same body.
Kuruśreṣṭha: Still, they will say that there's still no reason...
Prabhupāda: They will say so many nonsense. Who is going to take it? They are rejected as nonsense. Anyone who is a speculator, he is a nonsense because he has no standard knowledge. Next day they will say, "Oh, no, this is not. This is." They are doing that. That is not knowledge. (break)
Devotee (1): We were discussing in Bhagavad-gītā class last night that during our life we are changing our bodies so many different times, and at the time of death we are also changing our body to another body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you get another body.
Devotee (1): What is the difference of changing our body during our lifetime and at death?
Prabhupāda: This is... I have said many times. Just like you are using this shirt, and it is not usable, you throw it and again accept another. (break) ...understand this is a difficult problem. (laughs) (break)
Ambarīṣa: ...second we are dying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dying means changing body, that's all.
Ambarīṣa: So we're changing bodies all the time.
Prabhupāda: It is going on. You will find it. A creeper is growing. Today she, it is, leaf has grown so much, and next moment you'll see, it has grown so much.
Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. That is also speculation. (laughter) "Because I have failed, therefore there is no knowledge." This is also imperfect because how I can conclude like that? I am imperfect. I cannot decide this way or that way. So that is also. Vedic knowledge says that a conditioned soul has got four defects: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. Any conditioned soul. Even Brahma, he is receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Ādi-kavi means Brahma. He is the most perfect person within this universe, Lord Brahma. So he is also receiving knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. Any conditioned soul, beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, they are defective in four ways: illusion, mistake, imperfectness and cheating. They know that "I am imperfect." Just this Darwin. He knew that he is imperfect, and he cheated so many persons—by false theory, which he cannot explain. He simply gives, "Perhaps millions of years' gap...," this, that. That is not knowledge. So the imperfect person is prone to become a cheater. So we should not take knowledge from the cheaters. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We should take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prabhupāda is giving you the same knowledge, that's all. There is no question of cheating. I have received this knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, and you take this. That's all. My business is finished.
Kīrtanānanda: Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Most professors nowadays, they will admit that they have no absolute knowledge, that everything they know is relative and that there might be something much better than what they are teaching.
Prabhupāda: There might... There is. But you rascal, you do not take it. That is your fault. There is, not "There might be." Here is Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā it is said, etat jñānam: "This is knowledge, and all other things, they are not knowledge." Etat jñānam.
Bahulāśva: Anything other than this is ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Ignorance.
Citsukhānanda: Your teachings, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, had not come here before. So these people are misled. So just recently you have presented. So in a sense it is not their fault because they have had not the chance to hear Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They have got many Bhagavad-gītā, but they were not able to understand. But now by your grace, maybe we'll see the reaction in a few years. Maybe all this will change.
Prabhupāda: Do they say like that or you are saying?
Citsukhānanda: Well, some people have said. Not widely yet. The work must go on. There's much to go. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: Bacteriology, study of germs. So Śrīla Prabhupāda, the reason one person gets a disease from a germ and another person doesn't get a disease, it is karma?
Prabhupāda: That's it. There are eighteen or twenty items of knowledge. The human society is not interested with those eighteen items, and they are simply interested in so-called economic development, technology, mental speculation. That is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They do not know what is knowledge. Just like the first item is... What is that? Amānitvam.
Satsvarūpa: Humility.
Prabhupāda: Humility. So who is teaching? Where is the school teaching humility? This is the first item. Then? Next?
Satsvarūpa: Adambhitvam, pridelessness.
Prabhupāda: Pridelessness. Everyone is proud. Then?
Satsvarūpa: Ahiṁsā, nonviolence.
Prabhupāda: Nonviolence. These are the first three steps toward the path of knowledge, and who is practicing this? Nobody is practicing. You are professor of?
Professor: Yes, I'm an instructor, yes.
Devotee: What subject matter?
Professor: In religious studies.
Prabhupāda: What is your definition of religion?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gītā teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so essential. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge. Darwin's theory. It is simply speculation on ignorance, and it has been taken as knowledge. Freud's philosophy is the business of the hogs and dogs, and it has been taken as philosophy. Even the hogs and dogs know how to enjoy sex life. And they are.... On account of sex life, they have written a philosophy. Is that philosophy? Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Find out. The Thirteenth Chapter. Hmm? (devotees look for verse)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another line?
Prabhupāda: Find out amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntiḥ (BG 13.8), Thirteenth Chapter.
Guru-kṛpā: Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam.
Prabhupāda: They say..., they can say all nonsense, but I have to say something. You accept God as the central point, then I accept you. Why you are making state? Then I'll say "I have got my state," then there is fight-American, Russia. That's all.
Devotee (2): People read these philosophies and they think that they will get knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Knowledge means misguiding knowledge. That's all. That is not knowledge. That is going on. In the name of knowledge, all rascaldom is going on. That is the misfortune of the present world. In the name of knowledge, all rascal isms going. That's all. If we accept after all somebody else is the Supreme Lord, so He's the father. Why don't you accept that? What is the difficulty?
Devotee (2): The difficulty is that they feel that there's no one that we have to answer to.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (2): They feel that there's actually no, there, there's no... First of all, there's no laws, there's no natural laws we have to follow.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Then why you are dictating laws, philosophy? That is the (indistinct) no laws. Why you are dictating your laws, that we should be communistic, this will be capitalistic, this will be socialistic? Why you are dictating? Let there be no law, as the uncivilized man does.
Hari-śauri: Well, there should be law, but that law is dictated by man.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And these rascals say there is no life in other.... Moon planet is accepted as the heavenly planet, and these rascals say "It is sand. And we have brought the sand." It is one of the heavenly planets.
Jayādvaita: Some scientists have started a project. They are beaming radio messages into space because they think perhaps there is someone intelligent there, and they will beam back something.
Prabhupāda: Their knowledge is "perhaps." It is nonsense. They have no definite knowledge. "Perhaps." Perhaps is not knowledge.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We had one CIA agent. Previously, he was a CIA agent. I was told this story, I don't know. Anyway, might as well relate it. So they were doing an experiment in the Bahama Islands off Florida. They were all very high intellects. They were developing a certain radio beam to measure the beams which are given off from other planets, thinking that maybe these intelligent beings, they are sending some message out. So they developed this way of sensoring the beams which were coming from the North Star. Anyway, he said—and he was serious, I was told this; he's in India now, one of our devotees there—he said that when they focused on the North Star and they got the beam back, when they translated it, it came out to be the mahā-mantra.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And so they went to the Department of Intelligence, (laughter) and they went to the United States Army, because this was an army project, and when the Army got hold of it they said, "Oh, you people are all nonsense. Disband this project."
Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the final knowledge. But if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then where is your knowledge? Knowledge, half-way knowledge is not knowledge. Complete knowledge. That complete knowledge is possible, as it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Those who are striving to acquire knowledge, such persons, after many, many births, when actually by the grace of God and by the grace of a devotee comes to the knowledge, then he agrees, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), everything is Kṛṣṇa." Sa mahātmā, that mahātmā, great soul is very rare to be found. Sudurlabhaḥ. Durlabhaḥ means very rare to be seen but the word is used sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare. So you cannot find such a mahātmā who understands clearly Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin... (BG 7.3).
Prabhupāda: Beyond my...
Yadubara: Doctor Frog.
Prabhupāda: Doctor Frog, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Imagining. "It may be like this. It may be like that." That is not knowledge. Doctor Frog is thinking of Atlantic ocean. He is within three feet of water. And how he can think of Atlantic Ocean? He may think, "It may be four feet, or five feet, or ten feet," and as soon as says 20 feet, he bursts. He's finished. Now you are finished.
Devotee (2): But they are so many... (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's a good point.
Devotee (2): But they cheated when they said they went to the moon.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they're cheaters, those who have got imperfect senses, they're all cheaters. If they say something, "Definitely this is like this," that is cheating.
Devotee (2): But how can so many cheat?
Prabhupāda: So many cheat?
Devotee (2): Together. Together they all cheat, they all say they went to the moon. One thousand scientists, all together in one room? They all say, "We agree, this, they went to the moon, here's the..."
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is happiness. Bhagavad-gītā points out what is your distress. Can anyone say what is the actual distress? They do not know it. Distress they are taking as usual part of life. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is philosophy, to find out what is distress. This is directly said by Kṛṣṇa, that these are distresses, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, to take birth, to die, to become old and to become diseased. But they do not know it. Not only they, everyone, all over the world, they take it as part of life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. When a man becomes diseased, when a man becomes old, or when a man dies, they take it it is usual. They have been accustomed to these distresses so much that they do not take it as distress. So this is their ignorance. This is their ignorance. They do not know what is distress and they are struggling for moving the distress. Just like this independence. They do not know what is meaning of independence. Real independence is when you are free from these four kinds of distress. Does it mean that observing this kind of independence is real independence? It is simply fictitious. If you are not free from the laws of nature, nature will enforce you to die. Then where is your independence? Nobody wants to die, so why he's enforced to die? Nobody wants to become old man. Why he's enforced to become old man? But they have no brain to understand what is independence, what is happiness. They have taken distress as happiness. So that is due to lack of knowledge. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to elevate a person to the real standard of knowledge. Without knowledge a madman can say anything. A child can speak all nonsense. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different. So the struggle for existence means to get out of distress, but the real distress they have set aside. The problem that "I do not want to die, but I'll be enforced to die," so what is the advancement in this connection? They might have, so big, big scientists, they have discovered many, many things, but where is that thing that "Take a pill and you'll never die. Take a pill, you'll never become diseased"? They can offer me... I had some abdominal pain, so they have given me dozens of medicine. But still they are not sure whether the pain will be cured. This is their science. So in this way things are going on, in ignorance, mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍha.
Indian man (4): In theory everybody believes it, that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Prabhupāda: No. What is that nonsense theory? We must know it actually. What is the use of theory? Theory is no good. You must know factually. That is knowledge. Theory is not knowledge. Anyone can put forward some nonsense theory. That is not knowledge. Knowledge means factual. That is... So we have to take knowledge...
Indian man (4): How To attain that knowledge then?
Prabhupāda: That also, Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Why don't you take it? The knowledge is there, but you refuse to accept. So what is fault? Whose fault it is?
Indian man (4): How should I persuade myself that that...?
Prabhupāda: No, if you don't persuade, nobody can induce you to persuade. If you are obstinate, who can persuade you?
Indian man (4): Well, the devil persists. (?) I try to believe he persists. (?)
Prabhupāda: But you must agree. Therefore it is advised, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). First of all, you have to surrender. But if you don't surrender, how you'll get knowledge? If you think you are very big man, then how you get knowledge?
Indian man (4): No, we don't think that we are big men.
Prabhupāda: No... That is another thing. That is another thing.
Guest (7): All the miracles only just to increase confidence and...
Prabhupāda: Why...? Magic is magic. That is another thing. That is not knowledge.
Guest (7): Suppose if I want to talk here Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the masses...
Prabhupāda: No, we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness according to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, not by the ways and means by Sai Baba. That is foolishness.
Guest (7): Can I attain such magical powers?
Prabhupāda: So why? What is the use? We are not using any magical powers.
Guest (7): Just to convince the people.
Prabhupāda: Why this foolishness? We never... Ask my disciples. I have never shown any magic. Why?
Bhāgavata: That is a cheap business.
Prabhupāda: That is cheating business. That is not required. It is meant for the foolish men.
Guest (7): ...Suri Bhavantam (?), he was convinced by him just because of his magical powers.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Prabhupāda: Go to the standard of knowledge. Bhagavad-gītā is accepted by the the ācāryas, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. So take that standard. Why do you go to the rascals and fools? Unless you are rascal and fool, you cannot go to the rascal and fool. Why? You take. If you want to know God, take the standard knowledge which is accepted by the... Ācāryopāsanam. You take the knowledge through the ācāryas. Why from a rascal? That is not knowledge. Kṛṣṇa recommends how to take the knowledge. Eh? Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam (BG 13.8). Worship the ācārya. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Just read this. What is that?
Devotee (3): Amānitvam adambhitvam...
Prabhupāda: This is the process of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt (SB 11.17.27). If you go to ācārya, then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? Ācāryopāsanam. Go to ācārya. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Kṛṣṇa has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled. If you want magician, see Kṛṣṇa, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And he expanded himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand, after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here?" No. He is present everywhere. That is magic. Nārada was surprised that "How Kṛṣṇa is maintaining sixteen thousand wives?"
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is their life. "I believe." Whatever he believes, that's all right. This is going on.
Gurukṛpā: The difficulty is they have no intelligence to understand what they are doing. But if... By mass prasādam distribution they will get intelligence to see the serious sins they are doing.
Prabhupāda: Whole thing is "I believe," "Unless I believe..." Anyone can believe something. Is that knowledge?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not knowledge. Opinion. Opinion of a drunkard, as you said the other day.
Prabhupāda: Drunkard believes
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The madman in the mental institution, when you go in there, each one of them is speaking so many things.
Prabhupāda: He believes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like the fan on, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Gurukṛpā: You mentioned in one of your books that everyone in this material world is considered mad, and a madman speaks all sorts of things. Whatever they speak is to be considered nonsense, because they're all mad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some nice mail today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (end)
| Page Title: | That is not knowledge |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=1, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=56, Con=27, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 84 |