Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I'm not . . . I agree with what you say. I am just adding another explanation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you cannot understand your father by any other process. This is the only process. That means things which are unknown, beyond our conception, you have to know it through the authority, just like you know your father through the authority of your mother.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, yes, I agree. But . . .
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that things which are beyond our imagination cannot be known. You cannot say that. Can be known—provided you have got the real process.
Mr. Wadell: I'm afraid I must make, so far as I am concerned, a clear division between what I know and what I believe. There are certain things . . . it is maybe, partly a use of words, but whereas I know that I am here and that I have people in . . . I am in the same room with other men . . .
Prabhupāda: Do you think that this process, as I have suggested, to know one's father through the authority of the mother is not perfect?
Mr. Wadell: Oh, well, I think it's as near perfect as you can get.
Prabhupāda: Why you say: "As near"? Why still doubt?
Mr. Wadell: Because it is not quite the same thing as my knowing that I am here. There's a famous French philosopher who began all his philosophy from the phrase, "I am conscious; therefore I know that I exist." And he deduced everything, you know, starting from here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. You are conscious, I am conscious, that's a fact. It is not the question of belief. It is not question of belief. Belief may be wrong, but fact is fact.
Mr. Wadell: Yes, agreed.
Prabhupāda: So when one's . . . I say that I am conscious, you say you are conscious. We are conscious. That's a fact. And that consciousness is the symptom of the presence of the soul. Because from the dead body . . . dead body means when the soul departs from the body, there is no more consciousness.
Mr. Wadell: This is something on which I think I am probably too young or too . . . I have not thought enough about it to be able to tell you very clearly or to define very clearly what I think. This is very difficult, I know. But I am conscious that I do not know about this. I can make certain . . . I mean, I am inclined to accept what you say, but I cannot say that I know it.