Test (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"test" |"tested" |"tester" |"testing" |"tests"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 17, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So you have not tested it?

Jayapatāka: I have seen while they were laying the bricks they were testing all the time.

Harikeṣa: It seems to be leaning.

Jayapatāka: In the future I'll pers...

Madhudviṣa: Drop a plumb line.

Jayapatāka: Yes, they have a...

Madhudviṣa: You can drop a plumb line.

Jayapatāka: From this corner we can see. (break) ...stores. You suggest prasāda from one of the stores.

Prabhupāda: Prasāda selling.

Jayapatāka: How is the best way to do that? Like in Jag... They are doing? A small...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Otherwise all rascals. Why should you go to a rascal? Immediately you can understand he is guru who has fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He is guru. Others? They are all rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is under these four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. They may talk of so much knowledge, but they are rascal fools because they have not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. All the Māyāvādīs, they are all rascals. They have not surrendered. This is the test. Why don't you take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā? He is guru. One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, one is servant of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. That is the test. If you want to select a guru, you have to see "Whether this person is fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?" Then he is guru. Huh? What is the definition of guru given by...? Why don't you read all these things? Why you remain fools and rascals? Why...? We are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā. You become a guru. How? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That's a guru. Why don't you see all these instructions? And you are presenting yourself as following Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Why? Answer. Why you remain fool and rascal? If you want to remain fool and rascal and question, that is not very good. You must know who is guru.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa, he will sleep. That is the test. When you have seen so many reading but sleeping, that means there is no Kṛṣṇa. Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra. Sleeping is māyā, so if he's thinking of Kṛṣṇa, there cannot be sleeping.

Jayapatākā: No, I'm talking not about the reading half, but the service half.

Prabhupāda: Service also... Everything depends on advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa is there, either you read or work as a coolie, the same thing.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are the qualifications of a perfect leader?

Prabhupāda: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he's illusioned, he's a cheater and imperfect—he cannot lead. So bring any leader of these rascal groups and test with these four principles; he is misleader.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is test of.

Madhudviṣa: They will say, "He is also makes mistakes."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is that mistake?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have not seen any mistakes.

Gurudāsa: Where is the mistake?

Prabhupāda: There is no mistake.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Madhudviṣa: They will say that you are too impatient. We see that in all science there's been a natural progression. Now they have.... In the test tube they have made some tissues, and the tissues are sustaining themselves and are living. So in due course, they'll be able to create some functioning brain.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of your creation? It is already created. Why you are, rascal, working? Why?

Madhudviṣa: We can create a better brain.

Prabhupāda: No.

Madhudviṣa: By our scientific endeavor.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do even a lesser. How you can expect to do...?

Trivikrama: Post-dated check again.

Prabhupāda: Again the same.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion. As soon as you know that "Here is a godless atheist," he is rascal. Bas, finished. Exactly like.... Suppose you are in India, and if you think, "No, there is no government. It is going on automatically," then you are rascal, immediately. Is it very sane man, sane man's statement, statement, that "No, no, there is no God. It is going on"? So atheist means rascal. Such a nice arrangement is going on, exactly at 6:15 the sun is there, and "There is no government. There is no God." Just see how rascaldom. And then what it is? "By chance." And he is scientist. We have to consider them educated scientists? Are we going to be fooled like that? "There is no government." "There is no father." How the child came? "There is no father." Just see.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sometimes.... In most cases they do not check me. "This is gentleman." And there is all..., no gentlemen. And this is the test, how to test a gentleman, that one who is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa.... Or one who is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is gentleman. Kṛṣṇa says that

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is not gentleman. Bas. That is the test. He is not a gentleman.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is recommended everywhere. Illicit or legal.... Mahāprabhu has said, asat eka strī-saṅgī: "Anyone who is attached to woman, he is asat." Bas. This is the whole process, how to become detached from the attraction of woman, dhīra. (break) Give up the connection with woman is recommended. So in our society it will be a good test. We are mixed up with men and women. If you in spite of this allurement, if you do not become attracted by woman, then you should know you are paramahaṁsa. Yes. You are worshipable. And this Bhāgavata-dharma is meant for the paramahaṁsas. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). It is especially. Dharmaḥ projjhita. The other different types of regulated system, to become very religious man or to become very expert money-hunter or accumulation of money, dharma, artha, and enjoying sense enjoyment—the whole world is appreciating these men, who is a religious man, who is very much able to satisfy his senses, dozens of cars and three dozen women, naked dance. They are taking this. Dharma artha kāma. And somebody is trying mokṣa, being baffled or dissatisfied: "These things will not.... I shall become one with." So dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So Bhāgavata says, "These are all kicked out."

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They are all there in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't mention any. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is impartial. And actually, if they test that "Whether this man I am voting, he is free from all these sinful activities?" Then, you see, the whole face of the Indian government will change.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I may tell you, the adults.... That change is meant for the educated, cultured, and...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you don't name that educated, cultured. You simply say that "You vote for this person."

Dr. Patel: People vote for five-rupee notes. They don't vote anything else.

Prabhupāda: Then they will suffer. Then don't, don't complain. Don't complain.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say. Kṛṣṇa says.

Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa says those people are rascal who does not believe in Him.

Prabhupāda: So anyway, that is the test. If you don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, you are rascal. That's all. We are simple child, and Kṛṣṇa has said that anyone who does not surrendered, he's a rascal. So we say, "Are you surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?" "No." "You are a rascal." (laughter) No. Our test is very simple.

Dr. Patel: And what do you mean by surrendering, sir?

Prabhupāda: He does not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. He knows everything...

Dr. Patel: Surrendering means by mental process if I do through my mind. This is my definition. My mental process in the...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: Everything happening is.... By Kṛṣṇa's grace he's surrendering to...

Prabhupāda: Not mental. No mental concoction. Factual. Factual.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We are not such fools. Arjuna, he thought that not killing is better than killing, but Kṛṣṇa convinced him, "Yes, killing is better than not killing." Therefore he, after reading Bhagavad-gītā, he took it, "Yes, killing is better than not killing." Generally people understand not killing is better than killing. But Kṛṣṇa explained to Arjuna, "No, if there is My desire, then killing is better than not killing." And that is knowledge. Therefore we have to carry out simply Kṛṣṇa's order or His representative's order. Then it is all good. Either killing or not killing, it doesn't matter because it is coming directly from the Supreme. And that is spiritual. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa induced Arjuna to kill? He was presenting as very good man, that "I shall not kill." And that's.... Actually that is good. Even if you enemy excuse him, that is very good idea. But if it is not desired by Kṛṣṇa, then it is bad. So our principle is: We have to act according to the desire of Kṛṣṇa. Then it is good; otherwise bad. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So in spite of advancement of knowledge, because they are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore they are all duṣkṛtinaḥ, all sinful men. That is the test. So it is very difficult to understand this philosophy, but this is the fact. We are not going to be followers of zero-vādīs or impersonal-vādīs. We remain completely in the varieties, but these varieties are usable only for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. You cannot stop the varieties. You have to change the quality of the varieties. Just like we are eating. It is not possible to stop eating. Why shall I stop eating? But the quality is changed. It is prasādam.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Brian Singer: In numbers. Yeah. I think yes, but I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It must grow. If it is good, there must be customer. And if it is bad—it is cheating—there may be some customer for some time, then it will be finished. That is the test of reality and false thing. You can cheat persons with false things for some time, but if your commodity is right, the customer will increase. That's a fact. The more people will appreciate, "Oh, here is nice commodity. Purchase it..."

Brian Singer: Do many people follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness by reading books in this method?

Prabhupāda: No, not only reading books. By practicing, by understanding. Then it comes right.

Brian Singer: But what proportion of those people, of all the people...

Prabhupāda: You.... You cannot expect any good thing to be taken up by mass of people. That is not possible. In university, when matriculation candidates, there are so many. Then B.A. candidates, so many. And when you come to the M.A., Ph.D., a very few number.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1976, Melbourne:

Devotee (3): He's not a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's not devotee. Devotee means the first sign will be happy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). If he's not prasannātmā, he's a rascal. He has not entered even devotional life. He's outside. That is the test. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. When he saw Viṣṇu, he said, "Everything is all right. I don't want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. That is Vaiṣṇava. And if he is still in want or unhappiness, that means he has no spiritual life at all. He is simply making a show.

Guru-kṛpā: Our unhappiness is our lamentation for our past sinful activity, and because we're not committing any more...

Prabhupāda: That is another. That is another. That is to remember the terrible condition of karmīs. (break—in car) ...devotee who thinks unhappy because he is thinking, "I am not getting tea. I am not getting cigarette. There is restriction of illicit life, no meat-eating..." In this way he is unhappy.

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: Now it will be tested how much money we have got. (Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa laughs)

Guru-kṛpā: Ghee is cheaper in New Zealand than in Australia.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, first of all arrange for selling.

Guru-kṛpā: I've already sent off the letter.

Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Many? What you...? Many followers.... The philosophy you present, it must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that, that "If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success." He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru. By quality—what kind of followers? That is the.... From the very beginning my strictures are there, that "You have to follow this"—quality. If I were..., "No, you can do like Vivekananda.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Rādhāvallabha: They did an experiment where they took an embryo of a child, and they put it in a test tube, large bottle, and they were growing it by feeding it, and it just turned into a shapeless blob.

Prabhupāda: So why did you take embryo from the child? You make embryo. You cannot make even an egg which can be..., give a chicken. So to waste time with these rascals is very difficult.

Devotee (1): Such programs are minimized in the temple. Should there be a college program in each temple? Or should everyone just work along with the BBT Library Party? Should there be a college program?

Prabhupāda: No, it is useless to talk with them. If you can peacefully sell some books, that's all. Don't enter into very long arguments, because they are all rascals. They cannot understand. Better peacefully, as far as possible, sell some books. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā ca... This is the process. They cannot understand that because there is soul within the child, therefore child is becoming boy. As soon as there is no soul, the child does not become a boy. This simple philosophy they cannot understand, so what is their position? Now, this car is standing because there is no driver. Anyone can understand. Stand still. It will remain there for thousands of years unless a driver comes. Simple reason. But they are so rascal, they will not understand. So what is the use of talking with them? Simply waste of time.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad guṇāḥ. If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no knowledge. He's a rascal, immediately. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the definition given by... If he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's immediately miscreant, rascal, and lowest of the mankind. (break) ...may say that he has passed M.A., Ph.D., D.A.C.(?) and he's a philosopher. But we..., our test is whether he's God conscious. If not, he's a rascal. That's all. Immediately.

Hari-śauri: No good qualities.

Prabhupāda: No. Reject immediately.

Devotee (2): (break) ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we actually don't believe that they're fools.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): I said our difficulty is that we don't actually believe that they're fools. Most people are thinking that the scientists do have knowledge. We don't fully believe that they are rascals.

Prabhupāda: You do not believe because you are also fool, rascal. That means you're also rascal.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Simply faith, blind faith we do not endure. And therefore they are becoming godless. And gradually, if we do not understand factually what is God, then the whole human civilization will be godless. To become godless means again animal. That is the difference between animal and man. In the animal society there is no question of religion, faith, God. These things are not there. The human civilization, if it becomes like that, without any faith in God, without any understanding of God, then where is the difference between cats and dogs and human beings? They must know God scientifically. That is the actual aim of human life. Suppose the dog is sleeping on the street without any care whether a car is coming and smash it. He's also sleeping sound sleep. And we are sleeping in a very nice apartment. So after all, sleeping. And he is also enjoying sleeping, I am also enjoying sleeping. So do you think to change the, I mean to say, circumstances of the sleeping? I am sleeping in a very nice apartment, he's sleeping on the floor. Does it mean this is advancement of civilization? Sleeping is sleeping. Eating is eating. Sex life—the male dog is enjoying with female dog. The sex pleasure is to him, and we are enjoying with a beautiful lover. The sex pleasure is the same. Therefore, you take some eatable, either on gold fork or an iron fork, the taste is the same. Simply like putting the foodstuff in the golden fork, does it mean the taste has changed? So, the test of eating, sleeping, mating and defending is the same for the human being as well as the animals. What difference, what is the difference between the animals and humans? The animal cannot know God. That is not possible. The human being can know. That is the opportunity of this human life. If we are missing that opportunity, then we are leading an animal civilization. This is not civilization. Animal life is not civilization. Civilized means not animal life. Something more than that. That is God consciousness.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are different groups. I know that. But I do not go in detail to understand them. But our..., we have got a crucial test. That anyone who is..., does not know about Kṛṣṇa, he is put into four different types of categories as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. One category is that he is sinful. Another category is that he is rascal. Another category is that he's lowest of the mankind. Another category is that his so-called knowledge is taken away by illusory energy. So this is our test. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā, that

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

Anyone who is not talking about God, he is either of these group: sinful, rascal, lowest of the mankind, and knowledge taken away by illusion. This is our conclusion, and that's a fact. Because a person who does not know about God, what he is? He is animal. The animal has no knowledge about God.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then let them read. What kind of kṛṣṇa-kathā? The kṛṣṇa-kathā test is as soon as he'll get the taste, he'll lose this taste. That is the.... What is this nonsense?

Rāmeśvara: Won't it purify them? That's what they say, "It will purify me."

Prabhupāda: What you are purified? You have become a, what is called, putrefied, not purified.

Devotees: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: You can become purified, and sometimes you can increase your...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You can read. Be purified. You can read. But where is your purification?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Putrefaction.

Prabhupāda: The books are there for reading. By reading, you become purified. (break) In 1935, our Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he went to Rādhā-kuṇḍa for Kārttika-vrata. So at that time he was reading Upaniṣads. So first of all, these bābājīs they were coming. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī had come at Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He's giving some class. So they used to come. But as soon as they saw that he was reading Upaniṣads, they stopped coming. They saw: "They are jñānīs, they are not bhaktas."

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So far our position is concerned, we never say "I think." Whatever we say, we support it immediately by some quotation of the Vedic literature. That is our process. So this morning I was talking with Hari-śauri that our test is this: that because it is written in the Bhagavad-gītā that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15), so anyone who is not surrendering to God, he's thinking independently, so he is either miscreant, a rascal, lowest of the mankind, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, all knowledge taken by māyā, in these groups. Our test is very simple. As soon as we see somebody is not thinking as God thinks, as Kṛṣṇa thinks, we take him in either of these groups. That is our test. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ—we see, practically, they do not speak or they do not think as Kṛṣṇa says, but he's thinking independently. Therefore he is mūḍha. His thinking is imperfect, so therefore, he's mūḍha. And because his thinking is imperfect, another mūḍha comes, he says that "I think like this." This is their controversy. So many independent thinking philosophers have spoiled the broth. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Real knowledge is lacking. Hmm? Anyone, any questions? Yes? Just attend to the question.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Apart from me, even one sees Kṛṣṇa.... There were so many. But it is said that in the battlefield, everyone who died seeing Kṛṣṇa, he got liberation.

Candanācārya: You once said if someone sees saṅkīrtana and wonders "Who are those people?" then they are ten times more advanced than the greatest scientist.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is our test? Just explain. In the morning...

Hari-śauri: Oh. Prabhupāda was explaining to the reporters yesterday, one man was asking what Prabhupāda's opinion was about these other yogis. So he said, he quoted a verse in the Bhagavad-gītā that if someone does not know Kṛṣṇa, then he's either a fool, or he's a rascal or he's the lowest of mankind, or his knowledge is...

Prabhupāda: Most sinful.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is the authoritative source, that you are not master, you are servant. Cultivate this knowledge. Don't try to become a master, falsely. That will never be successful. Remain servant of Kṛṣṇa, you'll be happy. That is the business of spiritual master. He gives the right information; therefore he is respected so much, because he does not cheat. "You can become master, even God you can become"—this is cheating. The real spiritual master says that "You can never become master. You are always servant." And therefore he's worshiped. He gives the right information. Therefore he is honored so, because he does not cheat. The so-called spiritual master is cheating, that "You take this mantra and give me some money and you become God." This cheating is going on. Spiritual master is to be worshiped. Why? Because he does not cheat. He gives the right information. That is his credit. Guruṣu nara-mati. Therefore one should not take guru as ordinary human being. Ordinary human being, he'll cheat you, or he'll give some information, he's cheating. But a guru, real guru, he'll not cheat you. Therefore he should be worshiped as good... God does not cheat you. Therefore guru should not be taken as ordinary human being. Guruṣu nara-mati. "I see that he is like ordinary man. His son is calling him 'father.' His wife is..." That's all right, but because he's giving the right information, he is not ordinary human being. Therefore he should be worshiped as good as God. He does not cheat. That is the test of guru. He'll never say that "You give me some bribe and you'll become God by meditation, transcendental." He'll never say that. This is cheating. Why father is respected? Because he never cheats the son. Father is also a man, another man. Why father is...? Because he's always wishing welfare of the son, he does not cheat, sincerely teaches him the reality.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Take, for example, mauna. Mauna means don't talk rubbish. It is better not to talk than to talk foolish. So mauna is meant for them who cannot talk about Kṛṣṇa. Better stop talking. Mauna-vrata. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, he'll talk all nonsense. So sometimes the spiritual master says that "You remain silent for twelve years." So (laughter) instead of talking nonsense, you remain silent for twelve years. That is mauna. Because as soon as you'll talk, you'll be captured where you are. Better not to talk. This is mauna-vrata. But one who is devotee, why he'll not...? He'll talk about Kṛṣṇa. Vācāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Always talking about Kṛṣṇa. Why he should be silent? If he remains silent, then people will not get the benefit. Let him speak always of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that yāre dekho tāre kaho kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Whomever you meet, you simply talk about Kṛṣṇa, what He has taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. You become guru. So why guru will stop? Guru will speak. But what kind of speaking? What Kṛṣṇa has spoken. Not nonsense. Not like that: "I have painted so many pictures, therefore I have become God realized." Where Bhagavān says "By painting pictures one may..." He does not say, Kṛṣṇa does not say. He has invented this. So therefore our test is, whether he's a bona fide guru, whether he's talking what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then he's guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all, finished. Why should we bother? This is the test. If he's speaking, repeating the same thing, what Kṛṣṇa said, then he's guru. If he's talking something else, then he's rascal. Immediately take it. If you know this art, how to detect the rascal and guru, the test is already there. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Guru will say "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." He'll never say that "I have become Kṛṣṇa. You simply surrender to me." To surrender to Kṛṣṇa means surrender to guru also. You'll learn it. So "Kṛṣṇa is now dead; now I have become Kṛṣṇa." This is rascal, immediately. So to test a guru and a rascal, there is no difficulty if you are well conversant with the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no question.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

One who is too much attached with woman, he is rascal. Another rascal, who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So we have got everything test tube. Put the test tube and you understand. If one is strī-saṅgī... Strī-saṅgī means not only the man, the man or woman, one who are very much sexually attached, he is a rascal. One should give up his company. And another rascal who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all, finished. So if you want to be a Vaiṣṇava, you must give up the company of these two rascals. Then your progress is guaranteed. Everything is there. There is no difficulty to distinguish between rascals and intelligent, guru and bluffer. Everything is there. And to become a perfect Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said asat-saṅga tyāga ei vaiṣṇava. Don't talk even with these rascals. But sometimes in the preaching work we have to talk with such rascals, but not to take their theory but to teach them our theory. If you become defeated by their theory, then you are not a preacher. Don't preach, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: We are giving opportunity people to come and understand about God. Why do they not come here? Then he can make his judgment that "Here is the genuine party." And if one accepts some cheap God, that means he has no understanding about God. He's a rascal. If I say I'm God and somebody accepts me as God, then he's a foolish man. They do not know what is meaning of God. If one wants God, he must know at least what is meant by God. Every scripture, just like in Bible it is said "God has created this universe." So if you come to me and accept me as God, why don't you test whether I have created another universe like this? Why you accept a cheap God who hasn't done anything? Simply he's bluff, and he says that "I am God." So why do you accept such God? Hmm? Why should we accept a cheap God? Everything requires intelligence. If you are not intelligent, then every transaction you may be cheated. Everyone has heard God is great. So great means there should be nobody equal to Him and nobody greater than Him. That is greatness. So test that man whether he has no competitor, another God. Nowadays there are so many Gods. So God is great, why there is another competitor? This is intelligence.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal. Not only blindly we are rejecting, but with reason.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They actually cook the live goat in the ghee? Maybe we should withhold this science from the Western world for a while.

Prabhupāda: No, you are expert already. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: There were some mantras they chant... Just like the sacrifices where they would give new life to the sacrificed animal. They would do the same thing?

Prabhupāda: To test, to test the Vedic mantra.

Hari-śauri: So that goat would get a new life, or...?

Prabhupāda: Who? No, this is used for medicine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Many, many of the Western medicines are taken from different glands from animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Kṛṣṇa? He'll understand Kṛṣṇa as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God then he'll understand. Yes, here is God, Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold, in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Kṛṣṇa in fullness. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra says how He is Bhagavān, what is Bhagavān. You should understand and see from the activities of Kṛṣṇa whether He is not Bhagavān. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Kṛṣṇa as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gītā. Everyone come and take to Kṛṣṇa and understand God and learn how to love Him and your life is perfect.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are these actually the tangible signs by which one can judge what is real religion?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Real religion is how to love God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is the criterion, test. So if you have no conception, God, His personality, then how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It is not fictitious. So we accept, Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Kṛṣṇa is God, and we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and other persons behavior and judge. Hm? What do you think?

Kulādri: We had one priest who came. He was discussing with Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja. He did not know what God looked like, he never gave anything, never talked about God, but he said he loved God.

Prabhupāda: Then? What kind of love it is?

Kulādri: Nor did he say his people ever came to church. He said, "At best they come once a week." He said that's all that is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Well, love does not mean that you come once in a week at my house. Love means you come to my house, give me some presentation, and take something from me. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam. Love means if you love somebody, then you must give him something, you must accept something from him. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti. You must disclose your mind to him and he should disclose his mind to you. Dadāti pratigṛhṇāti guhyam ākhyāti pṛcchati, and bhuṅkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, you give him something eatable and whatever eatable he offers you accept. These six kinds of exchange makes love.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: We have got our testing tubes in Bhagavad-gītā. Who was speaking that "If God is talking, what is use of spiritual master," yesterday?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that was a...

Prabhupāda: "God will talk with anyone."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said, "God is talking with them from within."

Prabhupāda: To any rascal. Does any rascal know that God is within? And He's witnessing all criminalities. Does he accept that? Then the yogis should not have illicit connection with their disciples. Do they believe God is...? It is simply business for earning money and getting woman. They have no other... Valueless. Therefore the government has said, "Fake." What is that? Actually that is a fact. So many rascals are coming, especially in America. Government, they are seeing, "What is this?" "Transcendental meditation and do whatever nonsense you like." Guru Maharajaji: "No use of books." Practically we are saving the whole world. What can be done? There are so many rascals. Let us do it sincerely. And if we also become victimized, then it will be stopped. Āpani ācari' jīve śikhāilā bhakti. Anyone who says God is speaking with, immediately take him as rascal. God is so cheap that He will talk with rascals. He wants to talk, but he cannot hear. Lord Jesus advised him, "Don't steal." Why does he steal? If God is not advising from within, then why he's going at night when everyone's asleep. God is not dictating that "Don't steal"? But he will not care for God's instruction.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They are seeing... They're tested. I don't make any compromise. All my speaking is also no compromise. Here is guru, here is Kṛṣṇa, here is God, here is Vedānta. Real version they neglect, and they stick to the rascal's version, Śaṅkara's version, Śārīraka-bhāṣya. All over India, they are reading Śārīraka-bhāṣya.

Hari-śauri: Rāmānujācārya is very well known in India, so why don't they read his commentary?

Prabhupāda: They hate Rāmānujācārya because he's Vaiṣṇava.

Hari-śauri: Because he doesn't allow them to speculate.

Prabhupāda: He is very strict. He is a stubborn enemy of Śaṅkarācārya. All the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, declare it: māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If you hear the interpretation of Māyāvādīs, then you are doomed. You have no hope for spiritual advancement. This is the statement. Māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Finished, your spiritual life is finished. You can write this also, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction is strictly to avoid the so-called Vedantists.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: Therefore you are doing so with tremendous success.

Prabhupāda: Yes, people say that "Swamiji, you have done wonder, you have..." so on, so on, so on. But I do not know what is wonder. I know it is certain that I have not adulterated. That much I know. But I do not know how to play wonders. That I do not know. But I am certain that I have not adulterated what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. And I study everything by the crucial test of Kṛṣṇa's teaching. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

As soon as we see that somebody is not Kṛṣṇa conscious or Kṛṣṇa's devotee, I take them immediately he's a duṣkṛtina, he's a mūḍha, he's a narādhama. "Oh, he's educated!" māyāyapahṛta-jñānā. Finish. Our study finish. We take it immediately that here is a māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's all. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because he denies to accept Kṛṣṇa, he must be within this group. Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. So people will be sorry or happy, we take them like that, that "Here is a duṣkṛtina," that's all.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That we have to test, whether I can surrender to him. That we have to behave with him. Therefore according to system, one has to study that "Whether I can surrender to him?" If you think that "No, I know better than him," don't accept a formal guru. That is mistake. And guru also will see, "He's appealing to me, he is going to accept my discipleship, let me see whether he is qualified." Then there should be guru and śiṣya, not that as a fashion. Like Arjuna, Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as guru after talking with Him. Find out that verse, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam.

Guest (3): Pṛcchāmi tvāṁ dharma-sammūḍha-cetāḥ.

Prabhupāda: When he was convinced that "I do not find anyone else to give me instruction," then he surrendered.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But this, one of our arguments now, we argue that these molecules that (indistinct) for example DNA, even if they make it, still it just... It means it's a molecule. It is not going to function normally, as we find in a living cell, in a living body. So this has nothing to do with the life processes. The molecules they make, they may do so many reactions, but still there is a fundamental difference in the living body and this simple, that... To determine that it's never possible to create life in the test tube. The have timetables, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in about fifty years, that's about the turn of the century, that about 2001 we are going to make such and such bodies and...

Prabhupāda: All imagination.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So many strange things. They even said it that this, we have these five fingers, they said this isn't enough, so we must make six, so the six...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in this way they're cheating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our brain is a little too small, so we want to do it a little bigger, so that we can think more and utilize more ideas.

Prabhupāda: Where is brain? There is no question.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Davis: Everyone's body, therefore the thing we have in common is we are all a part of the spirit.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fact. We are part and parcel of the supreme spirit, God. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel." Qualitatively, we are one. Just like a small particle of gold is also gold. It is nothing else. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, we have got that godly qualification. God can create. We can also create. That example I have given in my last magazine, that we have created this big 747 airplane, but we cannot create a mosquito. That is also plane, with pilot. That is God's creation. So the creative power, both of us, we have got, but we are limited, and He is unlimited. That is the difference. A drop of seawater contains the same chemicals, but the quantity of Atlantic Ocean and drop of Atlantic Ocean is not the same. So we are just like drop of the Atlantic Ocean, and God is Atlantic Ocean. That is the difference. But chemically test, the whole Atlantic Ocean is salty, we are also salty. Whatever chemical composition is Atlantic Ocean, we are also of the same chemical composition. And because we are part and parcel of God, therefore we show sometimes activities very wonderful, but still, God's activities are still more wonderful.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Experimentation?

Prabhupāda: No, no, in science there are two con..., theoretical and practical. So theoretical knowledge is no perfect. When you bring it in practical action, then it is science. In the scientific laboratory, they do not simply theorize; they test it in the laboratory. That is science. If you cannot test it by combination of the chemicals which you have analyzed in your..., then it is failure, is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here is a scientist. You have not studied properly. That is defect. So why defective knowledge you are declaring as knowledge? That is cheating. When you have perfect knowledge, then you declare. That is science.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: But if he knows everything, he does not know Kṛṣṇa? How he knows everything if he does not know Kṛṣṇa? If you think that you know everything, then you must know Kṛṣṇa. But if you do not know Kṛṣṇa, then what do you know? Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply know Kṛṣṇa, then you know everything. And if you know everything and you do not know Kṛṣṇa, then you are rascal, that's all. Mūḍha. That is the test. If you know everything but do not know Kṛṣṇa, then you are a rascal. And if you know Kṛṣṇa, then you know everything automatically.

Indian lady: I think they think they know it, but I'm sure they are not aware of it.

Prabhupāda: If they know Kṛṣṇa, why they do not come to the Kṛṣṇa's temple?

Indian man (2): Quite a number of them come here. I remember the days when I used to be the only Indian in the temple, seven, eight years ago.

Prabhupāda: Even though they are not coming, they should now come, and we can open many other temples if you come. We can maintain many other temples. You come and take advantage of it. Why you are losing your own culture? That is foolishness. You are Indians and you do not know Kṛṣṇa. That is not a very good credit.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: (microphone rattling) That is the test. Kṛṣṇa says na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a mūḍha. (microphone rattling more) It's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Los Angeles I asked you about this one verse in the Bhāgavatam where it says that in a previous Kali-yuga the materialists were able to travel to other planets. And then it said Lord Buddha appeared to stop them, that they were creating havoc. But you said that was possible in this age also that they may be able to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) (in car)

Rāmeśvara: ...can't ever go to these other planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they can go.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is not artificially. The more you are engaged in spiritual activities, the more you become free from material activities. That is the test.

Interviewer: And so you've arrived at that...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't speak about myself, but that is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). If you advance in bhakti, in spiritual life, then you become disinterested in material life.

Interviewer: Do you think there's a difference between the various peoples of the world? In other words, do you think that Indians as opposed to Europeans have more of a tendency or are more likely to adhere to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu

para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Paṇḍita means educated. So how one is educated? How it is tested? When a person takes all women except his wife as mother, then he is educated. When one thinks others' property as garbage in the street, then he is educated. And when one thinks that all living entities are of the same level, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, then he is educated. Not that for my convenience I say, "The animal has no soul, so send them to the slaughterhouse." He is not educated.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: In other words Prabhupāda will decide who should be leader if he's qualified and there's a process for making him qualified and there's a process for testing to see if he is qualified. So in that way it all comes from Kṛṣṇa.

Interviewer: You chose, for example, these fellows here to run the publishing house and be responsible for the east coast.

Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. He's in charge of publication, he's in charge something else, he's charge, like that.

Interviewer: On what basis, though, can you tell me some of the things that...

Prabhupāda: Basis, just to see whether he's qualified, that's all. Just like ordinarily one manager is appointed by the superior authority on the merit, on his qualification. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: True, because the road is the same, the goal is the same.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhakti... (SB 1.2.6). Because unless you come to the platform of loving God, then you cannot be happy. And so long we have got the tendency to love something other than God, then we shall not be happy. That is the test.

Ali: What is the purpose of this internal dialogue? Internal dialogue, we talk to ourselves all the time, we can't be silent.

Prabhupāda: You talk with whom? There must be second person. When you talk, you are one person, and another person must be there. Who is that other person? With whom you talk?

Ali: With the self.

Prabhupāda: Then you are lunatic. Just like a lunatic, he talks alone.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: The way of testing for life...

Prabhupāda: Why you are spoiling your nails? It may come to a boil and then you'll understand. It is very dangerous habit. If there is little (indistinct) then it will become a boil.

Pradyumna: Jñānagamya said that on Mars they found something like a crater with a house. Looked like a... Or a bombed-out thing. This Jñānagamya was working with a, he works with some information service, U.S. Information Service. So he was in charge of designing something here for Fourth of July. Some program. So he got this information from this U.S. Information Service which generally..., sometimes it isn't made public. It's just in their U.S. service. They'd seen some kind of a crater with...

Parivrājakācārya: Roads in it as well.

Pradyumna: Yes, something with roads in it or something.

Hari-śauri: The way they test for life is they take some soil and mix certain things with it, and then they wait and see if there is some life development from that.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Parivrājakācārya: They have sent this one ship to Mars at a cost of one billion dollars. They are making these tests.

Hari-śauri: Now there's a second one going around as well. That's Viking 1 that's on there now, and they have another one, Viking 2, that's designed to orbit.

Pradyumna: Vikings were names of pirates. Viking means pirates. Pirate's a thief. Vikings, they used to be thieves. They named their spaceship Viking. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (break)...the idea going to the other planet? Colonization or what?

Pradyumna: One thing, they say, is security, that American and Russia are fighting. So it was a race to get to the moon because they think that from other planets they can control conditions on the earth. From another planet they can control weather or they can control different things.

Prabhupāda: Just see how bogus.

Pradyumna: That is one thing they say, we must get to the moon first, for security.

Prabhupāda: That is now failure. Now they'll do it from Mars.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ...I.A.S. civil service examination before one man is posted in some responsible office. Similarly, to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa, as He says na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69), one has to pass examination, severe test of examination. All the big, big devotees we see. Nārada Muni, before becoming Nārada Muni, he had to pass through severe examination, test. That chance is there in the human form of life, to pass the examination, test. But they are passing this human life with ordinary animal propensities. They are not trained up to pass the examination and be recognized by God. That civilization is lost, Vedic civilization, to prepare the human beings for passing the test, examination for being recognized by God.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: They cannot make this gas and combine?

Hari-śauri: This is the way they are testing for life on Mars. This is one of the tests.

Prabhupāda: No, why Mars? In their laboratory they can make gas and mix.

Hari-śauri: Well they say that they've made amino acids.

Prabhupāda: They cannot make?

Hari-śauri: They've made that, they say.

Prabhupāda: But they cannot produce life.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: And you have to wait one million years. (japa)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Is it true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Kṛṣṇa is testing us every day? We're having tests, opportunities...

Prabhupāda: No, just like if you want responsible post, then there is question of test. If you want to become a vagabond, remain vagabond. Where is question of test?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, for devotees.

Prabhupāda: Ah, for devotees, there is test. For devotees there is test. We see from the devotee's life, Prahlāda Mahārāja, how much severe test he had to pass through. Bali Mahārāja, Nārada Muni.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the most advanced the devotee is, the more severe the test is, the more chance.

Prabhupāda: No, after you pass the examination, there is no more test. But before coming to the post of recognized devotee, Kṛṣṇa tests very severely. That one has to pass.

Hari-śauri: I read once in the Bhāgavatam in one of your purports, you said that māyā is there to test the sincerity of the candidate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we see from the life of Bali Mahārāja, how he was put into difficulty. Even his spiritual master cursed him. (break) ...put into test and still he remains in his determination, then he's passed. That is very natural. And there is a word, "acid test"?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: For ascertaining real gold, the acid test one has to pass to become real gold.

Nava-yauvana: (break) ...this test depends on one's faith in Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Faith in Kṛṣṇa? What do you mean by faith?

Hari-śauri: If you want to pass the test, he says, does that depend on one's faith?

Prabhupāda: What does that faith mean?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Conviction.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Faith means that you are meant for giving some service to Kṛṣṇa. You should stick to that service, that path, in spite of all impediments. That is the passing of test. Generally, just like we are meant for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So there may be severe test, but still we shall remain determined. That is wanted. There may be so many impediments, punishment, still you should do that. That is wanted. That is test. Not that as soon as there is some difficulty I give it up. There may be severe test, but still we shall not give it up. We must go on. That is determination.

Nava-yauvana: Passing the test means executing the order of the spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is spiritual life. One has to take order from the spiritual master and execute it, despite all impediments. That is determination. What are these pictures dancing?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Modern sculpture.

Prabhupāda: They are dancing on snake or what?

Hari-śauri: Just dancing.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: They got one of those movie projectors—the ones in the small suitcase? With all the films. We were just testing it. They were just testing it downstairs.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We were planning to have..., to show one movie tonight for the guests, that new movie that is made about New Vrindaban. When our other guests arrive we will show it at about eight o'clock. Would you like also to see it again, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. Where it will be shown?

Hari-śauri: They can show it anywhere.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then why there is no life?

Jñānagamya: If I am a lusty scientist then I can be lusty with a woman or I can be lusty with the test tubes and the chemicals. The lust is there, so why is there no artificial semina? The same lust is there. Desire for profit, adoration, distinction is there. So they are a failure.

Harikeśa: Our proposition is nothing like this, our proposition is that lust is the creation of everything.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I charge.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So we put you in a room with a lot of lust and you create a baby.

Harikeśa: No, that will happen automatically, you just, the ingredients come together automatically.

Prabhupāda: Obstinate rascals. Not only rascal, but obstinate rascal. Their only remedy is shoe. That's all. Obstinacy. There is a story about obstinacy. Two friends were talking. One friend said, "This is cut by a scissor." So another friend says, "No, it is cut by the knife." So then there was fight. So the friend who was talking of the knife, he was strong enough. So he captured him: "You accept it is scissor, otherwise I'll throw you in the water." So other, "No, it is scissor," so he threw him in the water. So when he was dying, he was doing like this. (Prabhupāda makes a hand motion like scissor) (laughter) So he is obstinate rascal. It is as good as that garden here. Rather, here there is no disturbance of outsiders, and there there are so many disturbances. It is better. Our theory is... Not theory, fact-daiva-netreṇa. These things are arranged by superior management.

Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay:

Guest: Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ, pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. Etān vegān yo viṣa... You are manipulated by the udara-vegam, upastha-vegam. First there is test: etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ (NOI 1). Then for him Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). He has got three dozen sevā-dāsī, and living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. My Guru Mahārāja wanted to publish Govinda-līlāmṛta. He asked permission of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So first of all Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, "I'll tell you some day." And when he reminded, he said, "Yes you can print one copy. If you are so much anxious to print it, print one copy. You'll read and you will see that you have printed. Not for distribution." So we are printing all these books for understanding properly. Not that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Let us go." Jump over like monkey. "Here is rāsa-līlā. Immediately..."

Acyutānanda: Even in Kṛṣṇa book rāsa-līlā should not be told in public.

Prabhupāda: No, why? Kṛṣṇa book must be there, in the book must be there.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And they are not giving citizenship?

Jayapatākā: Myself? What happened was I applied last September. So now it's nearly one year, so they had sent my application from Māyāpur to Calcutta, Writer's Building. Again back. Again Writer's Building, then to Delhi. Then Delhi sent again back. I went, and I asked the secretary, and I found out that they had sent again back from Delhi, again back to Māyāpur and then re-investigated me. At that time they brought in some local people, and one investigator, he said that "This Jayapatākā Swami, we have heard that he is a very bad person. He beats the people." They said, "No, We never heard such thing." "No, no. We have heard that he is very bad." In this way by negative they are testing. They came and told me that for two hours police is drilling three different people from Navadvīpa and Māyāpur. In this way no one said a bad...

Prabhupāda: No, if you are a famous man, then they'll do.

Gargamuni: Him and Bhavānanda.

Jayapatākā: Now Bhavānanda is more famous.

Prabhupāda: He is notorious.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Minister: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere what is called charity. The industry, there's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called-inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural... Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become Kṛṣṇa bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Kṛṣṇa? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Mohammedan family. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? They haven't got to do anything with Kṛṣṇa. So how they have become a Kṛṣṇa bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsee family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Kṛṣṇa? We Indians or Hindus, we may have some concern with Kṛṣṇa, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Kṛṣṇa. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsee." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them, that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Kṛṣṇa consciousness-come here." Ask them, make a test. They'll refuse, they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got Kṛṣṇa bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become Kṛṣṇa bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.

Garden Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: Ultimately.

Prabhupāda: Not ultimately. Automatically. Just like in a small time, our, that Kṛṣṇa dāsa? He knows English, he knows French, he knows... What does it mean? He has heard it. Now he'll want to speak. That is the natural sequence. If anyone has listened from the authority about Kṛṣṇa, he wants to speak again. That is preaching. Not that "I have listened about Kṛṣṇa, that's all right." No. When he wants to speak to others, that is advancement. That is wanted. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. That is the test that he has advanced. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā (indistinct).

Devotee: Does he have to speak immediately, or he can speak after some time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not immediately. Immediately how you can speak. Unless he knows, what he'll speak? It is better not to speak than speaking all nonsense. He must learn first of all what is the philosophy, what is the science. Then he can speak.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kneupper: Yes, but one has to also show that he has knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is next. First of all, if I say that "Here is a man of knowledge," where is the objection? Now, whether you are man of knowledge, that will be tested next. But if I introduce you that "Here is a man of knowledge..." Similarly if I say, "Here is a man who knows Vedas," so why the objection? Knowledge is for everyone. Why do they take, "Oh, Vedas, oh, it is Hindu"? Immediately you reject.

Dr. Kneupper: I don't think it's so much a question of rejecting the Vedas...

Prabhupāda: No, Vedas, they do not know what is Vedas. They think it is Hindu. This is the difficulty. As soon as you say, "Bhagavad-gītā," "Oh, it is Hindu idea."

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) ...that Kṛṣṇa will (indistinct) money.

Devotee: Also another thing, this is... You may remember when you were in Los Angeles last time, Kṛṣṇa-kanti and Mangalananda asked you if they could do this contemporary style music with Kṛṣṇa lyrics. So this is the very first copy. Actually there's not much to see it's just like any other album. This is the first test pressing.

Hari-śauri: He has a cassette which you can listen to some time if you want.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can listen. Play it.

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That means they do not understand what is the meaning of śāstra. They want to interpret śāstra in their own way. That is the difficulty. Big, big person...

Guest (9): Real testing would be only in India in that case.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa does not speak for Indians. He is for everyone.

Guest (9): The sections of your movement accept in that sense.

Prabhupāda: No, they have given up. They have purposefully given up, that "This religion and śāstra has killed our nation. Better give it up. Throw it in the water." This is the leaders' plea. Therefore they are changing. They have altogether rejected this.

Indian reporter: No, they don't reject. They give religious freedom.

Prabhupāda: What is freedom? That "Whatever you like, you do."

Indian reporter: No, not that.

Prabhupāda: So then what is freedom?

Indian reporter: Whichever religion I like, I am free to follow it.

Prabhupāda: This freedom means you can manufacture your own religion. And this is freedom. They want this freedom, that you can manufacture. Yato mata tato patha, as the Ramakrishna Mission says, that "You can manufacture your own way of religion."

Room Conversation -- December 20, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no interpretation. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We are presenting, "Here is God." You are searching after God, Kṛṣṇa, and they are accepting. They do not (indistinct), what is Kṛṣṇa. What is this? How they are accepting? Because it is the real thing, there is no interpretation. They are not Hindus, they are not born in India. How they have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? They have given up bad habits, no illicit sex. Because you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa unless you are free from all sinful activities. Anyone who is sinful, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That you will understand. Just like if you eat, you will understand that you are eating. Nobody has to convince you. You will be convinced.

Mr. Malhotra: The test of the pudding is by eating. Not by simply telling.

Prabhupāda: When you eat, you haven't got to ask somebody else, "Do you think I am happy?" You'll feel yourself. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). If you are actually devotee, then you will be detestful to all material things. (break) ...mouse of the mountain. (laughter)

Mr. Malhotra: Yes, he was declared mouse of the mountain. (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you want material power, you must be worshiper of Durgā.

Mr. Malhotra: And if you want spiritual...?

Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We have got one little test. You can also use that. Kṛṣṇa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

So you make one test, whether he has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. If he has not done, then he is in these four categories. What are they? Duṣkṛtina, great sinful; mūḍha, rascal; narādhama, lowest of the mankind. And if you say, "Oh, these are so big, big learned scholar," now māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam, asura. Asura's business is to deny Kṛṣṇa and to kill Kṛṣṇa. So all these people, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and they are trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. (devotees chanting) Is it not a fact? All these big big leaders, they'll speak on Bhagavad-gītā, and they will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You surrender to Him."

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Indian man: No, but they have said something in favor of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: But I don't see that they have made one single Kṛṣṇa bhakta, neither they were Kṛṣṇa bhakta. What kind of Bhagavad-gītā they have read I do not know. I see by the result. The last word of Bhagavad-gītā is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto... Mām eva... Sarva-dharmān. That is study of Bhagavad-gītā. They do not speak of Kṛṣṇa anywhere, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, you become a devotee." Now how he has read Bhagavad-gītā? I shall take it? Simply make jugglery of words? We have to see the result. They have neither made one Kṛṣṇa bhakta, neither they were Kṛṣṇa bhakta. How he has read Bhagavad-gītā? Tell me. This is the test. They... Whole country is after Gandhi or Aurobindo or big, big. But who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta under their direction? Now we are simply following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Just see. Thousands are become Kṛṣṇa bhakta. See by practical.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because he was first in Gujarat.

Dr. Patel: Baroda Maharaj, when he, when he did not appear in horse riding test, (indistinct) but he did not want to start the qualification (indistinct) So he came. So Baroda (indistinct) Maharaj knew he has came. Baroda Maharaj was in England then. He called him (indistinct). The same thing as the Britishers did at Baroda. That is, Baroda Maharaj was appreciated.

Prabhupāda: No, he was a person to be appreciated. There is no doubt. He had so many qualifications. But he was also doing yoga practice. When he was put into... No, after getting released from jail, twelve years. He was to be hanged.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: First of all see one man. Test.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was going to mention to him in my letter that I'm surprised how I'm not getting replies to my letters from the people I visited in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why you should inquire from him? If you know that there is difficulty, why should you inquire?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he can then have his Moscow address office get me the replies.

Prabhupāda: Why? Why you are anxious to get their reply? Their country is like that. Why...? Yes. Why should you bother and strain your brain unnecessarily? You should know they are all rascals. That's all. But here we get an opportunity. You can write, present it to... Where is the other book?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. So I can take one. And I can order some more from Stockholm and send them to these people as gift.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. But (Hindi). If you do something tangible, then you will live. And if you do something fictitious, then with your death everything is gone. (Hindi) But here the whole population is duṣkṛti. They are kṛti, but they are doing something wrong: duṣkṛti. How? Prapanna prapa jante mām. This is a miscon..., mischievous activity. Because he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, whatever he has done, it is all mischievous. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Why he has done mischievous activities, mūḍha? The only test is, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, whatever he does it is all mischievous. So immediately go and you'll see.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): This is the test of guru.

Prabhupāda: This is the test. Guru... The supreme guru is Kṛṣṇa, and anyone canvasses for Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, guru's represent... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya. That guru will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. I am now guru. I am Kṛṣṇa. I am avatāra." That is rascaldom. So if you want such rascal, then you'll be cheated. (aside:) Who is bringing prasāda? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Everything is there. Read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Don't misinterpret. That has killed our culture. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they stand: "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. Even recently I had been in Gandhi's aśrama. It is a desert. He was student of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. Vinobhaji also never teaches Kṛṣṇa, but he's a Gītā-pravacana. What Gītā-pravacana without Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is doing that, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This is credit, and this is also, I mean, that this should happen also...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the right movement. This is the test.

Dr. Patel: If all that...

Prabhupāda: Who cares for this Transcendental Meditation? They are not hogging any propaganda. It is coming this ear and going this ear. They don't care for it. So many others have gone. Who cares for them? They are not serious for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they know it is changing the whole civilization.

Haṁsadūta: There's that one verse you were saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that so many Brahmās may come and go...

Prabhupāda: Unless there is opposition, it is not genuine. It is not genuine or it is not serious. Opposition must be there. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead—there is opposition always, from the very beginning of His birth.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: It was a test of his faith.

Rāmeśvara: It was a test of his faith. The same story of Arjuna, he had to kill for Kṛṣṇa. It's actually a good argument when they say that.

Prabhupāda: You have got sugar candy?

Hari-śauri: I don't think she packed any. Oh, sugar? She must have packed it. I'll have to find Pālikā, 'cause she has everything.

Rāmeśvara: They think that if our devotees are willing to do whatever you say, it must mean that they are brainwashed. They have given up their independence, so therefore they are brainwashed. If they are willing to follow anyone blindly, like a slave...

Prabhupāda: That is your instruction also. Jehovah says that you shall not worship any other God. So, Jesus Christ says also that you shall not worship. So that is the way of preaching. That is required.

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: ...I was jumping here. (laughter) 1920 or '21, I came. After my appearing in examination, B.A. test, I came here. By that time I was married. I was married in 1918. (break) Because jubilant, I was jumping. When the waves come, I was jumping, the waves passed. There was one guide, he taught me, Babuji, ei sakava.(?)

Gargamuni: They wear those hats.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...'20, and it is 1977. How many years?

Gurukṛpa: Fifty-seven years.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven years after. (laughs) So the body has not changed? Where is that body? Now I am with stick. (laughter) Then I was jumping. Is not that? I am there. I remember. The body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand? I am the same person. How I am remembering all these things. But I have no... That body is now lost. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Why this simple philosophy these rascals cannot understand? I remember I am not the second man. I am the same person but I haven't got the same body. The whole world this simple philosophy cannot understand. Where is the difficulty? I cannot understand.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: I told Kīrtanānanda, "Give me massage."

Gargamuni: I can remember. I wheeled you down for test.

Prabhupāda: The heart was also very painful still.

Gargamuni: They wanted to take some blood, and I had to stop them.

Prabhupāda: They were examining my brain. Then I thought, "I must go away." I told, "Doctor, I am all right. I can go."

Gargamuni: They wanted to do so many tests. They wanted to take also from spine.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Gargamuni: No. Even in Māyāpur we wake them up at four.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that must be. Why Māyāpur? Vṛndāvana, they are accustomed. Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra... This sleeping is the māyā's influence. It is stated in the... Yā devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpeṇa saṁsthitaḥ.(?) The Devī, this material energy, has captured everyone, and she is there... The more one sleeps, that means he's under the control of māyā. And the more he is not sleeping, he's free from māyā. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over three things: nidrā, sleeping; āhāra, eating; and mating. These things are the clutches of māyā. More we have sex, more we have eating, more we have sleeping, that means I am entangled. The more we conquer over it, we are free. That we have to try. Whether I am in the clutches of māyā or not can be tested—whether I am sleeping more, whether I am eating more, whether I am more sexually inclined. He can test himself. And bhakti means vairāgya-vidyā, to conquer over these three things. So practice this. They are... To rise early in the morning and attend maṅgala-ārati is compulsory. It is part of this education, spiritual education. And not to eat more than necessary. Then you'll not sleep more. You'll find, if you observe fast, you won't feel sleepy. Have you tested this?

Gargamuni: Yes. I can remember.

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Devotee (1): What is the test we can understand someone... If someone says, "I know God," then how can we...

Prabhupāda: Say what is God. Say what is God. What do you mean by God?

Devotee (1): "God is the force moving the universe," he says.

Prabhupāda: Then that means you do not know. Force... A child can also see the force. But behind the force, who is there? Whenever there is force, there must be one person forceful who is forcing. You know that?

Devotee (1): Well, I am in no position to see.

Prabhupāda: That's right. Then learn it from me. Otherwise, if you refuse, then you must be punished. That is my duty.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "They will be." Again promise.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in the test tube. But it's not working. They have synthesized now.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you talk nonsense if it is not working? Therefore you are nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it is good. But we have come to a point now even in science that their promises are all going to go wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to prove. That is our propaganda. Therefore we have engaged you. Prove that they are all rascals. They are giving false promise.

Yogeśvara: But then they will say "We have produced so many successes also."

Prabhupāda: What is nonsense success? We don't take that success!

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: This municipal executive we didn't meet. He's just appointed by the government. He might have just suggested something like "Let's see if they'll do the work without us being very firmly obligated," Just testing us. Exactly what... But we can't do anything like that. But maybe that Gargamuni didn't understand their English very well, or they didn't...

Prabhupāda: So tomorrow you'll go to see whom?

Jayapatākā: I was thinking to go Monday because tomorrow is Sunday.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayapatākā: So many times they've come. I don't see that suddenly their story should change so drastically.

Prabhupāda: They came before also?

Jayapatākā: Oh yes. They came even to Māyāpur. They have shown some enthusiasm and now at the last minute, they'll change their story so much.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ... Son begotten by Lord Śiva in the womb of Pārvatī, he'll be able to conquer over the demons. Kārttikeya. You have heard the name of Kārttikeya? So the, wife of Lord Śiva, Dākṣāyaṇī, committed suicide in the Dakṣa-yajña. She heard blaspheming (of) her husband so immediately she gave up her body: "My father, you have given this body; therefore you are claiming so much from me. I give up this body." So he (she) gave up his (her) body, and the next birth she was born as the daughter of Himalaya king, Pārvatī. And after her death as the daughter of Dakṣa Mahārāja, Lord Śiva was engaged in meditation, very deep meditation. Now the problem was how to wake up Lord Śiva from meditation and engage him again with Pārvatī. Nobody dared. So the Pārvatī was engaged to worship the genital of Lord Śiva. He was in meditation, and he could not be awakened. Kālīdāsa Kavi is giving remark that "Here is dhīra. Here is dhīra, a young girl touching the genital of Lord Śiva and he is not agitated." Adhīra. Dhīra means there is cause of agitation, but one is not agitated. That is called dhīra. And adhīra, everyone. There is cause of agitation in so many ways. Our, this movement, kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, if we remain engaged in kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau, then dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau. Both the dhīra and adhīra will enjoy this kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. This our movement, is for the dhīra. And adhīra also, if he joins this movement, even adhīra also becomes dhīra. This is the test.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is very dangerous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of our devotees in California was kidnapped out of the airport. She was distributing books in the airport in San Francisco, and because the court gave an order to the parents that "For thirty days you can take your daughter and commit her," so they have brought her to Arizona, where they have a special center set up for deprogramming, legal psychological tests. So for thirty days they ran these... They did some... We don't know what's going on there, some horrible things. Now the girl has sent a letter, and it showed that she is no longer in a devotional attitude. She said, "I'm very glad that I was rescued. Otherwise I would have been made to collect money all my life for your society, and now I'm saved from this."

Prabhupāda: She had been dictated to write like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But probably they did some brain thing to her.

Prabhupāda: That is brainwash.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What is that duplication?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the test tube. We are beginning to make life.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore you have no brain. "In test tube..." Kick aside your test tube. This man is now not working; it is stopped. So bring your test tube and waste test tube. Get him alive, exactly like the motorcar. When there is no petrol, you replace petrol; it starts. So where is that material? Therefore you are comparing something which is not analogous. Therefore you have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just because we cannot make the mind doesn't mean that the mind is not material. I may not make it, but still we say it's...

Prabhupāda: No, you say material; we say... We have full knowledge. We say material, but subtle material. But you have no knowledge; therefore you have no brain.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And he was distributing.

Rāmeśvara: They had to give up his food. But actually, it said that these personalities were actually Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā, testing him. So they've shown... How was it shown?

Muralīdhara: He's semi-transparent, so you get the idea that he's there and not there at the same time.

Prabhupāda: Backside.

Muralīdhara: Right behind the...

Hari-śauri: Both of these two figures are the same person. It's just to show that he's actually Lord Śiva, but he's appearing as a beggar.

Muralīdhara: His whole body will show...

Hari-śauri: So he's like a semi-transparent Lord Śiva.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But there was that hand pouring that thing into the test tube, which... No one liked that.

Rāmeśvara: No one heard the reason. I don't like it either, but I understand why they did it. You have to hear both sides, you know.

Hari-śauri: Well, there's always a reason. But you have to get to the point-Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Even it is eso..., esopheric? What is called?

Devotees: Esoteric.

Prabhupāda: Still, Kṛṣṇa must be there.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Like that test tube picture...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā.

Hari-śauri: ...if they'd have showed Kṛṣṇa pouring that mixture into a test tube...

Prabhupāda: That is not good, that Kṛṣṇa is doing, manufacturing test tube.

Rāmeśvara: No, that wasn't the idea.

Brahmānanda: That was a satire. They were showing....

Rāmeśvara: Yes, that was it. It was a satire.

Brahmānanda: The scientist is pouring chemicals, and from this chemical come all these colorful varieties. That wasn't clear.

Rāmeśvara: No one will believe it. Their idea was that... Anyway, I agree. It was a mistake. This issue that's at the printer right now has many pictures of Kṛṣṇa in it. It's a big improvement.

Prabhupāda: So do it very conscientiously.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Asad-grāhān: "There is no God. By science we shall do everything. We shall..." What is this? A mad crazy fellow. And this is going on all over. "Test tube... We shall... Test tube..." Simply set of madmen. And influencing innocent. The rascal, whole civilization, they are. It is a horrible condition. All rascals. And the big rascals, they are enjoying. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Just like a big rascal, a lion is very big, important thing in the forest. What is this? He's animal. So they create importance of this animal. One big animal is being praised by a small animal. That's all. But the whole civilization is animal. And because the small animals are praising the big animals, does it mean it is human society? That is going on. The Mr. Nixon, (laughs) he's an animal, and Mr. John is praising him. That's all. Both of them are animals. Mūḍha. Big animals and small animals. That's all. So we have to stop this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Again time, time-taking. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the matter is completely to be decided. He said, "Either religion wins or we win." He said, "It will be decided pretty soon." I think it is already decided, because we promised about ten years ago that those chemicals, if we make those, then we'll have life in a test tube. But actually we have all those chemicals made. So I said, "We have the know-hows. We have the equipments. We have all the chemicals. But still we can't do it." So that means it's...

Prabhupāda: It is failure. You cannot do.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in principle he agreed that science plays...

Prabhupāda: And Bhagavad-gītā clearly said, it is different thing completely. It is not matter. Nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi. Where is that thing which cannot be cut into pieces? Bring that, any scientist. Bring that thing which cannot be cut by scientific method. Bring that thing which cannot be burned. That is stated. Find out the verse. You cannot neglect the statement of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's all... His next question is, "The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, but the final test of one's faith in Christ rests upon one's hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?"

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So all, everyone died. Only these five brother remained. And Parīkṣit Mahārāja, the grandson of Arjuna, he was in the womb of his mother Uttarā. So he was also attempted to be killed by Aśvatthāmā by brahmāstra. Kṛṣṇa saved him. So anyway, the grandfathers took care of this child, baby in the womb. And when he was born... This is a ceremony, jāta-karma. Just after birth there is a ceremony. This is now gone, daśa, daśa-karaṇa... Nobody is... So they are making horoscope, the brāhmaṇas. "So this child will be like this, like this, like this, like this," Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja's question was that "What you are speaking, that is all right. Whether this child will be to their forefathers' reputation, how to give happiness to the subjects, praja-pālana?" He was anxious, "How much he will be qualified, praja-pālana, how to keep the prajas very happy? First of all see that." This was the test, praja-pālana. And it is stated in this Bhāgavatam... Now find out this ruling of Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, that chapter, first part. So there was not even disease during his reign. Adayo vyadhayaḥ.(?)There was no extreme heat, there was no extreme cold, on account of his rājarṣi. And their only business was to see... And Lord Rāmacandra. How He was maintaining subjects like father. Therefore people are still hankering after rāma-rājya. There is a chapter, "Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's Regime." See the Contents.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ

prapadyante narādhamāḥ

māyayāpahṛta-jñānā

āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ

(BG 7.15)

We test like that. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a mūḍha, duṣkṛtina, narādhama. That is our general definition. How we do it? Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Mūḍhas. So therefore it is required that people should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything is all right. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. Everyone, time will believe. So we can take up, we can immediately begin, but if local people cooperate, then we can do the rest.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the test of first-class yogi. These rascals, they say like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They call that tāntrika-yoga?

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is that also. I... One rascal fool, medical man, was attending my pharmacy. Dr. Ghosh was also. He used to say like that. He was practicing yoga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was... That's what they're all doing.

Prabhupāda: And he'll not discharge. Still remain with his sperm. Yogi. Tāntrika-yogī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tāntrika.

Prabhupāda: And practice yoga in the crematorium. Nine woman friend and sex and perform meditation without discharge.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is called tāntrika-yoga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In that book that had your Kṛṣṇa book quotation there's a thing about tāntrika-yoga, and this very thing is mentioned. What you're telling me now, it's mentioned there, that the test is to have sex and not allow any semina to pass. They mention that.

Prabhupāda: I have mentioned?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they quote from some other authority.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that we...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shall I...?

Prabhupāda: No, I don't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it's confirmed, anyway. Yeah, that's what that Rajneesh says. They asked him, "Why are you with so many women?" He said, "This is the proof, that I am able to be with all these women but not be disturbed." But that doesn't really answer why he's with them. Our point is: "Why are you with them? Never mind whether you're disturbed or... Why are you with them? What benefit are you getting? They are not God. So why are you spending so much time with them?"

Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) So naturally he'll be averse to māyā. He's no more interested. (Hindi) This is the test. Kṛṣṇa-bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ. (Hindi) There is no need of separate endeavor.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is our position. We have to select our worker from the worst class of the society, pāpī and tāpī. But, we shall prove, by hari-nāma they become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the movement. You trace the history of everyone. All worst, third class. And they come here. And that is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. How many Doctor Svarūpa has come? If we speak frankly, (laughter) all from the worst class. Those who were finished. And Kṛṣṇa... It is said, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. Pāpī and tāpī, they are not first class. They are the tenth class. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the test of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, that how many pāpī-tāpīs have been picked up. Brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. This is Gaura-Nitāi. What is their business? Now, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. "Bas? This is their business?" Yes, to deliver all the pāpīs and tāpīs. "So how is that?" Tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. See Jagāi-Mādhāi. It is not imaginary. So we have to deliver all Jagāis and Mādhāis. This is our movement. That is the test of the, of us. It is not sorry for that, but still, they should act like good men.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, forget the past. Push forward.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you once said that sometimes Kṛṣṇa tests to see how sincerely the devotee is determined.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa not only tests but punishes those who are criminals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Criminals.

Prabhupāda: Like Kṛṣṇa punished Durvāsā Muni. He was criminal against Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. Kṛṣṇa never tolerates. Vaiṣṇava may tolerate. Kṛṣṇa will never tolerate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm going to go now to... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...without guidance of spiritual master.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...allowing permanent residence, to suffer for that, that will help us. That will help us. But if they do not do anything, then what is the use of them? What we can expect from them, profit? What we expect? Our real problem is here, that every time, our men has to go out, they kicked out, trained-up men... So if we can at least, as he has asked, submit the names, let us test what they will do. Otherwise what help you expect from them?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only that, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What help you expect from them? For money's concerned, we are selling our books, publication, everything. They are also profiting. We cannot expect any money from government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: So what help we expect?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply some allowing our men to be there like that. Simply allowing our men to remain in the country...

Prabhupāda: That is our request for them.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That they are already presenting. We want this help. Let us see how the judgment... It is a test. And if there is no sympathy, then who would approve? Because we have to mix with these politicians very carefully. They can do more harm than good.

Bhakti-caitanya: They do that. There was one Indira Gandhi's..., like as a guru, Dhirendra Brahmacari, and now every day news, bad news, are coming in the newspaper, we understand, because he becomes very much close to Indira Gandhi and his son. All his yoga-āśrama in Kashmir... He built up big āśrama, and the government, they were giving him aid, many lakhs rupees, every year. Now this Janata government took over. He had a... They took over the land and everything, and now they are going to send even back here, because he was so much mixed with the politicians.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhakti-caitanya: From there we can see that result.

Prabhupāda: So if we mix with these politicians, very bad. Better not to mix. But sometimes this is very important thing, and we have already presented our case. Let us see how he does it. Everywhere you should be very careful about mixing with the politicians.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No test.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No-task.

Prabhupāda: No test. Mother says here is your father. That's all. Finish. You cannot test. Then you are rascal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not test. I said...

Prabhupāda: No, these things cannot be tested.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I'm not saying...

Prabhupāda: Mother says, "Here is your father." That's all. Finish. No test. No question. That is foolishness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was using the word "task." That to... I'll have to bring in Bhakti-prema Swami. Maybe he can speak better. I'm not able to explain. But according to the description in the Bhāgavatam, everything that we've read, it is not petals. So let's... I don't know. On one hand you are asking us to follow the...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says here that "These great Nobel Prize-winners have made protoplasm from inert substances simulating the conditions that prevailed in the primitive atmosphere of the earth. Do they know that human egg and sperm cells can be fertilized in test tubes and the fetus developed in an artificial womb or in the womb of a hired woman? Among animals that evolved on this planet..."

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? There are millions of wombs. Why you should hire? If there is scarcity of womb, then we can hire. You rascal, you hire. You do not know. We see, without hiring there are millions of wombs, and they are producing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that they can do it.

Gurukṛpa: They haven't done it yet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Among animals that evolved on this planet, man is the only animal that has progressed in all his activities. This he achieved through his knowledge in science. While all organisms continue to live even today as their forebears did millions of years ago, man alone has progressed..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. There are uncivilized men. Without any knowledge they can produce children. Do they have any scientific knowledge? How they are producing children? The same man, the same woman, the same child.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Kīrtanānanda: ...urine tested this morning, and there was some blood and pus in the urine. So the doctor there, he's prescribed some tablets and things. Do you want?

Prabhupāda: Who is the doctor?

Kīrtanānanda: Bhagatji? Where's Bhagatji?

Hari-śauri: Who was that doctor?

Bhagatji: Dr. Gopal in Rama-Krishna Seva Ashram. Physician. He's an M.D. He is the best doctor in Mathurā district.

Kīrtanānanda: He said it is not... It's just one or two times you'd have to take.

Bhagatji: To check the blood. And I can call him to see you, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Let me taste this.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhagatji: This is blood urea to be tested. The other doctor, one of the best doctors, he said that blood urea should be tested because there is pus, and this blood will be defect. And the aluminium also, Prabhupāda... Charvery(?) is also passing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Charvey?(?)

Bhagatji: Two, three.

Kīrtanānanda: What does he need to do this test? More urine?

Bhagatji: He will take some blood.

Prabhupāda: But that is the difficulty.

Hari-śauri: Yes. No blood. Prabhupāda doesn't want a blood test.

Prabhupāda: Let me taste the tablet.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He had some trouble. So, what is called? Pathology?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pathology? No.

Prabhupāda: No, laboratory testing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's laboratory test called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pathology?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So his case was transferred to another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Oh, boy.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would have created havoc with his testing.

Prabhupāda: I am not going to die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they make you, if you don't have the disease, then they'll make sure you get it, simply to be right.

Prabhupāda: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good (indistinct), that's all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I'll not object, I will follow. Is that all right?

Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whatever you tell us is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. And from Vrindavan, if he's not getting business stop all, everything.