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Supposed to be (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Because you are so rascal, you do not know that "I cannot move even an inch and I am making plan." That is the proof that you are a rascal.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Tena vinā tṛṇam api na calati. That is the way.

Harikeśa: But why are people in the capital...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we call them all rascals. That is our confirmation of our statement. Mūḍhas, you all rascals, without any exception. Hm? The other day the high-court judge, he's supposed to be the most intelligent person within this state, high-court judge, and he was talking so many nonsense.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Because he thinks he knows, he does not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: One who thinks he knows...

Prabhupāda: Manyamāna, manyamāna. He is thinking he is very intelligent.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: He also inherits the debt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is India's law. You cannot simply inherit father's property and no debt. You inherit father's debt also. So a father dies debted, indebtor—he is supposed to be enemy because the son has to pay. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi.(?)And mother, if she marries for the second time in spite of presence of children, she is enemy. And in Western countries it is very common affair.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Divorce and remarry.

Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Now everyone is hankering after very beautiful wife, and Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "Then you are bringing one enemy." Just see what is the type of civilization. Because if you become too much attached to wife, then you'll never be able to go out of home and take sannyāsa.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: Yeah, they find those seven-, eight-year-old, they attend better a small, private reading.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But one thing is that if they can attend, even by hearing the Vedic mantras they'll be benefited. Even they.... Therefore I give stress on chanting the mantra, so that if one cannot chant and can under.... Simply by hearing, he'll be benefited. (break) Hm.

Jayapatākā: I haven't seen personally. Have you seen them outside? It was supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: So, where is the painting?

Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara said it's ready to see.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then let us go see. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Little dark is. But not bad. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Jadurāṇī was saying he paints dark. He usually.... His style is to paint with dark colors

Prabhupāda: No, no. It should be bright because...

Devotee (3): Effulgent.

Rādhāvallabha: Also, he was worried that when the sun hits it, after a certain time it will just fade away.

Prabhupāda: Then we should use such color which may not fade away. The picture is all right. The picture is all right. Simply it has to be made more bright. It is India. It is not London, always foggy. (laughter) (end)

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: India has no, had no such ideas. They are borrowing ideas. India's idea is self-realization. Live very simple life—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. The brāhmaṇas, they are living simple life, becoming very learned scholar, pure character, advanced in spiritual life—one class, ideal. And kṣatriyas, they are supposed to be the king. They distribute the land on nominal taxation, and the vaiśyas utilize the land for cultivation and cow-keeping, and the śūdras, they are engaged as weaver, blacksmith, goldsmith, mean other necessities of life. In this way the whole society is simplified, and the central point is how to become advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness by cooperation. This is India's civilization. There is no question of industry. Ugra-karma. It has been condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā as ugra-karma, laboring very hard for livelihood. This industry means engage the poor worker class to work very hard, and there is huge profit, and some directors of the capitalists, they take it. And they have one dozen motorcars, palatial building, no work, simply wine and woman, that's all. This is going on. And the others, they are seeing: "There is no classification, neither real brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya. So he is enjoying like that. He has got so many cars. He has got such a nice apartment. Why not me?" There is struggle. This is actual picture.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But you are doing the same thing. Otherwise why you are reforming? Who is reforming unless the one class is very intelligent? The same situation. You.... Your, what is that rascal's name?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mao Tse Tung.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mao. Mao.

Prabhupāda: So he is supposed to be intelligent. He is supposed to be intelligent. So the two classes already there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he says everyone can be equally intelligent.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but these classes must remain, the teacher class and the student class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's what they do. They take the teachers.... This is one of their program. Actually we have written a report which explains. They take the teachers, and they send the teachers out into the factory and into the farms for years.

Prabhupāda: So anywhere you send, the student and teacher class is there. You change the name, you change the process, it doesn't matter, but the student class and teacher class will always remain. That is your foolishness. You are simply changing different names. But originally, as planned by nature, that is always there.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: They haven't got, karmīs?

Devotee (1): Some of them do.

Prabhupāda: What is the idea? You are asking question? Without have watches? We can live without watches? What is the idea?

Devotee (1): Well they're..., usually they'll say we're.... If we are supposed to be spiritualists, then why do we have so many cars, why do we have so many watches, why do we have so many different things that they can see are there within the temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We acquire them without any effort. We are not after these things. But Kṛṣṇa sends, we take—so many cars, so many watches, so many houses for propaganding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why shall I be greedy?

Devotee (1): Simply we are preaching and everything comes.

Prabhupāda: Everything necessary. Whatever is necessary will come. Kṛṣṇa has supplied. For us there is no such distinction as "material" and "spiritual." Because this material, so-called material, that is God's creation. When it is used for God, that is spiritual. Who has created this tree? You have created? Man has created this tree? Who has created?

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Jayādvaita: They've been after you for so long in New Vrindaban.

Prabhupāda: New Vrindaban climatic condition is not so good. Here the climatic condition is good. Four months this climate is very good. It is in the central part of America?

Mādhavānanda: Little north.

Prabhupāda: North. So north is supposed to be cooler.

Hari-śauri: In the winter it's not so good. Winter's very bad.

Prabhupāda: Winter eight months? No. In winter this water becomes solid. You know that?

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes in Detroit there's three foot of snow, and the winter is, it's a very deep winter here, but the summer is nice.

Prabhupāda: You convince your countrymen that "It is a great sinful activity that you are killing your mother. You stop this. If you want to eat meat, you can eat some other, nonimportant animals. There are so many." The Chinese they are eating rats also. Cats, rats, everything.

Devotee: Monkeys.

Prabhupāda: Monkeys also. So monkey's the forefather of Darwin. Better kill them so that there is no opportunity of criticism that "You are coming from monkey." You extinct this species. It is rather insulting. If I say that you are descendant of monkey, then it is insult. So extinct this monkey. I don't think there is monkey here. Africa there is monkey. You have been in Africa? There are monkey-eating birds. Top of the tree, monkey, they catch up on the head and drop it from high. And then they take it. (pause) There was a boat which belonged to this house. I think he has sold it.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is God; whatever He likes, you have to supply. That is God. Why He likes, we cannot question. That is not the business of the servant. So as servant we simply obey the orders. That's all. That is real servant. Is there any instance the servant is asking, "Why you are asking me to supply you this?" Therefore what would be the position of the servant? He would be dismissed. Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ. That is very dangerous.

duṣṭā bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitraṁ
bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ
sa-sārpe ca gṛhe vāso
mṛtyur eva na saṁśayaḥ

Duṣṭā bhāryā. If wife is polluted, duṣṭā bhāryā, and śaṭhaṁ mitram, and friend is a hypocrite.... Duṣṭa bhāryā ṣaṭhaṁ mitram. What is that? Bhṛtyaś cottara-dāyakaḥ, and servant does not obey, gives answer or, yes, if your master asks, "Give me this," if he says, "Why are you asking?" Such kind of bhṛtya, servant, and polluted wife and hypocrite friend, three, and a snake within the bedroom.... (break) Family means father, mother, wife, children. Generally this is family. So family members are supposed to be all friendly, in one accord, so that family life is peaceful. But sometimes the family members become enemies. So how they become enemies? That is given by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita: mātā śatruḥ, ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. Father is enemy if he's a debtor, he dies a debtor. According to Vedic law, because the son inherits the property of father, he's responsible also for the debts of the father, by law. A father dies debtor, so the creditor can claim from his son. So therefore ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ. A father who dies a debtor, he's enemy. Mātā śatrur dvicāriṇī. Mother becomes enemy when she accepts another husband in the presence of children. Mātā śatrur dvicāriṇī. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatruḥ is father and mother.

Morning Walk Conversation -- June 20, 1976, Toronto:

Satsvarūpa: The brāhmaṇa was supposed to be learned in the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. And he said, "These are all...," what is called? Mythology. Why mythology? Why do you think God like you? God is all-powerful; He can do anything. That is real faith. That means you have no faith. "If God can do which tallies with my activities, then I shall believe." What you are? Nonsense. This is their general argument. How we can believe this? And why not believe this? You are seeing so many wonderful things. I gave this example to another man, that there is a coconut tree. Now find out where is the pipe and pumping so that the water is pushed. Show me. You have no idea that such a high height, how water is going there. And full of water. How the water is transferred there? Show me the pipe and pump. You have got the idea, that with pipe and pump we can raise the water. Where is that pipe and pump? Show me. Every day, every moment, we are seeing so many wonderful things. How you are thinking.... "I am Dr. Frog. Pacific Ocean may be four feet. All right, five feet. Make compromise, ten feet." (laughter) Rascal. If you think for many millions of years, then you'll have no solution. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-sampragamyo (Bs. 5.34). It is not possible in that way. They have no idea of God.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: This Śrī Chinmoy is supposed to be this resident guru at the United Nations.

Prabhupāda: Whatever he may be, but we have got our own formula to understand.

Hari-śauri: He did a practical demonstration of what he said a person who is in touch with God can be capable of doing if he allows himself to become an instrument of God. So for eight months he painted continually, and he produced 27,000 paintings, and he said that this was proof that he was God realized.

Prabhupāda: Mauna, the word begins with mauna.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "If you want to keep it a private property, then the ISKCON name should not be utilized." Here you have understood that he's trying to utilize ISKCON's name...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: To collect.

Prabhupāda: ...to collect, and he'll be keeper. That should be frankly disclosed, that "This is not possible." So we shall write our Upendra? No, I have already written that he should be the secretary. No?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You mentioned earlier today that he was supposed to be one of the trustees, but now this is different, so...

Prabhupāda: So we are not going to make any trustee.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, no trustee.

Prabhupāda: That is wrong.

Kīrtanānanda: I understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So in this way write him, "I am very much anxious to get your clear reply to this thing." Is that all right?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now understanding these basic differences, to study the origin of life has some meaning. But scientists studying the origin of life, they have no idea about these fundamental differences. So they claim that life actually is a manifestation of matter. In other words, life comes from molecules. They call it "molecule to man" theory. That we will see in the next slide. Now in this slide the molecules is called primordial chemical soup. Now these chemicals are supposed to be formed from simple, reduced substances like water and ammonia and carbon and hydrogen compounds. They are called hydro-carbons. Now these somehow, under the action of ultra-violet radiation or cosmic force, they combine together and form these amino acids. Now these amino acids, in due course of time, form the polymers called proteins. And similarly, several polymeric compounds develop and, given a long period of time, we've shown there chance and given a long period of time, then it's going to bring life, it's going to give life. That is the fundamental background of the scientific study of origin of life. This is what they have proposed. These molecules, somehow they combine, given enough length of time, billions of years as the time period, and then it's bound to happen. They say, given enough length of time...

Prabhupāda: Provided he lives billions of years. But he's finished within fifty years. (laughter) And his theory remains. The rascal cannot remain more than fifty years, and he's talking of billions of years. This is the defect. Who will see after billions of years? He is finished within hundred years. These are theories only. We see practically. Egg appears like chemical combination, but if you give, proper fermentation will come, fermentation?

Devotee: Fermentation.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Dr. Sukla: I think they try to be impersonal.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. They are supposed to be great personalities, but not a single person was converted.

Dr. Sukla: (indistinct) ...he was asked who is such a master. He pointed out could not answer who can be such a master. He posed himself as a spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: So here is an opportunity to preach real India's traditional culture. So those who are Indians present here, they should cooperate. They should not mislead further.

Dr. Sukla: We have started teaching your Gītā at Georgetown University, where I teach. Before we had, we have two years course of Sanskrit, and we had some excerpts from Mahābhārata and some Pañca-tantra and so on, but there was no Gītā. So I decided and we were using the entire Gītā for the second year. Your contributions can't be duplicated.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda is coming back in about five minutes, he's just going to the bathroom. (break) (Prabhupāda returns) ...original Back to Godhead.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We got it from the Library of Congress.

Prabhupāda: So God is great. Now we have to analyze what is the greatness. A man is supposed to be great when he is very rich. A man is supposed to be great when he is very wise, man of knowledge, strength, reputation. So item by item, you analyze and see, you'll see Kṛṣṇa is the greatest. By reasoning. Therefore He is God. They have been analyzed. You'll find in The Nectar of Devotion, the Gosvāmīs have analyzed the characteristics of Kṛṣṇa, and they found Him the greatest. So if God is great, and He is the greatest, then He is God. How can you deny it? At least, we can see in the Bhagavad-gītā, the little knowledge given by Kṛṣṇa, it is still standing as the greatest. Five thousand years past, nobody could give such a book of knowledge throughout the whole world. The Bhagavad-gītā is studied not only by the Indians and Hindus but by all scholars of the world. Even such persons who think that there is somebody greater than Kṛṣṇa, they also read Bhagavad-gītā and they recite from the Bhagavad-gītā. Even Śaṅkarācārya, the leader of the Māyāvādīs, he says Bhagavad-gītā kiñcid adhītā. Is it not? Does he not say?

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The sterilization has no meaning. The living entity will stay. Otherwise, how it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ? Find out.

Hari-śauri: You were saying yesterday that in all state of matter there is always some living condition to be found. Even in a body that is supposed to be dead, there is life coming from it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually when the body dies, we say that it decomposes, actually that decomposition is done by small microbes. These microbes at this big body...

Prabhupāda: They become prominent, that's all. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Light.

Prabhupāda: Light. Fire means heat and light.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is magnetism?

Prabhupāda: Magnetism also another action of the fire. We used to do that. Rubbing, rubbing, rubbing.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (2): Your Grace? How can a person tell what his or her occupation or duty is supposed to be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, duty is already prescribed, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So this is the duty. "You give up all other duties, you simply take to Me, surrender unto Me." This is duty. All other duties, they are temporary, and this is real duty, to surrender to God. If you think that "I am giving up all other duties, my family duties, my community duty, my national duty and so many..." Because you may think like that, that "Giving up all duties, I simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious...," as Arjuna was thinking. But Kṛṣṇa gives you assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry, I shall give protection. If you think that by giving up all other duties you'll be sinful, so I give you assurance that I shall give you all protection." It is clearly stated. So this is the only duty, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and become His perfect devotee. This is the only duty.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: End of the day of Brahmā. End of fourteen Manus.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At that time is the earth destroyed, or is it simply covered by water?

Prabhupāda: Covered by water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That can explain many facts, because they're having great difficulty in finding these old fossils, in Siberia, and all these other places, they find some strange fossils, which are not supposed to be there according to their theory.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But if we accept this catastrophism, this can explain many facts.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The rocks also have offspring, if they're living?

Prabhupāda: That offspring is mouse. (laughter) There is information the rocks were flying.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we say that you take an egg and find out the chemicals and put it into the incubator or under a chicken, get life, "No, wait millions of years." This bluffing. And this moon planet going means Arizona. That is now disclosed. They take photographs in the Arizona. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take photographs where?

Hari-śauri: In Arizona. There's an article, and it showed a picture of Mars and it compared, there's supposed to be this canyon four miles deep. So they said it compares to the Grand Canyon in Arizona, like that. So Prabhupāda said that by even mentioning Arizona they've revealed themselves. And he told one story about, there's a man, he heard a noise in his room, and he said, "Ah, who is that?" And immediately the reply came, "Oh, I'm not stealing." So even without asking, they've revealed themselves by saying Arizona, even mentioning Arizona.

Prabhupāda: Why these rascals compare it with Arizona? As if there is no other place in the world. Everything they are doing in Arizona. All photograph in this place. Now they have been caught. I was always protesting, "These rascals have never gone." For the last ten years I've protested. Whenever they asked me, I say straightly, "It is all childish. They have never gone, neither they'll be able to go." That has been proof available. Now they do not talk about it. That is finished, all propaganda, finished.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's another one, "Hypnotism or Meditation." A hypnotist discusses a question that many face. Because they accuse that we're hypnotizing, so they're trying to distinguish in this article what is hypnotism, what is meditation. Then here's another one, "The Art of Awareness." This woman is supposed to be a great transcendental artist. You can see some of her famous pictures. Here's a picture called "Congregations of Souls." And here's another picture called "Temple Stones." Then this is the Gansfield effect. (laughter) Ping-pong balls. Says here "The apparently pop-eyed lady is not a visitor from another dimension nor the victim of a sudden surprise. She is the subject of an experiment into the nature of meditation and some of the effects of the processes. The ping-pong ball halves present a completely continuous visual field. There's no object in it that can hold her attention. After staring at the insides of the ping-pong balls for a while, she will begin to feel peaceful and..."

Prabhupāda: Actually she does?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, that's the meditation. They put the ping-pong ball, and then it describes, "She will feel peaceful and serene. At the same time she may not be able to tell whether her eyes are open or closed. She will see neither white nor black nor any shade in between. She will have the experience of not seeing. At that point, which the subject in this kind..."

Prabhupāda: With the eyes closed, then not seeing is there already. (laughter) What is the use of meditating?

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Because whatever we are discovering, it will be taken away by death. So discover something which will stop death. And that is real discovery.

Indian man (1): But don't you think it will be a bad thing, because there are some bad people in the world, like Hitler and Stalin and others, they may be the first people to use the technology to prolong their life?

Prabhupāda: The thing is, bad or good, everyone will be taken away by death. Is it not a fact? Hitler is no longer existing, neither Stalin nor Gandhi. Gandhi was supposed to be very good man. He's also taken by death, and Hitler is also taken by death. And Stalin also taken. And I'll also, you will be also. So death will take away everyone. There is no doubt about it. Therefore discover something which will stop death. That is real discovery.

Guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda? Which is the most important chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Every word is important.

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Every word. Beginning from dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1), every word.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: First class.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...of the human society. But actually it's one body, one entity already, simply that with different activities that we have to perform. The example is given, mukhe bāhūru pāda-ja: That there is the head; there's the arms; there's the belly, the abdomen; and then there is the legs. And all of them are part of the same body. So you might say that the legs are removed from the head, or that the head is removed from the stomach, but actually it's all one body and it works together. But the head gives direction to the whole body, how to act properly, so that the benefit is there to be derived. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is creating a class of brāhmaṇas, or heads of human society, who can give direction to the whole sphere of human activities so that they can become successful in human life. So in reality, we're not trying to create farmers, we're trying to create brāhmaṇas. But our farming communities are, so to speak, an example, an ideal example how human society can live: some people in the capacity of preachers, some people in the capacity of farmers, how so many activities can go on—various occupations—but all of them can be God-centered. So in reality, these people, they're farmers, they're out there on their tractor, they can jump off their tractor at any moment and preach the highest philosophy, because actually they're brāhmaṇas. They (are the) intelligent class of men. So it's one entity. The basic principle is that modern society is neglecting to train up—especially young men, you can see that in spite of so many universities throughout the world—these young men are being trained up how to become women-hunters and debauches. Going to the bars, going to the gambling houses, and they are supposed to be educated people. So real education is how to train up one to have ideal character, to become a brāhmaṇa.

Guest (1): Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Our men's productive. There must be food production, otherwise how the society will live. That is also a requirement. Good direction required, good government required, good production required, and good worker required. You can explain that there is no understanding of spiritual life. That they are missing the opportunity of human life.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And when they'll fall?

Bali-mardana: When the earthquake comes, boom, everything finished.

Hari-śauri: That structure you saw in Toronto, that big tower? That's supposed to be the highest free-standing structure in the world. Over fifteen hundred feet.

Bali-mardana: In Boston there is one big skyscraper, John Hancock Building, and they cannot utilize it because... What is the reason?

Ādi-keśava: Every time the wind blows it begins to bend back and forth in the breeze.

Bali-mardana: It swings.

Ādi-keśava: It swings back and forth in the breeze, and all the windows fell out. When we were two years ago in Boston, every day we used to hear how more windows had fallen in, so they made it all with wood. So it was a huge skyscraper with wood in the windows instead of glass.

Bali-mardana: Still they are not utilizing it.

Ādi-keśava: No, it's still bent, it cracked open.

Bali-mardana: It cost them over sixty, seventy million dollars and they cannot use it.

Ādi-keśava: It cracked all the concrete in the sidewalk because it was bending back and forth.

Prabhupāda: Which way?

Devotee (1): Left.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Could you tell me a little bit about your educational system that you have helped to establish, particularly here in the States.

Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.

Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.

Interviewer: As?

Prabhupāda: As mother.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He sees every woman as his mother.

Prabhupāda: That is the standard of education.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: But what if they asked you, "What is this all about?"

Prabhupāda: No, this is for spiritual realization. If you chant, then, gradually, you realize yourself that you are a spiritual being; you are not this body. Then his spiritual life begins. Actually human life is meant for spiritual realization, and if one does not spiritually realize his identity, then he remains an animal. That is the difference between animal and man. Man is supposed to be spiritually realized.

Interviewer: How is that spiritual dimension realized?

Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hollow. Called the formless form.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.

Devotee: That's supposed to be pleasing to the eye, it's supposed to bring pleasant thoughts into the mind. (laughter) It simply makes them crazy.

Rāmeśvara: It's like the "emperor's new clothes." Everyone thinks it is pleasing because the leaders or the artists say it is pleasing. Everyone is being fooled. And if they say it is meaningless then they are called a fool.

Prabhupāda: In Bengali it is called pare mukhe jhalma(?). Somebody says "Oh, it is very hot!" "Oh, it is very hot!" (laughter) He did not taste, but the other man says "Oh, it is very hot!" So he says "Oh, it is very hot!" Pare mukhe jhalma.

Rāmeśvara: The city pays these artists hundreds of thousands of dollars to make these forms. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...it is constructed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Metropolitan Museum of Art extension.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (pause) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can return back now. This one is older, this is new. There are twice as many floors in the same amount of space. It's actually double. (break) ...think there's an advancement in living conditions. Seems to be worsening, but they're taking it as advancement. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About the same as Mercedes. Ten thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nandaki, is it as good mechanically as a Mercedes?

Devotee: No, I don't think so.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mercedes is very sturdy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The comfort's better.

Devotee: But after two years this all becomes finished, all this. Starts falling apart.

Prabhupāda: But Mercedes is strong.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He's educating.

Interviewer: He's trying to show them a different way?

Prabhupāda: Not different way, he's educating differently.

Bali-mardana: So they can understand what they're doing, what they're supposed to be doing.

Interviewer: He's educating them to what? That this jail life is no good?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: That the jail life is no good?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: But then is that man that's hammering the bricks, isn't he going to quit hammering the bricks, too?

Prabhupāda: He may not hammer, he's giving instruction. Just like I was invited in Ahmedabad jail to give some instruction. So I'm not hammering on the bricks because I was in the jail.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Harikeśa: This boy brought this. I wanted to just ask you if this is any good or not. This is nutmeg oil.

Hari-śauri: This is the oil I was telling you about.

Harikeśa: And this is Ax Brand Universal Oil, supposed to be for massages or something.

Prabhupāda: Chinese?

Harikeśa: (indistinct) This is Chinese.

Hari-śauri: It's got different..., says menthol crystal, peppermint oil, eucalyptol oil, menthol salicilate, oil of lavender, chloroform BP, camphor powder, and white oil.

Prabhupāda: What is for?

Harikeśa: Supposed to be for massaging.

Hari-śauri: It's supposed to help the muscles.

Prabhupāda: And what is this?

Hari-śauri: Nutmeg oil. This is the one I was telling you about.

Prabhupāda: They're all selling all this?

Hari-śauri: No, this is not ours.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Very good. This should be arranged with lemon juice. If you have got these fruits, there is no need of purchasing.

Bhagavān: The tomatoes are supposed to be as good as oranges. The tomatoes are supposed to be as healthy as oranges.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In our childhood, these tomatoes were called foreign eggplant, bilāti beguna. And because it was foreign, nobody will touch it. In our childhood we'd never eat the tomato. It was rejected by whole Indian Hindu culture.

Harikeśa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy. So we should be intelligent enough that if by practicing in this one life I can get next eternal blissful life of knowledge, why shall I deviate? Even if there is some difficulty, let me tolerate, what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given so easy, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be done perfectly. So where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not bluffed. He said kalau nāsty eva: the Kali-yuga you cannot do anything more. You do simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? A boy can chant. It is simply practice, association. Your son, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. So these chances should be given to everyone, then everything will be all right. Let him be practiced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then everything will go on. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Where is the difficulty? Unless we make it difficult. Otherwise there is no difficulty. Otherwise suffering. Just like this lamb. It has got the Iranian body, but he's kept there for being killed. So what is the benefit of this Iranian body? But people are very much enthusiastic to remain nationalists, "I am Iranian, I am American, I am this, I am that." So, but he has worked in a different way, so he has got attachment for becoming American and Iranian, "All right you become." And according to work you have to become a lamb. And other Iranians eat you. That's all. This is designation. They do not understand, or they are not educated that what he will get by these designations. Big, big movement is going on on this designation platform. In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he is supposed to be a great personality, but what is his teaching? He remained in designation, that's all. Feel like Indian and drive away the English. And one designation, you drive away another designation. This is going on. And he took Bhagavad-gītā, he never said "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is going on. Karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa sakale viṣera bandha. This is karma-kāṇḍa. Designation movements. And higher than this karma-kāṇḍa, the mental speculators, jñāna-kāṇḍa. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura (says) both of them viṣera bandha. Pot of poison. If you waste your time in this way, then they will get another body, that's all. Nana yoni bhraman kare kadārya bhakṣana kare, tara janma adha pate yaya. These are simple words but, it contains very, very grave meaning. This is Vaiṣṇava ācārya.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Why not? Yes. As soon as ready I shall go.

Pradyumna: As soon as ready you will come. We're not waiting for any minister or something to come or anything?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: He's supposed to be here now.

Prabhupāda: Just see if he's coming actually. Otherwise...

Pradyumna: But as soon as we are ready you will come down?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Maṇihāra: Now England is finished. Everybody is completely unhappy. Nobody is happy in England. The rich men, once they were happy, now they are having their money taken away by the government. They are taxing, taxing, taxing, all the time. And the poor people, they have nothing anyway. Nobody has anything to talk about. Nothing to be proud of in England. Everybody is leaving. Every day in the newspaper you read such-and-such has happened.

Prabhupāda: You are Englishman?

Maṇihāra: Yes.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: It's a sinful reaction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They expanded their empire. Where is that empire now? The expansion of empire began during Victoria's time. Victoria's time.

Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Language difficulty is there. That we have to solve.

Commissioner: Therefore training has to be done here and in other places, and a center has to be there. You could plan one of those with...

Prabhupāda: Yes, plan is there. Just like we are doing. And we can give you in detail. Provided you accept this principle that we shall abide by the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.

Commissioner: Who questions the Gītā and the Upaniṣads?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gītā. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. They'll never talk of Kṛṣṇa any time. Banish Kṛṣṇa. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gītā-Press edition.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad bhaktaḥ, and he says it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person. Just see how misleading it is. And if a person like Dr. Radhakrishnan, Gandhi, misleads, then who will hear me? What I am? There is one big person in Bombay, he said that he has set aside ten lakhs of rupees for Gītā-pracāra. But when I proposed Gītā-pracāra means Kṛṣṇa pracāra, so he said, "No, I want Gītā without Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see, he is (Hindi), very big man, and he's such a rascal. He has no sense what he is doing.

Akṣayānanda: Plainly you have described in the Gītā. You have described plainly in the Gītā. No one else has done that. Cinmayananda's, this, that rascal, no one has. No one has explained that. They don't know.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone who is not in our disciplic succession, he's not a human being. Cinmayananda, Vivekananda, this-ānanda, they simply... Ānanda, there is no ānanda. All nirānanda. What Cinmayananda? He is supposed to be very big sannyāsī, what he has done?

Akṣayānanda: What has he done? He advertised in the paper for young boys.

Prabhupāda: There is one gentleman, Sadajivatra in Bombay. You know him?

Akṣayānanda: Sadaji Mahatma?

Prabhupāda: Sadajivatra.

Akṣayānanda: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) proprietor.

Akṣayānanda: I know of him.

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent. He has said to a friend, that Bhaktivedanta Swami (Hindi) Kāla means, that he has made all other so-called sannyāsīs, yogis, black-faced.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent. He has said to a friend, that Bhaktivedanta Swami (Hindi) Kāla means, that he has made all other so-called sannyāsīs, yogis, black-faced.

Akṣayānanda: (laughs) Jaya. He is intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Swami sata mukala.(?)

Akṣayānanda: It's true. It's true.

Prabhupāda: Now here is a big sannyāsī, Akhandanandan, or Bon Maharaja. They are supposed to be big, big sannyāsī.

Akṣayānanda: I do not know what Akhandanandan does.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, (indistinct) And this Anandamaya. Actually I am not proud, but what they have done in comparison to me?

Akṣayānanda: Yes, they've done nothing.

Prabhupāda: He has said sata mukala.

Akṣayānanda: Mukala.

Prabhupāda: Kāla. Kāla means lajjita. Black face. Everyone should be ashamed. They may be envious on account of their failure, but if you come to the actual valuation, sata mukala. That's a fact.

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone can say like that. What you have done as God? God is an Indian. Making things very complicated.

Hari-śauri: Yes, and this man goes on to describe the aura. He goes on to describe how spiritual his presence is. They chant oṁkāra. They chant oṁkāra.

Prabhupāda: So, anything about us? He criticized "God is an Indian," that is a criticism.

Hari-śauri: No, no. This is a glorification. He's a nationalist; so he's saying God is an Indian. 'Cause it's supposed to be very good.

Prabhupāda: How God can be Indian? Then how he's God? God must be for everyone. An Indian God.

Hari-śauri: He says here that he is the image of Kṛṣṇa incarnate.

Prabhupāda: He says?

Hari-śauri: He says, "They say that he's Śiva and Pārvatī combined together. He certainly embodies both masculinity and femininity. Kṛṣṇa, as we read of Him in the scriptures, must have resembled Swamiji. His walk is that of a dancer floating in a graceful movement."

Prabhupāda: All right. I will take rest.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: "Purport: The cloud of dust covered the entire horizon, but when drops of blood sprayed up as far as the sun, the dust cloud could no longer float in the sky. A point to be observed here is that although the blood is stated to have reached the sun, it is not said to have reached the moon. Apparently, therefore, as stated elsewhere in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the sun, not the moon, is the planet nearest the earth. We have already discussed this point in many places. The sun is first, then the moon, then Mars, Jupiter and so on. The sun is supposed to be 93,000,000 miles above the surface of the earth, and from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we understand that the moon is 1,600,000 miles above the sun. Therefore the distance between the earth and the moon would be about 95,000,000 miles. So if a space capsule were traveling at the speed of 18,000 miles per hour, how could it reach the moon in four days? At that speed, going to the moon would take at least seven months. That a space capsule on a moon excursion has reached the moon in four days is therefore impossible."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So my reason is alright?

Hari-śauri: Oh yeah.

Prabhupāda: Modern scientists (Hindi—about challenge)

Guest: (Hindi conversation)

Prabhupāda: Whatever Mars going? Finished.

Room Conversation -- November 15, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. What? People also do not ask that "How you become God?" That's also so foolish. They accept any rascal as God. That Rajneesh, what he is? He advertises "Bhagavān," and there are many rascals, they accept him. What he has done? (Hindi)

Mr. Saxena: How to stop it then?

Prabhupāda: Stop, but unless you are intelligent, how it can be stopped? If the people are not intelligent, the cheaters will cheat. It is very...

Mr. Saxena: But Swamiji, mostly educated persons, Ph.D, D.Litt., M.A., postgraduates, they are the followers of this.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are supposed to be very learned but actually they're fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These so-called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking this debauch, as God. That also ignorance. He does not know what is God.

Mr. Saxena: Yes, because education is no education now.

Prabhupāda: He does not know. We have got the definition of God,

aiśvaryasya samāgrasya
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
ṣaṇṇaṁ bhāga itiṅgaṇa
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, vīryasya all strength, all faith yaśasaḥ, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He showed all these things. Aiśvaryasya... For example Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons. Woman requires very nice accommodation, sons, husband, that is their ambition that He fulfilled, although he married sixteen thousand one hundred and eight wives. This is aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. This so-called rascal Bhagavān, who has shown this? Why shall I accept this cheap god? Show me something that you are God. Seven years old Kṛṣṇa, He lifted the Govardhana hill.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1976, Vrndavana:

Mahākṣa: I did not know. I thought it would be a good opportunity. They promised me they would give us a good program and good accommodation. When we got there, they did not like that we were very popular. (tape breaks up throughout) Then Mr. Bishop (indistinct) brother, T.C. (break) ...tour, he is a good man. He came with... (break) He is one of the most respected men in Bareilly. He forced them to put the program back again. So we did again the same evening. The people there love our program. They are all supposed... They have pictures of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the stage and they're supposed to be following Him but they sing all these sahajiyā sort of songs and they sit down and it's all gṛhasthas. There's no, There's no real...

Prabhupāda: They want business.

Mahākṣa: Just a business. We also had a program with Dr. Gupta (?). That was a nice program. And his wife she cooked some Bengali prasādam for us. We took our lunch there. That was very nice.

Prabhupāda: I think that he is disciple of Tīrtha Mahārāja.

Mahākṣa: Yes. But his son... His house, they have so many pictures of Ramakrishna and Sai Baba. His son is telling him to not follow the same like his father. And his father did not speak. He only spoke about three words. He's suffering from some rheumatism or something. Anyway, we had a good kīrtana there. (break) No, I never say, I never say.

Akṣayānanda: But all the people who are Sai Baba followers, they all do have some activity in the mode of ignorance. They eat meat or onions. By their symptoms, we can see that they're in the mode of ignorance.

Mahākṣa: ...at Meerut by Mr. Brijmohan Gad. He has come. He's in our guesthouse now. Actually he just came here this morning. We stayed in his house. That's was also a good... That is a good town also. Altogether we made fifteen life members in about two weeks. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bring Hindi books.

Caraṇāravindam: Yes, we need Hindi books. I met one man in Meerut, Hindi...

Prabhupāda: Our Bhagavad-gītā?

Mahākṣa: Yes. And he is the brother of, he said, I think the nephew of Kṣīrodakaśāyī dāsa Adhikārī in London. His name is Mr. K.M. Gupta. I think he has taken initiation from you.

Prabhupāda: I don't think. K.M. Gupta has given.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But he does not recommend to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. What does he know about Kṛṣṇa? That is the difficulty. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is religion, and he is preaching religion?

Guest (1): He's supposed to be one of the biggest propagator of Gītā. He had Gītāra jñāna yajña in Bombay. There were thousands of people there.

Prabhupāda: False, everything false. Misled. He does not recognize Kṛṣṇa, he does not recognize religion, and he is religious.

Guest (1): One of the best religious leaders. That's what people think.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that may be, falsely representation, but where he is recommending that "You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and worship Him"? Has he done that? That means misleading. He can become a very good orator, and he can get claps, but what is the benefit? He's a good orator, there is no doubt about it. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that "You become a orator and cheat others." He does not say. He says, "Surrender unto Me." So if actually one is preaching, he should teach the audience that "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And that is reading of Bhagavad-gītā. If I take Bhagavad-gītā and speak something of my opinion, that means I am cheating. I am taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā, and I am impressing people with my nonsense ideas.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: More or less everyone of us, we are fool, mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa has stated mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). He has chastised like anything. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān (BG 16.19). So anyone who's not taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is within these categories: duṣkṛtina, narādhama, mūḍha, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna, āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is Indian movement, but na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They are not taking seriously. That is the position. It is our movement. Kṛṣṇa came in India and because India is so glorified place, puṇya-bhūmi, even the demigods they desire. Not India, this planet, Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly, the whole Bhāratavarṣa means whole planet. Anyway, for the time it is now minimized. So it is not ordinary land. So our men, they are not interested in such great movement. How much regrettable it is. And who are they? Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). If you speak the truth, then you take the quotation of Kṛṣṇa. Now every Indian should take part in this great movement. Every Indian. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

It is para-upakāra. India's business is para-upakāra. India's business is not exploitation. That is Indian. And para-upakāra means not that daridra-nārāyaṇa bhojana, no. Para-upakāra means to give him knowledge, for want of which he is suffering. That is real...

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
(BG 15.7)

This is his real suffering. He's part and parcel of God. Qualitatively, he's as good as God, but he's suffering. Why he's suffering? Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). He has come to this material world, prakṛti, and or mental concoction he's creating his plan and struggling for existence. This is real suffering. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to save him from real suffering. That Indians should take very seriously and join this movement, and para-upakāra, people need it all over the world. Otherwise, why these young boys, they have joined me? They are finding something, relief by this movement. Otherwise, what business he has got to join with an Indian, poor Indian. I went to their country with forty rupees, that's all. So they are finding something relief. And actually it is relief. So our Indians are not interested. India is supposed to be the, what is called? Benefactor or...?

Dr. Patel: Deva-bhūmi, deva-bhūmi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have learned it.

Indian man: No, no. Fashion. Now one thing is they can hold off the rich people in India. That is not now, but about, put it back to 1944-45, during the war time. British time. That hold has become stronger. If we do not eat West, particularly America, then we are called "uncivilized." So to prove that I am civilized, there are three things. I must speak English, my children must go to missionary or convent schools, we must adopt Western customs and etiquette, and we must adopt their eating habits. Now if I'm not accepted in the American society... Even the British is now called uncivilized comparatively. If I'm not accepted by the Americans, that, "Yes, I know the standards and I live like them or even better than them," then I am supposed to be common. This is the conception of civilization amongst the Marwaris and the Gujaratis of the richer class. Previously it used to be, as they say of ancient India, that if one did not speak Sanskrit he was supposed to be uncivilized. So now that has come out...

Prabhupāda: In our childhood, my father's generation, in Calcutta, if a gentleman does not keep a prostitute extra, he is not a respectable man.

Indian man: That was in Delhi? That was during the Mogul time in Delhi? Even after the Mogul time? Not only keeping. In Delhi one of my very, my father's very close friend, Lala Sriram from Delhi...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Sriram is a famous man.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Meeting means all other sādhus, they will meet?

Gurudāsa: Yes. I'm getting invitations printed up, and then we can write their names in, and I want to make the invitation something personal, like "This is a meeting of utmost importance."

Prabhupāda: So that, some Swami Chand?

Hari-śauri: Chandra Swami, minister for Air India. He's supposed to be wanting to see Prabhupāda. He's coming to the Mela.

Gurudāsa: I'll look into that. You told me last time.

Hari-śauri: Is Indira Gandhi coming?

Gurudāsa: There's an unofficial rumor that Indira Gandhi's going to come. Speaking of politicians, I did some research on Tarun Kanti for the letter, and he's very preoccupied now, and Gargamuni Swami told me that he doesn't want to have anything to do with foreign funds.

Prabhupāda: Foreign funds.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is nice.

Gurudāsa: So... Let's see. What else. I've saved some money by cutting down fences and pandal already, and not hiring these cooks.

Prabhupāda: Gargamuni said somebody has paid ten thousand.

Hari-śauri: There was supposed to be some man who was going to give five thousand or ten thousand rupees.

Gurudāsa: For food relief or...?

Prabhupāda: I do not know.

Hari-śauri: For something.

Gurudāsa: There's one man who paid for a tent, life member. And Gargamuni Mahārāja gave me ten thousand rupees for food relief yesterday. Now...

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then that... I was... He got ten thousand rupees.

Gurudāsa: He gave it to me yesterday. I have it right here.

Prabhupāda: What about Saurabha?

Devotee (1): He called last night from Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He's there in Delhi?

Devotee (1): Yes. He just came back yesterday. He'll be coming here soon.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are thinking like that.

Dr. Patel: The court's ruling like that, then it will be...

Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own fight. The thought-checking. "I am thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Why you are checking me?" This will be our defense. Do you think Kṛṣṇa-thinking is illegal and madness? Then you have to condemn the whole Hindu religion.

Trivikrama: Every religion.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is taken as Hindu God. So I'm thinking of Hindu God. Why you are checking? (break) We are reading Bhagavad-gītā and killing Kṛṣṇa. This... Our national father is supposed to be a great devotee of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa is killed. Why the government does not take it seriously? Gandhi wanted Bhagavad-gita as guide. Why they are not taking?

Dr. Patel: That is the Vaiṣṇava (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: That is all bogus. Bogus. Simply bogus. Politics. In Gandhi's āśrama I saw not a single Vaiṣṇava or Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Photographs, you mean to say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "He's Vaiṣṇava." Bogus.

Dr. Patel: He never visited any temple.

Prabhupāda: Bogus! Simply politics.

Dr. Patel: He wanted to kill(?) other Muslims and all other... Especially untouchable.

Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all. That is... Nonviolence, at the same time cow-killing. This rascal, another rascal... You are observing Buddha-jayantī and daily cow-killing. As if Buddha, Lord Buddha, recommended cow-killing.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This śarīra is not..." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gītā is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. And the such a big āśrama, Sevagrama. Where is Bhagavad-gītā arcana? Boliye.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: You said in that article in the BTG that women's liberation means that they get more exploited.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The giving them bluff that "You become liberated" means "We shall exploit you, young girls." This is the idea behind. Because the karmīs, they want sex, young girls, and they get energy to work. The Europeans, Americans, they work so hard. They get energy from new, new girls. This is psychology, Therefore they work like hogs and dogs. Dog civilization. Hog civilization. Because the hog has no restriction, either mother, sister, or anyone, "Come on." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājām..., kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This civilization is for the hogs, to take energy by sex with mother, sister, and anyone, and work hard. It is stated in the Bhāgavata. I have not manufactured. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). And here is the civilization. Tapo divyam. Be brahmacārī, undergo austerities and rectify your, this conditioned life, birth and death. This is human civilization. Why you are under birth and death? One life remain brahmacārī and solve all the question. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Teach them, these rascals—they are accusing, "brainwashing"—that this is civilization. It is not civilization to work hard like hogs and dogs and have sex enjoyment. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhāgavata: Here is a restaurant, and they're selling meat. On the one hand they're supposed to be protecting the animal, and on the other hand they are slaughtering and feeding people meat.

Prabhupāda: Protect the animal? This is not protecting. This is another slaughterhouse.

Hari-śauri: This is slow slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Slow slaughter. They have no independence. (laughs) This is not protection.

Hari-śauri: This is prison.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is prison.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: These sahajiyās will come out of so many devotees. What can be done? From my Guru Mahārāja's disciples, so many sahajiyās came. These are called sahajiyās. Very easily they capture thing. So my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "When my disciples will be sahajiyā, it will be more dangerous." He used to say like that. Take things very easily. You know that Puruṣottama, supposed to be my Godbrother?

Pṛthu-putra: No.

Prabhupāda: You don't know?

Pṛthu-putra: In Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana.

Pṛthu-putra: In Vṛndāvana. Ah, yes. Puruṣottama, yes.

Prabhupāda: He has poisoned this Nitāi.

Pṛthu-putra: Oh. Is it because we have the desire to come in contact with such persons that we contact them, like Nitāi contacting that Puruṣottama?

Prabhupāda: You may not desire, but if you are not strong, you'll be misled by these rascals. But if we follow this instruction, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, āra nā koriho mane āśā, oh, then you become strong. Then you remain strong. Our bhakti line is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). We should be completely zero of our material desires. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Śūnyam means zero. So our classes are not held here?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you say that life comes from chemicals? Why do you make this false propaganda? That is our protest. You cannot do, it and still you make false propaganda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In principle... Last month in December, this Khorana... He's from M.I.T., the Indian who got Nobel Prize a few years ago. He's one of the big scientists in this, called, molecular biology. Actually he synthesized this code gene, one of the small fragments of... They're called DNA molecule. It's supposed to be the molecule for all living systems. So the promise was about ten years ago...

Prabhupāda: Again promise. That promise we don't want.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, the promise was about ten years ago that once they synthesized this gene, complete synthesis, then they'll be able to make life...

Prabhupāda: "They will be." Again promise.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...in the test tube. But it's not working. They have synthesized now.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you talk nonsense if it is not working? Therefore you are nonsense.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So actually it is good. But we have come to a point now even in science that their promises are all going to go wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we want to prove. That is our propaganda. Therefore we have engaged you. Prove that they are all rascals. They are giving false promise.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They just stole the whole suitcase.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They have got duplicate key. They can take.

Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's wondering about his Deities. I told him that the Deities are supposed to be ready by Gaura Pūrṇimā. You gave that time limit. He wanted to know what the size was and how many. So I knew there was Kāliya-Kṛṣṇa and four nāga-patnīs and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and Lalitā and Viśākhā and, I think I told him Gaura-Nitāi, Guru-Gaurāṅga, Gaura-Nitāi, and your deity and your Guru Mahārāja's deity. That makes thirteen.

Prabhupāda: So they are preparing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think. Yes, they were told.

Hari-śauri: Rāmeśvara is supposed to be making all the arrangements.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Bharadvāja is preparing everything. He seems to be a good man.

Prabhupāda: Very good man.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Hari-śauri: In every civilized human society there is some set of scriptural rules and regulations which are followed from the beginning, especially among the Āryans, those who adopt the Vedic civilization and who are known as the most advanced civilized peoples. Those who do not follow the scriptural injunctions are supposed to be demons. Therefore it is stated here that the demons do not know the scriptural rules, nor do they have any inclination to follow them. Most of them do not know them, and even if some of them know, they have not the tendency to follow them. They have no faith, nor are they willing to act in terms of the Vedic injunctions. The demons are not clean, either externally or internally.

One should always be careful to keep his body clean by bathing, brushing teeth, changing clothes, etc. As far as internal cleanliness is concerned, one should always remember the holy names of God and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The demons neither like nor follow all these rules for external and internal cleanliness.

As for behavior, there are many rules and regulations guiding human behavior, such as the Manu-saṁhitā, which is the law of the human race. Even up to today, those who are Hindu follow the Manu-saṁhitā. Laws of inheritance and other legalities are derived from this book. Now, in the Manu-saṁhitā, it is clearly stated that a woman should not be given freedom. That does not mean that women are to be kept as slaves, but they are like children. Children are not given freedom, but that does not mean that they are kept as slaves. The demons have now neglected such injunctions, and they think that women should be given as much freedom as men. However, this has not improved the social condition of the world. Actually, a woman should be given protection at every stage of life. She should be given protection by the father in her younger days, by the husband in her youth, and by the grownup sons in her old age. This is proper social behavior according to the Manu-saṁhitā. But modern education has artificially devised a puffed up concept of womanly life, and therefore marriage is practically now an imagination in human society. Nor is the moral condition of woman very good now. The demons, therefore, do not accept any instruction which is good for society, and because they do not follow the experience of great sages and the rules and regulations laid down by the sages, the social condition of the demoniac people is very miserable.

(break), The demoniac conclude that the world is phantasmagoria. There is no cause, no effect, no controller, no purpose: everything is unreal. They say that this cosmic manifestation arises due to chance material actions and reactions. They do not think that the world was created by God for a certain purpose. They have their own theory: that the world has come about in its own way and that there is no reason to believe that there is a God behind it. For them there is no difference between spirit and matter, and they do not accept the Supreme Spirit. Everything is matter only, and the whole cosmos is supposed to be a mass of ignorance. According to them, everything is void, and whatever manifestation exists is due to our ignorance in perception. They take it for granted that all manifestation of diversity is a display of ignorance. Just as in a dream we may create so many things, which actually have no existence, so when we are awake we shall see that everything is simply a dream. But factually, although the demons say that life is a dream, they are very expert in enjoying this dream. And so, instead of acquiring knowledge, they become more and more implicated in their dreamland. They conclude that as a child is simply the result of sexual intercourse between man and woman, this world is born without any soul. For them it is only a combination of matter that has produced the living entities, and there is no question of the existence of the soul. As many living creatures come out from perspiration and from a dead body without any cause, similarly, the whole living world has come out of the material combinations of the cosmic manifestation. Therefore material nature is the cause of this manifestation, and there is no other cause. They do not believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. "Under My direction the whole material world is moving." In other words, amongst the demons there is no perfect knowledge of the creation of this world; every one of them has some particular theory of his own. According to them, one interpretation of the scriptures is as good as another, for they do not believe in a standard understanding of the scriptural injunctions.

Prabhupāda: Should we read?

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is already there.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Immediately do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was going to be our proposal. We went through the magazine, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, Brahmānanda Mahārāja and myself, on the underlying points, and as Hari-śauri was pointing out, just like in the old days sometimes they would give a recipe and it would end with the showing of how to offer obeisances for offering the prasāda. But here that is completely neglected, that part. It simply says, "At the end of cooking, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and it will make the food taste better." There's no understanding that the food is then supposed to be offered to Kṛṣṇa for Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. That whole idea is deleted. Everything is very much simplified with the idea of making it sell more.

Prabhupāda: No, this should be properly done immediately. Who is the editor?

Brahmānanda: They have appointed Śrī Govinda.

Prabhupāda: Who is Śrī Govinda?

Tripurāri: He was the temple president in Chicago for several years. Now he is in Los Angeles with his family, and he's living there, the chief editor.

Prabhupāda: He has no experience of this...

Brahmānanda: We have always understood that the editor should be a senior man...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Lokanātha: It's fortune to take birth in the West now. It's fortunate to take birth in America or England? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition." And the leaders say that "India, giving more stress on the soul, not on the body, India's position is so degraded." This is the leaders' opinion. Big, big leaders, they think. Therefore the so-called leaders or learned scholars, they write notes on Bhagavad-gītā, but they never give any idea of spiritual life. They utilize Bhagavad-gītā for material end. This is going on. Just like our big leader, Gandhi. He was supposed to be very strict follower of Bhagavad-gītā, and he has never instructed about spiritual life.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Nārāyaṇa: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja was telling a story on the way back from the Ganges that you had said that Gandhi, he was supposed to be mahātmā, but after he won victory, independence, by his activities, then they said, "Now you can stop meat-eating. You can stop cow slaughter throughout India." He says, "No, no. How can we do this? The Muhammadans, the Muslims, they are eating meat."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Nārāyaṇa: So what kind of rājarṣi is this? (break)

Prabhupāda: There is heat and light. And as soon as after evening the sun is off, not from the sky but from our sight, there is darkness. So chi... This consciousness is the rays or shining of the soul. As soon as the soul is off from this body, the shining of the soul or consciousness is completely gone. Have you understood or not?

Indian (3): (Bengali?) (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break) People have been trained up not to become sober. Sober. Childish. And Vedic civilization is to teach the youngsters from the very beginning how to become sober-under restriction, under regulation, just to make him very sober. Brahmacārī (sic:) guru-gṛhe vasan dāntaḥ. Dānta means sober. And where is our paṇḍita.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Next year at the Māyāpur festival, separate but equal facilities will be arranged for the women. It was felt that they weren't equal this year, that perhaps next year the new building could be divided in half, that they could have the same type of facility but kept separate.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Now we have got enough place.

Jayapatākā: There's not adequate room. There's supposed to be a new building.

Satsvarūpa: Resolution about restaurants, that they may be named either Hare Kṛṣṇa restaurant or Govinda's restaurant. Then we passed a resolution about attendance at the temple functions. All GBC members and temple presidents are responsible to see that all devotees in their zone attend the morning and evening program except when there is alternate bona fide preaching in the evening, like if there's some book distribution in the evening. Otherwise everyone must go to the morning and evening.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Who is the chief guest?

Girirāja: His name is Dr. Dattrey.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: He's an (indistinct).

Girirāja: Yeah. He is supposed to be one of the leading doctors in India. Especially of heart, cardiology. So I also thought this would be a good night for Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu to make his presentation, so that this leading doctor can also attend that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: And the television people are also supposed to come tonight, and show you and them the drama.

Prabhupāda: When you have to go?

Akṣayānanda: The boys can leave at 6:15.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: We have enough time one hour. And K. K. Dattrey and I are working together in one association for the psychic surgery. He is the president, I am the vice-president, so I know him very well, personally.

Prabhupāda: Cardiologist.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In the meantime let us recruit some important... Just like this Russian scientist.

Girirāja: This Dr. Khorana is supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: I think as our books are entering Russia, it will create something.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I think it will be...

Prabhupāda: Eighteen books, Bhāgavata, they have ordered.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a joke. Someone is going to read them. The Russians are the biggest readers in the world.

Prabhupāda: Not only that. They are anxious to read from Indian literature. They know there is substance in these books. That they know.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have asked already Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. Can you give me a statement of the account?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's ready.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is supposed to be bringing it to me tomorrow morning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It is being typed. It is all ready. I am showing you a complete statement of all the paper purchased, how it is used, a complete statement of every book printed in India, where it is distributed, what the balance is; complete inventory report, how much stock we have in hand, and books distributed in the month of March. We are producing these reports every month now. Everything. All the records are there.

Prabhupāda: No, but that bank manager wanted to come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came, but I only got back by four-thirty, and he said he would come again at eleven o'clock tomorrow morning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Indian Overseas?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, State Bank.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was reading, going through my mail. State Bank had written to me earlier. They are also applying for an extension counter, and we want a full bank, because they were seeing me before, their manager here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said that if they are willing to pay the rent, even if in the beginning it is only an extension counter, that's not so bad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like Indian Overseas, I gave them a rate of Rs. 4.50 per square foot, but the market rate was 4.

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to...

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but they are cheating. That is a fact. How we have learnt it, that is another thing. But you are cheating. That's fact.

Devotee (4): Just like this President Carter, though, he's supposed to be a religious man and bringing so-called honesty into government, compared to the others.

Prabhupāda: That, everyone says.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And this, these space flight cheatings, this is for the purpose of giving a few men more tax money or fame. That's another reason for cheating, to get fame.

Prabhupāda: I have got tendency to cheat, so people unnecessarily poses himself as very big man even by ideas that you will consider him very great man, although I am nothing. So many gurus, they are doing that. Our business that we want to speak what Kṛṣṇa has said. If Kṛṣṇa has cheated, then we are cheater. Otherwise honest. If Kṛṣṇa is honest, we are honest. If Kṛṣṇa is cheater, so our position is safe. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Other gurus, they are manufacturing how to cheat. That is the difference. We are not speaking anything new. So if Kṛṣṇa has originally cheated you, then I am cheater.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:
Ram Jethmalani: Whatever you order any time.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. So we have got some difficulties here, inform him. Girirāja: Actually, he offered that if there was any difficulties he would help us. Prabhupāda: So inform him. Prasāda? Girirāja: Actually, there is supposed to be prasāda coming up right now. Prabhupāda: So please wait, let the prasāda come. Take. Girirāja: I will bring it up here. Ram Jethmalani: We will take it in the car, because it will help us to attend a public meeting in time. I am on a thanksgiving tour of the constituency. Indian man: We are taking him to Andheri. There is a meeting. We have kept a huge vote. Prabhupāda: No, no, how they will take prasādam? Girirāja: Well, I think if they could wait one or two minutes. Prabhupāda: No, it is not... Kindly wait. Ram Jethmalani: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Devotee (4): Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in any way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. (Hindi) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. (Hindi) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside:) Hm, don't do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and... So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that "God has no leg, no hand," that... In the Upaniṣad it said that "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha-mūḍha means rascal-rascal thinks that "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Because they cannot understand—they cannot make distinction what is spiritual, what is material-therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. First of all one has to understand what is material, what is spiritual. So unless one comes to the spiritual understanding, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Siddhaye means "for spiritual understanding." And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). So yatatām api siddhānām. Even the jñānīs, they are supposed to be siddha, and they also miss the point, that "The Supreme has no material body, so only negation." No. There is positive body. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). Although he has knowledge, still, his knowledge is not purified. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). And because they cannot capture the real form of the Lord, they again fall down in this material world. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Falsely such persons think that "Now I have become liberated" without approaching the form of the Lord. Ye 'nye 'ravinda... Aravindākṣa: "One who has got lotus eyes." Ye 'nye... Ye anye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ: "Thinks of himself as he had become liberated." He may be liberated from material concept of life, but aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, because he could not understand, take, what is the form of the Lord, the result is āruhya kṛcchreṇa, with great austerity, he can come to the platform of nirguṇa Brahman, Parambrahman, but because naturally he is seeking after the reality... He does not get the reality, only eternity. Reality is bliss. Sac-cid-ānanda. That ānanda he does not get.

Conversations -- May 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...this Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.

Akṣayānanda: That would be nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe tomorrow, if this Jayaśacīnandana goes the first time, I can go with him. I know Gauracānda a little bit, so I can, you know, just, as your secretary, send your greetings to him. He'll appreciate that.

Akṣayānanda: He'll appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think what I'll do is I'll go at the time when I know they're supposed to be making that offering. That way, I'll see if it's being done. Little... Five or... What time is that offering made? Noontime?

Devotee: Yeah, noon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelve? (pause)

Prabhupāda: Then you can bring little prasādam just from there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the plate that's offered to you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, some... (end)

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The center?

Bhavānanda: We might do that in pieces.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, there was some sanction given. That government kash(?) land, that land is supposed to be given to us. It has been recommended to be given to us. That order has come to the local land officer.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Jayapatākā: It's scattered all around. In that area that we wanted, nine hundred bighās, say about a hundred or about sixty bighās scattered, three bighā, two bighā. It is government kash land, so they recommended giving that to us. But because of the elections, that's not making progress.

Bhavānanda: We're getting lots of lemons.

Prabhupāda: Hm. What you are doing with them?

Bhavānanda: Nimbu pāni, and all the devotees get piece of lemon with their main meal. We have now... Everyone has gathered. All of the preaching parties have come back, and we've... They're all dispersing again on Friday. So when everyone is there, we have close to 275 residents.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is satisfied.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All philosophical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He gladly bought the Śrīmad..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...supposed to be intelligent or scholar and does not read my books, his knowledge has no profit. That's a fact. Asampūrṇa. He remains still in darkness. That is a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His learning is imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If such a person doesn't read your books, his learning is not complete-imperfect. Asampūrṇam?

Prabhupāda: Sampūrṇam is perfect, when he completes reading my books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Asampūrṇam means incomplete.

Prabhupāda: Imperfect.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten thousand yojanas, 80,000 miles. Here it says that "The highest mountain is Mount Everest, 29,000 feet." Not very high. That's about six miles. And we are saying 80,000 miles. So we want to know where is that. How high is Govardhana supposed to be?

Bhakti-prema: Govardhana (indistinct). Govardhana mountain is sinking.

Prabhupāda: Sinking.

Bhakti-prema: Crushed by (indistinct). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the Rand McNally's Illustrated World Atlas, its special feature is that it gives maps describing all different subjects like language. What language is spoken throughout different places is the world is shown by map and the national areas, according to size, population, and cities, major populations, densities of population. Like China is supposed to be... China. This shows proportionately in population according to this and India, it says that it is... Everything else is very small compared to these two, India and China. Agriculture, what kind of agriculture, natural vegetation, climate... (break)

Bhakti-prema: But there was no Atlantic Ocean, Indian Oceans, no. But after that, there were sixteen thousand sons of Sagara Mahārāja. Then their sacrificial hearth was stolen by Indra. So it was put somewhere in the earth folds. They began to dig the earth to find out that hearth. So they dug other oceans, (indistinct) Kapila Muni (indistinct), and it explains the curse(?) that he is the chief. And then there's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "Only our knowledge of the crust of the earth is based on direct observation, but studies of paths of earthquake waves..." Then it goes... The only way they can understand is by direct observation. And that's very limited. Says, "All the planets were probably formed at much the same time." It doesn't sound like they have very much knowledge, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is "probably," "maybe." Says that "Probably all the planets were formed at much the same time from the same great dust cloud." After you create this planetarium, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they'll have to rewrite all of these books. These businesses...

Bhakti-prema: Another book has to be written. Its name should be Easy-to-Read Geography or Advanced Geography. And also about history we have to write. Your Divine Grace will write Advanced History, and there the complete lifetime of Manus and Indras should be given.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people...

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) ...water for drinking?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Upendra Prabhu? Is there a drink for Prabhupāda?

Hari-śauri: Mung jal is ready.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's ready. Yes, we prepared mung water. Praṇava's wife, she was cooking with Kulādri today. She prepared two things, mung jal and the water from spinach. So that's supposed to be very good also. Would you like to try? Praṇava said that the feature of the spinach water is that it's very good for strength and very easily digestible. That's what he said. You might like to try something of both.

Prabhupāda: There is fresh milk? Half water, half milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right now would you like to have some mung water?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mung water. And spinach water?

Prabhupāda: Little, little.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. And milk we'll keep ready for whenever you want. We have some milk?

Bhagatji: Any cow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Black cow.

Bhagatji: We will keep one cow ready

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, all the time. One cow. Bhagatji says one cow will be kept ready all the time, so when you say you want milk, immediately they will go and milk this cow. (chuckling)

Prabhupāda: Hm. (pause) That's all right.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Girirāja: I'll arrange a car.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...strength even for sitting.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh. You should keep lying. Don't sit for long.

Prabhupāda: Today is also critical day?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Today is supposed to be not critical. Tomorrow is said to be critical day.

Prabhupāda: Kapoorji is bringing one retired vaidya. (Bengali)

Dr. Kapoor: Pandit Lakshmi-Narayan. He was principal of Ayur Vedic College in Jaipur. He's retired man, now doing bhajana here. He's a very old and experienced person. So he will just see the pulse

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Kapoor: ...and say what exactly is wrong.

Prabhupāda: So give him car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll give you Prabhupāda's car or we can give... Either way. It may be better... Bhakti-caitanya Swami has his vehicle here, I think.

Prabhupāda: Any car.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is this preparation?

Jayapatākā: It's wheat that's chipped. It's called bulgar wheat. It's wheat that's chipped into small pieces so that's it's... It's like oversized suji, about three times the size of suji, and that's just boiled and cooked with oil and some gur and spices. Or it can also be cooked with vegetables and spices. It's supposed to be nutritious, healthy, strength-giving food. Māyāpur Muslims tried to get the other Muslims in other villages not to take it because it was being given by us, but they said, "Why we shouldn't take? Just because you're giving them trouble doesn't mean we shouldn't take." So now they've all rebelled, and they're all taking now prasādam. He gave us address where we can get powdered milk possibly also.

Prabhupāda: It is mixed with powder milk?

Jayapatākā: What we have right now isn't mixed with powdered milk. We want to mix powdered milk with it, but this department ran out of powdered milk, so another department has it. This is... They give oil to cook it in, like halavā type, vegetable oil. It's like a cereal that they have in the West, in America and some places. Like dalya, they call in Western India.

Prabhupāda: They take it relishably?

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you saw the massaging?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. How are you feeling after it?

Prabhupāda: Good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think massage is good. It will keep your body a little bit loosened and...

Prabhupāda: So where they have gone?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's supposed to be coming back. I do not know if he's gone with Bhagatji, but he said that he'd be coming back in a short time. I think that this program of massaging and also using your brain for translating little bit...

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that is also very important.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let him bring. There is fifty thousand rupees in Orissa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Jayapatākā: That fifty thousand rupees was supposed to be for construction. Bhāgavata Prabhu has collected about 35,000 rupees on his own that he's put into the account there so far. More is also being collected. It was previously promised that whatever he would collect for construction, then that amount would be matched from BBT fund or from your...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Somewhere. So so far he has to collect fifty thousand, 'cause that's already there.

Jayapatākā: He has to match that first before he can get it. (laughs softly) Just yesterday night, the SP of Cuttack District, Orissa, he came here, and he said that he was very impressed by the mandira. He told Bhāgavata... I happened to meet him also. He was very pleased. His wife and family were here. He gave his name and address and said, "When you come back to Orissa, you kindly see me and what I can do... I'm not so big a man, but whatever I can do to help you, I'll do." He's very pious man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You told him we will have Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma there?

Jayapatākā: Details Bhāgavata was discussing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're installing Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orissa.

Prabhupāda: That construction is not so important as printing of books.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that you get some strength. You were sleeping so much, and you weren't getting any better. The sleeping is necessary, but you shouldn't sacrifice. In order to sleep you should not sacrifice those things which give strength and which take away this disease. You have to get strength, get rid of the disease, and be able to rest nicely. That we have seen, that the kavirāja's medicine is not so effective, neither simply doing without any medicine is so effective. We have not tried allopathic medicine, because within a day or two you always stop it. Whenever you take for one day, then you say, "No more." I think that this... If you want to get better, you have to take some cure. No cure—that is not good. And switching from one thing to the other, that is also not good. Why not follow some series of cure, regular, and stay with it for some time? We're not going to let anything severe be done. That's for sure. And Dr. Ghosh has come very long distance, and this other doctor he is taking the help of is supposed to be very expert doctor. So in such a critical condition, why not take the help? What can be gained by again changing to this Vanamali? Just because there was a little inability for sleep, why should you give up all of the, you know, regimentations which they're prescribing? Just like sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, they say "You drink this, drink this, drink this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda, unless you drink a...

Prabhupāda: No. That's all right, but the drinking forcibly, that is a great botheration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But isn't it... I mean the greatest botheration is that you're not well. And the reason you're not well is that you have no strength. And unless you take in, you're not going to get any strength.

Prabhupāda: So how can I take constantly?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may be bothersome, but it's not so bothersome as being in this ill condition. In order to get better, it seems to me that it's going to be some botheration in order to get better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, bother... What botheration? I cannot take so much.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja, I wanted. Somehow or other, it has not happened.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't feel that it's conclusively not happened.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply, one after another, frustration.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First we had that Madhva..., not Madhva. Rāmānujī came from Śrī Raṅgajī temple, and he seemed to be a cheater. Then this one... We got this medicine from that śakta-kavirāja, and that medicine turned out to be poison. And now this kavirāja who's supposed to be coming from Calcutta, it's become a mystery where he is. The temple was called, and they said that they've left. They called twice to Calcutta, and they said they've left, and yet he's not here. I don't know what to make of it. Very puzzling situation. I think that if by tomorrow noon they have not arrived, then Śatadhanya can go to Calcutta to bring them. If they're going to arrive, they'd arrive by tomorrow noon.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, at the latest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the latest absolutely. I mean, to me, for them to arrive by tomorrow noon is not... From the very beginning I would not have felt it was out of the ordinary.

Prabhupāda: They said they have left!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Still, whatever the reason is.

Prabhupāda: You are not talking... Everything is being done by the same Śatadhanya. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By the same what?

Prabhupāda: Śatadhanya.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because, Śrīla Prabhupāda, our Society cannot loan money for a business like this. This is not our Society's business at all. You're not... Of the one lakh of rupees' worth of books, only six thousand rupees is from ISKCON's books. So how can we loan one lakh of rupees? We can't start loaning money for these kind of businesses. It's against the Society's memorandum and rules that money can be given to individuals for their personal businesses. This is a charitable society. It's bounded by the Society's charity laws. So, Prabhupāda, whatever money he has, he has got as a binamida of the Society. He may donate the money in the sense of giving a stipend to family members. That's different. But as far as giving loans for business purposes to an individual private business... I mean we would lose our charitable status, because the accounts are audited every year. So it will look very... In fact, if we do that, then they may raise objection to the stipend also. Now they can't raise objection, because it's given as a stipend to the family, former family of this ācārya. They won't say anything. But if we start taking Society money and loaning it to a private business, which is the way they'll see it, then they'll raise objection. Furthermore, then we'll have to charge interest, and if we charge interest, that gets us into a lot of trouble also. As a Society, we're not supposed to be doing business, profit-making business.

Prabhupāda: So when the certificates matures, what is the amount?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The amount, I believe, is about 43,200 rupees.

Prabhupāda: So this much can be given to him. You can...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That amount can be given to him, and he may pay back the loan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he's getting the postal receipts, so let him keep those.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When it is matured...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's going to be matured in ten days, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't think it's advisable that we should pass entries in our accounts simply for ten days' time. By the time he goes back...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may take indirectly for the purpose with the help of Sandar.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja from Calcutta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You wanted him? So he's coming.

Prabhupāda: When he's coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's supposed to be here any moment, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (whispering) Hm. I'll check my schedule.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru Mahārāja suggested that they may have taken the hopping flight from Calcutta, which stops in about three different places. I can just see my airline... I don't have an up-to-date airline schedule, but even the one I have might indicate the afternoon flight. Shall I see it?

Prabhupāda: Everything is theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not really, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's not all theory. We spoke with the man. He went out and got the kavirāja. When we again called Calcutta we were informed that they had left on the plane. I mean there's no reason to suspect that people are lying to us, our own Godbrothers are lying to us. I mean it's so close to the time when they should arrive that we shouldn't become discouraged. I mean right now we could send Śatadhanya Mahārāja to Calcutta, but it would be very bad to do that, because the kavirāja may be five miles out of Vṛndāvana right now. Or he may have just reached Delhi if he came on this propeller plane. We have every reason to believe that he'll be here at any moment. We have no reason to feel that he shouldn't come.

Bhavānanda: He's definitely in transit, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's nothing at all to lead us to feel dismayed that they haven't..., he hasn't... For example... I mean we got the call through to Calcutta by 2:30, and they said that he got the kavirāja and they got on the plane and left. That's very, very positive information. I mean, imagine if someone had picked up the phone in Calcutta and said, "I don't know," or "He couldn't find the kavirāja." But they said, "He got the kavirāja and they got on the plane." That's very, very positive information. Maybe we should read a little bit. That will be a good diversion now.

Prabhupāda: What you'll read?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the other night... I mean we could read SB.. I'm always eager for you to hear Bhāgavatam. I mean, I wanted to call... I always like to call Pradyumna and Jayādvaita. Of course, that requires... If you wanted to translate, you could make the effort. Otherwise Jayādvaita could read some of the edited work.

Bhakti-caru: He went to Delhi.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh. If he agrees to stay a couple more days, we should take advantage of that to give you more time to gain strength. Not that we're overly eager to rush out of here. Our plan is that we want to go where he is, that we want you to remain under his treatment. That is our point. If he was willing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, if after all he wants to go, why not leave earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the whole idea of going is that the medicine is supposed to be having effect. So the longer we have for the medicine to take effect, the stronger you should become. And the stronger you become, the easier will be the journey. It would only be a question of one or two days extra, because in any case he'll want to leave after a few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some rest, backside, I can sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With some rest?

Bhavānanda: Something to rest against on his back. Then he can sit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, and in any case we were going to purchase three seats for Your Divine Grace so that you can lie down conveniently in the plane also. No harm in taking... Because one thing you have to remember: the entire journey will take ten hours, so you should conserve your strength by laying down as far as possible. Here you can sit up for two hours because the bed is stationary, and then you can always be resting. But this will be a ten-hour journey. So we should try to take every possible means to allow you to be comfortable the whole way and to relax as much as possible.

Prabhupāda: Give me some rest, backside.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pillows. There's a couple in that room, also in the palanquin.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, you have to stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's not necessarily the only solution, to stop. I just explained, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that that is not the only way. Another way may be that they add some other kind of medicine which stops the passing of stool. The medicine you're getting is supposed to be doing good to your kidney and liver. That it causes you to pass stool, that is not good, but at the same time, it may be doing good for the kidney and liver. If you stop taking it, then how will you heal the kidney and liver? Simply by not passing stool, that's not going to heal the kidney and liver. What we want is that you should not pass stool too much and at the same time you can still have your kidney and liver healed. Naturally, if you stop taking medicine, the stool may stop passing.

Prabhupāda: And he is not experienced.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: That was supposed to be done this year, but then Bombay took all the funds. Prabhupāda sanctioned it already last year. It was a good idea. But Māyāpur has become very popular. This is all due to your effort, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Simply due to your efforts Māyāpur and Navadvīpa is becoming so much more famous and popular. We want to make the Māyāpur temple so beautiful and make the city so nice that not only the Queen of England and the President of United States, but even the Russian and Chinese leaders, they'll all have to come to see this. They can't avoid. Will that please Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura? If all the leaders, all these presidents and kings would come and visit the temple at Māyāpur, that would please Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like your activities, Śrīla Prabhupāda, are so much pleasing to the previous ācāryas.

Jayapatākā: This is the secret you are showing, working towards satisfying the desires of the previous ācāryas.

Prabhupāda: Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. So you are all bhaktas. To live with you, to serve the lotus feet of the ācāryas, that's good...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We've already become famous as spiritual United Nations.

Jayapatākā: You've given the secret for success. (break)

Prabhupāda: If possible, make some improvement in Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birthplace.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: We're supposed to be gosvāmīs. We have to stay under a tree. Different tree every night.

Lokanātha: When we were traveling from Vṛndāvana to Māyāpur we stayed many times. Outside we'd live under the tree. It's nice.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, but if just one window is open at night, Prabhupāda starts feeling cold in spite of the blanket.

Lokanātha: You are making mundane.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be very cold in the early morning hours.

Haṁsadūta: We'll bring the van, and Prabhupāda can stay in the van overnight, or we'll find some place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the āśramas will be overcrowded.

Pañca-draviḍa: We can sleep around the van. Prabhupāda is like a desire tree. He satisfies everybody.

Lokanātha: That cart could be turned into house. Have bamboo sticks, cover it with...

Prabhupāda: So begin to plan.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think Lokanātha Swami should make the route, completely planned out, and the place also where we're going to picnic so that everything has to be arranged well ahead of time.

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Page Title:Supposed to be (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:16 of Feb, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=78, Let=0
No. of Quotes:78