Prabhupāda: Ordinary living being cannot fight with the Supreme Lord. Therefore some of His devotees, some of His associates, must fight with Him. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that Arjuna was inquiring from Kṛṣṇa that "You say that millions of years before You spoke this Bhagavad-gītā yoga to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). The Lord said that "Many, many, many, many millions of years before, ago, I explained this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." Now, to eliminate any doubt in the minds of ordinary persons like us, Arjuna inquired that, "Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. We are almost of the same age. How do you say that You explained this Bhagavad-gītā millions and millions of years ago to the sun-god? How can I believe it?" In answer to this question, Kṛṣṇa said that, "Both you..." (break) "...descended on this material world many many times, but you have forgotten. I remember." That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness.
Sun-god (Conv. and Letters)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So anyone will understand that this sunshine is not so important as the sun globe. And if you approach the sun globe and if you penetrate into the sun, if you have got strength to go into the... Just like you are trying go to the moon planet. If you have got really scientific strength to go within the sun planet, then you'll find there is sun-god. That information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I told the sun-god Vivasvān first." So therefore there is a person. And why not a person? Your imagination is not ultimate truth. We get information from Kṛṣṇa, there is a person, Vivasvān. So there is a person, he's sitting there. Person, globe, sun, sunshine. Which is important? Which is important?
Allen Ginsberg: The person, the globe or the sunshine?
Prabhupāda: Why you don't know? You cannot say them? Which of them? These three things are presenting. The sunshine, the sun globe, and within the sun globe, the sun-god. Who is important?
Allen Ginsberg: If we could apprehend it in terms of person, the person.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: But if we could apprehend it only in terms of the globe, then the globe.
Prabhupāda: So that means your approach may be up to globe, but that is not finished.
Prabhupāda: No. Why not senses? This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time... This is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. That is very easy... Suppose this is gold. But this gold is not the gold mine. There is a difference. It is gold. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa, but still is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-sthānī sthitasyajñer jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The same example, that the sun. The sun is, sun-god is situated one place, but it is fiery. Blazing fire. Its heat and light is expanded. You see practically, the heat and light. So whatever this material existence is the sunlight, sunshine. Everything existing on sunshine. It is scientific. Your electricity, your this, that, whatever you take it is all sunshine. All these planets are moving, rotating on the sunshine. Heat. If heat is taken away immediately whole thing spoiled.
Prabhupāda: No. Why not senses? This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time... This is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. That is very easy... Suppose this is gold. But this gold is not the gold mine. There is a difference. It is gold. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa, but still is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-sthānī sthitasyajñer jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The same example, that the sun. The sun is, sun-god is situated one place, but it is fiery. Blazing fire. Its heat and light is expanded. You see practically, the heat and light. So whatever this material existence is the sunlight, sunshine. Everything existing on sunshine. It is scientific. Your electricity, your this, that, whatever you take it is all sunshine. All these planets are moving, rotating on the sunshine. Heat. If heat is taken away immediately whole thing spoiled. Therefore everything is resting on the energy of the sunshine, but if you say that "Then let me find out the sun-god in the sunshine," that you will have to go there.
Prabhupāda: That I explained the other day, that the sunshine, the sun globe, and the sun-god.
Allen Ginsberg: Ah, yes.
Prabhupāda: Apparently the sunshine appears to be very, very big, but it is concentrated in sun globe. And when you enter the sun globe, it is concentrated in sun-god.
Allen Ginsberg: Where is the origin of this image of the sun? Where is the origin of this image of the sun? Is this a Vedic śāstric explanation?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is śāstric information. He is incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, Sūrya-nārāyaṇa. He is powerful. He is driving in four horses. He has got chariot of four horses and very powerful. Yac cakṣur eśa savita. Savita, his name is Savita.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is śāstric information. He is incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, Sūrya-nārāyaṇa. He is powerful. He is driving in four horses. He has got chariot of four horses and very powerful. Yac cakṣur eśa savita. Savita, his name is Savita. The Gāyatrī mantra is oṁ bhur bhuvaḥ svāḥ tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi. That is worshiping the sun-god.
Allen Ginsberg: Do you use Gāyatrī mantra also?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: I know some of it. Oṁ bhur...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oṁ bhur bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi dhiyo yo naḥ pracodayāt. This Gāyatrī, this is called.
Prabhupāda: That will take you to the ultimate goal. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So... Kṛṣṇa also recommends in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness was understood by disciplic succession. Paramparā-prāptam. Imaṁ vivasvavate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: "My dear Arjuna, don't think that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness science I am speaking to you is something new. No." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "It is eternal, and first I spoke to sun-god." Vivasvate. Vivasvān manave prāhuḥ: "And Vivasvān said to his son, Manu." Manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt: "And Manu also transferred this knowledge to his son, Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: (BG 4.2) "In this way, by disciplic succession, it is coming on." Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "But in due course of time it is now broken. Therefore I am speaking to you again."
Prabhupāda: The yogis, they, I mean to say, focus on the Supersoul, Paramātmā. And the devotees, they aim at Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now, this Kṛṣṇa and the Supersoul and the impersonal Brahman, they are not different. They are light. They are not darkness. But in the light also, there is difference The example is given: just like sunlight, sun globe and the sun-god. Everywhere you find light. In the sunshine there is light. In sun globe there is light. And what to speak of the predominating deity in the sun-globe? He also must be light; otherwise wherefrom this light comes? So so far light is concerned, everywhere there. But you cannot say because sunshine has come through your window in your room, you cannot say the sun has come. That will be mistake. Sun is many, many miles away. But so far light is concerned, now there is question of degrees of light, intensity of light.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But so far... So far we are concerned, this Bhagavad-gītā... It is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Now, this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "This system of Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken by Me to the sun-god." So if you take estimation of that period, it comes forty millions of years. So whether the European scholars can trace out the history of at least for five thousand years together, not to speak of forty millions?
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This table is also Kṛṣṇa because it is a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ mano khaṁ buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). What is the ingredient of this table? Earth, water, air, fire. Kṛṣṇa says, "That is My manifestation of My energy." Just like if the sun-god says, "I am everything of this matter," it is a fact, because through the sunshine everything is coming out. As soon as there is no sunshine, no more trees, no more foliage. Why? It is due to sunshine all these trees are existing. So if I say everything is sunshine, what is the wrong there? Because it is the sun's energy which is maintaining this material world. Similarly, it is Kṛṣṇa's energy that is manifesting everything. So if I say this is Kṛṣṇa, this is a fact. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Although everything is resting in Me, still I am not there." Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). The Māyāvādī philosopher says that "If Kṛṣṇa is here, then why shall I worship Kṛṣṇa in the temple?"
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Personality of Godhead is completely well versed. Kṛṣṇa just like says, "Yes, I spoke this philosophy millions of years. I remember; you have forgot." There we have to study, how Kṛṣṇa's brain is. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Yes, I spoke." When Arjuna defied, "How can I believe that You spoke millions of years ago this philosophy to sun-god?" "Yes, that's a fact. You also were there. But I remember, you don't remember." The child, just like father says, "My dear child, when you were two years old you fell down and there was a fracture in your brain." "Yes?" He cannot remember. The father can say, "Yes, it happened. You have forgotten. I remember." This is practical. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can remember everything, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). You may not remember. You have no such brain, you are teeny. But why should you defy Kṛṣṇa? Why should you deny the facility for Kṛṣṇa? That means you are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa, He is like me."
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. One link. So that is being deviated. What Kṛṣṇa said to Vivasvān, to the sun-god now everyone is speaking in his own way, not in that way.
Guest (2): That's right.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is deviated. The Bhagavad-gītā, the Chapter, Fourth Chapter explains that you cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation. You must follow the instruction of the original speaker of Bhagavad-gītā. The original speaker is Kṛṣṇa. So what Kṛṣṇa says, they have to follow it. Then it is Bhagavad-gītā. Otherwise if you interpret it in a different way then it is not Bhagavad-gītā. Now, what Kṛṣṇa says we have to understand it philosophically, ethically, scientifically, any way, any angle of vision. That is, that you can do. But you cannot change the version of Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot change. Just like Dr. Rādhākrishnan, in the Ninth Chapter when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).
Scholar: He said that Vivasvān is the personification of Sūrya, the sun-god. He was the first man created by Brahmā and he learns yoga from (indistinct) himself. And then we..., Vivasvān taught yoga to Manu, who is the creator of the law, and of institutions. Just explaining only the, who is Ikṣvāku, who is Vivasvān, and so on. There's no philosophical explanation. Just word by word explanations. Because of course if you compare...
Prabhupāda: But er... He said that indirectly, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the original verse can you read? Original verse?
Devotee: "The Blessed Lord said, 'I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun god, Vivasvān. Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu, in turn, instructed it to Ikṣvāku.' "
Prabhupāda: Now what is the explanation?
Scholar: Herein we find the history of the Bhagavad-gītā traced from a remote time when it was delivered to the royal order, the king of all planets. This science is especially meant for the perfection of the inhabitants, and therefore, the royal order should understand it in order to be able to rule the citizens and protect them from material bondage to lust. Human life is meant for cultivation of spiritual knowledge, the eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and the executive heads of all states and all planets are obliged to impart this lesson to the citizens by education, culture and devotion. In other words, the executive heads of all states are intended to spread the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that the people may take advantage of this great science and pursue a successful path, utilizing the opportunity of the human form of life...
Prabhupāda: This Vivasvān is the original person of the kṣatriya family, Sūrya-vaṁśa.
Scholar: The sun is the king of the planets and the sun god (at present of the name Vivasvān) rules...
Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the president or the predominating person, his name is given, Vivasvān.
Scholar: He's a person. He's a man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Scholar: From Sūrya-vaṁśa.
Prabhupāda: Not from Sūrya-vaṁśa. He's the origin of Sūrya-vaṁśa.
Prabhupāda: The predominating deity in the sun planet, his name is Vivasvān.
Scholar: Vivasvān, yes. And he's supposed to be the originator of...
Prabhupāda: He's the original person for the... There are two kinds of kṣatriyas. One coming from the sun-god, and the other is coming from the moon god, candra-vaṁśa, sūrya-vaṁśa.
Scholar: That's a very good correction for us. (Indonesian)
Prabhupāda: Personification means he... From the explanation it appears that actually there is no person.
Scholar: Yes. Originally there was person.
Prabhupāda: Not was, is, is still.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, no, happened or not happened. But you have no estimation, even one universe. You cannot say like that because you are a fool still. Even though it did not happen in the body of Kṛṣṇa, but you have no estimation, you cannot know what is the sun-god or sun planet or moon planet. You cannot go there. So what is the value of your knowledge? If the statement of Bhagavad-gītā has no meaning, then what is the meaning of your scientific knowledge? You are not perfect. So how you can say? Because you are imperfect, so you cannot say against Bhagavad-gītā, which is accepted by all the ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya... Don't be in hurry. Just finish one word. That is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: Just like the sun or the moon. There is the sun-god or the moon-god within the planet. That is the original. And then the sun globe, it is localized. And then the sunshine and the moonshine. Hare Kṛṣṇa (Hindi) (aside:) (break) ...what is impersonal and personal. What is that? Repeat it, what I have said.
Italian Man (1): This way, if I understand what is personal and impersonal?
Prabhupāda: Yes, what is that personal and impersonal?
Italian Man (1): Is that Kṛṣṇa also has a... He's a person. He is not only all-pervading abstract energy.
Prabhupāda: Not also. He is person. This all pervasive influence or all pervasive feature is His expansion of energy. The same example: The sunshine is the expansion of energy of the sun globe, and the sun globe is the place for the sun-god. The sun-god is a person, and sun globe is the place where this sun-god lives, and sunshine is the expansion of the energy of the sun disc. Try to understand it very... Because this question is very complicated. People cannot understand. You try to understand this. God, Kṛṣṇa, is originally a person. Brahmeti bhagavān iti. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān (SB 1.2.11). Just like if you want to see the sun-god, there is a person. His name is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, Vivasvān. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). He is a person. Now you cannot see the person so easily.
Prabhupāda: Fire is the origin. That is form. That is not formless. Heat may be formless. Light may be formless, but fire is not formless. Thik hai? If you have got intelligence, then from the form-less, you can approach the form. Just like the sunshine, shining is formless. If you have got form, go to the sun planet. And if you go to the sun planet, you will see the sun-god. But they cannot go. They cannot appreciate that there is a person who is known as sun-god. But it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham... The name is also given, what is the name of that person. (break)
Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is not fit to be seen by the great personality. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). You cannot see the sun-god. Does it mean there is no sun-god? What is the value of your eyes? It is imperfect. You are seeing the sun just like a disc, but it is fourteen hundred thousands of times bigger than this earth. Can you see it? Then what is the power of your seeing? Whatever you are seeing, that is defective. So don't be proud of seeing. What is your eyes? What is the value of your eyes? You cannot see even the eyelid. Can you see the eyelid? Although it is attached to your eyeball. So what is the power? Why you are so much proud of seeing? First of all, understand that "I am so defective, I cannot see perfectly, properly." And you want to see God with these defective eyes?
Prabhupāda: No. The same thing means he is a rascal teacher. He is not teacher. He is cheater. When a cheater takes the place of a teacher, he explains differently. And when a teacher is there, he will explain rightly. Where is the difficulty? I have several times said that "Where is the difficulty to understand Bhagavad-gītā?" There is not a single line which is very difficult to understand. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "I first of all said this philosophy to Vivasvan, the sun-god." So where is the difficulty to understand this line? Where is the difficulty?
Indian Man (1): No difficulty in understanding. Interpretation...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. Literatures are also, authentic literatures... Śrutayaḥ means authentic literature, which is acceptable. They are also various type. Just like Vedas. There are four Vedas: Sāma-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Atharva-Veda, Ṛg-Veda. Then the Upaniṣads are there. Then the Vedānta-sūtra is there. So if we study all this Vedic literature or any other similar literature, it is very difficult to find out the Absolute Truth. Śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. And if we take the philosophers, so one philosopher differs from another philosopher. Na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Therefore, to approach the Absolute Truth, God, is very difficult subject matter. Therefore our principle is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahājana means the recognized persons, recognized by the Supreme Lord, such persons we follow. We have got a list of recognized persons, just like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, the Manu. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Manu's name is there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), this Manu. So Manu, then Kapila, then Prahlāda, Janaka, Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Yamarāja. In this way there are twelve mahājanas. And we receive knowledge from either of them. That is bona fide philosophy. That is called paramparā system. The original teacher is Kṛṣṇa and from Him the sun-god, Vivasvān, learned it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it. Therefore stop... (break) ...light, that's all. So much. Just like Lord Buddha. He did not explain anything about God. He said, "Just obey me and stop this animal killing." Therefore this much sufficient for him, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is divine essence. God is divine essence, just like you have volumes of milk and you churn it, then you get so much butter. So the butter is the essence of the milk. Similarly, the spirit is vast, all-pervading. The example, another example, is just like the sunshine universally spread, very big. Then you concentrate the sunshine, it is sun globe. And if you still concentrate, you will see within the sun globe there is sun-god. So he is the essence of this light, the sunshine light, the sun globe light, and the person—sun-god, Vivasvān, he is person—he is the essence among all this light. That is explained in the Brahma-samhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). The whole creation means expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). By expansion of the bodily rays of Kṛṣṇa, this Brahman, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam, tad brahma (Bs. 5.40). That Brahman. Brahman is..., just like the sunshine is the expansion of the bodily rays of sun-god.
Prabhupāda: We are preaching the central point is God. You call Him by any name, it doesn't matter, either you call Jehovah or Kṛṣṇa or something, Allah, that doesn't matter. But you accept the authority of God and try to love God. This is our mission. And we say God is person. Impersonal feature, that is a feature only. Just like sun-god is a person and the sunshine is one of the feature of the sun-god. The sunshine is not final. You have to penetrate to the sunshine and reach the sun globe and go within the globe and see that there is the sun-god. But that requires strength how to enter into the sun globe and see this. But there is the information in the Bhagavad-gītā: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), "I first of all instructed this yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." The sun-god is there in the sun planet, and if you have got strength, you can go there and see. But you cannot go, although it is material.
Prabhupāda: This is now. Before that, this was spoken some millions of years ago to the Sun-god. You find out that verse, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1).
Yogeśvara: Four, one.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Fourth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Multiply by 72. So that is the age of Manu. So, at least so many years before, Bhagavad-gītā was spoken to Manu's father, Sūrya. Sūrya, the Sun-god.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Prabhupāda: Sun-god. So how many millions?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: About 120,000,000 years ago.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pṛthu Putra: (French)
Prabhupāda: So this philosophy was spoken 300 millions of years ago. And then again, He spoke 5,000 years ago. This is the history of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, your question. You say that animal has no soul, is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yes, God is person. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Absolute Truth is realized from three angles of vision, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Bhagavān is person, and Paramātmā, all-pervading, localized, and Brahman, impersonal. Just like the sunshine is impersonal the sun globe, localized, and the sun-god person. (break)
Jyotirmayī: He says he's accepting some of the things you are saying, but he's doesn't think that he's obliged to accept everything.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Everything is emanation from God. That is our Vedānta-sūtra. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Whatever things are there... In the Bible, also there is... "Everything comes from Him, what is made." Yesterday, we were reading? Yes. So whatever is created, that is made out of God. And the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma: "Everything is Brahman, the Supreme Brahman." So the impersonal feature is an expansion of God's energy. Just like the sunshine is expansion of the energy of sun, so the sunshine is resting on the bodily rays of the sun-god. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The resting place of the impersonal Brahman is God, Kṛṣṇa. Find out this verse, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is big, not the Brahmān. And within the sun globe there is sun-god, Vivasvān. They do not know all these. They think the sunshine is the...
Guru-kṛpa: The sun is different than Vivasvān?
Prabhupāda: Not different. Just like the sunshine is not different from the sun globe. Sun globe means all the inhabitants there, they are glowing. Therefore the whole planet is glowing.
Guru-kṛpa: Vivasvān, he is...?
Prabhupāda: He is also glowing.
Prabhupāda: Ultimately, just like the government is imperson, but ultimately the president is person. The government is going on under the order of the president. Therefore impersonal government is not so important as the personal president is important. Another example: just like the sun, and the sunshine, and the sun-god, three things. The sunshine is impersonal, and the sun globe is localized, and within the sun globe there is sun-god. So in one sense they are all one, means heat and light, but the sunshine is different from the sun globe. When... Just like here is sunshine in this room, but that is not sun globe. Therefore, simultaneously, they are one and different. Is it clear? Any question about this?
Prabhupāda: The man is person, but he is conducting hundreds of factories, big, big area. The factories are important or the man is important? If an ordinary person in this material world becomes so important and personal, you can just imagine how the person of God is important in spite of unlimited expansion of this material world. So what is his idea? The person is ultimately important. The impersonal feature is there, just like the impersonal feature, sunshine, but the sun globe, and within the sun globe there is sun-god. The sunshine is the expansion of the energy of the sun globe and within the sun globe there is sun-god. So which is important, the sun globe, the sun-god or the sunshine? Which is important? The sunshine is important?
Guest: All of them.
Prabhupāda: All of them. That's all right, but comparatively, the sun-god is the source of everything. Therefore he is important. Therefore God is expanded by His energy. And God is the energetic.
Prabhupāda: All of them. That's all right, but comparatively, the sun-god is the source of everything. Therefore he is important. Therefore God is expanded by His energy. And God is the energetic. But comparatively, although there is no difference between the energy and the energetic, the energetic is more important than the energy. When there is sunshine, it is to be understood that sun globe is there and the sun-god is there. But in this sense the sun-god, the sun globe and the sunshine, they are not different, one, because every one of them has the same quality, heat and light. But still, here is the sunshine. It does not mean the sun-god or the sun globe is here. The sun globe is 93,000,000 miles away from us. So therefore, it is to be understood, they are simultaneously one and different. This is the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, the qualitative change. But it is... There are five elements, so it is made of fire, that's all. As your body is made of earth, that sun globe or the sun-god, the body is made of fire, that's all. There are other planets also; the body is made of air because you do not find more than these five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky-gross; and subtle—mind, intelligence and ego. So subtle, the same, but gross—somewhere the fire is prominent; somewhere water is prominent, air is prominent; somewhere earth is prominent. So here in this world, in this planet, the earth is prominent.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same. But a child's understanding of sun and an elderly man's understanding of sun, a scientist's understanding of sun, or one man who has actually gone to the sun planet, there are different categories. Do you accept or not? The sun is there. God is accepted in every scripture. That is a fact. But in the same way, how far He is understood, that is different. That is different. The same example, that everyone is seeing sun: "Here is sun," there is no doubt. But a child's understanding of sun, his father's understanding of sun, or a scientist's understanding of sun, or a person who has gone to the sun planet, his understanding of sun is different. The objective is the same. And everyone is right. Either you understand fully sun or not, as soon as you come before the sun you get the light. The child is getting the light, the scientist is getting the light, and the ordinary person getting the light. Everyone is getting light, heat and light. But their understanding different, of degrees. (break) ...sun-god or sun, no, we don't say that.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, qualitative change. But if, there are five elements. It is made of fire, that's all. As your body is made of earth, that sun globe or sun god's body is made of fire. There are other planets also, the body is made of air. Because you do not find more than these five elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky-gross and subtle—mind, intelligence. So, subtle, the same gross, somewhere fire is prominent, somewhere water is prominent, air is prominent, somewhere earth is prominent. So here in this world, in this planet, the earth is prominent.
Guest: So, there is a distinction between permanent and the eternal?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: Prominent.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the king is evaṁ paramparā system. The king, the original king is the sun-god. Then his son, Manu, his son, Ikṣvāku. Everything is described. Why don't you see there?
Pañcadraviḍa: But who would be the king today? If we establish such a system, who would become the king?
Prabhupāda: Nobody would be king. Everyone is king and fight. That's all. Nobody is king. Everyone is a dog. And they are simply barking.
Devotee (1): In Africa, recently, one of the leaders has taken all the mūrtis and crucifixes from the churches and put his own statue.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Australian, that's nice. Learn this art and preach. There is good potency in your country. You are also not poverty. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣi means very rich, kings. He never said, "All the bungees understood it. All the wretched class understood it." He never taught. It is meant for the leaders of the society, opulent kings and leaders. It is meant for them. Poverty-stricken man cannot under... But there is no bar, there is no hindrance. But this is especially meant for the opulent person. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ? And He instructed first to the sun-god. He is not ordinary person. He instructed later on to Arjuna. He is not ordinary person. Because one important person learns the science, he will preach it all over the earth. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has directly said they are not ordinary persons. So unless one is materially not ordinary, he cannot preach. All the Gosvāmīs, they were coming from respectable... And where Gauḍīya Maṭha came? These are third-class men, no position in their past life.
Devotee (1): I think the tribes in South America, the Aztecs, they were also worshipers of the sun-god.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): They had very much gold. And the Spanish, they came and plundered the gold.
Prabhupāda: The aborigines here, they have got any religion?
Devotee (1): Where?
Prabhupāda: Here in Australia.
Devotee (1): Well, they mostly worship ghosts and spirits, I think. Trees.
Prabhupāda: Bhūtejyā.
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So there is religion. Yānti bhūtāni bhūtejyā. What is this "UJV"?
Prabhupāda: So far Kṛṣṇa consciousness is concerned, you can take it: since five thousand years, when Kṛṣṇa was present, He gave this instruction. But it existed before Kṛṣṇa's instruction. About forty millions of years ago He gave this instruction to the sun-god. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
So if we take up the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, then five thousand years ago this was spoken for the second time, and first time it was spoken forty millions of years ago. Therefore it is permanent, not that something new. It is existing eternally. Sometimes we are missing, and sometimes we are accepting, but it is existing eternally. You cannot trace out the history.
Prabhupāda: They are all impersonalists. They are pañcopāsana. Pañcopāsana means the ultimate, Absolute Truth is impersonal and Śaṅkarācārya recommended that you cannot worship the impersonal, so you conceive a personal form. So that he recommended five: the sun-god, Lord Śiva, Durgā, and Gaṇeśa, and? What else? And Viṣṇu.
Prof. Hopkins: Viṣṇu. Pañca (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But after you are per..., become, you are perfect, then you merge into the impersonal. That is Śaṅkara.
Prabhupāda: No, we say in the sun there is life. Otherwise how Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā science to the sun-god." So? Sun-god is dead stone, and Kṛṣṇa spoke to him?
Bahulāśva: They're very convinced, though, that they went to the moon, the scientists.
Devotee (3): I was going to ask you, Prabhupāda, is that the moon planet that we see, is that the same moon planet that's mentioned in the śāstras? The same planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes, same one. But the moon planet where they went, that is a dark planet. That is not moon planet.
Harikeśa:
- sri bhagavān uvāca
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
"The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Harikeśa: Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.
Prabhupāda: Again, rājarṣayo viduḥ, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ. Rājarṣaya (Bengali) India culture... (Bengali) Now I can help you. This is my... (Bengali) Sa kāleneha?
Harikeśa: Kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. First of all He spoke that... If you take history of Bhagavad-gītā, then it comes to forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. How do you calculate? The calculation is there. Any intelligent man can calculate because Brahmā's duration of life is mentioned there. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). So one yuga means forty-three lakhs of years and multiply it one thousand. That is Brahmā's duration of one day. Now, in one day there are seven Manus. So Vivasvān Manu's age can be calculated—at least forty millions of years ago. So the Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. It was spoken five thousand years ago to Arjuna. That was not the first speaking. He says, "I first spoke to Vivasvān, the sun-god." Yes, show him. (Bengali) ...I am manufacturing something. Everything is there. "If you simply follow, a great, wonderful thing will be done." She is now in a position. Simply she has to take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically. And that is not very difficult. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti... Parjanyād bhavanti bhūtāni. Make this program, immediately.
Prabhupāda: No. We don’t say like that. We say that God first spoke to sun-god, and sun-god spoke to his son, Manu, and Manu spoke to Ikṣvāku, Ikṣvāku spoke to his son. In this way are there. We don’t say, "The God spoke to me." Evaṁ paramparā prāptam, that is quite reasonable. God said to Brahmā, and the Brahmā said to Nārada, Nārada said to Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva said to others. In this way we should know. If my father said to my forefather… My forefather said to my father or my grandfather, and the same news is coming in family way, then where is the wrong? We don’t say, "Darwin simply knew it." No, we don’t say that. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam. He was a rascal number one, all these scientists, the so-called scientists.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But how can we prove Kṛṣṇa scientifically?
Prabhupāda: First of all let them prove their theory. Then we shall prove ours. We are proving. We have got our own way. But why they are speaking all this nonsense? First of all let him prove that he is genuine. Then our turn will be next. Ours is very easy. Kṛṣṇa said to sun-god, and sun-god said to his son, his son, his son. It is coming like that. Where is the difficulty? Again Kṛṣṇa says, "Now it is mismanaged. It is lost, so I am saying again to you Arjuna." So what Arjuna has understood, we are understanding the same way. How Arjuna understood it, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is the… We have no difficulty. But you jump over: "There is link," that "Once only from monkey came." What is this nonsense? We have to believe this? Has it any sense? And because Mr. Darwin is speaking we have to accept it? We cannot…
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is God. They are materially thinking, "If God has bifurcated Himself in so many, everywhere, all-pervading, then where is God?" This is foolishness. That Kṛṣṇa says, that
- mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
- jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
- mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
- na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
- (BG 9.4)
"Still I am separate." This is wanted. The example is there. Suppose a sunshine is there and throughout the whole universe, and if you say, "Now sun is finished," is sun finished? This is all foolishness. The sun is there; sun-god is there. Still, the sunshine is spread all over the universe.
Dr. Patel: Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya...
Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam... (Iso Invocation)
Dr. Patel: ...evāvaśiṣyate.
Prabhupāda: That.... Yes. That verse?
- mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha
- yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ
- asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ
- yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu
- (BG 7.1)
Asaṁśayam: "Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I'll see to(?)" This is our faith. We have no asaṁśaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asaṁśayaṁ samagram. Asaṁśayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). That's all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that's all.
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? Everything is explained. By seeing the sun one can understand the sunshine, the sun globe and the sun-god. There are three things. Within the sun globe, there is the sun-god. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "I spoke to Vivasvata." So there is a person Vivasvata, and the globe is there, we see, and the sunshine is there. So what is the difficulty to understand? Three things are there. The person within the sun globe, Vivasvata, is there, otherwise how Kṛṣṇa could speak with him? He says, imaṁ vivasvate yogam, "unto Vivasvata I spoke." So there is a person. And we can see the globe, and we can see the sunshine. Is there any difficulty? So similarly, the Brahman is the sunshine, light, and Paramātmā is the sun globe, and Bhagavān is the sun-god. This is, the sun is one example. From this example, we can understand the Absolute. Where is the difficulty? (aside:) Sit down properly. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). As heat and light, all of them are the same... In the sunshine there is heat and light, in the sun globe there is heat and light, and within the sun globe there is heat and light, but the temperature is different.
Hari-śauri: From 4.1?
- śrī bhagavān uvāca
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
"The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu, in turn, instructed it to Ikṣvāku."
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa instructed first to the sun-god. Sun-god instructed his son, Manu; he instructed his son, Ikṣvāku. In this way things are coming. Then read the second verse.
Hari-śauri:
- evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
- imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
- sa kāleneha mahatā
- yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
- (BG 4.2)
"This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost."
Prabhupāda: The succession was broken. So similarly, Christ says something. So if that commandment is received by succession, then it goes nicely. But if you break it according to your necessity, then where is the authority?
Prabhupāda: Ah, "I am just talking to you that purātanaḥ, old yoga system, which I spoke to the sun-god." "Why you are talking to me?" Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhakto 'si me...
Prabhupāda: Bhakto 'si me. He was not a Vedantist, he was a soldier. How the soldier can understand the highest topics of bhakti-yoga? Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). It is the yoga. How a soldier... Arjuna was not a Vedantist, he was a fighter. There was a doubt that "How a soldier can understand?" Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si, "You can understand because you are My bhakta." The first qualification, one must be a bhakta. Then he can understand. Otherwise it is not possible.
Mr. Deyani: How then can the God come in a human form, because human, when you talk of human body, it is a limited...
Prabhupāda: Why bacteria? Human beings. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa is speaking the sun-god? Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Simply the sun-god is alone living?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: Then the sun planet there are living entities. Their body is made of fire, that's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's better to say that when science says, scientists say there is no life in other planets, we can conclude that the senses or the forms that we have, or the elements that we have different...
Prabhupāda: They are different. Just like in the water, superficially we don't see any living being. But inside you go, there are many millions of living entities. They took photograph. What is the meaning of photograph from such a distance? If you take photograph of the sea, what you will find? It is vacant.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) He's a person, sun-god. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), a person. That is his planet. He is the predominating Deity. And similarly moon. And the kṣatriyas, they are coming from these two planets. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave... Ikṣvāku is the sūrya-vaṁśa, the kṣatriya family coming from the sun.
Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're taking this from the Bhāgavatam. Won't they just think that this is myth?
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) is myth? Who believes you? If you don't believe me, I don't believe you. Finished.
Prabhupāda: First of all, we do not accept anyone as guru if he's not competent to understand Bhagavad-gītā and preach it also. He's not a guru. The guru's definition given in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), in the Fourth Chapter you'll find, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt.
- evaṁ paramparā-prāptam
- imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ
- sa kāleneha mahatā
- yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa
- (BG 4.2)
Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, this Bhagavad-gītā philosophy or yoga system, first of all I spoke to the sun-god. And then he spoke to his son, Manu. Then Manu spoke to his son Ikṣvāku." In this way the knowledge comes down from the spiritual master to the disciple or from the father to the son. So unless one comes in this disciplic succession, he cannot become guru.
Pradyumna:
- sāyaṁ prātar upāsīta
- gurv-agny-arka-surottamān
- sandhye ubhe ca yata-vāg
- japan brahma samāhitaḥ
"At both junctions of day, namely, in the early morning and in the evening, he should be fully absorbed in thoughts of the spiritual master, fire, the sun-god and Lord Viṣṇu, and by chanting the Gāyatrī mantra he should worship them."
Prabhupāda: Go on reading.
Pradyumna:
- chandāṁsy adhīyīta guror
- āhūtaś cet suyantritaḥ
- upakrame 'vasāne ca
- caraṇau śirasā namet
"Being called by the spiritual master, the student should study the Vedic mantras regularly. Every day, before beginning his studies and at the end of his studies, the disciple should respectfully offer obeisances unto the spiritual master."
Prabhupāda: (dictating:) So one has to accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, how He is originally the puruṣa or person. Impersonal Brahman is expansion of the rays of His personal body, exactly like the sunshine is expansion of the rays of the sun-god Vivasvān. Vivasvān is a person in the sunglobe and Kṛṣṇa is also a person who spoke the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā long, long years before He spoke the same to Arjuna. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Therefore the conclusion is that originally God is always a person. Impersonal Brahman is emanation from the personal God. In other words, God, personal God is not from impersonal Brahman, but impersonal Brahman is from the personal God. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā as follows.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor. Varieties. Some are trees, some are plants, some are aquatics, some are birds, beasts, insects. Different varieties of life, 8,400,000. Some of them demigods, Brahmā, Indra, Candra. Very, very powerful. Just like this sun, that is also a planet, and the chief person is the sun-god Vivasvān. We get all this information. There is. These rascals, they do not know what are these planets, what are the arrangement. They are exactly like this planet. Just like here also, we have got president. It is expected, one president or one king in one planet. That was formerly. On this planet there was one king. The Pāṇḍavas, up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Five thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. He can go. (Hindi)
Boy: Is the sun-god an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Everyone is incarnation. You are also. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). You have not read Bhagavad-gītā? Any living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like this child is the part and parcel of his father, you are part and parcel of your father. Similarly, every one of us, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.
Boy: Is the sun-god an avatāra?
Prabhupāda: Any god or dog, anyone is part and parcel. This is our land? No.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. It goes all... That's a village. That... Those trees there is the village.
Devotee: Those date trees are on our land?
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "This science of Bhagavad-gītā, I spoke to the sun-god millions of years ago." By the calculation it is forty millions of years ago. Now who will believe that, that Kṛṣṇa spoke this Bhagavad-gītā forty millions of years ago to the sun-god? Hm? Who will believe that? They'll say mythology. So where is the faith in Bhagavad-gītā and faith in the words of Kṛṣṇa? Understanding Hamlet without Hamlet. (distortion) You cannot make your interpretation that whatever is written there, I take instead of..., I take... (coughing) That is not the way of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. Then from the very beginning you'll spoil it. Then what is the meaning of preaching Bhagavad-gītā? If you do not accept the direction of the author, then what right you have got to say that you have understood Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No. Therefore he should go to the master. Because he is ignorant, he must go to the master. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). But if you capture one, another person as master who is like me, then you are failure. Therefore we should accept the recognized master by everyone. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the master. Beginning from all sources. Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva is the original guru. So what Vyāsadeva has said about Kṛṣṇa. Then Vyāsadeva, later on Nārada Muni. And from Nārada Muni, Vyāsadeva. And from Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing about Kṛṣṇa. Then paramparā, from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, others, Sūta Gosvāmī, like that. The knowledge is the same. Kṛṣṇa says that "I spoke about this knowledge to the sun-god. And he explained this knowledge to Manu." So in this way, apart from that, that I have not seen Manu I do not know. But when there is Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "That's a fact." So you understand from Arjuna what Arjuna said. Why should you go to somebody else? That is written record, how Arjuna understood.
Prabhupāda: Similarly to go to the Absolute Truth, you begin with impersonal Brahman. Just as sunshine is impersonal, but everyone can see the sunshine is coming from the sun surface. Everyone knows that. Therefore the sunshine is not so important as the sunglobe. Similarly brahma-tattva-nirviśeṣa, nirākāra-brahma is there, but more important than is the localized aspect. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61), God is all-pervading. The sunshine is all-pervading, and as Paramātmā He is also all-pervading. But if you can enter into the sunglobe, you will meet with the sun god. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god." So there is sun-god. Sun-god and the sun globe and the sunshine, they are one. But different stages of understanding. Similarly, Brahman understanding, Paramātmā understanding, then the Supreme Personality of Godhead understanding. Advaya-jñāna. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). But if you stop simply in the sunshine, that means you have no knowledge of the sun god or the sun globe. If you have simply knowledge of the sun globe, then you are not aware of what is the sun-god. But if you know sun-god, then you know what is sun globe and the sunshine. That is wanted. That is perfect knowledge. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is contradictory. Unless you have got a personality, you cannot speak, you cannot think. So how it is nirākāra? That is my first point. Kṛṣṇa says, "aham." He is person. We worship Kṛṣṇa as person. He says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). That "aham," He's person. We are accepting Kṛṣṇa as person because he says aham ādir hi devānām.
- ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
- mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
- iti matvā bhajante māṁ
- budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
- (BG 10.8)
He's person. Kṛṣṇa never said that "I am nirākāra." Where He has said? Can you quote any verse? When He says nirākāra, He says like this, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). Mayā, by Me. Tatam idaṁ sarvam, everywhere, by My energy. Just like the sun-god. The sun-god is within the sun globe. His bodily luster is coming. The sun-god can say, "The sunshine is my bodily exposition." That is reasonable. Just like a big light, it has got exposition. Similarly... And that is confirmed in the śāstra. Yasya prabhā prabhavataḥ (Bs. 5.40). Yasya, the person.
Prabhupāda: Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is Vedānta. Yes. That is Vedānta. Brahma-sūtra. This is Vedānta. So this life is meant for Vedānta. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And what is Brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ. Brahman means the Supreme Soul of everything. And Kṛṣṇa replies, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Then Vedānta study... I'm inquiring what is the ultimate source of everything and here is the answer. If you don't believe, that is another thing. You go on talking like anything. That is another thing. But answer is there. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So we have to go to such mahātmā who knows vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. Then it will be all right. If we want to waste time, that is another thing. I am very glad to see you. So I wish that you may spread real Vedānta. That is essence of Vedas. Vedānta means the essence of Vedas. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Light is, of course there is light in the sunshine and there is light in the sun-globe, but the source of light is coming from the sun-god.
Prabhupāda: There are so many ācāryas. They never say. So, we have to follow, ācāryopāsanam, not the rascals. We cannot worship the rascals. Worship ācāryas. They are guide. So śāstra says... Find out sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Purātanaḥ, Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), "I spoke this science to Vivasvān, the sun-god." So if you calculate sun, this sun, Vivasvān, is the father of Manu, Vaivasvata Manu. And if you take, calculate, it becomes forty millions of years. So this Bhagavad-gītā is spoken, according to the Bhagavad-gītā, according to the version of Kṛṣṇa, forty millions of years ago. Now He says that science was known to the people by paramparā. And that paramparā is lost somehow or other. Therefore as... (break) Suppose you are born in Bombay, but you do not know how the state is being managed, then what is my jñāna? If you do not know how the state is being managed then what is your jñāna?
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." So Bhagavad-gītā was spoken when Śaṅkarācārya's father's father was not born. Now understand it? At least forty millions of years ago, at least. So how do you say that before? You read Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there.
Guest (4): But they do not take it in such a...
Prabhupāda: They may be rascal. Why you should become rascal? There it is written, the document. They may be rascals, but why you become rascal, following the rascals? You are following not Kṛṣṇa. You are following another rascal. Why? That is your misfortune. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). He says. You do not take Kṛṣṇa, you take another rascal. Then how you can be helped? Kṛṣṇa says, the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā, that "I told him," and you do not take it. You take another rascal. Then who will guide you? You remain rascal. What can be done? Śaṅkarācārya may be seventeen hundred years. Buddha is two hundred and fifty. And Bhagavad-gītā, five thousand years ago, this Bhagavad-gītā... And before that, puruṣa, forty millions of years ago... If you don't believe Bhagavad-gītā, then don't talk of Bhagavad-gītā. You talk of Śaṅkarācārya, Sunātha,(?) this... That is another thing. But if you talk of Bhagavad-gītā, it is stated there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, "sun-god" means he lives in the sun.
Prabhupāda: Vivasvān manave prāha. And Manu, his son, his family and...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: House.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is there. You are scientist. You are very expert, more than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you believe like that.
Hari-śauri: Then if we accept your reasoning, then show us practically where there is life in fire.
Prabhupāda: You cannot see, rascal, because you are rascal. Therefore you cannot see. You have to hear. That is also... Because you are rascal, you cannot see. You simply... Just like you have not seen your father. Rascal, who can see? Who is that rascal who can see his father? You have to hear from the mother. You rascal, you cannot see your father. Why you are claiming that "I want to see my real father." That is not possible. You have to simply hear from the mother. That is only source. Similarly, you are rascal, everything is, you, imperfect, so you have to hear from the authority. That is only source.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): "Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, whose enemy was never born, performed his daily morning duties by praying, offering fire sacrifice to the sun-god, and offering obeisances, grains, cows, land and gold to the brāhmaṇas. He then entered the palace to pay respects to the elderly. However, he could not find his uncles or aunt, the daughter of King Subala." Should I read the purport?
Prabhupāda: No. What is the śloka?
Correspondence
1968 Correspondence
I am in due receipt of your letter dated 3/10/68, and I thank you very much for it. Yes, the wind, the earth, the water, and so forth, all have controlling personalities. Just like there is a sun god, who is in charge of the sun planet; similarly, for each body of water, for the wind, there are controlling personalities. They are in control of some small part of the material creation, but the ultimate Controller is Krishna. These demigods all are servants of the Supreme Controller.
I am very pleased to hear about Krishna's new throne of gold leaf and velvet. I am anxious to come there and see it, along with all you my students there who are carrying on so nicely even in my absence. But you must know that I am always with you all so long you are executing Krishna Consciousness; and I am always receiving good news of the New York Temple so it is very nice that now you have provided Krishna a beautiful new throne.
Yudhisthira asked her why you are crying, he is the enemy, and she said, he was my first son. He was born out of her ear, so he was called Karna. When she was very young, she got some mantra which could be used to call any demigod, so just to try it, as experiment, to see if it worked, she called the sun god. He immediately appeared there before her, and said, I will give you the benediction of one son; she replied that she simply was experimenting with this mantra, that she did not want a son, and she became afraid as she was unmarried girl. He said I shall give you a son anyway, and it will be born out of your ear. So as she was virgin girl, she became very frightened that people may say things, so she put him into the ocean. Yes, Karna had many extraordinary attributes. He was a great soldier, and a most charitable man.
1969 Correspondence
"What is the difference between a Mayavadi philosopher and a Krishna Conscious person?" The answer is that the Mayavadi philosopher has only imperfect knowledge of God, whereas the Krishna Conscious person can understand Krishna fully. The example is given that a person may know about the sunlight, but that does not mean that he knows about the Sun God within the Sun planet. Within the Sun there is a Sun God, named Vivaswan, and his body and the bodies of the other inhabitants are made of fire. It is the heat from these fiery bodies that gives warmth and light to this universe. So if someone knows something about the sunlight, it does not mean that he has knowledge about Vivaswan. Similarly, from Krishna's Spiritual Body there is the emanation of the Brahma effulgence, but even if they are able to merge into this effulgence emanating from Krishna's Body, are able to merge into this effulgence emanating from Krishna's Body, that does not give them perfect knowledge of the Source of everything.
Regarding your question about the Brahmajyoti, it is explained in Bhagavad-gita that the impersonal Brahman effulgence is emanating from Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The brahmajyoti is just like the sunlight, which emanates from the Sun God: Because the sunlight has no personal form, this does not mean that the Sun God has become impersonal. You have seen in pictures of Lord Krishna that there is a nice effulgence coming forth from His body. This effulgence is the Brahmajyoti, and it is pervading throughout the entire spiritual and material manifestation. But above this Brahmajyoti is the Supreme Source of everything, Lord Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. I hope this important point is clear to you now.
1970 Correspondence
A man pictured dead and also living. Krsna says to Arjuna, "the wise mourn not for the dead or the living." 5) pictures of an individual from babyhood to youthhood, in manhood and in old age and death. The figure of the soul in each different body remains the same indicating that the body changes, not the soul. 6) Krsna instructing the Sun-god; Vivasvan instructing Manu (his son). I will send you more ideas later if required by you.
1971 Correspondence
You can show in sequence in a painting how Narada Muni is leaving the material body and accepting a spiritual body and entering into Lord Visnu and again coming out through Brahma's heart.
Arjuna was not present when Krishna spoke Bhagavad-gita to the sun god. He was present on a different occasion. So the picture is all right. The painting of the chariot of the body is nice.
Yes, it will be easier for me to answer your questions if I can see a sketch of the painting. So far as the sacrificial fire at Naimisaranya, it was a big pit, say four feet square surrounded by raised walls 8 inches high and within the pit was the fire. That is the system. Our sacrificial fire arenas are temporary only. Yes, it was near Suta Goswami's vyasasana.
1975 Correspondence
We do not take these mundane histories as authority. Regarding the dating of the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Battle of Kuruksetra took place at the beginning of Kali yuga, and Kali yuga has passed more than 5,000 years. The Bhagavad-gita was also spoken at the beginning of the fight, so we take it as 5,000 years ago. From the Bhagavad-gita we learn it was spoken by the sun god millions of years ago. We take this as authority. If you don't accept my authority, then I don't accept your authority. That is the way of evidence, to accept the Srimad-Bhagavatam and the Vedic literature. The calculation is that the Kali yuga is 432,000 years, out of which we have passed 5,000 years.
| Page Title: | Sun-god (Conv. and Letters) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 25 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=70, Let=7 |
| No. of Quotes: | 77 |