Prabhupāda: No, not useless. But just like if you kindle fire and at the same time pour water, it will take long time. To kindle fire, make it dry, keep it dry. Then it will be very quickly successful. So you are committing offenses, at the same time chanting, so by chanting effect, you will come to that stage, but it will take time. If you want to be transferred to the spiritual world quickly, just like if you want to ignite the fire very quickly, you must keep it dry. If you simply put on the wet wood, then the fire will not be very powerful. It will be... It will take time. The fire will be blazing fire. Then it will dry. It will take... Better put dry wood to make it successful. This is the process. The effect of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will not go in vain, but it will take time. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Because he is thinking "By the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, I can do anything, all sinful activities, and it will be adjusted," that is the greatest offense, not only offense, the greatest offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.
Successful (Conversations 1975)
Expressions researched:
"succesful"
|"successful"
|"successfully"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Whether you live in temple or outside temple, the rules and regulation and the process must be followed. Then you are successful. It doesn't matter that you have to live in the temple. Gṛhe thāko vane thāko, 'hā gaurāṅga' bo'le ḍāko. Not that everyone has to live in the temple. If he does not agree with other Godbrothers, friends, he can live separately. But he must follow the rules and regulation. That is wanted. But if you live with devotees, it will be automatically done.
Siddha-svarūpa: Easy.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do."
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya pracūra. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya... Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's very difficult to control my mind when I chant. It wanders.
Prabhupāda: So what is the controlling of mind? You have to chant and hear, that's all. You have to chant with your tongue, and the sound you hear, that's all. What is the question of mind?
Prabhupāda: My movement is genuine.
Guest (2): ...to choose a successor.
Prabhupāda: It is already successful. Genuine thing is always success. Gold is gold. If somebody is fortunate, he can purchase gold, but gold remains gold. If somebody purchases and somebody does not, it doesn't matter. Gold is gold. So future, gold future is always the same as it is at present—if it is gold. If it is something glittering, that is another thing.
Guest (4): But there must be somebody, you know, needed to handle the thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are creating. We are creating these devotees who will handle.
Hanumān: One thing he's saying, this gentleman, and I would like to know, is your successor named or your successor will...
Prabhupāda: My success is always there. Yes. Just like the sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not. The sun is there. But if you are fortunate, you come before the sun. Otherwise you remain in darkness. Sun is open to everyone. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement—Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. But if you are fortunate, you come to the light. If you are unfortunate, do not. That is your choice. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Prabhupāda: That is called realization. Yes. First of all you receive the sound, then apply your instruments, and when you find it, it is correct—that is the realization. So our process is to receive knowledge from the perfect. That's all. We are not perfect. But the knowledge we are getting, that is perfect. So according to that perfect direction, if we mold our life, then we are successful. Otherwise you go on experimenting, speculating. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Ciram, you understand, "perpetually," vicinvan, "thinking." Ciraṁ vicinvan.
- athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvaya-
- prasāda-leśānugṛhīta eva hi
- jānāti tattvaṁ (bhagavan mahimno)
- na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan
- (SB 10.14.29)
What is the use of speculating with imperfect senses? Useless waste of time.
Professor: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But that is the tendency of modern... They do not accept that their senses are imperfect. They want to see something, distant place, with microscope... What is called? Telescope. Telescope. But the telescope is manufactured by you. It is imperfect.
Prabhupāda: If sexual intercourse is the beginning of life, then why it is not always successful? We say that when the life, living entity, is there in the semina and it is put into the woman's womb, then body develops. Therefore, the beginning is the life. This is practical. And this life is the part and parcel of the supreme life. Therefore the beginning is God. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So we have to establish this theory in this misguided world that... And besides that, why they cannot produce life from matter? What is the value of their statement? That they have not been able to do. Where is the proof that from matter life comes? You do it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Proof is under investigation. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Eh? That is nonsense. That is nonsense. This proof, that from life, life is coming, there is proof, so many proof. A man, animal, trees—everything is coming from life. Up till now, nobody has seen that a man is born from a stone. Nobody has seen. Sometimes it is called vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. You know that? Vṛścika-taṇdūla-nyāya. Vṛścika means scorpion, and taṇdūla means rice. Sometimes we see some heaps of rice, the scorpion is coming. But that is not that the rice has given birth to the scorpion. You have not seen in your country?
Prabhupāda: He asked him, that rascal chemist, that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" That time he said, "No, that I cannot say." Why do you say like that? In the beginning, in New York, that store front, the Satsvarūpa is with..., and Hayagrīva and... And you chant simply. You were also there. So this chanting is proving efficient. That is Vedic knowledge. It is not theory. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not theory or mental speculation. It is a fact. So therefore it is said,
- guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya,
- ār nā koriho mane āśā **
So whatever little success I have got, it is only for this reason. My Guru Mahārāja said that "You go and preach whatever you learned in English language." That's all. So I came here with this faith, that "My Guru Mahārāja said. I must be successful." I did not show any jugglery to you, gold-making jugglery. Where is my gold? I came with forty rupees first. (chuckles) So these are Vedic instruction, guru-mukha-padma-vākya **, and:
śrī-guru-caraṇe rati, ei se uttama-gati
That is real progress. So this is Vedic instruction. We have to follow the Vedic injunction. Then you will be successful. Not these rascals' theory. It is useless.
Prabhupāda: The standard is given by... That is standard, as that Vedic language, Vedic instruction. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave the standard, harer nāma: (CC Adi 17.21) "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Immediately successful. That is standard. Otherwise how you will find standard? Therefore it is said, guru-mukha-pad... That is standard. What you hear from a bona fide guru, that is standard. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Anyone who will do this standard, he will become devotee. And as soon as he become devotee, he is fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. Yes, this is standard. What Kṛṣṇa says? Find out this verse. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is standard. All nonsense. Ār nā koriho mane āśā. Don't accept anything. This is standard. What is that?
Paramahaṁsa:
- man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
- mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
- mām evaiśyasi satyaṁ te
- pratijāne priyo 'si me
- (BG 18.65)
"Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer..." (end)
Devotee (4): We were thinking about how everyone knows about Kṛṣṇa now. In the United States they didn't know before, but when they see this little picture on the book, they all know, "That is Kṛṣṇa." We hand them the book, and we say, "We're passing these out." They say, "Oh, that is Kṛṣṇa." So it's so successful that everyone has learned about Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, as soon as they see the picture, they understand it is Kṛṣṇa.
Tripurāri: They see the picture of Kṛṣṇa or the name and they think of the devotees chanting.
Prabhupāda: Oh, by seeing you.
Tripurāri: No, when they see the book they think, "Oh, the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees. I saw them on the street." When they see the picture of Kṛṣṇa on the book, they think of the devotees chanting.
Prabhupāda: Push on this. Then our movement is successful. All Americans should have at least one set of book. That is not very difficult for them, to purchase one set book. But it will be a good asset for them if they keep and see sometimes. Any line he reads, he will get transcendental knowledge.
Devotee (1): There is one very wealthy man in Atlanta who... We went and did a nice presentation at his home. And then afterwards we distributed prasādam and had a nice bhajana, kīrtanas. Then afterwards he bought the whole set of literatures and gave a hundred dollar donation for all of the literatures, and he has them now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. For an American gentleman one hundred dollars is nothing.
Devotee (3): One nice boy in the airport, he was a soldier boy. He had, like read a Kṛṣṇa trilogy, and he was coming through the airport, and I approached him. And he immediately saw the books, and he immediately wanted one. And I didn't even have to ask him for the donation. Automatically he gave $20. And then I was walking down the hall, and I saw him again, and he came running up to me again, and he said, "Here, you're doing such a wonderful thing. Let me give you another $20." And somebody walked by as I was giving him another book, and they said, "Don't take that book. It's a rip-off. These people are trying to rip you off."
Prabhupāda: He was asking?
Tripurāri: Yes.
Devotee (1): And wherever he would go the devotees would be there with prasāda and literatures, distributing profusely. Very successful. Sometimes it seems that Kṛṣṇa is arranging these concerts simply so young people can come together so we can be there to reach many, many thousands at one time.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.
Tripurāri: But we have no attraction for Kṛṣṇa. You are attracting us to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Actually Kṛṣṇa is attracting. One, what is called, touchstone, no? Magnetic stone?
Tripurāri: Yes, magnet.
Prabhupāda: ...Meeting was very successful. You were present in Delhi? Very, very successful. All big, big men came, and they realized. We are going to have again that for two days. That is being arranged.
Paramahaṁsa: In Delhi, yes. That will be nice.
Prabhupāda: And who is thinking in that way...? We are thinking like that. Keep it covered.
Paramahaṁsa: On the table there?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Child talking and Prabhupāda says something in Hindi) Dr. Ghora (?), you can say. The aim should be saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. But if we don't care for this proposition... They do not know what is God, neither we don't want to satisfy Him, "He may be satisfied or not satisfied. Let us go on with our business." (Hindu)
Indian man (1): A lot of dangers will be there. We'll be putting ourself into trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they gave us place. At the last moment they rejected. First of all they gave. Then, at the last moment, the municipality said, "No, this land cannot be given to any religious function." Rejected. And offered, "If you like, you can take this place." So we had no other alternative to accept it. We advertised that "We are going to hold this ceremony," and the authority rejected at the eleventh hour and offered the Tal Kotara place. We had to accept it. And the government indirectly giving us so many hindrances in India. Yes. They do not like. One of the important member of the cabinet, he frankly said that "We do not want that your movement will increase very fast in India." Because they know it, Indira Gandhi and company, that India is naturally inclined to Kṛṣṇa. And if the selected people of the world, combined together, they push this movement in India, then the whole program of the modern leaders will collapse. That's a fact. And that was my idea. I wanted to start this movement from India. But nobody cooperated. So then I decided to come to America. And my plan was successful.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Suppose everyone becomes head. Then where is this supply of hands and legs? We do not say that everyone become brain. The brain is ordering, and who will carry the order? The order-carrier must be there, but they must carry order of the brāhmaṇa. Then it will be all right. The brain must be there, and the legs must be there. The legs must move by the dictation of the brain. Then it is perfect. It is not expected also that everyone will become brāhmaṇa. Therefore guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Everyone has got his particular qualities. So we have to utilize—what quality does he belong? But at the present moment the difficulty is that they do not care that in the society there must be a class of brain, brāhmaṇa. That they do not know. They want everyone should become a śūdra, the Communists life, worker, "Work." And therefore they have not been successful. The whole nation is worker, and who will give the brain?
Prabhupāda: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body—"Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Madhudviṣa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...
Prabhupāda: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?
Madhudviṣa: They say, "uncivilized."
Prabhupāda: Everything exists. For the time being, he may merge; then again he'll come to enjoy this material body. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. Patanty adhaḥ. Even they become merged into the existence of Brahman, again they come back because there is no āśraya. Just like these air, airplanes or the jets. They have invented very good machine, eighteen thousand miles per hour, going very high, but there is no place. They come down again. That is a fact. What is the use of going so high, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and travel and then again come back. Why do you take unnecessary trouble if you cannot stay there? You migrated from Europe and other countries to America. You got shelter. You stayed there. That colonization was successful. But if you are going to colonize in the moon and there is no place to stay, then why you are spending so much money unnecessarily? What is this foolishness? And they have stopped now. So in this way they are trying to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but where to stay? They can stay in the Brahman effulgence as minute particle of soul, but the soul wants ananda, then again—"It was better to live in the material world." They come back again. That is statement of the śāstra. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. They may go very high, same way as the jets are going, but there is no shelter. Shelter is the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So without shelter, they cannot remain there, and because by nature he wants ānanda... Suppose if you remain in the sky for many, many years, would you feel very comfortable?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, you are thinking under the spell of māyā, that's all. Tribhir guṇamāyāir bhavair mohita, nā 'bhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). These things are there. Read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, follow the rules and regulations, then your life will be successful. And so long you have got, this is also right, that is also right, then you will not do the right. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not (indistinct). What Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. That should be the (indistinct). Otherwise you will be misled. So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe, very small number, but ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra. If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling. So that is our propaganda. If one man can understand what is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, then my preaching is successful, that's all. We don't want many millions of stars with no light. What is the use of millions of stars with no light? That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, varam eka putra na chavur kasatan api (?). One son, if he is learned, that is sufficient. Na chavur kasatan api (?). What is the use of hundreds of sons, all fools and rascals? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasras. One moon is sufficient to illuminate. There is no need of millions of stars. Similarly, we are not after many millions of disciples. I want to see that one disciple has understood Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. That is success. That's all. Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānāṁ (BG 7.3),
Prabhupāda: Anyway, she was think that by cheating this man I am becoming successful. Then she, without any restriction, she began to cheat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: And because he was Mahārāja so he became, she became Mahārānī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still he's being fooled by her. Those birds I think are the ones from the cage. Because they're being fed they're all, agree to be...
Prabhupāda: ...put in cage. (indistinct) free. They can go away, but no...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like, the human beings are like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśodānandana: Do you think that... As the Kali-yuga progresses the people are getting smaller. Does this mean that Kṛṣṇa and His associates were much taller in stature than we are now?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśodānandana: They were much bigger.
Prabhupāda: So, some of the big men, past politician like Nandaji, they are also thinking very nicely. Now it is the time to coordinate all these thinkers on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā as we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That should be seriously taken. And another difficulty is that without any reference to the śāstra there are so many spiritual propagandist. That is not very good. That is not very good, not good at all. No question of very good. They are more or less atheist. They will not take, accept the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. They'll manufacture their own way. That will not help us. You must take the standard things. Then it will be successful. In my, this propaganda, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I am very much satisfied that I did not adulterate any instruction of the śāstra. And it is becoming very effective. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). Find out this verse. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya.
Brahmānanda: Is that y-a?
Prabhupāda: Y-a-h. Yaḥ śāstra.
Brahmānanda: Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that verse. This index has been done by them. Yes.
Guest: If some definite example is there, then they will immediately copy. See, they are copy-minded. If suppose we open up a temple here and the conditions here improve, automatically everybody'll take up. So we will see next year. Automatically when things are done by copying, they would like to go by the copy method, not by experimentation. So if our temples are successful in Māyāpur and Hyderabad and everywhere, farms are attained, and if they are able to produce better things, they will understand, "Oh, because of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, people are becoming more prosperous." Automatically they will come therefore.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is also nice. (break) We have no factory; we have no business.
Guest: People are wondering now. They are asking me.
Prabhupāda: So why they do not imitate this?
Guest: No, they will imitate. Because that's why we are going to Ahmedabad to that we can give the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, if that is, they want to see practically, so practically we have got 102 branches and maintaining so many men, but we have no business.
Guest: No, ISKCON has done better than any government. In ten years what ISKCON has done, no other government has done.
Prabhupāda: So, this is foolishness. You become very bold enough, "Now I shall cook without fire." You are a rascal number one. Gandhi did it. Actually he could not drive away the Britishers by nonviolence, for thirty years, thirty-five years he struggled. When Subash Bose introduced violence, they were forced out. This is politics. Politics and nonviolence (incompatible). There is no history in the world that politics has been successful without violence, and he introduced this. So how much foolish he was, you can understand. It is same thing like that, if somebody says, "I'll cook without any. I shall scientifically do that a man can give birth to a child." There is no history, and if I say, "Now I shall do it. I shall see that equal rights. As a woman is giving birth to a child, the man will also will give child." These things are foolishness. This is not intelligence. The women are claiming equal rights. So, stop giving birth to a child? Then equal rights. Can it be possible? The man and woman unite, but the woman becomes pregnant, not the man. And if somebody says, now the man will become pregnant, is it not foolishness?
Paramahaṁsa: But they have made a way so that the women also don't have to become pregnant. This contraceptive, and...
Prabhupāda: This is another foolishness. (indistinct) another... (break) This unnatural thing. (break) What is this insignia?
Paramahaṁsa: "As far as the duties of mankind are concerned, there are innumerable duties. Every man is duty-bound not only to his parents, family members, society, country, humanity, other living beings, the demigods, etc., but also to the great philosophers, poets, scientists, etc. It is enjoined in the scriptures that one can relinquish all such duties and surrender unto the service of the Lord. So if one does so and becomes successful in the discharge of his devotional service unto the Lord, it is well and good. But it so happens sometimes that one surrenders himself unto the service of the Lord by some temporary sentiment, and in the long run, due to so many other reasons, he falls down from the path of service by undesirable association. There are so many instances of this in the histories. Bharata Mahārāja was obliged to take his birth as a stag due to his intimate attachment to a stag. He thought of this stag when he died. As such, in the next birth he became a stag, although he did not forget the incidents of his previous birth. Similarly, Citraketu also fell down due to his offenses at the feet of Śiva. But in spite of all this, the stress is given here to surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord, even if there is a chance of falling down, because even though one falls down from the prescribed duties of devotional service, he will never forget the lotus feet of the Lord. Once engaged in the devotional service of the Lord, one will continue the service in all circumstances. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that even a small quantity of devotional service can save one from the most dangerous position. There are many instances of such examples in history. Ajāmila is one of them. Ajāmila in his early life was a devotee, but in his youth he fell down. Still, he was saved by the Lord at the end."
Prabhupāda: Even by sentiment one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is not loser; he is gainer. And if one person does not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he does his duty very nicely, he gains nothing.
Prabhupāda: It is not meant for mass people. Only selected fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "If I could make one person to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then my mission would be successful." It is not for mass person. Only the fortunate they can do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by introducing saṅkīrtana, even the mass can take part. When there is saṅkīrtana, everyone joins. And by joining in that way, they will become purified.
Amogha: In Sydney, the city council once tried to stop us, legally, from chanting in the streets. First they arrested us two years ago, but then they spent many dollars of tax money to prepare a case for the court, and they didn't even tell us. They had the court session, and the judge ruled that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting in the streets is good. It adds color to the city and is not illegal. Why you are saying this is illegal? This is their right. And it makes the city more colorful."
Prabhupāda: Nice judge. God gave him sense.
Prabhupāda: That is going on?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Successful?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, sometimes. Sometimes they have some difficulties, but they have had many successful operations. (break) She can't have... It can't have a baby. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They are doing?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, they're changing, but they can't become pregnant. That's the only thing. They take these special hormones, and then they can grow breasts and everything just like a woman. But they can't become pregnant.
Amogha: In the newspaper there was an article about two weeks ago about a Christian church in America where they have a naked dancer come.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Amogha: They had a lady who dances, taking off her clothes, so the people will come to church. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good. They are not understanding; still, you have to go. Then Kṛṣṇa will take that "He is laboring so hard for My sake." Never mind he is successful. It doesn't matter. But you are working hard for Kṛṣṇa. That is noted down. So our business is to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Whether one man is converted or not converted, that is not our business. We shall try our best. But Kṛṣṇa must see that I am giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is wanted. Not that you have to judge that you have approached so many men; nobody became Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: That and many others, they also do that. They also worship Jesus Christ. That is... (break) We have no disrespect for anyone.
Dr. Copeland: And you've been rather successful in institutionalizing your religion, getting a large number of temples constructed or built or taken over, and a large number of followers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Copeland: Why do you think you are so successful?
Prabhupāda: I don't think I am successful, but people say.
Dr. Copeland: (laughs) Very good.
Prabhupāda: I will be successful when everyone will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Copeland: But in Western countries, where people have to adopt to the different style of dress and a different life-style altogether, it means that you're asking for a very large commitment from people, and yet they do it. Are you saying that it's the strength of what you're preaching, or are they unhappy with what they've found otherwise?
Prabhupāda: Even one is failure. And one who is successful? Then? Janma karma...
Madhudviṣa:
- janma karma ca me divyam
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
"Anyone who understands the transcendental nature of My birth and activities does not again return to this material world, but comes to My supreme abode."
Prabhupāda: This is for the successful, and that is for the unsuccessful.
Dr. Copeland: And, while we're on success, how many people in India are becoming like these?
Prabhupāda: Many.
Dr. Copeland: As many as in the West, or more?
Prabhupāda: More.
Dr. Copeland: Well, when I first came in, I asked you why were you so successful, and you said, "I don't know how you measure success," and now you're measuring success by numbers, and that's not fair. That's not logical.
Prabhupāda: No, my standard of success is little different. Of course, this is success. Everyone is saying I am successful. So it is not unsuccessful. But my standard of success is little different. So even if it not fully successful, still, the results are there.
Dr. Copeland: Ah, fair enough.
Prabhupāda: That is called payi-nukuta-nyāya.(?) And when I find full successful, just imagine what is that. This is partial success.
Dr. Copeland: (laughing) That's called "touche."
Prabhupāda: This is the logic, that the partial success is this, and when it will be full successful, you cannot imagine that, what is.
Dr. Copeland: (Tape garbled) Ācchā. I don't want to ...
Prabhupāda: Give him some prasāda.
Director: Yeah, sure. I believe that you should have these standards if you want them, if anybody wants them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is making us successful. We do not make any compromise. This is our method. If you like, you take it. If you don't like, you go away. Don't mind.
Director: If you can convince the society to change, then the public servants will change.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are in the society, we are inviting everyone, they are coming. They are coming. Gradually they are becoming converted to this.
Director: When will you be coming back to Melbourne?
Prabhupāda: Next January.
Director: Come again this often...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I am going, but I only hopeful on these young boys. They will do. Take the whole plate. Take the whole plate, it is fruit, it is very nice. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). This is meant for human being, the fruits. The tigers will not eat the fruits. The tiger, canine teeth, they will not like. We have got different teeth for eating fruit.
Prabhupāda: The advancement of knowledge in any department, that is very good. But what is the aim? The aim is to glorify the Supreme Lord. Just like you are lawyer. You gave us help in some difficulty time. Why? Because you wanted to continue glorification of the Lord, that "These men are doing nice. Why they should be harassed?" So that means you helped glorification of the Lord. So that's your success as a lawyer. So anyone who helps this movement, that "They are spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. They should be helped in all respect," that is the perfection. Everything is required, but it should be culminated in the matter of glorifying the Supreme. Then it is perfect. In another place... Find out this verse,
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
Just like you have helped this institution in a difficult position. That means you have pleased Kṛṣṇa. That is your success. My devotees are in difficulty.
They wanted some legal help. You, as a lawyer, helped them, so you have pleased Kṛṣṇa, God. That is the aim of life. Whether by my work in different spheres, as a lawyer, as a businessman, or as a scholar, as a philosopher, as a scientist, as an economist... There are so many demands. It doesn't matter. But you should see whether you are successful. And what is the standard of success? The standard of success is whether you have pleased God. You read this. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ...
Prabhupāda: That is religion. That should be developed, that "Whether by my profession, by my business, by my talent, by my capacities..." There are different categories. "Whether I have pleased God?" Then it is successful. If you have pleased God by your legal profession—you are in a different dress—it doesn't matter. You are as good as they are whole time only serving God. Because their business is also to please God. Similarly, if you have pleased God, then even by practicing your law, you are as good as the saintly person. That should be the aim, "Whether I have pleased God with my professional duty or occupational duty?" That is the standard. Let people take up this. We don't say that "You change your position. You become a sannyāsī or you give up your profession and become bald-headed." No, we don't say that. (laughs) We are by nature. (laughter) So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you remain in your position, but see whether by your discharge of duties you have pleased God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I came to western country with no hope. I knew that my Godbrother, Bon Mahārāja, came, he failed. Then Gosvāmī Mahārāja was there, so many swamis and yogis came here, nobody could turn them. So I came here just with a purpose, "Let me try." But I was not hopeful at all. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is now successful.
Devotee (1): A great success.
Prabhupāda: And therefore let us try. And success, no success, depend on Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): Already I have noticed a difference with the new temple which has opened in Melbourne, with the group of adults that are coming around to become interested now because we have a permanent place here.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, we have got very nice house. (Prabhupāda gets out of car and is greeted by devotees) Thank you. (end)
Prabhupāda: Because Indian people, being subjugated for at least one thousand years, they have lost their original culture. And, being poverty-stricken, they are simply after money, by hook and crook. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayā apahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Persons who have lost their consciousness on account of being too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I thought that America, they have enjoyed enough of this material happiness, money and women, and they are now becoming disappointed. So they are at least on the platform of renunciation. They don't want any more like their fathers and grandfathers. Of course, they are not guided. Therefore I preferred to go there to guide them. So almost fifty percent of my devotees are, they are collected from these disappointed persons, young men. They are going astray. So they appreciate that I have saved them. Therefore they are after me, this younger generation, and they are helping me in broadcasting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So I think my attempt was successful.
Interviewer: These Oriental philosophies generally and in particular the Kṛṣṇa consciousness has found a lot of devotees in the western civilization. What is the main reason for this?
Prabhupāda: Relevance mean you are spirit soul. You are not this body. This thing first you have to understand. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is India's philosophy, that "I am spirit soul." And if you realize brahmāsmi, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na... (BG 18.54). As soon as you realize that you are not this material body, you are spirit soul, then immediately you become jolly, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any hankering for things which he does not possess, no more any lamenting which he has lost. Take, for example, that we have lost our portion of country as Pakistan and fighting since... This was a plan by the British government that divide them in such a way. They will perpetually fight. They will never be happy. This was their plan. That has been successful. But we are lamenting. Both... Pakistan is lamenting or not, I do not know, but Hindustan is lamenting. Gandhi was against this partition. But Jawaharlal Nehru, just to become prime minister, immediately divided.
So these things are going on. So lamenting, we have lost our... But if you take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously, you can make the whole world Hindustan.
Interviewer: Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Guest (2): Could be very interesting, you know? I wouldn't mind going. But right now I can't...
Prabhupāda: Try to understand the philosophy. Your life will be successful. Yes.
Guest (2): Um hm. I've heard a lot about it. I've read in the books too. Some of those books I have.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Guest (1): I'm just fascinated. My business is catamaran. I own one catamaran business, yes.
Bali-mardana: Boats.
Prabhupāda: Boats.
Guest (1): Yeah. Take tourists. That's my business.
Guest (2): You know, we are pretty well the first people to see you really, you know. We've all seen you in the books.
Prabhupāda: Thank you.
Yogi Bhajan: No, I definitely agree that you must be successful in that mission now. And you have practically and honestly taught what you believed in. My idea...
Prabhupāda: No, no. "I honestly believe." Why don't you honestly believe?
Yogi Bhajan: I believe that you honestly believe...
Prabhupāda: But you also try.
Yogi Bhajan: That's what I am saying. This is the time...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you accept this Bhagavad-gītā as the standard knowledge and preach it.
Yogi Bhajan: I read it, I preach it, I understand it. That's in my concept.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. That is wanted.
Yogi Bhajan: What I am trying to reach is that this concept which you honestly believe as individual must be shared.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I, again you take... Why "I honestly believe"? Why you honestly do not believe?
Paramahaṁsa: So by joining this movement we come to the platform where we can take birth in India in a nice brāhmaṇa family?
Prabhupāda: No, you can go directly also, if you want to finish your business. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). This is a consideration, who, one who fails in executing. But if you become successful, then you go directly where Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there in some universe. So those who are completely liberated, they go to that universe. Just like when Kṛṣṇa comes here, in each and every universe there is a Vṛndāvana. So in that Vṛndāvana one takes birth. Then goes to original Vṛndāvana. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: Those who are not able to maintain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, then they may have to go to India next lifetime.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.
Prabhupāda: Why these devotee, they have given up intoxication? Apart from other items, the government, especially in U.S.A., they are spending millions of dollars to stop this intoxication, L.S.D. So why they have failed? And why Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has become successful? What is the psychology?
Siddha-svarūpa: It seems that these people don't know how to be simple.
Prabhupāda: Well, they no spiritual information. That is the... Therefore the first education is to understand what is spirit. Then spiritual knowledge is... They do not know what is spirit. (break) ...imāni bhūtāni bhavanti. That is spirit, the original source of everything. This body, original source is the spirit. As soon as the spirit is not there, the body will not grow. They are seeing actually. Therefore the original source is the spirit. Why the dead child does not grow? Or dead young man does not grow? They have not studied still, what is the cause? If it is chemical, then inject some chemical, if you know it, and make it grow. Is there any... Why they cannot do it? Why do they say it is chemical? Chemical you have got in your possession. So inject the dead child and it will grow, then it is correct. And where is that? Simply bogus propaganda. And we have to accept it? Either they must say that "Yes, it is chemical, but we did not find that chemical."
Prabhupāda: Our endeavor is just to become a dog of a Vaiṣṇava, not to become an animal like lion. We remain a dog, but of a Vaiṣṇava. And we refuse to become a big animal like lion. This is our philosophy. Another song is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's, janmaobi jadi icchā to hara, kīṭa-janma hau jaha das bhakta tuṅhara: "I do not know what is my next life. That depends on Your consideration. But if you think that I must take another birth or another many births, it doesn't matter. Only I request You that You make me an insignificant ant in the house of a devotee." Kīṭa-janma hau jaha das tuṅhara. This is Vaiṣṇava aspiration, that If become an ant under the protection of a Vaiṣṇava, that is also successful. And I don't want to become a Brahmā who is not a devotee." So this Vaiṣṇava philosophy is very accurate. Therefore this life of a Vaiṣṇava begins with surrender, not the challenge. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is Vaiṣṇava. Christ also said that "Kingdom of God is for the humble and meek." Is it not? He never said it is for the lion and elephant. The material disease means we have challenged Kṛṣṇa, God, "Oh, what is God? We can live independently." And that is material scientist. They are trying to prove, "There is no God. We can create everything in the laboratory." And that is their foolishness.
Indian guest: Yeah, there are many, many atheist. I know that.
Prabhupāda: Their whole propaganda is atheism. Therefore we are not very favorably disposed, the so-called scientists. Their whole propaganda is how to prove there is no God. That is their only aim. I mean, people say that: Oh, now nobody is going to talk of God. Talk of science." They say like that. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Sattva-guṇa, goodness. In that platform one can understand very quickly. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is little successful because we are trying to bring the students on the platform of goodness. Therefore it is becoming little successful. If you keep them in the platform of ignorance and passion, then it will be difficult.
Dharmādhyakṣa:
- naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu
- nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā
- bhagavaty uttama-śloke
- bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī
- (SB 1.2.18)
Translation: By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.
Purport: Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.
Prabhupāda: Now you make a best college. Yes. Vedic Theological College, affiliated to the California University. Then it will be successful.
Rādhā-vallabha: People are always anxious to see what we are going to do next.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rādhā-vallabha: Even in Rādhā-Ramaṇa temple they were asking when is our Vṛndāvana temple going to be opened.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)
Rādhā-vallabha: ...police are also becoming very favorable. Even when they arrest us, actually they want to hear Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Prabhupāda laughs) When they arrest us, while they are writing the tickets, we read to them out of the books.
Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was child, His mother's friend would tease Him so that He may cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He will stop. To see that by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa He is pacified to see this fun, they would tease Him first of all, and He would cry, and then they will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will... (break)
Prabhupāda: There is good hope.
Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes. Good book distribution here too.
Prabhupāda: That is the most successful. Wherever book distribution is going on nicely, that is successful, because people are in gross ignorance. They are taking this temporary life as everything. Very horrible condition. We are trying to explain what is the actual life.
Satsvarūpa: Here in Denver they have to compete with many bogus groups. This is the world headquarters of Guru Mahārājaji and many other... They like to come here, the mountains. So they're always making our propaganda against them.
Prabhupāda: So make propaganda against them vigorously. We have got sound footing. What these nonsense have? Tell them all nonsense, bogus. This rascal Guru Mahārājaji is God, and the other rascals are accepting him God? This rascaldom is going on in such civilized city? He is God?
Satsvarūpa: Well, Kuruśreṣṭha, the president, says that the local people are very much disgusted with him. They don't like him.
Devotee (4): Kṛṣṇa's mercy on us.
Yadubara: But your business was successful...
Prabhupāda: I was thinking of becoming Birla, but I am now more than Birla. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Brahmānanda: Birla gives you money now.
Prabhupāda: Not only that, how many branches Birla has? It is an example, yes.
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a devotee gets sick, should he go and take medicine?
Prabhupāda: Better not to take.
Devotee (4): Just depend on Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good. What is this?
Kuruśreṣṭha: Rosehips. (Horse hips(?) Forceps(?))
Yadubara: You said the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we should take care of disease if it comes. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was also saying fire and so on.
Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness.
Brahmānanda: For the moon? 25 billion dollars.
Prabhupāda: So again I am trying to go another planet. Where is the guarantee that it will be successful?
Brahmānanda: On the contrary, if they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being. Again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.
Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...English?
Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.
Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mayor: Well, we'd like to cooperate and we certainly need a different approach I think because we're not being successful now in trying to...
Prabhupāda: No, this way will never be successful. It will degrade more and more. So our process is very simple. That is the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's contribution, that we chant... Where is that letter? Professor Judah's? Just read that.
Brahmānanda: "I feel certain my book will help people both to understand the teachings of Kṛṣṇa the of His descent as Caitanya and to realize how Kṛṣṇa consciousness has transformed lives from drug-addicted hippies to loving servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity."
Prabhupāda: This is his study. He has written a book. So we can stop this, provided we are given the facility to work on.
Mayor: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I was thinking. Just in front there is a very nice house, big house. You have knowledge about this house?
Prabhupāda: But I have no money. So if the authorities give me a place, and for feeding them necessary foodstuff, then I am sure it will be successful. These two things I want. I don't want any charges for my mantra, no. My mantra is open, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and there is no charge for it. And I have no necessity. I require a little clothing and two capatis. That's all. Anyone can bring. I thought Chicago is one of the important cities of your country. And when I first came, I saw this is vacant. So I thought if this house can be utilized in the beginning and we invite anyone, especially young men, come here, live with us at least for one week and associate with this chanting, dancing, and we give nice prasādam. There is no difficulty. We can attempt. And if the authorities give us this facility at least for one year then we shall talk of permanent. They can see the result.
Mayor: Would you use the facility, then, as sort of a center for all over the United States?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We invite. As soon as they have got a leisure hour, let them come and live with us for one week and see the result. They can remain forever. It doesn't matter. But for experimental sake they can come, live with us and associate with us. It is not difficult. And we invite everyone. We have no such discrimination that black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, no. Anyone. It is universal. Because we consider every living entity is part and parcel of God. That is a fact. We are teeny gods, part and parcel. The same quality we have got—in minute quantity. Quality is the same, quantity is less. So God is good, so we are also good. But we have become bad under circumstances. Just like under infection, one becomes diseased. So if we cure that infection, again he becomes good. So it is the curing process. It is not an external artificial thing, imposed upon somebody, no. His goodness is there. Just like generally a man is healthy, but by infecting some disease he becomes diseased. So this material way of life is a kind of infection. So we have to cure that. And this is our process. And it has become successful. So therefore this problem of your country... I was this morning also lecturing that "You take up this movement very seriously and save your country." And if you save America, means you save the whole world because others are following America. So you can do it very easily. That is my appeal to the authorities of the American administration. But I do not want anything. For your countrymen, for your misguided youthful generation, you have to do it. That is my request. Otherwise there is no other way.
Prabhupāda: No, social reform will automatically come. The first-class reform, the brāhmaṇas, if their advice is taken, then the other classes the kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdras, they become automatically.
Mayor: We're aware that a religious approach is more successful and our mental health society here is funding the Reverend Perry who is a black ordained, I think, a Baptist protestant minister, formerly a drug addict. And he's been working out with, especially with the blacks who have drug addiction and he achieves much more success than other agencies.
Prabhupāda: Which process? Drug addiction has been helped by somebody?
Brahmānanda: No, the mayor's saying that the administration is not against supporting religious organizations.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Viṣṇujana: ...park areas where a lot of young people go for their summertime. And we'll be putting on our program right there in the park. We'll be chanting with our simple instruments. We'll want to serve some simple vegetarian, like a drink and some fruit, and discuss this philosophy amongst young people. We find that very successful all over the colleges in the country. And we think that around the Great Lakes here it will be very successful.
Prabhupāda: Now, we want this house just to keep them for sometimes with our association. That is temporary, for one hour or two hours, but I wish they should come and live with us for some time. Then it will be effective, more effective. That is... Therefore I wanted a house like this.
Mayor: Well, I think I probably should be getting on. Well, thank you very much for taking the time to talk to me this morning.
Prabhupāda: And I also thank you for your kindly coming here, taking...
Mayor: It's an honor to meet you.
Prabhupāda: So you can keep his card. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break)
Śrī Govinda: ...to your wife.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. Sat's men are hand-picked. It takes a very special devotee to be able to speak with these professors intelligently.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Jayatīrtha: At the library convention in San Francisco we had that booth there. So I went to see them and they appeared very professional with their suits and their wigs.
Brahmānanda: Successful?
Jayatīrtha: Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: It is not difficult, very simple task. To ask them "Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and take sumptuously prasādam, go home"—where is the difficulty? And they are coming; we are doing that. But we are doing—because we have no money—we are doing on a small scale. But if the government gives us facility we can expand this scale. That's all. We are collecting money... Of course we are doing our business by selling these books. We have got many books. And we are inviting men; they are coming, and gradually increasing. There is no dearth of men or devotees. But the government is faced with these difficulties, "Crime, why and what to do?" So we are suggesting this: because they are unclean in their heart, therefore there is crime and take this process, it will be successful. This is our... They are faced with the problem, "Why crime and what to do?" And we are giving the answer. So you take advantage of it. Why? We are saying, "Because they are godless." And what to do? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam. Now, if you like, you can take. Otherwise, we are doing our own business. Just like a poor medical man. He is also giving medicine. But if he is given facility, he can open a big hospital. So that is our proposition. We are already doing that business. But if we get facility from the authorities then we can open a big place, a big hospital. And the problem is already big. Otherwise, why they are saying, "What to do?"
Mrs. Wax: Would you comment on the current political situation in India, what's happening right now?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that will happen everywhere because there is no first-class man.
Mrs. Wax: So it doesn't matter if Nārāyaṇa is successful?
Prabhupāda: No.
Mrs. Wax: None of them are first-class people is what you're saying.
Prabhupāda: They are politician. That also... All of them are fourth-class men. The fighting is between two section of fourth-class men. They do not know what is first-class man. Although the Bhagavad-gītā is there, they do not know, neither do they care. Just like I was telling. When we propose that "No illicit sex, no meat eating," they laugh, "Hah! What is that?" But when they are put into trouble they say, "What to do?" When there is crime they say, "What to do?" They do not know how to tackle the situation because they are all third-class, fourth-class men. They do not know. They become disappointed.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if they read. Even if they touch. That is the difference between this book and ordinary book. Even they touch and they read one line and says, "Oh, it is very nice," he makes a step forward. If he simply says this word, "Oh, it is very nice," that is sufficient to bring him. Therefore I am trying to push. He has paid some money. He will then say, "What these nonsense have written. Let me see." (laughter) And if he sees and says, "Oh, it is very nice," then the beginning is immediately. Therefore we are trying to push. At least let him say, "It is very nice." The Kartikeya's mother, the practical experience... The Kartikeya, when he used to go to see his mother, the mother was going to dance, ball dance, and she would not speak: "All right, sit down. I am coming." She used to go out. The same mother gradually, in the association of her son, became Kṛṣṇa conscious. So at the time of death she asked Kartikeya, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and she died immediately. This is the effect. So anta-kāle, she remembered Kṛṣṇa, so her life was successful. She inquired like this, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And immediately died. So she got the benefit of her son's Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can ask Kartikeya also. She said that.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, he told me that story.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Man is regulated to become a first-class man, and woman is regulated to become very chaste and faithful wife.
Woman reporter: There is one more question.
Prabhupāda: Then the life will be very successful. And marriage, compulsory. Marriage, compulsory.
Woman reporter: Everyone should marry?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Every woman, at least, should be married. Therefore, according to Vedic conception, polygamy is allowed.
Woman reporter: Is allowed?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because every woman must be married. But every man may not be married. Therefore man has to accept more than one wife.
Prabhupāda: Well, according to Vedic conception woman is never offered leadership. But experience has shown that woman's leadership has not been successful.
Woman reporter: Do you think Mrs. Gandhi's leadership has not been successful?
Prabhupāda: Well, there is already trouble. There are many big, big men, they do not agree with her and she has taken emergency steps. So on the whole, the country is in trouble.
Woman reporter: What about Mrs. Meir, president of Israel?
Prabhupāda: I do not say of any particular woman, but according to Vedic civilization, we have never seen in the history that woman has become a leader.
Woman reporter: Women have been leaders.
Prabhupāda: They were not selected. The leader—formerly it was monarchy—the monarchs were selected by the advisory board of the first-class men. So they never selected any woman to become the leader of the society.
Woman reporter: What about women who are elected by the people?
Harikeśa: The men have become the servants of the women.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Harikeśa: Women's liberation has become successful because man is now the servant of woman.
Prabhupāda: It is not successful. That I was pointing out. It has caused the disaster because the whole women become dependent on the welfare gift of the government, and the government has to raise tax heavily for this purpose. The tax is given by the general public, but it is going for one individual person, and I have heard that government is embarrassed. They are now making enquiry about the welfare gifts.
Nitāi: There's many scandals there.
Prabhupāda: There are now so many scandals. So these are the problems. Why? The man leaves the woman uncared for.
Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven't, that's all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right?
Jayatīrtha: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Anything objectionable?
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that in our society the women shouldn't cook privately for their husbands.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Satsvarūpa: You were saying that everyone should take the Deity's prasādam. But it sounds like the women are being trained to cook, so...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. No, no. The thing is that Deity or at home, she must be very first-class cook. That is wanted. That is according to convenience. If possible, they can take prasādam in the temple. If not possible, they must cook. But she must be first-class cook. That is wanted, either in the temple or outside. In India still, 80%, 90%, they are very happy in their family life, never mind one is poor or rich, because the wife knows these three things: to remain chaste and faithful to the husband, and she knows how to cook nicely. (pause) And women and men should live separately. That is also essential.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of our Godbrothers asked why the inductive knowledge is so successful, especially to scientists?
Prabhupāda: Inductive knowledge always unsuccessful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But science finds out these laws and so many things. So to some extent it's working.
Prabhupāda: No, they can extend... Just like inductive knowledge is like this: you study man. You see, first man dies, second man dies, third man dies. In this way, you can go to hundred or thousand man. But I can say that "You might not have seen that man who does not die." I can challenge that. You cannot say... Simply by studying hundred thousand man, you cannot say that all men die. I can challenge that "You have not seen the..., beyond that. So how you can conclude like that?" There may be somebody. As you say, "May be," we can say, "may be somebody who does not die." (laughter) What is the answer?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That argument is different though from the way the science does. For example, they work so hard...
Prabhupāda: The science does... They conclude something, and next man changes. So that is your science. So how you can make a conclusion?
Devotee: I was reading. There's a group called A.A., Alcoholic Anonymous, and they have a treatment for curing this disease. And it's the only one that's been successful. And one of the initial steps in achieving success in this method of theirs is that one agrees to the possibility of an ultimate reality or God. And because of that, they've had success in curing alcoholism.
Prabhupāda: What is that process?
Devotee: Well, it's a self-analysis. It doesn't go very far, but at least they accept that God exists and...
Prabhupāda: Self-analysis, that requires intelligence. But our process is, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." There is no difficulty. So it is better than A.A.
Devotee: Yes, much better. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So why should you bother about that process? You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is that all right?
Devotee: That's fine. (end)
Prof. Hopkins: So one who... You would see his effort to transcend, I suppose you would call it...
Prabhupāda: That effort was for life after life. Then when his effort will be successful he will realize Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19).
Prof. Hopkins: So his problem was the effort to attempt to do this on his own without going through...
Prabhupāda: The guru.
Prof. Hopkins: The guru.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it will take time. Just like a man searching after the right path but he does not care to ask anybody, he is loitering in the forest.
Prof. Hopkins: You... I'm sure you're familiar with his essays on the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Hopkins: Which I think are generally quite good, his essays on the Gītā themselves. Are there places there that you would strongly disagree with in his, what he says?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are publicly suiciding, and others are silently suiciding. The suiciding policy is going on. Somebody manifests; somebody does not manifest. That's all. If the human life is wasted for sense gratification, that is suicidal. Because you got the opportunity of enlightenment and you live like dogs and cats, this is suicide. (break) This, what is called, hydrogen bomb manufacturer, he is thinking that he is successful in his life by discovering this hydrogen bomb. but he does not know how to save him from death. So it is suicidal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are simply expert at accelerating death.
Prabhupāda: Whatever he has done, so he could not save him. He cannot save him from death. So what is the use of this scientific knowledge? If the dog is also going to die and he is also going to die, so where is the difference of his scientific knowledge?
Paramahaṁsa: Coincidentally, the original purpose of the hydrogen bomb was to prevent death, to end the Second World War as soon as possible.
Prabhupāda: How they can prevent? That he does not know, how to prevent. He can accelerate. That's all. (break) ...puts before us, "Here is your problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Solve it." Where is that scientist? They avoid the real problem and take some childish problem. (break) ...not any hidden problem. It is the open problem. Kṛṣṇa puts it: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi
Prabhupāda: No.
Bahulāśva: They have never done that successfully.
Prabhupāda: And even they are successful, what is credit? So many living entities are coming every minute, and if after thousand years, they can create one ant, so what is the credit? (laughter)
Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, now the impersonalists, they will accept that there's something in that body that's different than matter, but they won't admit that that's a person. They say that it's just some type of energy force, or they call it consciousness.
Prabhupāda: But we haven't got to hear from them. You take lesson from Kṛṣṇa.
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: Are they better situated than the person who doesn't accept it at all?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't talk nonsense. Whomever you meet, if you want to become a leader and talk something, talk Kṛṣṇa-kathā, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'..., what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then satisfy your ambition to become a talker. Otherwise, you rascal, remain a talker only. You talk only; you get nothing. If you want to utilize your talking power, then talk what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Then your life will be successful. And if you talk foolishly, then you will be revealed as a rascal. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāsate: "A rascal fool is so long beautiful as long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, then he is revealed that he is a rascal." So don't talk this. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkha. You can dress yourself, very nice gentleman. People will res...But as soon as you talk nonsense—"Oh, here is a rascal," that's all. That is going on. They are... In the name of scientist, philosopher, they are talking nonsense and exposing themselves that they are all rascals. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...someone like Meher Baba who never spoke?
Prabhupāda: That is another art of not being exposed. (laughter) Because as soon as he speaks he becomes rascal. So maunebaba... There is no enemy. There is in Bengali, bhovara satru nai: "If you are dumb, then nobody is your enemy." So they become bhovara means dumb; I don't speak. That means I don't create many enemies, Bhova that's all.
Prabhupāda: You want me to speak? I can speak. Shall I speak? Yesterday in San Diego one press representative met me. So I told that America is advanced in material civilization, all comforts of bodily concept of life. But why the American young men are becoming hippies and crazy. Yesterday, I saw, some of the girls came almost naked. So why they are dissatisfied in spite of so much material advancement? They have got enough food, enough shelter, enough clothing, enough cars and everything. There is no scarcity. Why they are disappointed? Can you answer, why they are disappointed? It means they requires spiritual fulfillment of desire. That is the nature. When in the primitive stage of life, a man is concerned about the bodily comforts. And when one is advanced or satisfied—not satisfied; advanced—in our bodily concept of life, the next question is about spiritual life. So America is in that point, specially. So unless you fulfill their spiritual needs, they will remain in such disturbing condition. So I compared it just like there are many zeros: one zero, two zero, three zero, or hundreds and millions of zero. All these zeros together—the value is zero. But if there is one, then one and zero, it makes 10. The ten times of one value increases. Another zero, it is hundred. Another zero, it is thousand. Similarly, this material advancement of America, if it is added with God consciousness, then the value will increase. Otherwise, it will remain zero. You may advance materially as far as possible. but if you don't take God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the value of all this material advancement is equal to zero. Nobody will be satisfied. So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement should be taken very seriously. It is the finishing touch of American advancement of material comforts. Then people will be very happy, and America is already leader of the world. They will be first-class leader. The world will be benefited, and you will be benefited. And my endeavor will be also successful.
Prabhupāda: Well, we are not very much concerned with political situation. But our proposition is—either political, social, economical or philosophical, anything—without Kṛṣṇa, it is all zero. So far Mrs. Gandhi is concerned, she is inclined to some spiritual understanding. So actually if she becomes very advanced spiritually, then this emergency situation will improve. Otherwise... and it is the public opinion against democracy. So democracy is not very much beneficial anywhere and everywhere. In your country also, you voted Mr. Nixon, democracy, but you were not satisfied with him. That means democracy, ordinary men they select somebody and again they try to bring him down. Why? When he was selected, it means it was a mistake. So according to Vedic civilization, there was no such thing as democracy. It was monarchy, but the monarchy means the king was very highly spiritually advanced. The king was called rājarṣi, means king, at the same time, saintly person. We have got another example in our country-Gandhi. When he was political leader, he was practically dictator, but because he was a man of very high moral character, people took him, accepted him as the dictator. So dictatorship is good, provided the dictator is highly qualified spiritually. That is the Vedic verdict. The battle of Kurukṣetra was there because Lord Kṛṣṇa wanted rājarṣi, Yudhiṣṭhira, should be on the head. So the king is supposed to be the representative of God. So he must be a godly person. Then it will be successful.
Prabhupāda: Six hundred million, and out of that sixty-thousand joined, and it became successful. Sixty thousand joined by statistics. Actually worker, I don't think more than ten thousand people. Exactly like Indian village. Here there is no business. They simply reside.
Brahmānanda: Yes. (break) (outside:)
Satsvarūpa: ...it's over there somewhere. He's one of the world's richest men, H. L. Hunt. He's a Dallas oil millionaire. Some devotees tried to approach him, but at his house he has servants and... At least the servant took a Bhagavad-gītā. They couldn't see the man himself.
Dayananda: He died. A few months ago. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...otogrika? (?) Similar like that. (break) ...dollars?
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Lalitā: You take this benefit. (Bengali) ...spiritually conscious, everything will be... (Bengali) But if it is the nasty things, the nasty and...
Prabhupāda: Politically it will be failure, but spiritually it will be successful.
Lalitā: (Bengali) She is eager to meet him, so he should talk high level... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: ...because I am missionary, (Bengali) permanent resident American... (Bengali) ...our visa, passport... (Bengali) ...certain percentage... (Bengali) ...so "You will have to wait for six years." (Bengali)
Lalitā: Mahārāja, we have to note down the point, "missionary movement," and what will be the subject. You have to submit one letter... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...Indira's janma?
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) This is meant for the executive head of the state. It is meant for. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, it is stated,
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāhur
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣayo. It is meant for the rājarṣis. So Indira is in the position of rāja. If she becomes a ṛṣi, then it will be successful. Then it will be successful. (Bengali) ...that "You have got the position of royalty. You become a saintly lady. Then your scheme will be all successful." That is required. That I can help, how to make her a ṛṣi.
Lalitā: No, she is full of humility... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Then not only the people of India will be benefited but also the whole world will be benefited. And you have got that sampatti, Bhagavad-gītā guidance. I will not manufacture anything. That is not my business, concoction thing, hodgepodge, without any knowledge, without any experience. We are not that type of... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: And kṛṣṇa bhajanate nāhi jāti-kulādi vicāra. These are all Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... What is that? In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (Bengali) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa and follow Him. Then you are successful.
Lalitā: And I will tell her.
Prabhupāda: Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). He says, "Kaunteya, take it for granted that My devotee will never be vanquished." Then you have to disbelieve all these words or you have to believe these words. There are two things. If you believe, then you are successful. If you don't believe... (Bengali)
Lalitā: ...to cooperate with you to establish a good life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually my intention. Otherwise I have cancelled a very big, big... (Bengali)
Lalitā: (Bengali) ...immediately. She is eager to meet you.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not dependent on him. I can cancel, accept anything. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) So I shall personally teach Bhagavad-gītā. Her and her most confidential associates or who is governing. That I can do. (Bengali) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). I wanted a rājarṣi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rājarṣi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His movement became very successful when Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Aśoka, Mahārāja Aśoka took it. It requires. And Kṛṣṇa says, rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Lalitā: (Bengali) She is very cunning.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) She is spiritually inclined. She goes to so many spiritual men, but they cannot give her guidance. That means she has some inclination. That I can understand. Just like these for..., American boys, they are after spiritual enlightenment and all the swamis and yogis who went there simply exploited them because they have no knowledge, neither they are prepared to take knowledge from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. That is their defect. That is their defect.
Lalitā: They have become Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: "Why?"—that you are asking. They think it is happiness. That is called māyā. It is not happiness; still, if somebody is thinking happiness, that is called māyā.
Dhanañjaya: But even if they cross the line successfully, they'll only suffer misery on the other side too.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Brahmānanda: Yes. This is another point.
Dhanañjaya: They'll only suffer another kind of misery.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.
Dhanañjaya: Capitalist misery.
Brahmānanda: Some boys, they escaped from one country, I think Rumania. And they came to our temple. They had heard about our movement, so they came to our temple. They stayed for a little while, but then they were wanting to leave. So they left, and immediately they were apprehended by the authorities in... I think it was in Sweden. And now they are put into camps, they cannot leave, they have to be processed, and practically they are again in jail. They have no freedom. They cannot get a job. They have no passport. It will take them years to get all the papers in order. They have to be investigated to see that they are not spies. So again they are still in the miserable condition.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So, your instructions in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam can stop their lust? It can stop... By hearing from Vedic authorities, their lust can be dissolved? Or do they have to just simply be frustrated in their attempts to enjoy sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: They are being frustrated. Who is successful in the material world? Have you got any instance that he is successful? (pause) Then?
Vāsughoṣa: In every field someone is miserable. Just in America there was one lady, very famous etiquette expert, Amy Vanderbilt. So she jumped out of her window. She was sixty-nine years old.
Prabhupāda: There are many. I saw in Detroit, I think. The bridge is covered?
Brahmānanda: San Francisco. The Golden Gate Bridge they have put...
Prabhupāda: Not Golden Gate. That San Diego, I think. We crossed one bridge to go to the...
Brahmānanda: Oh, yes, San Diego also. They have these fences so when people jump off they are caught by the fences. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And I think in Berkeley? The tower?
Prabhupāda: Transcendental platform. And from transcendental platform, we come to the spiritual platform. These are the stages. So in this age, because people are so fallen and in the śāstra a special recommendation that give the people directly spiritual platform... That direct spiritual platform is chanting of this holy name of God, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So if we cultivate this practice on the spiritual platform, then immediately we realize our spiritual identity, and God, and it becomes very quickly successful.
Faill: So in a sense, what a lot of people are saying today is that we must look inwards rather than outwards into the world of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Inward means that you are spirit soul; you are not this body. But if you keep your bodily concept of life, then where is inward? It is outward only.
Faill: It's just another way of looking out.
Prabhupāda: Gandhi started his movement here. He was failure. But in India it is supposed to be successful. But at the present moment, after independence, Indians are very horribly situated.
Indian man: Very horribly situated.
Prabhupāda: They have no food even.
Indian man: Yeah. Is it because of the people?
Prabhupāda: May be. What is the cause, I do not wish to discuss. But you are better off here. I see.
Indian man: I was going to India for some knowledge, you see? You know, to the āśramas there. And I couldn't go, you see.
Prabhupāda: How did you know that you'll get some knowledge there?
Indian man: Well, I read a few books of the Divine Life Society, you know. And I wanted to go to Hrishikesh, you know.
Prabhupāda: So what is that Divine Life Society? I want to know from you. What is that divinity? Whether it is nonsense or divinity?
Prabhupāda: No. You should be diplomatic. You should give positive information of our philosophy. Where need be, absolutely necessary, you can criticize others. (break) ...preaching is successful.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only because you've sent us here. Otherwise we would have never come to this place in a million years. I think in America the devotees think that Africa is simply a bunch of jungles. No one wants to come here to preach.
Prabhupāda: (break)...very broad. (break) ...ask him about swimming, why they cannot swim all through like the fish. They are defeated.
Indian man: They can't swim like the fish.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are defeated.
Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are trying to become happy by material adjustment. This will never be successful. So what is their answer?
Harikeśa: They might point out how successful they have been in the past.
Prabhupāda: What successful?
Harikeśa: Now we have these big, beautiful houses. If it's too hot we air-condition it.
Prabhupāda: You have to be... You will be kicked out from the house. You will not be allowed to stay here. What is this success? You will be kicked out. What is your success? You have constructed very nice house. Very good. All credit to you. But I shall kick you out. What you will do? Where is your success? Hm? It is waste of time. That is sane man's intelligence. "If I am going to be kicked out, why shall I spoil my energy in this way?" This is intelligence. But they have no intelligence even.
Harikeśa: But that's just a fatalistic attitude.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious government means Vedic government.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have histories that for millions of years such governments were working successfully. Now, for a few thousand years, they squabble, this type of government, that type of government.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, first of all, the government is cheating. He is giving me paper in the name of money, and forcing me to accept it.
Harikeśa: That seems to be the root cause of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Government is taking labor from you. You ask, "If you pay me three hundred dollars, then I shall work." "All right, I shall give you. Work." Then what is that three hundred? I print and pay you, and you rascal, you accept it, three hundred dollars. What is that three hundred dollars for government? Printing press. And you are so rascal, "Yes, I have got now three hundred dollars." This is going on. This is artificial inflation. Why there is inflation? Now you have got three hundred dollars without any hard labor. And when you go to purchase—I haven't got three hundred dollars; you have got—"All right, I shall pay this price." So price is increased because the seller will see: "Who pays me large price?" So you have got unnecessary money. You offer him large price. So I am poor man; I could not purchase. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you make experiment; you will find it all right. So we save time. (break) ...no experiment. (break) ...experiment has become successful? Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they've cured certain diseases by experimentation.
Prabhupāda: That is success? You stop disease. What is this, "cure disease"? Malaria, if it is not here, it is somewhere there. And if I am not suffering from malaria, I am suffering from syphilis. So what is this cure, experiment? Disease must be there. So you stop it. Then it is success.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So it is not possible to stop disease.
Prabhupāda: No. How it is possible?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it worthwhile to try to prolong life?
Prabhupāda: It is also condemned. Prolonged life... Suppose you live hundred years and a tree lives five thousand years, ten thousand years. Then what is the use of prolonging life, life like this? Is that very good life?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: No, then who is the scientist who is producing so many lives? You have not met him, but actually we see what you are trying to become successful in future, it is already there. Now, who is that big scientist? Why don't you find him out? Why don't you call him and give him Nobel Prize? Why you are taking? You are rascal. What is their answer? Already things are coming. There are so many lives, so that you are killing lives, being afraid of overpopulation. So he is creating so many lives that you think of it as overpopulation, overproduction. So what is your credit if you suppose in future you create one life? What credit you are going to give him? (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...experimentation, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Science is based on experimentation. They will argue, "So how can we experiment with the theories that you are putting forward?"
Prabhupāda: Our theory or your theory?
Prabhupāda: ...tri-dhātuke sva-dhiḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma īḍya-dhīḥ, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij janeṣu abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). South Africa... (Hindi) ...successful.
Dr. Patel: South Africa, majority of them are rooting Holland. Not many other.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there are all kinds of Europeans.
Dr. Patel: No, but majority of them are Hollanders. That is why this, they were against the Britishers.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So in South Africa we had very successful programs.
Dr. Patel: You are going to have a temple there?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we have already there.
Dr. Patel: Did you go to East Africa also?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Nairobi.
Dr. Patel: Nkrumah(?) wants money from anybody who goes and sees him as if he's a god.
Prabhupāda: But where we have got money?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hitler knew it.
Dr. Patel: No. They were not able to be successful to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. He knew it, everything, but he did not like to do it. He said. He said. He was gentleman. But these people are not gentlemen. He knew it perfectly well. He said that "I can smash the whole world, but I do not use that weapon." The Germans already discovered. But out of humanity they did not use it. And all the, your American, other countries, they have stolen from German ideas.
Dr. Patel: I think, sir, German scientists ran away during the wartime to America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of them went to Russia, some of them-(aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa—to America.
Brahmānanda: The German scientists, they went to America. But the plans for these things were left in Germany and the Russians came. The Russians got the plans, the Americans got the scientists.
Dr. Patel: I see. So the Russians, I mean, scientists produced from the plan the bomb.
Brahmānanda: That's why the Americans got it first, because they had the scientists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He can surrender, and Kṛṣṇa will do everything. You have to act very sincerely under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, and then the war will be successful, as Arjuna did.
Harikeśa: So imperfect activity is a sign of lack of surrender.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...avaśya rakṣibe kṛṣṇa. Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa-pālanam. You work sincerely, devoutly, and have faith that "Kṛṣṇa will save me from all dangers." Rakṣiṣyati iti viśvāsa-pālanam. "I have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Now Kṛṣṇa will give me all protection." This faith, that is the beginning of devotional life. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Faith.
Harikeśa: So this faith, is this śraddhā or niṣṭha?
Prabhupāda: Śraddhā. Beginning, śraddhā. Then, when he is advanced, then he becomes fixed up. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is protecting me." (break) ...that here is some goddess Kali, and nobody is living here.
Prabhupāda: And so much endeavor.
Tejas: This Vijñāna Bhavan we can get, it's very nice.
Prabhupāda: So do it! Am I right or not?
Hari-śauri: Programs like that would work very successfully in the west also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is three thousand, four thousand? You get two members and it is...
Tejas: No. People will contribute. No problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it immediately.
Tejas: Should I make that for March?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why March? Immediately! Try for immediately. Every week there must be some festival. Hm. In that way you don't require a very gigantic house. We can live anywhere, but our propagation will go on. (break) So many bhavans and so many institutions, utilise them. And there will be concession, if we take for one week, two weeks. They will give concession. Sometimes they may give free also. When they understand this is nice movement. (break)
Prabhupāda: And experiment means, those who are making experiment, they do not know where is the perfect thing. The same example, that if you make experiment about understanding who is your father, it will all fail. How long you'll go on inquiring, ask any old man, "Sir, are you my father?" Or will this process be successful at any time? Without consulting your mother, if you simply go on asking all old men, "Sir, are you my father?" And if somebody falsely says, "Yes, I am your father," is that successful inquiry? This is going on.
Harikeśa: Well, it gives mental satisfaction, and that, that...
Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. Mental satisfaction. Just like a child. You can cheat him by mental satisfaction, giving him one lozenges and take from him hundred rupees note.
Harikeśa: But he's satis...
Prabhupāda: That is also mental satisfaction.
Harikeśa: But happiness is a state of mind. So the child is happy...
Prabhupāda: Such mind is imperfect. What is this satisfaction? If mind is imperfect, so mental satisfaction is never complete satisfaction. That is also another illusion. It will be changed again. Again revolution. This is going on. So in the dialectic process, try to bring this thesis, that within this body there is the real enjoyer, and try to convince them in that way. That will be great service.
| Page Title: | Successful (Conversations 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 04 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=86, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 86 |