Prabhupāda: The basis of this teaching is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. I have already published my book, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This book is not new. It is very old book, at least five thousand years old, and it is very widely read all over the world. In your country I have seen there are about more than twenty-five different editions, English. Similarly, there is in German language, in England, in Japan. Everywhere, all over the country this book is very widely known, Bhagavad-gītā. In other words, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The speaker of this book is Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the subject matter of this book is what is our relationship with God. Then, after understanding what is our relationship with God, we can work accordingly. Just like you are citizen of America, you have got a particular relationship with the state, and you are expected to work according to that relationship, and then you are good citizen, you are law-abiding citizen, and state gives your all protection, and you can improve to the highest perfectional stage. Similarly, if we know our relationship with God, whom we call Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive, and that is the perfect name of God. Unless God is all-attractive, he cannot be God. God cannot be Hindus' God or Christians' God or Jews' God or Mohammedans' God. No. God is for everyone, and He is all-attractive. He is fully opulent. He is fully in knowledge, perfect in knowledge, perfect in beauty, perfect in renunciation, perfect in fame, perfect in strength. In this way He is all attractive. So we must know our relationship with God. That is the first subject matter of this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then if we understand our relationship, we can act accordingly.
Subject matter (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the project is very great. It will have to be finished in sixty volumes like this. So about ten, twelve volumes are already finished. So I'm going on working on this. So it is a great subject matter for study. So people should take interest in it. It is not anything trifle thing. People should come to us to understand. We have got literature. We have got philosophy. Everything we have got. It is not a blind, imposing thing, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So everyone who actually wants to give some service to the society, to the humanity, they must study this philosophy and get prepared to meet anyone, scientists, philosopher, poet, talk with them, and he can give answer to all their questions. But our method is very simple. We call everyone, even to the child, "Come, sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then gradually he realizes. But if anyone wants to understand this philosophy through knowledge, through books, through philosophy, logic, we are prepared.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he was talking that on zero some great swami spoke four hours. And he was very proud that on zero one can speak throughout his whole life. Now I did not... (laughs) But if you can speak on some subject matter for four hours, how it is zero? Just see the contradiction. Gaurasundara, you were present when he was speaking? You heard? If I can speak something on a subject matter, is that subject matter zero? Zero means śūnya. Śūnya means nothing. So how you can speak on nothing? If you can speak on nothing, then nothing is no more nothing. It is something. Just see. But you are so proud. "Oh, he spoke on zero for four hours." I did not contradict because he is newcomer, but I talked on other subject. But this is the position. Suppose you can talk on zero for four hours. Then either you waste your time... Because after all it is zero. The result is zero. Just like you add one million zeros. So what is the value? Zero. So who is a fool that knowing that one million zeros makes zero, why shall I waste my time making so many zeros? So either he is a fool or if zero has so much substance to speak, then how it is zero? If zero has so much value that one can speak on it for hours and hours together, then how it is zero? So people do not understand things very properly. They're so dull.
Prabhupāda: You are particularly interested with that subject matter?
Reporter: Yes. I told Dan that was what I was interested in. I have background information on the movement, for instance, and yourself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So far the movement is concerned, it has nothing to do with the moon planetary journey, it has nothing to do. But in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the authoritative Vedic scripture which we generally follow, in that scripture there is statement that for promoting oneself to the moon planet, one has to accustom himself to the different kind of worshiping process. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Those who are worshiper of the demigods, they are promoted to different planets of the particular demigods. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ. And those who are worshiper of the pitṛs, or forefathers, they go to that planet. Similarly, one who is engaged in worshiping the Supreme Lord, he also goes to the supreme planet. These informations are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. And so far moon planet is concerned, that is within this material world. Those who are pious actors, those who are engaged in pious activities according to Vedic rituals, they can go to the moon planet. That is stated in the...
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Our process is... It is also meditation. But as you understand by meditation, that concentrating the mind upon some super subject matter, the same thing is there, but we don't try to concentrate the mind artificially. But our, this chanting process immediately attracts the mind. Our process is... Just like Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. We chant it in melodious song. So mind is attracted, and we try to hear the sound. That means my mind and my ear is compact in that thought. Therefore it is practical meditation.
Interviewer: And there is a great deal of the repetitive chanting involved then in the meditation? How much is preaching? Supposing you were going, you are gathered together to accomplish this approach to consciousness. What happens? Do you speak with your disciples?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Monitor, yes. Monitor. So He was monitor. That is the same. And He'll teach the students from grammar all Kṛṣṇa. Dhātu. Dhātu. There is subject matter. Dhātu means verb. So He will ex-plain... dhātu means, when a dhātu is taken away a man is dead, and this dhātu is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is the life. Without Kṛṣṇa a man is dead." In this way He explained. Kṛṣṇa explanation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old was He?
Prabhupāda: I may say, eight or ten years old.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that what we will try to do is have Birbhadra come with us and he will play Lord Caitanya as a boy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be nice. And he is a very intelligent boy. He'll pick up.
Prabhupāda: Let them marry and live here.
Satsvarūpa: The other question was, is the subject matter, as they're being done, is there any criticism or should it be changed? The paintings that have been finished thus far, should they be changed in some way?
Prabhupāda: Then... These paintings are first-class, these paintings.
Brahmānanda: Is that one first-class there, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No.
Satsvarūpa: What's the trouble?
Prabhupāda: The trouble is that Kṛṣṇa's body is... Why it is made so big? Why the others, inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, smaller?
Satsvarūpa: He's supposed to be up in the front. He's supposed to be in the front, and they're all behind Him. But it mustn't be done well enough.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... Do you think that is represented? Kṛṣṇa did not show His gigantic body. As He was, He lifted. Yes.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: In my suitcase. Shall I bring them?
Prabhupāda: Yes, bring. (break) Kṛṣṇa, canvassing Himself, says, Kṛṣṇa, Himself canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "Give up everything. Just surrender unto Me." How many do it? So we are canvassing on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. He personally said practically. So you don't expect that everyone will be Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is very difficult.
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult, but it is the mercy of Lord Caitanya that through this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement they are coming so soon. Otherwise, the subject matter is very difficult. (pause) So many flowers?
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (2): So we want understanding more than mere tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you may be tape... But that is my position because I have been authorized in that way, that "Anyone who preaches this confidential subject matter, he is My dear." So I have nothing to learn, what is sama-darśi. I have my position...
Guest (4): No, blind following and open-eyed following, I say it is all right. We can read the book. We can read the verses, translation, Hindi translation. But that is not understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not understanding, I understand. But I am understanding from my teacher, just like I told you, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya. There are so many stalwart teachers, practically whole Hindu community.
Guest (6): But every successive teacher has added some interpretations of the knowledge, no?
Prabhupāda: First of all let him be successor.
Prabhupāda: "Scientific Classless Society." This subject matter I wanted...
Prof. Kotovsky: Have you put into writing these three subjects somewhere?
Prabhupāda: I asked... Because I could not contact him, therefore I asked the ambassador. But unfortunately they said that "We did not receive any letter like that." So you can note down if you like.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, it is interesting to read also your text of your lectures. But it is not here? It is...? Kṛṣṇa consciousness...
Prabhupāda: No, it is Easy Journey to Other Planets. No? No, what is this? Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the Topmost Yoga System.
Prabhupāda: I have got great-grandchildren.
Mohsin Hassan: You have two sons?
Prabhupāda: I have two sons. I have three sons..., two sons, two daughters.
Mohsin Hassan: They were, I was told, associated with Gandhi. What's your relation with Mahatma Gandhi?
Prabhupāda: Gandhi, in my young age I was Nationalist, so I followed Gandhi. I was interested. Later on, when I met my spiritual master, I became disinterested with this temporary, ephemeral things. So this is permanent. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is permanent. It is very long(?) (non?) subject matter. We are simply dreaming. All these activities are just like at night we dream, but they are all false. Whatever you dream at night, they're not facts; they're false. Similarly, these are also daydreams, these activities. Daydream. They're also false. The only thing what we can actually take benefit out of it is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's a fact. It will take some time. (end)
Prabhupāda: Mind is instrument. The mind's position is accepting and rejecting. Intellect helps the mind what to reject and what to accept. And that intelligence is of the soul. That ground of intelligence is the soul. First of all bodily concept is gross life, ordinary, like animals, they do not know except the body. Higher than bodily concept of life, the exercise of the mind, mental speculation. That mental speculation is adjusted by intelligence and that intelligence belongs to the soul. Therefore soul is the ultimate and soul is the part and parcel of God. Therefore God is the supreme. So the mental speculation or the evolution of mental exercise when it comes to the summit, that is God realization. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one realizes "God is everything," that mahātmā, that great soul is very rare. That is the statement in Bhagavad-gītā. Mahātmā means whose mind is great. The mind is great. He's not thinking ordinary things. He's thinking of greater subject matter. They are called mahātmā, broader minded, broad-minded.
Reporter: So, sir, for we poor mortals it is very difficult to immediately, you see, to...
Prabhupāda: It is not a subject matter to understand immediately.
Reporter: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: It is not subject matter to understand immediately. It is a science.
Reporter: Yes, a science.
Prabhupāda: It is a science, jñāna sa vijñāna. So you cannot understand a science in five minutes. That is not possible.
Reporter: Yes. So we were trying to understand... No. We have just come to understand you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That was others you cannot understand. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, kalpanā. Māyāvādī theory is brahma nirākāra, so... (Hindi) You can imagine that God is so insignificant that you can imagine His form. This dangerous theory is going on in India. God is so insignificant that you can imagine at your whims whatever you like. Ramakrishna Mission is also preaching this, and now this big, big sannyāsī, they also preaching this. God is a subject matter for, of my imagination, He is so insignificant. You have seen the paper?
Guest (1): No. I haven't read this particular statement.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Rayananda(?), can you get that paper, Hindustan?
Guest: Quite surprising. He's quite a learned scholar.
Prabhupāda: The learned scholar, they have been described in Bhagavad-gītā, māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they have taken this view that God is impersonal, He has no form, this is āsurī. Then māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Therefore, however learned they may be, māyā takes away their knowledge. Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśr... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) The Absolute Truth, that is subjected to be imagined by me. I am a tiny soul. And if a learned sannyāsī says like that, how many thousands of people will believe in that, will be wrongly impressed? This paper will be read by thousands and millions. (Hindi) ...hodge-podge.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no higher reality than Me." Are we imaginists? Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is nothing," I mean, "as higher reality that Me." And these people are taking Him as mūrta-vigrahaḥ, kalpanā. (Hindi)
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: No. Why this word kalpanā is there? That is, that is my point. Kalpanā means something false imagination. Kalpanā is not reality, and Kṛṣṇa says that "There is no higher reality than Me." And He became the subject matter of my kalpanā. (Hindi)
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Let it become reality.
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Why this word should be used as kalpanā? I don't think the newspaper reporter can write in that way unless this word was actually spoken.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Śyāmasundara: How is Kṛṣṇa the greatest scientist?
Prabhupāda: Because He knows everything. A scientist means one who knows a subject matter thoroughly. He's scientist. Kṛṣṇa, He knows everything.
Bob: You said... I told you I teach science. You had said something about teaching, or teaching of science.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Teaching, unless you have got perfect knowledge how you can teach? That is our proposition.
Bob: Without perfect knowledge, though, you can teach what knowledge you have.
Prabhupāda: No, that is cheating. That is not teaching, that is cheating. Just like the scientists said, "There was a chunk, and the creation took place, perhaps..." What is this? Simply cheating. It is not teaching, it is cheating.
Prabhupāda: Eight volumes in the Tenth Canto. Then Eleventh Canto, Twelfth Canto. So altogether it will be sixty volumes. One book, sixty volumes. Perhaps there is none in the world, one subject matter. So that I wish to contribute to the world, with the cooperation of Dai Nippon. Yes. It will be record contribution to the world thought.
Karandhara: Already the first volume of the Third Canto and the First Volume of the Fourth Canto, they are ready to be printed. I have them in Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So now our Sanskrit editor is there, Pradyumna.
Karandhara: The work will go much faster.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And if Hayagrīva also finishes, then I can give daily one chapter.
Karandhara: Per day?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He can oversee some foreign...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has this book department. Book department and... They may move according to convenience, Bali-mardana and Karandhara. He has got also very responsibility, with this department, that department. He has to purchase small houses. So big brain (indistinct). So similarly, you also think on the books. Everyone take big responsibility. Then we have to serve this mission. The people are foolish, they have forgotten God. We are delivering them. Best service. And without God, it is all useless, zero, all this civilization. Zero. Whatever they are making advancement, it is all zero. And nonsense. But actually it is. Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena paricīyate, one has to study by the result.
Prabhupāda: But he's thinking that "I am master of the dog." A family man, he's controlled by his wife, by his children, by his servant, by everyone, but he's thinking, "I am master." President Nixon is thinking that he's master of his country, but he's controlled. At once he can be dismissed by the public, his servant. And he gets that position, placing himself that "I'll give you very good service. I shall be your first-class servant." Therefore people vote, "All right, you become president." And he's advertising, "Re-elect me. Re-elect me." That means he is servant. But he's thinking, "I am master." That is the position. Māyā. One who is controlled by māyā, he's thinking himself master, but he's servant. And a devotee, he'll never think himself, "I am master." "I am servant." That is the difference between māyā and not māyā. He at least knows that "I am never master. I am always servant." But these rascals, they think that they are master when actually they are servant. That is the difference. That is the difference. When a servant is thinking, "I am master," that is called illusion. And when a servant thinks "I am servant," that is not illusion; that is mukti. That is liberation. Because he is not controlled by a false thought. Try to think about this subject matter. A devotee is never controlled by a false thought. He knows his position. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti, liberation, means to be situated in his own constitutional position. That is called mukti, liberation.
Guest (2): No, not challenge... I'm not saying... I mean, I'm not...
Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious. Just like when you become serious of studying any subject matter, you find out some college, some institution. You cannot purchase the books and read at home and become expert engineer, expert, no. That is not the process. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is called śruti. Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system.
Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.
Prabhupāda: No. Under the British rule, from the childhood they are subjected to the propaganda. We read one book, small book, by M. Ghose. The subject matter was England's work in India. That was a compulsory reading book in the schools. And in that book, it was simply stated that "we are uncivilized, but since the Britishers have come, we are becoming civilized. "This is the subject matter of that book, "England's work in India." So everything Indian... The Jawaharlal is the typical example—everything Indian is bad. That was his philosophy. Gandhi was trying to get the Indians back to village. His philosophy was that these capitalists, they are exploiting these poor men, so all these poor men, they should go back to village and be satisfied with the village economy, not to come out. Actually that's a very nice program. But as soon as Gandhi died, or he was killed, the whole program was changed-industrialization and attract the poor man and let them live in wretched condition of city life. Gandhi's policy was to make them happy by agriculture in the village, produce their own cloth, not in the mill but in charka.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for the devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Devotee: Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ, bhavitā na ca me tasmād anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi (BG 18.69). "There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he. Nor will there ever be one more dear."
Prabhupāda: Those who are preachers.
Prabhupāda: So will you explain me in English some of the Fourth, Fourth Chapter.
Scholar: This what you got in it? What you got? Fourth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?
Scholar: About yoga has been taught by Vivasvān, and Vivasvān taught to Manu, and Manu taught to Ikṣvāku.
Prabhupāda: So only the translation is there?
Scholar: Yes. Translation and some explanations.
Prabhupāda: What is that explanation?
Scholar: He said that Vivasvān is the personification of Sūrya, the sun-god. He was the first man created by Brahmā and he learns yoga from (indistinct) himself. And then we..., Vivasvān taught yoga to Manu, who is the creator of the law, and of institutions. Just explaining only the, who is Ikṣvāku, who is Vivasvān, and so on. There's no philosophical explanation. Just word by word explanations. Because of course if you compare...
Prabhupāda: But er... He said that indirectly, in the Bhagavad-gītā, the original verse can you read? Original verse?
Prabhupāda: But unless one is realized soul how he can...
Devotee (1): No. It is impersonal interpretations.
Devotee (2): So we must encourage them to translate Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā, because they're inclined. They like... They want subject matters. So why not translate Prabhupāda's books and let the government distribute them and introduce them.
Devotee (1): Only they several times suggest to me that we donate the books because they don't have money to print their own books.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (1): They have not facilities, money, to actually print and publish and distribute. That is why they are so attracted to us because we have the books and they know we have the power to print and distribute. But they have no money, no power to do it.
Prabhupāda: No. If they want, we can do that.
Prabhupāda: So how they are thinking? He does not know, what is the use of thinking rascally? One can think properly if he knows things. If he does not know, then what is the use of thinking? The madman also thinks. What is the use of such thinking? Now our thinking begins from the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the body's changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly the proprietor of the body will change this body. At the last moment. Death means changing of the body. This is the... Now we can think. When there is proper subject matter, then you can think, how it is, how the changes. You have no proper subject matter, nobody is to guide you. What is the value of your thinking? Like dogs and cats? You do not know how to think. That is possible. How to think, that is possible in human life. So if you don't take up opportunity, how to think, then what is the use of your thinking like cats and dogs? Simply wasting time. The valuable life, you are wasting. Making experiment in the laboratory, nonsensically, that from matter they'll create life. You see. How this nonsense...? What is the use of such thinking? Which is never possible. These rascals are thinking on that, in that way, that they'll in future produce life from matter which has never been possible in the history, past, present and they're thinking; "Oh, bright future." That potter's thinking. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thinking is a natural...
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got mind. You have got mind. Therefore you must think. But that thinking... Why there is psychology science? What do you think? Why do you go to school, college to learn psychology? To learn how to think. How thinking process is going on. There is education required, how to think correctly.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the subject matter of thinking...
Prabhupāda: The child is sent to school just for teaching him how to think correctly. Otherwise, what is the use of sending him to school? He can think at home. Why they are sent to school? To learn how to think. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) This is thinking, when you question that: "I want to become happy. Why I am not happy?" This is thinking. Everyone wants to become happy, but nature's process is to obstruct his happiness. So one should think: "Why this is position? I want to live. Why, by laws of nature, I am put to death? I must die? This is against my wish, against my desire." This is thinking. So how to get out of it? This is real thinking. I don't want something, but something is forced upon me, and why it is so? When this "Why?" question will come to me, that is real thinking. Where is that thinking? These rascals, where is that thinking? How to check death, how to check disease, how to check old age. Where is that thinking? Where is that scientist? Who is making research how to stop death, who is making research how to stop disease? You can manufacture medicine for the disease, but you cannot check happening of disease. That is not possible. Why it is? That is thinking. I want something, but it is being obstructed by nature. Why it is so? This "Why?" question must have come. Then his thinking is proper. That is Kena-upaniṣad, Kena.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Opposite, one opposite to the other.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Just the opposite. Yes. You cannot understand light without darkness. This is relative. Unless there is darkness, how you can say: "This is light"? So opposite, you can say opposite. Now this, this knowledge is there. Everyone knows. But where is that absolute where the bad and good, the black and white, everything coincides? That is absolute. Everything is there. That is not distinction. Everything is there. That is called absolute. Brahman. That means, Brahman means the biggest. Now when you speak something big, so everything is included. Big means bad and good, everything is included. Otherwise, how it can be big? Big means... Just like if you, when you speak of Los Angeles, so there are so many things, bad and good, in Los Angeles, all included. Is it not? So Brahman means bṛhattva, being the largest. The largest means it contains everything. Just like the sky. We have got the idea. The sky means it, it, it contains everything universal. This is the idea of greatest. So athāto brahma jijñāsā means we are now studying the relative truth. I'm studying black. You're studying white. He's studying another, another. In this way. Partial. But what is that biggest thing which includes everything? That is called brahma-jijñāsā, to inquire about that thing. Just like you are studying chemistry. We are studying Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there is something which contains the chemistry, Kṛṣṇa consciousness and everything. That is called Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animal life the subject matter, a small animal, he's concerned where to eat, where to sleep, where to find my food, shelter.
Dhanañjaya: It was a nice talk.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dhanañjaya: Sublime.
Prabhupāda: The subject matter is sublime.
Haṁsadūta: This boy that you were talking to this afternoon is...
Prabhupāda: Now everything is finished. (laughter)
Dhanañjaya: Now he must stay.
Devotee: He's going around to everyone.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: Would you like to wash your hands, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I have got. Now you can distribute amongst yourselves. They have been...
Devotee: This is a nice book, Upadeśāmṛta.
Prabhupāda: You have seen it.
Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. Not in a moment you can understand. Then you have to come to the schooling process. Otherwise how you can learn? In a moment? Such a big subject matter?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: We are going to solve all the problems of life. Such a nice proposal. Don't you think it requires little patience to understand how to do it?
Guest (1): It requires a little bravery.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): It requires bravery too.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got background, Kṛṣṇa, so bravery, personally we haven't got to practice. Just like a child is in the protection of an able father. He's happy. "Whatever happens, father will see." He's happy. He's confident. "My father is there; my mother is there. Who can do any harm to me?" He's confident.
Kṛṣṇa-bhāminī: The idea was that everyone should be pleased, that everyone should take...
Prabhupāda: No, where is the... In France, everyone is pleased? That is the imagination. You see. Vox populi, peoples' government. People, generally, general people, they are fools and rascals. How a government of fools and rascals can improve? It's not possible. They're ignorant. Abodha-jāta. They have no knowledge. The knowledge of eating, sleeping, mating, defending, that is animal knowledge. Everyone knows it. How to eat, nobody requires any education. How to sleep, nobody requires and any education. How to have sex life, nobody requires any education. How to defend, nobody requires education. They are not subject matter of education. Everyone knows it, how to do it. The modern education means they are on this subject matter. Just like that rascal, Freud?
Haṁsadūta: Freud.
Prabhupāda: He has written a big philosophy on sex life. Does it require any education? Anyone knows how to use sex life. And he has written big book. Similarly, defense also: they are making big, big arrangements, atomic bomb. I am making atomic bomb, you are making... Similarly, sleeping: big, big skyscraper building; eating: start thousands of slaughterhouse. Formerly also there were meat-eaters. But did they maintain slaughterhouse? "All right, I want to eat meat. Just go in the forest. Kill one animal. That's all. Pick it up." So this advancement of civilization means advancement of slaughterhouse, advancement of skyscraper building, advancement of atom bomb, advancement of Freud philosophy. This is advancement. The subject matter is the same, which does not require any education. Nobody requires education on this subject matter. Even the birds and beasts, they know what is their eatable. And they eat and they live. Now the advancement... Agricultural institute, a big college, how to improve agriculture. Crude people, they are producing also. Without agricultural college, they are producing sufficiently grain and eating. Still they do so.
Prabhupāda: That is... These are items. These are items. First of all you have to follow a perfect leader. Then whatever he says, that is perfect. So that peace, you have given a definition of peace. Kṛṣṇa is giving definition of peace:
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
"I am the proprietor of all the lokas," sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "I am the friend of everyone." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasām. "And I am the enjoyer of all fruitive activities." Jñātvā mām. "When one knows Me like that, he gets śānti." This is the śānti formula given by Kṛṣṇa. One has to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Enjoyer. Because He's the proprietor of everything; therefore He should be enjoyer. And because everything belongs to Him—we also belong to Him—so suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām, He's friend of everyone. So these three things, if you understand-Kṛṣṇa, or God, is the supreme enjoyer. He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend of everyone—then you get śānti. If we understand these three things only, then there is śānti. Otherwise there is no possibility of śānti. Now, how it is fact, that is a subject matter of discussion.
David Lawrence: The difference is irrelevant then.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no difference. Just like we are talking. You have got a coat. I have no coat. That does not make any difference. We are talking as gentlemen. That's all. The last time when I was in Calcutta I was invited by the Indo-American Cultural Society, and they gave me the subject matter: "East and West." So I talked, "We don't find any such distinction, 'East and West,' when we come to the spiritual platform. This is all material platform."
David Lawrence: We find when we're teaching, you know, really secular youngsters that it's terribly difficult to get off this cultural veneer, you know.
Prabhupāda: Therefore one has to understand first that "I am not this body."
David Lawrence: That's it. And you've got to believe... The teacher... This is the big thing, isn't it? The teacher has got to be God conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sir Alistair Hardy: I certainly believe that. Oh, I think we're very close really, in our views of God, except that I'm concentrating on studying the working of God in the people of today. You are studying the message of God given by Kṛṣṇa in the... And I'm trying to show they are the same, the same view as that revealed by Jesus and by other great...
Prabhupāda: No... When we speak of Veda, Veda means knowledge. So knowledge means knowledge of God. Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, that is Vedas. Don't think that Vedas means that only the Sāma, Yajuḥ, Atharva. Those who are following the principles to give knowledge about God, that is Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu is called veda, vetti. Jñāne when there is question of knowledge, these three forms are used: vetti, veda, vido, jñāne. Vinte vid vicaraṇe vidyate vid saptāyāṁ labhe vindati vindate. (?) This is the vid-dhātu description. So vid-dhātu means to know. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. That is real knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ, all kinds of Vedas. All kinds, sarvaiḥ. So Bible can be taken as Vedas because it is trying to give knowledge about God, maybe for a certain class of men. That is another thing. But the subject matter is how to know God. So that can be taken as also, as Vedas. Because ultimate knowledge is how to know God. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So we accept Bible also as Vedas, but we simply say that they misinterpret the Biblical commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse.
Prabhupāda: Simply by becoming Sanskrit scholar or Latin scholar, it is not sufficient. He must be God-realized, purified. Then it is possible. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ: (Brs. 1.2.234) "By your these blunt senses it is not possible to understand what is God, what is His form, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His kingdom, what is His paraphernalia." These things are to be understood. God means... Just like when we speak of "king." King does not mean alone. King means he has got his queen, he has got his kingdom, he has got his secretary, he has got his minister, he has got his palace, he has... so many things, king, royal. When we speak of Queen, we immediately remember the Buckingham Palace, his (her) bodyguards and so many, so many other things. Similarly, God means He has got His entourage also, everything. He's not alone. To understand God means to understand everything of God—His name, His fame, His līlā, His pastimes. So nāmādi. With all these blunt senses, how can we... We cannot understand even the Personality of Godhead, what to speak of other things? "God is a person:"—it is a very difficult subject matter for ordinary man to take it, very difficult subject. That is stated in the... Even the demigods they cannot understand. That is... Because he's thinking materially that "This cosmic manifestation, then creation, is so big, and it is created by a person. How it is possible?" But... Because they do not know what is that person. Simply by the word "person," he is afraid: "Oh, oh, oh, oh."
Prabhupāda: This zoology is another subject matter, whether life began from matter or matter began from life.
Sir Alistair Hardy: That's a great problem in biology, how did life arise from the inorganic matter.
Revatīnandana: Quite a problem. We don't agree. We think that it didn't.
Sir Alistair Hardy: No? I say, that's...
Prabhupāda: Life came from life; matter also came from matter, er, life. That is explained in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādyasya yataḥ. And it is explained in Bhagavad-gītā: Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). So there is no difficulty.
Sir Alistair Hardy: But life may have arisen from the inorganic by the breathing in of the Divine into it. And there's no doubt that our bodies are material, but within our bodies is this divine, what I call the "divine flame" in one of my (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Why not the "divine person?" Wherefrom flame comes?
Prabhupāda: And to get help for this realization we are concerned with everything. Naturally, politics, economics, science, art, philosophy, everything is included. And that is the perfection of all other subject matter. Everything has got an objective. So any of these departmental knowledge, namely politics, economics, art, science, philosophy, religion, art, science, philosophy, religion, everything should be aimed to achieve this end, God realization.
Reporter: But, thank you. But, uh, so, in this way, you have to, in all of the science, you mean, economic, politic, etc., you have to take position, sometimes perhaps. For instance, for going to the knowing of Kṛṣṇa in politics perhaps you will choose one system or the other. And in science, in philosophy, etc. Do you... But this, those choose have never been explained to the people, you know.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it should be.
Reporter: It should be. Have you...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, we, we, we have explained it in our book, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, wherever possibility. Find out that verse: kāmam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4).
Devotee: Here, it'll be.
Bhagavān: Here. In the afternoon you are scheduled to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the subject matter? Any (indistinct).
Bhagavān: As you like.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is the most refined socialism. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... Our socialism means centering around Kṛṣṇa. Just like Russian socialism is around the ideas of Marx or Lenin. So we have got also similar leader. As the communist has got the leader, Marx or Lenin, similarly we have also got the leader, Kṛṣṇa.
Bhagavān: There is, there is kind of socialist or communist philosophy that says that everyone must be able to do the same work in order to be equal.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is rascaldom. We have divided already four classes of men. Even in Russia... Even in Russia, I have seen, they have created two classes, the worker class, the manager class. I have seen it. Yes. So you cannot say that everyone will do the same work. That is not possible. I have given already the example, the brain, the arms, the abdomen and the leg. The leg cannot do the work of brain. Leg can cooperate with the brain, but cannot do the work of brain. This is natural position.
Prabhupāda: That means it is a association of cheaters and cheated. Somebody wants to cheat and somebody's being cheated. That's all. That is our opinion. So how the association of cheaters and cheated can do anything good to the human society? They're cheaters. They do not know how this peace has to be attained, and they're trying to attain peace in their own way. Therefore they're cheaters. You do not a subject matter, how to do it, and you're trying to do it, that means you are cheater. It may be very strong words, but the fact is there. Why should you try something which you do not know adequately? That is our protest.
Dr. Inger: Well, many people would say that the use of the intellect alone, which is an excuse for not going deep into oneself, is the technique that is used. What can be rationally explained, only rationally explained, is what matters.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Cosmic consciousness. We also believe individual consciousness and cosmic consciousness. We are now studying this subject matter in our class. Kṣetra-kṣetra-jña. So kṣetra-jña, the knower... The individual soul is also knower, conscious, and the Supersoul, God, is also conscious. So we also admit, universal consciousness, that is God's consciousness. (break)... consciousness is limited.
Yogeśvara: (break) ...is studying the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the evolution, when our consciousness is in agreement with the supreme consciousness. (break) That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucian order is a mystical and philosophical order that allows its students...
Prabhupāda: Who is Rosin? He is a philosopher?
Yogeśvara: He says that the term Rosicrucian means, it's an image of a cross with a rose in the center. It means that the disciple is aspiring towards the perfection of his consciousness and that this also means the perfection of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness?
Yogeśvara: He says it is love.
Prabhupāda: We are speaking of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The message is from the spiritual world. It is not of this material world. Therefore sometimes people may misunderstand. So we have to explain it nicely. Just like they cannot even understand what is the soul. A minute particle of spirit, it is... But they do not understand. Big big scientist, big, big philosophers. But the entire subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not of this material world. All it is of spiritual world, but they have no information of the spirit and the spiritual world. Therefore, sometimes they find it very difficult to understand.
David Lawrence: One of the very important enclosures which we mentioned when I came up last, for the teachers' pack this was, not for the actual booklet, was a series of questions, what we would call sticky ones in the West, but I'm sure you'll deal with them with very great ease. I've tried to produce what I thought would be objections to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not as such to theism, but more to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if I could, Mukunda has got them in fact, there's about eight or nine. And if you could be pleased to perhaps answer them on tape, and I can have them transposed. We're going to produce this in the teachers' pack six or seven sheets of cyclo-styled notes for the teachers. So they'll be able to meet the objections perhaps, of their students. Some of the intelligent students may make points which clearly can be met.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: But we can meet them, in a sense, before they're even asked.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, suppose, what you are? What is your business? What do you do? You're teacher, what is the subject matter?
Guest (1): I teach in law.
Prabhupāda: So if one wants to know what is law, he must become a student. It is not that simply asking "What is law, sir?" You can make him understand within a minute or within hour? Is it possible?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning.
Prabhupāda: So that very time so I first of all asked the students, "Where is your technological department to find out the thing when a man is dead, and you replace it?" These were my subject matter. I talked. A man is working. (Aside:) come on. A man is working. All of a sudden he stops to work. So a motor car is working. All of a sudden it stops. So there are technologists who can repair the car and it will again start. That is technology. Now the man is working, stopped. So where is that technology to make it move again. That was... I spoke on this. So they very much appreciated. After my lecture they gathered round me. You remember that? No.
Gargamuni: I wasn't there.
Prabhupāda: So actually, in this, at the present moment, they have invented so many technology, but this technology is missing. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). Nobody wants to die. And where is that technology, to stop death? What so you think? You are financing many technological institutions, businesses. Why don't you finance an institution which is giving instruction how to stop death?
Prabhupāda: Actually, at the present age, nobody is interested in spiritual subject matter. Nobody is interested. So nobody is coming to surrender to you. Therefore you have to canvass, "Please surrender. Please surrender." This is our position. Otherwise, the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One should come to the guru. But nobody comes to the guru, therefore guru has to come to U.S.A. to canvass. This is the position. Nobody went to me in India, but I had to come here to canvass you. Because it is Kali-yuga. Real process is one should go to the guru. But intelligent man goes: "My life is meant for spiritual realization. So I must find out a guru." That is his business, but people are so fallen in this age that nobody's interested in that subject matter, that he has got a spiritual value and he has to achieve this knowledge and make his life perfect. Nobody knows it. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught preaching. These rascals, they are so fallen, they'll never search out guru. So guru should go and canvass.
Prabhupāda: Mad, madmen.
Karandhara: But his books are in colleges especially. Millions and millions of students accept his books as practically gospel.
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter of the book?
Karandhara: Subject matter of his books, that life is ultimately absurd. There is no real meaning to it. We place our own meanings on it, but those are...
Prabhupāda: So you are trying... Why you are trying to explain it? Why you are trying to explain it?
Karandhara: Yes, actually he is trying to make reason out of the absurdity.
Prabhupāda: To prove absurd is his reason? That means absurd reason.
Karandhara: Well, that's what he ultimately realized, that everything is absurd. There is no use speaking, writing or even living.
Prabhupāda: No, no, the thing is that you are saying "absurd," I am saying, "not absurd." Who will settle up this? That is the... If you settle your own affair. I settle my own affair. So who will settle up, whether I am right, you are right?
Śrutakīrti: It will be settled at death.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. (break) ...prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ. By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...enjoy and be satisfied in the association of devotees. (break) ...article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled. He becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physicist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Then your attempt is successful. (break) We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful. (break) ...uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is, because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman, we have simply said, "Kṛṣṇa Supreme." That's all.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hṛdayānanda: Boarding school.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: And there should... Should there be any material subject matters taught like in gurukula?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like material subject matter, kṣatriya, or the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, as they are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, what are the symptoms of brāhmaṇa, what is the symptoms of kṣatriya. The kṣatriyas should be taught how to fight also. There will be military training. There will be training how to kill.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And vaiśyas should be trained how to give protection to the cows, how to till the field and grow food. Practical.
Nitāi: Not business also?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Nitāi: The vaiśyas?
Prabhupāda: Business, this rascal business, no.
Prabhupāda: ...disciple has read it that from government side there is an article that in Iranian country they want meat, so all these skinny cows should be killed and meat should be exported so that you can get oil economically. So one should not think of this religious sentiment. They should be practical. They should not object. Government is going to open many slaughterhouse to get oil, and kill these loitering, mischief loitering cows, no food. Like that. So government policy is that religious (indistinct) is an opiate of the (indistinct). It is a sentiment. It has no value. That is government conclusion. So therefore their decision is not to encourage these temples and this bhajana. To their point of view, it is useless. So indirectly or directly, they will patronize this. So under the circumstances, we have to make vigorous propaganda, public opinion. You see? Therefore I suggest that various meetings should be arranged in big, big halls and public meeting so that public may understand, at least, that this movement is very important. And let there be advertisement, different subject matter, to invite people here. They may come. Then I will explain. And all my students and others, they may hold, arrange for pan... I'll also speak. In that meeting make a nice gentleman president. In this way, create public opinion so that they will come here and they will sign this, "Yes, here must be one temple." Take signatures and...
Guest (Indian man): Signatures of them.
Dr. Patel: Americans are very clever at using money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have made a clique with the managers of the foundation, and they present by literature all lies. The subject matter is India. "Oh, so many people are starving, so many..." In this way they take money from the managers, and it is divided amongst themselves.
Dr. Patel: They are the (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhava-bhūti: Also, Prabhupāda, there was one report that the Red Cross, seventy-five percent of the money collected went on advertising.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Dr. Patel: America is living on advertisement. Right or wrong? I have been studying American, I mean, psychology.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I understand.
Prabhupāda: This is yoga practice also. Yoga. Yoga means to concentrate the mind on a subject matter. So we should meditate upon Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta. Then gradually you'll increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. And that is the perfection of life. The perfection of life, the symbol is in Vṛndāvana. Because all the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, they were very, very, much attached to Kṛṣṇa.
Mr. Sar: Attached to Kṛṣṇa were.
Prabhupāda: The cowherd boys, the girls, the elderly persons, the trees, the flowers, the land, the birds, the beasts, the cows-their center was Kṛṣṇa. So we have to follow their footprints, how to... We have got already attachment.
Mr. Sar: Yes. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ.
Prabhupāda: No, attachment we have got for material things. That we have to transfer. This is yoga practice.
Mr. Sar: That is yoga practice. Correct.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. Yoga, the... I think it is Patañjali sūtra.
Dr. Patel: Yat te 'haṁ priyamāṇāya vakṣyāmi hita-kāmyayā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because these things are to be spoken to My dear devotees, priyamāṇāya, for the special benefit of the devotees, not for the ordinary man." Bhūya eva mahā-bāho (BG 10.1). Mahā-bāho, this word is used, "mighty-armed," who is very strong in devotional service, mahā-bāho. Bhūya eva mahā-bāho sṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ (BG 10.1)." Mahā-bāho, because you are My great devotee, therefore I am speaking further, very important subject matter." Next line?
Dr. Patel:
- na me viduḥ sura-ganaḥ
- prabhavaṁ na maharṣayaḥ
- aham ādir hi devānāṁ
- maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ
- (Bg 10.2)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even the... Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ. Sura-gaṇāḥ means demigods, and what to speak of the rascals? How the rascals, simply by little educational qualification, can understand Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: So... Yes. So unless one is convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of all causes, sarva kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), he has not understood the confidential subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the con... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Unless one comes to this conclusion, that "Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything," ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, iti matvā bhajante mām, he cannot be fixed up in the worship or serving Kṛṣṇa. This conclusion must be reached.
Dr. Patel: The next word is telling the same thing as you say.
- bhavāpyayau hi bhūtānāṁ
- śrutau vistaraśo mayā
- tvattaḥ kamala-patrākṣa
- māhātmyam api cāvyayam
- (BG 11.2)
That "Everything is originating from You and..."
Prabhupāda: Now the opposite. This is the conclusion, that one has to understand that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes, He is the origin of everything. So why do they divert their attention to other subjects?
Dr. Patel: Because of the māyā.
Mahāṁsa: (break) ...who is learned. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...business, that without being learned in the subject matter he wants to give instruction. (break)
Girirāja: "Sir, let us now make arrangements to kill all children who were born within the last ten days in towns, countries, villages and pasturing grounds." (break)
Prabhupāda: On this side there is government sign, "No dogs," "No dogs." Dogs are not allowed.
Indian man (4): What is the reason?
Prabhupāda: Dogs are disturbing to the people. They can attack any man. If one takes dog, he must lash it, chain. That is the law there. (break)
Indian man (4): There is no idea also. When master is there, then he can control the dog.
Prabhupāda: Oh, the master is... He may be master of the dog, but he is not master of the world.
Prabhupāda: ...gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Those who are gṛhamedhis and do not know anything else except maintaining the family, they are called gṛhamedhi. And those who cultivating spiritual consciousness in gṛhastha life with family and children, they are called gṛhasthas. That is the difference between gṛhamedhi and gṛhastha. So gṛhamedhi, they have no aim of life, of self-realization. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. (break) ...self-realization. Nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2), who cannot see what is the ātma-tattvam, what is the path of self-realization. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhinām. Therefore it is the duty of the sannyāsī... Sannyāsī does not mean that he will beg for fulfilling his hungry belly. Sannyāsī means he must enlighten—that is sannyāsī—in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) ...rājendra nṛnaṁ santi sahasrasaḥ apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). This is the Sukadeva Gosvāmī says that śrotavyādīni rājendra (SB 2.1.2), subject matter for hearing nrnam, for the human being, nṛnāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ, thousands of... Just like in the newspaper in the morning, thousands of varieties of news they will attend, and ask them to attend the maṅgala ārati for self-realization, "No, that is not... You are disturbing, nonsense."
Prabhupāda: It is not popular actually. For the common man it is dry subject. And I have heard that after reading one book, somebody comes to purchase. "What is this, Bhāgavata?" "We have got six." "All right, give me six volumes." He is not a devotee. Why he purchases all the six volumes of Bhāgavatam? In London our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is was sold in two months, thirty thousand copies. That is the report. Thirty thousand copies.
Yadubara: Even though they don't understand the subject matter, they purchase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) Bon Mahārāja has written part of Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. And he published it before my coming to foreign countries.
Gargamuni: Yes. He has not sold any.
Prabhupāda: No, he has sold some, but still lying in the store. He published only one thousand copies. Our Nectar of Devotion, the translation of the same book, is selling like hotcakes. Yes. In the university, Temple University, they have made a textbook. And everywhere they like it, Nectar of Devotion. I think... What is our edition at the present moment? Fourth or Fifth edition. And we don't publish less than ten thousand copies. So we have to depend on Kṛṣṇa sincerely.
Richard Webster: Oh, yes. I agree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. Literatures are also, authentic literatures... Śrutayaḥ means authentic literature, which is acceptable. They are also various type. Just like Vedas. There are four Vedas: Sāma-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Atharva-Veda, Ṛg-Veda. Then the Upaniṣads are there. Then the Vedānta-sūtra is there. So if we study all this Vedic literature or any other similar literature, it is very difficult to find out the Absolute Truth. Śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. And if we take the philosophers, so one philosopher differs from another philosopher. Na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Therefore, to approach the Absolute Truth, God, is very difficult subject matter. Therefore our principle is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahājana means the recognized persons, recognized by the Supreme Lord, such persons we follow. We have got a list of recognized persons, just like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, the Manu. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Manu's name is there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), this Manu. So Manu, then Kapila, then Prahlāda, Janaka, Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Yamarāja. In this way there are twelve mahājanas. And we receive knowledge from either of them.
Prabhupāda: And... Why Calcutta? You go to the airport. You will find so nice gardens, still existing. Now it is spoiled also. Because people have changed locally to the city. Nobody has to take care now. Otherwise, in Bengal especially, throughout the whole India, Bengal was so beautiful. The Europeans became attracted by the beauty of Bengal. Therefore they made Calcutta their capital, the Britishers. Yes. Every European liked Bengal. Every European. I met one European German gentleman in Bombay. He was in Calcutta. When I was in Bimha (?). So I asked, "Why you left Calcutta?" "Oh, I am very sorry. Calcutta was so nice." And actually. Where we have got our temple, these quarters were known as "Sahib" quarter. Just like our temple is "Sahib" temple. So these Chowringee and Camac Street, Park, these were all European. They liked very much to live in Bengal. And there is another story. One English officer he became attracted by the beauty of a Bengali woman. There is story by Bankima Candra. Candrashekhara. The man was after that woman, how to get it. That is the subject matter of story. He was attracted by the black eyes and black hair. Bengali beauty.
Yogeśvara: Our temples. These big, big temples we have now.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to go everywhere. Wherever there is opportunity to instruct about this spiritual subject matter, we must go there. We should not have such discrimination, that city should be neglected. No. Why? They are also human being. They are misled. So we have to give them a little instruction. Everywhere. In cities there is possibility. Whatever we have collected, our men, that is from city, not from the village. So why should we neglect city? Where is the question? (break) All hobgoblin, the last word which I said, "dressing the dead body, decorating the dead body." The society has no brain; that means dead body. When a man's brain is gone, he is dead body, maybe he is living. He has no use. Just like a madman. He has got life, but what is the use of that life? It is already dead. Because his brain is deranged. Is it not? So if the brain is lost, brain is deranged, therefore it is dead body. That is the distinction between living body and dead body. A living man has got brain. He can work with his brain. And the dead bod... The body is there. Why call it dead? Because brain is not working. Brain is dead. That is the difference. Although the hand is there. The dead man has also hand. The leg is there. The dead man has also leg. But why the hand is leg? Because the brain is dead.
Prabhupāda: It is a little technical subject, so translation. We... Our Bhagavad-gītā, there is yoga practice also. So we approve this yoga practice. There is no doubt. And in the Vedic literature it is said, dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). The yogis, they also sees the Absolute Truth by meditation within the mind. So this process is approved process, and there are divisions. Sagarbha-yogī, nirgarbha-yogī (?). So what is your special subject matter of yoga?
M. Roost: I try to make a yoga with understanding from occident... I saw that occidental people is more intellectual, and I don't understand very easily the karma-yoga. The dynamics and... I don't understand we must work without, without goal, without intention, without personal intention. And I try to show through the practice of haṭha-yoga that posture and prāṇāyāma and concentration. I try to...
Prabhupāda: Beginning from abdomen?
M. Roost: The kind of meditation I learned in India with Swami Satyananda, it's a few different type meditation.
Prabhupāda: They begin from the abdomen, maṇipūraka, maṇipūraka. And then the intestines. They come to the heart; then ultimately, to the brahma-randhra. This practice?
Prof. Regamay: But nonviolence is not well in every case?
Prabhupāda: No, nonviolence... Actually that is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā. What do you mean by nonviolence. Because you are not this body. Suppose if I tear away your coat, does it mean that you are killed? So those who are in the bodily concept of life, "I am this body," for them, this kind of fighting or killing is violence. It is violence. But the thing is, there is sometimes necessity. Just like every state maintains the military force, the police force. What is this? The violence department. Required. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). Suppose you are attacked by some rogue, and if somebody comes and kills him, there is a necessity. It is natural. If you say that time nonviolence, it is foolishness. It is foolishness. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Those who are rogues and, I mean to say, culprit, criminal, they should be killed. They should be stopped by violence. So violence is required sometimes. Violence is not bad, but it is not to be used ordinarily.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, that Viṭhṭhala, Viṭhṭhala. Viṭhṭhala, there is... So they are Vaiṣṇava.
Priest: And it's the main... (indistinct) center of Maharastra.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Pāṇḍarapura.
Priest: When I went to India twenty-five years ago, I first studied for four years at this pilgrimage.
Prabhupāda: What was your subject matter studying?
Priest: I was studying for a thesis, a doctorate thesis, this pilgrimage, the story of the pilgrimage and everything of the brāhmaṇa pilgrimage. And as you know, it was one of the main bhakti tradition in Maharastra, Orissa, Jñāneśvara.
Prabhupāda: Tukārāma, Tukārāma.
Priest: Tukārāma.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Priest: I have proceeded to (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Tukārāma is in the line of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Unless we understand that what is his aim of discussion, then how we can make progress? (Yogeśvara mentions something in French about Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna) No, why you are bringing Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna? First of all, let us know what is the aim of our discussion, the subject matter of discussion. (French for some time)
Jyotirmayī: His main point when he quotes Bhagavad-gītā is to show that it is a philosophy of action, it is dynamic, that Kṛṣṇa told Arjuna to fight. So there was a war. It is dynamics, not just sentiment, philosophy. It is active.
Yogeśvara: Yeah. Neti, neti. Getting rid of the bad elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is practical, practical action. Yes. (French)
Yogeśvara: So he says, "Therefore we're coming back to our original point of discussion which is that real religion is not a question of a man's motives, but it's a question of his actions."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Twelve o'clock.
Bhagavān: Oh, yes. The manager of the hall was pleading with us to ask them to leave. He wanted to go home. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that's very good that so many stayed to find out more information, to ask, to discuss.
Prabhupāda: Yes, any reasonable man will find subject matter interesting. There is a statement of Caitanya-caritāmṛta, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra: (CC Adi 8.15) "Just consider and then give your judgement after studying the mercy of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu." It is never recommended to take it blindly. Karaha vicāra: "Just judge with reason and argument." And vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra: "If you consider it with logic and judgement, then you'll find it is sublime." (French)
Bhagavān: So an interpretation of a scripture, whether it be Bible or Bhagavad-gītā, cannot simply be an opinion, but it must be based on logic and reason.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in the Bible it is said, "There was only word in the beginning." So in the beginning, there was word. That means that word is not the word of this material creation.
American Man: I say God cannot be explained with words.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why do you say? If you do not know God, how do you say like that?
American Man: Because I...
Prabhupāda: If you do not know the subject matter... You say that "God is not knowable," then how can you speak of God?
American Man: I do not speak of God.
Prabhupāda: No, you are speaking that "God is word." You say, "God is word."
American Man: No, I say God is only a word, and that's why I cannot speak of God, because it's a word and it cannot explain.
Prabhupāda: But you have got this word. Why you speak all these contradictory things?
American Man: No. I say that I cannot speak of God because it is a word...
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know what is God. First of all accept.
Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter."
Prabhupāda: We take this body—dead always. This body is actually dead. Just like this microphone is made of iron. It is iron. When it is working, responding, at that time also it is iron. And when it is out of order, does not work, it is also iron. Similarly, this body is working on account of the living force within. When the living force is out, it is called dead. But actually it is dead always. The living force is the important thing. That is making him alive. Actually alive or dead, it is dead matter. But the living force is the active principle. That is distinguishing this body as dead or alive. But factually it is dead always. That is the beginning of instruction, Bhagavad-gītā: "Arjuna, you are lamenting for this body, but the body is dead." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). So unless we know that... (aside:) Don't make "cut-cut." The dead body is not the subject matter of study either it is in working order or it is in dead order. The subject matter of study is the active principle which makes the dead body moving. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Read that portion.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can understand. So our students are taught on the principle of Bhagavad-gītā that the body is always dead. The body is simply just like a machine, a big machine. This machine, it is dead, but as soon as I push the button it works. Similarly, the body is dead, but within the body, the life or the active principle, so long it is there, it is responding. Just like we are talking. I am asking my student, "Come here." He comes. But as soon as the active principle is out, I will ask him for thousands of years, "Come here"—he will not come. It is very simple to distinguish. Now, what is that active principle, that is a separate subject matter to understand. And that is the beginning of spiritual knowledge. This is our learning.
Prabhupāda: What these theologicians think about God? It is already 1,500 months' substance to read. What they will discover? Teeny discovery? We have already stock for 1,500 years' understanding. So what we have to understand from them? (break) ...anādir ananta-rūpam. This is only for Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa has got expansions—unlimited. Advaita, acyuta, ananta. Ananta means unlimited. God, His one feature is Kṛṣṇa, and He has unlimited features. If a gentleman simply reads the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam quietly at home, he will be fully conversant, fully aware of what is God. Just like a scholar. He is not limited in one university or in one book. He reads various books to understand the subject matter of his research. Similarly, those who are actually serious about understanding God, they should not stick only to a particular scripture. They should read all others where the information of God is there. Just like we sometimes quote from Bible, but the Christians, they cannot quote from Bhagavad-gītā or Bhāgavata. They cannot do that. But they do not read. Even they do not read fully their Bible.
Prabhupāda: Meditation? What is the ultimate goal? That means no perfect knowledge. The so-called meditation is very popular, but what meditation? What is subject matter of meditation? You can close. It is closed?
Satsvarūpa: Close the blinds? There's a draft coming in, but the windows are closed.
Prabhupāda: Not closed. Yes, now it is closed. Just make it point three. It is on two. That's it. (long pause) (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...have to strain the juice from this mango?
Prabhupāda: And did you do it?
Satsvarūpa: No. I've seen Pālikā do it with a cloth and then mix it with a little milk. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...human being. It is not meant for the beast. God has given different food for different person, different. You will find even food grains, rice-first quality rice, second quality rice. Why nature has produced? Because there are persons who cannot eat third quality rice. So God has given: "Oh, here is first-class quality." They will eat little. And in India there are classes, they will eat so much. So for them that red rice is good. They do not like this fine basmati. I have got practical experience. Sometime we used to give even the servants the same rice. So this man came. He complained, "Bahu." "Bahu" means master. "This rice is not suitable for us." That fine basmati rice. He did not like it. Then the next day that red, big, big. Have seen that? Japanese rice or some, Burmese rice. It is reddish and big and little hard, and he likes: "Very nice." So there are classes of men, classes of animals. I have got practical experience of all this. The big animals... (break) ...living entities. That He is providing everyone. Nobody is hungry. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That depends on him. Even in the temple, if his mind is in a different subject matter, then how it will help him?
Bali Mardana: The temple authorities like to preach that anyone who's living outside the temple is going to hell.
Prabhupāda: Generally.
Bali Mardana: But even devotees who are following. They like to preach that.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not. That is not. Just like even in ordinary business, if you transact business in the stock association, you get good business. And outside the stock association you don't get. Because association is there, there are many purchaser and many seller. So if you have to sell, you get immediate purchaser. And if you have to purchase, there is immediate seller. That is... Therefore the stock exchange is there. That is the way, that if we live together in the stock exchange of devotional service, then you can help me; I can help you. So our business will go on nicely. And outside the market, you can live three hundred miles away from the stock exchange. You will not get so many business. Like that.
Prabhupāda: Even they play with tape. Tape... Tapes... The tape is going on, and then are playing.
Gurudāsa: Yes, they also do that sometimes. They have tapes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So organize this, and all over the world this will be appreciated. And now we have got so many books. From the book you get subject matter and make a playwright in all languages. It will be very nice.
Gurudāsa: They have a repertoire of eight main ones that they can do, and now they're starting to do others also, from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, etc.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think he is good director, Prajāpati.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. His wife is very expert also.
Prabhupāda: Oh. And also you can call... What is he? Jagad-dhita...? That Australian girl?
Gurudāsa: Oh, yes, Jagatāriṇī.
Prabhupāda: Jagatāriṇī.
Prabhupāda: The main principle is, to understand spiritual subject matter, one must be sinless. You find that verse,
- yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
(break) ...ess, more we can understand spiritual matters. Therefore among our students, the four principles... (break) Explain. Yes, are prohibited.
Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)
Hṛdayānanda: He says if to be sinless is not something more profound than simply restricting the body from some things, if there's not a more profound aspect of sinlessness.
Prabhupāda: The body is consider... Just like if you have got high fever, you cannot act your brain.
Prabhupāda: How do you think like that? Is there anything within this you world which can be learned without guru? Even if you become an ordinary carpenter, you have to learn from an expert carpenter. So how you can imagine to learn the topmost subject matter without guru? This is... The Vedic injunction is, therefore, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12), samit-pāṇiḥ, like that. We must have a bona fide guru to train us in the understanding of spiritual matter. Guru means who knows the thing, who can teach you. That is guru, not a humbug guru, but guru means one who knows. Tattva-darśinaḥ, one who has seen the truth, he can become guru. Find this verse,
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti tad-jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
Prabhupāda: Of course, I am not a psychiatrist, but what is the subject matter of psychiatrist? May I know? So far I know, that when a man becomes mad, he requires consultation of a psychiatrist. Is that all right? (Hṛdayānanda talks with other man in Spanish)
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that nowadays psychiatry is not so much concerned just with crazy people, but it's just concerned with the human problems.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good. So what is the human problem in their understanding?
Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): To some extent they see that when there's something wrong with the physical body, it causes a manifestation of a mental disease.
Prabhupāda: When there is something wrong in the physical body, there is mental disease. That we accept also. But that mental disease is there basically, that he is thinking that he is body.
Prabhupāda: Absolute, that is absolute.
Satsvarūpa: "Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by so doing have become immortal. Similarly, science and philosophy also should be applied in the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification. Philosophy and science should be engaged to establish the glory of the Lord. Advanced people are eager to understand the Absolute Truth through the medium of science, and therefore a great scientist should endeavor to prove the existence of the Lord on a scientific basis. Similarly, all other branches of knowledge should always be engaged in the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same is affirmed. All "knowledge" not engaged in the service of the Lord is but nescience. Real utilization of advanced knowledge is to establish the glories of the Lord, and that is the real import. Scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are all factually hari-kīrtana, or glorification of the Lord."
Prabhupāda: That is perfection. If you can write this book nicely all together, it will be a great service to Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa will bless you and help you.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-jijñāsā. That is beginning of knowledge, what is the absolute truth?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the research topic.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Now this subject matter should be taken up seriously in the human form of life, that is the suggestion. Atha, atha, ataḥ, now you have got this human form of life, therefore you discuss about the absolute truth. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Yes?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next one is, next chapter is "Matter Originates from Life." That one of Dāsa (?) Prabhu's. And on the eleventh chapter there will be (indistinct)...
Prabhupāda: Matter is a manifestation of life's energy. We can daily experience. The matter, hair is growing. Cut, again growing. Why? Because there is life. Dead body, hair never grows. Is it not?
Mādhava: Well the scientists will say it's just recombination of matter.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, when there is body dead, no hair grows.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's not a religion.
Prabhupāda: No, if you want to study something, and suppose you are sometimes from India, the same subject he's going to study in foreign country, farther enlightenment, it is also not necessary that to study a subject matter more and more, we have to remain in the same jurisdiction. If I am actually anxious to know more and more, it doesn't matter whether I get the knowledge from Mohammedan or Hindu or Christian, it doesn't matter. Knowledge is knowledge. When a student goes from one country to another to get farther enlightenment on a subject matter, he does not think that "I'll have to learn it from here, from my university." For knowledge, progress of knowledge, you can go to any university. Because knowledge must be scientific. It is not restricted within the jurisdiction of a particular university. So, sun we are seeing, everyone, the sun, getting heat and light but if anyone is interested (to) know how the heat is coming, how the light is coming, what is the situation of the sun globe, whether there are living entities or not. They're also subject matter. So if you can get enlightenment of the sun, we should not restrict ourselves that we have to study with this jurisdiction of my university, or my country, or my society. If the knowledge is there, we should be prepared to go forward. Mm.
Prabhupāda: This... The subject matter is whether by theological arguments one can understand God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, according to dictionary, theology, theo, the Latin word theo, it means, that means God. Theo means God. And as far as I know, theology means the science or the study of God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pañcadraviḍa: So by definition...
Prajāpati: Not precisely. The word theology comes from the word logos. Theologos. And logos, in this sense, means the word of God. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, the words of God, that means one must know what is God. Otherwise how he can know this is the word of God? What is the answer by the theologian?
Prajāpati: The word of God is that a man is known by his works, his fruits. If he is a godly man...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Unless you know what is God, how you can accept this is the word of God? Just like you say, "Prabhupāda says." You take it, accept it: "Oh, Prabhupāda said." But you know what is Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The answer to his point is that just as there's a president of the United States, so when someone is talking about the president, according to how intimate that person is, you discuss different subject matters. For example, if the person is just a common person, a regular person, you may discuss about the president's powers in the government. But when you meet someone who actually is intimately connected with the president, then you describe the president's family, how the president's family is doing, what is the president doing in his time of relaxation, etc. So similarly, Jesus was speaking to persons who were not very intimate with God. They were not so much spiritually advanced. Therefore, for those persons, simply the power and glory of God is mentioned in the Bible. But Kṛṣṇa, the description of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavatam, is meant for the pure devotees. And for them the very detailed, intimate description of Kṛṣṇa is given there.
Pañcadraviḍa: Nirmatsarāṇām.
Prajāpati: A very major thing happenned to the Christian tradition in about 400 A.D. Up until that time, as best our records are, Christianity was very much like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very much like our movement. But at that time it became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Constantine, and it took on many of the paraphernalia of the old Roman demigod worship, and at that time it became a whole...
Prabhupāda: Just to make it favorable for your government, for the government.
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then deterioration began.
Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.
Prabhupāda: So that is his position. Either he is a foolish rascal or he is not a gentleman, falsely preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is his position. If you do not know a subject matter, why do you talk about it? Either you mislead or cheat or you are a foolish, you have no science. Similarly, here is a tape recorder, I do not know how the machine is working. If I talk about it authoritatively is it not my foolishness? I can talk about Bhagavad-gītā or something else, but that does mean I know everything about this machine? But he did it like this. He was dealing in politics, and he took up as a mahātmā, a religious man. That was his cheating.
Devotee (1): For instance, a man who is in the mode of passion like a kṣatriya, he only finds satisfaction when he's engaged in warfare or administrative work. Similarly so with a vaiśya or a śūdra...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is the basic principle of civilization, what we want to fulfill, what is the goal. There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry. So where is that department of knowledge?
Justin Murphy: Where do we fit in?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So, these classes of men are now predominant.
Amogha: They are what?
Śrutakīrti: Predominant.
Amogha: Predominant.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are taking care only of this body which is—dead or alive—it is not subject matter of seriousness. I shall tell you later on.
Amogha: Excuse me.
Prabhupāda: I'll tell you later on.
Amogha: Okay.
Prabhupāda: (taking prasādam) (indistinct) But it has got some arrangement, it does not fall down.
Amogha: Yeah, well they accept that also. They say only if there is no such arrangement, then it will fall down.
Prabhupāda: That means conditional. And who makes that condition? That means ultimately you have to accept the existence of God.
Prabhupāda: Simply one who knows the subject matter, he can explain.
Madhudviṣa: But can your, would your purports, would that serve as explanation besides...
Prabhupāda: No, no, anyone who knows the subject matter, he will be able to explain. Not necessarily the author is required to be present there. (break) ...to study from a medical man, I never said you have to study from the author. Or one who understood the author's purpose. Just like we are explaining Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Not that one has to learn directly from Kṛṣṇa. One who has understood Kṛṣṇa, from him. That is paramparā system.
Madhudviṣa: Also in the lecture last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that after the water subsides, then the trees come out, and then the insects, then the birds. That would indicate that the creation takes place in stages?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Madhudviṣa: It would indicate that the creation of this universe takes place in stages, over quite a long period of time, and this is what the scientists also claim. Darwin's theory is similar to that, that first there was water, then vegetation came up, and then gradually, gradually, each and every species evolved, like that. So is there some correlation between those?
Prabhupāda: But the varieties of creation, not that everything is coming like that. Just like Brahmā was first created, the first intelligent man. So although there was water, he was above water. He was on the lotus flower, which is not in the water. So that is also creation. So suppose this part is not covered by water—you see grass. But where there is lake there is no grass. So both things are there. Somewhere where there is water, unless the water is dried up, there is no grass. But somewhere you will find, immediately, grass. But there is no water. Or above water. So far the material elements are concerned, that is this stage. But the material elementary presentation, in different places, different way.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Can a material calculation prove...
Prabhupāda: No. Materialists cannot understand spiritual subject matter. It is not for them.
Harikeśa: So there is a project in Los Angeles where some psychologists are examining all the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Some psychologists are there. They are doing a laboratory test on all the devotees.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he may study in his own way, but he will not profit.
Harikeśa: He will not profit. So this, the findings, even if they are published will not profit?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: The findings? They are going to...
Prabhupāda: So what is their findings? The devotees are working on the soul platform but he does not know what is soul.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no answer.
Bahulāśva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The difficult subject matter, they set aside.
Bahulāśva: They avoid.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Revatīnandana: But this gerontology is not a major subject in any of the universities yet.
Prabhupāda: They know, "It is not possible by us." They know it.
Bahulāśva: I was speaking with Professor Stahl about this point in Berkeley. And he also had no answers for this question. He thought that there was no such thing as eternal life.
Prabhupāda: Well, then, therefore you are a rascal. Then why you are struggling to live? Why, when you are sick, why do you call doctor, physician? Why this tendency? Why you are making research in medical science, opening hospital? Die. Why you are not willing to die? Then what is the answer? He says, "There is no such thing as eternity," but why you are struggling for eternity? Then what is the answer? Hmm?
Bahulāśva: We were telling him that although everything is changing, he was still existing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, existing, but why you are in change? That is the question. "I am existing," that we say, but we are trying to solve the problem of changing. But this changing is not very happy, to die and again accept another body and remain to, in the womb of the mother to develop that body in an airtight condition. So why these foolish persons do not take it as very miserable? And with the risk of being killed by the mother. Nowadays their abortion and killing. So is it very nice life, that you die and you enter into the mother's womb to develop another body? And that also not secure. Is that very nice life? (break) Write many articles on this subject matter and prove them that "You are all fools." (break) ...major problem, they have left aside.
Bahulāśva: The main problem.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. And Kṛṣṇa says, therefore, "These are your real problems: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are intelligent, then you should keep always in your front these problems."
Dharmādhyakṣa: Even you have different levels. Like they can undergraduately study Bhagavad-gītā, but in graduate they can study it more intensely, like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like in general course they select some passages from some books. So we can do that.
Bahulāśva: Yes. We have laid out all your books in this style, just like at a college catalogue. This is all your literatures and then different courses are given there, what subject matter will be covered.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We shall make a program, and it may be approved by the professors, and then we will let them study.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's some questions here.
Prabhupāda: And there should be one practical examination, not only theoretical, but practical. This will be the chanting and following the regulative principles. (laughter) Otherwise it will not be successful. It will be successful. It will take some time. But if they take help of this practical life it will be very easily successful.
Prabhupāda: The name may be different. Just like in our countries we say this flower something. You say something, something. But the subject matter must be the same. Name is not... You can say in a different way, as you understand. But God is one. God cannot be two. You may give Him different names. That is different thing. But God is one. God cannot be two.
Dr. Wolfe: We may assume, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that God has innumerable names.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Wolfe: And most of them not known to us. If we can say "most" about innumerable.
Prabhupāda: You can... Then you know from us. We can... There is Viṣṇu-sahasra-nāma. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu also. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktiḥ. Nāma... Nāma means the name and the person. There are many hundreds and thousands of names, and each name is as good as the person. Because it is absolute, there is no difference between the person and the person's name.
Dr. Wolfe: But there are many aspects of God, of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.
Brahmānanda: On the news?
Prabhupāda: No, no, the television. The lawyers were trying to prove handprints and so many things. The subject matter was that a drug-addicted boy killed a friend. Hm? (pause) What is this, some stool?
Jayatīrtha: This? It appears to be a leaf of some kind.
Prabhupāda: Oh, leaf.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in a purport in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you say that even fifty years ago in India the householders had separate apartments for the men and women.
Prabhupāda: Not apartment, quarter.
Devotee: Separate quarters in the apartment. And the husband would not see his wife during the day?
Prabhupāda: No.
Makhanlal: So is this the standard we should develop in our movement?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. The example is the butter and fire should be kept separate as far as... Otherwise the butter will melt. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). The butter and..., means man and woman. A man is butter, and woman is fire. So this is restricted even the man happens to be father, brother or son. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā. People cannot think of sex impulse in the presence of daughter, mother or sister. But śāstra says "No. There is possibility." Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā na vivaktāsane vaset: "They should not be kept, should not sit together." Then people may say, "This is impossible. Maybe some tenth-class rascal may be attracted." So the next line says, "No," vidvāṁśāpi karṣati, "it is not the question of tenth-class rascal; even first-class learned, he may be attracted." Not to speak of tenth-class rascal, but first-class learned may be. Not may be. It is a... Balavān indriya-grāmo vidvāṁśāpi karṣati: "The senses are so strong that it can mislead even the most learned scholar."
Prabhupāda: We are speaking of religion. Religion means to know God and to love God. So does the Christian-Jewish religious system deny this? Then where is the difference? If Christian religion is meant for understanding God and try to love Him, the same thing we are preaching. The same thing, Jewish religion may be preaching. And where is that religion who denies the supremacy of God? What is that religion? Is there any religion in the world who denies the supremacy of God? We say, "Religion means the laws given by God." This is our definition. Therefore we must know what is God, what are His orders, and we must carry out the order and what is the end of carrying out such orders. If we try to understand these three or four things, then we are religious. If there is no attempt to understand what is God and what is His order and how we are acting, what is the goal of our life, then where is religion? That is not religion. Religion means these four principles: What is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, and act accordingly and achieve the goal of life. This is religion. So any religious system which does not consider all these things, that is not religion. That has been explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Religion means these things, wherever these things are there, that is religion, these enquiries. This is the subject matter of Vedānta-sūtra, where it is said, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now the human life is meant for enquiring about the Supreme." So that is religion.
Prabhupāda: Everything will be polished if Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is taken. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If this God consciousness is spread, then everyone will be brilliantly qualified. And without God consciousness, the so-called education as we were discussing in the morning, there is no value in it. Simply they are talking. What is the subject matter we were talking?
Bahulāśva: Psychology this morning.
Prabhupāda: The result is the students are falling down from the tower in disappointment. And they are protected with glass.
Bahulāśva: In the bell tower on Berkeley campus students in the 60's would jump from that tower to kill themselves. So they put glass there to stop the students from jumping. So Prabhupāda was explaining that is their education, that after getting their education, they have to jump to commit suicide. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: This is not education. Vidyā dadhāti namratā. Educated means he is humble, gentle, sober, full of knowledge, practical application in life of knowledge, tolerant, control of the mind, control of the senses. That is education. What is this education?
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?
Rādhā-vallabha: Well, it seems that they're complaining that people are depending on faith for their knowledge. So their claim is that "We do not depend on this faith. We simply take a group of facts, and from these facts, this strong body of facts, we develop a theory which will explain them."
Prabhupāda: Theory is not faith? Theory is not faith?
Jayādvaita: They say that the theory, it's simply an idea of how it could happen.
Prabhupāda: That is faith.
Jayādvaita: But they don't believe the theory until they think they have sufficient facts.
Prabhupāda: That is faith, I dare say, blind faith.
Prabhupāda: I say (?) "Fox, go to the forest. (laughter) And cry there." Yes, we treat them as foxes and jackals, that's all, not even human beings. Why they waste time in this way and people are enamored by them? That is... Just like you were talking about space meeting. What they have gained out of it? And people are enamored to talk about them, write in the newspaper or make a subject matter. And then all of a sudden death comes, "Get out," finished. You see? How foolish they are. So, Hayagrīva prabhu, how you are feeling?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hayagrīva.
Prabhupāda: How you are feeling?
Hayagrīva: Oh, fine, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't talk nonsense. Whomever you meet, if you want to become a leader and talk something, talk Kṛṣṇa-kathā, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'..., what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then satisfy your ambition to become a talker. Otherwise, you rascal, remain a talker only. You talk only; you get nothing. If you want to utilize your talking power, then talk what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Then your life will be successful. And if you talk foolishly, then you will be revealed as a rascal. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāsate: "A rascal fool is so long beautiful as long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, then he is revealed that he is a rascal." So don't talk this.
Prabhupāda: Nonviolence. These are the first three steps toward the path of knowledge, and who is practicing this? Nobody is practicing. You are professor of?
Professor: Yes, I'm an instructor, yes.
Devotee: What subject matter?
Professor: In religious studies.
Prabhupāda: What is your definition of religion?
Professor: My definition of religion? I think religion has mostly to do with the kinds of questions people ask. Religion is the attempt to answer questions about "Who am I? and "Who is God?" and "How do I relate to God?"
Prabhupāda: That is nice. That is the meaning. So do the people in general know what is God?
Professor: People in general... Today most people have an idea, but they don't all agree. So you can't say that they all have an idea of God. But they all believe they do.
Prabhupāda: No, believing is different thing. You can believe anything. But God is one. So God is there, you believe or not believe. Just like the president of your state is there. One may say, "I don't believe in him." That does not mean there is no president. Similarly, a foolish man can say that there is no God, but that does not mean there is no God. There is God. Now who is that God?
Prabhupāda: For advertising?
Dhanañjaya: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?
Dhanañjaya: Well, he made a design of the front of the temple, and he put underneath, "Come and stay at the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma āśrama for..."
Prabhupāda: "Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple," not "āśrama."
Dhanañjaya: "Temple." All right. "And become..." Something like, "and become enlightened with transcendental knowledge," something like that. He's explaining briefly.
Prabhupāda: He... What does he know? He'll explain? He is explaining. What does he know. He'll explain?
Dhanañjaya: Tejas has written.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That Rājasabhā.
Prabhupāda: Hindi. (Hindi) You read it thoroughly and you explain it either in English or Hindi, as you think befitting to your friends. So we have got so many literatures in French language. We are also asking some men from Europe. That will create some impression. Yes. White elephant. (laughter) Dancing. Everyone will purchase ticket. Yes. (Hindi) Bring some white elephant. So literature is there. But one thing is that you must be placed in sadācāra, well behaved. So you have to sacrifice, especially your long hair. And if you sacrifice your hair, we can export it and get some money. (laughter) Because in Western countries they want these hairs to make wigs. Yes. So just... (Hindi) As they have been trained up to rise early in the morning, this will give you spiritual strength. If you simply becomes a gramophone speaker, then it will not be effective. Gramophone or tape record speaker, that will not be. You must be live speaker. Your living condition should be spiritually, what is called, surcharged. So that means you must be trained up how to rise early in the morning, take your bath, cleanse yourself, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Then you will be spiritually strong. When you are spiritually strong, if you speak something on spiritual subject matter, then it will be effective. Otherwise it will be just like tape record playing. So this is required. And you should... You are asking something?
Prabhupāda: Then? Why you are asking me? You do not know. So everyone does not know what is meditation, and they talk very much, "meditation." This is going on. These bluffers, they say "meditation," but what is the subject matter of meditation they do not know. Simply bogus propaganda. You see?
Faill: Not even beginning to get people thinking right?
Prabhupāda: No. Meditation means this dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, mind saturated with God consciousness and thinking of God. But if you do not know God, then where is the meditation?
Faill: So it's a long...
Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But Arjuna is fighting for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, no... You try one point. Arjuna's fighting is... That is all right. So what is your question? The subject matter was different. Now you jump over to another. Why?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (1): So everything is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. This understanding, that soul is different from the body, it is meant for the dhīra, not for the adhīra. There are two classes men, dhīra and adhīra. So adhīra
means busy fool, and dhīra means lazy intelligent. But our, this movement is meant both for the dhīra and adhīra. Adhīra. We can make them really human beings. Never mind he is dhīra or adhīra. It is so nice movement. Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī dhīrādhīra priyau. It is very pleasing both for the dhīras and adhīras. Why not? What we are doing? We invite people, "Please come here. Chant, dance, and take prasāda." So both the dhīras and adhīras, they will be attracted. Dhīrādhīra priya. (break) You cannot make everyone dhīra; that is not possible. There is necessity of adhīra also. That is also... But it should be guided by the dhīra.
Prabhupāda: So who, who put all this energy there? Where from nitrogen came?
Jñāna: That they don't know.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. They do not know, something, and they are speaking on the subject matter. Is it not nonsense?
Harikeśa: We know there's no life on the sun because we can look at a fire here and we see there's no life.
Prabhupāda: But you are blind. You have no eyes to see.
Harikeśa: Well we have our instruments and we look through...
Prabhupāda: So what is the use of it? Anything made by rascal, is that perfect?
Harikeśa: Well it's better than some mythological book!
Prabhupāda: No, book also, you write book and you want to believe, others your book. That is also book. Why do you write scientific book?
Prabhupāda: Samāṣṭi, sama and aṣṭi together makes samaṣṭi. If you become devotee, I become devotee, everyone becomes.... Then samaṣṭi, devotee. And if you are nondevotee, I'm a nondevotee, then.... Combination of nondevotees. That's all. We have to therefore change this group, where we shall live. Satāṁ prasanga mama virya sambhava bhavānti nitkarma. (indistinct) If you live with the devotees, then these topics of transcendental subject matter becomes palatable. Otherwise it is nonpalatable. Therefore they do not like to come to the temple to hear our lecture. Nonpalatable.
Dr. Patel: You fire them! (raucous laugh)
Prabhupāda: No. How can I say anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is.... Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamā māyayāpahṛta-jñānā (BG 7.15). So we have got this test: if anyone has no interest in Kṛṣṇa, he must be with these groups, that's all. Duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yare dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa' (CC Madhya 7.128). So how can I violate?
Harikeśa: So actually everything.... All the arguments they bring up is simply the material thesis. There is no antithesis 'cause.... Just like hot and cold. Hot is...
Prabhupāda: No. They're seeking—the same example—the enjoyable thing, on the platform of shell of the coconut, fibers of the coconut. They do not know that within the shell, within the fiber, there is coconut. That they do not know. You said two sides. But they do not know the other side. They only know the one side, the body. There will be synthesis when there are two. But they have no two. They simply one subject matter, the body, and that is useless struggle. It is just like Māyāvādīs. Neti neti: "Not this, not this. Not this, not this." Therefore they advocate revolution, that something is going on for some days; again revolution. That means "Not this." Neti neti. The experiment says.... Experiment. Everyone is doing that. They are trying to derive happiness through some system or idea of adjustment, but it becomes spoiled and useless after some time. Therefore they say another revolution required.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Mahamsa: That is like Dr. Frog's philosophy when they speculate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply speculation. So that kind of discussion, what is the value?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's always a hypothesis.
Prabhupāda: If some children discuss some serious subject matter, what is the value? And they are all children in the cradle of nature, that's all. Prakṛteḥ kriya.... Therefore it is word, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Just like children—"Ha! Sit down here"—he has to sit down. Then where is his freedom to discuss? Prakṛti says that "You sit down here. Don't go there." He has to accept. Then what is the value of discussion?
Acyutānanda: Mainly, these Karl Marx, they were angry at the Christian church for exploiting the poor masses, and that's the reason...
Prabhupāda: This is our...
Acyutānanda: ...so he has attacked. He has taken vengeance on this.
Prabhupāda: That they are doing. Still they are doing. Just like you said, some sprinkling water. They have no philosophy and they violate everything, what is stated there in Bible. Now you say that "Thou shall not kill;" they say, "Thou shall not murder." They are molding. Now this homosex they are sanctioning, man-to-man marriage. They are sanctioning abortion.
Prabhupāda: Almost everyone, because they do not know what is the subject matter of teaching. The subject matter of teaching is beginning with this understanding, that life is different from matter. That is the beginning, ABCD. So if your basic knowledge is wrong, then what is the use of going further? It is all false knowledge.
Mike Barron: So there are a lot of these people who do that, false knowledge?
Prabhupāda: That is.... That you have to consider, that it is a fact. And the yoga system is meant.... This is the real yoga system, that because we are on the false understanding, identifying with the body, so the bodily function should be controlled, and concentration or focus should be placed: "What is that living condition?" That is yoga or meditation, to find out what is the real.... Analyze this body and find out where is the living pulse. And that is real yoga system, to control the senses. The senses are working. Now we are getting knowledge through the senses. How to get this knowledge of the living force? That, a mechanical arrangement, that is called yoga system.
Prabhupāda: Just like the living force within the body, that is the most important thing, similarly, throughout this creation, cosmic manifestation, Kṛṣṇa is the most important thing.
Mike Barron: Are you happy with the way the Kṛṣṇa movement is progressing throughout the world and particularly throughout Australia?
Prabhupāda: Well, we are progressing very slow because the subject matter is so difficult that even big, big scientists, big, big professors, they are puzzled. So you cannot expect. But those who are fortunate and.... They are understanding. So this progress, we cannot expect a mass people will understand immediately, but if one person understands, he can act very tremendously to educate the people on this matter. Just like the example is that to illuminate the sky it does not require millions of stars. One moon is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: You should be intelligent. You should know that what is the subject matter of knowledge. Why do you accept so many fools and rascals as guru? First of all you know what is the subject matter of knowledge. Just like if you want to become a carpenter, you should go to an expert carpenter. If you want to be a medical man, here, if you want to become medical man, you must approach the medical college. So first of all, what do you want? You do not know what you want. Therefore you get so many cheaters. You do not know what you want.
Mike Barron: You do agree that there are many people who do try and cheat?
Prabhupāda: No, first of all you agree that there is someone who cheats. First of all you agree that you do not know what is the aim of your life. Do you agree or not?
Mike Barron: I think I know.
Brian Singer: What does.... When you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, does it mean you come into the chapel, or can you lead the sort of life that we lead and still...?
Prabhupāda: No, going to the chapel, that is one of the means, but there are nine different processes, of which, hearing about Kṛṣṇa is the most important thing, śravaṇam. If you continuously hear about Kṛṣṇa. Therefore these books are there, hearing and chanting. If you cannot read, I'll read; you hear. I'll speak. Or you will speak; I'll hear. These two processes are very important. Therefore we are presenting in English language the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa so elaborately. We have published eighty-two books like this. If you read one book.... This is the preliminary study. Then, if you read it with great attention, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious immediately. Then you understand about Kṛṣṇa from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in sixty books, and then you enjoy the transcendental pleasure in Caitanya-caritāmṛta in seventeen books. So you cannot finish even within your life. So many books are there. And you'll forget reading other books.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning arithmetic, mathematic, to a child it is difficult. And "One plus two equal to three, two plus two equal to four," in the beginning it may be difficult for a child, but the subject matter is very easy.
Brian Singer: How does a soul...
Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.
Brian Singer: It's just different method of teaching.
Prabhupāda: No method. Same method. But if you say it, a different method, then we don't mind, but this is the subject matter of study. "Two plus two" is taught by the Christian and the Muslim, the Hindu. "Two plus two equal to four." There is no method of studying. The studying is the same. But if you take that "I'll read 'two plus two' in a Christian school," that is your choice. That's another thing. But wherever you go, "Two plus two equal to four," it is same. You call it Christian or Hindu or Muslim. That's your whims. Science is science. So we are preaching that "You are not this body; you are different from body." So it is equally necessary for the Christian, for the Hindu, for the Australian, for the American, for the African, everyone.
Prabhupāda: First of all you try to understand yourself. Then talk of God. If you do not understand yourself, how you'll understand God? That is a big thing. Try to understand the small thing, that you are not this body. Talk on this subject matter, that as.... When you understand that "I, the proprietor of the body, I am different from this body," then you will understand God also, very easily. Because you are the proprietor of this body and you are given the controlling power of the body by thinking, feeling, willing, by acting.... You have got this body. You are sitting here. You can say, "Now I am going away." The body is under your control. You can do that. Similarly, when you understand this fully, then you'll understand that in this huge, gigantic body, material cosmic manifestation, there is a controller, easily. But if you do not understand yourself, how you can understand God? God is not different in quality than from you. God means like you in huge, unlimited quantity. As you have got little intelligence—you can create a wonderful thing, 747 airplane flying in the air—so God has got unlimited brain. Millions and trillions of universes are floating in the air.
Prabhupāda: Everyone can be devotee.... It is a question to understand that "I am not this body." That is beginning. So a businessman can try to understand, a lawyer can try to understand, or a philosopher can try to under.... Everyone can do that. The real point is, first of all try to understand that you are not this body. So where is the hampering, becoming a businessman or family man or this or that? There is no hampering. We are trained up from the very beginning of our life by our parents. We got the opportunity. And businessman, no businessman, it doesn't matter. Ahaituky apratihatā yayātmā suprasīdati. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo... (SB 1.2.6). Find out this verse. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa conscious is unhampered by anything material. It does not mean that because you are a businessman you cannot be Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. That is not. You may be whatever you are, but you can become Kṛṣṇa conscious at the same time. (break) (devotees offer obeisances) (background talking) So it is not the superexcellency of English language. It is subject matter. Formerly they used to speak in Sanskrit. Therefore it is recorded in Sanskrit language. It can be transferred to any language. The thoughts are there. That is real point. Just like we are translating the thoughts in English, in Spanish, in Portuguese, in French. The real thing is the thought, not the language. But in Sanskrit language you'll find very, very high thoughts. That is because it is very old language.
Brian Singer: Do you find that in the translation from the thoughts and the Sanskrit to the English words, then from the English words to the mass of the people's heads, do you find that there is much loss?
Prabhupāda: No, if you have grasped the thought, that you can express in any language. But if you cannot grasp the thought, then you cannot express. So the.... Our translation is that we have to receive the thoughts as it is by the paramparā system. Therefore it is presented so nicely, and people like it. It is.... It is the value of the subject matter. That we have to receive from authorities. Just like any scientific book, say medical science. You cannot understand medical science by reading the books. It must be received through a medical man. Then it will be clear. Therefore the paramparā system.... Arjuna said, evaṁ paramparā... Kṛṣṇa said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Everything is paramparā. If you receive the knowledge from the authority, then you are in perfect knowledge, simply by..., not by reading the books. Therefore our method is to accept the perfect guru to understand the subject matter. But still, if one reads the books as it is from authorities, there is chance of understanding. Real thing is training. So our institution is training, not only training, full knowledge, practical and theoretical. That is real scientific. If you give up one side, then you can give up the theoretical side, but practical side you cannot give up. Then you'll never come. The two sides, practical and theoretical.... So that is real scientific knowledge. So two sides are presented in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and they are being thoroughly trained up. (pause) Take prasādam. (end)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Now I am confused about my duty and have lost all composure because of weakness. In this condition I am asking You to tell me clearly what is best for me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. So because he accepted discipleship, so He immediately chastised him that "You rascal, you are talking like a very learned man, but you are on the platform of bodily conception of life, the platform of the animals." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who accepts this body as self, he's animal. He's not even a human being. So the whole world is on this bodily concept of life. That is going on. "American," "European," "Hindu," "Muslim," "black," "white," this, that. They do not know what is education. That is the first education, that "You rascal, you are not this body. You are within the body." So who understands this? And they're declaring that "We are student of Bhagavad-gītā. We have studied Bhagavad-gītā." Hmm? Even Gandhi, he takes photograph with Bhagavad-gītā, but his fighting is for nationalism. The others are doing that. So what is the use of taking Bhagavad-gītā? The Pakistanis are also doing that. But you have taken Bhagavad-gītā, you are doing the same work. So what is your credit? This is going on. So nobody is learning Bhagavad-gītā. It is first time that we are teaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Otherwise, everyone is misled. The subject matter is that the soul is different from this body.
Prabhupāda: So same thing: if the pilot is not expert, then goes down to the lowest, finished. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. If the pilot is third class, instead of going up, he goes down, and everything is spoiled. So everything on the pilot. The machine is not important. The machine can go up if the pilot knows how to do it. And the machine can go down. Actually, it is happening. This landing point is very dangerous. If the pilot cannot handle very nicely, immediately smashed. The crash takes place while going up and coming down, generally. That is due to mismanagement of the pilot. When in the sky it is regular speed and balance, it is going nicely. There is no crisis. All crises take place while coming down and going up. Leaving the land and coming the land. I have seen sometimes, they clap as soon as they.... (Prabhupāda claps his hands. Devotees laugh) "The danger is over." So ūrdhvam and adhaḥ. Madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. So in this way, you have to place the subject matter, that the living entity, the soul, is the important thing within this body. Because he's struggling. On account of his ignorance, he's struggling. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is his position.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned earlier that not only we have to find out who is the speaker, but who is the proper person to hear the subject matter.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...provement. Have you improved this, that a dead body can be brought into life by scientific arrangement? And still, they'll say "improvement." What improvement? Simply dry talks, that is science? (break) First subject matter for scientific advancement, that there is soul within the body. On account of the presence of the soul, the body is changing. So the soul is different from the body. So this is the first education of scientist. And they have avoided this major.... They simply bluffing people, "We have discovered this..." What you have discovered? Discover this: What is the principle within the body? Real discovery, they are not interested. They are bluffing. They are fools, making others fools and going on as scientific advancement. First of all answer this.
Prabhupāda: Go-rakṣya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa does not say that don't eat meat. It is not really said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tāmasika, prāmādya (indistinct). But He's speaking of go-rakṣya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the śūdras, and the less than śūdras, they eat. But for them there's lower animals, not cow.
Devotee (3): These people, they think that if someone is inspired by God, then their word is the word of God. Therefore they can write all kinds of things, and they put the label on it that "This was spoken by God through me."
Prabhupāda: Hearing directly from Him. Which one is better? Directly hearing from Him, or by some inspiration?
Devotee (2): Hearing directly, naturally.
Prabhupāda: The thing is, father and mother is always kind. That is natural. Extraordinarily, the mother may kill. That is another thing. Crazy. But if somebody's coming to kill his child, mother gives protection: "First of all kill me." (break) So artistic competition, subject matter was that a child is being killed before the mother, and the artist has to give expression of the face. So different artists gave expression of the face of the mother when the child is being killed before her. So one artist made a picture like this. (holding hands over his eyes) He got the first prize.
Hari-śauri: She couldn't look.
Prabhupāda: He got the first prize. You cannot express what mother's feeling is. Best thing is not to see.
Prabhupāda: They are imitating. You understand people are very expert in this subject matter. They have come.... Learning everything.
Devotee (1): We can't avoid serving.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible.
Rāmeśvara: That's all there is in life, is service.
Prabhupāda: Now we are sitting, so many gentlemen. He's having some paper, and you are serving God. The service is there. Nobody can say, "No, I don't serve anyone." Is there any man? No. That is not possible. You must serve. Constitutionally, you are meant for service, either you are president of the state or is anything. That is your position. That is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). All living entities are eternal servant of God.
Prabhupāda: Technical knowledge is not education.
Devotee (2): No, but I mean, as far as our books are.... We have our techniques for educating society.
Prabhupāda: Oh!
Rāmeśvara: Our program is to distribute the books of the Vedas with our spiritual master's philosophical commentaries. We already discussed a little bit before we came.
Prabhupāda: And all this subject matter, everything, sixty-two books already.
Rāmeśvara: Thank you very much, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Devotee (2): Jaya!
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, this John Lennon, how he dares to photograph naked with his lover? How lowest class man he is, that he has no shame even. And he's also big man. Press reporters go to take his opinion on certain subject matters. They do not know where I am going to take opinion. What is the value of this man? But people are after money. Why? "I have got money." That's all.
Devotee: They hold great sway with the general public as well.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: One of the reasons why they did not want John Lennon to be allowed to stay in the United States is because they said that he had too much influence with the young people.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he spoiled these. They are already spoiled, and (static) that the government has done nice thing. What is his value? But because he has got money (static) popularity, he has become big man.
Prabhupāda: Dismisses the problem? What is that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But he cannot prove that life is made from molecules.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so they no more deal with that subject matter?
Rāmeśvara: Yes, that's their point. That because they cannot prove that life comes from life or that there is transmigration of the soul, therefore they will not consider your challenge because it cannot be proven by empiric means.
Prabhupāda: Why not proven?
Rāmeśvara: They say it cannot be proven...
Prabhupāda: It is proven.
Rāmeśvara: ...by observation.
Prabhupāda: It is observation. That is, a child is growing to another body. So the soul of the child is transferred to another body. What more proof he wants?
Prabhupāda: There are two things. One is your body and the other, the living force which is moving your body. There is no question of decision; it is already decided. There are two things. But our point is that two things are there, the material body and the moving force. So what we are speaking, we are speaking of the living force, moving force, and people in general, they're interested with this body. Therefore our subject matter is little difficult for such common man. We are speaking simply on the subject matter of that living force, what is that living force. Our beginning is from that point, that body is different from the living force. And general people, they do not understand. Although they feel that there is living force something, they say it is chemical combination and so on, so on. But that is not the fact. It is a different commodity, material, or it is not material, spiritual identity which is different from this combination of matter, this body. So it requires little training to understand. Although it is very simple fact, but their brain is very dull, material. They see daily, but still, they propose so many things which is impractical. Just like you said that it is chemical composition and they're trying to do it in future.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to.... Sarva-dharmān—everything to give up, except Kṛṣṇa. It is very difficult. Sarva-dharmān. They are proud if they are little rich. And America is very proud. They are trying to accumulate money, and we are trying.... We say, "Give up this nonsense." Is it very easy thing, that "For Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we shall give up everything, our attempt to earn money"? Nobody will accept it. "Our industry, our trade, our opulence—everything we shall leave?" But the meaning is that. Yes. Who will take it? Jñānīs, yogis, the same thing—"Oh, I am so.... I am great yogi. So many people considers me that I am God, and I shall give up this profession?" Is it possible? Who will do it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is a verse, eta saba chāḍi' āra varṇāśrama-dharma, akiñcana hañā...(?) That's it. Varṇāśrama, even varṇāśrama-dharma one has to give up. (japa—break) ...department asked me, "Swamiji, how long you want to stay here?" (laughs) I said.... I thought that "I have got this sponsoring one month, maybe another month. So two months." I thought, "Two months is a very long duration, because I'll not be able to do anything. As soon as I will put my program, they will be: 'Go away, please.' " I was under this impression. "Let me try." That is the subject matter of the poetry, that "I have no hope. Who will accept this, especially in this country, so much engrossed in materialistic way of life? And I shall say, 'Give up everything.' Who will take it?"
Kīrtanānanda: But they have taken.
Prabhupāda: Supreme mystic.... "If You like, it is possible; otherwise not possible. From calculation it is impossible." That is the subject matter.
Kīrtanānanda: But nobody before you even tried.
Prabhupāda: They came for some money or some reputation or "England-returned." The Bon Mahārāja, this Vivekananda, and all, all these rascals who are coming, that's all. They come for some money and woman, some prestigious position, the material things. For prestigious position, for money, for women, means it is all material. They have no spiritual idea.
Rāmeśvara: This Reverend Moon, he has started a very big movement among Christians. His philosophy is that the mission of Jesus Christ was to have sex life so that there will be perfect children.
Prabhupāda: Just see what nonsense he is.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's trick. Everyone talks of the "We Eastern, we believe in this," and "We Western, we believe in this." You remain peaceful, everyone. Everyone is thinking like this. We have no such thing, Eastern, Western. It is fact. For everyone, it is good. Eastern, Western, we don't take. Several times, this question.... I talk, I spoke in the American Embassy in Calcutta. They gave me the subject matter, "East and West." So I, in the beginning, I began to speak that we have no such dual..., East and West.
Hari-śauri: Hm. It's a higher consciousness.
Prabhupāda: If she can make samosā...
Hari-śauri: With the chewra.
Prabhupāda: No, chewra may be avoided. Samosā. One will do.
Hari-śauri: Either chewra or samosā, or both?
Prabhupāda: No. Either of them.
Prabhupāda: We cannot get many followers. Because everyone is under this impression, "I am this body." And to get him released from this conception is not so easy job. So we cannot expect many thousands and millions. Only selected fortunate people will understand it. But everyone can understand it. It is very simple thing. But the modern education has made them so dull brain, they cannot understand, neither do they try to understand. That is the difficulty. Matter, subject matter, is very simple thing. I am changing bodies, but in spite of my change of body, I am the spirit soul existing. This is the first understanding. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that I am not dead on account of my body being finished. My childhood body is finished, my boyhood body is finished, my youth-hood body is finished, but I am existing. I can remember that I was in such body, I was in such body, in such circumstances. When I was a child I was talking like this, I was jumping like this. But because that body is finished, I cannot do that. Now I have got a different body, I cannot jump like a child. This simple truth. But I know that I was jumping. That is not dream, that's a fact. But we are educated in such a foolish way that we cannot understand this simple truth. That has to be amended. Otherwise, there is no question of enlightenment in the human society.
Prabhupāda: Anyone we can accept. If he is interested to become learned in this subject matter, he's welcome.
Kathy Kerr: Can a person follow your movement, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, without necessarily going into a temple and concentrating on your attentions?(?)
Jayādvaita: It's a kind of education. So to get that education you have to go to the institution. If you want to get an education in chemistry you go to college. Not that you have to.... It's not.... Yes, you have to come to the place where this is being taught. It doesn't mean you have to give up everything, but you have to take education from the recognized authority.
Kathy Kerr: Does it ever end?
Jayādvaita: No, no. In Bhagavad-gītā it's described as avyayam. It means there's no end of it. More and more.
Devotee (1): But living in the temple is not necessary to engage in Kṛṣṇa conscious activities. You can engage outside also, take advantage of reading the books and visiting the temple, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Kathy Kerr: Do you consider that going..., your movement then is basically more of an educational movement than a religious movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Educational. It is religious, but it is not a man-made religious. Our idea.... I have already explained that our idea of religion means that like the sugar, it must be sweet. It is not that in Europe sugar is not sweet, in India it is sweet. Sugar, wherever it is, it is sweet. Similarly, the soul, the spirit soul is the same everywhere. So he, the spirit soul, is now embodied within this material body, and he is suffering on account of this material body. So we are teaching everyone how to get out of this material body and stay in his original, spiritual body. This is our real movement. This is another way..., another name is liberation. We are suffering within this body. Our suffering means on account of this body. So if there is such science how to continue our life without changing body, that science we are teaching. It is purely educational.
Prabhupāda: Paṇḍita, if you can speak very vehemently, any subject matter, people may or may not understand, and they will certify you: "Oh, this man is very learned." "What you have learned from him?" "Oh, I could not understand, but he's spoke very nicely." He spoke very nicely. What is that nicely? That cāpala. (Prabhupāda speaks some gibberish) You go on speaking like that, (devotees laugh) and people will appreciate, "Oh, he's a big speaker!" What have you learned from him? Then?
Pradyumna: Anadhyataivasādhutve sādhutve dambha eva tu.
Prabhupāda: And if you are poor man, then you are not honest. That is the criterion. "Oh, here is a..." When the poor man comes, you'll not give place at your place. If he wants to stay, you'll refuse, "No." Because he's poor, he's immediately accepted as dishonest. He may be honest or dishonest, but poverty is a sign for accepting a man as dishonest.
Prabhupāda: There is the question. (devotees laugh) but their reality is dog's race, and our reality is to advance in self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is difference. Therefore karmīs have been described as mūḍha, asses. Asses. And asses, why the example is given to the asses? Because the ass works very hard. It loads on the back tons of cloth of the washerman, and the washerman in return gives him little morsel of grass, and he stands at the door of the washerman, eats the grass, again loading. But he has no sense that "If I go out of these clutches of washerman I can get grass anywhere. Why I am loading so much?" The karmīs are like that. They're busy in the office, very busy. If you want to see him, "I am very busy now." (laughter) So what is your result of busy? "Now, I take two pieces of toast and one cup of tea. That's all." (laughter) And for this purpose you are so busy? He does not know why he's busy. Because in the books he's finding, "Now, the balance was one thousand million dollars, now it has become two thousand," that his satisfaction. But he will eat two pieces of bread and one cup of tea. When it was one million dollars, when it was two million dollars. But still he'll work hard. This is called karmī. Asses. Work like asses, without any aim of life. This is asses. Mūḍha. But Vedic civilization is different. The accusation is not correct. They are not lazy. They are busy for higher subject matter.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is smṛti more than just rules of conduct?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Smṛti means... The Vedas are considered as, taken as śruti. But simply by hearing one cannot understand. Therefore smṛtis, they have explained. Purayati iti purāṇa. Complete. The Vedic mantra is not always understood. Just like the Vedānta mantra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is very short cut. But Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Explanation. The smṛti is explanation. So either you take śruti or smṛti, subject matter is the same. But these are the evidences. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā (BRS 1.2.101). You cannot be purified or become actually God conscious without reference to the śruti-smṛti. We are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not whimsically. It is based on śruti-smṛti-pāñcarātriki-vidhi. Therefore it is becoming effective.
Prabhupāda: Jñāna, what is jñāna? Jñāna means... That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So unless one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, there is no jñāna. This is all nonsense. And they're passing as jñāna. There is no knowledge at all. Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge. So ultimate knowledge, the subject matter of ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa, God. So if one does not know who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa, then where is knowledge? This is fact, the knowledge, but if a rascal claims that "I am man of knowledge," then what can be done? Knowledge is explained, that when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When one understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything, then that is knowledge. Before that, there is no knowledge. It is simply misunderstanding. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). One may begin with impersonal Brahman by the speculative method or one can realize the, what is called, Paramātmā, localized aspect. That is the secondary stage. The final stage is understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa.
Kīrtanānanda: Court jester.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Court jesters, yes. So there was a man, court jester, in Bengal. So the Muhammadan governor asked one Gopal Bhan, jester... He was jester in the court of Raja Krishna Chandra. So he asked him, Nawab, that "Gopal Bhan, I have heard you are very expert. Can you write a similar book, Mahābhārata, about my kingdom?" (laughter) "Oh, yes. Why not?" That is not... So he took some hundred thousands of rupees and again come: "Give me another ten thousand," "Another ten," in this way. "When the book will be finished? You have taken so much money." "It is just on the verge of being finished." Then, when he saw that no more money can be taken—"I have taken so much money"—then he one day said that "Now, sir, one information is very essential. That is wanted. You give me, and the Mahābhārata will be finished. Everything is there." "What is that information?" "Now, your wife, how many husband she has got?" "This is nonsense!" "Eh? Well, that is the main subject matter of Mahābhārata. Draupadī had five husbands, so you are such a great person, your wife must have at least one dozen. Otherwise how Mahābhārata will...?" "It is the subject matter of?" "Yes, that is the only subject matter, that Draupadī had five husbands. So you are such a big nawab, your wife must at least have one dozen. So give me their names." So he became very angry, "Don't talk all this nonsense." "Then I cannot finish your Mahābhārata." "I have already invested..." So he took another ten thousand rupees, and he said, "Stop all this nonsense. That's all right." So these rascals, they are writing Gopal Bhan's Mahābhārata, and the rascal government is paying them.
Darby: So many people call themselves Christians, they still try to deny God.
Prabhupāda: Not only Christians, the whole world is now like that. Religion has become a subject matter of laughing. If one is God conscious, religious, he is considered fool number one, not very much advanced. Especially the scientists, the rascal scientists. And they'll bluff you in so many ways, that life is produced from chemicals. When we challenge them that "You make a little egg with chemicals and put it in the incubator and let life come," what will be the answer? The so-called scientist who says that life is made by combination of chemicals? Anyone can see the composition of egg, a little white and yellow substance. There are many chemicals, they are all white, and there are many chemicals yellow also. Combine together and put it in the incubator and see whether chicken is coming or not. And still they will assert, write big, big books, that life is coming out of chemicals. And people are accepting this bluff. So it is very precarious condition of present world. People want to be bluffed and there are many bluffers. And they are satisfied that "I am bluffed by a big bluffer." That's all. This is going on.
Prabhupāda: It is very popular amongst the Māyāvāda people. You speak also... Now the so-called Vedantists they are speaking on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, distorting. Akhoyananda, Akandananda, Karpatri, the rascals. Because they have no subject matter to speak, they are distorting the meaning of Bhāgavata. This boy appears to be nice, this fat boy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Kīrtanānanda said he's the only local boy who has taken interest. He's from hereabouts.
Prabhupāda: He said that "I've wanted to see you since a long time." So, keep friendship with... Giving them prasādam?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda Swami cut up some watermelon, and we distributed it to the guests.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, shall I lock this up?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. (end)
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The difficulty in this Christian aspect is that they claim that it was created about five thousand years ago. That is the reason why we want to bring up this...
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (laughter)
Rūpānuga: These Creationists preach that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Creationists.
Rūpānuga: Gish(?) preaches that? Five thousand years ago, literally? Do we want to make this comparison, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or not?
Prabhupāda: Why you are going to fight with them?
Prabhupāda: That economic development. Our ācāryas, practically in Indian civilization, there are so many books of knowledge, but there is no recommendation for starting big, big factories for economic development. You'll find Vyāsadeva has written so many books, each book so valuable, instructive, but still he was condemned. Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), he dealt with these four subject matter, but not bhakti. Therefore Nārada Muni chastised him, that "You have wasted your time, simply writing on the subject matter of dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, catur varga." Then, under his instruction, he wrote Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam simply on the glories of the Supreme Lord, without any attempt to write anything about dharma artha kāma mokṣa. In the beginning he introduces, gives introduction to his book, dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra śrīmad-bhāgavate (SB 1.1.2), in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, they are all kaitavas, cheating. These things are thrown away. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). So this kaitava, Śrīdhara Swami gives his commentary, atra mokṣa-vāñchan paryantaṁ nirastam. The desire for liberation is also rejected. Simply devotional service to the Lord. That is only business.
Prabhupāda: They say! What they say, they have no value. Because if it is a fact that one can understand God through bhakti, so whatever bhakta says, that is value. What a nonsense says, it has no value. It has no value. "They say." First of all, you have to think what they are. Are they speculator or bhakta? Just like beginning of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa said bhakto 'si, "I am talking to you Bhagavad-gītā because you are My bhakta." So it is the subject matter..., bhagavān is the subject matter for the bhakta, not for others. Others, they will speculate only. They will never understand what is Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (3) (Indian man): Yesterday you said:
- yadā yadā hi dharmasya
- glānir bhavati bhārata
- abhyutthānam adharmasya
- tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
- (BG 4.7)
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is dharmasya glānir. That those who are not bhaktas, speculators, they are talking of God. This is dharmasya glānir. How they can talk of God? They cannot talk. Even they are talking, that is misleading, because nobody can talk of God unless you are devotee of God. You see? Bhakto 'si. Fourth Chapter. The subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā is to be understood by a bhakta, not by a speculator.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This young boy guru, when they bring up this subject matter to the Indians who have come from India who are working here in America, they feel a little embarrassed, loss for words or explanation what to say, that this is their Indian culture, they feel they don't know how to represent themselves.
Mr. Deyani: How to represent the Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This is my question. How to represent it? What to say to them?
Prabhupāda: What is your question? That means you do not know about him.
Mr. Deyani: We don't know about those gurus...
Prabhupāda: You say "I do not know about him," that's all. The simple truth that "I do not know about it." Why you are very serious about him? It is not very important matter.
Prabhupāda: It is made complex to serve some purpose.
Rūpānuga: It keeps the living entity forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. It makes māyā for the living entity; he forgets Kṛṣṇa with all the complexities.
Prabhupāda: Physically, everything is being done by heat and light. So fire is heat and light. The fire is not complex, heat and light but with heat and light everything is going on. You have physical subject matter of study, heat and light?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because everything is being conducted by heat and light.
Hari-śauri: So the living entity's desire has become very complex due to his association with material nature?
Prabhupāda: He does not desire. He desires, and the matter helps. In the material world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That desire is simple?
Prabhupāda: Desire is simple, that is his... Otherwise, without desire, how he is living? You make minus desire, then how it is living? That is only symptom of his living.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is our conclusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The position of conditioned soul is that he must commit mistake, and he's illusioned, and his senses are imperfect, and he wants to cheat. Everyone speaks something. You know that he has no perfect knowledge in the subject matter, still he wants to speak something. That means he wants to cheat. This is going on. And then after some years somebody says, "No, it was not correct." That means he cheated. The former scientists or philosophers cheated.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Why ask?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no perfect knowledge and he proposed something and now it is incorrect. And the man who is correcting, he's also a cheater. This is going on, this is their paramparā system. One cheater, another cheater, another cheater. So why shall I believe the cheaters?
Devotee (1): They've convinced us by their machines.
Prabhupāda: That machine means, their machine. Again you are bringing the same argument. What is value of machine? The machine is made by a cheater. Imperfect senses, how it is perfect?
Prabhupāda: Do it, do it.
Yadubara: Because their book, subject matter of the book is directly along those lines.
Prabhupāda: They say from chemicals, but if you prove that chemicals also come from life...
Devotee: Yeah.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They got some experiments that we want to do, on purely scientific level...
Prabhupāda: You can do it, it is a fact. You can do it, you'll be successful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, there are some experiments that we can do. They have been doing some experiments last three or four months to supplement...
Prabhupāda: So you say, in the history these are two problems...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh yeah, these are the greatest...
Prabhupāda: So we have trust these two points.
Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give... They think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant, it cannot be vacant. We do not find any part of the world vacant. There is living entities. This earth planet is part of the universe, and the moon is also part of the universe. If it is not vacant, how that can be vacant? You have got dust there, we have got dust here; you have got rocks there, here we have got rocks. And why it is vacant? We find in the dust also there is life. When we walk on the beach, it is simply sand, there are so many crabs. They are immediately flying, running, "Here is a man coming. Enter into the hole." So even the dust, in the sand, there is life. So why not there? In the water there is life, within the sand there is life, in the air there is life, everywhere there is life. Why it should be vacant? Hmm? What is the opinion of the scientists? How...? We are layman, talking like layman, but why there should not be life? And in the śāstra we get there is life. Not only moon, every planet is full of living entities. Jagat-kīrṇa(?). There is human being, there is animal, everything. How it can be vacant, God's creation?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they cannot see.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Sharma: I bring all the Indian people I can, because I know, I am a scientist, I still believe in God.
Prabhupāda: What is your subject matter?
Dr. Sharma: I have four doctorates in four different areas.
Prabhupāda: Oh?
Dr. Sharma: I have a Ph.D. in chemistry, a Ph.D. in biochemistry, a Doctor of Science in clinical endocrinology. I have a Fellow of the Royal Institute of Chemistry of London, which is a higher Ph.D. I am in computer information and control engineering...
Prabhupāda: Royal College of... That... What is is called?
Dr. Sharma: Royal Institute of Chemistry, London. And I have a law degree. And I am in computer information and control engineering.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) You are such a big man. Kindly join us and help us.
Prabhupāda: Now here is Dr. Sharma. He is Ph.D. in four subject matters, and he is a lawyer, so he's very highly qualified man, and he wants to give his all aid so that...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we need his help.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And he is convinced about our bonafideness of this movement. So by his example many other qualified Indians... And it is the business of the Indian. It is Indian culture. They are accepting. Present them most scientifically, and it will be a glory of India.
Dr. Sharma: It is up to us to bring Kṛṣṇa's words now...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Sharma: ...to the world. He wanted us to do.
Prabhupāda: Yes, kindly do that. So you talk with him in detail how to, if you..., whether our, this branch will be situated... They say here it is good?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: For Institute? Yes... I am also going to Boston to see the facility there.
Prabhupāda: But he can write. He give you.
Prabhupāda: Sa-vijñānam.
Hari-śauri: That's the name of the paper.
Prabhupāda: And other scientists have joined. Scientist in four subject matters, an Indian gentleman.
Hari-śauri: I think he's here now.
Prabhupāda: He's here? He has come?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's his name?
Hari-śauri: Sharma.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. Different one.
Hari-śauri: This one has four Ph.D.s.
Prabhupāda: He has got some international name. So he says that "It's great fortune I have met you." He's now realizing his mistakes. He has still some respect for Vivekananda; that I did not disturb; he might misunderstand. Actually this Vivekananda rascal, what he has done? What is his contribution?
Prabhupāda: Now there are so many rascals in this dress of sannyāsī, they are eating meat. That is going on. They say, "What is the wrong of eating meat? Can eat." They eat meat. Then?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "The subject matter has already been discussed in the conversation between Lord Caitanya and Maulana Chand Kazi Shaheb. The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from the unrestricted animal killing in the slaughterhouse."
Prabhupāda: There, your question.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Because the asuras, or the so-called scholars of Vedic..."
Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some people think that by meditating they can somehow, another ignore...
Prabhupāda: Meditating means this subject matter: that I don't want death, why death is forced upon me? That is real meditation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the problems of life are more than simply those which we perceive?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, what is the meditation? Think about something seriously, that is meditation. But if you have no important serious thinking, simply some imagination, how it will help you?
Devotee (1): Excuse me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This evening they are having one convention here, the Democratic National Convention. One of the two big political parties in the city, at one place called Madison Square Garden. And all the television and newspaper people in the whole country will be there. They're beginning at 8 o'clock this evening. So we want to send all the devotees in the temple on saṅkīrtana party there, because we feel that not only will the atmosphere become purified but also all the television cameras and all the newspaper people will interview our devotees and take their pictures, and they will be on television all over the country, simply because...
Prabhupāda: That is good cause.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is intelligent class, belonging to the in..., he cannot understand. So we don't expect that everyone is intelligent. Kṛṣṇa ye bhaja se baḍa catura. Unless one is very intelligent, he cannot become Kṛṣṇa conscious, because it is a different subject matter. People are engrossed with the bodily concept of life. It is beyond that. So dull brain cannot understand what is beyond this body. So you cannot expect that everyone will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible.
Interviewer: There has been a lot of talk of genetic perfection of mankind, or, say, attempting a genetic perfection.
Prabhupāda: What is genetic?
Interviewer: What is genetic perfection?
Bali-mardana: We were discussing yesterday about the science of genetics. They try to understand the traits, how the body and mind are formed, and then try to change it.
Prabhupāda: That we have already... Where is that book?
Rāmeśvara: Svarūpa Dāmodara's book.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bring.
Prabhupāda: That is the sign of love. That is in material field also. There are so many philosophers, scientists and artists, they have done out of love for their subject matter, not for payment. That is love.
Bali-mardana: But aren't they also purified spiritually by doing this?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This spiritual realization means the more you give service to God, you become spiritually profited, in any way.
Interviewer: What are some of the other, aside from...? I mean, I see people selling things. What other practices are involved?
Prabhupāda: Then you stay one day, whole day and night, and see practically, from morning four o'clock to night ten o'clock, how we are engaged in different practices.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But very vague, not dressed as devotees, strictly cultural.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Cultural. They should... Deity worship one of the items. Otherwise it is called bhāgavata and pañcarātra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I felt that it should be done in a very modern American style but very cultural with Vedic subject matter. Then gradually they would appreciate it. As well as the library party. If the library party, Satsvarūpa is thinking to go all over the world now, if they go to Japan they are expecting a good reception in Japan, that will be another advantage if your books are accepted by the professors there. I thought that a cultural presentation...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We have to somehow or another get the local people to join there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well that's the way, see they're not going to join as Hare Kṛṣṇas because of the bad publicity. They're not going to join like that. You have to have a different method.
Prabhupāda: What is this church, big church.
Prabhupāda: That is, we are contributing. People are in ignorance about his own identification, who is he. He's thinking he's dead body. That is misconception.
Interviewer: There's no way to identify the driver of the car then.
Bali-mardana: No, no.
Prabhupāda: Just see it is so difficult subject matter. I am speaking to you, still you feel difficulty. It is little difficult subject matter. We say the car and driver, if you understand this analogy, the car and the driver, so who is important? The driver is important, the car is important. Both combined together giving a service, the car is moving. But if they are separated, who is important, the car is important or the driver is important?
Interviewer: I don't know how I'm going to get the point you're making there across. If the car and the driver are separated, the car is useless and the driver is a person. The driver is always important.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, driver is always important. Within the car or without the car.
Interviewer: Within or without the car, and if he's a chauffeur driving a carload of people then he becomes less important, the people are primarily the ones that are important, that are in the car. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: First of all try to understand the car is moving with the help of the driver. So the driver and the car they are always different identity. So when the car is dead, the driver do not work with the car, but the driver is important within the car or without the car.
Prabhupāda: We do not belong either to the Hindus or Christian or Jewish. We belong to Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa means God.
Interviewer: Yeah, but you use the Hindu scriptures.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Just like we say the sun, sūrya and you say the sun, the "sun." But the subject matter is the same. You say the sun in the sky as s-u-n, "sun." And we say in India sūrya. S-ū-r-y-a. So the name may be different but the object is the same.
Interviewer: In other words, do you think the India-originated religion is, serves its particular purpose in the Western society? I mean, does, is it of particular value in a rather technological society, the Hindu tradition?
Prabhupāda: Generally speaking, everywhere, everyone everywhere is identifying his body as the self. It does not mean East or West. This is ignorance. Wherever there is ignorance one identifies himself with the body. This is ignorance. It may be in the East or in the West. It doesn't matter.
Interviewer: Well, can a self exist without a body?
Prabhupāda: No. Self can exist without body.
Prabhupāda: That, how can I say? That is your subject matter. You study both of them and see and give your judgement.
Interviewer: What is your view? Are there other paths to spirit consciousness?
Prabhupāda: There is, but not very elaborate.
Interviewer: There are but not very what?
Bali-mardana: Elaborate, scientific.
Prabhupāda: Not very elaborate.
Interviewer: Not very good?
Prabhupāda: Not very elaborate.
Bali-mardana: Elaborate.
Interviewer: Well is Kṛṣṇa consciousness very elaborate?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you have been in the GBC meeting?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, I was earlier.
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We discussed Jagadīśa Prabhu's request to primarily attend his engagement with Gurukula, and we also discussed Satsvarūpa Gosvāmī's desire to attend primarily Library Party.
Prabhupāda: It is good proposal.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: We discussed various difficulties that have been happening in Australia, and that Tamāla Kṛṣṇa should go there and help for..., just for visit, just to help. And then they will report to you.
Prabhupāda: What is Iran's business going on? I got some good report from Nandarāṇī that she is in contact with the Shah's daughter, princess. Is that a fact?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, Nandarāṇī Prabhu is doing very well. She's got a Gurukula, a school for the Indian children, they are being well attended. Also Mahārāja, Parivrājakācārya Svāmī, he has been in touch with the Shah's daughter and he's been preaching to them.
Prabhupāda: Shah's son-in-law is interested, I have heard.
Hari-śauri: Like that man from the Associated Press. You forced him to stay on those two analogies until he understood. For ten minutes you explained that, the car and the driver, until it finally got through to him. Then when he finally had some realization of it, then you again gave him another analogy about breaking the bricks in the prison. And again you forced him to stay on the same subject matter. And he..., you do it in such a way that they think that they're asking very good questions from their own intelligence. Actually, you've already captured them.
Harikeśa: It's like taming wild animals. The perfect animal trainer. (laughing)
Prabhupāda: He said that breaking the bricks is the business. I said the sooner you give up this, then you are happy. Karmīs, the karmīs want this, breaking the bricks. They think this is civilization. Brick, more brick, and bring more bricks and break it. That is civilization.
Prabhupāda: Once Sarasvatī said that "We have no sex with woman." (laughter) So, innocent, she does not know. That is, if they are kept separate, they remain innocent. And they are taught that all women should be addressed as mother. Whatever self-control. And female children should be taught how to become faithful to the husband, and to learn the arts of cooking, arts of painting—that should be their subject matter.
Jyotirmāyī: Painting?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sixty-four arts, Rādhārāṇī did. Then She could control Kṛṣṇa.
Jyotirmāyī: So after they have learned all the academics, reading, writing, all these.
Prabhupāda: Academic is ordinary, ABCD, that's all. Not very much. But these arts. They should learn how to cook nicely.
Prabhupāda: That may be, you may be a teacher, but you'll remain only a worker. That is another thing. Just like Dronācārya, he taught, he remained a teacher. So we can become a teacher of a particular subject matter, but that does not mean you should be worker. Still, there are many professors, they are teacher, they are not worker. But if the teachers are available, why you should become a teacher? Let them teach. We have to save our time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. After all, this, in the modern world they have invented so many varieties of occupations unnecessarily, to develop economic condition. Is it not? But our philosophy is that you cannot develop your economic condition than you are destined to suffer or enjoy. So one should not waste his time for so-called development of economic condition. He should utilize his time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which was not possible in any other form of life. When we had cat's and dog's life, tree's life, we could not do that, development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now we have got human form of life, we should fully utilize it for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Rituals are meant for the neophytes who are given education to begin with. But if he's stuck up with rituals, do not make any further progress, then his progress is checked. You have to go, progress, more progress. Instead of having no sense of God, they, if it is prescribed that "Go to the mosque and pray to God, five times," that is good, ritualistic. At least you're accepting there is God, I must offer. Similarly... This is Muslim process. Hindu process, they say go to the temple and see God. And this Christian, go to the church and offer... The subject matter is the same—accept God. Accept God. But the ultimate, shall we say, goal is not only accept God... They go to God for some material benefit, because they have no other idea. Like the Christians say, "O God, give us our daily bread." I do not know what the Muhammadans say in the prayer. Hindus also, they go to God, "Sir, I am very poor, give me some money," or "I am diseased, please cure me." So these things are the same in different ways according to country and customs. But it is good because they have approached God. That much is good. They are accepting there is God. That much is good. But when he makes further progress, that there is God, what kind of person He is, what is His business, then you make further progress. So these, for the neophyte, these ritualistic formula is good, but he must make further progress. Instead of godlessness, these processes are better.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. Unless one feels like that and asks somebody, a superior, accepts him as guru, there is no use talking. It will not be useful. This is the position. If the injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), if anyone is interested to know about the transcendental subject matter, he must approach a guru, and unless one approaches a guru, he cannot understand, and if by force I become guru, he may not be interested. This is the position. But still, for a preacher, he has to do something against all odds. That is preaching. You cannot expect favorable position. Your question was that we go and they say like this, but you cannot expect that wherever you are going you'll find favorable situation to talk. That you must understand. But you have to preach, you have to create favorable situation. That is your duty.(?) You cannot expect. If they are not prepared to take good instruction. Where is that fan?
Hari-śauri: He's bringing it.
Prabhupāda: Of course, I cannot understand. What is the favorable condition of film?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jñānagamya prabhu is interested in making a very big film.
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The subject matter is devotees in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How they learn, how they study, how they go on saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: They are seeing already.
Jñānagamya: They are seeing in real life, but so many people, they do not know of devotees, and films would go to every little town and village, and there would be chanting in the film, and there would be interest in what the devotees are doing.
Prabhupāda: But their opinion is not in favor, as you said.
Arundhatī: Prabhupāda is asking if you need those glasses.
Prabhupāda: Yes? All right. So our, this philosophy is to educate the human being to know about God. That's all. We have no other business. We're writing books on this subject matter, distributing them, educating them. We are creating preachers who can educate. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Others are denying the human rights. We are giving the human rights. We are so benevolent. Suppose your father has got some money. You are child, you do not know. But if somebody tries to hide that money or does not give you, utilizes for some other purposes; another friend is trying to give you your father's money—who is better friend, hm? Who is better friend? You cannot distinguish who is better friend?
Shahrezad: I don't know. Yes, I can, but...
Prabhupāda: Nandarāṇī?
Nandarāṇī: The man who is giving the father's what?
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your father's money, you do not know. One friend is trying to hide that money, another friend is trying to give you that money. So who is better friend?
Shahrezad: I believe in philosophy that the Creator must exist, but I don't know about the stories and details that I hear from...
Prabhupāda: No, that you shall understand. First of all you must accept that there is creator. Then we study what is the nature of that creator. Just like these rascals, they are trying to prove that creation begins from stone, matter. Whether that is fact, whether creation begins from stone or from life, these things are to be studied. Creation they are accepting, but they are trying to prove that creation is from matter. Our proposition is "No, creation is from life." There are two things, life and matter. These are subject matters for further studies. First of all, we must know there is a creator. The atheists, they say there is no creator but there is creation, do they not? There is creation.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but that means cause after cause you have to find how the combination came. That is called philosophy. Go on searching out, searching out. Then you'll find sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). We say that kāma-haitukam, that desire is there in Kṛṣṇa. And therefore, you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, that desire has come to you. We see Kṛṣṇa's dealing with gopīs, with Rādhārāṇī, exactly like young man, young woman. The kāma-haitukam is there. It is not fictitious. It has come down, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Kṛṣṇa says... The kāma also, you have to accept it, because Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. "Whatever you have got, that is from Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). You cannot say the kāma is independent. That's not fact. It is coming from Kṛṣṇa. (break) Ahaṁ sarvasya, sarvasya, you'll have take kāma also, everything, everything is coming. As Kṛṣṇa says everything, kāma is also coming from Him. In another place Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). It cannot be independent. The kāma-haitukam, the man and woman, lusty desire, that is also coming from Kṛṣṇa. You cannot finish the subject matter simply kāma-haitukam. Wherefrom this kāma came? Kṛṣṇa answers that. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. What is that? Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is situated in both the boy's and the girl's heart. So Kṛṣṇa is giving, "You wanted to enjoy, now here is opportunity, you take it." Then Kṛṣṇa becomes cause. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam. "You wanted, you have got, here is. You wanted a young boy-here is." Mattaḥ smṛtiḥ. Therefore He's sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Ātreya, when this is going on you cannot talk, then the attention will be diverted. You can later on explain. Go on.
Harikeśa: "The first six chapters of the Gītā are meant for those who are interested in transcendental knowledge, in understanding the self, the Superself and the process of realization by jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, and discrimination of the self from matter. However, Kṛṣṇa can only be known by persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other transcendentalists may achieve impersonal Brahman realization, for this is easier than understanding Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, but at the same time He is beyond the knowledge of Brahman and Paramātmā. The yogis and jñānīs are confused in their attempts to understand Kṛṣṇa, although the greatest of the impersonalists, Śrīpāda Śaṅkarācārya, has admitted in his Gītā commentary that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But his followers do not accept Kṛṣṇa as such, for it is very difficult to know Kṛṣṇa, even though one has transcendental realization of impersonal Brahman. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the cause of..."
Prabhupāda: The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore ordinary persons or a little advanced person cannot understand. And unless one is fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, one cannot become spiritual master. The subject matter itself is difficult. Therefore you don't find many spiritual masters.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Your love also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if I understand that he is rich, I may consider, "Well, I have got one thousand dollars, so he may have one hundred thousand dollars," that's all. But if you understand that he has got millions and millions of dollars, then you'll appreciate, "Oh, so rich!" Then your regard for him will increase. That is not being done. Stereotyped, "God is great." How He is great, to what extent He is great, what is His greatness activities, if you know more and more, then your regard for God will increase. But that they are not doing. Simply officially, "God is great, God is great," finished. No jijñāsā, no inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should be inquisitive. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One who has become inquisitive of the uttamam, the most exalted subject matter, he requires a guru. Otherwise, who will answer his inquiries? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. If he's not jijñāsuḥ, what is the need of guru? And where is the question of advancement? He must be jijñāsuḥ. That is, people are not interested.
Prabhupāda: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduḥ. Actually that is the..., because he does not know self. (Hindi) Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gītā, self-interest. Kṛṣṇa giving first lesson: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "You are talking like a very learned man, but your action is not like learned." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widows and will become prostitute, and varṇa-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of paṇḍita. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). His body will change and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. (aside:) Ask him not to talk. This is ignorance.
Yaśomatīnandana: "Your question is glorious because it is very beneficial to all kinds of people. To hear the answer to this question is the prime subject matter of hearing, and it is approved by all transcendentalists." Purport: "Even the very question is so nice that it is the best subject matter for hearing. Simply by such questioning and hearing one can achieve the highest perfectional stage of life. Because Lord Kṛṣṇa is the original Supreme Person, any question about Him is original and perfect. Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that the highest perfection of life is to achieve the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa. Because questions and answers about Kṛṣṇa elevate one to that transcendental position, the questions of Mahārāja Parīkṣit about Kṛṣṇa philosophy are greatly glorified. Mahārāja Parīkṣit wanted to absorb his mind completely in Kṛṣṇa, and such absorption can be effected simply by hearing about the uncommon activities of Kṛṣṇa. For instance, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that simply by understanding the transcendental nature of Lord Kṛṣṇa's appearance, disappearance, and activities, one can immediately return back to home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is back to home, back to Godhead. Home is here in India, and again back to Godhead? And somebody say, "Here is America. It is my home." And when you say that he'll be kicked out after some years, then home finished. They are satisfied, that home finished, that's all. In such ignorance they are living. And for this home they are busy. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī, attached to this home from which he'll be kicked out.
Yaśomatīnandana:
- śrotavyādīni rājendra
- nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ
- apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ
- gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām
- (SB 2.1.2)
Translation: "Those persons who are materially engrossed, being blind to the knowledge of ultimate truth, have many subject matters for hearing in the human society, O emperor."
Prabhupāda: See newspaper? Hundreds of thousands of news. Here they are ten pages. In foreign countries, such a big bundle. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ (SB 2.1.2). Thousands and thousands news. But no news about ātma-tattvam. That is not to be taken. They do not know. So many newspapers. Therefore they are purchasing our books. They are intelligent. They are seeing something new. That is, they are intelligent man. Because they have never seen such books. There is elaborate science of God. One can go back to home, back to Godhead. You can talk with Him, you can eat with Him. These things are surprising.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, the first beginning of the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā you have to take. (aside:) No children. Otherwise it will be disturbed. When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the spiritual master, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). First of all, he was talking like friends. When he saw "The friendly talking will not help us," so Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as his spiritual master. Then as spiritual master He said, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting on the subject matter which is not the subject matter of lamentation, and you are talking like a very learned man." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. This body, either alive or dead, it is not a serious subject matter of study, neither a learned man laments over it. This is the subject matter of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual knowledge. Those who are not human being, according to Vedic śāstra anyone who has no self-realization, he's animal. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is identifying with this body, "I am this body which is made of three elements, kapha, pitta, vāyu..." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Tri-dhātuke, this combination of three elements. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). He's animal. So practically now in this age especially, everyone is identifying with this body. That is the basic principle of nationalism, communism, or this "ism" or that "ism." The bodily conception of life. And according to Vedic version, anyone who is identifying with this body, he is animal.
- śrotavyādīni rājendra
- nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ
- apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ
- gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām
- (SB 2.1.2)
Those who are not searching after self-realization, they have got many subject matter for hearing and deliberate. That means material subject matter. We have in the newspaper different subject matters for different public interest, but those who are searching after spiritual realization, athāto brahma jijñāsā. As it is stated in the Vedānta-sūtra, also in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Human life means tattva-jijñāsā, inquiry about the Absolute Truth.
Prabhupāda: You are taking so many education...
Guest (2): ...that I don't have to time to contemplate or study such things. Don't you think it's the responsibility of people like you to...
Prabhupāda: That means you are not properly trained up. The thing is, the first business of human being is to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta philosophy. Now we have got this human form of body, it is your duty to inquire about the spiritual subject matter. But if your guardians, if your parents, if your government does not teach you, then it is our misfortune.
Interviewer (3): Do you want this to become a part of the educational system here?
Prabhupāda: This is the first education. Otherwise it is animal. Animal does not require absolute education. Animal is not able to understand what is self, what is God. But a man can. Therefore the man's first business is to understand this self-realization.
Interviewer (3): Do you think it will come to India via the West now?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow.
Prabhupāda: That you have introduced. That is your unfortunate case.
Interviewer (4): No, that is because of historical reasons. We were ruined by a foreign...
Prabhupāda: If the real subject matter of study you neglect, that is your negligence, your misfortune.
Interviewer (3): Now how to rectify this...
Prabhupāda: You can take it now. You are simply arguing. Why don't you take it? That means you don't want to take it. There is the thing, but if you want, you can take it. But if you don't want, then how we can help you?
Interviewer (5): On you return from West do you feel..., do you think your movement in India has gained ground or created consciousness...
Prabhupāda: I am not interested in any particular country. This is meant for the whole human society. As you think "India" or "America," we do not think like that. We take the opportunity wherever it is possible to introduce more and more we take that opportunity.
Prabhupāda: But if the system is wrong, then you are living wrongly. You are misled.
Interviewer (4): That means the movement should make an attack on the politicians, people who make the decisions.
Prabhupāda: No. Politician, of course, it is, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This system, this science, was understood by the rājarṣi, kings who were as good as ṛṣis, rājarṣis. So where is that politician, politician as good as a ṛṣi? That is the difficulty. It is meant for rājarṣi. Rāja and ṛṣi. Just like Janaka Mahārāja, Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, Prahlāda Mahārāja, they were kings, but they were at the same time so great and saintly, they were called rājarṣi, and this is a subject matter for the rājarṣis. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, uh...
Harikeśa: Vivasvān manave prāha.
Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.
Prabhupāda: Why people are accepting our books? You'll be surprised we are selling book to the extent of six lakhs of rupees per day. Daily. Daily we are selling six lakhs of rupees' worth all over the world. So people think philosophy, religion is dry subject matter. If it was dry subject matter, how they could purchase so many books? It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. They are getting for the first time. Here is real ānanda. Therefore they are appreciating. Everyone, learned circle, they are appreciation. In (indistinct) foreign circles. So, there was no such literature. It is the first time. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇaṁ vaiṣṇavānām... So unless, they're really relishing some rasa, how they are purchasing? This is the first distribution of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa throughout the whole world, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I am very happy that you are also joining. Let us join together.
Prabhupāda: Our subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that systematize... The progress of human society should be systematized according to śāstra. Just like your government, it is conducted under certain rules and regulations. You have to refer to the government regulative principles, and expert government officers, they are selected. Formally it was ICS, now it is IAS. That means reference to the authorities. Similarly, there are authorities which are called śāstra. Śās-dhātu means to rule. From Śās-dhātu, śāstra and śastra. Śastra means weapon. If you do not act according to the śāstra then there is śastra. Śastra means weapon, government. If you violate the rules of the government then there is police department, there is military department which will force you to accept the government regulation. And from the same śās-dhātu is śiṣya, one who voluntarily accepts the discipline.
Prabhupāda: ...and he is such a big man that he goes above the ācāryas. Ati-buddhi. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe. (?) If one is overintelligent, hang him. That is a Bengali saying. Ati-buddhi galaya dekhe (?). If one is unnecessarily overintelligent, just hang him with a rope in the neck. He is ati-buddhi. Anyway, he was intelligent to purchase.
Devotee: (aside:) He thought that it would explain...
Prabhupāda: You have to read the subject matter. Even if he thinks that it is written by Bopadeva, such a great knowledge, one has to read. Such great knowledge is not possible by Bopadeva and unless... He is incarnation of God, Vyāsadeva. It is said... (indistinct) Not this. (indistinct)
Mahāṁsa: Which volume do you want, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Second volume. Varīyān eṣa...
Harikeśa: Second Canto, Part One, verse one.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lokanātha: Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Krishna Modi: That is Blitz.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is new?
Hari-śauri: No, this is the first article.
Krishna Modi: And second article also they have given.
Hari-śauri: Yes, there's another one.
Krishna Modi: Blitz has given second article also.
Hari-śauri: Yes, this last week's issue. This one's from two or three weeks ago.
Prabhupāda: (reads newspaper headlines:) "(indistinct) Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa."
Harikeśa: I think there's only one person who's following that description.
Prabhupāda: No, I say about Bhāgavata's description. How perfect it is in any subject matter. I have tried to explain what is there in the Bhāgavatam, expand it. That is not my explanation, that is Kṛṣṇa's explanation. I cannot explain now. That moment I could explain. That means Kṛṣṇa's... I can understand that. That the description is very nicely given. Although it is my writing, but I know it is not my writing. It is Kṛṣṇa's writing. So we should read Bhāgavatam always. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18). We should not waste our time. So we have to check that closet. You can... (break) How they can say there is no God? Then you are only intelligent. All are fools. That means you are fool number one. If you think like that...
Harikeśa: Yes, but in India...
Prabhupāda: No, now you cannot say Indians. (laughs) Now we cannot say only Indians worship Kṛṣṇa. Whole world. That is God. They are not fools and rascals. They are educated, they are civilized. Why they accept Kṛṣṇa as God? Yesterday I was telling who? I think Caraṇam?
Prabhupāda: So we should know... Happiness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam (BG 6.21). What is happiness, that is beyond the senses. The sense happiness is there by the pig and the man. But his standard of sense happiness is different from the man's. Standard may be different, but the happiness derived from the subject matter is the same. There is no difference.
Indian man: So happiness lies above the senses. Above our indriyas.
Prabhupāda: Ha. Happiness means spiritual happiness. That they do not know. Therefore I began my words that so long one is after material happiness he remains as an animal. Because the animal cannot derive spiritual happiness. They do not know. The man can know. Just like this boy, he's coming from very high family in America but he's now happy in this way, by taking sannyāsa, giving up everything, living very plain. He has got money he had got beautiful wife, he had got beautiful home, everything. But he has given up. Not his example. In our country there were many many big, big kings, rājarṣis. Just like Bharata Mahārāja. He was emperor of the whole world. He gave up everything at the age of 24 years, young wife, young children. There are many examples. So actually, we have lost our Vedic culture, the objective, and therefore we are suffering. Simply by holding meetings and... Of course, these things will go on. Government has no other remedy by tax. Whether people are happy or they are happy, it doesn't matter. They have got the power, tax.
Akṣayānanda: It's so bad. They give people... (break) ...and eating so much nonsense. So the preaching in India has to be done very, very tactfully.
Prabhupāda: No, just like I was speaking from Bhāgavatam.
Akṣayānanda: Just what you have spoken. But our actions must be very tactful also.
Prabhupāda: If you speak only on the subject matter as it is mentioned in the books, it is already tactful. Yasyāṁ śrūyamāṇāyāṁ kṛṣṇe parama-pūruṣe, bhaktir utpadyate puṁsaḥ śoka-moha-bhayāpahā. Now they are in a position of śoka-moha-bhaya. So you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the best tact. Now it is the time. Now they are put into śoka-moha-bhaya. It is already there going on, śoka-moha-bhaya. But it is now special time for śoka-moha-bhaya. So you have to take it. It may be out of fear, bhaya, they may take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Akṣayānanda: Still, they have to just take, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna ārto (BG 7.16), ārto. Ārtaḥ means who is afraid of. So this is the position of ārta, śoka-moha-bhaya. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But that he can take provided he is sukṛtina, if there is background. But still, by hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa he becomes sukṛtina.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) So many big, big sign boards, "Kṛṣṇa is coming." "Here is Kṛṣṇa." (sounds of pages being turned) "Here is Kṛṣṇa."
Hari-śauri: Yeah, every heading has a "Kṛṣṇa" written.
Prabhupāda: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." That I... That is our trap.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, the subject matter...
Prabhupāda: That will, that will help us in selling Kṛṣṇa Books.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: "What is this nonsense Kṛṣṇa, let us see." It is not in our disfavor, it is in favor. (chuckles) But still we have to defend. So as I suggested you collect.
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And from Vṛndāvana you can have signature from anyone.
Haṁsadūta: Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Hm. All the Gosvāmīs.
Guest (2): Normally, you know our people...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is our fault There is no mention of gopīs' saris. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā, why you are bringing gopīs' saris?
Guest (2): Because that...
Prabhupāda: Again because. There is no subject matter there. You have no right to bring that. That is our fault. To bring a horse before a cart. We are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no mention of Kṛṣṇa and gopīs' saris there. So let us talk. Finish that.
Guest (3): So you clearly said that interpretation is wrong.
Prabhupāda: Interpretation means lost.
Guest (3): No, no. You clearly said that interpretation is wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): What has been done all these years?
Prabhupāda: If they have done all these years wrong, that does it not right. If all of them have done wrong, then combined together it does not become right.
Prabhupāda: I knew all these things but what I am? I have no position.
Dr. Patel: But what you have commented is correct. And the Bhagavad-gītā, real thing is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Instead they directed their attention to karma and this and that. It was and similar thing...
Prabhupāda: But because they did not learn subject matter from ācārya. Yes. Ācārya, one has to learn from the ācārya.
Dr. Patel: Ācārya is one who ācāra, himself practices.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One who knows and practices. Ācinoti śāstra. One who knows the real purpose. And there is no difficulty of understanding the real purpose. It is clearly said, everything. The process of knowledge is given, amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam (BG 13.8). Where is that? In the beginning, "Oh, I am such a big leader, politician. Whatever I say is nice." Dambha. Dambha. Because he's thinking puffed-up falsely. Some rascal fools give them clap. (Prabhupāda claps) They think, "Oh, I have become very great."
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Night means ignorance, when one sleeps. Yes. And day is awakening. So what is day for the materialistic person, so that is night for the spiritualistic person. And what is day for the spiritualistic person, that is night for the... Just like a spiritualist person, he has sacrificed everything and he is after God, and they are thinking, "These rascals, unnecessarily, empty stomach, wasting, 'Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa,' chant." They are deriding. And he is thinking that "This rascal got this human form of body. Instead of spiritual culture, he's spoiling his life, cats and dogs." That means in the subject matter where the spiritualists were not interested, he is interested. And in the subject matter, the spiritual person, interested, he is not interested. This is day and night.
Prabhupāda: That is the fact, we know. We know that is a fact, that... My point is that the modern age, they are very much proud of advanced technology. So where is that knowledge? And why people do not tax their brains to get this knowledge? This is very important subject matter. But where is that knowledge? And why they do not try to do it? We get information from the Supreme Personality of Godhead that this jīva, the driver... Not driver. The passenger. We are passenger, and driver is God, and machine made by material energy, māyā... Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. The similarity is there. Just like motorcar is manufactured by somebody and the passenger is there and the driver is there, similarly, this is a machine made by māyā. I am the passenger, and God is driver. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati bhrāmāyan (BG 18.61). Bhrāmāyan, the driver, the passenger of the owner, he is asking, "Mr. Driver, you go this way." So He's driving. Just like the same—Arjuna is asking Kṛṣṇa, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me 'cyuta: (BG 1.21) "Just between these two parties of soldiers, please keep my chariot." The same thing.
Prabhupāda: Well, these are not the subject matter for serious thought? Do you think? You are under the grip of the laws of material nature. Do you admit or not?
Guest (4): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then why you should be under the grip of material nature? And if there is way, why should you not take? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etaṁ taranti te.
Guest (2): Our analysis...
Prabhupāda: Analysis... (Hindi) Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So why you are trying to get better position? That should be the endeavor, that we may get better position.
Prabhupāda: ...discussing some subject matter from Reader's Digest about the next two hundred years, how things will happen, the scientist proposing that they'll control the laws of nature, and they will produce food from garbage, so many fantastic ideas. But our suggestion, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu,
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
- (CC Adi 17.21)
- (break)
Rāmeśvara: This is a very bad picture. It makes the devotees look very strange. And they have this elaborate ghee holder.
Prabhupāda: This is our men?
Rāmeśvara: Yes. This is at an ārati. You can see the donations that people have put on the tray. But it makes it look very strange, this picture with the lighting. They have deliberately selected this.
Prabhupāda: Very big article.
Hari-śauri: What was that verse again, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that verse you wanted?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What subject matter? Niyatam.
- niyataṁ kuru karma tvam
- karma jyāyo hy akarmaṇaḥ
- śarīra-yātrāpi ca te
- na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ
Rāmeśvara: I'm thinking that by selling all these books, gradually hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of people will want us to give them some advice. They'll want to elect Kṛṣṇa conscious leaders. They'll want us to guide the society. So it will require great intelligence...
Prabhupāda: First of all, we have to know where he is. Then we can give. What is his position? Then we can give him. Just like diagnosis. You have to see what is the disease. Then we give medicine.
Rāmeśvara: One of the symptoms of the disease is that all of the people are engaged in artificial work, and the whole world is interdependent. It is very complex system of world trade, world finance.
Prabhupāda: But we have nothing to do with that.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, my point is: it is a very difficult subject matter. So unless we very carefully deal, people will misunderstand.
Guest (2): We have carefully dealt with...
Guest (1): So we have given them images the superpower of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2): It is not a question of sex. It is super divine power.
Prabhupāda: You say like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, weekly.
Guest (1): So spiritually they are innocent, comparing with India. We have become complicated after passing through many cultural ups and downs.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to these blind leaders. You see Bhagavad-gītā.
Guest (2): But, sir, Gandhi told that "You read Gītā."
Prabhupāda: He did not know himself. (laughs) That is the pity. He has spoken in this Gītā lecture that "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different from Bhagavad-gītā." A Kṛṣṇa is a subject matter of imagination. Have you read his lecture on Gītā?
Guest (1): Gītā-pravacana.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Gītā-pra..., is Vinobha.
Guest (1): What students can do? In the topic of..., what students can do?
Prabhupāda: You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Because Gandhi or Vinobha or Vivekananda or Aurobindo, they did not come in the paramparā system. They have made themselves important by their own ideas. That we want to check. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You cannot make any amendment or correction in the Bhagavad-gītā. But these people, unfortunately, they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and give their own comment.
Gurukṛpā: I asked him, "What time do you go to work?" He said, "At nine in the morning." I said, "But it is eight-thirty. You have been working now eleven hours." He said, "Well, after I leave here, I must go back to the office and finish my work. I will be finished at eleven tonight. Then I will go home. I will get home at one o'clock, and then I must get up at six in the morning to go to the office." So much tapasya.
Prabhupāda: There is a book, novel. The subject matter is that the man, when he goes out of home the child is sleeping. He has to rise four o'clock to prepare to take the six o'clock train. At that time his child is sleeping. And when he comes back at ten o'clock, the child is sleeping. So he does not know. So when he's grown up, on Sunday he's asking his mother, "Who is this man?" (laughs) This is the subject matter. They have written in a very... He is asking, "Who is this man?" When he was child, he did not see, neither inquired. Now, when he's grown up, on Sunday he sees that this man is very intimately talking with his mother. He... In this way...
Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied.
Prabhupāda: ...subject matter.
Hari-śauri: It was that article on transcendental science.
Prabhupāda: And no irresponsible article should be published, strictly. It is going to be future evidence. Not whimsical.
Hari-śauri: There's no reason why the BTG should be any different from any of our books. There's no reason why the BTG standard should be different from our books. We take your books as absolute authority.
Prabhupāda: No, it will not be.
Hari-śauri: BTG should not be any different from that.
Prabhupāda: See to that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This subject matter is called "mind-body problem." The mind sometimes they compare as spirit or soul in some Western philosophical circles.
Prabhupāda: Because they are not yet advanced. Beyond the mind there is intelligence, and beyond the intelligence there is the soul.
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu parā buddhir
- yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
- (BG 3.42)
They have come up to the mind, but above the mind there is intelligence, and above intelligence there is soul. So we can understand this very easily because we accept Bhagavad-gītā. It is easy for us. And for others, they are going step by step. It is very difficult. But we can understand immediately.
Prabhupāda: Why he said dhīra, sober, cool-headed? These rascals are cats and dogs. They are not civilized, even big, big professors, they say, "Swami, after finishing this body, everything is finished." Has he got brain? And they're Communist leader. Identifying with this body. This is the actual platform of that body, dehātma-buddhiḥ. And they're described in the śāstra as no better than the asses. So next point will be that where you think beyond your capacity, we begin our education from there, seeing the... Our education begins from that. First of all try to understand what is spirit. Then it will... And our whole process is how to transfer one person from the material platform to the spiritual. Therefore they are thinking "brainwash." The fools, they cannot understand where our education begins. Where they have failed, we begin from there. Where they are disappointed, that "This cannot be answered," so on, we begin from there. So who is intelligent? We are intelligent or they are? We are trying to bring man from this gross misunderstanding, misidentification platform, to come to the spiritual platform. Then he understands what is the spiritual kingdom, the spiritual life that is eternal, blissful. Then he will understand. And that is all new to these dull-headed rascals. And they are thinking... It is the same, different subject matter.
Prabhupāda: Do that. Think deeply, over and over again, and fight. What is your seeing? Useless. What you can see? You cannot see beyond this wall. Does it mean there is nothing? Why you depend on your seeing, rascal? That means brainless. So I take it, it is good opportunity for describing our whole philosophy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.
Prabhupāda: You don't take it otherwise. Rather, prove yourself efficient in this subject matter. This is a trial examination for this knowledge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. (devotees offer obeisances—break)
Prabhupāda: Ask question. I shall give answer.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) They chant. Very good. Do that.
Bali-mardana: We have a bus. They travel all over just for distributing prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Now, on this subject matter, you GBC decide how to do it and do it practically.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the real business of talking.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. How the supply will come, and everything, make program and do that. There will be no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa will supply you everything. No difficulty. Actually Kṛṣṇa is supplying. Now we are known all over the world, "very rich." Is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) "Fabulously rich."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Fabulously rich," they say in Parliament.
Prabhupāda: So I started... Was I rich?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Forty rupees.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom...? Forty rupees. So it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. So if we work sincerely, Kṛṣṇa will supply us.
Prabhupāda: So this... Very pleasant. Very pleasant. (break) And the other thing is the owner of the body. So which is important, the body or the owner of the body? You or I...(?) Which is important?
Guest (1) (Indian man): Actually, I have thought, without glorifying, because I did not want any material gain, but was my firm faith that what attracted me was the worth not of my personal ability but abilities of many other people.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to understand the subject matter for which we are working. Personal benefit and extended personal benefit, there is no difference by quality. Generally they take it that "I am working for my family. If I work for my community, or if I work for my society..." Extended. So the quality does not change.
Guest (1): The quality is... But even dharma many come, the mind should not be idle. Even if you go...
Prabhupāda: Mind cannot be idle. That is also foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Subject matter. This is for subject matter committee. Subject, committee of subject.
Satsvarūpa: Then today there was some new selection of assignments. One: That Jayapatākā Mahārāja be made acting GBC along with Gurukṛpā Mahārāja, both be co-GBC managers of Bengal and Orissa. And Gargamuni Mahārāja be GBC of the traveling party going to colleges and libraries for sales in India and Asia and the Mid-East. Gargamuni should first go to countries around Iran and evaluate his work... And his work will be evaluated, and if done nicely, then he can enter Iran also.
Gargamuni: I have to go to Iran in order to sell the vehicles. Where am I supposed to go? That's a stupid proposal. I wasn't here for that. (laughter) It's a stupid proposal.
Jagadīśa: That wasn't the main part of the proposal.
Gargamuni: Well, that clause is stupid.
Rāmeśvara: We can discuss that.
Satsvarūpa: But the general assignments are agreeable, is that Iran...
Gargamuni: Yes. We're going to have to go in.
Hṛdayānanda: So we can arrange it.
Prabhupāda: We have got very good encouragement from Budapest. You have read that letter. That means there is very good potency of our movement being accepted in communistic countries. Just read that letter.
Prabhupāda: You want to do that, then do it. I don't mind. Every week, you can... At least...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That means that we will have to send out regular invitation every week on a regular program to our life members.
Prabhupāda: It is all right, you do it. We have got so much subject matter for speaking.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there will be an initiation on Rāma-navamī.
Prabhupāda: Rāma-navamī is upavāsa up till the... Go to observe fasting up to the evening.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So moon.
Prabhupāda: Sunset.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sunset, moonrise.
Prabhupāda: Authorized.
Prabhupāda: "Because you are a rascal. Because you are giving stress on the body." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvam (BG 2.11). The body is a lump of matter. It is not the subject matter for discussing or lamenting. It is a lump of matter. Now this, what is called...
Mr. Koshi: Machine. Tape recorder.
Prabhupāda: This machine, so long it is working, it is valuable. If it does not work, what is the value? Throw it out. Similarly, the machine is not important, but so long it is working, it is important. So we must know what is that working principle. That is knowledge. So generally, people, they are embarrassed with the machine, this body. But they do not know what the power in the machine. Am I right or wrong?
Prabhupāda: This is a wrong type of civilization. A civilization of ignorance. Animal civilization. Just like animals: the cat, the dog, the cow, he does not know what is the working principle in the body. So he is jumping and running as a dog, as a cat, and he appears to be very busy. Similarly, the modern civilization, they are jumping and running like cats and dogs, but does not know what is the principle which is helping him to jump and run. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Asmin dehe dehinaḥ. The active principle is there within this body. So who knows it? Ask big, big leaders, big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā. They are concerned with this body. Nobody is interested with the active principle within the body. So what do they know about Bhagavad-gītā? The basic principle is wrong. Kṛṣṇa is speaking on the subject matter within the body, the active principle. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe. The dehī, the owner of the body, is there. Who knows it? Tell me. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson. But one does not know that what is the important thing in this body. Not this machine, but the power that is driving the machine. And still, they are proud of becoming scholar on Bhagavad-gītā, knower of Bhagavad-gītā and so on, so on. This is going on. This misconception. They are themselves in ignorance, and they are keeping their followers in ignorance. Therefore no benefit has been derived from this culture of Bhagavad-gītā. We wanted to give it to the world. This is the purpose.
Prabhupāda: We are preaching what Kṛṣṇa says. We do not mind what others says. There may be similarities, there may not be similarities. It doesn't matter. But we are concerned with the instruction that Kṛṣṇa says. I haven't got to tally what Kṛṣṇa says and what you say. I have no business to do that. We are simply concerned what Kṛṣṇa says. Now if you like, you can take it. If you don't like, you take your own. But we are speaking only on Kṛṣṇa. So our lamentable subject matter, subject is that India has got so great exalted knowledge on Bhagavad-gītā, and the government has got Cultural Department, and all leaders, at least they are supposed to give support to Bhagavad-gītā. Why they are not taking seriously and give it to the...? And they are taking it seriously. My single attempt to preach the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, they are accepting it all over the world. Why not give it an organized way. All the Indian leaders, they are simply imitating jumping like the Western people.
Prabhupāda: Again why you are coming to renunciation? First of all come to the knowledge. First of all accept that within this body there is the active principle. Then whether it is required renunciation, no renunciation, that we shall discuss later on. First of all, we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says in the very beginning, that asmin dehe dehī. Within this body, there is the owner of the body. First of all try to understand. He is speaking on that subject matter. Dehī. Not on the deha. People should understand first of all this science. Then talk of other things. When we say "Two plus two equal to four," no scholar will deny it. "Yes, it is four." Nobody, no rascal will say, "No, it is five or three." Nobody will disagree, if it is science, if it is mathematics. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says within this body, the owner of the body. Who will deny it? Let them accept it. Then we shall discuss what is that owner, what is the nature of that owner. First of all let them accept it. They are accepting the machine as everything. Do you agree or not?
Prabhupāda: These can be distributed to the devotees. Today I have explained the Bhāgavata, prāṇamānāya:(?) how this bodily concept of life is dangerous. These things they do not know. Leaders, big, big papers, big, big propaganda. What is the purpose of life and how dangerous this civilization is, bodily concept of life, they do not know. Bhagavad-gītā begins when they understand that "You are not this body." The whole subject matter is on that soul, the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Bhojendra-gehe 'gni-śikheva ruddhā, sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. I see Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam so exalted knowledge and so beautifully literary presented. Śrīmat. Śrīmat means beautiful. Throughout the whole world, you won't find any literature. This is India's fortune, and they are keeping it packed up. Jñāna-khaleṣu. Jñāna-khala means envious. You have got some knowledge, but you are envious. You don't want to distribute to anyone. They are called jñāna-khala.
Prabhupāda: There is no honesty all over the world. It is a forgotten. "These are primitive," they say, "Now, the honesty, to become pious, to become religious. These are simply primitive idea." We have to open this. That is a specific subject matter of that... But we have to write very nicely. Everything is based on tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rascals also argue that... The materialists argue that we're being cheated.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The materialists' argument is that we are being cheated by being promised something imaginary.
Prabhupāda: We are not discussing that, but you are cheating—that is practical. You are cheating. Your government is cheating, giving a piece of paper, cheating me that "You get hundred rupees."
Prabhupāda: So we have to discuss very thoroughly all these subject matter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another form of cheating is done by man and women for sex life. Just like a woman cheats by putting on all this makeup with the idea that "I will attract someone for my sense pleasure." And the man promises so many things: "I will take care of you. I will do this. I will do that."
Prabhupāda: Well, first of all, if you accept that you have got the cheating propensity, then all other things come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. So many things, everything. Yeah, practically this whole civilization now is a cheating civilization.
Prabhupāda: Whatever name you can give, it is not civilization. That we have to... Not that "How they are cheating." But it is not human civilization; it is animal. Just as animals cheat naturally. Animal fight. So we have to prove this is animal civilization. (Bengali or Hindi) This is not human civilization. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is not human civilization. That we have to prove. How it is not? You have to prove that "This is animal civili... This is not human civili..." Real human business is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's para-upakāra. In ignorance they are doing all nonsense. Stop them. Give them knowledge.
Prabhupāda: But they'll not hear. If you forbid the dogs, "Don't bark," it is like that. Why waste time? He'll go on with all politics. Negative, as soon as you say, they'll neglect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some subject matter...?
Prabhupāda: It requires training.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some subject matter...?
Prabhupāda: Just like so much training we are giving; still, there is falldown. So simply by saying...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you had... There was a newspaper article about a few weeks ago, and you had said that something could be written on this subject. That's the only reason I...
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Hm.
Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any subject that would be good to write on?
Prabhupāda: Oh, we have got so many subjects, positive. Read our books and present it in a different way. You can write intelligently. That's not bad. Just to induce them...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I...
Prabhupāda: But they will not hear.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why one? Let him come. (Hindi) I think I speak in English. Otherwise they will not understand. The first thing is that "I am not this body." This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you do not understand the first instruction, then where is the use of going ahead? This is the defect. Bhagavān said,
- aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
- prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
- gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
- nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
- (BG 2.11)
"My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: The Russian booklet, Russian Easy Journey, is now being used as a textbook in the Catholic university in Lublin(?) by one professor. They liked the Russian so much and they liked the subject matter so much, they're using it in the school. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Prabhupāda: And your Kṛṣṇa is... Present now scientifically. They'll not receive?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, well, this is... This should be ready, and this will be ready this month, this third one, so...
Prabhupāda: So...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This one is to prove from mathematics that life cannot come from matter. This one is The Laws of Consciousness and the Laws of Nature, to prove by quantum mechanics that there must be Supersoul, Paramātmā. There must be Kṛṣṇa to direct all the source of knowledge. And there is no way that life can come from matter. This was the basic difference between spirit and matter. From Bhagavad-gītā we use kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam, from Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter 13.3, "To understand the distinction between matter, physical body, and life, the spirit, or the knower of the field, is called knowledge." And we expounded this. We give the nice examples. We make their chemical theory of life as the "molecular fairy tale." So that makes quite nicely adjusted to their theory.
Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi can go for some time, Bangladesh. They... He went there. Both Hindus and Muslims, they have regard to our society. And explain.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Another point is the subject matter of my conversation with you last year." He says, "You explained at that time that resin, rosin, is a by-product of crude oil, which is a transformation of earth. Since earth is one of the materials used for fashioning of mūrtis, this plastic is also suitable for the purpose. Am I understanding this correctly?" Yes, it's correct. He says, "Rosin is a by-product of crude oil, which is a transformation of earth, and earth is one of the bona fide substances."
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Some of the temple presidents are contesting the purity of the substance and are hesitant to order Deities on this account. On the other..."
Prabhupāda: No. You can do whichever is very sound and strong.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It is no wonder that this transcendental treasure chest of spiritual texts have been described by many scholars as the first presentation of full encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge. This encyclopedia touches various subject matters relating to philosophy, religion, sociology and anthropology, literature and classics, political science, history and psychology. On the back side of this pamphlet an order blank to apply for a full encyclopedia published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is given. Please fill in and return." (chuckles) Here's what he says, "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Library of Vedic Knowledge can make a worthwhile gift to a friend of relative or may be kept in one's own home. Or one may contribute a set to a school, college, hospital library, reading room, temple, or for any other charitable purpose. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is offering this encyclopedia on an easy installment basis by which one may receive published volumes every month without any extra cost." Sounds like they're getting a lot for free. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: Organized very nice. Hm. "Gargamoney." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Good idea, provided you can present properly.
Haṁsadūta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Viṣṇu, then why he did not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teachings ABC's and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching ABC. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.
Prabhupāda: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.
Haṁsadūta: Once Lord Buddha, they say, was sitting under a bo tree, and a leaf fell down. He picked it up and he said, "The knowledge I am giving you is like this leaf compared to the tree of knowledge." So I always quote that. They appreciate that, "Oh, yes," that beyond nirvāṇa there is brahma-nirvāṇa, and beyond that there is Paramātmā, and above that there is Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is nirvāṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityaj... Parityajya means giving up, and that is nirvāṇa. It requires expert presentation.
Prabhupāda: Live comfortably. We have got nice place, and whatever comfort you want, you'll get. These Americans, Europeans... When I was in London, I was thinking of getting you there. Anyway, by Kṛṣṇa's grace you have come. Good for us, good for you.
Bhakti-prema: Gone down(?) over the subject matter about esoteric geography and esoteric history, and I have gotten many good points more.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Perhaps Kṛṣṇa wanted it.
Bhakti-prema: We can put it in very nice way now.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, thank you very much. (break)
Kulādri: ...dakṣiṇā, eight thousand dollars in dakṣiṇā, for... Before... With the new system of initiation that you've initiated, he asked them to write you a check for $111 for each devotee he's initiating for you. So he has a check for eight thousand dollars for you. One of the girls has taken silver thread and crocheted this silver bead bag with silver thread. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Silver thread on satin.
Prabhupāda: Silver thread.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...book sales and sells twelve to fifteen thousand rupees a month. It's very nice to see these foreign people coming to Vṛndāvana, having read your books, coming here. It's like a perfect fulfillment of your books. They're so much impressed with the subject matter that they want to see this Vṛndāvana. Especially they have read Kṛṣṇa book. To them Vṛndāvana is like a magical world.
Prabhupāda: Hindi book is selling nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm-hm. He said so.
Prabhupāda: Four hundred, five hundred—no joke.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no joke. That Bengali Back to Godhead is very good also. This one has come out very nice, the layout and everything. It's very good.
Prabhupāda: He writes nice.
Jayādvaita: Bajaj is just burdening the world with motorcycles, and you're providing the highest subject matter for hearing and chanting.
Prabhupāda: Where there is need of money, send there. I mean to say, just like Africa and other backwards... I am simply dreaming, and you are actually on the field.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are actually what?
Brahmānanda: On the field.
| Page Title: | Subject matter (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur |
| Created: | 27 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=227, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 227 |