Students (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"student" |"student's" |"students"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll get you some.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He mentioned that, that "My Kṛṣṇa is different imagination. My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." That is his position. He imagines. He has... (Hindi) "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa..." This is... How he can believe Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is preaching violence, and he's trying to draw nonviolence. The people will challenge, but he makes his own commentation, his own imagination. He said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." This is his word. And actually... He is the student of Bhagavad-gītā and in his āśrama there is not a single picture of Kṛṣṇa. He does not believe in Kṛṣṇa. But believe or not believe, he was reading Bhagavad-gītā, had respect. That will give him some profit, there is no doubt. (break) Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Everything is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. I speak, therefore, to my disciples that "You simply repeat like parrot Bhagavad-gītā and follow by your life. Don't try to become very big scholar, do interpretation. Remain foolish and believe in Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect." And actually that is happening. They never tried to eschew and... What is called, the English word? Draw out some meaning. Eschew or something?

Jagadīśa: Eschew is the right word.

Room Conversation -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do, everyone. The Tilak has done like that, Gandhi has done like that, Vinod Bhave is doing that. Dr. Radhakrishna has done like that, Vivekananda has done, Aurobindo has done—everyone. Nobody would take directly, that "Here is God." What do you think? They have taken directly? Do they believe?

Dr. Patel: They believe in God.

Prabhupāda: No, believe in God, that is everyone doing. So what is their special credit? Why do they touch Bhagavad-gītā and say, "My imagination of God is different"? How cheating it is. If your imagination of God is different, why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā and declare yourself that "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā. My life is also for Gītā?"

Dr. Patel: Even when Tilak... Tilak says he follows Bhagavad-gītā always.

Prabhupāda: Everyone says that. But nobody says...

Dr. Patel: A part of it, not the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Nobody says that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." That is their fault.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, Ekādaśī, that is automatically... By Ekādaśī is one of the process for... (Hindi)

Indian (2): (Hindi)

Indian lady: May I ask one question? I'm running my own school in Hosharpur, and it starts to A-class, and I want to convert it into gurukula. How I can make arrangements for the books and the examination or the students can take Welley(?) certificate and examination from recognized book? We should make something.

Prabhupāda: Running on...? What is that school?

Indian lady: All kind of school, English-speaking.

Prabhupāda: But if you have to work under government regulation, then you cannot do it. You won't get government help.

Indian lady: But I want to convert it into gurukula on the basis of Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Our gurukula means how to teach them to become self-controlled. That is first business. This literary education secondary, grammar secondary. The first necessity is how to create them śānta, dānta, self-controlled.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say, if you have to work under government control, it is very difficult. If you can work independently, then it is possible.

Indian lady: It is independent. I'm independent. I'm doing everything.

Prabhupāda: No, if you take government help...

Indian lady: But the students go for examination in the board also.

Prabhupāda: Examination or no examination, if you, they practice the rules, that is sufficient examination. Suppose one of the items, that one has to rise early in the morning... So if one is rising early in the morning, then what is the examination? That is already examined. If one has to rise early in the morning, attend the maṅgala-ārati, sitting in the class and reading Bhagavad-gītā, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa... These are all practical. There is no need of examination. If he is doing, then it is examination passed.

Indian lady: But the parents want certificate.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you want to satisfy the parents, the government, then it is not possible. You have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly.

Trivikrama: Everyone in a body means...

Prabhupāda: Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. A student should always remain to be chastised by guru. That is his right position. And as soon as he thinks that he has become more than his guru, then he'll be finished, his career.

Trivikrama: Jumping over the head.

Prabhupāda: Just like our Nitāi. (chuckles) This is the difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu remained-guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana: "My Guru Mahārāja has chastised Me because I am fool number one." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is fool? But He's showing the example that you should always remain...

Dr. Patel: The avatāras shall behave like common men. Otherwise they will not be... All avatāras behave like common men.

Prabhupāda: Our Guru Mahārāja, so strict... A little discrepancy, he would chastise like anything. But we liked it very much.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, she can... Paripraśna. From scientific point of view, from logic, that is accepted. But if he (she) thinks blindly something, then it is not possible.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānam

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense. "Why I shall die? Why not stop death?" That is knowledge. That is knowledge. But then going on, (Hindi): "Everyone dies. I will die. What is that?" But why you shall die? You live. And Kṛṣṇa gives the formula. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this process. This body is material; you have to give it up. But no more material body. Why don't you take this science; how it is possible? Why do you not contribute this science to the whole world as India's contribution? They need it. Why you go beg? Give something. In Berkeley University, one Indian student, "Swamiji, what this hari-kīrtana will do? We require now technology." So I replied, "Yes, you have come to beg here. I have come to give something. I am not a beggar like you." So we are working... Of course, we are Indian, we are poor.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What he will do, more payment? (?) Then he will kill. This sex life in this material world is so strong, even in the heavenly planets. Big, big ṛṣis. Sex life with animals also there is... Sex life is so strong. Man cohabiting with animal. It makes blind. Vyāsadeva made one of her (his) students pregnant, what to speak of ourselves. Vyāsadeva was born, Satyavatī. She was low class. Although she was born by a king, but her mother was a low-class fisherwoman. And the fisherman raised her as daughter. And Parāśara Muni became attracted. And Vyāsadeva was born. Sex affairs, just see, in the highest circle. Bṛhaspati, the spiritual master of the devatās, he became so much mad for his brother's wife who was pregnant, and forcibly they had sex. Just see. These are examples. Brahmā became attracted with his daughter. Lord Śiva became attracted with the beauty of Mohinī-mūrti, even in the presence of his wife. So this sex life can be controlled only by becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise there is no... The Bhāgavata has discussed all this because in this material world there is no escape unless we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, from the sex impulse. It is not possible. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa... When one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he'll reject all this nonsense: "What is this?" Bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu. He'll spite (spit): "Eh! Get out. Is that enjoyment?" It is possible for a Kṛṣṇa conscious... No other can do it. And that is the bondage. He'll have to work hard for maintaining sex issues. And so long you are bound up by the karmas, you have to accept another body and then continue.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Now there is shortage of all the important material the world over. The way we are exploiting the earth, perhaps we'll be short, falling short of everything.

Prabhupāda: Therefore our Trivikrama Mahārāja is reminding me... When I was lecturing in Berkeley University, one Indian student asked me, "Swamijī, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement will benefit? We require technology." So I replied that "You have come to beg technology; I have come to give them, not to beg from them."

Trivikrama: To teach. "I've come to give."

Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato... So our, this contribution of India's culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you'll be finished. But here-svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And the marriage party was waiting, and he was sleeping, and when the opportune moment came, "Get up! Get up! Now you have to sit down in the..."

Dr. Patel: I think Nehru married at the age of eighteen years.

Prabhupāda: He was up-to-date, English-returned. He was Gandhi's student.

Dr. Patel: These boys make love and marry. And we marry and make love. (laughs) This is the background of Indian womanhood, this religion. That keeps up the sacredness of the Hindu marriage.

Prabhupāda: No, everywhere there is religion, in Europe, America. Church. Church. Marriage was taken in church.

Dr. Patel: The Catholic marriages are indissolvable. They can't remarry. Now they have done it.

Prabhupāda: Now you have also done in India, so many.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇam adaḥ (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).

Dr. Patel: It was a challenge to one scientist who taught nonsense...

Prabhupāda: Well... What...?

Dr. Patel: One man challenged by me, a student, you know, "Sir, you said there is no God. Can you make a living cell even of a..., not of, much less animal, of a plant even?" And he looked with open mouth. "Can you make a single cell living? Cell of. Not of the whole tree." That is nature. That is God. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.35). Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntarastham. Paramāṇu. Āṇu. Then paramāṇu means smaller than the atom. Six paramāṇus makes one āṇu. Atomic dimension is the combination of six paramāṇus. So in that paramāṇu also the Lord is there.

Dr. Patel: He made it, and then He entered into it. That is what the Veda says.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Antara-stha. Yac-chakti... There is verse. The Paramātmā. Paramātmā is there. The whole human life is meant for understanding all this and glorifying the Lord. And they are wasting the life by imitating the hog. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujaṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ means stool; bhujā means eating. Yac-chaktir eṣa... What is that? There is a verse. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu... (Bs. 5.35).

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is the test. Guru... The supreme guru is Kṛṣṇa, and anyone canvasses for Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, guru's represent... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya. That guru will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. I am now guru. I am Kṛṣṇa. I am avatāra." That is rascaldom. So if you want such rascal, then you'll be cheated. (aside:) Who is bringing prasāda? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Everything is there. Read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. Don't misinterpret. That has killed our culture. They do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā, and they stand: "I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. Even recently I had been in Gandhi's aśrama. It is a desert. He was student of Bhagavad-gītā. Yes. Vinobhaji also never teaches Kṛṣṇa, but he's a Gītā-pravacana. What Gītā-pravacana without Kṛṣṇa? Everyone is doing that, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. What is that Bhagavad-gītā?

Guest (2): A glass without water.

Prabhupāda: If big, big men do like that, then what the followers will do? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). This is the position of our country, that everyone has misguided in the name of leadership, and people are in bewilderment—"What to do?"

Guest (2): But different... I mean... It was predicted that this may happen.

Prabhupāda: What?

Guest (2): There would be Kali-yuga. Then there will be Satya-yuga after. Is it not so, predicted?

Prabhupāda: I don't think. That is stated, what you are saying, that in Kali-yuga people will be so fallen. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). They are mandāḥ, bad, or very slow. Mandāḥ. And they have got their own manufactured ideas, sumanda-matayo. Not only mandāḥ, but they have got their own manufactured idea. And manda-bhāgyā, unfortunate. And upadrutāḥ. The first thing, three things, upadrava, disturbances... One disturbance is there will be no rainfall, and therefore there will be scarcity of food, and government will tax like anything. People will be so harassed that they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. this is awaiting in the Kali-yuga. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you'll be saved.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Saṅkīrtana.

Guest (2): Saṅkīrtana. So this I will be discussing with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. And there are about 1500 students in that school from...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana can be performed. So the movie, how long it is?

Bhavabhūtī: It's a one and a half hour movie, and we're in about eight minutes of it.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Eight minutes. Showing our books? That I want. Let them read our books. Then they'll understand what we are.

Bhavabhūtī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I just visited also our boat program on the Ganga. Śravanānanda has the boat. They distributed 15,000 Back to Godheads in one month in Bengali. Fifteen thousand. So I have challenged Śravanānanda. I told him we're going to distribute more Hindi books on this side of the country.

Prabhupāda: No, there the Hindi is not...

Bhavabhūtī: But here in this side we're going to start to distribute this Hindi Back to Godhead very profusely, just like in America.

Prabhupāda: And what about Gītār Gān?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes. Also that's included. Fifteen thousand BTG's and Gītār Gāns included. The boys are so enthusiastic now...

Prabhupāda: In the boat?

Bhavabhūtī: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Rāmeśvara: Even in the eyes there is a little moisture as if the eye is...

Prabhupāda: Very natural. So I see the dolls... Intelligent boys, they can do it, educated, intelligent. Very good, nice. So many students are engaged...

Rāmeśvara: This is like pottery. Spinning on the wheel, he is designing the ornaments for the crown. Each doll of the demigods has a different crown. That's how they make them, on a spinning wheel just like a potter.

Prabhupāda: They are devising their own way. Eh?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: This is part of the Universal Form exhibit. This is Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: Oh, lying down.

Rāmeśvara: Very big. He's bigger than a human being.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: This is Mr. Sharma, the head technician at the airport, radar.

Prabhupāda: When I went to your MIT, I challenged that "Where is that technological department where a dead man can be brought into life?" It was interesting speech. The students gathered. This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Do you know that? This body is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā as machine. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā.

īśvaraḥ sarva bhūtānāṁ

hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati

bhrāmāyan sarva bhūtāni

yantrārūḍhāni māyayā

(BG 18.61)

Just like you make a tour by driving a motorcar, similarly, the jīvātmā is touring all over the universe riding on this machine. This is machine. So... Aiye aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (guest enters) (Hindi) Aiye. We have arranged for your prasāda. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is machine. This body is machine made by the material energy, as all other machine are made by the kṣitir-āp-tejo marud-vyoma, earth, water, air, fire. These are the ingredients, any machine. Suppose it is made of iron. So iron is another form of earth. So as all other machines are made with these material elements, similarly, this body is also made with the material elements, and it is yantra. It is particularly mentioned. But this yantra is not ordinary yantra. You cannot make it. But it is yantra. It is made by somebody, and the ingredients are the material elements. So where is that technology? It is made of matter, and it is made by somebody as other machines are made with the material... (break) ...and made by somebody. So where is that advancement of technology? A motorcar, when stops, technology department can repair it and again it runs. So where is that advancement of technology that when this machine stops you run on, again repair it? This was my challenge in your institution. Can you answer this? You have got so many advancement, the nuclear energy and everything. But why you cannot give life to the machine stopped? Why?

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful." This is going on. And the real technology, that "I am not this body; I have been put into this condition, and I am transmigrating from one body to another"—there is no such knowledge. For the temporary.... (break) ...temporary thing, flickering thing, like children. Children is very busy on the beach, making sand palaces, and he's very happy. So our position is like that. But we should be intelligent enough that "There is our real life, permanent life, not this temporary life," that "This life is temporary. There is another life." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "This śarīra is not..." Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. So many things.... The Bhagavad-gītā is full of information, but we don't take advantage. We are so unfortunate. And it is our country. This is Indian culture. We have given up this. (Hindi) Gandhiji, he was supposed to be a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. And the such a big āśrama, Sevagrama. Where is Bhagavad-gītā arcana? Boliye.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is... You... You have been taught that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that—avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11)—that "Kṛṣṇa may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." They won't believe a word of Kṛṣṇa, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gītā and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life—you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. More than. Eh? Seven lakhs?

Guest (11) (Indian man): But mostly they are in America. Also in that number in Japan?

Prabhupāda: No, America. And opposition is also in America. No, Europe and America, they are taking.

Guest (10): Opposition is natural. Because you are converting their churches into temples.

Prabhupāda: No, there are many... First thing is that my students are advised, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to the point of smoking cigarette and drinking tea, and no gambling." But this is their life. How they can give up this? That is... It is a shock. Therefore they say, "brainwashing," that "How a gentleman can give up all these things?" Many... No many. A few of my students, they left. They said that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They left. They could not tolerate even. So I do not make any compromise. That you want to become my student you have to give up these things. So the responsible parents, they are appreciating that "My son is now purified." But some of them, there are...

Guest (2): They feel that you are kidnapping their children. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are kidnapping. His father, mother came in Calcutta. His mother asked, "Swamiji, please return my son." And "Take your son."

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "The Vedas are directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, and are self-born. This we have heard from Yamarāja."

Prabhupāda: "This we have heard." This is authority. If you have heard from the authority, that is knowledge. If you have manufactured, that is nonsense. Iti śuśruma. You'll find Arjuna also speaking with Kṛṣṇa-iti śuśruma. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he is such a learned scholar. He also—iti śuś..., that... This is our knowledge: to hear and receive the knowledge from higher authority. In the ordinary way also, the students go to the college, they hear from the professor. That is knowledge. He does not go to a pan-walla to hear. One who is authorized, professor, we hear from him. Similarly, we have to get knowledge from the authority. So supreme authority is Kṛṣṇa. So hear from Him. Then it is knowledge. Otherwise tad ajñānam yad anyathā. What is that? Tad anya...?

Pradyumna: Etaj jñānam iti proktam.

Prabhupāda: Iti proktam and yad anyathā ajñānam: "Besides this," anyathā, "that is all ajñānam." So we can take perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. But we deny: "Why shall I take?" That is our disease. The same thing: "I am also Kṛṣṇa. I can also speak like Kṛṣṇa."

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: But still, after ten years the Gauḍīya Math still has not learned.

Prabhupāda: Hm? They cannot. They... Those who are intelligent, they are making something, Śrīdhara Mahārāja and others. But this man was envious, this Tīrtha Mahārāja, because... He advertised that he is the only favorite student of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. (laughs) But spiritually he was empty. Materially he was capable, how to manage things. But spiritually he was zero. That Prabhupāda also knew and everyone knows. He had no spiritual understanding. Materially he helped Guru Mahārāja how to organize. Therefore he liked him, that "This man is expert manager."

Rāmeśvara: We have devotees like that. We also have devotees who spiritually have trouble coming to the programs and even chanting, but still, they like to give them service, so we engage them anyway.

Prabhupāda: That is also qualification. That is also qualification. Some way or other, if there is some service, it goes to the credit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. The foolish person may not know that "I am imperceptibly advancing even during my, this material life," but Kṛṣṇa takes. Just like Pūtanā. She gave service by allowing her breast to be sucked by Kṛṣṇa. Although her intention was to kill, but Kṛṣṇa took her as mother: "She has given Me service." This is Kṛṣṇa. "This rascal does not know that nobody can kill Me, but on some plea or other, she has given her breast open to be sucked by Me, and I have done it. Therefore she is My mother. She must get the promotion like Mother Yaśodā." This is Kṛṣṇa. He is very anxious to deliver us. So any little service done, He accepts. "All right, come on. You are accepted." This is Kṛṣṇa. Little service. "Let him do something." So kind. He comes for serving you.(?) He speaks, "Rascal, you do this. Surrender to Me and do something. You'll be relived from this janma-mṛtyu vyādhi." "No." Hog, dogs, they are—what is called—obstinate. The hog, living in dirty place, eating stool, and if you try to deliver from this, he'll not: "No. No. I am living here happily. Why you are disturbing me?" This is the... "Why you are trying to wash my brain? This is very good life."

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking to show that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is very old.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: There are temples all over India, and... A movie about Vaisnavism, not so much just Hare Kṛṣṇa, but Vaisnavism in general. Now, in the colleges in America they are always eager to have movies about Hinduism, Muhammadanism, Buddhism, for showing to their students, but whenever they have a movie about Hinduism, it is all bogus, many gods, many demigod worship, nature worship. And the people who make these movies for college classes have no conception. So I was thinking, if we make a scholarly movie about Vaisnavism...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do. You can do.

Rāmeśvara: ...which will convince people that chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is very accepted in India...

Prabhupāda: You take... You take this. I'll give you hint. You can develop it. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). The beginning is hearing about Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavatam. Big, big sabhā, you'll find many Vaiṣṇavas chanting. They are reciting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and hundreds and thousands are hearing.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Hitler also did. Phāṇsa lāge dubudh bage: "If five men combine together, even the ghost will go away." (laughs) So everyone was against the Britishers. How they can keep their...? And nature's law also. They exploited the whole world for the benefit of few persons in London, and that is very bad.

Gurudāsa: You told me they wanted to be paid in gold by the Home Bill just to deplete the economy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Home Bill. Because I was student of economics. So Home Bill. Home Bill means all the Englishmen were engaged in India, either government, railway, industry, factory, and so on, so on, so on. Whatever... They have got some charges. So all the bills were sent to London, and they made a Home Bill. Their home is in England, so they won't take payment here. They'll take payment at home. And the government there, they'll present the whole bill to India and debit India's account in gold. That means, other words, all the payments which were to be made to the Englishmen in India, they were paid at home in gold.

Gurudāsa: So that means they would spend at home instead of India for the benefit of themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No Englishmens were allowed to domicile in India. No. Strictly. But if... As soon as they make home, it will be America. The Americans made their home in America, so a war of independence was... They have experienced that, so did not allow the Englishmen to make India home. "You come here, work and take your payment. Can't come down."(?) This was the policy, Home Bill. And India's gold was kept in London. So gradually all the gold finished. Very, very crooked policy they followed. They... They... In Muhammadan period there was no such peaceful exploitation. These Muhammadans, they wanted to become lumma, kukum(?). Bas. That's all. They were satisfied. But their princely expenditure was done in India. When Shah Jahan constructed the Taj Mahal, heavy expenditure, but the payment was received by the Indians. And here a railway, very smart railway bridge is constructed that... The payment was paid in England. This was the policy. Every even screw, iron screw, was imported from England.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why American patronize Pakistan?

Gargamuni: Because... Against Russia. India is with Russia. And China... Also the Pakistanis... When I was in Pakistan, they have great love for the Chinese people. When I was there it was more than the Americans. They liked the Chinese more than the Americans. 'Cause I went to the Karachi University 'cause I thought we could start some preaching there. So I met the professor of philosophy and he had agreed that we could give some lecture, but not on Indian culture but on yoga or something. So the students there were very much... They liked the Chinese. They were always talking, "Oh, China." So China is also opposed to Russia. So in this way the sides were taken. But it's a hellish place there. It's all sand.

Prabhupāda: Karachi.

Gargamuni: Yes. Very hot. We used to get our fruit... There was no place where we could eat, so we used to buy fruit and nuts at the Empress Market, very big market.

Prabhupāda: Dacca.

Gargamuni: No, in Karachi. A very huge market. They have, very good, these grapefruits. They're very sweet there.

Prabhupāda: Grape.

Gargamuni: Grapefruit. You know, like orange?

Prabhupāda: Oh, ah.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And you can start a center there. That will be very good. And when they see that Americans are taking, the Muhammadans will be attracted.

Gargamuni: Yes. No, I found them... They weren't so fanatic. The Bengali Mussulmans are not like the others. They're very nice.

Prabhupāda: Educated.

Gargamuni: Well, I spoke with students.

Prabhupāda: Oh. They're educated.

Gargamuni: Yes. And most of the business and industry is in the hands of the Mussulmans. But they... We walked around like this, and there was no trouble—at that time.

Prabhupāda: They have got a Bengali language.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Bangladesh. It will be great service.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's a few people asking for darśana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's one boy we've been preaching to. He's a student in sociology.

Prabhupāda: Let him come. No "logy" before Kṛṣṇa conscious. All "logy" finished.

Rāmeśvara: Hari-śauri, I turned this off. You going to stay here, Hari-śauri? So I should take it out? Leave it?

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) You belong to Orissa.

Guest (1): Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Bhuvaneśvara.

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is your philosophy?

Guest (1): Sir, we are coming just to have a darśana from you. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Hari-śauri: This young man here is a student. He's studying for his MA in sociology. He has a few questions.

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Hari-śauri: If you have some question, you can ask.

Prabhupāda: You are a student.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...sees practically.

Gargamuni: These people, though, who follow these processes, they don't dedicate their lives. They follow it for two years, then they get married and they forget the whole thing. While they're students...

Prabhupāda: It is a hobby.

Gargamuni: Yes. In college. In college they do it, and when they're out of college they get married and go to work. They forget it.

Rāmeśvara: Many ordinary businessmen and middle-class people have spent the money and practiced Transcendental Meditation for a little bit, and they say it has helped them. It has given them peace of mind for a little bit.

Prabhupāda: That can give temporarily.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The woman sannyāsī, Rāmakrishna Mission has.

Rāmeśvara: He's... What is it? Śivānanda? Divine Light. They advertise, "Come to our summer camp for yoga practice, and our women will teach you." They are swamis.

Gargamuni: His students sued him one time because he preaches brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: I have seen their sannyāsī kissing woman on the street.

Rāmeśvara: On the street.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He came to see me in London, and I saw in the street there was some woman; he is kissing her. I have seen sannyāsī.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes. Especially in India now, that's all they want to read, is anything on technology, any field.

Rāmeśvara: They have been brainwashed.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Western country also. Western country, now this higher English, higher mathematics, higher philosophy is no student admission. Nobody's going. They're going to close.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Philosophy and all the arts.

Prabhupāda: No, anything higher study, don't care for it.

Rāmeśvara: It's true. Technical studies and business...

Prabhupāda: Our Hayagrīva is not getting any employment. Nobody's interested. "Eh. What is the use of higher mathematics, all this, these things? We have to earn money."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're charging.

Gargamuni: But they'll buy them.

Prabhupāda: What is the use of philosophizing? Even that Professor O'Connell? He came to me, that "Why don't you give some students?" Means he's going to be dismissed very soon. But he has no students.

Hari-śauri: He came and asked Prabhupāda why don't we send our men to the university for Ph.D's.

Prabhupāda: I could understand his position. Now he's going to be dismissed.

Rāmeśvara: No, it's a fact that people go to college in America, but they cannot get good jobs when they graduate. If they have not taken specialized training in engineering or something...

Prabhupāda: That is technical, technology.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Who has written that?

Gargamuni: That's Dr. Krishna Gopal Gosvāmī.

Rāmeśvara: Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Calcutta University.

Prabhupāda: He has got good experience because university students they have become so rascal. In the university they don't care for professors, teachers. Don't care.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Then the professor and the head of the Department of Bengali and the dean of the faculty of Fine Arts and Music at the University of Calcutta says, "The world, tormented by psychic troubles like avarice, hate, and other baser qualities of the mind, will never escape from utter annihilation of the soul unless it finds refuge in His Divine Grace. I have particularly read some portions of this English translation of Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and I think this book is capable of saving mankind from the clutches of māyā. I have no doubt that the ISKCON will lead the world to the path of divine grace."

Gargamuni: He's a very big scholar, too. He's a Ph.D.

Prabhupāda: No, all of them Ph.D.'s. All...

Room Conversation with Sannyasis -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is the business of ācārya, sampradāya-rakṣana, to save the sampradāya from falling down. Sampradāya. Sampradāya rakṣana.

Rāmeśvara: After centuries of rascaldom you are giving them the first clear choice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was the desire of my Guru Mahārāja. I am just trying.

Satsvarūpa: Another professor that was met is going to with ten students... I have his name, a Professor Kalewart from the University of Loeben in Belgium. He's supposed to go to Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Mandir on February lst with ten people.

Prabhupāda: He has gone?

Satsvarūpa: No, on February 1st.

Gargamuni: He should stay in our guesthouse.

Prabhupāda: So inform them, "You come."

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Our presentation is simplified. That is the beauty.

Brahmānanda: Yes. That's what he appreciated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not make the things cumbersome.

Rāmeśvara: So that no one understands.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Vyāghra mane śārdula. One student asked teacher, "What is the meaning of vyāghra?" He said "Śārdula." Means vyāghra is already a difficult word, and he presented another difficult word.

Nanda-kumāra: They don't actually know anything, so they have to speak with so much...

Prabhupāda: All rascals. Therefore I call them as... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokaloka. Bokaloka. So I was thinking, "Why he's..." Even Rabindranath Tagore, he's a Bokaloka. So I was thinking that "Everyone is bokaloka?" Now I can understand that everyone is a bokaloka, mūḍha. So enthusiastically do everything. You are the beginner of this movement, one of the pioneers. So you should be more vigorous. You should not lag behind anyone. You voluntarily joined. You first joined in Tompkinson Square. So keep that spirit. What is the situation in Africa?

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You can... Yes. You say that "Somebody does like, somebody does like, somebody..." No. Full surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66).

Guest (2): No conditional. Conditional means that we have hidden here any enemy to fight over his property.

Prabhupāda: If I would have compromised, then many millions of students I would have got. Anyone comes to me—"First surrender."

Guest (2): But Guruji, kindly excuse me. There is Droṇa and Ekalavya.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, but...

Guest (2): But if I have got the concentration, I can find you in me.

Prabhupāda: That is special case.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say that Kṛṣṇa devotees.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa devotee... You are saying that your Orissa is very much great advanced in understanding Kṛṣṇa, and your Orissa man is asking, "What is God?" This is contradictory. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there was no question to ask, "What is God?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). He should have known. But you have forgotten. Admit this.

Guest (1): Oh, definitely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore you have to learn from the very beginning. In foreign countries, Indian students, they say, "Oh, Swamiji, what will be done by this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We require technology." They say like that.

Guest (2): Indian students.

Prabhupāda: We have rejected. Otherwise why there was so much talk, yata mat tata pat? Why yata mat tata pat? The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is saying, mām ekam. And yata mat? What is this nonsense? Admit that you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, or you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why bring this all question—"What is God? Yata mat tata pat. Why Kṛṣṇa was killed?" Kṛṣṇa can be killed?

Guest (2): He asked?

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Gītā-pravacana.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Gītā-pra..., is Vinobha.

Guest (1): What students can do? In the topic of..., what students can do?

Prabhupāda: You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Because Gandhi or Vinobha or Vivekananda or Aurobindo, they did not come in the paramparā system. They have made themselves important by their own ideas. That we want to check. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You cannot make any amendment or correction in the Bhagavad-gītā. But these people, unfortunately, they take advantage of the popularity of Bhagavad-gītā and give their own comment.

Mr. Pandiya: To suit their purposes.

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is the dangerous... And they are considered as big men, and people follow, and they are misled. Otherwise, in India, so much fallen condition due to these rascal leaders. That I am speaking repeatedly, although it may be very harsh. But we have to say that. Everyone has distorted. Gandhi says Kurukṣetra, "this body." Where is the chance of talking of "this body," the Kurukṣetra? Has he not?

Guest (1): Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm. Let them... If the university authorities agree to teach students...

Satsvarūpa: Text orders.

Prabhupāda: The text order. That will be nice.

Satsvarūpa: Yes I have some of those from the United States. Here is one. Twenty-two Bhagavad-gītās was ordered on December lst.

Prabhupāda: That will be nice. Let them introduce as text for studying by the students.

Satsvarūpa: That we can still push.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A new batch of students will come-new books will be sold. Text books.

Hari-śauri: Every new batch...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...requires more books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every year, the new batches of students, and you'll have opportunities of selling a new set. If the university professors cooperate—they must; they should—then we'll have every year a large number of books sold to the...

Hari-śauri: If you bring more small books... Like you were going to do Padma Purāṇa...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we can give.

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we can give.

Hari-śauri: ...and the Upaniṣads, like that. Those will also be very...

Prabhupāda: That will be nice. I was training, but they have not become so expert. As I am doing Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad..., they could do Padma Purāṇa, Viṣṇu Purāṇa, Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa in the same way, but our students are not so expert.

Hari-śauri: And no one can give the purports that you give.

Prabhupāda: A little progress, they think they have become a great scholar—"Now we are for bhajana. Here there is no chance of bhajana. Let us go and bhajana." Means... Ei chure paka. Ei chure means a unripe jackfruit. Unripe jackfruit has become yellow. Means a stunted growth. You know stunted growth?

Satsvarūpa: Something stops growing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Growth is not there, like a dwarf, and he has become fifty years old. Vidvatvaṁ vayasaṁ-vinā... No, vayasaṁ vidvatvaṁ vinā. Where is Nitāi now? You know?

Satsvarūpa: I heard he was in Vṛndāvana.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: No. God is not bound to prove His example character to you. You are a rascal.

Satsvarūpa: Then how will I know what to follow?

Prabhupāda: You learn! You come to me. I'll teach you and beat you with shoes and teach you. (laughter) Come to me. Why I am here? You come! I shall beat you with shoes and teach you. Then you'll learn. You require some beating with shoes. You are a bad student. So I'll do that. "Come on." Yes, I keep always my shoes for my bad students.

Gurukṛpā: You can beat me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'd like that.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. A student who is more chastised is advanced. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "My spiritual master saw Me a grand fool. Therefore he has chastised Me." That is the position. The more we remain a grand fool, then more we may advance in spiritual consciousness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. He was mūrkha?

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one thing they're doing against us more and more in the West is taking the testimony of an ex-disciple of yours, and he will say, "I was a Hare Kṛṣṇa..."

Prabhupāda: "Because he is rascal, therefore he's 'ex,' excommunicated. My Guru Mahārāja kicked him out, so what is the value of his word?"

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Gurukṛpā: What they do now is... What they've been doing is they have all these pills, and they give them to people to experiment, to see what the reaction is.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is going on. Big, big patent medicine, they will explain scientifically and give to the doctor and make experiment, and they will go on making experiment. I know this. This is their business. They'll write, they will call for the medical students—they have learned new, new words—and they'll pay to make a literature with bombastic scientific word, and they'll prepare literature. This literature will be distributed and give their medicine, and they may pay them for false propaganda. This is going on to introduce new patent medicine. I know that. Simply water they will inject to get money. The patients have come, innocent, illiterate—"How want to be...? Do you want to be cured very quickly or little less?" He's a laborer. He says, "Yes, sir, if you cure me." "So then injection will be required." He has no disease, and they'll give some water injection, yes, and take fee. Because as soon as there is question injection, he'll charge at least four rupees, five rupees. He has no disease. They will inject water and take four, five rupees. In India I have seen.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (2) (Indian man): No, what is that? That is nothing. We see...

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the principle, why they are opposing it. They are not these transcendental meditator that here going and coming home, and they are doing all same, because they have no restriction. But my students, as soon as they come to this, they are not, no more going home. They will not touch any food, yes, because they have seen there is a (indistinct).

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Practically begin. Any boy who comes to me, he's lost forever to his family. In other religion there is no such thing.

Guest (1): No, they go back again and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go back, they do everything. They remain the same thing, simply rubberstamp. That's all. (Bengali) ...an actual fact. So they are seeing it is dangerous. They say, "It is epidemic. Brainwash." (Bengali) ...that once gone, this camp, Hare Kṛṣṇa camp, never return. Finished. (Bengali) ...compromise nei... Individually, family-wise, when the boy goes, he's gone forever. (Bengali) Hari-śauri! (Bengali) (Bengali) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66).

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They have "mation." What is that? "Cremation"? (break)

Satsvarūpa: This year in the United States several temples had very good success by advertising a cooking class in the college, because many times the students, they don't want to come when they see Bhagavad-gītā or bhakti-yoga. But they would see "Indian Cooking," and they would go, and in the class they would teach how to make cooking, but then they would preach, "And so this food should be offered to God, and this is the Bhagavad-gītā." In this way it was much...

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is very nice.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. We had also classes like this in Paris. People were coming just to learn how to cook. And in that way they could hear the philosophy.

Gargamuni: Prabhupāda, these are the vehicles that I can get for three thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to repair.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Hindu College?

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Satsvarūpa: I think you wrote somewhere that Sanskrit should be the national...

Prabhupāda: That is very difficult. No, I... They wanted to make a national language. There was fight, great fight. Therefore I suggested, "Why not make Sanskrit language?" Everyone will adore.

Satsvarūpa: Because English is the language of the invaders; Sanskrit...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have no objection, English. But if they wanted that national language, why not take Sanskrit? I am international. I don't believe in this national or statewise. I never believed. This is very good idea, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). God is the proprietor. He is the original father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Why do they not take this philosophy? They have attempted this United Nation organization. And where is the philosophy how to make one state? That is cheating them. Why not make one state?

Hari-śauri: They actually don't desire that.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Three big scientists' working. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah... Rūpānuga Prabhu is writing an article. This is all about this life and matter mainly. And there will be an article by Rūpānuga Prabhu called the..., from psychology. He said the..., some sort nature of consciousness from psychological point of view.

Prabhupāda: He was a student of psychology?

Pradyumna: Yes. Rūpānuga was...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And...

Prabhupāda: Our Girirāja also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Psychology is very important.

Prabhupāda: Girirāja can also write one article.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Every three girls?

Satsvarūpa: Should have one teacher, not just one teacher for all of them.

Prabhupāda: At least ten students one teacher.

Satsvarūpa: That's to live with them and everything? They think that's a little taxing, that the girl won't get such personal supervision.

Prabhupāda: What is that personal? We had a tutorial class system.

Satsvarūpa: So it's not necessary to have it so small, classes. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, they talked with him, and he likes the idea. He said he can give them rooms in Bombay where they could do this. They think that it's not good that the girls be in the same building as the boys, such as in Vṛndāvana, because then...

Prabhupāda: No, they are on the upstairs.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: While slowly, then life will be automatically finished. Instead of seeing success, he'll be... He will die. Sarthe sarthe dal puriya gelun.(?) One man was to go to a fair, so he began to dress himself nicely. So dressing, dressing, in the meantime the fair is finished. (laughs) This is their program. You require water immediately: "All right, after three hundred millions of-water." This is science, all rascals. I use very strong word, but actually... Simply promising, no solution of problems. They do not know even what is what. But big, big words, jugglery of words... They are themselves rascals, and some rascals praise them, "Oh, you are..." Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What they can do? Real problem, there is no solution. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Big, big scientists, why they not make provision that "My dear students, when I shall be dying, you give this pill and I shall again...," or "I am manufacturing another brain like me. You can utilize it"? Where is that science? The scientific brain of Einstein, he could not prepare another brain like his. Hm? Was he able to do that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. No. They have to...

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Nobody before tried to... (chuckling) So...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nobody's saying as boldly as Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So if I would not have students like you, they would have taken me as crazy man. But now I have engaged you to prove them rascals. That is my ambition. (break) ...life from matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Before 1828 in the history of chemistry, there was these scientists. They thought that something, what happens in the body, in the living body, is different than chemistry in the physics. That is called vital theory.

Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā says, nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ (BG 2.23). So what is there within the physical world that is not burned by fire? Where is that thing? But these rascals have no knowledge. It is clearly said indirectly. This is called negative definition: "It is not this." And because he has no brain to understand, so therefore Kṛṣṇa is explaining in the negative way that "You cannot cut by any weapon; you cannot burn it; it is never dried up." Because any physical thing, it can be cut, it can be dried up, it can be burned, it is just opposite. So many ways He has described, but the rascal will not accept. Find out what is that which is never burned. Anything you take, even big, big iron ore, they're burning. And it is clearly said, "It is not burned." Therefore they are thinking there is no living being in the sun planet. Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogam. I told... This is nonbeliever class, rascal class.

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The learned scholars, they used to live in the forest. Vyāsadeva was writing in śāmyaprāśa cottage. (chuckling) That is university. And no university can produce such scholar or student, not imperfect. They're all rascals. What are the values of these MA, Ph.D? (break) It is humbug. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Actually they're vimūḍhān. Mūḍha means rascal and vimūḍhān means special rascals. (laughs) Māyā-sukhāya, for some sense gratification-big, big arrangement. And next life he's going to be a dog. That's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking of these rascals, vimūḍhān, especially rascals, that they are arranging so gorgeous thing for material happiness and forgetting their spiritual identity." Śoce: "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me there is no problem." Tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. "Because they are bereft of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are doing, engaged in these big, big projects, although (they) live for twenty years or fifty years utmost, perhaps. And eternal life? They do not know." Vimūḍhān: "specially rascal." The cats and dogs are rascals, but they are animals. They cannot know anything. But they got this human form of life, and still, they are acting as rascal. Therefore vimūḍhān, "specially rascal." Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Such a rascal. (break) ...where charity is given, to be given, give him. That's all. Dātavyam. (break) "...by the people, for the people." And what is the people condition? They are naked. They have no good house, no food. And these men, they must have very good bungalow, very good, comfortable life. This is Kali-yuga, means "Plunder the citizens, take money from them, and live comfortably at the cost of the poor citizens."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But in, say in America, they argue that everybody's educated now. In America...

Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.

Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ (SB 1.2.19). When one is situated as a devotee, then this base quality, rajas-tamaḥ, ignorance and passion, the symptoms: kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye. Kāma, lusty desires, and greediness. Sex desire, strong sex desire or satisfy the senses, eating too much, lobha, greediness—these things go. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā bhagavaty uttama... When one is situated in devotional service, tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. These are rajas-tamo... These are the symptoms of rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye, ceta etair anāviddham (SB 1.2.19). The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he is to be understood... He's in the sattva-guṇa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he'll be pleased. Prasīdati. In this way, gradual step... So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varṇāśrama, but at least there must be some idea. Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, "Give us some student." You know that?

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business. So those who are engaged in the same business, so that is, Ṛṣabhadeva said, "It is not good. What is the use of same business again and again. You are not disgusted?" To repeat the birth is very good business? To enter into the womb of some mother and remain there for some time in so packed up condition and suffering, to forget. But acts in such a way that he'll have to take birth again. Na sādhu manye. Ṛṣabhadeva (says), "This is not good business." "Then what is wrong?" Just like some student in Hawaii University, "What is wrong if I become a dog?" This is education, university. They do not understand what is the wrong in this business of repetition of birth and death. So what is education? They cannot understand even that what is the suffering in birth and death. And repetition again and again and again, the same business, for āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, eating, sleeping, sex, and protection. He cannot understand. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carva... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Through external energy they are trying to be happy. What is that happiness? Durāśaya. That's not happiness. That is misconception of happiness. So long you have to die and enter into the womb of a mother and again come out and again begin another chapter of life, what is this happiness? Hm? Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. No, this is the position. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "It is not good business." Na sādhu manye. Now what is the wrong there? Just like the Hawaii student. Wrong is there that you'll get a body and to get body means suffering, any body, whatever body you'll get. Yata ātmano 'yam asann api. Although you can say, "All right, suffering, it will end with the body." Just like modern science. "Everything will be ended with the body." But not... It will appear in different way. But at least so long you live, you have to suffer. Asann api. The body will not endure, but the suffering will continue. That they do not understand. This is called mode of ignorance, mūḍha. So we should not lose the chance of ending our suffering. We must know what is the suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha (BG 13.9). Duḥkha means suffering. And the real suffering is to take birth and then again die. And between birth and death there is old age and disease.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, they were very good gentlemen. Dr. Urquhart was a godly man. He was so nice.

Satsvarūpa: Isn't he the one who said the woman's brain is thirty-two...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. I remember. He told, the woman's brain, thirty-four ounce, man's brain, up to sixty-four ounce. He told. I remember. He was very saintly man, Dr. Urquhart. And before that there was one principal. He's Watt, Mr. Watt. He was the roughest man. He'd fight with the students like guṇḍā, Mr. Watt. But he was very good manager, principal.

Satsvarūpa: Did they try to make you Christian? Like that?

Prabhupāda: No. There was Bible class, compulsory, half an hour, from one to half past one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Huh? No. They used to supply yearly one Bible, very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Free. But no one became a Christian.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No one. In India, in those days... (break) ...all the Jains. Jains... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only vaiśya community.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Some were, not all. And the Muhammadans, the could not convert any gentleman to Muhammadanism. Maybe one or two, say. Very... And similarly, Christian also. No high-class man became Christian. One or two. That is for some other purpose. Just like in Scottish Churches College, the Christian Indians were given more preference. There was one Mr. Raya. He would not speak in Bengali. Even if some Bengali student would like to talk with him Bengali, he would answer in English. (laughs) He was so sharp. (Bengali) (Hindi) You understand Hindi any of you? There is a song in the Howrah Bridge, pontoon bridge. So when this Howrah Bridge..., not this bridge. Up to 1900... When my daughter was married, in 1941, up to that time there was a bridge connecting Howrah and Calcutta, pontoon bridge. That we were seeing from childhood, from our birth. So this was an astonishment in India. They wrote song, (Hindi), that "How wonderful bridge this sāheb company...," because India was being governed by East Indian Company... After mutiny, Queen Victoria took charge. Otherwise the British government was known as Company Raja Sahib, East India Company. So the East India Company, they constructed this temple, er, bridge. So there is a song, (Hindi), like that. So this East India Company... Therefore this railway was known, "East India Railway." That is the first beginning of railway, from Calcutta to Burdwan, beginning of Ind... There was no railway in India.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Well-to-do also. They are well-to-do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many of them, yes. They're all professionals. So he's finding that there's good receptivity amongst the Indians and students he's working with. And he's working, developing this farm. He's making his headquarters the farm in Pennsylvania, and then he goes out and goes to all these centers that he's established, and then every week he comes for a few days to the farm and works with Paramānanda. They formed a committee of management to do everything jointly. Paramānanda's the president, and others are there, and Dhṛṣṭadyumna's a sannyāsī, so he goes there and gives lectures. It's New Varṣāṇā, so they have an idea to develop it just like Varṣāṇā. There's a mountain there, so they want to build a temple on the mountain.

Prabhupāda: Where is New Varṣāṇā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's Port Royal, Pennsylvania. The name is New Varṣāṇā.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wouldn't it establish? Give some prestige?

Prabhupāda: Do you think it will be a...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are also talking about some sort of exchange program, students coming from...

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja is giving Ph.D. Nobody cares for it. And nobody comes to take the Ph.D. These are all superficial.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not immediately necessary.

Prabhupāda: No. So you are coming from, now? Manipur.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm coming from Manipur. I made several preaching engagements in the law college, the colleges and universities in Manipur also.

Prabhupāda: So it was all successful?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They are very anxious to hear about the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is good.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. No more.

Rādhā-vallabha: So gurukula should do their own books.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Why... That one book is sufficient. Why more books about this?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, gurukula already has ten books, but they're printed very, very poorly.

Prabhupāda: Why ten books? Not a single student knows well English, neither Sanskrit, and ten books.

Rādhā-vallabha: These are the Americans, American boys, American gurukulas.

Prabhupāda: Why I do not know. You just discuss this. They do not learn anything, and we are printing books.

Rādhā-vallabha: Those books, they print themselves, the gurukula.

Prabhupāda: "Themself" means?

Rādhā-vallabha: They have a little... In Dallas they a little photostat, and Nandarāṇī would write and they would print it.

Prabhupāda: So it is waste of time, waste of money and waste of time.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prove that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it's not possible. So I also spoke in an Indian school in Bombay. There are about some three hundred students, plus professors. We even had a short kīrtana, Girirāja and about four five devotees, selling little books outside. So there was... They wanted us start with a kīrtana. So we started Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then they themselves started. The students started leading kīrtana. And I spoke on the... They all saw all the nice equipment...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. This propensity is there already. We are simply awakening. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found that in India, though, there are some people like that, but they are not as arrogant as... They are a little...

Prabhupāda: Because background is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sukṛtina. Sukṛtina. They're not so sinful. In India they're not so sinful as the Western. Sukṛtina. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. And in the Western countries they are simply acting sinfully. Now Kīrtanānanda was prosecuted because he is not killing cows.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.

Prabhupāda: Let them come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to study in Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or... Turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or... Turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad evetaro janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

These people. Bring important men, important student. Take this opportunity. Give them nice place so that they may not be uncomfortable. Give them good food.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore even little effort is giving great benefit. But we must know what that effort should be. Everything is there. We must take advantage of it. But we are not taking advantage. Now we have got good government, very nice. Now you should take advantage of the privileges which are there in India. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. If you take direction from Bhagavad-gītā, then you will get. The whole human society will be benefitted. That you do not know. That is the defect. Even big, big leaders, they profess to student of Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not know anything. Although it is clearly stated. Who is the leader in India who does not know Bhagavad-gītā? Even Morarji Desai, when he was to be arrested by leaders, government, he said "Wait, let me finish my reading of Bhagavad-gītā," is it not?

Mr. Rajda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is serious, but nobody has taken it seriously. Bhagavad-gītā is popular book. Everyone takes the Bhagavad-gītā and says, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." It is very simple thing. And if the leaders of the society, they set example, others will follow.

Mr. Rajda: Correct. That's correct. Serious effort should be made. Only lip service will not help. That is correct. No, I fully agree, and we shall definitely apply our mind to that. I am connected with this or I came into contact with this movement when the Juhu temple was demolished, and at that time, under standing committee and ten set of demands.(?) Ah, yes. Then Girirāja and some friends had come to me for cooperation.

Prabhupāda: So you have given a great service. Now it is not only demolished, it is standing there.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise... There is a Bengali song, māyār bośe jāccho bhese', Khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves... That's... Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Let them study Bhagavad-gītā seriously. Let there be serious student to understand, to explain, and everything will be... There must be sadācāra.

Room Conversation -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: This is 1.2. I think that verse is quoted here in the Gītā though.

Prabhupāda: So nice thing. Even little done, you get chance again. The students who are coming, give them nice place, nice food, nice intelligence. Organize Bombay. You will get many enlightened students, professors, doctors. "Come on, live with us."

Hari-śauri: It is quoted in the purport in connection with this,

nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti

pratyavāyo na vidyate

svalpam apy asya dharmasya

trāyate mahato bhayāt

(BG 2.40)

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Hari-śauri: (reads) "In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear."

Prabhupāda: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Gargamuni: These breezes are very nice here, better than, I think, in Māyāpur. Many breezes.

Prabhupāda: The sea breeze.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not so cool on the lower floors—where you are staying in the office.

Gargamuni: There no, it is hot. This is very good.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In those houses where you were formerly staying, it is not so like this at all.

Prabhupāda: Which house?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your old quarters. You don't get the advantage of the breeze.

Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes there is nasty breezes coming.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You don't understand, therefore I say you become a student. Understand it. That is our institution. If you don't want to understand, that is another thing.

Mr. Koshi: No. I try to understand, but I drink coffee and tea. I cannot...

Prabhupāda: Because you have not been taught by proper teacher.

Mr. Koshi: That I accept.

Prabhupāda: That is not your fault. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic injunction. So therefore our brahmacārī system. First of all one becomes brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). These things are there. Everything is there and we don't take advantage of this knowledge. We are after becoming dogs, that's all.

Mr. Koshi: But there are several millions like me.

Prabhupāda: That does not mean... Several zeros does not mean one. Millions of zeros does not mean one. Zero is zero. If several millions of zeros, adding, you cannot make one. That is not possible. One is required. And if you want after zero, you go on. But if you are after one, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, then you are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Don't after these zeros. Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is the... If you are after zeros, that is your business. Kṛṣṇa says "Come after one."

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All the Veda, all the students for four Vedas.

Guest (1): No, if it is a school, I can give it here in the library for research, because this will be a useful thing. They are not easily available, because published in '64. Originally it was published in 1906. After sixty years they are brought up the cheaper copy for edition by American collaboration. America has given the money. Therefore it is only costing forty rupees.

Girirāja: Are those printed here?

Guest (1): Printed here. Banarsidass, Lucknow or Kanpur. These are the Motilal Banarsidass-Delhi, Varanasi and Patna. And money was given by America(?).

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We read in the papers today that there is talk that Sanjay Gandhi and his mother may run from the country, because the government has launched many investigations into the malpractices of Sanjay Gandhi. So the government has ordered the security on all the borders to be very tight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the airports now they are making special security, especially to check any politicians who might try to escape the country, due to being investigated.

Guest (1): Their passports are also taken away. That's what I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were, in themselves, the most exalted, and now they are treated as criminals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Times of India you saw that starlight or side light or something, about Indira Gandhi. In today's paper, Indira Gandhi had gone to a ten-day function at one of the African embassies. She went with her daughter-in-law, and nobody even noticed her. Only fifteen minutes after she left the function did the host realize that Indira Gandhi had come. She went to a party, she stayed there, and she left and the host did not know that "Indira Gandhi is here." That shows how material nature changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana.(?) She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will be honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Prabhupāda: And anyone who is vidvān, then that will be honored everywhere.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. All the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there are persons who are not narādhama. For them there must be. Diamond shop is not for everyone, but there are some persons who can purchase diamonds. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). It is not meant for everyone. So this is India's culture. At least, these men should be conscientious that "Let this Bhagavad-gītā culture be maintained in pure form." There is cultural department government. They are sending dancing party. You see. Real culture. And to make show they will pose themselves as great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So we are making alone a little tiny effort, but it is being appreciated all over the world. That is our encouragement. Our books, our philosophy, our religion, America has accepted: "Yes, it is Indian. Enough." (?) It is not sentiment.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you can talk. It is not expected that everyone will be able to understand. It is not expected.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me." One, two, three, four-four items. If you do one item at least, your life becomes successful. Even this child can do this. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā and follow the principle—not at all difficult. It is not reserved for any particular class of men or country or society, such a nice thing, and the human body is meant for understanding this knowledge, not to imitate the cats and dogs, jumping. This is being done by the cats and dogs. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is meant for understanding this science. So this opportunity there is, but we are blocking them not to take this knowledge and try to understand how to jump like cats and dogs. Greatest disservice to the human society. We have got such chance, so instead of helping you to get the chance, if I mislead you another way, is it not greatest disservice?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, if this is fact, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), what we are doing for that? This is Bhagavad-gītā. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So when my body is destroyed, I am going... (break) ...from door to door, selling the books and sending money. We are pushing on our mission in the way. I am not getting any help neither from the government, from the public. And the record is there in the Bank of America, how much foreign exchange I am bringing. Even in this feeble health also, I am working four hours at least, at night. And they are also helping me. So this is our individual attempt. Why not come here? If you are actually very serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, why don't you come, cooperate? And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato... (SB 5.18.12). You cannot make public honest simply by legislation. That is not possible. Forget it. That is not possible. Harāv abhaktasya kuto.... Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ... If you, if one becomes devotee of the Lord, all good qualities will be there. And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... If he's not a devotee... Now so many things, condemnation, is going on, big, big leaders. Today's paper I have seen. "This man, that man, is rejected even." Why? Harāv abhaktasya kuto. What is the benefit of becoming a big leader if he's not a devotee? (Hindi) You are very intelligent, young, and therefore I am trying to give you some idea, and if you can give some shape to these ideas... It is already there. It is no secret. Simply we must be serious, that this institution must be there for educating the whole human society. Never mind, a very small number. It doesn't matter. But ideal must be there.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It will not...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the scientific community, they'll make fun of this.

Prabhupāda: Then don't show it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about in the universities, the students?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: University students?

Prabhupāda: They are... University students, they may be educated. They'll also make a... Don't make it a laughing stock.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, very little is there. Just started, then finished. So I said, "If it can be done, it can be a little elaborated. Give some more authentic examples, a little more discussion and some philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it's too short. And in a short time...

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is made by layman, so it is not valuable.

Conversation with disciples of Chinmayananda and Shivananda Ashram -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So if one does not want to know, how he'll know?

Indian man (5): Whatever Swamiji says, that...

Prabhupāda: Yeah. And Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Why don't you do that? Who has got the...?

Indian man (5): We want to be student. Sarva-dharmān is word.

Prabhupāda: That... That means you become student; hear me and you'll learn it. It is not the one minute's business.

Indian man (5): Somehow you can give some that, advice from you. But whatever...

Prabhupāda: Advice... Well, you come here. Stay here. We shall teach you. Not that you have come here for five minutes—I have to teach you sarva-dharmān...

Indian man (5): No, you don't have time.

Prabhupāda: No, I have got time. So that's all right. You have to... You have to learn it.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And you want cloth. That is primary necessities. So if you become independent about these things, your eighty percent economic problem is solved. So this is a wrong type of civilization only. That Gandhi's program was very nice. We want to revive.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, we... In fact, we have sent our students at Sabarmati Ashram itself, and the person... He is still with us. He's top of the list in the Sabarmati Ashrama, who was doing it.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we can take up this enterprise immediately. Whether we can induce the villagers, neighboring inhabitants, to cooperate? That is wanted. Otherwise what we shall do with this building?

Mr. Dwivedi: Correct.

Prabhupāda: So our Gandhi's program failed because he could not attract the villagers to these activities. Everyone wants some attraction. That we were discussing, rasa, catur-vidhā-rasa, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So we have to educate them to be attracted by the mokṣa-rasa. Then they'll stay. Unless there is rasa... Just like if you put a little sugar, small black ants will come immediately. The rasa is there. Raso vai saḥ. If... If you cannot attract people to some rasa, they'll not stay. Just like these Americans, foreigners, they have tasted little rasa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore they are sticking. That we have to create. That is bhakti-rasa. So our first beginning is that the villagers may come, we have our temple, and they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and give them nice prasādam. And then, gradually, they will be attracted to this rasa. So that we want.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: It is nobody's religion, what little I know of the few religions, that to advise that "You must take a particular type of flesh and not the other type."

Prabhupāda: No, flesh you can take if you are carnivorous, but not this cow's flesh. That is particularly instructed in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say that "You be non-meat-eater." That is not possible. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Every living entity is living by eating another living entity. That is the laws of nature. But there are different types, so in the human society, if there are persons who want to eat flesh, so they can eat that nonimportant, small animal. But don't touch cow. That is Gītā's instruction. Go-rakṣya, He has particularly said. If you are so mean that you have to eat some flesh, there are hogs, dogs, and... And you can eat. But don't touch cow. Gandhi posed himself as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he did not understand a single line. That is the defect. Gandhi took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as a childish play. Dangerous... Therefore country is ruined. You must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there is authority. You cannot change it. If you change it, where is the authority? Can you change the simple law, "Keep to the right; keep to the left"? No. It is authority. If the direction is "Keep to the right," you must keep to the right. You cannot say that "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then there is no authority. So Gandhi, Tilak, and Aurobindo and so on, so on, they took Bhagavad-gītā as a childish play. Whatever they want, they interpret that. And Vivekananda supported, yato mata tato patha: "You can have your own opinion." These are all nonsense. Therefore country is ruined. You must take as it is. Then it will be... You cannot change the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya... (BG 18.44)..

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It has to be done in high flame.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The ones they served you were correct, but still they were heavy. But the ones I got were probably the first attempt or something. So they had sunk to the bottom.

Prabhupāda: They never become expert. He'll remain student for life. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

Prabhupāda: They are not old, but they have no intelligence. The hippie life spoiled them. Varṇa-saṅkara. Hippies means varṇa-saṅkara. No father, no mother, some are only children, doing irresponsible everything, making the whole situation hellish. How Bhāgavata predicted long hair? That is very astonishing. This confirms the Bhāgavata authority.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a very minute detail, prediction.

Prabhupāda: There are so many minute details, but this particularly...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why does it...?

Prabhupāda: ...strikes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why does it strike you particularly?

Prabhupāda: It is very insignificant thing, personal. And it is said, personal, if you keep long hair, it will look... But it has been made here, it is said that "People will think like that, that he has become more beautiful." The psychology. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dharaṇam. They rejected all other things. Simply they'll think that "If I keep long hair, I'll be very beautiful." This psychological study is there. And five thousand years before, prediction. How much authoritative the book is, just imagine. Is it not fact? Vyāsadeva's authority, try to... How perfectly authorized he is.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sevā-bhagavān accept, can accept.

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya

yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya

(CC Adi 5.142)

So master can accept service. So whenever there is devotional service, it is called bhāgavata-sevā. And jīvera dayā. (Hindi) If you have got something, then you can be merciful to others. If you have no knowledge, what you can do? The basic principle... (Hindi) In India, Bhāratavarṣa, exalted knowledge, and if it is presented properly, people will accept. They are accepting now, one man's effort. If many men are prepared to do this service, the whole world will be followers of Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) (break) ... come to give here India's knowledge. In big meeting I told him that "I have not come here to beg. I have come here to give." Everyone goes from... Even the Prime Minister goes-beg. All beggars. And it is known as "beggars' nation." But you can be the giver nation. You have got so much potency. But we are not training people in that way. They are learning dog dancing. That's all. If we simply understand this one word, beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā... There are so many students of Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands Bhagavad-gītā. The beginning is,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

Is not there in the beginning?

Mr. Dwivedi: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: So if there is dehāntara-prāpti, then where is your so-called nationalism, socialism? They do not understand. Suppose if you are Indian today and dehāntara-prāpti, you become something else, then where is your nationalism? Boliye. For twenty years or, say, fifty years nationalism... When you become young man, thirty-forty years, then you begin. Suppose you live for hundred years. So fifty years' nationalism. Then if by chance you become a dog?

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They're simply barking, but this weak dog became fainted. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they praised him for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Oh, he has talked so much." (laughter) I saw that "These two dogs are barking only. One of them fainted."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a picture in the newspaper showing the students going to school, and each one of them was shown as a dog with a hat, graduation hat on, comparing the students to dogs. There was a cartoon, very apt.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are creating so many dogs. "Can you give me any service?" "No vacancy! Get out!" And somebody becomes a... "All right, a bit of bread..." And: "Oh, oh, you are so kind." These śūdras... The number of śūdras have created this world situation so bad. (break) In your country also the farmers wants to go to the city to become educated and never comes back again. They are no more interested.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian Astronomer: Till now I saw only in the papers, newspapers and magazines and pamphlets and books. I am so fortunate to gain darśana directly at your...

Prabhupāda: It is very kind of you. So...

Indian Astronomer: As Patita-pāvana dāsa told me... I informed him, I am a student of religion and also working for religion. Single-hand, I made attempt to propagate Vedic concept and Vedic religion for the past forty years. I am not able to find out any help. But fortunately, when I informed about Your Holiness and saw in newspapers also, I have found you are the incarnation of Indian gods, (Prabhupāda chuckles) from my point of view, because the mission which is not fulfilled by other ācāryas, even Swami Vivekananda, so many. I know... I studied all variety of prophets. But it is only fulfilled by Your Holiness.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is your idea of the seven planets, sun...?

Indian Astronomer: You see, planets, in our system planets comes in the history very late.

Prabhupāda: Very?

Indian Astronomer: Late, very. Because you won't find any reference to grahas in the Vedas. As a student of Vedas, I can guarantee that there is no reference to the grahas in the Vedas. Because nava-grahas are only important mantras, not they are (indistinct). So when because these things comes later on, Kalpa-sūtra, for those adopted the grahas and prepared the mantras from the Vedas for the grahas. So historically we must have come down. Now we'll find out in what date they are presented. Till now I was told all these things after only... I am also preaching Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Now, where is the situation of the grahas in this planetary system? Whether sun is first or moon is first?

Indian Astronomer: Sun is first. Definitely sun is first because the moon is the reflection of sunshine. (quotes Sanskrit verse) Vedas say (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: Candrama has... Candrama has got his own light. It is not reflection.

Indian Astronomer: Not reflection. It has its own importance. But about the lights...

Prabhupāda: As sūrya is blazing, similarly, candrama is also blazing, but it is surrounded by cool cloud. Therefore it is so soothing. But it is above the sun planet, so far it is stated there.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that "I am student." They do not understand even a line of... This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1): Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): Gandhiji believed in trusteeship theory of Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: Trusteeship... Trustee... Who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in any way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. (Hindi) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. (Hindi) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside:) Hm, don't do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: It is already there. It is already there. You kindly take it.

Indian man (3): How to intimate in our daily life...?

Prabhupāda: You understand. The difficulty is you do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. Still, you say that you are student of Bhagavad-gītā. This is difficulty.

Indian man (3): I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that how I can kill such enemies who are my family members? This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. (Hindi)

Indian man (3): There are two.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So we are talking of who requires a guru. Guru is not a fashion. (loud yelling outside) Hm? What is that?

Indian man (2): Shouting by some people.

Indian man (1): I think all the educational institutions are closed for summer vacation. Therefore many students and these people may have come, and they this cause, or something like that. I'm not sure, but that is what I guess.

Prabhupāda: They have also manufactured. (laughter) This is going on. So Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Guru is required to understand tad-vijñānam, transcendental science, not for any material understanding. Material understanding, there are so many chemists, (sic:) physists and many other department of... When we speak of guru, it means beyond this material world. For that purpose we require guru. So... Just like now it is being very much advertised that "You execute meditation. Your mind will be strong. Your health will be strong." That means from material point. But keeping your health strong, the medical science is there and so many other thing. But people are taking advantage of this yoga system. The śāstra says that dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). He is yogi who is meditating and mind is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is material. Material things does not require... Maybe a gymnastic, muṣṭika.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is our thesis.

Jayapatākā: And educated young people, they're very... They're very susceptible to being devotees. When we traveled in one city, two people joined with us and traveled with us and said they'll be shaved and everything. Very easily they give up. Even when I returned in Māyāpur about five or six new young men had joined. In the twenty days I was gone Bhavānanda Mahārāja had enlisted about five or six men and about fifteen gurukula students and two families. And they were all very enthusiastic. They want to go and preach also. Things are improving.

Prabhupāda: So building work is finished?

Jayapatākā: They're just finishing the top waterproofing, jalja(?). They're building that now. That'll be finished in fifteen days.

Prabhupāda: Others things are going on.

Jayapatākā: Other things are going on.

Bhavānanda: Painting. Painting, finishing painting work is going on, first floor.

Jayapatākā: Painting is going on. Now we just have to furnish the rooms. Then guests can stay. The rooms are still unfurnished. This weekend it was packed, filled with guests, our big guesthouse. One Tara minibus came and filled, garden building. People only come to Māyāpur to see our temple. They don't go to see any other temple.

Prabhupāda: What they'll see there? (laughter) How Saman(?) Mahārāja is managing?

Jayapatākā: He somehow is trying to maintain. I don't see any improvement.

Prabhupāda: No, he cannot make any improvement, but if he can maintain, that is our question.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anyone.

Jayapatākā: The gurukula put on a drama just the day before we left. What was the play?

Bhavānanda: Valmiki Dasu Ratnagara(?).

Jayapatākā: Dasa Ratna, Dasa Ratnakara, and Nārada Muni, how he became Vālmīki, that... Two or three gurukula students and two or three teachers, in Bengali.

Bhavānanda: English, Western devotees speaking Bengali. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Very successful.

Jayapatākā: That who will take his pāpāṁśa? Neither his wife nor his son nor his old father, no one would take share of his sin.

Bhavānanda: Only his money.

Jayapatākā: So he took shelter of Nārada Muni and became Vālmīki Muni.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good news, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A translation has come from the...

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good.

Conversations -- May 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice. Good idea.

Devotee (2): What time do you recommend they come?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we can invite some scholars. I saw two students from Delhi today. They are students. So I will start a program of the Institute here if they are interested.

Prabhupāda: Keep always busy. Make execution. Something must go on. We have got our guesthouse to provide respectable gentleman with quarter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it will also be good for the gurukula, to tie together, 'cause we have this Institute and gurukula together. That way, it will be more attractive for program.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So did you talk with Bhakti-prema Swami?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. I'm going to talk with him too.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Keep me forward. Yes. Keep always busy. That I wish to see.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nowadays all students, scholars, going outside means going to the States. That is the...

Prabhupāda: They give facility. No, I have got good respect for America.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I'm sure that the scientists, some of the leading scientists, will accept.

Prabhupāda: I therefore say America is my fatherland. India is my motherland.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in the normal dealing also...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...the Americans are very friendly, very nice actually, in general. When I studied in California, I was a stranger, but everybody looked like a friend, very different from England. England is very conservative. They don't say hello, and different.

Prabhupāda: England, nonsense number one. Worst false prestige, England. In that respect, other countries are better. They had a British Empire. They are still puffed up. And they will stay there to continue British Empire. Now they are earning money for eating, showing British Parliament House. Now there is no business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They make money by tour of the Parliament House.

Prabhupāda: "Shopkeepers' nation." The Parliament has become a shop. Artificially they're maintaining an atmosphere of aristocracy. There is not... I talked with some of their Lords. Artificial. The have lost all prestige. Still, "I belong to the Lords' House." The priestly order, the Lord family, I talked with them. Simply artificial.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Was he in Scottish Churches College?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I never know his background.

Prabhupāda: I think in our student there was some Kundu. The same?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He looks like in his sixties.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then... May or may not. It doesn't matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We were discussing about life, and he was talking about the idea that Kṛṣṇa is within the atom.

Prabhupāda: Atom is matter. And within atom there is God. That is God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the point was...

Prabhupāda: They have not fully analyzed within the atom.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are doing many kinds of research on life. They're specializing on life sciences. But they have also been taken away by the Western ideas, I gather. So first of all, when I went... Actually there is a professor called Professor Bakat(?) in science college. He was my former teacher. So he took me along. So it makes things very easy because he knew all of them, and he had great appreciation for us, like a father. He's a professor, full-time professor, and he knew all these friends, big, big scientists there. First of all, Professor Bakat introduced me, "He's from the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. He's former student, but now fully engaged in scientific Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So they thought it is some sort of religion. Then... "No, no, he's not speaking about religion. He's speaking about the science of life and about the fundamental principles of life and matter and its origin." Then they changed their little outlook.

Prabhupāda: Then they changed?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's bogus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hrishikesh, when he saw how strongly you were preaching, especially to his, you know, his student teachers, he sent a message that "As you are not feeling well, you should take complete rest." He was a little worried. Prabhupāda was preaching so strongly in Hrishikesh, and he was there also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Maharishi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Hm. He wanted to invite me. I refused, "I cannot..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he sent a message that "You should take complete rest and not do any preaching."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Recently I saw a book in Boston. It was from England, that book. The title was called The Origin of Johnny. Johnny's the name of a little boy.

Prabhupāda: Johnny Walker. (laughter)

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Japan and... Make... (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have many friends in Japan because when I studied in California, there were many students from Japan, because California is...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Ask best... (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to be serious because this is a threat to the existing scientific theory. So they cannot just remain silent. They have to do something, 'cause otherwise we are going to propagate it, it's all wrong. So they have to do something. They cannot just remain silent because... We are not just speaking. There will be books, proving that these are all nonsense.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) You have got increased snuff boxes?

Upendra: Er, one little one and that big one there. I'll check to see if there's any more.

Prabhupāda: Life is a different material.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So do they accept?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, and some Indians are on our side, specially this Indian Student's Association, and also there is an association called Indian Association for Greater Boston. The president and the secretary came to me, and they are supporting us.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they're organizing these lectures, so we have a show on July 10th.

Prabhupāda: Make a great agitation. It will be done, if you work. (pause) A great challenge of the Bhaktivedanta Institute, for the whole world. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Bhakti-caru: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ. These rascals, they do not know. That is going on.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He cannot have. He is a sentimentalist. He has no clear idea. Neither it is possible for him.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We'd like to know this very clearly and see things properly.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays scientific education, the students in the school...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once it is convinced, then it is convinced forever, on a scientific level.

Prabhupāda: Then there will be question, "If the life is eternal, then whatever we have wrongly taken as life, temporary, that is only waste of thought(?)."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. That is a corollary. The whole educational system has to be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything they thought, this chemistry and physics, it's going to be all wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they have no alternative.

Prabhupāda: And that is spiritual knowledge.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Our program is open. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ. We are training like this, covered in the Bhāgavata. Never mind government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you get accepted by the government, you may have to change you curriculum so much.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean, just this is a Vaiṣṇava institute, so when our students apply abroad for an entry visa, they'll get it right away, and they can get a student visa for four, five years. I don't think the gurukula kids come from abroad and then train them six, you know...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the parents are prepared to pick up the expense. That's all. Government curriculum is useless. They'll enforce kids to take eggs, three eggs...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's right.

Prabhupāda: ...in daytime, and four pounds flesh. Otherwise there will be vitamin, less vitamin. Or "Give them vitamins pills, this..." These... "Don't go to Yamunā. It is polluted."

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why you made this gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Dallas gurukula was lost only for this purpose. They could not manage. Jagadīśa said the government was imposing this, that, this, that. Here you can do without...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There is no restriction, yes.

Prabhupāda: You bring students from all over the world. But according to our own selection. And if you make an ideal institution here, then the local men also will... The management is difficult. It is not so easy, that simply "I open my office here. I keep my bank here. I get my work." That is not management. Management is little difficult. Everyone is thinking, "Where to keep my leg? Where to keep my leg?" Nobody's thinking how to manage. The same thing, (Bengali). "Warning: Don't keep your head on the northern side." He says, "Oh, where is my head?" So I can give you suggestion. Now you... So Akṣayānanda has gone...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The motorcycle has gone to bring the manager.

Prabhupāda: He is coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will the manager come now? What is your guarantee that he'll come now? You should call him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have already called him. (background talking, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa)

Prabhupāda: This is another management: without knowing whether he's coming, motorcycle.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is management.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you gave that example: If you want to kill a mosquito, use a gun. What does that example show...

Prabhupāda: Means four student and three hundred managers. That is mosquito and gun. (laughter) Student, you have got four. And managers? Three hundred. One manager requires three rooms, another four rooms. This is waste. One manager, first see at least fifty students. Then you can become manager.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone who wants to call themself a manager, they have to maintain fifty...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So what kind of manager? But I am sure you can get students from outside, if not Indian students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Indians will come when they see there's sufficient going on. Just like now they are doing...

Prabhupāda: No, they have lost interest. (indistinct) good character, that's all. They have lost all interest. They want this Hiraṇyakaśipu. They'll not want Prahlāda. He wanted son like him. That means fight between the father and the son. Son wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and he wants to be political rākṣasa, and he becomes... Anyhow, we have got place. We have got. Try for. If you don't... Manage. And you are required to. Manage.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They can walk. This flower garden... Why not? Footpaths.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There can be a footpath.

Prabhupāda: But in the middle there must be very nice flower garden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause sometime visitors, sometimes it may be noisy and disturbing to the students if visitors start to walk within the...

Prabhupāda: No, you can take them to walk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should not be for that. For the special guests only.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) (break) So now our next business is to bring students, brahmacārī. So easy process is to approach wealthy(?) gentleman. In their family there are many children, one, two, three, like that. So approach them and plead them that "Children from your family are expected to be very respectable boys, character and devotee, educated. From your family, people expect like that. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction, he says, ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. 'What is the use of begetting children like cats and dogs?' The children must be vidvān, that is, learned, and bhaktimān, devotee. This is the ideal. And what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. Either he should be bhaktimān or vidvān. This vidvān and bhaktimān, that is ideal. So we are going to teach your son to become vidvān and bhaktimān. So don't you like to bring your son?" You have to tell them like that. And present it rightly. The Prime Minister and her son or his son, he is debauch number one. Do you think the society can be happy? The father and mother is Prime Minister, and the son is a debauch number one. What is this? That is going on. So we are... "For the good of the society you can send your son to become vidvān, bhaktimān. Then, after some time, you can engage your son in any way. That is the... If they are found it, vidvān and bhaktimān, then everything will be all right. And if gone rascals, then what good for the society? Just think. Am I right or wrong?" You have to convince like that. What do you think about this?

Indian man (1): (indistinct)

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Devotee (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: At least one dozen rooms. (background talking) Twenty-six. So if fifteen rooms are taken by the Americans... How many students will be accommodated in one room?

Devotees (2): Four to five.

Prabhupāda: So fifteen to five, 250. At least 150 students you can accommodate them, nice. So arrange for that. And throughout India and the whole world you cannot bring 250? So is it very difficult to bring 250 students? So what kind of managers you are? So these things should be considered. (bad tape) (break) So if you have got any other questions, you can ask me. But first business is to bring students. We are open to the whole world, India also. Our society has got so many children. They are doing there, and some of them may come here. In this way it must be filled up with students. That is first business. Then manager arrange. "This manager will be in this room; that manager..." That is secondary. (laughs) First of all you must have students to manager over.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone. Simply one has to know. And where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. So know yourself, let your sons know, and you become free. Everything is there. So that ideal we want to give to the world. So throughout the whole world we cannot find out five hundred students? So what kind of manager? Hm? This is ideal civilization, that people are suffering mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and stop this repetition of birth and death. That is ideal. Kṛṣṇa says plainly that "If you do not take advantage of My instruction, then mām aprāpya: you'll not get Me." "So what is the loss? I don't get You?" Now, nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. "Then you'll be again entangled in this birth and death."

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Knowingly they are drinking poison, and we are trying to save them. Very difficult task. Jāniyā śuni... This Narottama dāsa's song, a very practical and very easily applica... Jāniyā śuniyā... Nobody drinks poison knowingly, but these people, we are all drinking poison knowingly. They're refusing to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So little difficult but very responsible task. So at least bring five hundred students. Then it will be very nice, gradually. Respectable gentleman, big, big man, at least these big, big merchants, their student doesn't... Just like Birla family, other big, big... If they require some technologists, they can hire. There are so many tech... Technologist means śūdra. And actually they are doing that. They do not train their own sons to become technologist. They pay for that, the śūdras, as servants are... The Englishmen used to say these men, craft and technolo..., "educated laborer." They are laborer and little educated. There are uneducated laborer, just like carpenter. He doesn't require any education. If he knows how to rub on... What is called, that? That instrument? He doesn't require to become M.A., Ph.D. All these laborers are working so nicely.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it. This Sanjay Gandhi ruined the whole Congress organization, and he was being worshiped. Just see practically. It is due to him that the old, oldest political party, Congress, is ruined. And he was being worshiped. This is society's position. And Morarji Desai, he's now prime minister, he was put into jail. This is going on. This is the example to learn. For nineteen months he was put into jail. How much it is troublesome. If I am asked that "For so many months you cannot go out of this room," I'll become mad.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is required. But it will be a failure unless they are taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Gandhi's failure was there. He did not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because the material civilization means pravṛtti-mārga, and spiritual civilization nivṛtti-mārga. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalām. So pravṛtti... Suppose he is in the village. He has to work with plow. And in the city, Goodyear Tire Company offering him twenty rupees per day. So he'll see that "What is the use of working with this plow? Let me go to Goodyear Tire." Then here the business will be finished. That is the position of India. So much land is lying vacant because there is no worker, and all the rascals have gone to New Delhi or big cities. And overpopulation? "Give them sterilization." Here there is no men to work and they're sterilization... How the leaders... And who is leader? Another debauch number one, Gandhi, Mrs.... And she has produced a Sanjay Gandhi. Very precarious si... So there will be no scarcity of simple living and eating. We shall give nice food, milk, and place. So bring student and teach them. Then gradually increase. They will preach throughout the whole world. The defect of the society, modern—the rascals are worshiped. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has given all in his moral instructions. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante: "Where rascals are not worshiped..." But at the present moment rascals are worshiped. And he says. He was experienced politician. He said, mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam. "In the society where rascals are not worshiped and food grains are properly stocked..." Mūrkhā yatra na pūjyante dhānyaṁ yatra susañcitam... Another... Dampatyo kalaho nāsti: "And where there is no quarrel between husband and wife," tatra śrīḥ svayam āgatāḥ, "all fortune will come there automatically." Svayam āgatāḥ. You haven't got to pray, "Mother Lakṣmī, please come to my house." She'll come. Three things wanted. You should not give unnecessarily honor to rascals, and you should keep your food grains very nicely, and don't quarrel, husband and wife. Then you become fortunate. Just see. Check how these instructions are there.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "And that is mine." Because you have got enough space, "I shall keep one leg in another place, one leg in another place," and then whole thing will be planning. Don't do this. Don't misuse even one thing.

Akṣayānanda: Just take what is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Properly utilize. (Hindi) Everything should be properly utilized. That is management, to not mix even.

Guṇārṇava: You were saying you wanted five hundred students, so we should keep as much space as possible for the students...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guṇārṇava: ...on these floors. If we have administrative offices mixing...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to invite them. Otherwise what is the use, for four students, such a building? And simply managers? That is not good. There must be students, not that four students and three dozen managers.

Guṇārṇava: No.

Prabhupāda: It has no... That is waste. Then the whole thing is waste. There must be five hundred students and ten managers. That's all. Then it is good. Is that all right? Mr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It has no... That is waste. Then the whole thing is waste. There must be five hundred students and ten managers. That's all. Then it is good. Is that all right? Mr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Teachers should be so expert that they can deal with many students.

Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swamiji, (Hindi) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater. "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. (Hindi) Loafer class, śūdra, they want. (Hindi) Still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had. When, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swamiji, (Hindi)"

Dr. Sharma: Indians also?

Prabhupāda: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Indians? Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Akṣayānanda: Before he went to America.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, being disappointed here, I went to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means we have to canvass vigorously to get students.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: We have to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Keep place ready, but you have to bring students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not going to come of their own. We have to go out and get them.

Prabhupāda: They will come later on, when they will see: "Yes..."

Yaśodānandana: First we have to get the ISKCON students first.

Prabhupāda: ISKCON or FISKCON, bring students. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Prabhupāda, these students can come, any number you like.

Prabhupāda: So that I want. I want the number. It doesn't matter ISKCON or FISKCON.

Dr. Sharma: No, I mean to say, free, no charge.

Prabhupāda: That means they'll not come from such a good family.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No.

Guṇārṇava: It's bigger than the downtown office of Punjab National Bank.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the banks.

Guṇārṇava: It's big.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him come. I shall talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. Do you want us... Is there anything else to see...?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all.

Prabhupāda: And very nice.

Guṇārṇava: Jaya. Glories to Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Now, the first thing is, bring student. Then it will be successful, very good.

Guṇārṇava: Jaya Prabhupāda. (kīrtana) (end)

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And that is my mission.

Surendra Kumar: Yes, sir. That's what I'm saying, for the first time. Otherwise nobody would have appreciated in the last government. Who was the person to talk...

Prabhupāda: In the Berkeley University I was speaking. One Indian student got up, and he said, "Swamiji, what this Hare Kṛṣṇa will do? Now we require technology," like that. And "Yes, you have come here to beg technology. You remain beggar. I have come to give something."

Surendra Kumar: Correct, sir.

Prabhupāda: "I am not a beggar. I have come here to give something." I replied.

Surendra Kumar: Your Divine Grace was right. He wants the best of people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is....

Surendra Kumar: Whom you want to call...

Prabhupāda: So you make everything complete today. You busy man...

Surendra Kumar: No, it is not necessary to make today. Let him have your full instructions, who are the people...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we'll prepare a draft and read it to you.

Prabhupāda: Take every step, this inquiry. He's experienced.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Our books are sold not for philosophical speculation but practical solution of the problems. The philosophical classes are now being closed everywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's a fact.

Prabhupāda: The professors are starving. No students are interested in philosophy. Rather, they take admission in the technological class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or even in meditation in classes. They want some practical realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I go on reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Seeing that the... Lord Caitanya did not let them escape so easily, seeing that the books would be very interesting, he requested both standing orders and several small books. Before leaving the city, I went to two international book shops. One book shop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "One bookshop bought several books, and the other shop, an enterprise, wanted to translate two of your books into Yugoslavian language."

Prabhupāda: What is that book?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Gugalana(?), one of the few cities which had a theological seminary, was overpowered..." He doesn't say which one.

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement immediately. We shall allow them to translate and publish.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see the fun. He rushed there and began... And...? It is a humorous.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "So I made arrangements with the book store to fulfill his desires. The next, University of Pristina. After riding all night in the train..." This boy is going through a lot of hardship all along. He said sometimes for two or three days he did not sleep. "After riding all night in the train I arrived on the campus at four a.m. in the morning. Before anyone could interfere with me, I studied the school very closely. In two hours' time I knew where all of my targets were. So when the professors and students arrived at 6:30 in the morning..."

Prabhupāda: 6:30 in the morning?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I was ready for them. My first meeting was the most important one."

Prabhupāda: It means that they do... These communist countries, they work so hard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They rise up, 4:30, prepare for going to work. Then work begins at 6:30. Is it not more load than the ass? Still they have to do that, by force.

Room Conversation with Alice Coltrane -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10). One who is twenty-four hours engaged, He talks with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's quite serious. She eats very minimally, sleeps very little. This girl told me... She lives with her. She only sleeps about three hours a day, and she eats very little.

Prabhupāda: Then she'll be qualified if she reads Bhagavad-gītā nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And she's only reading... You know, she... All of her students, they only read your Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a question of time only. She says that... She's been to India three times, and she said that she's never found any place like Vṛndāvana. And this is to her... Now she feels this is her home, that she only wants...

Prabhupāda: She may stop here whenever she likes.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man's brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don't think that... Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in In... They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?

Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Do you think they... Do they understand these lines? Now, if your...

Mr. Myer: No, that will be change of party. One man is in Congress. One is in (indistinct). Then he goes to Congress. Wherever he can get an office, they are changing party. They are not all thinking of the spirit.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they have done so in the matter of moon planet. They've never gone there by laboratory arrangement. Arizona?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arizona.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is their business. They might have presented such devices in a book, a different color. Just like medical science. The preparation is nothing, but they'll employ big, big medical students to write in such a way that it will be presented as very important. They are doing this. We have done in Dr. Bose's laboratory. They employ. (speaks garbled words to sound like big words) Go on speaking. (laughter) It sounds very nice. What is the meaning of? (more garbled phrases) So I have got my own common sense. I understand. (indistinct) in the Vedic literatures. (indistinct comments by devotees)

Prabhupāda: That I already told. Prejudiced.

Yaśodā-nandana: I'm not prejudiced. I'm just trying to understand. I'm trying to understand what is the facts according to Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: How you can understand which is beyond your understanding?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is saying he wants to understand according to the Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Organized very nice. Hm. "Gargamoney." (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kindly fill in the form below to receive your first volumes." Then it says, "Name and age, date of purchase, address, city, state, country, type of business, phone, number of sets to be purchased." Number of sets to be purchased. It's very hopeful. "Whether encyclopedia is for personal use or other, please explain." 'Cause they're going to keep a file to see what people use it for. "Number of books to be received each year. Amount given as advance." He says, "At least fifty percent of the total cost can be given for the complete set as advance, and balance to be made in yearly installments. Signature of purchaser. Please note: The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust shall fulfill its obligation to supply all books to the purchaser as agreed upon and shall ship all books postage prepaid to any part of the world. Dated and signature of the salesman. Checks to be made out in the name of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, Bombay. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Library Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge, Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Recommendations and appreciations by leading scholars of India on the BBT Library Encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge." He seems to have got a lot... I don't know how he did this. It says... These are different recommendations. It's from the Minister of Education, Government of Maharastra. Shrimati Patiba Patel. " 'I therefore wholeheartedly recommend this encyclopedia of our culture and all BBT publications to all educational institutions, schools, libraries and colleges concerned with the moral and cultural development of their students within the boundary of Maharastra and throughout the world.' " See, each one he has the word encyclopedia bold and underlined. "Ph.D. from Harvard University." All different big personalities. "The Mayor of Bombay. Padma Bhushan, Vice-Chancellor of Baroda University. Professor of Gujarati language, Gold Medal winner and author of 36 Gujarati books." Another man. "Award-winning Gold-medalist in Gujarati literature." "Award-winning author in Sindhi literature." All these people are giving their recommendations. "Award-winning author in Sindhi literature." "Head of the Department of Sanskrit at Bombay University." "Head of the Department of Sindhi in RC College, Bombay." Then he has a review by P. M. Joshi. "Dr. P. M. Joshi, past director of Archives and Historical Monuments, Maharastra government; past professor in charge of History, Bombay and Poona University." So many different titles. Then he has one from Prabhudas P. Patwaria, a governor of Tamil Nadu. And another one from the Deputy Director, Research of the Lok Sabha. Would you like to see some more things, Śrīla Prabhupāda? The next one looks... This next one is also from Gargamuni. It includes a letter, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "My dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept my humble obeisances at your divine lotus feet. We fervently pray that Your Divine Grace continue to remain in this world because we need your personal guidance. Even when Lord Kṛṣṇa disappeared, Arjuna lost all strength temporarily."

Prabhupāda: I shall remain your personal guidance, physically present or not physically, as I am getting personal guidance from my Guru Mahārāja.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Important Muslim reviews." He's labeled their... This is from N. H. Hashmi, Head Professor and Head of the Department of Urdu at Lucknow University. " 'Though I have little knowledge of Sanskrit, but as a student of literature I have been impressed by the meticulous care and clarity with which each mantra of the...' " (break) " '...my mother tongue Urdu. It could not only universalize the teachings of the Vedāntas but also it could very much help in bringing about the much needed integration of the multilingual humanity.' "

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. We are trying for that.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Write Gargamuni. He'll send more. This is an important Encyclopedia of Vedic Knowledge reviews. Actually he got all of these reviews recently. That's amazing. It's amazing how many reviews they got. These are all from the months of May and June I think. Yeah. You want to hear some of them? "Minister of Education: 'Message: The ancient roots of traditional Indian life reach farther into the distant past than any other country on earth. What thousands of years ago culminated in education included the development in the student of all good qualities. In other words the pupil was ignited with a desire to learn and develop himself rather than strive for material rewards. From out of the great ages the ancients, headed by Śrī Vyāsadeva, have left us the timeless treatise of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the basis of all education.' " This is the Minister of Education, the Government of Maharastra. She's admitting...

Prabhupāda: Vedavyāsa.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Vyāsadeva is the basis of all education. " 'Later the saint Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, in commenting upon the life of the great Mahāprabhu Śrī Caitanya, brought to the highest level of understanding these principles in his immortal Indian classic, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. It is good fortune of the world that these two spiritual works presented as the Encyclopedia of Indian Culture have been translated and commented upon in the style of a true scholar by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda, out of his obviously great desire to inject the world with his vast storehouse of learning, has translated precisely the rich Sanskrit and Bengali ślokas. He has given the transliteration, word-for-word meaning, purports, and each volume filled with full color illustrations by his disciples. I therefore wholeheartedly recommend this encyclopedia of our culture and all other Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publications to all educational institutions, schools, libraries, and colleges concerned with the moral and cultural development of their students within the boundary of Maharastra and throughout the world.' "

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one from the Mayor of Bombay, Murali S. Deora. He's the new mayor. " 'The good work of the members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness is well known to me. It is especially commendable that the founder-ācārya of the society, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, has been able to convince so many foreigners all about the simple purity of India's exalted philosophy-plain living and high thinking. Swamiji is a very highly respected Vedic scholar, and he has seen to it that his numerous disciples from all over India and the world stick to the actual disciplines required of students of our ancient philosophy. The growing cultural and educational center now under construction at Juhu...' " He refers it as the growing cultural and educational center. He's understood your purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda. " '...is an object of deep interest and pride to myself and all fellow Bombay citizens. The members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness are always well mannered and cheerful due to the blessings of their benign Swamiji. Anyone who reads Śrīla Prabhupāda's clear translations and commentaries of well-known Sanskrit and Bengali literature can understand his secret of success. I do not think such accurate scholarly and clear expositions of Vedic culture can be found in English elsewhere. His Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publishing house has made sure that the immortal words of our classics have been presented in first-class style. Among the BBT publications, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, comprising an encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge, are especially notable. I have examined volumes of these sets and recommend these sets not only for our municipal corporation libraries and municipal-funded libraries, but for all libraries of the world...' "

Prabhupāda: They are approaching municipal libraries?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. " 'But for all libraries of the world, wherever people have a sincere interest to go into the depths of Vedic philosophy.' Signed Murali S. Deora, Mayor of Bombay."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Next, from the Indian Institute of Technology in Bombay. This is from Dr. Ram Kanstanari(?) Chairman of the Department, Indian Institute of Technology, Department of Humanities and Social Sciences. " 'Sir: I am pleased to make the following comments concerning your beautiful and learned publications, Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta of Gosvāmī Kṛṣṇa Kavirāja and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, both written by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. I feel that these works are the result of Swami Prabhupāda's extraordinary commitment to the bhakti cult in the Indian tradition. Swami Prabhupāda's style and language are full of the flashes of his intuition. They clearly represent his realization that love for God and for mankind should be the foundation of all interpersonal relations. Kṛṣṇa is the symbol of this love. He is the Absolute in an incarnate form. Love for Kṛṣṇa therefore sung in all forms of devotion-laden language asserts man's empathy towards His entire creation. The Central Library of the Indian Institute of Technology, Bombay, has already secured, on my recommendation, the above-mentioned works complete. These works are read by the faculty and students here, not only for their religious message but also for the unique interpretation they embody of the traditional cult of bhakti in India. The poetic and devotionalistic tenor of these works, I am sure, would make one realize the meaning of man's dependence on God. I have no hesitation to state that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done an immortal service to the movement of devotionism and Hinduism in particular and in world religions in general, by so ably bringing out these works in beautiful English. Every library in the world that is engaged in promoting the welfare of the human self by turning it towards the supremacy of the divine spirit...' "

Prabhupāda: Everyone is recommending. All libraries.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " '...should have on its shelf these works.' " Next is a letter from Trinvak Govind Meinpark(?), Professor of Sanskrit and Head of the Department at the University of Bombay. " 'His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the renowned Vedic scholar and founder-ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has translated into English the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Encyclopedia of Vedic Culture.' " Now it's getting to be known like that. " 'The special feature of this publication is to be seen in the explanatory notes, added with a view to summing up the purport of the passages rendered. The Bhāgavatam is a classic of the Kṛṣṇa cult, and in the manner of sweetness, sincerity of devotion and purity of emotion, it surpasses all other texts of the Purāṇas, as well as other texts of the Bhāgavata religion. As such it is no wonder that it has become a veritable scripture of the devotees of this cult. Again, of all incarnations of the highest Lord, the Kṛṣṇa incarnation has a peculiar fascination for the Indian mind and has all along exercised a great influence over the Hindu religious mind—in fact, of all minds that have God consciousness. The Lord's grace, His interest and deep concern for His devotees and even for sinners, His great love for all beings without any distinction of order, caste, creed, and sex, His ever-willingness to look after all ardent devotees, His extreme sweetness, all these qualities have made Him the most easily lovable of the divine manifestations. The text of the Bhāgavata, scenes of the whole life of the Lord from His childhood to His withdrawal from the world, yet the philosophical aspects receive greater emphasis than the historical ones.' " Not simply that it's some stories, but full of philosophy. " 'Along with the Bhāgavata, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta has received as much care and attention in the translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is presenting these two sets as an encyclopedia of our culture, and our university has made a standing order of these volumes, which our students delight in reading. There is no doubt that the Swamiji has immensely obliged all lovers of our Vedic culture and devotees of Kṛṣṇa cult by this simple, clear, faithful, and illuminating rendering into English. The notes bring out beautifully the subtle implications of the Sanskrit and Bengali text. The lay reader is thus greatly helped in appreciating and understanding the brilliant simplicity of the path of bhakti.' "

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is the Head of the Department of Sanskrit at the Bombay University. " 'The printing is really excellent and the general get-up highly attractive. I have nothing but the highest praise for this splendid publication. The BBT's encyclopedia would be a valuable asset to each school and college library as well as all general libraries throughout the world.' " These reviews are as good as your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're tremendous. Here is a letter from the member of the advisory board of the Sāhitya Academy. You know what that is Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sāhitya Academy? I think it's a literary academy. " 'No earthly writer today can match the vast outpouring of pure verse which our ancient sages, particularly the great Vyāsadeva, have left to the world. Motivated by a deep desire to give moral, cultural, and educational upliftment to all people irrespective of caste, creed or nationality, they have taught us the higher values of life through the medium of historical narrations, biographies, the lives of great men, and simple instructive stories. The unlimited wealth which they have left behind in the Devanāgarī script is sheer ecstasy to read for the poet, the student and the common man. Since dialectic differences began to splinter men into smaller groups, the original language, Sanskrit, was gradually forgotten. It is special grace upon the denizens of this world today that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done such a tremendous job of meticulously translating into so many languages the sacred books of our heritage. Swamiji's most noteworthy achievement is his Encyclopedia of Vedic Education, the multivolume presentation of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta.' " One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this calling it the Encyclopedia of Vedic..., as he's doing...Everyone has always known the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but fewer people knew Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and now these two are lumped together as equally very important works.

Prabhupāda: Complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much increased...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation Varnasrama -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would the blacksmiths do the pūjā to Viśvakarmā, or brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: No, brāhmaṇa will do. Similarly, the spice merchants, they'll worship Gaṅgeśvarī. The gold merchant worships Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who would do that?

Prabhupāda: Gold merchant. The student will worship Sarasvatī. The merchant will worship Gaṇeśa, Lakṣmī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gaṇeśa, hm.

Prabhupāda: Some sort of worship is there and instruction, many narratives. Women were advised to worship the Yamarāja, Sāvitrī, Satyavān. Then there was saṁskāras, purificatory method, out of which the higher class will be sacred thread ceremony. Always something spiritual, according to the... And actually learning Vedic knowledge, that was by the brāhmaṇas. They would give advice; people will follow. Brāhmaṇo jagato guruḥ. Just like Gargamuni came to Nanda Mahārāja. He took advantage of Gargamuni and performed some purificatory ceremony of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Why these big, big institutions for wasting time and dating between girls and boys, and then they learn expert how to kill child, how to make abortion? Expert. Simply concentration on sex. Then become hippie. Frustration. Worship hog.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In New York. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paramānanda's the president of the farm, and he's the sannyāsī there. And he's also in charge of the Rādhā-Dāmodara office. While Tripurāri Mahārāja travels in the field, he heads up the office. And the office is in a city right near the farm. So he goes half the week to the farm, half the week to the office to manage. Remember I mentioned, Dhṛṣṭadyumna's brother is an architect. So they're planning the farm for building it. It's called a model community. They're going to make it New Varṣāṇā Model Community. Everything will be planned out ahead of time—where the cows will be living—from the point of Vedic conception. It won't be hodgepodge. And they feel that it will gain tremendous interest amongst the prominent persons of America who want to visit a model community. Many universities and schools will send groups of students to visit and see. That's their idea.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: They also say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa of Mahābhārata is different from Kṛṣṇa of Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Just see. How they are distorting history and everything. And in Mahābhārata... He's advertising himself as staunch student of Bhagavad-gītā, and he is distorting the meaning in so many ways. That is his business. And he's mahātmā. Mahātmā means mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya... (BG 9.13). Mahātmā is a great devotee who has no other business than to obey the orders of Kṛṣṇa. Bhajanti. Bhajana-sevā. And he's is discarding, distorting, and he's mahātmā. Just see. If you study, scrutinizing, these men have done greatest disservice to the country, to the people in general. And they have received no result. And I have worked ten years only with Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Besides that, whenever you require money, you can ask. He'll give.

Kīrtanānanda: Thank you, Prabhupāda. I prefer to give it. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Give and take. (break) You are fulfilling my dream, New Vrindaban. I dreamt all these things. Wonderful things have been done. He is the first student, from the very beginning. When I was in the storefront he was bringing carpet, bench, some gong, some lamp. In this way...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's still bringing gifts.

Prabhupāda: Sevā-vṛtti, service attitude. Jaya. (pause) Live long, serve long.

Kīrtanānanda: Thank you. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...are also so nice, and whatever little prasādam they get, they are satisfied, New Vrindaban. New Vrindaban.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Magistrate wants my presence?

Jayapatākā: No. It is not required that you talk to him. There's no... Everyone says that there's no case for that. The previous ADM said that actually the person that was doing it is this woman district magistrate. That woman is quite inimical to us. So there's very strong talk that after Durgā Pūjā she'll be transferred. If she's transferred, then our situation would become much better, I hope, by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. She's just trying to harass us, but actually she has no legal scope. Indian Overseas Bank came out, the additional general manager, to Māyāpur, and he's very eager to open up the branch at Māyāpur also, because they have already in Bombay. I think... They have here also? I don't know. But he was eager to open a branch there. They have made us an application. The Central Bank sent a letter, withdrew their application for opening the bank. Right now the Gurukula, they have just finished their examinations. Their examinations were writing an English sentence in Sanskrit and writing Sanskrit in English and similar type tests. They, most of the students got seventy percent on the examination. Then the bigger children went out on saṅkīrtana with the two traveling parties, one to Darjeeling. In Darjeeling they sold seven thousand books in less than ten days. They had very good reception in Darjeeling. And one party is still in Bihar. They did four thousand books.

Prabhupāda: Bengal book.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Baribhada? That place is called Baribhada?

Jayapatākā: Now it's called Bhadrak. They're... Just a few hundred yards from the place of the mandira is the place where Lord Caitanya sat where He was staying for five days when He was there. Then about two miles away on another occasion He stayed at a Rādhā-Madana-mohana or some mandira. Lord Caitanya's been going there on occasion. It's in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. It mentions the place. And the people who have given us the temple, they are the descendants of the devotee with whom Lord Caitanya stayed with. They're the same family. And so they're very enthusiastic and they want to give all help. Although it's a small place, they've already made a couple of members, life patron members, and they're trying to collect donation. There's a college there, and some of the professors of the college come regularly to the temple, and they are chanting japa and they're bringing their students and other colleagues.

Prabhupāda: Good field.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fifty, fifty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So it will be about a hundred. These are all mostly professors, very few students. There's about four or five. All are professors. Some of them wanted to help me start a center in Delhi of our Bhaktivedanta Institute. They told me they can help me in setting up one center in Delhi. There's one Professor Malsanda, he's the head of the physiology department.

Prabhupāda: Why not take the chance?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Also, while I was typing in the Connaught Place, some business man came and he saw the letterhead saying "Bhaktivedanta Institute." Then he asked me later on, "What is this institute?" Then I told him Prabhupāda's projects and plans. And he was very sincere and serious. He was a big businessman. And he wanted to help me in setting up one center in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: So take this opportunity. And we will supply the place, suitable place? It will be very prestigious in Delhi.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I got a letter from the Home Minister's secretary, saying that they're considering it seriously, and he just asked me for some more information, And actually the answers to all the questions that they have asked are positive. In other words, they have asked questions like "For these foreign students, will ISKCON pay for their boarding and lodging? How many years' course is it?" So it appears... I'm going to see them again next week. We may get our permanent residency visas. This is the first positive sign.

Prabhupāda: They have made some inquiry.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I met the Home Minister two months ago, and I gave him an application. So I've just received a reply.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it for permanent residency? Not for two or three years. Permanent.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Even if they give for five years, that'd be good. This would be very nice, because you always wanted this.

Prabhupāda: So do it carefully.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I have got many experiences in my family life. One servant, Kashiram.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kashiram.

Prabhupāda: Yes his name was Kashiram. So he was howling, howling. So we took him to the hospital, and so many student doctors surrounded. They diagnosed something, strangulation or something like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Strangulation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then they were prepared to surgical operation. Then another experienced doctor came. He said, "Let us wait today." So he was kept in the hospital, and we came back. That Kashiram... Another friend, servant of the neighborhood, and so he said, "Bābājī, he has drunk this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He got a little drunk.

Prabhupāda: So I said, "Don't delay. So many doctors..." And next morning he came back and said, "The doctor said, 'You are all right, you can go.' "

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics cannot account for these phenomena, and life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy. Mr. Cohen said that the proof of Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed, one into another, through many small changes or mutations. 'Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: Hm. A good article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I think they gave a very full coverage.

Prabhupāda: And very scientifically presented. And Bhaktivedanta Institute is advertised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Free of charge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is a good article.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayādvaita: "The Russian scientist Dr. A. I. Oparin has been propagating this view since 1957, but his challengers demand 'really solid examples of life arising from matter.' At a three-day international conference on life comes from life at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the keynote. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Sing, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from the USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of a materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme of a discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermo-dynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of biochemistry at the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supported the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the presence of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science. All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life and they also corroborate the systematic description of the nature of life given in Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Prabhupāda: How do you like article?

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Pañca-draviḍa: Full of desire trees and jewels.

Prabhupāda: You can provide five hundred students very easily.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Such a nice building. Who would not like to go to school here in Vṛndāvana? Nice, pure atmosphere. (break) (Bengali)

Śatadhanya: ...Vrindavan, he's going to Delhi. From Delhi he'll go to Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, Vrindavan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Vrindavan De: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Where is the money? (Bengali) We cannot put fire in the flesh.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Don't bother to come here, then.

Brahmānanda: But they treated you with much respect, though. They said that they had wanted Your Divine Grace to come because you are also a member of their steering committee. (indistinct) They also had a proposal to produce a series of different books, small books, pamphlets, forty, fifty pages, comprising selections from the Bhagavad-gītā. And these would be for specific types of persons. The books would be Bhagavad-gītā for students, Bhagavad-gītā for businessmen, Bhagavad-gītā for scientists, like that. So they want us to produce the book for the scientists, taking various quotes from Bhagavad-gītā with a short explanation of the verse. So I said one problem is that all the different groups who are assembled here will all have different interpretations of the verses. What about this? And they said, "No, no, we shouldn't interpret." I said, "Well, one reason that the young people are not taking up this Bhagavad-gītā is because they see that everyone is giving a different interpretation. Nobody is presenting it as it is, so they're confused." I was in Kashmir, I was speaking with some young boys. They were telling me they're confused by religion. They don't respect the paṇḍitas in the temples—they're all simply after money. They have no respect for religion, Hindu religion. So I mentioned this to all of them. They are all Māyāvādīs. And they argued with me. I presented arguments. They would not accept it.

Prabhupāda: They want to avoid criticism.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many students.

Bhagatji: It contains many colleges outside Agra also. Just in Aligarh, in Mathurā, all are affiliated to Agra University. All other universities in UP are local universities, just like Allahabad, Benares, Lucknow.

Prabhupāda: This, our Bon Mahārāja's, that is also...

Bhagatji: Affiliated to Agra University, this quarter, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people came here to the temple from Manipur today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Did you preach to them, Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They are very impressed. They said they'll come many. They told me they're going to come in many numbers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about that temple in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I was thinking that we can start...

Prabhupāda: Receive them nicely. The Manipuri is devotee. Receive them nicely.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Manipur devotees are very enthusiastic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So is Svarūpa Dāmodara. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Prabhupāda: So Agra University, you lectured professors?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, professors and students, mostly the professors, from all departments: physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, and philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also asked me to bring a film from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So I'm going to show the "Spiritual Frontier" just after the lecture. So I'll go with the Fairchild, the movie projector.

Prabhupāda: Very good. When you have to go?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The lecture is at 3:15, so I'll go about 11 because I like to also talk personally with some professors to become members of the Institute. That's one of our projects.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the way you deal with us simply deepens our attachment every moment.

Prabhupāda: It is my duty. (laughter) There was a professor in Scottish Churches' College. So when you would say something, he would reply, "That's my duty," "juti," j-u-t-i. (chuckles) So there was a student. He said... So he said, "Is that Scottish pronunciation?" (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Pass urine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...properly fixed up?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it properly fixed up?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. All right.