Structure (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"structural" |"structure" |"structured" |"structures"

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: Daridra. Daridra means poor, poor. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is manufactured word by Vivekananda. They are so proud that "When a beggar comes at your door, you should treat him as Nārāyaṇa, daridra." These are simply high-sounding words. What they are doing actually for the daridras?

Revatinandana: So that is service in the mode of ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Revatinandana: That is service in the mode of ignorance?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients. The patients are increasing. Hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temples is increase, that is something sound. But they are increasing hospitals. What do you think? If we increase number of hospitals, does it mean that we are making progress? But they think that they are making progress. Just like in your country there is welfare department? The expenditure increasing.

Revatinandana: Yes, (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That means the social structure is very bad. Otherwise, natural procedure is that everyone should be self-independent. But why state has to give them help? That's not good. You may be... Just like a son may be very rich man's son, but if the father provides him only, then he's a useless son. Is it not? If the father has to provide him money for his maintenance, then that son is useless son. That is not a good certificate. Although you may be very much proud that "I am maintaining my so many sons," why you should maintain? Let them be self-supported.

Yadubara: But what can the state do? Should the state just leave the people alone?

Prabhupāda: No. They should make the citizens so nicely developed in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness that they should be self-dependent, self-satisfied. That is the ideal of civilization.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Mohsin Hassan: Now this movement must have structure. Will you please tell us about the structure of the (indistinct) from the hierarchy on the top, and all the way down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is, this movement is started from Kṛṣṇa.

Mohsin Hassan: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then, from Kṛṣṇa, Nārada. From Nārada, Vyāsadeva. From Vyāsadeva to Madhvācārya, from Madhvācārya to Īsvara Puri, Mādhavendra Puri, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then His disciples, the six Goswāmīs, then Kṛṣṇa dāsa Kavirāja, then Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa. So we are taking account very rigidly from Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and I am the tenth generation from Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a śūdra. It is meant for the kṣatriya. And nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the śūdras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaiśyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and śūdra and vaiśya. There is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brāhmaṇas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: There are so many married families. So many married families. He is married family, he is married family, he is married family. They have got children, wife, everything. There is no problem. The children are getting nice education, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing, eating nicely. Just now we are purchasing one house in front of our temple, seventy thousand dollars for providing gṛhasthas. Husband, wife, children will live there. So we have no problem. The gṛhasthas are there, the brahmacārīs are there, sannyāsīs are there—everyone is there. We maintain the Vedic culture, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. The eight orders of social structure we maintain. But they're all engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is the distinction. Everyone is twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.

David Lawrence: "2.) to give the teacher all the information," uh, where were we, "he or she may need to find out more than the booklet can include, for example, to satisfy the really interested inquirer, 3.) by a total sense experience, the cultural gap, which may unnecessarily alienate the students and therefore hamper a worthwhile consideration of the movement, 4.) by offering a wide variety of approaches, the student will not feel that he is simply studying another textbook, 5.) a booklet on Kṛṣṇa consciousness without the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra in a living form would be an absurdity, so the contents of the teacher's pack: A.) the forty-five r.p.m. record of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, B.) a glossy poster of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa, C.) a map of the devotional centers of Kṛṣṇa, D.) a list of additional films, filmstrips and records likely to help the student, both from the center and from elsewhere, E.) sample literature from the organization, e.g. Back to Godhead, F.) a pack of Spiritual Sky incense, G.) a filmstrip,"—the enclosure of the filmstrip depends on the costing; R.E. departments are always very poor in this country—"H.) recipes and notes on the meaning of ārati, I.) several sheets of objections to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and the rebuttals of these objections, J.) suggestions for the teaching of the subject." Then I've gone on to say a little bit about the structure of the booklet.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: It is a tiny structure of organic matter that can constantly reproduce...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. When reproduce, the last body is gone.

Prajāpati: They say that the chromosomes that are transferred from father to son...

Prabhupāda: Still, the father's body is not the son's body. It is different body.

Prajāpati: It has come from father's body.

Prabhupāda: That all right, but the father's body is different. The father's pains and pleasure and the son's pains and pleasure are not the same. It may be that the father has given the ingredient of the body, but that does not mean the father's body and the son's body the same. Neither the mind is same, neither intelligence is same. It is all different. Otherwise why a son becomes disobedient to the father, "I don't agree with you"? That means, "Your intelligence, your mind, is different from my mind. I cannot agree with you." Therefore everything is different.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: Well, a lot of young people that we meet in our teaching profession, we don't try to teach them any kind of didactic salvation. But we do try to direct them towards an awareness of what is best and what is most good for them and what is most spiritually nourishing in the world about them, in so far as the system allows us. And I speak of my friend Michael and we here. And the one condition or emotional state—because very frequently the students are not mature enough to be in a spiritual condition, they are in a emotional condition rather than a spiritual one—what we are faced with, is the basic question of "Who am I?" "What is it all about?" "Why am I here?" "Why should I be here"? "Who are you, and who the hell are you to tell me what to think or what to read or what not to read? Why should I read Shakespeare? Or why should I read Saint Augustine? Or why should I listen to Mozart? I prefer Bob Dylan," and these kind of questions which seem to emanate from a very disillusioned state of mind, an insecurity, an uncertainty, and a lack of credibility in the total structure of things as they are. And so we're frequently faced with not just directly having to answer these questions, as I said didactically answering them by saying in a catechismic sort of way: "Who am I?" "You are..." "What am I doing here?" "You are doing this here," which one can do, of course, also.

Prabhupāda: So...

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, that is kṣatriya. If one does not obey the social structure, he must be forced. That is the idea of slaves. The śūdras who do not work properly, he must be forced. Nobody should remain unemployed. The śūdras are inclined. If he has got something to eat, he will not work. You see? Then again he will work when his need, eating. This is śūdra mentality.

Bhagavān: So they have to be kept employed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have to be... They should not possess, so that they will work always.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: They do not...

Robert Gouiran: Nuclear physics has nothing to do with the study of creation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have nothing.

Robert Gouiran: Nuclear physics is just the study of the structure of matter.

Yogeśvara: The structure of matter?

Robert Gouiran: Yes. That's... How matter is done, as long as we could observe it. And how the matter is organized. And is it, is it possible to go in the deepest level where we could find the smallest particles. But nothing...

Prabhupāda: But so far nuclear weapon is concerned, so there is no much credit. Because it is a weapon for killing, death. Is it not? Not for that purpose?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Robert Gouiran: That's just business.

Prabhupāda: What is the nuclear physics?

Robert Gouiran: The nuclear physics is just a search of, the search of the structure of matter.

Yogeśvara: The structure, how matter is...

Robert Gouiran: How matter is done at the most elementary level.

Yogeśvara: Finding the smallest particles of...

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Robert Gouiran: There is also something we should do, we do in that rat race when we study the structure of matter that we could discover a new type of energies which could help humanity to survive. So it's not pure speculation. We don't know if it could be used. We don't know yet if what we are looking for is useful or not, but past experience has shown that humanity needs energy to live...

Prabhupāda: The energy is already there.

Robert Gouiran: Fire, electricity, or some other type of energy.

Prabhupāda: Energy is already there. You are working. I am working.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Prabhupāda: With energy. But what is that basic energy? The basic energy is that living force, life of the soul. And if that basic energy is absent, you cannot work any more, finished.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: When we dream, my body is left on the bed and I go somewhere. That we experience, that I am separate from this body. At that time I forget my, this body is lying down on the bed. I am acting in a different atmosphere. So and again, in daytime, I forget that at night I was in a different body, and I went to such and such place or on the sky I was flying. I forget. At night I forget this body and at daytime I forget that body. But I am existing. Therefore I am not this body. I am existing in this body and that body, but that body I have forgotten, and this body I forget. So this is a structure on my mind only. Actually I am different from the mind. And that is self-realization. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ (BG 3.42). Find out this verse. Manasas tu parā buddhir buddhes tu yaḥ saḥ. That's it. It is in the Third Chapter, I think.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (1): Well, it's more involved than just saying that. Sun is just a big complex of hydrogen and helium, a big pile of rubbish really, but it develops this marvelous reactions which causes it to work as a big nuclear reactor, an entirely different story, what the vision of science, of the present science, about the meaning of celestial bodies and the meaning of, in particular, of sun and moon and so on. We are extremely realistic about this world. We can't see, assuming all the glory of that what happens on the earth due to the existence of those bodies, we do not try to look inside of the structure of these things, as something meant for us. Just universe as it is... And this question, like Nietzchean question which I am repeating—that's not my point—this big question is... Western philosophy presently does not answer, does not ask this question. I think that this scientist who did ask it had quite a point. This question expresses the quest of the human race for some meaning for some sense, for some sense. That's what religion is now offering us, or philosophy, or... Rarely, directly, we hear the direct answer to that.

Prabhupāda: What is your direct answer?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, to become blind is advancement, certainly. When this is... Who will say it is moving unless he's a fool? Nonsense. (laughter) Moving, that's all right. Everyone... The whole world is moving. That is another thing. But as it is, why, where it is moving?

Rāmeśvara: They're talking about the atomic structure, that the atoms are moving.

Prabhupāda: And therefore it is moving.

Rāmeśvara: Within, the atoms, there is movement.

Prabhupāda: Then here, today, this morning, you'll see it is lying there. Tomorrow you'll come. You'll see it is lying there. Where it is moving? What does it mean by moving?

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If you give up this varṇāśrama-dharma, then where is your bhāratīya sanskṛiti? But they are trying to give it up, abolish this. Then where is bhāratīya sanskṛiti? Then?

Brahmānanda: "Six: Injunctions of śāstras regarding charity and how it should be practiced in the present conditions. So the mutual relationship of dharma and politics in the light of our history and tradition can only be revived when we observe the system of varṇāśrama. It is actually like this: the brāhmaṇa is like the head, and the kṣatriya is like the arms, the vaiśya is the stomach or the abdomen, and the śūdra is like the legs. Similarly, spiritually, the brahmacārī is the trained-up disciple, the gṛhastha is the trained-up householder, the vānaprastha is experienced as a retired gentleman, and the sannyāsī is completely in the renounced order of life for spiritual advancement. There is no question of the head being in an exalted position without the cooperation of the leg. When there is a pin-prick in some part of the leg, the head immediately takes it very seriously and takes out the thorn in some part of the leg. Similarly, whenever there is some outside attack, the arms or the hands spread to protect the whole body. In the same way, within the abdomen there is the machinery of digesting foodstuffs, and after digestion the secretion turns into blood and it is infused throughout the whole anatomical structure of the body. Similarly, the cooperation between the head, arms, stomach and legs is the perfect situation of the human society."

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: In this connection you have quoted Lord Brahmā, saying that... Lord Brahmā says that the great material scientists, they may be able to calculate the atomic structure of the material world and the planetary system, but even if Kṛṣṇa is standing right in front of them, they can't calculate His potencies.

Prabhupāda: Vivekananda liked to say, he challenged Ramakrishna, "Can you show me God?" He said, "Yes," and he showed him God and then he became disciple.

Paramahaṁsa: They're saying that this Bal Yogeshwara, people ask him "Can you show what is God," and he says, "Oh, yes," then he shows them.

Prabhupāda: Where he is now, this Bal Yogeshwara?

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is fourth class. This is the proof. Fourth-class men administering... Just like misadministration not immediately detected. After some time, when the case is unmanageable, it is detected. Therefore fourth-class men. Simply these Western people, they know how to earn money by hook and crook. So, so long the money is there it is covered, the fourth-class men. And when the money is finished, they are exposed, fourth-class men. They're simply covered by money. No social structure, no spiritual understanding, no character, nothing of the sort. Still India, so fallen, you... 95% people, living, husband and wife, very peacefully. And in the Western countries after six months' marriage, divorce. Are they not fourth class? Even the husband and wife cannot continue peaceful life, what to speak of others. Now this rascal Jawaharlal Nehru has introduced divorce in the Hindu society.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, Mahīrāvaṇa. And in that plan he was killed. (break) That is Indo-European civilization. The kings came from India, and he developed. Therefore it is called Indo-European civilization.

Paramahaṁsa: The scientists and the archaeologists are very amazed to find the structures, the buildings that they had in their civilization. They can't understand how they were built, such huge pillars and gigantic stones. They don't know how they were put into place.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the Jagannātha temple is also like that. They suggest that they manufacture, and then they surround with sand, then further manufacture. And when it is complete the sand is taken away. Otherwise how it is put into...? The sand is stacked just like this. The temple is being manufactured, and the sand is thrown all side, and when it is finished, the sand is taken away.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, as usual. Just like they dig well. They dig well. They begin immediately, and then you dig the earth, and the structure goes down. Then again, then again, like that. They were experts, they were experts, to construct... Labor is cheap. That time, practically there was no labor cost. At the present moment, on account of factories, the labor cost has increased. Otherwise the laborers, they were, they have no sufficient employment. So two annas, four annas. I was paying labor, four annas, say, in 1930s. Four annas. In Allahabad I was paying four annas. He would work whole day. In Bombay eight annas.

Devotee (1): They also have the big structures in Egypt, the pyramids.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...defect of the Western country is practically there is no social structure. The father, mother, they divorce, and the children become careless. Most cases this is the defect.

Director: Happens, yes.

Prabhupāda: I have seen many of my students, their family, whole family disrupt on account of father and mother, even in old age, divorce. I have seen Brahmānanda's mother. His father was very... still living. Very good businessman, very nice family, good income. All of a sudden the father and mother disagreed, they divorce. The sons were somewhere; the daughters were somewhere.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: And the father married again, the mother married again. They were not happy, and the business also closed. So by one instance I can understand that how in the Western countries people become out of social structure. The root cause is godlessness. Root cause.

Director: And now divorce is getting easier too, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous law to allow divorce. Divorce should not be allowed. Even there is some disagreement between husband and wife, it should be neglected. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita... He was great politician. He has said that dampatya kalahe caiva bahvārambhe laghu kriyā. The husband and wife's quarrel should not be taken very seriously. Ajā yuddhe (More quote by Cāṇakya) Just like fight between two goats. They are fighting, and if you say "Hut!" they will go away. Similarly, the fight between husband and wife should not be taken very seriously. Let them fight for some time; they will stop automatically. But the husband and wife fight, and he, as soon as he goes to the lawyer and he gives incentive, "Yes, come to the court."

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: That was not completed, Prabhupāda. That's just a description of the courses. Yet we have to add a biography about Your Divine Grace, description of the disciplic succession, the activities of ISKCON, and how the college relates to ISKCON. That was simply an explanation of what courses would be given and how they would be structured.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. (break) How it will be conducted? The idea is very nice. Who has analyzed?

Bahulāśva: Who has...? Dharmādhyakṣa has done the analytical breakdown.

Prabhupāda: Oh, analysis is done nice, of the study.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So we can see on equal level when (sic:) you become a brāhmaṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, not in the United Nation, passing resolution and fight is going on outside, because they have no vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. So the politicians should be guided by the brāhmaṇas. That is social structure. Those who are first-class men in the spiritual understanding... Or the politicians, the administrators, they should take instruction from the brāhmaṇas and take part in politics. Then they will be also first-class men. You haven't got to drag him down again. First of all elect, and drag him down. This is mistake. Just like you elected Nixon president; again you dragged him down, because there was mistake. You do not know who to elect because you are not guided by brāhmaṇas. This is the fault. The whole society is being guided by the mle..., śūdras and some portion vaiśyas. Mostly śūdras and some certain percentage, mercantile. And no kṣatriya, no brāhmaṇa.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And those who are useless for any of these three occupational duties, they are called fourth-class. And those who are still lower than that, they are called fifth-class, sixth-class, like that. So our educational system should be so arranged that there may be first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men, not less than fourth-class men. Then the social structure will be in order and everyone will be peaceful, aiming at the point, how to go back to home, back to Godhead. Unless there is such structure of the society... Just like in our body we have got four divisions, the head, the arms, the belly and the leg. All of them are required. But the position of the head and position of the leg are different. Head means giving direction, and arms means giving protection, and belly means receiving food for energy of the body, and leg means working. So the human society must be divided into four section, and they should work combinedly, cooperatively.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Reporter (3): (a woman) Where... Do women fit into this social structure? You keep referring to man.

Prabhupāda: Woman is not equally intelligent as a man.

Reporter (3): Equal in intelligence?

Prabhupāda: Not equal intelligence. In the psychology, practical psychology, they have found that the man's brain has been found up to sixty-four ounce, woman... Sixty-four ounce, man's brain. And woman's brain has been found, thirty-six ounce. So therefore woman is not equally intelligent like man.

Reporter (3): So where does she fit?

Prabhupāda: You will find in practical psychology.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: She's asking where does woman fit into this structure?

Prabhupāda: Now, woman is supposed to be assistant of man. If woman is faithful wife of the first-class man, then she also becomes first-class. If she is assistant of the second-class man then he is also second-class. If she is assistant of the third-class man, then she is also third-class. Because she is assistant, so, according to her husband, or protector, she becomes first, second, third, fourth.

Reporter (3): But she doesn't have any structure at all until marriage?

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: No, she has got structure—she has got brain. I have already told. But not as good as man's brain.

Reporter (3): You means she's not qualified as first, second, or third-class until she marries?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Woman requires to be protected—in childhood by the father, in youthhood by the husband, and in old age by the elderly sons.

Reporter (2): What is your feeling in regard to Mrs. Gandhi's actions in India at the present time, particularly in relation to what you're saying about women? Is what's happening there because she has a thirty-six ounce brain and is incapable of ruling?

Prabhupāda: Well, what is scientific proof, that is equally applicable to Mrs. Gandhi or to any ordinary woman.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: So that you would see then, in terms of, in terms of some kind of theological structure, you would see that Puruṣottama as always...

Prabhupāda: Uttama, uttama means the best.

Prof. Hopkins: Always superior.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Hopkins: And always...

Prabhupāda: That is the word, puruṣottama. Puruṣottama means supreme or superior. So there must be inferior, otherwise, how he is superior? Is it not?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: And now your point is that the time has come for society and the world to find out if there are cracks in the superstructure. Whether these cracks are just superficial cracks or whether they are caused by foundational cracks or shifts in the corners of the foundational structure. And I, like you, I believe that this is not entirely a question of... Well, it's certainly not a question of whether it's Hinduism or Christian or Islam.

Prabhupāda: It is the foundation.

Prof. Olivier: It's the foundation. But we know so little about the foundation. When the rich man in the Bible asked the Lord to send this poor man down to warn his brothers, the Lord said they've had all the prophets all the years and they haven't listened. Any new evidence they will not accept either. I think that we have enough evidences around us. We need not seek more evidences, except I believe, through more direct contact with the workings of the holy spirit itself, which I think is available. But again, which I agree with you, I don't think we have exploited enough.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Vaikuṇṭha planet, where is the Goloka planet, where is this material world—in this way.

Bhāgavata: So if that's what you want, then we should not make a permanent structure? We should make some temporary structure like last year.

Prabhupāda: That you decide yourself.

Bhāgavata: So we should engage the local dollmakers in doing this.

Prabhupāda: First of all you have your place; then make dolls. But dolls should not be exactly like this, in the same way. But when you make actually, then I will give you how the models should be made. Now, how to do, where to do, that, it is your business. You decide, some of yourself, and do the needful. You have not yet done any plan for the big temple?

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Cooking, of course, you can get pots, brass pots. (break) ...temple. Huh?

Mahāṁsa: The structure is over, Prabhupāda. Now the ornamental work is started since last fifteen days. They said they could finish it by March, but I don't know if we'll be able to push it before that. Since last one month the collections have also increased. So if the collections go on in the same speed as we are going now, it may be finished by March. But otherwise definitely by August it will be complete. (break) ...fifteenth of this month Indira Gandhi was in Hyderabad. I got a letter from Praghoṣa that there were lakhs of people there to see her, and we have printed up coupons which we go shop to shop and tell everyone that "You buy one brick for the temple. So eleven rupees is the cost of one brick.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Saurabha: No. These poles, they all set in size about nine feet. You notice they're about fifteen to eighteen feet. So we use them only for the scaffolding.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) ...anyhow, they have done it very quickly. Our engineers could not have done it so quickly as that. You are quite fast. And the structure is very strong.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) I say they are quite slow.

Dr. Patel: No, no, but it takes its own time for curing and all these things. How can an engineer accelerate that natural process? And that structure is really extremely strong.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We want to see the temple also. (kīrtana) (end)

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Is there water? Bring it. Hmm, yes?

Arnold Weiss: The mind questions some of these things, and these questions kind of flow naturally, and one wonders why the structure of the universe or of the world has been made in such a fashion that it takes a great deal of misery and difficulty for us to turn towards God.

Prabhupāda: Because he doesn't want to turn towards God.

Arnold Weiss: Because we don't want to?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like God says that "You surrender unto Me." And who is going to surrender? He says clearly, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and who is doing that? So why he'll not suffer? He must suffer.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We were finding, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they could not defeat varṇāśrama dharma. They had no society like varṇāśrama. In the colleges, they could not understand this body, but we showed them how the society could be arranged harmoniously, and they had no alternative. Their ideas on how to structure society for everyone's happiness, they have no good ideas. So that preaching platform they could understand, varṇāśrama.

Prabhupāda: They'll understand. I'm just pointing out the difficulties of your preaching. You'll have to face all these difficulties. They're like cats and dogs. They are not even human beings. Therefore the business is little hard job. You have to deal with cats and dogs. But still there is hope, because they have got this human form of life. There is hope. It is not hopeless. Don't be disappointed, but this is the job. You have to meet with cats and dogs. That is my point.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Take the chemicals?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes. We can analyze the chemical structure and make...

Prabhupāda: No, the flower has taken directly, without any chemical addition. You do that. It is a fact the flavor is there within the earth, you take the flavor, extract the flavor. Not only this flavor, there are different flavors, all, everything there. There are so many flowers coming out. Huh? Sarva-kāma dugha-mahī. Mahī means earth. Everything's coming out from the earth. But not in your attempt. It is Kṛṣṇa's attempt that He can take out. Out of so many different flavors, everything is there within the earth, but Kṛṣṇa's manipulation takes the different colors, different flavors, different bodies, everything.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now these statements are quite scientifically valid and sound. Now this will be verified in our next slide that is called the axioms. This is called structure of a theory. In scientific disciplines, specifically in mathematics, now scientists work with a beginning called axioms. There are two types of axioms. First one is logical axiom, and second one is theoretical axioms. Now from these axioms, by inference, actually one deduces these theorems. That's in the second block. From there, by observation, we have this object of study. Now the basic question is wherefrom these axioms coming from? The starting point, axioms, they take it for granted, and actually there is no proof. It is beyond proof, beyond any scientific proof.

Prabhupāda: Vedānta-sūtra means all axiom. Vedānta-sūtra, that is all axiom. Axiomatic truth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the third point, lacks—in matter column—lacks specific inherent complex form, and life column has a specific complex form and activity by nature. Now here we are talking about complex form. Normally the matter itself is very simple by nature, but life tends, when the living entity is in a living body, the matter itself is also very complex when it is associated with life. But matter per se is a very simple, simple structure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can you say, though, that the soul has a complex form?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.

Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this connection, this variegatedness in connection with life, can you take it as some sort of complex structures?

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the..., from our experience, it is quite clear though that matter, as such... For example, let's take a crystal of diamond or, that will be shown later in the slide, that there are... Actually crystal of diamond is built in very simple structures. It's a hexagon, six carbon atoms, one after another, forms a very simple structure. But on the other hand, now when life is in association with matter, if we take a simple cell, the cell is composed of so many big, big molecules like proteins and DNA's and all these giant molecules. And they are wonderfully complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what this studying of a dead man, the molecules? When a man is dead, what is the condition of the molecules?

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: You cannot bring it to any material platform. Everything is denied.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now to make a simile or comparison, we found from our experience in science that matter itself is rather very simple. It is composed of simple patterns and simple forms and structures. But now when this matter is touched by life or matter in association with life, is actually very complex in terms of molecules. It comes to big molecules, and the molecules not only big. It's very complex, highly complex.

Prabhupāda: You can understand, just the one grain of poison, potassium cyanide. You touch on your tongue, immediately whole body becomes poisoned. How the molecules spread immediately?

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The soul is not complicated.

Sadāpūta: I believe what Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu is saying is that matter, each element studied by itself, has a simple structure, but when the body is formed with the soul, then it becomes apparently more complex; the chemical reactions become more complex.

Rūpānuga: As a matter of growth even. Because life is present, then this small pea grows.

Prabhupāda: That means that soul is not complicated.

Rūpānuga: No, not the soul. But that the presence of the soul causes growth.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But that is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we had one explanation saying that now, the way we percept knowledge, though we understand things, there is also a conditioning behind it. So actually this is a fact, but in Mathematics, if we change the axiom, then we have a whole new understanding, it's almost completely upside down, but still we can interpret the result. It is just like a simple jumble(?), while Nils Bohr, studying the structure of the atom. Now he had a mathematical equation to fit the phenomena of this atom, and actually you can perfectly describe this phenomena by this equation, but, now, at morning times, this quantum mechanics, it turns out whatever he did was completely wrong, but it can be described completely, perfectly well as his model, as is our present understanding. But now his theories (indistinct), he could explain things on his own, but still it's completely wrong. So similarly...

Prabhupāda: They are right. They may present the wrong thing, but still they are right.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, in New York City, many of these big buildings have courtyards, and in the courtyards they have purchased sculpture. So all the sculpture is abstract. They are against form; they are all impersonalists. And they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to have these gigantic structures. All over New York City you see them. They have no form.

Prabhupāda: That is a form. The structure itself has a form.

Rāmeśvara: But it's abstract.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not ab..., it is form.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not personal, that's what he means.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And when they'll fall?

Bali-mardana: When the earthquake comes, boom, everything finished.

Hari-śauri: That structure you saw in Toronto, that big tower? That's supposed to be the highest free-standing structure in the world. Over fifteen hundred feet.

Bali-mardana: In Boston there is one big skyscraper, John Hancock Building, and they cannot utilize it because... What is the reason?

Ādi-keśava: Every time the wind blows it begins to bend back and forth in the breeze.

Bali-mardana: It swings.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: So you have given everything. You have given all the structure. We have to present it rightly.

Prabhupāda: Even, say, hundred years ago, that Girish Chandra Ghosh, he wanted to introduce theatrical performances, imitating the European theatrical performances, man and woman taking part. So he wanted to invite woman artist. Not a single woman joined. Who will go to public stage to dance, respectable girl? They'll never. That is hundred years. I am speaking, say, about forty years ago. In one of our Dayanika(?) men, the girl was to be married, and it is the custom in India—the bridegroom's party comes to see the girl, whether she is right. Similarly, the girl's party goes to see the.... So they came to see one of my friend's daughter, and the daughter is very beautiful, rich man's daughter. So one of the bridegroom's party questioned, "You know how to dance?" That was the question to the girl: "You have learned something about dancing and singing?" So she was my friend's daughter, my, that friend, Mukunda Mati.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: It is stated in the Bhāgavatam that once in every structure of the universe, every living entity gets the opportunity to have guru and Kṛṣṇa and very, very nice situation. He gets that opportunity.

Prabhupāda: That I am speaking, that this is the only chance of Kṛṣṇa, guru, and if he neglects this chance, then tanwan sthito hi ga(?). What is the loss more than that? We are simply calculating loss and gain. Just imagine what is the loss by misusing this human form of body. If you want to spoil this life under the influence of misleaders, you can do it. But if you prefer to take the sense of following leadership of Kṛṣṇa, then our life... Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That comes mām ekam, ekam—then your life is successful. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I'll give you protection in all respects." So if we don't take this opportunity, then we are cutting our own throat. Do it, you can do it. Who can save you?

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. So this whole western civilization is threatened.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are afraid of the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their whole economic structure will fail. Theoretically, take it for granted that if people give up meat-eating...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No smoking, no drinking.

Prabhupāda: Then whole civilization finished. Even theoretically taken, no smoking, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, their whole civilization is finished. Lord Zetland said... Not only that, one Sir Valentine Chiro (?), I think, Sir Valentine Chiro, British, important, when Gandhi started non-cooperation. So he remarked that "If Gandhi's movement, this non-cooperation movement is one percent successful, then we will have to leave it." And actually that happened. Because they were ruling over India by Indian cooperation.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi struck to the right point, non-cooperation, and he scented the danger, and he remarked at that time, that if one percent of the Indian people non-cooperate then we are, our British empire finished. So there are intelligent persons, they are thinking in their own way that this movement is so strong against this modern material civilization, if it is allowed to spread then our whole civilization, whole economic structure will be finished.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What they're doing now, these parents are getting in contact with devotees who have blooped, and they're getting these devotees to make statements against us.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They are living peacefully in a villa in Paris so happily that ah... Some, one gentleman came to see me "Swamiji, you are preaching against meat-eating, this cannot be done in this country, then we will starve." I said "No, you will never starve. You take this formula." (laughs) So they are thinking like that.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Government nei, public.

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Theoretically, if our principles are adopted by the American people in general, as my disciples have done, then their whole industrial structure will be broken.

Guest (1): Not actually. Don't affect so much because all are not going to be... Even in India it is not.

Prabhupāda: This is one thing. This is one thing, that... No, they are taking seriously. And another thing is that if the public opinion becomes in favor of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then they will get vote and they'll capture government, because it is republic. That is another point, another. The most important point is: these boys who come to me, they forget forever their families or father, mother. No family. That is their great shock.

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Pṛthu-putra: They follow very strictly the laws of Koran. Even their whole social structure is based on Koran.

Prabhupāda: That is here in India also.

Pṛthu-putra: But they are also killing the animals.

Prabhupāda: Their Koran, their Koran... Oh, that is... What can we do? They are habituated. In Arabia where is food?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. Very desert most of the time.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: "I remember well the time when the thought of the eye made..." What is that? "...eye(?) made me cold, when the eye(?) made me cold all over, but I have got over this stage of the complaint, and now a small trifling, particulars of structure, often make me very uncomfortable. The sight of a feather in a peacock's tail, whenever I (sic?) crease at the neck..."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "Make me sick."

Prabhupāda: "Make me sick." What does he mean by this?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He says... See, his theory of evolution cannot explain how these eyes are evolved, our eyes. So he felt very uncomfortable just seeing in the beginning these eyes, our eyes. But he says that stage he has overcome to some extent. But still, one particular phenomenon is bothering him very much. That is the eye in the peacock's tail. It is the delicate, nice design with is colorful structure.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is speaking as person. (break)

Devotee (1): ...possibility that there is a soul and that there is a God. But when... I showed them a Fifth Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and they were reading about the structure of the universe in the Bhāgavatam, and this was completely opposite to all their experiments. So if this is actually a fact, then why can't it be proved experimentally that the Bhāgavatam statements on the origin of the universe and so on are correct?

Prabhupāda: It is correct. How they can prove it is incorrect?

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Apart from that, first of all you have to distinguish that what is important. The active principle within the body that is working, that is important? Or the superficial body structure is important?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that there is no difference.

Prabhupāda: There is difference, and therefore you have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The body itself is active, not that there is something in the body making it active. The blood, the brains—this is part of the body.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the position of this body? Active... Just like this table is not active.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes people ask whether I have seen anything very powerful in Śrīla Prabhupāda. I sometimes answer, saying that when Śrīla Prabhupāda came to the United States, all the foreign disciples, all the Americans, they all because of their social structure, eating all kinds of things, but they are all now pure Vaiṣṇavas. So it is the greatest wonder that one can expect. So they become very silent, just hearing the answer, seeing that there is something very powerful.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all they admitted in that Voice, that "We thought God is dead. Here Swamiji has brought." They admitted like that. (break) ...wife, she is also coming from very respectable family. Her father, grandfather all... Doctor had big...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad. Dr. Ghosh.

Room Conversation -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cows were running away?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Unless they could understand that "We are kept here for being slaughtered," why they were running away?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They speak of peace, such nonsense. How can they expect peace when they're slaughtering?

Prabhupāda: All do. It is very, very demons', the Western civilization. No social structure, no mercy. All good qualities devoid. Simply animals in good dress. That's all. (end)

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Is there any Deities?

Guru dāsa: No. Actually, my opinion is that it would be a great endeavor to take it, because the house needs also some repair. Although it is in good structural condition, it needs cleaning. But the only advantage is that there is no place left in Kali-yuga like it. Because it is such a beautiful mansion. And one hundred acres and a lake and in a hill, that's the advantage.

Prabhupāda: And what price does he want?

Guru dāsa: The price he didn't say yet. That we would have to negotiate.

Prabhupāda: Not only you, others also, you can see first of all. If we can utilize, otherwise...

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: Charan Singh (Hindi) "Ninety murders in one district. 'There was a constitutional breakdown in the states,' he said. The chief minister of Maratha states had admitted to him that his government's reach was no longer running the way it had done earlier. He was receiving many complaints from the U.P., Rajasthan, and Haryana. Fifty murders have been committed in one district in Bihar in one week. Mr. Charan Singh's statement, which was preceded by the (indistinct) meeting earlier in the morning, led to a spate of questions. He was asked whether he was going counter to the spirit of the federal structure which permitted different ruling parties and centers and states, whether the ruling party M.P. would be asked to resign if a state..., if the states they came from turned down his party government and whether the central government would not invoke the power of an article which stated by the Constitution despite capitalism in the Janata party election manifesto."

Prabhupāda: So what is this yoga? (laughs) Sanjay Gandhi's yoga, just see. A rogue, devil, he is practicing yoga. His mother was practicing also yoga, the same.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Formerly India was very advanced in devotion.

Mr. Dwivedi: And just near there is moving door, shutting door. It has got nine pillars. If you just push one pillar, the entire structure shifts. And the pity is the archaeological department of government of India has taken no care about this. We had some good statue of Buddha and Mahāvīra and... Two, three were stolen away. We collected at our own institution. Then ultimately I wrote to government. I said, "Already some statue have been stolen away. You kindly left it wherever you like. We can't protect them from thieves." Just three months back. Then they took away another three statue, one of Viṣṇu, one of Buddha, another of Mahāvīra.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "There was..."?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "There was a blank. There was a void." Everything was blank. And the way he started, the foreword was given by a scientist called Crick, Watson and Crick. Crick is in Cambridge, and Watson is in Harvard. So these two men were the men who discovered the structure of the DNA molecule that they thought that may be life. And they got Nobel Prize for this. And Crick was writing in the first page, saying that "This is the way we have understood about life." But "Everything was started like that, from blank and a blank, blank. And somehow all these molecules get together and then it became Johnny later on." (laughter) And we can make a nice story out of it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But we have to accept śāstra.

Bhakti-prema: This outer structure of the Lord is one with the Lord. It is inconceivable; it is not conceivable.

Prabhupāda: Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa. Acintya. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Acintya.

Bhakti-prema: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Give me that pineapple juice. (break)

Bhakti-prema: If it is inconceivable, then don't try to...

Prabhupāda: We are not lying to you.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa-aṣṭamī. Lord Kṛṣṇa's celebration." Full center page. "A voyage of discovery." "A Christian tribute to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." There's a picture of Your Divine Grace here. It's an article reprinted from Back to Godhead. It says, "All material in this special feature taken from Back to Godhead, the official magazine of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." This is all... It seems like what they have done... The same thing they did in Fiji, they have done there in South Africa. Because many of the articles... This is a whole..., also all about our society. All of these pages. "Hare Kṛṣṇa puzzle is unraveled." "Jagannātha car festival is one of the oldest in history." Then it tells about the program, how to get to the farm. Then he sent photographs. It's a very beautiful temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I don't know if you can see it. This is the temple. You see the white structure here? You can see it has arched domes? Not domes but arches.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't matter. "...Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed that life was independent of matter and dependent on higher principles lying beyond the present limitations of physics and chemistry. The assumption that life itself was nonphysical was the key note. The conference was opened by Dr. Prem Kripal, former president of the executive board of UNESCO. Three lectures were delivered by Dr. Thoudam D. Singh, director of the Institute; Mr. Robert Cohen, a geologist from USA; and Dr. Michael Marchetti, a theoretical chemist and student of the philosophy of science; on the fundamental nature of life and matter, new findings in paleontology and their effect on the theory of evolution, and the social consequences of the materialistic view of life. The philosophical foundations of life was the theme by discourse by Dr. S. R. Bhatt, associate professor of philosophy at Delhi University. Dr. Richard Thompson, a mathematician from Cornell University, and Mr. David Webb from England dealt with the application of information theory to the theory of evolution, thermodynamics and the origin of life. The limitations of science were discussed by Dr. A. Ramaya, professor of Biochemistry of the All-India Institute of Medical Science. Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There was intricate features of life, ranging from the structures of molecules and living cells to the subtle ones of human personality.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said. Dr. Thompson dealt with the mathematical analysis of the laws of nature studied in modern chemistry and physics. 'In the light of the modern theory of information, these laws can be shown to be unable to account for the highly complex and unique structures of living organisms. It can also be shown that the quantum-mechanical laws suffer from serious shortcomings, because they cannot account for the nature of any conscious observer. Both of these lines of evidence supporting the view that the living being is a nonphysical entity and that the behavior of matter when in the present of life proves that there must be further higher order laws and principles as yet unknown to modern science.' All of these conclusions were in agreement with the observed phenomena of life, and they also corroborate the systemic description of the nature of life given in the Bhagavad-gītā. There was a general agreement among the participants of the conference that this approach to understanding the nature of life provided a viable alternative to the materialistic view of modern science."

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Dr. Singh opposed the theory that life could be understood solely in terms of chemical combinations. There were intricate features of life ranging from the structure of molecules in living cells to the subtle ones of human personality. The simple push-pull laws of chemistry and physics 'cannot account for these phenomena,' and 'life and matter are understood as two distinct kinds of energy.' Mr. Cohen said that 'Proof of the Darwinian theory of evolution must depend in the end on the fossil record. Darwin's theory required that all the different species of life were gradually transformed one into another through many small changes, mutations. Yet prominent paleontologists such as Eldridge and Gould are now maintaining that the fossil record only supports the view that species remain static in form and that changes between them, if they do really occur at all, can only occur by abrupt leaps. An examination of possible causes for such leaps shows that they could only be accounted for by the action of a higher intelligence,' he said.