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Story (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...getting worse over these five thousand years, but by a reintroduction, reintroducing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the tide can be turned in age of Kali?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the only remedy. That is the only remedy. Anyone who takes to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, he'll be cleansed of all sinful activities and then everything will come out nice. And it is practical. It is not story. Just see, all our disciples in Europe, America, they were habituated to so many bad habits, and because they are chanting, they are now cleansed. So it is small-scale. If you propagate it large-scale, everyone will be cleansed. (break) ...disciples who were trained up from very beginning of their life: meat-eating. They are giving meat-eating. Here in your country, small children, they are fed with meat-powder. Intoxication is also a daily affair. How they are giving up all intoxication? (break) Is there arrangement for... Where is Karandhara?

Karandhara: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then Brahmānanda give me assurance. "I can take charge." Therefore I signed. But factually, he was as good as Madhudviṣa. (laughs) He made a contract with a, that camp, forty thousand rupees. I settled up for ten thousand rupees. So our work is going on in India and money's spent. Fifty percent is spoiled by this American brain. What can be done? There is no... They'll loot. They cheat. Like anything. Just like this camp. It was, it was Brahmānanda and Madhudviṣa combined together made a contract-forty thousand rupees. Then I said that "Then I am not going to pay you. You go." In Kumbha Melā also, the contract was ten thousand. So five thousand already paid. So I said, "I have no money. You have to become satisfied with the ten thousand." So they began some trouble, but after all, accepted. Because they make five hundred percent profit.

Gurukṛpā: As soon as they see American, it becomes twice as much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Twice not. Five hundred times. (laughter) As soon as they face: "They're Americans. They have got money."

Gurukṛpā: Same thing in market. When they go shopping and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Damn cheap." "Damn cheap, bābu." I have told this story, "Damn cheap, bābu"? Eh?

Gurukṛpā: No. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah! Ah!

Mr. Sar: So ignorant folks... No, no. I tell you, this is the ignorant folks. That is likely to happen in all religions.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura punished one Viṣikiṣeṇa. I'll tell that story. It is a fact. One avatāra came. And he was doing that in the village. And they complained to the police officer. And it went to the High Commissioner. And then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was that time Magistrate. So the Commissioner knew that he is a pious man. So he entrusted the matter. And it was a long story. I'll tell you some time.

Mr. Sar: No, no. The founders were well-intentioned, but then, after these followers, you see, they only looked to the rituals and not to the spirit...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't...

Mr. Sar: You know, they forget that this will be sukṛtina. Bhakta should be sukṛtina first, and then bhakta. That they forget. So it happens, you see, in all the...

Prabhupāda: No, this thinking, that "I am as good as Kṛṣṇa," this Māyāvāda philosophy has done so much havoc.

Morning Walk -- February 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He knows also.

Guest (4): I know also. He spoiled so many girls, you see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have gone to him so many times in Calcutta.

Guest (4): (Hindi) This is the story of before ten or fifteen years old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and now he's at the head of that Gītā Press.

Prabhupāda: Hiralal.

Guest: No, no, no, no, no. Not that Guṇḍā (?). That is different. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but Prabhupāda was speaking of that one.

Bhava-bhūti: It was Gandhi who said that Arjuna was the soul, that it is all allegory, too. He also interpreted Gītā like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he interpreted like that.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: As a physician, you cannot deny...

Dr. Patel: As a physician, I will treat even animal...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That...

Dr. Patel: ...if he is dying. That is different story. But I won't...

Prabhupāda: So that is our position.

Dr. Patel: That is right.

Prabhupāda: That is our position.

Dr. Patel: That is... I am discharging my duty. But had I been a prime minister of this country, I would have discharged my duty that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't like Muslim culture, but...

Dr. Patel: But I, I hate them!

Prabhupāda: But...!

Dr. Patel: Because...! Because, to them...! Pardon me interrupting. They, their culture is this. I consider every woman to be my sister, excepting my wife. They consider every woman equal to their wife excepting their sister. This is the difference between the two cultures.

Prabhupāda: So then... Why do you...? Mean, there are different, many cultures. But we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa culture. That's all.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata is (indistinct)

Dr. Patel: In this particular part.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa...

Dr. Patel: I thought Bhāgavata was a book of stories, so I was not reading. I am so truthful to you. That is, I read all, I myself, more than half a dozen times all the, mean, twelve Upaniṣads. But I said, "Bhāgavata why?"

Prabhupāda: No, Bhāgavata is...

Dr. Patel: But I read it in Gujarati...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata, in the beginning it is said, nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam (SB 1.1.3).

Dr. Patel: That first śloka you explained to me. First śloka.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Dr. Patel: First.

Prabhupāda: Janmādy asya ya... (SB 1.1.1).

Dr. Patel: Ah! Janmādy asya. It becomes very difficult for me to understand.

Prabhupāda: It is not difficult. No. Because the question... It is the explanation of Brahma-sūtra. So the Brahma-sūtra, the beginning is athāto brahma jijñāsā. "What about Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth?" The next verse is, immediately, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "The Supreme Absolute Truth is that..."

Dr. Patel: "...from which everything is born."

Prabhupāda: "...everything is born." Now that Bhāgavata begins the answer: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: You must have read the carpet-flying in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I used to read such stories...

Prabhupāda: Actually, the aeroplanes mentioned in the śāstra, they are not machine. Mantra.

Dr. Patel: Mantra.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because this puṣpa-vimāna, it could land anywhere...

Guest (3): Puṣpa-vimāna also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was...

Dr. Patel: The puṣpa-vimāna was with the...

Prabhupāda: ...flying in mantra.

Dr. Patel: Not, it was not...

Prabhupāda: Now scientific improvement has been done, but that is on the gross material platform.

Dr. Patel: Spiritually, they must be worthy.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not spiritual. That is also subtle. Just like mind, the speed of mind. The mind is material. By mind speed, you can... Just imagine. You are here. Immediately, within a second, you go to Calcutta.

Morning Walk -- March 3, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that signboard... (break) Yes.

Nitāi: What's the story behind the rediscovery of Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Nitāi: Is there some story related to the way in which Māyāpur was found by Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī?

Prabhupāda: The Ganges is going sometimes that side, then this side. So it was under the impression that original Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthsite is now under water. Or there were many theories and suggestions. Later on, Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī said that "Here is the..." Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Nitāi: In previous days, it was a very big city.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Indian: Ācchā. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the position. "You wanted to become a sera. All right, you become a sera. Jump over some animal and immediately suck his blood." All facility is—the nails, the teeth-given. But is he happy? But everyone thinking that "If I could become like this, I would have been happy." So Kṛṣṇa gives all chance. "All right, you become this." This is transmigration. This is transmigration. (break) ...yathāndhair upa... We are thinking something like that, and Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance, "All right, you take this chance; you become like this." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). But it will not make you happy. Therefore ultimately says, sarva-dharmān. "You give up all this rascaldom. What I speak, you can accept. That is your dharma." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). That will be beneficial for you, the most confidential instruction. There is that story that one old woman, she was suffering. And she had to collect woods from the forest and sell in the market. So one day, how do you say, she was praying to Kṛṣṇa, or God, that "Kindly help me. I am in very poverty-stricken." So one day, she was carrying that load of fuel. It fell down. So nobody was there to help him.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to sometimes do that. Just like that woman, that chaste woman. She served a prostitute...

Guest (1): To make them correct.

Prabhupāda: No. Serve prostitute for serving her husband. That is a big story.

Guest (2): Big story, yes.

Prabhupāda: Lakṣa-hīra.

Guest (1): Lakṣa-hīra. Yes.

Prabhupāda: You know that, Lakṣa-hīra.

Guest (1): And husband was a...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): And he requested his Lakṣa-hīra that "I want to go one night to the..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, to the prostitute and her pay, her fee, was lakṣa-hīra, one hundred thousand pieces of diamond. You see.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (1): And he requested his Lakṣa-hīra that "I want to go one night to the..."

Prabhupāda: Yes, to the prostitute and her pay, her fee, was lakṣa-hīra, one hundred thousand pieces of diamond. You see.

Guest (1): Yes. I know that, that story.

Prabhupāda: So for the satisfaction of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we sometimes do that. But we collect money from them not for our sense gratification, but constructing this temple.

Guest (1): For the general public and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): ...country and...

Prabhupāda: And unless we have got temple like this, nobody would come. If I sit down here, "Bhaktivedanta Swami is sitting here," nobody will come. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa knows. He has imitated Kṛṣṇa's plan. Kṛṣṇa has made so many birds. So you cannot make any other size. That is the version of the Vedānta. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The original idea is from Kṛṣṇa. You simply, you can imitate. That's all. Just like there are so many imitation birds. Similarly, everything is imitation. Everything is imitation.

Dr. Patel: Yes. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavata you get so many stories wherein all of devas and kinnaras, they come in their own planes and stand there with the planes. How could they stand with their planes down there?

Prabhupāda: That is much improved. This is not so much improved.

Dr. Patel: And in good old days when the planes were not in existence, the westerners thought that we were all fairy stories.

Prabhupāda: That we are also thinking, "There is no Kṛṣṇa. There is no background." We are also thinking. (chuckles) Although we are big, big leaders, we are simply imitators of the westerners. That's all. Western people are our father and mother. That is our modern Indian... Now, western people are drinking wine. Now the government is drinking. Gandhi stopped it, but "No, the western people do."

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: The Americans rascals are going there.

Prabhupāda: No, many other rascals are going also. And Indian rascals are supporting that, "Oh, now science is so advanced. Now there is no question of this Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have to go to the moon planet."

Dr. Patel: That, that... I told you that story? Those astronauts who have gone on... (break) I have read it.

Prabhupāda: The astronautics...

Chandobhai: It is so said like that. The astronauts, they were all talking of philosophy only and nothing else, after coming from Moon.

Prabhupāda: The astronautics... That Russian... Even Nehru went to receive. Just see, such a rascal minister we have. An astronaut is to be received. (break)

Dr. Patel: All astronauts...

Prabhupāda: ...he was received by Nehru? Eh?

Dr. Patel: Might have. All astronauts, they have got no sex desire. All of them. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...still asiddha... So do you mean to say by avoiding sex life one becomes siddha?

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: When He had this rāsa dance, he was only seven years.

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, actually, He had sixteen thousand wives when He was in Dvaraka, but these rascals say, "Rural boy." "Rural boy" means when He was in Vṛndāvana. So he does not know even the history, and he is trying to write about Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. And that is the proof. Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God, because you cannot maintain even one wife at the present moment. So He maintained sixteen thousand wives. That is the proof that He is God. That is the proof. But they will not take that side. They will take in other way, "Oh, this is all stories and fictitious." That's all. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto (BG 9.11). They do not know. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and they try to write upon Kṛṣṇa, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa was an avatāra. Therefore I am also avatāra." These things are not very good.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "Within the prison, shackled in iron chains, Vasudeva and Devakī gave birth to a male child year after year. Kaṁsa, thinking each of the babies to be the incarnation of Viṣṇu, killed them one after another."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He killed his brother. He was merciful upon the father only, kept him in the prison. Otherwise he killed the whole family—brother, brother's son and everyone. (break) ...present kings, such incidences are very many in the history, killing everyone. There is another story that Pana, Pana?

Yaśomatīnandana: Panavada.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. The child was to be killed and the...

Yaśomatīnandana: Sarvan sevya.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. The maidservant, she changed her own son and kept the real royal family, defended him. Her child was killed.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is it a true story?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not? (break) ...and maternal uncle of Rāvaṇa.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And you have not seen so many things. Does it mean that does not exist? You are researching. You have not seen. As a scientist...

Indian man (1): I have heard lots of ghost stories, but...

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not stories. We are hearing from Bhāgavata. It is authority. We are not hearing the stories of a third-class man. We are hearing from Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva...

Indian man (1): But you see, up till now, in my long life of eighty years...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you have not so many experiences. That does not mean these things does not exist. Your experience is not all in all. Don't think like that. So these are existing actually. That is the defect, that you do not accept the authorities. That is the defect. Here Vyāsadeva is describing, who is called Vedavyāsa, full of all knowledge, and Bhāgavata is a mature experience. We are hearing from him. Why you should not believe? I may not have experience. This ghost means the living entity is subtle life without any material body. That is ghost. When one is very sinful, he does not get the material body. He lives in the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. That is ghostly life. And they display. Because they have no body, one cannot see, but they display so many mischiefs. That is ghostly life. (break) Seeing or not seeing doesn't matter. Therefore it is enjoined in the Vedānta-sūtra, śāstra cakṣuṣā.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Satsvarūpa: "You are calling us animals?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering. Why you have caught me? What right you have got to punish me? Because we are the same. You are doing in a larger scale, I am doing in a small scale. That is the difference." So he was set free, "Yes." Alexander the Great, he was sensible man, "Yes, what I am doing? The same thing in a bigger scale that's all." So these rascal, actually, they are animals, but they are declaring advancement. What advancement? The same thing: eating, sleeping, sex and defending. That is animal... The dogs also do like that. They also eat, they also sleep, they have sex life. Now they are coming to the dog's life. A dog, just like street, they have sex life. They are coming, advance. This is advancement, that "We have become now pure dog. So long it was hidden, now we are open." This is the civilization, animal civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: And... Why Calcutta? You go to the airport. You will find so nice gardens, still existing. Now it is spoiled also. Because people have changed locally to the city. Nobody has to take care now. Otherwise, in Bengal especially, throughout the whole India, Bengal was so beautiful. The Europeans became attracted by the beauty of Bengal. Therefore they made Calcutta their capital, the Britishers. Yes. Every European liked Bengal. Every European. I met one European German gentleman in Bombay. He was in Calcutta. When I was in Bimha (?). So I asked, "Why you left Calcutta?" "Oh, I am very sorry. Calcutta was so nice." And actually. Where we have got our temple, these quarters were known as "Sahib" quarter. Just like our temple is "Sahib" temple. So these Chowringee and Camac Street, Park, these were all European. They liked very much to live in Bengal. And there is another story. One English officer he became attracted by the beauty of a Bengali woman. There is story by Bankima Candra. Candrashekhara. The man was after that woman, how to get it. That is the subject matter of story. He was attracted by the black eyes and black hair. Bengali beauty.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: This is a man's story, if I may mention in this connection. Rūpānuga Mahārāja, one of our students, before joining the movement was a social worker. And he told me once a story about a particular case of a woman who was in a very destitute position. Her husband was in the hospital, she had five children, and one was... So many problems were there. And Rūpānuga was going and giving her her weekly money from the government, welfare check. And one day he came unexpectedly because part of his job was to see how they were using the money. And he found her there in her apartment with a strange man and drugs and alcohol on the floors and the children running naked, and he was obliged to stop giving her the money. Simply because there had been no proper use of it, there was no point in giving it. It was not doing her any good. To improve her situation superficially wasn't improving the situation at all.

Prabhupāda: You understand that?

C. Hennis: Yes. Well, of course it's only by a long term of general program of cultural improvement that you can hope to overcome that kind of problem. On the other hand, it would be, I think, wrong to argue from that experience that the provision of welfare benefits to all people who are destitute should be stopped, you see. It is true that...

Prabhupāda: No, we don't want to say that.

C. Hennis: It's true these are abused, but the fact that a good thing is abused doesn't turn it into a bad thing.

Prabhupāda: No that is not the point. Point is that everyone should be guided by the brain. Therefore the brain must be maintained. That is our point.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: But you are not animal. Animals among... The tiger, he is destined to eat meat. But you are not animal. You are human being. Why should you eat? Why you should imitate an animal? Then why there is religion?

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: (translates) There's a story. Someone asked Lord Jesus to describe how we should love all people. Describe... Just like a man who has one hundred sheep and there is one of them who has gone astray, he is lost, so the man leaves aside all of his other hundred sheep to go looking for that one sheep. So in the same way, he says, we must take care of the people who are suffering. The minority, those who are suffering, they must receive food, they must be given help and fed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you should kill animal?

Young Swiss Man (3): At the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: And Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." Why you are killing? From the very beginning disobedience. How you can become Christian?

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is there any meaning, "Oh, these are foolish children creating trouble, so I will kill them"? What is this?

Yogeśvara: There was a story in Time magazine last week. Everyone was in a big flurry about it. An airplane crashed in the Andes mountains, and they were stranded way up in the mountains for eighteen days without any food. So there were maybe fifty people on the plane and only eighteen survivors. So because there was no food they ate the bodies. They ate the dead bodies to survive. Then, eighteen days later they were saved. A plane came and picked them up and brought them back. So people are very, very much excited, "Oh, what is this amazing occurrence, that they ate human flesh?" But every day they are eating...

Prabhupāda: Cow's flesh. When it was?

Yogeśvara: This was about... Now it is almost a month ago, one month ago.

Prabhupāda: Where it was?

Yogeśvara: In the Andes mountains?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: High in the mountains.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: High in the mountains there was a plane that crashed.

Nitāi: South America.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And the bodies were already dead. And there were certain people that they knew their bodies, his fiance or his sister. They agreed that if they were going to eat the bodies they would eat them last. It's true. It was in the story. One man, he had his prospective wife. One man had his sister or sister-in-law, cousin. They said, "If we're going to eat the bodies, then we'll eat them the last." So they had a sense that this body is more important than that body, like that.

Prabhupāda: No, in last war they ate stool also.

Yogeśvara: Concentration camps.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Really? What is the Vaiṣṇava point of view?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is a Vaiṣṇava, is he willing to maintain his body for the service of Lord Kṛṣṇa even if he has to break regulative principles—if it is necessary?

Prabhupāda: If it is necessary.

Yogeśvara: What's the name of that yogi who meditated for sixty thousand years?

Nitāi: Saubhari? Viśvāmitra.

Prabhupāda: Vālmīki.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Viśvāmitra.

Yogeśvara: He also had to eat dog, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: There's a story about that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Viśvāmitra. How they exist in that open, and there was snow. For eating they... Eighteen days?

Yogeśvara: The plane crashed. Half the people were killed. So the other people, two of them left to go find help. They went to find out some people they could telephone or something. It took them eighteen days to find a house. So the other people, they all stayed close together inside the airplanes. They put on blankets and their coats. But there was no... They could not go outside. There was no food.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They had... At first they had little chocolate and they rationed it out that "You get a little bit of chocolate," and little bit of liquid they had. And so they rationed it out until that was finished. Then they took a vote amongst themselves. "Well, what shall we do? Shall we eat human flesh or shall we simply starve to death?" So they voted amongst themselves that "Yes, we should do this." There were some men, one or two, that would not do it and they died. They refused to do it, and they died. Others, they did.

Yogeśvara: They made some... Afterwards they had to... There was some discussion, some philosophy. They were actually discussing. And there was one person there who was explaining to the others that "We must eat this flesh to stay alive but it's not so wrong since the soul has left the body." He said, "The spirit has left these bodies, so you shouldn't consider it to be quite so bad. We're obliged to do this."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not unreasonable. It was a question of selection. Otherwise, to subsist, to eat the dead bodies, flesh, that is not very abominable. That can be accepted. But it is the selection whether one will eat. That is another thing. Otherwise dead body's flesh is as good as anything else because it is matter.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Priest: And it's the main... (indistinct) center of Maharastra.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Pāṇḍarapura.

Priest: When I went to India twenty-five years ago, I first studied for four years at this pilgrimage.

Prabhupāda: What was your subject matter studying?

Priest: I was studying for a thesis, a doctorate thesis, this pilgrimage, the story of the pilgrimage and everything of the brāhmaṇa pilgrimage. And as you know, it was one of the main bhakti tradition in Maharastra, Orissa, Jñāneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Tukārāma, Tukārāma.

Priest: Tukārāma.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Priest: I have proceeded to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Tukārāma is in the line of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Priest: That's right.

Prabhupāda: He was initiated by Caitanya. His avanga, avanga, that is written there, he was initiated by Caitanya.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, if one chants Allah or Jesus Christ, we have no objection. We don't say that you stop it. We say that you chant the holy name of God. If that name is of God, you chant.

Yogeśvara: Yesterday, Srila Prabhupāda, you gave the story, I think you said it was from the Padma Purāṇa, about a Muslim who was attacked by a wild boar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: He was attacked by a wild boar, and the boars for the Muslims are untouchable. So he was saying haram, haram, which means untouchable. And he was killed by that boar, but it was taken by higher authority that he was chanting "ha rāma," which means "where is Lord Rāma," so he derived liberation. Even unconsciously he was chanting and derived liberation.

Prabhupāda: Although he did not mean Rāma, he condemned the boar as haram, condemned. But the...

Priest: Same story is said in the bhakti tradition of Maharastra of the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Yes, may be the same story.

Priest: Untouchable hunter who was chased by a boar and went to a tree, and then... It is a common story.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we are recommending "Chant the holy name of God." (end)

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: They kill the cow, which is a mother, and then sometimes they get, when their mother kills them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mother becomes child and child becomes mother. That's all. Have you got transcription of the vyādha story?

Nitāi: The...?

Prabhupāda: Vyādha. The hunter, hunter story, recited by Caitanya Mahāprabhu?

Nitāi: Which...?

Prabhupāda: This twenty-fourth chapter, Madhya-līlā.

Nitāi: No, I don't think it's typed yet.

Prabhupāda: What you have typed? Bring. That is Nārada's instruction, how by killing, one becomes killed. That is there.

Yogeśvara: Oh, Mṛgāri, the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Mṛgāri.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you... Mām... This meaning, the flesh, is Sanskrit word is māṁsa. Mām. Mām means "me." And sa means "he." "I am killing this animal. I am eating. And he'll kill me and eat." This word is reminding that "You are killing this animal, and eating. So this animal will kill you and eat you." This is the meaning of māṁ sa. Māṁ sa khādati iti māṁsa. "He'll be given the opportunity to kill you." And when the animal is sacrificed before the goddess Kālī, this mantra is cited to the ear of the animal that "You are giving your life before goddess Kālī. So next life you are getting the chance of human being." So he's promoted. Because he is being killed before the deity, goddess Kālī, so he is elevated, and he's given the chance that "This man will become animal, and you'll kill him." So after understanding this mantra, who will be ready to kill another animal? This is the mantra. While sacrificing an animal, this is the mantra. The priest will say in the ear that "You, Mr. Goat, you are being killed before this goddess of Kālī. So your benediction is that you have to undergo so many lives before coming to the human form of life, but because you are sacrificing, as a reward for this, you get immediately human life." So he's not loser. "And this man who is killing you, he'll become a goat like you, and you have the right to kill him." This is mantra.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Māṁ sa.

Prabhupāda: Māṁ sa. Māṁ sa khādati iti māṁsa.

Nitāi: That story begins on verse 220, and I only have up to 121 here. This is the most recent tape. She's probably typing it... She'll type it today or tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: There these things are discussed.

Yogeśvara: The story of Mṛgāri and...?

Prabhupāda: In connection with that, I have discussed the animal killing. So all these meat-eaters, they are responsible for killing the innocent cows.

Bhagavān: Many people today are discussing this topic of reincarnation, but they don't understand the significance of the effects...

Prabhupāda: How they'll understand, all dull-headed fools, rascals? Dressed like gentlemen, that's all. Tāvat ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. A rascal fool is decorated so long, as long he does not speak. As long he'll speak, his nature will be revealed, what is he. This gentleman therefore did not stay long to expose himself. (laughter)

Car Conversation on the way to Chateau -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I requested that "You are one of the important men. Why don't you agree? Close the slaughterhouse. If you want to eat meat, take it when the cow is dead. We shall supply you?" What is their objection? What is the possible objection?

Bhagavān: Objection is that the people have become so impatient for sense gratification, they have no patience anymore. They can't wait... There was some story. In the United States, there has been this trouble with petrol, and... All over the world, there's been this trouble with petrol, gasoline. So there was rationing. That means people could only get a little gas. So the cars would line up for a great distance in the gas station, and they'd wait for a long time. And sometimes the gas station would run out of gas. And the people would get so angry that they killed the gas station attendant. (break) ...does not teach anyone to be austere or patient.

Prabhupāda: But human life is meant for austere and patience. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). Austerity, penance, that is human life. Otherwise, it is animal life. Simply animal civilization. It is not human civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (car is in gas station, conversation in car about how much gas to get, etc.) (break) ...progressing, they stand their own position, as they are made by nature. Therefore there is no criminality. They are under full control of nature. We are also under full control of nature, but we have been given little concession: to cultivate spiritual knowledge. So that intelligence, extra intelligence, what we have got, instead of cultivating spiritual knowledge, we are using in the same process of sense gratification like the animals. And this, this business, this, means animalistic business in a polished way, is going on as civilization. Actually, it is animalistic. But it is little decorated or polished, and they have accepted, "This is civilization." In other words, they do not know what is human civilization. They do not know. They're animals. They do not know. Hare Kṛṣṇa... (about getting gas:) For this service, they do charge anything? No.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then? Your all acquisition is decoration of the dead body. That is a verse, aprāṇasya hi dehasya mandanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Loka-rañjanam. You can get some rascal and fool, some applause, "Oh, you are so nice. You are decorating dead body." But intelligent man will say "What a fool he is that he's decorating a dead body. That's all."

Yogeśvara: It's like the story of the emperor's new clothes.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: There's a story about an emperor who commissioned a tailor to make some clothes for him. So the commissioner, the tailor, outsmarted him and told the king, "I have made you invisible clothes."

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs)

Yogeśvara: So the king said, "Oh, how wonderful. I'm the only person with such clothes." So he wore the invisible clothes and went out in public. And because he was the king, everyone was saying, "Oh, just see how beautiful clothes he has." But then one simple person said: "Why is the king walking naked?"

Prabhupāda: So a simple person is more intelligent than the so-called sophisticated citizens. Decorating the dead body. I think in my Back to Godhead I wrote this article.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In the court?

Devotee: Yes. Because, you knew about the Watergate case. He was caught...

Yogeśvara: Prabhupāda knows the story. He knows the incident. He was found innocent by who? By court?

Devotee: Yes, by the whole government. He had done some cheating and campaign making secret tape recordings against the other party.

Prabhupāda: He did? And still he is innocent?

Devotee: Yes. He paid so many millions, thousands and thousands of dollars. His party, the republican party, they put microphones and everything in the convention of the democrats and had spies and everything in order that he could find out their tricks. He had paid all these men and there were all fired.

Prabhupāda: So that is not bad because in politics you have to do that. Everyone does so. What is Nixon's fault?

Devotee: But only he got caught. And all of his men quit.

Prabhupāda: No, no, suppose you are my rival. So I wanted to know your secrecies. So I make some mechanical arrangement. That is not fault. That is not... Everyone does so. Why do you expect that he will not do that? He must do that. If you are my rival or enemy, to know your secrecy, I must endeavor to do everything. As you are doing, so I am.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: And also when Karṇa... Arjuna killed Karṇa when he was off his chariot.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is, "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." Better you keep yourself ideal character that people can see that "Here is an ideal group of men." Otherwise, in politics... They are feeling the necessity of an honest leader, but they are themself dishonest, they people. So when you point out that "This leader is dishonest," they do not very much appreciate. There is a story in this connection I will tell you, that one man was drunkard. So his friend said, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go to hell." In this way, all the family members, they scrutinizingly studying, that all of them were drunkards. You see? Then the man who was accused of drinking, he said, "If everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. (laughter) Because my father is going there, mother is going there, my brother is going there, I shall go there. It is heaven. Where is hell?"

Devotee: Heaven is where all my friends are.

Prabhupāda: So this is the position. As soon as you point out, "This man is dishonest," and you scrutinize, everyone is dishonest, then where is dishonesty? It is all honesty. Because if the whole business is dishonesty, so there is no question of honesty? Let it go on. That is the public opinion. Why one should be unnecessarily honest? If the whole world is dishonest, and the dishonest world is going on, then where is the harm? What is the use of becoming... The same thing: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss."

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, everyone knows he is mother and he is father.

Devotee: Yeah, right. And they don't think... There is no question of sex. When they think of mother and father, they don't think of these things. Also with Ramakrishna. He also had his divine mother. You told us a story in Calcutta that he was very debauched. In a village he used to chase the young women. And his brother actually made him famous.

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to, not to be victimized by woman. It is very difficult.

Yogeśvara: Unless you are victimized by Kṛṣṇa first.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who is, I means, what is called, captivated by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa, then he is not victimized.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Kumbhaka. So this is practiced by the frogs also. So if you get success, you get success like the frog.

Lady (2): (French)

Yogeśvara: Shall I tell them that story about the frog?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: That means the frog was buried at least for 10,000 years.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: Read the last paragraph of the yoga system: yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā.

Morning Walk -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: How can we accept it?

Prabhupāda: (laughing) How they have made easy life, that see. They are... There is a story that a boy went for examination. So when he came back, his father asked, "My dear boy, how you have written your question paper?" "Yes, very nice." "How?" "No, those questions which were very difficult, I could not answer. And the easier questions, what is to write? I know everything. (laughter) Easier questions, there is no need of writing. I know everything." Both ways he has not written anything. So these rascals, both ways they will not follow anything. And still, they will credit... Not only Christians, everywhere these people want to banish God. Simply we are canvassing "God, God, God." Otherwise nobody cares. Say about 1945, so in front of my house there was an old man. So as neighbor, we had very good talks always. So as soon as I say, "Bhagavān," he will be angry. "God." So one day he said, "Why you always say Bhagavān, God?" Just see, an old man and still he is such a rascal. He did not like. That is called demonism. Even the father of Prahlāda Mahārāja, that five years old boy, he was doing nothing harm, simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—he became angry: "No, no." So big enemy that he wanted to kill him. This is demoniac. Some bad smell?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know. (break)

Prabhupāda: There was a movement, Moral Rearmament Movement, started from America.

Haṁsadūta: What was the name of it?

Prabhupāda: MRA, MRA, Moral Rearmament Movement. Do you know, anyone of you?

Haṁsadūta: No. Do you, Satsvarūpa? No.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: As soon two, two men who are realized, there is no war. There is a very wonderful story. When the Emperor of Japan took over the leadership again after having been for six hundred years only the High Priest. Now he wanted to be again the emperor. And he was submitting one dainu (?) after the other one. Only one resisted in Tokyo. General of Tokyo did not submit to the emperor and didn't allow anybody to come in to negotiate. So the emperor was very troubled. He said, "Should I burn down Tokyo? I wouldn't like to do it." And then his young sword (?) master asked him—he was a realized man—"Do you permit me to just ride in this town and see the great general?" And he said, "Yes, you know the guards do not permit." "Let me do." He sat on horseback and just rode through. The guards, like this, let him pass. He announced himself to the great general. General said, "Yes, with him I am going to talk." And the general himself, being a self-realized man said, "Well, all right." In twenty minutes things were in order, and they submitted gently, and without a single shot, peace was established. Because two men of a high level of self-realization met.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So pure devotional service is flame. All other things are smoke. You must get the flame. Otherwise, your business will not get done. So naturally we fan when there is smoke, "Phat, phat, phat." As soon as flame comes, there is no smoke. So again fan it. Let the flame come. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise be satisfied with the smoke. You are cooking with smoke for three hundred years. (laughter) There is a very humorous story that one man... He was a yogi. So he approached. It is not story, it is fact. Approached one big man that... As people are very inquisitive to see some yogic magic, so the rich man asked the yogi, "What you have learned about yogic perfection?" "No, I can in the severe winter season, I can dip myself in the water up to this and practice yoga." "So, how long can you remain? At night?" "Yes. No, I can remain the whole night or as long as you..." "All right, if you remain within severe cold, within water, overnight, then I shall give you such and such presentation." So he agreed, and he did it. And in the morning, when the man came, so he said, "Oh, you are successful." Then he did not... Either he had no money or he did not want to give. So he had his one advisor, "So what shall I do?" "No, no sir, you cannot give money." "Why?" "Now, there was heat." "So how there was heat?" You know, in India they give ākāśa-pradīpa? During Kārttika month they... This is our Vaiṣṇava principle, I think. The lamp is there on the head of the roof. On the roof there is a bamboo, and in the top of the bamboo there is light. So this man was in the lake. And his advisor said, "You have seen that the lamp was there, and heat was coming." (laughing) That lamp was three miles away and still, he advised, "Yes, there was heat. Therefore he could tolerate." So what can be said? He is poor man. So there was another servant of that big man. So he appealed to him that "See, I took so much trouble and he did not pay me anything." "So don't worry. I shall see that you are paid." What is that? Some presentation?

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: That is false. That I am saying. This is false responsibility. Actually you cannot become responsible. You have no power. Everyone is under the laws of nature. Just like some birds flying in the sky. The father, mother, and children, but nobody is responsible for anyone. When there is danger in the sky, you cannot give protection. Suppose one bird is hit, he is falling. The father, mother, and others, they cannot give any protection. He has to become responsible for himself. Just like the aeroplane. When the one plane is in danger, no other plane come and help it. Even if you see that the other plane is flying a few yards and if it is in fire, you cannot help. There is one nice story that one hunter was hunting birds and he spread his network. So when the children of the parent birds, they become victimized by the network. So when the parents came, they saw, "Oh, my children have been caught up by the net of the hunter." So mother became very overwhelmed. She went to rescue them and she also become victimized. Then the father was intelligent, he saw that "My children, my wife, they all have been victimized, and if I foolishly go to save them, then I will be also victimized. Let me go this way." Take sannyāsa and go. No responsibility. It is not possible when everyone is captured by the laws of nature. How you can help and what is your responsibility? So this is called māyā. The children are thinking that "My father and mother will give me protection," and the father and mother is thinking that "There is my responsibility." This is called māyā. With this false responsibility, they are packed up in a home. But when death comes, nobody can help. Nobody. This is happening every day, every moment, and still we are falsely thinking I am responsible. So what is the value of your responsibility? If you cannot give protection, then what is the value of your responsibility? There is no responsibility. The only responsibility is that I have got this human form of life. Even in this life I do not realize God, then I remain cats and dogs, that's all. This is the only responsibility. If you miss this opportunity, then I do not know what I am going to become in my next life. So gaining or losing this opportunity, that is my responsibility.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): "Without envy"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. But make them devotees. That is the real father and mother, who begets children and make him devotee. That is real father and mother. Otherwise cats and dogs. A Tulasī dāsa, he has written one poetry that "A son and the urine comes from the same way." Son... Son means it is born out of the semina. That also comes through the genital, and the urine also comes through the genital. So he is giving this example that "Putra and Mutra..." Mutra, means urine, and putra means son, comes from the same passage. So if the son is a devotee, then he's putra; otherwise he's mutra. (laughter) Otherwise he's urine. Very nice. Yes. Putra and mutra come from the same channel. If he's a devotee, then he's putra, otherwise he's mutra. (break) ...miseries are compared with the heat and cold. Mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Śīta and uṣṇa. Uṣṇa means hot, and śīta means cold. They are pleasing and miserable in circumstances. Cold is very pleasing in the summer, and heat is very pleasing in winter. But same heat in summer is not pleasing, and same cold in winter, it is not pleasing. So what is the actual position of cold and heat? It is simply transforming as pleasure and pain according to circumstances. Otherwise it is neither painful, neither pleasing. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...has given me hundreds of such places but His order is "You cannot stay." (laughter) I'll tell you one humorous story in this connection. It is a little long. I don't wish to divert your attention. Very interesting story. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad..., aniketa. One may have many nice places to live; still, he should think that "I have no place to live." That is one of the spiritual items.

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Haṁsadūta: What is that story, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Eh? (laughter) Story is that there was a joker—His name was Gopal Bahn—of a king, Rāja Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇanagar, you know? Near Māyāpur? Yes, the king of that place. So they used to keep joker to please them by words. So the joker was constructing a new building. So it is almost finished, but there was no opening ceremony. So Rāja advised his, one of his another friends, that "If you can go and pass urine in that new house of Gopal—the joker's name-before the opening ceremony, then I'll give you so much prize. Go and pass urine there." (chuckles) So, "Yes, I'll do it." So... No, "Pass stool." Yes. "Go and pass stool there. Then I'll give you so much advance." So one day he made this plan. He was passing, and all of a sudden entered: "Gopal, I am very much called by nature. Kindly show me where I shall pass stool. Where I shall pass?" So Gopal was intelligent, that it is, there is some plan. "Yes, yes, here is lavatory. You come here." So he is... Everything was false. So then he said, "The door must be open. You pass stool there, but I'll see that you are passing stool and door must be open." "Now, how it is possible?" "No, it is possible. You can pass stool, but you cannot pass urine. If you pass urine, then I shall kill you." Passing stool without passing urine, how it is possible? "So you have come to pass stool. That you can do here, but don't pass urine." (laughs) So that is my position. "You may have hundreds of places, but you cannot live anywhere." That is Kṛṣṇa's order. (break) ...place not to become attached.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (1): Well, it's more involved than just saying that. Sun is just a big complex of hydrogen and helium, a big pile of rubbish really, but it develops this marvelous reactions which causes it to work as a big nuclear reactor, an entirely different story, what the vision of science, of the present science, about the meaning of celestial bodies and the meaning of, in particular, of sun and moon and so on. We are extremely realistic about this world. We can't see, assuming all the glory of that what happens on the earth due to the existence of those bodies, we do not try to look inside of the structure of these things, as something meant for us. Just universe as it is... And this question, like Nietzchean question which I am repeating—that's not my point—this big question is... Western philosophy presently does not answer, does not ask this question. I think that this scientist who did ask it had quite a point. This question expresses the quest of the human race for some meaning for some sense, for some sense. That's what religion is now offering us, or philosophy, or... Rarely, directly, we hear the direct answer to that.

Prabhupāda: What is your direct answer?

Guest (1): Oh, I don't have any. If I would have, I wouldn't ask you.

Prabhupāda: That means your knowledge is insufficient.

Guest (1): Precisely. Precisely. That is the beginning of...

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if you have no answer. That's all right. That "We don't know" means our knowledge is insufficient. But knowledge means must be progressive. We should not remain in insufficient knowledge. We must make further progress to get sufficient knowledge. Inquiry.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: He changed himself religion.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that... It's some story that when Buddha was about to leave his body, he said that... Anyway, the conclusion of the story is that he also considered himself imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the greatness of Buddha. Because his followers were imperfect, he could not say more than what they could understand. Therefore he said that "I am imperfect." His mission was to stop animal killing. But people are very much accustomed to animal killing, so he did not say higher things that they could not understand. For them, if they could stop animal killing, that was perfection. For primary student, if he understands the mathematics, two plus two equal to four, that is his perfection. That does not mean there is no higher mathematics. Give them prasāda. Wait, wait. Bring it. Wait, wait little minute. (break) ...otherwise one cannot understand spiritual matter.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, Caitanya-caritāmṛta is not meant for ordinary person. Bhagavad-gītā, Īśopaniṣad and other thing...

Tripurāri: Kṛṣṇa book?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. They will read as story book. The Kṛṣṇa trilogy is selling very nice?

Tripurāri: Yes. Nectar of Devotion also.

Prabhupāda: Nectar of Devotion is very nice.

Devotee (1): And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams. They are very attracted to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Tripurāri: Many of the karmīs appreciate the Fourth Canto, part four, the story of King Purañjana. They understand that.

Devotee (2): There's many psychologists at the airport. I would attract them by giving them that particular volume and saying how this deals with the psychology of the conditioned self. And they were attracted in that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice, Purañjana. His city, his gates, various manifestation.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Devotee (1): Sometimes they want three or four or five at a time. (Prabhupāda chuckles) One boy... Cārudeṣṇa Prabhu and I were distributing to him. First he distributed one to him. Then I saw he was coming and I approached him again, the same, five minutes later. I said, "Didn't you get the story book, Kṛṣṇa book? You got the philosophy book, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now take the story book, Kṛṣṇa." And he took Kṛṣṇa book, and then Cārudeṣṇa came up and distributed two more books to him.

Prabhupāda: So when they take Kṛṣṇa trilogy they take set, three?

Tripurāri: Usually one, just one.

Prabhupāda: It is closed, this? Drafty.

Śrutakīrti: Yes, it's closed but it's drafty.

Tripurāri: (break) So when we give them big books, we also give them one Back to Godhead magazine to help them understand. We say, "Read the magazine first. Come to one of our centers when you have questions." So that way we are distributing many big books and many Back to Godhead magazines also at the same time.

Devotee (3): Sometimes we also, I know myself, ask them... We open the page, the front cover, and show 'em the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and say, "If you simply chant this mantra, you will be able to understand these books in a much higher way." Actually, it's helped.

Prabhupāda: That is fact. His heart becomes cleansed to take up.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Ether is perceived by sound, air is perceived by touch. Then... Ether, air... Then fire you can see by vision. And then next, water, you can taste, and the earth you can smell. These five senses are there to appreciate these five kinds of elements. All right. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Devotee: These are some of my friends here, Prabhupāda. This is Kani Faizal(?). He is a director, theater director, and artist. He wants to do a play now from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the story of Prahlāda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good.

Devotee: This is Carlos. This is Ali. I don't know your name.

Maslud: Maslud.

Prabhupāda: So all cultural people. All cultural people.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nice. Where is Atreya?

Devotee: He's coming.

Prabhupāda: Yes. India... Formerly your country was part of India, and you belong to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Āryan? So Āryan culture was practically all over the world. Āryan culture is based on God consciousness. So amongst the Āryans there is some conception of religion, either Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, Buddhist religion, Vedic religion, based on conception of God. So according to time, country, the ways of understanding may be little different, but the aim is God consciousness. That is Āryan civilization. So God is one; God cannot be two. So the features of God or angle of vision of God may be different. So they have been summarized in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Aside:) You can come forward. One feature of God is impersonal. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spreading all over the universe. It is impersonal. But the quality of the sunshine is heat and light. The heat and light means energy. So as in the material calculation, the heat and light is the cause of all creation. Just like at the present moment there is not sufficient heat; therefore the trees have no leaves. And as soon as there will be little more heat they will be all green. So you can take it that the creation of the foliage is due to the heat. Similarly light. So heat and light is the cause of all this material creation. And heat and light is coming from the sunshine, er, sun. Therefore heat becomes the origin of creation even in this material world. Similarly, there is another light. That is the original light. This is reflection.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: ...you take away money for serving daridra-nārāyaṇa. When you go to India, we see all daridra-nārāyaṇas are lying down on the footpath. What do you do with this money? Swami Nikhilānanda personally told me that they now enquire.

Acyutānanda: He died there last year.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, here is another skyscraper?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Multi-stories.

Guru-kṛpa: I think in India they're only fogscraper. They are not very high.

Prabhupāda: Oh, fog?

Guru-kṛpa: Fogscraper, not very high.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Had there been any real king, he would have been killed immediately. Because there is no king, therefore in South India, they are insulting the statue of Lord Rāmacandra, because there is no king. Everyone is king. Diplomacy... Democracy. What is this nonsense, democracy? All over the world the royalty is hereditary, never elected. (break) ...and it was hereditary, even Russia. That is the system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). And evaṁ paramparā-prāptam—who? Rājarṣayoḥ. They are king, but just like saintly persons. That is king, not a loafer class is elevated to the royal post. Rājarṣayoḥ. Although they're holding the post of a king for administration, they're just like ṛṣi. That is king.

Pañcadraviḍa: In France they went to the Queen a long time ago, and they said, "The people don't have bread." So she said, "Let them eat cake." And they did not like this. So...

Prabhupāda: These are all stories. Don't indulge in stories. Just try to find out the real fact from śāstra. Therefore śāstra... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). Leaving aside the śāstra, if one talks nonsense... (end)

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: This story...

Prabhupāda: Now, another question, that we say that God's name and God-all-powerful. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā: "In the name of God, all God's potencies are there." So have you got any name like that? That means if you chant that name, you get immediately contact with God.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: That idea is put forth in the Psalms repeatedly. It says, "Sing the names of the Lord with high-sounding cymbals, with drums." It says in one place that "The name of the Lord is exalted even beyond heaven."

Trivikrama: "Hallowed by Thy name." There's a prayer.

Prabhupāda: That... What is that name?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: They don't... The Christians... It says, "Sing the name of God," but they don't do that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But if you have to chant name... Just like we prescribe, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," so what is the name they recommend to chant?

Prajāpati: Adonai.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: Adonai.

Acyutānanda: "Adonai" is a... It's an apostrophe.

Prajāpati: But that's the name that was chanted. Adonai (Hebrew).

Pañcadraviḍa: No, by the Christians.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: What about Christians?

Viṣṇujana: Jesus, Jehovah. They say Jesus is the name.

Prabhupāda: Adonai, whose name it is?

Pañcadraviḍa: Jewish.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Rāmeśvara: So for colonialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book—"Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.

Madhudviṣa: Is that where that name came from, "Uncle Sam"?

Prabhupāda: Uncle Sam is the American word?

Trivikrama: Yes, yes.

Pañcadraviḍa: No.

Prabhupāda: And he described the American life in so, mean, badly.

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, nature is instrumental, just like jail is instrument. But the proprietor of the jail, conductor of the jail, is government. Jail is not acting independently. By the government's direction. Similarly, the nature is working by the direction of God. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated. Nature is not independent. Just like the nature is that this lump of matter will lie down here, but if God desires, it can fly on the sky. That is God's will. Nature is not independent. Then it would have remained here. Just like Lord Rāmacandra collected stones, and it was floating. According to law of gravitation, how it can float?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say that's just a story.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: They say that's...

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The planets are floating.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. How these planets are floating? That is also story? (laughter)

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (2): Is there any instance when you were chastised by your spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Devotee (2): Can you tell us?

Prabhupāda: I remember the moment was very valuable. Yes.

Devotee (2): Can you tell us the story?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think I have said that.

Satsvarūpa: When you were speaking to one man...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He became very angry and chastised me.

Jagajīvana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, was this during a lecture by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jagajīvana: Was this during a lecture?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was not... One of my old brother, he, he wanted to speak something. So I leaned my... I immediately became... (laughter) So he chastised him more than me.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1975, Mayapur:

Satsvarūpa: Who Balarāma killed?

Prabhupāda: No, another. Lomarṣa, Lomarṣa Muni. He would die when all the hairs on the body will fall down. And each hair will fall down after the death of one Brahmā. So he was chanting on the sea, and Nārada Muni was passing: "Why don't you make a cottage?" "How long I shall live? What is the use of cottage?" He's also thinking: "I'll die."

Satsvarūpa: There's also the story of that Mahārāja Khāṭvaṅga, who found out that he only had a minute to live. What did he do, that he...? You say that he surrendered at once.

Prabhupāda: He surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Hmmm. Go this...

Devotee: Prabhupāda, if we, if we increase our devotional activities, then we automatically become satisfied, and then detached from material life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (end)

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) But it is a fact formerly people were taller. We have seen. In our childhood we have seen, when European, they were very tall.

Devotee: They were taller and they lived longer.

Devotee (2): That story about King Mucukunda when he was sleeping in the cave and he came out of the cave and looked outside and he said, "Oh, it must be Kali-yuga." because the trees were smaller and...

Prabhupāda: Do you (indistinct) ...the mango trees now? Some of the trees (indistinct), the lemon tree, stunted. In Japan they grow many trees.

Devotee: In Japan they cultivate trees to be like that, very small. They have little orange trees. Orange trees are this big, orange trees.

Prabhupāda: They are also becoming oranges. Japanese enjoy.

Haṁsadūta: The Japanese and Chinese are very, very small.

Prabhupāda: Did it...? (break) ...special. There is a proverb, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman kalki chele busi... (?) A brāhmaṇa, black... Brāhmaṇa's another name is śukla, white. So as soon as a brāhmaṇa is black then he's (indistinct) kalo brāhmaṇa. Kota śūdra, and śūdra, just like African, if they become white there is something mystery. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, Mohammedan, because Mohammedan means the Afghans, they are very tall, so a Mussulman is dwarf, a brāhmaṇa is black, the śūdra is white, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman and kalki chelo, that means the bastard and (indistinct) ...these are all of the same class. Adopted son, he gets money, without any labor, he spends like anything. In your country there is adopted son?

Devotee: Yeah, yeah.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: ...Madhusūdana because He killed the demon Madhu. But who was that Madhu?

Prabhupāda: A demon, it is said.

Paramahaṁsa: But I don't think we've heard that story before.

Prabhupāda: In the beginning, when Brahmā was created, one demon, Madhu, came to swallow him. And Kṛṣṇa killed him. Madhu-Kaitava, two brothers, Madhu and Kaitava.

Paramahaṁsa: He came to swallow Brahmā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: So he was one of the first demons killed.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: May we ask questions about pronouncing the Sanskrit?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: When the a-h with the dot is in the middle of the verse should it always be pronounced clearly, a-ha. Adhi-yajña-ha, or is it more like adhi-yajña.

Prabhupāda: That is stated there. In the verse what it is?

Amogha: Adhi-yaj... Well, it depends on whether I pronounce it right. (laughs) But it is spelled, a-d-h-i-y-a-j-n-a-h with a dot underneath. So...

Prabhupāda: Adhi-yajña. When we divide the word, then the first noun form is used. Sanskrit grammar is very difficult. It requires twelve years to learn simply Sanskrit grammar. So, that is not possible. So whatever is there, you understand that. Sanskrit grammar is very, very difficult. At least twelve years it requires. And if you understand Sanskrit grammar, then you can read all the Vedic literature without any translation. Simply by studying. Therefore the Sanskrit scholars are first of all taught grammar. And when one is expert in reading grammar properly, then all Vedic literature becomes very simplified.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you must eat. But when good things are available, why should you eat bad things? You must be pacified.

Amogha: Was there a story? The Hindus always tell this story about I think Viśvāmitra Ṛṣi eating a dog or something?

Prabhupāda: Sometimes. There was no food.

Amogha: They like that story. What about in the Buddhist philosophy; we understand that...

Prabhupāda: No killing.

Paramahaṁsa: ...in the higher stage...

Prabhupāda: No killing.

Amogha: Yes, but the Buddhist monks, when they beg, they simply accept whatever alms they receive, and if they receive meat then they'll eat that, and if they receive some raw grains then they eat that. Actually that is a higher state of renunciation.

Paramahaṁsa: And if they receive some cigarettes they'll smoke them.

Amogha: Yes, and if they receive-they'll take anything, they are so renounced. So isn't that more spiritual?

Prabhupāda: They have no idea what is spiritual. Buddhist religion is not a spiritual. It is material. If you kill me then I feel pain; therefore I shall not kill you. This is.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: If the operator of the powerhouse, he is operating and running the powerhouse, but it's not really necessary that we go and see him. We can simply enjoy the facilities offered by the powerhouse.

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum—he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull—just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life—these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Amogha: Yes. He can remain there. (pause)

Prabhupāda: The case is... Who is the complainer?

Amogha: Well, originally... The story is something that the father started the whole movement, and then he died.

Prabhupāda: He was a great cheat.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, chief cheat.

Amogha: Yes. And his wife cheater, she wanted to carry it on and her eldest son was named God, or the leader. And..., but she thought that this Guru Maharaj-ji was better, more appealing to the people. So she changed and said, "He can be the leader." Then he started the Western movement. And then he began... She noticed that he was becoming playboy instead of God. And so she began the trouble in India, and she claimed that he was no longer suitable because he was eating meat and intoxication and becoming a playboy, all these things. Dancing. So she started the trouble in India, and she wants to reinstate the elder brother as the leader and take away the younger one, Guru Maharaj-ji. So that's how the trouble started.

Prabhupāda: So that her business may go on.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: First of all she tried the youngest son. When he is failure, now replace him.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Practically speaking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are giving us the essence of all the previous ācāryas' books in your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) "No, no, Jesus Christ is son of God. He was... (break) If you don't worship him, you will go to hell." So they enquired, "What is that hell?" He began to... "It is very dark and moist and so on, so on..." They did not reply because they are working in the mine. So this is the position. This is the position. People are kept in so much darkness, they do not know what is hell, what is heaven, what is God, what is misery. They do not mind. They are accustomed to all these things. There is another story like that, a Bengali story. One man said, "Oh, you are drinking, you will go to hell." So he explained what is hell: "It is a miserable life." "My father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "And my mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go." In this way whole, the family. "Then where it is hell? It is heaven. Because the father is there, mother is there, brother is there. Everyone, we are going... So where is hell?" This is the... "Even in hell, if we are all there, then where it is hell? It is heaven."

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: We preach that way so that other people will be happy knowing everything is all right. Now they're thinking everything is not all right, so they're in anxiety.

Prabhupāda: There is a story. One man has written book how to tend cows. "Cows tending, cows tending, cows tending." So one old man calling, "What book you are selling?" "How to tend the cows." "So you better take this book to your mother. She will learn how to tend you." Cows tending everyone knows, and he has written a book. "So better... You are a rascal cow. Give it to your mother, and she will tend you, learn." It is like that. If everything is all right, somebody is taking, "This is pleasure," somebody..., then what is the use of writing book? Everything is all right. They may select whatever they like. Oh, why you are becoming a big preacher? Let them accept whatever they like.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Perhaps they used sand also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: The Greeks say that they built their buildings... They hired some very big men called cyclopses, big giants. And they came and built all the buildings.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And such stories are in Mahābhārata also. The demons were engaged, giants and demons, for construction. Yes. And they were very good artist, how to do it. Now we employ the first-class men, so-called first-class engineering, but they were meant for the demons and giants. Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, that explains how they built such fantastic temples and palaces.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: Some people say, "Why don't we see any giants any more today?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Africa, there were many giants, very high, very strong.

Devotee (1):. Where is that?

Paramahaṁsa: In Africa some of the natives, very big, eight feet tall.

Prabhupāda: Very tall.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Didn't one demon construct a big parliament house for Kṛṣṇa? That demon Māyā? For King Yudhiṣṭhira?

Prabhupāda: Umm.

Amogha: Aṣṭa-siddhi dāsa, when he came back from Fiji he told us a story that the local people say that Kāliya snake, after he ran away, he lives in Fiji in a big lake.

Devotee (1): On top of a mountain.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was driven away from Vṛndāvana. (pause) They are all going to the downtown?

Devotee (1): Yes. To the factory areas also, in Fremantle.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is the factory area?

Devotee (1): About ten miles down the coast. They have very big factories, very bad pollution. Big factories down south, in one place called Fremantle. It's a little way down.

Prabhupāda: Three miles?

Devotee (1): Ten.

Prabhupāda: Ten miles. How long it will take to go and come?

Amogha: To the factory?

Prabhupāda: No, that area.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee: This man, he was of a very ripe age, and still he was saying that...

Prabhupāda: Yes, the ripe age, up to the point of death one is sexually inclined. Up to the point of death. There was a minister of Agwar(?). I have told you this story? Yes. At the point of death he was looking to the young girl. That is natural. Unless one is trained up, that is natural. That is māyā's entrapping machine to keep the living entity within this material world.

Śrutakīrti: Sometimes the youth, when we offer them Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "When I get older I won't be so attached to this enjoyment, so then I can take it up."

Prabhupāda: They generally think so, but that is not possible.

Śrutakīrti: That is not the fact.

Prabhupāda: In Paris very, very old men, seventy-five years, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub, paying $50 entrance fee, then they spend money for woman, wine. And few hours they stay there and come back. They are all old men. It is very difficult job, but still by Kṛṣṇa's grace you are accepting this principle. That is great mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is very, very difficult. One old man, I told you that Marquis of Zetland? In London? So he proposed one of my Godbrothers went, "Can you make me brāhmaṇa?" "Oh, yes. You give up this habit." "Oh, that is impossible. That is impossible. This is our life." So in the Western countries that is the life, to have illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, and gambling. There are organized clubs, brothels, hotels, only for this. People are accepting this principle, young boys like you, it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy on us. Otherwise it is impossible.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 3: It's a funny story. There's a funny follow up to that one, and that is that the flowers were taken from two men that ran nurseries. And we had to go through an appeal finally to get heard. But just before the appeal came off the boys needed a glass house because of their special plants, which you've got outside here.

Śrutakīrti: Tulasī.

Guest 3: And they didn't know anything about glass houses. So they were driving around and one said, "Well, let's go and find out something about glass houses. Oh, there's a nice nursery." (laughter) So the car drives up, you see. The devotee comes out, and he said, "Excuse me, sir, but we're interested in glass houses." He said, "Will you please get out of my land?" The same nursery. (laughter) There were two hundred nurseries around the area. He picked that particular one.

Prabhupāda: But if people would have been God conscious, they would have excused, "Oh, they have come for God's service. All right, you can take." Therefore the first business is to make people God conscious. Then everything is adjusted. Yasyāsti bhaktiḥ, there is a verse in Bhāgavata,

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā
sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ
harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ
(SB 5.18.12)

The meaning is that "Anyone who is God conscious, a devotee, he has got all the good qualities". What we consider as good qualities, he has got. And similarly, one who is not a devotee of God, he has no good qualities because he will hover on the mental platform. There are different platform: bodily concept of life, general, "I am this body. Therefore my business is to satisfy the senses." This is bodily concept of life. And others, they are thinking, "I am not this body. I am mind." So they are going on mental speculation like philosophers, thoughtful men.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: You can't substitute.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. He must be at the same time... Although he is hero, he must be generous. Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story. He arrested one thief. So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander, the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me? You are a great thief. I am a small thief." (laughter) So Alexander understood it and got him released, "Yes." (laughter) This is generosity. He must agree to the principle.

Guest 1: Well, there's another one, the battle. You know the big battle where the opposition, what was his name, was on the ground, and he said, "You won't..."

Guest 3: ...won't live.

Guest 1: It's an Indian.

Madhudviṣa: We brought back Wally one picture from India on the battle of Kurukṣetra of Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu's head was there, and Karṇa was on the ground with his chariot, and Arjuna was about to kill him, and Kṛṣṇa was directing him to kill. So I told Wally the story that when Abhimanyu was surrounded by the mahārathīs, there was no mercy then, so now Karṇa was objecting that...

Prabhupāda: Injustice.

Madhudviṣa: ...he cannot shoot a man if he gets off his chariot. And Kṛṣṇa said, "There was no mercy with Abhimanyu, so therefore there will be no mercy now."

Prabhupāda: Tit for tat. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am very happy. This house is quite suitable for our purpose.

Guest 1: They looked very hard and for a long time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest 1: And they had a lot of difficulty. This is one of the things that I imagine, you know, the story that the Catholic Church, Roman Catholic Church owned this property. And it was almost by devious means that it was acquired.

Prabhupāda: They did not want to give us?

Guest 1: He didn't want to sell direct, like that. Because that beautiful building across there, I think you saw photos...

Amogha: The convent. Śrīla Prabhupāda went through the convent.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that... There are so many inconveniences. There is no doubt about it. But he is thinking, "Now I have done this skyscraper building, it is my possession, and even though I go to hell, it will remain my possession." He does not believe next life, but he is thinking, "My generation." But if there is no next life, what is the question of generation? Who is coming to become your generation if there is no next life? Hm? "My son, my grandson will..." But who is coming to be your... Because there is no next life, everything is finished with this body, then who is coming to be your son and who is coming to be your grandson? The common sense. But they are so dull, they cannot understand.

Gurukṛpa: You once told us the story of the rich man, and he died and became a...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is also believing next life. But if they do not believe next life, then who is coming to be your son? Why you are so anxious for your son and grandson?

Bali-mardana: It is simply an accident.

Prabhupāda: So for accident you are spending so much money and energy? All contradictory. There is no even common sense. Still, they will not take the actual fact from the authoritative śāstra. (break) ...nābhijānāti. (break)

Guest (1) (Gentleman): What kind of a sect are you?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is another poor fellow. If by bluffing like this, they can continue their office, that is another thing. In our childhood we were living in a quarter: there many thieves, pickpockets. So we... After all, they were neighborhood men, so they knew us. Although we had no connection, but we knew that "These are pickpockets, gundas." And they also knew us. So I remember, now, children, one pickpocket was taking, and as soon as he saw me... (laughter) He was afraid that "This boy may tell." We have seen it. He was doing... Similarly, these rascals are pickpockets, and they are asking us, "Don't expose us. Let us do."

Gurukṛpa: You told us the story that in New York you walked in one yoga āśrama, and the man who was teaching yoga, and he told you in Hindi, "Don't reveal it. This is my... I am feeding my family by this method."

Prabhupāda: That is tanker? Oil tanker, yes. He is carrying so much oil.

Gurukṛpa: They have this type of gas now that they freeze it, and it shrinks five hundred times. And they put it in these big tanks, and they bring it across the ocean, and then when they get it to port, they again heat it up into the big tanks and it expands. So they freeze it and it becomes smaller and they can export more.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it becomes solid?

Devotee: Just like liquid oxygen, they cool it and yes, it comes to the liquid state.

Prabhupāda: There are so many living entities living within this sand, and on unfortunate moon there is no living entities. And we have to believe it. Hm? What is that?

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Devotee: That's how they got the cut now. There's a cut in the coat in the back.

Prabhupāda: This is the veriya dāsan. (break) ...taken the story from the Aesop's, no, Hitopadeśa. Laṅguli-hīna śṛgala, a jackal without tail. So this is the world. Any nonsense you do and if you say, "It is the latest fashion," everyone will do. The miniskirt. One girl made it, so all girl. The veriya not only amongst the sheeps, and the so-called animal sheeps also do that, human sheeps. (break) ...very deep there, the water? They are standing.

Bali-mardana: Their... The surf boards are sticking out of the water. They are holding on to them. But it is not very deep, about six feet. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...might be increasing? No.

Paramahaṁsa: This is a spot that has a very large crab population. Many crabs are living here, big ones.

Prabhupāda: They catch.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They say it is very good eatables.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, (Laughing) they say like that.

Prabhupāda: And crabs?

Paramahaṁsa: Clams.

Prabhupāda: Oh no? What is called?

Paramahaṁsa: Crabs and clams and lobsters...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lobster is very popular.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. When it is ripe, it is very sweet. And when it is not ripe, it is called "vegetable meat."

Devotee: "Tree goat."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prepare, it is better than meat.

Devotee (1): (break) ...the seeds.

Prabhupāda: Yes, big, big seeds. That is also very digestive. If you make it powder, it acts like, what is called, pancreas.

Bali-mardana: I think you once told a story about an Englishman who wanted to taste jackfruit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...tree, jam. It is berry, but blue.

Devotee (1): They call it java plum. It's a very... It's bitter fruit? Is it very bitter?

Prabhupāda: Not bitter. It is sour, little sour.

Siddha-svarūpa: They makes a blue stain?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got?

Siddha-svarūpa: Many here, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's very good. That is very good for diabetic patient.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then he is very nice. Then you are friend.

Dr. Gerson: Another thing I would like to do is go to Gurukula and test the children and show what NBC did was very false and unfair.

Jayatīrtha: On television they did a very bad story on Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they're, they cheater. He wants to cheat and get some money. That's all. Because the whole so-called human society is combination of cheater and cheated. So anyone who is acting without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is a cheater. And anyone who is thinking himself advanced without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is cheated. This is the basic principle. I mean Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness, so when we speak of Kṛṣṇa-God. Without God consciousness, everyone is cheated. And because everyone is cheated, there must be cheater. This is correlative term. If I say, "I am cheated," that means there is a cheater. And if there is a cheater there must be cheated. This is relative term.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: NBC did an unfair story on Gurukula. They cheated. And I would like to undo that. I would like to go and show that the school is very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is very kind of you, but there have been so many attempts to cut down this movement, but they are cheated. They could not do so.

Dr. Gerson: May I try to help?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is your real business. In India also, they are still making so much propaganda. They are making propaganda that "These American devotees, they are CIA." (laughter) This propaganda is very strong in India, making the people against these American boys who are preaching. So this is going on. They financed one film, "Hare Krishna." That is spite against us. But still, those who are sincere, they are praising, "Yes, this is a real."

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

John Mize: And His anger or jealousy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes anger acts. If you fight, if you do not be angry, you cannot fight.

Jayatīrtha: In the Kṛṣṇa Book there are so many stories of Kṛṣṇa's anger or... Once, when His mother was (indistinct) a cooking pot...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: Kṛṣṇa's activities are always for the good. So even when He becomes angry...

Prabhupāda: That is also...

John Mize: Righteous anger.

Bahulāśva: Yes, spiritual anger.

Dharmādhyakṣa: It's His mercy. So if Kṛṣṇa gets angry at us, that's actually...

Prabhupāda: Everything has got proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list, how to use your, this anger, greediness, like that. He says, kamaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. We are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification. The same desire, same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are writing books, keeping night, whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But we are doing for Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, another author may be writing whole night for some sex literature. So the labor for producing a sex literature and the labor for producing a Bhāgavata is the same. It may be same ambition that "Let me become a big author. My name will be very popular." But one thing is being done for Kṛṣṇa; one thing is being done for sense gratification. So that propensity of becoming a reputed author or the labor, this, same, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Similarly, you take anything, if you use it for... Just like Hanumān. He became angry upon Rāvaṇa. He set fire in his city, destroyed the whole city. He showed his anger, but not for his personal sense gratification. He wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We cannot give up anything, but we are being trained up how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So give him some prasāda.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you want to preach this particular portion and no other portion?

Devotee (1): No. We want to... We want to know if the story has an allegorical meaning rather than a literal translation, or that King Ugrasena who was a man who lived five thousand years ago and had four billion bodyguards, or whether the stories within the Bhāgavatam, apart from some of them being actual, are allegorical stories. Such as the story of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma chopping off the the eighty-eight...

Prabhupāda: All right. You can give up that portion. You can take other portion.

Devotee (2): We don't mean to give it up.

Devotee (1): We don't mean to give it up.

Devotee (2): We're saying how can we say to them...

Prabhupāda: Anyone, anyone... Why you are going to preach that portion to a professor?

Devotee (1): No. When they read your books, they pose that question to us.

Devotee (2): They read it. They say to us.

Devotee (1): And unless we can answer that question...

Prabhupāda: They ask to only you, but they never ask to us.

Revatīnandana: They have. Sometimes they ask me.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let them ask. But you can tell away that(?) but you don't repeat this thing. You can give up that portion. You read other portion.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: ...jīva mā mara. The slaughterhouse maintainer is advised that "You don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. "Your position... Now you are... If you live, just see how horrible business you are doing. And if you die, you will be slaughtered. So better you don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. (break) ...nice park, nobody is coming. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we are taking advantage. (laughter) They have worked so hard, they are sleeping. We are taking advantage. So they are escaping or we are escaping? Just see how foolish they are. They have worked so hard, and they are not taking advantage. We are taking. So our policy is that "You work hard, and we go and take from you." This is not escaping. This is intelligence, that "You work hard, rascal. You are foolish asses. And we take advantage." Our George Harrison, he is working hard, in England (?). And he worked hard, and he gives a house, Bhaktivedanta Manor. We are not going to construct. Is that escaping or it is intelligence, that "You work hard and give it to me. We enjoy"? This is intelligence; that is not escaping. That is going on. The capitalists, they are engaging these rascals, asses, in the factory, and he enjoys life. That is intelligence. That is not escaping. You know the story of the stag and the jackal? The jackal fell in the well water. So he was not..., unable to come out. So one stag came there. "What is the...?" "Oh, it is so nice. I am dancing. You see? It is very nice." So he also fell down. And as soon as he fell down, he got on his head and got out.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Try to become purified. Don't imagine and guess, "What will be the condition when I am purified?" This is all nonsense. Try to become purified.

Devotee (2): Then you perceive it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: You tell the story of the potter. He has many pots. (Prabhupāda laughs) And he tries to imagine what it will be like when he becomes very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense, waste time. (break) ...you are eating you will understand yourself, "Yes, I am eating, I am getting strength, I am getting satisfaction." But simply theory..., "What will happen after eating? What will happen?" You eat and you see what is happening. What is the use of asking this question? You eat and you will understand. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...Harrison, he wrote in his preface that "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness.

Brahmānanda: Fasting is one way of eliminating the disease without taking medicine.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a Indian proverb that "Disease and unwanted guest, if you don't give food, they will go away." If some guest has come whom you do not want, don't give him food. Then he will go away. (laughter) Similarly, disease, if you fast, it will go away. (break) ...another story: prahareṇa dhanañjaya. One gentleman had eight or nine daughters and son-in-law. So when they came, he was giving them good food and shelter, everything. So then they saw, "We are very comfortably living at father-in-law's expense." So they did not want to go. The father-in-law saw, "It is very dangerous that all the son-in-laws are not going." Then he began to... First day he did not supply salt. So one son-in-law say, "Oh, they are now disrespecful, they have not given salt." So one went away. And next day, something else, something else, something else, shortened, shortened. So those who were intelligent, they went away. The last one, he was not going. Then his brother-in-laws thought that "Give him good beating." Then he went away. Prahareṇa dhanañjaya. Others, those who were intelligent, they, when they thought that "Now there is disrespectful dealing, they are not giving everything," so they gradually... The last one, he was a rascal. He was beaten severely; then he went away.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...English?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.

Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But the barrister, he was English.

Prabhupāda: He was appointed because he was a big barrister. Formerly any European, he is very big. So he appointed a very big barrister.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, if they read. Even if they touch. That is the difference between this book and ordinary book. Even they touch and they read one line and says, "Oh, it is very nice," he makes a step forward. If he simply says this word, "Oh, it is very nice," that is sufficient to bring him. Therefore I am trying to push. He has paid some money. He will then say, "What these nonsense have written. Let me see." (laughter) And if he sees and says, "Oh, it is very nice," then the beginning is immediately. Therefore we are trying to push. At least let him say, "It is very nice." The Kartikeya's mother, the practical experience... The Kartikeya, when he used to go to see his mother, the mother was going to dance, ball dance, and she would not speak: "All right, sit down. I am coming." She used to go out. The same mother gradually, in the association of her son, became Kṛṣṇa conscious. So at the time of death she asked Kartikeya, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and she died immediately. This is the effect. So anta-kāle, she remembered Kṛṣṇa, so her life was successful. She inquired like this, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" And immediately died. So she got the benefit of her son's Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can ask Kartikeya also. She said that.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, he told me that story.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So all the mothers of my disciples, they will get salvation because she has got nice son like...

Jayatīrtha: All the mothers will get salvation.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: (in car:) It says, "Forgive me if this story is not well-written. I am a woman. My brain weighs less than a man's, and I am not equal in intelligence." So she admits. "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the seventy-seven year-old founder of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, said so Wednesday. The Society is dedicated to peace in the world through love of God and relinquishment of all things material. The Swami spoke seated cross-legged on an expensive looking cushion surrounded by fresh flowers, microphones and burning incense in a conference room he rented at the Sheraton Chicago Hotel. He is in town for a Kṛṣṇa parade at 1:30 p.m., Saturday down State Street in which he will ride on a flower-bedecked float. He then will fly to Philadelphia for more celebration and philosophical chats. He looked occasionally at his gold watch as he explained his life philosophy. His adoring disciple, five men, knelt at his side. 'The MAN,' " capital M-A-N, "he said, 'who loves God, controls his sense, is clean inside and out, is simple and tolerant and uses knowledge he has acquired in practical life...' "

Prabhupāda: Intolerant?

Jayatīrtha: No, "and tolerant." " 'Such MEN,' " capital M-E-N again, "he said, 'are first-class citizens and should be advisors to the world. Second and third-class MEN have not found God and should be administrators and workers.' " Not exactly right. "He spoke thirty minutes and never mentioned women. I asked how women fit into his system. 'Women,' he said, 'is not equal in intelligence to man. Man's brain weighs sixty-four ounces; women's weighs thirty-six ounces. It is just a fact.' He continued, 'Women are meant to assist men. That is all.' He said women do not figure in his class system except as daughters or wives. 'An unmarried woman presumably is classless. Is that,' asked a male reporter..."

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) That is fact. She is prostitute, that's all. If you classify, then she is prostitute. (laughter) That's all. There is no other way.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...in the Dallas there is no problem. Educate the girls how to become faithful, chaste wife and how to cook nicely. Let them learn varieties of cooking. Is very difficult? These two qualifications, apart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, materially they should learn. There are many stories, Nala-Damayantī, then Pārvatī, Sītā, five chaste women in the history. They should read their life. And by fifteenth, sixteenth year they should be married. And if they are qualified, it will be not difficult to find out a nice husband. Here the boys, they do not want to marry because they are not very much inclined to marry unchaste wife. They know it, that "I shall marry a girl, she is unchaste." What do you think?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is psychology. If woman is chaste, even though she is not very beautiful, she will be liked by the husband. So train them in that way: very chaste, faithful wife and knows how to cook very nicely. Other qualification, even they haven't, that's all right. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being trained up. Then there will be no difficulty. And boys should be first-class man. Then our Gurukula will be successful. What do you think? Am I right?

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: So that is foolishness. You are making, (imitates piledrivers sound) "Dung! Dung!" very solid, but you are not going to live. The "Dung! Dung!" but that's all. This is called foolishness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there was one great personality—I forget his name—he was going to live as long as how many millions of years that he had hairs in his head. What is that story?

Brahmānanda: The story of the man who was on the beach...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Romaharṣaṇa. Romaharṣaṇa Muni was standing on beach and was chanting. So Nārada Muni was passing: "Then why don't you make a cottage here?" He was: "Oh, how long I shall...?" That, his life, was: when one hair will fall, one Brahmā will die. (laughter) And in this way all the hairs, when they will fall—all the Brahmās will die—then he will die. And he was thinking, "How...?" Actually that is a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who was that, Romaharṣaṇa Muni?

Prabhupāda: Romaharṣaṇa. (break) ...basic principle of Vedic civlization. They did not... Vyāsadeva, such a learned scholar, he was sitting in a cottage. Lord Śiva, such a big powerful, and the whole material energy, Parvati, is his wife—he is sitting under a tree.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Every śloka we are describing word to word. So every śloka you will find new idea, new idea. There are 18,000 verses.

Prof. Hopkins: (laughs) I would react the same way if anyone asked me a question like that. But you've... In the beginning of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you did discuss the general story(?).

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you have not seen it?

Prof. Hopkins: Yes, I've seen it. I'm just wondering what your judgment is on what... If you had to say to someone who was going to collect one small section of your work, what would you want them to collect?

Prabhupāda: That is stated in few verses, you find out this. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya (SB 1.2.9).

Brahmānanda: In the First Canto?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate. The first thing is that people become religious. Just like in your Christian religion they go to the church to get some material profit. "Oh God, give us our daily bread." This is material profit. Similarly, Hindus or Muslims, they become religious, dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), the material activities. Those who are actually advanced... Those who are not even human beings, their philosophy is different. Those who are human beings, their dharma, religion. Then artha, economic development, and then kāma, sense gratification, and then mokṣa, liberation. These four things are taken as general activities. So Bhāgavata says your dharma... Religious principle means the ultimate goal is how to become liberated, not artha. Artha means economic development. So then question may be if you do not, if we are not economically developed then how we shall live? The Bhāgavata says that you can make economic development as far as it maintains your body and soul together. Not that making whole life economic development and real purpose of life forget. This is foolishness. So dharma, artha. Dharma means, religious advancement means how to get out of this material condition. Not that I go to temple and chant, "God, give me millions of dollars, and this, and that." This is not possible. It is good that one has gone to God to ask some help, that much credit is there. You have found out the verse?

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That they can say.

Jayatīrtha: Well, our published figure is that worldwide membership is ten thousand. How much of that is in the United States isn't exactly broken down.

Reporter (2): I did a story on this movement five years ago and the figure at that time was two thousand in the United States also.

Prabhupāda: It is increasing.

Reporter (2): It is increasing?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Definitely.

Jayatīrtha: I said that the worldwide figure is ten thousand.

Reporter (2): Yes, I understood. Could you tell me how old you are?

Jayatīrtha: He wants to know your age, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: After one month I will be eighty.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Well, money is everyone is getting. The dog is also getting. Sometimes dog is inheriting the property of his master. But that does not mean he is not a dog.

Paramahaṁsa: About one month ago there was a very big story in the newspapers about how this student who went to all the archives in the Washington D.C. library, and from known records he compiled enough information to construct an atom bomb. Did you hear about that?

Prabhupāda: No.

Paramahaṁsa: He became world famous. So they concluded that anyone who wanted to could get normal information from normal sources and theoretically construct an atom bomb. But they don't have the equipment, but they have the knowledge now. So they're proposing in that sense that any terrorist organization within the next five years will be able to invent their own atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: So now the Lord has incarnated in the form of Hare Kṛṣṇa sound to deliver the atheist. The world is full of atheist. Therefore this movement is there.

Professor: It's like the story about the blind men and the elephant, I think. A lot of people know one incarnation and think that that is all of God, and they do not know that that is only one incarnation or is only one manifestation.

Prabhupāda: No, incarnations there are many. Many incarnations. There is a verse there. But Kṛṣṇa is the origin of incarnation. He is the original source of all incarnation. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So as you are teacher of religion, so you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, during the last year I went to many different colleges and universities. And I could see that these professors are very much argumentative. They like to argue. They like to debate. So I tried to start one debating program so that they could come and they could bring their philosophy. And I told them that I could show them their philosophy and how it was defective from the Bhagavad-gītā. I wanted to know if this was a good program for the universities.

Prabhupāda: What is the philosophy?

Devotee (4): There were some engineers that came. And they said that everything that we see manifested in this material world is made by the engineers.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is the greatest engineer.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: They, śūdras are there. Give him his eating, and some hand, pocket expense, hand expense, regular. If one can eat, then he has no demand. So the laborer has to be given to eat sumptuously. "Eat and work, take some pocket..." They will be (indistinct). Not that you call professional laborer and you have to pay twenty-five dollars per hour. That is nuisance. They'll drink. That's all. And not that everyone should have nice house. Why? What is the use? Go in the village, live simple, produce food. That's all. Eat. Why this electricity and three-hundred story building and...? And then you don't produce anything, eat fish. "And let me eat..." Artificial. It is very easy to take the animals in the city and slaughter. A little vegetable and milk, they are satisfied.

Jagadīśa: Even in the culture of Europe they had kings who had a certain territory and then they would appoint men called vassals to take care of different sections and then the serfs would work on the land.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is system, whole world. They were called... In India they were called zamindars, Mohammedans, and the Hindu zamindars, small kings. The zamindars are called king also. Anyone who owns land, he is called king.

Car Conversation -- August 3, 1975, Detroit:

Brahmānanda: Solzhenitsyn. Did you see him when you went to Moscow? Śyāmasundara was saying.

Prabhupāda: No. There was proposal.

Brahmānanda: He talks so much, Śyāmasundara. He told a whole story, that you went outside Moscow to some colony, artist colony. He was living there.

Prabhupāda: I think Śyāmasundara went to see him.

Brahmānanda: Oh. Anyway, he came to America, but President Ford refused to see him.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Brahmānanda: Because he was afraid. He was advised by Kissinger that "If you see him, then the Russian leaders, they will become angry upon you." So he refused to see him. So this received a great deal of criticism in America, that "We are for freedom and here he is coming, freedom fighter, and you refused to see him simply to pacify the Russian leaders." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was a fault?

Satsvarūpa: His fault is that he spoke out against the whole Russian...

Brahmānanda: He speaks very strongly, condemns the Russian system.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Russian, it is terrorism.

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: My Godbrother says-Tīrtha Mahārāja—that American government has given me two crores of rupees. They are supposed to be spiritually advanced, and they are so rascal. And he is the head of Caitanya Matha. Kṛṣṇa said, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham: (BG 9.22) "I take the responsibility of his expenditure." Kṛṣṇa says, and they are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and they are thinking, "American government is doing, not Kṛṣṇa." Such fools and rascals, they are head of..., a spiritual head. Karmīs, jñānīs—everyone is envious of our... And they are trying to speculate how to admit: "Where he gets money? Where he gets money?"

Harikeśa: That man in San Francisco? The photographer? He was always trying to take pictures of your rings and always trying to take pictures of all the rich things on the altar. He was trying to make a story like that. They try to show that you are enjoying.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: They are trying to show that you are enjoying.

Brahmānanda: Even in Chicago the one, the woman who wrote the article, the 34-ounce? She said how "You looked at your gold watch." That was in the article, such an important thing.

Prabhupāda: Nityānanda Prabhu used to decorate Himself with very costly ornaments. Your teeth does not look very clean.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- August 17, 1975, Bombay:

Girirāja: We have to get the plan sanctioned first of all.

Prabhupāda: It is not sanctioned?

Girirāja: Oh, you mean one more story?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Girirāja: Oh. Well, we were considering demolishing this one.

Prabhupāda: Demolishing.... Saurabha said that cannot be... Here we cannot build?

Saurabha: Well, we have to have a certain amount of garden space, and according to the master plan this is supposed to be garden. Otherwise we're not allowed to build any other building there.

Prabhupāda: No. Then, above that, that side we shall build.

Saurabha: Very big building.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, big... Here you can simply have one story more. And what about this land?

Saurabha: This is used now for storing sand. That land or this?

Prabhupāda: No, no. This.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- August 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let us first of all construct. Then we can consider. The dogs cannot enter anymore. Now they enter. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) No. I'm not feeling very well.

Dr. Patel: Then I think something should be done for you.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So how many stories this building?

Saurabha: Three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Ground floor, eight.

Prabhupāda: Eh? How many we are having?

Saurabha: We have... Well, the height would come same as that. This is the limit now. They don't allow any higher building.

Girirāja: We could have had an extra story, but since the ground floor will be round and public gathering place, so we're making a little higher plinth in a higher ceiling.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. Do it nicely. And we cannot make garage like that? Hm?

Saurabha: Yes, we can make. How many garages do you want?

Prabhupāda: That we shall see.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is going on. They do not understand that this world is meant for suffering. We have discussed little in that topic with Śyāmasundara. Just like they invented the communistic idea. Does it mean the communists are not suffering? They are suffering more. They have no liberty. They have lost their liberty, the whole people. They are so much pressed by the government that there is no liberty at all. The younger generation, they cannot go out, so much suffering. I may live even in a big house, but if you say, "You cannot go out. Then you'll be punished," that idea will be suffering—"Oh, I cannot go out."

Brahmānanda: We have one devotee. He escaped from Communist Hungary, and he was telling me all the story, how on the borders how much they keep the people from trying to escape. Even in Berlin, in Germany...

Prabhupāda: They shoot.

Brahmānanda: They have a system, automatic shooting, that if you cross a certain line, they have these rays of light, and if you break the ray of light, then automatically all machine guns start firing in the whole area. It's all done...

Prabhupāda: This is their scientific advancement.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Dhṛṣṭaketu: Of course, they may say that "Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man like me and therefore He is asking..."

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man, and He is lifting the hill.

Brahmānanda: Well, that's just a story in a book.

Prabhupāda: He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say, "Oh, it is story."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They want historical evidence for everything.

Brahmānanda: Yes, why doesn't Kṛṣṇa come and do it now?

Prabhupāda: He is not your father's servant, that he will come by your order. He's the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa is doing the same thing still, but you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is doing. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world?

Brahmānanda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender?

Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63), Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal the police will punish you.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, plastering also.

Saurabha: But it comes to about eight thousand bags if I do the whole land like that around. That is the full thing, two stories. It comes to about eight thousand. And then there's always some extra for finalizing the floors...

Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't want to use this iron.

Saurabha: No, we don't require iron.

Prabhupāda: Simply brick. So in that way you still require ten thousand?

Saurabha: We require about eight thousand but it's best to apply for ten thousand. If we only need five thousand, we take that. They will give us that allotment.

Prabhupāda: Do it. (break)

Dhṛṣṭaketu: When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute then the airplanes would be there.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute then the airplanes would come and...

Prabhupāda: Where is Kṛṣṇa playing flute?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: In Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then why the airplanes do not come Delhi? (laughter) (pause) He is godless and we have to fight against them. Just see our position. We have to fight with the whole world.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Vāsughoṣa: Once I went to one Gauḍīya Matha in South India, and I showed them a picture of our Deities in Hyderabad. They said, "This Kṛṣṇa is white." So later on I told that story to Acyutānanda Swami, and he said, "Do you know what I tell those people? I say, 'No, Kṛṣṇa is not white. You just can't see Kṛṣṇa.' " So like that, sometimes we are criticized by them for Kṛṣṇa in the Deity being white. (break)

Hari-śauri: ...Kṛṣṇa's energy is all-spiritual, then why in Bhagavad-gītā does Kṛṣṇa make a distinction—"My separated material energy"? Why does He say, "separated"?

Prabhupāda: Separated... Just like I am talking and this will be reproduced as it is, although it is separated.

Hari-śauri: So He's not personally present there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you replay, the same voice will come, but I am not there. So if you want to utilize this separated energy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it will help you. Just like the Deity. Everyone knows it is stone, but why we are worshiping stone?

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Your question is that he has proved. What he has proved?

Indian man (5): No, no. His point of saying is that...

Prabhupāda: Whatever he says, he is saying nonsense. That's it.

Indian man (5): No, no, the point is that it is a story to teach people the rules and regulations of war. He wrote... It is a hypothesis during which the people are taught the morals of the life. No such war actually existed. There is already...

Prabhupāda: That is his foolishness. He's a rascal.

Indian man (2): But we have seen a person rejecting his own father: "My father was also (unclear)."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore a rascal can say like that. A rascal can say like that.

Indian man (2): Somebody said that "No, my mother's name should come after my name, or father's name."

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. Therefore they have been called mūḍhas. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. They have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as duṣkṛtinaḥ. First of all they are very, very sinful. They have got merit, but sinful merit, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Kṛti means meritorious, but duḥ, duṣkṛtina. So on account of their (being) duṣkṛtinaḥ they are mūḍhas. They cannot understand what is scripture, what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand. It is not possible.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: You cannot speak Hindi?

Girirāja: I can't give discourses.

Kartikeya: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "Yes, no, very good." You know this story, "Yes, no, very good"? No? There was one kansamar(?). So he was to go home, so he asked his friend that "So long I am not here, you serve European master." So he said, "I do not know English. How can I serve him?" "No, no, no. These three words will do: 'yes, no, very good.' " Then he was engaged. (laughs) Then one day from the master's room something was missing. So he asked the new servant, "You have taken it?" "Yes." (laughter) Then he asked him, "Return it." "No." (laughter) "Oh, then I shall hand you over to the police." "Very good." (laughter) Then when the police came, he was won..., "Sir, what is this? You have...?" "No, I do not know this." Then he was explained, that "I understand these three words only: 'yes, no, very good.' " That's all.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no. After, he became a great sage. That is all right. But in the beginning everyone is subjected. Which way we shall...

Kartikeya: We can go straight.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Brahmānanda, you just take an idea. We shall construct Gurukula in this pattern.

Brahmānanda: This building here, double story.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Double or three-storied.

Kartikeya: Most simple type.

Prabhupāda: Very simple type, very nice. Just get a sketch with your work. This will be done like that.

Brahmānanda: I'll ask Bhārgava. He has his camera. He can take photographs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And downstairs, all shops. Only the roadside. Other side...

Brahmānanda: Oh, no. That's the courtyard, and then other side, a building. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...at the Gurukula best thing is outdoors classes. As soon as they're in rooms it gets too hot.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, outdoors.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. That is real understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. As soon as the Māyāvādī thinks that Kṛṣṇa also accepts a material body... Therefore they are called Māyāvādī. They are called Māyāvādī because they think Kṛṣṇa's body is also māyā. Therefore they are known as Māyāvādīs.

Dr. Patel: He takes birth in divya-vigraha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their story is: "As soon as there is form, it is māyā." They cannot think beyond that in their own terms. Because we have got this form, material body, so their generalization is "As soon as Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu, anyone, if He takes this form, then it is material." That is called māyā.

Dr. Patel: But He takes the form with the control over māyā. We take the form under control of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is the controller of māyā. That they do not understand.

Dr. Patel: They don't understand what is divya-vigraha.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They understand slightly sac-cid-ānanda, but they cannot think of that sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Śāstra says īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That they cannot understand, being less intelligent. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has explained, they cannot understand this. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇa aparādhī.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted the Supreme by all the ācāryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.

Harikeśa: Well, the Bible is just some story. I mean, the Bible is just some story. Why should we believe that all of a sudden there was…

Prabhupāda: No, Bible is not authorized because it was compiled after Jesus Christ finished.

Harikeśa: No, the Bible was there… Old Testament has been there for thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Old Testament, but what is going on, Bible…

Harikeśa: That Genesis, where it says the creation…

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Harikeśa: That's just some story. Why should we believe it? There's nothing else to believe. Why not believe this Darwin?

Prabhupāda: No, but you are not believing Bible. Bible, they say that the earth is square. So nobody is believing. So one point is sufficient, that it is not perfect. One point is sufficient.

Harikeśa: (laughing) It says the earth is square?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they… They say it. Formerly they believed that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Probably does.

Harikeśa: Oh, you mean flat.

Prabhupāda: You’ll fall down. If you go very far, you’ll fall down. Just like a child thinks. Bible, so many have been proved not authorized. Therefore Bible is not authorized.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian man (4): The Indian people, when they see the Africans in the temple, singing and all that, they criticize, you know. They criticize us. They say, "Oh, you..." That boy, he told me. He read your Nectar of Devotion. Then he came to the conclusion... He read the story also of Mahārāja Ambarisa. So he used to go to the Hindu temple to clean the floor early in the morning before going to university. He told me that he went for one week and they never said anything. When he was going daily the temple, they told him, "Don't come here. Don't clean here. We don't want the African to come." So then he told me that "What should I do? I want to follow the Prabhupāda instruction. So what should I do? Prabhupāda said in his books that if one cannot do anything, simply he should go to the temple and clean the room." He was so serious. Then I told the pūjārī that "Why you are doing like that? He wants to serve the Lord. Why don't you let him serve? You want to keep out the inside the temple and throw the pots and the cigarette in the temple?" (?) So they criticize like that sometimes. They're simply imitating us.

Brahmānanda: There was a man yesterday at Dabji's house who was the brāhmaṇa who was officiating. He is a very much caste conscious brāhmaṇa, and although he and Shah were the first ones to meet you at the Nairobi airport when you arrived, in Nairobi, as soon as he heard your philosophy, he has never come. He came the first day only when you first arrived, and since that day he has never come. And yesterday I think he must have just come because Shah forced him. But he does not at all like our philosophy that brāhmaṇa by qualification. He is very staunch—"brāhmaṇa by birth."

Devotee (5): They always say the Africans could never become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming?

Devotee (5): They don't believe.

Prabhupāda: Believe? You do not see even?

Devotee (5): But they say that "Oh, he will do it, and then, after one year, he will stop."

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another criticism. Somebody is eating nice yogurt. Everyone will say, "Oh, it is very nice. It is very nice, very nice." Another man says, "Yes, it is nice, but after three days it will be sour." (laughter) You rascal, you consider for the present. What "after three days"? Means he's a bad critic, so he could not find out any fault. Everyone says it is good. So "After three days it will be bad." This sort of criticism. So you have already become bad. You were doing service to others. What does he do, that priest?

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...but without education, without qualification, he wants to become a brāhmaṇa. They are called brahma-bandhu or dvija-bandhu. So Mahābhārata is meant for the, these persons: stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhunam. They cannot understand directly the Vedic injunctions; therefore it is simplified in a history. Mahābhārata is the history. History and stories, ordinary people, they can read with interest. But those who are advanced, they want higher philosophical thoughts. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ vāstava-vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). It is meant for higher class. So there are different literatures for different persons. Why there are eighteen Purāṇas, sattvic, rajasic, tamasic? Those who are tamasic, for them it is advised...

Dr. Patel: Devī Purāṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So that is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. So if Tīrtha Mahārāja is displaying...

Bhāgavata: Yes, Jayapataka Mahārāja told me he was there. He saw the construction, and it's going to be two stories high, 75 feet long by 30 feet wide, and they're going to have dolls on both floors, Caitanya-līlā.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's all right. You can do.

Bhāgavata: But we should make different līlās, different dolls.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Modern men will understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by display of dolls.

Dr. Patel: What are the dolls you are talking about all this time? We don't know, sir. What it means?

Prabhupāda: Dolls means the Bhāgavata śloka explained by doll display. Just like in your medical science there are sometimes...

Dr. Patel: Models.

Prabhupāda: Models, yes.

Dr. Patel: Just you are doing pictures in your Bhāgavata...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Like that, a model.

Prabhupāda: Models. Yes, exactly the word, model. You can display... Everything is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this anatomic, physiologic, how the child is growing within the womb of his mother.

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Animal?

Devotee (1): Yes. Like the dog. Is he happy to be a dog?

Prahupada: Yes. Everyone is happy.

Dr. Patel: There is one story in regard to this, sir... (break)

Prabhupāda: The answer? You have got the answer?

Devotee (1): Excuse me?

Dr. Patel: No. He was not. He was not attentive. I answered on his behalf with that story.

Bhāgavata: Once that happened to Indra, isn't it, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Anyone, in any condition of life, he thinks that he is happy. That is māyā.

Dr. Patel: If all the five holes of indriyas are made to look outside, get our pleasure from out, if they have turned within and get pleasure from yourself, then you are happy. That is in Kaṭhopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: You can see practically. People are living in, what is called, that zone, where everything is ice?

Devotees: The North Pole.

Prabhupāda: They are thinking happy. They do not come out.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is very preliminary knowledge. That is not... Just like you can predict that after two months there will be winter. That does not mean that you are very advanced scientist. (laughter) Any child can say. The rascal predicted that there is some comet, and it never appeared. He did. So therefore they are rascals. What is already scheduled, everyone knows. He can say that. (break) ...story about Kali dāsa. Kali dāsa was such a fool. It is a long story. It will take time. So he was sitting on a branch of a tree and cutting. So some intelligent man came, was passing: "Oh, you rascal, you'll fall down." So he did not care. He would go on. And when he actually fell down, he, "Oh, you are so nice astrologer." What is astrology? It is a common sense. If I say, "At six o'clock in the evening there will be no sun," (laughter) is that astrology? Even it is astrology, this astrology is known to everyone. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why should you interpret? Gopīs prayed Kṛṣṇa and all the Katyāyanī devīs that "Let Kṛṣṇa become our husband." So Kṛṣṇa fulfilled their desire because a woman can become naked only before husband. That is the purport, no other interpretation. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when that so many gopīs called, "So you wanted Me as your husband? All right, I become your husband." That's all. Because for a woman there is no shame before husband. So this was acceptance of husband. And so far renouncing everything, they had already done that. Therefore we take everything, śāstra, as it is, no interpretation. Then, simply by making oneself naked, he would have gone to Vṛndāvana. They interpret. These Māyāvādīs, they interpret in so many ways just to make the statement of Bhāgavata story. This is their real purpose. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) Without being liberated, can anyone expect to become wife of Kṛṣṇa? They were already liberated. These interpretation are there only to minimize the value of Kṛṣṇa and the value of gopīs. Māyāvāda bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nāśa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, "If you hear the comments by the Māyāvādīs, then you are finished."

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, you have got your injection. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: That is not for me. I give only... (laughs) His wife was brought yesterday to me, Yaśodānandana, and she told me that she was operated in the stomach for some growth. "What sort of growth was that? Was it malignant?" And she's suffering. Why don't you send her back or get the reports from the American hospital, what operation was performed on her, and we'll get out? Or she'll suffer all the time. That is the story of injection. Now let us talk. Until you realize God, then you are spirit. Up to then, you are always...

Prabhupāda: "I am Indian." "I am American."

Dr. Patel: More important: "I am a human being and others are lower animals." That is the greatest abhimana.

Prabhupāda: No, that is also.

Dr. Patel: Abhimana.

Prabhupāda: That is also, what is called, false ego. Human being or animal, they are not different, because the body is made of the same ingredient. If you manufacture a dog like a dog, like a man, what is the difference? The ingredient is the same, earth.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And what is not existing which is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Still people say, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." It is existing.

Yaśomatīnandana: They would even believe the mundane historians more than the śāstras. The historians have very funny stories. The Aryans came from the northeast Asia or something.

Indian man (1): Central Asia.

Yaśomatīnandana: Central Asia and inhabited in India. Then the Indian civilization sprang. Everybody thinks that India was not originally inhabited. It was all inhabited by the Dravidians, and then the Dravidians were pushed into the South and then Aryans dominated them. Whatever they learn in the schools. And because they have this theory, therefore they have to date all the śāstras, after, either after Christ or just a few centuries before Christ. (break) ...bhārata, they say, it must have been a small family feud and some poet's imagination made it a big war.

Prabhupāda: "May be. May not be." (laughter) We say, "may not be."

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I don't think so.

Dr. Patel: Not this, I mean, the material. But that is the way they do it. That is why their method of education is better than others.

Prabhupāda: They drink.

Dr. Patel: Drinking is different story. I talk of the general mode of education, the way.

Prabhupāda: No. Here are Americans. Is that the education? I don't think so.

Dr. Patel: No, postgraduate education is like that. Not undergraduate. The postgraduate boys are living in close contact with the professors for the research.

Brahmānanda: Only a few schools.

Dr. Patel: Ah, but there are. The research is...

Prabhupāda: No, the professor is also drunkard.

Dr. Patel: Then he may be a drunkard.

Brahmānanda: They drink together. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The professor goes to hell, and the student also goes. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is their close association.

Dr. Patel: That is the way they...

Prabhupāda: So you know that story, that one man was drinking, so his friend told him, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my mother drinks." "Oh, she will also go." "My father drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "My brother drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "Then where is hell?" (laughter) "Father, mother, brother, myself, if we live together, then where is hell?" Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: That's a fact. Education by association is the superior method, whatever type of education may be.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Whatever type of education may be, but that is the real education.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not whatever. This is the education, that the...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. This is education. There is no question of ABCD. First of all brahmacārī gurukule vasan dantaḥ. He is to be trained how to become sober and gentle.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: This book is stories of different Russian scientists and politicians, philosophers, giving their appreciation of how they knew Nehru and...

Prabhupāda: Just to pacify Indira Gandhi.

Dr. Patel: Flattering.

Brahmānanda: So they've just presented this book.

Yaśomatīnandana: Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19).

Dr. Patel: How they smuggled away the secret of atom smashing from America, these Russians?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: They smuggled away the secret of atom bomb from America.

Prabhupāda: The Germans.

Dr. Patel: No, the Russians smuggled away. Germans came to America, taking that...

Prabhupāda: They understood from the Germans.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: We have in Mahābhārata, that, I mean, Bhima threw away those elephants and rowing in the sky. And when Parīkṣit thought "How could it be?" then that elephants came down in the story. That means they were rowing about just like sputniks of today, perhaps. I don't know how they might have...

Prabhupāda: No, three books they have taken. They paid some eight lakhs of rupees. That Mr. Badhuri told me. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: That means this civilization must have felt the pangs of the modern sciences and then they must have lost it. No?

Prabhupāda: Not lost. It is there. You don't take it. That's it. What is there? One who can read... Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Good boy.

Harikesa: They couldn't chant those mantras though, could they? If they tried... Even if they tried, they wouldn't be able to chant the mantras.

Prabhupāda: Why? Nobody taught them. You are chanting. How you are chanting? Nobody taught them. That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation -- November 25, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So in every center they must rise early in the morning. They must follow the regulative principles. They must attend class. Otherwise let them go out. We don't want. And if anyone wants to marry, first of all he must show that he has some earning capacity. Not that "Because there are so many girls, and I marry one to satisfy my senses..." I thought that boy was nice, and I heard all these stories. That is also another defect, that we have got young boys and young girls open for lovemaking. And brahmacārī means strictly prohibited to see the face of woman. But we cannot stop it. That is also another defect. Fire is good and butter is good, but when they come together everything become bad. Is it not? Fire is good, just like heat. And butter is good, healthy. But when they come together the butter melts and the fire extinguished. This is māyā's arrangement. Puṁsa striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam. This whole world is going on by the sex attraction, and when they come together both of them become spoiled. Therefore it has to be dealt with very, very carefully, so many rules, regulation. (break) ...used, Nitāi?

Nitāi: Whenever there is necessity.

Prabhupāda: Compulsory.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu also never refused to see woman. But womans were offering respect from a distance, that's all. Not very near. But we don't see that He refused to see woman. Why the Goswamis will do that?

Dr. Patel: That is the story going round.

Prabhupāda: Then paṇḍitā sama-darśinaḥ. How it is possible?

Harikesa: There's that story of the one woman who was on His shoulder, on that (sic:) Nṛsiṁha column looking at Lord Jagannātha, and Govinda tried to take her down and Lord Caitanya said no.

Prabhupāda: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannātha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the devotees said, (in an urgent whisper:) "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannātha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee. That's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Just like the essence of the Vedic knowledge has been given in the story form in the Bhāgavata. That is how these people could understand that. These...

Prabhupāda: It is not story. It is history...

Dr. Patel: No, no, some are stories and divya stories.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is history and philosophy. They are not stories. Where it is a story, it is mentioned it is like a story. Just like this bhāvārthābdhi.. That is mentioned there. There are many such statements which is not history, but, what is called? Instruction. But they take everything, "It is fabulous."

Dr. Patel: From the lives from the so many saints, and...

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) If you want to be learned, then you have to read Bhāgavatam. Vidvāṁś cakre satvata. Vidvāṁ means Vyāsadeva. He compiled Bhāgavatam for the education of these rascals. Na te vidhuḥ svārtha-gatim. The same thing. They do not know what is their self-interest. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi visnu. And another place, anartha. This is anartha. Without knowing the real self-interest, they are engaged in so many so-called duties. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān: "Give up all these duties," but they will not do. Therefore Vyāsadeva says, anārthopasamaṁ sākṣād... These unnecessary engagements cannot be given up, anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). To teach them bhakti yoga... And, anārthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhoksaje lokasyājānato. These rascals, they do not know it. Lokasya ajānata. Ajānato lokasya. They do not know how to get free from this unwanted situation. But to get them free, vidyā... Vyāsadeva is vidvān, vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anārthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje lokasya ajanataḥ. Ajanato lokasya, they do not know, Hm? The same thing, a dog, what does he know what is the interest of life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised that because all these rascals are filled up all over the world, "Each one of you become a guru." Yes. So many gurus required. Āmāra ajñāya guru haya tāra ei deśa, wherever you are living, you just try to deliver your family, your neighborhood, your friends. Deliver, tāra. Tāra means deliver. "How can I do it? I am not a guru; I am a common..." "No. You have to become a guru." "How?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa': (CC Madhya 7.128) simply repeat the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa. Then you will become guru.

Page Title:Story (Conversations 1974 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=115, Let=0
No. of Quotes:115