Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after taking leave from His mother, left Bengal towards Orissa, and on the entrance of the district of Balasore there is a nice temple called Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple. And He saw the temple. Here the scene is to be arranged that there is nice temple and within the temple there is Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity, Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. The pūjārīs are there, ārati is being taken place, and at that time Caitanya Mahāprabhu entered with His followers chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, and He saw the Deity and danced before Him. And when the ārati was finished, prayer was finished, then He sat down, talked with His associates, Nityānanda and Gadādhara and Murāri. So Nityānanda Prabhu described about the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha, the story of Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. It was very nice story, that formerly one ācārya, Madhavendra Purī came to this temple, Gopīnatha, and while that condensed milk which is called kṣīra was being offered to the Deity, Madhavendra Purī wanted to taste it so that he would also prepare such condensed milk and offer to his Gopāla. So after that he thought, "Oh, it is being offered to Kṛṣṇa and I wanted to taste it. So I am so greedy." So he left the temple, that "I am not worth to visit this temple." He went outside the temple and sat down underneath a tree and was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then at dead of night, Gopīnatha, the Deity, was awakening His priest by dream, that "You please get up. I have kept one pot of condensed milk behind My..." What is called... That (pid?) vastra, kings, sometimes they have got, very long tail-like. What is that called?
Story (Conversations 1967 - 1973)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hayagrīva: Caitanya, the condensed milk thief.
Prabhupāda: No. Oh, you did not hear. Caitanya, after seeing the Deity, He was sitting and seeing and meantime Nityānanda Prabhu narrated the story how His name became Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. You did not follow me?
Hayagrīva: Nityānanda?
Prabhupāda: Nityānanda was going with Lord Caitanya.
Hayagrīva: Narrated this to Lord Caitanya? Nityānanda narrated this to Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, how the Deity was known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. The story was narrated that formerly He stole one...
Hayagrīva: Condensed milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pot of condensed milk for His devotee.
Hayagrīva: Now what direct relationship does this have to Lord Caitanya?
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya also visited. Anyone in those days going to Jagannātha Purī from Bengal they had to pass that way. And on the way the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple is there. So everyone used to visit. So formerly Madhavendra Purī, he also visited, and for him the Deity stole the condensed milk. From that time He's known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. That story was narrated to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So while sitting before the Deity, the story was narrated and Caitanya Mahāprabhu relished it that God is so kind that sometimes He steals for His devotee. This is the significance of this. So here the scene should be arranged that very nice temple, the Deity within, and Lord Caitanya entered while chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saw the worship, ārātrika. These things are to be shown in this scene. And a little story about Him, that's all.
Prabhupāda: A Deity like that should be situated in that temple. And His name is Sākṣi-gopāla. Similarly Lord Caitanya entered with His party and saw the ārātrika in Gopāla temple. Then the story of the Gopāla, Sākṣi, why He was known as Sākṣi-gopāla.
Hayagrīva: Saw what? Darate. Saw what? He saw...
Prabhupāda: Ārati.
Hayagrīva: Entered and saw in the Sākṣi temple and saw...? What did you say?
Prabhupāda: Sākṣi-gopāla means witness Gopāla. So how He became witness, that story was also narrated by Nityānanda to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That story is that in that village, two brāhmaṇas... That's a very long story.
Hayagrīva: What does this have to do with this temple? What does this story have to do with the temple? Lord Caitanya has entered this temple.
Prabhupāda: That's all. But how this temple was established, how Gopāla was established, that history is in that story. The Sākṣi-gopāla means witness. This Gopāla was situated in Vṛndāvana, but to give witness for His devotee He came to Orissa, that place. That is the significance of this Gopāla. Do you follow?
Hayagrīva: No. (laughs) No.
Prabhupāda: This Gopāla was situated at Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana means about more than one thousand miles away from where the temple is situated now. But He came one thousand miles to give witness for His devotee. Since then, Gopāla is situated there. So that story is narrated. That story should be narrated or what? How to do it? That is the significance of the temple. There was some family quarrel and Gopāla came to give witness to decide judgement on that quarrel. So it is possible to describe?
Hayagrīva: I think from a dramatic point of view, that in your third act, you can't have too many narrations. It becomes very tedious. If you have a narration. Someone telling the history of various temples. Like in the first scene, now there's a story being told Lord Caitanya by Nityānanda. Now in the second scene He visits another temple. And is there going to be another narration about how the temple was founded? I don't think that's... I don't know. (laughs) Do you think that will be all right?
Prabhupāda: No. That will be all right in this way, that the narration should be shortly described in poetry and that will be chanted with kīrtana. In that way, you see.
Hayagrīva: So what is the story? A short little story?
Prabhupāda: The short story is that there was two brāhmaṇas. Two brāhmaṇas. One young brāhmaṇa, one old brāhmaṇa. They went to Vṛndāvana to see Gopāla, and the old brāhmaṇa was so obliged to the young brāhmaṇa, he promised to hand over his youngest daughter to the young brāhmaṇa. But when he came back home his eldest son objected. So he kept mum. Then when the young brāhmaṇa, I mean to say, reminded him that "You promised before Gopāla to hand over your daughter. Now you are silent. What is this?" So his eldest son said, "Well, if Gopāla comes to give witness that my father promised before Him then my sister can be married with you." So he went back to Vṛndāvana and requested Gopāla to come and give witness. So He came and the marriage ceremony was performed. This is the sum and substance of the story. And since then Gopāla did not... Gopāla means statue. So in those days there was no transport service. And when Gopāla was present everyone became struck with wonder that "Oh, such a devotee that Gopāla has come from Vṛndāvana to Orissa, more than 1,500 miles." So the king of that place constructed a very nice temple and since then that temple is known as witness Gopāla. Sākṣi-gopāla means witness. So this story can be shortly described and chanted with music and the scene of the temple will be seen, Caitanya Mahāprabhu dancing. Our real purpose will be the dancing and singing and little description.
Hayagrīva: But I thought Rāmānanda Rāya was a devotee.
Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work. Do it nicely. That is expert. If you think that you are unable to do that work, then whatever work you can do, you take. But do it nicely. That is expert. Don't imitate. "Oh, I have no capacity to work in that way, but I want to imitate. Oh, he is doing that. I shall do that." Don't do that. That is not expert. You take up what you can do very nicely and do it nicely. We have so many works. Kṛṣṇa is not that He is static. He is dynamic force. Just like Arjuna, he was not a Vedantist, he was not a brāhmaṇa, he was not a sannyāsī. He was householder. He was military man. But he knew his business, how to do it nicely. So you do your business nicely. That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Kṛṣṇa. So that business becomes Kṛṣṇa. Do it nicely and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And that is your success. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate 'khila pārthiva vānaraḥ.(?) Expert. There is a very nice story in Sanskrit. A monkey. A monkey... You might have some experience, that sawmen, who cut wood? Sawmen. So a sawman was cutting wood by the saw. So at the end of business it was half cut so he pulled down a, I mean to say, a plug so that next day he will come and he'll again begin sawing.
Prabhupāda: Forget that. You are attracted. That you take account of. When you become diseased, that is useless. You are diseased. Take medicine. There is no necessity of asking when you became diseased. You are diseased. Take medicine. That's all. What is the use of tracing the history? Everything has his history, that's all right. But my immediate necessity is that "I am diseased. I want to be cured. Give me some medicine." But there is history. The history is this. Just like disease. You have fallen victim of disease. That means you have given chance to the infection. That's all. That is the sum and substance of disease. You are infected with some disease. That means you have given chance for that infection. There was a story in a medical journal. "Typhoid Mary." Typhoid Mary... One girl, whenever she was present everyone was being infected with typhoid. Then she was examined, that she is full of typhoid germs. But she was immune. But she infected wherever she went. The medical journal reported. So we should be careful not being infected. And that how you can become free from infection? These four rules. "Don't have this, don't have this, don't have this, don't have this." Then you are free from infection. So you should be careful from being infected. There is no use tracing out the history when you become infected. You should not be infected. That should be your business. And as you are now infected, you try to avoid the causes of infection and take the medicine; you become cured. Some prasādam? So Annapurna you have got some news?
Guest: But why, why are they trying to transcend material, transcend material nature? Who is doing these miracles? Or why try to do (indistinct) Why should human beings try to do (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: No. The yoga practice is like that. It is very good, that "Why we should bother ourself with such things?" That is the opinion of the devotees. The devotees, they do not want any such miracles to perform or to make some jugglery to the people. They are satisfied with the service of the Lord. So that is the position of the devotee. But generally, the yogis, they want such things. There are many instances of great yogis in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, just like Durvāsā Muni. He wanted to show his power to Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. That's a very nice story. I shall narrate next meeting. The yogis, everyone, yogis... Yoga practice is, therefore... It is more or less material activity. Because when they are powerful to show some miracles and people become captivated, "Oh, he is performing such miracle thing." In Benares in India there was a yogi. His business was anyone who will go there, he immediately produced two or four rasagullās and offer him. And many hundreds and thousands of educated men became his disciple simply for the matter, rasagullā, which is only four annas worth. So people want to see this jugglery. And those who want following some or some material achievement, they want to show... Actually it is a fact.
Prabhupāda: The difference is that in Vṛndāvana they are pure devotees. They knew that "Oh, this is not a miracle for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can do anything and everything." So they were not surprised. If I lift one mountain, you will be surprised because you know that "Swamiji is man. How he is lifting?" But they know that Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. So there was no surprise. It is just like natural work. They were so much affectionate to Kṛṣṇa that... He was not only lifting. Every day He was doing so much great performances, and His boyfriends, they would come home, and they would narrate the story to their mothers, "Oh, mother, today Kṛṣṇa performed like this. There was a great demon, and He killed him immediately." And the mother will say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa did that? He is very nice boy, very nice." (laughter) Because they were so affectionate to Kṛṣṇa, they always think, "Everything is possible for Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so nice. Kṛṣṇa is so great." That is their idea. So (indistinct) that is not miracle. That is ordinary thing for Him. Just like Yaśodā. Kṛṣṇa's friends complained, "Mother Yaśodā, Kṛṣṇa has eaten earth. You gave Him sweetmeat, but He was not eating sweetmeat." You know. The boys, they complain each other and again make friends.
Prabhupāda: Any principles of religion current in the world, they are all included in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, any principle. But just like if you have got two millions of dollars, the ten dollars, fifty dollars, five hundred dollars, five thousand dollars, or go on increasing, everything is included there, similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is perfect. Just like in New York there is a building, Empire State Building. It is 102 stories. So one who has gone up to the topmost story, 102, it is to be understood that he has passed over the fiftieth story or fortieth story or tenth story or all the stories. So one who has become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he knows everything, the meditation, the yoga, this practice, that practice. Everything is there. That we can give proof. It is practically. So we have to simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be included there.
Prabhupāda: On the corner?
Janārdana: It's on a corner. It's on the corner of Esplanade and the other street. I don't remember. I can go on my bicycle and take a look there.
Prabhupāda: That's a very big building?
Janārdana: It is a three story house. It is about the size of one of these houses here, not the apartment houses but...
Prabhupāda: That, some cross?
Janārdana: Yes, there's a cross there.
Prabhupāda: Pastor, it is written pastor?
Janārdana: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's small building.
Janārdana: That is small?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen it.
Janārdana: At the age of five.
Prabhupāda: Yes, at the age of five. And at once he went out. In his previous life. Then from five years till the end of life he cultivated Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and next life he became Nārada.
Yamunā: Oh. (break)
Prabhupāda: I think that is described in the first part of our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That story is there, how he convert, how he became Nārada. (break)
Mālatī: Twice a month he would visit his father. His father is a demon. So Tore carries in his pocket one nice picture of Swamiji and one nice... On the back is written, tava kara kamala vare. And he sits and says that under his breath because if his father heard, his father gets mad.
Prabhupāda: This is the age for injecting Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If children are taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness from this age, the face of the world will be different. (break) ...but they are not Hindus. They have got also obstinacy like that. (break) It is very important. "I thought in that way. When my mother died, as the devotees of the Lord think, I also thought in that way. What is that? 'Oh, it is a grace of the Lord. My mother is now dead.' Because she is the, I mean to say, real cause of my nonfreedom. So she is now dead. Then I am free." It is very contradiction from the materialistic point of view. It is said that, bhaktanam śam abhīpsataḥ. "As the devotees think, so I also in that way thought."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: He has some doubts about the means they're using to go there. He doesn't think that the...
Reporter: I think what... I think we have to carry it further enough so that we can tell whether, for one thing whether I have a story or not. If it's felt if you have doubts that it can be done, that's one thing. But if you have great confidence that it can never be done except by changing one's body...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that. I say that in order to enter into the... Just try to understand me clearly. In order to enter the moon planet you have got to prepare yourself for a suitable body. Is that clear? If you, by some way or other, you make that suitable body you can enter. But the present body which you have manufactured, the spacesuit, is not suitable.
Reporter: Okay, then when I try to carry it further, if they use the present body and do, are successful...
Prabhupāda: That they could not do till now. That is future contemplation. Because even going up to sixty miles off they could not. Therefore this is not suitable. Now you say also, just like they didn't have the ticket. The further arrangement is still waiting. That means this is not suitable. This is... We just try to convince you.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "So we want to see him naked in this assembly." So she prayed Kṛṣṇa. Mahābhārata story is very nice, how Kṛṣṇa, protecting His devotee.
Gargamuni: Swamiji? Didn't Karṇa request Arjuna not to fight when he was lifting the chariot? Didn't Karṇa request Arjuna not to kill him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Request. But Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You kill him. I say." Arjuna said, "That's all right. (laughter) When You order me, 'Fight,' I don't care for any morality or discipline. Your order is 'Fight.' "
Devotee: Can you chant for us loudly? Can you chant from the Bhāgavata?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll chant. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, thank you very much. All should be offered there, Jagannātha. The etiquette is nice. Everything should be offered to the, through the spiritual master. That is the etiquette. No direct. (Prabhupāda chants the second chapter of First Canto.) One chapter. Just play it. (break) ...have the sound only. (Laughs) The explanation... I shall give you little explanation.
Prabhupāda: So he could not tolerate that a householder king... King is supposed to be dealing in politics, economics. Therefore, according to social position, he is lesser than the brāhmaṇa because they are simply engaged in the matter of transcendental advancement of life. But a devotee is above the brāhmaṇas. That is the position of devotee. Here, the highest qualitative position is to be situated in the modes of goodness or to acquire the qualities of brāhmaṇa, in this material world. Truthfulness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity and knowledge, faith in God, there are so many qualifications which makes a person as recognized brāhmaṇa. But a devotee, never mind whether he's brāhmaṇa or a caṇḍāla, he automatically develop all these qualities. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has unflinching devotional faith in God, he has all the good qualities. I've several times narrated the story of that hunter. He was animal killer and he used to enjoy by killing the animal half. But when he became a devotee, he was not prepared to kill even an ant. Who taught him? Nobody taught him but he was simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Prabhupāda: 108. So at least 108 flowers we'll have daily. Yes. So it is very nice. Our Hawaii, tulasi grows very nice.
Haṁsadūta: Hawaii. They have a new place?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the place where now Govinda dāsī is staying, a very nice place, just on the seaside. And the house is two stories, entire house among the fig trees. There is nice arrangement. So you have any correspondence with her?
Jadurāṇī: A little.
Prabhupāda: So what does she say?
Jadurāṇī: She said the flowers weren't out yet, but that was months ago. We have some mail for you. One letter is from her with up-to-date news.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Some devotees are coming. And in Honolulu, two boys, they are also doing. In Hawaii there are two branches now. Yes. One at Honolulu, one at Kauai. Kauai. That island's name is Oahu. Hawaii has five islands' stretch, and this is called Oahu. Oahu island, one side, Honolulu, and one side... This island means hill. And the valley of the hills are utilized for residential purposes. So all sides, Pacific Ocean. And there is ample production of sugar cane and pineapple. I was chewing sugar cane as it is. Yes. And there is so many coconut trees, palm trees, and mango. In mango season they throw away mangos. So I have asked Govinda dāsī that "You make mango pulp and dry it and send it." So they are doing nice, husband and wife, Gaurasundara, yes, trying their best. I do not know whether they are working now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is known as Sūradāsa.
Allen Ginsberg: Teacher of Tulasī Dāsa, or student of Tulasī Dāsa.
Prabhupāda: He may be different, but Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, he was also blind. He made himself blind. You know the story of Bilvamaṅgala?
Allen Ginsberg: No.
Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?" Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall go to Cintāmaṇi." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was there. He took some nice foodstuff, and when he went, there was a big river, and it was raining heavily, and the river was flooded. So he thought, "How shall I go the other side?" So one dead body was floating.
Prabhupāda: But you have seen the temples?
Allen Ginsberg: Yeah, I went through all the temples I could find. But I didn't know enough to know what stories were associated with the temples or what were the names.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. No, worship is the same, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Only Rāmānuja-sampradāya, they worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa because it is sampradāya from Lakṣmī, so they worship...
Allen Ginsberg: Nārāyaṇa is another name for Śiva?
Prabhupāda: No. Nārāyaṇa is Viṣṇu. That is Kṛṣṇa's expansion.
Allen Ginsberg: According to Caitanya, Viṣṇu is an expansion of...
Prabhupāda: Of Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: Of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rāmādi-mūrtiśu... In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated. Rāmādi-murttisu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatārān akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ. Kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ. Svayaṁ means the Supreme Person. Samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo. Parama means the Supreme; pumān means the puruṣa, the male. God is male. God is not female. The conception of female God, that is not authorized. Paramaḥ pumān yo. So female is prakṛti, nature. Parasya śaktīr vividhaiva... Śaktī. So He has got many energies.
Allen Ginsberg: As the material shadow. How did we fall into that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here." So here every living entity is trying to lord it over, competition. I am trying individualwise, nationwise. Everyone is trying to lord it over. That is material existence. And when he comes to his senses, jñānavān, that "I am falsely trying to lord it over. Rather, I am becoming implicated with material energy," when he comes to that, then he surrenders. Then again his liberated life begins. That is the whole process of spiritual life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya māṁ ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture ways and means, falsely trying to lord it over. That will... You'll not be happy because you cannot lord it over the material nature. It is impossible. If we try to violate the government laws, is it possible for me? No. If I am to live as a citizen, it is not possible for me. Then I'll implicate more and more. This is crude example. Similarly, we are part and parcel of the Supreme. Just like there is a story, Udarendriyānām. Hitopadeśa. You heard the name of Hitopadeśa?
Allen Ginsberg: No.
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-saha...(?) From Hitopadeśa, they say, Aesop's Fables was translated. Aesop's Fables. There are stories like that. One dog is speaking to another monkey, monkey is... Like that. Hitopadeśa.
Allen Ginsberg: Jataka Tales. I know in the Buddhist, Jataka Tales.
Prabhupāda: So there is a story, Udarendriyānām. Udara means this belly, and indriya, the senses, hands, legs, means. So all these senses, they conferred that "We are working day and night, and this rascal is eating simply. So we shall noncooperate. We shall not work." That's all right. Resolution was passed. So they stopped working. And next meeting they saw that "We are becoming weak. Why?"
Allen Ginsberg: The hand wasn't bringing food to the mouth.
Prabhupāda: Then they come to their senses. "Oh, we have to feed this rascal belly. Otherwise we become weak." Similarly... What is this position? These hands and legs are parts anbd parcels of the whole. Similarly, the whole Brahman, Absolute, we are all parts and parcels. So we shall cooperate in satisfying Him. Then automatically we become satisfied. If we noncooperate, then we suffer.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also there is a story in the Bhāgavatam about the girls; they were offering to Lord Śiva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another feature of Lord Caitanya. He taught in that instruction that there is no need of worshiping demigods. The incident is that in India the unmarried girls, they are encouraged to worship Lord Śiva especially in the month of Vaiśākha, March-April. And they will go to the Ganges side and prepare Śivaliṅga, and they'll... That means Śiva will be pleased upon them to offer a husband like Lord Śiva. Śiva is very peaceful and very great devotee and most powerful at the same time. So that is the ideal husband. So they brought worshipable paraphernalia for worshiping Śiva on the bank of the Ganges, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as naughty boy, approached them. "Oh, my dear sister, what you are doing? Oh, you have brought so many nice things. Give it to Me, and Lord Śiva will be very much pleased. Oh, you are worshiping Durga? She is My maidservant and Lord Śiva is a great devotee of Me. So you please offer Me all these things; they will be satisfied. You don't require to offer separately." By this, He wanted to instruct that worshiping the Supreme Lord is the appeasement of other demigods. You don't require to appease them separately. This instruction. Then some girls will hesitate. Then He will curse them that "You'll be married with an old man having seven children by his former wife." So they will be afraid, "Oh, maybe this boy is cursing..." Then out of fear they'll offer. Then He said, "Oh, you'll have a very nice young husband and you'll have seven children by him." In this way it was going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are there any nice stories you can tell me so that I can... See, I need some stories from that part of His life to show in the play how He... Some incidents, memorable, you know, that...
Prabhupāda: There were not many. The Rathayātrā is very nice. He was chanting with a group of devotees, and while the car festival is going on. And sometimes car used to stop. It still stops. That is the fashion of Jagannātha. And nobody could, even an elephant could not draw it. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will say, "All right, come on." So He would push it with His head and it will go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did the people say when they saw that?
Prabhupāda: Then... That was... Caitanya Mahāprabhu already adored, He was. So, there is... Rathayātrā car festival, and Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Before the Rathayātrā festival, the system is Jagannātha goes from the temple to another place about two miles away. There is a big temple there also which is called Jagannātha Aunt's(?) house, Mahiṣī badi. So He stays there for eight days. Just like we make program in San Francisco to reside on seaside. So that temple was to be washed. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do it by His personal supervision. So all the devotees... And He will check how much dust you have recovered, and then you shall be rewarded. Otherwise, it should be understood that you have not labored nicely. (chuckles) So He'll sweep over the whole temple nicely and wash the ceilings and walls and everything so clearly. And He'll see in this way if there is any sand. If there is, "Oh, it is not washed." That means He would engage everyone. Then after washing, then call for prasādam and distribute Himself. This is called Guṇḍicā-mārjana. Actually, whatever He was doing, they were washing, "Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa," chanting. That's all.
Yoko Ono: But you said about if the milk goes through a serpent's mouth it will produce poison, and, for instance, George just told us about a week ago a very interesting story about a man who had a face of Christ, and in twenty years' time he had a face of Judah. And the Catholic Church and all those churches first probably had good words, and now it's deteriorating. Now, how would you decide, really, that brāhmaṇas are always in a pure state that you speak of, that they would never turn into serpents?
Prabhupāda: That you have to become a serious student.
Yoko Ono: Well, I mean, what do you mean by serious student? Maybe everybody, all of us are serious anyway. I mean, we're born serious or born, you know, unserious.
Prabhupāda: Then you must know what is distinction between Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, if you are serious student.
Hayagrīva: Any Indian history?
Prabhupāda: Indian history, that... Bhāgavata is all right.
Hayagrīva: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: That Kurukṣetra battle. That's all. And there are many other stories in the Bhāgavatam. They are all historical.
Hayagrīva: What about literatures? When they get older, of course. This would be for when they are older.
Prabhupāda: Literature, we have got so many. Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata.
Hayagrīva: Any English literature, American literature, English literature?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any... Some of the English literature, recognized.
Hayagrīva: Any of the sciences at all?
Prabhupāda: I don't think we require any science. What do you think?
Hayagrīva: Biology?
Kīrtanānanda: No.
Hayagrīva: Geology, zoology, astronomy.
Prabhupāda: Biology, you can teach them the evolution of the species from Padma-Purāṇa, 8,400,000's, one after another. Yes.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: He was very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, rigid brāhmaṇa. That's all.
Guest (1): He was insulted once in boyhood by something of Mahātmānanda.
Prabhupāda: Nanda.
Guest (1): Then he took oath that "All right, today I turn my (indistinct) and one day I will dethrone you from here. Then you can call me (indistinct)," and he went away. (tells story)
Haṁsadūta: Great determination.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yamunā: He was a great devotee?
Prabhupāda: No.
Yamunā: So he's not authority.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he was not authority in the spiritual sense. He was a politician, moralist, politician. That's all. Worldly man.
Prabhupāda: What is the value of vote by asses? According to Vedic civilization, there was democracy but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brāhmaṇas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne, he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brāhmaṇas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see. And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned but his son was on the... Just like Lord Rāmacandra did. Rāmacandra killed Rāvaṇa but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhīṣaṇa proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned but from his family, either his son or brother, or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was. So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brāhmaṇa and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Collier studied that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on. So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom. "No more kingdom because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics. Therfore they have taken... The zamindars, immediately after this attainment of independence, all the zamindars and kings were bereft of their possessions. You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur(?) You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families. In Ascot, where we stayed, that was also lord family's house. Now Yoko's house, a third-class Japanese girl. She has become the queen of the house. And how third-class, low-grade. It is the sitting room and a naked picture has... How much degraded people have become. How this man is daring to hang that picture in his sitting room so that everyone who comes sees. How much low-graded they are. They want change, but because they have no (indistinct) education they are going to the animal sphere. That is hippie movement. Yes. From animal standard they become civilized. The same story, punar muṣika bhāvaḥ. You know that story? "Again become mouse."
Prabhupāda: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me?" "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... (snarling sound-laughter) Just like our Brahmānanda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." You see? So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you again become stool worms. The human form of life is an opportunity to come out of the cycle of birth and death, but if one does not take—these are the statements in Padma Purāṇa—then he loses the chance. They do not know what is life, how life is rotating, talking nonsense, "I am God. Why Kṛṣṇa should be God? This is written by man." How much low-graded people have become. They are completely under the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14), stringent laws of nature, and still, they are claiming, "I am God. I am this. I am that. I am free. I am..." And they do not mind, even they are degraded to the position of the worm of stool. But there is possibility. What is this worm of stool? It is also living entity. It is not a different thing. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that the worm of stool and Brahmā are the same living entity. Simply under different reaction of karma one has become Brahmā and another has become the stool worm. Now we begin. (break) It is not difficult. Simply the layout should be sent to different parts, and they will make immediately plate, and that will be paper. Daily you have to send it.
Prabhupāda: That is the remark of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. But according to others' opinion, even simply by chanting, that is sufficient. In the Bhāgavata it is stated like that. But Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has remarked that this chanting referred to the context. Immediately he remembered Nārāyaṇa.
Himāvatī: In that same connection, the story of Ṭhākura Haridāsa and the harlot. She began to chant and told him the reason that she was a prostitute, she was no good and simply by that association she began to chant or by previous association...
Prabhupāda: No, by association. By the influence of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. For three days, three days she associated.
Himāvatī: But Professor Sanyal was putting forward his theory that in previous lives she had had association; therefore she began to chant.
Prabhupāda: Why previous lives? That's not very good reason.
Himāvatī: Subconscious, that she had subconsciously remembered.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. That is not.
Revatīnandana: So he went to the spiritual sky?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then what is the use of making friendship with Kṛṣṇa if you cannot do so? There was a rich man in Calcutta, Motilal Sill. He was so rich that... Every man has different circle in younger days. So he would see. If any of his friends did not possess a house in Calcutta, he would purchase house. He said that, "If people say, 'Oh, you are friend of Motilal Sill. You have no your own house?' what people will say about me? He must have his own house." He purchased house for him. He was very big man. And there are many incidences also like, a very noble story. Actually it was not long ago, say about hundred years ago. He would not see that any one of his associates, friends, does not possess a house in Calcutta. Another Kṛṣṇa's friend, Sudama also. (chuckles) He could not recognize his own place, how it had happened, palatial buildings, garden. In Kṛṣṇa, you have not read Sudama? Give me water.
Yamunā: (indistinct) mentions in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya that a devotee in attachment selects one of the Vṛndāvana..., the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful in his own devotional service. Does that mean that one of our spiritual masters is an eternal representative of Vṛndāvana? (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: What is that? Let me...
Yamunā: It says, "All inhabitants of Vrajabhūmi, Vṛndāvana, are very dear to Kṛṣṇa. A devotee in attachment selects one of the inhabitants and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful."
Prabhupāda: Devotee... Devoted to the Vṛndāvana inhabitants. You don't directly think of yourself that "I shall see Kṛṣṇa as my son."
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: So I said, "Well, how can we tell?" They said, "Well, there's no way to tell." I said, "Suppose we operate. Then it's guaranteed that everything will be all right?" They said, "No." But they thought they should do that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They canvass, they convince like that and make experiment. That is their business. They have no, I mean to say, assured idea. Simply experiment. All these hospitals, they are meant for making experiment. I think I have told you one story of my servant. Did I? Huh?
Haṁsadūta: No. Please tell us the story. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) The servant was crying, "Oh! I am dying, I am dying, I am dying." So I immediately called ambulance and took her to the hospital. Then, when I went there, there were so many neophyte doctors. They experimented, and they said, "Immediate operation is required." "Why?" They gave us some technical terms. Then their leader doctor came. He said, "All right. Let us see this night. Then, next morning, we shall operate." So I asked him, "I can go? He may remain in your charge?" "Yes." So I went, came back. And when I was absent, another servant of the neighbor, he told to my wife, that "Babuji..." Babuji means master. "...it is unnecessarily he has taken to hospital. He was drunk, and he was crying like that. (laughter) He drank." So my wife told that he was drunk, and he was therefore crying like that. "No, no. Doctor says that it is a serious case (laughter) and it is to be operated." And the next morning the servant came back. "And why you come back? You were to be operated?" "Oh, thik hai. It is now all right." Just see. The rascals were going to operate. He was drunk. In drunken state he was crying, and they took it a case of operation. That is my practical experience. Everything you take there: "Operation."
Prabhupāda: He never surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. I wrote him letter. "Mahatma Gandhi, you have got so much influence. You just preach the gospel of Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have attained svarāj. You don't be in politics." But he was still in politics after attainment of svarāj. And his assistants became disgusted because he was interfering, and therefore he was killed. And that is open secret. If he would have surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, "All right. Now I have worked for svarāj. My people have got svarāj. Now let me work for Kṛṣṇa,"... He never did that. You cannot say that he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He should have taken immediately sannyāsa and preached Bhagavad-gītā if he was actually surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. What did he do for Kṛṣṇa? We have to know from practical point of view. I'll tell you another story about Mahatma Gandhi. My Guru Mahārāja invited him in our maṭha, Mahatma Gandhi. So Mahatma Gandhi inquired... The, my godbrothers went to invite him. "What you are doing in your maṭha?" They replied that "We are worshiping Lord Kṛṣṇa." So he inquired, "Are you pulling on charka?" They said, "No sir," He said, "Charka is my God. If there is no charka, I am not going there." He said like that.
Makhanlal: Not sufficient menu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Previous year... Anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is... I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava, and there is no freedom. And this is the... They are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the... There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā... In Bengal, they worship Durgā Mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā Mātā, the Goddess Durgā is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see. This is story, just try to understand, that "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." Is that happiness? No food, no clothing. Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all. This is the sum and substance.
Prabhupāda: From the authorities, from God, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Male Interviewer: But if somebody else was to say that God had told him something else, would you equally believe him?
Śyāmasundara: It's not that we don't accept other religious processes.
Prabhupāda: No, we believe other process. Just like there are steps. If you want to go to the topmost story, so you go by steps. So some of them have gone fifty steps, some of them have gone hundred steps, but to complete the required steps is 1,000 steps.
Male Interviewer: And you've gone up the thousand have you?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Woman Interviewer: If any of us here this morning wish to become followers what would we have to give or give up?
Prabhupāda: First of all one has to give up illicit sex life.
Prabhupāda: That we give, the picture. Here is God.
Śyāmasundara: Just like Christ. He came to speak with a very ignorant class of men. He was forced to speak in parables and stories.
Dr. Weir: Ah, yes. Now parable is better than analogy. An analogy is an intellectual thing whereas a parable is a human thing. It's a warmth thing. It's in three dimensions, not a cross-section. And He was, of course, awfully clever at choosing them.
Mensa Member: I don't think your friend, Christmas Humphries will agree with either of those statements.
Dr. Weir: Knowing him very well, I don't... One would be surprised (indistinct) perfectly happy to feel that I was disagreeing with him. I think he (indistinct) himself to Kṛṣṇa at times.
Mensa Member: Well, is that absolutely (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.
Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.
Dr. Singh: There was a lot of chaos even in the old days when these divisions were there.
Prabhupāda: No, not so.
Dr. Singh: If you look at ancient history, it is one long story of massacres and wars and turmoil.
Prabhupāda: No.
Dr. Singh: If you read (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some thousands of years. But so far our Indian history goes, we had two wars only, big wars. One war was Rāvaṇa and Rāma, another was between the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas after many millions of years passed.
Dr. Singh: There's only two recorded wars.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost. The Vedic culture was lost. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Vedic culture was kept intact. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, while he was going on tour of the Western countries, he saw one black man was trying to kill one cow. He immediately took his sword, ""Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" So that culture we have lost. Immediately he began, "With this sword I shall kill you."
Prabhupāda: Everything was done by Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Singh: When He went as Addhutta(?). That to my mind is even the more important aspect of this whole story, because it...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, when everything was done by Him and Arjuna declined to fight, therefore Kṛṣṇa called him foolish, it is foolishness. Therefore He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. And when he came to his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he took up the opportunity. He said plainly that "Arjuna, you fight or don't fight, these people are not going back home. That is already settled up." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. So this plan was made by Kṛṣṇa, and there was no other alternative.
Dr. Singh: Arjuna was very lucky to have Kṛṣṇa there to tell him what the plan was.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Singh: Arjuna.
Prabhupāda: So everyone can become happy like Arjuna if he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's all. I was studying your book.
Śyāmasundara: They take us very lightly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are mūḍhas. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ (BG 9.11). Mūḍha, they are rascals.
Dr. Singh: (Sanskrit) That is the position actually. What is this little story, these two little things standing here? Some time back you called the drowning of the son of our teacher. Is this from the Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian woman (Mrs. Singh?): See these two little things standing here.
Malatī: It's Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's teacher's son was stolen, so He got him back. Guru-dakṣiṇā. The guru asked Kṛṣṇa, "I have lost my son. You can..." "Oh, yes." Guru-dakṣiṇā. That is how to (indistinct) satisfy the spiritual master.
Malatī: Sāndīpani Muni has...
Dr. Singh: Sāndīpani.
Malatī: He had sons?
Dr. Singh: Yes, because his wife...
Prabhupāda: That is the duty of the student, to give guru-dakṣiṇā. Whatever he wants, you must give.
Dr. Singh: Do you know that story of Ekalavya?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Singh: Fantastic story.
Prabhupāda: That give your finger just to keep the (indistinct).
Dr. Singh: To the kṣatriya. That is very unfair. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Not unfair. He thought that "He is a śūdra. He'll miss it."
Dr. Singh: So therefore he...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Dr. Singh: Therefore, he neutralized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like śūdra. In the Western countries, they are all śūdras. They are getting money and misusing on wine and women. They cannot use money (indistinct), simply for sense gratification. That is the śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, especially kṣatriya, as soon as they get money, they would make a big sacrifice to satisfy viṣṇu-yajña.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Actually, that is their philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've heard people say exactly that, "All the things I want to do are for the people that are going to hell, therefore I want to go to hell. Why should I go anywhere else?" (indistinct) drinking, smoking, etc... And so they will.
Prabhupāda: There was a story that the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said, "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, it is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners, they know that these things are happening daily, so what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So, according to one's taste the hellish conditions should described.
Devotee (3): And according to one's taste the heavenly conditions can be described also because Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems that just like a mother when she is training her young child, because the child is very young and not yet very advanced in intelligence, sometimes the mother uses the method of fear to train her child. So similarly, according to the consciousness of the people the doctrine of love of God has to sometimes be preached with a little element of fear so that they'll accept it.
Prabhupāda: That creation of fearfulness may be sometimes not fact but fearfulness is there according to our actions. That everyone has got experience. Just like if you steal, then you go to jail. It is a fact. It is not a creation of fearfulness. It is a fact. If you contaminate some disease, then the typhoid or any other disease, you contaminate. So there is suffering and that is really fearfulness, that is not a false creation. So sometimes there are false creation, but actually for our misdeeds we have to suffer, that's a fact.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest: So you are left with, that is another crude problem...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guest: ...that you have to take great care about. The traditional life of separate living is safer for organization. So all right to have men and are married and then in family they can mix. There is no difficulty. But when you start the separate organization, against which people are ready to manufacture stories, then you will have to be much more careful.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: So that is one comment I make as an old man.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are very valuable. Yes.
Guest: That is a wise thing from an old man. That's one thing. Then these are minor matters. On the philosophy of action which you have taken...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So their philosophy, "You are going to be hanged. Now you can enjoy whatever you like." So this philosophy, that because the Māyāvādī philosophy is impersonal, zero, therefore people don't care for sin. "Enjoy life. You shall finish."
Devotee: There's the story of a man who is being hanged and they said, "You can have whatever you want." So he said, "Whatever I want?" So they said, "Yes." So he says, "I want ten more years life."
Prabhupāda: We don't say whatever you want. You enjoy. Gratify your senses as much as you like.
Mālatī: Prabhupāda? What class of impersonalists are worshiping the Puruṣa-sūkta?
Prabhupāda: Hum?
Mālatī: What class of impersonalists are worshiping the universal form?
Prabhupāda: Well, universal form is not impersonal. That is personal. That is also manifestation of Kṛṣṇa.
Mālatī: But you say that... In one of your purports you are saying that the impersonalists are worshiping the universal form.
Prabhupāda: They are advised.
Prabhupāda: Man-eaters?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this Calcutta story is not a story, it is fact. Hm?
Guru dāsa: I was asking Yamunā about the tape.
Prabhupāda: Tape?
Guru dāsa: About this tape recording.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not the question of "the Chinese are eating, I am not eating." It is a question that how many number of different types of body I got. It is not that I am talking of Chinaman eating man or dog. I may be in this form, next life. So, therefore, the problem is how to stop this transmigration of the soul. That is the problem. Not that because the Chinese man eats something else other than I eat, that does not mean that I am very much... (break) Therefore, we have to prepare ourself what kind of body we are going to have next. That is human civilization. But they do not believe in the transmigration of the soul. They do not believe in God. They do not believe in anything. Simply just like animals. This life—eating, sleeping, mating—do it to your best capacity. That is Kali-yuga. They have no knowledge, neither they are interested to know. Mandāḥ. And even they become little interested of spiritual..., a hodgepodge, no clear idea. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo (SB 1.1.10). And unfortunate, harassed in every field of life. And hy upadrutāḥ. And over and above everything, they are always disturbed by external enemies. This is the position of Kali-yuga. And this life shortened, duration of life. So how they can advance by following the regular Vedic process? It is not possible. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).
Indian man (2): Yes, of course, that's what he is up to, that's what he is up to.
Guru dāsa: And if someone doubts that, then they're not strong followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Indian man (2): Yes. That is a great thing against him.
Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?
Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.
Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.
Indian man (2): From Gītā. No, not like that. I would say like Brindarkara(?) wanted to prove that the..., that Kṛṣṇa story and Kṛṣṇa religion had been borrowed from West, you see, and they are a copy of Christ religion. Mandakara has done that.(end)
Devotee: Oh!
Prabhupāda: Authorized. That people will refer to our books. So we have to very cautiously print our literatures. It is not ordinary literature, fiction, or something, story. Just like Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata. They are not ordinary. literature. Without any four defects of human frailties. Bhrama, pramāda, vipralipsa, also... We are following those literatures. So our writing should be so authorized that in future one may not find any fault, contradiction. We shall have to, cautiously. The ideas are given there now... In future of course, it requires that we shall increase (indistinct). But for the present, we have to push on this movement with positive, I mean to say, conviction, that here is God. God is neither dead, nor every one of you is God, nor is He imperson. God is a person and we give you His name, address, father's name, activities. Here is God. So, we have to (indistinct). So if you have got any doubt about it, then you cannot do it. If you have got any doubt that whether Kṛṣṇa is positive God or (indistinct) then you cannot do it. That is the first qualification. If you are yourself not convinced, how you can convince others? This is our propaganda. This is our mission. (indistinct). Whether you are all convinced on this point? That here is positive God. What is your opinion? So far I am concerned, I have no opinion, convinced. (laughter). Therefore, I am pushing on. It is a fact. I am pushing on because I am pushing on fact, not fiction. That much I am personally convinced. Whenever there is somebody says, "You believe". "No, I don't believe, it is fact." Any press reporter, that press reporter.
Prabhupāda: His father is a very big lawyer, and mother, father, both came to me Calcutta. Mother, after all mother, she was crying, that give me back my boy (laughter) . You can take away your boy. So anyway, they are very good gentlemen. So, but he has he's graduate in psychology. He's learned.
Sumati Morarjee: No, no, he's a very nice man. So I asked him just now, I'm running a school. I said you come and, uh, give lecture, mean some stories...
Prabhupāda: Why don't you give some fruits?
Sumati Morarjee: ...to the children. No, I will take this, you give me a piece of paper, can you?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not.
Sumati Morarjee: And I'll take this for the children.
Devotee: Isn't there some prasāda also, that's still out there in the...
Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara.
Śyāmasundara: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, we are opening here in America, one school for training small children to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, so I told Swamiji. This Girirāja to come to our school, and tell them all my political stories, and tell them make them (indistinct) and all that. I hope he has started.
Devotee: Yes.
Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: What is your name?
Sumati Morarjee: His name is Mr.Girish Joshi. He is from Dacca.
Prabhupāda: Oh, I see.
Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Now, in future, in Joshi family Lord Kṛṣṇa will appear as Kalki.
Sumati Morarjee: Oh, so here is Joshi.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is named there in the Bhāgavata, Viṣṇu Joshi. The father's name of Kalki is Viṣṇu Joshi, and He'll appear in Śambhala, Śambhala.
Prabhupāda: So the tail was hanging, so some naughty boys, they fixed up nails, you see? So when he got up, the whole tail gone, you see? But he could not understand. He went to the ball dance. So he's dancing, so everyone's seeing his tail, in this way. So he thought, "Oh, what is the matter?" He went to the mirror and he saw, "Oh, my tail is lost." (laughs) Then he came again in the ball dance and he was pushing everyone, just to show. And everyone was asking, "What is this? What is this?" "Oh, you do not know? This is latest fashion. This is latest fashion." Then all of them cut the tails. I think he had taken the idea, (Sanskrit). This is Sanskrit story, that (Sanskrit), or monkey, he lost his tail, and he began to advertise, "This is the latest fashion." So that ball-dancing without tail, that was, I remember, it is very enjoyable. They say that Charlie Chaplin is the student of Max Linder. He learned this funny play from Max Linder. So I knew Charlie Chaplin is an Englishman.
Prabhupāda: Just like in our childhood we were thinking a gramophone machine, how it can speak without a man? There must be a man within.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So everything comes to Śrīla Prabhupāda's..., that nice comment on the frog's philosophy, Dr. Frog. That is I think what's happening.
Jayatīrtha: Just like that man who was searching for the touchstone in the garbage heap (indistinct). How will I find a touchstone in the garbage heap? (indistinct) story on college campuses.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I put some posters in the campus for Long Beach engagement. Somebody was asking me, "What is this knowledge, transcendental knowledge?" "You should come and find out. Please come and find out."
Prabhupāda: Physics has nothing to do with spirit. (break) ...manufacture the subtle(?) parts of motorcar, easily you can go. So this rascal thinking this is advancement, says, "I am killing the soul. The soul is going to become a dog next life after riding motorcar." That is written, and they have no knowledge. But because you have advanced from bullock cart to motorcar, this is.... So rascal they are. They have no knowledge what is advancement. What is the time?
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is the first creature of this universe is Lord Brahmā, who has created the universe. First creature of this universe, the most intelligent person. How we can accept the nonsense that this has developed from stone? (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). Do you know this story?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). So there was a circle of friends. So all the friends conspired to make another friend bewildered. So they conspired that "As soon as you meet that gentleman you cry, 'Oh, here is a ghost! Here is a ghost! Here is a ghost!' " So all the friends, they come (indistinct), "Oh! You are dead, you are ghost, you are ghost!" So after ten times like that, he thought, "Have I become a ghost?" Then he became bewildered, "Whether really I have become ghost, I am dead?" He became puzzled. This is like that: "There was no human being, there was no human being," and all the rascals are now thinking whether this is right. This is cakra bhagavān (Sanskrit). If you make conspiracy, even the sane man will think himself that "I have become ghost."
Jayatīrtha: When I was in Chicago, the one section where the temple is close by, more than sixty percent of the people were heroin addicts in this one section. They were so much degraded. (indistinct conversation) I was reading in the newspaper that the astronauts that are going to the moon, they wanted to take wine with them, so that when they got to the moon they could celebrate their victory.
Prabhupāda: There is a story, (Sanskrit). One man said to his friend, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is also drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother is drinking." "Oh, she will also go to hell." "My brother is drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." In this way, the last fellow was, "Oh, everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. Why do you say hell? We shall live together and drink. Why do you call hell? This is heaven." (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: Rūpa Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi with passers-by)
Śyāmasundara: Could you tell us any stories about Rūpa Gosvāmī while we are sitting here, or any...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Rūpa Gosvāmī was a minister. So after retirement he, under the instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he came to Vṛndāvana.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Rūpa Gosvāmī. So formerly they were living under trees. That I have already described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Later on, when Jīva Gosvāmī constructed this temple, he is nephew and disciple, at that time Rūpa Gosvāmī also, he lived with his disciple. Actually, this temple belongs to Jīva Gosvāmī, and Rūpa Gosvāmī's temple is at...
Śyāmasundara: We saw it.
Prabhupāda: ...Govindajī.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Rejected?
Devotee (1): Yes, because a few years ago his family left him and his wife and children deserted him, and he... The wife told many stories about him that he was very, doing degraded things, and so everyone rejects him. And when he speaks to Indian people they reject. He irritates them. And also sometimes he is, it can be changed, but he is, he makes them irritated a little too much pride, but he can be changed because he's chanting so much. But he tries very, very hard. Only we have to get him to agree to chant. And now he has another wife and a child.
Prabhupāda: A child?
Devotee (1): A child. One boy was born just before we came here in August and he seems to be a devotee, the baby, because he, whenever you say, "Hare Kṛṣṇa," he smiles.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Why he's not married man?
Devotee (1): Another wife, second. He says it was a grave mistake because if we had come sooner (indistinct) So we're trying to engage him. Also this girl which you're going to initiate, she can speak a fair amount of Indonesian already, and she can help translation work (indistinct). That girl has a sister who also chants sixteen rounds and follows the rules. Though sometimes in her past she failed and stopped and she is not as steady. So I didn't recommend.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday's?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) This research work is kāma-karmabhiḥ. This, in the laboratory, research work, that is kāma-karmabhiḥ. They're planning something. That is kāma-karma. He, he does not take the planning of Kṛṣṇa. He makes his own plan. That is kāma-karma. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). In another place, it is said: When one is engaged in the matter of these unnecessary desires, he becomes lost of all intelligence. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). (pause) It is like the child's crying. The child is crying, asking mother: "Give me that moon." The mother gives a mirror. "Here is moon, my dear son." He takes the mirror. He sees the moon. "Oh, yes..." He has got the moon. It is not story. Now these rascals are going to the moon planet. Why they have stopped talking anymore?
Karandhara: Well, after spending all that money and taking a few rocks, they decided there's nothing more to do there.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, it is kept for future, or what?
Karandhara: I guess so.
Prabhupāda: Or they've finished their money. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. The same thing, that the rabbits close the eyes. Yes. Monkeys. And when the monkeys face a tiger, immediately he closes his eyes and the tiger immediately attacks him. So it is like that. He cannot solve the problem—"All right, let it go on." And that is the position. Because our real problem is death. Nobody wants to die. So the scientist cannot give any relief from death. They are talking simply superficially. They cannot give any relief from death. But my real problem is death. I do not wish to die. I do not wish to become old man. What scientists can help me? I do not wish to become diseased. What the scientist can help me? I do not wish to take birth. These things, they cannot do anything. Major problem they have set aside. And they are, what is called, jackal. Yes. There is a story of the jackal. He became the king of the forest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hindi
Prabhupāda: No, it is Sanskrit. And in Bengal it is called vane āsiyā rāja.(?) "In the forest a jackal has become king." They are like that. Nīla-varṇa-sṛigālavat.(?) When... There is big story about this jackal. I will tell you some. A jackal came in the village and he fell in the tub where, what is called, the water? No, no. The water man keeps the water for dipping, making little bluish. For coloring. That blue, blue. So the washerman kept the dye water in a big tub, and the jackal fell in it. So jackal fell in it; he became blue, all blue. So he fled away, and all the animals said, "What is this animal? What is the animal? What is that animal? Oh?" All, even lion became surprised. "We have not seen this." "So who are you, sir?" "I am sent by God to rule over you." "Oh?" So they began to worship him as God, as leader. Then one day other jackals, they were crying, "Wa, wa," but the jackals cannot stop. If others jackals cry, the jackal cannot stop. So he also began to "Wa, wa." Oh, then, they, oh, this rascal is a jackal. Yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. That these rascals are jackals. Now they are talking nonsense. We can detect that "Here is a jackal." So we have to expose them. They are not leader; they are jackals. So jackals cannot anymore rule over. That should be our propaganda. Not only scientific, all political things, social things, everything. They should be all kicked out. They should be replaced by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then people will be happy. This should be our program. Our, this propaganda means to make people happy. It is not a business, to make business and take some money. And so many jackals have been arrested and resigned in your... You know that? Many jackals have been obliged to resign their post in the government.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Research means you admit that you are all fools and rascals. Research meant for whom? Who does not know. Otherwise where is the question of research? You do not know. You admit that. So so many mystic powers are there. You do not know how it is being done. Therefore you have to accept inconceivable power. And without accepting this principle of inconceivable power, there is no meaning of God. Not like that Bala-yogī became a God. So these are for the rascals, fools. But those who are intelligent, they will stress the inconceivable power. Just like we accept Kṛṣṇa as God—inconceivable power. We accept Rāma—inconceivable power. Not so cheaply. One rascal comes and says, "I am incarnation of God." Another rascal accepts. It is not like that. "Ramakrishna is God." We do not accept. We must see the inconceivable mystic power. Just like Kṛṣṇa, as a child, lifted a hill. This is inconceivable mystic power. Rāmacandra, He constructed a bridge of stone without pillar. The stone began to float: "Come on." So that is an inconceivable power. And because you cannot adjust this inconceivable power, when they are described, you say, "Oh, these are all stories." What is called? Mythology. But these great, great sages, Vālmīki and Vyāsadeva and other ācāryas, they simply wasted their time in writing mythology? Such learned scholars? And they have not interpreted that it is mythology. They have accepted it as actual fact. There was forest fire. All the friends and cowherd boys, they became disturbed. They began to see towards Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa, what to do?" "All right." He simply swallowed up the whole fire.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.
Devotee: I tried to find a plate. There's no... Should I leave it here?
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.
Guest (3): So so many stories he had memorized, and he started writing and asking many questions, Prabhupāda, so I'm not... But he has got the talent that if he'll get the right guidance and all this, he can easily translate Mahābhārata, many stories in the book shape, in different articles, which can very much help in our movement.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): And for six weeks, seven weeks, his holidays he can remain.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you remain here.
Guest (3): Remain here. Then how he can develop it? So now you are quite free in next... All right? And he has memorized almost all your bhajana, everything.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Prabhupāda: So you give... Yes. That is the... The only difference is that in human form of life you can awaken your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the animal form... Here we are sitting with all human form of life, gentlemen, civilized men. I cannot call cats and dogs and sit here, and to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is not possible. Therefore this opportunity should be given. This opportunity should be given. And especially, you are English nation, recognized, great nation, respectful, you are respected... Especially in India, we have got very good respect for English nation. We had connection for so many years. And the politicians, they spoiled. Otherwise, the, I, we liked the British Empire, means unity of the human being all over the world. That can be revived again. That can be revived again. If you come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, your Queen comes to that,... There is process. There is process. You can revive your British Empire. It is not story. If you people take little advice from me, I can help you. Yes. You are intelligent nation. So kindly do this service to the students and awaken their dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be a great service. And we are meant for helping you all. So you can inquire. You are at liberty to come at any time and inquire.
Yogeśvara: Then he made the point that in a place like India it's foolish where so many people are dying of starvation, not to kill the cow on some religious principle.
Prabhupāda: That is another story. No Indians are dying, not by eating cow's flesh. That, that is the theory at the present moment given. But there are so many vegetarians in India. They do not touch even fish, or eggs, or animal flesh. They're quite healthy. It does not mean...
Yogeśvara: I think his answer would be that vegetarianism is reserved to the rich people who can afford it. That if you're poor, you have to eat whatever you can get.
Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable. Yes.
Yogeśvara: He said now in India meat is selling at a higher price than vegetables.
Prabhupāda: That is no logic.
Yogeśvara: Not logic.
Prabhupāda: What does he know about Earth? His knowledge is not sufficient. He, he's speaking like a woman who saw in the marketplace in the morning thousands of people have gathered, and she began to cry: "Where I shall give place to these men?" So her son came: "My dear mother, don't cry. You come in the evening. We shall find some solution." So when she came in the evening, there was nobody.
Yogeśvara: You can translate that story? (French) (to Prabhupāda:) She went there to buy her foodstuffs?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Yogeśvara: (French)
Prabhupāda: So you are thinking in that way. "How I shall provide this population?" That is the old woman's crying. Without sufficient knowledge. We do not believe in this, all rascaldom. We believe in God. If God can create... just like animals. They do not cry. They're increasing. The hogs and dogs, even lower animals... This is demonic economy. A man is holding thousands of acres of land and he's thinking of overpopulation. Why not he distributes the thousands of acres of land to the people? They would produce their own food. That is the, that is the defect of so-called socialism. But here we give a right type of socialism.
Prabhupāda: No, it is... We do not do anything which is not in śāstra. So this Jābāla Upaniṣad, this Satyakāma Jābāla, he went to Gautama Muni for initiation. So Gautama Muni asked him, "Who is your father?" He replied that he did not know. "So ask your mother." The mother was asked also. She said, "No, I do not know." He came to Gautama Muni and said that, "My father's name is neither known to my mother nor to me."
Professor: Yes, yes. I know this story.
Prabhupāda: Then he accepted that "You are a brāhmaṇa," because he is talking truth.
Professor: The truth, satyam.
Prabhupāda: That is the sign.
Professor: The sign. It's a well-known story.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, by birth, a brāhmaṇa is not made. By character.
Professor: Yes, I agree with that. And what about girls? Do you initiate girls? Or not?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Professor: Do you initiate girls?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So many girls. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim.
Professor: That's...
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. Give him, Paṇḍita Mahāśaya.
Prabhupāda: We are therefore going to Kṛṣṇa—to taste lugdu with him. Lugdu, kachorī... From that Kṛṣṇa Book... You can find out that picture.
Yogeśvara: Find out the picture.
Prabhupāda: How Kṛṣṇa is enjoying lugdu with His friends.
Professor: Yes.
Yogeśvara: He's taking lunch.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're taking lunch, and Brahmā is playing trick.
Yogeśvara: You know the story?
Professor: Of what?
Yogeśvara: Lord Brahmā stole away all of Kṛṣṇa's cows and...
Professor: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa again expanded Himself into so many cows, calves, friends. Then Brahmā thought that he is defeated.
Prabhupāda: You'll find so many demons like Pūtanā even at the present moment.
David Lawrence: So one could leap from behind a tree, putting it tritely if you like.
Prabhupāda: The, the Bhāgavatam, there is nothing... well, there are some figurative use. Just like we speak the story of Aesop's fables. That is for instruction. Just like jackal is talking with a lion. You see? So, there are stories like that.
David Lawrence: Yes, there are figurative stories.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: I mean, one or two of the stories there's a reference to Kṛṣṇa and the unmarried gopīs, saying that He treated them like dolls yet they were well pleased with Him. Now, would it be right to say that the main point of that story, rather than...
Prabhupāda: Dolls?
David Lawrence: Yes, it says He treated them rather like dolls. It's your own translation on that one. But they were well pleased with Him. Is the point of the story...
Prabhupāda: Dolls, dolls means just like doll-player, they make the dolls dance. It is like that.
Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.
Guest (1): You didn't see the high commissioner there. He sat down.
Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.
Guest (1): Maybe some pious activities that they have.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): But this is their duty to respect.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...in this planet. In order to be elevated to the kingdom of God, they cannot go directly from the heavenly planet. They'll have to come here.
Guest (1): There are many stories in Mahābhārata. Many, many kings, they went to heavenly planets and from there. Many stories.
Prabhupāda: Kṣīṇe puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). You have got prasāda? Not yet. Come on. Any more? Any more? Another? Come on. (end)
Prabhupāda: Then... (break) ...We have not very many followers because we disagree with all rascals. We are not rascal. (break) Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na sāntāya (?). Mūrkha upadeśa... (Hindi) If you give some lessons to the rascal, he becomes angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you ask a serpent, "Sir, you don't bite anyone, you take your here, milk, (indistinct)," the result will be he'll increase his venomous poison, and one day—"Phansss." (Sound imitating biting) You know the story? The kuta..., (?) the wood-cutter and the snake. He found a snake... Snake, if it is not killed, then if you simply beat and becomes dead, again he revives life. You know that?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: In Juhu there are many men. Juhu people are not coming here. Similarly, these people will not go there. But at Juhu there are many men. So in Bombay, in any part of Bombay, itself a big city, any part of Bombay. But where we are getting such big land in the city? That is 20,000 square yards. And on the Juhu Beach. For this facility, yes. And a new town is growing here. You have been in Juhu?
Banker: I used to live there. Beach house.
Gargamuni: That big white house, that six story high building right on the beach, he used to live there.
Prabhupāda: How do you like that place?
Banker: Very much. Quiet, peaceful. After a day of work in the bank it's a very nice place to retreat to.
Prabhupāda: Now, they were coming from Juhu to bank. So where is the difficulty? Such responsible officer, bank manager, they are coming and going, and you sannyāsīs cannot come and go? He has got responsible duties, he has to arrive in the office exactly in time.
Banker: It's thirty-three minutes by train from Churchgate to Juhu.
Gargamuni: But now he's not staying there. He's staying in town.
Banker: That's only because I'm going to New York next week. Only reason.
Prabhupāda: That is not other reason. There are many officers of your bank might be living there?
Prabhupāda: They are not interested. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They clearly says that "What this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or saṅkīrtana will do?" They says, yes. (laughs) They have become so dull. The Bhagavad-gītā, the culture of India, they have forsaken. They are now taking culture from Russia. Yes. This is the advancement of education. They are taking instruction from Lenin than from Kṛṣṇa. This is the position. Especially in India. Outside India they are interested, so many European, American, Western countries' boys and girls, they have joined and sacrificed their life. But in India they are callous. They think that "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? We know that. It is very old story. Now we want technology."
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Śyāmasundara: ...to read while she was sitting for him for the sculpture.
Prabhupāda: So it has come to her attention.
Śyāmasundara: I think he has told that story to several people and the word has spread.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Brahmānanda: Where did you hear it from?
Prabhupāda: Anyway, that, our, our architect, that...
Brahmānanda: Surabhi. Oh, Mr. Lahiri.
Prabhupāda: He has seen in the Jugantar Press.
Śyāmasundara: It was in the newspaper here in India. (laughter) She did! She read it one day for three hours, four hours.
Brahmānanda: You're kidding!
Prabhupāda: And the latest report is that Bhagavad-gītā is selling fifteen thousand copies per month in London. Who told me? Thirty-thousand copies sold in two months.
Paramahaṁsa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Rascal means that... You know the story, that Kālidāsa, a great poet, he was a great rascal. So... It is a long story. So he was sitting on the branch of a tree and cutting. So some gentleman: "Why you are cutting? You'll fall down." "No, no, I'll not fall down." But when he fell down, then he went to that gentleman, "How did you know, sir, that I shall fall down?" Then they concluded, "Here is a rascal number one." (laughter) "Here is a rascal number one." They do not know that they are going to hell. That is rascaldom. By their so-called scientific advancement, philosophy, education, they are going to hell. That they do not know. Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. This is the definition of rascaldom: one who does not know where he is going. If somebody goes in this way straight, and you say "Don't go!" "No! Why shall I not go?" He's rascal. (laughter) He's rascal. And the another rascal, "Yes, yes, you can go, it is all right." Yata mata tata patha. "As many ways you manufacture, it is all right. You can go this way." He's another rascal. This is going on.
Dr. Wolfe: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they would say that that is braveness. they are brave in trying again and again.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must say. That is their rascaldom. One who goes, braveness, go to the Pacific Ocean and die, and go to hell. That is their braveness. That is their braveness. They are bravely going to hell. That's all. There is a story, palavarne boi nate(?). One man is chasing another man. So the man who is chased, he's asked, "Why you are fleeing away, fleeing away?" So, "Am I afraid of you? Why shall I not flee? Why shall not go? Am I afraid of you." He's fleeing out of fear, but still, he says, "Am I afraid of you? Am I afraid of you? Why shall I not? Why shall I stop?" This is the position. "Bravely I am going to hell. Why shall I stop? I am brave." This is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are planning to go to Mars now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is another bluff. Another bluff. The smaller plan, they could not make successful. Now they're attempting bigger plan. Bara bara goragere rasatala, beta gora katha jala.(?) Betagor... There is a story that there was river. You know, horse can swim over. So big, big stalwart horses, they waved, mean, they washed away by the flood. So one lean and thin horse is coming, "Can you tell me how much water is there?" It is like bara bara goragere rasatala, beta gora katha jala. (?) So these rascals could not reach even the moon planet; now they are planning to the Mars planet. Just see. And another rascal will believe him. That, What you have done for the, which is the nearest planet?
Karandhara: Well, they say they've done everything they wanted to do with the moon. They say they've accomplished everything they wanted to on the moon.
Prabhupāda: So you are not successful. That's a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: "New frontier of knowledge."
Prabhupāda: Yes, because the new frontier of knowledge for the rascals not for the intelligent men. They're... The same example. If somebody imitates barking of the dog, if he says, "This is new frontier of knowledge," so a foolish man can believe that "How you have learned to bark like dog! Oh, great advancement." But an intelligent man says "What is the use of this barking, imitation barking? There is already dogs who are barking." Just like there is a... It is a fact, not story. One man, he went out of his village, and after ten years, he came back, advertised himself that "I have become successful in yoga practice." So naturally villagers surrounded him. "Oh, you have...? What yoga practice you have learned?" "I can walk on the water." "Oh?" Actually, even at the present moment, if somebody comes and says, "I can walk...," many people will come, thousands of men. So when everything, arrangement was that he'll cross the river, walking on the water, one old man came. He said, "Sir, it is very wonderful, but it is two paise worth. Two paise worth." "Why?" "Now, you will walk and go the other side; I'll take a boat, pay him two paise. I'll do the same thing. So what is your credit?" So those who are actually intelligent men, they will take like that, that "What actual profit you have made? You have spent millions and millions of dollars, and you say, 'Now, we have seen in the moon there is a crack.' " So this bluffing to the public must be stopped. They're squandering money, public money, and we Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we cannot do our activities for want of money. They have become so fools. How they are squandering money simply by bluffing another set of rascals that they are advancing in scientific knowledge. They are rascals, and they're cheating other rascals that they're advancing. And result is they're squandering public money. What do you think, Mr. Scientist?
Govardhana: You are just like the reservoir of mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No mercy reservoir is Kṛṣṇa, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We have to abide by his orders. That's all. Real mercy is Kṛṣṇa's. (break)
Prajāpati: ...in the Bible, there's a story of how some cities named Sodom and Gomorraḥ became so sinful that the Lord wanted to destroy those cities and everyone in them. Will this be happening again sometime, cities become so sinful, they will be just destroyed?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Destruction means sinful. If you become sinful, your body will be destroyed. You'll die out of some disease. Sinful means destruction.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Self-destruction.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Self-destruction.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate... (BG 8.19) (break) ...if somebody dies out of Kṛṣṇa's anger, he also goes to Vaikuṇṭha.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: Shivananda, I gave a lecture at an āśrama where his disciple was teaching, Vishnu Devananda. So he told a story how Shivananda, he would find out the lowest class of people, and he would go and garland them and worship them just like the Deity. And so his argument was that in Bhagavad-gītā it says, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Prabhupāda: Why he is to the lower class? Sama-darśinaḥ means he is equal to higher or lower. Why he is going to the lower? He could not answer this? Sama-darśinaḥ, equal. Then he must be equal to the lower and the higher. So why he is particularly to the lower class? Then he is not sama-darśinaḥ.
Hṛdayānanda: Then his argument would be that he is trying to teach a lesson that the higher...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may say nonsense. The fact is this. That if he is sama-darśinaḥ, equal, then why he is particularly aiming to the lower class? That means he is not sama-darśinaḥ. He has not come to the stage. He is simply talking nonsense. Sama-darśinaḥ means he is equal to everyone. That is sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ does not mean to get a cheap adoration, popularity, I go to the poor. That is their Ramakrishna Mission. They also are doing that same thing. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, like that. Why daridra? Why not real Nārāyaṇa? Just like this morning we read nārāyaṇa-pade. Never said daridra-nārāyaṇa-pade. To the great. Surrender does not mean to the lower. Does it mean surrender? Surrender, this relationship means that to whom I surrender, he is greater than me. And to the lower, mercy. These two words. One who is lower than me, I may show my mercy, but one who is greater than me, there is the question of surr... (break) (end)
| Page Title: | Story (Conversations 1967 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=82, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 82 |