This attraction for Kṛṣṇa can be developed in the association of devotees, satāṁ prasaṅgāt. Automatically, nobody's attracted for Kṛṣṇa. The whole world is like that. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to give these people a chance to associate with devotees and thus become attracted to Kṛṣṇa. That is required. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. Mayy āsakta, to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means attractive, Kṛṣṇa. Akasatira-śakti. Kṛṣṇa means attractive. Just like magnetic stone, attractive, naturally the iron... But the iron, if it is rusty, it cannot attract. It cannot attract. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is attractive, and we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We are also attracted by Kṛṣṇa. But because we are now covered by the māyā rust, we are not attracted. This māyā rust has to be polished; then you'll be attracted. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is attractive. Kṛṣṇa means attractive.
Stone (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Just like we are worshiping the form of Rādhā-Govinda, Rādhā-Mādhava, Rādhā-Dāmodara. So this form, atheists will say that "This is statue." But a theist person, who knows Kṛṣṇa, he will see this form of Kṛṣṇa not different from the original person, Kṛṣṇa. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered the Jagannātha temple, He immediately fainted, "Here is My Lord." Others who are going in the Jagannātha temple, they are seeing something made of wood. Therefore śāstra forbids, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhir sa eva narakaḥ. Arcye śilā-dhīr. Arca-mūrti, the form worshiped in the temple, if somebody thinks it is made of wood, it is made of stone, that is nārakī-buddhiḥ. No devotee will say. Only the nondevotee, atheist class of men will say it, that "They are worshiping wood. They are worshiping stone." But a devotee knows that His worshipable Lord is present here personally. It is a question of revising, of reforming this perception. The whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is reforming or purifying the senses.
There is a nice example in this connection. In the pond, reservoir of water, if you drop one stone, it becomes a circle. The circle increases, increasing, increasing... Unless it comes to the shore, the circle increases. Similarly, our loving propensity increases. In the primary stage, a child whatever he gets, he puts into his mouth. Anna-brahman. Then gradually, as the child grows, sometimes he distributes to his other brother or parents, the love increases. In this way, self-centered, then family-centered, then community-centered, society-centered, nation-centered, international centered... So this increase of our loving propensity will not be satisfied unless it reaches the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We love. The loving propensity is there. Even we have no family... Sometimes we keep pets, cats and dogs, to love.
When you give up, become brahma bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—"I am nothing of this; I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa"—when you come to this consciousness, you will see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always there. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa. A devotee's seeing factual Kṛṣṇa, and nondevotee's seeing a brass doll. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is here. Why they say, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa?" Here is Kṛṣṇa. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he challenged Prahlāda Mahārāja, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? All right, let me kill you. Let your God come and protect you." So the atheist class, they say like that. But one who has got training in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has got eyes to see Kṛṣṇa always. If here is not Kṛṣṇa, then all the ācāryas, they installed Deity in so many millions of temples, they're all fools and rascals? They ask us to worship some stone and wood? No. Kṛṣṇa is there, but we haven't got eyes to see. That is the difference. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as He saw Jagannātha at Purī, Jagannātha at..., immediately fainted: "Here is My Lord." Fainted.
The example is just like there is air vibration, water vibration, the radio message. In one place, the vibration is made, and it goes like waves. It expands. Very quickly, within a second, it expands seven times the earth, so far we have heard. Or if you throw one stone on the lake, they'll become a circle, circle, and the circle expands, unless it goes to the limit. So our loving propensity is there, and it should expand. Ultimately it should reach the lotus feet of the Lord. Then it will be perfect. So this is being explained.
Why you should think yourself as Hindu? Why you should think of others who have come from America as American? That is less intelligent. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta... Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If one thinks of Vaiṣṇava as belonging to this class, this nation, he has no vision. Nārakī. That is called nārakī-buddhiḥ. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ arcye śilādhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. If we think the Deity as made of stone and made of wood, arcye śilā-dhīr; guruṣu, nara-matiḥ, if we accept spiritual master as ordinary human being; vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, and if we take a Vaiṣṇava as belonging to America or Europe or India... No. They are transcendental. Neither the Deity in the temple is stone, neither the spiritual master is ordinary human being, nor the Vaiṣṇava belongs to any caste. This vision is perfect vision. When you come to this vision, that is bhakti. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. A bhakta has to become purified. Tat-paratvena, being dovetailed with the service of tat, om tat sat. Tat-param. This is the process of devotional service. One should not be designated "I am this," "I am that," "I am that." No. The world should unite. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that one should forget that he's Indian or Hindu or Christian or American or Indian. Everything should unite as servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti-mārga. Unfortunately, they distinguish between American Vaiṣṇava and Indian Vaiṣṇava: brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava, śūdra Vaiṣṇava. No. A Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Viṣṇur asya devataḥ iti vaiṣṇava. One who has accepted Viṣṇu as "my Lord," he has no designation. A Vaiṣṇava has no such distinction.
This means every living entity has got a little independence. Kṛṣṇa, or God, does not interfere with that independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru. At the last, also, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "You do it." Kṛṣṇa can instruct us, "You do it." If I don't do it, that is my option. That option is always there. Kṛṣṇa does not oblige me. Otherwise, what is the difference between me and the stone? The stone has no independence. But I am a living entity; I have got my independence. So do you... Kṛṣṇa does not interfere with my independence. Voluntarily, if we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, voluntarily if we serve Him, then our life is successful. Voluntarily. Hitvā anyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). We can become immediately liberated if we give up our designated post. If we simply come to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately we become liberated. So many sages and saintly persons are trying to become liberated, mukta, to merge into the existence of impersonal Brahman. But because they have no information of Kṛṣṇa, or they do not like to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, they fall down. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32).
Therefore a bhakta, Vaiṣṇava, Vaiṣṇava should not be considered that he's coming from European group or this group or that group. No. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Vaiṣṇava should not be considered belonging to any jāti. Vaiṣṇave, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-mati. Just like we worship Deity. Everyone knows that Deity is made of stone, but do we worship the stone? Do we construct so big, big temples for worshiping a piece of stone? No. Unless one has got this connection, that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Sākṣād brajendra-nandana..." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw Jagannātha Temple and immediately fainted. He saw sākṣād brajendra-nandana Hari, Kṛṣṇa, immediately. So we have to learn how to see Vaiṣṇava and Viṣṇu. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That means we have to purify our senses. Then we can see Kṛṣṇa always.
Pradyumna: "There are many instances, especially in India, where these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs descend to the material platform again. But a person who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness will never return to any sort of material platform. However alluring and attracting they may be, he always knows that no material welfare activities can be compared with the spiritual activity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The mystic perfections achieved by actually successful yogis are eight in number. Aṇimā-siddhi refers to the power by which one can become so small that he can enter into a stone. Modern scientific improvements also enable us to enter into stone because they provide for excavating so many subways, penetrating the hills, etc. So aṇimā-siddhi, the mystic perfection of trying to enter into stone, has also been achieved by material science. Similarly, all of the yoga siddhis, or perfections, are material arts."
Prabhupāda: Yoga siddhis, they are simply material arts. Just like one example is given, that aṇimā siddhi, aṇimā siddhi means to enter into the stone. So we see in the Western countries they are boring big, big hills and entering in the stone. So that aṇimā siddhi is being possible, is made possible by modern scientific research. So all the siddhis, aṣṭa siddhi, aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, prākāmya, īśitā, vaśitā, these all siddhis are material. They are not spiritual. But people do not know what is spiritual perfection. They become amazed by seeing some magic by these yogic arts. They're simply material arts.
Artificially practiced, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible. There is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti 'sadhya' kabhu naya. It is not by the practice, but following certain methods... Just like sex impulse is there already in everyone's heart. When there is opportunity, it becomes awakened. It is not that artificially a dull stone can be awakened in sex impulse. No. In a human being, or animal, a living being, there is sex impulse, but it becomes awakened in favorable circumstances. Similarly, if we keep ourself in favorable circumstances, that means bhakta-sane vāsa, living with pure devotees, without any material desires, then the Vṛndāvana... Living in Vṛndāvana—what is the meaning of living...? Because bhakta-sane vāsa. Here, whatever comes, he comes for the purpose of developing devotional attitude. Not for any... Here nobody comes for making business or making money. If anyone comes, he makes offense, dhāma-aparādha. Dhāma-aparādha. It is called... There are many kinds of dhāma-aparādha, nāma-aparādhas, sevā-aparādha. There are aparādhas, offenses. That will be described in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So here, in Vṛndāvana-dhāma, nobody should make any business. Nobody should try to satisfy his senses in Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Then his living in Vṛndāvana-dhāma will be profitable. Of course, anyone living in Vṛndāvana-dhāma, he is fortunate because the dhāma itself has its own power. But ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Similarly, if we live in the dhāma in ānukūla way, favorable way, then our achievement of ultimate success is very easy. If we commit offenses, it will be delayed. But still, anyone, some way or other, who is living in Vṛndāvana, sticking to the dust of Vṛndāvana, he is certainly benefited.
Therefore one, one who, even coming from low-grade family, if he has become Vaiṣṇava, then he's no longer in the worldly society. He's transcendental. Brahmā-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). One who is engaged in pure devotional service, he's in the Brahman platform. He should not be neglected. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, arcye śilā-dhīr, guruṣu nara-mati, vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. These are warned. One should not consider the Deity as made of stone, arcye śilā-dhīr. Śālagrāma-śilā. If somebody says, "What is this, a stone chip, or stone ball?" No. These are warned in the śāstra. Vaiṣṇave... Ja... Similarly, to consider a Vaiṣṇava as belonging to certain caste is as abominable as to think that the Deity is made of stone. Everyone knows it is made of stone. But are we worshiping the stone? We are spending so much money for decorating stone? No. Because we have no eyes to see, we see stone. Kṛṣṇa is not stone. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can appear in any way, any form, as He likes. That is His mercy. Because we cannot see except stone. Similarly, therefore He appears as stone. But He's not stone. If we think that it is stone, then we are gone to hell. You see. No. Arcye śilā-dhīr. Similarly Vaiṣṇava. A Vaiṣṇava should not be considered that "Here is American Vaiṣṇava," or "brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava," and "śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. There is no more distinction. Just like Ganges water. So many sewage ditches, water coming, mixing in Calcutta. Everyone knows. But nobody says, "Oh, it is Chhitergar Paper Mills sewage water."
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So tvāṁ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ. Parama means highest class superiority which is not possible for ordinary men. They take it as miracle or something, a story or allegory. But actually it is not. Just like when Lord Rāmacandra appeared, He made a bridge between India and Ceylon. There is no history in the world that one has made bridge over the ocean, Indian Ocean. And how the bridge was made? Not in the present, modern way, that making concrete on the ground and then pillars and then... No. The stones were floating. The Rāmacandra assistants, all the monkeys, what kind of engineers are they? They could bring, order, "Bring some stone." They had very good health. What is that? Gorilla. So they brought big, big stones, and they began to float. Now, one may inquire or may question, "How stone can float?" Why stone cannot float? If this big, big lump of matter, earthly planet and other planets, they are floating in the air, why the stone cannot float? If God likes, it will float. That is God desire.
That is the defect of this age, Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayaḥ, sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ. Because they are moving, but not very rapidly... The real purpose of movement is svārtha-gatim, Viṣṇu. That they do not know. They do not know. The materialistic world, at the present moment, that they do not know that where the movement should terminate, where is the destination. That they do not know. Na te svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum, na te viduḥ. Na te. Not only in this age, that is the state of material life. Those who are passing in materialistic way of life, they are thinking that sense gratification is the ultimate goal of life, indriya-prītaye. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. They have become mad, pramattaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma. Movement means we are doing something, not inactive, just like stone. (break) But we are doing something. That is called movement. But what kinds of activities we are doing? Because we are madness—we are mad after sense gratification... Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma means things which we should not do. Karma means prescribed duties, and vikarma means actions which are not prescribed, whimsical, simply for sense gratification. That is called vikarma. Karma, vikarma, akarma. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He does not accept this mayic body. Etad īśanam īśasya. That is the, I mean to say, power, omnipotency of Kṛṣṇa. Even He accepts this material body, it does not mean that He is material. Just like we see the Deity, the Deity, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity, in our front. Everyone will say, "Oh, this is a Deity made of brass, material." But no, it is not material. You have to study in that way. Arcye viṣṇu śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. These are nārakī buddhi. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity as material, śiladhiḥ, considering as metal or stone or wood, and guruṣu nara-matiḥ, and guru as ordinary human being. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ: a Vaiṣṇava, to consider, "Here is American Vaiṣṇava and here is a brāhmaṇa vaiṣṇava." No, Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. This is absolute. Guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guru, although he is appearing like human being, he should not be considered. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān nāvamanyeta karhicit (SB 11.17.27). These are the injunction of the śāstras. Suppose we are worshiping here.
That is up to you. We... (break) ...vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, arcye śilā-dhīr. Everyone knows in the temple... Just like Jagannātha. Everyone knows Jagannātha is made of wood, or, in other temple, made of stone. But people, do they come to see wood and stone? So if anyone thinks... Sometimes the atheist class, they think that "These foolish men, they are going to see a piece of wood." This is nārakī-buddhi. Similarly, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Those who are acting as guru according to the description, if somebody thinks that "This man is ordinary person," and vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, similarly caraṇamṛta, Gaṅgajala, if somebody thinks ordinary water, so "he's nārakī." So these Europeans, Americans who are properly initiated according to Vaiṣṇava system, according to Caitanya Mahāprabhu's indication, if somebody thinks their jāti, angrej jāti or American jāti, he's nārakī. What can be done?
So the karmīs are too much attached with the asad-dharma, total, cent percent. And the jñānīs, they are little intelligent, that... Jñānī means "I have tried so much to be happy with the bodily comforts, but it has not become possible." Then he tries to understand "Whether I am this body or something else?" That is Vedic injunction, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. When he is actually liberated he understands that "I am not this body." So he tries to get rid of this bodily conception of life, but because he has no information of the ultimate goal of life, he thinks that "If I merge with the Supreme, then my life is successful." But that is also asad-dharma, because this impersonal understanding will not help him because he is person. Every one of us, we are person. We cannot stay on the impersonal platform. That is not possible. Artificially if we try to stay on the impersonal platform, it will not stay. Then we shall fall down again. Just like this moon excursion or the Mars. They do not get actually shelter there; therefore they fall down again, come here. With some stone and sand, they are satisfied. Because they did not get any shelter, they fall down.
Somebody is thinking in some way... The central point was Kṛṣṇa. I have already explained that, that Kṛṣṇa was going to the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home, they were thinking that "Kṛṣṇa's foot is so soft and so delicate," and that "We dare not to take His feet on our breast, but He is now walking in the fields, pasturing ground, naked without any... And the stones pricking. How much He is feeling pain." Thinking this, they became fainted. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended ramyā kācid upāsanā. These gopīs, they were not supposed to be educated. Village girls—who is giving them education? They are not Ph.D.'s. But still, strong desire for Kṛṣṇa. And that is called yeṣāṁ nirbandhinī matiḥ. Nirbandhinī, strong desire. It doesn't require any other price to become advanced in..., simply to become very strongly eager, laulyam. Then life is successful.
So we can also have Kṛṣṇa like that. That is Kṛṣṇa's pastime, that... You are thinking of God as nirākāra, without any form: "He cannot be touched. He cannot be embraced. He cannot be talked." No. Kṛṣṇa, personally being present, He was talking with His devotees, dealing just like ordinary human being. But the devotees knew Him, that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Only the nondevotees... Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Those who are nondevotees, still now... Just like we are worshiping here Kṛṣṇa in this temple. The others, nondevotees, rascals, they will think that "These fools are worshiping a stone statue." They will think like that. They are very learned scholar, so they think that "These are fools. They have accepted a stone statue. Everyone knows that here Kṛṣṇa is made of stone, so why these fools are spending so much money, lakhs and crores, for having a temple for this stone statue? This is their foolishness." Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).
He's the only worshipable personality. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam: "And as Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly His place of pastimes, Vṛndāvana-dhāma, is also worshipable." Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanaya tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. And what is the best kind of worship for Kṛṣṇa? Now, ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇa yā-kalpitā: "The highest kind of worship is as demonstrated by the damsels of Vṛndāvana, the girlfriends of Kṛṣṇa." Yes. They had no adulteration. Simply they were always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is going outside of the village, and they were thinking at home, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa's," I mean to say, "sole is so soft. How He's wandering in the jungle? There are so many particles of stone. Must be pricking." In this way. Kṛṣṇa is there; they are at home, but they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how He's walking, how His soft foot is suffering. In this way they are always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are not Vedantists. They are not brāhmaṇas. They are not educated. They were cowherds girls. But their love of Kṛṣṇa was so intense that Lord Caitanya recommends, "Oh, there is no better worship than, than it was being demonstrated by the damsels of Vṛndāvana." Ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā. Then what is the source of understanding Kṛṣṇa? Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalaṁ purāṇam. If you study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, then you attain all these things. Śrī-caitanya-mahaprabhor matam idam. And premā pumartho mahān.
Now, Brahmā's description is given here, that bhāsvān yathāśma-sakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ. Just like valuable stone... The example is very nice, valuable stone, just like diamond. Diamond has got power to illuminate. And what is this diamond? The diamond is made by the interaction of sunshine. All these valuable stones, they are products of sunshine. So as the diamond has got power of shining power, it is derived from the sun, or diamond, the moon also, it derives power from the sun, similarly, Brahmā, although he is very powerful, he is known as creator of this universe, but he is just like diamond. He inherits power from the Supreme Lord, so he becomes powerful. Bhāsvān yathāśma-sakaleṣu nijeṣu tejaḥ. That is simply a bit of power. Just like a diamond, diamond also illuminating, but it is not original luminous. Original luminous is sun, and the illumination expanded by diamond is not so valuable as the sunshine. Similarly, Brahmā, although we see him so powerful, he has little power derived from the Supreme Lord. That is the example given here.
The first thing is that avatāra, incarnation, He hasn't got this material body. The first symptom is... And still, the avatāra appears before us. Because, so far our senses are concerned, we can see the material objects. We can see a stone. We can see, I mean to say, wood. We can see water. We cannot see even air, the finer material things. We cannot see mind. We know that mind is there in every soul, every body. Every one of us has got mind, but we cannot see. We cannot see the sky. So the..., in the material world also, there are so many finer things which we cannot see. And what to speak of spiritual? So that spiritual, Supreme Spirit, when He appears before us, seeable, so that we can see, so that is His mercy. That is His mercy. Because we cannot see even the soul within ourself; we are seeing only the body. So what to speak of the Supreme Spirit? That is not possible. Yasyāvatāra jñāyante śarīriṣv aśarīriṇaḥ. Therefore it is the inconceivable power that the incarnation of God appears before us.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
"I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is the cause of all causes. He is in the cintāmaṇi-dhāma." Cintāmaṇi-dhāma means the place which is not made of earth and stone, but they are made of touchstone. Most probably you have heard the name of touchstone. Touchstone can turn iron into gold. So the Lord's abode is made of touchstone, cintāmaṇi. There are houses... As we have got our experience here in this world that houses are made of bricks, there, in the transcendental world, the houses are made of this cintāmaṇi stone, touchstone. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa (Bs. 5.29). There are also trees, but those trees are not like this tree. The trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa. Here you can take one kind of fruit from one tree, but there, from the trees you can ask anything, and you get it because those trees are all spiritual. That is the difference between matter and spirit. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa lakṣā-vṛteṣu (Bs. 5.29). Such kind of trees, there are many, not one or two.
But in the Vedic scripture you have got perfect knowledge, how a living entity is developing different types of body. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. First of all, nine lakhs' species of living entities within water. In the water, the living seeds are there. The other day I was showing our other devotees how from the stone the grass is coming. There is a crack in the stone, and the grass is coming out. How it is? Nobody has gone to put some seeds within the cracking of the stone. How the grass is coming? The grass is coming because the water penetrates within the crack, and as soon as it gets in touch with the earth, it sprouts. That means within water there are seeds of living entities. Some of them fall down from the higher planetary system. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: kṣine puṇye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). As soon as their period of enjoyment is finished, they are again brought down on this earthly planet. Just like in your country the immigration—every country—the immigration department, if somebody has come, he has got a visa for six months or one year, or something like that.
It is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. If one does not expend his money for yajña, then he is to be understood... Just like there is many, many instances... Just like you have earned so much money. If you hide income tax, then you are criminal. You can say, "I have earned money. Why shall I pay income tax, government?" No. You must pay. And there is a limit, that if you have earned so much money, practically the whole money will be taken as income tax, super tax. So as everything you earn, it is the property of the government, similarly, why not everything, whatever you got, it is Kṛṣṇa's or God's? Is it very difficult to understand? Actually it is so. Suppose you have constructed a very nice building. So the building requires so many stone, wood, earth. Wherefrom you have got it? You have not produced the wood. It is God's property. You have not produced the metal; you have taken it from the mine. That is God's property. The earth, also, the bricks also, which you have made you have simply given your labor. That labor is also God's property, because you work with your hand, but it is not your hand; it is God's hand. If it is your hand, then when it is paralyzed, you cannot use it. When the power of using your energy of the hand is withdrawn by God, you cannot work.
This prayer for Govinda is from Brahma-saṁhitā. It is very old literature, and nobody can say when it was spoken, but it is understood that these verses were written by Brahmā, and when Lord Caitanya was traveling in South India He picked up this book from a temple, hand-written, and He delivered to His devotees. So, it is very authorized book. In this book the description of Kṛṣṇa is very vivid, vividly given. There His place, His activities, His form, everything is there nicely given. So, this, this verse, it is, it is not first verse. This is the 34th verse of the Fifth Chapter. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam. That, that place, cintāmaṇi ... Cintāmaṇi, a stone. In the transcendental world the, as we have got experience here, the houses are made of bricks, there the houses are made of cintāmaṇi stone. The cintāmaṇi stone is..., of course there is no exact translation, but it is understood it is something like touchstone. Touchstone means the stone which if it touches a iron, it transforms into gold.
This is nāma. Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. There is no difference between the name and the person. Here, in this material world, there is difference between the name and the thing. Just like if I want water, if I simply chant "Water, water, water..." Sometimes some rascals, these, give the example that if we chant "Coca-cola, Coca-cola, Coca-cola..." It is not like that. They do not know, and they, they, they dare to explain this nāma. Such a rascal they are. They do not know what is name. Here is a description of the name: nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vi... This is caitanya. This is not dead stone. This body is dead stone. Caitanya means the living force. That is caitanya. So nāma is caitanya.
Festival Lectures
The whole world is full of ignorant. Therefore we are trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness—it is our folly. You see? It is our folly, "the cry in the wilderness." But we cannot stop this business. You see? They may think that "Why you are nonsense people? You have given up everything. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. You are fools. You are not enjoying life." They may say like that, but our, because we have nothing to do with them, our business is to satisfy the Supreme. That is my real sense gratification. I have got my senses. As soon as I use it for my satisfaction, it is material. And as soon as I use them for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, it is spiritual. That's all. Try to understand the distinction between material and spiritual. Material means I have to act. Acting means I have to act with my senses, with my desires, with my thinking, feeling, willing, so many things, because that is original. You cannot stop your thinking, feeling, willing, working, because that is your original nature. You are living entities. If you have no thinking, feeling, willing, desire or working, then what is the difference between you and the stone? You are not stone. Some philosopher are trying to make you stone, but that is not possible. You cannot become stone.
So they may... Although we have fallen in the material platform, but because we are spiritual energy, therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing this living entity as para prakṛti. It is prakṛti. Prakṛti means to be controlled by the puruṣa. This is to be understood. Prakṛti is never controller. The puruṣa is controller. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. So jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). It is parā-prakṛti, superior energy, because it is trying to control over the material energy. Every one of us, we are trying to control over the material energy. The big stone, big hill, they, that is material energy, but the spiritual energy, a human being, is breaking the hill by dynamite. Therefore it is superior energy. It is also energy, but superior energy, because the..., it can control even the biggest mountain. Nowadays, by scientific advancement, they are making so many tunnels within the big, big mountain. Big, big ocean, they are making tunnel. They are drilling oil. Controlling. Therefore superior energy. But that does not mean they have become God. That is mistake. God is different. God is Kṛṣṇa, the supreme controller. He's controller of the material energy and the superior energy. This should be the conclusion. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). And the... Because... That will be explained in the next verse.
If somebody thinks, "Oh, it is made of stone..." It is stone to the eyes of the nondevotee, but it is personally Supreme Personality of Godhead to the devotees. It requires the eyes to see. So devotee sees in a different angle of vision. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He entered Jagannātha temple immediately He fainted: "Oh, here is My Lord." And the nondevotee is seeing: "It is wood, a lump of wood." Therefore, to the nondevotee, He remains always as wood, but to the devotee He speaks. That is the difference. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). If God is everything, why wood, through wood and stone, God cannot manifest? If God is everything? According to Māyāvāda philosophy... That's a fact. God, omnipotent. He can express Himself even through wood and stone. That is God's omnipotency. That is called omnipotency. Not that God is unable to express Himself through wood and stone. Then how He's omnipotent? Omnipotent means His potency can be expressed through anything. Because anything, everything is the expansion of God's energy. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis tathedam akhilaṁ jagat. The whole world is manifestation of different energies of God. Therefore... Just like through the energy of electricity the electric powerhouse, although far, far away from this place, was expressing. There is electricity. Through this glass, through these wires, the power can be expressed. There is a process.
So this is not fact that Kṛṣṇa is within your mind; therefore you should not got to the temple, you have become so advanced. No. Better... (break) ...śilā-dhīr. Do not consider that "Here is a stone Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa is everything. Stone is also Kṛṣṇa; simply you have to be qualified how to talk with stone Kṛṣṇa. That is your qualification. You have to qualify yourself; otherwise Kṛṣṇa is stone, Kṛṣṇa is water, Kṛṣṇa is sky, Kṛṣṇa is everything. So this is the philosophy. Kṛṣṇa says bhūmir āpo' nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca: (BG 7.4) "I am everything." That's a fact. So why do you say there is stone Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is everything, if you have got the eyes to see, you can see Kṛṣṇa everywhere and everything.
So that's a long story, but I wish to narrate this, the Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī's mission. So at that time one of my Godbrother was also present. He reminded me about my friend's donation, and Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda immediately took up the land. He continued that "There is no need of establishing many temples. Better we publish some books." He said like that. He said that "We started our, this Gauḍīya Maṭha in Ultadanga. The rent was very small, and if we could gather 2 to 250 rupees, it was very nice, going on. But since this J.V. Datta(?) has given us this stone, marble stone Ṭhākurabari, our competition between the disciples have increased, so I don't like anymore. Rather, I would prefer to take out the marble stone and sell it and publish some books." So I took that point, and he also especially advised me that "If you get money, you try to publish books." So by his blessing it has become very successful by your cooperation. Now our books are being sold all over the world, and it is very satisfactory sale. So on this particular day of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's advent, try to remember his words, that he wanted that many books should be published about our philosophy and it should be given to the English-knowing public especially, because English language is now world language. We are touring all over the world.
Therefore do not think that we have installed a marble statue. The rascals will say "They are heathens." No. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa personally. Kṛṣṇa personally, Kṛṣṇa has kindly assumed this form just... Because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa, the gigantic Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa is everywhere... Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Our imperfect senses cannot see Kṛṣṇa immediately. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, as we can see... We can see stone, we can see wood, we can see earth, we can see water, we can see color. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa comes before us just quite suitable for our vision. But He's Kṛṣṇa. So this Deity worship, those who are in charge of Deity worship, they never should think that here is a statue. No. Here is Kṛṣṇa. The honor, the respect, the samra (indistinct), means with great honor... You must always think that here is Kṛṣṇa personally. Don't think that it is statue. Kṛṣṇa personally.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
The whole world's cloth factory will fail you. (laughter) Therefore Kṛṣṇa is accepted, a four-feet-small Deity, so that you can acquire Kṛṣṇa's dress within your means. You can put Kṛṣṇa within your means. That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Therefore it is forbidden, arcye viṣṇu śilā-dhīḥ. If any rascal thinks that in the Viṣṇu form, as stone, as wood..., vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ, devotees considered as belonging to certain nation, caste, these are nārakī-buddhi. This is not to be done. It is fact that here is Kṛṣṇa. Very kindly, just to show me favor, He has come in this form. But He's Kṛṣṇa; He's not stone. Even it is stone, that is also Kṛṣṇa, because there is nothing else but Kṛṣṇa, anything. Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no existence. Sarvaṁ khalv idam brahma. So Kṛṣṇa has got the power that even in his so-called shape of stone, He can accept your service. That is Kṛṣṇa.
So you have to understand these things, and if you understand properly what is Kṛṣṇa, this much qualification will make you fit for being liberated even in this life.
So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very, very important for the human society. It is not exactly a religious movement as it is understood in the Western countries. Religion is described in the English dictionary as "a kind of faith." Faith you may accept or may not accept, but religion is the word, as we understand from Sanskrit dictionary, it cannot be rejected. Or you and your religion cannot be separated. Therefore we should understand very clearly that we are experiencing two things: one is matter, and another is spirit. Just like there is a stone, and there is a small ant. The stone, it may be very big, but it cannot move. It has no life. But the small ant, although it is very small, it has life. So there are two things, we can very easily understand: one is dead matter, and the other is living force. We are actually living force. Living force, we are covered by the matter, and according to the different types of covering, we are representing different types of living condition. So this living force, being encaged by the dead matter, it is a struggle for existence. The living force trying to get out of the material encagement, that is called struggle for existence. The living force by nature is jubilant. The supreme living force is God, Kṛṣṇa, and we are part and parcel of the living force. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, two kinds of energies: one material energy, one spiritual energy. The material energy is earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, etc., and the spiritual energy is the living force which is trying to lord it over the material energy.
So this movement is so important. We are giving the best service to the humanity. They are plunged into ignorance. All, they are rascals, mūḍha. It is not our manufactured word. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So we have this test tube. If you see one has no information of Kṛṣṇa, then he is mūḍha. We haven't got to study more: whether he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, whether he has got any portion of his heart attracted, attached to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means attraction. So whether he has been attracted by Kṛṣṇa. That is our natural position—to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. Just like the magnetic stone attracts the iron. It is natural. And if the iron is covered with dirt, then it does not become attracted. So this is the test, to make people prepared for being attracted by Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Initiation Lectures
So you may be called Rukmiṇī devī. And some day you may be kidnapped by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa kidnapped Rukmiṇī. Rukmiṇī was very beautiful, qualified, Lakṣmī. So his (her) father liked that Rukmiṇī should be given to Kṛṣṇa. And his (her) brother liked that she should be handed over to another boy. So Rukmiṇī sent one letter to Kṛṣṇa, that "Although I've not seen You, but I've heard of Your activities. So I am attached to You. Now some nonsense is coming to marry me." (break) Just see, how nice it is (laughs). And we eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda, we enjoy the Kṛṣṇa. What is this nonsense, ahaṁ brahman, Brahman? "I am stone." What is the difference? If somebody thinks, "I am stone," and if somebody says, "I am Brahman. I am void," so what is the difference between stone and void? The same thing. Why should we become stone and wood? We shall, we should reciprocate loving affairs with Kṛṣṇa. Mādhavī-latā? How many pictures you have done? You have seen Mādhavī-latā's picture? That picture is painted by Mādhavī-latā. Yes, she is good painter. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why you have stopped? Yes, always chant. Chant loudly. (fire sacrifice continues) All bow down. (devotees offer obeisances) Now chant. "Govinda Jaya Jaya." Chant. Chant and dance.
You are spirit soul. Woods and stone will not give you any pleasure. That is not possible. You are not wood and stone. You are spirit soul. You must have spiritual food. Therefore, in America especially, despite all material opulences, they..., you are becoming confused and frustrated and disappointed. Because wood and stone will not satisfy you. You must have spiritual food. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Thank you everyone. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
You are taking so many things from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving you everything. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Whatever our necessities of life, that is being supplied by Kṛṣṇa. We are taking these fruits, flowers, grains. It is not possible to manufacture these in your factory. It is Kṛṣṇa sending, Kṛṣṇa giving you. So we are living at the cost of Kṛṣṇa, and after cooking these fruits, flowers or grains, if we do not offer to Kṛṣṇa, is that very good gentlemanliness? I take so much from you and simply, nicely, and very cleanly cooking the foodstuff, if we offer to Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong there? The rascals, they say, "Oh, they are heathens. They are worshiping some stone." Just see. So these are all less intelligent person. God eats. Kṛṣṇa says, tad aham aśnāmi. "I eat."
Everyone is trying to have peace-peace of the mind, peace of the society, peace of the nation. Very good. But you do not know how to get this peace. That is described in every Vedic literatures. Therefore Vedic knowledge is so important. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The Supreme Lord is the leader. He's also a living being like us. He's not a dead stone. He is... Just like Kṛṣṇa. When He comes, He lives like us, just like human being. So similarly the... No, not similarly. Kṛṣṇa is a living being like us. He has got also two hands, two legs, one head, as you have got. But what is the difference between you and Him? The difference is that eka, that singular number living being, vidadhāti kāmān bahūnām, He maintains everyone, and we are maintained. That is the difference.
In the dictionary, English dictionary, God means Supreme Being. So Supreme Being, He's also living being. He's not a dead stone. The difference is that He is the maintainer, and we are maintained. He is the ruler; we are ruled. This difference we have to understand. And He is the proprietor; we are servants. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is this. That is a fact. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). So this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is being spread all over the world for the peace of the world, for the peace of the mind, for the peace of the society. So take it very seriously. It is very authorized. It is not a concocted speculation, it is fact. And it is happening so. Now these American boys and girls who have come, spending thousands of rupees here... And they have no such distinction that "Here is Indian. He is African. He is brāhmaṇa. He's kṣatriya." Why? Because they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
General Lectures
You cannot develop consciousness from this body. Otherwise a dead man could have been again revived to consciousness. Because if matter is the cause of consciousness, then the whole matter is there already. Whole matter. The dead body means, so far material substance is concerned, everything is there, present. Nothing has disappeared. If you say there is no blood-oh, that is not very difficult thing, blood, a red substance. Do you mean to say something red injected within this body will bring back the life? No. If redness is the cause of life or consciousness, then modern chemical can make immediately by chemical combination the whole thing red. Or take example: there are many natural stones, they are by nature red. If you say that "This artificial redness cannot give life; the natural redness is the cause of life," then you take the stone. It has got natural redness, but there is no life. But there is no life. So redness is also not the cause of consciousness of life. That is a wrong theory. That is a complete... Consciousness is completely different thing, qualitatively different. Nothing is different from one to another, just like I have explained already that the earth, wood, then smoke, then fire—everything is linked up, but everything is also different from one another.
So this is a science. You see. Although we find that "This form of the Lord... The Hindus, they have established one statue in the temple, and they are worshiping as the Lord? How is that? Is it Lord is a stone? It is wood?" But he does not know that because it is authorized, because it is authorizedly worshiped, therefore even it is stone or wood, it can act. It can act. Just like the authorized post office, although seemingly it is a box which I can prepare, but it is acting because it is authorized, similarly, the authorized, authorized symbol or representation of God is also God. He's not different from God. Then why God is like that? It is His mercy. Because I cannot see God with my these eyes—I can see stone and wood and material things—therefore God is kind enough (to appear) in a form suitable to my seeing and accept my service. It is His kindness. And besides that, if everything is God, because everything has link with the God, with the Supreme Truth, then God, being omnipotent, why He cannot represent Himself in everything? If everything is God, everything is emanation of God, then God has got the power to manifest Himself in everything. That is His omnipotency. So these are consideration.
Simply they were..., always they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa. The one instance of their absorption in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is explained, that when Kṛṣṇa was going on the pasturing ground, the gopīs were crying at home. Why? They were thinking that "Kṛṣṇa's body is so delicate, so soft, that we, when we take His lotus feet and place on our breast or chest, we think it is hard, very hard for Him. So Kṛṣṇa is walking in the forest. There are so many particles of stones. They are pricking, and how much Kṛṣṇa is feeling pain." This thinking made, caused their crying, "How Kṛṣṇa is feeling pain." And the whole day, they will think of Kṛṣṇa like that, and when Kṛṣṇa will come back from the pasturing ground, then they will be relieved that "Kṛṣṇa has now come back." This was their business. Now, this sort of thinking of Kṛṣṇa does not require any riches or any high parentage or any beauty or any education. So we have to develop such Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our, this Gauḍīya-sampradāya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's descendants, our line of God realization is that separation, feeling of separation. Not that we have got Kṛṣṇa within our hand. No. The feeling of separation, worship of Kṛṣṇa by feeling of separation is better than the worship by directly meeting. Vipralambha-sevā.
Actually, God is proprietor of everything. Now, take for example this house. This house is made of wood, stone, clay, sand, and everything, materials. But who is the proprietor of this wood, sand, clay? God is the proprietor. You cannot produce wood. You cannot produce sand. You cannot produce clay. You can simply work as a laborer to bring the clay, to bring the wood, to bring the stone and collect them and stand, make, construct a very big skyscraper house. But actually, the proprietor is God. This land, this land, America, it was lying before you came from Europe, before you colonized. And it may be, some days after, it will be lying here, and you shall have to go. Therefore who is the proprietor of this land? God is the proprietor.
People do not understand it. They are being taught, "First of all, you love your body." Then little extended, "You love your father and mother." Then "Love your brother and sister." Then "Love your society, love your country, love the whole human society, humanity." But all this extended love, so-called love, will not give you satisfaction unless you reach to the point to love Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be satisfied. Just like if you throw a stone on some reservoir of water, on a lake, there immediately begins a circle. The circle expands, and expanding, expanding, expanding, when the circle touches the shore, it stops. Unless the circle reaches the bank or the shore of the reservoir of the water, it goes on increasing. So we have to increase. Increase. The increase means there are two ways. If you practice, "I love my society, I love my country, I love my human nation," then "Living entities," go on... But if you directly touch Kṛṣṇa, then everything is there. It is so nice.
They should keep at home, and they should be given protection by the father, by the husband, or elderly sons. They were not meant for going out. So they kept themselves at home. But Kṛṣṇa was, say, miles away in the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa's feet is so soft. Now He's walking on the rough grounds. The particles of stones are pricking His sole. So He must be feeling some pain." In this way thinking, they used to cry. Just see. Kṛṣṇa is miles away, and what Kṛṣṇa is feeling, they are simply thinking of that feeling: "Kṛṣṇa may be feeling like that." This is love. This is love. They are not asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, what You have brought from Your pasturing ground? How is Your pocket? Let me see." No. Simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. They used to dress themselves because..., and go before Kṛṣṇa with nice dress, "Oh, He'll be happy to see." Generally, a boy or a man becomes happy to see his lover or wife nicely dressed. That is... Therefore it is the nature of the woman to dress nice. And according to Vedic system, a woman should dress very nicely just to satisfy her husband. That is the Vedic system. If her husband is not at home, then she should not dress nicely.
So sthāvarā and jaṅgama. Jaṅgama means those who can move, and sthāvarā means those who cannot move. The hills, the mountains, they are also amongst the sthāvarās. They are also living entities. There are many hills, they are growing. That means there is life, but in the lowest stage of: stone. So in this way we are making progress. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Reptiles and worms. Rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ means eleven hundred thousands. Then from reptiles, worms, the wings grow-birds. From wings grow... Then it comes to the bird's life. Pakśiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam: ten hundred thousands of birds. And then paśavaḥ triṁśal-lakṣāṇi, four-legged animals, there are thirty hundred thousand. So nine and twenty, twenty-nine, then eleven, forty, then birds, ten, fifty, beasts, thirty, eighty-eighty hundred thousands. And then... Eight millions—and four hundred thousand species of human life. Human life is not in large quantity. Out of that, mostly they are uncivilized, and very few Aryan families.
So he placed Kṛṣṇa on the lap of Yaśodā and took away the daughter, and this daughter was given to Kaṁsa for killing. Just see, there is selfishness. He wanted to save his own son and wanted to kill Yaśodā's daughter. (chuckling) You see? So this is not selfishness; therefore we shall misunderstand. That daughter was not ordinary child, she was the material energy herself, Durgā. So when Kaṁsa took that child by the leg and wanted to, what is called? Slash? Smash, yes. Smash on the stone, the daughter slipped from his hand and appeared as Durgā, that "You fool, you want to kill me. The boy, the child who will kill you, is already born. Don't try for killing me. He's already born."
So we are not concerned about the physical body. Not concerned means... We are concerned, of course, because the spiritual master, those who are ācāryas, their body is not considered as materiel. Arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir. Just like the statue of Kṛṣṇa, to consider that "This is a stone..." Similarly, arcye śilā-dhīr guruṣu na... Guruṣu means those who are ācāryas, to accept their body as ordinary man's body, this is denied in the śāstras. So although a physical body is not present, the vibration should be accepted as the presence of the spiritual master, vibration. What we have heard from the spiritual master, that is living. You'll see in these pictures. This movement was started by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and then it was entrusted to Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. Then we are trying to serve his word, and many of my Godbrothers, they are also... (break—end)
Why one should wait for sixteen years or sixteen or thirty-two years? No, there is no waiting. Immediately. (reading:) "Will ISKCON accept people this young?" Oh, yes, we, younger, even younger. Even one child is within the womb of his mother, we can teach. It is so nice thing. The instance is Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was in his womb of his mother, one saintly sage taught his mother about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and the child became Kṛṣṇa conscious from the womb of his mother. So we can teach even in the womb of the mother because it is spiritual. It is not material. No material condition can check this teaching. Ahaituky apratihatā. That is the highest perfectional system of religion which is unchecked and develops love of Godhead. That is first-class religion, not under any condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Apratihatā means without being checked. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not such thing that because one is child, he cannot learn; because one is blind, he cannot learn; because one is poor, therefore he cannot... Because one is rich... No condition, anyone, simply he must be a living entity, that's all. He must not be a dead stone. If he has got life, he can learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is so simple and so nice.
We have to transcend the mental state, the intellectual state. The philosophers, they are intellectually trying to be happy. That also we have to transcend. We have (to) come to the spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ. And not only come to the spiritual platform, we must have spiritual engagement. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have got engagement. We are not only satisfied that "I am spirit," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. No. There must be duties of the Brahman. The Brahman must be engaged. Otherwise... Because we want some work, because we are active... We are not just like stones. We cannot sit down. So there must be activities. Just study the nature of the child. He's always active, must be doing something. Maybe it is useless, but how can you stop the child's activities? That is not possible. Similarly, we are active. So simply by understanding that "I am spirit soul" will not help me. I must be active in the spiritual world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everyone is engaged in some activity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
I understand that your, this society is known as International Student Society? Yes. There are many other international societies. There are international United Nations also. The idea is very nice, but we should try to understand—internationally or universally—what is the central idea. Just like if you throw a stone in the middle of water, it expands. It becomes, the circle expands, and the circle goes to the limit of the bank of the water. That is the way. The vibration, sound vibration also, radio message also. Similarly, the circle increases and you capture the waves and you understand. Similarly, international feeling can be extended also. In the beginning of our life, just like a child, anna-brahman: everything he wants to eat. A small child, whatever he captures he wants to eat. Personal interest. Then, when the child grows, he tries to participate with his other brothers and sisters: "All right. You also take little." This is increasing the feeling of fellowship. Then he grows again, he feels for his father, parents, society, then community, country, and at last, international.
So Kṛṣṇa can accept your service through everything. Don't consider that "This is metal." The metal is also Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should know bhūmi..., bhūmi... Metal, what is metal? Metal means earth. Kṛṣṇa says, first of all says, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ: "They are My all energies." So from argument's point of view, Kṛṣṇa is everything. Therefore Kṛṣṇa can accept service through everything. So this Deity, vigraha, either made of wood, made of stone or earth or metal or painting, they are not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got the potency to accept your service through this medium. So they are not pictures or they are not ordinary idols. You should never... Similarly, a sound vibration. Kṛṣṇa is present through sound vibration because the five elements, ākāśa, the sky... Sky, within sky, there is sound. So from argumentative point of view also, nobody can deny that this chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is not identical. It is identical. Because identical... Everything is identical.
That dharma is different thing from the word religion. Religion is generally understood as a kind of faith, but dharma is not like that. Dharma you cannot change. Just like water. Water is liquid. You cannot make it solid. If water becomes solid, then it is not in the natural state. If you can... You can say the water becomes sometimes solid by less temperature under certain condition. But the tendency of water is to become liquid again. Water cannot stand solid for good. This is called dharma, religion. Or, say, take it for example, a stone. Stone is solid. Stone cannot be liquid. If by chemical process you make stone liquid sometimes, as you transform stone to glass, that liquidness of stone is temporary. Similarly, the solidity of water is also temporary. So similarly, our religion, the dharma... Try to understand the word dharma. Dharma is a permanent occupation of a certain thing. Just like sugar. Sugar is sweet. You cannot make sugar as salty. Or pepper is pungent, hot. You cannot make it sweet.
Don't think that you are worshiping some doll. No. As the post office kindly places a box before your house to facilitate your business, similarly Kṛṣṇa, goloka eva nivasati, He is living in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, but He expands Himself as Deity to accept your humble service. Never consider that the Deity is made of stone or brass or wood or like that. Brass, wood, stone—everything is Kṛṣṇa because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Me, "It is Mine." So everything is Kṛṣṇa's, and from everything, Kṛṣṇa can appear and accept your service. This is the philosophy. He can appear Himself through stone because stone is His energy. Just like if the electric power is running on, from anywhere you can take electricity, energy. Similarly, his energy is running on everywhere, and you can take the facility of His energy from anywhere, provided you know how to take it. Electric, where insulation is there, but one who knows... I have seen in your country. The telephone man immediately comes and joins telephone. But he knows how to do it. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa can be manifested from anywhere, everywhere, from anything, provided you know how to do it.
So here, the original cause is being explained by Vyāsadeva. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Now, what type of that supreme cause is that? Is it a stone or sentient? No. Vyāsadeva informs, no. The original cause, how it can be a stone? Original cause cannot be. It must be sentient. Creator must be sentient. Without brain, without creative power, how there can be creation? Where is your argument? No, that is not. These are false arguments. Therefore Vyāsadeva gives you information that He is sentient, in full knowledge. In full knowledge. What kind of knowledge? Anvaya-vyatirekābhyām, directly and indirectly. That is full knowledge. Just like I say "my head" or "my hair," but if I ask you or you ask that "How many hairs are there?" oh, I am ignorant. I do not know. Similarly, we are so imperfect that we may have little knowledge even of our own body.
The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, when Śukadeva Gosvāmī was explaining that duty of the human being... Duty of the human being is explained that first beginning is dharma. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. Unless we come to the platform of understanding what is dharma, or religion... "Religion" is not the exact translation of the word dharma. Religion is understood in English dictionary as a kind of faith. But dharma does not mean that. Dharma means your characteristic which you cannot change. Just like water... Water is liquid. That is the characteristic of water. It cannot be changed. Stone-hardness is the characteristic of the stone. It cannot be changed. If you say that water has now changed its characteristic, it has become now hard, stonelike, that is not actually the fact. Although water sometimes becomes hard like stone by the influence of atmosphere, it immediately begins to melt. That means it is going to its own characteristic, liquidity. So when we speak of dharma, according to Vedic understanding, dharma means your characteristic which you cannot change. Therefore, in other words, sometimes dharma is explained as sanātana-dharma, sanātana-dharma. Sanātana means eternal. You cannot change it.
Try to understand what is dharma. Dharma means which you cannot give up. Dharma does not mean you accept this dharma today and tomorrow another dharma. That is not dharma. Dharma means the natural characteristic. Just like sugar is sweet. That is its dharma. And chili is hot. That is its dharma. A snake bites. That is his dharma. Water is liquid. That is its dharma. Stone is solid. That is its dharma. You cannot change. So what is the dharma of the living entities, or the human being? Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu has enunciated the dharma of the human being: jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is dharma, that every living entity is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot give it up. If he does not serve Kṛṣṇa, then he will have to serve māyā. Service is there. Nobody can say that "I don't serve anyone." Is there anybody who can say boldly that "I do not serve anyone?" You must serve. That is your dharma. Either you become a Christian or a Muslim or a Hindu or this or that, your real characteristic is that you have to serve. That service attitude, when it is misunderstood, it is applied to māyā, and we are not happy. When it is applied to Kṛṣṇa, then we are happy. Service you must render. That is your position. You cannot become master. Even the politicians, they promise, "I shall give you such and such service. Please give me vote." So the service is promised, because we have to serve.
One has got the dress of tree; one has got the dress of king; one has got the, insect. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ: (BG 5.18) "One who is paṇḍita, learned, his vision is equal." So if St. Francis was thinking like that, that is highest standard of spiritual understanding. Similar expression is there in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti (CC Madhya 8.274). A spiritually advanced devotee of the Lord, he sees the trees or the animals or the stone or the anything he sees—he sees that it is the energy of God. Nā dekhe tāra mūrti. Just like your mūrti or my mūrti—mūrti means form—may be little different, but we are made of the same ingredients. If your body surgically operated, the same blood, stone, or bone, or flesh, everything is there the same because same ingredients. Similarly, our outward covering is covered by these material elements, but inside, within this, there is the spirit soul. Therefore one who is advanced, he does not see that "This is cat, this is dog, this is man, this is elephant, and this is brāhmaṇa, this is this..." No. He sees the soul, that "Here is the soul, part and parcel of God." That is his vision. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So that is God realization. God is spirit, Supreme Spirit, and he is part and parcel, the living entities. That is real vision. Paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned.
So long I have seen the body of my father. Now the soul has gone. I am crying, "My father has gone away." But did you see your father? "Yes, that body." The body is there. Why you are crying? So it is very common sense affair to understand where there is soul. A big stone, a big mountain, it cannot move although it is so big. And a small ant is moving. Why? There is soul. So how can you say the animals have no soul? This is ignorance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul being within the body means it is changing the body from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. And if the child is born dead—no more change of body. That is the proof that there is soul. Soul means the living force which is moving the body. That is soul. How you can say the animal has no soul? Everyone has soul. Even the grass has soul, because it is growing, changing body. (break) ...simple thing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Because all dirty things are within our heart. On account of dirty things we are thinking that "I have got soul, and the animal has no soul." This is due to dirtiness of the heart.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: But one thing is that when rocks were thrown on the sea by Lord Rāmacandra's will, they began to float. Therefore the Supreme Will is the ultimate cause. Supreme Will wants that the rock may go down in the water, then it goes; if He does not wants, then the rock floats. Therefore rock is not independent. The Supreme Will of God is independent. There are so many other examples. The same example as I cited the other day, that the cow eats the dry grass and it gives so nutritious, full of vitamins milk. But the same dry grass, if a woman eats, she will die. Therefore the plan of the Supreme that the cow, by eating dry grass, she can deliver nicely. It is not on the dry grass she is producing milk; it is the will of God that is producing it. Similarly the stone falling. Because the will of God is there, therefore "You stone, go down in the water!" But when God wills that it floats, it will float. So that in that case the monad theory did not act.
Śyāmasundara: Just like the example of the rock falling in the water. He would say that the water separating and the rock falling are two separate acts. Neither one affects the other.
Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. This argument is called in Sanskrit kaka-tal-nyāya. There was a tal tree, and one crow came, and immediately the fruit fell down. And there were two arguers: one said that the crow sat down on the fruit and it was so light it fell down, and the other said no, the crow was trying to sit down on the fruit but in the meantime the fruit fell and he could not sit. It is like that. It may be coincidence, the crow was just trying to sit on the fruit and the fruit fell. But these people's answer is no, the crow first sat down, then is was fallen. Another says no, the fruit has fallen down; therefore the crow could not sit. So this kind of argument has no value. According (indistinct), the water separated and the stone fell—they are nonsensical. Our argument is strong: that if Kṛṣṇa desires, the stone can float on the water, despite the law of gravitation. The law of gravitation is not working. So many huge planets are floating. How they are floating? The law of gravitation is working here. The stone falls down and (indistinct) goes down in the water. But that is one of the ingredients of the planet. But the planet itself is floating in the air. Where is the law of gravitation? Therefore Kṛṣṇa's desire. The cause is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Let it be floating." Or He has made some arrangement. By law of gravitation every planet should have gone down, and there is Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and broke His head, because he is lying down in the Garbhodakaśāyī... So all the planets fall on Him and He is dead. But no. By His order they are all floated. That is Kṛṣṇa. Is that all right? Or still more?
Śyāmasundara: He says that God is the supreme monad, or pure activity.
Prabhupāda: I was speaking like that. If God desires, then the other monads have no independence. The same example as I told you: the stone is falling down in the water, and the monads of the water giving way. It is falling down, but if God desires, the water will not give way, it will float. If God is the ultimate monad, that is possible. Therefore there is no reason for disbelieving that when Rāmacandra threw so many stones on the water of the sea, it began to float. You cannot disbelieve. If Rāmacandra is God and He is the ultimate cause, He can check. Whatever He wills will come into effect.
Śyāmasundara: But the point of whether the monad of the rock causes the monads of the water to part.
Prabhupāda: These causes can be changed—by God's will.
Śyāmasundara: Before, we were discussing Descartes and Hume. Descartes expressed that all knowledge comes through innate ideas, and Hume said just the opposite: "No. All knowledge comes from sense experience." So Kant is trying to unify the two ideas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense experience. Sense experience means purified sense experience. That is seva. Just like I am seeing here Kṛṣṇa, but others will see a stone. So he is also seeing with his eyes; I am also seeing with the eyes, but my eyes are different from his eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). When the eyes are anointed with love of God, ointment of love of God, then he can see. Just like if one's eyes are diseased, if he applies some eye ointment, or lotion, then he sees. So the same senses, the same eyes, unless they are treated and purified, he cannot understand or he cannot see or he cannot know.
Śyāmasundara: But the matter itself could have been eternally existing.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, matter also, we see, just like the tree is growing. The tree is wood. Wood is also matter. Stone is also growing. So how is it growing?
Śyāmasundara: Well, strictly materially speaking, I could say, well, there are some material reasons...
Prabhupāda: Just like my material body, it has grown. There was no existence, but combination of father and mother, the body is made and it grows, and again it is vanquished. That is the nature of matter. It takes birth at a certain moment, it grows, then it makes by-products, then it dwindles, then vanquishes. This is the nature of matter, any matter, anything you take. This material world is also like that. All these trees, they have grown up, and when they are grown up, you take the wood, you make houses, you make boxes, you make bedsteads, and so many things. But it is a fact that the trees have grown up from the seed. And wherefrom the seed comes?
Śyāmasundara: From the father tree.
Prabhupāda: It is not good. Then where is the question of taking him back to Godhead? It is not good. But if someone falls down somehow or other... But not that those who are coming with a mission, they are fallen down. When the governor goes to the prison house to inspect, it does not mean he's also prisoner. If the prisoners think, "Oh, the governor has come here, therefore he's also one of us." That is not. Therefore it is forbidden, guruṣu nara-matir, you never should think of guru as ordinary man. Guruṣu nara-matir, vaiṣṇave jāti buddhiḥ, arcye śilā-dhīr, if you think that is stone, "Ah, we are worshiping stone," these are forbidden. Actually they are not. Arcye śilā-dhīr, guruṣu nara-mati, vaiṣṇave jāti buddhiḥ. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11), because he's coming just like ordinary man. Not ordinary man, as man, so people are thinking, "Ah, He's a maybe little powerful. That's all." (indistinct). That is ignorance.
Śyāmasundara: Hegel's idea is actually not too much different than ours because he says that...
Prabhupāda: It is very much different, (indistinct) of difference. He'll have to go through millions of births to come to our understanding.
Śyāmasundara: When science tries to investigate something, they assume that what they are investigating is static, that it is a constant, that it is not changing, that it's static, mechanical. But the life force, he says, is dynamic; it's always changing, unpredictable.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is living force, it must be dynamic. It is not a dead stone. Because it is living force, it must be dynamic. We are all living force, sitting here, we may sit down or we may go away. That nobody can check. Similarly, we are dynamic forces, and God does not interfere with our dynamic force. He allows us, "Do whatever you like." Because if He interferes with our independence, then we are no longer living entities; we become dead stones. So God does not interfere. He gives us full freedom. But at the same time He comes down and instructs us, "But why you are engaged in this foolish activity? Please come to Me, back to home, back to Godhead, (indistinct)."
Śyāmasundara: So if he says that the physical world...
Līlāvatī: Does that mean that the spiritual body changes, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Not spiritual body, material body. Spiritual body cannot be changed.
Prabhupāda: But because we are imperfect, you are thinking like that, that individually we are imperfect. God is always there, and this cosmic manifestation is temporary creation. It is a chance to the individual soul to develop his consciousness, but if he does not take, again the annihilation, he remains in unconscious position, and when again there is creation he comes to consciousness. So this is going on.
Hayagrīva: He says, "If life realizes a plan, it ought to manifest a greater harmony the further it advances, just as the house shows a better and better idea of the architect as stone is set upon stone. If, on the contrary, the unity of life is to be found solely in the beginning in the impetus that pushes it along the road of time, the harmony is not in front but behind. The unity is given at the start as an impulsion, not placed at the end as an attraction." But he's...
Prabhupāda: So this can be utilized. Suppose an artist is trying to improve this building. So if he takes instruction from an experienced artist how to improve, then it becomes easier, and if he tries himself, it takes long, long time. He should take the artistic idea from a person who is perfect in artistic idea, then his work will make progress very swiftly. Otherwise he is already imperfect, he may think "This is better," but it may not be better because he is imperfect. So he has to take instruction from a perfect person, then the progress will be very swift.
Prabhupāda: We have already proved that all his methods are defective.
Śyāmasundara: He says there are five ways. All knowledge, he says, is cause and effect. So he said we can determine what is the cause and what is the effect of anything according to these five methods. One is the method of agreement, that is, if we have two or more instances of a phenomenon and there is one common circumstance behind both of them, that we can conclude that that circumstance is the cause of the effect. Just like if we observe that two stones are thrown into the water, and that each stone is thrown by someone, then we can determine that throwing is the common cause of that stone's going into the water, the common circumstance.
Prabhupāda: Why this example? What is the value of this example?
Śyāmasundara: Any example. Anything that is caused, if there are two instances of it-two balls are dropping—we can conclude, if we studied both of them, that they were both moved by some person, that that person is the cause of their falling. If there is a common circumstance for any phenomenon.
Prabhupāda: Any phenomenon that has natural law, so that is the cause. And if we go on, so what is the cause of that natural law? Then ultimately we find Kṛṣṇa. Everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), everything has got a cause, original source. So if you make actually research work what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, that is called darśana. Darśana means seeing, finding out the cause. Therefore philosophy is called darśana-śāstra, to see the cause of the cause, cause of the cause, cause of the cause. So ultimately they have found Kṛṣṇa is the cause, original cause of everything.
Śyāmasundara: What about if it accidentally fell off; a thunderbolt hit the rock and it moved, like that, or gravity made it fall.
Prabhupāda: Gravity, but when you say law of gravity, then the question is that somebody has made that law. One—we should give, of course—these materialistic philosophers... Just like when Rāmacandra threw stones on the sea, the gravity did not work. It was floating. The rocks were floating. Therefore the law of gravity ultimately is made by the Supreme Lord. So he can change it. So my study of gravity is not final.
Śyāmasundara: One of the other methods of testing is called the method of concomitant variation.
Prabhupāda: This method of studying the cause, so we take the ultimate cause of everything, with His full independence. The ultimate cause can do anything and everything beyond our calculation. There is cause, but the cause is so powerful that it is beyond our calculation how it is being done. Our knowledge is limited; therefore our calculation may be, may be or almost always, is not perfect.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that then they indulge in pleasure and mental speculation as a diversionary tactic. To try to cover up this despair, they become more indulged in sense pleasure and more speculating.
Prabhupāda: Just like people in the material world, when a businessman failure, he takes to drinking. Sometimes great shock, in order to forget, one takes to drinking. Yes. Intoxication.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that this is the stepping-stone, or the first stage toward self-realization, that from this despair that one can find his authentic selfhood.
Prabhupāda: This we will admit. That is, therefore the Vedānta-sūtra is there. When fickle people become disgusted, that "We have worked so hard, but still we could not attain the goal of life, peace and prosperity," despair, then they begin to think, "Actually, what is the purpose of life?" That is called brahma-jijñāsā, inquiring into the Absolute Truth or the ultimate truth of life. That is natural in human life. That sort of inquiry is necessary for further development.
Prabhupāda: So these things are very nicely described in Vedānta-sūtra, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the right commentary on Vedānta-sūtra. Just like it is also philosophy, that what is the actual aim of life, or what is the Absolute Truth. So the Vedānta-sūtra is so nicely made, the answer is also there. The Absolute Truth must be that thing which is the origin of everything. Now Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam discusses what is the nature of that origin. This requires philosophical as well as authentic proof. Now, that origin, first of all the origin is conscious or not conscious. Origin, just like these some philosophers, they are tracing life from bones, tracing life. So now one should be intelligent enough to understand whether actually life can begin from bones and stones or life begins from life, actual life. So if the origin of everything, you can say the original source of creation or the creator, if you take it as creator, that we have to take. But creation does not take automatically. There is no proof. There is no proof. From matter, automatically creation takes place, that is not very perfect philosophy, neither one can support this view in the long run. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that the origin of everything must be conscious. And that consciousness, also, existence, existing eternally. Not that consciousness has developed under certain conditions. In this way Bhāgavata has explained, Vedānta-sūtra has explained the origin very logically and sensibly. So these answers are there in the Bhāgavata and Vedānta-sūtra.
Prabhupāda: Purport.
Hari-śauri: The group of transcendentalists who follow the path of the inconceivable, unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme Lord are called jñāna-yogīs, and persons who are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service to the Lord, are called bhakti-yogīs. Now, here the difference between jñāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga is definitely expressed. The process of jñāna-yoga, although ultimately bringing one to the same goal, is very troublesome, whereas the path of bhakti-yoga, the process of being in direct service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is easier and is natural for the embodied soul. The individual soul is embodied since time immemorial. It is very difficult for him to simply theoretically understand that he is not the body. Therefore, the bhakti-yogī accepts the Deity of Kṛṣṇa as worshipable because there is some bodily conception fixed in the mind, which can thus be applied. Of course, worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead in His form within the temple is not idol worship. There is evidence in the Vedic literature that worship may be saguṇa and nirguṇa—of the Supreme possessing or not possessing attributes. Worship of the Deity in the temple is saguṇa worship, for the Lord is represented by material qualities. But the form of the Lord, though represented by material qualities such as stone, wood, or oil paint, is not actually material. That is the absolute nature of the Supreme Lord.
A crude example may be given here. We may find some mailboxes on the street, and if we post our letters in those boxes, they will naturally go to their destination without difficulty. But any old box, or an imitation, which we may find somewhere, which is not authorized by the post office, will not do the work. Similarly, God has an authorized representation in the Deity form, which is called arca-vigraha. This arca-vigraha is an incarnation of the Supreme Lord. God will accept service through that form. The Lord is omnipotent and all-powerful; therefore, by His incarnation as arca-vigraha, He can accept the services of the devotee, just to make it convenient for the man in conditioned life.
So, for a devotee, there is no difficulty in approaching the Supreme immediately and directly, but for those who are following the impersonal way to spiritual realization, the path is difficult. They have to understand the unmanifested representation of the Supreme through such Vedic literatures as the Upaniṣads, and they have to learn the language, understand the nonperceptual feelings, and they have to realize all these processes. This is not very easy for a common man. A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in devotional service, simply by the guidance of the bona fide spiritual master, simply by offering regulative obeisances unto the Deity, simply by hearing the glories of the Lord, and simply by eating the remnants of foodstuffs offered to the Lord, realizes the Supreme Personality of Godhead very easily. There is no doubt that the impersonalists are unnecessarily taking a troublesome path with the risk of not realizing the Absolute Truth at the ultimate end. But the personalist, without any risk, trouble, or difficulty, approaches the Supreme Personality directly. A similar passage appears in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is stated there that if one has to ultimately surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead (This surrendering process is called bhakti.), but instead takes the trouble to understand what is Brahman and what is not Brahman and spends his whole life in that way, the result is simply troublesome. Therefore it is advised here that one should not take up this troublesome path of self-realization because there is uncertainty in the ultimate result.
A living entity is eternally an individual soul, and if he wants to merge into the spiritual whole, he may accomplish the realization of the eternal and knowledgeable aspects of his original nature, but the blissful portion is not realized. By the grace of some devotee, such a transcendentalist, highly learned in the process of jñāna-yoga, may come to the point of bhakti-yoga, or devotional service. At that time, long practice in impersonalism also becomes a source of trouble, because he cannot give up the idea. Therefore an embodied soul is always in difficulty with the unmanifest, both at the time of practice and at the time of realization. Every living soul is partially independant, and one should know for certain that this unmanifested realization is against the nature of his spiritual blissful self. One should not take up this process. For every individual living entity the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which entails full engagement in devotional service, is the best way. If one wants to ignore this devotional service, there is the danger of turning to atheism. Thus this process of centering attention on the unmanifested, the inconceivable, which is beyond the approach of the senses, as already expressed in this verse, should never be encouraged at any time, especially in this age. It is not advised by Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Hayagrīva: He says, "If you throw away His grace, He punishes you by behaving objectively toward you, and in that sense one may say that the world has not got a personal God in spite of all the proofs. But while dons and parsons," that is priests, "drivel on," talk on, "about the millions of truths about God's personality, the truth is that there are no longer the men living who could bear the pressure and weight of having a personal God." Because he feels that a personal God would make demands on man, and so therefore men reject the idea of a personal God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal God means He is demanding, as Kṛṣṇa is demanding, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me, or offer Me worship, offer Me obeisances, and become My devotee. And give up all other engagement. Simply be engaged in My service." This is the demand of God, and if we carry out His demand, then we are perfect. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you simply carry out the orders of God then you become qualified, fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. This is clearly stated. Tyaktvā deham. We have to give up this body, but a devotee, a pure devotee, after giving up this body, he doesn't accept another material body, but in his original, spiritual body he goes back to home, back to Godhead.
Hayagrīva: That's the end of Kierkegaard. (end)
Hayagrīva: Material life is a projection of the will.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he has read it. It is taken from Indian... It is called vāsanā. Vāsanā means desire. So that desire, material desire, but the living entity cannot be desireless. Desireless..., nirvāṇa means material desires finished. But because living entity is eternal spiritual being, he is, he has got spiritual desire. Now it is covered. The desire is there, desire is constant companion, but because it is materially covered, we are thinking this temporary world as reality, and it is not reality; therefore it is changing. We are having different types of desires according to the body we get, and the soul is transmigrating in this material world from one body to another, and he is creating a certain type of desires, will. And to fulfill that will he is getting a different type of body by the Supreme Will. He is willing, and the Supreme Will, God, Kṛṣṇa, understanding his will, giving him facility to accept a certain pattern of circumstances, body, to fulfill his particular desire. That is going on. Therefore this vāsanā, or will, is the cause of his material existence, constantly changing, and on account of changing will he is changing body. This is the complication of material existence. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach the living entity that as living being you must have desires. If your desires are stopped, then you become like stone. So you have to cleanse this desire, diseased form of desire. That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Now the desires are according to the upādhi, according to the body. A man gets the body of American, he thinks, "America is my home. American nation, they are my brother. American upliftment is my business," so on, so on. And as soon as it is changed, you are Chinese man, again he thinks, "I am Chinese." Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He has to change.
Śyāmasundara: Husserl's next step is to...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is (indistinct) idea: "This is also good, this is also good, this is also good." We say only, only Kṛṣṇa good. We are the only community in the whole world. Because we know. That is the difference. One who does not know, he'll say, "This is also good, this is also good." That means he does not know what is good. Just like one who does not know which one is stone and which one is glass, imitation, glass. But one who knows, "Oh, this is real diamond, and this is only glass, polished glass..." So to distinguish these, what is genuine, which is false, you must have to go to the perfect person who knows it. The inquiry is there. That will lead you. When you ask somebody, "Which one is real?" and then you have to go, you go to such person, you go to the jeweler. Therefore your inquiry will take you to the right person if you are seriously inquisitive.
Devotee: Yes. You must be serious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are seeing (indistinct). If you are serious, then that will do, send you to the right person. But that inquiry is there. That is intuition. "I want to know. I want to know."
Prabhupāda: So where is the pleasure when he is dead? What is that pleasure?
Hayagrīva: Well there is pleasure, and then when pleasure is cultivated, culminated...
Prabhupāda: That pleasure is in the stone. So why you are...
Hayagrīva: That's inorganic. He spoke of the return, the quiescence of the inorganic world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So...
Hayagrīva: To become like...
Prabhupāda: Why you are philosophizing? You just sui..., make suicide and become a stonelike death. That why you are philosophizing, taking so much pain? Better you suicide, commit suicide, and immediately become silent, then that's happiness. (laughter) Why you are, rascal, bothering yourself and headaching others? The best thing is that you commit suicide and become dead, and all happiness is there. As some rascal do that, that by committing suicide he will solve all problem. So this is easy process, commit suicide, and why you are writing so many books? If ultimate happiness is to become dead, do that immediately.
Śyāmasundara: Well, they say "mother ocean." They sometimes say "mother ocean."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is just like because ocean keeps within, her cover, covering element. (indistinct) element. As the female keeps the child covered within the abdomen, so in that comparison you can say "mother." But similarly in the mountain also, there are so many minerals, so many gems, and so many nice stones. Simply by saying it is very strong. So generally male is strong and the female is weak. In that sense you can give a terminology.
Śyāmasundara: So he gives a definition of the cell. He says that "The cell is a center or an organization within the personality which seeks to develop towards a goal of maturity and integration, the harmonious bonds of conscious and unconscious disposition." So he says that within the personality there's a center, which strives to organize the personality in such a way that anything is integrated, unconscious and unconscious. Unconscious and conscious states are all integrated, in harmony. This is the cell.
Prabhupāda: What is the explanation, unconscious?
Śyāmasundara: Well...
Prabhupāda: Soul, soul at the present moment as we take it, that is... Present moment his real consciousness is covered. That we are always discussing.
Prabhupāda: But he does not believe in spirit soul, is that not? Hayagrīva: He says, "Life is not determined by consciousness but consciousness by life."
Prabhupāda: So what is that life? When the life is absent why this body, the used body, is dead stone only? Has he got any understanding of that, what is that life?
Hayagrīva: He felt that consciousness is basically social. He says, "Consciousness is from the very beginning a social product and remains so as long as man exists at all."
Prabhupāda: Why? Why he finishes? Why does he not exist? What is his answer to this?
Hayagrīva: What's that?
Prabhupāda: So long man exists, but why he ceases to exist? Why he stops his existence, he becomes dead matter, his body?
Hayagrīva: Marx had very little to say about death. He felt...
Prabhupāda: But death is a fact.
Śyāmasundara: If I invent something...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, in case of God, it is discovery. It is not invention. It is discovery.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Just like the idea of a chair is already there in nature. Nature provides a chair.
Prabhupāda: Nature provides a sitting place. Just like when there is a slab of stone anywhere, I wish to sit down on it. Psychology. Then the next proposal is, "Why not invent something at my home? It is here in a... I cannot take it." You can say the idea was there already, to sit down on a high place comfortably. So I come home and make a chair according to that idea.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the mind is an emergent, that is, it creates a new organization out of existing things. It emerges new things out of old things. This comes from the idea of evolution.
Prabhupāda: Just like there is gold and there is mountain. So I make a golden mountain. Gold is there, mountain is there. I combine together and make an imagination, golden mountain. Is that like that?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Similar to that.
Prabhupāda: The things are there. We mix up. So many things. The things are there and I mix up with something else and it can be called an invention.
Śyāmasundara: So even before inorganic life there was...
Prabhupāda: There is no such thing, from inorganic life. Inorganic life... Suppose just like Brahmā is coming from the navel of Viṣṇu. So where is the... We don't get any information. Viṣṇu is origin, and from Viṣṇu, Brahmā came. From Brahmā, other demigods came, other animals came. They create animals and others. The first created being is Brahmā, the most intelligent. He's not animal. Their proposal is from lower to the higher, but our theory is from the higher, from Viṣṇu. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). "I am the origin of everything." Now, how you can say there is development from the lower creatures? He is the origin. And Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The origin, Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything is generating. So Absolute Truth means He is the supreme life. From life, life is coming. Where is the evidence that dead stone giving birth to a man or animal? Where is the evidence?
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that in future everyone will be a demigod, that the race of man, because of mental life, will be replaced by a race of superconscious beings.
Prabhupāda: Superconscious beings, there are already existing, just like in Siddhaloka and Gandharvaloka. There are many planets.
Prabhupāda: Brain, yes.
Hayagrīva: Not..., nonmaterial.
Prabhupāda: We don't find, even the biggest mountain cannot create anything, but when the spirit soul or the human being takes a stone, he can give a form to the stone. But the mountain, although it is very big, it cannot give any particular form to the stone. It remains stone.
Hayagrīva: Unlike Plato and Aristotle, Aquinas believed that God created the universe out of nothing and He...
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: He created the universe out of nothing.
Prabhupāda: No. The universe is created by God. How you can say "out of nothing"? God is there. So before creation of the universe God was there, so you cannot say that the universe was created out of nothing.
Hayagrīva: Well, but the material universe must have been created out of nothing, because it could not have arisen out of God's spiritual nature.
Prabhupāda: His image, if God is absolute, His image is also God. If God is absolute, then His words are also God. That is absolute conception. That iw not different. So the image which we worship in the temple, if it is actually image of God, then it is as good as God. God is absolute. God says that "This earth, water..., so everything is My energy." So even if you say, "This image is made of stone," but the stone is God's energy, bhūmi, earth. So there is a regulative principle, just like a wire, a copper wire, it is carrying electricity. Although the copper wire is not electricity, but it is carrying electricity. Similarly, if you take even material-otherwise spiritually everything is God, that is another thing—but materially if we distinguish that the copper wire, it appears as copper wire, but if you touch, "Oh, there is electricity." So it is manipulated. Similarly, by the rules and regulation as enunciated by the experienced spiritual master and guru, then even if you think it is stone, it is God. The same example, you see it is electric wire, but it is electricity. Similarly, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. It is..., this has been warned: don't think that this śilā, stone. Is God. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as saw Jagannātha, immediately fainted. So we have to be trained up by the instruction of God how to realize God everywhere.
Prabhupāda: So anyway, we...
Hayagrīva: That's his grandson was, uh...
Prabhupāda: So this Thomas Huxley, how he says that the nature has rational, has knowledge? We don't find. A dead stone, maybe big mountain, but has it got rationality? How does he say that the nature has rationality? What is the basis?
Hayagrīva: Well, it's the pantheistic, it's the same pantheistic contention that God is..., God is impersonal and made the tree grow.
Prabhupāda: Maybe. "Impersonal," "personal," that we shall consider, but God is sentient. He is all-pervasive. That is accepted. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). That's all right. But God is not like the dead matter, who has no sense. We don't find the dead matter has got rationality. The rationality behind the dead matter is God.
Purports to Songs
Of course, it is not possible for ordinary man to enthuse animals to chant, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu did it actually. So even if we cannot enthuse animals, we can enthuse at least human being to this path of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting. Paśu pākhī jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare. And it is so nice that even the most stonehearted men will be melted. Pāṣāṇa vidare. Pāṣāṇa means stone, and vidare. Pāṣāṇa, even stone, will melt. It is so nice. But he regrets that, viṣaya majiyā: "Being entrapped by sense gratification..." Viṣaya majiyā, rohili bhuliyā. He's addressing himself, "My dear mind, you are entrapped in the sense gratification process and you have no attraction for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Viṣaya bhuliyā, rohili majiyā, se pade nahilo āśa: "You have no attraction for the lotus feet of Caitanya-Nityānanda. So what can I say? It is only..." Āpana karama, bhuñjāya śamana: "I can simply think of my misfortune only that Yamaraja, the superintendent of death, he is punishing me in this way, that he is not allowing me to be attracted to this movement." This is the statement of Kahoye locana-dāsa: "This is the statement of Locana dāsa Ṭhākura." (end)
So paśu pākhī jhure, pāṣāṇa vidare. Pāṣāṇa means stone. So even the stone-hearted man we also melts by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That we have experienced, seen. Pāṣāṇa vidare, śuni' jāra guṇa-gāthā. Simply by hearing the transcendental pastimes and characteristics of Lord Caitanya, even hard-hearted men, they also melted. There were many instances, Jagāi Mādhāi. Many fallen souls, they became elevated to the highest spiritual platform. Then Locana dāsa Ṭhākura says that viṣaya majiyā, rohili poriyā. "Unfortunately I am so much entrapped in these demands of the body or the senses that I have forgotten the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu." Viṣaya majiyā, rohili poriyā, se pade nahilo āśa. "I could not desire to be attached to the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya.'
| Page Title: | Stone (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=88, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 88 |